Broncos moves

[Superchop 7]

Are you warm and fuzzy heading into the season? Does this offseason rank as the best ever?

[chazoe60]

no................

[spikerman]

The way this season is going so far this may be the shortest thread ever.

[Buff]

Apparently a defensive line is not necessary to compete in the NFL. Who knew?

[chazoe60]

Apparently a defensive line is not necessary to compete in the NFL. Who knew?

but not having one and going with Kyle Orton helps you compete for Andrew Luck.

[dogfish]

we're running this offseason like a boss!

[Lancane]

Am I the only one who thinks that the front office was somehow moved to a short yellow bus somewhere far away?

:lol:

[Dzone]

The worst off season ever was Mcdaniels first year. What an idiot.

[Lancane]

The worst off season ever was Mcdaniels first year. What an idiot.

The minute he tried to trade a Pro-Bowl quarterback for scrubs was the my end line with McDumbass! And it only got worse...what's sad in my opinion is that the current regime should understand and know this and are being cautious (Doing absolutely nothing) while at the same time keeping some of the ill-liked players (Horton) to name one instead of trying to stamp their own mark on this franchise!

[broncofaninfla]

It's way too early to pass judgement on this offseason. Until an hr ago teams couldn't even set up visits with players, now they can. Expect things to pick up for Denver and all over the league.

[Lancane]

It's way too early to pass judgement on this offseason. Until an hr ago teams couldn't even set up visits with players, now they can. Expect things to pick up for Denver and all over the league.

What? You mean the rest of the league has been idle? Wow, their idle sure seems busy as hell IMHO, especially compared to what we have...or should I say haven't done.

[dogfish]

relax, fellas. . . at least we still have the highest-paid long snapper in the game. . .


:welcome:

[chazoe60]

relax, fellas. . . at least we still have the highest-paid long snapper in the game. . .


:welcome:

I ****ing love me some mother ****ing Lonnie shit dick Paxton.

[Lancane]

relax, fellas. . . at least we still have the highest-paid long snapper in the game. . .


:welcome:

Smartass! :tsk:

[Dzone]

Colquit should be hella busy this fall

[G_Money]

relax, fellas. . . at least we still have the highest-paid long snapper in the game. . .


:welcome:

Hey, no sweat on the DT thing, man, we've got this planned. There are a half-dozen kickoff return possibilites on this roster. When Eddie Royal gets tired of running out of the end-zone at full-speed for the 7th time in a game, we can spell him quite easily.

No biggie, man: luck = preparation + opportunity.

We're gonna opportune the shit out of this special teams situation. :salute:

~G

[Northman]

The way this season is going so far this may be the shortest thread ever.

Now that right thar was pretty damn funny. :lol:

[Lancane]

Hey, no sweat on the DT thing, man, we've got this planned. There are a half-dozen kickoff return possibilites on this roster. When Eddie Royal gets tired of running out of the end-zone at full-speed for the 7th time in a game, we can spell him quite easily.

No biggie, man: luck = preparation + opportunity.

We're gonna opportune the shit out of this special teams situation. :salute:

~G

You're too F'n cheery about all this G! :lol:

Glad we have us Lonnie Paxton and a bunch of scrubs for Special Teams since they'll likely be the most complacent unit we put on the field this season.

[dogfish]

come on, guys. . . we might have signed willis mcgahee!

[BigDaddyBronco]

Hey, no sweat on the DT thing, man, we've got this planned. There are a half-dozen kickoff return possibilites on this roster. When Eddie Royal gets tired of running out of the end-zone at full-speed for the 7th time in a game, we can spell him quite easily.

No biggie, man: luck = preparation + opportunity.

We're gonna opportune the shit out of this special teams situation. :salute:

~G
I still think we are running a 2-4-5 or a 2-5-4. We don't need any DT's as we only need a DE rotation. It will hit the NFL by storm!!!!

[MileHighCrew]

Mebane resigned with Seattle, so one more DT gone

[chazoe60]

come on, guys. . . we might have signed willis mcgahee!

:elefant::elefant::elefant::elefant::eek::coffee: :shocked::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee: :confused::coffee::coffee:



















































and
:coffee:

[Lancane]

I still think we are running a 2-4-5 or a 2-5-4. We don't need any DT's as we only need a DE rotation. It will hit the NFL by storm!!!!

Yeah as the only defense to give up 500 yards per game all season long. We'll become the 'Orange Crushed' defense. :shocked:

:lol:

[Lancane]

Mebane resigned with Seattle, so one more DT gone

Defensive Tackles...Defensive Tackles? We don't need no stinking Defensive Tackles... We've got Horton, the heir apparent to Brian Griese!

:lol:

[dogfish]

i just hope smiley's around to say "and the peasants rejoice!" when we sign derek landri and marcus thomas. . . .


:heh:

[MileHighCrew]

Defensive Tackles...Defensive Tackles? We don't need no stinking Defensive Tackles... We've got Horton, the heir apparent to Brian Griese!

:lol:

don't pick on Brian

[NightTerror218]

Buckhalter, Coats, McLaughlin released

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Buckhalter-and-Coats-Released-McLaughlin-Waived/78c9a933-2536-4603-8c23-818267f942a8

[BigDaddyBronco]

Yeah as the only defense to give up 500 yards per game all season long. We'll become the 'Orange Crushed' defense. :shocked:

:lol:
Right now we have a 2-3-4.

[G_Money]

I dub us the Orange Squash. Too sweet.

I think it's great that we need about 4 more competent DTs than we currently have. Everyone knows there are more Late Round and UDFA players on NFL teams than rounds 1-3, and there will be castoffs aplenty as we go through the pre-season. That's our real plan: poach all those great players who hit the wire when teams cut to their final rosters. Who need quality when you have quantity?

Not us, that's for damn sure. We'll be rolling in potential 53rd men and practice squad guys.

~G

[G_Money]

i just hope smiley's around to say "and the peasants rejoice!" when we sign derek landri and marcus thomas. . . .


:heh:

I am 92% sure this is our master plan. Landri's "perfect for our system" and Marcus is "a really skilled big man who was under-utilized in previous schemes."

You buy the first beer when that happens, dog. :beer:

~G

[Lancane]

I dub us the Orange Squash. Too sweet.

I think it's great that we need about 4 more competent DTs than we currently have. Everyone knows there are more Late Round and UDFA players on NFL teams than rounds 1-3, and there will be castoffs aplenty as we go through the pre-season. That's our real plan: poach all those great players who hit the wire when teams cut to their final rosters. Who need quality when you have quantity?

Not us, that's for damn sure. We'll be rolling in potential 53rd men and practice squad guys.

~G

:eek:





:whoo:

[Mike]

Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I have been pissed since we didn't hire a real GM, but really since it was apparent that they were passing on Dareus for Von Miller. Not that I don't like Miller, but it showed that rebuilding the DLine wasn't the priority and that the long range planning wasn't going to be like the Packers, Steelers, etc.

We'll see how it turns out, but I expected this.

[Dzone]

If this season goes down the toilet, then EFX should get booed as loud as Orton is booed. This FO is trying to run an NFL team on a budget.

[G_Money]

I was stunned that we took Miller over Dareus, knowing that Elvis, the dude we're paying 13% of the payroll to, is slotted to be our pass rusher. I REALLY like Miller, but it wasn't the need I was looking to fill. But I figured we'd address it later. There were still decent options.

And then we skipped it. So I thought the second we were open for business we'd clear the books and sign some DTs. Not so much.

They'd better figure something out. 16 more games of the worst run-stopping defense known to man will not make me a happy camper.

~G

[BigDaddyBronco]

If this season goes down the toilet, then EFX should get booed as loud as Orton is booed. This FO is trying to run an NFL team on a budget.

Well there is a salary cap with a floor as well.

[G_Money]

Stink was saying on the fan that the Broncos are cash-strapped and that's why they're not doing anything.

For some reason D-Mac and Al didn't seem to know what that meant. Yes, everyone works under the same salary cap, but extending players and pro-rating up-front cash bonuses is how you maneuver. With us being up against the cap right now...if we're short on cash then we can't afford to pay that up-front cash and maneuver around cap constraints.

That's...not a good thing.

~G

[Slick]

i went to the beach today.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Moves?

Let's see, we've:

-Failed to trade our overpaid, piece of shit, loser QB which is somewhat blocking our ability to sign FAs with his big contract negotiated with the last regime while directly impacting the development of a guy we spent a 1st round pick on who has more heart and leadership in his pinky finger than our current "starter" has in his whole out of shape body

-Missed out on the two top DT free agents (Mebane, Cofield) even though that is our biggest need and won't be competitive for anyone above a 3rd tier player (spoken fringe starter/backup)

-Reported to have signed a FA RB that might actually help bolster our running game only to find out it was complete bullshit and he's going to test the market

So to answer the question, our moves have been FANTASTIC! What's not to like? :beer:

[MOtorboat]

i went to the beach today.

I had pizza for dinner.

[Az Snake]

i went to the beach today.


I had pizza for dinner.

I backed into a cactus while mowing my yard today.


.

[Traveler]

I was hoping for a Mebane, Branch combo here in Denver. Right combo, wrong team.

[Lancane]

Did they make any moves? And pocket-pool doesn't count but it's obvious that's what the F'n F.O. is doing...nothing but playing with themselves!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Did they make any moves? And pocket-pool doesn't count but it's obvious that's what the F'n F.O. is doing...nothing but playing with themselves!

Yep, they made a bowel movement in their trousers in front of the whole league.

[Dzone]

Roger Goddells hair caught on fire today and James Harrison wouldnt even take a leak on him to put it out

[Juriga72]

I am getting dizzy thinking about who signed where... ALL I know is..

"Its NOT Denver, and they aren't good"...

[Lonestar]

What a bunch of losers. Jesus Christo.

[claymore]

Im glad we arent reaching, or overpaying anyone. Weve been down that road before.
We will be a better team than we were last year.

[chazoe60]

I hate being the negative guy because other than the Orton situation I'm usually a very positive dude. I'm the guy who get ridiculed at work because every year I say the Broncos are going to win at least 10 games.

But now I read that we tried to get Haynesworth but the Pats beat us to it. I read that Mebane signed a 5 year 25 million dollar contract, and if those numbers are right then it looks like we're not really trying at all. And I didn't want Haynesworth but at least it would have looked like we were trying to do something about the DL.

These things combined with the Orton debacle make me think that the FO is either terribly inept, not even trying in hopes to get "Luck"y, or just has blinders on and thinks we're better than we are.

I thought I'd be much happier that football was starting up, but I feel depressed about it.

[Lancane]

Sadly, I have to admit that I myself am at this point thoroughly and utterly disgusted with the Broncos’ brass. And it stems from so much more then just Free Agency and the lack of anything resembling a ‘so-called’ plan which they supposedly had in place for sometime now. No, I’m disgusted because the front office seems to not understand the simple fact that football is about X’s and O’s, and what you need in order to feel a competent, competitive team.

They have what is essentially a top draft only to blow their load in some orgasmic euphoria leaving them as limp as a dead fish come the other phases of the off-season? What in the hell! - I don’t mean to sound doom and gloom, but they haven’t cut half of those they should have nor done close to what they needed to. Where is the ‘light at the end of the tunnel’ game plan we as fans have been hearing of?

I don’t care that Orton messed up his own trade, that should have been a warning sign right there. They need to cut his ass from the team, it’s already causing a media frenzy, not to mention causing issues internally in the locker-room and could do worse damage as time goes on. And what about our top area of concern - defense? I was pretty stoked about the Von Miller pick, even though I felt we should have taken Marcell Dareus…but now I feel that the brass’s search for the next Julius Peppers may hamper us far worse then they have yet realized - indeed the more I think about it the less sense taking Miller makes, when you look at that we have Williams a first round pick at linebacker, Dumervil who plays like a top fifteen pick at linebacker and defensive end and Ayers another first round pick converting back to his rightful position at defensive end in the forty-three…not to mention that now the team is overstocked on linebackers: Miller, Williams, Douglas, Haggan who will play at both linebacker and defensive end positions, Irving, Kelley, Domino, Jones, then there is Mayo, Mays and Mohammed, and lastly Robinson.

We have five defensive ends, six with trading Gaffney not including the fact that Haggan will spend some time at the position…so, Dumervil, Ayers, Veikune, Hunter, Beal, the new guy from Washington, Jarmon and Haggan. Now anyone care to count the defensive tackles under contract with Denver? That would be Louis Leonard, Kevin Vickerson and the two undrafted rookie free-agents, Ronnell Brown from James Madison and Colby Whitlock from Texas Tech? Feel the doom and gloom yet? Especially now that we hear that Mebane re-signed with Seattle and they signed Branch as well, and we’re hearing that most of the top-tier free agent tackles are out of the equation…by the time our front office decides to get something done will be lucky to not be scraping the barrel of third-tier defensive tackles.

It's not just depressing it's maddening as well, we're looking like a third rate football organization, even Seattle looks to be better ran then us right now!

[chazoe60]

And where do we stand with Marcus Thomas? Can we at least resign him?

[Lonestar]

And where do we stand with Marcus Thomas? Can we at least resign him?

Why would he want to sign with a loser fan base. Just hoping none of the prospects are reading the negativity on all the forums.

[Ravage!!!]

Im glad we arent reaching, or overpaying anyone. Weve been down that road before.
We will be a better team than we were last year.

I'm with you on this one, Clay. Rarely do we see big name FAs make a damn bit of difference to their new team. A DT isn't going to make us from a needing team to a contending team. So many expected us to go out and sign 1 or 2 of the top DTs? We'll get the next tier and be fine. Over-spending for top FAs has very rarely helped anyone. Why would we want to go down that path, again?

[atwater27]

Sadly, I have to admit that I myself am at this point thoroughly and utterly disgusted with the Broncos’ brass. And it stems from so much more then just Free Agency and the lack of anything resembling a ‘so-called’ plan which they supposedly had in place for sometime now. No, I’m disgusted because the front office seems to not understand the simple fact that football is about X’s and O’s, and what you need in order to feel a competent, competitive team.

They have what is essentially a top draft only to blow their load in some orgasmic euphoria leaving them as limp as a dead fish come the other phases of the off-season? What in the hell! - I don’t mean to sound doom and gloom, but they haven’t cut half of those they should have nor done close to what they needed to. Where is the ‘light at the end of the tunnel’ game plan we as fans have been hearing of?

I don’t care that Orton messed up his own trade, that should have been a warning sign right there. They need to cut his ass from the team, it’s already causing a media frenzy, not to mention causing issues internally in the locker-room and could do worse damage as time goes on. And what about our top area of concern - defense? I was pretty stoked about the Von Miller pick, even though I felt we should have taken Marcell Dareus…but now I feel that the brass’s search for the next Julius Peppers may hamper us far worse then they have yet realized - indeed the more I think about it the less sense taking Miller makes, when you look at that we have Williams a first round pick at linebacker, Dumervil who plays like a top fifteen pick at linebacker and defensive end and Ayers another first round pick converting back to his rightful position at defensive end in the forty-three…not to mention that now the team is overstocked on linebackers: Miller, Williams, Douglas, Haggan who will play at both linebacker and defensive end positions, Irving, Kelley, Domino, Jones, then there is Mayo, Mays and Mohammed, and lastly Robinson.

We have five defensive ends, six with trading Gaffney not including the fact that Haggan will spend some time at the position…so, Dumervil, Ayers, Veikune, Hunter, Beal, the new guy from Washington, Jarmon and Haggan. Now anyone care to count the defensive tackles under contract with Denver? That would be Louis Leonard, Kevin Vickerson and the two undrafted rookie free-agents, Ronnell Brown from James Madison and Colby Whitlock from Texas Tech? Feel the doom and gloom yet? Especially now that we hear that Mebane re-signed with Seattle and they signed Branch as well, and we’re hearing that most of the top-tier free agent tackles are out of the equation…by the time our front office decides to get something done will be lucky to not be scraping the barrel of third-tier defensive tackles.

It's not just depressing it's maddening as well, we're looking like a third rate football organization, even Seattle looks to be better ran then us right now!

Don't worry! We are already coaching for Andrew Luck!

[Northman]

Im not really worried about signing free agents or at least big name ones. I like the McGahee pickup but outside of that im not too worried. Fox has to REALLY rebuild what McDaniels utterly destroyed and its a TRUE rebuild this time around. But, i do want to get rid of some of the baggage that we have (IE Orton) and move on from the McDouche regime for good.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

we have Williams a first round pick at linebacker, Dumervil who plays like a top fifteen pick at linebacker and defensive end and Ayers another first round pick converting back to his rightful position at defensive end in the forty-three…not to mention that now the team is overstocked on linebackers: Miller, Williams, Douglas, Haggan who will play at both linebacker and defensive end positions, Irving, Kelley, Domino, Jones, then there is Mayo, Mays and Mohammed, and lastly Robinson.



We also have Wesley Woodyard at LB. He's a RFA with a second round tender attached to him. He's not going anywhere.

[BroncoJoe]

Love the front office bashing. Exactly which free agent did everyone (not affiliated with professional football) want?

[Lancane]

Why would he want to sign with a loser

And while we should be disturbed by that, you may have the right of it Lonestar. We have neglected the interior of the defensive line to which it's become without a better term - pathetic.

We tried to trade for Haynesworth (According to some sources) but how in the hell Denver figured they could afford him and then not look at Mebane or Branch and not offer better money then Seattle confounds me. Thomas will be looking for some sort of payday, not saying Mebane-like money and that may be more then Denver is willing to spend...not to mention that as you said, where is the bright shiny outlook of signing with a team that's neglected the defensive line to the point where it is at?

[atwater27]

I am thinking maybe we are trying to bring some guys in..... And they are like.... Denver? Naaaaaaah. Thing is.... If N.E. could get Haynesworth for a 5th, why couldn't we have offered a 4th? That wouldn't have been overpaying. And I am sure Haynesworth would have been motivated to do good with the team that fired his nemesis in Washington.

[chazoe60]

Rav and North, I understand what you're saying about big name FAs but I would like to see us do something. We can't go into the season with the DTs we have. How many years are we going to keep neglecting our soft defensive middle? And the prospect of keeping Orton means we'll be drafting a QB in the first round next year so we won't address it then either.

[atwater27]

Love the front office bashing. Exactly which free agent did everyone (not affiliated with professional football) want?

Joe. You know what we all want. A freaking defensive tackle. Mebane.... Cofield.... hell even Haynesworth got had for a 5th rounder.

[Tned]

And where do we stand with Marcus Thomas? Can we at least resign him?

He's been begging (via Twitter) for the Broncos to resign him. Apparently, the Broncos don't want him back.

[chazoe60]

He's been begging (via Twitter) for the Broncos to resign him. Apparently, the Broncos don't want him back.

That's depressing

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I'm with you on this one, Clay. Rarely do we see big name FAs make a damn bit of difference to their new team. A DT isn't going to make us from a needing team to a contending team. So many expected us to go out and sign 1 or 2 of the top DTs? We'll get the next tier and be fine. Over-spending for top FAs has very rarely helped anyone. Why would we want to go down that path, again?

It's not just about "big names" it's about positions of need. We have ZERO real DTs on the roster right now. Our only potential starting (barely) DT Kevin Vickerson is 6'6" and 285lbs - the size of a LDE in the 4-3. Jarmon our other "projected" DT is 6'3" 286lbs. Our top "target" as of now? Derek Landri 6'4" 290 lbs. Our DEs are 5'11", 260 and 6'3", 275 respectively.

That adds up to other teams never having to pass. We'll get blown off the ball so much that other teams will average over 5 ypc. I've never in my history as a Broncos fan seen an interior defensive line this poor or untalented. We don't have a single defensive lineman bigger than any (including backups) of our offensive linemen and our O-line is a little on the small side compared with a lot of teams (we've bulked up some with Franklin of late).

It's one thing to overspend, it's another not to address a lack of talent at a position at all and just try to scheme it away. Right now, we don't even have the personnel to run a proper 4-3 defense. I don't think we can get worse than last year (unless Orton starts the whole year) but we haven't really made steps to get any better and it all points to being cheapskates. $25 million isn't a lot to pay a top, young, healthy DT in his prime to anchor your defense for the next 5 years.

Right now, we're playing it cheap (safe) and hoping a diamond steps up from the 3rd or 4th tier to win the job inside. It's pretty obvious that is the plan.

[Lancane]

Im not really worried about signing free agents or at least big name ones. I like the McGahee pickup but outside of that im not too worried. Fox has to REALLY rebuild what McDaniels utterly destroyed and its a TRUE rebuild this time around. But, i do want to get rid of some of the baggage that we have (IE Orton) and move on from the McDouche regime for good.

I understand your point North, just as Rav has continually articulated his points on the contributions of top-tier free agents. But we haven't signed McGahee...yet, we haven't re-signed Thomas. HP had a point regarding Wesley Woodyard, that he is a RFA, and so I guess we have another defensive tackle in McBean who is likewise a RFA right now. I'm admittedly more pissed about keeping Orton or not simply cutting him at this point, like you compared to what the front office hasn't done. But with what we were willing to pay Haynesworth should we have traded for him, then we should have been able to get one of the better veteran defensive tackles available to help bolster the rebuilding process. Mebane's contracts wasn't ridiculous in regards to the financial terms. But after what the slight of which the fans have felt, doing nothing is pretty much continuing that insult, if you get my meaning.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

He's been begging (via Twitter) for the Broncos to resign him. Apparently, the Broncos don't want him back.

That's just sad. He'd instantly be the best one we have (not saying much) and would play for peanuts.

[Lancane]

He's been begging (via Twitter) for the Broncos to resign him. Apparently, the Broncos don't want him back.

I thought Klis wrote that Denver's priority was signing some of their own free agents, especially Thomas.

I guess Klis got it wrong....lol.

[BroncoJoe]

Joe. You know what we all want. A freaking defensive tackle. Mebane.... Cofield.... hell even Haynesworth got had for a 5th rounder.

Well, call me crazy but the past few coaches we've had here are clearly offensive minded. Is it personnel or scheme? Frankly, the last thing I want on our line is a Haynesworth (lazy) or a Gilbert Brown (fatass) on the team.

**EDIT**

Remember how the defense looked with a "real" defensive coach in Nolan? That, of course, was before McDaniels reigned him in...

[chazoe60]

I thought Klis wrote that Denver's priority was signing some of their own free agents, especially Thomas.

I guess Klis got it wrong....lol.

Klis, wrong? Never.

[Tned]

That's depressing



RT @MarcusThomas_79: I dont wanna get into to much trouble but yall know wuz up I wanna go ham but I cant. Who ever I sign wit I wont let them down yall goin 2 c

RT @MarcusThomas_79: @wikipediaisfact I want to b a bronco 4eva but everything happens for a reason

RT @MarcusThomas_79: Im not look n 4,money im look n 4 a job

Then, there was a tweet that was before these that is nearly indecipherable, but he seems to be saying that teams play people they pay a lot of money to and the only reason he has been sitting on the Broncos is because they paid others more money and had to play them.

[LordTrychon]

I thought Klis wrote that Denver's priority was signing some of their own free agents, especially Thomas.

I guess Klis got it wrong....lol.

lol... maybe. We'll see what happens. Doesn't seem Thomas is getting lots of attention elsewhere, either. May just drop the price.

As for Mebane... I find it hard to believe that we didn't offer more than Seattle. He was looking for other teams to raise his price so he could stay at home.

[Northman]

I understand your point North, just as Rav has continually articulated his points on the contributions of top-tier free agents. But we haven't signed McGahee...yet, we haven't re-signed Thomas. HP had a point regarding Wesley Woodyard, that he is a RFA, and so I guess we have another defensive tackle in McBean who is likewise a RFA right now. I'm admittedly more pissed about keeping Orton or not simply cutting him at this point, like you compared to what the front office hasn't done. But with what we were willing to pay Haynesworth should we have traded for him, then we should have been able to get one of the better veteran defensive tackles available to help bolster the rebuilding process. Mebane's contracts wasn't ridiculous in regards to the financial terms. But after what the slight of which the fans have felt, doing nothing is pretty much continuing that insult, if you get my meaning.

I understand your concerns and point. But with Haynesworth, i dont want him on this squad anyway. He may "see the light" in NE but i see nothing but failure there for him. He is very lazy and doesnt want to work hard to earn his money. I just cant respect that in any player. I dont know much Mebane so i cant speak on that particular player. But i agree that so far the FO seems to be following suit of the past regime and that is concerning.

[atwater27]

Well, call me crazy but the past few coaches we've had here are clearly offensive minded. Is it personnel or scheme? Frankly, the last thing I want on our line is a Haynesworth (lazy) or a Gilbert Brown (fatass) on the team.

The point is.... Haynesworth (who is only lazy in the 3-4) could just sit there and do nothing at DT and still make more of an impact than anyone on our roster.

[Lancane]

Well, call me crazy but the past few coaches we've had here are clearly offensive minded. Is it personnel or scheme? Frankly, the last thing I want on our line is a Haynesworth (lazy) or a Gilbert Brown (fatass) on the team.

It's been said by several sources that we tried to trade for Haynesworth, but New England was already working on a deal for him. I'm sure if that deal was not in place we would have been sending our sixth round pick and Gaffney to Washington for Haynesworth, instead of dealing Gaffney for Jarmon.

[Northman]

The point is.... Haynesworth (who is only lazy in the 3-4) could just sit there and do nothing at DT and still make more of an impact than anyone on our roster.

The problem is, BB wont tolerate his laziness in practice so him seeing the field in gameday is much like what happened in Wash. Haynes is a cancer and doesnt even contribute enough to warrant his paycheck.

[Lonestar]

Im not really worried about signing free agents or at least big name ones. I like the McGahee pickup but outside of that im not too worried. Fox has to REALLY rebuild what McDaniels utterly destroyed and its a TRUE rebuild this time around. But, i do want to get rid of some of the baggage that we have (IE Orton) and move on from the McDouche regime for good.

Ok let's get this straight Josh did not destroy the defense. The DL has been a loser since the brownco debacle.

He did what all of the fans had wanted for maybe a decade or more switched to a 3-4.
Did nothing there to help other than replace 8 of 11 starters none of which started in the NFL again. In most cases are out of the league.

So let's really place the blame on dEfense where it should be.

Mikey ****** up the defense for a decade before Josh even got Here.

Granted it did not get better but he had little or nothing to do with it's destruction. He did retain Doom which if past practices of mikey held true he would have allowed him to walk. he brought in starters for the Dbacks and sorely needEd leadership. Made valiant attempts to bring in true NT after nolans wonder boi fAiled.

He probably should have brought in an experienced DC after nolan decided he could not take direction from his boss.

But he did not destroy the broken mikeys defense.

[Northman]

Ok let's get this straight Josh did not destroy the defense. The DL has been a loser since the brownco debacle.

He did what all of the fans had wanted for maybe a decade or more switched to a 3-4.
Did nothing there to help other than replace 8 of 11 starters none of which started in the NFL again. In most cases are out of the league.

So let's really place the blame on dEfense where it should be.

Mikey ****** up the defense for a decade before Josh even got Here.

Granted it did not get better but he had little or nothing to do with it's destruction. He did retain Doom which if past practices of mikey held true he would have allowed him to walk. he brought in starters for the Dbacks and sorely needEd leadership. Made valiant attempts to bring in true NT after nolans wonder boi fAiled.

He probably should have brought in an experienced DC after nolan decided he could not take direction from his boss.

But he did not destroy the broken mikeys defense.

Listen dillweed and listen good, when i said he destroyed this franchise i was talking about more than just defense. So spare me your anti-shanahan rants because even under that cat we still performed better than 4-12. Now, go suck on that titty for a bit.

[Tned]

I don't have it in me, all I can see is the same "blah, blah, blah, I hate mikey" crap he spews in EVERY thread.

Can someone correct him on the Nolan incident..

[atwater27]

Ok let's get this straight Josh did not destroy the defense. The DL has been a loser since the brownco debacle. He did worse than destroy the defense. He drafted horribly and only focused on the offense... (which he did horribly also)

He did what all of the fans had wanted for maybe a decade or more switched to a 3-4. wow, alot of good that did us, right JR?
Did nothing there to help other than replace 8 of 11 starters none of which started in the NFL again. In most cases are out of the league. With no discernable difference now.

So let's really place the blame on dEfense where it should be.

Mikey ****** up the defense for a decade before Josh even got Here. And he got fired for it. What more punishment did he deserve?

Granted it did not get better but he had little or nothing to do with it's destruction. He did retain Doom which if past practices of mikey held true he would have allowed him to walk. he brought in starters for the Dbacks and sorely needEd leadership. Made valiant attempts to bring in true NT after nolans wonder boi fAiled.

He probably should have brought in an experienced DC after nolan decided he could not take direction from his boss. No, guy. He should have kept Nolan and left him the **** alone. Then Josh might still be here. But that would be expecting too much from his intellect.

But he did not destroy the broken mikeys defense.

Please.

[spikerman]

Wasn't there an article recently that said Bowlen was impressed with how hard the front office was working during the offseason/lockout? If so, based solely on what we've seen so far, I can't help but ask, "doing what?"

[Lonestar]

As for hanesworth not sure what his salary cap numbers were. If they were not 8-10 mil per year then I would have loved to have that monster on the team. He is a difference maker he just did not want to play for the little general like so many other BIG guys did not.

Can't say that he was treated with any respect last year. And really do not totally blame him for what happened ther

[Lancane]

Ok let's get this straight Josh did not destroy the defense. The DL has been a loser since the brownco debacle.

He did what all of the fans had wanted for maybe a decade or more switched to a 3-4.
Did nothing there to help other than replace 8 of 11 starters none of which started in the NFL again. In most cases are out of the league.

So let's really place the blame on dEfense where it should be.

Mikey ****** up the defense for a decade before Josh even got Here.

Granted it did not get better but he had little or nothing to do with it's destruction. He did retain Doom which if past practices of mikey held true he would have allowed him to walk. he brought in starters for the Dbacks and sorely needEd leadership. Made valiant attempts to bring in true NT after nolans wonder boi fAiled.

He probably should have brought in an experienced DC after nolan decided he could not take direction from his boss.

But he did not destroy the broken mikeys defense.

Actually Lonestar that is completely false, if you look at the numbers the defenses were always better then they appeared during Shanahan's tenure hear in Denver - 96' (7th), 97' (6th), 98' (8th), 99' (11th), 00' (23rd), 01' (21st), 02' (15th), 03' (9th), 04' (9th), 05' (3rd), 06' (8th), 07' (28th) and 08' (30th)...

So during Shanahan's thirteen years in Denver only five of those years did he not have a top ten defense, one of which was 11th overall, so literally four horrid defenses. Notice how the worse two were his last two? He just had a different approach, so some blame could go to him for his lack of long-term ability to add talent, but not the whole mess.

[chazoe60]

Listen dillweed and listen good, when i said he destroyed this franchise i was talking about more than just defense. So spare me your anti-shanahan rants because even under that cat we still performed better than 4-12. Now, go suck on that titty for a bit.

Post of the year.















*not written by chazoe60 anyway. ;)

[atwater27]

As for hanesworth not sure what his salary cap numbers were. If they were not 8-10 mil per year then I would have loved to have that monster on the team. He is a difference maker he just did not want to play for the little general like so many other BIG guys did not.

Can't say that he was treated with any respect last year. And really do not totally blame him for what happened ther

Ohhhh. So it's ok for Haynie to disregard and disobey his boss, but your opinion of how Nolan was fired with good reason for not listening to his boss stands? H Y P O C R I T E

[Northman]

Ohhhh. So it's ok for Haynie to disregard and disobey his boss, but your opinion of how Nolan was fired with good reason for not listening to his boss stands? H Y P O C R I T E


Ooops,. somebody got their mancard pulled. :lol:

[Tned]

Someone remind me, how exactly did it work out when joshy showed Nolan the door and sent him to Miami?

[spikerman]

Someone remind me, how exactly did it work out when joshy showed Nolan the door and sent him to Miami?

Well, the only reason Denver was ranked #32 in defense after McD got rid of Nolan is because there aren't more teams in the league.

[Northman]

Someone remind me, how exactly did it work out when joshy showed Nolan the door and sent him to Miami?

Apparently well for one particular person. He loves those coaches with the Napolean complex.......err....wait....

[Tned]

Well, the only reason Denver was ranked #32 in defense after McD got rid of Nolan is because there aren't more teams in the league.

Good point, I've been wondering how the heck they were only the 32nd worst defense... ;)

[Tned]

Apparently well for one particular person. He loves those coaches with the Napolean complex.......err....wait....

Until Death Do us hate (UDDUH)

[spikerman]

Someone remind me, how exactly did it work out when joshy showed Nolan the door and sent him to Miami?

For some people on the board that period of time is referred to as "the good ol' days." ;)

[Tned]

On Friday night I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out --- ba dup bup...

Anyone else sick and tired of EVERY thread in Broncos Talk becoming a mikey bash fest? It's two coaching regimes ago, time to move on or create a mikey pinata thread for all the mikey bashing needs a person craves.

[spikerman]

On Friday night I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out --- ba dup bup...

Anyone else sick and tired of EVERY thread in Broncos Talk becoming a mikey bash fest? It's two coaching regimes ago, time to move on or create a mikey pinata thread for all the mikey bashing needs a person craves.

I think a thread is a great idea. I wonder if there's room in the Black Hole.

[Ravage!!!]

Ohhhh. So it's ok for Haynie to disregard and disobey his boss, but your opinion of how Nolan was fired with good reason for not listening to his boss stands? H Y P O C R I T E

Haven't we heard time and time and time and time and time and time and time again... how it was good for the Broncos to get rid of Cutler and Marshall because they are "head cases?"

Yet somehow... SOMEHOW... hiring Haynesworth would be GOOD because he's a "difference maker?" :confused:

[Bullgator]

Of all the dumbass things McD ever did, giving KO 9 mil for one year ****** us more than anything... now we cant even get rid of the doosh.

[atwater27]

Of all the dumbass things McD ever did, giving KO 9 mil for one year ****** us more than anything... now we cant even get rid of the doosh.

I don't know... Drafting a Florida Gator running back 3 rounds too soon in the draft might beat that.

[Lonestar]

Listen dillweed and listen good, when i said he destroyed this franchise i was talking about more than just defense. So spare me your anti-shanahan rants because even under that cat we still performed better than 4-12. Now, go suck on that titty for a bit.

yeah yeah the record means he was the worst HC in the history of the game.

We all know that is bovine excrement.. at least if you are not as you say sucking on mikeys teat..

so spare me and everyone else your anti josh rants.

We all knew deep down inside that this franchise has been rotten to almost the core for a long time. but because of those two rings he brought to the city NO ONE wanted to do the right thing and that was fire him as the defacto GM and overseer of the defense.

we all knew that we needed to rebuild years ago not just reload like those in the smack section would tell opposing fans .

" look at our record" would be the replies "we have the best RB core" in the league we run the ZBS and no one can stop it.. mikey is a rb guru can find gems in the late rounds same applied to the OL guys ..


when in fact he was blowing the real foundation picks those on day one (1-3 now day one through early day 3) left and right.

you just do not rebuild a team in two drafts like everyone here seemed to think would happen.

oh he should have only drafted on D because that is what ONLY needed to be fixed..

but the concept of ZBS is fallacy it works between the twenties because most DC know that when the rubber hits the road inside the red zone your not going to score TD's with it.. YOU flat can't consistently move the beef on the DL with the back seven so close to the LOS.

it has been that way since the HOF group of players retired..

did josh make mistakes sure he did but lets not be irrational and blame all of this teams issues on him..

he started the rebuild with solid players and that should prove out over the next few years.

If they do not give me a call then.. till then cut the Josh ruined the franchise BS.. or at least tone it down..

and to those that still think I HATE mikey your so wrong I just did not buy his BS, any more and saw him for what he was a little man with to much power.

Jesus Christo because he really knew offense, one would think just a little of that would translate into know something about defenses.

any good engineer can reverse engineer something and seeing how it works mikey was clueless in that regard..

[MOtorboat]

As for hanesworth not sure what his salary cap numbers were. If they were not 8-10 mil per year then I would have loved to have that monster on the team. He is a difference maker he just did not want to play for the little general like so many other BIG guys did not.

Can't say that he was treated with any respect last year. And really do not totally blame him for what happened ther

Oh dear Elway...your blaming Shanahan for that? You have to be joking. Right?

[Lonestar]

Actually Lonestar that is completely false, if you look at the numbers the defenses were always better then they appeared during Shanahan's tenure hear in Denver - 96' (7th), 97' (6th), 98' (8th), 99' (11th), 00' (23rd), 01' (21st), 02' (15th), 03' (9th), 04' (9th), 05' (3rd), 06' (8th), 07' (28th) and 08' (30th)...

So during Shanahan's thirteen years in Denver only five of those years did he not have a top ten defense, one of which was 11th overall, so literally four horrid defenses. Notice how the worse two were his last two? He just had a different approach, so some blame could go to him for his lack of long-term ability to add talent, but not the whole mess.

yeah you can have a good defense on one side but lousy on teh other and still have an overall good defense..

How about those last couple of years WHEN HE WAS in charge of the Defense.. once he got rid of a relatively competent DC.

That folks is what got him fired his insistence of having his lacky slowick as his DC..

I'd have loved to have him as a HC that had real experienced GM that made the personnel decisions and over saw the DC..

I suspect that was an option that Pat presented him with and his EGO would not allow him to do it.

BTW just what has he done in WAS so far besides totally destroy a VERY good Defense IIRC with out looking it up went from #3 or 4 overall to 29-30.

yall want to love the guy more power to you..

but I'll see him for what he did over a 8-10 period fubar each and every day one draft except for possibly the 06 draft and IMO that is debatable also.. only time will really tell on that one also..

I see the base that Josh brought in the past two years as a HUGE improvement over what mikey did.. But then in two years we will know for sure about those guys also.. Get back to me if I'm wrong..

[MOtorboat]

So, now that this has turned into a Shanahan thread, who have the Redskins signed this year?

[chazoe60]

Shanahan wins two SBs. Goes to the AFCCG in '05. Goes 8-8 and falls apart at the end of the season with a team with horrible defense and an offense that puts up yards and not points and rightfully gets the boot(it was time for a change it happens). The new guy comes in guts the team and fields an offense that puts up yards and no points. Starts strong and fades to an 8-8 record (sounds familiar). Then he guts the team some more, gets caught cheating, extends our mopey loser QB for $9mill, and goes 3-9 before getting canned.

And somehow Lonestar praises the second guy and bashes the first guy? What to the infinity the ****?

[Ravage!!!]

I see the base that Josh brought in the past two years as a HUGE improvement over what mikey did.. But then in two years we will know for sure about those guys also.. Get back to me if I'm wrong..

You're wrong. :coffee:

[Lonestar]

Ooops,. somebody got their mancard pulled. :lol:

I did not see his post so let me answer it now.

did mikey show him any respect.. The guy flat told the guy I do not do NT.

yet mikey instead of trying to trade the guy, humiliated him in TC and forced the issue.

hell last year mikey could have gotten a couple of high draft choices for him couple of 1s or a bunch of twos for him..

but instead his ego got involved and he got a whooping # 5 in a draft that he will not be around to see in 2013.

NOw please explain how NOlan not wanting to take direction because of his ego, is the same thing..

HE was hired by Josh should have had the ground rules down pat before accepting the job, hanesworth was hired by Synder and had the ground rules changed when inherited the little general.

HUGE difference. at least IMO..

[MOtorboat]

but the concept of ZBS is fallacy it works between the twenties because most DC know that when the rubber hits the road inside the red zone your not going to score TD's with it.. YOU flat can't consistently move the beef on the DL with the back seven so close to the LOS

:pound:

[spikerman]

I did not see his post so let me answer it now.

did mikey show him any respect.. The guy flat told the guy I do not do NT.
The "guy" signed a contract to play football. He plays where the coaches tell him

yet mikey instead of trying to trade the guy, humiliated him in TC and forced the issue.Nobody was going to take on that contract

hell last year mikey could have gotten a couple of high draft choices for him couple of 1s or a bunch of twos for him..

but instead his ego got involved and he got a whooping # 5 in a draft that he will not be around to see in 2013.Shanahan is not the GM for the Redskins.

NOw please explain how NOlan not wanting to take direction because of his ego, is the same thing..
Your argument is complete hearsay, but even if true, Nolan has forgotten more about defense than McD will ever know and arguments between coaches happen all the time.

HE was hired by Josh should have had the ground rules down pat before accepting the job, hanesworth was hired by Synder and had the ground rules changed when inherited the little general. Again, Haynesworth signed a contract to be paid a LOT of money to do whatever the Redskins needed. Players typically don't dictate to coaches what they will and won't do. Usually it's the other way around.


Your dislike for Shanahan just astounds me, but it does make for entertaining reading. Thanks!

[Ravage!!!]

did mikey show him any respect.. The guy flat told the guy I do not do NT.
Wait, you want coaches to bow down to someone telling them wha tto do, but then want the players to dictate wher ethey play and where they don't? Horse crap. You would have blown a gasket if any player named Marshall or Cutler would have said they aren't playing their position.


yet mikey instead of trying to trade the guy, humiliated him in TC and forced the issue.
You mean after Shanahan took a trip to visit with him and ask him if he was going to play? Humiliated him by having him take a physical test after he held out? How come you weren't talking about McD humiliating Marshall in TC's before Marshall started kicking footballs? Have you looked up the word hypocrite yet?


hell last year mikey could have gotten a couple of high draft choices for him couple of 1s or a bunch of twos for him..
but instead his ego got involved and he got a whooping # 5 in a draft that he will not be around to see in 2013.
Probably not. Mike went out and specifically asked if Haynesworth is going going to play. Haynesworth assured him that he WAS going to play, and so Mike took his word for it and that they had a mutual understanding as to Haynesworth showing up for practices and camps. Then Haynesworth started to pull his shit, despite just being paid 100 million by the 'skins.

Shanahan isn't in charge of player personnel in Washington.



hanesworth was hired by Synder and had the ground rules changed when inherited the little general.
:pound:

omg. :lol: this is just unbelievable. Shanahan is the one that inherited Haynesworth. Haynesworth is the employee..right? How is the EMPLOYEE not doing his job that he is paid for different than an assistant not taking directions that you claim happened? WOW... seriously.. you truly are just unbelievably blind.


HUGE difference. at least IMO..

uh huh... of course it is :coffee:

[Lonestar]

Your dislike for Shanahan just astounds me, but it does make for entertaining reading. Thanks!

Thanks for the thought and realizing it is not hate like a couple of folks think..''Just maybe my thoughts will enlighten folks to see that he was great and then became average.. and his GM duties killed the team..
Can any one fathom just how good this team would have been with a GM making the calls on player personnel on draft days and not FUBARING 8 out of ten day one picks.. over his reign in DEN. allow him to worry ONLY about Xs and Os.

allow someone else to worry about scouting and picking players..

Mikey goes to say NEwsome and says I'm going to need a TE, and a OLT over the next couple of years as Zimmerman and Sharpe are going to retire find me one for their replacement. and lets plan on getting some depth at OG/OC and I really would like to get rid of poortis cause he is a PITA dressing up like a girl.. see if you can find a suitable player in return..

and that ashley guy I took before you came on board he is a head case and can't get and YAC.. I have a feeling that he is gong to flake on us when or even before the next contract comes up..

Ok I can go motivate the players cause we have Detroit next week and we all know that trap games coming off that big win at OAK we seem to have a problem the next week with getting up for games..

Glad I do not have to worry about all the minutiae.

I have wondered about that for a long time.. just maybe the guy would not have been average the last few years..

[Northman]

yeah yeah the record means he was the worst HC in the history of the game.

We all know that is bovine excrement.. at least if you are not as you say sucking on mikeys teat..

so spare me and everyone else your anti josh rants.

We all knew deep down inside that this franchise has been rotten to almost the core for a long time. but because of those two rings he brought to the city NO ONE wanted to do the right thing and that was fire him as the defacto GM and overseer of the defense.

we all knew that we needed to rebuild years ago not just reload like those in the smack section would tell opposing fans .

" look at our record" would be the replies "we have the best RB core" in the league we run the ZBS and no one can stop it.. mikey is a rb guru can find gems in the late rounds same applied to the OL guys ..


when in fact he was blowing the real foundation picks those on day one (1-3 now day one through early day 3) left and right.

you just do not rebuild a team in two drafts like everyone here seemed to think would happen.

oh he should have only drafted on D because that is what ONLY needed to be fixed..

but the concept of ZBS is fallacy it works between the twenties because most DC know that when the rubber hits the road inside the red zone your not going to score TD's with it.. YOU flat can't consistently move the beef on the DL with the back seven so close to the LOS.

it has been that way since the HOF group of players retired..

did josh make mistakes sure he did but lets not be irrational and blame all of this teams issues on him..

he started the rebuild with solid players and that should prove out over the next few years.

If they do not give me a call then.. till then cut the Josh ruined the franchise BS.. or at least tone it down..

and to those that still think I HATE mikey your so wrong I just did not buy his BS, any more and saw him for what he was a little man with to much power.

Jesus Christo because he really knew offense, one would think just a little of that would translate into know something about defenses.

any good engineer can reverse engineer something and seeing how it works mikey was clueless in that regard..


I did not see his post so let me answer it now.

did mikey show him any respect.. The guy flat told the guy I do not do NT.

yet mikey instead of trying to trade the guy, humiliated him in TC and forced the issue.

hell last year mikey could have gotten a couple of high draft choices for him couple of 1s or a bunch of twos for him..

but instead his ego got involved and he got a whooping # 5 in a draft that he will not be around to see in 2013.

NOw please explain how NOlan not wanting to take direction because of his ego, is the same thing..

HE was hired by Josh should have had the ground rules down pat before accepting the job, hanesworth was hired by Synder and had the ground rules changed when inherited the little general.

HUGE difference. at least IMO..


Im currently in the middle of Djing so i cant respond to all this tripe just yet but rest assured i will tear it apart like i always do. Stay tuned.....

*sent via ownberry*

[chazoe60]

Wait, you can't score rushing TDs in the RZ with the ZBS? So how many of TD's TDs didn't really happen? Did we actually lose SBXXXII? I think we did most of our scoring in the RZ in that game. Pretty sure our ZBS had "the big guy on skates" inthat game.

Dammit, do we have to return the trophy? Maybe my hat is worth more now since we didn't really win the game.

[nevcraw]

Im currently in the middle of Djing so i cant respond to all this tripe just yet but rest assured i will tear it apart like i always do. Stay tuned.....

*sent via ownberry*

Have you played "Stairway to Heaven" yet?

[Northman]

Have you played "Stairway to Heaven" yet?

No, but i have played "Whatever Hate Provides". :lol:

[Ravage!!!]

Wait, you can't score rushing TDs in the RZ with the ZBS? So how many of TD's TDs didn't really happen? Did we actually lose SBXXXII? I think we did most of our scoring in the RZ in that game. Pretty sure our ZBS had "the big guy on skates" inthat game.

Dammit, do we have to return the trophy? Maybe my hat is worth more now since we didn't really win the game.

No no. His theory is that the NFL has "caught up" to the ZBS and now everyone knows how to defend it. :confused:

I guess no one should tell the Packer this, or they won't win the Super Bowl last year.

[Tned]

Wait, you can't score rushing TDs in the RZ with the ZBS? So how many of TD's TDs didn't really happen? Did we actually lose SBXXXII? I think we did most of our scoring in the RZ in that game. Pretty sure our ZBS had "the big guy on skates" inthat game.

Dammit, do we have to return the trophy? Maybe my hat is worth more now since we didn't really win the game.

Didn't you hear, Jr claims shanahan only won one playoff game in his final 12 years in Denver. Lonestar Jr claims the two SB wins never happened, so it makes sense he clams the TD's didn't happen.

[MOtorboat]

For what its worth, AP reporting that Miller and CaRter are back practicing after minor injuries yesterday.

Prater, Woodyard and McBean have signed and are at practice, but under CBA rules, UFA signees can't practice until next week (first I had heard that).

D.J. and Hill sat out, along with Dawkins who is apparently redoing his contract.

[tomjonesrocks]

Retaining Prater was probably the most impressive thing the Broncos have accomplished so far.

Shows how underwhelming things have been to this point...

[Lonestar]

Wait, you can't score rushing TDs in the RZ with the ZBS? So how many of TD's TDs didn't really happen? Did we actually lose SBXXXII? I think we did most of our scoring in the RZ in that game. Pretty sure our ZBS had "the big guy on skates" inthat game.

Dammit, do we have to return the trophy? Maybe my hat is worth more now since we didn't really win the game.

DID you not read the rest of the comment SINCE the HOF players left that included TD we have sucked in the red zone.. had one maybe two years when inside the 5 we were able to smash it in mike the marine and mike the Bell really carried the load for those two years but other than that we have sucked inside the red zone running the ball.

Did you ever wonder why Elam led the league in scoring while in DEN it was not because of all the PATs, it was because we stalled inside the ten for the most part.. and we had to settle for those pesky 25-40 yard FG's

and TD well he scored a lot of TD's from outside the red zone also.. once he cleared the LOS he was a lot faster than he was clocked at the combine..

BTW once we started playing true 3-4 defense they killed our running game. and those that ran the 4-3 learned by it by not allowing the OL to feint and move and get the DL moving.. they learned that IF you stay at home and take care of your LANE the ZBS does not consistently move the ball..

no cut back lanes IF you do not move out of your gaps.. and our puny assed OL for the longest times could not beat the DL guys because they were out weighed by as much as 50 pound in the middle of the LOS..

Make fun all you want but watch and see if they do the ZBS this year how much better it is with 310 pound guys instead of 285 guys works out..

[MOtorboat]

Shanahan was fired 2 1/2 years ago. It's effing training camp time and you're derailing a thread about this year's signings and things happening at training camp. Get off your ******* high horse, come back to reality and quit hating Shanahan, like a scorned 16-year-old girl.

OK...

Anyone know why D.J. is sitting?

[tomjonesrocks]

Anyone know why D.J. is sitting?

Is he sitting right now? Would be interested to know the answer to that as well -- as there's been light speculation the Broncos might dangle D.J. as trade bait for some time...keeping him uninjured while they shop him?

[Lonestar]

Is he sitting right now? Would be interested to know the answer to that as well -- as there's been light speculation the Broncos might dangle D.J. as trade bait for some time...keeping him uninjured while they shop him?

lets hope so he is totally over rated and paid IMO..

[Tned]

Shanahan was fired 2 1/2 years ago. It's effing training camp time and you're derailing a thread about this year's signings and things happening at training camp. Get off your ******* high horse, come back to reality and quit hating Shanahan, like a scorned 16-year-old girl.

OK...

Anyone know why D.J. is sitting?


Cheers :salute:

And

Thigh strain.

[MOtorboat]

lets hope so he is totally over rated and paid IMO..

No he's not. He's the best damn linebacker on the team, and he's just had crap around him. Hopefully Miller and Irving are the real deal and we get back to fast, mean linebackers on this team.

[Lonestar]

No he's not. He's the best damn linebacker on the team, and he's just had crap around him. Hopefully Miller and Irving are the real deal and we get back to fast, mean linebackers on this team.

DJ is hardly a mean LB, if anything he is a catch them from behind type tackler, FROM what I have seen over the years. He is not a thumper and rarely makes a play AT the LOS or behind it.. for his contract value I just do not think he is all that..

MAybe moving him back to WLB will be the best thing that happened to him I know him playing out of his natural position not impressed with his tackle only numbers..

[DenBronx]

Yeah, DJ is kinda soft. A little overated in my opinion too. I might get flammed for that but that's just what I see.

I miss the nasty Romonowski type LB's on our team. Even Al Wilson wasnt afraid to hit someone.

[Dzone]

We have had 6 years of bad drafts, bad trades, bad FA signings, Bad management, Bad decisions, Bad coaching, millions of dollars wasted...

[Lonestar]

Yeah, DJ is kinda soft. A little overated in my opinion too. I might get flammed for that but that's just what I see.

I miss the nasty Romonowski type LB's on our team. Even Al Wilson wasnt afraid to hit someone.

AL Started to hit guys after he had broken his hands a couple of time he seemed not able to wrap them up then he started with the big hits hoping they would go down after it..

I felt sorry for the guy (BTW he was the last player the mikey drafted as best available player because at that time we did not need a LB.)

He was a great player in those first few years then the banging he took because our D was not making of the OL blocks just took a toll on him.

[Lonestar]

We have had 6 years of bad drafts, bad trades, bad FA signings, Bad management, Bad decisions, Bad coaching, millions of dollars wasted...

Ever wonder how much that wasted money added up to. I'll bet it is a shade shy of a hundred Mil..

Think of what kind of good FA talent it could have had for it or How many of the guys we could not afford because of cap hell might have stayed if we would have had room opposed to carrying 10-20 mil a year in dead money..

[Dzone]

Yeah, DJ is kinda soft. A little overated in my opinion too. I might get flammed for that but that's just what I see.

I miss the nasty Romonowski type LB's on our team. Even Al Wilson wasnt afraid to hit someone.

Romo!!!!
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn11/malibubluff/romo.jpg

[FanInAZ]

I backed into a cactus while mowing my yard today.


.

How much to you spend on your water bill in order to get your grass to grow in AZ enough to warrant having to cut it in the 1st place?

[Dzone]

Looks like Denver will have to rebuild thru the draft. Hope thats not going to take 2-3 years. That would suck

[Dzone]

Cullen Jenkins just signed with the Eagles...way to go EFX

Eagles will be led into the super bowl by Vince Young

[Canmore]

Looks like Denver will have to rebuild thru the draft. Hope thats not going to take 2-3 years. That would suck

As bad as we were two years would be a miracle. We need a great combination of drafted players and free agents. Doesn't look like we can afford the latter. It looks like a multi year process unfortunately.

[Lancane]

I miss Romo, but could you imagine him in the league now with all the stiff-neck rules?

James Harrison would look and sound like a saint compared to Romo! :lol:

[CoachChaz]

Cullen Jenkins just signed with the Eagles...way to go EFX

Eagles will be led into the super bowl by Vince Young

Word is...they are a candidate to sign Plax, too.

Either way, i'll be shocked if Jenkins plays a full season

[dogfish]

man, the eagles are stepping so far out of their usual model. . . they never sign old vets. . . this franchise is going 100% all-in to win one with vick in the next year or two. . . i've always been a philly fan in the NFC-- should be fun to watch. . .

[DenBronx]

AL Started to hit guys after he had broken his hands a couple of time he seemed not able to wrap them up then he started with the big hits hoping they would go down after it..

I felt sorry for the guy (BTW he was the last player the mikey drafted as best available player because at that time we did not need a LB.)

He was a great player in those first few years then the banging he took because our D was not making of the OL blocks just took a toll on him.

Yeah and not to mention a severe neck injury. You could tell he wanted to just lay someone out at times but really couldnt. After that he could never pass a physical with a team and had to retire.

[DenBronx]

man, the eagles are stepping so far out of their usual model. . . they never sign old vets. . . this franchise is going 100% all-in to win one with vick in the next year or two. . . i've always been a philly fan in the NFC-- should be fun to watch. . .



shame on you...:tsk:


there's no other team but the Broncos...:cool:

[DenBronx]

I miss Romo, but could you imagine him in the league now with all the stiff-neck rules?

James Harrison would look and sound like a saint compared to Romo! :lol:


yeah i'm pretty sure romo would be a regular for a fine each week the way the league is heading nowdays.

[dogfish]

shame on you...:tsk:


there's no other team but the Broncos...:cool:

man, if i confined the enjoyment of football solely to the broncos, i would have stopped watching football a long time ago. . . :lol:

[Canmore]

man, if i confined the enjoyment of football solely to the broncos, i would have stopped watching football a long time ago. . . :lol:

Cold.

[Dzone]

Vince Young quoted calling the Eagles The Dream Team.
Cant disagree with that. Plus they are loaded up with future draft choices.

[DenBronx]

man, if i confined the enjoyment of football solely to the broncos, i would have stopped watching football a long time ago. . . :lol:

thats why fantasy football is so much fun....especially when your team only wins 2 games the whole year. you can at least cheer for players.


Vince Young quoted calling the Eagles The Dream Team.
Cant disagree with that. Plus they are loaded up with future draft choices.

their free agent aquisitions this offseason is shocking. their also in the market for plax. :shocked:

[DenBronx]

here's a breakdown by adam shefter for what the eagles have done so far this offseason.


AdamSchefterAdam Schefter





As if they needed the help, Eagles now have two 2s, two 4s, two 5s and two 6s in 2012 draft. Talk about a well-run organization.

33 minutes ago









AdamSchefterAdam Schefter





RT @BloggerJustinF: You forgot Jason Babin and Vince Young, too. ... Only have 140 characters.

36 minutes ago









AdamSchefterAdam Schefter





Right about now, the Eagles are a Plaxico-Burress signing away from become more intriguing than the Miami Heat.

45 minutes ago









AdamSchefterAdam Schefter





In past 48 hours, Eagles have added Cullen Jenkins, Nnamdi Asomugha, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and extra second- and fifth-round picks.

49 minutes ago









AdamSchefterAdam Schefter





Eagles trade DT Brodrick Bunkley to Cleveland for 5th round pick in 2012 and agreed to terms with LB Akeem Jordan on a one-year deal.

57 minutes ago


»






AdamSchefterAdam Schefter





Rich get richer: Former Packers DT Cullen Jenkins reached agreement with the Eagles on a five year, $25 million deal.

1 hour ago









AdamSchefterAdam Schefter

[HORSEPOWER 56]

OK...

Anyone know why D.J. is sitting?

Maybe the Broncos are trying to re-do his large deal, too? Dawkins can't play because of it, maybe they decided to do DJ's too and now he can't practice, either... :confused:

[dogfish]

holy ****, i can't believe the iggles traded bunkley for a 5th. . . :tsk:

[CoachChaz]

man, the eagles are stepping so far out of their usual model. . . they never sign old vets. . . this franchise is going 100% all-in to win one with vick in the next year or two. . . i've always been a philly fan in the NFC-- should be fun to watch. . .

Me too...but I think most already knew that. Gives us someone to root for until Denver gets it together

[HORSEPOWER 56]

holy ****, i can't believe the iggles traded bunkley for a 5th. . . :tsk:

And worse, not to us... :tsk:

[Lonestar]

holy ****, i can't believe the iggles traded bunkley for a 5th. . . :tsk:
After seeing him the combine he was someone i really wanted on our team.
The guy is a beast physically. At the combine I doubt he had a pound of visible fat on him.

Wonder why they trdEd him. I have not followed him since the draft I figured he would have been worth more than a 5.

[Lonestar]

Let me add I've always liked the Eagles in that division since I really dislike the cowgirls and skins.

Not fond of the NYG either love any one that cam beat all of them.

[dogfish]

After seeing him the combine he was someone i really wanted on our team.
The guy is a beast physically. At the combine I doubt he had a pound of visible fat on him.

Wonder why they trdEd him. I have not followed him since the draft I figured he would have been worth more than a 5.

they probably had to move somebody to free up some ducats for this massive FA splurge. . . i'm guessing they decided to cut bait with bunkley because he's not really the upfield type of tackle they prefer-- or maybe his surgically-repaired knees are making them nervous. . .

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Any like I had for the Eagles passed when Jim Johnson did (RIP).

If I had to pick an NFC East team to root for, I'd pick the Giants. Smash mouth running, sweet pass rush, and because they bitch-slapped the smug grin right off of Tom Brady and Bill Bellicheat's face in the Superbowl.

[Sighlix]

Unfortunately this is a prime example of an inexperienced from office. Xanders said they were ready but can't even get the cap to a level to add a single player. Eagles are schooling the league. Watch Denver wiff on Okoye next

[Lancane]

Who cares about the Smeagles, they can't even find a ring let alone win one!

:lol:

It's all about Canadian Football if I need my fix, for I am no traitor!

Viva La Broncos...:D

[nevcraw]

Yeah, DJ is kinda soft. A little overated in my opinion too. I might get flammed for that but that's just what I see.

I miss the nasty Romonowski type LB's on our team. Even Al Wilson wasnt afraid to hit someone.

I'd saw a nut to have that goofy roided ******* in his prime back on this team..

[nevcraw]

you can say shit but not use the word for a fatherless child?? what gives..

[Slick]

Bowlen isn't nearly as rich as many NFL owners iirc. I think that has something to do with Denver not being as aggressive as other teams.

[Lancane]

Bowlen isn't nearly as rich as many NFL owners iirc. I think that has something to do with Denver not being as aggressive as other teams.

If that is the case then the owners should force him to sell the team or force him into a partnership with someone. There is no room in professional sports for thrift spending, not when the pro leagues are trying to introduce better more well rounded competition throughout their respective leagues. It hurts not only the fan bases and markets of those teams, but the team's competitiveness as a professional sports team in whole.

[Krugan]

You can have all the money in the world, but if you have a spending limit it becomes pointless.

From what I see, we are up against that cap, so "having money" isnt the issue, or shouldnt be taken that way.

[dogfish]

Bowlen isn't nearly as rich as many NFL owners iirc. I think that has something to do with Denver not being as aggressive as other teams.

can you get him a dozen pounds of pure columbian by monday morning? we need to generate some dinero, fast. . . .

[MOtorboat]

Bowlen isn't nearly as rich as many NFL owners iirc. I think that has something to do with Denver not being as aggressive as other teams.

I don't think it goes into effect until next year, but in the new CBA, teams will have to spend at least 90 percent of the cap.

[dogfish]

You can have all the money in the world, but if you have a spending limit it becomes pointless.

From what I see, we are up against that cap, so "having money" isnt the issue, or shouldnt be taken that way.

just depends on which report you believe-- they're all over the place. . .

in any case, the onus falls on the front office either way. . . if we're really in cap hell for a team that won four lousy games last year, we must have the most inept ****ing capologist in the league. . . who's been our cap guy the last two years? oh yea, that jackass brian xanders-- the dude that got promoted. . . .

seriously, we cut bannan, williams and graham before the lockout, and we've released buckhalter and hill and traded gaffney. . . and we STILL don't have cap space for a couple small moves? that seems beyond fishy-- but even if we accept it at face value, it still leaves the onus to take care of it on the front office. . . if we're THAT strapped, why do we still employ the league's highest-paid long snapper, for example? and why didn't they just bite the bullet and release dawkins? leadership be damned-- six mil a year is insane for a 400-year-old safety, no matter how fierce. . . even three mil a year is retarded when it's probably about half of what it would have cost this year to get mebane out of seattle, or at least get cullen jenkins. . . i mean, we have FOUR safeties dratfed in the last two years, plus nate jones and hill (until today)-- and we're going to pay dawk three mil or more a year for leadership, while we ask our young 'backers and safeties to develop and play well in front of street free agents at tackle? just stupid. . .

and if orton's contract is actually the holdup, they should have just dumped his ass once they failed to execute a trade quickly. . . the eventual third of fourth we might still get lucky and squeeze out of it isn't worth missing out on signing some legit DL help-- especially YOUNG talent like mebane or coefield, where we would have gotten almost all of their prime years with no development needed. . .

sheesh. . . have we even been able to actually sing the running back they wanted, that fox himself said was their "top priority?"



i don't care if people don't like the complaints (although understand i'm mostly chuckling and not scowling at my keyboard)-- it looks like amateur hour all the way at dove valley, and they better prove to be some serious world-class dumpster divers if they intend to salvage anything at this rate. . .

[dogfish]

I don't think it goes into effect until next year, but in the new CBA, teams will have to spend at least 90 percent of the cap.

it doesn't take effect on an individual, team-by-team basis until 2013. . . PFT had an article on it-- there's a thread going over at the mane. . .

[shank]

word of the day: onus.

[TXBRONC]

relax, fellas. . . at least we still have the highest-paid long snapper in the game. . .


:welcome:

Hey he's the highest paid freakin long snapper in the League because he has extraordinary skills. :D

[Lancane]

Hey he's the highest paid freakin long snapper in the League because he has extraordinary skills. :D

Yep, he's F'n impressive, I've never seen a long-snapper so good, what a G'damn All-Pro!

He'd impress me more if he could play iron-man football at sure up the defensive line and have something like seventy-tackles, ten for a loss, a dozen or so hurries as well as a six sacks...yeah, that sounds about right.

:lol:

[SOCALORADO.]

just depends on which report you believe-- they're all over the place. . .

in any case, the onus falls on the front office either way. . . if we're really in cap hell for a team that won four lousy games last year, we must have the most inept ****ing capologist in the league. . . who's been our cap guy the last two years? oh yea, that jackass brian xanders-- the dude that got promoted. . . .

seriously, we cut bannan, williams and graham before the lockout, and we've released buckhalter and hill and traded gaffney. . . and we STILL don't have cap space for a couple small moves? that seems beyond fishy-- but even if we accept it at face value, it still leaves the onus to take care of it on the front office. . . if we're THAT strapped, why do we still employ the league's highest-paid long snapper, for example? and why didn't they just bite the bullet and release dawkins? leadership be damned-- six mil a year is insane for a 400-year-old safety, no matter how fierce. . . even three mil a year is retarded when it's probably about half of what it would have cost this year to get mebane out of seattle, or at least get cullen jenkins. . . i mean, we have FOUR safeties dratfed in the last two years, plus nate jones and hill (until today)-- and we're going to pay dawk three mil or more a year for leadership, while we ask our young 'backers and safeties to develop and play well in front of street free agents at tackle? just stupid. . .

and if orton's contract is actually the holdup, they should have just dumped his ass once they failed to execute a trade quickly. . . the eventual third of fourth we might still get lucky and squeeze out of it isn't worth missing out on signing some legit DL help-- especially YOUNG talent like mebane or coefield, where we would have gotten almost all of their prime years with no development needed. . .

sheesh. . . have we even been able to actually sing the running back they wanted, that fox himself said was their "top priority?"



i don't care if people don't like the complaints (although understand i'm mostly chuckling and not scowling at my keyboard)-- it looks like amateur hour all the way at dove valley, and they better prove to be some serious world-class dumpster divers if they intend to salvage anything at this rate. . .

Well, i never get on the interwebs on the weekends, but this crap is just unbelievable. EFX= RANK AMATEURS.

Didnt Fox say they were going to be "active" in FA to deal with the issues they didnt address in the draft?? I swear he said something to this effect.
And that RB was the top priority, so they went and paid a 30 year old has-been. Awesome.
But the Orton debacle is proof these guys are just clueless. To completely scew this up and be bent over by Ireland is just pathetic. Get what you can freakin get for him knowing full well what the situation is, and that yes, these other teams arent run by morons and they know the situation as well, and make the deal based on this knowledge. If its a 5th or a 6th then it is what it is. If orton is worth so much, why iss he still in DEN taking snaps and looking like the only guy who has a clue? Cause the front office wants to win now, and Orton gives them the best chance to win now so they tried to trade him so they could fail, look like idiots, and then keep him secretly motivating him to be a pro-Bowl calibur QB. Yeah, thats it. Great.

And still no DTs for that grand canyon sized hole in the middle of the defense.
Didnt someone do the math and figure out who they had to release and what moves they needed to make to have cap space to make a modest move to get a half way decent DT!?!?!? seriously...WTF?!?!
Thats the excuse?!?! "We dont have the cap space" So....no one thought to address this issue to be able to make just some modest moves to shore up the nightmare in the middle?!?! But they were in negotiations with players like Mebane and DeAngelo Williams. Why?!?!
Obviously these players were top tier FAs and were going to command big $$$$, and yet DEN was talking to them, and in "serious negotiations" at some point. What were they going to pay them with? Monopoly money? If they are indeed in such dire straights financially, then there was/is absolutely no reason to be in talks with these caliber of players. Yet they were at some point. That makes no sense.
The whole FO is just one giant cluster-F***.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j125/03tiger/dumpsterfire.jpg

[chazoe60]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j125/03tiger/dumpsterfire.jpg

The thread, or the Off season so far?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The thread, or the Off season so far?

The offseason, by a landslide. I almost texted you today I was so irritated. :lol:

I'm remembering what Elway said a few days ago when Vic and Gary asked him if they were going to sign any DT's that had a proven track record in the league.

John immediately referenced the waiver wire...translation- "oh no, we're not gonna do that, we're gonna what til' everyone is finished with dinner then we're gonna go dumpster diving." Yippee!

Bowlen needs to sell the team if he's not gonna spend money. I'm tired of this. We're turning into the Pittsburgh Pirates of the NFL. Denver has been in the bottom 5 of player payroll the last 3 years. We have the cap room. The only explanation is that either Bowlen or Ellis, or both, refuse to spend the money.

The only reason they extended Bailey and Elvis is because they don't want to see Dove Valley burned to the ground by the fan base.

[chazoe60]

The offseason, by a landslide. I almost texted you today I was so irritated. :lol:

I'm remembering what Elway said a few days ago when Vic and Gary asked him if they were going to sign any DT's that had a proven track record in the league.

John immediately referenced the waiver wire...translation- "oh no, we're not gonna do that, we're gonna what til' everyone is finished with dinner then we're gonna go dumpster diving." Yippee!

Bowlen needs to sell the team if he's not gonna spend money. I'm tired of this. We're turning into the Pittsburgh Pirates of the NFL. Denver has been in the bottom 5 of player payroll the last 3 years. We have the cap room. The only explanation is that either Bowlen or Ellis, or both, refuse to spend the money.

The only reason they extended Bailey and Elvis is because they don't want to see Dove Valley burned to the ground by the fan base.

I'm right there with ya brother. We also come out of this whole thing looking like idiots. The next time I see "Player A visited Denver" followed by "Player A signed with any team except Denver" I think I'm gonna freak out.

Also the thought of watching Orton for another season really has me lethargic (ironic isn't it) in my enthusiasm for the season.

I guess I'll put my attention on following the Defense and Von (who I just love BTW) and use the time when Orton is on the field as a time to get another beer, mow the lawn, shoot my bow, etc................. That may be the only way I can make through a season of him.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'm not looking foward to watching "Eyeore Orton" either.

I'm sick of this...Bowlen needs to sell. I appreciate it what he did for the franchise, but enough is enough. We won't be stopping anyone in the running game if Vickerson and Leonard are our starting DT's. Teams won't even get to third down when attacking us.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa114/rayneehoe/eyeore-1.jpg

Your starting QB for 2011!

[chazoe60]

I'm not looking foward to watching "Eyeore Orton" either.

I'm sick of this...Bowlen needs to sell. I appreciate it what he did for the franchise, but enough is enough. We won't be stopping anyone in the running game if Vickerson and Leonard are our starting DT's. Teams won't even get to third down when attacking us.

I don't know that Bowlen's relatively shallow pockets are the problem though. There is a salary floor now and it is pretty friggin high, so he has to pen that anyway.

The salary cap situation is confusing as can be for me, are we $20mil under the cap or $8mil over? I've heard it both ways.

We have blown so many opportunities though. Haynesworth, even though I wouldn't want him but he at least fills our biggest need and he went for a 5th round pick two years from now. Mebane signs for a very reasonable amount and we just miss out. It seems like we're missing out on Okoye. And a guy who I know both you and I thought did a pretty darned good job when given the opportunity last season, and a guy who actually wants to be here in Marcus Thomas can't even get resigned? Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I usually hate the cooky conspiracy type stuff but maybe we are entering the "suck for luck" race on purpose.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't know that Bowlen's relatively shallow pockets are the problem though. There is a salary floor now and it is pretty friggin high, so he has to pen that anyway.

The salary cap situation is confusing as can be for me, are we $20mil under the cap or $8mil over? I've heard it both ways.

We have blown so many opportunities though. Haynesworth, even though I wouldn't want him but he at least fills our biggest need and he went for a 5th round pick two years from now. Mebane signs for a very reasonable amount and we just miss out. It seems like we're missing out on Okoye. And a guy who I know both you and I thought did a pretty darned good job when given the opportunity last season, and a guy who actually wants to be here in Marcus Thomas can't even get resigned? Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I usually hate the cooky conspiracy type stuff but maybe we are entering the "suck for luck" race on purpose.

From what I understand, the floor doesn't go into effect until 2013, so I expect the Broncos to be around $15 million under the cap.

[chazoe60]

From what I understand, the floor doesn't go into effect until 2013, so I expect the Broncos to be around $15 million under the cap.

Really? I didn't know that.

I heard that the Bengals are something like 50mil under the floor. :laugh: Maybe they'd take bOrton off of our hands just so they could spend some cash?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Really? I didn't know that.

I heard that the Bengals are something like 50mil under the floor. :laugh: Maybe they'd take bOrton off of our hands just so they could spend some cash?

A fella can dream, can't he? :laugh:

[MileHiWildcat]

I especially love the move of getting a RB with two bum knees....it is effin' brilliant !

[Lonestar]

If that is the case then the owners should force him to sell the team or force him into a partnership with someone. There is no room in professional sports for thrift spending, not when the pro leagues are trying to introduce better more well rounded competition throughout their respective leagues. It hurts not only the fan bases and markets of those teams, but the team's competitiveness as a professional sports team in whole.

From everything I have heard we are screwed to the wall with the salary cap..

Pat finances have zero to do with that.. he can't open a wallet and spend more than the cap.

yet in some corners I hear we are 20 mil under it..

WIsh we knew for sure what is going on..

But then just how many millions did mikey waste on his personnel moves and how many mil did we carry in dead cap space for each of all of those years..

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

From everything I have heard we are screwed to the wall with the salary cap..

Pat finances have zero to do with that.. he can't open a wallet and spend more than the cap.

yet in some corners I hear we are 20 mil under it..

WIsh we knew for sure what is going on..

But then just how many millions did mikey waste on his personnel moves and how many mil did we carry in dead cap space for each of all of those years..

Ted Sundquist tweeted the Broncos are seventeen million under the cap. The restraints are due to a lack of resources, or a lack of willingness to use them.

[Lonestar]

Ted Sundquist tweeted the Broncos are seventeen million under the cap. The restraints are due to a lack of resources, or a lack of willingness to use them.

and ted knows this because he works for the broncos?

[Lancane]

Ted Sundquist tweeted the Broncos are seventeen million under the cap. The restraints are due to a lack of resources, or a lack of willingness to use them.

If that is so then I'm glad for the 'new' CBA stipulations that teams must spend at least 90% of the cap annually. Bowlen can not remain a subscriber of the Thrifty-Nickel once that begins.

[shank]

and ted knows this because he works for the broncos?

he couldn't possibly still know anyone that works in the building or have contacts in the know, could he?

no, that is completely

http://www.totalmortgage.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/inconceivable.jpg

[Dzone]

I especially love the move of getting a RB with two bum knees....it is effin' brilliant !
Come back for a visit again sometime. :welcome:

[shank]

Come back for a visit again sometime. :welcome:

but... knowing what we know now, that seems like the exact opposite of what we want.

[claymore]

The offseason, by a landslide. I almost texted you today I was so irritated. :lol:

I'm remembering what Elway said a few days ago when Vic and Gary asked him if they were going to sign any DT's that had a proven track record in the league.

John immediately referenced the waiver wire...translation- "oh no, we're not gonna do that, we're gonna what til' everyone is finished with dinner then we're gonna go dumpster diving." Yippee!

Bowlen needs to sell the team if he's not gonna spend money. I'm tired of this. We're turning into the Pittsburgh Pirates of the NFL. Denver has been in the bottom 5 of player payroll the last 3 years. We have the cap room. The only explanation is that either Bowlen or Ellis, or both, refuse to spend the money.

The only reason they extended Bailey and Elvis is because they don't want to see Dove Valley burned to the ground by the fan base.Maybe Bowlen wants to do it right and build through the draft? Maybe he doesnt want to blow the future by overspending on overpriced dooshbag FA's.

Our team will be better than the one fielded last year. Thats all that matters.

[Lancane]

Maybe Bowlen wants to do it right and build through the draft? Maybe he doesnt want to blow the future by overspending on overpriced dooshbag FA's.

Our team will be better than the one fielded last year. Thats all that matters.

Horton is still hear, we'll be starting a rookie right tackle, our defensive ends are transitional players (Give Ayers) we don't know how Dumervil will transition back at his new weight, we have no quality or depth at defensive tackle and our defensive backfield has several new faces to boot...not to mention that Moreno is lighter and we can only hope that he does well in the new blocking scheme, we signed a rotational tailback to compete with Moreno and White.

The only bright spots of this team is the offensive line, linebacker corps, possibly our defensive ends - yet we have no clue and Bailey.

Optimism is all good and dandy, but the shits are still the shits rather be it in Mexico or Colorado!

;)















:lol:

[claymore]

Horton is still hear, we'll be starting a rookie right tackle, our defensive ends are transitional players (Give Ayers) we don't know how Dumervil will transition back at his new weight, we have no quality or depth at defensive tackle and our defensive backfield has several new faces to boot...not to mention that Moreno is lighter and we can only hope that he does well in the new blocking scheme, we signed a rotational tailback to compete with Moreno and White.

The only bright spots of this team is the offensive line, linebacker corps, possibly our defensive ends - yet we have no clue and Bailey.

Optimism is all good and dandy, but the shits are still the shits rather be it in Mexico or Colorado!

;)















:lol:

I know people hate Orton, but he is the best we have. The cream will rise to the top of depth chart (Tebow). If he doesnt, then he is a turd.

Think of what Mcdaniels left this team with. A shitty Offense, a terrible Defense, and a pretty bad ST's. We all want DT's. But the truth is there were only maybe 5 good players on our team before the draft.
Our QB's suck, RB (Probably suck) we have some decent WR's, but none have been consistently good.

The list goes on and on. No real bright spot. It will take time. No FA signing will make us that much better.

[Tned]

I don't know that Bowlen's relatively shallow pockets are the problem though. There is a salary floor now and it is pretty friggin high, so he has to pen that anyway.

The salary cap situation is confusing as can be for me, are we $20mil under the cap or $8mil over? I've heard it both ways.

We have blown so many opportunities though. Haynesworth, even though I wouldn't want him but he at least fills our biggest need and he went for a 5th round pick two years from now. Mebane signs for a very reasonable amount and we just miss out. It seems like we're missing out on Okoye. And a guy who I know both you and I thought did a pretty darned good job when given the opportunity last season, and a guy who actually wants to be here in Marcus Thomas can't even get resigned? Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I usually hate the cooky conspiracy type stuff but maybe we are entering the "suck for luck" race on purpose.

Looks like there is a chance that they resign Marcus Thomas:



RT @JosinaAnderson: Sources: DT Marcus Thomas & camp scheduled to land in Denver around noonish. Will keep u posted on any changes, as best as I'm able #Broncos

[Lancane]

I know people hate Orton, but he is the best we have. The cream will rise to the top of depth chart (Tebow). If he doesnt, then he is a turd.

Think of what Mcdaniels left this team with. A shitty Offense, a terrible Defense, and a pretty bad ST's. We all want DT's. But the truth is there were only maybe 5 good players on our team before the draft.
Our QB's suck, RB (Probably suck) we have some decent WR's, but none have been consistently good.

The list goes on and on. No real bright spot. It will take time. No FA signing will make us that much better.

I understand what you're saying Clay, but I would rather see Brady Quinn as the starter over Orton, I don't care about the best we got, the coaches and front office need to show change or we might as well have kept McDaniels and let him continue on his 'Destruction Tour' of Denver.

We have needs, I'm not saying spend a shitload, actually Okoye, Mebane and others have fairly reasonable contracts, they wouldn't have hurt us that bad to sign one, then re-sign Thomas and we would have been up two veterans instead of having what we do, which isn't much of anything.

[claymore]

I understand what you're saying Clay, but I would rather see Brady Quinn as the starter over Orton, I don't care about the best we got, the coaches and front office need to show change or we might as well have kept McDaniels and let him continue on his 'Destruction Tour' of Denver.

We have needs, I'm not saying spend a shitload, actually Okoye, Mebane and others have fairly reasonable contracts, they wouldn't have hurt us that bad to sign one, then re-sign Thomas and we would have been up two veterans instead of having what we do, which isn't much of anything.
Well, I dont want to play the 2nd best we have. That doesnt make sense to me. We were in a bad position because McD drafted a QB in the first round last year that noone (NFL wise)thinks is ready to start. But we didnt know what we had, so we couldnt improve on that position.

Elway and Fox inherited an absolute mess. Lets pray they continue to look for the BPA, and dont mortgage the future on stupid picks/overpriced FA's.

[BroncoStud]

I know people hate Orton, but he is the best we have. The cream will rise to the top of depth chart (Tebow). If he doesnt, then he is a turd.

Think of what Mcdaniels left this team with. A shitty Offense, a terrible Defense, and a pretty bad ST's. We all want DT's. But the truth is there were only maybe 5 good players on our team before the draft.
Our QB's suck, RB (Probably suck) we have some decent WR's, but none have been consistently good.

The list goes on and on. No real bright spot. It will take time. No FA signing will make us that much better.

What GOOD does starting Orton do this team? How will the Broncos know what they have for next year by starting Orton? That's what I don't get...

You simply CANNOT let yourself go into the season with Orton as your starter unless you are 100% prepared to NOT get a strong evaluation of your other QBs yet again. Orton walks next season, and then Denver is stuck with Tebow, Quinn, and Weber, or which they know almost NOTHING about in meaningful situations.

And the 2012 draft class is VERY strong at QB. This whole thing stinks of amateur and poor planning. With all this down-time in the negotiations you would think Denver had plenty of time to formulate a good plan then execute it... Nope, we get schooled by Orton, maybe Miami, and haven't addressed a GAPING need at DT.

I just don't get it. If this runs it's course on the current path we will likely enter the 2012 offseason with Orton gone, no clue what we have behind him, no viable DTs on the roster, and a major need on the defensive front and at QB.

Keeping Orton does this team ZERO good. I had hoped that Elway and Xanders were smart enough to know that.

[chazoe60]

The big disappointment to me is that the Offseason started so promising. When it started it was "we're trading Orton and in serious talks with Mebane as well as others. We might land DWill." Now it's "we're keeping Orton and searching the couch cushions for enough change to sign Willis McGahee."

It's just frustrating.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Looks like there is a chance that they resign Marcus Thomas:

Marcus has an entourage? :lol:

[tomjonesrocks]

The big disappointment to me is that the Offseason started so promising. When it started it was "we're trading Orton and in serious talks with Mebane as well as others. We might land DWill." Now it's "we're keeping Orton and searching the couch cushions for enough change to sign Willis McGahee."

It's just frustrating.

This. Perhaps I have been subconsciously looking for an excuse to avoid calling repeatedly and fighting with DirecTV to get the NFL Ticket for a reasonable price--but this FA period seems to have tipped me in the direction of skipping it this year. Think I may very well be OK with missing a few games outright this season.

Its going to take many years to fix the pathetic team McD created but this offseason stings anyway.

[Lonestar]

Does anyone think they already know what they have at QB who can play and who can't.

You do not always have to see it on the field game day.

If they trust mc coy he has a Good handle on it. John and John just needed to see it for them self in practice.

If they don't trust mc coy then why is he still here. As for having nothing next year. Whether TEbow plays or not we will be in the same spot at QB.

I have no issue with KO getting all of the work. At this point. As I suspect that come opening day he will be a fin or some where else when a QB goes down with a acl or worse in preseason

If anyone had/has aspirations of playoffs this year your dreaming.

It will probably take another draft or two to get the horses we need for that run and for San to get just that much older.

It is KCs and San division as we speak they have the studs that we do not.

I'm as angry as anyone about not getting at least one DT in the draft.

Btw why is everyone so high on Marcus T? He tested the waters in FA and now is slinking back to the broncos kind of sounds like their was no one else interested. if that is the case why should we? We do nit need just another warm body there fir an inflated price.

[Dzone]

soon we will be spending these sundays, the way we always do in the fall... now I have the board and 104.3 talking broncos this morning

[silkamilkamonico]

Bowlen needs to sell the team if he's not gonna spend money. I'm tired of this. We're turning into the Pittsburgh Pirates of the NFL. Denver has been in the bottom 5 of player payroll the last 3 years. We have the cap room. The only explanation is that either Bowlen or Ellis, or both, refuse to spend the money.

I'm sorry, but this is completely absurd logic.

Any Denver fan who has actually been paying attention the last 13 years knows Pat Bowlen has spent more money than 95% of the other NFL teams, and all it has netted him is 1 playoff win.

Perhaps he doesn't want to continue to overspend on free agency that gets him nowhere year after year except among the NFL owners in spending dead money that is disbursed to players not even on the team anymore.

[Dzone]

but... knowing what we know now, that seems like the exact opposite of what we want.
LOL..I got pissed and started getting in to it with him until I saw what he was doing and then I started to see the humor in his posts. After a while I was LMAO...friggin dude is funny as hell..as long as he isnt here all the time...
:pound:

[Lancane]

I'm sorry, but this is completely absurd logic.

Any Denver fan who has actually been paying attention the last 13 years knows Pat Bowlen has spent more money than 95% of the other NFL teams, and all it has netted him is 1 playoff win.

Perhaps he doesn't want to continue to overspend on free agency that gets him nowhere year after year except among the NFL owners in spending dead money that is disbursed to players not even on the team anymore.

It will not make a difference, so Bowlen better get over it, he'll have to spend under the new CBA Silk, plain and simple. And even you have to admit that he hasn't won anything when he's thrift shopping over the years either. ;)

[topscribe]

And where do we stand with Marcus Thomas? Can we at least resign him?

I dearly hope so. Actually, I'm not as disconcerted over not acquiring given DTs
as I am over what the Broncos have let go over the last few years. Most
recently, I thought the failure to retain Bannan, or get him back, was a bad
non-move. Yes, he was part of the line that allowed all that rushing yardage,
but he was playing out of position (DE) in a formation in which he was a bad fit
(3-4).

And then I think back to Berry, Heyward, Pryce . . . they've had some talent in
there. They just haven't kept it.

And now, they're in the belated process of trying to retain Thomas, after
reaching out to one DT after another. I wonder how Thomas feels about that.

Well, Thomas finally began to show some life last year in a formation in which
he also was not a good fit. I hope they can pick him up . . . he's coming back
to his natural 4-3 now, and he is a natural disrupter . . .

-----

[Lancane]

I dearly hope so. Actually, I'm not as disconcerted over not acquiring given DTs
as I am over what the Broncos have let go over the last few years. Most
recently, I thought the failure to retain Bannan, or get him back, was a bad
non-move. Yes, he was part of the line that allowed all that rushing yardage,
but he was playing out of position (DE) in a formation in which he was a bad fit
(3-4).

And then I think back to Berry, Heyward, Pryce . . . they've had some talent in
there. They just haven't kept it.

And now, they're in the belated process of trying to retain Thomas, after
reaching out to one DT after another. I wonder how Thomas feels about that.

Well, Thomas finally began to show some life last year in a formation in which
he also was not a good fit. I hope they can pick him up . . . he's coming back
to his natural 4-3 now, and he is a natural disrupter . . .

-----

It's so bad that the team did not really want to retain McBean, feeling that he wasn't a good fit for the scheme and according to that same source decided on Friday to have him sign his RFA tenure to return.

At least Thomas wants to be here, wants to be a Bronco...but I don't think the team is letting him sign his tenure like McBean, I think they're actually going to give him an extended contract instead.

[horsepig]

Yeah, I've never understood why they refuse to pay players like Berry, Pryce, etc... and then turn around open the vault for waste like Dale Carter and Daryl Gardner.

However, according to several people, none of us know enough about what's going on to make judgements about such moves. I disagree with that stance because even my little dog could make better deciscions than many made at Dove Valley over the last several years.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

It's so bad that the team did not really want to retain McBean, feeling that he wasn't a good fit for the scheme and according to that same source decided on Friday to have him sign his RFA tenure to return.

At least Thomas wants to be here, wants to be a Bronco...but I don't think the team is letting him sign his tenure like McBean, I think they're actually going to give him an extended contract instead.

Under the new rules, I'm pretty sure Thomas is an UFA. He was originally a RFA, but just like Harris is now an UFA.

All of our current RFAs (Prater, Woodyard, and McBean) have signed their tender offers and are already at camp. They just can't practice until the 4th. We have to give Thomas (and Harris if we wanted him back) a brand new deal like any street FAs.

At least that's how I understand it.

[topscribe]

Yeah, I've never understood why they refuse to pay players like Berry, Pryce, etc... and then turn around open the vault for waste like Dale Carter and Daryl Gardner.

However, according to several people, none of us know enough about what's going on to make judgements about such moves. I disagree with that stance because even my little dog could make better deciscions than many made at Dove Valley over the last several years.

Over the years, I have rooted for two teams who have been famous for
squandering talent they already had: Denver Broncos and Chicago Cubs. There
is something wrong with me: I can't force myself to root for the likes of the
Patriots :gag: or somebody like that. Green Bay may be my second favorite
team, but that's just it . . . they're only my second favorite, by far.

So I will just go on rooting for the Broncos and the Cubs. I think it's a disease . . . :tsk:

-----

[horsepig]

10-4, Top. For me it's CSU Rams and Broncos. Used to be Red Sox fan, but now their just like the Damn Yankees, lol.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I have not read previous posts, so don't know if this has already been stated or not, but they were talking about this on the fan a little while ago - i.e. the moves that other teams have made, and then the comment was made that the Broncos do NOT have room under the cap to go after a big name player.

I absolutely do not understand the comments about Bowlen not putting out money, etc. If you do NOT have room under the cap to do so, you can not bring in big name players.

[topscribe]

10-4, Top. For me it's CSU Rams and Broncos. Used to be Red Sox fan, but now their just like the Damn Yankees, lol.

CSU? You're a man after my own heart, Horsey. I do root for UA here in Tucson
because they're in my back yard. But CSU is first. Always was, always will be.
I'm glad it was CU, and not CSU, who joined the PAC-12 because I would have
had to stop rooting for UA.

Oh well . . . :focus: Sorry, everybody . . .

-----

[Lonestar]

I dearly hope so. Actually, I'm not as disconcerted over not acquiring given DTs
as I am over what the Broncos have let go over the last few years. Most
recently, I thought the failure to retain Bannan, or get him back, was a bad
non-move. Yes, he was part of the line that allowed all that rushing yardage,
but he was playing out of position (DE) in a formation in which he was a bad fit
(3-4).

And then I think back to Berry, Heyward, Pryce . . . they've had some talent in
there. They just haven't kept it.

And now, they're in the belated process of trying to retain Thomas, after
reaching out to one DT after another. I wonder how Thomas feels about that.

Well, Thomas finally began to show some life last year in a formation in which
he also was not a good fit. I hope they can pick him up . . . he's coming back
to his natural 4-3 now, and he is a natural disrupter . . .

-----

note that most of the top talent we have allowed to walk in FA has all been on the D side of the LOS..

also note we have blown tons of money bringing in aging rentals that were well past their prime.. all the while keeping the offensive talent

just maybe that was the reason for our demise..

[Lancane]

I have not read previous posts, so don't know if this has already been stated or not, but they were talking about this on the fan a little while ago - i.e. the moves that other teams have made, and then the comment was made that the Broncos do NOT have room under the cap to go after a big name player.

I absolutely do not understand the comments about Bowlen not putting out money, etc. If you do NOT have room under the cap to do so, you can not bring in big name players.

I think that came about Carol because and I believe it was Ted Sundquist who stated recently - 'that Denver was 17 million under the cap' instead of what we've been hearing. And if there is any truth to that and the Broncos are claiming they have no room but to be thrifty when they do have space, then they're being hypocritical. My take on it is that if Bowlen is fiscally hurting that bad then he needs to either go into partnership or sale the team or the league should step in and enforce it, because the cap stipulations of the new CBA is set up to widen the competitiveness of the league and all the teams within it, enforcing they spend 90% of the cap, whether they have it or not.

Others question, as do I why the hell we're keeping Orton when A) he so vastly disliked by the fandom. And B) When cutting him still helps us cap wise, it makes no sense in keeping him. (I know the trade isn't completely dead) but still...

They claimed to have had a plan in place, they've known for weeks that the CBA was getting closer to being a done deal, so why the hell was there no financial plans in this? If you know you're opening the free agency period so desperate for cash flow, then why were they not cutting scrubs from the start? Not just Buckhalter, but Cox and for that matter Orton? Why didn't the front office keep shut about Tebow and Orton and restructure a better deal for Orton in order to more easily unload him and sure up some cap space? Why didn't we start restructuring contracts the minute we were allowed to in order to have that space?

Simply put Carol, there are too many variables...too many questions and none of the answers are making sense and the front office is showing their inexperience right now. - Meaning that we're frustrated with them and it's only getting worse! ;)

[Lonestar]

Yeah, I've never understood why they refuse to pay players like Berry, Pryce, etc... and then turn around open the vault for waste like Dale Carter and Daryl Gardner.

However, according to several people, none of us know enough about what's going on to make judgements about such moves. I disagree with that stance because even my little dog could make better deciscions than many made at Dove Valley over the last several years.

good post that I did not notice when I posted much the same thing..

[silkamilkamonico]

It will not make a difference, so Bowlen better get over it, he'll have to spend under the new CBA Silk, plain and simple. And even you have to admit that he hasn't won anything when he's thrift shopping over the years either. ;)

I would much rather Denver reconstructed contracts to spending limits than just overpay for high priced free agents who have a significantly higher failure rate.

If Denver has excess bundled money that need to get to a salary cap floor, why not reconstruct the contracts of players that Denver wants to keep around and are actually productive like Lloyd, Clady, Dumervil, Bailey, etc. then just go out and give boatloads of money to marginally disappointing players who are higher valued based on some hidden questionable potential?

Spending money in free agency doesn't get anywhere. Organizations with solid front office management, and coaching, do. And we have yet to show we have a front office and coaching staff that is competent enough to go out and spend significant money in free agency.

IMHO let's solidify the foundation of the organization before we go out and spend on a flashy "finishing" product.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Twice, on the fan, they ran what Mark Schlereth had previously said - "the Broncos are cap strapped, and can not make any big moves".

Here ya go - Cecil Lammey & Mark Schlereth on 7-29.

One of Mark's comments:


MS: I am of the opinion that the Broncos are an 8-8, 9-7 football team which begets 8-8, 9-7 football teams. They are mired in the muck of mediocrity. And it's because of the bad contracts, it's because of the aging nature of their veteran core, and it's because they are strapped salary cap wise.

http://www.footballguys.com/05lammey_schlereth.php

I am assuming, but I would think that ESPN knows where each team stands in regards to the salary cap.

[silkamilkamonico]

Yeah, I've never understood why they refuse to pay players like Berry, Pryce, etc... and then turn around open the vault for waste like Dale Carter and Daryl Gardner.

Great post, hence, why we are where we are today with this silly organization.

[silkamilkamonico]

Twice, on the fan, they ran what Mark Schlereth had previously said - "the Broncos are cap strapped, and can not make any big moves".

Here ya go - Cecil Lammey & Mark Schlereth on 7-29.

One of Mark's comments:



http://www.footballguys.com/05lammey_schlereth.php

I am assuming, but I would think that ESPN knows where each team stands in regards to the salary cap.

I have seen reports here that state Denver is right around a couple million of the salary cap right now. I don't understand why some people here think we have the cap room to just go out and spend like crazy in free agency.

[Lonestar]

I think that came about Carol because and I believe it was Ted Sundquist who stated recently - 'that Denver was 17 million under the cap' instead of what we've been hearing. And if there is any truth to that and the Broncos are claiming they have no room but to be thrifty when they do have space, then they're being hypocritical. My take on it is that if Bowlen is fiscally hurting that bad then he needs to either go into partnership or sale the team or the league should step in and enforce it, because the cap stipulations of the new CBA is set up to widen the competitiveness of the league and all the teams within it, enforcing they spend 90% of the cap, whether they have it or not.

Others question, as do I why the hell we're keeping Orton when A) he so vastly disliked by the fandom. And B) When cutting him still helps us cap wise, it makes no sense in keeping him. (I know the trade isn't completely dead) but still...

They claimed to have had a plan in place, they've known for weeks that the CBA was getting closer to being a done deal, so why the hell was there no financial plans in this? If you know you're opening the free agency period so desperate for cash flow, then why were they not cutting scrubs from the start? Not just Buckhalter, but Cox and for that matter Orton? Why didn't the front office keep shut about Tebow and Orton and restructure a better deal for Orton in order to more easily unload him and sure up some cap space? Why didn't we start restructuring contracts the minute we were allowed to in order to have that space?

Simply put Carol, there are too many variables...too many questions and none of the answers are making sense and the front office is showing their inexperience right now. - Meaning that we're frustrated with them and it's only getting worse! ;)

I understand your frustration..

I have been feeling the same way since about 2004. or so..

Pat has blown a ton of money in the past on total wastes, we all know who they were.

Not only aging FAs but also on draft day.

As business owner myself I see the need to spend wisely.. trowing good money after bad is a good way to go bankrupt.

They said they had a plan and they would be active in FA and they would address RB, DT and IIRC LB..

Not once did they say they were going to sign big name players or that they would do it in the first couple of days..

Have the rookies made mistakes perhaps, but they are my donkeys and I'll root for them no matter what.

Personally I'd rather build via the draft as the cost structure is way better and more long term..

Sure we need a FA or three each year to fill spots that the draft could not fix or that we are so weak at them. DT comes to mind at the top of my list but then it has been since forever for me..

I firmly believe that you win and lose at the LOS and we have been losing that battle for going on a decade..

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I have seen reports here that state Denver is right around a couple million of the salary cap right now. I don't understand why some people here think we have the cap room to just go out and spend like crazy in free agency.

It was also stated on the fan earlier today that the Broncos were hoping to free up money by trading Orton. It was further stated that Miami could not fit Orton under their salary cap, and Orton would not restructure his contract with Miami.

[Lonestar]

Twice, on the fan, they ran what Mark Schlereth had previously said - "the Broncos are cap strapped, and can not make any big moves".

Here ya go - Cecil Lammey & Mark Schlereth on 7-29.

One of Mark's comments:



http://www.footballguys.com/05lammey_schlereth.php

I am assuming, but I would think that ESPN knows where each team stands in regards to the salary cap.
maybe I missed something but most of that interview seemed to be based 6 years ago..

[Lancane]

It was also stated on the fan earlier today that the Broncos were hoping to free up money by trading Orton. It was further stated that Miami could not fit Orton under their salary cap, and Orton would not restructure his contract with Miami.

Then why not cut his ass and be done with it? It may only give us about 3.5 to 4 million in cap space but that right there is the ability to sign a player or two?

[Lonestar]

It was also stated on the fan earlier today that the Broncos were hoping to free up money by trading Orton. It was further stated that Miami could not fit Orton under their salary cap, and Orton would not restructure his contract with Miami.

but then again his 9 mil was not going to allow DEN to add 4-5 top names either..

[silkamilkamonico]

They why not cut his ass and be done with it? It may only give us about 3.5 to 4 million in cap space but that right there is the ability to sign a player or two?

Do you think the coaching staff sees him as our QB?

I don't buy this notion that they are going with Tebow. Young QB's who need to develop but are playing now, do not practice with the scout team when they need reps major work with the first stringers more than any other young developing player in arguably sports.

"Tebow is our QB. Let's put him with the scout team so he can get let down by dropped balls and wrong routes by players we are going to cut, which will most likely bring his confidence down a little with some degree."

It's a simply absurd idea IMHO.

[topscribe]

It was also stated on the fan earlier today that the Broncos were hoping to free up money by trading Orton. It was further stated that Miami could not fit Orton under their salary cap, and Orton would not restructure his contract with Miami.

The Broncos released Hill, which reportedly released $5.5 million, and it has just
been announced that Dawkins has restructured his contract. So I would think
that would bring a little relief . . .

-----

[topscribe]

Do you think the coaching staff sees him as our QB?

I don't buy this notion that they are going with Tebow. Young QB's who need to develop but are playing now, do not practice with the scout team when they need reps major work with the first stringers more than any other young developing player in arguably sports.

"Tebow is our QB. Let's put him with the scout team so he can get let down by dropped balls and wrong routes by players we are going to cut, which will most likely bring his confidence down a little with some degree."

It's a simply absurd idea IMHO.

People who want a player cut that badly aren't thinking about salary cap. They
are just reacting out of pure hate, IMO . . .

Those who have attended camp and reported objectively have noted that
Orton is "by far" the best QB in camp. Why, then, would they cut the best QB? :confused:

-----

[Lancane]

Do you think the coaching staff sees him as our QB?

I don't buy this notion that they are going with Tebow. Young QB's who need to develop but are playing now, do not practice with the scout team when they need reps major work with the first stringers more than any other young developing player in arguably sports.

"Tebow is our QB. Let's put him with the scout team so he can get let down by dropped balls and wrong routes by players we are going to cut, which will most likely bring his confidence down a little with some degree."

It's a simply absurd idea IMHO.

Honestly?

I've kept my quiet about it because of Tebowmania, but no...I don't think Tebow is the quarterback (now or future) of the Broncos. I said I wouldn't be surprised if McDumbass drafted him near the end of the first round, people disagreed with me Silk, as you well know. But I was right, it made too much sense for him to take the top rated developmental quarterback in the draft, not only to buy himself time with the fans and with ownership, but to also prove his worth to the league that indeed Cassel's development was no fluke. He played his best poker-hand and was found wanting.

In truth, I was thinking that Denver was going to trade Orton, start Tebow and then hope his performance was enough to trade him come the end of the season, or that Quinn would show up like heatstroke and win the job outright. No, I know Orton is the better prepared quarterback that Denver has, I know he has the better mechanics of them all right now as well, even though he's still lacking...which says something about our quarterbacks entirely too much for me to really be comfortable. No, I'm already sold that come April of next year that Denver will be drafting a quarterback in round one.

But I don't like Orton, I don't believe he is that good of a quarterback, serviceable and truthfully I would rather see what Tebow or Quinn have in the tank then spending my money to watch Orton flounder or play hard in order to get a contract so he can be a scrub once more...he's more cancerous then Terrell Owens IMHO he only hides his flaws so much better.

[Northman]

Honestly?

I've kept my quite about it because of Tebowmania, but no...I don't think Tebow is the quarterback (now or future) of the Broncos. I said I wouldn't be surprised if McDumbass drafted him near the end of the first round, people disagreed with me Silk, as you well know. But I was right, it made too much sense for him to take the top rated developmental quarterback in the draft, not only to buy himself time with the fans and with ownership, but to also prove his worth to the league that indeed Cassel's development was no fluke. He played his best poker-hand and was found wanting.

In truth, I was thinking that Denver was going to trade Orton, start Tebow and then hope his performance was enough to trade him come the end of the season, or that Quinn would show up like heatstroke and win the job outright. No, I know Orton is the better prepared quarterback that Denver has, I know he has the better mechanics of them all right now as well, even though he's still lacking...which says something about our quarterbacks entirely too much for me to really be comfortable. No, I'm already sold that come April of next year that Denver will be drafting a quarterback in round one.

But I don't like Orton, I don't believe he is that good of a quarterback, serviceable and truthfully I would rather see what Tebow or Quinn have in the tank then spending my money to watch Orton flounder or play hard in order to get a contract so he can be a scrub once more...he's more cancerous then Terrell Owens IMHO he only hides his flaws so much better.

Pretty much my feelings except its not quite clear yet whether Tebow can be a FQB. Just not enough there yet to determine that.

[Lancane]

Pretty much my feelings except its not quite clear yet whether Tebow can be a FQB. Just not enough there yet to determine that.

I think he has the leadership ability and personality the front office wants, he also has an alright arm, one that was perfect for McDumbasses dink'n'dunk system. But Fox reminds me a lot of Dan Reeves in his play-calling, run-run-pass and he likes those who can spread the field, Tebow is too mobile in my opinion and lacks the arm that I think Fox and Elway covet, plus we know that his accuracy is very questionable to boot.

Last year everyone was going on and on about his development and how he was progressing, he worked out more this off-season with the team then Orton and still he's so questionable that there is talk that Quinn will surpass him on the depth chart? In my honest opinion I believe Tebowmania in Denver will soon be dying not because there is hate for the kid like there is for Orton, on the contrary I believe it will because people will realize he just not that good of a pro quarterback prospect.

[NorCalBronco7]

he's more cancerous then Terrell Owens IMHO he only hides his flaws so much better.

:lol:

My God thats funny. Whatever makes you sleep at night, Lacane.

[Northman]

I think he has the leadership ability and personality the front office wants, he also has an alright arm, one that was perfect for McDumbasses dink'n'dunk system. But Fox reminds me a lot of Dan Reeves in his play-calling, run-run-pass and he likes those who can spread the field, Tebow is too mobile in my opinion and lacks the arm that I think Fox and Elway covet, plus we know that his accuracy is very questionable to boot.

Last year everyone was going on and on about his development and how he was progressing, he worked out more this off-season with the team then Orton and still he's so questionable that there is talk that Quinn will surpass him on the depth chart? In my honest opinion I believe Tebowmania in Denver will soon be dying not because there is hate for the kid like there is for Orton, on the contrary I believe it will because people will realize he just not that good of a pro quarterback prospect.

I dont buy much stock into practice, i really dont. Time and time again we heard how great Orton was in practice and then he laid an egg come gametime. And vice versa with those who sucked in practice or preseason only to be much better come gametime. While i have questions regarding Tebow's ability to determine when to pass first and run second or how to handle himself around goalline situations i just cant claim him to be a failure after 3 games. Especially when his numbers are the same if not better than guys like Bradford and Stafford in their first 3 games. This is why i want to see Tebow play this year, all year. So we can get a clear indication of what he is capable of and how much he can learn.

[topscribe]

I dont buy much stock into practice, i really dont. Time and time again we heard how great Orton was in practice and then he laid an egg come gametime. And vice versa with those who sucked in practice or preseason only to be much better come gametime. While i have questions regarding Tebow's ability to determine when to pass first and run second or how to handle himself around goalline situations i just cant claim him to be a failure after 3 games. Especially when his numbers are the same if not better than guys like Bradford and Stafford in their first 3 games. This is why i want to see Tebow play this year, all year. So we can get a clear indication of what he is capable of and how much he can learn.

Look, I don't want to find myself in [yet] another debate. But I don't know how
you figure Orton "laid an egg" in games. Yes, he needs to improve his production
on 3rd downs (and that might happen now with a better running game and some
pass-catching TEs), but laid an egg? mmmkay, if averaging 306 yards/game,
with 20 TDs vs. 6 INTs, and a 96.0 QBR (before his rib injuries) constitutes
laying an egg. Shoot, I'll eat that for breakfast anyday . . .

-----

[chazoe60]

Jacksonville=egg
Jets=egg
KC=egg
AZ=egg
Indy=egg
OAK=pterodactyl egg
SF=egg
SD=egg
STL=egg

[dogfish]

face it, chaze. . . orton's still here-- top won, you lost. . . .


;)

[chazoe60]

face it, chaze. . . orton's still here-- top won, you lost. . . .


;)

No, Bronconation lost.

:sad:

[Lancane]

:lol:

My God thats funny. Whatever makes you sleep at night, Lacane.

As I've said before opinions vary, we're all allowed the opinions we so choose.

[Northman]

Look, I don't want to find myself in [yet] another debate. But I don't know how
you figure Orton "laid an egg" in games. Yes, he needs to improve his production
on 3rd downs (and that might happen now with a better running game and some
pass-catching TEs), but laid an egg? mmmkay, if averaging 306 yards/game,
with 20 TDs vs. 6 INTs, and a 96.0 QBR (before his rib injuries) constitutes
laying an egg. Shoot, I'll eat that for breakfast anyday . . .

-----

Dont want to find yourself in another debate then quit answering my posts when you know i dont agree with your assessment of Orton. Pretty simple concept there if you ask me. We've been over this time and time again, and we dont agree so quit whining. My overall point in this case was you can never take too much into what a player does in practice whether its Orton or whoever. Ive seen guys who are very good QB's suck in practice and vice versa but play well on gameday. I dont take much stock in what is done in practice.

[Lancane]

I dont buy much stock into practice, i really dont. Time and time again we heard how great Orton was in practice and then he laid an egg come gametime. And vice versa with those who sucked in practice or preseason only to be much better come gametime. While i have questions regarding Tebow's ability to determine when to pass first and run second or how to handle himself around goalline situations i just cant claim him to be a failure after 3 games. Especially when his numbers are the same if not better than guys like Bradford and Stafford in their first 3 games. This is why i want to see Tebow play this year, all year. So we can get a clear indication of what he is capable of and how much he can learn.

But I do place stock in practice, yes...I know that it can be deceiving (point and case: Orton) but, it's like watching a kid lace em' up against tires, if he can not even hit the hole when his ass is not being chased, then how in the hell is he going to put the ball where he needs to when he's got people rushing him? It's not like the Broncos were being weighed down in their 7 on 7 drills either? Even rookies should look better in unpadded practices, it's not till they get going in full pads and full speed that we should see major separation.

[BroncoStud]

People who want a player cut that badly aren't thinking about salary cap. They
are just reacting out of pure hate, IMO . . .

Those who have attended camp and reported objectively have noted that
Orton is "by far" the best QB in camp. Why, then, would they cut the best QB? :confused:

-----

Because he doesn't help Denver win games and he is walking away via free agency NEXT year leaving Denver with their thumbs up their asses when it comes to QB evaluation of Quinn and Tebow.

Keeping Orton makes ZERO sense unless we are waiting for a QB to get injured then trade him. Hold onto him during camp and Preseason and hope someone gets hurt, if not cut his ass.

[Northman]

But I do place stock in practice, yes...I know that it can be deceiving (point and case: Orton) but, it's like watching a kid lace em' up against tires, if he can not even hit the hole when his ass is not being chased, then how in the hell is he going to put the ball where he needs to when he's got people rushing him? It's not like the Broncos were being weighed down in their 7 on 7 drills either? Even rookies should look better in unpadded practices, it's not till they get going in full pads and full speed that we should see major separation.

But we are talking about ONE practice. I havent read anything to imply that he has sucked in every practice. Lets not forget that he is only in his second year, and going into a whole different offensive scheme. For Orton, this is his what?.. 7th or 8th year now? Im sure he is a lot more used to NFL practices than Tim is at this point. I will be more concerned if he doesnt improve the rest of training camp which i dont see happening. If it does than Fox and company will go with whoever they think is right to play. I just dont like the indecision, at least Pete Carroll knows who is his starting QB in Seattle.

[BroncoStud]

If Orton did NOT look better than Quinn or Tebow in practice, he should retire this very second. I fully expect him to look better than both in this system and at this point in their careers.

But with the game on the line I will take Tebow 10 out 10 times, all day long. I say that with 100% confidence after watching only 3 starts by Tim Tebow and 5 years of Kyle Orton.

[Juriga72]

I was worried when Fox came in and named Ortons starter back in March... IMHO he painted himself into a corner. IF he was trying to get as much for Orton as possible by naming him starter, and that fell apart becuase Orton wouldn't agree with any contract talks...

As a "Vet's coach"... IF he goes and changes it right now after 1-2 weeks... He'l lose our vets. And by god do we have vets... really really old ones.

[Canmore]

Because he doesn't help Denver win games and he is walking away via free agency NEXT year leaving Denver with their thumbs up their asses when it comes to QB evaluation of Quinn and Tebow.

Keeping Orton makes ZERO sense unless we are waiting for a QB to get injured then trade him. Hold onto him during camp and Preseason and hope someone gets hurt, if not cut his ass.

In the mean time, Kyle is taking snaps away from Tebow and Quinn. It's not a good situation unless you are really going to start Orton. :defense:

[Lancane]

But we are talking about ONE practice. I havent read anything to imply that he has sucked in every practice. Lets not forget that he is only in his second year, and going into a whole different offensive scheme. For Orton, this is his what?.. 7th or 8th year now? Im sure he is a lot more used to NFL practices than Tim is at this point. I will be more concerned if he doesnt improve the rest of training camp which i dont see happening. If it does than Fox and company will go with whoever they think is right to play. I just dont like the indecision, at least Pete Carroll knows who is his starting QB in Seattle.

Now you're giving the coaching staff too much credit...McCoy came here from an offensive system that in part was a lot like the spread, the Run 'n' Gun that Dan Reeves incorporated partially in Denver was the forefather system of the spread offense, McCoy learned under McDaniels as well, he was a passing coordinator the year before. Chances are rather high that we'll see a shitload of spread and run & shoot plays this season.

I understand you want to have some faith in the kid, see what he can do...if there is a chance he can defy the odds. But if you seriously go through the pre-season games of last year and those he played in at the end of the year, then add in what we're hearing from analysts and reporters watching the camp, well it's not that promising. I would love to be wrong, and I could be...I've been wrong before, remember Kenny Irons? But I've been right as well, like I was about Cutler and Mendenhall. I just don't see the up-side, the ceiling for him to become elite let alone to be good enough to be labeled franchise-esque.

[topscribe]

face it, chaze. . . orton's still here-- top won, you lost. . . .

;)

Only if Orton turns out the best QB they have (which he is, presently). I don't
necessarily want Orton starting: I want the best chance to win starting. And
a whole lot of people who make football their living have stated that he is the
best chance . . .



Dont want to find yourself in another debate then quit answering my posts when you know i dont agree with your assessment of Orton. Pretty simple concept there if you ask me. We've been over this time and time again, and we dont agree so quit whining. My overall point in this case was you can never take too much into what a player does in practice whether its Orton or whoever. Ive seen guys who are very good QB's suck in practice and vice versa but play well on gameday. I dont take much stock in what is done in practice.

I didn't feel I had a choice with your "laid an egg" remark. When I see a remark
that is nothing short of absurd, I just get that urge, you know?

Regarding your "whining" remark, pull down your dress: Your hypocrisy is showing . . .


P.S. You really do become offended easily, don't you?

-----



In the mean time, Kyle is taking snaps away from Tebow and Quinn. It's not a good situation unless you are really going to start Orton. :defense:

Apparently, they really do intend to start Orton, provided he maintains that
significant gap between him and the other QBs, of course. After all, they could
have released him before they owed him that bonus money. Why didn't
they? I'm sure it didn't take them by surprise . . .

-----



If Orton did NOT look better than Quinn or Tebow in practice, he should retire this very second. I fully expect him to look better than both in this system and at this point in their careers.


Thank you for supporting my argument. :beer:

-----

[nevcraw]

what a quagmire.. Our best practise QB does not give us the best chance to win.

[Juriga72]

Our best Practice Qb gives us the best chance to win practice.... Right up untill this years injury will keep him yet agaian from setting NFL records.

OH but for those pesky injuries ( each and every year he's played) Kyle Orton would have 5-6 NFL MVP awards....

[Tned]

Then why not cut his ass and be done with it? It may only give us about 3.5 to 4 million in cap space but that right there is the ability to sign a player or two?

Because the roster bonus plus another $2.9 million in salary were guaranteed. So, yes cutting him would save around $4.5 in cap, but it would have cost them $4.4 million in cash and cap to release him, before or after the roster bonus came due.

So, at this point, keeping him and still holding out for a trade is the best course of action. Even if ultimately they are wiling to release him and eat the $4.4 million, it makes sense to wait until the final roster cuts in case a team needs a QB.

[BroncoStud]

Only if Orton turns out the best QB they have (which he is, presently). I don't
necessarily want Orton starting: I want the best chance to win starting. And
a whole lot of people who make football their living have stated that he is the
best chance . . .




I didn't feel I had a choice with your "laid an egg" remark. When I see a remark
that is nothing short of absurd, I just get that urge, you know?

Regarding your "whining" remark, pull down your dress: Your hypocrisy is showing . . .


P.S. You really do become offended easily, don't you?

-----




Apparently, they really do intend to start Orton, provided he maintains that
significant gap between him and the other QBs, of course. After all, they could
have released him before they owed him that bonus money. Why didn't
they? I'm sure it didn't take them by surprise . . .

-----




Thank you for supporting my argument. :beer:

-----

Practice isn't gametime. Orton looks great with no pressure, he's the poor man's Kerry Collins, who without a pass rush would be a Hall of Famer. The problem is that Orton will be asked to extend plays, convert 3rd downs, fit balls into tight spots in the redzone, evade pass rush... Etc, etc...

We all know Orton with ANY pressure is a far cry from a GOOD QB. In the meantime, while you rejoice that Orton remains a Bronco Top, the Broncos get to tread water another year with a QB who won't be on the roster next season, who probably wouldn't win any more games for us than Tebow, and the next QB class is strong and we will likely be drafting somewhat high.

So while 1% of the fanbase may accept that Orton is still here as a good thing, I look at it as holding this franchise back in almost every way. Like I said, there is ZERO doubt in my mind that Orton will fall apart and lose his job, he will then tank his own free agency pursuit and any chance Denver has of evaluating their other highly compensated QBs...

McDaniels created this mess when he traded for Cutler and got Orton as a side salad, now he's gone and the Broncos fans, the ones who pay the bills at Invesco get to stick around and suffer through it. It's clear that Orton thinks he deserves to be compensated like Kolb but the Cardinals said the reason the weren't willing to compensate Orton is because he struggles so much on conversion downs. Orton's opinion of himself is so much higher than the rest of the NFL that it's comical. I understand that he's just trying to make his money but he's holding back our franchise and it sucks.

He walks next year and Denver is back to square 1, totally wasted season of mediocrity yet again.

[Tned]

...

RT @JosinaAnderson Breaking News: DT Marcus Thomas signs with the #Broncos

[keithbishop]

...

They aren't moving him to TE, right? :lol:

Glad to see this. Baby steps.....

[Denver Native (Carol)]

This cannot bode well for either Richard Quinn, the Broncos’ second-round draft pick in 2009 who entered camp as the expected starter as the blocking tight end, or Dan Gronkowski, who entered camp as the starting “receiving” tight end.

rest of article - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/07/31/surprise-broncos-adding-tight-ends-fells-and-rosario/8498/

[Denver Native (Carol)]

VicLombardi

based on the conversation i just had, me likes the broncos chances of signing ty warren.

3 hours ago

http://twitter.com/#!/vicLombardi

[Tned]

http://twitter.com/#!/vicLombardi

Supposedly, they made Warren an offer.

[topscribe]

Practice isn't gametime. Orton looks great with no pressure, he's the poor man's Kerry Collins, who without a pass rush would be a Hall of Famer. The problem is that Orton will be asked to extend plays, convert 3rd downs, fit balls into tight spots in the redzone, evade pass rush... Etc, etc...

We all know Orton with ANY pressure is a far cry from a GOOD QB. In the meantime, while you rejoice that Orton remains a Bronco Top, the Broncos get to tread water another year with a QB who won't be on the roster next season, who probably wouldn't win any more games for us than Tebow, and the next QB class is strong and we will likely be drafting somewhat high.

So while 1% of the fanbase may accept that Orton is still here as a good thing, I look at it as holding this franchise back in almost every way. Like I said, there is ZERO doubt in my mind that Orton will fall apart and lose his job, he will then tank his own free agency pursuit and any chance Denver has of evaluating their other highly compensated QBs...

McDaniels created this mess when he traded for Cutler and got Orton as a side salad, now he's gone and the Broncos fans, the ones who pay the bills at Invesco get to stick around and suffer through it. It's clear that Orton thinks he deserves to be compensated like Kolb but the Cardinals said the reason the weren't willing to compensate Orton is because he struggles so much on conversion downs. Orton's opinion of himself is so much higher than the rest of the NFL that it's comical. I understand that he's just trying to make his money but he's holding back our franchise and it sucks.

He walks next year and Denver is back to square 1, totally wasted season of mediocrity yet again.

Opinion noted . . . once again.

Now, :focus:


Marcus Thomas signed, Ty Warren very possible.

Maybe now we're beginning to see the makings of a DL . . .

-----