Acceptance is a key to happiness

[PAINTERDAVE]

I accept that Orton will probably start.

I accept that Orton only won 5 of the last 23 games he started.

I accept that Orton is a free agent soon.

I accept that Orton is more focused on stats than wins.

I accept that this team is not gonna get many wins this rebuilding year.

I EXPECT... that once we go into the tank...

EFX will be more focused on future QB development than a free agents stats.

I HOPE that we beat the raiders on Monday night football..

I EXPECT Orton to fold like a cheap suit under pressure, however.

Acceptance is a key to happiness.


_________________________________________________





Orton has only won 5 of the last 23 games he has played.
He is a free agent when this season is over.
He already asked for a trade... no body wanted him.

He is the epitome of a "stats" QB...
everybody thinks he is great because of his stats..
while he does nothing rsiky to endanger his stats...
the "game manager" label is classic Orton.

He will do nothing risky for us this year..
his focus is on emerging healthy with good stats at the end of this season.
Sure, he would like some wins... but no one knows better than Kyle...
in this rebuilding year we can only expect 4 to 7 wins anyway,

Kyle is not gonna go on record saying....
"I am focused on my future, instead of the team,
and good stats will get me the big payday in 6 months.."

He already botched the Miami trade (a trade he asked for)
with unrealsitic demands...
so we know he has an inflated sense of self worth.

He seriously is NOT gonna want to be here again next season...
with Tebow breathing down his neck for the 3rd year in a row.

Kyle is a Free Agent in waiting... and I dont expect any level of risk from him.
We have seen how he plays already...
falls to the ground when defenders are close....
bad in the red zone when the going gets tough...

I expect more of the same from Kyle...
safe play to get good stats when it is easy..
why would anyone expect different?

Kyle KNOWS better than we.. that the Broncos are not going to the playoffs.

He is used to losing.. eh, what is one more losing season to Kyle?

That is what I am prepared to accept.

Reality.

[broncobryce]

I accept that Orton will probably start.

I accept that Orton only won 5 of the last 23 games he started.

I accept that Orton is a free agent soon.

I accept that Orton is more focused on stats than wins.

I accept that this team is not gonna get many wins this rebuilding year.

I EXPECT... that once we go into the tank...

EFX will be more focused on future QB development than a free agents stats.

I HOPE that we beat the raiders on Monday night football..

I EXPECT Orton to fold like a cheap suit under pressure, however.

Acceptance is a key to happiness.


_________________________________________________





Orton has only won 5 of the last 23 games he has played.
He is a free agent when this season is over.
He already asked for a trade... no body wanted him.

He is the epitome of a "stats" QB...
everybody thinks he is great because of his stats..
while he does nothing rsiky to endanger his stats...
the "game manager" label is classic Orton.

He will do nothing risky for us this year..
his focus is on emerging healthy with good stats at the end of this season.
Sure, he would like some wins... but no one knows better than Kyle...
in this rebuilding year we can only expect 4 to 7 wins anyway,

Kyle is not gonna go on record saying....
"I am focused on my future, instead of the team,
and good stats will get me the big payday in 6 months.."

He already botched the Miami trade (a trade he asked for)
with unrealsitic demands...
so we know he has an inflated sense of self worth.

He seriously is NOT gonna want to be here again next season...
with Tebow breathing down his neck for the 3rd year in a row.

Kyle is a Free Agent in waiting... and I dont expect any level of risk from him.
We have seen how he plays already...
falls to the ground when defenders are close....
bad in the red zone when the going gets tough...

I expect more of the same from Kyle...
safe play to get good stats when it is easy..
why would anyone expect different?

Kyle KNOWS better than we.. that the Broncos are not going to the playoffs.

He is used to losing.. eh, what is one more losing season to Kyle?

That is what I am prepared to accept.

Reality.

No. He's good now all the sudden, havent you heard?

[SR]

I want to win games. That said, I don't give a **** who the QB is.

[Canmore]

Pretty bleak picture you have created Painter.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I have a wait and see attitude, rather than assuming I know right now how the season will turn out. I will not judge now how this team, and how certain players will play this year.

[broncobryce]

I have a wait and see attitude, rather than assuming I know right now how the season will turn out. I will not judge now how this team, and how certain players will play this year.

I hear that. My thing is we've watched Orton play the last two seasons, and he is what he is going into what, his 8th season?
I don't see him changing now, either you have heart or you don't, but everyone has a right to believe what they want.

[topscribe]

He is used to losing.. eh, what is one more losing season to Kyle?


Painter, Kyle has had only one season that was not a winning season . . .

-----

[PAINTERDAVE]

Pretty bleak picture you have created Painter.

Nothing would thrill me more than to watch my Broncos go out and be world beaters.

Nothing would thrill me more than to see Orton lead my Broncos to victory after victory.

Like I said, though...

acceptance is a key to happiness.

I have read al the predictions for this season.

the outside, best scenarios I have read are 8 and 8..
and those are made by blind homers.

Football analysts seem to put us at around 4 to 6 wins...
in this rebuilding year.


new d- line that needs to gel.
new O-line that needs to gel.
New coach.. new new new new.

If we can manage to go 2 and 1 the first 3...

then we face some tough teams who ARE competitive NOW.

If we go.. say...

3 and 5.... with 8 games left.. against TOUGH opponents...

do YOU see Kyle going all out and taking chances and risking his precious stats?
Do you see Kyle flinging himself into a defender for the TD?

Do you really see Kyle's focus on winning games- over safe stats - once the playoffs are out of reach?

[PAINTERDAVE]

Painter, Kyle has had only one season that was not a winning season . . .

-----

But what has he done for us lately?

5 wins out of the last 23 games.

And yes... it is an old adage..
the Coach and QB get credit for the wins and losses.

Kyle did nothing extraordinary in those losses to make me pin them on any one else.

His pick 6 alone..
in our house..
against the Raiders...
our mortal enemies..
in a game we were FAVORED to win..
and tehn he fumbled again..
and then he threw in the towel before the half was even over....
it ws Kyle who kept our defense on the field all day...
they were bad...
but they got plumb worn out since Kyle could not keep the offense on the field.

that game alone makes meturn my back on Kyle Orton.

[topscribe]

But what has he done for us lately?

5 wins out of the last 23 games

In 2009, the team Kyle quarterbacked was 8-7. That is a winning season.

Last year, the team had the worst defense and one of the worst running games
in all of pro football.

In 1990, the Elway-led Broncos finished 5-11, with the #20 defense and #14
running game. Now tell me, was that Elway's record, or did the team have
something to do with that?

I've said it before: If we are going to place the W-L record on one single player,
then perhaps we should be following tennis or golf. Maybe chess or bowling . . .

-----

[broncobryce]

Nothing would thrill me more than to watch my Broncos go out and be world beaters.

Nothing would thrill me more than to see Orton lead my Broncos to victory after victory.

Like I said, though...

acceptance is a key to happiness.

I have read al the predictions for this season.

the outside, best scenarios I have read are 8 and 8..
and those are made by blind homers.

Football analysts seem to put us at around 4 to 6 wins...
in this rebuilding year.


new d- line that needs to gel.
new O-line that needs to gel.
New coach.. new new new new.

If we can manage to go 2 and 1 the first 3...

then we face some tough teams who ARE competitive NOW.

If we go.. say...

3 and 5.... with 8 games left.. against TOUGH opponents...

do YOU see Kyle going all out and taking chances and risking his precious stats?
Do you see Kyle flinging himself into a defender for the TD?

Do you really see Kyle's focus on winning games- over safe stats - once the playoffs are out of reach?

No. I don't even see him finishing the season, he never has.

[BroncoStud]

In 2009, the team Kyle quarterbacked was 8-7. That is a winning season.

Last year, the team had the worst defense and one of the worst running games
in all of pro football.

In 1990, the Elway-led Broncos finished 5-11, with the #20 defense and #14
running game. Now tell me, was that Elway's record, or did the team have
something to do with that?

I've said it before: If we are going to place the W-L record on one single player,
then perhaps we should be following tennis or golf. Maybe chess or bowling . . .

-----

Or maybe we should just get a better starting QB? Seems reasonable to me, 31% on 3rd downs... :rolleyes:

[topscribe]

No. I don't even see him finishing the season, he never has.

Wow, where do you guys get this crap? Have you checked 2005, 2008, 2009?
Who played in week 17 in those years?

-----

[Canmore]

Nothing would thrill me more than to watch my Broncos go out and be world beaters.

Nothing would thrill me more than to see Orton lead my Broncos to victory after victory.

Like I said, though...

acceptance is a key to happiness.

I have read al the predictions for this season.

the outside, best scenarios I have read are 8 and 8..
and those are made by blind homers.

Football analysts seem to put us at around 4 to 6 wins...
in this rebuilding year.


new d- line that needs to gel.
new O-line that needs to gel.
New coach.. new new new new.

If we can manage to go 2 and 1 the first 3...

then we face some tough teams who ARE competitive NOW.

If we go.. say...

3 and 5.... with 8 games left.. against TOUGH opponents...

do YOU see Kyle going all out and taking chances and risking his precious stats?
Do you see Kyle flinging himself into a defender for the TD?

Do you really see Kyle's focus on winning games- over safe stats - once the playoffs are out of reach?

I would hope Kyle is more competitive than you think he is.

Wins, I'm predicting six, five may be more realistic. That said, Kyle may surprise both of us. I'm hoping.

Like I said, pretty bleak picture.

[PAINTERDAVE]

In 2009, the team Kyle quarterbacked was 8-7. That is a winning season.

Last year, the team had the worst defense and one of the worst running games
in all of pro football.

In 1990, the Elway-led Broncos finished 5-11, with the #20 defense and #14
running game. Now tell me, was that Elway's record, or did the team have
something to do with that?

I've said it before: If we are going to place the W-L record on one single player,
then perhaps we should be following tennis or golf. Maybe chess or bowling . . .

-----

Yep .. that was Elways record... and the teams record for that season.

Kyle has won 5 of the last 23 games.

The 6 win run before the bye of 2009 is ancient history.

Last season Kyle won 3 games.
before that... after the bye of 2009..
Kyle went 2 and 8

Kyle is NOT a winner. He is not used to winning.
He is not focused on winning. He is not basing his self worth (future contract) on winning.

Stats are more important to Orton than wins.
He asked for a trade. He is a free agent in waiting.

If the broncos win 6 games this season.... KYLE WILL STILL NOT BE A WINNER.
He knows this. He is heading into this season looking to pad his stats.
His next contract will be based upon stats... the losses will be explained by
-bad defense
-bad running game
-new coach
-rebuilding year

Kyle is NOT CONCERNED with winning.


All these things I accept.

[topscribe]

Yep .. that was Elways record... and the teams record for that season.

Exaclty, my friend . . . exactly . . .

-----

[Northman]

Yep .. that was Elways record... and the teams record for that season.

Kyle has won 5 of the last 23 games.

The 6 win run before the bye of 2009 is ancient history.

Last season Kyle won 3 games.
before that... after the bye of 2009..
Kyle went 2 and 8

Kyle is NOT a winner. He is not used to winning.
he is not focused on winning. He is not basing his self worth (future contract) on winning.

Stats are more important to Orton than wins.
He asked for a trade. He is a free agent in waiting.

If the broncos win 6 games this season.... KYLE WILL STILL NOT BE A WINNER.
He knows this. He is heading into this season looking to pad his stats.


All these things I accept.

You are correct Painter, Orton is not a winner. :lol:

[MOtorboat]

Brady Effin' Quinn!

[SR]

You armchair experts really crack me up.

[BroncoJoe]

Please don't compare Orton to Elway.

tia.

[topscribe]

Please don't compare Orton to Elway.

tia.

Please try to think a bit more deeply than that.

tia

-----

[BroncoJoe]

Please try to think a bit more deeply than that.

tia

-----

That statement can apply to many.

[BroncoStud]

You armchair experts really crack me up.

You one-line insulters don't crack me up. Doesn't take much more than an "armchair expert" to see the obvious.

[topscribe]

That statement can apply to many.

That's true. It wasn't meant to be personal. It was only in the interest of
making a point regarding the attributing of a football team's W-L season to an
individual on that team.

Other than that, how you doin', Joe? Did you take a little hiatus, or have I just
missed you in my own limited lurking?

-----

[Medford Bronco]

The only similarites between Orton and Elway are the both played QB for the Broncos.

One had a gun the other has an average arm.
Orton is an okay qb. Elway is one of the best of all time. Also some of the Denver defenses Elway had in his prime were not exactly world beaters either but he willed this team to the playoffs almost every year.

I do not have a lot of faith in Orton. Sorry he is mediocre. Good if he gets a lot of time. He might do well behind the 1998 Bronco O like like Brister did when Elway was hurt.

[topscribe]

You one-line insulters don't crack me up. Doesn't take much more than an "armchair expert" to see the obvious.

SR makes more sense in one of his one-liners, than you do in your most verbose
of posts, especially on Orton. And he is not an Orton fan . . .

-----

[BroncoJoe]

You armchair experts really crack me up.


You one-line insulters don't crack me up. Doesn't take much more than an "armchair expert" to see the obvious.

I think he was talking about Orton.

:shocked:

[BroncoJoe]

That's true. It wasn't meant to be personal. It was only in the interest of
making a point regarding the attributing of a football team's W-L season to an
individual on that team.

Other than that, how you doin', Joe? Did you take a little hiatus, or have I just
missed you in my own limited lurking?

-----

I read on here frequently - not much to post about that would be all that different from a couple months ago. Can't wait for next Thursday.

[PAINTERDAVE]

It is an old adage in football....

the Coach and the QB get credit for the wins and losses.

Elway went 5 and 11 back in the 90's.

Yep that was Elway's record.

He only had 5 wins.

He has that on his historical record.

John gets credit for that..
same as he gets credit for losing Super Bowls..
and winning 2 superbowls in a row.

Yep.

QB's and Coaches get credit for the records they create.

Reality.

-------------------

Kyle gets credit for winning 5 of the last 23 games, too.

[BroncoStud]

SR makes more sense in one of his one-liners, than you do in your most verbose
of posts, especially on Orton. And he is not an Orton fan . . .

-----

Sure thing... :rolleyes:

Your overly favorable evaluation of and relentless defense of Kyle Orton ON MANY INTERNET MESSAGE BOARDS is something that makes a LOT of sense...

:laugh::laugh:

[DenBronx]

Comparing Orton to the GOAT is blasphemy. :tsk:

[BroncoStud]

I think he was talking about Orton.

:shocked:

It interpreted it as his saying that PainterDave and his evaluation crack him up...

I thought it was pretty spot on, personally.

[topscribe]

It is an old adage in football....

the Coach and the QB get credit for the wins and losses.

Elway went 5 and 11 back in the 90's.

Yep that was Elway's record.

He only had 5 wins.

He has that on his historical record.

John gets credit for that..
same as he gets credit for losing Super Bowls..
and winning 2 superbowls in a row.

Yep.

QB's and Coaches get credit for the records they create.

Reality.

-------------------

Kyle gets credit for winning 5 of the last 23 games, too.

Yes, the QB and coach popularly get the "credit" for the team's record. That
is true. But notice that anyone on football who says that usually will add the
"whether fair or not" qualification.

In other words, in theory, that is an entirely incomplete assessment. While the
QB bears a significant influence on the course of a game - that's the reason
he's the QB - he is not necessarily the last word in its conclusion. It takes
more than just him: A defense and running game come to mind.

I was watching a video just the other day in which Elway himself said that a
QB cannot win a championship without the help of other key parts around him.
He ought to know . . .

-----

[topscribe]

Comparing Orton to the GOAT is blasphemy. :tsk:

Please refer to Post #21.

tia

-----

[Medford Bronco]

Comparing Orton to the GOAT is blasphemy. :tsk:

It is like comparing a Mercedes to a Chevy Chevette.

[MOtorboat]

It is an old adage in football....

the Coach and the QB get credit for the wins and losses.

Elway went 5 and 11 back in the 90's.

Yep that was Elway's record.

He only had 5 wins.

He has that on his historical record.

John gets credit for that..
same as he gets credit for losing Super Bowls..
and winning 2 superbowls in a row.

Yep.

QB's and Coaches get credit for the records they create.

Reality.

-------------------

Kyle gets credit for winning 5 of the last 23 games, too.

Elway was 64-32-1 before that 5-11 season with four playoff appearances and two AFC Championships. It was excusable. Now, I think Bronco fans have, for the most part, overreacted a little bit to one losing season, but you don't want that to continue into year two and year three.

Orton was 29-21 heading into his 3-10 season, so he's still treading water at 32-31, but you can't compare him to Elway, at all.

[topscribe]

Wow. Okay, there's no way I compared Orton to Elway.

But I've seen this before, this juvenile idol worship that interferes with cognitive abilities.

I'm outta here . . . :tsk:

-----

[Canmore]

It is an old adage in football....

the Coach and the QB get credit for the wins and losses.

Elway went 5 and 11 back in the 90's.

Yep that was Elway's record.

He only had 5 wins.

He has that on his historical record.

John gets credit for that..
same as he gets credit for losing Super Bowls..
and winning 2 superbowls in a row.

Yep.

QB's and Coaches get credit for the records they create.

Reality.

-------------------

Kyle gets credit for winning 5 of the last 23 games, too.

Quarterbacks may get to much credit for the wins and losses but it is a quarterback driven league and that is the nature of the beast.

[DenBronx]

Please refer to Post #21.

tia

-----


Please refrain from ever putting Ortons name in the same sentence as.

(Got to start a new sentence)

The greatest Bronco ever, #7.


tia

[DenBronx]

It is like comparing a Mercedes to a Chevy Chevette.

More like a Jet to a bike.

[Medford Bronco]

Quarterbacks may get to much credit for the wins and losses but it is a quarterback driven league and that is the nature of the beast.

Very true but if you have one of the top 5 in the league, Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees or gulp Philip Rivers, you are off to a great start at having a good team IMHO.

Very few teams have won Super Bowls with Mediorce Qbs in the last 15 years or so. Trent Difer and Brad Johnson with tremendous even top Defenses of all time did the trick. Even Rothisberger is an above average QB with a great D most seasons.

[Canmore]

Very true but if you have one of the top 5 in the league, Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees or gulp Philip Rivers, you are off to a great start at having a good team IMHO.

Very few teams have won Super Bowls with Mediorce Qbs in the last 15 years or so. Trent Difer and Brad Johnson with tremendous even top Defenses of all time did the trick. Even Rothisberger is an above average QB with a great D most seasons.

All true. That's why we are looking for one. Unfortunately, the player we have that many are hoping for doesn't look to be starting.

[Agent of Orange]

What I accept is that we're customers as much as we are fans and that sometimes the angry customer needs to have a louder voice than the loyal fan.

[Agent of Orange]

BTW, its not merely enough to win. If the team is winning in spite of Orton, there should be scrutiny.

[Medford Bronco]

BTW, its not merely enough to win. If the team is winning in spite of Orton, there should be scrutiny.

That sounded like Trent Dilfer for the 2000 Ravens, He won the Super Bowl and was gone the next year and Elvis Grbac replaced him. They still made the playoffs but he was gone soon thereafter too.

[jlarsiii]

Neat, another Orton hate thread. Haven't seen enough of these threads lately. :coffee:

[Agent of Orange]

That sounded like Trent Dilfer for the 2000 Ravens, He won the Super Bowl and was gone the next year and Elvis Grbac replaced him. They still made the playoffs but he was gone soon thereafter too.

Yeah, there are a lot of examples of teams that won while not emphasizing the QB.

[Juriga72]

Painter, Kyle has had only one season that was not a winning season . . .

-----

Uh....

Correct me if I am wrong here....




BUT.... A NFL season is 16 games long.

Not 15 games long
Not 14 games long.
Not 13.5 games long
Not 3 games long.........right?

SO please can we say the truth about Kyle Orton.

"He has never finished a NFL season, and He has won MORE than 8 games ONCE.....6 years ago"

Even a 1st grader would know that 8-8 is NOT a winning season

[BroncoStud]

Yeah, there are a lot of examples of teams that won while not emphasizing the QB.


The rules have progressively been favorable towards passing offenses. The 2000 Ravens had arguably the greatest defense of all-time, it's right up there with the Bears of 1985. On top of that they had a great running game that season with Jamal Lewis. Trent Dilfer was awful, he was horribly ineffective and scoring points and moving the chains, but the defense was so stacked they were able to win many games without a passing TD, some without even an offensive TD that season.

It isn't the norm. In today's NFL you need an elite playmaker at the QB position. Without Aaron Rodgers the Packers don't sniff the Super Bowl last season, and the Steelers don't get there without Big Ben.

[Agent of Orange]

The rules have progressively been favorable towards passing offenses. The 2000 Ravens had arguably the greatest defense of all-time, it's right up there with the Bears of 1985. On top of that they had a great running game that season with Jamal Lewis. Trent Dilfer was awful, he was horribly ineffective and scoring points and moving the chains, but the defense was so stacked they were able to win many games without a passing TD, some without even an offensive TD that season.

It isn't the norm. In today's NFL you need an elite playmaker at the QB position. Without Aaron Rodgers the Packers don't sniff the Super Bowl last season, and the Steelers don't get there without Big Ben.

I noticed you carefully chose your words by going with "playmaker". That was smart. Because we all know that Roethlisberger is not in the same class as Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, and Rodgers as a passer. But the term "playmaker" does apply to him. Still though, what you're saying about the rule changes has been a bigger benefit to the passing QBs (Manning et al). Roethlisbergers style of play would have probably translated across the ages. He's kind of the opposite of the QB that needs to be protected by the whistle, conversely, Brady gets a flag by pointing at Terrell Suggs. Its not a certainty that Suggs could even bring Roethlisberger down most of the time. But having said that, Pittsburgh is better equipped to win without Roethlisberger than the Colts or Saints if they lose Manning or Brees.

[SR]

You one-line insulters don't crack me up. Doesn't take much more than an "armchair expert" to see the obvious.

:yawn:

[SR]

SR makes more sense in one of his one-liners, than you do in your most verbose
of posts, especially on Orton. And he is not an Orton fan . . .

-----

I am not an Orton fan at all and thank you for the complement.

[SR]

Sure thing... :rolleyes:

Your overly favorable evaluation of and relentless defense of Kyle Orton ON MANY INTERNET MESSAGE BOARDS is something that makes a LOT of sense...

:laugh::laugh:

Seriously bro, who cares who is a fan of who when we're all fans of the same team? If Orton leads the Broncos to a 10-6 record this year, I'm sure you'll be one of the first ones to sing his praises. Quit trying to gain credibility by knocking on someone because they're a fan of someone you don't like.

[Agent of Orange]

Seriously bro, who cares who is a fan of who when we're all fans of the same team? If Orton leads the Broncos to a 10-6 record this year, I'm sure you'll be one of the first ones to sing his praises. Quit trying to gain credibility by knocking on someone because they're a fan of someone you don't like.

That's not a cetainty. In certain camps, the board will likely become more adversarial if the team is 10-6 in spite of Orton but the overall mood will lighten up because people may be less upset with Orton's shortcomings...until they cost Denver in a playoff game.

[BroncoStud]

Seriously bro, who cares who is a fan of who when we're all fans of the same team? If Orton leads the Broncos to a 10-6 record this year, I'm sure you'll be one of the first ones to sing his praises. Quit trying to gain credibility by knocking on someone because they're a fan of someone you don't like.

Not me man, I won't stop raining on Orton's parade until he is gone. He never should have been here in the first place. Who cares about credibility, it's pretty obvious someone trying to claim Orton is a GOOD QB really isn't worried too much about credibility in the first place, right?

[Northman]

Neat, another Orton hate thread. Haven't seen enough of these threads lately. :coffee:

http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/7m/jw/bs/eikillyou1.jpg

[MasterShake]

I'm having flashbacks to when Plummer was here with all this crap. I've said it before, I'll say it again - whoever is lining up behind center on Monday Night Football is the one I'm gonna support. I'm gonna trust Elway and Fox to make the decision that puts the best product on the field.

I still like the idea of Tebow starting, and who knows he could light it up the rest of the way in preseason and training camp and earn the starting job. Quinn could do the same thing. Worst case scenario he has to sit and learn another year and he is practically guaranteed to start next year (which is also the season we switch back to our orange jerseys, how cool is that?).

I've had it in my head that this is going to be a 2-3 year project, and the next year is a win win in my opinion for any of the scenarios:

1. Neckbeard starts and Tebow gets another year to improve. Hopefully the rest of the team is better (and I don't see how it can't be) and we scratch out another 3-5 wins, especially at home.

2. Tebow starts because he earned the job. We have an option QB threat in a run happy offense, but probably just have an average to decent season. If we do better, great. Worse? Well time to move up and get a new QB.

After the threat of the season losing games with the lockout, I'm just happy to have my Sundays, Mondays, and sometimes Thursdays back this fall. I'll be rooting for the Broncos regardless. And I'm also gonna cuss at the T.V. and at games when they screw up. :salute:

[SR]

That's not a cetainty. In certain camps, the board will likely become more adversarial if the team is 10-6 in spite of Orton but the overall mood will lighten up because people may be less upset with Orton's shortcomings...until they cost Denver in a playoff game.

I'd rather Denver make it to the playoffs with Orton and lose a playoff game than miss the playoffs. If Orton takes Denver to the playoffs and loses...then so what? Improvement is what we're all after right? I'd be absolutely okay with Denver having a Trent Dilfer situation with Orton.

[Northman]

I'd rather Denver make it to the playoffs with Orton and lose a playoff game than miss the playoffs. If Orton takes Denver to the playoffs and loses...then so what? Improvement is what we're all after right? I'd be absolutely okay with Denver having a Trent Dilfer situation with Orton.

Thats if we even had a defense capable of that. Year in and year out i see you guys try to claim we are going to be so much better on defense yet we continue to fail. When it happens it will be a great day but with new players, new scheme, team chemistry dont count on this team being the 2000 Ravens. Orton would need and EXCEPTIONAL defense to achieve the playoffs.

[Agent of Orange]

I'd rather Denver make it to the playoffs with Orton and lose a playoff game than miss the playoffs. If Orton takes Denver to the playoffs and loses...then so what?

It's possible that Denver would be taking him to the playoffs and not as you stated.


Improvement is what we're all after right?

You're confusing the issue. Its possible for the team to improve overall because they can getting a running game and generate a pass rush that leads to turnovers and the defense getting off the field on third downs. But what does that have to do with Orton? It's still possible to look at the teams components and identify flaws and areas that need upgrades. Orton wouldnt be off limits.


I'd be absolutely okay with Denver having a Trent Dilfer situation with Orton.

That's not really being realistic. Theres nothing to suggest that Denver's defense is on that level. And with that being the case, its reasonable to suggest that more will be required of Denver's QB in 2011 than was required of Dilfer in 2000.

[SR]

Thats if we even had a defense capable of that. Year in and year out i see you guys try to claim we are going to be so much better on defense yet we continue to fail. When it happens it will be a great day but with new players, new scheme, team chemistry dont count on this team being the 2000 Ravens. Orton would need and EXCEPTIONAL defense to achieve the playoffs.

I never claimed anything.

[SR]

It's possible that Denver would be taking him to the playoffs and not as you stated.



You're confusing the issue. Its possible for the team to improve overall because they can getting a running game and generate a pass rush that leads to turnovers and the defense getting off the field on third downs. But what does that have to do with Orton? It's still possible to look at the teams components and identify flaws and areas that need upgrades. Orton wouldnt be off limits.



That's not really being realistic. Theres nothing to suggest that Denver's defense is on that level. And with that being the case, its reasonable to suggest that more will be required of Denver's QB in 2011 than was required of Dilfer in 2000.

I agree with you. And I wasn't saying I thought Denver's defense was good enough to recreate the 2000 Ravens' situation. I was merely stating I'd be okay with that situation because someone else had made a comment about it.

[Agent of Orange]

I agree with you. And I wasn't saying I thought Denver's defense was good enough to recreate the 2000 Ravens' situation. I was merely stating I'd be okay with that situation because someone else had made a comment about it.

Well, one minor flaw with your 2000 Ravens analogy is that they started the season with Tony Banks as their starter and then inserted Dilfer part way through the season because Dilfer gave them the best chance to win once they started playing live games during the season. Orton might actually be Tony Banks in your analogy.

[SR]

Well, one minor flaw with your 2000 Ravens analogy is that they started the season with Tony Banks as their starter and then inserted Dilfer part way through the season because Dilfer gave them the best chance to win once they started playing live games during the season. Orton might actually be Tony Banks in your analogy.

Now you're reading way too deep in to what I'm saying. I'm not making any analogies or comparisons with the 2011 Broncos and 2000 Ravens. I was commenting on what someone else said. I don't expect Denver to do better than 7-9 this season. All I was saying was the if, hypothetically, that happened with Denver I would be okay with it. For Pete's sake...

[Northman]

Well, one minor flaw with your 2000 Ravens analogy is that they started the season with Tony Banks as their starter and then inserted Dilfer part way through the season because Dilfer gave them the best chance to win once they started playing live games during the season. Orton might actually be Tony Banks in your analogy.

Nah.

Banks was more like Plummer, very careless with the football and took too many risks. Orton is more conservative, more Dilfer like who wasnt asked to carry the team but allow the defense to carry the load. The problem with our situation is we dont that kind of defense to where Orton can be a Dilfer.

[Lonestar]

No. I don't even see him finishing the season, he never has.

While I have not followed every game he has played IT seems to me that it was not his choice not to play every game of the season..

IIRC he was pulled a couple of years so the coaches could play with a new toy, not because he chose to set, or was injured and not able to come back into the game..

They wanted to play with the newbie to see what they had after the hopes of playoffs were gone..

[SR]

Nah.

Banks was more like Plummer, very careless with the football and took too many risks. Orton is more conservative, more Dilfer like who wasnt asked to carry the team but allow the defense to carry the load. The problem with our situation is we dont that kind of defense to where Orton can be a Dilfer.

I also feel that Orton is very easy to game plan against. You know he doesn't get it down the field very well or very accurately, so that allows the defense to pressure the QB more. Orton does not perform well under pressure at all. He goes down when the wind hits him wrong. That's my biggest problem with him. I don't mind that he doesn't take a lot of risks because he takes pretty good care of the ball generally. He doesn't throw a ton of interceptions and he doesn't fumble often. He isn't going to win games for us when the game is on the line, but if our defense is good enough to keep the other team's offense from scoring a ton of points, unlike last season, I feel like Orton does give the Broncos a good enough chance to win games.

[Lancane]

I agree with you. And I wasn't saying I thought Denver's defense was good enough to recreate the 2000 Ravens' situation. I was merely stating I'd be okay with that situation because someone else had made a comment about it.

I think there was a time when that would have been acceptable Red, but I think that time has come and gone. Elway spoiled the fanbase, for over a decade and a half we had one of the greatest quarterbacks to have ever played the game. We saw the disgruntledness begin soon after, some didn't like Griese, some didn't like Plummer...it wasn't till we drafted Cutler that the majority of the fandom mellowed and became satisfied with that position, we had our next big-armed, franchise quarterback. Then boom...he's traded and we're given Orton who was never going to get a fair shake in Denver, I knew it and so did many others. We didn't want him, we never wanted to see Cutler leave either. Quite honestly, the trading of Cutler was worse then trading Marshall or Hillis with the fanbase, though Hillis is a very close second.

I said on another thread that Orton is a reminder that we once had Cutler, he's a reminder of McDaniels and all the bullshit he pulled when he was here. It would have been far better if he actually tried to replace Cutler with a franchise-esque quarterback in the draft, such as Sanchez, Bradford or so on, but he didn't and the mediocrity of those he added was not lost to the majority. Denver could become the 2000 Ravens and still we would have a majority that remained unsatisfied because we lacked a franchise quarterback, we were at one time considered a solid defensive team, but for the past three decades we've been better offensively and it's not that easy to switch, and still we see more success for the likes of New England and New York (J) who are better balanced...

At this point and time, the only way I see the fanbase mellowing is when we have a true franchise quarterback under center, be it Tebow or Quinn, or even someone from this upcoming draft, hell we had fans hoping to draft Gabbert this past draft with our pick, and I don't think the team is satisfied either, they want their own Elway as well.

[Northman]

While I have not followed every game he has played IT seems to me that it was not his choice not to play every game of the season..

IIRC he was pulled a couple of years so the coaches could play with a new toy, not because he chose to set, or was injured and not able to come back into the game..

They wanted to play with the newbie to see what they had after the hopes of playoffs were gone..

You apparently havent followed him enough because he was benched in favor of Rex Grossman in 05' right before the playoffs.

[DenBronx]

While I have not followed every game he has played IT seems to me that it was not his choice not to play every game of the season..

IIRC he was pulled a couple of years so the coaches could play with a new toy, not because he chose to set, or was injured and not able to come back into the game..

They wanted to play with the newbie to see what they had after the hopes of playoffs were gone..

Chicago did that during their superbowl run. Rex was injured early in the year and I think Orton won them 8 games to help get to the playoffs. That is of course when Chicagos defense was the best in the NFL. But all along the coaches said once Rex was healed he would play immediately and he came back in time for the playoffs and Orton was benched.

[Lonestar]

You apparently havent followed him enough because he was benched in favor of Rex Grossman in 05' right before the playoffs.

IIRC he was benched due to injury he was not benched for poor play....

BUT what does is matter Y'all hate the guy so any commentary is moot..

[Agent of Orange]

Nah.

Banks was more like Plummer, very careless with the football and took too many risks. Orton is more conservative, more Dilfer like who wasnt asked to carry the team but allow the defense to carry the load. The problem with our situation is we dont that kind of defense to where Orton can be a Dilfer.

I wasnt even talking about their styles of play.

[Agent of Orange]

IIRC he was benched due to injury he was not benched for poor play....

BUT what does is matter Y'all hate the guy so any commentary is moot..

This is not correct...just like most of your posts that I see.

[Northman]

IIRC he was benched due to injury he was not benched for poor play....

BUT what does is matter Y'all hate the guy so any commentary is moot..

Nah, i dont hate Orton. Stated enough times but you just choose ignore it because you cant handle debate.

[Agent of Orange]

Chicago did that during their superbowl run. Rex was injured early in the year and I think Orton won them 8 games to help get to the playoffs. That is of course when Chicagos defense was the best in the NFL. But all along the coaches said once Rex was healed he would play immediately and he came back in time for the playoffs and Orton was benched.

Youre confusing the years. The year that Orton subbed in for Grossman, he started 15 games and then Rex came back and started in the playoffs. That was 2005. Then the next year, Orton didnt even play and that was the year Chicago made it to the SB.

[DenBronx]

I think there was a time when that would have been acceptable Red, but I think that time has come and gone. Elway spoiled the fanbase, for over a decade and a half we had one of the greatest quarterbacks to have ever played the game. We saw the disgruntledness begin soon after, some didn't like Griese, some didn't like Plummer...it wasn't till we drafted Cutler that the majority of the fandom mellowed and became satisfied with that position, we had our next big-armed, franchise quarterback. Then boom...he's traded and we're given Orton who was never going to get a fair shake in Denver, I knew it and so did many others. We didn't want him, we never wanted to see Cutler leave either. Quite honestly, the trading of Cutler was worse then trading Marshall or Hillis with the fanbase, though Hillis is a very close second.

I said on another thread that Orton is a reminder that we once had Cutler, he's a reminder of McDaniels and all the bullshit he pulled when he was here. It would have been far better if he actually tried to replace Cutler with a franchise-esque quarterback in the draft, such as Sanchez, Bradford or so on, but he didn't and the mediocrity of those he added was not lost to the majority. Denver could become the 2000 Ravens and still we would have a majority that remained unsatisfied because we lacked a franchise quarterback, we were at one time considered a solid defensive team, but for the past three decades we've been better offensively and it's not that easy to switch, and still we see more success for the likes of New England and New York (J) who are better balanced...

At this point and time, the only way I see the fanbase mellowing is when we have a true franchise quarterback under center, be it Tebow or Quinn, or even someone from this upcoming draft, hell we had fans hoping to draft Gabbert this past draft with our pick, and I don't think the team is satisfied either, they want their own Elway as well.



Thats pretty much spot on Lancane.

Sometimes you dont know what you got till it's gone...


...or traded away. :laugh:

[PAINTERDAVE]

IIRC he was benched due to injury he was not benched for poor play....

BUT what does is matter Y'all hate the guy so any commentary is moot..

I was not trying to start a "hate orton" thrread.

I was stating my acceptance that he will start.

I outlined what I expect might very well happen...
and I dont think Orton is gonna be here for long.

Hey.. if he proves me wrong..
and becomes the winner/player he has never been before..
I will like that a lot.

I'm out.
Got a ticket to see 38 Special....

"So hold on loosely...
dont let go...
if you cling to tightly...
your gonna lose it..
your gonna loose control..."


have a great Sunday night everybody!

Rock on! :salute:

[BroncoNut]

I thought Orton started out pretty strong last year and then just blew his wad for the season at or around game 10. I won't base my expectations at this time on how he did toward the end of the season. I think alot of people here are doing a little bit too much of that. I thought the whole team sucked pretty much and that Orton may not look so Ortonary in a different system. That's my positive thinking. On the negative side, it will be what PD predicts in the op

[Lonestar]

I was not trying to start a "hate orton" thrread.

I was stating my acceptance that he will start.

I outlined what I expect might very well happen...
and I dont think Orton is gonna be here for long.

Hey.. if he proves me wrong..
and becomes the winner/player he has never been before..
I will like that a lot.

I'm out.
Got a ticket to see 38 Special....

"So hold on loosely...
dont let go...
if you cling to tightly...
your gonna lose it..
your gonna loose control..."


have a great Sunday night everybody!

Rock on! :salute:

MY post was not directed at you only those that hate the kid for a multitude of reasons starting with he is not jay.

I accepted the fact he was going to be our starter long ago..

With everyone calling Tebow a 3-4 year project I suspected that UNLESS something drastic happened like Orton being traded that Orton would be the starter this year.

Anyone thinking that those 3 games last year were good enough to deem him the starter this year well they are not thinking with a full deck.

We all know that he is going to take time to bring online and up to NFL speed..

I happen to think he will be outstanding QB perhaps not and Elite guy but certainly great enough to win us a couple of rings.

But that does not mean it is going to happen next week.. it took JOhn how many years to do it..

I hate the fact we will likely get nothing in return for Orton after the season.. But am ok with that as long as Tebow is brought along slowly..

[Lonestar]

I thought Orton started out pretty strong last year and then just blew his wad for the season at or around game 10. I won't base my expectations at this time on how he did toward the end of the season. I think alot of people here are doing a little bit too much of that. I thought the whole team sucked pretty much and that Orton may not look so Ortonary in a different system. That's my positive thinking. On the negative side, it will be what PD predicts in the op

Well there you go thinking.. :salute::salute:

Prepare for flaming..:laugh::laugh:

[Agent of Orange]

MY post was not directed at you only those that hate the kid for a multitude of reasons starting with he is not jay.

I accepted the fact he was going to be our starter long ago..

With everyone calling Tebow a 3-4 year project I suspected that UNLESS something drastic happened like Orton being traded that Orton would be the starter this year.

Anyone thinking that those 3 games last year were good enough to deem him the starter this year well they are not thinking with a full deck.

We all know that he is going to take time to bring online and up to NFL speed..

I happen to think he will be outstanding QB perhaps not and Elite guy but certainly great enough to win us a couple of rings.

But that does not mean it is going to happen next week.. it took JOhn how many years to do it..

I hate the fact we will likely get nothing in return for Orton after the season.. But am ok with that as long as Tebow is brought along slowly..

You are the last person that should ever be commenting on the lucidness of others.

[SR]

I wish we hadn't drafted Tebow.

[Lancane]

I thought Orton started out pretty strong last year and then just blew his wad for the season at or around game 10. I won't base my expectations at this time on how he did toward the end of the season. I think alot of people here are doing a little bit too much of that. I thought the whole team sucked pretty much and that Orton may not look so Ortonary in a different system. That's my positive thinking. On the negative side, it will be what PD predicts in the op

Actually Nut, last season I defended Orton's play at the beginning of the season, I think my old friend Top forgot about that. At that time Orton wasn't playing to win, but he sure the hell wasn't playing to lose - but no more could have really been asked of him because he is who he is. Did I begin to like him or the ideal of him being here longer? No, but I also found the criticism of him 'not playing better' asinine because he is not a franchise quarterback, he will not lift the team on his shoulders and carry them to the finish line, he is Trent Dilfer 2.0.

Orton isn't exciting, he's not the type of quarterback that will move the ball against great odds and win the game with a minute or two remaining on the clock, his few wins like that were flukes. He can run an offense successfully, but he's not one to count on winning, rather he needs a team around him to win and even then they can not count on him to be more then he is. He's dull, he has no fire or passion, he doesn't instill confidence of making things happen...he just is. And for some that might be okay, but I don't want an okay quarterback, I don't want mediocrity...and at times, that lack of passion and energy that is needed for a big play and to make something happen is missed because it changes the outcome of games.

[Lancane]

I wish we hadn't drafted Tebow.

Actually, it has nothing to do with Tebow Red, that is the biggest flaw in the reasoning of those who support Orton.

I don't care if Tebow is a bust, I don't care if Quinn get's what some feel is a fair shot...what I care about is that the team not accept mediocre, middle of the road players at key positions, particularly at quarterback. If we draft Blakely or Lindley in the upcoming draft, then my hopes will go with them to be that next franchise quarterback, Tebow right now is the hopes of those who desperately want a franchise capable quarterback, as for me...I have my doubts about Tebow, but I would also like the kid to get a fair shot, the same with Quinn. But I certainly don't want to wait two or three years to get the future quarterback of this franchise in the draft if neither of those two are not it.

[MOtorboat]

I wish we hadn't drafted Tebow.

Amen. And it will probably end up being McDaniels' worst move.

[Lancane]

Amen. And it will probably end up being McDaniels' worst move.

There is a chance, though the 'Tebowmaniacs' won't admit it that Tebow could well end up being just that.

If McDaniels would have drafted Sanchez it wouldn't be so, if he would have traded up for Bradford it wouldn't be so. Drafting the most controversial project quarterback in the first round to be the heir apparent to Cutler, yeah that is not exactly going to sit well, particularly if he can not be molded into an pro style quarterback or if it will take not a season or two, but several in order to do so.

That's why I said that EFX was not smart in their handling of the Orton trade, they needed to keep it quiet, and if they didn't want to trade him - they should have never let the press know they planned to start Tebow or should have traded Tebow outright before his value came into question and slid.

[MOtorboat]

You keep talking about Sanchez as if Denver was in a position to get him, I don't get it...He was drafted well before Denver picked...

[spikerman]

Amen. And it will probably end up being McDaniels' worst move.

I don't know about that. There are so many atrocious moves to choose from.

[BroncoStud]

While I have not followed every game he has played IT seems to me that it was not his choice not to play every game of the season..

IIRC he was pulled a couple of years so the coaches could play with a new toy, not because he chose to set, or was injured and not able to come back into the game..

They wanted to play with the newbie to see what they had after the hopes of playoffs were gone..

Attendance was going to be NIL at Invesco if the Broncos didn't start Tebow those last 3 games and they knew it.

Orton's benching had NOTHING to do with him being "injured" as he himself said he was just fine and throwing 70 yard bombs in practice (sure :laugh:)...

It was a commercial and morale move to put Tebow in the lineup.

[Lancane]

You keep talking about Sanchez as if Denver was in a position to get him, I don't get it...He was drafted well before Denver picked...

We had two first round picks we used one to get Moreno and the other to draft Ayers, and we traded away another first (from the following year) for a second round pick in order to get a scrub corner. We had more then enough to manipulate the draft for a top quarterback, so don't fool yourself Mo.

And I should add, have Moreno, Ayers and Smith proven worth the picks used to acquire them?

[BroncoStud]

We had two first round picks we used one to get Moreno and the other to draft Ayers, and we traded away another first (from the following year) for a second round pick in order to get a scrub corner. We had more then enough to manipulate the draft for a top quarterback, so don't fool yourself Mo.

And I should add, have Moreno, Ayers and Smith proven worth the picks used to acquire them?

I think most of us would trade all 3 of those scrubs for a franchise QB. I know I would.

[LawDog]

Painter, Kyle has had only one season that was not a winning season . . .

-----

Kyle has played in exactly how many playoff games? Finishing a season above .500 and missing the playoffs is a losing season - at least in my book.

[SR]

Quit being such a hussy.

[LawDog]

You keep talking about Sanchez as if Denver was in a position to get him, I don't get it...He was drafted well before Denver picked...

McDaniel's was slinging up and down the draft board so much my neck was cramping watching it. If he would have wanted to go up and get Sanchez, he could have - would just have been a matter of what he would have had to pay to do it...

[Slick]

I'm glad he didn't get sanchez. I think he's the reason they're o for 2 in the last two afccg.

[LawDog]

I'm glad he didn't get sanchez. I think he's the reason they're o for 2 in the last two afccg.

Because actually getting to the AFC championship game would be, ya know, horrible?

[hamrob]

In 2009, the team Kyle quarterbacked was 8-7. That is a winning season.

Last year, the team had the worst defense and one of the worst running games
in all of pro football.

In 1990, the Elway-led Broncos finished 5-11, with the #20 defense and #14
running game. Now tell me, was that Elway's record, or did the team have
something to do with that?

I've said it before: If we are going to place the W-L record on one single player,
then perhaps we should be following tennis or golf. Maybe chess or bowling . . .

-----This is one of the worst posts I think I've ever read. Just how far will the Orto aplogists take it?

When Elway retired he was the winningest QB of all time. Comparing him to Orton is like comparing a grafitti artist to Michelangelo! Really?

Orton is a good passer with limited atheletic ability. He will do well between the twenties on 1st and 2nd downs. He folds when the pressure is on. He's competent, but he is hardly a winner. And for all those fools that would argue Orton had a winning record prior to coming here, the Bears field one of the best defenses in the league year in and year out. Big whoop.

[MOtorboat]

We had two first round picks we used one to get Moreno and the other to draft Ayers, and we traded away another first (from the following year) for a second round pick in order to get a scrub corner. We had more then enough to manipulate the draft for a top quarterback, so don't fool yourself Mo.

And I should add, have Moreno, Ayers and Smith proven worth the picks used to acquire them?

A.) We were not in a position to draft Sanchez.

B,) Sanchez sucks at reading defenses, which is what McDaniels' offenses are built on.

C.) Moreno is worth the pick. Ayers is undetermined and Smith is a no.

D.) Why didn't you add Tebow to said list?

[Lancane]

I'm glad he didn't get sanchez. I think he's the reason they're o for 2 in the last two afccg.

Well his coach is not the easiest to play for, and let's face it...at least they've gone to two AFCCGs' whilst we've been at the bottom of the league!

;)

[TXBRONC]

I don't know about that. There are so many atrocious moves to choose from.

A smorgasbord of atrocious moves. :nod:

[chazoe60]

It gets a little old to hear how the poor record was none of Orton's doing. Especially when you factor in that we had the ball late in 6 games with a chance to tie or win and won 1 of those games. The defense wasn't on the field. Few teams run late in games down by eight points or fewer, so we can't put much of it on the lack of run game.

One of those games was a horrible snap (Jets) but when you factor in a >40% completion rate for the game I think it's fair to say Orton had a big hand in that loss


What bothers me personally is that I truly believe with a large number of other NFL QBs we would have won at least two and probably more of those games.

A better QB wins the Jax, SF, KC, Jets and I think probably would have had a good shot of winning both AZ and Indy (1-12 in the RZ for Orton IIRC) games.

Orton wasn't the main problem fir sure but an upgrade (not hard considering Orton is probably somewhere between 20 and 25 ad a starting NFL QB) would have undoubtedly won more games.

Can't wait til we have an actual franchise QB or at least someone close instead of a guy who is blatantly lacking in the most major areas a franchise QB Excels in.

[Agent of Orange]

It gets a little old to hear how the poor record was none of Orton's doing. Especially when you factor in that we had the ball late in 6 games with a chance to tie or win and won 1 of those games. The defense wasn't on the field. Few teams run late in games down by eight points or fewer, so we can't put much of it on the lack of run game.

One of those games was a horrible snap (Jets) but when you factor in a >40% completion rate for the game I think it's fair to say Orton had a big hand in that loss


What bothers me personally is that I truly believe with a large number of other NFL QBs we would have won at least two and probably more of those games.

A better QB wins the Jax, SF, KC, Jets and I think probably would have had a good shot of winning both AZ and Indy (1-12 in the RZ for Orton IIRC) games.

Orton wasn't the main problem fir sure but an upgrade (not hard considering Orton is probably somewhere between 20 and 25 ad a starting NFL QB) would have undoubtedly won more games.

Can't wait til we have an actual franchise QB or at least someone close instead of a guy who is blatantly lacking in the most major areas a franchise QB Excels in.


Or put another way, when Tebow played late in the season and we would come back late in games when they seemed loss, it was this incredibly foreign idea...like it's something other teams do. You're like, "Wait! What's this. We can come from behind?"

[Lancane]

A.) We were not in a position to draft Sanchez.

B,) Sanchez sucks at reading defenses, which is what McDaniels' offenses are built on.

C.) Moreno is worth the pick. Ayers is undetermined and Smith is a no.

D.) Why didn't you add Tebow to said list?

A) We could have moved in to the same said position... "Do you not understand the words coming out of my fingertips?" We had the ability, sometimes you trade up to get the players you want (See Tebow).

B) Sanchez doesn't suck (In your opinion he does), I happen to think highly of the kid as do many others who are far more qualified then you of making that assessment. Within two seasons he's not only been a solid quarterback but led his team deep into the playoffs both years...and he's getting better. Plus he's finding success in what is not in the most sound environment, hell his head coach is trying to pick fights with the entire league!

C) Moreno was not worth the pick, especially when you take into consideration that he is better in the ZBS based offensive scheme, McDaniels drafted him whilst planning to change to a power blocking scheme...right there shows McDaniels grand intelligence. Ayers is what he's always been, a strong side defensive end who excels at stopping the run, he's not a pass rushing end and was drafted to be a 3-4 rush linebacker...strike two for McDaniels intelligence, well far more like strike ten, but obviously his apologists don't thinks so.

D) I don't know how G'damn many times I have to say I am not a Tebowmaniac and I'm sure in the hell not an Ortonite. Fact is that I've said before that Tebow was a project quarterback drafted by McDaniels in order to save his job. McDaniels tried to trade up for Bradford, he actually looked at McCoy, there is no way in hell that he passed on them because he felt Tebow was the better all around quarterback, but he also knew the fans wanted a franchise quarterback. IMHO, I believe he wanted to trade Orton, start Quinn get him up to par then trade him and then, maybe then start Tebow. The ruse backfired in his face and the long-shot bet did not payoff.

[TXBRONC]

A.) We were not in a position to draft Sanchez.

B,) Sanchez sucks at reading defenses, which is what McDaniels' offenses are built on.

C.) Moreno is worth the pick. Ayers is undetermined and Smith is a no.

D.) Why didn't you add Tebow to said list?

Sanchez is second year quarterback that has gotten to the AFCCG in as many years and he sucks? What has Orton done?

[Agent of Orange]

A) We could have moved in to the same said position... "Do you not understand the words coming out of my fingertips?" We had the ability, sometimes you trade up to get the players you want (See Tebow).

It's not the same. Yeah we used picks to move up to get Tebow but we had also accumulated picks by trading down. Trading into the late first isn't the same as trading into the top 10 like the Jets did.


B) Sanchez doesn't suck (In your opinion he does), I happen to think highly of the kid as do many others who are far more qualified then you of making that assessment. Within two seasons he's not only been a solid quarterback but led his team deep into the playoffs both years...and he's getting better. Plus he's finding success in what is not in the most sound environment, hell his head coach is trying to pick fights with the entire league!

The jury is still out on Sanchez and those people who project QBs are hardly correct all the time.


C) Moreno was not worth the pick, especially when you take into consideration that he is better in the ZBS based offensive scheme, McDaniels drafted him whilst planning to change to a power blocking scheme...right there shows McDaniels grand intelligence. Ayers is what he's always been, a strong side defensive end who excels at stopping the run, he's not a pass rushing end and was drafted to be a 3-4 rush linebacker...strike two for McDaniels intelligence, well far more like strike ten, but obviously his apologists don't thinks so.

I agree that Moreno wasnt worth the pick but I disagree that he's meant for the ZBS system. Nothing about Moreno's running style says one cut and go. He dances around too much. He's hardly a decisive runner.

I think if anything, McDaniels thinking Moreno would work had more to do with Moreno catching the ball out of the backfield in his pass happy offense. He wanted a guy who could block and catch and ended up with a guy who's not the best runner.


D) I don't know how G'damn many times I have to say I am not a Tebowmaniac and I'm sure in the hell not an Ortonite. Fact is that I've said before that Tebow was a project quarterback drafted by McDaniels in order to save his job. McDaniels tried to trade up for Bradford, he actually looked at McCoy, there is no way in hell that he passed on them because he felt Tebow was the better all around quarterback, but he also knew the fans wanted a franchise quarterback. IMHO, I believe he wanted to trade Orton, start Quinn get him up to par then trade him and then, maybe then start Tebow. The ruse backfired in his face and the long-shot bet did not payoff.

I wouldnt rule out the front office being involved in the decision to draft Tebow. Tebow is a shot in the arm as far as cash flow goes.

[Lancane]

It's not the same. Yeah we used picks to move up to get Tebow but we had also accumulated picks by trading down. Trading into the late first isn't the same as trading into the top 10 like the Jets did.

The jury is still out on Sanchez and those people who project QBs are hardly correct all the time.

I agree that Moreno wasnt worth the pick but I disagree that he's meant for the ZBS system. Nothing about Moreno's running style says one cut and go. He dances around too much. He's hardly a decisive runner.

I think if anything, McDaniels thinking Moreno would work had more to do with Moreno catching the ball out of the backfield in his pass happy offense. He wanted a guy who could block and catch and ended up with a guy who's not the best runner.

I wouldnt rule out the front office being involved in the decision to draft Tebow. Tebow is a shot in the arm as far as cash flow goes.

Some people just don't listen to sound reason... Knowshon was the 12th overall pick, Ayers was the 18th overall pick - those two picks alone according to the NFL Draft Value Chart are equal to 2100 points. The only picks of more combined overall value would have been the 1st, 2nd or 3rd overall picks. Sanchez was drafted with the 5th overall pick which was worth 1700 points, are you telling me that the Seahawks or Chiefs wouldn't have traded for those two picks (two in the Top 20) without a second thought? It's only difficult if you lack the value, we had that and then some.

Moreno hails from a ZBS college based blocking scheme, one where he did rather well in, so saying he is not better in the zone scheme compared to a power blocking is beyond asinine. Hopefully he proves worthy of the pick now that we're getting back to it and planning on using a fullback as well.

I have serious doubts that Bowlen was on board with the Tebow pick, he was getting tired of the circus (Ellis and Xanders may have been involved) but treating a professional sports franchise like a three-ringed circus only works so much before it backfires. Bowlen wanted Cutler to remain a Bronco, he fired Reeves and kept Elway, I would say that Bowlen has a sound idea of what he wants at quarterback...does Tebow's skills match up to those two? McDaniels tried to trade up for Bradford (which could be used in the above given argument about Sanchez) but he didn't have the value to move up to the top pick, so he instead takes Tebow? McCoy would have been a much smarter pick from a football standpoint - you may be right that it was for cash revenue drafting him, but I have to believe that it was more for saving his sorry ass and keeping him employed. (So we'll just have to agree to disagree)

[Agent of Orange]

Some people just don't listen to sound reason... Knowshon was the 12th overall pick, Ayers was the 18th overall pick - those two picks alone according to the NFL Draft Value Chart are equal to 2100 points. The only picks of more combined overall value would have been the 1st, 2nd or 3rd overall picks. Sanchez was drafted with the 5th overall pick which was worth 1700 points, are you telling me that the Seahawks or Chiefs wouldn't have traded for those two picks (two in the Top 20) without a second thought? It's only difficult if you lack the value, we had that and then some.

I know they had the picks to trade up. But if you look at the point value chart, as you get in the top 10, the value really starts to shoot up. Tebow was taken in the 20s. Also, as I alluded to before, there's the matter of cashflow where Bowlen is concerned.


Moreno hails from a ZBS college based blocking scheme, one where he did rather well in, so saying he is not better in the zone scheme compared to a power blocking is beyond asinine. Hopefully he proves worthy of the pick now that we're getting back to it and planning on using a fullback as well.

Thats great. Ty Detmer threw in a QB pass happy offense in college. That doesn't mean you'd want him throwing the ball 35 times a game in the NFL even if it was the same offense.




I have serious doubts that Bowlen was on board with the Tebow pick, he was getting tired of the circus (Ellis and Xanders may have been involved) but treating a professional sports franchise like a three-ringed circus only works so much before it backfires. Bowlen wanted Cutler to remain a Bronco, he fired Reeves and kept Elway, I would say that Bowlen has a sound idea of what he wants at quarterback...does Tebow's skills match up to those two? McDaniels tried to trade up for Bradford (which could be used in the above given argument about Sanchez) but he didn't have the value to move up to the top pick, so he instead takes Tebow? McCoy would have been a much smarter pick from a football standpoint - you may be right that it was for cash revenue drafting him, but I have to believe that it was more for saving his sorry ass and keeping him employed. (So we'll just have to agree to disagree)

Wow. I'm not sure you can say anything about Bowlen is sound at this point. And if there is, it's been focused cashflow.

[topscribe]

Kyle has played in exactly how many playoff games? Finishing a season above .500 and missing the playoffs is a losing season - at least in my book.

And that is a response to my post how? Pay attention to what I was responding.

Nonetheless, are you joining the Kyle-lost-all-by-himself club? I can understand
the others ignoring the last-place defense and the near last-place running game,
but I had you pegged as smarter than that . . .

-----

[BeefStew25]

Top you may be more snarky than Mo.

[TXBRONC]

I wouldnt rule out the front office being involved in the decision to draft Tebow. Tebow is a shot in the arm as far as cash flow goes.

This has already been completely ruled out. Right after McDaniels was cut loose Ellis came out said he had the same board authority that Shanahan had.

Even if the front office was involved I seriously doubt that there one iota of thought give to drafting Tebow because they thought he could boost jersey sales. Besides that I'm pretty sure that the replica jersey spike doesn't add significantly to the bottom line.

[Agent of Orange]

This has already been completely ruled out. Right after McDaniels was cut loose Ellis came out said he had the same board authority that Shanahan had.

Even if the front office was involved I seriously doubt that there one iota of thought give to drafting Tebow because they thought he could boost jersey sales. Besides that I'm pretty sure that the replica jersey spike doesn't add significantly to the bottom line.

I don't think you can rule it out just because Ellis tried to distance himself from McDaniels when things went down.

[Lancane]

I don't think you can rule it out just because Ellis tried to distance himself from McDaniels when things went down.

Well it's not like the fanbase think highly of Ellis and Xanders is on a rather short leash with the fandom as well.

I was hoping that between Fox and Elway there was a counter balance to the circus-esque acts of late. However, the leaking of an Orton trade, telling the media that Tebow is the starter only to counter that a week later doesn't bolster that hope, unfortunately.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think you can rule it out just because Ellis tried to distance himself from McDaniels when things went down.

Yeah you can rule it out because going all the way back to Dan Reeves the head coaches of the Broncos have had that kind stroke.

[topscribe]

This is one of the worst posts I think I've ever read. Just how far will the Orto aplogists take it?

When Elway retired he was the winningest QB of all time. Comparing him to Orton is like comparing a grafitti artist to Michelangelo! Really?

Orton is a good passer with limited atheletic ability. He will do well between the twenties on 1st and 2nd downs. He folds when the pressure is on. He's competent, but he is hardly a winner. And for all those fools that would argue Orton had a winning record prior to coming here, the Bears field one of the best defenses in the league year in and year out. Big whoop.

If my post was the worst, yours just took over first place. Amid all your
nonsensical rambling, you thoroughly whiffed on the point I was making.

Next. :coffee:

-----

[MileHiWildcat]

And that is a response to my post how? Pay attention to what I was responding.

Nonetheless, are you joining the Kyle-lost-all-by-himself club? I can understand
the others ignoring the last-place defense and the near last-place running game,
but I had you pegged as smarter than that . . .

-----

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/douche_bag.jpg

[topscribe]

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/douche_bag.jpg

Congratulations. This may be the most intelligent comment you've ever posted . . .

-----

[SR]

What a bunch of dumbassery.

[BroncoStud]

If my post was the worst, yours just took over first place. Amid all your
nonsensical rambling, you thoroughly whiffed on the point I was making.

Next. :coffee:

-----

Your point is invalid. Elway had already proven himself 1,000 times over. Even putting Kyle Orton in the same sentence in regards to QB play to John Elway is lunacy.

It's just not a good point. Orton "won" games in Chicago with a 59 rating, he might be the only QB I've ever seen play that got benched while WINNING a game...

:laugh::laugh:

[PAINTERDAVE]

And that is a response to my post how? Pay attention to what I was responding.

Nonetheless, are you joining the Kyle-lost-all-by-himself club? I can understand
the others ignoring the last-place defense and the near last-place running game,
but I had you pegged as smarter than that . . .

-----

Top.. I love ya man..

but it aint people saying..
"Kyle lost all on his lonesome."

We all understand the team has a part of it.

That said... the QB position is A LOT of it.

A LOT OF IT.

The QB and the coach gets the credit/record for his wins and losses.

That is how football is.

You can have a discussion about the why and how..

but in the end.. ORTON only won 5 of the last 23 games.

That is reality.... and it dont change by blaming the surrounding cast of players.

Like Chaz said in his post...

and I sum up like this..

A QB should not have to win every game single handedly....
but he dang well oughta pull a few out of the fire on his own talent.

Orton is NOT that guy.

When it comes down to the QB WILLING the team to excell..
making it happen..
leading the team to score points in the red zone
in the final minute to win the game...

Orton is simply NOT THAT GUY.

5 wins in the last 23.

Reality bites.

[Canmore]

Kyle had six chances to win the game last season on the last drive and how did that turnout. Simply not good enough. We need better production from our quarterback with the game on the line. If Kyle is the man this season, he has to be better in crunch time, in the red zone and on third down, the money down for pro quarterbacks. He should have some semblence of a running game and our defense has to be better than last years.

[claymore]

We all know Kyle isnt good. But he is the best we have. Until we can replace him with a better QB we are screwed.

As bad as Orton is, Tebow is way worse.

[topscribe]

Top.. I love ya man..

but it aint people saying..
"Kyle lost all on his lonesome."

We all understand the team has a part of it.

That said... the QB position is A LOT of it.

A LOT OF IT.

The QB and the coach gets the credit/record for his wins and losses.

That is how football is.

You can have a discussion about the why and how..

but in the end.. ORTON only won 5 of the last 23 games.

That is reality.... and it dont change by blaming the surrounding cast of players.

Like Chaz said in his post...

and I sum up like this..

A QB should not have to win every game single handedly....
but he dang well oughta pull a few out of the fire on his own talent.

Orton is NOT that guy.

When it comes down to the QB WILLING the team to excell..
making it happen..
leading the team to score points in the red zone
in the final minute to win the game...

Orton is simply NOT THAT GUY.

5 wins in the last 23.

Reality bites.

So let me get this straight: You want to put allllllll the blame on those losses
on Kyle Orton. There weren't 21 other players (plus ST) involved, just Kyle
Orton. The worst defense in all of the NFL was of no effect. Neither was the
effete running game. Nope, just Kyle Orton. Kyle did make mistakes and come
up short in defined (and discussed ad nauseam) areas. But he was the only
reason for the loss. I see it now.

Gotcha . . . :coffee:

-----

[jlarsiii]

http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/7m/jw/bs/eikillyou1.jpg

Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh to start my day. :beer:

[T.K.O.]

ORTON AT A GLANCE:
• A sixth-year quarterback whose .604 career winning percentage (29-19) as a starter with Denver (2009) and Chicago (2005-08) is the eighth-best figure in the NFL among active players and includes a .792 mark (19-5) at home that ranks third in the league among current players.
• Owns a 39-to-3 career touchdown-to-interception ratio (13.0) in the red zone for his career that ranks fifth in the league among active players.
• Set personal bests in nearly every statistical category with the Broncos in 2009, totaling the most passing yards by a player in his first year with the club in team history with a career-high 3,802 yards that ranked sixth among all players in franchise annals.
• Registered 10 games with a passer rating of at least 90.0 with Denver in 2009, tying a club single-season record (T-5th in NFL for the year), while being intercepted on just 2.2 percent (12-of-541) of his passes for the third-lowest rate in team history (6th in NFL for the year).
• Opened his Broncos career in 2009 by leading the team to six consecutive wins, which tied for the second-longest streak by a quarterback in his first year with a new team to begin a season since the 1970 NFL merger.
• Guided the Bears to a winning season in each of his two years (2005, ‘08) with the club as a full-time starter, including the 2005 campaign when he registered a 10-5 record in 15 starts for a Chicago squad that won the NFC North title.
• Set a Chicago franchise record for consecutive passes without an interception (205) in 2008 while also ranking second in the NFL with a 116.1 passer rating in the first quarter.
• Guided the Bears to eight consecutive wins as a starter in 2005 that marked the second-longest winning streak by a rookie quarterback since the 1970 NFL merger.
• Started for three seasons at Purdue University, finishing his collegiate career ranked third in school history in both passing yards (9,337) and touchdown passes (63).
• Joined the Broncos on April 2, 2009, in a trade with Chicago that brought Orton, first-round picks in the 2009 and ‘10 NFL Drafts as well as a third-round selection in ‘09 to Denver in exchange for quarterback Jay Cutler and a fifth-round pick in the ‘09 NFL Draft.
• Selected by Chicago in the fourth round (106th overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft.

:beer: c'mon guys it could be worse.....

[Lonestar]

Attendance was going to be NIL at Invesco if the Broncos didn't start Tebow those last 3 games and they knew it.

Orton's benching had NOTHING to do with him being "injured" as he himself said he was just fine and throwing 70 yard bombs in practice (sure :laugh:)...

It was a commercial and morale move to put Tebow in the lineup.

So your going to believe coach speak as to Orton not being injured

Everyone saw he was struggling throwing the ball well maybe but a few of this that did nit want to.

What do you expect him to say during the week?

Was it the right move for Pat to make absolutely. Everyone wanted to play with the new toy once the PO chances were over.

But statrting him this year I'm not so sure. If your thinking HS has long-term potential.

He is a long-term project. Why rush it before he is ready just to satisfy the journalists who feed their readers.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[topscribe]

So your going to believe coach speak as to Orton not being injured

Everyone saw he was struggling throwing the ball well maybe but a few of this that did nit want to.

What do you expect him to say during the week?

Was it the right move for Pat to make absolutely. Everyone wanted to play with the new toy once the PO chances were over.

But statrting him this year I'm not so sure. If your thinking HS has long-term potential.

He is a long-term project. Why rush it before he is ready just to satisfy the journalists who feed their readers.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Yes, and we have been over that time and time and time and time again. It's
as if some people are just illiterate.

Once again, in a presser, the media there finally dug out of Orton that his ribs
were injured, not on one side, but both sides. And then, in an interview of his
own, during which Elway made some glowing comments on Orton's performance
in 2010, Elway added, "And then there were those rib injuries."

But we still have some here who try to fly against established facts and say
Orton wasn't injured. Which makes sense that they would because then they
could point at Kyle's last two games and remark on how he "crashed and
burned."

But to someone rationally looking for cause and effect, there had to be a
reason Kyle suddenly tanked in those last two games, after passing for 347
yards and three TDs just the week before in nearly pulling out a spectacular
comeback victory against St. Louis.

But let's not fool ourselves into thinking we can get these facts across here.
It hasn't happened yet. It's not going to happen. There are just too many
here who apparently want to believe Kyle's a bum, for whatever reasons . . .

-----

[Lonestar]

" And for all those fools that would argue Orton had a winning record prior to coming here, the Bears field one of the best defenses in the league year in and year out. Big whoop."

One of the best lines in a post this year.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[topscribe]

" And for all those fools that would argue Orton had a winning record prior to coming here, the Bears field one of the best defenses in the league year in and year out. Big whoop."

One of the best lines in a post this year.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Same ol', same ol'. The losses here were all Kyle's fault. The wins there were
because of the rest of the team, not Kyle. Good ol' double-standard reasoning . . . :coffee:

-----

[PAINTERDAVE]

So let me get this straight: You want to put allllllll the blame on those losses
on Kyle Orton. There weren't 21 other players (plus ST) involved, just Kyle
Orton. The worst defense in all of the NFL was of no effect. Neither was the
effete running game. Nope, just Kyle Orton. Kyle did make mistakes and come
up short in defined (and discussed ad nauseam) areas. But he was the only
reason for the loss. I see it now.

Gotcha . . . :coffee:

-----

NO.. Top.

Read my post.

I do not put ALL the blame on Kyle.


Frankly..
the argument that you use..
as if anyone who blames part of it on Kyle..
blames ALL of it on Kyle alone..

that argument is not effective.

Read the post.

QB's and Coaches DO get credit and blame when the team wins or loses.

That is football.


Do we all have to word it EXACTLY this way every time?

"Orton has a HUGE part of the 18 losses out of the last 23 games."

It is just easier to say it the way every other fan has said it for many years.

"Manning won only 8 games this year."
"Montana won 12 of 16 this season."
"Rivers led his team to 12 victories this year."
"Namath promised to win the Super Bowl and he did."

That is how people say it.... have said it...
ands will continue to say it.

You can always discuss the how and why...

but coaches and QB's get credit and blame for the wins and losses.

"Orton has lead his team to wins in 5 of the last 23 games he started."

Does that make it any different?

Kyle still lead us to 18 losses in the last 23 games.

__________________________________

And that makes it pretty hard to get excited about his leadership (lack of leadership)

I cant imagine the players themselves getting excited about his leadership.
They may back him because they see his smooth practice ability...
and they know Tebow is not ready yet...
but how many of them truly expect Kyle to step up in the red zone..
after so many letdowns in the last two seasons already?

How many players winced when Kyle slid to a halt the other day
instead of showing some moxy by TRYING to get another 2 feet into the end zone?

[Lonestar]

It is ok Top way to many emotionally invested in jay yet to understand that he was not the FQB that they wanted him to be.

He was not the second coming of John. He was/is an immature kid that is a head case.

That IMHO will never reach the heights his taken level could take him to because of his ego.

But he is long gone from Denver except in his devotees minds.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Lonestar]

Same ol', same ol'. The losses here were all Kyle's fault. The wins there were
because of the rest of the team, not Kyle. Good ol' double-standard reasoning . . . :coffee:

-----

I was think more along the lines that jay lead them to the nffcg that the defense and ST had nothing to do with it.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[vandammage13]

NO.. Top.

Read my post.

I do not put ALL the blame on Kyle.


Frankly..
the argument that you use..
as if anyone who blames part of it on Kyle..
blames ALL of it on Kyle alone..

that argument is not effective.

Read the post.

QB's and Coaches DO get credit and blame when the team wins or loses.

That is football.


Do we all have to word it EXACTLY this way every time?

"Orton has a HUGE part of the 18 losses out of the last 23 games."

It is just easier to say it the way every other fan has said it for many years.

"Manning won only 8 games this year."
"Montana won 12 of 16 this season."
"Rivers led his team to 12 victories this year."
"Namath promised to win the Super Bowl and he did."

That is how people say it.... have said it...
ands will continue to say it.

You can always discuss the how and why...

but coaches and QB's get credit and blame for the wins and losses.

"Orton has lead his team to wins in 5 of the last 23 games he started."

Does that make it any different?

Kyle still lead us to 18 losses in the last 23 games.

Exactly...that's why they say Favre is the winningest QB of all time, or Shula is the winningest Coach of all time.

No one ever says (insert name) is the winningest OLB or TE of all time...

[PAINTERDAVE]

Go Broncos ! :defense:

Go TEAM! :salute:

[SOCALORADO.]

We all know Kyle isnt good. But he is the best we have. Until we can replace him with a better QB we are screwed.

As bad as Orton is, Tebow is way worse.

Folks are having a hard time coming to this simple conclusion.
Yeah, its bad kids. Real bad.

[BroncoStud]

So your going to believe coach speak as to Orton not being injured

Everyone saw he was struggling throwing the ball well maybe but a few of this that did nit want to.

What do you expect him to say during the week?

Was it the right move for Pat to make absolutely. Everyone wanted to play with the new toy once the PO chances were over.

But statrting him this year I'm not so sure. If your thinking HS has long-term potential.

He is a long-term project. Why rush it before he is ready just to satisfy the journalists who feed their readers.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Hey, I'm just taking Orton's OWN words and the fact that he wasn't on the injury report until Raiders week, and even THEN told the media he was fine and that he was just "sore" and he was throwing 70 yarders in practice with no issue...

HIS words, the team's actions - not mine.

[BroncoStud]

ORTON AT A GLANCE:
• A sixth-year quarterback whose .604 career winning percentage (29-19) as a starter with Denver (2009) and Chicago (2005-08) is the eighth-best figure in the NFL among active players and includes a .792 mark (19-5) at home that ranks third in the league among current players.
• Owns a 39-to-3 career touchdown-to-interception ratio (13.0) in the red zone for his career that ranks fifth in the league among active players.
• Set personal bests in nearly every statistical category with the Broncos in 2009, totaling the most passing yards by a player in his first year with the club in team history with a career-high 3,802 yards that ranked sixth among all players in franchise annals.
• Registered 10 games with a passer rating of at least 90.0 with Denver in 2009, tying a club single-season record (T-5th in NFL for the year), while being intercepted on just 2.2 percent (12-of-541) of his passes for the third-lowest rate in team history (6th in NFL for the year).
• Opened his Broncos career in 2009 by leading the team to six consecutive wins, which tied for the second-longest streak by a quarterback in his first year with a new team to begin a season since the 1970 NFL merger.
• Guided the Bears to a winning season in each of his two years (2005, ‘08) with the club as a full-time starter, including the 2005 campaign when he registered a 10-5 record in 15 starts for a Chicago squad that won the NFC North title.
• Set a Chicago franchise record for consecutive passes without an interception (205) in 2008 while also ranking second in the NFL with a 116.1 passer rating in the first quarter.
• Guided the Bears to eight consecutive wins as a starter in 2005 that marked the second-longest winning streak by a rookie quarterback since the 1970 NFL merger.
• Started for three seasons at Purdue University, finishing his collegiate career ranked third in school history in both passing yards (9,337) and touchdown passes (63).
• Joined the Broncos on April 2, 2009, in a trade with Chicago that brought Orton, first-round picks in the 2009 and ‘10 NFL Drafts as well as a third-round selection in ‘09 to Denver in exchange for quarterback Jay Cutler and a fifth-round pick in the ‘09 NFL Draft.
• Selected by Chicago in the fourth round (106th overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft.

:beer: c'mon guys it could be worse.....

Why did you ignore his 2010 season? If you're going to defend him at least be ACCURATE, right?

[Juriga72]

Again... only Orton fans seem to miss the point that "Kyle Orton" has "LED" the Denver Bronco's to score MORE than 21 points in a game 11 times in two years.

11 games scoring more than 21 pts (Divided by) 29 games started as a Denver Bronco


37% of his games

Jay Cutler- 51%
Jake Plummer-62%
Brian Griese 62%

So in Shanny's "Terrible Offense that couldnt score" more than half of all games since Elway retired.... we scored MORE than 21 pts.

[topscribe]

Why did you ignore his 2010 season? If you're going to defend him at least be ACCURATE, right?

Okay, let me help:

Throughout the first 11 games, Kyle averaged 306 yards/game, posting 20 TDs
against 6 INTs, achieving a 96.0 passer rating. Even though he incurred severe
rib injuries, he showed his courage and determination by playing through them
in his remaining two games of the season.

That ought to do . . .

-----

[MOtorboat]

Okay, let me help:

Throughout the first 11 games, Kyle averaged 306 yards/game, posting 20 TDs
against 6 INTs, achieving a 96.0 passer rating. Even though he incurred severe
rib injuries, he showed his courage and determination by playing through them
in his remaining two games of the season.

That ought to do . . .

-----

He also showed that he sucked real dick at winning a game when it mattered.

[chazoe60]

Has the phrase "thank God we have Kyle Orton" ever been uttered in the history of the world other than in a mocking fashion?

Seriously I don't think I've ever seen a more uninspiring starting QB. At least we'll be rid of this stain after this season, maybe even sooner if we're lucky.

[Juriga72]

Okay, let me help:

Throughout the first 11 games, Kyle averaged 306 yards/game, posting 20 TDs
against 6 INTs, achieving a 96.0 passer rating. Even though he incurred severe
rib injuries, he showed his courage and determination by playing through them
in his remaining two games of the season.That ought to do . . .

-----

2011 Aga Kahn Prize for Fiction winner for "Short Story" ^

[BroncoStud]

Okay, let me help:

Throughout the first 11 games, Kyle averaged 306 yards/game, posting 20 TDs
against 6 INTs, achieving a 96.0 passer rating. Even though he incurred severe
rib injuries, he showed his courage and determination by playing through them
in his remaining two games of the season.

That ought to do . . .

-----

Nah, doesn't work for me. I'm sure Kyle appreciates the love though. What is his starting record again? 5 wins since the 6-0 glass house McDaniels built in 2009?

It's a far cry from 29-19. :rolleyes:

By the way, Kyle, HIMSELF, said he wasn't injured, just sore, and that he was fine and throwing 70 yards in practice... TOP, is English your 2nd language? 3rd? Seems pretty blatant to me that even Kyle said he wasn't injured. Right?

[MOtorboat]

Has the phrase "thank God we have Kyle Orton" ever been uttered in the history of the world other than in a mocking fashion?

Seriously I don't think I've ever seen a more uninspiring starting QB. At least we'll be rid of this stain after this season, maybe even sooner if we're lucky.

After watching Tebow throw?

[Juriga72]

After watching Tebow throw?

I did utter it after watching Chris Simms in 09.....

[BroncoStud]

After watching Tebow throw?

I'd rather watch Tebow run the Wing T here in Denver than watch Orton take another fetal position sack.

[Superchop 7]

I accept nothing less than a win......that is the only focus players should have. If it takes 9 routes and flea flickers....then thats what you do.....if it takes 4 wideouts and wildcats (single wing) then thats what you do.....if you have to blitz the safeties...blitz the damn safeties.

[chazoe60]

After watching Tebow throw?

You mean like when Tebow threw for 300 yards and a come from behind victory. Oh wait that couldn't have happened because so many people like you say it's impossible. I guess I was dropping acid.

I'm not a Tebow homer but when people say he can't throw Andthat they know for sure he can't be an NFL QB I just have to laugh. I've already witnessed him perform as a good NFL QB and I'll trust my eyes more than the words of people sitting at home with their magic eight balls and a copy of Mel Kipers "QB mechanics for dummies".

I care about results and Tebow scored more points than Orton averaged. Could he regress? Most definitely. Could defenses figure out how to play him? Of course. Could he flame out miserably? Odds are he will, most QBs do. Do I have more faith that Tebow can become a good QB FOR THE DENVER BRONCOS than I do Orton because I've already watched Orton fail at it.

Hell I'm kinda rooting for Quinn. Basically anyone but Orton would be fine with me. But I'm probably stuck watching old droopy mope his way through part of another NFL season.

[Northman]

Why did you ignore his 2010 season? If you're going to defend him at least be ACCURATE, right?

I couldnt help but laugh out loud when i saw that too. What a stupid ass post.

[vandammage13]

You mean like when Tebow threw for 300 yards and a come from behind victory. Oh wait that couldn't have happened because so many people like you say it's impossible. I guess I was dropping acid.

I find it amazing that what we have seen in ACTUAL GAMES is trumped by speculation and structured 7 on 7 workouts...:coffee:

[topscribe]

Nah, doesn't work for me. I'm sure Kyle appreciates the love though. What is his starting record again? 5 wins since the 6-0 glass house McDaniels built in 2009?

It's a far cry from 29-19. :rolleyes:

By the way, Kyle, HIMSELF, said he wasn't injured, just sore, and that he was fine and throwing 70 yards in practice... TOP, is English your 2nd language? 3rd? Seems pretty blatant to me that even Kyle said he wasn't injured. Right?

That is so typical of you. You think personal insults further your argument.

It is so amazing that you keep harping on this when Kyle's injuries have been
so documented. But since you have admitted you want the Broncos to lose to
get a better drafting position, and you have made it so obvious that you want
Orton to be bad, your credibility is approximately zero.

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Why did you ignore his 2010 season? If you're going to defend him at least be ACCURATE, right?

Yeah. Strange how that was " conveniently" omitted.


I understand that a LOT of QBs have gone undefeated, if you just choose to omit the losses.

[topscribe]

He also showed that he sucked real dick at winning a game when it mattered.

Mo, which of the three QBs do you like best?

-----

[topscribe]

You mean like when Tebow threw for 300 yards and a come from behind victory. Oh wait that couldn't have happened because so many people like you say it's impossible. I guess I was dropping acid.

I'm not a Tebow homer but when people say he can't throw Andthat they know for sure he can't be an NFL QB I just have to laugh. I've already witnessed him perform as a good NFL QB and I'll trust my eyes more than the words of people sitting at home with their magic eight balls and a copy of Mel Kipers "QB mechanics for dummies".

I care about results and Tebow scored more points than Orton averaged. Could he regress? Most definitely. Could defenses figure out how to play him? Of course. Could he flame out miserably? Odds are he will, most QBs do. Do I have more faith that Tebow can become a good QB FOR THE DENVER BRONCOS than I do Orton because I've already watched Orton fail at it.

Hell I'm kinda rooting for Quinn. Basically anyone but Orton would be fine with me. But I'm probably stuck watching old droopy mope his way through part of another NFL season.

Looks as if you might be stuck with Orton, my friend.

But I do like the way Quinn is coming on. He's looking better all the time, by
all reports. If he just blew everybody away and found himself under center,
that would be fine by me, too . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

[lgenf]

ORTON AT A GLANCE: UPDATED TO REFLECT CURRENT KNOWN INFORMATION
• A seventh-year quarterback whose .525 career winning percentage (32-29) as a starter with Denver (2009-10) and Chicago (2005-08):beer: c'mon guys it could be worse.....

yep, we could get stuck with him for another year

[Lancane]

After watching Tebow throw?

I don't know about you...but I'm not sold on anyone of the three at this time Mo, I admit that of the three quarterbacks on the roster that Orton is without a doubt the best prepared, has the better mechanics of the position and likely a more sound choice from a coaching perspective then the other two...which is not exactly promising. Orton, who I feel is a serviceable journeyman is schooling the two first round drafted quarterbacks on the roster, that leaves a sour taste on my tongue. Of course I'm not sold on Tebow, I've long questioned his ability to transition into a pocket capable quarterback or to be a franchise-esque quarterback. I had a small hope that Quinn would breakout and become the guy, he was never given a fair shot in Cleveland, and with the professionalism of the coaches and front office personnel during his tenure who could argue that.

The more and more I'm hearing, I'm starting to wonder if Tebow will be nothing more then a first round 'trick-pony' and backup quarterback. And the more I believe Denver will be drafting a quarterback in the first round of the next draft as well.

[broncobryce]

I find it amazing that what we have seen in ACTUAL GAMES is trumped by speculation and structured 7 on 7 workouts...:coffee:

Real games don't count in these parts. Only practice, where orton is king ding-a-ling

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[topscribe]

It is ok Top way to many emotionally invested in jay yet to understand that he was not the FQB that they wanted him to be.

He was not the second coming of John. He was/is an immature kid that is a head case.

That IMHO will never reach the heights his taken level could take him to because of his ego.

But he is long gone from Denver except in his devotees minds.

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The way I see it, there are essentially four types of Orton-haters:

1. Cutler fans
2. Elway worshipers
3. Tebow sycophants and groupies
4. Those who just simply want to hate Orton

(This does not include those who simply are disenchanted by Orton's faults.
Some of them do have legitimate gripes.)

In any case, virtually none of them will acknowledge anything positive about
Orton. They just want to throw out pure negative stuff - some of it true,
others anywhere from misconception to outright lies - in an unexplainable
quest to persuade all others that Orton is a bum. They attack everything
about him except how he treats his wife (and they may even get to that,
eventually).

In any case, it has made many of them obtuse to the facts.

If Fox decides Orton is the QB who should be there, great: I will support him.
Same with Tebow or Quinn. It doesn't matter. I just want the Broncos to win.
Yet I have seen where at least one of those detractors has said he wants the
Broncos to lose so they can get a high draft choice - others have seemed to
imply as much.

Beats me what's going on around here . . .

-----

[topscribe]

I don't know about you...but I'm not sold on anyone of the three at this time Mo, I admit that of the three quarterbacks on the roster that Orton is without a doubt the best prepared, has the better mechanics of the position and likely a more sound choice from a coaching perspective then the other two...which is not exactly promising. Orton, who I feel is a serviceable journeyman is schooling the two first round drafted quarterbacks on the roster, that leaves a sour taste on my tongue. Of course I'm not sold on Tebow, I've long questioned his ability to transition into a pocket capable quarterback or to be a franchise-esque quarterback. I had a small hope that Quinn would breakout and become the guy, he was never given a fair shot in Cleveland, and with the professionalism of the coaches and front office personnel during his tenure who could argue that.

The more and more I'm hearing, I'm starting to wonder if Tebow will be nothing more then a first round 'trick-pony' and backup quarterback. And the more I believe Denver will be drafting a quarterback in the first round of the next draft as well.

I would bet that if one of the three doesn't step up dramatically this season,
the Broncos will be looking hard for a quarterback. :nod:

-----

[Ravage!!!]

(This does not include those who simply are disenchanted by Orton's faults.
Some of them do have legitimate gripes.)



-----

why is this one not in the list of the "Types" that don't like Orton??? :confused:

Seems to me that this would be the BIGGEST #one on the list of reasons. The others on your list are just "wiz" type excuses.

I've never seen you lower yourself to wiz mentality before. Its getting pretty sad.

[NightTerror218]

I would bet that if one of the three doesn't step up dramatically this season,
the Broncos will be looking hard for a quarterback. :nod:

-----

There are a couple in the upcoming draft....i could see Elway wanted to give a lot for Luck.

[Lancane]

I would bet that if one of the three doesn't step up dramatically this season,
the Broncos will be looking hard for a quarterback. :nod:

-----

We'd hope so...I just hope this front office doesn't pull an Arizona and trade for a backup who may or may not be starter capable, let alone a franchise quarterback. I mean hell, Arizona is banking everything on Kolb at this point and what little I've seen of him, that's less rational then signing Alex Smith as a team's franchise quarterback.

[Lonestar]

Hey, I'm just taking Orton's OWN words and the fact that he wasn't on the injury report until Raiders week, and even THEN told the media he was fine and that he was just "sore" and he was throwing 70 yarders in practice with no issue...

HIS words, the team's actions - not mine.
Again your going to believe words and nit what your eyes saw.
He is a veteran that does not want to come out of the game. what do you expect him to say.
I got a boo boo and can't throw a lick.

BTW if your going to believe this one why did nit not believe that Josh just took The call.

A little selective listening

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[topscribe]

We'd hope so...I just hope this front office doesn't pull an Arizona and trade for a backup who may or may not be starter capable, let alone a franchise quarterback. I mean hell, Arizona is banking everything on Kolb at this point and what little I've seen of him, that's less rational then signing Alex Smith as a team's franchise quarterback.

It wouldn't surprise me that, among EFX, three jaws hit the floor when the
Arizona deal took place. I just can't imagine, as you implied, their going in that
way after a player who has never proven he is anything but a backup QB.

Now, if one of the present three doesn't work out in a significant way, I wouldn't
mind if the Broncos had only one selection next year, and that was Luck. And it
may just come to something like that if they want him . . .

(Please, for those who would take me literally, there is a lot of figurative
language in there.)

-----

[Juriga72]

Of course there are 4 types of fans to whom its ok to enter this season with Kyle Orton as our QB-

#1-Deaf- They can't hear the rain of boo's during games as he hook slides 1 yard short every time he runs.

#2- Dumb- They look at Kyle and say.."its not him, its our reciever that cause him to throw into the dirt on third downs...only"

#3- Blind- They don't see the punter trotting out there every 1st half drive as we yet again fall behind due to 3 and outs.

#4-New to Bronco Football- After seeing a 5-21 stretch, they feel that even tho 75% of the roster was turned over in the two years.... Shanahan still couldn't draft players,and Mike Nolan was the worst ever Shanny hire.

I can't wait for them to go away soon....

[Lonestar]

Why did you ignore his 2010 season? If you're going to defend him at least be ACCURATE, right?

If anything his 10 season until he was hurt was not all that bad.

Lead The league in 40 yards passes was a leader in the +20 yard passes. Had a stellar TD/pick ratio considering the state of the olineLmost tital lack of running gMe and having near the lat place defense in the NFL looked pretty good to me. I'm sure therE are more things to add but those are sufficient to anyone that is not a hater to digest and say he had a pretty damnd good year almost all by himself.

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[Juriga72]

If anything his 10 season until he was hurt was not all that bad.

Lead The league in 40 yards passes was a leader in the +20 yard passes. Had a stellar TD/pick ratio considering the state of the olineLmost total lack of running gMe and having near the lat place defense in the NFL looked pretty good to me. I'm sure there are more things to add but those are sufficient to anyone that is not a hater to digest and say he had a pretty damned good year almost all by himself.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Please.... again show me how his O-line was bad, but good enough for him to complete 40 yard passes...which take ALOT of time

nothing like selective memory

[BroncoStud]

The way I see it, there are essentially four types of Orton-haters:

1. Cutler fans
2. Elway worshipers
3. Tebow sycophants and groupies
4. Those who just simply want to hate Orton

(This does not include those who simply are disenchanted by Orton's faults.
Some of them do have legitimate gripes.)

In any case, virtually none of them will acknowledge anything positive about
Orton. They just want to throw out pure negative stuff - some of it true,
others anywhere from misconception to outright lies - in an unexplainable
quest to persuade all others that Orton is a bum. They attack everything
about him except how he treats his wife (and they may even get to that,
eventually).

In any case, it has made many of them obtuse to the facts.

If Fox decides Orton is the QB who should be there, great: I will support him.
Same with Tebow or Quinn. It doesn't matter. I just want the Broncos to win.
Yet I have seen where at least one of those detractors has said he wants the
Broncos to lose so they can get a high draft choice - others have seemed to
imply as much.

Beats me what's going on around here . . .

-----

Since you are referring to me, I'll take the bait.

Yep, I admit it. I want Denver to win 3 games this year, I want us to defend homefield against the Chiefs, Raiders, and Chargers. Then, in next year's draft I really hope we are able to draft, sign, and develop Andrew Luck, because he is a legit franchise QB, evenmoreso than the one Chicago stole from us.

Can this happen if Orton manages to win us 6 or 7 games? Nope. We will just be another sub .500 team who has to settle for a decent but not gamechanging player.

By drafting Luck Denver will have essentially turned the page on the Josh McDaniels Era. Gone will likely be Orton, Tebow, and maybe Quinn. Or maybe Tebow will stick around to challenge for the job or as a backup, but likely we would deal him in that case.

But either way, the trade for Cutler will be forgiven, the 3 years of Kyle Orton will be forgotten, the controversy that is Tim Tebow will be eliminated, and Denver can move on with the closest thing to John Elway since John Elway himself.

So yes, I certainly hope that we lose ENOUGH to have a legit shot at him, because if we land him there is a chance that Denver can dominate the division again for over a decade. 1 year is worth that to me, especially since we aren't challenging anyone this year for a playoff spot or a Super Bowl anyway.

I am happy that Orton is starting because I think Tebow, as bad as his mechanics are, gives Denver a BETTER chance to win games because he has heart, balls, and the will to win, none of which Orton brings to the table. Ironcially by starting Orton it is my belief that we inch closer to getting a REAL QB.

So TOP, while you can claim you want the QB to play who gives Denver the best chance to win, while you assume and believe in your heart it is Orton, I see Denver moving closer and closer to moving on from the disaster that landed Orton and Tebow here in the first place - Josh McDaniels.

You call yourself a REAL fan, cute and all, but certainly a subjective way to describe one's support. You may be OK with 8-8, 7-9, and mediocre struggles from the QB position, I am not. I would think a REAL fan would want Denver to bring in the best player it can get no matter what it takes to get him. Orton's days here are numbered, he won't survive the season with this fanbase, the front office will have no option but to play Tebow at some point as Orton falters when it matters, like he ALWAYS has, I just hope Denver can lose enough games before that happens to keep Luck in sight.

[BroncoStud]

Again your going to believe words and nit what your eyes saw.
He is a veteran that does not want to come out of the game. what do you expect him to say.
I got a boo boo and can't throw a lick.

BTW if your going to believe this one why did nit not believe that Josh just took The call.

A little selective listening

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Once again, either Orton is lying, the Broncos are lying, or Orton put himself ahead of the team by failing to report the extent of his injuries and subsequently playing 2 of the worst NFL performances I have ever witnessed from the QB position and adding 2 more losses to Denver's total.

One of those is accurate, and NONE of them are good.

[lgenf]

There are a couple in the upcoming draft....i could see Elway wanted to give a lot for Luck.

NE Pats are going to take Luck

they have more picks then anyone - they only have to outbid 1 team the team in last place

if you are in last place, you need A LOT of help - NE will give you a good amount of picks and get you a lot of help

they will draft him and let him sit up there for 3 years while they ride out the Brady train and send him off when time is up and have Luck come in and be fully ready after sitting behind brady for 3 years

[Lancane]

It wouldn't surprise me that, among EFX, three jaws hit the floor when the
Arizona deal took place. I just can't imagine, as you implied, their going in that
way after a player who has never proven he is anything but a backup QB.

Now, if one of the present three doesn't work out in a significant way, I wouldn't
mind if the Broncos had only one selection next year, and that was Luck. And it
may just come to something like that if they want him . . .

(Please, for those who would take me literally, there is a lot of figurative
language in there.)

-----

I can't see it Top, I don't know why...but I can not see this front office in what would literally be the second and a very important year in the rebuilding process trading all the picks for one pick. I could see them moving up if we had the value to do it for Luck, which they do not have and unless we trade one if not two of the few premier players on this roster such as Doom or Clady then it's very unlikely we will see Luck unless we have the first overall pick by default.

Barkley, Jones, Lindley, Cousins, Foles or Tannehill are more likely to be the choice should they go that route...but I could be wrong and they do decide to bet the house for a chance at Luck, but right now like I said I just can't see them doing that.

[Juriga72]

SO lets see......"Outright lies"-

"Orton sucks on third downs"... nope he does

"Orton was benched at halftime winning a game"- Nope... he was

"Orton "Won" 10 games in 2005"- Well..kinda throwing 9 touchdowns in 15 games played

"Orton has been benched or hurt every year in the NFL"- nope.... he has been

"Orton has never been voted Pro Bowl"- nope

"Orton has heart"... questionable at best of course he might also just fail when it counts

[Nomad]

NE Pats are going to take Luck
they have more picks then anyone - they only have to outbid 1 team the team in last place

if you are in last place, you need A LOT of help - NE will give you a good amount of picks and get you a lot of help

they will draft him and let him sit up there for 3 years while they ride out the Brady train and send him off when time is up and have Luck come in and be fully ready after sitting behind brady for 3 years

:lol:wouldn't that make heads explode around the NFL!!

Here's Luck's schedule, if anyone is interested. BTW, he's going down OCT 15!:D:elefant:

http://www.gostanford.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/stan-m-footbl-sched.html

[Lancane]

NE Pats are going to take Luck

they have more picks then anyone - they only have to outbid 1 team the team in last place

if you are in last place, you need A LOT of help - NE will give you a good amount of picks and get you a lot of help

they will draft him and let him sit up there for 3 years while they ride out the Brady train and send him off when time is up and have Luck come in and be fully ready after sitting behind brady for 3 years

New England is not going after Luck, first off Belichick doesn't believe in first round quarterbacks, he's only admitted that about hundred or so times in as many interviews. Not to mention that he drafted a pretty good quarterback in the last draft who has a poor attitude but first round talent...what would make people believe that he wants Luck?

[topscribe]

I can't see it Top, I don't know why...but I can not see this front office in what would literally be the second and a very important year in the rebuilding process trading all the picks for one pick. I could see them moving up if we had the value to do it for Luck, which they do not have and unless we trade one if not two of the few premier players on this roster such as Doom or Clady then it's very unlikely we will see Luck unless we have the first overall pick by default.

Barkley, Jones, Lindley, Cousins, Foles or Tannehill are more likely to be the choice should they go that route...but I could be wrong and they do decide to bet the house for a chance at Luck, but right now like I said I just can't see them doing that.

Well, neither can I, realistically. But I wouldn't mind their giving up a lot to get
a star QB - if they have better judgment than did McDaniels, that is. QB is
where it all begins - I don't have to tell you that. Shanahan knew that: Which
is why he went after Cutler.

Why all the sudden am I getting angry? :sad:

-----

[lgenf]

New England is not going after Luck, first off Belichick doesn't believe in first round quarterbacks, he's only admitted that about hundred or so times in as many interviews. Not to mention that he drafted a pretty good quarterback in the last draft who has a poor attitude but first round talent...what would make people believe that he wants Luck?

it was a complete joke post - I figured the attitude needed to lighten up in here a bit - but I agree, heads would explode if that happened
and he does have more pics than anyone

[Lancane]

Well, neither can I, realistically. But I wouldn't mind their giving up a lot to get
a star QB - if they have better judgment than did McDaniels, that is. QB is
where it all begins - I don't have to tell you that. Shanahan knew that: Which
is why he went after Cutler.

Why all the sudden am I getting angry? :sad:

-----

That's quite simple Top, because no matter what side of the quarterback debates we're on...any of us. There is one unmitigating fact that dominates all other reason - we are all tired of the drama not only on the boards but also in the media constantly, likewise of the arguments on the board that are both hypocritical, irrational and eventually makes us all weary and beyond tired of it...and that is that we all want a franchise quarterback that we can all support, one whom we all rally behind and believe is not only the future but the next great to lead this team back to the glory we held for nearly two decades as one of the best in the AFC, not just the AFC West.

How many debates have you and I, let alone Jr., RC, Trychon, Mountain, Silk, Cugel and Carol seen over the years we've all known each other?

In that time we've seen the likes of Griese, Plummer, Jackson, Frerotte, Mauck, Van Pelt, Cutler, Orton, Simms, Quinn and now Tebow. It's been too damn long since we've had a quarterback that really had the fanbase behind them, Cutler is the closest to that since Elway, but even then some did not like him. We are weary, we really need someone at the helm who we can all support and in that mellows the fans with contentment and not contempt.

:beer:

[MOtorboat]

Mo, which of the three QBs do you like best?

-----

Brady Effin' Quinn!

[Northman]

Please.... again show me how his O-line was bad, but good enough for him to complete 40 yard passes...which take ALOT of time

nothing like selective memory


Our Oline wasnt that spectacular last year, we ranked 24th overall. However, it wasnt like we had a line as bad as Chicago where they ended up dead last.

[The Glue Factory]

We are weary, we really need someone at the helm who we can all support and in that mellows the fans with contentment and not contempt.

:beer:

The only problem with that statement is that it's going be at least 5 (and more like 10) years into the FQB of the future before we get everyone behind him. Even Elway was under public ridicule when he went 5-11 in the early 90's, a short 10 years after he arrived in town!

Honestly, I think we're going to have a divisive fanbase until the Broncos constantly make the playoffs and win a couple more SB, but then we'll be spoiled even more and will settle for nothing short of AFCCG & SB games each and every year.

I don't like Orton and want him gone but it's because he is the boringest QB I've had the mispleasure to watch. Once we were down by 14 last year it was a guarantee we'd lose the game when Orton was leading the squad. Tebow? Not so much.

I'm firmly in the give Tebow his year at QB because Orton won't be here next year and Tebow might (just possibly) be the QB we want. There's too many question marks to answer with Tebow and this year is the best year to find out what those are. The problem is the Orton exit plan.

[Lancane]

The only problem with that statement is that it's going be at least 5 (and more like 10) years into the FQB of the future before we get everyone behind him. Even Elway was under public ridicule when he went 5-11 in the early 90's, a short 10 years after he arrived in town!

Honestly, I think we're going to have a divisive fanbase until the Broncos constantly make the playoffs and win a couple more SB, but then we'll be spoiled even more and will settle for nothing short of AFCCG & SB games each and every year.

I don't like Orton and want him gone but it's because he is the boringest QB I've had the mispleasure to watch. Once we were down by 14 last year it was a guarantee we'd lose the game when Orton was leading the squad. Tebow? Not so much.

I'm firmly in the give Tebow his year at QB because Orton won't be here next year and Tebow might (just possibly) be the QB we want. There's too many question marks to answer with Tebow and this year is the best year to find out what those are. The problem is the Orton exit plan.

We started to see it with Cutler, so I have to disagree...I think the need is heavily ingrained at this time that a franchise quarterback of respectable caliber (see Rodgers), with great upside and infectious mannerism (see Tebow) would be more then well enough to get the majority of the fanbase behind him. There will be a few, but one thing I've noticed from posts alone is that winning is no longer enough, it's the need to win often to be dominant once more that the fans are really clamoring for.

We could win the Super Bowl with a defense juggernaut such as the 2000 Ravens, but many would still feel a one and done, because no team of the modern age has won back to back or even more then one in a decade or so with defensively strong teams, while balanced teams seem to be competitive on a continual basis. Hell, Fox's NFC Championship Team was balanced, they had the 10th best defense and the 15th best offense, and I'm sure that Fox has realized that defense is not enough, in 2005 two years after their Super Bowl appearance the Panthers fielded the 8th best offense and 5th best defense and were favorites to win it all only to fall short. The year after they had a stout defense and a mediocre offense, yet again in 2008 they had the 7th best offense and the 12th best defense and had the best overall seasonal record of his career 12-4 only to fall short once again, this time to Arizona. The two seasons that followed saw the panthers remain solid defensively and horrible offensively. So I don't think Fox will focus on having a defensive prominent team but balanced and I believe they'll see it as such and that a quarterback is a far major component to that.

[Juriga72]

Our Oline wasnt that spectacular last year, we ranked 24th overall. However, it wasnt like we had a line as bad as Chicago where they ended up dead last.

In sacks allowed.....7th overall in "QB hits"

Nah... Kyle is a statue back there... IMHO the line wasn't nearly as bad as "Orton fans" wanted it to be.

[The Glue Factory]

We started to see it with Cutler, so I have to disagree...I think the need is heavily ingrained at this time that a franchise quarterback of respectable caliber (see Rodgers), with great upside and infectious mannerism (see Tebow) would be more then well enough to get the majority of the fanbase behind him. There will be a few, but one thing I've noticed from posts alone is that winning is no longer enough, it's the need to win often to be do.

We started to see it but we also saw it with Elway until we had bad seasons. Then it was the whole trade Elway, get rid of Reeves, and everything else. I think it's a case of winning or not. Even then you'll have a small population of negativity pointing to things not looking so good.

[TXBRONC]

Our Oline wasnt that spectacular last year, we ranked 24th overall. However, it wasnt like we had a line as bad as Chicago where they ended up dead last.

Also you could see improvement once Harris got healthier.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Lonestar]

"If Fox decides Orton is the QB who should be there, great: I will support him.
Same with Tebow or Quinn. It doesn't matter. I just want the Broncos to win.
Yet I have seen where at least one of those detractors has said he wants the
Broncos to lose so they can get a high draft choice - others have seemed to
imply as much.

Beats me what's going on around here . . ."

Always a new toy to play with that is the problem. Dan reeves has it with Maddox Mikey had it with griese , Jake and jay.

Now fans see luck and a few others as replacements.

No one is ever happy.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[SR]

Lets all go get some Cold Stone.

[MasterShake]

Lets all go get some Cold Stone.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/stone-cold-steve-austin-005.jpg

[SR]

No, stupid...the ice cream. I'll take a sweet cream with strawberries and chocolate syrup, please.

[MasterShake]

No, stupid...the ice cream. I'll take a sweet cream with strawberries and chocolate syrup, please.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/stone-cold-steve-austin-005-1.jpg

[SR]

That's so much better. I want mine in a cake cone.

[Lonestar]

Once again, either Orton is lying, the Broncos are lying, or Orton put himself ahead of the team by failing to report the extent of his injuries and subsequently playing 2 of the worst NFL performances I have ever witnessed from the QB position and adding 2 more losses to Denver's total.

One of those is accurate, and NONE of them are good.

and if either is, that still meant he was hurt.. injured!! one of the main reasons for him being pulled and Tebow playing..

Not sure WHy your so pig headed on this..

[Lonestar]

That's quite simple Top, because no matter what side of the quarterback debates we're on...any of us. There is one unmitigating fact that dominates all other reason - we are all tired of the drama not only on the boards but also in the media constantly, likewise of the arguments on the board that are both hypocritical, irrational and eventually makes us all weary and beyond tired of it...and that is that we all want a franchise quarterback that we can all support, one whom we all rally behind and believe is not only the future but the next great to lead this team back to the glory we held for nearly two decades as one of the best in the AFC, not just the AFC West.

How many debates have you and I, let alone Jr., RC, Trychon, Mountain, Silk, Cugel and Carol seen over the years we've all known each other?

In that time we've seen the likes of Griese, Plummer, Jackson, Frerotte, Mauck, Van Pelt, Cutler, Orton, Simms, Quinn and now Tebow. It's been too damn long since we've had a quarterback that really had the fanbase behind them, Cutler is the closest to that since Elway, but even then some did not like him. We are weary, we really need someone at the helm who we can all support and in that mellows the fans with contentment and not contempt.

:beer:

I'm not sure tht will ever happen there will always be a couple of yahoo's that like some strong armed moron..

HE will be their answer to their prayers that Luck, Tebow or one of the others do not satisfy their bromance..

A few jumped on jays bandwagon before he was drafted, had an orgasm when he was and has berated every QB since..

some folks are just like that..

they tie their horse to a wagon and for the life of me will defend them till they are not in the league anymore..

Or will berate any player brought in to replace them..

like a spoiled child if I can't have my way I'll yell and scream until I get my pacifer..

Peace at the QB spot is not likely to happen anytime soon..IMHO

[topscribe]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/stone-cold-steve-austin-005-1.jpg

The one on the right is gross. Looks like his head has been blown off . . .

-----

[DenBronx]

I LoL'd at the reporter that asked Coach Fox and Orton about the fans wearing more Tebow jerseys than Orton jerseys. The video is on the main page.

Both of their responses were like wtf kind of question is that.

Orton did say the last thing on his mind was to win over the fans. That kind of bothers me a bit. I know it's more important to win over the coaches/players but dont discredit the fans. Were kind of a big deal.

[Ravage!!!]

Orton did say the last thing on his mind was to win over the fans. That kind of bothers me a bit. I know it's more important to win over the coaches/players but dont discredit the fans. Were kind of a big deal.

I agree with him though. Fans are here, but they are fickle. Your teammates, and your coaches are the most important. They are the ones you practice every day with. They are the ones you go to war with. They are the ones you worry about disappointing when on the field.

The fans will hate you one moment, and love you the next. The general rule amongst players is to NOT read the media, do NOT listen to the local radio shows, and do NOT listen to the fans.

[MOtorboat]

I agree with him though. Fans are here, but they are fickle. Your teammates, and your coaches are the most important. They are the ones you practice every day with. They are the ones you go to war with. They are the ones you worry about disappointing when on the field.

The fans will hate you one moment, and love you the next. The general rule amongst players is to NOT read the media, do NOT listen to the local radio shows, and do NOT listen to the fans.

That won't go over well.

[BORDERLINE]

Yeah I have to come to accept that Orton will start and I look at the very few positives.

1. Maybe our Running game improves and on 3 and 3 we can rush for 4 yards and get the first.

2. Maybe this lights a fire under Orton and he plays outta his neck beard and we get on a roll.

Fingers Crossed we can't have another 4-12 season and if we do EFX will be held responsible.

[Agent of Orange]

Yeah I have to come to accept that Orton will start and I look at the very few positives.

1. Maybe our Running game improves and on 3 and 3 we can rush for 4 yards and get the first.

2. Maybe this lights a fire under Orton and he plays outta his neck beard and we get on a roll.

Fingers Crossed we can't have another 4-12 season and if we do EFX will be held responsible.

I don't. Orton shouldnt be starting. It's the same crap every year.

1. A running game would help any QB. This wouldnt mean Orton should be the starter.

2. If this is what is required to light a fire under Orton, he shouldnt be starting in the first place.

[Juriga72]

Funny how a very good running game and defense helped Kyle to a 9-7 2008 record in Chicago...

[BroncoJoe]

Yeah I have to come to accept that Orton will start and I look at the very few positives.

1. Maybe our Running game improves and on 3 and 3 we can rush for 4 yards and get the first.

2. Maybe this lights a fire under Orton and he plays outta his neck beard and we get on a roll.

Fingers Crossed we can't have another 4-12 season and if we do EFX will be held responsible.

No they won't, nor should they be. This was a team left in the trail of a tornado, followed by a lockout. This year is a "pass" year.

[Jsteve01]

Funny how a very good running game and defense helped Kyle to a 9-7 2008 record in Chicago...

Hey while we're on that topic, how was Jay's record the following year?

[BroncoStud]

Hey while we're on that topic, how was Jay's record the following year?

How was Jay's record last year? How was Grossman's record the year after Orton got benched?

[Northman]

How was Jay's record last year? How was Grossman's record the year after Orton got benched?


:cricket::cricket::cricket::cricket:

[topscribe]

How was Jay's record last year? How was Grossman's record the year after Orton got benched?

How was Norm Van Brocklin's record? Sammy Baugh? How about Y.A. Tittle?

I love history . . .

-----

[Juriga72]

Hey while we're on that topic, how was Jay's record the following year?

Um... Lets see.... The year where they lost Urlacher ( See excuse ofr Orton last year with Doom missing the whole year) in the first half of the first game?

The same year the Bears lost 5 4th quarter leads?

Um.... Oh yeah.. You mean the year Jay Cutler in his first year in the Bears crappy offense threw for the 2nd most touchdowns in one year ever for a Chicago Bear?

Or...... The year where Cutler won 3 of his last 5 games....

Which record would you be speaking of?

:D

[BroncoStud]

How was Norm Van Brocklin's record? Sammy Baugh? How about Y.A. Tittle?

I love history . . .

-----

Evasion: an act or instance of escaping, avoiding, or shirking something.

:elefant:

[Juriga72]

How was Norm Van Brocklin's record? Sammy Baugh? How about Y.A. Tittle?

I love history . . .

-----

Cept.... Orton never played with any of those guy's

and even YOU would know that the Denver Broncos NEVER lost 12 games in one season for its entire HISTORY...


until we had Kyle Orton as Qb that is..

[TXBRONC]

How was Norm Van Brocklin's record? Sammy Baugh? How about Y.A. Tittle?

I love history . . .

-----

How Grossman and Cutler are relevant to the conversation. Van Brocklin, Baugh and Tittle are irrelevant.

[Juriga72]

How Grossman and Cutler are relevant to the conversation. Van Brocklin, Baugh and Tittle are irrelevant.

Even with all three dead and buried....
They would ALL start for MY Bronco's this year....over the three qb's we have

:beer::elefant:

[topscribe]

How Grossman and Cutler are relevant to the conversation. Van Brocklin, Baugh and Tittle are irrelevant.

None of it is relevant. I don't know how you could think it is.

What is relevant is today, not pulling up historical events to try to denigrate an
individual who presently plays for the Denver Broncos. This has constantly been
referenced by Orton-haters - historical comparison of quarterbacks - and it
ranks among the silliest of arguments . . .

-----

[TXBRONC]

Even with all three dead and buried....
They would ALL start for MY Bronco's this year....over the three qb's we have

:beer::elefant:

So you would trade three live stiffs for three dead stiffs. :lol:

[pnbronco]

I'm just glad the lock out didn't last like it could of and that we have football again. :beer:

[chazoe60]

What I find frustrating is that we have two young first round draft pick QBs and a guy with 60 career starts and we actually have one of the worst QB situations in the league.

Our starter is a below average vet on a one year contract. Our backups are two first round picks who can't (so far) beat out an extremely limited and flawed loser.


Hey Andrew Luck, we love you man.

[Lancane]

What I find frustrating is that we have two young first round draft pick QBs and a guy with 60 career starts and we actually have one of the worst QB situations in the league.

Our starter is a below average vet on a one year contract. Our backups are two first round picks who can't (so far) beat out an extremely limited and flawed loser.


Hey Andrew Luck, we love you man.

Thus the reason I believe Denver will be drafting a quarterback and early in the 2012 NFL Draft...but, I don't see Denver selling the farm for Luck, no matter how enamored Elway is. The only shot we have at getting Luck is likely if we are a one or two win team.

Instead it's safe to say that it will more then likely be those that follow Luck on the draft boards who we look at...I'm rather high on Matt Barkley, I would be very happy if somehow we drafted him, he's literally the best USC prospect I've seen in a long time, even better then Sanchez IMHO. Landry Jones is an interesting prospect, when he's on he's a gamer, reminds me a lot of Jake Plummer during his collegiate years. Kirk Cousins is another to watch, he's accurate, has pretty decent range and a fairly quick release and can throw with some velocity...he's one that if he has a great year could easily be a first round quarterback. Another kid I'm rather big on is Ryan Lindley, he's got a huge arm, he's mobile and can make all the throws, he may even end up being a better pro prospect then Jones, Barkley or Cousins. Of course there are the others to watch out for as well, such as Nick Foles, Ryan Tannehill and Brandon Weeden.

[Northman]

Thus the reason I believe Denver will be drafting a quarterback and early in the 2012 NFL Draft...but, I don't see Denver selling the farm for Luck, no matter how enamored Elway is. The only shot we have at getting Luck is likely if we are a one or two win team.

Instead it's safe to say that it will more then likely be those that follow Luck on the draft boards who we look at...I'm rather high on Matt Barkley, I would be very happy if somehow we drafted him, he's literally the best USC prospect I've seen in a long time, even better then Sanchez IMHO. Landry Jones is an interesting prospect, when he's on he's a gamer, reminds me a lot of Jake Plummer during his collegiate years. Kirk Cousins is another to watch, he's accurate, has pretty decent range and a fairly quick release and can throw with some velocity...he's one that if he has a great year could easily be a first round quarterback. Another kid I'm rather big on is Ryan Lindley, he's got a huge arm, he's mobile and can make all the throws, he may even end up being a better pro prospect then Jones, Barkley or Cousins. Of course there are the others to watch out for as well, such as Nick Foles, Ryan Tannehill and Brandon Weeden.


Yea, although i dont expect us to be very good this coming year i think its a pipe dream that people have that we will be drafting Luck. Knowing our own luck he will not want to come to Denver. lmao

[Lancane]

Yea, although i dont expect us to be very good this coming year i think its a pipe dream that people have that we will be drafting Luck. Knowing our own luck he will not want to come to Denver. lmao

I think Luck would be very interested to come here if we had that ability to draft him. But I have to disagree with your assessment of the Broncos, I don't see us breaking .500, but can easily see us winning four to six games. Sadly I see Oakland wiping their asses with us in the first game of the season, though I do believe we'll bounce back and win a tight game against Cincinnati. The Titans is a toss up at this point and Green Bay will destroy us, I don't even see that being a competitive game. I have a feeling that San Diego is going to run the table on Denver, I just don't think we have the offensive weapons to really beat them. The Dolphins I believe we'll beat, but barely and I have a feeling that Detroit will light us up like a Christmas Tree. I see Denver losing all the games scheduled in November, and the only games we really stand a chance of winning in December is against the Bills and Vikings and it won't be easy. And I see us pulling an upset in the last week of the regular season, at home against the Chiefs.

My prediction is 5-11 and that is with some very tough wins, though you could be right and we're more like 2-14.

[chazoe60]

I think Luck would be very interested to come here if we had that ability to draft him. But I have to disagree with your assessment of the Broncos, I don't see us breaking .500, but can easily see us winning four to six games. Sadly I see Oakland wiping their asses with us in the first game of the season, though I do believe we'll bounce back and win a tight game against Cincinnati. The Titans is a toss up at this point and Green Bay will destroy us, I don't even see that being a competitive game. I have a feeling that San Diego is going to run the table on Denver, I just don't think we have the offensive weapons to really beat them. The Dolphins I believe we'll beat, but barely and I have a feeling that Detroit will light us up like a Christmas Tree. I see Denver losing all the games scheduled in November, and the only games we really stand a chance of winning in December is against the Bills and Vikings and it won't be easy. And I see us pulling an upset in the last week of the regular season, at home against the Chiefs.

My prediction is 5-11 and that is with some very tough wins, though you could be right and we're more like 2-14.

I agree completely. When I looked at the schedule that is exactly how I saw it going down. And Vegas agrees with us.

[BORDERLINE]

No they won't, nor should they be. This was a team left in the trail of a tornado, followed by a lockout. This year is a "pass" year.

I say why??? they seen what Orton has done what he can do. To me they would get a pass if say Tebow started. The media/everyone wants to act like Tebow never played a down in the NFL. He started 3 games that's not much but it has to count for something. EFX is going with Orton cool, fine i guess i get it, but if he fails and we end up playing Tebow come week 9 because Orton is being Orton are we just going to give EFX a pass??

I say hell NO. And what's in store for the year after this one, another rookie QB vs Tebow. Orton is outta here come next year so what then? Tebow needs practice with the first team. Taking away reps from a "project" QB is crazy. He needs all he can get.

Sorry a pass for EFX would count if they would start Tebow. If he fails It's not there guy. McDouche left this team in shambles and ripped a fan base in two. But a 1st round pick is a first round pick and last time I checked every team that drafts one plays them. Some do good some do bad and at the end of the day we can let him go but I don't see this going away until he get's a clear shot at the starting position reps and everything. he is not a pocket passer we know, and we know he won't be a statue like Orton when the blitz comes.

[SR]

.

Is that you in your avatar?

[BroncoStud]

I think Luck would be very interested to come here if we had that ability to draft him. But I have to disagree with your assessment of the Broncos, I don't see us breaking .500, but can easily see us winning four to six games. Sadly I see Oakland wiping their asses with us in the first game of the season, though I do believe we'll bounce back and win a tight game against Cincinnati. The Titans is a toss up at this point and Green Bay will destroy us, I don't even see that being a competitive game. I have a feeling that San Diego is going to run the table on Denver, I just don't think we have the offensive weapons to really beat them. The Dolphins I believe we'll beat, but barely and I have a feeling that Detroit will light us up like a Christmas Tree. I see Denver losing all the games scheduled in November, and the only games we really stand a chance of winning in December is against the Bills and Vikings and it won't be easy. And I see us pulling an upset in the last week of the regular season, at home against the Chiefs.

My prediction is 5-11 and that is with some very tough wins, though you could be right and we're more like 2-14.

I would be very surprised if we beat the Vikings this season... Adrian Peterson has to be licking his chops right now to run it right up the middle of our defense. Detroit is going to put some points on us, and the Bills are tough if Fitzpatrick is on his game...

I really think we're looking at 3-5 wins for the year but there isn't a single team on the schedule I'm absolutely sure we should beat, and that might be a first going into a season.

[Canmore]

I would be very surprised if we beat the Vikings this season... Adrian Peterson has to be licking his chops right now to run it right up the middle of our defense. Detroit is going to put some points on us, and the Bills are tough if Fitzpatrick is on his game...

I really think we're looking at 3-5 wins for the year but there isn't a single team on the schedule I'm absolutely sure we should beat, and that might be a first going into a season.

I've felt we are a six win team but lately I have been hedging toward five. Unfortunate, but true that there are no we will win this game when I look at the schedule. The schedule looks brutal and there are no gimme games at this point. I'm hoping preseason games brighten my outlook. Stoping, or at least slowing down the run would be one of the first things to alter my thinking. Kyle being productive on third downs and in the red zone certainly would be another.

[BroncoStud]

I've felt we are a six win team but lately I have been hedging toward five. Unfortunate, but true that there are no we will win this game when I look at the schedule. The schedule looks brutal and there are no gimme games at this point. I'm hoping preseason games brighten my outlook. Stoping, or at least slowing down the run would be one of the first things to alter my thinking. Kyle being productive on third downs and in the red zone certainly would be another.

Haven't you gotten the memo? The media has the fans thinking Orton is a good QB now because he's comfortable in the system and looks great at 7 on 7... This is a new and improved Orton, no more injuries, no more fainting fetal goat sacks, no more 31% on 3rd downs, and this year he will win more than 1 out of 6 close games...

Now that Orton is hearing his own press and eating it up, us fans can stick it too, because we don't matter. Orton is now a superstar like he's always wanted to be. Just... No other teams wanted him, but that's no big deal.

[chazoe60]

The only game I would put money on is the Cincy game. Other than that they're all toss ups or would shock the Hell out of me if we won.

[BroncoStud]

The only game I would put money on is the Cincy game. Other than that they're all toss ups or would shock the Hell out of me if we won.

Watch Andy Dalton light us up for 300 and 4 Tds...

[Lancane]

The only game I would put money on is the Cincy game. Other than that they're all toss ups or would shock the Hell out of me if we won.

I wouldn't even bet on the Cincinnati game, the Bengals always seem to play us tough, even when they have crap teams.

[Canmore]

Haven't you gotten the memo? The media has the fans thinking Orton is a good QB now because he's comfortable in the system and looks great at 7 on 7... This is a new and improved Orton, no more injuries, no more fainting fetal goat sacks, no more 31% on 3rd downs, and this year he will win more than 1 out of 6 close games...

Now that Orton is hearing his own press and eating it up, us fans can stick it too, because we don't matter. Orton is now a superstar like he's always wanted to be. Just... No other teams wanted him, but that's no big deal.

No, guess I missed that memo. Maybe I should revise my forcast. :laugh:

[chazoe60]

Watch Andy Dalton light us up for 300 and 4 Tds...

Good, one less team that would want to draft a QB at the top of the draft. :laugh:

I kid, I kid. Kinda.

[BORDERLINE]

Is that you in your avatar?

yup:salute:

[hotcarl]

yup:salute:

yikes

[SR]

yup:salute:

Sweet pipes.