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TXBRONC
10-02-2007, 11:28 AM
While we are all scrambling to make sense of our lack of production allow me to throw a another monkey wrench into the mix.

We haven't had a really good blocking fullback since Howard Griffith was forced to retire due to injury. Granted even Howard was a feature back at one point in his career albeit it was college, but when he got the N.F.L. he became a legitimate fullback and as we all know one of the best in League during career.

I don't mind coverting tailbacks but it has left us without a true blocking back.

Anyway my point is that I think this too effects our ability to score in the red zone.

Medford Bronco
10-02-2007, 11:49 AM
While we are all scrambling to make sense of our lack of production allow me to throw a another monkey wrench into the mix.

We haven't had a really good blocking fullback since Howard Griffith was forced to retire due to injury. Granted even Howard was a feature back at one point in his career albeit it was college, but when he got the N.F.L. he became a legitimate fullback and as we all know one of the best in League during career.

I don't mind coverting tailbacks but it has left us without a true blocking back.

Anyway my point is that I think this too effects our ability to score in the red zone.

I would have kept Kyle Johnson. He was more of a true fullback than Mike Bell and Sapp

TXBRONC
10-02-2007, 11:51 AM
I would have kept Kyle Johnson. He was more of a true fullback than Mike Bell and Sapp

Yes he is a true fullback he's wasn't a very good lead blocker from what I've read in the past.

Lonestar
10-02-2007, 12:06 PM
While we are all scrambling to make sense of our lack of production allow me to throw a another monkey wrench into the mix.

We haven't had a really good blocking fullback since Howard Griffith was forced to retire due to injury. Granted even Howard was a feature back at one point in his career albeit it was college, but when he got the N.F.L. he became a legitimate fullback and as we all know one of the best in League during career.

I don't mind coverting tailbacks but it has left us without a true blocking back.

Anyway my point is that I think this too effects our ability to score in the red zone.

While you are correct Mikey's thought process about this seems to be if someone is a good but not great RB he can be made better by playing the FB position like MA and RD did.

They learned where they had to be and what else was expected from them besides just trying to run the ball. It improved both MA and RD to the point where they became good trade fodder.

I keeps more available real RBs on the team instead of a dedicated FB. Which is better Who knows?

TXBRONC
10-02-2007, 01:43 PM
It's not really a complaint, but observation. Also being to argumentative, Mike was tailback he rushed for nearly 1500 yards as rookie. The reason he was converted I'm fairly certain his being switched had to do with his natural size and Shanahan figured him to be one of his best 11 at the time.

Lonestar
10-02-2007, 01:55 PM
It's not really a complaint, but observation. Also being to argumentative, Mike was tailback he rushed for nearly 1500 yards as rookie. The reason he was converted I'm fairly certain his being switched had to do with his natural size and Shanahan figured him to be one of his best 11 at the time.

I understand.

I think the specter of having poorti$$$$ and then DAFTING tater. Placed him in a rock or hard spot. He did not really have a choice but I think after he came back and did well it became a training program that worked well for RD. I think mikey is hoping to strike TD again so to speak finding a diamond in the rough and polishing him up.

broncosinindy
10-02-2007, 03:56 PM
I definetly think we need a Fullback as well. Kyle Johnson was a good out of the back field reciever but was only thought he was a marginal run blocker. in this offense he would have been better with the screens and out of the backfield passes.

Skinny
10-02-2007, 05:26 PM
Players like 'Grif' as TD called him are far and few between.

Good blocking FB's lone enough good all-around ones in receiving and running, are hard to find.

There are just a few, like maybe 2 or 3, FB's i would like to have on this team from around the NFL.

After that the talent level drops dramatically.

Simple Jaded
10-02-2007, 07:28 PM
Here is one in the 08 draft that I like:

Owen Schmitt
FB | (6'2", 249, 4.6) | WEST VIRGINIA

Scouts Grade: 63



Strengths: Possesses prototypical NFL fullback size with good height and excellent bulk. Is well-proportioned with excellent upper and lower body strength. Possesses outstanding straight-line speed for his size. Shows a second-gear in the open field and can be a punishing runner for DB's to bring down once he gets a head of steam. He has a great feel for the passing game for a FB. Understands his routes and shows soft hands as a receiver. Can adjust to the poorly thrown ball. Displays very good awareness as a blocker both run and pass. Generally gets in good position and shows the foot quickness to consistently reach his blocks on the second-level as a run blocker. Ideal intangibles. Hard working and extremely coachable. He picks up new schemes quickly and has spent some time in spring of 2007 working at tight end. He gives a great effort in the weight room and has freakish strength. Has been mostly durable throughout his career and has shown great toughness playing through knee and ankle injuries in the past.

Weaknesses: Needs to play with better overall leverage. Enters the phone booth too high and loses some of his power as a result. Runs a bit high at times and isn't as powerful as he should be for a runner with his size and strength. Has good speed on a straight-line but doesn't display much wiggle as a runner. Won't make many defenders miss in space. He has had some fumbling issues in the past and must do a better job of protecting the football.

Overall: Schmitt originally attended Wisconsin River-Falls before transferring to West Virginia in 2004. During the past two seasons (2005-'06) he has appeared in 25 games carrying 113 times for 731 yards (6.5 average) and nine touchdowns while catching 20 passes for 167 yards (8.4 average) and one touchdown. Schmitt has deal with quad, knee, and ankle injury in the last two years but has not missed any games. Schmitt is a big, powerful fullback with outstanding straight-line speed and reliable hands for his position. He still has room to improve in terms of technique as a blocker and he'll never be the type of runner that Brian Leonard was coming out of Rutgers last season. Otherwise, Schmitt is a complete player that projects as a future starter in the NFL. Schmitt should be one of the top-two fullbacks selected in the 2008 draft, likely in the fourth-to-fifth round range.


* Player biographies are provided by Scouts Inc.


Owen Schmitt
FB, West Virginia
War Room analysis

Strengths: Has a good build, and plays with the tough, aggressive attitude not enough fullbacks do. Can bend his knees and drive up into the defender to knock him out of the hole. Always keeps after his blocks until the whistle and usually eliminates his man, even when he gets out of position. Consistently does a good job of picking up the blitz and keeping his man from pressuring the quarterback. A strong, physical inside runner who punishes tacklers, keeps his feet when hit hard and consistently gains yards after contact. Did not get a lot of chances but does catch the ball well out of the backfield. Tough to bring down once he reaches the open field.

Weaknesses: A straight-line athlete who lacks the agility and all-around flexibility to adjust and block well in space. Struggles to consistently stay over his feet and maintain blocks after initial contact. Lacks the explosive burst and playing speed to make big plays as a rusher, or as a receiver out of the backfield. Not an elusive runner; more of a one-speed guy.

Bottom line: Schmitt is the classic, tough fullback who makes his biggest plays as a physical blocker, not as a rusher or receiver. Overall, Schmitt may not have the good all-around athleticism many teams want now, but he is definitely a good enough fullback to become a solid lead blocker who consistently eliminates his man and opens holes.


Keep an eye on this kid during West Virginia games, he'll grow on ya.....

dogfish
10-02-2007, 08:35 PM
we should have gone after justin griffith in free agency!! he had experience running the ZBS in ATL, and has the kind of mentality you want at the position. . . fader fans have said that he's playing a big part in their resurgent running game. . .


oh well, too late now. . . has anyone noticed if paul smith has gotten in on any plays as a lead blocker?


edit: i think the reason we haven't gone after a guy like that is that it's really hard to find a true banger who's athletic enough to be effective on the second level, and shenanigans probably doesn't want to spend a roster space on a guy who's only going to get in on a handfull of plays per game and has limited or no value on "special" teams. . . i do notice that we've been using graham as a fullback a fair bit, which is a good way to get him involved-- i'm going to make it a point to start paying closer attention to how well he's doing back there, as the guy is obviously a terrific in-line blocker. . .

Skinny
10-02-2007, 08:55 PM
Schmitt should be one of the top-two fullbacks selected in the 2008 draft, likely in the fourth-to-fifth round range.Few and far between. . .

Detron Smith comes to mind in the 3rd round in 96'. He was groomed behind Grif for 5 years and spent most if not all of those years, as a ST contributer.

Grif was put on the reserve/retired list in 2001 due to his injury, Smith was waived the very next month due to his FB play.

Smith even came with a known rep as a solid blocking FB with good hands at A&M where he was coached by Kubs himself in 92' & 93'.

Andrew Pinnock has been grooming and backing up Lorenzo Neal in SD for his 6th season now and they re-signed him to a 5 year deal at the beginning of last season.

That's how tough it is, not to just find a really good FB, but to actually sign one in this league.


Keep an eye on this kid during West Virginia games, he'll grow on ya.....I have'nt seen him play but i will keep my eye out for him. From what i just read, i like the tough blocker bit with good straight line speed and soft hands.

We could use that.

TXBRONC
10-02-2007, 09:14 PM
Few and far between. . .

Detron Smith comes to mind in the 3rd round in 96'. He was groomed behind Grif for 5 years and spent most if not all of those years, as a ST contributer.

Grif was put on the reserve/retired list in 2001 due to his injury, Smith was waived the very next month due to his FB play.

Smith even came with a known rep as a solid blocking FB with good hands at A&M where he was coached by Kubs himself in 92' & 93'.

Andrew Pinnock has been grooming and backing up Lorenzo Neal in SD for his 6th season now and they re-signed him to a 5 year deal at the beginning of last season.

That's how tough it is, not to just find a really good FB, but to actually sign one in this league.

I have'nt seen him play but i will keep my eye out for him. From what i just read, i like the tough blocker bit with good straight line speed and soft hands.

We could use that.


I don't think finding a good blocking fullback is as hard as finding good players at other positions.

Skinny
10-02-2007, 09:36 PM
I don't think finding a good blocking fullback is as hard as finding good players at other positions.Mikey agrees with you.

But how good??

Mike Bell/Cecil Sapp good . . . . or Lorenzo Neal/Tony Richardson good??

I guess it depends on what we consider 'good' or 'good enough' i guess.

TXBRONC
10-02-2007, 09:53 PM
Mikey agrees with you.

But how good??

Mike Bell/Cecil Sapp good . . . . or Lorenzo Neal/Tony Richardson good??

I guess it depends on what we consider 'good' or 'good enough' i guess.

Hey we can find a Lorenzo Neal/Tony Richardson type fullback I'm all for it,

Watchthemiddle
10-03-2007, 12:39 AM
Our fullback is not the problem.

Our running game is still good. Henry leads the NFL in rushing even after the Jax game.

Its the total offense and execution. Where is the leadership? I would sure love to see Rod in there to lead this offense. To me, they are lacking that aspect.

sneakers
10-03-2007, 01:43 AM
Few and far between. . .

Detron Smith comes to mind in the 3rd round in 96'. He was groomed behind Grif for 5 years and spent most if not all of those years, as a ST contributer.

Grif was put on the reserve/retired list in 2001 due to his injury, Smith was waived the very next month due to his FB play.

Smith even came with a known rep as a solid blocking FB with good hands at A&M where he was coached by Kubs himself in 92' & 93'.

Andrew Pinnock has been grooming and backing up Lorenzo Neal in SD for his 6th season now and they re-signed him to a 5 year deal at the beginning of last season.

That's how tough it is, not to just find a really good FB, but to actually sign one in this league.

I have'nt seen him play but i will keep my eye out for him. From what i just read, i like the tough blocker bit with good straight line speed and soft hands.

We could use that.

I remember Detron Smith...wasn't he out of Texas A&M?

I don't understand why there are so few good fullbacks to pick from in the draft/FA...maybe it is because so few teams are using fullbacks now a days in college and in the NFL, potential fullbacks don't have time to master their craft.

TXBRONC
10-03-2007, 07:08 AM
Our fullback is not the problem.

Our running game is still good. Henry leads the NFL in rushing even after the Jax game.

Its the total offense and execution. Where is the leadership? I would sure love to see Rod in there to lead this offense. To me, they are lacking that aspect.

The leadership isn't the problem the way I see it. If it was I think we might be struggling to move the ball. And my contention is that a lack of solid fullback might be part of the problem in the red zone.

BroncoAV06
10-03-2007, 02:03 PM
Rod Smith, I love him as much as the next guy but how is his leadership different on the field different from what he can be doing now from the sideline? I don't think that is what is going to get the offense going magicly! It is all there, Cutler is still deveolping but what I really think it comes down to is a big play that could spark this team. Run goes 70 for a TD, play action pass for a TD, INT returned for a TD, heck a speacial teams return! :shocked:
I think it would be something that would really jump start the team and help get the momentum rolling!

As far as the FB situation, I don't think that would solve problems in the redzone either. Look at the Chargers this year with Neal, one of the best FB in the league but they want him off the field now in run situations. Teams are able to regonize run situations and LT has not been productive that productive this year. Not saying it wouldn't help in some situations but Ijust don't think that it is as big as some make it out to be.

Lonestar
10-03-2007, 06:03 PM
The leadership isn't the problem the way I see it. If it was I think we might be struggling to move the ball. And my contention is that a lack of solid fullback might be part of the problem in the red zone.


I think I'd rather have a a tackle eligible or TE on the field that puts alot more beef at the LOS than a FB that is 30-60 pounds less in bulk.

Lonestar
10-03-2007, 06:04 PM
Rod Smith, I love him as much as the next guy but how is his leadership different on the field different from what he can be doing now from the sideline? I don't think that is what is going to get the offense going magicly! It is all there, Cutler is still deveolping but what I really think it comes down to is a big play that could spark this team. Run goes 70 for a TD, play action pass for a TD, INT returned for a TD, heck a speacial teams return! :shocked:
I think it would be something that would really jump start the team and help get the momentum rolling!

As far as the FB situation, I don't think that would solve problems in the redzone either. Look at the Chargers this year with Neal, one of the best FB in the league but they want him off the field now in run situations. Teams are able to regonize run situations and LT has not been productive that productive this year. Not saying it wouldn't help in some situations but Ijust don't think that it is as big as some make it out to be.

Champ did it two years ago in the first SAN game I think it was, taking back a Pick for 90 some odd yards.

Medford Bronco
10-03-2007, 06:13 PM
Champ did it two years ago in the first SAN game I think it was, taking back a Pick for 90 some odd yards.

Actually I think it was a pick for about 30 yards or so

Drew Brees threw a Rex Grossman like pick when SD was up 14-3
Then Ron Dayne of all people helped us win this game

KCL
10-03-2007, 06:26 PM
Tony Richardson was one of the best FB in the NFL...He was an
excellent blocker. And like an idiot...the Chiefs let him go.

Then the Vikings picked him up and last season he broke his hand
and was out for a good part of the season.I am not even sure if he
is playing this season.

I wish we had him back.

Medford Bronco
10-03-2007, 06:27 PM
Tony Richardson was one of the best FB in the NFL...He was an
excellent blocker. And like an idiot...the Chiefs let him go.

Then the Vikings picked him up and last season he broke his hand
and was out for a good part of the season.I am not even sure if he
is playing this season.

I wish we had him back.


Can he play defensive line then I would take him for the Broncos :laugh:

KCL your team is fine and will be 3-2 after they beat Jax at Home

Just check out Meds upsets of the week ;)

KCL
10-03-2007, 06:34 PM
Can he play defensive line then I would take him for the Broncos :laugh:

KCL your team is fine and will be 3-2 after they beat Jax at Home

Just check out Meds upsets of the week ;)

I already been there my friend and I do hope you are right!
If the right plays are called and the D plays like it did last week
I will be happy!

Huard has done a good job passing and he had some pretty good
pass protection last week.

Winning on the road against an division rival was a big plus...IMO.

And D Bowe...what a receiver he has turned out to be so far.

Even my man Tony has been doing great and tied SS's record.

Medford Bronco
10-03-2007, 06:39 PM
I already been there my friend and I do hope you are right!
If the right plays are called and the D plays like it did last week
I will be happy!

Huard has done a good job passing and he had some pretty good
pass protection last week.

Winning on the road against an division rival was a big plus...IMO.

And D Bowe...what a receiver he has turned out to be so far.

Even my man Tony has been doing great and tied SS's record.

KC hardly ever loses at home, they should not be an underdog

lifetime Huard is 8-0 at home, probably 5 of those games are with KC, so streaking is good :shocked::laugh:

I really like your defense, even in your losses they played well.
Almost like when Shotty was there back in the day.

Remeber LJ missed all of camp and just now is getting his legs.

I say KC wins 21-17 and it could be even more if you play a turnover free game.

now on topic, is Reggie Rivers available :laugh:

KCL
10-03-2007, 06:53 PM
KC hardly ever loses at home, they should not be an underdog

lifetime Huard is 8-0 at home, probably 5 of those games are with KC, so streaking is good :shocked::laugh:

I really like your defense, even in your losses they played well.
Almost like when Shotty was there back in the day.

Remeber LJ missed all of camp and just now is getting his legs.

I say KC wins 21-17 and it could be even more if you play a turnover free game.

now on topic, is Reggie Rivers available :laugh:

I agree that D is coming together.Good to have Jared Allen back and Jarred
Page made an excellent play on the pass in the EZ last week. Now if that
secondary could step it up a notch!;)

Lonestar
10-03-2007, 08:34 PM
Actually I think it was a pick for about 30 yards or so

Drew Brees threw a Rex Grossman like pick when SD was up 14-3
Then Ron Dayne of all people helped us win this game

I was thinking of this game

September 18, 2005
1-10-SD 23 (14:56) D.Brees pass intended for K.McCardell INTERCEPTED by C.Bailey at SD 25. C.Bailey for 25 yards, TOUCHDOWN.


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=28552&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2005&week=REG2

It more or less turned the season around. Had just lost the first game of the season and this game was going south until that play.

I had remembered it being a longer pass.

lex
10-03-2007, 10:30 PM
Here is one in the 08 draft that I like:

Owen Schmitt
FB | (6'2", 249, 4.6) | WEST VIRGINIA

Scouts Grade: 63



Strengths: Possesses prototypical NFL fullback size with good height and excellent bulk. Is well-proportioned with excellent upper and lower body strength. Possesses outstanding straight-line speed for his size. Shows a second-gear in the open field and can be a punishing runner for DB's to bring down once he gets a head of steam. He has a great feel for the passing game for a FB. Understands his routes and shows soft hands as a receiver. Can adjust to the poorly thrown ball. Displays very good awareness as a blocker both run and pass. Generally gets in good position and shows the foot quickness to consistently reach his blocks on the second-level as a run blocker. Ideal intangibles. Hard working and extremely coachable. He picks up new schemes quickly and has spent some time in spring of 2007 working at tight end. He gives a great effort in the weight room and has freakish strength. Has been mostly durable throughout his career and has shown great toughness playing through knee and ankle injuries in the past.

Weaknesses: Needs to play with better overall leverage. Enters the phone booth too high and loses some of his power as a result. Runs a bit high at times and isn't as powerful as he should be for a runner with his size and strength. Has good speed on a straight-line but doesn't display much wiggle as a runner. Won't make many defenders miss in space. He has had some fumbling issues in the past and must do a better job of protecting the football.

Overall: Schmitt originally attended Wisconsin River-Falls before transferring to West Virginia in 2004. During the past two seasons (2005-'06) he has appeared in 25 games carrying 113 times for 731 yards (6.5 average) and nine touchdowns while catching 20 passes for 167 yards (8.4 average) and one touchdown. Schmitt has deal with quad, knee, and ankle injury in the last two years but has not missed any games. Schmitt is a big, powerful fullback with outstanding straight-line speed and reliable hands for his position. He still has room to improve in terms of technique as a blocker and he'll never be the type of runner that Brian Leonard was coming out of Rutgers last season. Otherwise, Schmitt is a complete player that projects as a future starter in the NFL. Schmitt should be one of the top-two fullbacks selected in the 2008 draft, likely in the fourth-to-fifth round range.


* Player biographies are provided by Scouts Inc.


Owen Schmitt
FB, West Virginia
War Room analysis

Strengths: Has a good build, and plays with the tough, aggressive attitude not enough fullbacks do. Can bend his knees and drive up into the defender to knock him out of the hole. Always keeps after his blocks until the whistle and usually eliminates his man, even when he gets out of position. Consistently does a good job of picking up the blitz and keeping his man from pressuring the quarterback. A strong, physical inside runner who punishes tacklers, keeps his feet when hit hard and consistently gains yards after contact. Did not get a lot of chances but does catch the ball well out of the backfield. Tough to bring down once he reaches the open field.

Weaknesses: A straight-line athlete who lacks the agility and all-around flexibility to adjust and block well in space. Struggles to consistently stay over his feet and maintain blocks after initial contact. Lacks the explosive burst and playing speed to make big plays as a rusher, or as a receiver out of the backfield. Not an elusive runner; more of a one-speed guy.

Bottom line: Schmitt is the classic, tough fullback who makes his biggest plays as a physical blocker, not as a rusher or receiver. Overall, Schmitt may not have the good all-around athleticism many teams want now, but he is definitely a good enough fullback to become a solid lead blocker who consistently eliminates his man and opens holes.


Keep an eye on this kid during West Virginia games, he'll grow on ya.....

Carl Stewart is another option.

TXBRONC
10-03-2007, 10:36 PM
I think I'd rather have a a tackle eligible or TE on the field that puts alot more beef at the LOS than a FB that is 30-60 pounds less in bulk.


A lot maybe even most true fullbacks these days hover around 240lbs-250lbs range which for the most part puts them on par with linebackers.

Skinny
10-27-2007, 02:03 PM
Here is one in the 08 draft that I like:

Owen Schmitt
FB | (6'2", 249, 4.6) | WEST VIRGINIA

Scouts Grade: 63

Strengths: Possesses prototypical NFL fullback size with good height and excellent bulk. Is well-proportioned with excellent upper and lower body strength. Possesses outstanding straight-line speed for his size. Shows a second-gear in the open field and can be a punishing runner for DB's to bring down once he gets a head of steam. He has a great feel for the passing game for a FB. Understands his routes and shows soft hands as a receiver. Can adjust to the poorly thrown ball. Displays very good awareness as a blocker both run and pass. Generally gets in good position and shows the foot quickness to consistently reach his blocks on the second-level as a run blocker. Ideal intangibles. Hard working and extremely coachable. He picks up new schemes quickly and has spent some time in spring of 2007 working at tight end. He gives a great effort in the weight room and has freakish strength. Has been mostly durable throughout his career and has shown great toughness playing through knee and ankle injuries in the past.

Weaknesses: Needs to play with better overall leverage. Enters the phone booth too high and loses some of his power as a result. Runs a bit high at times and isn't as powerful as he should be for a runner with his size and strength. Has good speed on a straight-line but doesn't display much wiggle as a runner. Won't make many defenders miss in space. He has had some fumbling issues in the past and must do a better job of protecting the football.

Overall: Schmitt originally attended Wisconsin River-Falls before transferring to West Virginia in 2004. During the past two seasons (2005-'06) he has appeared in 25 games carrying 113 times for 731 yards (6.5 average) and nine touchdowns while catching 20 passes for 167 yards (8.4 average) and one touchdown. Schmitt has deal with quad, knee, and ankle injury in the last two years but has not missed any games. Schmitt is a big, powerful fullback with outstanding straight-line speed and reliable hands for his position. He still has room to improve in terms of technique as a blocker and he'll never be the type of runner that Brian Leonard was coming out of Rutgers last season. Otherwise, Schmitt is a complete player that projects as a future starter in the NFL. Schmitt should be one of the top-two fullbacks selected in the 2008 draft, likely in the fourth-to-fifth round range.

* Player biographies are provided by Scouts Inc.

Owen Schmitt
FB, West Virginia
War Room analysis

Strengths: Has a good build, and plays with the tough, aggressive attitude not enough fullbacks do. Can bend his knees and drive up into the defender to knock him out of the hole. Always keeps after his blocks until the whistle and usually eliminates his man, even when he gets out of position. Consistently does a good job of picking up the blitz and keeping his man from pressuring the quarterback. A strong, physical inside runner who punishes tacklers, keeps his feet when hit hard and consistently gains yards after contact. Did not get a lot of chances but does catch the ball well out of the backfield. Tough to bring down once he reaches the open field.

Weaknesses: A straight-line athlete who lacks the agility and all-around flexibility to adjust and block well in space. Struggles to consistently stay over his feet and maintain blocks after initial contact. Lacks the explosive burst and playing speed to make big plays as a rusher, or as a receiver out of the backfield. Not an elusive runner; more of a one-speed guy.

Bottom line: Schmitt is the classic, tough fullback who makes his biggest plays as a physical blocker, not as a rusher or receiver. Overall, Schmitt may not have the good all-around athleticism many teams want now, but he is definitely a good enough fullback to become a solid lead blocker who consistently eliminates his man and opens holes.


Keep an eye on this kid during West Virginia games, he'll grow on ya.....I thought i remembered reading about a very good college FB prospect at WV somewhere. . . It did'nt take long for him to grow on me. . . Watching the Rutgers/WV game and he's very impressive. He's being listed at a very athletic and phyiscal 260lbs now.

lex
10-27-2007, 02:20 PM
I agree. Our situation at FB is yet another example of getting by. Another guy who might be decent is Carl Stewart of Auburn. A few other guys worth considering might be Brandon McAnderson or Peyton Hillis.

TXBRONC
10-27-2007, 02:24 PM
I thought i remembered reading about a very good college FB prospect at WV somewhere. . . It did'nt take long for him to grow on me. . . Watching the Rutgers/WV game and he's very impressive. He's being listed at a very athletic and phyiscal 260lbs now.

Thanks my good man for providing the bio on this kid. :beer:

Lonestar
10-27-2007, 05:20 PM
A lot maybe even most true fullbacks these days hover around 240lbs-250lbs range which for the most part puts them on par with linebackers.

I said..
Originally Posted by Jrwiz
I think I'd rather have a a tackle eligible or TE on the field that puts alot more beef at the LOS than a FB that is 30-60 pounds less in bulk.

When you consider that most Oline guys and Tackles in particular are in the the 290-315 range and since:

Bell is listed at 225, sapp at 229 and young? While listed on the depth chart is not on the roster.

Graham at 259, Scheffelr @ 250

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=5917

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=777


http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=7066

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=5908


30 to 60 pounds as I said makes a huge difference in throwing and sustaining blocks.

TXBRONC
10-27-2007, 05:43 PM
I said..
Originally Posted by Jrwiz
I think I'd rather have a a tackle eligible or TE on the field that puts alot more beef at the LOS than a FB that is 30-60 pounds less in bulk.

When you consider that most Oline guys and Tackles in particular are in the the 290-315 range and since:

Bell is listed at 225, sapp at 229 and young? While listed on the depth chart is not on the roster.

Graham at 259, Scheffelr @ 250

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=5917

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=777


http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=7066

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=5908


30 to 60 pounds as I said makes a huge difference in throwing and sustaining blocks.

I understood what you said.

WAB
10-27-2007, 05:54 PM
Can anyone point out a team that still uses a "true" fullback for more than a few short yardage plays? I cannot think of one off the top of my head.

Mack Strong was the guy that set off all this "oh the true fullback isn't dead" talk, but his use on passing downs and in pass protection (situations other than power-run, obviously) was way more a necessity than anything.

Dan Kreider is now getting phased out in Pittsburgh...they're going with Carey Davis who's more of an offensive fullback.

Just looking at Denver, how can you say that a true blocking fullback is needed and/or will fit here when a great portion of the offense is play-action?

TXBRONC
10-27-2007, 05:58 PM
Can anyone point out a team that still uses a "true" fullback for more than a few short yardage plays? I cannot think of one off the top of my head.

Mack Strong was the guy that set off all this "oh the true fullback isn't dead" talk, but his use on passing downs and in pass protection (situations other than power-run, obviously) was way more a necessity than anything.

Dan Kreider is now getting phased out in Pittsburgh...they're going with Carey Davis who's more of an offensive fullback.

Just looking at Denver, how can you say that a true blocking fullback is needed and/or will fit here when a great portion of the offense is play-action?


Right off the top of my head the Bengals and the Chargers have a true fullback in their starting line ups.

WAB
10-27-2007, 07:20 PM
Right off the top of my head the Bengals and the Chargers have a true fullback in their starting line ups.

And those two teams were 1 and 2 in 2 RB sets last year. I'd also give you Mike Karney.

Guys like Ovie Mughelli and Ahmard Hall, while they can be described as blocking backs, aren't on the field nearly as much as those above.

I still don't see a fit here in Denver. We've been using West Coast-types for the last however-many years...there's a definite trend there.

Simple Jaded
10-27-2007, 07:28 PM
Right off the top of my head the Bengals and the Chargers have a true fullback in their starting line ups.

Actually the Broncos use Sapp like a true FB, he's just tiny in comparison (Much like their o-lineman).

Washington Redskins with Brad Sellers is another team with a true FB.

A "true fullback" today is no different than a 3wr set...An offensive set rather than a "system".

And any team could use a FB some of the time. (Except the Urban Meyers of the world with their JUNK system)...

lex
10-27-2007, 07:29 PM
And those two teams were 1 and 2 in 2 RB sets last year. I'd also give you Mike Karney.

Guys like Ovie Mughelli and Ahmard Hall, while they can be described as blocking backs, aren't on the field nearly as much as those above.

I still don't see a fit here in Denver. We've been using West Coast-types for the last however-many years...there's a definite trend there.

But not many WCO teams have emphasized the run like Denver...plus since we use smaller linemen, it kind of helps having a more classic fullback to offset that. Theres nothing saying that because we're a WCO we have to be finesse with every fiber of our being.

WAB
10-27-2007, 07:35 PM
Right.

Sellers would be an example of a "set", as you say. Washington runs a lot of singleback.

The teams he pointed out, though, and what I think he's implying altogether, use their FB's quite a bit.

Simple Jaded
10-27-2007, 07:42 PM
But not many WCO teams have emphasized the run like Denver...plus since we use smaller linemen, it kind of helps having a more classic fullback to offset that. Theres nothing saying that because we're a WCO we have to be finesse with every fiber of our being.


Plus, imo, the "true" WCO is dying. And FB, it's a good place to put actual/real size for the position on the roster, like you said: To offset the TE's playing offensive lineman for the Broncos....

WAB
10-27-2007, 07:42 PM
But not many WCO teams have emphasized the run like Denver...plus since we use smaller linemen, it kind of helps having a more classic fullback to offset that. Theres nothing saying that because we're a WCO we have to be finesse with every fiber of our being.

Like I said, there's a trend when you look back at our FB's since 2000 (Griffith's last year).

It's been Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, Cecil Sapp, and Kyle Johnson.

I don't have the slightest recollection of what type of player Griffith was, but from looking at his stats one can assume that he could definitely catch the ball.

Simple Jaded
10-27-2007, 07:45 PM
Right.

Sellers would be an example of a "set", as you say. Washington runs a lot of singleback.

The teams he pointed out, though, and what I think he's implying altogether, use their FB's quite a bit.


Exactly!

And the Broncos (Or any team) could use a classic FB like those teams....Just like anything else in the NFL....Specialization.

FB's can used on ST's a lot too....

TXBRONC
10-27-2007, 08:18 PM
Actually the Broncos use Sapp like a true FB, he's just tiny in comparison (Much like their o-lineman).

Washington Redskins with Brad Sellers is another team with a true FB.

A "true fullback" today is no different than a 3wr set...An offensive set rather than a "system".

And any team could use a FB some of the time. (Except the Urban Meyers of the world with their JUNK system)...


Meyer's offensive will only work at the college level.

broncosinindy
10-29-2007, 08:21 AM
While we are all scrambling to make sense of our lack of production allow me to throw a another monkey wrench into the mix.

We haven't had a really good blocking fullback since Howard Griffith was forced to retire due to injury. Granted even Howard was a feature back at one point in his career albeit it was college, but when he got the N.F.L. he became a legitimate fullback and as we all know one of the best in League during career.

I don't mind coverting tailbacks but it has left us without a true blocking back.

Anyway my point is that I think this too effects our ability to score in the red zone.
I was really hoping we would've picked up one last draft. but with the lack of picks we skipped on it. Any free agents catching anyones eye.

TXBRONC
10-29-2007, 11:31 AM
I was really hoping we would've picked up one last draft. but with the lack of picks we skipped on it. Any free agents catching anyones eye.

I think we had enough picks originally but Shanahan chose to spend them in such away that less in number but higher in draft quality.

AFGAHNI_BATTLE_DONKEY
10-29-2007, 04:50 PM
if only we had thump belton

Retired_Member_001
10-29-2007, 04:56 PM
if only we had thump belton

Just because someone has a cool name it doesn't make them a good football player.

I thought we should have gone for Nate Iloa in the draft. Iloa is currently a FA so he's still an option.

TXBRONC
10-29-2007, 05:10 PM
Just because someone has a cool name it doesn't make them a good football player.

I thought we should have gone for Nate Iloa in the draft. Iloa is currently a FA so he's still an option.

There is problem with signing this guy now. At this point in the season I don't think he would be of much use because having to learn the play book.

WAB
10-29-2007, 05:30 PM
Just because someone has a cool name it doesn't make them a good football player.

I thought we should have gone for Nate Iloa in the draft. Iloa is currently a FA so he's still an option.

Iloa isn't a fullback.