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View Full Version : PDF summary NFLPA reviewed with player reps Wednesday prior to owners vote



Tned
07-23-2011, 11:25 AM
http://espn.go.com/photo/preview/!pdfs/espn_summary_nfldeal.pdf


RT @mortreport: Here is 25-page PDF summary pending agreement NFLPA reviewed with player reps Wednesday, pre-owners `final' document: http://es.pn/nNutZK

Slick
07-23-2011, 11:39 AM
...but the owners shoved this deal down their throats.

Tned
07-23-2011, 11:58 AM
...but the owners shoved this deal down their throats.

Listening to some of the player interviews Thursday night and then Friday morning, it sounded like three things:

1. Not all player reps (forget full group of players) were fully aware of details of Smith, Kessler and NFLPA's negotiations and what had been agreed to.

2. Some of the player issues (when screaming via Twitter and interviews) were not related to compensation, but other things like drug testing, personal conduct policy, player appeals of both, etc.

3. NFLPA and players had a problem with the 72 hour window to re-certify and negotiate the items that had to be collectively bargained (see point 2 above).

One of the things I found very funny (in a tragic way) was how Heath Evans and George Wilson reacted in interviews on Thursday, talking about how the owners had "slipped things in," but in both cases when Rich Eisen or other interviewers asked them what had been slipped in, they said they couldn't name specifics, but the owners tried to put things in that weren't agreed upon.

George Wilson (Bills player rep, I believe) also stated that on Wednesday De Smith and company had spent eight hours bringing them (player reps) up to speed on five months of negotiations and that it was a lot to digest and understand in such a short period of time.

It seems a LOT of the player blowback and idiotic statements comes from the face that it's been a fairly small team on the NFLPA side negotiating with the owners, and most of the players and player reps have NO idea what De Smith and his team have agreed to.

Lonestar
07-23-2011, 12:02 PM
...but the owners shoved this deal down their throats.

It was negiotations over the l ast few months that led them to the agreement.
I am kinda surprised to hear this tyoe if comment from you,As a business owner yourself you know what you can afford and what you can't they are doing it on a larger scale than you do.

Tned
07-23-2011, 12:04 PM
It was negiotations over the l ast few months that led them to the agreement.
I am kinda surprised to hear this tyoe if comment from you,As a business owner yourself you know what you can afford and what you can't they are doing it on a larger scale than you do.

I could be wrong, but I think Slick meant that as sarcasm. At least that's the way I took it.

Slick
07-23-2011, 12:10 PM
my bad jr...I was being sarcastic. How could they state that the felt like they were being painted into a corner when they had been negotiating for such a long time? Eventually someone was going vote on something and serve it to the other side...

Lonestar
07-23-2011, 12:10 PM
Sometimes a final offer is just that all they are going to get and the player reps know how far they can push before it becomes counter productive. Which means a strike down the road or IF the owners did not lock them out. Either way some one always loses something when you negioate. this time the players got an overall pay cut when before the owners wound up paying them to much.

The owners got smart and prepared for what happened this time hired a tough labor lawyer and took steps to negate what happened last contract.

Smart tough businessmen. That is What is good for the NFL long term.

Lonestar
07-23-2011, 12:13 PM
my bad jr...I was being sarcastic. How could they state that the felt like they were being painted into a corner when they had been negotiating for such a long time? Eventually someone was going vote on something and serve it to the other side...

Sorry on the mobile site and iPhone I did not see your thoughts as sarcasm.

Thought I knew you better and was almost shocked that you had went weak-kneed.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-23-2011, 12:16 PM
I could be wrong, but I think Slick meant that as sarcasm. At least that's the way I took it.

I agree - IMO, slick's comment was sarcasm, as all we heard after the owners presented their proposal to JERK SMITH, was that no one on the NFLPA side had seen the owner's proposal.

Possibly, the players reps were given the proposal ahead of time, and questioned Smith as to WHY there were certain things in it, which had not been agreed upon.

IMO, I am blaming Smith for the holdup on this

pnbronco
07-23-2011, 12:30 PM
my bad jr...I was being sarcastic. How could they state that the felt like they were being painted into a corner when they had been negotiating for such a long time? Eventually someone was going vote on something and serve it to the other side...

Slick I so agree. I'm sitting here shaking my head going "are you kidding me", then what the heck have you been doing for these last months. Also the thought going in my head is well maybe you should have taken a few more business courses or reading for that matter in college.

As a business owner I have had to work about 50% more to make 25% less over these last couple of years. Last year it was trying to stay in business long enough for things to turn around. It has been better at times this year and I'm so grateful.

It's ironic that I was listening to the news and they were talking about how many NASA engineers were getting laid off and how scared these guys were about finding a new job. So if a "rocket scientist" is worried about his skill set then maybe these players better wake up and really examine there entire skill set.

BroncoTech
07-23-2011, 03:13 PM
I don't blame anyone for holding anything up. I've been through a dozen labor agreements, bought several new vehicles, and purchased a house. But I've never signed off on the first offer on any negotiation. The owners and media sold this like training camp opens Saturday, etc. There's no reasonable expectation this gets done in a couple days. The owners have had 2 years to make this offer, they wait until it's 1 week before the hall of fame game.

I personally have issues with the NFL being antitrust exempt. Try being a fan of a team when you're out of the region. This NFL Season Ticket on Direct TV is from an era before the internet, now people get their TV programming and High speed internet from a single source, and Direct TV isn't it. Garments that used to be made over here... now they're made over there...

Denver Native (Carol)
07-23-2011, 03:34 PM
If I understand correctly, Goodell/Smith, lawyers for both sides, were working side by side, and separately, and if what was being reported was correct, everything in the agreement, except for a few minor things, had been agreed upon before it was given to the players. Many times, either Mortensen, or someone else, would have a recap when negotiations were going on, and were reporting that things were going smoothly - info they were given by inside sources. No one will convince me that this agreement was not a result of the negotiations - i.e. agreed upon by both sides.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-23-2011, 03:56 PM
mortreport Chris Mortensen

John Clayton and I reporting major progress in talks today. Players committee meet Mobday in DC to hopefully recommend approval.
21 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/MORTREPORT

nevcraw
07-23-2011, 04:25 PM
If I understand correctly, Goodell/Smith, lawyers for both sides, were working side by side, and separately, and if what was being reported was correct, everything in the agreement, except for a few minor things, had been agreed upon before it was given to the players. Many times, either Mortensen, or someone else, would have a recap when negotiations were going on, and were reporting that things were going smoothly - info they were given by inside sources. No one will convince me that this agreement was not a result of the negotiations - i.e. agreed upon by both sides.

doesn't mean that considerable time to review the 300 pages of legal documents that were the result of the owners proposal wasn't needed.

Anyone knows there has been posturing on both sides i.e. the weds congratulatory press conference and the subsquent player responses but thast doesn't mean one side is more or less at fault as been opined on this board from the begining.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-23-2011, 04:42 PM
doesn't mean that considerable time to review the 300 pages of legal documents that were the result of the owners proposal wasn't needed.

Anyone knows there has been posturing on both sides i.e. the weds congratulatory press conference and the subsquent player responses but thast doesn't mean one side is more or less at fault as been opined on this board from the begining.

I agree that the players need to review it. My point is that apparently, Smith or someone working for the players, were not either relaying things as they were being negotiated back to the players, more than likely thru the reps, or did not accurately relay things. There is no way the owners would feel they could slip things thru that had not been discussed during the negotiations, and apparently were ok with the people negotiating on behalf of the players at that time.

nevcraw
07-23-2011, 04:59 PM
I agree that the players need to review it. My point is that apparently, Smith or someone working for the players, were not either relaying things as they were being negotiated back to the players, more than likely thru the reps, or did not accurately relay things. There is no way the owners would feel they could slip things thru that had not been discussed during the negotiations, and apparently were ok with the people negotiating on behalf of the players at that time.

these things happen..

you have 32 owners negotiating on there own behalf and on the other side you D smith and lawyer team negotiatinng for 32 players reps who are representing 1900 players. there bound to be friction, misinterpretations etc. along the way to a CBA.

Tned
07-23-2011, 07:20 PM
these things happen..

you have 32 owners negotiating on there own behalf and on the other side you D smith and lawyer team negotiatinng for 32 players reps who are representing 1900 players. there bound to be friction, misinterpretations etc. along the way to a CBA.

It's made more difficult by the fact the vast majority of the 1900, and many of the 32 player reps, are immature, know little about business, and are hot heads quick to spout off on Twitter and interviews.

Lonestar
07-23-2011, 09:13 PM
There is no way the owners would have signed off on an agreement if it had not been vetted by the players reps.

If the players donnot like what was in it then it is time for them to fire the clown.

But whoever takes over is bot going to get much else if not lose stuff.

Once money is lost by the owners then the revenues to the players go down.

That how it is in the real world.

Only so much of the pie to be divided and since the players do not have anything invested other than their bodies and skill. The owners get the final word on How much.

Canmore
07-23-2011, 11:31 PM
Reading that 25 page document sideways did nothing as far as enlightening me on anything that had not been reported before. Still have a pain in my neck. Kind of reminds me of this whole ordeal. :tsk:

BeefStew25
07-23-2011, 11:56 PM
Loner Star, probably best to sit this thread out Corky.

Tned
07-24-2011, 09:05 AM
Reading that 25 page document sideways did nothing as far as enlightening me on anything that had not been reported before. Still have a pain in my neck. Kind of reminds me of this whole ordeal. :tsk:

Hope you were kidding. :lol:

Anyway, if your PDF viewer (assuming Adobe) doesn't have a rotate clockwise button, you can do it with CTRL + Shift + -(minus key) (hold down Ctrl and Shift, and while holding them, press - one time).

nevcraw
07-24-2011, 12:11 PM
It's made more difficult by the fact the vast majority of the 1900, and many of the 32 player reps, are immature, know little about business, and are hot heads quick to spout off on Twitter and interviews.

shocking that young men would be categorized as immature or hot headed..

I could also point out some questionable actions by owners over the years as well. Jerry Jones drunk taped talking shit about Tebow and coaches. The Titans owner flipping off fans to name a couple.

I just don't get this need to take what is a tough business negotioation and in turn create villians out of the players. when it all said and done you all will go back to watching these guys destroy their bodies in the name of sport.
let them negotiate for their best deal -- it's not like the owners are getting theirs.

Gald it's nearly over.

Canmore
07-24-2011, 01:39 PM
Hope you were kidding. :lol:

Anyway, if your PDF viewer (assuming Adobe) doesn't have a rotate clockwise button, you can do it with CTRL + Shift + -(minus key) (hold down Ctrl and Shift, and while holding them, press - one time).

Nope. My new viewer doesn't have the rotate button. Didn't know you could do it with the keyboard. :laugh:

pnbronco
07-24-2011, 03:30 PM
Hope you were kidding. :lol:

Anyway, if your PDF viewer (assuming Adobe) doesn't have a rotate clockwise button, you can do it with CTRL + Shift + -(minus key) (hold down Ctrl and Shift, and while holding them, press - one time).

Thanks I didn't know that either. Actually there is a lot I don't about how to adjust things with the key board.....:confused:

Tned
07-24-2011, 04:12 PM
shocking that young men would be categorized as immature or hot headed..

I could also point out some questionable actions by owners over the years as well. Jerry Jones drunk taped talking shit about Tebow and coaches. The Titans owner flipping off fans to name a couple.

I just don't get this need to take what is a tough business negotioation and in turn create villians out of the players. when it all said and done you all will go back to watching these guys destroy their bodies in the name of sport.
let them negotiate for their best deal -- it's not like the owners are getting theirs.

Gald it's nearly over.

When you have millionaire players claiming to be slaves, they deserve criticism.

I'm not saying owners are perfect or above reproach, but fact is that the owners and their staff are accomplished businessmen, vast majority of players would be working for minimum wage or in prison (our dead) if not for opportunity NFL and big time college football programs provide them. Not all obviously, but many, many of them.

nevcraw
07-24-2011, 04:43 PM
When you have millionaire players claiming to be slaves, they deserve criticism.

I'm not saying owners are perfect or above reproach, but fact is that the owners and their staff are accomplished businessmen, vast majority of players would be working for minimum wage or in prison (our dead) if not for opportunity NFL and big time college football programs provide them. Not all obviously, but many, many of them.

wow.. someone is painting with a pretty wide brush.

the flipside of your racially sprinkled stereotyping is these are some of the best athletes in the world well accomplished in there own right and have to beat out all but the very best to get where they are. It's no fantasy that NFL football players don't live as long as others and go through the equivalent of several head on car wrecks on sunday.
These repected owners have only a 9 billion dollar business on the backs of these would be laborer criminals.

Tned
07-24-2011, 05:02 PM
wow.. someone is painting with a pretty wide brush.

the flipside of your racially sprinkled stereotyping is these are some of the best athletes in the world well accomplished in there own right and have to beat out all but the very best to get where they are. It's no fantasy that NFL football players don't live as long as others and go through the equivalent of several head on car wrecks on sunday. Hulu
These repected owners have only a 9 billion dollar business on the backs of these would be laborer criminals.

Now you are conveniently changing the topic (something I've seen you do a few times lately in discussions).

I didn't say they weren't accomplished athletes, the best of the best, or that they didn't deserve to get paid what they are paid. I said that most are not businessmen, and as a result say some rash and idiotic things, and their rash reactions hinder the completion of the deal.

nevcraw
07-24-2011, 05:15 PM
Now you are conveniently changing the topic (something I've seen you do a few times lately in discussions).
I didn't say they weren't accomplished athletes, the best of the best, or that they didn't deserve to get paid what they are paid. I said that most are not businessmen, and as a result say some rash and idiotic things, and their rash reactions hinder the completion of the deal.

Tned - I would say you are calling the kettle black. I have been consistant in these discussions and have been unwavering in my statements. you have chosen to misconstrue to demean the intent. That's what you do.. But hey -- if you don't like a good phislosophical argument then don't respond to me. I am cool with it either way.
You compared the players behavior to owner's based on stature, I argued that both should be repected in there present state because both are accomplished.

Lonestar
07-24-2011, 05:32 PM
Just have to wonder what goes through an owners mind when he hears or sees one of his players uttering such moronic comments.

Lonestar
07-24-2011, 05:35 PM
Let me add someone that is making at least 45Ok a year for playing 16 games a year.

Tned
07-24-2011, 06:44 PM
Tned - I would say you are calling the kettle black. I have been consistant in these discussions and have been unwavering in my statements. you have chosen to misconstrue to demean the intent. That's what you do.. But hey -- if you don't like a good phislosophical argument then don't respond to me. I am cool with it either way.
You compared the players behavior to owner's based on stature, I argued that both should be repected in there present state because both are accomplished.

Nav, you're disingenuous in your discussing and debating, but each to their own.

nevcraw
07-24-2011, 07:43 PM
Nav, you're disingenuous in your discussing and debating, but each to their own.

now that really hurts.. :lol:
hmmm. not sure how you would know that to be tue... because it's not.