Kiszla: Hey, Broncos fans — Kyle Orton is glad coach is making QB decision

[T.K.O.]

Kiszla: Hey, Broncos fans — Kyle Orton is glad coach is making QB decision
By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Posted: 08/09/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT

Broncos QB Kyle Orton (Denver Post file photo)Hey, Broncomaniacs. Did you get the message? Kyle Orton is glad you aren't picking the team's starting quarterback.

"My last goal playing quarterback is to win over the fans," Orton said Monday. "That's my last goal."

Orton is a solid NFL quarterback. He makes for a lousy politician, though. I love his spunk. But telling fans in a sports-crazy town they don't count for much? Not a wise move.

In this quarterback competition, touchdown passes and interceptions won't be all that's thrown. There's going to be some mudslinging.

Knowing the people want Tim Tebow, Orton must trust and pray the race for the No. 1 quarterback in Denver will be a football competition rather than a popularity contest.


"My first goal is to win over my teammates, to win over my coaches, and I think I'm well on my way to doing that," said Orton, sounding as defiantly confident as ever in the belief he is the man to lead the Denver offense.

In a city that argued the quality of Halloween candy distributed to trick-or-treaters by a young John Elway back in the day, there's some history of over-the-top debates about the local NFL quarterback.:laugh:

http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_18642903

i think his "first goal" should be to "win games" but other than that he's got a point;)

[Northman]

Just like the fans Orton is entitled to his opinion. He doesnt care for the fans, some dont care for him. But, at the end of the day if he doesnt play well and we arent winning he's going to be hearing about it. Get your liquor ready Kyle. lol

[Buff]

On one hand, I like the fact that Kyle Orton has confidence in his own abilities and isn't going to be affected by outsiders. On the other hand, it would be nice to hear him acknowledge his own shortcomings one time. Like, there is a reason the entire fan base is divided, your play hasn't been beyond reproach.

[TXBRONC]

Just like the fans Orton is entitled to his opinion. He doesnt care for the fans, some dont care for him. But, at the end of the day if he doesnt play well and we arent winning he's going to be hearing about it. Get your liquor ready Kyle. lol

I hear he owns stock in Jack Daniels if that's true he's pretty well set. :shots:

[Lonestar]

Yep he needed to win all of those games by himself.

He is a good NFL QB. He is confident of his skills.

Win over the team, coaches and then let his play show the fans the past two loser teams did nothing to help him.

He is going to have a contract year folks and then he will be gone. We will be poorer because of that.

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[Northman]

Yep he needed to win all of those games by himself.

He is a good NFL QB. He is confident of his skills.

Win over the team, coaches and then let his play show the fans the past two loser teams did nothing to help him.

He is going to have a contract year folks and then he will be gone. We will be poorer because of that.

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He didnt need to win the games by himself, just show he could complete 3rd downs and be a playmaker when it mattered. Big difference.

[BigDaddyBronco]

He just needs to be a little clutch and quit folding when things get tough.

[Lonestar]

He just needs to be a little clutch and quit folding when things get tough.

Yep I'm sure it was all his fault. The rest of the TEAM had zero to do with it.

I'm nit giving him a pass but if the OL was a sieve, or not making holes, RBs can't hit the hole or receivers drop passes not so sure this are all on Ortons shoulders.

Or for that matter bad play calling.

I love how fans only blame the QB when they have NO clue which of the plays were called and if the correct routes were run on time.

Yep all Ortons fault. Every time.

I suspect lots will be pissed this year when things improve. Just because Orton is the qb.

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[silkamilkamonico]

What Halloween candy did John Elway give out back in the day?

[MileHighCrew]

I care about Orton about as much as he cares about the fans, not at all. Ihope he is great, I really do and I hope he leads this teams to a championship, but I know I could never fully back him. Like LeBron James, he just seems like a jerk.

[spikerman]

I don't think anybody is claiming that the losses were all Orton's fault, but he has to assume some responsibility. It's not like the Orton led offense was scoring 28-35 points per game and they were still losing, ala Dan Marino in the 80's.

I don't really have anything against Orton - I just don't think playing him this year benefits the Broncos as they look to the future. I do notice that a lot of the "pro-Orton" crowd is quick to point out that Orton didn't lose those games by himself (which is true), but they also skip over the fact that he didn't win those games in Chicago by himself either.

[SOCALORADO.]

what halloween candy did john elway give out back in the day?

dots

[Lancane]

Yep he needed to win all of those games by himself.

He is a good NFL QB. He is confident of his skills.

Win over the team, coaches and then let his play show the fans the past two loser teams did nothing to help him.

He is going to have a contract year folks and then he will be gone. We will be poorer because of that.

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Opinionative and one that is not widely shared... As I stated in a different thread, the quarterback drama is getting rather old, it's time for someone who has at least the majority behind them. You say we'll be poorer, I believe will be richer because I don't think we'll accept mediocrity any longer, not even from the likes of Tebow.

[Dzone]

dots

LOL>..oh wow...Dang, lets hope hes not quite as cheap now as he was then...He also caught crap for leaving lousy tips in restaurants...:beer:

As for Orton, hes a surly *******. No personality and zero charisma. If he plays good and wins, thats all that matters and he will win the fans...If he sucks, hes going to get booed for being a jerk. And thats how it should be
:salute:

[Ravage!!!]

I, too, am glad that the fans are not making the decisions for the team.

[BroncoStud]

The fans will let him know what they think. And if the Broncos don't move Orton eventually the fans will let Bowlen know what they think, just like last year. Elway isn't going to put up with this shit from Orton, Orton knows the Broncos tried their best to trade him, he knows he only has a year left here, from an organization that is trying to reconnect with their fans having the "starting" QB tell the media that the fans don't matter, well, I guess we will see how that works out for him.

Plus, why in the heck is he so confident? Is there another Kyle Orton in the NFL? Because the one I've been watching has been average AT BEST.

[Nomad]

Yep, Cane! With Orton talking like that, he's on an even shorter leash with fans. He better produce wins.

The difference between Orton and Tebow is......Orton proves his critics right and Tebow has proven his critics wrong.

[Ravage!!!]

The difference between Orton and Tebow is......Orton proves his critics right and Tebow has proven his critics wrong.

Not yet he hasn't.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Yep I'm sure it was all his fault. The rest of the TEAM had zero to do with it.

I'm nit giving him a pass but if the OL was a sieve, or not making holes, RBs can't hit the hole or receivers drop passes not so sure this are all on Ortons shoulders.

Or for that matter bad play calling.

I love how fans only blame the QB when they have NO clue which of the plays were called and if the correct routes were run on time.

Yep all Ortons fault. Every time.

I suspect lots will be pissed this year when things improve. Just because Orton is the qb.
Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums[/i][/size]

I heard they are calling the rookie Franklin... "The Swinging Door"...
and that our O-line is still not looking very good..
and that whoever QB's is gonna be running for his life.

Vegas odds are that we get 5.5 wins. ( most advise picking the under)

Dont kid yourself...

This team is NOT very good...
and whoever QB's this team is NOT gonna have a great year.

We are rebuilding... and it aint gonna look pretty...

I doubt that Orton is gonna piss off his detractors because of his incredible play.

It is gonna simply be another half season of Kyle...
and once the season is in the tank..
and we gave it our best shot...
and the vets accept that NOW we have to develop the kid...
it will be time to rebuild at QB as well.

Buh Bye, Mr Kyle....

Have fun riding the bench in the 2nd half of 2011 on your way to free agency...

Tebow may not be the answer... but it sure aint Orton...
and we will find out soon enough.

[topscribe]

On one hand, I like the fact that Kyle Orton has confidence in his own abilities and isn't going to be affected by outsiders. On the other hand, it would be nice to hear him acknowledge his own shortcomings one time. Like, there is a reason the entire fan base is divided, your play hasn't been beyond reproach.

Why would it be necessary to stand before a microphone and go down a
detailed list on all the stuff he needs to work on? I'm sure Kyle has done that
thoroughly with his coaches - why would he have to do that with the fans
What could the fans do to help him in that?

I have heard him say, "We have to get better. I have to get better; we all have
to get better." I believe that should be sufficient for the fans. As I said, details
belong with the coaches . . .

-----

[PAINTERDAVE]

The fans will let him know what they think. And if the Broncos don't move Orton eventually the fans will let Bowlen know what they think, just like last year. Elway isn't going to put up with this shit from Orton, Orton knows the Broncos tried their best to trade him, he knows he only has a year left here, from an organization that is trying to reconnect with their fans having the "starting" QB tell the media that the fans don't matter, well, I guess we will see how that works out for him.

Plus, why in the heck is he so confident? Is there another Kyle Orton in the NFL? Because the one I've been watching has been average AT BEST.


Orton REQUESTED to be traded.

Noboday wnated him.

We got stuck.

[TXBRONC]

Opinionative and one that is not widely shared... As I stated in a different thread, the quarterback drama is getting rather old, it's time for someone who has at least the majority behind them. You say we'll be poorer, I believe will be richer because I don't think we'll accept mediocrity any longer, not even from the likes of Tebow.

While Orton is still here the book on McDaniels remains open. To me that's souring thought.

[Ravage!!!]

Orton REQUESTED to be traded.

Noboday wnated him.

We got stuck.

Uh oh.. don't remind Wiz that Orton requested a trade. Then he would have to justify it and defend it.... while still hating other QBs for it.

[Northman]

I don't think anybody is claiming that the losses were all Orton's fault, but he has to assume some responsibility. It's not like the Orton led offense was scoring 28-35 points per game and they were still losing, ala Dan Marino in the 80's.

I don't really have anything against Orton - I just don't think playing him this year benefits the Broncos as they look to the future. I do notice that a lot of the "pro-Orton" crowd is quick to point out that Orton didn't lose those games by himself (which is true), but they also skip over the fact that he didn't win those games in Chicago by himself either.

All agreed. But apparently Lonestar thinks Orton has not faults. :lol:

[arapaho2]

Yep I'm sure it was all his fault. The rest of the TEAM had zero to do with it.

I'm nit giving him a pass but if the OL was a sieve, or not making holes, RBs can't hit the hole or receivers drop passes not so sure this are all on Ortons shoulders.

Or for that matter bad play calling.

I love how fans only blame the QB when they have NO clue which of the plays were called and if the correct routes were run on time.

Yep all Ortons fault. Every time.

I suspect lots will be pissed this year when things improve. Just because Orton is the qb.

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arent those all issues brought on by your chosen savior josh mcdanials:rolleyes:


i am amazed at your level of hypocracy considering when cutler was here...your view was a loss was totaly his fault

[Northman]

arent those all issues brought on by your chosen savior josh mcdanials:rolleyes:


i am amazed at your level of hypocracy considering when cutler was here...your view was a loss was totaly his fault

No shit right? :lol:

[NightTerror218]

just more fuel to the fire....Orton will make sure the fan NEVER like him.....

[topscribe]

arent those all issues brought on by your chosen savior josh mcdanials:rolleyes:


i am amazed at your level of hypocracy considering when cutler was here...your view was a loss was totaly his fault

Yes hypocrisy abounds, doesn't it? For instance, those Orton-haters continually
like to point at "Orton's" 3-10 record last year, ignoring the last-place defense,
but when someone refers to his 21-12 record before coming here, they say that
was because of defense. And this is just one example.

Yes, hypocrisy abounds . . . :coffee:

-----

[Northman]

Yes hypocrisy abounds, doesn't it? For instance, those Orton-haters continually
like to point at "Orton's" 3-10 record last year, ignoring the last-place defense,
but when someone refers to his 21-12 record before coming here, they say that
was because of defense. And this is just one example.

Yes, hypocrisy abounds . . . :coffee:

-----

Yes, but Orton was benched in both cases. If it was really Orton's doing he would of never been benched in favor of Grossman.

[NightTerror218]

Yes hypocrisy abounds, doesn't it? For instance, those Orton-haters continually
like to point at "Orton's" 3-10 record last year, ignoring the last-place defense,
but when someone refers to his 21-12 record before coming here, they say that
was because of defense. And this is just one example.

Yes, hypocrisy abounds . . . :coffee:

-----

TOP you may be too old, but did you ever play sports, football for one? In football if your offense can not produce and are play defense the whole time.....you wear down. Our defense was not great and it was on the field too much. 3 and outs do not help. If you look at time of possession for our big loss games....we were on offense for 1/3 of game and on defense for 2/3. Our defense was worn out.

[Buff]

Why would it be necessary to stand before a microphone and go down a
detailed list on all the stuff he needs to work on? I'm sure Kyle has done that
thoroughly with his coaches - why would he have to do that with the fans
What could the fans do to help him in that?

I have heard him say, "We have to get better. I have to get better; we all have
to get better." I believe that should be sufficient for the fans. As I said, details
belong with the coaches . . .

-----

I just think his attitude comes off as though he can't believe there is any QB controversy and that his play speaks for itself... Well, his play does tell a story, and it's not of a top flight NFL QB. There are a lot of holes in his game. I think he could benefit from being more gracious and humble.

[topscribe]

I just think his attitude comes off as though he can't believe there is any QB controversy and that his play speaks for itself... Well, his play does tell a story, and it's not of a top flight NFL QB. There are a lot of holes in his game. I think he could benefit from being more gracious and humble.

Ordinarily, Buff, I think I would agree with you. Even I am disenchanted by
the failures in the RZ and on 3rd downs (although I can see a lot of variables
there).

But this seething hatred is something like I have never seen in all my 50+ years
of football. I tried to analyze it in another thread - did you happen to see it?

At this point, if Kyle has some bitterness, I cannot blame him. He should not
have to take all the sins of the team upon himself, but I'm sure he feels he has.

Perhaps Kyle should be given a complimentary copy of How to Win Friends and
Influence People. He may just be a bit too honest for his own good.

-----

[Buff]

Ordinarily, Buff, I think I would agree with you. Even I am disenchanted by
the failures in the RZ and on 3rd downs (although I can see a lot of variables
there).

But this seething hatred is something like I have never seen in all my 50+ years
of football. I tried to analyze it in another thread - did you happen to see it?

At this point, if Kyle has some bitterness, I cannot blame him. He should not
have to take all the sins of the team upon himself, but I'm sure he feels he has.

Perhaps Kyle should be given a complimentary copy of How to Win Friends and
Influence People. He may just be a bit too honest for his own good.

-----

That's where I disagree... He ought to be thankful to have a shot at the starting job and he should be trying to ingratiate himself to the fans. This whole "I haven't been treated fairly" chip on his shoulder is misplaced IMO.

Again, I don't hate KO, but he does make it tough for us to root for him.

[NightTerror218]

Ordinarily, Buff, I think I would agree with you. Even I am disenchanted by
the failures in the RZ and on 3rd downs (although I can see a lot of variables
there).

But this seething hatred is something like I have never seen in all my 50+ years
of football. I tried to analyze it in another thread - did you happen to see it?

At this point, if Kyle has some bitterness, I cannot blame him. He should not
have to take all the sins of the team upon himself, but I'm sure he feels he has.

Perhaps Kyle should be given a complimentary copy of How to Win Friends and
Influence People. He may just be a bit too honest for his own good.

-----


We know you are old as dirt...50+ yrs blah blah.......but 4th quarts, RZ, and 3rd down are not something you can coach. That is something in your head. If you can not complete in the situations you can be coached too if you already have the QB "tools".

Edit: So the offense stalling out and making defense play more often is not his problem?

[vandammage13]

Perhaps Kyle should be given a complimentary copy of How to Win Friends and
Influence People. He may just be a bit too honest for his own good.

-----

Kyle's got a lot of Larry David in him...from the people skills all the way down to the athletic ability.

[Mike]

He just needs to be a little clutch and quit folding when things get tough.

Not taking a sack when a stiff wind blows would be a big plus too.

[NightTerror218]

Not taking a sack when a stiff wind blows would be a big plus too.

Like folding when Ray Lewis sneezed in his direction 2 yrs in a row....

[topscribe]

That's where I disagree... He ought to be thankful to have a shot at the starting job and he should be trying to ingratiate himself to the fans. This whole "I haven't been treated fairly" chip on his shoulder is misplaced IMO.

Again, I don't hate KO, but he does make it tough for us to root for him.

Well, at least you are approaching it from a more rational level. I don't see that
seething hatred in you that I do some others.

My compliments for that. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

[Lancane]

Well, at least you are approaching it from a more rational level. I don't see that
seething hatred in you that I do some others.

My compliments for that. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

Hey...there is nothing wrong with my seething hatred! :mad:

[Lancane]

I, too, am glad that the fans are not making the decisions for the team.

Yeah, like the fans could do any worse over the past few years? :lol:

[TXBRONC]

Not taking a sack when a stiff wind blows would be a big plus too.

That would mean he would have to be more consistent feeling pressure and sliding away from it. I just don't see that happening with Orton.

[topscribe]

Hey...there is nothing wrong with my seething hatred! :mad:

As long as you don't hate me, big guy! http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

[Lonestar]

Opinionative and one that is not widely shared... As I stated in a different thread, the quarterback drama is getting rather old, it's time for someone who has at least the majority behind them. You say we'll be poorer, I believe will be richer because I don't think we'll accept mediocrity any longer, not even from the likes of Tebow.


plainly you did not understand my post..
could be the blind hate going on.

We will be poorer because he is gone and we got NOTHING for him..


He is going to have a contract year folks and then he will be gone. We will be poorer because of that.

[Lonestar]

I heard they are calling the rookie Franklin... "The Swinging Door"...
and that our O-line is still not looking very good..
and that whoever QB's is gonna be running for his life.

Vegas odds are that we get 5.5 wins. ( most advise picking the under)

Dont kid yourself...

This team is NOT very good...
and whoever QB's this team is NOT gonna have a great year.

We are rebuilding... and it aint gonna look pretty...

I doubt that Orton is gonna piss off his detractors because of his incredible play.

It is gonna simply be another half season of Kyle...
and once the season is in the tank..
and we gave it our best shot...
and the vets accept that NOW we have to develop the kid...
it will be time to rebuild at QB as well.

Buh Bye, Mr Kyle....

Have fun riding the bench in the 2nd half of 2011 on your way to free agency...

Tebow may not be the answer... but it sure aint Orton...
and we will find out soon enough.

Frankly I do not think we will win 5..

To much change to little time to teach them up..

I have been an advocate for a long time to trade Orton and get something for him..

But unless something catastrophic happens between now and the trading deadline he will be our starter for much of the year..

Frankly I disagree about QB having a good year, IF the OL is upgraded and Not sure how it can't be with a full time ORT. (heard he was blowing DEs away) just teh opposite of what you heard.
IF the D is a TAD better. The RB should be better this year, the oline should be blocking better, and hopefully we will not be playing from 2 or more TD down for most of the games.. WIth that scenario the QB could have a great year with more folks to throw to..

While we will be a better team and will be in alot of games the schedule is to brutal for us to win more than 5 or 6 tops..

[Lonestar]

TOP you may be too old, but did you ever play sports, football for one? In football if your offense can not produce and are play defense the whole time.....you wear down. Our defense was not great and it was on the field too much. 3 and outs do not help. If you look at time of possession for our big loss games....we were on offense for 1/3 of game and on defense for 2/3. Our defense was worn out.

eh could you show a couple of examples where we only had 20 minutes TOP..

I will be surprised if you can and I suspect you will be really surprised just how little difference there was..

[NightTerror218]

eh could you show a couple of examples where we only had 20 minutes TOP..

I will be surprised if you can and I suspect you will be really surprised just how little difference there was..

Ravens game!!!!!!!

Edit: Raiders game!! KC game.
3 games that we had TOP longer we won. There were only 3 games that happened all season. Several more had a 10 min+ difference in the TOP not in our favor.

[Lonestar]

Ravens game!!!!!!!

was that a couple? or did i miss one

BTW the TOP in red is denver




week one.
Third Down Efficiency 3/10 - 30% Third Down Efficiency 3/10 - 30%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50%
Total Net Yards 363 Total Net Yards 299
Time of Possession 30:30 Time of Possession 29:30

two.
Third Down Efficiency 7/11 - 63% Third Down Efficiency 14/20 - 70%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0%
Time of Possession 22:33 Time of Possession 37:27

Three
Third Down Efficiency 6/14 - 42% Third Down Efficiency 5/15 - 33%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/4 - 25%
Total Net Yards 365 Total Net Yards 519
Time of Possession 30:08 Time of Possession 29:52

four

Third Down Efficiency 3/15 - 20% Third Down Efficiency 3/12 - 25%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0%
Total Net Yards 327 Total Net Yards 288
Time of Possession 35:18 Time of Possession 24:42

Five

Third Down Efficiency 5/13 - 38% Third Down Efficiency 7/13 - 53%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0%
Total Net Yards 346 Total Net Yards 415
Time of Possession 23:43 Time of Possession 36:17

SIX
Third Down Efficiency 5/13 - 38% Third Down Efficiency 7/18 - 38%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0%
Total Net Yards 319 Total Net Yards 346
Time of Possession 29:37 Time of Possession 30:23

seven
Third Down Efficiency 6/13 - 46% Third Down Efficiency 2/11 - 18%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/2 - 0%
Total Net Yards 508 Total Net Yards 240
Time of Possession 38:39 Time of Possession 21:21

eight
Third Down Efficiency 2/10 - 20% Third Down Efficiency 5/13 - 38%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0%
Total Net Yards 398 Total Net Yards 339

Time of Possession 26:26 Time of
Possession 33:34

Week TEN
Third Down Efficiency 5/13 - 38% Third Down Efficiency 6/10 - 60%
Fourth Down Efficiency 2/4 - 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0%
Total Net Yards 484 Total Net Yards 452

Time of Possession 31:51 Time of Possession 28:09

week 11

Third Down Efficiency 1/12 - 8% Third Down Efficiency 7/14 - 50%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100%
Total Net Yards 235 Total Net Yards 400
Time of Possession 25:41 Time of Possession 34:19

week 12

Third Down Efficiency 6/16 - 37% Third Down Efficiency 1/9 - 11%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50%
Total Net Yards 431 Total Net Yards 449

Time of Possession 34:17 Time of Possession 25:43

week 13

Third Down Efficiency 3/12 - 25% Third Down Efficiency 6/14 - 42%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0%
Total Net Yards 247 Total Net Yards 359

Time of Possession 22:46 Time of Possession 37:14

week 14
Third Down Efficiency 3/15 - 20% Third Down Efficiency 4/16 - 25%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100%
Total Net Yards 288 Total Net Yards 357

Time of Possession 29:39 Time of Possession 30:21


week 15

Third Down Efficiency 2/12 - 16% Third Down Efficiency 2/11 - 18%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100%
Total Net Yards 235 Total Net Yards 502
Time of Possession 26:03 Time of Possession 33:57

week 16
Third Down Efficiency 1/8 - 12% Third Down Efficiency 5/11 - 45%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0%
Total Net Yards 401 Total Net Yards 431

Time of Possession 28:10 Time of Possession 31:50


week 17

Third Down Efficiency 7/18 - 38% Third Down Efficiency 5/14 - 35%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/3 - 33%
Total Net Yards 447 Total Net Yards 337

Time of Possession 34:22 Time of Possession 25:38







there you go not a single game where we only had 20 minutes possession.. and couple of time we were close but no banana..

but then a quick and dirty third down efficiency does not always correspond with total yards or TOP.

ABout half way thru I thought I should have added red zone efficiency but was not going back to add that in.

Good try about 1/3 and they have 2/3 TOP..

but again no banana

[Lancane]

plainly you did not understand my post..
could be the blind hate going on.

We will be poorer because he is gone and we got NOTHING for him..

Ah...now I understand, sorry, I thought you meant we'd be poorer without his presence. I do admit that it sucks that we'll get nothing in return - part of the reason it would have been smarter to trade him this year, and pretty much the same for Quinn...which we got really nothing but a third string quarterback for that trade.

[NightTerror218]

was that a couple? or did i miss one

BTW the TOP in red is denver




week one.
Third Down Efficiency 3/10 - 30% Third Down Efficiency 3/10 - 30%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50%
Total Net Yards 363 Total Net Yards 299
Time of Possession 30:30 Time of Possession 29:30

two.
Third Down Efficiency 7/11 - 63% Third Down Efficiency 14/20 - 70%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0%
Time of Possession 22:33 Time of Possession 37:27

Three
Third Down Efficiency 6/14 - 42% Third Down Efficiency 5/15 - 33%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/4 - 25%
Total Net Yards 365 Total Net Yards 519
Time of Possession 30:08 Time of Possession 29:52

four

Third Down Efficiency 3/15 - 20% Third Down Efficiency 3/12 - 25%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0%
Total Net Yards 327 Total Net Yards 288
Time of Possession 35:18 Time of Possession 24:42

Five

Third Down Efficiency 5/13 - 38% Third Down Efficiency 7/13 - 53%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0%
Total Net Yards 346 Total Net Yards 415
Time of Possession 23:43 Time of Possession 36:17

SIX
Third Down Efficiency 5/13 - 38% Third Down Efficiency 7/18 - 38%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0%
Total Net Yards 319 Total Net Yards 346
Time of Possession 29:37 Time of Possession 30:23

seven
Third Down Efficiency 6/13 - 46% Third Down Efficiency 2/11 - 18%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/2 - 0%
Total Net Yards 508 Total Net Yards 240
Time of Possession 38:39 Time of Possession 21:21

eight
Third Down Efficiency 2/10 - 20% Third Down Efficiency 5/13 - 38%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0%
Total Net Yards 398 Total Net Yards 339

Time of Possession 26:26 Time of
Possession 33:34

Week TEN
Third Down Efficiency 5/13 - 38% Third Down Efficiency 6/10 - 60%
Fourth Down Efficiency 2/4 - 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0%
Total Net Yards 484 Total Net Yards 452

Time of Possession 31:51 Time of Possession 28:09

week 11

Third Down Efficiency 1/12 - 8% Third Down Efficiency 7/14 - 50%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100%
Total Net Yards 235 Total Net Yards 400
Time of Possession 25:41 Time of Possession 34:19

week 12

Third Down Efficiency 6/16 - 37% Third Down Efficiency 1/9 - 11%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50%
Total Net Yards 431 Total Net Yards 449

Time of Possession 34:17 Time of Possession 25:43

week 13

Third Down Efficiency 3/12 - 25% Third Down Efficiency 6/14 - 42%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0%
Total Net Yards 247 Total Net Yards 359

Time of Possession 22:46 Time of Possession 37:14

week 14
Third Down Efficiency 3/15 - 20% Third Down Efficiency 4/16 - 25%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100%
Total Net Yards 288 Total Net Yards 357

Time of Possession 29:39 Time of Possession 30:21


week 15

Third Down Efficiency 2/12 - 16% Third Down Efficiency 2/11 - 18%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100%
Total Net Yards 235 Total Net Yards 502
Time of Possession 26:03 Time of Possession 33:57

week 16
Third Down Efficiency 1/8 - 12% Third Down Efficiency 5/11 - 45%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0%
Total Net Yards 401 Total Net Yards 431

Time of Possession 28:10 Time of Possession 31:50


week 17

Third Down Efficiency 7/18 - 38% Third Down Efficiency 5/14 - 35%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/1 - 100% Fourth Down Efficiency 1/3 - 33%
Total Net Yards 447 Total Net Yards 337

Time of Possession 34:22 Time of Possession 25:38







there you go not a single game where we only had 20 minutes possession.. and couple of time we were close but no banana..

but then a quick and dirty third down efficiency does not always correspond with total yards or TOP.

ABout half way thru I thought I should have added red zone efficiency but was not going back to add that in.

Good try about 1/3 and they have 2/3 TOP..

but again no banana

are you seriously going to be that anal over 5%?

I would say anything close to 20 mins is 1/3 of TOP

[topscribe]

Ah...now I understand, sorry, I thought you meant we'd be poorer without his presence. I do admit that it sucks that we'll get nothing in return - part of the reason it would have been smarter to trade him this year, and pretty much the same for Quinn...which we got really nothing but a third string quarterback for that trade.

I'll say it: We would be poorer without his presence.

There.

-----

[Lancane]

I'll say it: We would be poorer without his presence.

There.

-----

Yeah, but that's simple...we all know that senility comes with age! :D

:behindsofa:

[topscribe]

Yeah, but that's simple...we all know that senility comes with age! :D

:behindsofa:

Yeah well, I'll be coming through Ft. Collins one of these days . . .

-----

[Northman]

Thats if he can remember how to drive Lancane.

[SR]

:yawn:

Back to The Office re-runs on TBS.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I heard this guy on the radio today.. and he cracked me up.

He said... about Orton... and this article...

"Why is Kyle acting so dang smug?
Just because you are the biggest turd in the toilet bowl
doesn't mean that you don't stink!"

I LOL'd.

[Lancane]

I heard this guy on the radio today.. and he cracked me up.

He said... about Orton... and this article...

"Why is Kyle acting so dang smug?
Just because you are the biggest turd in the toilet bowl
doesn't mean that you don't stink!"

I LOL'd.

Now that's F'n funny...:lol:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I've only got three words to respond to Orton's comments:

You'd better win...

[Lancane]

I've only got three words to respond to Orton's comments:

You'd better win...

Really? Couldn't demand something more, I dunno...doable? Like try not to lose, or try to act like you give a damn...or maybe trip into a tree-shredder even?

:lol:

[bcbronc]

I don't think anybody is claiming that the losses were all Orton's fault, but he has to assume some responsibility.

what losses? We're 0-0.

I disagree that Orton should be dwelling on last season. His only focus should be earning the #1 job. Only way to do that is to impress your coaches and teammates. Trying to win back the fans right now would be putting the horse before the cart.




This team is NOT very good...
and whoever QB's this team is NOT gonna have a great year.

.

I'm feeling a lot more confident and think we'll have a respectable years. 6-10 wins depending on luck, injuries and who does/nt have a break-out season.

I'll say a season record of 7-9 on a solid RBC ground game, a defense that gets stronger every week, and some X-Factor from Tebow in support of the adequate starter play of either Orton or Quinn.


While Orton is still here the book on McDaniels remains open. To me that's souring thought.

to me that's a silly thought. Why should the butt hurt for McDaniels be hung around Orton's neck?


I just think his attitude comes off as though he can't believe there is any QB controversy and that his play speaks for itself... Well, his play does tell a story, and it's not of a top flight NFL QB. There are a lot of holes in his game. I think he could benefit from being more gracious and humble.

agreed, his game does have a lot of holes in it. But holes can be plugged. His first year here, his deep ball sucked donkey hoof. Last year it was much improved.

If he has patched another hole this offseason, he can have a good year. Two biggest areas of need from last season, imo:

intermediate accuracy--he constantly made his WRs work much harder than they should have on throws in the 10-20 yard range, sometimes at the expense of YAC.

and more importantly, being more aggressive/assertive in his decision making. I don't want to see him play recklessly with the ball, but he needs to find a better balance. There are times and places where the 50/50 ball is a chance worth taking.

Our OL is already well ahead of where it was this time last year. Only 1 rookie, Clady had a healthy off-season, and everyone has played every rep at their correct position. That helps the running game--which looks to have better depth by far--and that helps the QB.

One thing no one can take from McDaniels is that he is good at developing QBs. Orton isn't a world beater, but he's much improved since his days in Chicago. Why someone would think he'd peak in his 3rd year is puzzling. He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, but he could be Jake Delhorme.

With that said, I'm on the Quinn bandwagon. He upgrades the athleticism on KO and is a more consistent passer than TT. TT I see as a situational "football player" at this point, and nothing wrong with that if he produces TDs.

[TXBRONC]

I heard this guy on the radio today.. and he cracked me up.

He said... about Orton... and this article...

"Why is Kyle acting so dang smug?
Just because you are the biggest turd in the toilet bowl
doesn't mean that you don't stink!"

I LOL'd.

That is funny. :laugh:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Really? Couldn't demand something more, I dunno...doable? Like try not to lose, or try to act like you give a damn...or maybe trip into a tree-shredder even?

:lol:

Why wish for something that won't come true? If the defense comes on like gang busters climbing into the top 5 in points against and we can run the ball with an average of say, 200 yards a game and 3 rushing TDs, I see no reason why Orton can't ride that train to some wins.

The thing is, sooner or later they will put the ball in Orton's hands late in a game and expect him to drive the length of the field for a game winning/tying score. He was 1 for 6 in that situation last year. He'd better win...

[DenBronx]

I don't give a shit what Orton thinks.


If he wins the job then he wins the job. However, if he starts to suck then I'm pretty sure the fans will burn down Invesco if the coaches don't make a change.

[bcbronc]

Why wish for something that won't come true? If the defense comes on like gang busters climbing into the top 5 in points against and we can run the ball with an average of say, 200 yards a game and 3 rushing TDs, I see no reason why Orton can't ride that train to some wins.

The thing is, sooner or later they will put the ball in Orton's hands late in a game and expect him to drive the length of the field for a game winning/tying score. He was 1 for 6 in that situation last year. He'd better win...

yup. Between the 20s, 1st or 2nd down in the first three quarters, Orton is a good QB. Fourth quarter 3rd down or redzone, he's a bad QB. He'll need to show he's improved in those areas if he wants to emerge the #1 after preseason.

[TXBRONC]

yup. Between the 20s, 1st or 2nd down in the first three quarters, Orton is a good QB. Fourth quarter 3rd down or redzone, he's a bad QB. He'll need to show he's improved in those areas if he wants to emerge the #1 after preseason.

More than likely he already has wrapped up and considering Orton wont see that much time on the field to know if he's improved in those areas. This will be his fifth year as starter and he hasn't improved on those things to date so doubt he will all of the sudden become more prolific in those aspects of his game.

[chazoe60]

I doubt Orton plays more than ten games for us this season. We could easily be 1-9 or 2-8 at the ten game mark and sticking with a lame duck loser at that point makes no sense. Plus his peanut brittle high ankles could very well be in play by that time.

[topscribe]

I doubt Orton plays more than ten games for us this season. We could easily be 1-9 or 2-8 at the ten game mark and sticking with a lame duck loser at that point makes no sense. Plus his peanut brittle high ankles could very well be in play by that time.

Oh? And in which game did Kyle injure an ankle last year?

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Oh? And in which game did Kyle injure an ankle last year?

-----

Who knows. You tell us. I'm sure there was an injured ankle, toe, finger, or hair-plug somewhere that caused him to miss some open pass at sometime.

[topscribe]

I've only got three words to respond to Orton's comments:

You'd better win...

Thank you.

In the end, that's all that really needs to be said . . .



Why wish for something that won't come true? If the defense comes on like gang busters climbing into the top 5 in points against and we can run the ball with an average of say, 200 yards a game and 3 rushing TDs, I see no reason why Orton can't ride that train to some wins.

The thing is, sooner or later they will put the ball in Orton's hands late in a game and expect him to drive the length of the field for a game winning/tying score. He was 1 for 6 in that situation last year. He'd better win...

Can't disagree. It's not like he's incapable of it, though. Witness Detroit 2008,
NE 2009, St. Louis 2010. But it's not unreasonable to ask him to improve on
that this year . . .

-----

[G_Money]

Orton has not ALWAYS suffered in the clutch. Just last year. People are really gonna have some crow to choke down if he goes back to his 2009 clutch performance instead of his 2010.

And I say this as someone who would have preferred to dump Orton and figure out what Tebow can do.

Orton's not coming back to Denver after this year, IMO. He's too divisive, and not good enough to be worth the polarization. But if he combines the things he did well last year with the things he did well in 2009...Orton could absolutely get a long-term deal with us and we could kick Tebow to the curb.

Being a jerk-off is not a disqualifier for being a QB in conference championships. See Cutley, Jay. Orton doesn't have to be Drew Brees, he just needs to be good enough to win the West to be worth keeping around while we fix this thing.

I don't believe in Orton, and I don't think the Broncos do either, long-term. But Elway also said in that piece he'd be disappointed with only 6 wins, and that with the 3rd toughest schedule he basically expects .500 ball.

Tebow learning on the job and reworking his game on the fly to fit the offense is not gonna help us play .500 or better ball. Whether we should be aiming for mediocrity with a QB who will likely not be here next year instead of finding out whether we need to draft another QB in 2012 is a different argument.

I understand Tebow being the backup and Orton being the starter from a winning games and not losing the locker room standpoint. And the West SHOULD be very winnable. The Chiefs are not a juggernaut, building a pressure D would help against Rivers and SD (Who are still coached by a moron who also folds under pressure, last I checked) and the Raiders are...yeah...

I get it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but as a first plan I understand its merits. We'll see how the season goes. If we start 6-3, Elway's first plan will look like a great one. 3-6? Then we'll see if he moves on to the "let's see what Tebow can do" backup plan for half a season, where we either win some extra games because Tebow is a game-day QB and not a practice one, or lose some more because he's not ready and get ourselves in prime position to draft The Future.

My nightmare for the season:
- having a thoroughly mediocre season in a mediocre division, so our 7-9 team is in the playoff race til the last 2 weeks
- Tim never sees the field as a starter while fans boo Orton all over the place
- Orton bails for friendlier pastures in the offseason and we have a crappy draft position and no more idea of what Tim can be than we had when the season started
- Tebow regresses because his special packages all involve using the spread and running into the end zone, ie, exactly the mentality we want him to get out of to start for us

It's gonna interesting to follow - the QB decision for the first half of the year is made, barring injury.

We'll see what Orton can do with his chance...and whether Tebow will get one in the second half so we're not working our 2012 QB situation in the dark.

~G

[TXBRONC]

Orton has not ALWAYS suffered in the clutch. Just last year. People are really gonna have some crow to choke down if he goes back to his 2009 clutch performance instead of his 2010.

And I say this as someone who would have preferred to dump Orton and figure out what Tebow can do.

Orton's not coming back to Denver after this year, IMO. He's too divisive, and not good enough to be worth the polarization. But if he combines the things he did well last year with the things he did well in 2009...Orton could absolutely get a long-term deal with us and we could kick Tebow to the curb.

Being a jerk-off is not a disqualifier for being a QB in conference championships. See Cutley, Jay. Orton doesn't have to be Drew Brees, he just needs to be good enough to win the West to be worth keeping around while we fix this thing.

I don't believe in Orton, and I don't think the Broncos do either, long-term. But Elway also said in that piece he'd be disappointed with only 6 wins, and that with the 3rd toughest schedule he basically expects .500 ball.

Tebow learning on the job and reworking his game on the fly to fit the offense is not gonna help us play .500 or better ball. Whether we should be aiming for mediocrity with a QB who will likely not be here next year instead of finding out whether we need to draft another QB in 2012 is a different argument.

I understand Tebow being the backup and Orton being the starter from a winning games and not losing the locker room standpoint. And the West SHOULD be very winnable. The Chiefs are not a juggernaut, building a pressure D would help against Rivers and SD (Who are still coached by a moron who also folds under pressure, last I checked) and the Raiders are...yeah...

I get it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but as a first plan I understand its merits. We'll see how the season goes. If we start 6-3, Elway's first plan will look like a great one. 3-6? Then we'll see if he moves on to the "let's see what Tebow can do" backup plan for half a season, where we either win some extra games because Tebow is a game-day QB and not a practice one, or lose some more because he's not ready and get ourselves in prime position to draft The Future.

My nightmare for the season:
- having a thoroughly mediocre season in a mediocre division, so our 7-9 team is in the playoff race til the last 2 weeks
- Tim never sees the field as a starter while fans boo Orton all over the place
- Orton bails for friendlier pastures in the offseason and we have a crappy draft position and no more idea of what Tim can be than we had when the season started
- Tebow regresses because his special packages all involve using the spread and running into the end zone, ie, exactly the mentality we want him to get out of to start for us

It's gonna interesting to follow - the QB decision for the first half of the year is made, barring injury.

We'll see what Orton can do with his chance...and whether Tebow will get one in the second half so we're not working our 2012 QB situation in the dark.

~G

I'll willing eat crow if Orton is in the situation to pull games out of the fire and actually does it.

Yes in 2009 did bring the team back during the first six games of the season but after that he did it. The finger gets pointed at the defense for the second half collapse however, there several game we were in going into the 3rd quater and we just could move the ball to keep the defense off the field.

[Ravage!!!]

its EASY to come "back" when you defense is holding the opposing team to ZERO points, as we did in those first 6 games of '09.

[Northman]

Orton has not ALWAYS suffered in the clutch. Just last year. People are really gonna have some crow to choke down if he goes back to his 2009 clutch performance instead of his 2010.

And I say this as someone who would have preferred to dump Orton and figure out what Tebow can do.

Orton's not coming back to Denver after this year, IMO. He's too divisive, and not good enough to be worth the polarization. But if he combines the things he did well last year with the things he did well in 2009...Orton could absolutely get a long-term deal with us and we could kick Tebow to the curb.

Being a jerk-off is not a disqualifier for being a QB in conference championships. See Cutley, Jay. Orton doesn't have to be Drew Brees, he just needs to be good enough to win the West to be worth keeping around while we fix this thing.

I don't believe in Orton, and I don't think the Broncos do either, long-term. But Elway also said in that piece he'd be disappointed with only 6 wins, and that with the 3rd toughest schedule he basically expects .500 ball.

Tebow learning on the job and reworking his game on the fly to fit the offense is not gonna help us play .500 or better ball. Whether we should be aiming for mediocrity with a QB who will likely not be here next year instead of finding out whether we need to draft another QB in 2012 is a different argument.

I understand Tebow being the backup and Orton being the starter from a winning games and not losing the locker room standpoint. And the West SHOULD be very winnable. The Chiefs are not a juggernaut, building a pressure D would help against Rivers and SD (Who are still coached by a moron who also folds under pressure, last I checked) and the Raiders are...yeah...

I get it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but as a first plan I understand its merits. We'll see how the season goes. If we start 6-3, Elway's first plan will look like a great one. 3-6? Then we'll see if he moves on to the "let's see what Tebow can do" backup plan for half a season, where we either win some extra games because Tebow is a game-day QB and not a practice one, or lose some more because he's not ready and get ourselves in prime position to draft The Future.

My nightmare for the season:
- having a thoroughly mediocre season in a mediocre division, so our 7-9 team is in the playoff race til the last 2 weeks
- Tim never sees the field as a starter while fans boo Orton all over the place
- Orton bails for friendlier pastures in the offseason and we have a crappy draft position and no more idea of what Tim can be than we had when the season started
- Tebow regresses because his special packages all involve using the spread and running into the end zone, ie, exactly the mentality we want him to get out of to start for us

It's gonna interesting to follow - the QB decision for the first half of the year is made, barring injury.

We'll see what Orton can do with his chance...and whether Tebow will get one in the second half so we're not working our 2012 QB situation in the dark.

~G


Well said and on the money.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I wont have to "eat crow" if Orton has a 500 season.

I am a Broncos fan... I am happy to see them play...
and am thrilled every time they win.


I am entitled to my opinion... and I have one...
but when push comes to shove.. I have always supported my team.

I was at Invesco.. and I did not Boo Kyle...

I expect some big improvements on defense...
and I DO HOPE that Kyle does not mess up again this year.

Heck... I even wish him the best...
as our QB and in his next job when he finaly
achieves his desire to play somewhere else.

That is most definitly my desire as well...
for Kyle to play somewhere else.

See?

Me and Kyle AGREE!

It is one big happy Bronco nation.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I'll willing eat crow if Orton is in the situation to pull games out of the fire and actually does it.

Yes in 2009 did bring the team back during the first six games of the season but after that he did it. The finger gets pointed at the defense for the second half collapse however, there several game we were in going into the 3rd quater and we just could move the ball to keep the defense off the field.

I hardly give kyle credit for the Immacualte Reception comeback win...
his inability to score on our drive before put us into that hole...
if you remember... he simply had to take the snap...
throw the ball to the sideline if no one was open...

instead he took the sack that pulled us out of field goal range.
otherwise we would have been up by 10 points before Bengals scored.

----------------------------

The Raiders game... we flat out won that one...
Eddie Royal was GREAT on kick returns...
there was no Orton come back

____________________________

dont have the other 4 at my fingertips...
but really.. did Kyle win any of those with a big dramatic comeback?

I can't remember at this moment....

I give him credit for what he did accomplish..
the patriots game stands out...
the dallas game was a pleasant surprise..

but this stuff is all ancient history at this point.

I am interested in the now...
and I accept what is headed our way.

Go Broncos!

[Northman]

I hardly give kyle credit for the Immacualte Reception comeback win...
his inability to score on our drive before put us into that hole...
if you remember... he simply had to take the snap...
throw the ball to the sideline if no one was open...

instead he took the sack that pulled us out of field goal range.
otherwise we would have been up by 10 points before Bengals scored.

----------------------------

The Raiders game... we flat out won that one...
Eddie Royal was GREAT on kick returns...
there was no Orton come back

____________________________

dont have the other 4 at my fingertips...
but really.. did Kyle win any of those with a big dramatic comeback?

I can't remember at this moment....

I give him credit for what he did accomplish..
the patriots game stands out...
the dallas game was a pleasant surprise..

but this stuff is all ancient history at this point.

I am interested in the now...
and I accept what is headed our way.

Go Broncos!

Kyle had good drives in the Patriots and Cowboys games. But, as pointed out by Rav the defense played a huge part in keeping the score close. Last year we saw that Orton cant match scores with teams and inflates his stats in garbage time when the opposing defense relaxes.

[broncobryce]

its EASY to come "back" when you defense is holding the opposing team to ZERO points, as we did in those first 6 games of '09.

I agree. The defense gets the credit for most if not all of the wins. Orton didn't lose them but this is the nfl and I want better than a qb who won't lose a game. He needs to be able to win some.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[G_Money]

You won't get any argument from me about Orton's weaknesses from the last couple seasons. A better running game, better blocking, and better defense would help him a lot.

Will we have those things? Man, I hope so, or it's gonna be another ugly season. :coffee:

If we do, though...Orton's gonna look all right. Will he BE any better? I don't believe so, but I'm not an Orton backer. We'll just have camoflauged his weaknesses against teams that can't exploit em.

But, um, that's what we'll be doing with Tebow, too - camoflauging his weaknesses. He and Orton have different strengths, and I happen to like some of Tim's, but one of those guys has to step up this year. I don't believe it'll be Orton, but that's why a mediocre, mostly-in-contention year is my fear.

If/since Orton can't lead us anywhere special, I don't want to devote the whole year to him, but if things don't go horribly wrong for him early then Tim's ability to get a coach's time and expertise will be limited, as will his game snaps.

Definitely be a year worth watching, though, to see what kind of team we're trying to put together and how ANY of the QBs on the current roster fit into that design.

~G

[Lonestar]

are you seriously going to be that anal over 5%?

I would say anything close to 20 mins is 1/3 of TOP

If you would have said about 1/3 or close to.. I might have let it slid..

But YOU were very definite in your commentary


Originally Posted by Phidelt218 View Post
TOP you may be too old, but did you ever play sports, football for one? In football if your offense can not produce and are play defense the whole time.....you wear down. Our defense was not great and it was on the field too much. 3 and outs do not help. If you look at time of possession for our big loss games....we were on offense for 1/3 of game and on defense for 2/3. Our defense was worn out.

While I see your premise not all of those games

like game 2


two.
Third Down Efficiency 7/11 - 63% Third Down Efficiency 14/20 - 70%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0%
Time of Possession 22:33 Time of Possession 37:27


had poor 3rd down issues.. 63% is not shabby at all..


Now this is a gmmie..



week 13

Third Down Efficiency 3/12 - 25% Third Down Efficiency 6/14 - 42%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0%
Total Net Yards 247 Total Net Yards 359

Time of Possession 22:46 Time of Possession 37:14

so while you are partailly correct, NONE of the GAMES did the opposing team have a 2 to 1 edge in time you were saying they did..

[NightTerror218]

If you would have said about 1/3 or close to.. I might have let it slid..

But YOU were very definite in your commentary



While I see your premise not all of those games

like game 2


two.
Third Down Efficiency 7/11 - 63% Third Down Efficiency 14/20 - 70%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 - 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0%
Time of Possession 22:33 Time of Possession 37:27


had poor 3rd down issues.. 63% is not shabby at all..


Now this is a gmmie..



week 13

Third Down Efficiency 3/12 - 25% Third Down Efficiency 6/14 - 42%
Fourth Down Efficiency 0/0 - 0% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 - 0%
Total Net Yards 247 Total Net Yards 359

Time of Possession 22:46 Time of Possession 37:14

so while you are partailly correct, NONE of the GAMES did the opposing team have a 2 to 1 edge in time you were saying they did..


Not to the exact T, but 21 mins is pretty damn close to 20 if you ask me.

[Lonestar]

I've only got three words to respond to Orton's comments:

You'd better win...

I just want to see better play overall than last year, from losts of pieces of the team..

I doiubt that even Elway could turn this season into a winner.

Brutal schedule..

IIR 3rd worst in the league..

That is not counting a new scheme onD new parts to teh O and who the hell knows on ST.

Lots of new kids on boht sides of the ball and not a minute in the offseason to start putting the pieces together..

maybe 5 wins with a bunch of scores tha are closer than last year..

That works for me..

[Lonestar]

Not to the exact T, but 21 mins is pretty damn close to 20 if you ask me.

I still do not see even 21 let alone 20.. but if your ok with that I'll not quibble that you do think it is 2 to 1 ratio..:laugh::laugh:

Just remember there will be some horse shoe and grenade throwing later.. please make sure you do not quibble then..:salute::salute:

[NightTerror218]

I still do not see even 21 let alone 20.. but if your ok with that I'll not quibble that you do think it is 2 to 1 ratio..:laugh::laugh:

Just remember there will be some horse shoe and grenade throwing later.. please make sure you do not quibble then..:salute::salute:

I am a civil engineer, nothing is exact, and everything has Factors of Safety.

[Lonestar]

I hardly give kyle credit for the Immacualte Reception comeback win...
his inability to score on our drive before put us into that hole...
if you remember... he simply had to take the snap...
throw the ball to the sideline if no one was open...

instead he took the sack that pulled us out of field goal range.
otherwise we would have been up by 10 points before Bengals scored.

----------------------------

The Raiders game... we flat out won that one...
Eddie Royal was GREAT on kick returns...
there was no Orton come back

____________________________

dont have the other 4 at my fingertips...
but really.. did Kyle win any of those with a big dramatic comeback?

I can't remember at this moment....

I give him credit for what he did accomplish..
the patriots game stands out...
the dallas game was a pleasant surprise..

but this stuff is all ancient history at this point.

I am interested in the now...
and I accept what is headed our way.

Go Broncos!

I guess I'm looking for a TEAM that does not require EVER the QB having to pull something out of his ass for the win..

Give me a dominationg D and a good to ge=reat O and ST tath one does not have to take a Nitro pill each time, worrying about how we are going to FUBAR it all up.

Even Elway we were doing the come backs because of one or more parts of our team, dropped the ball.

We kicked alot of last minute FGs to pull one out..

I'm hoping that Fox can stablie all parts of the team and let us be bored with winning by 2-3 TDs each week..

[Lonestar]

I am a civil engineer, nothing is exact, and everything has Factors of Safety.

CIvil as in Government job?

[NightTerror218]

CIvil as in Government job?

As in I design the roads and bridges you drive over everyday....and design the water and sewer systems you depend on

[Lonestar]

As in I design the roads and bridges you drive over everyday....and design the water and sewer systems you depend on

If that is the case, IF I ever see you going to punch you in the nose for that ******* jeep trails this city calls roads..

as for the sewer rain water drainage you screwed hogans goat on that as we do not have any..

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[NightTerror218]

If that is the case, IF I ever see you going to punch you in the nose for that ******* jeep trails this city calls roads..

as for the sewer rain water drainage you screwed hogans goat on that as we do not have any..

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

If you happen to live in Alaska then I would take the blame......but otherwise :beer:

Its funny how incompetent many cities are....they do screw hogans goats often.....I love the private district :D

[chazoe60]

LS, it's extremely rare to win a SB with a QB that is average or in Orton's case, slightly below average. Look at who wins SBs, the vast majority are won by elite QBs or the guys on the tier just below that elite level. Orton is not on either of those levels.

[chazoe60]

Sure fire SB formula

Elite QB + Good/Great LT + Top 10 Defense (top 10 in takeaways a must) + upper half of league in rushing ATTEMPTS (attempts is the real important rushing stat) = Championship.

Now the rushing attempt stat seems to be diminishing in importance but I still think it aids greatly.

[NightTerror218]

Sure fire SB formula

Elite QB + Good/Great LT + Top 10 Defense (top 10 in takeaways a must) + upper half of league in rushing ATTEMPTS (attempts is the real important rushing stat) = Championship.

Now the rushing attempt stat seems to be diminishing in importance but I still think it aids greatly.

I would substitute Elite QB for top 10-15 QB. Eli Manning is not Elite.

[chazoe60]

I would substitute Elite QB for top 10-15 QB. Eli Manning is not Elite.

Yeah but I said " Sure fire".

Like any formula, you up one variable and another can go down. The Giants defense, especially their DL, was so good it made up for anything Manning lacked. And BTW Eli is better than people think also. He plays 8 games a year in arguably the most QB unfriendly stadium in the NFL.

[Lonestar]

LS, it's extremely rare to win a SB with a QB that is average or in Orton's case, slightly below average. Look at who wins SBs, the vast majority are won by elite QBs or the guys on the tier just below that elite level. Orton is not on either of those levels.

do I look like I do not know that..

I just do not hold the same evals on Orton, that you do.. You seem to be totally convinvced of your Opinions where John and John seem not to.



Not saying he will be a HOF QB, but I beleive he is better than you think he is..

That said I was all on borard to trade him and ride the Tebow wave.. so we know what we have for the future..

It is unlikely we will get what we want for Orton, therefore he most likley be our starter for the foreseeable future.. :salute:

[Juriga72]

I think Orton is a great back up. MUCH the same way Steve Deberg was...Play him too long and you get 5-21....

Play him just barely and you get 2-1...

[chazoe60]

do I look like I do not know that..

I just do not hold the same evals on Orton, that you do.. You seem to be totally convinvced of your Opinions where John and John seem not to.



Not saying he will be a HOF QB, but I beleive he is better than you think he is..

That said I was all on borard to trade him and ride the Tebow wave.. so we know what we have for the future..

It is unlikely we will get what we want for Orton, therefore he most likley be our starter for the foreseeable future.. :salute:


I can't see you so I can't answer you first question. :laugh: just messin with ya'


As far as Orton goes, yes we see things different. A QB who struggles on 3rd down, the RZ, against the blitz, and in the clutch is not a QB who will have the ultimate success in the NFL.
ESPN's new QB rating hit the nail on the head IMHO as far as Orton is concerned. It rated him just below average, which is what he is.

[dogfish]

hah. . . even that crazed dog romanowski thinks tebow should be starting. . . :heh:



Romanowski also had some thoughts on Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow, saying that Tebow should be playing on “some team that doesn’t have a chance in hell to go anywhere.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/10/bill-romanowski-says-lazy-mcnabb-couldnt-fit-with-shanahan/#comments



:lol:

[NightTerror218]

hah. . . even that crazed dog romanowski thinks tebow should be starting. . . :heh:




http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/10/bill-romanowski-says-lazy-mcnabb-couldnt-fit-with-shanahan/#comments



:lol:

Loved watching that guy....was pissed when he went to the Raiders......crazy as hell kinda guy

[Ravage!!!]

I would substitute Elite QB for top 10-15 QB. Eli Manning is not Elite.

No, but there are only about 6 elite. Eli is much closer to the top of that next six than you give him credit for.

[Lonestar]

I can't see you so I can't answer you first question. :laugh: just messin with ya'


As far as Orton goes, yes we see things different. A QB who struggles on 3rd down, the RZ, against the blitz, and in the clutch is not a QB who will have the ultimate success in the NFL.
ESPN's new QB rating hit the nail on the head IMHO as far as Orton is concerned. It rated him just below average, which is what he is.

Yet he is in the NFL as a satrter..

MAybe just maybe with some help from a running game and a fair defense you will see it was not all Ortons fault..

[Ravage!!!]

Yet he is in the NFL as a satrter..

MAybe just maybe with some help from a running game and a fair defense you will see it was not all Ortons fault..

ike he had in Chicago..... ooops. :coffee:

[chazoe60]

Yet he is in the NFL as a satrter..

MAybe just maybe with some help from a running game and a fair defense you will see it was not all Ortons fault..

When will Orton apologists realize that any criticism of Orton does not equate to laying 100% of the blame on him?

[Lonestar]

When will Orton apologists realize that any criticism of Orton does not equate to laying 100% of the blame on him?


A QB who struggles on 3rd down, the RZ, against the blitz, and in the clutch is not a QB who will have the ultimate success in the NFL.

when will y'all admit that the QB is not the only person on the field "on 3rd down, in the RZ, against the blitz, " they are not in a vacumn and have to have someone catch a ball, make a hole, or hit that hole or make a play that they were supposed to..

when you get that

We will not have to correct you every time..

By repeating something does not make it true..The gullible will believe but anyone with a logical mind will figure out the propaganda..

BTW explaining reasons for failure is not apologizing for it..

[TXBRONC]

Not to the exact T, but 21 mins is pretty damn close to 20 if you ask me.

Yep it's a lot closer to 20 than it is 25 or 30.

[TXBRONC]

hah. . . even that crazed dog romanowski thinks tebow should be starting. . . :heh:




http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/10/bill-romanowski-says-lazy-mcnabb-couldnt-fit-with-shanahan/#comments



:lol:

He must be juicing again. :laugh:

I hope his inference is correct that we have chance to go somewhere but right now I'm not sure I agree.

[Canmore]

when will y'all admit that the QB is not the only person on the field "on 3rd down, in the RZ, against the blitz, " they are not in a vacumn and have to have someone catch a ball, make a hole, or hit that hole or make a play that they were supposed to..

when you get that

We will not have to correct you every time..

By repeating something does not make it true..The gullible will believe but anyone with a logical mind will figure out the propaganda..

BTW explaining reasons for failure is not apologizing for it..

You can win with Kyle Orton. Teams have done just that, but when Kyle is asked to shoulder the load, he has not shown the intangibles that a mediocre team can be hiked up on his shoulders and carried to victory. With the game on the line Kyle did not deliver his team to victory five of six times last year. Once is not enough. Does the team deserve criticism? Sure. It's a team game but a quarterback driven league and the quarterback gets credit for the result. Fair or unfair.

[Tned]

You can win with Kyle Orton. Teams have done just that, but when Kyle is asked to shoulder the load, he has not shown the intangibles that a mediocre team can be hiked up on his shoulders and carried to victory. With the game on the line Kyle did not deliver his team to victory five of six times last year. Once is not enough. Does the team deserve criticism? Sure. It's a team game but a quarterback driven league and the quarterback gets credit for the result. Fair or unfair.

This about sums up my thoughts.

[TXBRONC]

You can win with Kyle Orton. Teams have done just that, but when Kyle is asked to shoulder the load, he has not shown the intangibles that a mediocre team can be hiked up on his shoulders and carried to victory. With the game on the line Kyle did not deliver his team to victory five of six times last year. Once is not enough. Does the team deserve criticism? Sure. It's a team game but a quarterback driven league and the quarterback gets credit for the result. Fair or unfair.


This about sums up my thoughts.

Mine too.

[Lonestar]

You can win with Kyle Orton. Teams have done just that, but when Kyle is asked to shoulder the load, he has not shown the intangibles that a mediocre team can be hiked up on his shoulders and carried to victory. With the game on the line Kyle did not deliver his team to victory five of six times last year. Once is not enough. Does the team deserve criticism? Sure. It's a team game but a quarterback driven league and the quarterback gets credit for the result. Fair or unfair.

Just how many QB's in the NFL can carry the team?


proabbaly name them on one hand..

certainly two hands and frankly it not looking like there will be any more in the near future..

Yes they get the glory and the bad and I've never said it was unfair.

Just think everyone is silly for thinking the QB is all the blame, when we all know our OL last year was a mess with all the injuries, changes of positions (no stability) and rookies.... and the running game suffered because of that and hamstrings.. only later in the year did that all seem to get better..

and the defense and ST sucked all year.. while Orton did not carry the rest of the team it got alot heavier when you add the other areas above to it..

frankly I'm not sure John could have carried this pathetic team last year to much better record.

Now it is a new year with shiny new toys to play with and most if not all of last years surgeries have healed and everyone should be playing at 100%.

How about we give Orton more than ONE series (in a preseason game with no OTAs all year.) before we ride him out of town tarring and feathering him..

Now is that to much to ask?

[chazoe60]

Just how many QB's in the NFL can carry the team?


proabbaly name them on one hand..

certainly two hands and frankly it not looking like there will be any more in the near future..

Yes they get the glory and the bad and I've never said it was unfair.

Just think everyone is silly for thinking the QB is all the blame, when we all know our OL last year was a mess with all the injuries, changes of positions (no stability) and rookies.... and the running game suffered because of that and hamstrings.. only later in the year did that all seem to get better..

and the defense and ST sucked all year.. while Orton did not carry the rest of the team it got alot heavier when you add the other areas above to it..

frankly I'm not sure John could have carried this pathetic team last year to much better record.

Now it is a new year with shiny new toys to play with and most if not all of last years surgeries have healed and everyone should be playing at 100%.

How about we give Orton more than ONE series (in a preseason game with no OTAs all year.) before we ride him out of town tarring and feathering him..

Now is that to much to ask?

that is a ridiculous thing to say. With Elway as our QB last year we would have won the Jax, Jets, KC, SF, and had a good chance to win AZ and Indy games.

Yes the team stunk last year and Orton was a big part of that stench.

[Northman]

Just how many QB's in the NFL can carry the team?


proabbaly name them on one hand..

certainly two hands and frankly it not looking like there will be any more in the near future..

Yes they get the glory and the bad and I've never said it was unfair.

Just think everyone is silly for thinking the QB is all the blame, when we all know our OL last year was a mess with all the injuries, changes of positions (no stability) and rookies.... and the running game suffered because of that and hamstrings.. only later in the year did that all seem to get better..

and the defense and ST sucked all year.. while Orton did not carry the rest of the team it got alot heavier when you add the other areas above to it..

frankly I'm not sure John could have carried this pathetic team last year to much better record.

Now it is a new year with shiny new toys to play with and most if not all of last years surgeries have healed and everyone should be playing at 100%.

How about we give Orton more than ONE series (in a preseason game with no OTAs all year.) before we ride him out of town tarring and feathering him..

Now is that to much to ask?

But this is why you are a hypocrite. Because you will go to such great lengths to make excuses for Orton while at the same time blaming Cutler for all the issues while he was in Denver.

[chazoe60]

But this is why you are a hypocrite. Because you will go to such great lengths to make excuses for Orton while at the same time blaming Cutler for all the issues while he was in Denver.

Cutler took a very comparible team to last years team to an 8-8 record. The difference between Orton and Cutler is pretty large.

[Canmore]

Just how many QB's in the NFL can carry the team?


proabbaly name them on one hand..

certainly two hands and frankly it not looking like there will be any more in the near future..

Yes they get the glory and the bad and I've never said it was unfair.

Just think everyone is silly for thinking the QB is all the blame, when we all know our OL last year was a mess with all the injuries, changes of positions (no stability) and rookies.... and the running game suffered because of that and hamstrings.. only later in the year did that all seem to get better..

and the defense and ST sucked all year.. while Orton did not carry the rest of the team it got alot heavier when you add the other areas above to it..

frankly I'm not sure John could have carried this pathetic team last year to much better record.

Now it is a new year with shiny new toys to play with and most if not all of last years surgeries have healed and everyone should be playing at 100%.

How about we give Orton more than ONE series (in a preseason game with no OTAs all year.) before we ride him out of town tarring and feathering him..

Now is that to much to ask?

Yes, one hand maybe two are the quarterbacks that can shoulder the load. We had one for 16 years. Probably the greatest come from behind quarterback in the history of the game. That's why the standards are so high here in Denver. Kyle stands in a mighty big shadow.

I am prepared to ride the Orton train for the season because he looks like the man. I believe we are going to provide him a semblance of a running game, certainly an improvement over last years version. Kyle needs to improve on third down and in the red zone. A running game should help both, the rest is up to Kyle.

[Lonestar]

Cutler took a very comparible team to last years team to an 8-8 record. The difference between Orton and Cutler is pretty large.

Yeah that last game against rivers was really convincing of his QB mentality. For that matter 3 games ahead with 3 to go ring a bell any where.

Please don't talk about jaysus walking on water in DEN.

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[Lonestar]

Yes, one hand maybe two are the quarterbacks that can shoulder the load. We had one for 16 years. Probably the greatest come from behind quarterback in the history of the game. That's why the standards are so high here in Denver. Kyle stands in a mighty big shadow.

I am prepared to ride the Orton train for the season because he looks like the man. I believe we are going to provide him a semblance of a running game, certainly an improvement over last years version. Kyle needs to improve on third down and in the red zone. A running game should help both, the rest is up to Kyle.

Wow good logical thinking. Better than letting Tye emotions take over.

But again I still do not think even John could have salvaged that season. He never had that bad a defense in his career and as for oline and a poor running game well maybe nit the poor running but his oline was never two rookies and three other players coming off injuries.

Last year was a perfect storm IMHO anything that could go bad did.

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[chazoe60]

Yeah that last game against rivers was really convincing of his QB mentality. For that matter 3 games ahead with 3 to go ring a bell any where.

Please don't talk about jaysus walking on water in DEN.

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Yes because 8-8 is walking on water. Don't misrepresent what I write just because you're looking for an argument.

[Canmore]

Wow good logical thinking. Better than letting Tye emotions take over.

But again I still do not think even John could have salvaged that season. He never had that bad a defense in his career and as for oline and a poor running game well maybe nit the poor running but his oline was never two rookies and three other players coming off injuries.

Last year was a perfect storm IMHO anything that could go bad did.

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To be honest, I don't know what would have happened. I think we would have won at least a few more games. As bad as we were,we had six games where we had the last meaningful drive of the game and we came up short five times. This is what John excelled at, snatching victory from defeat. I'm sure we would have been better than 4-12. I'm not saying we would have been a playoff team but better than we were.

Injuries really hampered us, from losing Dumervil, to the offensive line, to running back, luck was not on our side. With the depth we appear to have, we cannot survive the injury bug this year either. If we are to be competitive we must stay relatively healthy.

[BroncoStud]

Yeah that last game against rivers was really convincing of his QB mentality. For that matter 3 games ahead with 3 to go ring a bell any where.

Please don't talk about jaysus walking on water in DEN.

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Jay doesn't need to walk on water, the Bears gave Denver a 1st rounder AND Kyle Orton for Jay Cutler, I think the perception of those who he has played for tells us that Jay is light years better than Kyle. :laugh:

The only one who isn't using logic here is you.

[Canmore]

Jay doesn't need to walk on water, the Bears gave Denver a 1st rounder AND Kyle Orton for Jay Cutler, I think the perception of those who he has played for tells us that Jay is light years better than Kyle. :laugh:

The only one who isn't using logic here is you.

We got two firsts for Jay.

[Lonestar]

that is a ridiculous thing to say. With Elway as our QB last year we would have won the Jax, Jets, KC, SF, and had a good chance to win AZ and Indy games.

Yes the team stunk last year and Orton was a big part of that stench.

You forgot to add IMHO.

Where I did not think even Elway could have carried that defense and awful OL.
Might have gotten a game or two.
But y'all act like someone said Orton was a HOF qb.

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[Lonestar]

Yes because 8-8 is walking on water. Don't misrepresent what I write just because you're looking for an argument.

Just posting your full Of crap if yiu thought jay lead this team to an 8-8 record that year.

With A 3 game lead with 3 to go all he had to do was lead them to ONE win. And rivers dominated him in the last and final game. Had him so screwed ip in the head I doubt jay will ever beat him again.

That was the kind of leadership Josh was looking for alright a total head case. No wonder jay asked for a trade the day Josh was hired he knew he would not allow him to be reckless with the ball.

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[Lonestar]

To be honest, I don't know what would have happened. I think we would have won at least a few more games. As bad as we were,we had six games where we had the last meaningful drive of the game and we came up short five times. This is what John excelled at, snatching victory from defeat. I'm sure we would have been better than 4-12. I'm not saying we would have been a playoff team but better than we were.
Injuries really hampered us, from losing Dumervil, to the offensive line, to running back, luck was not on our side. With the depth we appear to have, we cannot survive the injury bug this year either. If we are to be competitive we must stay relatively healthy.
A good concise argument that I can't totally disagree with.
Perhaps Elway could have done so but you also have to take into account that all of Johns magic was done mostly at MILE HIGH. Since the new place we have NO 12th man something that other teams feared.
Once again I have to add no one has ever said Orton was a HOF qb just he has never been surrounded with the talent John had around him for most of his career. Specfically the last few years.

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[Lonestar]

Jay doesn't need to walk on water, the Bears gave Denver a 1st rounder AND Kyle Orton for Jay Cutler, I think the perception of those who he has played for tells us that Jay is light years better than Kyle. :laugh:

The only one who isn't using logic here is you.

Actually they gave us 2 firsts and orton for the head case. Think there was something else in the deal. But that was the meat of it.

And Tye great part is we did not have to give him a gazillion dollar contract.

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[Canmore]

Actually they gave us 2 firsts and orton for the head case. Think there was something else in the deal. But that was the meat of it.

And Tye great part is we did not have to give him a gazillion dollar contract.

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Iirc we also got a third and they got our fith which they used on Johnny Knox.

[Tned]

Iirc we also got a third and they got our fith which they used on Johnny Knox.

Correct, and we used the third and another third of our own to get Richard Quinn.

[Lancane]

Correct, and we used the third and another third of our own to get Richard Quinn.

:tsk: can we have a do over of McDaniels' drafts? Please....

[Lonestar]

:tsk: can we have a do over of McDaniels' drafts? Please....

about the same time as when mikeys get a do over..:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[BroncoStud]

Actually they gave us 2 firsts and orton for the head case. Think there was something else in the deal. But that was the meat of it.

And Tye great part is we did not have to give him a gazillion dollar contract.

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I guess the downside of it is that we totally suck now and the Bears are Super Bowl contenders.

[Lancane]

about the same time as when mikeys get a do over..:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I suppose you'd like to give back the two Super Bowl trophies while were at it?

:confused:

[Northman]

I suppose you'd like to give back the two Super Bowl trophies while were at it?

:confused:

Of course he would, Shanahan was never a part of that. Didnt you get the memo? :lol:

[spikerman]

Just posting your full Of crap if yiu thought jay lead this team to an 8-8 record that year.

With A 3 game lead with 3 to go all he had to do was lead them to ONE win. And rivers dominated him in the last and final game. Had him so screwed ip in the head I doubt jay will ever beat him again.

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Wow LS, I'm getting dizzy trying to follow your positions. Didn't you just use your last few posts to argue that the QB shouldn't be held solely responsible for wins and losses? Are you saying it's Cutler's fault that Denver blew the 3 game lead?

wow... just, wow.

[Northman]

Wow LS, I'm getting dizzy trying to follow your positions. Didn't you just use your last few posts to argue that the QB shouldn't be held solely responsible for wins and losses? Are you saying it's Cutler's fault that Denver blew the 3 game lead?

wow... just, wow.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


ooops.

[Juriga72]

Wow LS, I'm getting dizzy trying to follow your positions. Didn't you just use your last few posts to argue that the QB shouldn't be held solely responsible for wins and losses? Are you saying it's Cutler's fault that Denver blew the 3 game lead?

wow... just, wow.

Lets also not forget the Buffalo game.
13 point lead blown- ONLY Orton's defense can be used as a excuse for losing

359 yards passing.....
Out gained them by what 300 yards? and lost...

Oh... And that pesky little drop by Stokes on the last play.

I love how these are only good for orton excuses...As you said... Wow...

[Lonestar]

I guess the downside of it is that we totally suck now and the Bears are Super Bowl contenders.
Jay is on of the most inconsistent qb innthe league.

Do
Not
Kid yourself into believing that jay was the reason for that. If you are honest intellectually you would know it was the defense and special teams that drove that team to and thru the playoffs. jay was along for the ride. Go and look at his game day stats and he is a yo-yo because he is a head case if all goes food he is on the moon if something goes bad his qbr is in the 50s or below.
He is and always was mental midget between the ears in the maturity Dept. Ask phillip rivers.

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[BroncoStud]

Jay is on of the most inconsistent qb innthe league.

Do
Not
Kid yourself into believing that jay was the reason for that. If you are honest intellectually you would know it was the defense and special teams that drove that team to and thru the playoffs. jay was along for the ride. Go and look at his game day stats and he is a yo-yo because he is a head case if all goes food he is on the moon if something goes bad his qbr is in the 50s or below.
He is and always was mental midget between the ears in the maturity Dept. Ask phillip rivers.

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So you are giving Jay NO CREDIT for getting the Bears into the playoffs? Did you actually watch any Chicago games this year? I watched them all, he had a good season and he was a BIG reason they made it to the NFC Championship. Orton NEVER would have gotten that team into the playoffs with that offensive line and with such a tight divisional race.

[Lonestar]

Wow LS, I'm getting dizzy trying to follow your positions. Didn't you just use your last few posts to argue that the QB shouldn't be held solely responsible for wins and losses? Are you saying it's Cutler's fault that Denver blew the 3 game lead?

wow... just, wow.

Did you see that last game in 08 against phillip rivers he was so far in side jays head that the rest of the team could have been perfect and It would have not mattered. Jay was a literal mess.

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[Lonestar]

So you are giving Jay NO CREDIT for getting the Bears into the playoffs? Did you actually watch any Chicago games this year? I watched them all, he had a good season and he was a BIG reason they made it to the NFC Championship. Orton NEVER would have gotten that team into the playoffs with that offensive line and with such a tight divisional race.
It is obvious to everyone that your bromance with jay and your hate of Orton.

Ah now the offensive line is an excuse. Flip flop flip flop.

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[MOtorboat]

JAY CUTLER HAS BEEN GONE FOR TWO YEARS AND SHANAHAN HAS BEEN GONE FOR NEARLY THREE!!!!!.

Ugh...

[BroncoStud]

It is obvious to everyone that your bromance with jay and your hate of Orton.

Ah now the offensive line is an excuse. Flip flop flip flop.

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FACT: Denver trades Cutler to Chicago

FACT: Chicago is in the NFC Championship 2 years later

FACT: Denver is drafting 2 overall, 2 years later

FACT: Orton is being booed and benched for his 2nd straight team

FACT: Cutler converted 48% of his 3rd downs in Denver with 1,900 yards rushing in 2008

FACT: Orton converted 36% of his 3rd downs in Denver with 1,900 yards rushing in 2009

Care to provide any FACTS with your posts of hatred of Cutler? I don't hate Orton I just think he sucks, he's a major downgrade at QB from Cutler.