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Tned
07-17-2011, 07:12 PM
Take it for what it's worth.


NFL Network's Steve Wyche has spoken with "enough people people plugged into the situation" to confidently state that the Broncos' starting quarterback job is Tim Tebow's "to lose."

"Unless [he] gets hurt in training camp or is absolutely awful," adds Wyche. A previous report from colleague Jason LaCanfora suggested the Broncos will "hold firm" to a second-round price tag for Kyle Orton, though Wyche believes they will end up settling for a third-rounder. The Broncos will then look to sign Jake Delhomme as a mentor once he's released by the Browns. NFL.com analyst Bucky Brooks, who worked under coach John Fox for four years in Carolina, is also convinced Tebow will start.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/437s86083/ns/sports-player_news/

Ravage!!!
07-17-2011, 08:17 PM
If this truly is fact... then Orton will most certainly be traded. It would be stupid to keep a player that you can get a 3rd, and possibly a 2nd, round pick and have them be a ONE year back-up.

Davii
07-17-2011, 09:18 PM
If this truly is fact... then Orton will most certainly be traded. It would be stupid to keep a player that you can get a 3rd, and possibly a 2nd, round pick and have them be a ONE year back-up.

If Orton isn't the starter in Denver he will be playing elsewhere. I don't think at this point in his career he would be willing to take the backseat.

Tned
07-17-2011, 09:20 PM
If Orton isn't the starter in Denver he will be playing elsewhere. I don't think at this point in his career he would be willing to take the backseat.

He pretty much proved that with how he reacted to Tebow starting the final three games. If they forced him to a backup role, it's hard to imagine him handling it better than last year, which was very non team-first.

TXBRONC
07-17-2011, 09:23 PM
Wow. Assuming this is true and they can't get what they want for Orton I wonder if they would settle for something less? We don't even know for sure what free agency will look like. I think I heard Friday that it would look something like the old model I wonder how firm that is?

MOtorboat
07-17-2011, 09:24 PM
He pretty much proved that with how he reacted to Tebow starting the final three games. If they forced him to a backup role, it's hard to imagine him handling it better than last year, which was very non team-first.

Made-up drivel by Woody Paige. I'm surprised how much you quote it as gospel.

That said, it is best Denver moves on to Tebow.

Tned
07-17-2011, 09:32 PM
Made-up drivel by Woody Paige. I'm surprised how much you quote it as gospel.

That said, it is best Denver moves on to Tebow.

MO, you have no idea what you are talking about. I am not quoting anything from Woody Paige here, and rarely read the guy --- he irritates the shit out of me even more than some posters on BF.

What I am referring to is the quotes printed by the beat reporters (Jones, Mason, etc.) each time they attempted to talk to Orton after Tebow was given the start. What he did say, what he refused to say.

Now, why don't you back up YOUR drivel and show me all of these places I quoted Woody Paige as gospel. I can think of one that I have used repeatedly, so I just can't wait for you to refresh my memory on "how much [I] quote [Paige] as gospel" in all these other cases.

Come on. Enlighten me.

Canmore
07-17-2011, 09:33 PM
I'm not in favor of giving Orton away whether Tebow starts or not. If we can't get at least a high third for him, preferably a second he stays. This isn't a fire sale on Kyle Orton. He has value.

Ravage!!!
07-17-2011, 09:44 PM
I'm not in favor of giving Orton away whether Tebow starts or not. If we can't get at least a high third for him, preferably a second he stays. This isn't a fire sale on Kyle Orton. He has value.

He should get at min a third. But the only value he has is what we can get for him. Sitting on bench is no value to us.

MOtorboat
07-17-2011, 09:44 PM
Made-up drivel by Woody Paige. I'm surprised how much you quote it as gospel.

That said, it is best Denver moves on to Tebow.

MO, you have no idea what you are talking about. I am not quoting anything from Woody Paige here, and rarely read the guy --- he irritates the shit out of me even more than some posters on BF.

What I am referring to is the quotes printed by the beat reporters (Jones, Mason, etc.) each time they attempted to talk to Orton after Tebow was given the start. What he did say, what he refused to say.

Now, why don't you back up YOUR drivel and show me all of these places I quoted Woody Paige as gospel. I can think of one that I have used repeatedly, so I just can't wait for you to refresh my memory on "how much [I] quote [Paige] as gospel" in all these other cases.

Come on. Enlighten me.

Really? Kyle Orton was upset he lost his job, eh?

No kidding. That doesn't mean he wouldn't help Tebow.

Go ahead and throw out all the quotes you've got and the gossip the reporters spouted on twitter.

Woody Paige embraced this position and ran with it, and yes, that was a connotative deduction on my part. People make inferences all the time. No reason to get so butt hurt and personal about it. I've read his writings. I've watched things at Dove Valley and he seems to be exaggerating, thus I deducted you'd seen the same false pretenses, read his crap and regurgitated. If you haven't, I apologize, but just so you do know, Woody Paige mirrors your opinions, and Woody Paige's columns have been thoroughly debunked.

Canmore
07-17-2011, 09:51 PM
He should get at min a third. But the only value he has is what we can get for him. Sitting on bench is no value to us.

Granted. Kyle has no value sitting on the bench unless Tebow stinks it up much worse than you or I am hoping. Value is in the eye of the beholder, but I feel you draw the line at anything less than a high third. He has more value than that to us no matter how unhappy he may be. Tebow is one of his runs away from sitting for more than one game. Brady Quinn?

BeefStew25
07-17-2011, 09:52 PM
Mo has better sources than Woody. Read all the breaking news here folks!

Tned
07-17-2011, 09:52 PM
Really? Kyle Orton was upset he lost his job, eh?

No kidding. That doesn't mean he wouldn't help Tebow.

Go ahead and throw out all the quotes you've got and the gossip the reporters spouted on twitter.

Woody Paige embraced this position and ran with it, and yes, that was a connotative deduction on my part. People make inferences all the time. No reason to get so butt hurt and personal about it. I've read his writings. I've watched things at Dove Valley and he seems to be exaggerating, thus I deducted you'd seen the same false pretenses, read his crap and regurgitated. If you haven't, I apologize, but just so you do know, Woody Paige mirrors your opinions, and Woody Paige's columns have been thoroughly debunked.

Well, then your power of deduction sucks hind tit, clearly. Next time you should phrase it as such, deduction, and not fact.

You stated: "Made-up drivel by Woody Paige. I'm surprised how much you quote it as gospel."

That is an indictment of fact. So, next time, why don't you just post your opinion/counter opinion, and don't take some wild ass guess about who I might be regurgitating.

As to what Woody's columns sound like, I'll take your word for it. As I said, I can't stand his writing style, so never read his column, other than maybe a quote or two posted here. The ONLY paige column I can ever remember reading in full was the one where he got a RARE interview with Bowlen following the Cutler trade/first draft.

So, I would suggest either working on improving your deduction skills, or lay off the condescending cracks derived from your half-assed deductions, and the quality of your posts will immediately improve.

Tned
07-17-2011, 09:53 PM
Mo has better sources than Woody. Read all the breaking news here folks!

Yep, no doubt about it, he broke the famous "McDaniels answered the phone and said no...." scoop...

MOtorboat
07-17-2011, 09:54 PM
Mo has better sources than Woody. Read all the breaking news here folks!

Actually, Tned's sources are clearly much better than mine.

TXBRONC
07-17-2011, 09:55 PM
Really? Kyle Orton was upset he lost his job, eh?

No kidding. That doesn't mean he wouldn't help Tebow.

Go ahead and throw out all the quotes you've got and the gossip the reporters spouted on twitter.

Woody Paige embraced this position and ran with it, and yes, that was a connotative deduction on my part. People make inferences all the time. No reason to get so butt hurt and personal about it. I've read his writings. I've watched things at Dove Valley and he seems to be exaggerating, thus I deducted you'd seen the same false pretenses, read his crap and regurgitated. If you haven't, I apologize, but just so you do know, Woody Paige mirrors your opinions, and Woody Paige's columns have been thoroughly debunked.

No that report about Orton has NEVER been debunked by other reporters.

BeefStew25
07-17-2011, 09:56 PM
Actually, Tned's sources are clearly much better than mine.

Mo I want to jump on your back and ride you like a mule.

MOtorboat
07-17-2011, 09:57 PM
Actually, Tned's sources are clearly much better than mine.

Mo I want to jump on your back and ride you like a mule.

At least give me Shetland Pony, for Elway's sake.

BeefStew25
07-17-2011, 10:20 PM
Guys watch this:

Tebow Rules!

chazoe60
07-17-2011, 10:20 PM
"I don't comment on the play of others"

"I have enough on tape"

"I didn't open the door for anyone"

All quotes from the great team player Kyle Orton when he was benched for Tebow.

Bullgator
07-17-2011, 10:27 PM
No way... this guys crazy. Teblow sucks... Id trade that hack away for herpes... start Orton!!! Go KO! Woooooo!

Bullgator
07-17-2011, 10:32 PM
but seriously... was there ever a doubt? Never.

Tned
07-17-2011, 10:43 PM
but seriously... was there ever a doubt? Never.

Yes, and there still is.

BroncoStud
07-17-2011, 11:39 PM
Made-up drivel by Woody Paige. I'm surprised how much you quote it as gospel.

That said, it is best Denver moves on to Tebow.

Who cares what Woody said, watching him on the sideline was enough for me to realize that he wasn't going to settle on being a backup to Tebow. He acted like he didn't give a damn if Denver won or lost.

Bullgator
07-18-2011, 02:31 AM
Yes, and there still is.

ill rephrase... doubt is objective... there is no way in hell Tebow doesn't start the season. It was always going to be TT. EFX never had a doubt who they were going to start despite what they said. Tebow will not and cannot be denied his shot no matter what.

but in your heart of hearts you always knew he was going to start, Tned.. you and everyone else... maybe some aint happy about it but they knew it was inevitable.

BroncoStud
07-18-2011, 02:37 AM
ill rephrase... doubt is objective... there is no way in hell Tebow doesn't start the season. It was always going to be TT. EFX never had a doubt who they were going to start despite what they said. Tebow will not and cannot be denied his shot no matter what.

but in your heart of hearts you always knew he was going to start, Tned.. you and everyone else... maybe some aint happy about it but they knew it was inevitable.

Time will tell.

Juriga72
07-18-2011, 06:44 AM
I just hope we get something for Kyle. Of course after every NFL GM saw him choke up when the game was on the line last year... it might be a bucket of used footballs.

Tned
07-18-2011, 07:21 AM
ill rephrase... doubt is objective... there is no way in hell Tebow doesn't start the season. It was always going to be TT. EFX never had a doubt who they were going to start despite what they said. Tebow will not and cannot be denied his shot no matter what.

but in your heart of hearts you always knew he was going to start, Tned.. you and everyone else... maybe some aint happy about it but they knew it was inevitable.

There is simply no basis for your statement. In my heart or hearts, as you put it, I have always "hoped" that Tebow would win the starting job. Put another way, even if he wasn't able to win it, I hoped they would start him to give him the experience.

That said, your statement is nothing more than a manifestation of how much you like Tebow. I hope it turns out to be true, but there is no basis for your statement.

SOCALORADO.
07-18-2011, 08:53 AM
If this truly is fact... then Orton will most certainly be traded. It would be stupid to keep a player that you can get a 3rd, and possibly a 2nd, round pick and have them be a ONE year back-up.

Well, if this is true, then its good news.I think most of us saw this coming anyways. But its good news for a couple reasons. Orton will be traded, and DEN could get a 2nd for him, which would be great considering.
Tebow gets his shot, which is good for him, and its good for DEN fans.
For alot of us, we just want this whole experiment with TT to move into the next phase so we can see what we got.
Next years draft is gonna be QB heavy. Some of the best QB prospects in a long time, so its now or never. Glad to see EFX move forward.

TXBRONC
07-18-2011, 10:00 AM
Well, if this is true, then its good news.I think most of us saw this coming anyways. But its good news for a couple reasons. Orton will be traded, and DEN could get a 2nd for him, which would be great considering.
Tebow gets his shot, which is good for him, and its good for DEN fans.
For alot of us, we just want this whole experiment with TT to move into the next phase so we can see what we got.
Next years draft is gonna be QB heavy. Some of the best QB prospects in a long time, so its now or never. Glad to see EFX move forward.

It's still just speculation Socal. I have no problem with Tebow having chance to prove himself but until a trade is actually been made I personally wont make plans as though he's already gone.

tomjonesrocks
07-18-2011, 10:08 AM
Ugh...Delhomme? Does every coach have to bring in their previous team's leftovers?

Delhomme looked worse last season than Brady Quinn did in preseason. A mentor? How about Elway?

TXBRONC
07-18-2011, 11:05 AM
Ugh...Delhomme? Does every coach have to bring in their previous team's leftovers?

Delhomme looked worse last season than Brady Quinn did in preseason. A mentor? How about Elway?

You can have more than one mentor. Besises I think it's important to have , experienced back up if Tebow is indeed the starting quarterback.

Ravage!!!
07-18-2011, 11:14 AM
Elway isn't going to be at the practices, he's not going to be on the sidelines, he's not going to be in the film rooms (at least not all the practices and film rooms). Elway will give advice from time to time, and he'll be able to make a pointer here and there... but he can NOT be on the field and take a QB under his wing.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-18-2011, 11:20 AM
Elway isn't going to be at the practices, he's not going to be on the sidelines, he's not going to be in the film rooms (at least not all the practices and film rooms). Elway will give advice from time to time, and he'll be able to make a pointer here and there... but he can NOT be on the field and take a QB under his wing.

I would think Elway would be at the practices, as they are at Dove Valley, and that is where he is. I also think he will be reviewing film. He could be on the sidelines, but I don't believe he would override the HC or offensive coordinator during a game.

Traveler
07-18-2011, 11:25 AM
Well, if this is true, then its good news.I think most of us saw this coming anyways. But its good news for a couple reasons. Orton will be traded, and DEN could get a 2nd for him, which would be great considering.
Tebow gets his shot, which is good for him, and its good for DEN fans.
For alot of us, we just want this whole experiment with TT to move into the next phase so we can see what we got.
Next years draft is gonna be QB heavy. Some of the best QB prospects in a long time, so its now or never. Glad to see EFX move forward.



Nice take Socal!:salute:

They really don't have a choice IMO. This team is in full rebuild mode. Just doesn't make sense not to see how well Tebow can perform at the NFL level. Starting him helps the team two-fold:

(1). As you said, they get a full year to evaluate him which will help them determine if they must dip into the QB pool next season.

(2). If he is successful, getting him more experience allows the team to focus on others areas since the QB position would be solid for years to come.

Now that the lockout seems to finally be ending, this negates Orton usefulness to the team as a starting QB. If the lockout had dragged into August, that would be the only reason the keep Orton as the starter.

Ravage!!!
07-18-2011, 11:50 AM
I would think Elway would be at the practices, as they are at Dove Valley, and that is where he is. I also think he will be reviewing film. He could be on the sidelines, but I don't believe he would override the HC or offensive coordinator during a game.

Not on a regular basis. Not on a everyday capacity. He won't be on the field in coaches shorts and a whistle helping out the QBs. He's not going to have the time to sit through the film room sessions, and getting together with the QBs to go through their film study with them. He could be on the sidelines, but do you think he's going to be in the "QB huddle" during a time-out or commercial break? Of course not. Thats for players and coaches.

My point is that Elway will be around, but he's not going to be able to "mentor" anyone from a day-to-day basis. He's not going to be able to teach a player his footwork and basic reads. He's not going to be able to sit and spend the time to teach a young QB how to study game film on the opposing defenses that week. He's not going to be on the sidelines and remind the young QB what he should be looking for on the play after the time-out or ask him "what do you see out there" when Tebow walks to the sidelines.

Thats why you get a veteran QB to be on the roster.

Traveler
07-18-2011, 12:01 PM
Thats why you get a veteran QB to be on the roster.

Isn't Brady Quinn a veteran?:D

SOCALORADO.
07-18-2011, 12:12 PM
Not on a regular basis. Not on a everyday capacity. He won't be on the field in coaches shorts and a whistle helping out the QBs. He's not going to have the time to sit through the film room sessions, and getting together with the QBs to go through their film study with them. He could be on the sidelines, but do you think he's going to be in the "QB huddle" during a time-out or commercial break? Of course not. Thats for players and coaches.

My point is that Elway will be around, but he's not going to be able to "mentor" anyone from a day-to-day basis. He's not going to be able to teach a player his footwork and basic reads. He's not going to be able to sit and spend the time to teach a young QB how to study game film on the opposing defenses that week. He's not going to be on the sidelines and remind the young QB what he should be looking for on the play after the time-out or ask him "what do you see out there" when Tebow walks to the sidelines.

Thats why you get a veteran QB to be on the roster.

I wonder if they will trade Orton and Quinn? Ortons gone, we know that, but i just wonder if they would trade Quinn for a 5th or a pick, bring in Delhomme ala Brunell and then get a 3rd string/practice squad scrub cheap?
I have no problem with this.

NightTerror218
07-18-2011, 12:16 PM
I'm not in favor of giving Orton away whether Tebow starts or not. If we can't get at least a high third for him, preferably a second he stays. This isn't a fire sale on Kyle Orton. He has value.

I would rather he go for a 4th then to keep him as a back up. Last year she showed he was not happy on the bench. I see him as a locker room problem as a backup. I think he will just be sitting and fuming.

Ravage!!!
07-18-2011, 12:19 PM
I wonder if they will trade Orton and Quinn? Ortons gone, we know that, but i just wonder if they would trade Quinn for a 5th or a pick, bring in Delhomme ala Brunell and then get a 3rd string/practice squad scrub cheap?
I have no problem with this.

I don't think so. I think we keep Quinn as the back-up, and Delhomme as a one-year rental... a third string guy that might be able to step in over Quinn (might not) and can be around to help with teaching Tebow the ropes (as well as the system).

Not to mention, I don't think there is ANY value for Quinn. Cleveland was basically trying to give the kid away when we took him, and no one offered any trades.

SOCALORADO.
07-18-2011, 12:23 PM
I don't think so. I think we keep Quinn as the back-up, and Delhomme as a one-year rental... a third string guy that might be able to step in over Quinn (might not) and can be around to help with teaching Tebow the ropes (as well as the system).

Not to mention, I don't think there is ANY value for Quinn. Cleveland was basically trying to give the kid away when we took him, and no one offered any trades.

Josh fricken Mcdaniels.......just pure fail.
http://www.n00balert.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Peyton-hillis.jpg

NightTerror218
07-18-2011, 12:29 PM
Josh fricken Mcdaniels.......just pure fail.
http://www.n00balert.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Peyton-hillis.jpg

deja vu

Davii
07-18-2011, 12:54 PM
Watching that Elway show on Saturday night on Nfln brought an interesting quote from Elway, even if it was from 98. Elway said he always felt that being "thrown to the wolves" helped his development, that as long as you have the confidence you'll develop quicker by playing than being on the bench.

Just a thought

LordTrychon
07-18-2011, 12:57 PM
Watching that Elway show on Saturday night on Nfln brought an interesting quote from Elway, even if it was from 98. Elway said he always felt that being "thrown to the wolves" helped his development, that as long as you have the confidence you'll develop quicker by playing than being on the bench.

Just a thought

I'm pretty sure he's repeated the sentiment since then as well.

I'm not sure he's right... but it's all speculation.

It'll be interesting to see this play out. If Elway does think that Tebow can be the future of this team, he may push for him to start sooner than later.

Fox may disagree.

Dunno.

NightTerror218
07-18-2011, 12:59 PM
I'm pretty sure he's repeated the sentiment since then as well.

I'm not sure he's right... but it's all speculation.

It'll be interesting to see this play out. If Elway does think that Tebow can be the future of this team, he may push for him to start sooner than later.

Fox may disagree.

Dunno.


Well running to a running team rather then a throwing team would help develop tebow. Takes pressure off the QB. Just like the Jets.

HammeredOut
07-18-2011, 06:53 PM
Made-up drivel by Woody Paige. I'm surprised how much you quote it as gospel.

That said, it is best Denver moves on to Tebow.

Like I said before, nobody will give denver a 2nd rounder for Orton. We will get a 3rd or 4th round pick for him. So that is why I said earlier we should try and steal the Carson Palmer deal, by giving them Orton, and a pair of 3rd round picks or a 3rd and 4th. We can flip Palmer elsewhere, like AZ.

Ravage!!!
07-18-2011, 09:02 PM
Like I said before, nobody will give denver a 2nd rounder for Orton. We will get a 3rd or 4th round pick for him. So that is why I said earlier we should try and steal the Carson Palmer deal, by giving them Orton, and a pair of 3rd round picks or a 3rd and 4th. We can flip Palmer elsewhere, like AZ.

This still makes no sense!!!!

Canmore
07-18-2011, 09:03 PM
This still makes no sense!!!!

It doesn't get better with time either. :defense:

BeefStew25
07-18-2011, 09:08 PM
My perfect season is starting to take shape:

We trade Orton for a 3rd, Tebow plays the first game, plays decent, then gets busted, and Brady Quinn leads us to a Super Bowl title.

Brakshow
07-18-2011, 09:32 PM
Well I wouldn't pick him up to just trade him away to AZ. Bring him in as a mentor for TT; Palmer doesn't wanna play anyway. If we can get the veteran value out of him it would be worth it....Someone would have to go in that situation though :-\

Btw: Hi Chaz :beer:

LordTrychon
07-18-2011, 09:48 PM
Well I wouldn't pick him up to just trade him away to AZ. Bring him in as a mentor for TT; Palmer doesn't wanna play anyway. If we can get the veteran value out of him it would be worth it....Someone would have to go in that situation though :-\

Btw: Hi Chaz :beer:

He doesn't want to play in Cincy.

If he manages to get out.... he'll want to start, I'm sure.

Brakshow
07-18-2011, 09:59 PM
He doesn't want to play in Cincy.

If he manages to get out.... he'll want to start, I'm sure.

Never know m8; I think he just hates it here so much he'd take a 2nd string roll for a decent sum. He has already publicly stated that he has plenty of money and doesn't need to do it for that anymore [citation needed]. So it might not be totally out of the question.

In my opinion he lost his will to win and be a leader a long time ago...but as a Veteran backup / Mentor position wouldn't be a bad thing for sure.

GEM
07-19-2011, 11:16 AM
Never know m8; I think he just hates it here so much he'd take a 2nd string roll for a decent sum. He has already publicly stated that he has plenty of money and doesn't need to do it for that anymore [citation needed]. So it might not be totally out of the question.

In my opinion he lost his will to win and be a leader a long time ago...but as a Veteran backup / Mentor position wouldn't be a bad thing for sure.

I don't know about will to win....I think it has a lot more to do with that knee injury. He's never been the same since. I think he could help a team but anyone expecting him to live up to his before injury numbers is kidding themselves.