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View Full Version : 1 position will make our defense top 10.



underrated29
11-17-2008, 01:18 PM
Its also the 1 position that we will take with our first overall pick next year regardless of who is still on the board. (The 1 and only exception is that, the other players at this position show at combine etc, that they are equally as good as the top 2-3. i will list those few in a moment).

As we all know, its no surprise Saftey is a huge hole for us. Its one of our many holes. But take these things into consideration.

When we drafted Steve Atwater, our run D sucked, with him in our lineup it become one of the top units in the nfl. Now there might be other defensive changes made during that year, but a Franchise Saftey can instantly improve the run d.

Look at what Bob sanders is to the colts, what troy palamaulbeast is to the steelers. These guys change the face of the game. Singlehandedly.

As if we didnt need more proof of our lack of talent there, here are some plays from yesterdays game that a top notch S, would have made.

There was a 3rd and 10 for the birds. They throw a quick out to jenkins? in 1 on 1 coverage. Our saftey read the play but when he got there he slowed down and almost watched to see if the player would make the catch or break the tackle......A top notch S, would have just destroyed the WR, he would not leave any chance for the man to be able to hang on to the ball.

Result would have been no 3rd down completion, maybe a fumble.

Michael Turners, 20 yard TD run. At about the 5 yard line or so, he gets slowed up by a corner or S, not sure who. Calvin Lowry is also there to make the tackle while the corner or other S, is tying turner up. What happens? Lowry gets bulled over by turner.

Now turner is strong, and is a great RB, but NO ONE should be able to break a tackle and drop a Saftey on his arse at the same time.

Do you think, ed reed, palamaulbeast, sanders, any good Saftey would have had that happen to them? Of course not, they would have let him have it. Worst case is they would have made the tackle, instead of being tackled.

Thats why when the draft rolls around you will see, despite who else is left on the boards us take a Saftey in rd 1. Only exception is if guys like chung, etc can show during combine they are just as good as rolle/mays. As there are 2-3 Eltie safteys and another 2-3 excellent safties we might wait, if the excellent guys can show they are just as good.

But i doubt it.

We need a saftey bad, and we will take one regarless of who is on the board.

CoachChaz
11-17-2008, 01:58 PM
Sanders is doing all kinds of great things for that Indianapolis 26th ranked run defense.

I understand what you are saying about the importance of a top level safety, but without a significant pass rush or solid middle defense...even a stud safety cant fix everything.

NameUsedBefore
11-17-2008, 02:01 PM
I'm leaning more towards a middle-line backer at this point. A safety is probably the least valuable position on the defense-hierarchy. I'd put defensive-line first, but I think we're much better there than at linebacker where it's just a slideshow of players.

G_Money
11-17-2008, 02:03 PM
A stud safety is harder to screw up than a DL though. Safety or MLB should be our ONLY first-round options, unless Shanny loses his damn mind and decides to go RB.

Pass rush can be schemed to some extent. Lining a safety up at the LOS and then having him bail out at full-speed to get into deep coverage like Palumalu sometimes does can only be done by a stud.

Adding one wouldn't instantly make us top 10, but it would provide a valuable piece of the puzzle for the next DC, with a low bust factor. Here's hopin.

~G

LRtagger
11-17-2008, 02:05 PM
A stud safety is harder to screw up than a DL though. Safety or MLB should be our ONLY first-round options, unless Shanny loses his damn mind and decides to go RB.

Pass rush can be schemed to some extent. Lining a safety up at the LOS and then having him bail out at full-speed to get into deep coverage like Palumalu sometimes does can only be done by a stud.

Adding one wouldn't instantly make us top 10, but it would provide a valuable piece of the puzzle for the next DC, with a low bust factor. Here's hopin.

~G


Best part of the post :D

BroncoFanatic
11-17-2008, 02:25 PM
I'd love to see a top notch safety back there, but that is rarely a position that is (or needs to be) drafted in the first round. MLB I will wait to judge on, based on whether Larsen can continue what he's started. If he does, this need goes *poof*

At this point, I'd put DE, DT, and RB as first round options, IMO

CoachChaz
11-17-2008, 02:33 PM
Larsen is a capable MLB, but given the opportunity to take Laurinaitis, Maualuga or Spikes...I'd jump all over it. There is a significant difference between STUD and CAPABLE.

Example: Kieth Bullock is capable...Patrick Willis is stud. FWIW, Larsen will most likley not be as good as either of them.

BroncoFanatic
11-17-2008, 02:56 PM
Larsen is a capable MLB, but given the opportunity to take Laurinaitis, Maualuga or Spikes...I'd jump all over it. There is a significant difference between STUD and CAPABLE.

Example: Kieth Bullock is capable...Patrick Willis is stud. FWIW, Larsen will most likley not be as good as either of them.

You could very well be right, but he needs more than one game as starter to show us his potential. In my mind, he should be the starting MLB for the remainder of the season so we know if one of those guys you mention should be on our radar.

CoachChaz
11-17-2008, 03:02 PM
You could very well be right, but he needs more than one game as starter to show us his potential. In my mind, he should be the starting MLB for the remainder of the season so we know if one of those guys you mention should be on our radar.

I dont disagree at all with hism finishing the season...but at this point, he's simply not going to improve on his natual athletic skills all that much.

Let's see what he an do and go from there, but I have a good feeling we'll be looking to pick up a MLB on day one of the draft.

NameUsedBefore
11-17-2008, 03:03 PM
Patrick Willis is a good example of what a stud MLB can do for a defense.

CoachChaz
11-17-2008, 03:06 PM
Patrick Willis is a good example of what a stud MLB can do for a defense.

Absolutely...I just see Maualuga, Laurainitis and Spikes coming closer to that level than I do Larsen.

Lonestar
11-17-2008, 03:16 PM
Absolutely...I just see Maualuga, Laurainitis and Spikes coming closer to that level than I do Larsen.

But I'd rather have that super stud Safety and go with a lesser talent at MLB..

IMO they make the defense better faster, shutting down the center of the field forces the offense to be one dimensional..

A MLB does little much past the LOS.. Might force the offense to go to the pass and unless we stud up the DE area we get passed on all day..

CoachChaz
11-17-2008, 03:20 PM
But I'd rather have that super stud Safety and go with a lesser talent at MLB..

IMO they make the defense better faster, shutting down the center of the field forces the offense to be one dimensional..

A MLB does little much past the LOS.. Might force the offense to go to the pass and unless we stud up the DE area we get passed on all day..

I think in passing situations, we could be fine with Moss and Dumer on the edges. Use a defense that actually mans up to a receiver and maybe they will get more than 2 seconds to get to the QB.

I guess I just dont understand drafting 2 safeties (Woodyard and Barrett) and not giving them a shot...then going out and maybe signing another one or drafting another one. How the hell do you ever find out if the guys you already have will work or not unless you play them and see.

Lonestar
11-17-2008, 03:31 PM
I think in passing situations, we could be fine with Moss and Dumer on the edges. Use a defense that actually mans up to a receiver and maybe they will get more than 2 seconds to get to the QB.

I guess I just dont understand drafting 2 safeties (Woodyard and Barrett) and not giving them a shot...then going out and maybe signing another one or drafting another one. How the hell do you ever find out if the guys you already have will work or not unless you play them and see.

mikey always has to play games with converting players to other positions..

Remember he paid bucks (Not big bucks) for FA to come in and play Safety and until they can't play they will stay there..

It is an ego thingy with mikey.. and frankly I do not think any of the coaches have the NADS to tell him he is wrong..

That is why he needs to have the DC not to report to him.. But to PAT if necessary.. or a REAL GM if Pat would bring them in..

underrated29
11-17-2008, 03:33 PM
I LIKE WHat you are saying coach with barrett.

I want to see barrett and a mays/rolle back there. I like wes a lot, and as a saftey this year, ok- why not. But I doubt he will beat out barrett, and i doubt he will be heads and shoulders above what we currently have. I am sure he can be better, because our safties suck, but not as much better.

We need depth at WLB and he is perfect for it.


By the way- if we do take a #1 S- i will mark this thread and see if we do end up a top 10, because i believe we will, with just that 1 position...

Agreed MLB, OLB, DT,DE are needs- RB more or less too- but wait and see.

I will post my mock fairly soon, and it will be more in line than just S. For now though----


Seriously, anyone who gets flattened on their ass, by a runner who is tied up- i mean WTF.

Wr used to fear running across our middle as they would get knocked the f out. Not anymore.

RB used to be weary about staying up after getting contact, and go down. Now they just keep spinning and moving because they know, no one will bring down the hammer onthem.

Atwater did that, sanders does that, palamaul, reed, williams etc. They dont take prisoners, they dont allow passes to be caught over the middle, they dont allow the runner to get past them or deliver the punishment.


Our Run D, actually hasnt been as piss poor lately. We shut the run down pretty well, but then we give up the big play. Its always the big play that burns us. How often will we get burned, by LJ and have our corners chase him down? Not often with a stud.

CoachChaz
11-17-2008, 03:36 PM
But I like Barret more as a FS because of his speed. Put him at FS and Wes at SS and good lord do we have some serious lumber in the secondary

dogfish
11-17-2008, 03:37 PM
A stud safety is harder to screw up than a DL though. Safety or MLB should be our ONLY first-round options, unless Shanny loses his damn mind and decides to go RB.



~G


i'd take mccoy-chung-beckwith and not complain. . . . especially if moore, mays and spikes are already off the board when we pick. . . .

NameUsedBefore
11-17-2008, 03:38 PM
I don't think a premier safety can beat out a premier linebacker in terms of impact. IMO, if you take away the run-game a team will have trouble passing even if your secondary is garbage. Some teams have gotten away with scrubs in the second level with that kind of strategy.

LRtagger
11-17-2008, 03:41 PM
Absolutely...I just see Maualuga, Laurainitis and Spikes coming closer to that level than I do Larsen.

His comment about Patrick Willis was sarcasm in regards to your comment about Sanders (I think).

Patrick Willis plays for the 29th ranked defense in the league, but is arguably the best MLB in the league.

CoachChaz
11-17-2008, 03:42 PM
I don't think a premier safety can beat out a premier linebacker in terms of impact. IMO, if you take away the run-game a team will have trouble passing even if your secondary is garbage. Some teams have gotten away with scrubs in the second level with that kind of strategy.

Just look at the top 10 pass defenses in the NFL right now. How many Pro-Bowlers can you count out of 40 potentials? The key to all those teams is a VERY solid front 7

underrated29
11-17-2008, 03:47 PM
I don't think a premier safety can beat out a premier linebacker in terms of impact. IMO, if you take away the run-game a team will have trouble passing even if your secondary is garbage. Some teams have gotten away with scrubs in the second level with that kind of strategy.

YEs i do agree a Stud MLB can also be a game changer, big time!

But a stud S, can also improve the run game greatly, as well as improve our Pass Defense.

Lonestar
11-17-2008, 03:49 PM
Just look at the top 10 pass defenses in the NFL right now. How many Pro-Bowlers can you count out of 40 potentials? The key to all those teams is a VERY solid front 7

Right now we have really no one that you could count on consistently to be considered solid..

solid:

DJ should be.


marginal:

Thomas ?
Robertson can be a load but for how long..
DOOM/moss pass rush only
..

uber weak:

MLB
SAM
and backups for all positions
..

really uber weak:

coaching

G_Money
11-17-2008, 03:50 PM
When I was talking about drafting Woodyard it was with the intention of either getting him as a Will to replace a departing DJ or as a safety conversion to a hammer-hard killer in the defensive backfield. Woodyard would be a tremendous run-stopper as a safety and his 4.5 speed holds up well compared to other run-stopping safeties. But we didn’t try it.

Maybe we will, now that we’ve seen how he plays and that he’s a guy you want on the field. Even if we don’t think Barrett can start, add Pegues as a FS, Woodyard as a SS, and see what happens. If Wes can’t play safety in the bigs, then Barrett gets another year of training under his belt and maybe he can do it then.

I could definitely get behind a defense that featured (let’s say) Terrell Suggs at DE, a defensive backfield of Champ/Bly at the corners, Pegues/Woodyard at the safeties with Barrett and Jack Williams as backups, and a LB corps of Williams/Spikes/whoever.

I can survive with our current DTs. I would draft more, obviously, but I can live with it. Get me a run-stuffing end and then a killer like Suggs to help in the pass-rush and I like our chances a lot better.

I doubt the Broncos do that, but I could certainly get behind it.

~G

CoachChaz
11-17-2008, 03:51 PM
His comment about Patrick Willis was sarcasm in regards to your comment about Sanders (I think).

Patrick Willis plays for the 29th ranked defense in the league, but is arguably the best MLB in the league.

But they are 17th against the run and dont have much talent up front to help Willis out.

NameUsedBefore
11-17-2008, 03:54 PM
Yes I was being sincere about Willis. I've watched the dude play; he dominates the **** out of anything that comes his way and not only that he can cover the entire field and he is surrounded by a lot of nothing.

eessydo
11-17-2008, 04:04 PM
I still see DT as our biggest issue. We still lack that size at the point of attack which allows guards and centers to stand up our DT's one on one and gets OL's out on our LB's in the run game. Once that back passes the second tier he is one on one with the safety and it is 50/50 on that coin flip.

We allow too many big running plays and we have cogs but lack the definitive piece on that DL to give our LB's a chance to make a play.

LRtagger
11-17-2008, 04:05 PM
But they are 17th against the run and dont have much talent up front to help Willis out.

You could say essentially the same thing for Sanders, couldnt you?

Plus, they are ranked 26th against the run this year, but they have been drastically better with him back in the lineup. I believe he missed the first few games didnt he?

Dreadnought
11-17-2008, 04:16 PM
I can see no downside risk to giving Barrett some playing time, starting immediately. Calvin Lowry effectively makes us try to play defense with ten guys. I just can't remember a Bronco in a starting role, ever, that brings less to the table than this chump. Hell, try to bring back Hamza Abdullah for that matter. Find out what Eric Brown is doing these days. Lowry is simply awful, and has no asset that I can see.

CoachChaz
11-17-2008, 04:17 PM
When I was talking about drafting Woodyard it was with the intention of either getting him as a Will to replace a departing DJ or as a safety conversion to a hammer-hard killer in the defensive backfield. Woodyard would be a tremendous run-stopper as a safety and his 4.5 speed holds up well compared to other run-stopping safeties. But we didn’t try it.

Maybe we will, now that we’ve seen how he plays and that he’s a guy you want on the field. Even if we don’t think Barrett can start, add Pegues as a FS, Woodyard as a SS, and see what happens. If Wes can’t play safety in the bigs, then Barrett gets another year of training under his belt and maybe he can do it then.

I could definitely get behind a defense that featured (let’s say) Terrell Suggs at DE, a defensive backfield of Champ/Bly at the corners, Pegues/Woodyard at the safeties with Barrett and Jack Williams as backups, and a LB corps of Williams/Spikes/whoever.

I can survive with our current DTs. I would draft more, obviously, but I can live with it. Get me a run-stuffing end and then a killer like Suggs to help in the pass-rush and I like our chances a lot better.

I doubt the Broncos do that, but I could certainly get behind it.

~G

I'd go a different route. I'd take a look at signing Dansby to play in the middle, put Woodyard and Barrett at safeties and look at drafting an Aaron Curry to fill the LB corps. I'm okay with DE's that are better at rushing than run stopping if we have the LB's and safeties to pick up the slack.

Cutler6MVP
11-17-2008, 04:25 PM
This is a joke right? We dont have a pass rush, and we cant stop the run? Who knows if we can cover guys, no one can judge this until we get a pass rush.

G_Money
11-17-2008, 04:31 PM
I'd go a different route. I'd take a look at signing Dansby to play in the middle, put Woodyard and Barrett at safeties and look at drafting an Aaron Curry to fill the LB corps. I'm okay with DE's that are better at rushing than run stopping if we have the LB's and safeties to pick up the slack.

This plan also gets my approval.

I'm flexible - I don't need the Broncos to do it MY way as long as they do it a RIGHT way.

~G

NameUsedBefore
11-17-2008, 04:35 PM
I will say that we do need some sort of improvement at safety. I think we can probably find it outside the draft. They are pretty much non-factors right now and I still don't really know who Lowry is besides some guy paid to look absolutely lost for a few hours on Sundays.

GEM
11-17-2008, 04:58 PM
Sanders is doing all kinds of great things for that Indianapolis 26th ranked run defense.

I understand what you are saying about the importance of a top level safety, but without a significant pass rush or solid middle defense...even a stud safety cant fix everything.

As has been proven with Champ.

broncohead
11-17-2008, 05:29 PM
I feel that DE is still a big weakness. With the depth at safety we can wait till the 2nd round to grap one then look for a LB in the 3rd. Also if Woodyard plays well for the rest of the season he could remain the starter with yet another DJ move. We'll see what happens.

omac
11-17-2008, 07:16 PM
I think we hire a proven DC with a somewhat standard defense first, then let him influence our draft, similar to what we did with Bates. I also stress standard, because we might end up with a tweener/situational player like Jarvis Moss if the DC has eccentric tastes.

Slowik still has the rest of the season to prove himself, and though the defense is improving, I doubt he stays DC next season. If he does stay DC, then I hope we go with the best defender available.

JKcatch724
11-17-2008, 07:49 PM
I feel that DE is still a big weakness. With the depth at safety we can wait till the 2nd round to grap one then look for a LB in the 3rd. Also if Woodyard plays well for the rest of the season he could remain the starter with yet another DJ move. We'll see what happens.

DJ will not be forced to move again. The fact that he has so much IMO is mind boggling. Dude has so much talent and they don't let him stick in one place. If Woodyard keeps it up, he'll be the one moving, and Boss will be out of a starting job.

DenBronx
11-17-2008, 08:44 PM
Larsen is a capable MLB, but given the opportunity to take Laurinaitis, Maualuga or Spikes...I'd jump all over it. There is a significant difference between STUD and CAPABLE.

Example: Kieth Bullock is capable...Patrick Willis is stud. FWIW, Larsen will most likley not be as good as either of them.

i want laurinaitis from ohio stae in the 1st and brunton from notre dame in the 4th.

atogwe is a free agent out of st louis and would be a nice offseason pick up.

DenBronx
11-17-2008, 08:46 PM
DJ will not be forced to move again. The fact that he has so much IMO is mind boggling. Dude has so much talent and they don't let him stick in one place. If Woodyard keeps it up, he'll be the one moving, and Boss will be out of a starting job.

id like to see this

DJ/LARSEN/WOODYARD

boss bailey and his contract can find the door. webster and niko can follow him...

JKcatch724
11-17-2008, 08:59 PM
I was ecstatic about getting both Larsen and Woodyard. They're the type of guys that are just football players that don't fit the typical "mold" these NFL scouts have created. Both were absolute beasts in college.

The boss from Office Space needs to pay a visit to Webster and Boss and give them the news.

"Yeaaaa, so.... listen. We're gonna need you guys to go ahead and ummm, take a hike. Mmmkay? Greeeaaatt."

broncohead
11-17-2008, 10:00 PM
DJ will not be forced to move again. The fact that he has so much IMO is mind boggling. Dude has so much talent and they don't let him stick in one place. If Woodyard keeps it up, he'll be the one moving, and Boss will be out of a starting job.

DJ would be better suited as the SAM. It would be tough for Woodyard to handle the strong side with his size.

tubby
11-17-2008, 11:01 PM
Steve Atwater

gobroncsnv
11-17-2008, 11:14 PM
Patrick Willis is a good example of what a stud MLB can do for a defense.


Haynesworth is a good example of what a stud DT can do for a defense... watch the Titans when he's not there. Wholly different defense without him.

Lonestar
11-17-2008, 11:32 PM
DJ would be better suited as the SAM. It would be tough for Woodyard to handle the strong side with his size.


Lets try this again.. DJ said he will not play SAM.. GET IT..

They are the same size give or take 4 pounds.. NOW do you get it??.

BeefStew25
11-17-2008, 11:34 PM
Lets try this again.. DJ said he will not play SAM.. GET IT..

They are the same size give or take 4 pounds.. NOW do you get it??.

Jr, you seem to be in a worse mood after we win.

Lonestar
11-17-2008, 11:37 PM
Jr, you seem to be in a worse mood after we win.


Just have a thing about folks making redundant posts that have ZERO chance of happening..

And I guess I'm pissed at not being able to see the game.. hopefully there will be a NFL replay of it.. Since it involved a East coast team perhaps they will..

BeefStew25
11-17-2008, 11:42 PM
Just have a thing about folks making redundant posts that have ZERO chance of happening..

And I guess I'm pissed at not being able to see the game.. hopefully there will be a NFL replay of it.. Since it involved a East coast team perhaps they will..

You need to so you can at least admit Tater did not hurt us.

Um, no sports bar? And how was the game not on down there? I guess you are bunched in with the rest of Texas.

My dad gets every game on regular TV.

Lonestar
11-17-2008, 11:50 PM
You need to so you can at least admit Tater did not hurt us.

Um, no sports bar? And how was the game not on down there? I guess you are bunched in with the rest of Texas.

My dad gets every game on regular TV.

Actaully I get east and west coast feeds on DIRECT TV for CBS so I get most games..

I was coming back from watching my daughter play VB and her boyfriend play football in OKC..

I was on a flight 3 minutes before the game started and by the time I got home I was unable to get the game on TV and when I tried to watch it streaming the first sight I used gave me audio and never the video.. and when I finally found a link on Justin TV it was grainy and jerky and only saw the last TWO plays.. tater runs wide and going down nine yards gain without being touched or so it seemed as I said the picture was small grainy and jerky and then a great block by Hillis I think he got another 5 yards or so to seal the first down and win..

So I am hoping for a NFL channel replay.. so I can see what several are having orgasms about tater and his running..

Since we are in the state of texas the local channel feel the need to feed HOU and DAL whenever tehy are playing..

Gamechanger
11-17-2008, 11:59 PM
it starts in the trenches right? well once he's healthy go after John McCargo, what I seen from him, when given snaps he's good to stuff a few runs, he's also a good 3 tech DT so thats some pass rush, you guys have the same DT woes like us i'm seeing, if ya'll go after a DT in the draft too, I wouln't blame you guys

Superchop 7
11-18-2008, 12:07 AM
I'm leaning more towards a middle-line backer at this point. A safety is probably the least valuable position on the defense-hierarchy. I'd put defensive-line first, but I think we're much better there than at linebacker where it's just a slideshow of players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with MLB.

That being said.....

I just watched the Superbowl against the Packers.

Atwater was amazing, a safety can be a game changer.

IMO, this is the best draft for safeties in a long time.

Great value in the 2nd round.

So, 1st round MLB, package a deal to get two picks in the second for a FS and SS, from the 3rd on down get linemen, use multiple picks and sort em out at camp.

SmilinAssasSin27
11-18-2008, 07:30 AM
Patrick Willis is a good example of what a stud MLB can do for a defense.

SF's defense is terrible...even w/ all those overpaid FAs.

SmilinAssasSin27
11-18-2008, 07:33 AM
I see it this way...we have Larsen, Woodyard, Boss, DJ, Webster, etc...


We have absolutely nothing that shows ANY type of potential at either Safety spot. Safety is clearly the more glaring need.

However, if we are going MLB/S in rounds 1 and 2, there are more capable Ss than MLBs in those 2 rounds.

gobroncsnv
11-18-2008, 08:01 AM
So I guess our pass rush is set, huh?

Any sacks last game? Um, no.... How bout the game before? I see improvement in some of our players up front, but so far they are not worth the cost of the stamp to write home about with regards to consistent, INsistent pressure. When you have to do a sell-out blitz to get decent pressure (and you STILL don't get the QB down), doesn't that indicate a more glaring problem?
Now, nothing in that paragraph is intended to make anyone think I'm ok with the play of our safeties. But, just as skill players become worthless if you have a bad oline, the same holds true on defense. Then again, I'm one of those dinosaurs who happen to think that the line of scrimmage is where the bread gets buttered, on either side of the ball.
Polamalu is great, as is Reed... But was Lynch a better safety at Tampa, or with us in ANY of his 4 years here? Look for the missing ingredient for those 4 situations, and I think you'll find it's the dline, Pburgh's is very good, Baltimore's is great, Tampa's WAS great, and ours...

lex
11-18-2008, 08:55 AM
So I guess our pass rush is set, huh?

Any sacks last game? Um, no.... How bout the game before? I see improvement in some of our players up front, but so far they are not worth the cost of the stamp to write home about with regards to consistent, INsistent pressure. When you have to do a sell-out blitz to get decent pressure (and you STILL don't get the QB down), doesn't that indicate a more glaring problem?
Now, nothing in that paragraph is intended to make anyone think I'm ok with the play of our safeties. But, just as skill players become worthless if you have a bad oline, the same holds true on defense. Then again, I'm one of those dinosaurs who happen to think that the line of scrimmage is where the bread gets buttered, on either side of the ball.
Polamalu is great, as is Reed... But was Lynch a better safety at Tampa, or with us in ANY of his 4 years here? Look for the missing ingredient for those 4 situations, and I think you'll find it's the dline, Pburgh's is very good, Baltimore's is great, Tampa's WAS great, and ours...

When you give 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 4, thats a quick, easy read and it makes it hard to get pressure. The 10 yard cushions cripple the pass rush.

Dreadnought
11-18-2008, 09:16 AM
I see it this way...we have Larsen, Woodyard, Boss, DJ, Webster, etc...


We have absolutely nothing that shows ANY type of potential at either Safety spot. Safety is clearly the more glaring need.

However, if we are going MLB/S in rounds 1 and 2, there are more capable Ss than MLBs in those 2 rounds.

You nailed it. We might have the makings of a real live LB corps in hand already - the next 6+ weeks will say a lot. Safety is such a dreadful position of weakness that we need to start addressing that the minute the season ends.

CoachChaz
11-18-2008, 09:35 AM
Aggressively pursue Dansby!!!

If we can lock up a stud like that, then it makes things alot easier. At that point, we can go with the best defensive player available in the first round. I really think Woodyard would be fine at SS and I'd like to see Barrett play. It will really piss me off if we go looking for FA safeties or draft some higher if we potentially have an answer already on the roster.

G_Money
11-18-2008, 10:59 AM
Our FA acquisitions will have to drive the process.

If we get Suggs, then we don’t need to draft a DE early.

If we get Dansby, then LB should be crossed off the list.

But unless they announce that Woodyard is moving to safety the day the season is over, I’m still gonna have safety as a HIGH priority. Barrett has all the talent in the world but was a tentative player in college and hasn’t set foot on the field in the pros yet. I liked his ST work and he was good against the run in the preseason, but that’s a long way from being a quality safety, especially a FS. Woodyard would be playing the S position for the first time in 4ish years, since he was a freshman in college. He’s gonna need some SERIOUS tutoring.

If they tell him in December and he has all off-season to get his body and mind right about it, terrific. I’d be down with that. If they tell him in July after Manuel’s spleen spontaneously ejects from his worthless body, then that’s an issue. We can’t go into next season with the same terrible safeties we’ve had in this one. Even if our pass rush improves the book’s gonna read, “throw it to whoever the safety is covering, they can’t defend or tackle worth shit.”

Find a way to get Woodyard on the field. Find me at least ONE quality safety. If those things are linked, fine. If they’re separate, fine. If they don’t happen…Hulk smash.

~G

CoachChaz
11-18-2008, 11:05 AM
That's the part that annoys me. Once DJ comes back, I guarantee you that Woodyard will be relegated to spot duty. Unless we trade DJ, I figure Wes will be wasted on the bench.

NightTrainLayne
11-18-2008, 11:44 AM
That's the part that annoys me. Once DJ comes back, I guarantee you that Woodyard will be relegated to spot duty. Unless we trade DJ, I figure Wes will be wasted on the bench.

Can Woodyard play well enough to give himself some trade value? Who says it has to be DJ we trade?

CoachChaz
11-18-2008, 12:59 PM
Can Woodyard play well enough to give himself some trade value? Who says it has to be DJ we trade?

What would you give up for an undrafted rookie that doesnt have a true position?

Dreadnought
11-18-2008, 01:02 PM
What would you give up for an undrafted rookie that doesnt have a true position?

Exactly. Just because some of us here think Woodyard is a real asset doesnm't mean he could command anything on the open market

G_Money
11-18-2008, 01:42 PM
That's the part that annoys me. Once DJ comes back, I guarantee you that Woodyard will be relegated to spot duty. Unless we trade DJ, I figure Wes will be wasted on the bench.

Yep. Unless our next DC is much better than what we've had recently and has some job security, I can't see him risking his head on a SS conversion for Woodyard and a 7th round draftpick who hasn't seen any game action as a starter next year.

When DJ comes back, Woodyard's back to backup. Winborn's gonna play the Sam, and I'd think Webster will take back the starting job in the middle at the end of the year if he's healthy too.

Now that may not be so bad - if the coaching staff wants to see Webster in our D now that they've settled down a bit, compared to Larsen in the same D, okay. In theory, Webster would come up short to Larsen, and Larsen would be adequate but not worth passing over a highly-talented MLB in the draft should one be available.

In practice I can see us going back out there next year with DJ/Webster/Winborn as the starters, Larsen and Woodyard as backups and ST champs, and one new safety who will not be named Barrett.

You might see me rant a little if that happens. :coffee:

~G

CoachChaz
11-18-2008, 02:32 PM
You might see me rant a little if that happens. :coffee:

~G

...and rightfully so.

LRtagger
11-18-2008, 03:05 PM
Actaully I get east and west coast feeds on DIRECT TV for CBS so I get most games..

I was coming back from watching my daughter play VB and her boyfriend play football in OKC..

I was on a flight 3 minutes before the game started and by the time I got home I was unable to get the game on TV and when I tried to watch it streaming the first sight I used gave me audio and never the video.. and when I finally found a link on Justin TV it was grainy and jerky and only saw the last TWO plays.. tater runs wide and going down nine yards gain without being touched or so it seemed as I said the picture was small grainy and jerky and then a great block by Hillis I think he got another 5 yards or so to seal the first down and win..

So I am hoping for a NFL channel replay.. so I can see what several are having orgasms about tater and his running..

Since we are in the state of texas the local channel feel the need to feed HOU and DAL whenever tehy are playing..


They are replaying the game TONIGHT on NFL Network

xzn
11-18-2008, 03:11 PM
No one talks about Boss Bailey. I know he's out for the season, but did I miss something? Is his injury career threatening or is this a pile on and everyone just thinks that he's going to be perpetually injured? Or do people just think he's a total waste of skin...

Seems to me that if he can stay healthy (which is a major IF) then we have OLB pretty well set. I agree with the MLB talk on this thread. With Winborn and Woodyard and Spencer we have apparently some quality depth but I don't think any of those guys are long term starters.

If we can get a Laurenitis, Mauluga, Brian Cushing we need to pull the trigger.

As for safety, I saw a bunch of names that did not include Taylor Mays. Is the assumption that he will be gone when we draft? He destroys worlds!

LRtagger
11-18-2008, 03:18 PM
Yes Mays will be gone by the time we draft. I believe he will be a top 10 guy...definitely a top 15 and we will probably be drafting in the 20's.

horsepig
11-18-2008, 04:28 PM
Give Larsen a chance! That guy changed our entire defense Sunday. Ask Gradisher if being the biggest, fastest dude out there for the better, more effective FOOTBALL player. I'm no expert on college talent, don't have the time to catch many games but, I have watched Laurinaitus a couple games this year and he looked like the 2nd best backer on that team. I was not impressed, he gets lost in LOS traffic and comes out too late to make the play.

I know its only one game but, Larsen and Woodyard give our D some energy and balls.

horsepig
11-18-2008, 04:30 PM
Right now I look for Safeties and DTs in the draft.

topscribe
11-18-2008, 04:48 PM
I dont disagree at all with hism finishing the season...but at this point, he's simply not going to improve on his natual athletic skills all that much.

Let's see what he an do and go from there, but I have a good feeling we'll be looking to pick up a MLB on day one of the draft.

I think you're underestimating Larsen's athletic abilities a bit, Coach.

It's a bit early to write him off in the middle, while I admit it's also early to
crown him the next Brian Urlacker.

But it looks to me as if many of the front seven are growing up. Run defense
has improved over the last three games, and, while Denver didn't get a sack
against Atlanta, they did move the QB around quite a bit.

It just looked to me that the secondary has gotten thoroughly shredded, and
the safety position sticks out as possibly the worst in the league. If Larsen
indeed shapes up as a good MLB, then I'm looking at safety, too. We need
to replace those boys with men . . .

-----

Requiem / The Dagda
11-18-2008, 04:50 PM
Every position on this defense is upgradeable. Don't kid around.

LRtagger
11-18-2008, 05:09 PM
Every position on this defense is upgradeable. Don't kid around.


Yes, but unfortunately we can not upgrade every position with one draft...so we must prioritize.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-18-2008, 05:20 PM
Yes, but unfortunately we can not upgrade every position with one draft...so we must prioritize.

I don't agree with this completely.

As it stands, Denver has extra selections in the fifth and seventh rounds. If Foxworth re-signs with Atanta, that seventh goes up to a sixth. I have a feeling Denver will look to acquire more picks or trade somehow to either improve the # of their selections or where they will be selecting.

So, Denver has nine picks as of right now (could be less pending the Robertson trade; based on playing time, etc.) -- we could upgrade each of the areas in our defense. Secondary, linebackers and defensive line. Hell, we could double dip in some areas. No, I'm not saying we could draft a RDE, LDE, NT, DT, LCB, RCB, SS and a FS (actually, if we wanted to -- we could) -- but we can at least improve each of those areas with a quality prospect.

Given the fact that some younger players (rookies) have been seeing some time on defense and will continue to see time, perhaps some voids we see now will not be considered as such at season's end.

At any case, Denver needs to get another player in each of the aforementioned three categories, if not an additional player pending the rest of the season. They can do this. There is always free agency as well. I'm for upgrades all over the place. Everywhere.

We have nine picks, so I wouldn't sell our ability in doing so short -- considering the success we've had in the past few drafts. This team has been ravaged by injuries, but some of those injuries could have been a blessing in disguise.

We'll see.

turftoad
11-18-2008, 05:28 PM
In all reallity, picks in the first three rounds should be counted on to contribute. The later picks should be concidered as depth. We need starters on "D".

Yes, I know there are exceptions to the rule and some of the later rounders will contribute but then again, some of the early rounders won't.

I will not look for 4th-6th rounder to be starters.

We still need help on "D", bottom line.

NameUsedBefore
11-18-2008, 05:34 PM
No one talks about Boss Bailey. I know he's out for the season, but did I miss something? Is his injury career threatening or is this a pile on and everyone just thinks that he's going to be perpetually injured? Or do people just think he's a total waste of skin...

Seems to me that if he can stay healthy (which is a major IF) then we have OLB pretty well set. I agree with the MLB talk on this thread. With Winborn and Woodyard and Spencer we have apparently some quality depth but I don't think any of those guys are long term starters.

If we can get a Laurenitis, Mauluga, Brian Cushing we need to pull the trigger.

As for safety, I saw a bunch of names that did not include Taylor Mays. Is the assumption that he will be gone when we draft? He destroys worlds!

He sucks.

Slick
11-18-2008, 05:36 PM
shawshank brought this up earlier, but why can't Barrett see the field. He can't be any worse than Lowry. I know we're positioning ourselves for the playoffs, and that excites me, but I don't see how giving this kid some playing time can hurt us at this point. Let's evaluate his play on the field.

Woodyard needs to stay on the field when DJ comes back. Others have said play him at SS and I'm behind that. He is always around the ball, and none of our SS's have been so why not?

We have benefited by having injuries to some of the veterans on defense. Let these kids play.

SmilinAssasSin27
11-18-2008, 05:36 PM
No one talks about Boss Bailey. I know he's out for the season, but did I miss something? Is his injury career threatening or is this a pile on and everyone just thinks that he's going to be perpetually injured? Or do people just think he's a total waste of skin...

Seems to me that if he can stay healthy (which is a major IF) then we have OLB pretty well set. I agree with the MLB talk on this thread. With Winborn and Woodyard and Spencer we have apparently some quality depth but I don't think any of those guys are long term starters.

If we can get a Laurenitis, Mauluga, Brian Cushing we need to pull the trigger.

As for safety, I saw a bunch of names that did not include Taylor Mays. Is the assumption that he will be gone when we draft? He destroys worlds!

It says a lot when LIONS fans were happy to see him go.

SmilinAssasSin27
11-18-2008, 05:39 PM
I don't agree with this completely.

As it stands, Denver has extra selections in the fifth and seventh rounds. If Foxworth re-signs with Atanta, that seventh goes up to a sixth. I have a feeling Denver will look to acquire more picks or trade somehow to either improve the # of their selections or where they will be selecting.

So, Denver has nine picks as of right now (could be less pending the Robertson trade; based on playing time, etc.) -- we could upgrade each of the areas in our defense. Secondary, linebackers and defensive line. Hell, we could double dip in some areas. No, I'm not saying we could draft a RDE, LDE, NT, DT, LCB, RCB, SS and a FS (actually, if we wanted to -- we could) -- but we can at least improve each of those areas with a quality prospect.

Given the fact that some younger players (rookies) have been seeing some time on defense and will continue to see time, perhaps some voids we see now will not be considered as such at season's end.

At any case, Denver needs to get another player in each of the aforementioned three categories, if not an additional player pending the rest of the season. They can do this. There is always free agency as well. I'm for upgrades all over the place. Everywhere.

We have nine picks, so I wouldn't sell our ability in doing so short -- considering the success we've had in the past few drafts. This team has been ravaged by injuries, but some of those injuries could have been a blessing in disguise.

We'll see.

I want 2 Safeties, a big DE, 2 LBs, and a RB. That's 6. The other 3 can be used to either trade up or grab more WRs, DTs and CBs.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-18-2008, 05:42 PM
It'd really depend on the position. You'll find safeties that will contribute at a high level regardless of where they are drafted because it's an easy position to transition to in the NFL. At any case, Denver should be looking to upgrade the defense with their first several selections. Outside running back and maybe another offensive position -- Denver doesn't necessarily need to use a high pick in that regard.

S and LB are big holes for us, but very deep in this draft. We could find starters anywhere from rounds 1-3; perhaps even further on. (I'd get a LB high though)

Anyhoo, I gotta run to a test. Peace kids.

turftoad
11-18-2008, 05:46 PM
It'd really depend on the position. You'll find safeties that will contribute at a high level regardless of where they are drafted because it's an easy position to transition to in the NFL. At any case, Denver should be looking to upgrade the defense with their first several selections. Outside running back and maybe another offensive position -- Denver doesn't necessarily need to use a high pick in that regard.

S and LB are big holes for us, but very deep in this draft. We could find starters anywhere from rounds 1-3; perhaps even further on. (I'd get a LB high though)

Anyhoo, I gotta run to a test. Peace kids.

Bah............. I want an Atwater/Smith type Saftey. Both of those guys were drafted in the first round.

LRtagger
11-18-2008, 06:47 PM
I don't agree with this completely.

As it stands, Denver has extra selections in the fifth and seventh rounds. If Foxworth re-signs with Atanta, that seventh goes up to a sixth. I have a feeling Denver will look to acquire more picks or trade somehow to either improve the # of their selections or where they will be selecting.

So, Denver has nine picks as of right now (could be less pending the Robertson trade; based on playing time, etc.) -- we could upgrade each of the areas in our defense. Secondary, linebackers and defensive line. Hell, we could double dip in some areas. No, I'm not saying we could draft a RDE, LDE, NT, DT, LCB, RCB, SS and a FS (actually, if we wanted to -- we could) -- but we can at least improve each of those areas with a quality prospect.

Given the fact that some younger players (rookies) have been seeing some time on defense and will continue to see time, perhaps some voids we see now will not be considered as such at season's end.

At any case, Denver needs to get another player in each of the aforementioned three categories, if not an additional player pending the rest of the season. They can do this. There is always free agency as well. I'm for upgrades all over the place. Everywhere.

We have nine picks, so I wouldn't sell our ability in doing so short -- considering the success we've had in the past few drafts. This team has been ravaged by injuries, but some of those injuries could have been a blessing in disguise.

We'll see.

My point was, even if we have 11 picks we will be lucky if even half of them pan out to be better than what we currently have.

atwater27
11-18-2008, 06:49 PM
Most important positiuon on the defense in my opinion is defensive tackle. You have 1 dominant performer, it makes the whole defense better. You have 2, your defense earns nicknames. I will take an Albert Haynesworth or Trevor Pryce any day over any other prospect you could throw at me. They are just too valuable, too hard to find.

Lonestar
11-18-2008, 07:23 PM
Most important positiuon on the defense in my opinion is defensive tackle. You have 1 dominant performer, it makes the whole defense better. You have 2, your defense earns nicknames. I will take an Albert Haynesworth or Trevor Pryce any day over any other prospect you could throw at me. They are just too valuable, too hard to find.

hanesworth and price should not be in the same sentence as comparable players..

I will agree that hanesworth, Wilfork, Seymour types can turn around most any defense.. they do not grow on trees and we will have to find one in the draft cause they rarely become available as a FA..

dogfish
11-18-2008, 08:25 PM
hanesworth and price should not be in the same sentence as comparable players..

I will agree that hanesworth, Wilfork, Seymour types can turn around most any defense.. they do not grow on trees and we will have to find one in the draft cause they rarely become available as a FA..

unfortunately there were three of them available for trade this past year, and we picked the dud of the bunch. . . .

broncohead
11-18-2008, 08:53 PM
Lets try this again.. DJ said he will not play SAM.. GET IT..

They are the same size give or take 4 pounds.. NOW do you get it??.

Is there an article saying he won't play Sam again or did he just tell tou this? It really doesn't have to be Sam that he moves to either it could be mike but he's better on the outside. I think it's funny that people have this fantasy of woodyard moving to ss. He hasn't played in years. There's just no way that will happen. The only aT he gets on the field is if he plays LB. And I thoght woodyard weighed in at 220. DJ is around 235.

tubby
11-18-2008, 10:21 PM
Earth to Jrwiz...............Woodyard is listed at 212. Infact he talked about weighing 212 today on the radio. Says he makes up for it with heart.

dogfish
11-18-2008, 11:51 PM
Is there an article saying he won't play Sam again or did he just tell tou this?

i don't have a link to it, but there was an interview with dj in the denver post during the offseason, when they'd first said they were moving him back to WILL. . . he said he didn't care if he was at WILL or MIKE, but he didn't want to play SAM again. . .

he's always been a team guy, and i'm sure that after they paid him he'd probably do it if they asked him to, but honestly i doubt it will happen. . . shanahan has said that he thinks DJ fits best at WILL, and there was a recent quote in PFW that the team thought he was playing at a pro bowl level before he got hurt. . . we never know for sure, but i'll be pretty surprised if they move him to accomodate woodyard. . . i think that's why people are speculating about other ways to get wesley on the field. . .

Requiem / The Dagda
11-18-2008, 11:57 PM
Woodyard rules. UDFA who will be a starter for us somewhere. NICE. All-SEc baby> He was a Good Dude. Most scouts just DumB.

TXBRONC
11-19-2008, 12:14 AM
In all reallity, picks in the first three rounds should be counted on to contribute. The later picks should be concidered as depth. We need starters on "D".

Yes, I know there are exceptions to the rule and some of the later rounders will contribute but then again, some of the early rounders won't.

I will not look for 4th-6th rounder to be starters.

We still need help on "D", bottom line.

Not necessarily Turf. Sometimes teams draft players knowing that they wont necessarily contribute right away.

atwater27
11-19-2008, 01:38 AM
hanesworth and price should not be in the same sentence as comparable players..
..

In his prime and before his back injury, Pryce was freaking awesome. He deserves comparison with the finest defensive tackles. It was a shame we moved him to end for other reasons. He was one of the best all around defensive lineman in Broncos history.

CoachChaz
11-19-2008, 08:28 AM
Earth to Jrwiz...............Woodyard is listed at 212. Infact he talked about weighing 212 today on the radio. Says he makes up for it with heart.

That's why he should be playing SS

roomemp
11-19-2008, 12:01 PM
Here are 2 possible players who might be able to excel in Denver. Miami's MLB Channing Crowder and SS Yeremiah Bell. I would love to see us pick up Yeremiah Bell to man one of the safety spots. I believe both are going to be free agents as well

broncohead
11-19-2008, 05:59 PM
That's why he should be playing SS

I honestly don't see this happening but I agree that he needs to get on the field some where. The only position I see him doing well at is WILL. And since DJ is a good versitile LB I see him moving. If he hates SAM so much maybe it will be MIKE. Then we will only have the SAM to fill instead of SAM and MIKE. Saves a draft pick or FA signing.

Lonestar
11-19-2008, 09:57 PM
I honestly don't see this happening but I agree that he needs to get on the field some where. The only position I see him doing well at is WILL. And since DJ is a good versitile LB I see him moving. If he hates SAM so much maybe it will be MIKE. Then we will only have the SAM to fill instead of SAM and MIKE. Saves a draft pick or FA signing.


If Woodyard is indeed 212 he will never be able to play MLB he will be hard pressed to play John Lynch's old position of safety SS. Certainly not Sam as they consistently have to go up against TE's releasing from the LOS..

So it is WILL or nothing as LB.. and DJ is tits at that spot..

SmilinAssasSin27
11-19-2008, 10:38 PM
good coaches get the best players on the field. If DJ moved to a position he HATED for Ian freakin Gold, I think he can go back to the middle for the rook.

G_Money
11-19-2008, 10:48 PM
Woodyard weighs 230. He was 220+ at the combine.

~G

BeefStew25
11-19-2008, 11:04 PM
If Woodyard is indeed 212 he will never be able to play MLB he will be hard pressed to play John Lynch's old position of safety SS. Certainly not Sam as they consistently have to go up against TE's releasing from the LOS..

So it is WILL or nothing as LB.. and DJ is tits at that spot..

Hoping for a good clean game this Sunday against your Raiders, Jr. Good luck.

JKcatch724
11-19-2008, 11:15 PM
DJ is tits at that spot..

Ummm... what?

:lol:

SmilinAssasSin27
11-19-2008, 11:20 PM
Ummm... what?

:lol:

tits are the same as breasts.

JKcatch724
11-19-2008, 11:30 PM
tits are the same as breasts.

Really?!?! No way! :eek:

My point was is that Jr's way of saying that DJ is soft, voluptuous, and perky at the WILL position?

JKcatch724
11-20-2008, 03:25 AM
good coaches get the best players on the field. If DJ moved to a position he HATED for Ian freakin Gold, I think he can go back to the middle for the rook.

Not a chance.

Lonestar
11-20-2008, 12:13 PM
Woodyard weighs 230. He was 220+ at the combine.

~G

someone on here stated he SAID he was playing at 212 on one of the TV player shows..

I had thought he was 220+ at the combine and was indeed listed at 232 on the web site..

Lonestar
11-20-2008, 12:17 PM
good coaches get the best players on the field. If DJ moved to a position he HATED for Ian freakin Gold, I think he can go back to the middle for the rook.

he was moved after his rookie year and frankly did not realize how much he disliked that position as he had never played it before..

SO now that he has played all spots and is a freak again at WIL, said he did not want to play SAM ever again why would he want to do so.. He stated he did not like Mike all that much but would play there if he had to. But SAM was OUT..

broncohead
11-20-2008, 07:25 PM
he was moved after his rookie year and frankly did not realize how much he disliked that position as he had never played it before..

SO now that he has played all spots and is a freak again at WIL, said he did not want to play SAM ever again why would he want to do so.. He stated he did not like Mike all that much but would play there if he had to. But SAM was OUT..

it really isn't his choice if he gets moved. I would rather fill 1 LB spot then have to look for 2 guys. But that makes to much sence.

Magnificent Seven
11-21-2008, 02:34 AM
Trade Daniel Graham for Troy Palamaulbeast? :D

Lonestar
11-21-2008, 02:36 AM
Trade Daniel Graham for Troy Palamaulbeast? :D


have you ever thought that they do not need a TE.. takes two to make a trade.. well that is unless your al davis then it is 1.25..

Lonestar
11-21-2008, 02:47 AM
it really isn't his choice if he gets moved. I would rather fill 1 LB spot then have to look for 2 guys. But that makes to much sence.


I'm guessing you have not ever been in a position of authority.. or ever had someone working for you..

Yes I;d rather have to fill one slot.. but if DJ is not all that excited about playing there and does a have assed job to prove his point just what have you accomplished?

Sure they can force Champ to play SAM spot, but then your screwed at the CB position..they can force anyone to play anywhere. But if they are not good at it, nor motivated then you have messed up everything by doing so..

Right now DJ is one of the top WLB in the league in a 4-3 lineup.. to move him to MLB or worse SLB and get 80% productivity out of all the spots is DUMB beyond comparison..

When you could have 100% at WLB with DJ and 80% or so out of woodyard at SLB and 90% out of larsen.. and they will only be that effective because they just do not have the experience yet..

but maybe your right, lets put round pegs into square holes just because you want them to.. Because you as a coach have the power to do so.. Everyone will give it as much as they have to and NO MORE..

TXBRONC
11-21-2008, 03:30 PM
he was moved after his rookie year and frankly did not realize how much he disliked that position as he had never played it before..

SO now that he has played all spots and is a freak again at WIL, said he did not want to play SAM ever again why would he want to do so.. He stated he did not like Mike all that much but would play there if he had to. But SAM was OUT..

The article I read months ago quoted Williams as saying he liked playing Mike and would have been perfectly content on staying at that position. He just didn't like playing the Sam position.

Lonestar
11-21-2008, 04:13 PM
The article I read months ago quoted Williams as saying he liked playing Mike and would have been perfectly content on staying at that position. He just didn't like playing the Sam position.

Thanks for your input..let me add

I heard and read it as he would play mike but much preferred Will because he was good there.. and would not play SAM unless forced to.. Which means to most folks he would do it grudgingly and would not be overly motivated about doing it..

I'm guessing if all the other LB's where to go down to injury and they had NO ONE to play it and there were no other options perhaps he would suck it up and do so.. but to be placed there and told he had not options but to play or be benched would be very counterproductive..

That is what a few on here espouse to do.....

dogfish
11-21-2008, 05:02 PM
The article I read months ago quoted Williams as saying he liked playing Mike and would have been perfectly content on staying at that position. He just didn't like playing the Sam position.

this is true, but i also remember quotes from shenanigans and the coahing staff saying that they thought dj was best at WILL and they wanted someone at MIKE who was more natural at taking on blocks-- they signed niko because they thought he would be that guy, and they also drafted larsen. . .

as fans, we can discuss the pros and cons and speculate all we want, but at the end of the day i'll be very surprised if they do move dj again-- they consider him a pro bowler at WILL, and i just can't see them playing him somewhere else to accomodate a UDFA short of absolute emergency. . .

Lonestar
11-21-2008, 05:12 PM
this is true, but i also remember quotes from shenanigans and the coahing staff saying that they thought dj was best at WILL and they wanted someone at MIKE who was more natural at taking on blocks-- they signed niko because they thought he would be that guy, and they also drafted larsen. . .

as fans, we can discuss the pros and cons and speculate all we want, but at the end of the day i'll be very surprised if they do move dj again-- they consider him a pro bowler at WILL, and i just can't see them playing him somewhere else to accomodate a UDFA short of absolute emergency. . .

well said thanks for making it clear for everyone to "get".. God knows I tried but yours was best.. :salute:

broncohead
11-21-2008, 06:40 PM
I'm guessing you have not ever been in a position of authority.. or ever had someone working for you..

Yes I;d rather have to fill one slot.. but if DJ is not all that excited about playing there and does a have assed job to prove his point just what have you accomplished?

Sure they can force Champ to play SAM spot, but then your screwed at the CB position..they can force anyone to play anywhere. But if they are not good at it, nor motivated then you have messed up everything by doing so..

Right now DJ is one of the top WLB in the league in a 4-3 lineup.. to move him to MLB or worse SLB and get 80% productivity out of all the spots is DUMB beyond comparison..

When you could have 100% at WLB with DJ and 80% or so out of woodyard at SLB and 90% out of larsen.. and they will only be that effective because they just do not have the experience yet..

but maybe your right, lets put round pegs into square holes just because you want them to.. Because you as a coach have the power to do so.. Everyone will give it as much as they have to and NO MORE..

First it was said earlier that DJ wouldn't mind playing MLB and you agreed with it. He plays good at what ever LB position he plays. I agree he is better at WILL but with the current roster and Woodyard playing well why not make room? Woodyard could easily be the 2nd best LB on the team and you want him on the bench? That just doens't make sence to me. I want to maximize the the LB positions as a whole not just for one player cause you know it's a team game right? The comment about moving Champ to LB was just a dumb comment. You overexaderate what I said to get your point accross. I never claimed to be the coach and was making discution which is what this board is for. So don't come at me with comments like that unless you don't want to have a discution anymore in which case you don't have to quote me.

56crash
11-21-2008, 07:10 PM
But I'd rather have that super stud Safety and go with a lesser talent at MLB..

IMO they make the defense better faster, shutting down the center of the field forces the offense to be one dimensional..

A MLB does little much past the LOS.. Might force the offense to go to the pass and unless we stud up the DE area we get passed on all day..

MLB is our Run stopper and you want a great Saftey mask the smell in front him hmmmmmmmmmmmm ....nope you are full of crap ...nice try

56crash
11-21-2008, 07:13 PM
First it was said earlier that DJ wouldn't mind playing MLB and you agreed with it. He plays good at what ever LB position he plays. I agree he is better at WILL but with the current roster and Woodyard playing well why not make room? Woodyard could easily be the 2nd best LB on the team and you want him on the bench? That just doens't make sence to me. I want to maximize the the LB positions as a whole not just for one player cause you know it's a team game right? The comment about moving Champ to LB was just a dumb comment. You overexaderate what I said to get your point accross. I never claimed to be the coach and was making discution which is what this board is for. So don't come at me with comments like that unless you don't want to have a discution anymore in which case you don't have to quote me.

MLB he sucked!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lonestar
11-21-2008, 08:24 PM
MLB is our Run stopper and you want a great Saftey mask the smell in front him hmmmmmmmmmmmm ....nope you are full of crap ...nice try

Actually, I miss read the thread initially if I had to chose on player in the draft to improve the Defense it would be if all were available a Stud DT..

But I stand by my original post saying I'd rather have a stud Atwater type FS closing down the center field and have a good MLB..as once the run game is slowed down the rest of the field is now open.. and is much harder to find..

How many stud FS are there Saunders, Palamolu and one or two others.. But there are alot more stud MLB's..

But they all boil down to controlling the LOS and that means DT..

Lonestar
11-21-2008, 08:29 PM
MLB he sucked!!!!!!!!!!!!

IYNSHO ..

To most everyone that really watched the games he was stuck into a bad situation and was improving game by game..

that is not to say he would make a great one since on our team MLB is supposed to receive the plays call and then make adjustments before the snap..

many thought that he was incapable of do a good job at that he seemed to be not so smart.. really great instincts but not a brain surgeon..

Sucked not just not great.. one of the reasons they moved him back to WIL so he could be all pro..

TXBRONC
11-22-2008, 03:47 PM
this is true, but i also remember quotes from shenanigans and the coahing staff saying that they thought dj was best at WILL and they wanted someone at MIKE who was more natural at taking on blocks-- they signed niko because they thought he would be that guy, and they also drafted larsen. . .

as fans, we can discuss the pros and cons and speculate all we want, but at the end of the day i'll be very surprised if they do move dj again-- they consider him a pro bowler at WILL, and i just can't see them playing him somewhere else to accomodate a UDFA short of absolute emergency. . .

I don't expect them to move DJ again because they feel he is at his best playing on the weak side. My point to JR was simply that DJ didn't say disliked playing in the Mike position nor that he would do it grudgingly. Some people (not you) like to read things into articles that aren't there.

lex
11-22-2008, 04:25 PM
All we need is Champ. If we could trade Cutler for another Champ, we should do it. Weve shown over the years that we could be successful with other QBs.

turftoad
11-22-2008, 04:42 PM
All we need is Champ. If we could trade Cutler for another Champ, we should do it. Weve shown over the years that we could be successful with other QBs.

We have??