PDA

View Full Version : Position by Position - How do the Broncos stack up? Let's talk about it.



Tned
08-01-2011, 11:55 AM
Ok, I know I'm starting to get fan tunnel vision, but when I look around the roster, things aren't as bad as I was expecting. I only have a couple minutes, so I am not going to go in depth, but will drop some thoughts and figure we can run with the conversation from there.

Offense:

QB: Clear question marks here.

RB/FB: Question marks, but with improving line, healthy White, McGahee and Fox's RB scheme, should be servicable or better (Fox claims Broncos will have the most sophisticated running game in the NFL this year). Hard to say where we are with FB. It was said that Fells might play some FB. Will we sign a true FB?

OL: Was it an ESPN insider that called it a strength and referred to them as one of the youngest and most athletic lines in the league, or something like that. I'm not sold yet, as the two second year players struggled often last year, and Franklin is an unknown.

WR: Lloyd looks to be in the same form as last year, based on camp reports, and Royal appears healthy and fast (reports again). This group can be anywhere from average to a strength, depending on what happens with Decker, Anderson, and the young guys. If DT comes back healthy, this group should eventually be a "strength"

TE: This was looking very week, but possibly up with the new signings. Based on the signings (big guys), it looks like there will be an emphasis blocking from the tight ends. Obviously, if Julius Thomas looks as good in games as he has shown in practice, he could make it an exciting position.

Defense:

DE. How will Doom fair moving back to end? How will Ayers play at end? They could be great speed rushers, or one or both of them could slip into a rotational spot (don't see Doom being relegated to pass rush spots only). In Hunter, Ayers and Beal we have three tweener type DE's, with Doom being more of a midget as some on here like to refer to him.

DT: It would seem that at the moment, the question is do our existing guys perform better moving back to a 4-3 and under Fox's tutelage. It's possible we will still pick up a DT or two, but at the moment, it doesn't look like any impact players have been added.

LB's: With Von Miller and DJ on the outside, I expect a lot of plays to be made from our OLB spots. Early reports on Miller are impressive, and we need the number two overall pick to make an impact right away. That leaves the big question at MLB and whether Irving or Mays can step up. Assuming Mays or Irving can be serviceable, this should be an area of strength unless Miller struggles as a rookie (which could easily happen).

S: Big questions here. With the release of Hill, that would indicate they probably are hoping Moore can start right away. He's impressed in practice. How much does Dawkins have left? Can McBath, McCarthy or Bruton play at starter level if Moore isn't ready? I would say there is upside potential here, but enough questions that it could be anywhere from weak to strength.

C: Wow, the Cox impregnation is a blow to this group. Even if he avoids jail, he surely will be playing distracted. Will the Broncos want to commit to him being a starter or major piece, knowing he may be gone? I assumed he would fight Goodman for the spot opposite Champ, but now I'm not sure. Obviously, Champ alone elevates the corners a bunch, since he allows coverage help to be rolled to the other side. However, Goodman is serviceable at best. I'm not sure Thompson is more than a dime back (although he showed nice flashes last year), and see Vaughn as more of a fill in/dime guy. So, I'm not really sure where to rate this. I don't see this being a weakness, but there are enough questions for it not to be a strength.

So, there are definitely questions up and down the starting lineup, but I don't see many "we are going to be awful in this area" spots.

Tned
08-01-2011, 02:12 PM
WTF, you guys are leaving me hanging here. No thoughts? No comments on where you think the individual positions stand?

vettesplus
08-01-2011, 02:15 PM
all i can say is maybe a 6-10 season

T.K.O.
08-01-2011, 02:17 PM
Sydquan Thompson baby.....Sydquan Thompson.....defense solved !:D

T.K.O.
08-01-2011, 02:18 PM
i predict our D will be better than last......
;)

Dzone
08-01-2011, 02:22 PM
Too bad Cox is such a loser off the field.
TE has become a strength IMO. Julius Thomas looks to be an impact player. That could be huge.
Fells will mean the end to Dick Quinn. Goodbye to another Mcd blunder.

Tned
08-01-2011, 02:24 PM
Too bad Cox is such a loser off the field.
TE has become a strength IMO. Julius Thomas looks to be an impact player. That could be huge.
Fells will mean the end to Dick Quinn. Goodbye to another Mcd blunder.

It sounds like the big question with Julius Thomas (JT as they are now referring to him) is how much time it will take him to get polished. He appears to be fast with natural talent, but only played something like one year of college ball.

Lonestar
08-01-2011, 02:25 PM
OL: Was it an ESPN insider that called it a strength and referred to them as one of the youngest and most athletic lines in the league, or something like that. I'm not sold yet, as the two second year players struggled often last year, and Franklin is an unknown.

think you meant two Rookies that they will be second year players

Softskull
08-01-2011, 02:35 PM
WTF, you guys are leaving me hanging here. No thoughts? No comments on where you think the individual positions stand?

Don't mean to leave you danglin', but I thought you did a fine job. Thanks Moderator.

I would love to see Irving and Miller flying around their LB positions. I also would love to see the rookies playing outfield with Dawkins barking in their ears. We won't be winning the SB this year. Let's get the youngin's out there to see what they can do. We have a few solid team leaders with Dawk and Champ on the Defense, and just maybe, Tebow on the offense. We may lose alot, but I'm excited to see what we have. We lost much of our exciting young players over the last two years. I think this year we have much of that back.

Tned
08-01-2011, 02:39 PM
think you meant two Rookies that they will be second year players

They are second year players this year, which is what I meant. Anything constructive to add to the thread?

TXBRONC
08-01-2011, 02:42 PM
I think you're break down is good, and that unfortunately there are still far more questions than answers which isn't good.

Tned
08-01-2011, 02:55 PM
I think you're break down is good, and that unfortunately there are still far more questions than answers which isn't good.

Kind of ironic, but the more I'm looking/thinking about the front seven, I think that could wind up being a strength.

I have always thought M. Thomas had more to offer than he's been showing, based on how he's been used -- or not used. He could actually provide a perpetrator role from the DT spot, and Vickerson while not a world beater, has shown an ability to pressure the QB.

I think in terms of getting to the QB, this year's DT's have the best chance in years, because teams are going to have to put blockers on Miller and Doom. So, that leaves us with the question of whether they can stop the run. If I was to bet, I think that between Thomas, Vickerson, McBean, Harvey and whoever else they wind up picking up, the DT rotation will be just fine with the scheme that Fox and company puts in place.

However, what I'm real excited about is the outside. Doom and DJ on one side, Miller and Ayers on the other. I think the outside backers and ends could wreak havoc on the QB and on outside runs.

TXBRONC
08-01-2011, 03:01 PM
Kind of ironic, but the more I'm looking/thinking about the front seven, I think that could wind up being a strength.

I have always thought M. Thomas had more to offer than he's been showing, based on how he's been used -- or not used. He could actually provide a perpetrator role from the DT spot, and Vickerson while not a world beater, has shown an ability to pressure the QB.

I think in terms of getting to the QB, this year's DT's have the best chance in years, because teams are going to have to put blockers on Miller and Doom. So, that leaves us with the question of whether they can stop the run. If I was to bet, I think that between Thomas, Vickerson, McBean, Harvey and whoever else they wind up picking up, the DT rotation will be just fine with the scheme that Fox and company puts in place.

However, what I'm real excited about is the outside. Doom and DJ on one side, Miller and Ayers on the other. I think the outside backers and ends could wreak havoc on the QB and on outside runs.

I agree our edge rushers could end up being a lot of fun to watch. If our defensive tackles can just stop run we will be ok.

BORDERLINE
08-01-2011, 03:10 PM
we still suck. 4-12 team with DT being a need and we pick up none. QB circus , lloyd is the only bright spot on offense. A lot of rookies on defense could take time to gel.

So as of right now i see us right where we ended last year

G_Money
08-01-2011, 03:11 PM
For me it's coaching vs. talent.

Our OL was coached by a tight-end coach whose inadequate, minor-college blocking schemes and bad instruction might have made all the OL look inept. Are they actually inept, or just poorly used?

Magazu is a FAR better OL coach - can he coach these guys up to their potential, or over it as a unit?

Same with the defense - can we coach those guys in the middle up to being adequate or do we require studs to make it work?

*shrugs* I know how I feel about the different groups in isolation, not counting coaching or scheme.

I need to see scheme and usage to know how I feel about the team, most of which I won't see until the regular season.

Which makes preseason worry-free for me, I guess. :D

~G

Bosco
08-01-2011, 03:11 PM
QB - Lots of potential. Quinn is reportedly looking really good in camp. He's got alot of talent that he could put together. Tebow is going to succeed or die trying and Orton is above average. At this point, I'm more worried about the team handicapping the quarterbacks than I am about the quarterbacks handicapping the team.

RB - Again, lots of potential. Moreno has loads of talent and started to show it last year when he finally got healthy. McGahee and White are great complimentary backs.

FB - Unimportant and won't see the field much in this offense. Larsen and the newbies can battle it out for the lone spot.

WR - Very strong, especially when Thomas comes back. We have everything you could want in (two) deep threats, a very good intermediate target and a slot receiver that is above average.

TE - Average. Quinn is a very good blocker, almost as good as Graham was and now with Daniel out of the way he'll be forced to sink or swim as a short range receiving target. Thomas and Green give us some talent to use in what will be a predominantly two tight end offense.

OL - Assuming Walton and Beadles continue their improvement and Franklin grows into a solid RT, we're good to go here. You know Clady and Kuper are rocks.


DE - Hard not to be optimistic. Doom isn't your ideal every down RDE, but he's a very good pass rusher and we have some talent to rotate in on running downs. Ayers is a prototypical LDE in this 4-3 and will continue to be a very solid anchor in the run defense and now we'll have removed him from his biggest weakness, dropping into coverage.

DT - Absolute ******* joke. Barring an absolute miracle, if something isn't done to remedy this issue we'll be getting gashed up the middle all year.

LB's - Love our OLB's, lukewarm on MLB. Mays was looking like a very good hammer in the 3-4 defense, but he couldn't cut it in a 4-3 because he couldn't cover. Irving has the potential to be solid, but I'd expect an upgrade in a couple years.

CB - We're pretty good. Champ is Champ. Goodman is a very good #2 corner when healthy. Hopefully Cox is found innocent and can contribute. Vaughn and Thompson are solid nickel and dime options.

S - We're stacked with talent. Now we just need them to put it together on the field.

ST - Very good. Prater is a helluva kicker and Colquitt is looking like a very solid punter. Decker, Thomas, Cox, Royal and Vaughn all have shown flashes as return men.

Tned
08-01-2011, 03:25 PM
QB - Lots of potential. Quinn is reportedly looking really good in camp. He's got alot of talent that he could put together. Tebow is going to succeed or die trying and Orton is above average. At this point, I'm more worried about the team handicapping the quarterbacks than I am about the quarterbacks handicapping the team.

RB - Again, lots of potential. Moreno has loads of talent and started to show it last year when he finally got healthy. McGahee and White are great complimentary backs.

FB - Unimportant and won't see the field much in this offense. Larsen and the newbies can battle it out for the lone spot.

WR - Very strong, especially when Thomas comes back. We have everything you could want in (two) deep threats, a very good intermediate target and a slot receiver that is above average.

TE - Average. Quinn is a very good blocker, almost as good as Graham was and now with Daniel out of the way he'll be forced to sink or swim as a short range receiving target. Thomas and Green give us some talent to use in what will be a predominantly two tight end offense.

OL - Assuming Walton and Beadles continue their improvement and Franklin grows into a solid RT, we're good to go here. You know Clady and Kuper are rocks.


DE - Hard not to be optimistic. Doom isn't your ideal every down RDE, but he's a very good pass rusher and we have some talent to rotate in on running downs. Ayers is a prototypical LDE in this 4-3 and will continue to be a very solid anchor in the run defense and now we'll have removed him from his biggest weakness, dropping into coverage.

DT - Absolute ******* joke. Barring an absolute miracle, if something isn't done to remedy this issue we'll be getting gashed up the middle all year.

LB's - Love our OLB's, lukewarm on MLB. Mays was looking like a very good hammer in the 3-4 defense, but he couldn't cut it in a 4-3 because he couldn't cover. Irving has the potential to be solid, but I'd expect an upgrade in a couple years.

CB - We're pretty good. Champ is Champ. Goodman is a very good #2 corner when healthy. Hopefully Cox is found innocent and can contribute. Vaughn and Thompson are solid nickel and dime options.

S - We're stacked with talent. Now we just need them to put it together on the field.

ST - Very good. Prater is a helluva kicker and Colquitt is looking like a very solid punter. Decker, Thomas, Cox, Royal and Vaughn all have shown flashes as return men.

Nice run down. I agree with much of it. One note on the TE's, based on the speculation I'm reading, it's very possible Quinn doesn't even make the team or if he does, he will have a hard time being the TE1 or TE2.

On the running backs, I'm excited about a slimmer and motivated White, and McGahee is what he is. I only have cautious optimism for Moreno, because other than in a few games here or there, he hasn't shown much in his first two years. The reports I'm hearing so far from camp aren't sounding great for Moreno.

Canmore
08-01-2011, 03:27 PM
I agree our edge rushers could end up being a lot of fun to watch. If our defensive tackles can just stop run we will be ok.

Unfortunately, that appears to be a mighty big if. ;)

Tned
08-28-2011, 01:23 AM
Kind of ironic, but the more I'm looking/thinking about the front seven, I think that could wind up being a strength.

I have always thought M. Thomas had more to offer than he's been showing, based on how he's been used -- or not used. He could actually provide a perpetrator role from the DT spot, and Vickerson while not a world beater, has shown an ability to pressure the QB.

I think in terms of getting to the QB, this year's DT's have the best chance in years, because teams are going to have to put blockers on Miller and Doom. So, that leaves us with the question of whether they can stop the run. If I was to bet, I think that between Thomas, Vickerson, McBean, Harvey and whoever else they wind up picking up, the DT rotation will be just fine with the scheme that Fox and company puts in place.

However, what I'm real excited about is the outside. Doom and DJ on one side, Miller and Ayers on the other. I think the outside backers and ends could wreak havoc on the QB and on outside runs.

I know it's only preseason, but weeks two and three are confirming my belief that the front seven could be the real strength of this team.

Canmore
08-28-2011, 02:20 AM
I know it's only preseason, but weeks two and three are confirming my belief that the front seven could be the real strength of this team.

We certainly can dial up pressure. I see sacks, hurries and turnovers if we can get teams in obvious passing situations. Dumervil looks like he never missed a down and Von Miller looks like he was literaly shot out of a cannon. We need to see this kind of production in the regular season, but man, I'm excited.

Agent of Orange
08-28-2011, 02:29 AM
I know it's only preseason, but weeks two and three are confirming my belief that the front seven could be the real strength of this team.

I'm excited about the defense now. I'm excited to see what someone like Allen can do with weapons like Doom, Miller, and Champ.

Tned
08-28-2011, 02:49 AM
We certainly can dial up pressure. I see sacks, hurries and turnovers if we can get teams in obvious passing situations. Dumervil looks like he never missed a down and Von Miller looks like he was literaly shot out of a cannon. We need to see this kind of production in the regular season, but man, I'm excited.

Obviously, the real test will come in the regular season, and with good running teams. Opening day should be interesting, and the first real test, as McFadden tore us up last year, running for almost 300 yards in the two games, and averaging 10+ YPC in the 59-14 beatdown, and 6 YPC in the second game.

This defense clearly can put pressure on the QB, but we still don't know how it will hold up to a good running game.

Canmore
08-28-2011, 02:54 AM
Obviously, the real test will come in the regular season, and with good running teams. Opening day should be interesting, and the first real test, as McFadden tore us up last year, running for almost 300 yards in the two games, and averaging 10+ YPC in the 59-14 beatdown, and 6 YPC in the second game.

This defense clearly can put pressure on the QB, but we still don't know how it will hold up to a good running game.

We must stop the run or at least slow it down so that we can dial up pressure. I am still worried about our interior defese, but we did hold a bad Seattle team in check, only 58 yards rushing at 3.1 yards a carry. Oakland will be the first real test and I'm sure McFadden is still licking his lips.

Tned
08-28-2011, 03:06 AM
We must stop the run or at least slow it down so that we can dial up pressure. I am still worried about our interior defese, but we did hold a bad Seattle team in check, only 58 yards rushing at 3.1 yards a carry. Oakland will be the first real test and I'm sure McFadden is still licking his lips.

FWIW, Washington and Forsett of Seattle had MUCH more success against the vikings last week than they had against the Broncos today. Still, I think we agree, Oakland is going to be the first real test of whether or not this team can stop the run.

If the middle of the front seven can hold up, there's quite a bit on this defense to feel positive about.

BroncoStud
08-28-2011, 03:11 AM
WTF, you guys are leaving me hanging here. No thoughts? No comments on where you think the individual positions stand?

DT and Safety are my major positions of concern, LBer to an extent. I think we are at minimum OK at DE, good against the passs and probably not as good against the run.

WR, Lloyd is a star, Royal is servicable but I wish he would just accept the role as the #3, of which he would be an absolute matchup nightmare. Decker needs to step up into the #2.

TE, I agree, was a weakness but it appears to be at minimum STABLE. Our beloved rookie was impressive tonight, he has upside but is clearly somewhat raw.

Offensive line should be average AT WORST. Franklin is an unknown.

QB, we know we are at least AVERAGE at QB. Orton doesn't suck, he isn't great, but he doesn't suck. We know from last season that Tebow won't fall apart if he is forced into action, he was servicable even as a rookie.

RB is STABLE. Moreno might just excel in this offense being used in screens and swing, he really catched the ball welll. I will be surprised if McGahee is much of a factor, Ball is OK, there is some depth, more than last year.

CB is a question mark for me as well, we have Champ, but Cox obviously brings issues and beyond that there just isn't much there.

Perfectly happy with the Kickers and Punter, with Prater kicking off we shouldn't deal with many returns.

All in all I think we are much deeper than last season, which is probably the first step in rebuilding. I would say that DT and S are the 2 positions which scare me the most, followed by Lber.

Canmore
08-28-2011, 03:16 AM
FWIW, Washington and Forsett of Seattle had MUCH more success against the vikings last week than they had against the Broncos today. Still, I think we agree, Oakland is going to be the first real test of whether or not this team can stop the run.


I'm Excited about the defense. I honestly can't remember the last time I said that, When did Al Wilson retire? After the 2006 season. I know we are facing bad teams but these guys get paid too.



If the middle of the front seven can hold up, there's quite a bit on this defense to feel positive about.

Yes, if the middle of the defense holds up we will be ok. Big if. Still, there is something to be excited about that is Broncos related. Not to long ago we didn't even know if there would be football.

Lancane
08-28-2011, 04:08 AM
Obviously, the real test will come in the regular season, and with good running teams. Opening day should be interesting, and the first real test, as McFadden tore us up last year, running for almost 300 yards in the two games, and averaging 10+ YPC in the 59-14 beatdown, and 6 YPC in the second game.

This defense clearly can put pressure on the QB, but we still don't know how it will hold up to a good running game.

I think they'll do alright, but I don't see us completely stopping the run, remember Fox's defenses have usually been 'Bend Don't Break', I think we can all admit that we've seen a lot more positive gang tackling from the defense, they seem to while not be dominant at each position, to be on the same page at least, which is a huge difference from the defenses we've had that seemed to not even be able to tackle anybody.

Because Fox's defenses have tended to be much better in the pass game, Oakland should be one dimensional Tned, it's not like they have a great quarterback, they're not even average - that should favor us defensively, it's their defense against our offense I am more concerned about, Oakland at times last year seemed to flourish defensively.

Canmore
08-28-2011, 04:18 AM
I think they'll do alright, but I don't see us completely stopping the run, remember Fox's defenses have usually been 'Bend Don't Break', I think we can all admit that we've seen a lot more positive gang tackling from the defense, they seem to while not be dominant at each position, to be on the same page at least, which is a huge difference from the defenses we've had that seemed to not even be able to tackle anybody.

If we can just slow the run down. Neither do I see us shutting down McFadden and Bush completely. If we can do that we can play to our strength, pass defense.


Because Fox's defenses have tended to be much better in the pass game, Oakland should be one dimensional Tned, it's not like they have a great quarterback, they're not even average - that should favor us defensively, it's their defense against our offense I am more concerned about, Oakland at times last year seemed to flourish defensively

If we make oakland one demensional it certainly should help but our interior run defense must play average.

Our defense against there offense will be our first real test. Can we run the football effectively? I think we will be able to pass the ball if our line gives Kyle some time, big if. Big test, Oakland ran the table on the AFC West last season.

pnbronco
08-28-2011, 04:29 AM
WTF, you guys are leaving me hanging here. No thoughts? No comments on where you think the individual positions stand?

Yes I am..........................:D

I will say that Goodman was really hurt most of last year. Champ said that the lock out gave Goody the time he needed to heal and I think he has looked really close to where he was his first year out here. I saw him stopped several plays tonight for what could of been big yardage. Champ and Goody seem to feed really well off each other and I hope they can both stay healthy.

Canmore
08-28-2011, 04:53 AM
Yes I am..........................:D

I will say that Goodman was really hurt most of last year. Champ said that the lock out gave Goody the time he needed to heal and I think he has looked really close to where he was his first year out here. I saw him stopped several plays tonight for what could of been big yardage. Champ and Goody seem to feed really well off each other and I hope they can both stay healthy.

I think Andre Goodman is underrated. He plays opposite Champ. Not a great position to be put in and I think his coverage skills are above average. I don't view him as a liability in the run game but he is no "Champ" at tackling. His health is the big question mark. He needs to be on the field and not in the training room.