ESPN: 5 Overrated Players (2 Broncos)

[Peerless]

Jay Cutler, QB Broncos

Cutler's 16 touchdown passes rank third in the league, and his 2,169 passing yards are fourth-best. He also is a favorite among fantasy players, as his 128 points currently rank him sixth in overall scoring in ESPN leagues.

As impressive as those cumulative figures are, Cutler's performance level has declined dramatically as the season has progressed. Cutler had a passer rating of 93 or higher in his first three games but has topped that mark only once since then. That drop-off has lowered his passer-rating ranking to 16th.

Another reason Cutler makes this list is that he hasn't improved in the one problem area that plagued him during his first two years: bad-decision percentage. It is quite difficult for any team to be successful when its quarterback has a bad-decision rate of 4.0 or higher, and Cutler was at or over the 5.0 mark in his rookie and sophomore professional seasons.

He hasn't shown any progress on this front in 2008, as his 5.3 mark in this metric indicates. Unless and until Cutler can push his mistakes total down to an acceptable level, he'll never be the great quarterback he's capable of becoming.

John Abraham, DE, Falcons

It is hard to knock any defensive lineman who puts up 10 sacks in eight games, but let's take a closer look at Abraham's sacks.

In Week 1, he posted a one-on-one sack against Detroit right tackle George Foster. Only six tackles gave up more sacks than Foster in 2007, and Foster started only nine games that year. He's obviously a below-average pass-blocker, so beating him isn't an indicator of great pass-rush skill.

That is the case with all four of Abraham's one-on-one sacks. He beat the Chiefs' Damion McIntosh for a sack in Week 3 and destroyed Oakland's Kwame Harris for two sacks in Week 9. McIntosh has bounced around the league throughout his career, and Harris is so bad that he probably shouldn't even be employed in the NFL.

If that wasn't enough to bring Abraham's sacks explosion into perspective, consider that four of his sacks are coverage sacks and one is a run sack. All of this doesn't mean that Abraham is having a bad season, but multiple pass-rushers are having better seasons than he is, and they deserve the Honolulu trip more than Abraham does.

Jerod Mayo, LB, Patriots

Mayo is a perfect example of a player whose tackles total raises his perceived performance level well above what it truly is. Mayo won the rookie defensive player of the month award in October largely because of his 24 tackles in that period.

Mayo's point-of-attack (POA) run metrics for the season show that he actually is struggling quite badly in one of the primary functions for his position. I have broken down six of the Patriots' eight games, and in that sample, Mayo has been at the run POA 34 times. He has defeated only six of those blocks, which equates to a POA win percentage of 17.7. If historical trends are a good indicator, that would place him in the bottom quarter of the league at season's end. His run-stuffing prowess is probably even worse than that if the 7.2 yards per attempt on the POA runs is added to the analysis.

Brandon Marshall, WR, Broncos
I didn't want to put two players from one team on this list, but Marshall is ranked fourth in receptions and eighth in receiving yards. That type of showing all but assures he will receive much Pro Bowl consideration, so it makes him worth a closer look.

The extra examination time doesn't do him much good. Marshall is averaging only 7.1 YPA, which not only is below Pro Bowl-caliber, it also could place him in the lower half of the league in that metric at season's end. Marshall also is averaging only 7.0 YPA when facing someone in coverage, be it a cornerback, safety or linebacker. That doesn't compare favorably with his 7.4 YPA against cornerbacks in 2007 and is a sign that Marshall has regressed some in 2008.

Ronde Barber, CB, Buccaneers

It was a bit difficult to name any cornerback as overrated because the main criterion most people use to decide who to pick for the Pro Bowl at this position is interceptions, and no one has a significant lead there. But Barber is a big-name cornerback on a team that's making a resurgence, and he has a high-profile twin brother who can pitch him to a national television audience every week. That means he has a lot of advantages in the hype tiebreakers.

Where he doesn't have an advantage is in the metrics. I have graded seven of the Buccaneers' eight games, and Barber has an 11.2 YPA and a 24.1 percent success rate. Both of those are the types of statistics that would get a young player benched or cut, but Barber has the career clout that allows him to weather this type of subpar-performance storm. Just because he keeps his job, however, doesn't mean he is worthy of the postseason honor roll.

KC Joyner, aka the Football Scientist, is a regular contributor to ESPN Insider. His core coverage metrics for all skill-position players and cornerbacks are available in the ESPN Fantasy Football Magazine. His new book "Blindsided: Why The Left Tackle is Overrated and Other Contrarian Football Thoughts," is available in bookstores and on Amazon.com. For more information, check out KC's Web site, www.thefootballscientist.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=3683651

Interesting....

[MOtorboat]

Is there really anything that surprising or interesting about that?

Cutler is throwing too many interceptions, forcing the ball and making bad decisions, and Marshall is dropping passes left and right.

[JKcatch724]

that was one of the dumbest articles ever.

[Italianmobstr7]

Is there really anything that surprising or interesting about that?

Cutler is throwing too many interceptions, forcing the ball and making bad decisions, and Marshall is dropping passes left and right.

So you also believe that Cutler and Marshall are overrated? 2 of the top 5 MOST overrated players in the league? Really? I don't think so. Marshall is probably the BEST receiver in the league even after he had 2 bad games. If he's not #1, he's top 5 no doubt. Cutler after a fast start had a few bad games, but last night WILLED our team to victory. He put this team on his back (like people last week were saying that he couldn't do) and won the game for us. He's 2nd in the league in TD's, and 1st in yards. He is tied for 2nd in picks, but he's also thrown the most passes by about 40 attempts. Neither Cutler or Marshall are overrated. That article is crap. I read it before it was posted here, and was so disgusted that I didn't even bother posting it because it's nothing but crap.

[MOtorboat]

So you also believe that Cutler and Marshall are overrated? 2 of the top 5 MOST overrated players in the league? Really? I don't think so. Marshall is probably the BEST receiver in the league even after he had 2 bad games. If he's not #1, he's top 5 no doubt. Cutler after a fast start had a few bad games, but last night WILLED our team to victory. He put this team on his back (like people last week were saying that he couldn't do) and won the game for us. He's 2nd in the league in TD's, and 1st in yards. He is tied for 2nd in picks, but he's also thrown the most passes by about 40 attempts. Neither Cutler or Marshall are overrated. That article is crap. I read it before it was posted here, and was so disgusted that I didn't even bother posting it because it's nothing but crap.

If Cutler continues to make dumb mistakes and Marshall continues to drop passes and run his mouth, yeah, I do believe they are overrated. You may think its crap, because you've got orange and blue glasses on. Like it or not, but that's the view nationally of these players. I'm sorry you get so pissed off when you hear that.

[Tned]

The last six games, Cutler has played very poorly, even though in a few of those games he has had a lot of yards. He could very easily have 6 or 8 more picks over that stretch, which goes to that bad decision making number they tout.

He and the coaches, talked about how much time they spent in the offseason working on this very issue -- working with him on taking the short pass, moving the chains. He looked great the first three games, and it is almost as if the success made him believe he could complete any pass, anywhere on the field. The last six games, he has both made many bad decisions, but also been highly inaccurate.

Is he one of the top five overrated players? I don't think so, but he has earned a great deal of the criticism he has received the last 6 weeks.

[Italianmobstr7]

Jay Cutler 211 Completions 1st in the league, 342 attempts 1st in the league, 61.7 % completion percentage, 2,616 yards 1st in the league, 18 TD's 2nd in the league. He's thrown 11 interceptions which is 2nd worst in the league.

Brandon Marshall 57 Rec 3rd in the league, 714 yds 5th in the league, 4 TD's 4th in the league. All of this while being held to 2 catches against Miami (1 drop) and not even playing in the first game of the season. So him being considered the best or a top 5 WR isn't out of the question and is not overrating him. TO drops passes all the damn time. Braylon Edwards leads the league in dropped passes since he joined the league, do you think he's overrated too? What does running his mouth have to do with anything? Running his mouth doesn't make him a worse receiver. Chad Johnson and TO talk all the time, and they're 2 of the best. We're talking about on field play, not their off the field actions or words.

You can sit there and say I'm wearing orange tinted glasses, but the stats are facts. Marshall probably has 5 or 6 drops all year. Who gives a rats ass. Every WR drops passes and every qb makes mistakes. I don't think that anyone has rated Cutler high enough to be overrated. Marshall is talked about LIKE HE SHOULD BE for being one of the best at his position. Cutler has made some stupid throws, and some bad decisions, but he's also made some great throws, and great decisions. Marshall may drop some passes. But he makes up for them with all of the great plays that he makes. Can you honestly name 5 qb's better than Cutler playing this year, and 5 wr's better than Marshall? I can think of some guys that are close, but I couldn't see 5 wr's being better than either Cutler or Marshall, and the stats prove it.

[MOtorboat]

Jay Cutler 211 Completions 1st in the league, 342 attempts 1st in the league, 61.7 % completion percentage, 2,616 yards 1st in the league, 18 TD's 2nd in the league. He's thrown 11 interceptions which is 2nd worst in the league.

Brandon Marshall 57 Rec 3rd in the league, 714 yds 5th in the league, 4 TD's 4th in the league. All of this while being held to 2 catches against Miami (1 drop) and not even playing in the first game of the season. So him being considered the best or a top 5 WR isn't out of the question and is not overrating him. TO drops passes all the damn time. Braylon Edwards leads the league in dropped passes since he joined the league, do you think he's overrated too? What does running his mouth have to do with anything? Running his mouth doesn't make him a worse receiver. Chad Johnson and TO talk all the time, and they're 2 of the best. We're talking about on field play, not their off the field actions or words.

You can sit there and say I'm wearing orange tinted glasses, but the stats are facts. Marshall probably has 5 or 6 drops all year. Who gives a rats ass. Every WR drops passes and every qb makes mistakes. I don't think that anyone has rated Cutler high enough to be overrated. Marshall is talked about LIKE HE SHOULD BE for being one of the best at his position. Cutler has made some stupid throws, and some bad decisions, but he's also made some great throws, and great decisions. Marshall may drop some passes. But he makes up for them with all of the great plays that he makes. Can you honestly name 5 qb's better than Cutler playing this year, and 5 wr's better than Marshall? I can think of some guys that are close, but I couldn't see 5 wr's being better than either Cutler or Marshall, and the stats prove it.

And we're 5-4...thus the over-rated. I don't think its that hard to figure out why they are on that list. That is the national perception. Again, sorry it pisses you off so much...

[Benetto]

They're regressing in the stupid numbers, like YPA, and Passer rating. As long as they are winning, that's what matters.


Definitely not Overrated.

[SR]

So you also believe that Cutler and Marshall are overrated? 2 of the top 5 MOST overrated players in the league? Really? I don't think so. Marshall is probably the BEST receiver in the league even after he had 2 bad games. If he's not #1, he's top 5 no doubt. Cutler after a fast start had a few bad games, but last night WILLED our team to victory. He put this team on his back (like people last week were saying that he couldn't do) and won the game for us. He's 2nd in the league in TD's, and 1st in yards. He is tied for 2nd in picks, but he's also thrown the most passes by about 40 attempts. Neither Cutler or Marshall are overrated. That article is crap. I read it before it was posted here, and was so disgusted that I didn't even bother posting it because it's nothing but crap.

Brandon Marshall IS NOT the best receiver in the league, and maybe not even top 10. Above him, off the top of my head, I'd put Larry Fitzgerald at #1, then in no particular order, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Anquan Boldin, and Steve Smith. Would I say he or Cutler are over rated? No. Cutler has all of the tools to be an NFL great, as does Marshall. Marshall NEEDS to quit dropping passes though. He'd have 10-12 more receptions this year had it not been for his drops. He needs to talk to Javon Walker about how to make his hands strong enough to catch anything.

[SR]

Can you honestly name 5 qb's better than Cutler playing this year, and 5 wr's better than Marshall? I can think of some guys that are close, but I couldn't see 5 wr's being better than either Cutler or Marshall, and the stats prove it.

I can't name five with better stats, but I sure as shit can name a few that are playing better. Stats don't mean the players are playing well. Cutler and Marshall are both doing things throughout the course of a game that a seasoned vet would not do. Cutler's bad decision making has put us in binds over the past six games. That "stat" is what earned him this spot on the over rated list. Stats are not indicators of how well a team or a player is playing. They are deceiving.

[G_Money]

You have to be rated really highly to be considered top-5 over-rated, I guess. The guy seems to be saying that he expects Cutler and Marshall to fade back to their "true" levels. He doesn't seem to understand that to us who watch them every game this appears to be them "scuffling" not "playing above their ability level" or "having good but bogus stats."

Bill James explained the baseball situation because he had years upon years of stats related to those guys to base his opinion on. We have 2 years-ish with Cutler and Marshall. Their ability level baseline is not set, and since football is far more of a game of scheme and cooperation than is baseball, where on offense it's one batter against one pitcher every time, it's harder to predict what scheme change will do to stats. Nor what player-dynamics can do to a tandem.

When he took Cutler AND Marshall he took two players whose fates are tied to one another. If Marshall defeats coverage more often and holds on to the ball, Cutler should throw fewer picks and both will look better. If Cutler makes better decisions instead of doing the throwing-it-to-Marshall show for every 5 yard pass, Marshall's YPC should improve.

If Royal takes more coverage off of Marshall, both Cutler and Marshall should get better. If Scheffler gets healthy and Stokley can stay on the field and we can find some sort of running game and Hillis can be a weapon out of the backfield...

You see where I'm going. Stats in baseball are "yours." Stats in football are team stats, unless you're a kicker, and even then there are team aspects.

Cutler and Marshall are dragging each other down right now. Shouldn't it be terrifying to the opposition that THIS is them being "over-rated" and "not as good as their stats would indicate"?

If one clicks, both should click, and if both click, lookout world.

And lookout KC Joyner, Top Five over-rated article writer.

~G

[Italianmobstr7]

I can't name five with better stats, but I sure as shit can name a few that are playing better. Stats don't mean the players are playing well. Cutler and Marshall are both doing things throughout the course of a game that a seasoned vet would not do. Cutler's bad decision making has put us in binds over the past six games. That "stat" is what earned him this spot on the over rated list. Stats are not indicators of how well a team or a player is playing. They are deceiving.

Brandon Marshall has had 2 bad games. If you count yesterday as a bad game. I guess nowadays 6 catches for 89 yards and a TD is a bad game....
Even if stats don't tell the story, you're right. Marshall has had 2 bad games in a row, and Cutler has had some bad games (yesterday was not one of them). I don't care if he ALMOST threw 5 or 6 picks. He only threw 1 and it was Marshall's fault. Hence the bad game. So I'll chalk up 2 bad games for Marshall and 3 of 4 for Marshall. Their still not 2 of the top 5 overrated players in the game. IMO, They're not overrated either. But It's not going to change anyone's mind. We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe that Marshall is easily a top 5 receiver in the league. His stats prove it, as does his play on the field. I'd say the top 5 in the league, in no particular order are:

Marshall
Fitzgerald
Moss
Andre Johnson
Terrell Owens

You can also make an argument for Anquan Boldin and Reggie Wayne. But I still wouldn't take ANY of those players over Marshall. With Cutler, he will need to cut down on the mistakes, but he's still a top qb in the league. He did last night what every one was saying that he couldn't. And that's take the team on his back, and bring them to victory. Cutler can do it, and he proved it again last night.

[SR]

I'd take Larry Fitzgerald over Marshall with out even thinking about it. Fitz is a man among boys on the football field.

[Italianmobstr7]

I'd take Larry Fitzgerald over Marshall with out even thinking about it. Fitz is a man among boys on the football field.

So is Marshall... How many 18 catch games has Larry Fitzgerald had?

[dogfish]

**** ESPiN! they know where they can stick their metrics. . . .

[SR]

Dude, if you seriously think that Marshall in his third year is better than Fitz, who need I remind you, plays for the CARDINALS, I won't even bother talking football with you any more. Against Miami, Fitz had SIX catches for about the same amount of yards as Marshall had with 18. Come on dude. Fitz is the poop. Take your orange and blue glasses off for a minute. Marshall has been in the league for three years. He's not the best in the league and there are about a half dozen receivers in the leage that are probably better than he is; maybe not statistically this year, but still better. Be realistic...

[MOtorboat]

So is Marshall... How many 18 catch games has Larry Fitzgerald had?

I really think you're failing to grasp the whole idea of "over-rated.'

Over-rated is, and especially in this case, not being quite as good as your stats indicate...

[SR]

I really think you're failing to grasp the whole idea of "over-rated.'

Over-rated is, and especially in this case, not being quite as good as your stats indicate...

Thank you. They aren't saying that people think he's great and he's not, they are saying that he is really good, but people already think he's great and he's not living up to that hype just yet. Once he learns how to use his body better and quits dropping the damn ball, he'll be up there again. He needs to quit his shit too. I'm a big fan of class, and when I saw the highlight of him reaching in his pants to pull out that glove, I just wanted to scream. I'm glad Stokely and Scheffler were there to stop him. He'll grow up some day...

[Italianmobstr7]

He is as good as his stats indicate. That's why he's not overrated. A couple of bad games, don't make you not a great player. TO has had a horrible season, but nobody doubts his abilities. Maybe Marshall needs to prove it longer before some of you believe that he's top 5 or the best, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Larry Fitz is a beast SR, but at this point, I'd still take Marshall over him. Marshall is younger, and has more potential IMO. Marshall has the skills to be one of the best WR's of all time. We'll see if he develops into it. He's already becoming one of the best in the league. Maybe he needs to do it for a longer time, but by the end of next season, there will be no doubt that he's one of the best.

[NameUsedBefore]

They're right, stats don't tell the whole. For instance, how we haven't had a semblance of a running game after those first games.

[dogfish]

okay, just to play devil's advocate, what can fitz do that marshall can't?

is he faster? quicker? bigger? stronger? does he run better routes? have better body control? better leaping ability? track the ball over his shoulder better? run better after the catch? block better? is he tougher on underneath routes? read defenses better and make better adjustments when he's the hot receiver? shield defenders from the ball better? fight harder for it in traffic? is he more durable, more competitive or mentally tougher? is he better at finding the sof spots in zones? something else?


personally, i don't see any tools in fitzgerald's bag that marshall doesn't have. . . other than the fact that he's been in the league two more years, and is more polished, mature and consistent. . . and he has an experienced, veteran QB with a league MVP to his name throwing him the ball, instead of a very talented up-and-comer. . . if fitz is more reliable right now, it's only to be expected-- he's a former top-ten pick with two more years of professional experience. . . but i don't see a single thing that he does that marshall isn't capable of. . .

[Italianmobstr7]

Thank you. They aren't saying that people think he's great and he's not, they are saying that he is really good, but people already think he's great and he's not living up to that hype just yet. Once he learns how to use his body better and quits dropping the damn ball, he'll be up there again. He needs to quit his shit too. I'm a big fan of class, and when I saw the highlight of him reaching in his pants to pull out that glove, I just wanted to scream. I'm glad Stokely and Scheffler were there to stop him. He'll grow up some day...

You can be a great WR and celebrate....TO and Chad Johnson do it all the time. So does Randy Moss. You're a fan of class, but Brandon Marshall ISN'T ROD SMITH. He's his own player, and he's young and brash, and loud mouthed and he can back it all up. That may not be the way you prefer it, but that's the way it is. Hope you get used to it. Marshall will be a Bronco for a long time coming.

[weazel]

oh no, this is terrible news! :rolleyes:

[MHCBill]

And we're 5-4...thus the over-rated. I don't think its that hard to figure out why they are on that list. That is the national perception. Again, sorry it pisses you off so much...
Based on that logic then Kerry Collins is better than Jay Cutler... butt munch.

[MOtorboat]

Based on that logic then Kerry Collins is better than Jay Cutler... butt munch.

No...no he's not. Although, yes, he is leading 8-0 team, whereas Cutler is leading a 5-4 team.

I think you fail to understand what over-rated means as well. We are 5-4. Cutler is one of the best quarterbacks in the league. The record says he's overrated.

Again, this is NOT a question of who is better. This is an over-rated list. And both of our players, at this point in the season, are over-rated.

[WARHORSE]

Of course, in order to see if this guy is dumb, we would have to ask him to rank the players over Cutler and Marshall.


Im sure hed look stupid.

[BeefStew25]

No...no he's not. Although, yes, he is leading 8-0 team, whereas Cutler is leading a 5-4 team.

I think you fail to understand what over-rated means as well. We are 5-4. Cutler is one of the best quarterbacks in the league. The record says he's overrated.

Again, this is NOT a question of who is better. This is an over-rated list. And both of our players, at this point in the season, are over-rated.

I want Trent Dilfer in...he has a ring, Willow.

[MOtorboat]

Of course, in order to see if this guy is dumb, we would have to ask him to rank the players over Cutler and Marshall.


Im sure hed look stupid.

lol...a bunch of people on this web site do not understand the concept of over-rated...

[MOtorboat]

I want Trent Dilfer in...he has a ring, Willow.

One more than Jake Plummer and Jay Cutler, eh?

[BeefStew25]

One more than Jake Plummer and Jay Cutler, eh?

Yeah, so that means he is better.

And Marino sucks.

[Superchop 7]

Whatever.

Adversity.

Thrive on it.

Live for it.......love it.......let it define you.


Then........beat it.......to death.

Stand tall in the mirror.

[NameUsedBefore]

Whatever.

Adversity.

Thrive on it.

Live for it.......love it.......let it define you.


Then........beat it.......to death.

Stand tall in the mirror.

And gyrate.

[Northman]

Jay Cutler 211 Completions 1st in the league, 342 attempts 1st in the league, 61.7 % completion percentage, 2,616 yards 1st in the league, 18 TD's 2nd in the league. He's thrown 11 interceptions which is 2nd worst in the league.

Brandon Marshall 57 Rec 3rd in the league, 714 yds 5th in the league, 4 TD's 4th in the league. All of this while being held to 2 catches against Miami (1 drop) and not even playing in the first game of the season. So him being considered the best or a top 5 WR isn't out of the question and is not overrating him. TO drops passes all the damn time. Braylon Edwards leads the league in dropped passes since he joined the league, do you think he's overrated too? What does running his mouth have to do with anything? Running his mouth doesn't make him a worse receiver. Chad Johnson and TO talk all the time, and they're 2 of the best. We're talking about on field play, not their off the field actions or words.

You can sit there and say I'm wearing orange tinted glasses, but the stats are facts. Marshall probably has 5 or 6 drops all year. Who gives a rats ass. Every WR drops passes and every qb makes mistakes. I don't think that anyone has rated Cutler high enough to be overrated. Marshall is talked about LIKE HE SHOULD BE for being one of the best at his position. Cutler has made some stupid throws, and some bad decisions, but he's also made some great throws, and great decisions. Marshall may drop some passes. But he makes up for them with all of the great plays that he makes. Can you honestly name 5 qb's better than Cutler playing this year, and 5 wr's better than Marshall? I can think of some guys that are close, but I couldn't see 5 wr's being better than either Cutler or Marshall, and the stats prove it.


Stats never tell the whole story.

[Northman]

Based on that logic then Kerry Collins is better than Jay Cutler... butt munch.


Well, he has been to a Super Bowl. Just saying. :lol:

[BeefStew25]

Well, he has been to a Super Bowl. Just saying. :lol:

So has Glenn Cadrez.

[MOtorboat]

So has Glenn Cadrez.

I'm pretty sure Glenn Cadrez was not a quarterback.


Pretty sure.

[Devilspawn]

Jay Cutler 211 Completions 1st in the league, 342 attempts 1st in the league, 61.7 % completion percentage, 2,616 yards 1st in the league, 18 TD's 2nd in the league. He's thrown 11 interceptions which is 2nd worst in the league.
Which means he's throwing a lot, which means he has no run support, which means this season he could end up with 40 TDs and 20 INTs because he'll be throwing. A lot.

[BeefStew25]

I'm pretty sure Glenn Cadrez was not a quarterback.


Pretty sure.

Yeah, but he went to a Super Bowl, willow. So he must have been good.

[Italianmobstr7]

Which means he's throwing a lot, which means he has no run support, which means this season he could end up with 40 TDs and 20 INTs because he'll be throwing. A lot.

And he'll be every bit as good as advertised. Just like he has been. He's made some bad decisions, but he'll get better. On what he's done so far and the talent that he posseses, he'll continue to be one of the best in the league.

[MOtorboat]

And he'll be every bit as good as advertised. Just like he has been. He's made some bad decisions, but he'll get better. On what he's done so far and the talent that he posseses, he'll continue to be one of the best in the league.

But right now...he's over-rated.

[BeefStew25]

Hey willow, ESPN sucks balls.

[MOtorboat]

Hey willow, ESPN sucks balls.

Then quit using it...

[fcspikeit]

Interesting....

Just so I understand this correctly...

He is basing them being overrated because their not as good as their stats say they are. His point is stats don't tell the whole story. Then he goes about proving this using stats?

This guy is an idiot! If the bases of your argument is to discredit the opposing side's argument you can't then turn around and try and use that very same argument to prove your point.

As far as us being 5 - 4 Maybe Manning is overrated because the last time I looked the Colts weren't fairing much better then that. This is a team game! Our overall record don't show the worth of any one player on our team.

[fcspikeit]

As far as Cutler is concerned, You have to be rated high to be overrated. The only thing I have seen that is rating him high is his stats.

Who even rated Cutler in the top 5 QB's at the start of the year? If your not even rated in the top 5 QB's, how and the hell could you possibly be one of the top 5 overrated players in the entire NFL?

[Lonestar]

They're regressing in the stupid numbers, like YPA, and Passer rating. As long as they are winning, that's what matters.


Definitely not Overrated.

I'm sure this article was written before last nights game and they both had sucked the past 4 ot out the last 5 games.

Guys the world doth not rotate around the broncos..

There are 31 other teams out there these folks, need to cover and watch..

Everyone takes this crap like the world will end if someone doe snot gush over Jay and Brandon or any of the other broncos..

Not pointing this at you my friend but some folks need to get a life..

[MasterShake]

I'm sure this article was written before last nights game and they both had sucked the past 4 ot out the last 5 games.

Guys the world doth not rotate around the broncos..

There are 31 other teams out there these folks, need to cover and watch..

Everyone takes this crap like the world will end if someone doe snot gush over Jay and Brandon or any of the other broncos..

Not pointing this at you my friend but some folks need to get a life..

I agree..31 other teams and somehow 2 Broncos make the list? MY PRECIOUS BRONCOS ARE BETTER THAN THAT OVERRATED FAVRE! ;)

[Lonestar]

I agree..31 other teams and somehow 2 Broncos make the list? MY PRECIOUS BRONCOS ARE BETTER THAN THAT OVERRATED FAVRE! ;)


I think you missed the first sentence also..

[MasterShake]

I think you missed the first sentence also..

No, I saw it. Just blinded by my love for the Broncos.

[Lonestar]

No, I saw it. Just blinded by my love for the Broncos.


at least you'll admit it :laugh::laugh:


got your MHS need to get my post count up.. :salute::laugh:

[DenBronx]

regarding marshall, is the an UNDER-RATED list?

because if theres any rated list that he belongs on it's that one nubs!

[Italianmobstr7]

I'm sure this article was written before last nights game and they both had sucked the past 4 ot out the last 5 games.

Guys the world doth not rotate around the broncos..

There are 31 other teams out there these folks, need to cover and watch..

Everyone takes this crap like the world will end if someone doe snot gush over Jay and Brandon or any of the other broncos..

Not pointing this at you my friend but some folks need to get a life..

I don't care if they don't "gush" over our players. But to say that we have 2 of the 5 most overrated players in the entire league is disrespectful! It's a slap in the face to Culter and Marshall. I wouldn't put either player in the top 5 of overrated players. You want some overrated players? Deangelo Hall....Antonio Cromartie...Tony Romo....Jeremy Shockey, Vernon Davis, Shaun Phillips...those are overrated players. Players thought to be good, who aren't really as good as they're made out to seem. Cutler and Marshall are not in that boat. Nowhere near it.

[Medford Bronco]

I'd take Larry Fitzgerald over Marshall with out even thinking about it. Fitz is a man among boys on the football field.

I would also take his teammate Boldin as well over Marshall

the best pair of WR in the league Bar None

[Lonestar]

I don't care if they don't "gush" over our players. But to say that we have 2 of the 5 most overrated players in the entire league is disrespectful! It's a slap in the face to Culter and Marshall. I wouldn't put either player in the top 5 of overrated players. You want some overrated players? Deangelo Hall....Antonio Cromartie...Tony Romo....Jeremy Shockey, Vernon Davis, Shaun Phillips...those are overrated players. Players thought to be good, who aren't really as good as they're made out to seem. Cutler and Marshall are not in that boat. Nowhere near it.

They were super studs in the first few weeks since then they have sucked it up.. thus the reason PRIOR to last night game they were over rated..

Almost everyone on here prior to the fourth quarter of the game last night felt much the same way as the writer did..

It SHOULD have been SLAP in the face to these TWO.. the way they have played.. weeks 4-7.75

Had this article been written after the game last night, perhaps you would have a leg to whine on..

[fcspikeit]

They were super studs in the first few weeks since then they have sucked it up.. thus the reason PRIOR to last night game they were over rated..

Almost everyone on here prior to the fourth quarter of the game last night felt much the same way as the writer did..

It SHOULD have been SLAP in the face to these TWO.. the way they have played.. weeks 4-7.75

Had this article been written after the game last night, perhaps you would have a leg to whine on..


By "super studs" I assume you mean better then the rest of the league at their respected positions?

By "sucking it up" I assume you mean the opposite? Why, because they didn't play as well as they had the first 3 weeks? Your saying they set the bar so high with the first three games that beings they played like the rest of the league they sucked it up? How many QB's are in the top 5 JR? How many WR's are in the top 5? Knowing that, would you really call not being Super studs sucking it up?

Except for maybe a few here, was anyone saying they were the best WR and QB in the league after the first 3 games? , I didn't see that. So again, How could they be overrated when they weren't rated that high to begin with? Unless this guy is only saying Bronco fans have them overrated. In that case why pick on the Broncos fans. What fan doesn't have their favorite players overrated?

This whole thing is dumb. The stats are what they are. Sure they don't tell the whole story. But I got news for this loser, the same lying stats that have Cutler and Marshall where they are also have "every" other player where they are. So why call out 2 Broncos? Everyone knows we could find at least one bad stat for every player in the league. What does that prove, that stats don't tell the whole story. Just like the stats he used to prove Cutler and Marshall is overrated. They don't tell the whole story

[shank]

how can we have 2 players on the overrated list when NO ONE is picking us to win the last few weeks? this article is tarded.

despite all the falters, cutler is still one of the best young QBs and marshall is still one of the league's most dominant receivers. even if he's dropping passes, the other team is spending a full week gameplanning to stop him :coffee:

i'll spend tonight praying that our upcoming opponents read this article and don't double and triple team marshall in the next few weeks. then we'll see how legit this article is :peeshaw:

[JKcatch724]

I really think you're failing to grasp the whole idea of "over-rated.'

Over-rated is, and especially in this case, not being quite as good as your stats indicate...

No, dude. Overrated is when you aren't as good as the HYPE. And I can name an assload of players that fit that bill that aren't named Cutler or Marshall.

Stats usually tell the story. Cutty and Marshall are in the TOP five of nearly every category. So go ahead and tell ne how that's overrated when they are in their third year.

[broncosinindy]

If Cutler continues to make dumb mistakes and Marshall continues to drop passes and run his mouth, yeah, I do believe they are overrated. You may think its crap, because you've got orange and blue glasses on. Like it or not, but that's the view nationally of these players. I'm sorry you get so pissed off when you hear that.



YAC is a number that is important to me. and well marshall is near the tops in the leauge. 7.1 is possession numbers. and since our lack of a great running game is evident. we put the ball in his hands to move the chains and continue drives. Dont put a whole lot of stock in it Royal is one of our deep threats. especially since we have been with out Scheffler who is key to this offense. Dropped balls is a concern of mine. How many does he have this year. and what is that rank?

[broncophan]

I really don't care about stats...or under or overrated........although I have started Cutler all year on my fantasy team...:D

I do care about wins and losses though......and Cutler has led his team to more losses than wins thus far in his short career.........anyone who expected anything more than what he has done so far..... is dreamin'....

Stats are meaningless.......wins and losses tell the whole story....

[underrated29]

i am surprised no one has mentioned the fact that marshall has been DOUBLE AND TRIPLE TEAMED. For the majority of his plays.

Very rarly do i see him in single coverage anymore. Its surprising his yards are as high as they are.

The short passes are the only way marshall can get balls, because he is one on one for the first 7 yards or so until the saftey or second defender comes over to double team him.

Last year, and the first few games this year, we saw what brandon will do to single coverage. HE WILL DESTROY IT. No one can cover him 1 on 1! So teams saw that and made sure they doubled or tripled him up to make sure he doesnt take over the game like he has.

Thats not overrated. Thats respect. If he was 1 on 1 and wasnt dominating then he would be overrated, but double and triple teamed not even close.

[fcspikeit]

I really don't care about stats...or under or overrated........although I have started Cutler all year on my fantasy team...:D

I do care about wins and losses though......and Cutler has led his team to more losses than wins thus far in his short career.........anyone who expected anything more than what he has done so far..... is dreamin'....

Stats are meaningless.......wins and losses tell the whole story....

No matter how you slice it, this just isn't right. I believe Vince Young has a better over all winning % then Carry Collins. Does that mean he should be starting instead of Collins? It is a team game, Wins and losses barely figure in when your talking about the skill level of any "one" player.

[broncophan]

No matter how you slice it, this just isn't right. I believe Vince Young has a better over all winning % then Carry Collins. Does that mean he should be starting instead of Collins? It is a team game, Wins and losses barely figure in when your talking about the skill level of any "one" player.

Sure.....it's a team game.....

Kerry Collins has been a good qb over the years.....personal problems aside...and I don't think he has had outstanding stats over his career....but imo has been a good leader on the field.Vince Young has loads of talent....but is not a leader...imo

While I don't think skill level figures in of any one player.....I do believe the qb, in most cases needs to have the "intangible" knack of being a leader.

IMO....I think in time Cutler will get that......in the meantime....I will keep watching his numbers pile up on my fantasy team....although his bad int's some weeks does not help.:confused:

We need alot of talent around Cutler now as he learns.....we don't have a running game......and he has to throw 40- 50 times a game...and yea......I know we need a defense too.

When Cutler gets experience....imo....we just need decent players around Cutler.....and he will make them better......and will not have to throw 40-50 times a game.

Roethlisberger is the best example I can think of.....without looking.....I don't think his stats have been outstanding over his few years....but has been a good leader....and led his team to alot of wins than losses.....without extraordinary talent imo.......and without alot of int's.

[Northman]

Sure.....it's a team game.....

Kerry Collins has been a good qb over the years.....personal problems aside...and I don't think he has had outstanding stats over his career....but imo has been a good leader on the field.Vince Young has loads of talent....but is not a leader...imo

While I don't think skill level figures in of any one player.....I do believe the qb, in most cases needs to have the "intangible" knack of being a leader.

IMO....I think in time Cutler will get that......in the meantime....I will keep watching his numbers pile up on my fantasy team....although his bad int's some weeks does not help.:confused:

We need alot of talent around Cutler now as he learns.....we don't have a running game......and he has to throw 40- 50 times a game...and yea......I know we need a defense too.

When Cutler gets experience....imo....we just need decent players around Cutler.....and he will make them better......and will not have to throw 40-50 times a game.

Roethlisberger is the best example I can think of.....without looking.....I don't think his stats have been outstanding over his few years....but has been a good leader....and led his team to alot of wins than losses.....without extraordinary talent imo.......and without alot of int's.


All very true.

[Cugel]

If Cutler continues to make dumb mistakes and Marshall continues to drop passes and run his mouth, yeah, I do believe they are overrated. You may think its crap, because you've got orange and blue glasses on. Like it or not, but that's the view nationally of these players. I'm sorry you get so pissed off when you hear that.

Whether it's the view nationally or not it's still CRAP!

The proof that this guy is an idiot is his analysis of Abraham. He goes over every tackle he had a sack against and concludes "this tackle sucked" so somehow it doesn't count that he has 8 sacks! Well, you could do that for every player in the league. The RB shouldn't get credit for rushing for 190 yards because the defense sucked. The WR shouldn't get credit for catching 12 passes in a game because the starting DB was injured and his backup was torched all game long.

So what? This is football. You play with whoever you've got and take your lumps. And you can't put asterisks against every player's performance. Part of the games WILL be played against less than the best teams, get used to it!

I'm calling BULL-SHIT on the entire article!

As far as Cutler, he has thrown more interceptions because he's the entire offense right now. Denver's offense is SUPPOSED to rely on a strong running game. Only most of the RBs have been injured and the O-line has sucked at run-blocking at times.

That leaves Cutler having to make plays in order to win games. Sometimes he's had a bad game, like he did against Jacksonville and throws the early pick. Other times he does well, as he did against the Browns throwing for 3 TDs and 477 yards. That's a GOOD performance which undercuts the entire point of the article, that Cutler's play has declined as the season progressed. That WAS true up till the last game. Now it's not. :coffee:

[Bronco9798]

Just get to the playoffs and win, or lose, some playoff games. Then we'll know just how over-rated or under-rated anybody is on this football team. Anybody can put up big numbers every week depending on the quality of the opponent. It's when you get to the playoffs against the better teams that you are rated. When you put up big numbers against the worse teams in the league, it only speaks of what you should be doing and what you are expected to do. When you suck against the good teams, then you are what you are.

[Cugel]

BTW: This idiot goes on and on about Cutler throwing too many interceptions. Know who is leading the league in throwing the least interceptions?

1. Jason Campbell, Was - 2
2. Jeff Garcia, TB - 3
3. Kerry Collins, TEN - 3
4. Tyler Thigpen, KC - 4.
5.JaMarcus Russell, OAK -- 5

Color me NOT IMPRESSED by that crew of has-beens and losers! All of them (except Jason Campbell and Russell (who haven't been around long enough) have bounced around the league and are the kind of journeyman QB teams get and hope for the best IF they don't have a franchise QB).

JaMarcus Russell has shown nothing to date. Campbell might become a decent QB at some point, he's having a good season and the Redskins are playing well. But, he's not in a situation where he has to be the entire offense because his team has no rushing attack and defenses can line up to stop him and know that they will win.

Not one of them will get any consideration for the Pro-Bowl. Cutler will.

[OrangeHoof]

I suppose it depends on whether you are looking at Cutler and Marshall from a fantasy perspective or an NFL fan perspective. Frankly, I don't think either one is overrated. You need to look at their circumstances where Denver no longer has a running game, forcing Cutler to throw more than he should and Marshall to endure defenses who need not worry about defending the run.

Through injuries, we've lost the balance in our offense and that is why both Cutler and Marshall may appear to be underachieving. When an offense can't run and can only throw, it is at a major disadvantage.

[Cugel]

Just get to the playoffs and win, or lose, some playoff games. Then we'll know just how over-rated or under-rated anybody is on this football team. Anybody can put up big numbers every week depending on the quality of the opponent. It's when you get to the playoffs against the better teams that you are rated. When you put up big numbers against the worse teams in the league, it only speaks of what you should be doing and what you are expected to do. When you suck against the good teams, then you are what you are.

No, we won't! Unless you have a decent defense and your team can run the ball, the other team just lines up to stop the QB. They rush the passer and drop 7 or 8 defensive backs into coverage trying for the interception.

In short, the Broncos are one-dimensional, and the one thing that's keeping them in games is Cutler!

Without him, they wouldn't win 1 game!

As the Thursday Night football broadcasters put it: "Denver's defense is just horrible right now. Horrible."

No argument. They were decidedly bad even when healthy. Now that they're decimated by injuries, they are about the worst in the league.

Watch and see Brady Quinn revert to being a raw rookie QB making a lot of mistakes and not doing so well, once he no longer has the feeble Broncos defense to make him look good!

Naturally, the Broncos will have NO HOPE in the Playoffs if they ever get there. Right now they are a good bet to win 8 or 9 games. That might be enough in the feeble AFC West, but against a good team in the playoffs?

Not a chance! They'd need to be able to run the ball and stop someone from running on them, and they can do neither.

That's not Cutler's fault! He has to totally carry the team and sometimes that's not going to work.

[MOtorboat]

BTW: This idiot goes on and on about Cutler throwing too many interceptions. Know who is leading the league in throwing the least interceptions?

1. Jason Campbell, Was - 2
2. Jeff Garcia, TB - 3
3. Kerry Collins, TEN - 3
4. Tyler Thigpen, KC - 4.
5.JaMarcus Russell, OAK -- 5

Color me NOT IMPRESSED by that crew of has-beens and losers! All of them (except Jason Campbell and Russell (who haven't been around long enough) have bounced around the league and are the kind of journeyman QB teams get and hope for the best IF they don't have a franchise QB).

JaMarcus Russell has shown nothing to date. Campbell might become a decent QB at some point, he's having a good season and the Redskins are playing well. But, he's not in a situation where he has to be the entire offense because his team has no rushing attack and defenses can line up to stop him and know that they will win.

Not one of them will get any consideration for the Pro-Bowl. Cutler will.

So you're going to use that list as reasoning as to why its OK for Cutler to make stupid mistakes?

[JKcatch724]

So you're going to use that list as reasoning as to why its OK for Cutler to make stupid mistakes?

Overrated QBs don't do what Cutler did Thursday night. Plain and simple. He won that game.

[MOtorboat]

Overrated QBs don't do what Cutler did Thursday night. Plain and simple. He won that game.

They certainly could...

We'll see what he does next week...because he's also lost several games this season...like the week before against Miami...

[Italianmobstr7]

They certainly could...

We'll see what he does next week...because he's also lost several games this season...like the week before against Miami...

You can't blame 1 player for a win or a loss. His 3 interceptions hurt us, but we were still in the game until the dolphins last drive. That's how good Jay is. 1 dimensional, 14 yards rushing against the Dolphins and we're in the game until the last couple of minutes. Against the Browns, one dimensional almost 3 quarters of the game, and he throws for 447 yards and 3 tds. The 1 pick wasn't his fault. So he didn't make the best decisions or the right decision on every throw, but he still helped LEAD us to a win. I don't know what you have against Jay, but you need to get off of your bashing of him. Jay makes some bad plays, but he makes a lot more good ones.

[MOtorboat]

You can't blame 1 player for a win or a loss. His 3 interceptions hurt us, but we were still in the game until the dolphins last drive. That's how good Jay is. 1 dimensional, 14 yards rushing against the Dolphins and we're in the game until the last couple of minutes. Against the Browns, one dimensional almost 3 quarters of the game, and he throws for 447 yards and 3 tds. The 1 pick wasn't his fault. So he didn't make the best decisions or the right decision on every throw, but he still helped LEAD us to a win. I don't know what you have against Jay, but you need to get off of your bashing of him. Jay makes some bad plays, but he makes a lot more good ones.

I'm not bashing him, nor am I swinging from his nuts.

I'm just pointing out that I see where the writer is coming from. Unfortunately for those of us who aren't complete homers, they can't understand that.

I'm just as big of a Cutler fan as anyone here...but I also don't sugar coat what he does.

Don't make this personal mobstr.

[broncobryce]

A lot of writers are just like some of the "fans". Have a couple bad games and they are the worst player in the league. A couple good games and they are the greatest player in the history of the NFL. That's the world we live in with internet and highlights on demand. And remember what opinions are like.

[JKcatch724]

I'm not bashing him, nor am I swinging from his nuts.

I'm just pointing out that I see where the writer is coming from. Unfortunately for those of us who aren't complete homers, they can't understand that.

I'm just as big of a Cutler fan as anyone here...but I also don't sugar coat what he does.

Don't make this personal mobstr.

Nobody's saying Cutler isn't flawless... He's in his third year and not yet in his prime. There are going to be mistakes and bad decisions. That's why you can't call him overrated at this point. If he's still performing like this in a few years, I could see that. But he has all the makings of a stud QB for years to come.

[BeefStew25]

I'm not bashing him, nor am I swinging from his nuts.

I'm just pointing out that I see where the writer is coming from. Unfortunately for those of us who aren't complete homers, they can't understand that.

I'm just as big of a Cutler fan as anyone here...but I also don't sugar coat what he does.

Don't make this personal mobstr.

If ESPN writes it, it must be true.

[Lonestar]

Nobody's saying Cutler isn't flawless... He's in his third year and not yet in his prime. There are going to be mistakes and bad decisions. That's why you can't call him overrated at this point. If he's still performing like this in a few years, I could see that. But he has all the makings of a stud QB for years to come.


Here is the rub at the time of the article he was not playing up to his "hype"..

Not 3 years from now or while he is in his prime at that moment..


WE ALL NEED TO Stop looking at what he did in just this last game and see what they are seeing over the range of games..

[AgentOrange]

Two of the Broncos are in the Top 5 Overrated? Are you kidding me? Let me do a little math here...53 man roster and 32 teams. That's 1,696 players. And we have two of the five?!? Beside the fact that this idiot's reasoning is incredibly flawed, I can't believe anyone who calls themselves a Broncos fan and has watched more than three games this season would buy this load of crap.

Overrated is writing this BS and calling them self a sports analyst.

[JKcatch724]

Here is the rub at the time of the article he was not playing up to his "hype"..

Not 3 years from now or while he is in his prime at that moment..


WE ALL NEED TO Stop looking at what he did in just this last game and see what they are seeing over the range of games..

All the hype I've seen up to this point is along the lines of "this guy is well on his way to being an elite quarterback". And he is.

I'd say he's living up to his "hype" a lot more than Leinart or Young.

[MOtorboat]

If ESPN writes it, it must be true.

Great point Beef.

[Lonestar]

All the hype I've seen up to this point is along the lines of "this guy is well on his way to being an elite quarterback". And he is.

I'd say he's living up to his "hype" a lot more than Leinart or Young.

Lets keep it between the lines OK

the article did not mention lienthart or young.. and he has been hyped as one to the great young QBs this year...


Let me say this one more time..

At the time they wrote the article (prior to the Thursday night game) he was stinking it up.. THUS overrated..

pretty simple if you take your homer glasses off and only look at the part in red above..

[deacon]

This is garbage. Cutler and Marshall are both suffering because of a lack of any running game. It's impossible to be effective in Denver's passing game when you can't run the ball.

[JKcatch724]

Lets keep it between the lines OK

the article did not mention lienthart or young.. and he has been hyped as one to the great young QBs this year...


Let me say this one more time..

At the time they wrote the article (prior to the Thursday night game) he was stinking it up.. THUS overrated..

pretty simple if you take your homer glasses off and only look at the part in red above..

:rolleyes:

"The lines" is everyone in the league, dude. To say Cutler is in the TOP FIVE overrated players in the league is just retarded. Go ahead and call me a homer, but it's true.

If you're talking about the big picture (not including Thursday night's game, which pretty much invalidates this article) then you have to account for the first three games, too, in which Cutler completely dominated.

Is he a perfect quarterback? No. Does he make some bonehead decisions? Yes. Is he overrated? Hell no. Every quarterback has bad games.

[fcspikeit]

Lets keep it between the lines OK

the article did not mention lienthart or young.. and he has been hyped as one to the great young QBs this year...


Let me say this one more time..

At the time they wrote the article (prior to the Thursday night game) he was stinking it up.. THUS overrated..

pretty simple if you take your homer glasses off and only look at the part in red above..

Jr, even before Thursday, their #'s had them ranked in the top 5. So how were they overrated? were they expected to be doing better? If not then there's just no way they could be overrated.

Besides that, both are responcible for each others #s. How could both be overrated? It's like saying Montana was overrated because he played with Rice and Rice made him look good. Agree with that or not at least there is an argument there. If that same person now turns and says Rice is overrated he is an idiot! Both can't be overrated.

[G_Money]

Jr, even before Thursday, their #'s had them ranked in the top 5. So how were they overrated? were they expected to be doing better? If not then there's just no way they could be overrated.

Besides that, both are responcible for each others #s. How could both be overrated? It's like saying Montana was overrated because he played with Rice and Rice made him look good. Agree with that or not at least there is an argument there. If that same person now turns and says Rice is overrated he is an idiot! Both can't be overrated.

The article was written from the POV that there are players who put up monster stats through half a season, but can't maintain those stats. They're anomalous performances. "Lucky," if you will. That with a larger sample size the quality of the person's stats will decline, so while Cutler and Marshall look like Pro Bowlers through 8 weeks they won't after 16 weeks.

As I said, that depends on a lot of factors, and his analysis of the factors that make Marshall and Cutler look likely to regress back to the mean in the 2nd half I view as...unscientific.

I'm not arguing with his ypc or yac or decision-badness numbers. Those are just numbers. But he's projecting the badness numbers to remain constant, and therefore the goodness numbers to fall back in line with a more reasonable projection for someone with those badness numbers.

But if one or the other of them cleans up their act, both will benefit. Cutler and Marshall, great as they have been this year, are dragging each other down. He finds that indicative of worse numbers to come.

I find that a scary indicator that Cutler and Marshall - who are both in line for Pro Bowl seasons as it is - have not yet come close to what they CAN be together.

He calls that over-rated.

Maybe they are, if Marshall keeps getting tackled by triple-teams and dropping passes and running the wrong routes, and Cutler keeps throwing it to the wrong guy and having horrible first quarters that make him pout the rest of the game.

I would call it something else. A diamond in the rough, street-rat, a diamond in the rough.

And they're already a pair of pretty giant, shiny stones already. The league should be absolutely terrified of what they can be if properly polished.

That's what I want to see the rest of this year. Screw wins and losses. Polishing our offensive gems and getting the gears of the monster scoring machine we should soon have in finely tuned working order is the priority.

Fix the run game as much as possible with our battered backfield. If Hillis can give me a Droughns-like season I'm totally satisfied.

Get the wides and TEs healthy and running the correct routes.

Get Cutler to work his reads and throw the ball away if the play isn't there.

Keep the OL on course to be a pass-protecting wall of destruction while learning how to make holes for whatever poor soul is carrying the rock for us this week.

And then in a year KC can write another article where he calls himself an idiot for putting the league's best QB/WR tandem on his top 5 over-rated list.

That's all I want.

Hell, I hope Cutler and Marshall hang this article in their lockers. They're making mistakes, he points them out. I think his conclusions about those mistakes are wrong, but only they can prove it on the field.

Let em.

~G

[SR]

I have a man crush on G Money.

[JKcatch724]

LOL. I don't think the writer put as much thought into it as G.

Can we nominate you to take the place of tools like these?

[fcspikeit]

The article was written from the POV that there are players who put up monster stats through half a season, but can't maintain those stats. They're anomalous performances. "Lucky," if you will. That with a larger sample size the quality of the person's stats will decline, so while Cutler and Marshall look like Pro Bowlers through 8 weeks they won't after 16 weeks.

As I said, that depends on a lot of factors, and his analysis of the factors that make Marshall and Cutler look likely to regress back to the mean in the 2nd half I view as...unscientific.

By that then Brady and Moss where over-rated last year because they didn't maintain their first half #'s throughout the season. So why didn't he have them on his top 5 overrated list last year? A spade is a spade. Yet I highly doubt all those here who are agreeing with this would agree Brady and Moss should be on that list.




I'm not arguing with his ypc or yac or decision-badness numbers. Those are just numbers. But he's projecting the badness numbers to remain constant, and therefore the goodness numbers to fall back in line with a more reasonable projection for someone with those badness numbers.

But if one or the other of them cleans up their act, both will benefit. Cutler and Marshall, great as they have been this year, are dragging each other down. He finds that indicative of worse numbers to come.

I find that a scary indicator that Cutler and Marshall - who are both in line for Pro Bowl seasons as it is - have not yet come close to what they CAN be together.

He calls that over-rated.

Maybe they are, if Marshall keeps getting tackled by triple-teams and dropping passes and running the wrong routes, and Cutler keeps throwing it to the wrong guy and having horrible first quarters that make him pout the rest of the game.

I would call it something else. A diamond in the rough, street-rat, a diamond in the rough.

And they're already a pair of pretty giant, shiny stones already. The league should be absolutely terrified of what they can be if properly polished.

That's what I want to see the rest of this year. Screw wins and losses. Polishing our offensive gems and getting the gears of the monster scoring machine we should soon have in finely tuned working order is the priority.

Fix the run game as much as possible with our battered backfield. If Hillis can give me a Droughns-like season I'm totally satisfied.

Get the wides and TEs healthy and running the correct routes.

Get Cutler to work his reads and throw the ball away if the play isn't there.

Keep the OL on course to be a pass-protecting wall of destruction while learning how to make holes for whatever poor soul is carrying the rock for us this week.

And then in a year KC can write another article where he calls himself an idiot for putting the league's best QB/WR tandem on his top 5 over-rated list.

That's all I want.

Hell, I hope Cutler and Marshall hang this article in their lockers. They're making mistakes, he points them out. I think his conclusions about those mistakes are wrong, but only they can prove it on the field.

Let em.

~G


G, as always, your perspective is for lack of a better word enlightening, if nothing else thought provoking.

In regards to my second highlighted statement, what do you think the result of Cutler throwing more balls away be in terms of wins, loses,TD's and INT's? The reason I ask is because we have won games off Cutler taking a chance and throwing balls where logic says he shouldn't be throwing. We have also lost a couple from the same thing. I guess what I'm asking is if Cutler was taking the Trent Dilfer approach at QB, would we be better or worse for it?

Conservative play from the QB position can work in this league, Dilfer among others has proven that. But we don't have the tools on this team for that to work. For instance, we have no defense and our running game isn't good enough to control the clock. All that = we have to make something happen throwing the football. If we can't we will lose. It's like playing from behind, the pressure is on. You have to take chances, even when the play isn't there you don't have the luxury of punting and living for another day so to speak. We are asking Cutler to go out and "make" plays or we all know we can't win, then we turn and say he's taking to many chances with the football. It's a fine line, one I fear he will never master because it's impossible.

Elway always got flack for the same thing, then the next week he would make the same throw into double coverage and be a hero for winning the game. He learned to be more conservative, but only after he had a good enough team to win without him having to force the ball. In other wards, the risk reword was such it made more sense to not force the ball. Like us going for 2 against the Bolts, With our D it only made sense to go for 2. That gave us the best chance to win.

So the question should be, does Cutler taking chances give us the best chance to win with the team we have? I know you would rather him grow now as a QB and learn to play for the day when we have a good enough team he wont have to take as many chances. But he is trying to win now. I believe him taking chances is the only chance we have of winning now. Therefore I am willing to overlook the INT's because I know, with a drop off in the INT column, there would surly be a drop off in the TD column.

Here is another thing, Big Ben came into the year rated higher then Cutler. He only threw 3 INT's his first 6 games, He has thrown 8 in the last 3, (6 in his last 2 before this article was wrote) Keeping in mind, he is playing with one of the top running teams and Pitt also has the # 1 rated defenses. I'm not saying I feel he is overrated, Yet using this guys factoring #'s, he should be on the list ahead of Cutler.

[Retired_Member_001]

I have a man crush on G Money.

Get in line.

I've had my crush longer.

[broncofaninfla]

No doubt this article was written by somebody who hates Denver. I can think of 20 other players more deserving of being over rated in this league.

[CoachChaz]

How does Eli Manning not top this list?

[roomemp]

This article is just plain dumb. Seriously. Jerod Mayo is a frickin rookie for gods sake. He only had 8 games under his belt when this article was written. As for Cutler and Marshall. I think if you ask any GM in the NFL they would be more than happy to have these two players on their roster. Funny that the writer of this article doesn't include any of the super hyped teams.......The Colts, Chargers Cowboys. ALl of which are having sub par seasons at best

[SR]

How does Eli Manning not top this list?

Because he won a Super Bowl...

[CoachChaz]

Because he won a Super Bowl...

By all means...let's put Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner, Mark Rypien and Trent Dilfer in the HOF