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View Full Version : De Smith says players have to think long and hard about whether they will re-certify union



Tned
07-21-2011, 02:06 PM
This is a big enough news item, that I thought it deserved it's own thread.

De Smith just had a press conference and he talked about how it was four years of discussion among the players about whether or not they would decertify -- it wasn't a simple decision.

Now, he says it is a serious and sobering decision that every player has to consider about whether or not they want to be part of a union -- just like any other employee that considers unionization.

This is a clear power play by the NFLPA to try and put pressure on the owners, since without a union, they won't get certain anti-trust exemptions. De Smith is a MAJOR union guy and would never seriously consider not having a union, other than to use to exert pressure.

Hopefully this ends soon, but De Smith is going to be single handedly responsible for serious damage among the player, owner and fan triangle-relationship.

MileHighCrew
07-21-2011, 02:08 PM
my opinion of him wouldn't fit in the guidelines of the language filter.

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 02:09 PM
This is a big enough news item, that I thought it deserved it's own thread.

De Smith just had a press conference and he talked about how it was four years of discussion among the players about whether or not they would decertify -- it wasn't a simple decision.

Now, he says it is a serious and sobering decision that every player has to consider about whether or not they want to be part of a union -- just like any other employee that considers unionization.

This is a clear power play by the NFLPA to try and put pressure on the owners, since without a union, they won't get certain anti-trust exemptions. De Smith is a MAJOR union guy and would never seriously consider not having a union, other than to use to exert pressure.

Hopefully this ends soon, but De Smith is going to be single handedly responsible for serious damage among the player, owner and fan triangle-relationship.

Owners said that they would not certify the CBA unless players recertified as a union. So if the players pull this crap I could see the courts slamming down on the players.

Tned
07-21-2011, 02:13 PM
Owners said that they would not certify the CBA unless players recertified as a union. So if the players pull this crap I could see the courts slamming down on the players.

They can't certify a CBA, because you can't collectively bargain without a union on the other side. They can't get the anti-trust exemptions without a union and CBA. No union mean no NFL as we know it -- if at all.

Davii
07-21-2011, 02:14 PM
Owners said that they would not certify the CBA unless players recertified as a union. So if the players pull this crap I could see the courts slamming down on the players.

Without a union there is no CBA. There can be no collective bargaining when there is no union to collectively bargain with. A trade association doesn't cut it legally. This is some BS by Smith and I hope the players realize he is going to sink the ship if this is truly his line of thinking.

BigDaddyBronco
07-21-2011, 02:15 PM
Hopefully, long and hard is 2-3 days.

This guy is a tool.

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 02:17 PM
where did you hear this, I could not find it?

Tned
07-21-2011, 02:18 PM
where did you hear this, I could not find it?

I watched the live press conference on NFLN. There is plenty of talk on Twitter, and you will start to see wire articles popping on it shortly.

Lonestar
07-21-2011, 02:18 PM
If they do not vote it back or do so with a slim margin his power is diminsihed As a union thug.

I think he Ia calling this as a vote of confidence regardless of what he said.

LordTrychon
07-21-2011, 02:30 PM
He's being an absolute piece of... go se[/] and merely trying to get potshots in on the owners.

I just got to hear a clipping of his conference on the radio, and his tone made me sick. He's still being combative about things said in court, at the last moments when they're supposed to be finalizing a deal. 'The owners liked to say that our decertification wasn't real... well [i]guess what?"

He's doing this just so that it doesn't look as much like the sham that it was when they decertified. Seeing as how judges on both sides of the fight were in support of continual negotiations, which only work assuming that a union is re-formable... this won't sit well in court, if it to go to that, which it won't.

He's essentially saying that the last two months of progress may be for naught, just to make a point.

If they can't get the 50% needed to certify as a union again, he's doing less than a piss poor job of explaining how this works to those he's supposed to be representing.

Canmore
07-21-2011, 02:34 PM
He's being an absolute piece of... go se[/] and merely trying to get potshots in on the owners.

I just got to hear a clipping of his conference on the radio, and his tone made me sick. He's still being combative about things said in court, at the last moments when they're supposed to be finalizing a deal. 'The owners liked to say that our decertification wasn't real... well [i]guess what?"

He's doing this just so that it doesn't look as much like the sham that it was when they decertified. Seeing as how judges on both sides of the fight were in support of continual negotiations, which only work assuming that a union is re-formable... this won't sit well in court, if it to go to that, which it won't.

He's essentially saying that the last two months of progress may be for naught, just to make a point.

If they can't get the 50% needed to certify as a union again, he's doing less than a piss poor job of explaining how this works to those he's supposed to be representing.

I don't get it. What is Smith getting out of this position. I don't see how this helps him or the players? Is it some sort of power play, but to what end?

Tned
07-21-2011, 02:38 PM
I don't get it. What is Smith getting out of this position. I don't see how this helps him or the players? Is it some sort of power play, but to what end?

Pure powerplay. Basically, it continues their litigation strategy that without a union and anti-trust exemptions the draft, trading players, restricted free agency, franchise tags and such are illegal activities. He's keeping the thread of gutting the NFL as it's now known to keep leverage on the owners. Clearly, there must be some outstanding items that he wants the owners to cave on.

LordTrychon
07-21-2011, 02:39 PM
I don't get it. What is Smith getting out of this position. I don't see how this helps him or the players? Is it some sort of power play, but to what end?

Looking for last minute concessions possibly... just by even delaying like this. The next few weeks are more important to the owners than the players... after that, it flips.

Loss of preseason - hurts owners 10x more than players.
Loss of regular season - hurts both, but players more.

Mostly, I think he's being a vindictive ***** just looking for soundbytes to make the Owners look bad. Even though this is a 10 year CBA that shouldn't be an issue anytime soon.

I hope they fire his ass.

Canmore
07-21-2011, 02:41 PM
Pure powerplay. Basically, it continues their litigation strategy that without a union and anti-trust exemptions the draft, trading players, restricted free agency, franchise tags and such are illegal activities. He's keeping the thread of gutting the NFL as it's now known to keep leverage on the owners. Clearly, there must be some outstanding items that he wants the owners to cave on.

I just don't understand how there can be an agreement that the owners and supposedly players are going to vote on and he wants more, or does this have to do with settling the lawsuits?

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 02:45 PM
Here is the little weazel talking:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d820e4d45/DeMaurice-Smith-says-NFLPA-recertification-is-not-a-certainty?module=HP11_hot_topics

Tned
07-21-2011, 02:47 PM
I just don't understand how there can be an agreement that the owners and supposedly players are going to vote on and he wants more, or does this have to do with settling the lawsuits?

From what's being reported, the issues still outstanding are:


$320 million in lost revenues to players during uncapped year.
Settlement of the 10 player antitrust case -- Brady v. NFL
Whether or not there will be franchise tags and what rules will surround them
Possibly, whether or not there will be restricted free agency (I've seen mixed messages on this)

Davii
07-21-2011, 02:53 PM
I hope they fire his ass.

I hope they certify as a union again and take another vote to immediately drop his ass.

Canmore
07-21-2011, 02:54 PM
From what's being reported, the issues still outstanding are:


$320 million in lost revenues to players during uncapped year.
Settlement of the 10 player antitrust case -- Brady v. NFL
Whether or not there will be franchise tags and what rules will surround them
Possibly, whether or not there will be restricted free agency (I've seen mixed messages on this)


I don't see how the owners and players could be voting on a proposed settlement without at least number three and four addressed. Not so sure about one and two.

Tned
07-21-2011, 02:59 PM
I hope they certify as a union again and take another vote to immediately drop his ass.

I doubt it will happen. I read yesterday the bigger issue. De Smith and Kessler (or whatever the attorney's name is) have been working the players into a frenzy with how much leverage they have and how much better a deal they will get from the last one, how the owners previous offers was worst union deal ever, having player reps talking about the "slavery" of the NFL.

Now, they have to de-froth the players and get them to buy into a deal that probably isn't what Smith has been telling them about, but even with that, I think the players like his scum bag tactics.

Tned
07-21-2011, 03:00 PM
I don't see how the owners and players could be voting on a proposed settlement without at least number three and four addressed. Not so sure about one and two.

As I understand it, they are simply voting on a settlement of the anti-trust lawsuit, and a 'broad outline' of what would be contained in the new CBA.

Canmore
07-21-2011, 03:05 PM
As I understand it, they are simply voting on a settlement of the anti-trust lawsuit, and a 'broad outline' of what would be contained in the new CBA.

A broad outline makes it sound like we are still weeks away from a settlement. I thought they spent the last few weeks nailing down the language.

chazoe60
07-21-2011, 03:05 PM
My guess is that this mush mouthed mongoloid Smith wants to extend $5000 an hour gig. He really is a piece of shit and I hope the players see what a jackass he is and fire his sorry ass after all of this is done.

Tned
07-21-2011, 03:17 PM
A broad outline makes it sound like we are still weeks away from a settlement. I thought they spent the last few weeks nailing down the language.

What I've read over the last 24 hours is that isn't the case.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 03:20 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820e3984/article/blank-optimistic-on-labor-vote-nflpa-recertification-an-issue?module=HP11_cp

This article updated to contain what Smith said, as well as other things/issues

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 03:24 PM
Just when the END was very near, and optimism high, it would be just like SCUMBAG SMITH to put a squeeze on the owners :tsk::mad:

Tned
07-21-2011, 03:40 PM
Just when the END was very near, and optimism high, it would be just like SCUMBAG SMITH to put a squeeze on the owners :tsk::mad:

Normally, I would be appalled at the word scumbag, but in this case it is so accurate, that it doesn't bother me! ;)

GEM
07-21-2011, 03:42 PM
**** you!!!

GEM
07-21-2011, 03:44 PM
My guess is that this mush mouthed mongoloid Smith wants to extend $5000 an hour gig. He really is a piece of shit and I hope the players see what a jackass he is and fire his sorry ass after all of this is done.

I had heard on Mike & Mike that the lawyers were forced into a flat fee contract when this all first started.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 04:00 PM
mortreport Chris Mortensen
If Mankins, Jackson or any other plaintiff want to continue pursuit of antirust litigation, they are free to; just long, expensive process
19 minutes ago
Chris Mortensen

mortreport Chris Mortensen
In nutshell, I do expect players to approve settlement but lockout could be delayed if owners insist on waiting for recertification process
31 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/MORTREPORT

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 04:10 PM
the owners need to turn this around on the players and be like we are doing things right and you are $%^&ing around....and the brady vs nfl suit to get put into owners favor.

Tned
07-21-2011, 04:13 PM
the owners need to turn this around on the players and be like we are doing things right and you are $%^&ing around....and the brady vs nfl suit to get put into owners favor.

Some of the reporters are saying that's what's expected to happen with today's owners vote. Vote for it, and then say, balls in your court, take it or leave it. They said that's what Upshaw did to them with the '06 deal.

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 04:41 PM
And i was starting to get excited for Free Agency....WTF

dogfish
07-21-2011, 04:49 PM
time to give somebody some concrete nikes. . .

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 04:52 PM
time to give somebody some concrete nikes. . .

He wouldnt wear nikes....dress shoes only.....he prob break a sweat going up stairs.

Concrete loafers

Nomad
07-21-2011, 04:54 PM
I guess the players can find out the hard way who signs their gameday checks:coffee: because it surely isn't Smith.

I'd rather the owners not give in and football be delayed rather than give in to Smith and the Players Association.

MOtorboat
07-21-2011, 05:06 PM
I don't understand any of this.

The NFLPA exists, but right now it exists without status as a union, and therefore De Smith is the figurehead of an organization that isn't supposed to be collective bargaining, because it's not a union, but he's the lead negotiator...

It makes no sense to me. And the player reps ought to just cancel a few days of vacation, go back to D.C. and keep him in check. Because, apparently, the minute they leave he goes rogue.

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 05:06 PM
Adam Schefler just twitted that Goodell and Smith have been on the phone for last hour working on lifting lockout if both sides approve deal.

Prob more likely that Goodell is working on getting them to certify.

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 05:10 PM
Anoth Schelfer posted again that facilities could open Friday for players to come talk to issue and sign union cards for recertification.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 05:22 PM
AdamSchefter Adam Schefter
NFL never would put this to vote unless Roger Goodell knew he had the 24 votes he needed. Of course he does. Drama over recertification.
2 hours ago

http://twitter.com/#!/adamschefter

Tned
07-21-2011, 05:26 PM
A couple updates.


RT @alexmarvez: IND owner Jim Irsay just said he believes NFL owners will vote on CBA by 8 pm edt

RT @AlbertBreer: In addition to communication with the NFLPA, the league's labor committee is talking now and working on the resolution to vote.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 05:43 PM
The owners took a break at the NFL owner’s meetings in Atlanta around 5 p.m. ET. At the time, NFL Network said they were told it would be a 10-15 minute break.

It has been 75 minutes and counting thus far, with a lot of very rich men milling about without much to do. (UPDATE: They are now eating dinner on NFL Network. Riveting stuff.)

The reason for the wait? ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that NFLPA* Chief DeMaurice Smith and Roger Goodell are on the horn trying to come up with a way to lift the lockout if both sides approve a deal Thursday night. The owners were scheduled to vote by 5:30 p.m. ET.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/21/goodell-demaurice-smith-on-horn-trying-to-close-deal/

GEM
07-21-2011, 05:46 PM
Get off the horn, sit your asses down and sign on the dotted line....douches.

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 05:52 PM
Get off the horn, sit your asses down and sign on the dotted line....douches.

Well if you have been reading, sounds like owners are trying but Smith is throwing curve balls and last minute moves, like claiming he is not sure if they will recertify as a union.

Tned
07-21-2011, 05:52 PM
NFLN just said Bowlen left the building and is heading to the terminal to fly out. Bowlen is a co-chair of the labor committee, but Bowlen said he wouldn't drop any bombs to the NFLN reporter as he was walking out.

They are speculating that the owners are about to vote yes on the settlement of the anti-trust agreement, which would then serve as the framework for the new CBA.

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 05:56 PM
NFLN just said Bowlen left the building and is heading to the terminal to fly out. Bowlen is a co-chair of the labor committee, but Bowlen said he wouldn't drop any bombs to the NFLN reporter as he was walking out.

They are speculating that the owners are about to vote yes on the settlement of the anti-trust agreement, which would then serve as the framework for the new CBA.

well if they are talking about ending the lock out its more then the framework

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:03 PM
well if they are talking about ending the lock out its more then the framework

lol, no it isn't. What they voted on is a settlement agreement to end the Brady v. NFL anti-trust litigation. Granted, the belief is the settlement agreement includes most, or all, of the main points of debate between the NFL and NFLPA, but the settlment will then serve as a framework for the CBA, which can't be actually negotiated and finalized until there is a union again.

MOtorboat
07-21-2011, 06:04 PM
SalPal just said the owners have ratified the CBA, or do they certify the CBA, I forget. Either way, SalPal said they did their part.

GEM
07-21-2011, 06:05 PM
Well if you have been reading, sounds like owners are trying but Smith is throwing curve balls and last minute moves, like claiming he is not sure if they will recertify as a union.

I have been reading it for months. I am sick of reading they are close. I want to read that it is freaking done.

Almost doesn't mean there will be football.

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:05 PM
SalPal just said the owners have ratified the CBA, or do they certify the CBA, I forget. Either way, SalPal said they did their part.

He reported incorrectly, as it isn't the CBA that was ratified. Some of these reporters barely know what they are talking about.

Also, Goodell to speak to press in about 5 minutes.

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:06 PM
I have been reading it for months. I am sick of reading they are close. I want to read that it is freaking done.

Almost doesn't mean there will be football.

Almost only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and home pregnancy tests...

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 06:08 PM
He reported incorrectly, as it isn't the CBA that was ratified. Some of these reporters barely know what they are talking about.

Also, Goodell to speak to press in about 5 minutes.

From everything I have read it is the CBA and the players have to recertify to be able to ratify it. That is why there is talk of having FA start tomorrow and what not. I dont know where you are getting your information but it is drastically different then every report I have read. I was reading about the framework weeks ago.

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:09 PM
P.S. Oakland abstained from the vote, the other 31 teams voted yes.

Also, Jason Lacon____ said that he does not expect the NFLPA player reps to vote yes on the owners settlement tonight. He doesn't believe that what the owners have agreed to meets what the players want to settle the lawsuits.

Also, also, did anyone see the De Smith interview that just happened on ESPN? I didn't switch over to it in time.

GEM
07-21-2011, 06:09 PM
From everything I have read it is the CBA and the players have to recertify to be able to ratify it. That is why there is talk of having FA start tomorrow and what not. I dont know where you are getting your information but it is drastically different then every report I have read. I was reading about the framework weeks ago.

A union can't agree to a CBA if there is no union. In order to become a union, they need to drop the antitrust lawsuit. There is an order to things. First order of business is clear out the obstacle of the antitrust lawsuit, certify the union and then ratify the CBA.

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:12 PM
From everything I have read it is the CBA and the players have to recertify to be able to ratify it. That is why there is talk of having FA start tomorrow and what not. I dont know where you are getting your information but it is drastically different then every report I have read. I was reading about the framework weeks ago.

How about NFLN, and every major NFL journalist on Twitter that are covering it live right now? What about you?

They cannot vote on a CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) when they don't have a union to negotiate with. Their are many things like the drug policy and others that they cannot even begin to negotiate until the union recertifies.

What they are trying to have both sides agree to is a settlement of the lawsuits, which would then serve as a framework for the CBA (think term sheet or LOI -- letter of intent -- regarding the CBA).

Please explain how you can vote on a CBA before settling the lawsuits and having a union to collectively bargain with?

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 06:13 PM
A union can't agree to a CBA if there is no union. In order to become a union, they need to drop the antitrust lawsuit. There is an order to things. First order of business is clear out the obstacle of the antitrust lawsuit, certify the union and then ratify the CBA.


I know that.....stated it over and over......Now that owners approved it goes to the players who have to recertify as a union and then can get the CBA finalized


"Players then would begin the process of acquiring enough player signatures to begin the recertification process, which would allow the 10-year agreement to formally become a collective bargaining agreement. Under that scenario, the league would open facilities so the players could use them to discuss the matter and get signed union cards as early as Friday."

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 06:14 PM
Sources tell NFL Network's Albert Breer that the vote passed; players have a conference call at 8 p.m. ET Thursday.

http://www.nfl.com/

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 06:17 PM
TNED and GEM read what I was typing geez.....I stated that the players would have to be in a union again before they can do this. All the owners did was approve the CBA proposal (not the framework the actualy CBA)and settlement of lawsuits. Now the players have to become a UNION again before they can accept it. Which is why they will have players signing cards to vote on becoming a union again and then can approve the CBA. Its is just framework then they still have shit to figure out. Framework is the idea not to final words the the lawyers were hashing out last week.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 06:17 PM
NFL owners voted to approve the proposed labor agreement with the NFL Players Association on Thursday, putting the potential end of the league's lockout in the hands of the players, who might vote on the proposed deal Thursday night.

According to sources, the NFL owners voted 31-0 to accept the proposed 10-year collective bargaining agreement, with the Raiders abstaining. Sources told ESPN.com's John Clayton that the owners have notified the players they would accept this deal contingent on all union matters being resolved next week, and the union being reconstituted.

The likely start of training camps is estimated to be Aug. 1, sources said. This does put the Hall of Fame Game in jeopardy.

rest of article:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6791408/lockout-nfl-owners-approve-proposed-labor-agreement

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:20 PM
I know that.....stated it over and over......Now that owners approved it goes to the players who have to recertify as a union and then can get the CBA finalized


"Players then would begin the process of acquiring enough player signatures to begin the recertification process, which would allow the 10-year agreement to formally become a collective bargaining agreement. Under that scenario, the league would open facilities so the players could use them to discuss the matter and get signed union cards as early as Friday."

We are probably arguing semantics at this point. As the settlement terms will form the basis of the key points of the CBA, and will be backfilled with LOTS of specific details.

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:23 PM
TNED and GEM read what I was typing geez.....I stated that the players would have to be in a union again before they can do this. All the owners did was approve the CBA proposal (not the framework the actualy CBA)and settlement of lawsuits. Now the players have to become a UNION again before they can accept it. Which is why they will have players signing cards to vote on becoming a union again and then can approve the CBA. Its is just framework then they still have shit to figure out. Framework is the idea not to final words the the lawyers were hashing out last week.

As I said in my last post, we are probably mostly going past each other on semantics. However, you are incorrect in that the owners just approved the CBA, because it's not possible as you can't right it until everything is agreed and they were still negotiating today. There are even a number of items that still have to be negotiated (based on all reports out there).

WARHORSE
07-21-2011, 06:31 PM
All I know is, Smith better seal the deal because if he doesnt, and this goes into the courts, he may have to move out of the country.

Hed be the most hated man in the league.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 06:38 PM
this article was updated at 5:30 - not sure what is new:


NFL owners voted on Thursday evening to ratify a proposal to end the lockout, the first step in ending the longest work stoppage in NFL history.

The final vote was 31-0 with Oakland Raiders abstaining, according to a source inside the room. The focus will next shift to the players, who will also have to ratify the proposal.

NFL.com senior writer Steve Wyche reported that a football operations meeting will start Friday at 8 a.m. ET, according to a league source.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820e3984/article/owners-vote-to-end-lockout-focus-shifts-to-nflpa?module=HP11_breaking_news

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:44 PM
Fwiw:


rt @si_jimtrotter: For clarification, the owners didn't ratify a settlement agreement that was ok'd by the players. They ratified their own proposal. ...

NightTerror218
07-21-2011, 06:44 PM
Someone just stated on Twitter that Smith is telling player leaders this is a good deal.....posted on by Mile High Report

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:50 PM
Someone just stated on Twitter that Smith is telling player leaders this is a good deal.....posted on by Mile High Report

Let's hope so, because Don Banks, Jim Trotter, Mortensen and others are posting that many player reps are not happy. Feel like they are being bullyied into a one sided deal.

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:50 PM
Like this:


RT @SI_JimTrotter: there were outstanding issues that had yet to be resolved, and the players are not going to ratify the proposal w/o those being addressed.

chazoe60
07-21-2011, 06:58 PM
I think I could make a fine living selling Targets and dartboards with De-More-Ass Smiths stupid fumble lipped face on them.

Tned
07-21-2011, 06:59 PM
Someone just stated on Twitter that Smith is telling player leaders this is a good deal.....posted on by Mile High Report

In regard to that, and whether it's a "CBA" they voted on:

De Smith email to player reps:


RT @SI_JimTrotter: i've received a copy of an email that demaurice smith has sent to the player reps. it reads as follows: ...

RT @SI_JimTrotter: 1) "As you know the Owners have ratifified their proposal to settle our differences. It is my understanding they are forwarding it to us.

RT @SI_JimTrotter: 2) As u may have heard, they apparently approved a supplemental revenue sharing proposal. Obly, we hv not bn a part of those discussions.

RT @SI_JimTrotter: 3) As you know from yesterday, issues that need to be collectively bargained remain open. ...

RT @SI_JimTrotter: 4) other issues such as workers compensation, economic issues and end of deal terms remain unresolved.

RT @SI_JimTrotter: 5) There is no agreement between the NFL and the Players at this time. I look forward to our call tonight.

Kind of a wet blanket thrown on fan enthusiasm.

Tned
07-21-2011, 07:03 PM
Wet blanket part 2:


Here’s the key two sections section as we see it:

“[The settlement] gives the players only three days–Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday of next week–to try to bargain any changes to the old CBA. Any such changes would have to be agreed to by the owners in order to be incorporated into the Agreement, which would then become final on Saturday, July 30. If the NFL does not agree to the players’ proposed changes, the old CBA terms on benefits, discipline, safety, etc. will remain unchanged for another ten years,” the email reads.

It gets worse.

“In addition to depriving the players of the time needed to consider forming a union and making needed changes to the old Agreement, this proposed procedure would in my view also violate federal labor laws. Those laws prohibit employers from coercing their employees into forming a union, and could result in any Agreement reached through the procedure being declared null and void,” the email finishes.

Read the rest here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/21/email-to-nflpa-reps-questions-nfl-procedure-to-end-lockout/

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 07:05 PM
AdamSchefter
In email to player reps, NFL demanding that NFLPA re-form as a union and provide evidence by Tuesday, July 26.
39 minutes ago

Adam Schefter
Roger Goodell confirmed that the HOF game cancelled.
45 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/adamschefter

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 07:16 PM
This is Breaking News on NFL:


NFL owners ratify proposal to end lockout

The vote passed 31-0, with the Raiders abstaining; facilities would open Saturday, free agency would start Wednesday. More ...

http://www.nfl.com/

Tned
07-21-2011, 07:20 PM
Some more:


RT @DonBanks: Can't buy that NFL voted on this thinking the players would be good with it. They're not caught unaware of problems players still have.

RT @DonBanks: Not to judge the validity of those issues, but I think the NFL voted knowing it would put the pressure on the players. Plain and simple.

RT @DonBanks: Whether or not that approach works remains to be seen. But to think it's a short hop to a new CBA is probably wildly optimistic right now.

RT @DonBanks: Good to see that both sides have built up so much trust in one another these past 4-plus months. Is it March, or July?

Tned
07-21-2011, 07:29 PM
And more:


RT @PostBroncos: RT @Jay_Glazer: I'm hearing players will NOT vote bc they haven't seen what owners have done w changes players made to the owners' proposal.

nevcraw
07-21-2011, 07:35 PM
we will see if the owners pressure play backfires. maybe those who have been trying to lay blame on the feet of one side or the other will start to view this as what is.. a tough as nails business negotiation.

Tned
07-21-2011, 08:34 PM
TNED and GEM read what I was typing geez.....I stated that the players would have to be in a union again before they can do this. All the owners did was approve the CBA proposal (not the framework the actualy CBA)and settlement of lawsuits. Now the players have to become a UNION again before they can accept it. Which is why they will have players signing cards to vote on becoming a union again and then can approve the CBA. Its is just framework then they still have shit to figure out. Framework is the idea not to final words the the lawyers were hashing out last week.

Hope you can see now that what the owners voted on was not a CBA, but the terms of a settlement. As De Smith said, there are multiple items that still have to be negotiated for the CBA (ignoring the part that they can't collectively bargain until there is a union).

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 08:44 PM
Not sure if this has been answered or not, but what would be the benefit to the players if they did not want a union anymore - i.e. why would they not want a union?

Tned
07-21-2011, 09:06 PM
Not sure if this has been answered or not, but what would be the benefit to the players if they did not want a union anymore - i.e. why would they not want a union?

No draft. Every college player would be an unrestricted free agent. No trades. No franchise tags. No salary caps. A number of other things. No suspensions for drug use. Basically the NFL as we know it doesn't exist.

MOtorboat
07-21-2011, 09:09 PM
Just my opinion, but it seems De Smith has duped both the players and the owners in the last 48 hours.

Donald Fehr 2.0, but he's actually a detriment to the game. Fehr was just a figurehead, Smith sounds like a glory hound.

Tned
07-21-2011, 09:16 PM
Saints heath Evans claims that owners tried to sneak things in to the CBA with this agreement. Rich Eisen asked for specific details and he said he couldn't give any, but they tried to slip things in. WTH? :confused:

MOtorboat
07-21-2011, 09:21 PM
Saints heath Evans claims that owners tried to sneak things in to the CBA with this agreement. Rich Eisen asked for specific details and he said he couldn't give any, but they tried to slip things in. WTH? :confused:

Probably things De Smith promised that weren't reality. Dude is a snake.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 09:24 PM
Saints heath Evans claims that owners tried to sneak things in to the CBA with this agreement. Rich Eisen asked for specific details and he said he couldn't give any, but they tried to slip things in. WTH? :confused:

It was stated on ESPN that the players could not vote on this tonight, as they have not seen the agreement - so, how would any player know that the owners tried to sneak things into the CBA?????:confused:

MOtorboat
07-21-2011, 09:32 PM
Pete Prisco, and this just one comment: What I can't figure out is how the players have no idea what was going on? Isn't that the job of the union chief? Trade association chief?

MOtorboat
07-21-2011, 09:35 PM
More from Prisco: If the owners think there was a handshake deal and union backed out, word it it might not have been the first time that happened.

De Smith needs to buy a clue.

dogfish
07-21-2011, 09:37 PM
somebody really needs to put these piece'o'shit lawyers out of our misery. . .

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 09:53 PM
Someone is REALLY messed up - the owners are NOT stupid enough to think that the players would sign a blank check - therefore, who's job was it to keep the players up to date on everything, so that they would be able to make a quick decision - i.e. YES OR NO ???????

Davii
07-21-2011, 09:58 PM
Someone is REALLY messed up - the owners are NOT stupid enough to think that the players would sign a blank check - therefore, who's job was it to keep the players up to date on everything, so that they would be able to make a quick decision - i.e. YES OR NO ???????

It is the union, or trade association, head Mr. Smith. The quickest way to become the most hatred man in America is to **** with our football.

Tned
07-21-2011, 09:58 PM
Someone is REALLY messed up - the owners are NOT stupid enough to think that the players would sign a blank check - therefore, who's job was it to keep the players up to date on everything, so that they would be able to make a quick decision - i.e. YES OR NO ???????

These players getting on the air aren't helping their cause. George Wilson (player rep for Bills) was just on NFLN and then ESPN.

George lashed out at the NFL for being bullies, pushing down their throat, changing deal, etc. Then, he says in the 8 hour meeting yesterday, De Smith shared 5 months worth of negotiating and that's hard to digest in one day.

So, on the one hand they are accusing the owners and league of dirty dealing, but on the other hand freely admit they don't know what's been taking place in the negotiations, except for the update they had yesterday, which players had trouble digesting.

Sounds like in the NFLPA camp the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing, and as mentioned, De Smith is little less than an honest guy. Remember the OP of this thread, which was started because De Smith tried to upstage the owners vote and put pressure on them by saying it wasn't a foregone conclusion that the players would reform the union.

MOtorboat
07-21-2011, 10:02 PM
More proof that De Smith is about making himself the story.

What a shame he will cost the NFL billions of dollars. Not to mention how many people will feel animosity towards the players because of how disingenious he is.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 10:04 PM
It is the union, or trade association, head Mr. Smith. The quickest way to become the most hatred man in America is to **** with our football.

So, it was Smith - but what were each of the team's player reps doing while they were there???? Would you NOT think that if Smith was not telling them anything/everything, they would demand to know what is going on - OR, was he lying to them all of the time?

Smith's comments on ESPN just now - they were NOT a part of some of the things in the agreement????? Would NOT the lawyers for the players READ the agreement BEFORE the players voted on it?

Right now - NOTHING IS MAKING SENSE

MOtorboat
07-21-2011, 10:04 PM
This really hurts, but maybe Al Davis knew what he was doing by abstaining...

Davii
07-21-2011, 10:07 PM
Right now - NOTHING IS MAKING SENSE

agreed.

BeefStew25
07-21-2011, 10:10 PM
JgRp-CZ1UDc

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 10:11 PM
This really hurts, but maybe Al Davis knew what he was doing by abstaining...


Raiders CEO Amy Trask on abstaining from vote: "We had profound philosophical differences of a football and an economic nature."

http://twitter.com/#!/AlbertBreer/status/94198369051869184

Tned
07-21-2011, 10:11 PM
Also, Schlereth and others talk about how the Owners will lose $200 million per lost preseason game, but the players only $700 a piece. I'm not sure I agree. If the deal is for 47% of league revenue, it seems to me the players collectively will lose $94 million for each lost preseason game.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 10:16 PM
Also, Schlereth and others talk about how the Owners will lose $200 million per lost preseason game, but the players only $700 a piece. I'm not sure I agree. If the deal is for 47% of league revenue, it seems to me the players collectively will lose $94 million for each lost preseason game.

Adam Schefter talked about this on ESPN, and he said both the owners and players would lose much money for each preseason game lost.

MOtorboat
07-21-2011, 10:18 PM
Also, Schlereth and others talk about how the Owners will lose $200 million per lost preseason game, but the players only $700 a piece. I'm not sure I agree. If the deal is for 47% of league revenue, it seems to me the players collectively will lose $94 million for each lost preseason game.

Players receive 16 game checks and that's it outside of bonuses. They don't earn preseason money, or if they do, it is in very small amounts. Essentially free money for the owners.

Benetto
07-21-2011, 10:22 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/AlbertBreer/status/94198369051869184 (http://twitter.com/#%21/AlbertBreer/status/94198369051869184)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qj-ICgPK9Nc/TTZ-0XZUrYI/AAAAAAAAAbE/4Cy9ICNrbJ0/s640/scary+hideous+al+davis+hue+jackson.jpg

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 10:24 PM
mortreport Chris Mortensen

League official claims De Smith and leaders have had the documents.... this is strongly refuted by NFLPA
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/MORTREPORT

BeefStew25
07-21-2011, 10:25 PM
http://www.peliculas.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/gary_oldman.jpg

Tned
07-21-2011, 10:26 PM
Players receive 16 game checks and that's it outside of bonuses. They don't earn preseason money, or if they do, it is in very small amounts. Essentially free money for the owners.

That's the simplistic view that Schelereth stated, but it isn't really the case. The very essence of this negotiation is that the players will receiver 47% of ALL NFL revenue, not just regular season revenue. So, the revenue from those pre-season games is part of the 47% that the owners will be required to pay to the players in the form of their game checks.

The salary cap will be based on 47% of revenue, and the owners will have to pay between 95 and 99% of the salary cap every year. While any given year they may not pay out 47%, over the life of the CBA contract, the total paid to players must average 47%.

So, if the owners lose $800 million by missing 4 preseason games, the players (this year, or over the course of the CBA) will lose 47% of that, or just under $400 million, or $94 million a preseason game missed.

BeefStew25
07-21-2011, 10:30 PM
Million instead of billion?

Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2011, 10:32 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820e6174/article/why-nflpa-recertification-is-crucial-to-new-labor-deal?module=HP11_cp

Tned
07-21-2011, 10:37 PM
Million instead of billion?

Yea, our national debt has so desensitized me to billions and trillions, it just slipped out.

BeefStew25
07-21-2011, 10:45 PM
I was going to say, lets have the NFL bail out our country.

nevcraw
07-21-2011, 10:58 PM
lol at the drama queening... got to have a boogeyman to feel safe.. 300 pages of legal documents.. god forbid it takes a while to sift through and understand.

BeefStew25
07-21-2011, 11:55 PM
Guys, be postive. For those of us with season tickets, we can achive two goals here:

1) Will get a refund on shitty preseason games
2) Can still look down our noses at you less than human organisms.

Lonestar
07-22-2011, 02:03 AM
Players receive 16 game checks and that's it outside of bonuses. They don't earn preseason money, or if they do, it is in very small amounts. Essentially free money for the owners.

I think what he was saying is NOW the Players get IIRC 47% of all the revenue therefore preseason would be part of that money where it was not in the past..

Tned
07-22-2011, 06:41 AM
Guys, be postive. For those of us with season tickets, we can achive two goals here:

1) Will get a refund on shitty preseason games
2) Can still look down our noses at you less than human organisms.

Yea, I must admit that a refund on preseason game(s) did cross my mind. :)

Dzone
07-22-2011, 09:25 AM
NFL Potheads had better be warned that drug testing will be starting again. Time to stop hitting that bong!:laugh::laugh:

Denver Native (Carol)
07-22-2011, 10:01 AM
mortreport Chris Mortensen
Players want lockout lifted if/after they vote yes, then sign player union cards at team facility, collected by reps and regional directors
11 hours ago

Chris Mortensen
mortreport Chris Mortensen
Good news. Players wrapped call, then leadership received final details. Vote can come tomorrow if they can satisfy a finishing detail or 2.
11 hours ago

http://twitter.com/#!/MORTREPORT

Tned
07-22-2011, 10:04 AM
I get the strong feeling that the majority of player reps, and obviously the regular players, are uninformed about the actual negotiations that have taken place.

I'm curious if anyone has seen tweets or comments from Foxworth and Jeff Saturday who were supposed to be much more involved through the whole process.

Tned
07-22-2011, 10:07 AM
Doesn't look like we will hear anything today:


RT @AlbertBreer: NFLPA statement: "Player leadership is discussing the most recent written proposal with the NFL, which includes a settlement agreement deal terms and the right process for addressing recertification. There will not be any further NFLPA statements today out of respect for the Kraft family while they mourn the loss of Myra Kraft."

RT @AlbertBreer: That statement was attributed to NFLPA president Kevin Mawae.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-22-2011, 10:12 AM
Doesn't look like we will here anything today:


On Thursday night, ESPN’s lockout coverage had a big banner in the upper left corner of my television screen.

“PLAYERS TO VOTE FRIDAY,” it said.

Later in the night, we noticed it was changed to:

“PLAYERS EXPECTED TO VOTE FRIDAY.”

Now ESPN’s Chris Mortensen is backing off that timeline. Speaking on SportsCenter Friday, Mort reported it was “unlikely” the players would vote on a new CBA on Friday. That decision is in part because of a difficult timeline.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/espn-backs-off-friday-vote-prediction/

Denver Native (Carol)
07-22-2011, 10:20 AM
ATLANTA -- In the hours following NFL owners' 31-0 vote to ratify a settlement proposal that would end the four-month-old lockout, NFL Players Association general counsel Richard Berthelsen sent an email to player representatives Thursday night detailing the issues with the potential deal.

NFL Network obtained a copy of the email, which took issue with the league setting a rough timetable for the NFLPA to reform as a union.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820e6ed4/article/nflpa-shows-displeasure-with-league-in-email-to-player-reps

Freyaka
07-22-2011, 10:39 AM
Doesn't look like we will hear anything today:

Looks like they are stalling for time and playing it off like they are "showing the kraft family respect...." Show them some respect and end this freaking fiasco!

Denver Native (Carol)
07-22-2011, 10:41 AM
from article:


Sources told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen that players still want owners to budge on two key issues:

• An opt-out clause seven years into the proposed 10-year collective bargaining agreement,

• and they want owners to allow them to report to team facilities and vote in person on re-forming as a union.

full article and video - http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6793054/nfl-lockout-nflpa-discussing-owners-proposed-deal

Tned
07-22-2011, 10:47 AM
I've seen Tweets about the opt-out as well. I find it HIGHLY ironic that the players trashed the owners for opting out of the current (last) CBA, which was clearly provided for in the CBA. However, now they want the option to opt-out of the new one.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-22-2011, 11:11 AM
I've seen Tweets about the opt-out as well. I find it HIGHLY ironic that the players trashed the owners for opting out of the current (last) CBA, which was clearly provided for in the CBA. However, now they want the option to opt-out of the new one.

Can't remember who said it, but it was said that MANY of the players now, will not be around in 7 years.

Tned
07-22-2011, 11:14 AM
Can't remember who said it, but it was said that MANY of the players now, will not be around in 7 years.

Yes, I've seen that. Plus, they are afraid that things will change over 10 years and what seems like a good deal now, won't be 7 or 8 years from now.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-22-2011, 11:33 AM
topscribe posted this in another thread - great listen

top's post:http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1302192&postcount=36

Rod Smith: If DeMaurice Smith wasn't there, the deal would have been done a long time ago.

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_...c=740&f=121611 - may have to get to what Rod said thru top's post

Denver Native (Carol)
07-22-2011, 11:39 AM
NFL gameday rosters will expand this season from 45 to 46 players, with the No. 3 quarterback no longer counting as an inactive player.

http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter/statuses/94442415993274368

topscribe
07-22-2011, 11:39 AM
topscribe posted this in another thread - great listen

top's post:http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1302192&postcount=36

Rod Smith: If DeMaurice Smith wasn't there, the deal would have been done a long time ago.

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_...c=740&f=121611 - may have to get to what Rod said thru top's post

Here: http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=740&f=121611 :)

-----

Tned
07-22-2011, 11:42 AM
On players claims about agreement:


RT @ClarkJudgeCBS: Pash on owners proposal: "This isn't a take it or leave it deal." Empahasized was "fully negotiated" but said willing to listen to players

Denver Native (Carol)
07-22-2011, 11:52 AM
NFL Players Association lawyers and officials have had time to begin digesting the league's proposal for a new deal, and several concerns remain regarding language contained in it and matters the players believe are unresolved, according to numerous sources with direct knowledge of the situation. Conversations with player reps and NFLPA officials revealed no sense that a vote on ratification was imminent, instead indicating that more time will be necessary to reach an agreement on the deal ratified and proposed by owners Thursday.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820e913b/article/players-need-more-time-to-resolve-issues-with-proposed-deal?module=HP11_cp

NightTerror218
07-22-2011, 12:00 PM
The owners are billionaires....they cant "remove" Smith from the equation?

hamrob
07-23-2011, 11:03 AM
I can't stand the whiney players who are holding this deal up.

Smith has already agreed to terms with the NFL. He has the toughest job out of anybody....he has to get the players to sign off on the deal. This includes getting them to recertify as a Union. So, yes, he is going to have to play a lot of games in order to get them happy enough to vote. The NFL knows this and will work with him.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-23-2011, 03:09 PM
WASHINGTON -- Issues still are standing in the way of NFL labor peace. Placating the named plaintiffs in the Brady antitrust lawsuit no longer is one, for now.

Requests for concessions for numerous players -- including but not limited to San Diego Chargers wide receiver Vincent Jackson and New England Patriots guard Logan Mankins -- remained earlier in the week. But Jackson and Mankins have dropped their demands for $10 million to settle the suit against the league, leaving fewer obstacles to a new collective bargaining agreement that would end the four-month-old NFL lockout.

rest of article - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820ede10/article/concessions-for-brady-lawsuit-plaintiffs-no-issue-in-cba-talks?module=HP11_hot_topics

Tned
07-23-2011, 03:54 PM
...

RT @mortreport John Clayton and I reporting major progress in talks today. Players committee meet Mobday in DC to hopefully recommend approval.

Benetto
07-23-2011, 06:50 PM
The owners are billionaires....they cant "remove" Smith from the equation?

Smith removed himself from the equation (decertified)...And now frog-face holding this whole thing up so he can save his job, claiming the players have to think long and hard about re-certifying the NFLPA.

Reality is, the players are going to miss the HOF game and maybe a few exhibition games...Less chance for injuries...Taking advantage of the situation.

atwater27
07-24-2011, 09:48 AM
somebody really needs to put these piece'o'shit lawyers out of our misery. . .

Lawyers and the judicial system need to be fired, momentarily dismantled and rendered powerless; then rebuilt with checks on power and with a focus on actually following constitution and the rule of law.

atwater27
07-24-2011, 09:51 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qj-ICgPK9Nc/TTZ-0XZUrYI/AAAAAAAAAbE/4Cy9ICNrbJ0/s640/scary+hideous+al+davis+hue+jackson.jpg

Dude, you just gave me nightmares for years.