How Xanders survived the Dove Valley housecleaning after McDaniels was let go

[Tned]

It's a good read, check it out


When Pat Bowlen's right-hand man dropped in on Brian Xanders at his Dove Valley office one day last December, the Broncos were in disarray.

Josh McDaniels had been fired as head coach a little more than a week earlier, barely 10 days after revelations of Spygate II. Under interim coach Eric Studesville , the team had been blown out in Arizona the previous Sunday.

"Joe Ellis came down and said, 'Why don't you go meet with John Elway at his house?' " Xanders recounted last week.

The Broncos would not formally name Elway executive vice president of football operations for another three weeks — they still had three games left on the schedule — but he had already accepted the job.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos2009/ci_18493567?source=rss

[TXBRONC]

This was a good read. I never did buy the view somehow Xanders was complicit in McDaniels personnel moves. McDaniels had full control there was nothing he do if McDaniels decided to go in a direction he wasn't comfortable with.

Also he apparently has firm grasp of scouting. Actually I came to that conclusion at the end of draft press conference with way he talked about this year's picks.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I still really don't think he's anything more than our "head scout" in the new regime. More like Elway's top assistant than a true GM. I have a feeling that Elway and Fox are making the decisions and he's the "nod your head in agreement" guy. He just isn't a dominant enough personality, noe does he have the experience to really be that type of "I'm in charge and we're going to do it my way" GM.

Of the three heads in our brain trust, he's the smallest by far. I'm sure he has input and that Fox and Elway listen, but I still have the feeling that he doesn't get to "put his foot down" on decisions. He's Ted Sundquist version 2.0, just with a strong willed, football savvy VP above him instead of just a know it all coach like Shanny or McD.

I watched a little of the Jet's Hard Knocks and it was obvious that when Mike Tennenbaum and Rex Ryan, who is a very strong personality, are talking who is in charge - and it isn't Ryan. Ryan expresses his desires but Tennebaum makes the final call. Xanders doesn't, nor will he probably ever here in Denver.

[Softskull]

"When I got to his house, we sat down at his kitchen table and he started asking questions about the team. For example, he asked me, 'What about the (2010) draft? Take me through the whole draft.

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when he answered that. Personally, I would have fired Xanders for just having knowledge of that draft. If his answer was anything other than "I tried to get a few goons to lock McD in a trunk of a car, but he over powered us" then I'd be showing his butt to the door.

[atwater27]

I saw nothing in there about the Goodmans. Looks like that important part of the equation is being swept under the rug. The more Elway learns about the inner workings of this organization, the more I hope he will realize and be able to communicate to Bowlen that Ellis and Xanders are not the right guys for the Denver Broncos.

[Tned]

I saw nothing in there about the Goodmans. Looks like that important part of the equation is being swept under the rug. The more Elway learns about the inner workings of this organization, the more I hope he will realize and be able to communicate to Bowlen that Ellis and Xanders are not the right guys for the Denver Broncos.

I'm a little surprised that you wouldn't "hope" that Elway figures out whether or not Xanders, and I suppose his "boss" Ellis, can do the job, and conveys THAT to Bowlen.

Just because McDaniels was a egotistical train wreck that was given full control by Bowlen (like EVERY other coach he hired), doesn't mean that Xanders and Ellis aren't very good candidates for their respective jobs.

[BroncoWave]

"When I got to his house, we sat down at his kitchen table and he started asking questions about the team. For example, he asked me, 'What about the (2010) draft? Take me through the whole draft.

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when he answered that. Personally, I would have fired Xanders for just having knowledge of that draft. If his answer was anything other than "I tried to get a few goons to lock McD in a trunk of a car, but he over powered us" then I'd be showing his butt to the door.

Gotta love it when people judge a draft a failure after one season! :rolleyes:

[atwater27]

I'm a little surprised that you wouldn't "hope" that Elway figures out whether or not Xanders, and I suppose his "boss" Ellis, can do the job, and conveys THAT to Bowlen.

Just because McDaniels was a egotistical train wreck that was given full control by Bowlen (like EVERY other coach he hired), doesn't mean that Xanders and Ellis aren't very good candidates for their respective jobs.

I don't think Ellis' (especially) and Xanders' hands are clean when it comes to the poor decisions that left us where we are today. They are passing the buck as good as anybody.

[BroncoWave]

I don't think Ellis' (especially) and Xanders' hands are clean when it comes to the poor decisions that left us where we are today. They are passing the buck as good as anybody.

Exactly. Why not let Elway find out for sure before declaring them incompetent?

[atwater27]

Exactly. Why not let Elway find out for sure before declaring them incompetent?

Good point. too bad John wasn't here 2 seasons ago. Josh could have gotten the axe within a few days.

[BeefStew25]

Sanders also had a notebook of printed emails to and from McDick backing him up that the trades and moves McDick did were gay as aids. That has to be the only reason he is here.

[BroncoJoe]

Good point. too bad John wasn't here 2 seasons ago. Josh could have gotten the axe within a few days.

He probably wouldn't have been hired!

[Tned]

Exactly. Why not let Elway find out for sure before declaring them incompetent?

Exactly my point. If they aren't competent, so be it -- time will tell. For now, we don't know. Especially in Ellis' case. He was only given total control of the football club this offseason.

It's interesting how nobody even considers the possibility that it was Bowlen stepping back and giving more control to Ellis that might have led to the Broncos finally having some separation of powers between coach and GM, something that has never happened while Bowlen has owned the Broncos.

[Softskull]

Gotta love it when people judge a draft a failure after one season! :rolleyes:

I don't know if these young guys are players or not. But McD REPLACED a probowl QB, REPLACED a probowl WR, REPLACED a probowl center while our defense crumbled. I'm not saying that Tebow et al. aren't quality guys. I'm saying that McD created a mess and last year’s draft was the culmination of bad decisions. Xanders was there for the duration. Shouldn't he have said something?

[Tned]

I don't know if these young guys are players or not. But McD REPLACED a probowl QB, REPLACED a probowl WR, REPLACED a probowl center while our defense crumbled. I'm not saying that Tebow et al. aren't quality guys. I'm saying that McD created a mess and last year’s draft was the culmination of bad decisions. Xanders was there for the duration. Shouldn't he have said something?

Said something to who? The press?

This is something I don't understand from you guys. What did you expect Xanders to do? When McDaniels had the same power that Reeves had. The same power that Phillips had. The same power that Shanahan had. What did you expect him to do? Hold a press conference and say, "I wanted to let you know that Mr. Bowlen has not kept his word. Josh McDaniels has been allowed to assume full control of player/personnel moves. I want to be on record saying I don't agree with the moves he's made, so that I am not tarnished by them when he fails or I look for a job with another club. Thank you for coming today, and I will take questions now..."

Is that how you thought it should go down? Talk about never working in the NFL again...

[BroncoStud]

Xanders is either incompetent or a total "YES" man... Either way, he was the GM during the worst 2 years of Denver Broncos roster moves in the history of this organization.

He should have been fired.

[Softskull]

Said something to who? The press?

This is something I don't understand from you guys. What did you expect Xanders to do? When McDaniels had the same power that Reeves had. The same power that Phillips had. The same power that Shanahan had. What did you expect him to do? Hold a press conference and say, "I wanted to let you know that Mr. Bowlen has not kept his word. Josh McDaniels has been allowed to assume full control of player/personnel moves. I want to be on record saying I don't agree with the moves he's made, so that I am not tarnished by them when he fails or I look for a job with another club. Thank you for coming today, and I will take questions now..."

Is that how you thought it should go down? Talk about never working in the NFL again...

Apperently he wasn't working in the NFL even then. The title "GM" must have been written on his shirt in crayon.

[BroncoWave]

Gotta love it when those on the outside act like they have complete knowledge of what's going on on the inside!

[Tned]

Apperently he wasn't working in the NFL even then. The title "GM" must have been written on his shirt in crayon.

Yea, that was cute. haha :sympathyLOL:

How about answering the question?

What should he have said? Who should he have said it to?

This is an assertion that you and others have made, but without explaining what it is you mean. What it is he should have done.

[Tned]

Gotta love it when those on the outside act like they have complete knowledge of what's going on on the inside!

Yea, almost as bad as when people claim they KNOW other peoples beliefs and motives... ;)

[BeefStew25]

Gotta love it when those on the outside act like they have complete knowledge of what's going on on the inside!

Kinda like you and women.

[BroncoJoe]

Kinda like you and women.

:shocked:

[BeefStew25]

It would added credibility to Xanders if McD had fired him.

[Tned]

It would added credibility to Xanders if McD had fired him.

Xanders probably was blackmailing him with evidence of cheating...:listen:

[hamrob]

He probably wouldn't have been hired!McDaniels wasn't a bad hire at the time. It was either him or Spags....and we wanted McD because of our young stud QB (Cutler). I'm not so sure, Elway wouldn't have went with McDaniels as well.

Heck, I thought McDaniels was the best choice at the time. That didn't last long though!

[claymore]

McDaniels wasn't a bad hire at the time. It was either him or Spags....and we wanted McD because of our young stud QB (Cutler). I'm not so sure, Elway wouldn't have went with McDaniels as well.

Heck, I thought McDaniels was the best choice at the time. That didn't last long though!

Yeah, the Nolan/McDaniels combo was my dream hire at the time.

[Tned]

McDaniels wasn't a bad hire at the time. It was either him or Spags....and we wanted McD because of our young stud QB (Cutler). I'm not so sure, Elway wouldn't have went with McDaniels as well.

Heck, I thought McDaniels was the best choice at the time. That didn't last long though!

Ditto on all counts.

[Lonestar]

I'm going to guess that many of the haters are going shallow this hook line and sinker. Just because it follows their train of thought. They want to believe that Josh made all of the decisions I repeat that ALL of the decisions on personnel.

I find that highly doubtful that no one else had any input.

As for him being a dominate GM I think that comes with time in grade.

Rarely is a guy promotes from within that does not earn his stripes and added responsiblies.

[Lonestar]

Gotta love it when people judge a draft a failure after one season! :rolleyes:

Yep where were they the past 15 years. Besides giving it a pass because the guy win two super blows with HOf talent and only one playoff game since.

[Lonestar]

I don't know if these young guys are players or not. But McD REPLACED a probowl QB, REPLACED a probowl WR, REPLACED a probowl center while our defense crumbled. I'm not saying that Tebow et al. aren't quality guys. I'm saying that McD created a mess and last year’s draft was the culmination of bad decisions. Xanders was there for the duration. Shouldn't he have said something?
Let's see jay bailed because he was not privy to selection of Josh.
Bm was traded to Mia because he was disruptive to the club AND wanted to be the highest paid WR in the NFL.
Casey. Yep because he had zero long term future here could not block in the PBS with exsisiting taken next to him.
Just how was that defense in 08.

And what did Josh do to fix it fired 8 of the starters (for The Most part are nit still in the NFL) and started to Move to the 3-4. When it was shown that nolans pick in fields to be the NT was not the answer he brought in aging vets to fill that hole.

So what really happened you do not know nor do I.

Maybe Xman should have went straight to Pat if he knew it was not working.

Would you have?

[Lonestar]

Btw does anyone know that Xman did not go to Eliss or Pat.

[Davii]

Btw does anyone know that Xman did not go to Eliss or Pat.

That's my thought as well. If you feel you're being hamstrung in you job and responsibilities you talk to your boss about it. But to be fair, how do you know he didn't, especially after insisting nobody here knows what went down behind Dove Valleys doors?

[broncobryce]

That's my thought as well. If you feel you're being hamstrung in you job and responsibilities you talk to your boss about it. But to be fair, how do you know he didn't, especially after insisting nobody here knows what went down behind Dove Valleys doors?

Hey just ask em, they know what plays should be called, who to draft and everything else. Just ask em.

[Tned]

That's my thought as well. If you feel you're being hamstrung in you job and responsibilities you talk to your boss about it. But to be fair, how do you know he didn't, especially after insisting nobody here knows what went down behind Dove Valleys doors?

At a certain point all we can do is use common sense and apply some logic to what we know.

If Xanders was in charge and just let McDaniels bully his way into taking over without taking it to Ellis or Bowlen, then it seems very unlikely that they would give him a second chance.

In the same way, if Xanders made all the bad player moves that led to the worst stretch in Broncos history, it seems very unlikely they would give him a second chance.

On the other hand if Mcdaniels was given the full control by Ellis and Bowlen, then they wouldn't hold Xanders responsible and would give him another chance.

It's also worth noting that after the Cutler fiasco and the first draft, Bowlen said that McDaniels had made rookie mistakes. He didn't say Xanders had made rookie mistakes or that both had, just that McDaniels had. That is an implicit indication that Bowlen had put McDaniels ultimately in charge of personnel moves.

[broncohead]

I'm going to guess that many of the haters are going shallow this hook line and sinker. Just because it follows their train of thought. They want to believe that Josh made all of the decisions I repeat that ALL of the decisions on personnel.

I find that highly doubtful that no one else had any input.

As for him being a dominate GM I think that comes with time in grade.

Rarely is a guy promotes from within that does not earn his stripes and added responsiblies.

I wouldn't say no one had any input but I believe it was ultimately up to McD. It was pretty evident when we signed all the NE castoffs.


Let's see jay bailed because he was not privy to selection of Josh.
Bm was traded to Mia because he was disruptive to the club AND wanted to be the highest paid WR in the NFL.
Casey. Yep because he had zero long term future here could not block in the PBS with exsisiting taken next to him.
Just how was that defense in 08.

And what did Josh do to fix it fired 8 of the starters (for The Most part are nit still in the NFL) and started to Move to the 3-4. When it was shown that nolans pick in fields to be the NT was not the answer he brought in aging vets to fill that hole.

So what really happened you do not know nor do I.

Maybe Xman should have went straight to Pat if he knew it was not working.

Would you have?

Cutler did not bail. Players can't trade themselves. Funny how when McD came all of a sudden we end up with these "me first" players. Not just a coincidence if you ask me. How did Nolans D with fields do compared to McDs without? Or maybe it wasn't Fields maybe it was the coach who knows how to run a defense?

[nevcraw]

At a certain point all we can do is use common sense and apply some logic to what we know.

If Xanders was in charge and just let McDaniels bully his way into taking over without taking it to Ellis or Bowlen, then it seems very unlikely that they would give him a second chance.

In the same way, if Xanders made all the bad player moves that led to the worst stretch in Broncos history, it seems very unlikely they would give him a second chance.

On the other hand if Mcdaniels was given the full control by Ellis and Bowlen, then they wouldn't hold Xanders responsible and would give him another chance.

It's also worth noting that after the Cutler fiasco and the first draft, Bowlen said that McDaniels had made rookie mistakes. He didn't say Xanders had made rookie mistakes or that both had, just that McDaniels had. That is an implicit indication that Bowlen had put McDaniels ultimately in charge of personnel moves.

I just don't buy that he was an innocent bystander. No one in the upper offices were.
Not to put words in your mouth but you are saying by giving him a pass on this that not only did Mcdaniels run the coaches, the practises, game plans teaching players etc. he was running the college player scouting, Pro scouting, trades, running the cap, salary negotiations, etc.
That's more jobs than I think is even concevable for one guy.
Someone had to funnel the details of the who, what, where and why's to McD for him to make the final call. that someone was Xanders. Therefore he is complicit in what happened.

[Dean]

Let's see jay bailed because he was not privy to selection of Josh.

. . .or could it be Jay just found out McKid treated people like shit before other players like Champ and before the coaching staff. Possibly he wasn't going to put up with it.


Bm was traded to Mia because he was disruptive to the club AND wanted to be the highest paid WR in the NFL.

He was disruptive but leading up to that I will use your own words "what really happened you do not know nor do I". However, he didn't sign as the highest paid reciever.


Casey. Yep because he had zero long term future here could not block in the PBS with exsisiting taken next to him.

I would think that a person with a good offensive mind could find a use for a TE/H-back/slot that could get open and catch the ball. True coaching ingenuity fits scheme to available talent.


Just how was that defense in 08.

Discounting the first few games of '09, it was about the same as it was in '09 and '10 seasons. It was what McKid should have made a serious attempt to fix. He didn't get it done.


And what did Josh do to fix it fired 8 of the starters (for The Most part are nit still in the NFL) and started to Move to the 3-4. (He also alienated the person who was making it work with the talent on hand)
When it was shown that nolans pick in fields to be the NT was not the answer he brought in aging vets to fill that hole.

. . . rather than using the majority of his high round draft picks on defense. By the way Nose was only one of many weaknesses on those defenses.


So what really happened you do not know nor do I.

Maybe Xman should have went straight to Pat if he knew it was not working.

Would you have?

What in McKid's actions over his two years in Denver leads you to believe that he would take kindly to anyone going over his head?

I have never been without a job and don't think I would like it. Without assurances that there would not be retribution, I would have probably not gone to the people who personally picked Josh to head the Broncos and turned over control to him.

[MOtorboat]

Not to put words in your mouth but you are saying by giving him a pass on this that not only did Mcdaniels run the coaches, the practises, game plans teaching players etc. he was running the college player scouting, Pro scouting, trades, running the cap, salary negotiations, etc.
That's more jobs than I think is even concevable for one guy.
Someone had to funnel the details of the who, what, where and why's to McD for him to make the final call. that someone was Xanders. Therefore he is complicit in what happened.

It makes me wonder if the front office doesn't have a problem with the majority of the personnel moves, and the cheating and bad coaching last season was why McDaniels was fired.

At least, that's how it appears to me, since X was allowed to stay on. Remember, there is a Riley-penned report that Elway was not impressed with Cutler.

[TXBRONC]

I saw nothing in there about the Goodmans. Looks like that important part of the equation is being swept under the rug. The more Elway learns about the inner workings of this organization, the more I hope he will realize and be able to communicate to Bowlen that Ellis and Xanders are not the right guys for the Denver Broncos.

The Goodmans had nothing to do with 2010 draft.

[nevcraw]

It makes me wonder if the front office doesn't have a problem with the majority of the personnel moves, and the cheating and bad coaching last season was why McDaniels was fired.

At least, that's how it appears to me, since X was allowed to stay on. Remember, there is a Riley-penned report that Elway was not impressed with Cutler.

Firing Mcdaniels and hriing Elway were good moves to help make up for these past sins. I do belive that everyone involved belives Xanders was not calling the shots therefore he deserves a pass but I am less forgiving for a guy who from any way I cut was invloved daily in the moves that were being made and a most were bad.
Common sense tells me if he xanders only gave Mcd good options to choose he would have made better decisions. know what I mean?

On Cutler Elway also was quoted recently as saying something like "he was a player you don't give up on".

[Tned]

I just don't buy that he was an innocent bystander. No one in the upper offices were.
Not to put words in your mouth but you are saying by giving him a pass on this that not only did Mcdaniels run the coaches, the practises, game plans teaching players etc. he was running the college player scouting, Pro scouting, trades, running the cap, salary negotiations, etc.
That's more jobs than I think is even concevable for one guy.
Someone had to funnel the details of the who, what, where and why's to McD for him to make the final call. that someone was Xanders. Therefore he is complicit in what happened.

And then Xanders is still here for what reason? He's Bowlen's illegitimate son?

Come on, nobody said he did every job, that's just ridiculous and deflection. What's being discussed is McDaniels having the same full control and final say that Shanahan had. It's worth adding that long before he was fired the beat reporters were saying the power setup was essentially the same as when Shanahan was here.

[MOtorboat]

The Goodmans had nothing to do with 2010 draft.

I don't understand the obsession with the Goodmans. They had one OK draft and one really lousy draft, and since leaving the Broncos have not been employed in the NFL in three years. (I believe)

[TXBRONC]

I just don't buy that he was an innocent bystander. No one in the upper offices were.
Not to put words in your mouth but you are saying by giving him a pass on this that not only did Mcdaniels run the coaches, the practises, game plans teaching players etc. he was running the college player scouting, Pro scouting, trades, running the cap, salary negotiations, etc.
That's more jobs than I think is even concevable for one guy.
Someone had to funnel the details of the who, what, where and why's to McD for him to make the final call. that someone was Xanders. Therefore he is complicit in what happened.

I would think Elway and Ellis would have the inside information if they really thought he had was culpable why would they hang onto him. From the article it sounds like once Elway offically joined the Broncos he has the authority to fire Xanders. To me it makes no sense. In fact it wasn't that long ago that Ellis came out and said they (he and Bowlen) gave to much authority to McDaniels. McDaniels was Xanders immediate supervisor for him to go over his head just because he didn't agree with personnel moves.

[nevcraw]

And then Xanders is still here for what reason? He's Bowlen's illegitimate son?

Come on, nobody said he did every job, that's just ridiculous and deflection. What's being discussed is McDaniels having the same full control and final say that Shanahan had. It's worth adding that long before he was fired the beat reporters were saying the power setup was essentially the same as when Shanahan was here.

it's not rediculous nor deflection. Come on -- atleast try to understand the point before you get all pissy. ;)
If he did every job then he should bare the blame alone. but if he had help in these duties on way to all of the bad decisions the blame needs to be shared with these helpers. especially Xanders.


I do belive that everyone involved belives Xanders was not calling the shots therefore he deserves a pass but I am less forgiving for a guy who from any way I cut was invloved daily in the moves that were being made and a most were bad.
Common sense tells me if he xanders only gave Mcd good options to choose he would have made better decisions. know what I mean?

[TXBRONC]

And then Xanders is still here for what reason? He's Bowlen's illegitimate son?

Come on, nobody said he did every job, that's just ridiculous and deflection. What's being discussed is McDaniels having the same full control and final say that Shanahan had. It's worth adding that long before he was fired the beat reporters were saying the power setup was essentially the same as when Shanahan was here.

Agreed. McDaniels like his predecessors had board powers to run the football operations. Hell Ellis came out several months ago said that McDaniels was handed way to much authority.

[Tned]

it's not rediculous nor deflection. Come on -- atleast try to understand the point before you get all pissy. ;)
If he did every job then he should bare the blame alone. but if he had help in these duties on way to all of the bad decisions the blame needs to be shared with these helpers. especially Xanders.

Please excuse my urine colored post. So once again I ask, why does Xanders still have a job?

The problem with you guys so loyally defending McDaniels, is you can't explain why Xanders wasn't fired along with McDaniels.

[Tned]

Agreed. McDaniels like his predecessors had board powers to run the football operations. Hell Ellis came out several months ago said that McDaniels was handed way to much authority.

And he said that it was the same power that all head coaches under Bowlen had been given.

[nevcraw]

Please excuse my urine colored post. So once again I ask, why does Xanders still have a job?

The problem with you guys so loyally defending McDaniels, is you can't explain why Xanders wasn't fired along with McDaniels.

Loyally defending Mcdaniels?????
where the hell do you get that from anything i have written? I would not defend that slimy little turd.
I am just not defending Xanders who by duty function alone was complicit in the unraveling that Mcdaniels helmed. He does not get a pass from me.
Elway must see some use for him and Ellis has defended him so i am sure he's got some good qualities and maybe deserves a fresh start. we will see how it goes.

[Tned]

Loyally defending Mcdaniels?????
where the hell do you get that from anything i have written? I would not defend that slimy little turd.
I am just not defending Xanders who by duty function alone was complicit in the unraveling that Mcdaniels helmed. He does not get a pass from me.
Elway must see some use for him and Ellis has defended him so i am sure he's got some good qualities and maybe deserves a fresh start. we will see how it goes.

So, if he was reasonable for the train wreck of player moves why would they give him another shot?

Why do you assume Ellis lied about Mcdaniels having full control like previous Bowlen coaches? Why do you assume the beat reporters would lie and say Mcdaniels had full control like Shanahan?

I can't understand the belief in some conspiracy theory where all these people "cover" for Xanders by lying and saying McDaniels had full control when he really didn't?

[TXBRONC]

And he said that it was the same power that all head coaches under Bowlen had been given.

Yes McDaniels' power was no different than that of his predecessors.

[Ravage!!!]

Don't tell Wiz. He'll claim its all a conspiracy against McD.

Okay, he won't. He'll just blame it on Shanahan again (yes, he actually blamed McDaniel's failures on Shanahan).

[nevcraw]

So, if he was reasonable for the train wreck of player moves why would they give him another shot?

Why do you assume Ellis lied about Mcdaniels having full control like previous Bowlen coaches? Why do you assume the beat reporters would lie and say Mcdaniels had full control like Shanahan?

I can't understand the belief in some conspiracy theory where all these people "cover" for Xanders by lying and saying McDaniels had full control when he really didn't?

what r u talking about? stick to the point, please. Just because his job was saved doesn't mean he doesn't bare some responsbility.
i'm hardly calling this a conspiracy theory but it is typical finger pointing during a regime shift. self preservation is hardly a novel concept.
Plsyer scouting, deals etc all came through his office before it landed on McD's desk. sure McD was calling the shots big deal but the info was supplied by Xanders. good bad or indifferent.

[TXBRONC]

Why just single out Xanders? Guys I understand your criticism but there is question why do Ellis and Elway feel differently? Also its clear that McDaniels was Xanders boss and from what I've heard McDaniels had no problem acting unilaterally. McDaniels made personnel moves without at the very least informing Xanders exactly how was he suppose to stop that?

[Tned]

what r u talking about? stick to the point, please. Just because his job was saved doesn't mean he doesn't bare some responsbility.
i'm hardly calling this a conspiracy theory but it is typical finger pointing during a regime shift. self preservation is hardly a novel concept.
Plsyer scouting, deals etc all came through his office before it landed on McD's desk. sure McD was calling the shots big deal but the info was supplied by Xanders. good bad or indifferent.

Ok, so your position is that Xanders tried to trade for Cassel, then when it blew up, got in a pissing match with the "player" and traded him? Xanders got in the pissing match with Marshall and then humiliated him in practice, and then finally traded him? Xanders didn't play Hillis, even when Buck was hurt, and Moreno was so tired he was tripping on the line of scrimmage?

Yea, you're right, McD calling the shots was no big deal...

WTH :confused:

[Lonestar]

I wouldn't say no one had any input but I believe it was ultimately up to McD. It was pretty evident when we signed all the NE castoffs.
Cutler did not bail. Players can't trade themselves. Funny how when McD came all of a sudden we end up with these "me first" players. Not just a coincidence if you ask me. How did Nolans D with fields do compared to McDs without? Or maybe it wasn't Fields maybe it was the coach who knows how to run a defense?
Yet jay asked to be traded the minute Josh was announced because he was not privy to helping make the decision. (ultimate ME player) once he was disgruntled it seems there was No turning back. So let's see keeping a me player that did nit get his way one that is known to be a head case, who is immature. It was time for him to go and for thise that will yell to the heavens he was a probowl qb. Yeah sure. Rivers was clearly and IS a better qb should have had that spot. (see last game that year for proof).

Very few teams win playoff with ME players. TEAMs win super blow rings.

[TXBRONC]

That's utter crap that the second McDaniels was announced as the head coach Cutler asked. Like most things that some people like they will try to rewrite history to suit their own mind set.

[claymore]

That's utter crap that the second McDaniels was announced as the head coach Cutler asked. Like most things that some people like they will try to rewrite history to suit their own mind set.

He doesnt live in a world of facts anymore. He has no Idea what really happened.

[Lonestar]

I don't understand the obsession with the Goodmans. They had one OK draft and one really lousy draft, and since leaving the Broncos have not been employed in the NFL in three years. (I believe)

I'm not all that convinced they even had one good draft. each one of those players save kuper and maybe only because of his OL type mentality are head cases.

Do you want strong personalities as leaders sure but there is also a balancing act. IMO it was the inmates running the asylum in 07-08.

[Tned]

Yet jay asked to be traded the minute Josh was announced because he was not privy to helping make the decision. (ultimate ME player) once he was disgruntled it seems there was No turning back. So let's see keeping a me player that did nit get his way one that is known to be a head case, who is immature. It was time for him to go and for thise that will yell to the heavens he was a probowl qb. Yeah sure. Rivers was clearly and IS a better qb should have had that spot. (see last game that year for proof).

Very few teams win playoff with ME players. TEAMs win super blow rings.

I know you have posted this a number of times lately, but I don't recall ever seeing this. Do you know where this was published/stated?

[TXBRONC]

I know you have posted this a number of times lately, but I don't recall ever seeing this. Do you know where this was published/stated?

I know it has been floated any number of times but I can't recall for sure if there is anything in print.

[Ravage!!!]

Yet jay asked to be traded the minute Josh was announced because he was not privy to helping make the decision. (ultimate ME player) once he was disgruntled it seems there was No turning back. So let's see keeping a me player that did nit get his way one that is known to be a head case, who is immature. It was time for him to go and for thise that will yell to the heavens he was a probowl qb. Yeah sure. Rivers was clearly and IS a better qb should have had that spot. (see last game that year for proof).

Very few teams win playoff with ME players. TEAMs win super blow rings.

Yes... I'm pretty sure this has been debunked over and over again, yet you keep stating it as a fact. Please, show us where you get this information since I've looked and have NEVER found this to be true.

I DO know, that both McD and Xanders stated that Jay never asked for a trade.

Also... since you are going to bring up that ME players don't win and keep wanting to bring up NE as your example..... I find it VERY VERY ironic that Tom Brady injured his knee in his first playoff game (against Pittsburgh) in 2001, in the 2nd quarter. HE had to come OUT of the game because he couldn't continue, and Bledsoe had to win that game for NE. But, Tom was healthy enough to play the following week. So if Tom was healthy enough to play the next week against St. Louis, was he a "ME" player by coming out of the Pittsburgh game due to his knee injury??? :confused:

[NightTerror218]

Yes... I'm pretty sure this has been debunked over and over again, yet you keep stating it as a fact. Please, show us where you get this information since I've looked and have NEVER found this to be true.

I DO know, that both McD and Xanders stated that Jay never asked for a trade.

Also... since you are going to bring up that ME players don't win and keep wanting to bring up NE as your example..... I find it VERY VERY ironic that Tom Brady injured his knee in his first playoff game (against Pittsburgh) in 2001, in the 2nd quarter. HE had to come OUT of the game because he couldn't continue, and Bledsoe had to win that game for NE. But, Tom was healthy enough to play the following week. So if Tom was healthy enough to play the next week against St. Louis, was he a "ME" player by coming out of the Pittsburgh game due to his knee injury??? :confused:


I remember reading about Cutler asking to be traded as soon as McD was hired.

[NightTerror218]

Yes... I'm pretty sure this has been debunked over and over again, yet you keep stating it as a fact. Please, show us where you get this information since I've looked and have NEVER found this to be true.

I DO know, that both McD and Xanders stated that Jay never asked for a trade.

Also... since you are going to bring up that ME players don't win and keep wanting to bring up NE as your example..... I find it VERY VERY ironic that Tom Brady injured his knee in his first playoff game (against Pittsburgh) in 2001, in the 2nd quarter. HE had to come OUT of the game because he couldn't continue, and Bledsoe had to win that game for NE. But, Tom was healthy enough to play the following week. So if Tom was healthy enough to play the next week against St. Louis, was he a "ME" player by coming out of the Pittsburgh game due to his knee injury??? :confused:



here is your link.......took 1 bing search

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11919325

[LordTrychon]

here is your link.......took 1 bing search

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11919325

That link discusses Cutler asking for a trade after meeting with McDaniels several times to try and fix the rift that came from the lies about the trade proposal.

Nothing in there supports the idea that Jay requested a trade when McD was hired.

[Tned]

here is your link.......took 1 bing search

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11919325

Clearly Bing isn't your friend, maybe you should try Dean... Badda Boom...

That article is about how Cutler asked to be traded AFTER McDaniels failed to pull of the Cassel/Cutler three team trade, which is also after he talked to two teams at the combine about possibly trading Cutler to get Cassel.

[NightTerror218]

Clearly Bing isn't your friend, maybe you should try Dean... Badda Boom...

That article is about how Cutler asked to be traded AFTER McDaniels failed to pull of the Cassel/Cutler three team trade, which is also after he talked to two teams at the combine about possibly trading Cutler to get Cassel.


It was in response to Ravage stating that Culter never asked to be traded

which was obvious from that article he did ask to be traded.

[LordTrychon]

It was in response to Ravage stating that Culter never asked to be traded

which was obvious from that article he did ask to be traded.

Ravage was saying that this was false.


Yet jay asked to be traded the minute Josh was announced because he was not privy to helping make the decision. (ultimate ME player)

[NightTerror218]

Ravage was saying that this was false.


I DO know, that both McD and Xanders stated that Jay never asked for a trade.

That is what Ravage said......so he was arguing that Culter was a "ME" guy.

[LordTrychon]

I DO know, that both McD and Xanders stated that Jay never asked for a trade.

That is what Ravage said......so he was arguing that Culter was a "ME" guy.

Lol... I'm pretty sure that Rav was saying that Cutler never asked for a trade prior to the trade blowup... ;)

And that's what McD and Xanders have supported.

Not even Rav is so stupid as to think that Cutler NEVER asked for a trade.

He was responding directly to the idea that Cutler asked for a trade the second that Josh was hired. JR states that a lot, and it's never been proven (hence the debunked comments)

[Dean]

Why just single out Xanders? Guys I understand your criticism but there is question why do Ellis and Elway feel differently? Also its clear that McDaniels was Xanders boss and from what I've heard McDaniels had no problem acting unilaterally. McDaniels made personnel moves without at the very least informing Xanders exactly how was he suppose to stop that?

In 2009 when the younger Goodman disagreed with Josh, not only was he fired but his father was let go as well. IMO if you got on the wrong side of McD you were gone.

[NightTerror218]

Lol... I'm pretty sure that Rav was saying that Cutler never asked for a trade prior to the trade blowup... ;)

And that's what McD and Xanders have supported.

Not even Rav is so stupid as to think that Cutler NEVER asked for a trade.

He was responding directly to the idea that Cutler asked for a trade the second that Josh was hired. JR states that a lot, and it's never been proven (hence the debunked comments)



Ok, I read it in a different way. The debunked on the wanting to be trade just because McD was hired. I understand now. I was like, umm I remember Culter being asked to be traded but after McD expressed he wanted Cassel but only after a little bit.

[TXBRONC]

In 2009 when the younger Goodman disagreed with Josh, not only was he fired but his father was let go as well. IMO if you got on the wrong side of McD you were gone.

It sure seems that way.

[Lonestar]

I know you have posted this a number of times lately, but I don't recall ever seeing this. Do you know where this was published/stated?

Iirc a post article maybe column a few months ago. Best I can do.

[TXBRONC]

Iirc a post article maybe column a few months ago. Best I can do.

Nope. It's just shown again that Cutler did not ask to be traded after the hiring of Joshy. :coffee:

[Lonestar]

I remember reading about Cutler asking to be traded as soon as McD was hired.

It was rumored when all the BE was hitting the fan during the trade. And then after the season abOut 2-3 months ago it was a column pretty sure it was in the dp.

Of course all the nay sayers could nobelieveve it and it was debated in ernest.

So there is either a thread on it or it is part of a thread.

[NightTerror218]

It was rumored when all the BE was hitting the fan during the trade. And then after the season abOut 2-3 months ago it was a column pretty sure it was in the dp.

Of course all the nay sayers could nobelieveve it and it was debated in ernest.

So there is either a thread on it or it is part of a thread.

Right after McD was hired he went after Cassel.

[Davii]

:mod:

Ok folks, this is not directed at any one specific poster, but I'm seeing a LOT of it in this thread.

The comments along the lines of "not even (poster) is that stupid", or "clearly even (poster) can understand something so simple", or even "(insert issue here) supporters are stupid" are ALL personal attacks.

Debate a point, a topic, an idea. DO NOT debate another posters, or group of posters, intelligence, etc. Everyone here knows the rules, and I'm certain all know the spirit of those rules. There is no grey area when it comes to slighting the intelligence level of other posters.

Keep it on topic or moderator action is guaranteed to follow shortly.

[Northman]

Nope. It's just shown again that Cutler did not ask to be traded after the hiring of Joshy. :coffee:

Yea, i believe it was one columnist who claimed that Jay did but it was never confirmed or proven by anyone else except that columnist.

[Ravage!!!]

Ok, I read it in a different way. The debunked on the wanting to be trade just because McD was hired. I understand now. I was like, umm I remember Culter being asked to be traded but after McD expressed he wanted Cassel but only after a little bit.

Yeah.. I should have worded it better. JR has stated many times that Cutler DEMANDED to be traded the moment our OC was fired and McD was hired. But the truth is, thats not true at all. In Fact, Cutler was interviewed at the Pro-Bowl and stated quite frankly that he hadn't met "coach McDaniels" yet, but was looking forward to getting to know him, and to build up that trust.

Not long after, McD tried to sneak a three way trade for Cassel.

[nevcraw]

I remember reading that the minute Shanahan was fired Cutler went ape and demanded a trade then backed off / calmed down until he heard Mcd was dangling him out there.

anyone else?

[Northman]

I remember reading that the minute Shanahan was fired Cutler went ape and demanded a trade then backed off / calmed down until he heard Mcd was dangling him out there.

anyone else?


Nah, i believe King reported that Jay did but it was never confirmed and since then has never been confirmed by Jay or anyone else. While its true Jay was extremely displeased with the firing of Shanahan he never requested a trade.

[Davii]

I remember reading that the minute Shanahan was fired Cutler went ape and demanded a trade then backed off / calmed down until he heard Mcd was dangling him out there.

anyone else?

I remember reading something along those lines, but IIRC out wasn't the McD hiring but the during of the OC or Qb coach.

Either way, doesn't much matter. I don't holds Cutler being gone against McD, his attitude in Chi has, IMO, shown that he isn't the team guy, our at lready not the leader you need foyer a "franchise" qb.

[Lonestar]

Right after McD was hired he went after Cassel.

that is also debatable.. some want to believe that his first long distant phone call was to check out a trade..:laugh::laugh:

some think it happened during the tryouts in INDY (combine) and some believe it happened when he got the phone call..

what you believe, I guess it depends on whether your dress right left or not at all..:salute:

[Lonestar]

I remember reading something along those lines, but IIRC out wasn't the McD hiring but the during of the OC or Qb coach.

Either way, doesn't much matter. I don't holds Cutler being gone against McD, his attitude in Chi has, IMO, shown that he isn't the team guy, our at lready not the leader you need foyer a "franchise" qb.

good post. :salute:

but watch out those that have been in jays jock since before his drafting. they will come at you with a vengeance for slighting his wondrous name..

[Tned]

that is also debatable.. some want to believe that his first long distant phone call was to check out a trade..:laugh::laugh:

some think it happened during the tryouts in INDY (combine) and some believe it happened when he got the phone call..

what you believe, I guess it depends on whether your dress right left or not at all..:salute:

I think most people dress, or at least I hope they do, so I don't think it has anything to do with how they dress.

It's been pretty well established, from QUOTES from joshy, that he first discussed trading for Cassell while at the combine. I believe he said he hadn't thought of it before being approached, but after talking to two clubs at the combine, he began to consider it.

That's what we call a fact, as compared to some of the made up stuff on here and other boards.

Now, what is unclear is how much, if at all, he pursued a possible trade for Cassel following the combine, or if he dropped it until receiving the call about a possible three way trade, which he said he was "late to the game" and therefore couldn't complete a three way trade to off Cutler and get Cassel.

I do find it interesting that you state things like "Cutler demanded a trade the day McDaniels was hired" with little or NO basis in fact, but you ignore actual quotes from McDaniels when it comes to what he did and when he did it.

[Tned]

good post. :salute:

but watch out those that have been in jays jock since before his drafting. they will come at you with a vengeance for slighting his wondrous name..

Nobody goes after Davii. Some might say it's because he's a tough marine that could kill us with a McDonalds straw, but the fact is it's much simpler than that.

As many of our mothers have said, it isn't what you say, but how you say it. Davii makes his points the right way, so even when people disagree, they don't feel a need to get into a nasty begets nasty, exchange.

It truly is ok to for people to have differing opinions, without crude comments about jocks or other personal attacks. We could all learn a little from Davii.

[Davii]

I remember reading something along those lines, but IIRC out wasn't the McD hiring but the firing of the OC or Qb coach.

Either way, doesn't much matter. I don't hold Cutler being gone against McD, his attitude in Chi has, IMO, shown that he isn't the team guy, our at least not the leader you need from a "franchise" qb.

I need to slow down when posting from my phone. That post makes it look as though I have zero grasp on the english language. Then again, maybe I don't.

[Tned]

I need to slow down when posting from my phone. That post makes it look as though I have zero grasp on the english language. Then again, maybe I don't.

Yea, the phones can be brutal. I have recently switched to using the Swype keyboard on my phone and tablet. It's faster, but even more prone to auto-correcting/guessing wrong. I'm trying to always go back and read and correct before submitting, but some doozies are still slipping through. :lol:

[Davii]

Yea, the phones can be brutal. I have recently switched to using the Swype keyboard on my phone and tablet. It's faster, but even more prone to auto-correcting/guessing wrong. I'm trying to always go back and read and correct before submitting, but some doozies are still slipping through. :lol:

Same same. I love the swype, but it definitely does have a few issues with getting words wrong. The worst part is that if you don't catch it that word winds up getting saved in the swype dictionary and pops up every time. You can delete it, but you still have to be paying a reasonable amount of attention to catch it.

If I just slow down i'll be ok, but for some reason I feel the need to try and type as fast as I do on a computer.

[Tned]

Same same. I love the swype, but it definitely does have a few issues with getting words wrong. The worst part is that if you don't catch it that word winds up getting saved in the swype dictionary and pops up every time. You can delete it, but you still have to be paying a reasonable amount of attention to catch it.

If I just slow down i'll be ok, but for some reason I feel the need to try and type as fast as I do on a computer.

Ditto on the speed. I think mine's messed up. I have a couple words that I have attempted to delete multiple times, but they still keep coming up.

Still, now that I am getting used to it, I wouldn't want to live without Swype.

[Lonestar]

Speaking of phone dictionaries doe snayome know how to edit the one on iPhones.
Had my blackberry down to a knats ass but can't even find it on this one.

That Said there is indeed an article outhere the discussses jay asking for a trade when Josh was announced. I do not have time to find it especially while on an iPhone format. And since about 98% of my posting and time is via it. I doubt I will be able to find it. But is is indeed out there not s figment of my imagination.
As for dressing L or R I guess that went completely over your head.

[Tned]

As for dressing L or R I guess that went completely over your head.

I've never heard that saying.

[Lonestar]

I've never heard that saying.

Never had a suit or slacks custom made? It is a question they will ask.

[Tned]

Never had a suit or slacks custom made? It is a question they will ask.

Nope, I'm just a southern boy that buys off the rack.

[Lonestar]

POSTED: 01/23/2011 01:00:00 AM MST
UPDATED: 01/23/2011 08:35:27 AM MST

In defense of Josh McDaniels, he never had a chance with Jay Cutler.

On Jan. 12, 2009, the day that McDaniels was officially announced as the Broncos' head coach, Cutler called the front office and demanded a trade, according to three NFL sources.

It was grimy from the start. Everyone agrees the franchise's divorce from its franchise quarterback never should have happened. No one is sure why.

Among the oddities of McJaygate is that neither party was initially at fault. Cutler had every right to be ticked because, after losing head coach Mike Shanahan, he was briefly appeased by the belief that owner Pat Bowlen would confide in him while the replacement was chosen.

Read more: Klis: Jay Cutler's departure led to Josh McDaniels' - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/klis/ci_17170363#ixzz1Sa0GeNuW
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

[Lonestar]

Nope, I'm just a southern boy that buys off the rack.

When in London sometime have one made. They say clothes make the man.

Anyway the tailor asked if you dress right or left. Meaning which on leg your manhood is placed. so they can add additional room for it.

Well that applies to most. Ahahahahahahahaha

[Tned]

When in London sometime have one made. They say clothes make the man.

Anyway the tailor asked if you dress right or left. Meaning which on leg your manhood is placed. so they can add additional room for it.

Well that applies to most. Ahahahahahahahaha

lol, ok. Nope, never heard that.

[Davii]

When in London sometime have one made. They say clothes make the man.

Anyway the tailor asked if you dress right or left. Meaning which on leg your manhood is placed. so they can add additional room for it.

Well that applies to most. Ahahahahahahahaha

Here I always thought it was which direction your jacket buttoned.

[Lonestar]

in defense of Josh McDaniels, he never had a chance with Jay Cutler.
On Jan. 12, 2009, the day that McDaniels was officially announced as the Broncos' head coach, Cutler called the front office and demanded a trade, according to three NFL sources.
url]
meant to add thanks to fellow Eagle for sending me a link finding this. :salute:

Knew it wAs out there sorry that NO ONE seemed to remember debating it.

Although I thought it was later in the year. march April my how times flies when your having fun.

[Lonestar]

Here I always thought it was which direction your jacket buttoned.

Well that only applies to male and female.

But then I did mention L R and not all all.

[nevcraw]

meant to add thanks to fellow Eagle for sending me a link finding this. :salute:

Knew it wAs out there sorry that NO ONE seemed to remember debating it.

Although I thought it was later in the year. march April my how times flies when your having fun.

No one dude? I mentioned it yesterday..

[scott.475]

POSTED: 01/23/2011 01:00:00 AM MST
UPDATED: 01/23/2011 08:35:27 AM MST

In defense of Josh McDaniels, he never had a chance with Jay Cutler.

On Jan. 12, 2009, the day that McDaniels was officially announced as the Broncos' head coach, Cutler called the front office and demanded a trade, according to three NFL sources.

It was grimy from the start. Everyone agrees the franchise's divorce from its franchise quarterback never should have happened. No one is sure why.

Among the oddities of McJaygate is that neither party was initially at fault. Cutler had every right to be ticked because, after losing head coach Mike Shanahan, he was briefly appeased by the belief that owner Pat Bowlen would confide in him while the replacement was chosen.

Read more: Klis: Jay Cutler's departure led to Josh McDaniels' - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/klis/ci_17170363#ixzz1Sa0GeNuW
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Know what I always found interesting about that 3 sources story was, they were NFL sources, not Bronco sources. If this was the truth, why wasn't there more than one story about it? (I know there was more than one article about it, but they were all based off the original Klis article). Other than the original Klis article, I don't remember any other original stories confirming the immediate trade demand. Over time the positions of those sources should have at least been given ("highly placed team personnel staffer", etc). It just always seemed too convenient to me, especially since I had actually seen Cutler say he was looking forward to meeting with McD. Other than the single Klis article, I don't think there were any other verified stories stating the same thing. Remember what a huge story this was at the time, if the immediate demand story was true I think more than one writer would have been able to verify it independently, and I am not saying that because I am a Cutler homer.

Regarding Xanders and his complicity in what happened while McD was here, why he didn't put a stop to it, I can see how that could happen. I can see Pat and Joe bringing in McD to bring a whole new system and saying "Josh knows the system, he knows how to implement it, we need to give him the resources and support to implement his plan". Xanders may well have gone to Ellis with his concerns, just to be told "We need to support Josh and give him time". I'm no Xanders apologist, I only want him to succeed because he is our GM, but this is just a different way to think about how things MAY have transpired in the offices at Dove Valley, and why Xanders got relegated to nothing more than a guy holding a title while Josh was here.

[scott.475]

I need to slow down when posting from my phone. That post makes it look as though I have zero grasp on the english language. Then again, maybe I don't.

I can't tell you how glad I am you posted that. In the last few weeks I have started thinking "My gosh, have half the people on here forgotten how to write?" As I thought about it a bit, I came to presume it must be from using the smartphones. But honestly, reading some of those posts, trying to figure them out, gives me a small headache sometimes.

[MOtorboat]

POSTED: 01/23/2011 01:00:00 AM MST
UPDATED: 01/23/2011 08:35:27 AM MST

In defense of Josh McDaniels, he never had a chance with Jay Cutler.

On Jan. 12, 2009, the day that McDaniels was officially announced as the Broncos' head coach, Cutler called the front office and demanded a trade, according to three NFL sources.

It was grimy from the start. Everyone agrees the franchise's divorce from its franchise quarterback never should have happened. No one is sure why.

Among the oddities of McJaygate is that neither party was initially at fault. Cutler had every right to be ticked because, after losing head coach Mike Shanahan, he was briefly appeased by the belief that owner Pat Bowlen would confide in him while the replacement was chosen.

Read more: Klis: Jay Cutler's departure led to Josh McDaniels' - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/klis/ci_17170363#ixzz1Sa0GeNuW
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

That is clearly not true, because it makes Jay Cutler look bad. Clearly, Jay Cutler was an innocent victim.

[Tned]

That is clearly not true, because it makes Jay Cutler look bad. Clearly, Jay Cutler was an innocent victim.

Sarcasm aside -- oh wait, is that possible, there wouldn't be a post left -- would you care to provide links to all, or even any, posts that have claimed Jay was innocent in everything that went down?

[atwater27]

Sarcasm aside -- oh wait, is that possible, there wouldn't be a post left -- would you care to provide links to all, or even any, posts that have claimed Jay was innocent in everything that went down?

Nobody is innocent. except for MO. As pure as the driven snow.

[Lonestar]

"too convenient to me, especially since I had actually seen Cutler say he was looking forward to meeting with McD. Other than the single Klis article, I don't think there were any other verified stories stating the same thing. Remember what a huge story this was at the time, if the immediate demand story was true I think more than one writer would have been able to verify it independently, and I am not saying that because I am a Cutler homer."

Scott Your just to verbose to quite intoto.
What does it matter If other reporters did not also talk about it? This was clearly to anyone that did not hate Josh a good story and it was done after the fact. Hard to rebut if you did not have the same sources and all they would have been doing is piling on.

There where plenty of storyies about jay asking to bs traded
Before the casell incident as there were loads of quotes about jay and Josh anxious to get to know each other. What would you expect them to say.
Jay knowing he had few alternatives but to get to know the new scheme and HC (being under contract) and all
What else is he going to say publicly. I know this little ***** is going to screw me?

They were playing nice nice with each other hoping it would turn out differently.

If the story is indeed true and I have little doubt that it is (not refuted by either jay, the broncos or Josh) it would help to explain the early trade talks that Tned keeps talking about.

I'm also guessing that other reporters just felt like it was reported and could not take it farther than it was. Both were gone and would probably not increase readership.

[Lonestar]

That is clearly not true, because it makes Jay Cutler look bad. Clearly, Jay Cutler was an innocent victim.

Well in most of the members eyes After all he is the super star all pro qb that "LED" chicago to the play offs.
Even though he has had 50 TD and 42 pick and God only knows how many fumbles the past two years.

[Ravage!!!]

Really...only god knows how many? :confused:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I think keeping Xanders around (even though I think he should've been fired alongside McDaniels) was a logical outcome because they already knew that Elway was coming in.

Not firing Xanders and then having to hire a better (and more pricey) GM made business sense when the new guy would have to work for Elway anyway. I have no idea how much he makes, but I'd be willing to bet he's one of the lowest paid GMs in the league - and for good reason.

[atwater27]

"too convenient to me, especially since I had actually seen Cutler say he was looking forward to meeting with McD. Other than the single Klis article, I don't think there were any other verified stories stating the same thing. Remember what a huge story this was at the time, if the immediate demand story was true I think more than one writer would have been able to verify it independently, and I am not saying that because I am a Cutler homer."

Scott Your just to verbose to quite intoto.
What does it matter If other reporters did not also talk about it? This was clearly to anyone that did not hate Josh a good story and it was done after the fact. Hard to rebut if you did not have the same sources and all they would have been doing is piling on.

There where plenty of storyies about jay asking to bs traded
Before the casell incident as there were loads of quotes about jay and Josh anxious to get to know each other. What would you expect them to say.
Jay knowing he had few alternatives but to get to know the new scheme and HC (being under contract) and all
What else is he going to say publicly. I know this little ***** is going to screw me?

They were playing nice nice with each other hoping it would turn out differently.

If the story is indeed true and I have little doubt that it is (not refuted by either jay, the broncos or Josh) it would help to explain the early trade talks that Tned keeps talking about.

I'm also guessing that other reporters just felt like it was reported and could not take it farther than it was. Both were gone and would probably not increase readership.

Let me get this straight....

you hate shanny, hate Cutler, love McD. What are your thoughts on Fox? Xanders? Elway? Tebow? I just want to get them straight for the record.

[jhildebrand]

I have yet to read this and look forward to it. However, there has been a consistent sales job surrounding Xanders since the day McDaniels was let go. The first draft he and McDaniels had together had a board of 100 players. 100. No wonder that first draft is viewed with such pessimism and general negativity. In the end, I think it is clear to see that there is a new regime and the first two to be released/scapegoated will be Xanders and Ellis and not necessarily in that order.

[Tned]

I have yet to read this and look forward to it. However, there has been a consistent sales job surrounding Xanders since the day McDaniels was let go. The first draft he and McDaniels had together had a board of 100 players. 100. No wonder that first draft is viewed with such pessimism and general negativity. In the end, I think it is clear to see that there is a new regime and the first two to be released/scapegoated will be Xanders and Ellis and not necessarily in that order.

Ok, let me get this straight. There has been a concerted effort made by Ellis and Elway to "sell" the fans on Xanders, solely for the purpose of using him and Ellis as scape goats if Fox ****s things up as bad as McDaniels?

I got to admit, I'm having trouble buying this one.

[Davii]

God only knows how many fumbles the past two years.

19. I don't like sacrifices, so please try to keep them to a minimum. TIA.

[MOtorboat]

Ok, let me get this straight. There has been a concerted effort made by Ellis and Elway to "sell" the fans on Xanders, solely for the purpose of using him and Ellis as scape goats if Fox ****s things up as bad as McDaniels?

I got to admit, I'm having trouble buying this one.

How else do you explain the media tour Xanders went on after the Elway hire where he threw McDaniels under the bus repeatedly?

[Tned]

How else do you explain the media tour Xanders went on after the Elway hire where he threw McDaniels under the bus repeatedly?

That whole Jose's Razors thinga ma jiggy.

Under McDaniels, the media had basically zero access to assistant coaches (unprecedented in Denver, maybe elsewhere) and little more contact with Xanders. McDaniels didn't allow it (as reported by the beat reporters).

After his firing, all of the Broncos staff was part of the PR transparency blitz to try and turn around fan morale and perception. Xanders was part of that. With Xanders, it was a two-pronged thing. Trying to inspire confidence that the ship could be turned around, by talking about what they would be doing, and letting people know a bit about himself, and also what his role was, and wasn't, under McDaniels.

I'm flabbergasted at how many people think that Elway and Ellis are lying, and allowing Xanders to lie, about the structure and who was making the decisions when McDaniels was here. At some point people need to use common sense. If Xanders was the one that screwed up the roster and made all the bone head personnel moves, or was simply a major part in those, then why the heck would the Broncos lie to the fans and media to cover it up in order to get support for Xanders? They wouldn't, they would have fired him.

This isn't some area 51 conspiracy.

[Dean]

19. I don't like sacrifices, so please try to keep them to a minimum. TIA.

I believe that I speak for the posters on this forum when I offer thanks to you. After all, ;) goats and even to a greater extent virgins as sacifices are so difficult to come by these days.

[BigDaddyBronco]

That whole Jose's Razors thinga ma jiggy.

Under McDaniels, the media had basically zero access to assistant coaches (unprecedented in Denver, maybe elsewhere) and little more contact with Xanders. McDaniels didn't allow it (as reported by the beat reporters).

After his firing, all of the Broncos staff was part of the PR transparency blitz to try and turn around fan morale and perception. Xanders was part of that. With Xanders, it was a two-pronged thing. Trying to inspire confidence that the ship could be turned around, by talking about what they would be doing, and letting people know a bit about himself, and also what his role was, and wasn't, under McDaniels.

I'm flabbergasted at how many people think that Elway and Ellis are lying, and allowing Xanders to lie, about the structure and who was making the decisions when McDaniels was here. At some point people need to use common sense. If Xanders was the one that screwed up the roster and made all the bone head personnel moves, or was simply a major part in those, then why the heck would the Broncos lie to the fans and media to cover it up in order to get support for Xanders? They wouldn't, they would have fired him.

This isn't some area 51 conspiracy.

Maybe Xanders snowed Elway on what was or wasn't his responsibility. Who knows? Either way, he is claiming responsibility for the new crop of talent, so if they suck, it's on him.

Personally, I wanted the whole group gone including Ellis and Xanders.

[MOtorboat]

That whole Jose's Razors thinga ma jiggy.

Under McDaniels, the media had basically zero access to assistant coaches (unprecedented in Denver, maybe elsewhere) and little more contact with Xanders. McDaniels didn't allow it (as reported by the beat reporters).

After his firing, all of the Broncos staff was part of the PR transparency blitz to try and turn around fan morale and perception. Xanders was part of that. With Xanders, it was a two-pronged thing. Trying to inspire confidence that the ship could be turned around, by talking about what they would be doing, and letting people know a bit about himself, and also what his role was, and wasn't, under McDaniels.

I'm flabbergasted at how many people think that Elway and Ellis are lying, and allowing Xanders to lie, about the structure and who was making the decisions when McDaniels was here. At some point people need to use common sense. If Xanders was the one that screwed up the roster and made all the bone head personnel moves, or was simply a major part in those, then why the heck would the Broncos lie to the fans and media to cover it up in order to get support for Xanders? They wouldn't, they would have fired him.

This isn't some area 51 conspiracy.

I'm not claiming its a conspiracy. It just seemed curious to me why Xanders was so incredibly open about how all of the perceived "screw ups" were McDaniels going rogue and how all of the still to be evaluated things, or the few things that went well were a team effort and he was suddenly involved in those decisions.

They clearly conducted their media lip-service, throw the ex-coach under the bus tour well.

[Tned]

Maybe Xanders snowed Elway on what was or wasn't his responsibility. Who knows? Either way, he is claiming responsibility for the new crop of talent, so if they suck, it's on him.

Personally, I wanted the whole group gone including Ellis and Xanders.

I can completely buy into the possibility that Xanders sold/convinced/tricked Ellis and Elway. Not saying it happened, but it's possible. My issue is people painting this conspiracy theory where Ellis and Elway are lying to fans and media to cover up Xanders involvement and make McDaniels the scape goat. It's just ridiculous.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I can completely buy into the possibility that Xanders sold/convinced/tricked Ellis and Elway. Not saying it happened, but it's possible. My issue is people painting this conspiracy theory where Ellis and Elway are lying to fans and media to cover up Xanders involvement and make McDaniels the scape goat. It's just ridiculous.

Agree there. Just had to look at the product on the field to see that McDaniels was a train wreck. That and the reaction of 90% of the fanbase, no need for Elway to blame McDaniels or to try and cover for Xanders.

[NightTerror218]

Agree there. Just had to look at the product on the field to see that McDaniels was a train wreck. That and the reaction of 90% of the fanbase, no need for Elway to blame McDaniels or to try and cover for Xanders.

They have never blamed McDaniels, its a huge black mark in our great franchise history and it is better not mentioned. Which is what I think they are doing. Xanders has Elway there now so he will be kept in check also. I think it is going to be Elway/Fox running everything with Xanders chiming in with his 2 cents but involved with everything also.

[nevcraw]

I can completely buy into the possibility that Xanders sold/convinced/tricked Ellis and Elway. Not saying it happened, but it's possible. My issue is people painting this conspiracy theory where Ellis and Elway are lying to fans and media to cover up Xanders involvement and make McDaniels the scape goat. It's just ridiculous.

Hey Tned -- I never claimed conspiracy either.. you just wanted to shift the argument there.
My issue was Xanders and his comlicity with the terrible decisions under the Mcd regime. you took that as a conspiracy because Elway and Ellis kept him around. you are now saying you could buy a way in which he was complicit yet retained.. what made you come around?

[Tned]

Hey Tned -- I never claimed conspiracy either.. you just wanted to shift the argument there.
My issue was Xanders and his comlicity with the terrible decisions under the Mcd regime. you took that as a conspiracy because Elway and Ellis kept him around. you are now saying you could buy a way in which he was complicit yet retained.. what made you come around?

I haven't.