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View Full Version : Todd Haley thinks Josh McDaniels was cheating.



turftoad
07-13-2011, 06:42 PM
Haley, per Colquitt, thought McDaniels was cheating.

“I don’t know if I can answer that within the locker room, but I know that it has something to do with the Spygate, the videotaping,” Colquitt said. “All the stuff like that. And I think that Haley was like, ‘Listen, based on that game I can tell what you are doing, and you are cheating.’ . . .

“I think it was just a culmination of rumors and [McDaniels] had been involved in that in New England possibly before, and so Todd was just kind of saying, ‘Look, with the game plan we had and what you guys already knew we were gonna do, this is’ . . . basically saying it was ‘bush, bush league.’”



Read the rest here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/13/chiefs-punter-says-todd-haley-thinks-josh-mcdaniels-was-cheating/

BroncoStud
07-13-2011, 06:46 PM
It's possible. It's also possible that Todd's offense was so predictable my 5 year old could have cued up defenses to stop it that day. Also, their defense didn't show up - AT ALL.

I don't doubt that McDouche cheated in some way though. He's a parasite.

robert ethan
07-13-2011, 06:47 PM
In that incident. He couldn't face up to getting his ass handed to him. Jerk.

BeefStew25
07-13-2011, 06:49 PM
In the end, Haley was proved right. And that is so hugely sad.

NightTerror218
07-13-2011, 06:53 PM
more rumors and speculations...... damn you lockout

UnderArmour
07-13-2011, 07:07 PM
Cheating? That game? When you get your ass kicked that bad and your team is being dominated by an eventual 4-12 team, it means that you failed to prepare your team as a coach. There was no cheating. The Chiefs have 2 players in their secondary who could play: Flowers and Berry. Orton exploited that just like he had done the year before against the Chiefs when they eventually ran away with it in the 4th.

I don't know how anyone who watched that game or knows anything at all about the Chiefs roster could say that we cheated to win that game. I'm sure Kyle Orton was cheating when he exploited the same mismatches he had done the year before in the Chiefs secondary. I'm sure Brandon Lloyd was cheating when he made those amazing catches. I'm sure Tim Tebow was cheating when he ran the ball in and when he threw one. Jason Hunter? When he picked up that ball and ran it back 75 yards, I'm sure that was cheating too. When our defense keyed in on Jamaal Charles like we did to Chris Johnson? That was cheating too.

Give me a break.

NightTerror218
07-13-2011, 07:09 PM
Cheating? That game? When you get your ass kicked that bad and your team is being dominated by an eventual 4-12 team, it means that you failed to prepare your team as a coach. There was no cheating. The Chiefs have 2 players in their secondary who could play: Flowers and Berry. Orton exploited that just like he had done the year before against the Chiefs when they eventually ran away with it in the 4th.

I don't know how anyone who watched that game or knows anything at all about the Chiefs roster could say that we cheated to win that game. I'm sure Kyle Orton was cheating when he exploited the same mismatches he had done the year before in the Chiefs secondary. I'm sure Brandon Lloyd was cheating when he made those amazing catches. I'm sure Tim Tebow was cheating when he ran the ball in and when he threw one. Jason Hunter? When he picked up that ball and ran it back 75 yards, I'm sure that was cheating too. When our defense keyed in on Jamaal Charles like we did to Chris Johnson? That was cheating too.

Give me a break.


And we saw Bailey shut a certain WR out :D

nevcraw
07-13-2011, 07:22 PM
no surprise the 2 biggest douchebags in football had a spat..

T.K.O.
07-13-2011, 07:27 PM
i do remember thinking it odd that he said"people are talking about you" at the time of the finger pointing incident:confused:

Northman
07-13-2011, 07:29 PM
Considering McD's history, im not shocked and would not be shocked if he was cheating. But thank god the ******** is gone now.

Benetto
07-13-2011, 07:33 PM
Fans should throw VHS tapes at him when he's back in Denver...

Denver Native (Carol)
07-13-2011, 07:34 PM
It's under ticket replay:

http://www.denverssportsstation.com/

Dzone
07-13-2011, 07:40 PM
I liked the Rumor about Hillis getting traded for hitting on Mcdouchebags wife.

dogfish
07-13-2011, 08:45 PM
Todd Haley thinks Josh McDaniels was cheating

so does everyone else. . .

OrangeHoof
07-13-2011, 08:47 PM
Once you get the reputation, it stays with you like a bad odor.

TXBRONC
07-13-2011, 08:58 PM
so does everyone else. . .

Yeah pretty much. :lol:

OrangeHoof
07-13-2011, 09:05 PM
Seems like it's been two years since we fired that smug little punk and Fox hasn't even coached a game with us yet. Man, I'm ready for this lockout to be over!

TXBRONC
07-13-2011, 09:13 PM
Seems like it's been two years since we fired that smug little punk and Fox hasn't even coached a game with us yet. Man, I'm ready for this lockout to be over!

Absolutely. I'm more than ready for the lockout to be over.

zbeg
07-14-2011, 01:55 AM
And we saw Bailey shut a certain WR out :D


Bailey wouldn't even let Dwayne Bowe catch the ball! EVEN WORSE was when Bailey tried to go after the ball that was clearly not intended for him. Hey Champ, you realize that's supposed to go to the other guy, right? What are you doing getting in the way?!

CHEATER.

BroncoWave
07-14-2011, 01:59 AM
Cheating? That game? When you get your ass kicked that bad and your team is being dominated by an eventual 4-12 team, it means that you failed to prepare your team as a coach. There was no cheating. The Chiefs have 2 players in their secondary who could play: Flowers and Berry. Orton exploited that just like he had done the year before against the Chiefs when they eventually ran away with it in the 4th.

I don't know how anyone who watched that game or knows anything at all about the Chiefs roster could say that we cheated to win that game. I'm sure Kyle Orton was cheating when he exploited the same mismatches he had done the year before in the Chiefs secondary. I'm sure Brandon Lloyd was cheating when he made those amazing catches. I'm sure Tim Tebow was cheating when he ran the ball in and when he threw one. Jason Hunter? When he picked up that ball and ran it back 75 yards, I'm sure that was cheating too. When our defense keyed in on Jamaal Charles like we did to Chris Johnson? That was cheating too.

Give me a break.

Don't let logic get in the way of a good Josh McDaniels hate circle-****.

claymore
07-14-2011, 02:22 AM
I know a game McD didnt cheat in. THe Raiders game. :harf:

Northman
07-14-2011, 03:53 AM
lmao

Northman
07-14-2011, 03:54 AM
Don't let logic get in the way of a good Josh McDaniels hate circle-****.

:lol:

Or of course Josh lovefest.

sneakers
07-14-2011, 06:12 AM
At least Josh would shake people's hands.

Juriga72
07-14-2011, 06:51 AM
Way to step out on the branch Todd.....
Lets see....
We hire "Video-gate" Scarneccia boy...
We get caught taping the 49'ers.....
The NFL fines us 50K ( or Mcdummy...)
We fire Video boy..... and we keep losing.

yeah..... no "Proof" what so ever we cheated...

Lonestar
07-14-2011, 09:43 AM
Clearly it is once again it is seen by anyone that hates Josh that anyone that looks at the article logically they are doing a love festival.

When in fact they are making a reasonable about it.

Ravage!!!
07-14-2011, 10:15 AM
Clearly it is once again it is seen by anyone that hates Josh that anyone that looks at the article logically they are doing a love festival.

When in fact they are making a reasonable about it.

Wait....what? :confused:

Dean
07-14-2011, 10:18 AM
Haley, per Colquitt, thought McDaniels was cheating.





So do I, and he must not have been very adept at it.

BroncoWave
07-14-2011, 10:59 AM
:lol:

Or of course Josh lovefest.

I don't "love" McDaniels, I just think the hate for him was, and still is, over the top. And I'm not even mad at Bowlen for firing him. It was the right call, but I still don't think McD is some moron who came here to destroy the Broncos.

TXBRONC
07-14-2011, 12:00 PM
Wait....what? :confused:

I was going to ask if someone could interpret because it sure didn't make any sense to me either.

TXBRONC
07-14-2011, 12:02 PM
So do I, and he must not have been very adept at it.

McDaniels got to sit at the feet of the Grand Master of Cheating for eight years.

Juriga72
07-14-2011, 01:48 PM
McDaniels got to sit at the feet of the Grand Master of Cheating for eight years.

At least MoC WON....

How sad is it when you cheat and STILL lose 21 of 26 games?

Lonestar
07-14-2011, 01:57 PM
I don't "love" McDaniels, I just think the hate for him was, and still is, over the top. And I'm not even mad at Bowlen for firing him. It was the right call, but I still don't think McD is some moron who came here to destroy the Broncos.

amazing that some folks even think that is it not.

a plot of Billies to ruin the one team that seems to have his number..

I think it is more about his being from NE (whom everyone hated) and the shock of Pat hiring a young offensive minded HC instead of Spagnola..

At first I did not like the hire either but studied up on the kid and saw he was going to do all the things I had been advocating for years.. Bigger stronger smarter and faster team and moving away from the ZBS and 4-3 defense.


it made sense to me.. as I figured out that those were big parts of our getting our asses handed to us in the late season and getting them kicked in the playoffs out guys were simply not athletic and big enough to play with the BIG boys when it counted..

rationalfan
07-14-2011, 02:25 PM
gotta admit, this actually makes me like McD more.

GEM
07-14-2011, 02:42 PM
Well, a team he was with was caught for videotaping....again. Something about ethics and morals and once they've been shown to be questionable, you don't just change that overnight. Don't like the stigma, quit getting caught for the deed.

Northman
07-14-2011, 05:46 PM
Well, a team he was with was caught for videotaping....again. Something about ethics and morals and once they've been shown to be questionable, you don't just change that overnight. Don't like the stigma, quit getting caught for the deed.

Shhhhh, dont bring logic into the equation girl......

BroncoWave
07-14-2011, 05:48 PM
Shhhhh, dont bring logic into the equation girl......

No, logic would be noting that it's easy to cheat (like against SF) when both teams are practicing on the same field. During a normal game, when the teams are practicing in different states during the week, it's simply not possible.

Ravage!!!
07-14-2011, 05:51 PM
No, logic would be noting that it's easy to cheat (like against SF) when both teams are practicing on the same field. During a normal game, when the teams are practicing in different states during the week, it's simply not possible.

What? Explain how that makes any sense or separates logic? Is it not cheating because he tried to take advantage of an "easier" opportunity?

weazel
07-14-2011, 05:52 PM
Considering McD's history, im not shocked and would not be shocked if he was cheating. But thank god the ******** is gone now.

what did anyone expect? the guy was taught by the biggest douche in coaching

BroncoWave
07-14-2011, 05:53 PM
What? Explain how that makes any sense or separates logic? Is it not cheating because he tried to take advantage of an "easier" opportunity?

You misunderstood my post. I fully admit what he did against SF was cheating and I don't condone it at all.

My point is that it's highly unlikely that he cheated against the Chiefs seeing as it's impossible to go film their practice when they are across the country at their own private facility.

Ravage!!!
07-14-2011, 05:56 PM
You misunderstood my post. I fully admit what he did against SF was cheating and I don't condone it at all.

My point is that it's highly unlikely that he cheated against the Chiefs seeing as it's impossible to go film their practice when they are across the country at their own private facility.

Ahhhh...gotcha.

Well, there are the pre-
Game walk throughs which is what mcd was busted for taping against San fran.....it is possible to tape those if you try.

zbeg
07-14-2011, 05:57 PM
I don't "love" McDaniels, I just think the hate for him was, and still is, over the top. And I'm not even mad at Bowlen for firing him. It was the right call, but I still don't think McD is some moron who came here to destroy the Broncos.

No doubt. People act as if he isn't qualified to run a high school team. Belichick regarded him as his brightest assistant coach, and while there was no love for Mangini or Crennel, he was pretty outspoken (well, as outspoken as Belichick can get) about McDaniels being a loss to the Patriots when he left.

He was hired to be a coach, and I think he did a reasonable job of doing that. It's when he took over personnel that things got out of hand, and part of the blame goes to Xanders and Ellis/Bowlen for allowing that to happen. McDaniels had a system for a specific type of personnel, and he just never gave himself the talent to succeed with that system.

I never looked at the Broncos and thought, "Man, the players have given up." They played hard until the end of the fourth quarter, but they just didn't have the talent. That indicates to me that the coach is doing something right.

Yeah, he should have been fired - the mini-Spygate thing was a black eye, and I don't know how you gracefully demote him from being a personnel guy to just being a coach, and the record obviously wasn't good because of the lack of talent on the field, which was largely his fault (although Shanahan didn't exactly leave him with the 1985 Bears defense).

A lot of his mistakes came from youth/inexperience, but he's also clearly very smart and talented, and I would bet a reasonable sum of money on him being a successful head coach in the NFL in the next 5-10 years.

And for a season and a half+, we had one of the two coaches in the NFL who actually understand opportunity cost/expected value (anyone who's played poker for any real amount of money can sympathize with my frustration here). Boy, that was nice to see someone who understands something most of the league does not, even though I think it's pretty basic.

BroncoWave
07-14-2011, 05:58 PM
Ahhhh...gotcha.

Well, there are the pre-
Game walk throughs which is what mcd was busted for taping against San fran.....it is possible to tape those if you try.

I suppose. I've read things in the past though saying they really don't reveal much in those. I suppose you could get something from it, but I don't think you can use that as an excuse for getting beat by 20 points.

Ravage!!!
07-14-2011, 06:00 PM
Getting rid of talent is not how. You win in the NFL....mcd didn't understand much at all

Ravage!!!
07-14-2011, 06:02 PM
I suppose. I've read things in the past though saying they really don't reveal much in those. I suppose you could get something from it, but I don't think you can use that as an excuse for getting beat by 20 points.

No. I afgree. But. You could snag alignments and formations they have been practicing all week for you.

I don't like Haley either, so his comments meant nothing to me

BroncoWave
07-14-2011, 06:03 PM
Getting rid of talent is not how. You win in the NFL....mcd didn't understand much at all

Yeah, I'm sure McD has NO idea that you need talent to win in the NFL. :lol:

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Yeah, he did get rid of some talented players, but he also kept several talented players and tried to bring in more.

And other than maybe Hillis, you can make some strong arguments in support of why he got rid of the other players that he did. I'm not going to re-hash those arguments because they have been made on here a million times, but those arguments do exist.

GEM
07-14-2011, 06:05 PM
No, logic would be noting that it's easy to cheat (like against SF) when both teams are practicing on the same field. During a normal game, when the teams are practicing in different states during the week, it's simply not possible.

Logic would be Don't ******* cheat.

BroncoWave
07-14-2011, 06:06 PM
Logic would be Don't ******* cheat.

Obviously. My ONLY point I was making with that post is that it's unlikely that he cheated against KC, at least to the extent he would have been able to against SF.

Canmore
07-14-2011, 06:07 PM
Obviously. My ONLY point I was making with that post is that it's unlikely that he cheated against KC, at least to the extent he would have been able to against SF.

Somehow, I don't find that comforting. :laugh:

Northman
07-14-2011, 06:09 PM
Obviously. My ONLY point I was making with that post is that it's unlikely that he cheated against KC, at least to the extent he would have been able to against SF.

And ill say it again, with his history it wouldnt be surprising if he did. Whether or not YOU believe it is irrelevant to whether or not others believe it. A lot of people thought it was unlikely that NE could cheat, yet they did.

BroncoWave
07-14-2011, 06:26 PM
And ill say it again, with his history it wouldnt be surprising if he did. Whether or not YOU believe it is irrelevant to whether or not others believe it. A lot of people thought it was unlikely that NE could cheat, yet they did.

There's no proof he did it against KC and until there is, Haley's comments come off as sour grapes.

And NE got caught cheating during the Super Bowl, which, once again, is a location where it's MUCH easier to spy on the other team since they are in the same location. See the connection?

NightTerror218
07-14-2011, 06:47 PM
If McD did cheat, he sucked horribly at it, cause we still lost 12 games.

OrangeHoof
07-14-2011, 07:11 PM
Logic would be Don't ******* cheat.

Logic would be Don't ******* get caught.

Broncospsycho77
07-14-2011, 10:29 PM
If McD did cheat, he sucked horribly at it, cause we still lost 12 games.

Thread over.

UrbanBounca
07-15-2011, 12:04 AM
Cheating or not, we ended with a 4-12 season. If he was cheating, he obviously wasn't good at that, either.

Dzone
07-15-2011, 01:24 AM
He should have been fired about a month before he was

claymore
07-15-2011, 05:48 AM
No doubt. People act as if he isn't qualified to run a high school team. Belichick regarded him as his brightest assistant coach, and while there was no love for Mangini or Crennel, he was pretty outspoken (well, as outspoken as Belichick can get) about McDaniels being a loss to the Patriots when he left.

He was hired to be a coach, and I think he did a reasonable job of doing that. It's when he took over personnel that things got out of hand, and part of the blame goes to Xanders and Ellis/Bowlen for allowing that to happen. McDaniels had a system for a specific type of personnel, and he just never gave himself the talent to succeed with that system.

I never looked at the Broncos and thought, "Man, the players have given up." They played hard until the end of the fourth quarter, but they just didn't have the talent. That indicates to me that the coach is doing something right.

Yeah, he should have been fired - the mini-Spygate thing was a black eye, and I don't know how you gracefully demote him from being a personnel guy to just being a coach, and the record obviously wasn't good because of the lack of talent on the field, which was largely his fault (although Shanahan didn't exactly leave him with the 1985 Bears defense).

A lot of his mistakes came from youth/inexperience, but he's also clearly very smart and talented, and I would bet a reasonable sum of money on him being a successful head coach in the NFL in the next 5-10 years.

And for a season and a half+, we had one of the two coaches in the NFL who actually understand opportunity cost/expected value (anyone who's played poker for any real amount of money can sympathize with my frustration here). Boy, that was nice to see someone who understands something most of the league does not, even though I think it's pretty basic.

What has McD done that would make you believe he is smart and talented? I dont get it. That guy is one of the biggest effin retard douche bags ever to get a HC job. EVERYTHING he touched turned to shit.

He is the worse thing that has ever happened to the Broncos.

HammeredOut
07-15-2011, 10:27 AM
Todd Haley thought Josh McDaniels was cheating because he saw that between first Rounders Robert Ayers, Moreno, D. Thomas, T.Tebow, and trading Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis, and Cutler, that it was cheating because even Todd Haley wouldn't get that low to dismantle the Broncos team, and turn them into the 2nd overall pick in this years draft.

spikerman
07-15-2011, 03:33 PM
At least Josh would shake people's hands.

He was just trying to steal their watch.

spikerman
07-15-2011, 03:35 PM
...he was going to do all the things I had been advocating for years.. Bigger stronger smarter and faster team and moving away from the ZBS and 4-3 defense.


If that was the team you had been "advocating for years", please submit an application to be the GM of the Chargers, Chiefs, or Raiders immediately.

Thanks.

TXBRONC
07-15-2011, 03:47 PM
You misunderstood my post. I fully admit what he did against SF was cheating and I don't condone it at all.

My point is that it's highly unlikely that he cheated against the Chiefs seeing as it's impossible to go film their practice when they are across the country at their own private facility.

I disagee because for several reasons.

1.) Teams have walk throughs at the stadium that they are going to play in.

2.) McDaniels mentor taped during games as well as practices.

3.) If Joshy was willing to take advantage of the 49ers in London then he would I doubt like he wouldn't inclined to do so when the opportunity presented itself.

4.) He lied to his boss and to the public about his involvement in the New England scandal. His willingness to do that shows that his moral compass is/was at best skewed.

Tned
07-15-2011, 04:10 PM
Yeah, I'm sure McD has NO idea that you need talent to win in the NFL. :lol:

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Yeah, he did get rid of some talented players, but he also kept several talented players and tried to bring in more.

And other than maybe Hillis, you can make some strong arguments in support of why he got rid of the other players that he did. I'm not going to re-hash those argumentst because they have been made on here a million times, but those arguments do exist.

Regardless, of the perceived arguments, McD made the trades, so is responsible for, and owns, the disastrous results.

BroncoWave
07-15-2011, 04:37 PM
Regardless, of the perceived arguments, McD made the trades, so is responsible for, and owns, the disastrous results.

Obviously, but my point is that the argument "McDaniels doesn't know you need talent to win in the NFL" is just retarded.

Ravage!!!
07-15-2011, 04:41 PM
I'm sure he knows it now, after he dumped his best talent and then crashed to the worst record in Denver history. I'm sure it may have hit him somewhere along the line last year as he was getting his ass handed to him.

TXBRONC
07-15-2011, 06:10 PM
Obviously, but my point is that the argument "McDaniels doesn't know you need talent to win in the NFL" is just retarded.

It's meant figuratively not literally.

LTC Pain
07-15-2011, 06:50 PM
Who gives a flying bat fart what Todd Haley thinks or says. He didn't have his team ready and got an ass whipping.

Lonestar
07-15-2011, 11:09 PM
No doubt. People act as if he isn't qualified to run a high school team. Belichick regarded him as his brightest assistant coach, and while there was no love for Mangini or Crennel, he was pretty outspoken (well, as outspoken as Belichick can get) about McDaniels being a loss to the Patriots when he left.

He was hired to be a coach, and I think he did a reasonable job of doing that. It's when he took over personnel that things got out of hand, and part of the blame goes to Xanders and Ellis/Bowlen for allowing that to happen. McDaniels had a system for a specific type of personnel, and he just never gave himself the talent to succeed with that system.

I never looked at the Broncos and thought, "Man, the players have given up." They played hard until the end of the fourth quarter, but they just didn't have the talent. That indicates to me that the coach is doing something right.

Yeah, he should have been fired - the mini-Spygate thing was a black eye, and I don't know how you gracefully demote him from being a personnel guy to just being a coach, and the record obviously wasn't good because of the lack of talent on the field, which was largely his fault (although Shanahan didn't exactly leave him with the 1985 Bears defense).

A lot of his mistakes came from youth/inexperience, but he's also clearly very smart and talented, and I would bet a reasonable sum of money on him being a successful head coach in the NFL in the next 5-10 years.

And for a season and a half+, we had one of the two coaches in the NFL who actually understand opportunity cost/expected value (anyone who's played poker for any real amount of money can sympathize with my frustration here). Boy, that was nice to see someone who understands something most of the league does not, even though I think it's pretty basic.

outstanding post to bad it will fall on deaf ears..:salute:




Yeah, I'm sure McD has NO idea that you need talent to win in the NFL. :lol:

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Yeah, he did get rid of some talented players, but he also kept several talented players and tried to bring in more.

And other than maybe Hillis, you can make some strong arguments in support of why he got rid of the other players that he did. I'm not going to re-hash those arguments because they have been made on here a million times, but those arguments do exist.


also a great post ..:salute:

Tned
07-15-2011, 11:13 PM
Obviously, but my point is that the argument "McDaniels doesn't know you need talent to win in the NFL" is just retarded.

McDaniels is a smart guy, and even a dumb guy would know you need talent to win in the NFL. That said, he made a lot of very bad mistakes. Even Pat Bowlen stated shortly after the Cutler trade and first draft that McDaniels had made "rookie mistakes."

That's the risk when hiring not only a first time head coach, but one so young. McDaniels arrogance and ego wrote checks that his brains could not pay (to borrow and bastardize a line from Top Gun).

BeefStew25
07-15-2011, 11:47 PM
McDaniels issue, to me, an outsider, as all of us are,except you guys even more, since you don't have season tickets, is that he treats people like shit.

For those of you who think a hard ass boss/coach is needed, ask yourself if you would like McD to be your boss. Eff no.

Tough but fair, yes. Slime ball ethically challenged, nope.

claymore
07-16-2011, 04:48 AM
McDaniels is a smart guy, and even a dumb guy would know you need talent to win in the NFL. That said, he made a lot of very bad mistakes. Even Pat Bowlen stated shortly after the Cutler trade and first draft that McDaniels had made "rookie mistakes."

That's the risk when hiring not only a first time head coach, but one so young. McDaniels arrogance and ego wrote checks that his brains could not pay (to borrow and bastardize a line from Top Gun).
Everyone keeps calling him a smart guy. I think its more out of conditioning, or politeness. But the dude is an effin retard.

I want to see him do something well without Bill Belicheck. The guy sucked donkey balls as a HC, OC, personnel guy. Yes we had alot of meaningless passing yards. But everything else was TERRIBLE.

Juriga72
07-16-2011, 09:27 AM
Everyone keeps calling him a smart guy. I think its more out of conditioning, or politeness. But the dude is an effin retard.

I want to see him do something well without Bill Belicheck. The guy sucked donkey balls as a HC, OC, personnel guy. Yes we had alot of meaningless passing yards. But everything else was TERRIBLE.

Hey he got us to the #2 draft position for the first time EVER!!!!

THATS something:laugh:

TXBRONC
07-16-2011, 09:32 AM
Everyone keeps calling him a smart guy. I think its more out of conditioning, or politeness. But the dude is an effin retard.

I want to see him do something well without Bill Belicheck. The guy sucked donkey balls as a HC, OC, personnel guy. Yes we had alot of meaningless passing yards. But everything else was TERRIBLE.

When comes the Xs and Os he is smart Clay even his biggest critics concede he understands the game very well.

BeefStew25
07-16-2011, 10:01 AM
When comes the Xs and Os he is smart Clay even his biggest critics concede he understands the game very well.

Sure, in a vaccum. Lock him in a press box with a play sheet, I suppose.

It is like saying Nut's dog likes peanut butter. Sure, but not on sandwiches. Probably just human scrotums.

Lonestar
07-16-2011, 10:33 AM
So once agian we bash Josh because he was hired to be the HC and was given a rookie co GMsand one of which seemed to be power-hungry.

If the rookie GMs were nit doing their jobs. I guess it would have been best for no one to do it.

Yes that makes sense.
The smart thing to do was hire a Qualified and experienced GM and then let him do the grunt work in hiring the rest of the staff. HC on down subject to Pat approval.

That plus the lack of depth and quality starters left behind put the team into a hole that would take years to climb out of.

Atleast Pat learned from that and brought in a "rookie" vp of football operations this time to over see the process.

Ahahahahahahahaha

TXBRONC
07-16-2011, 10:35 AM
Sure, in a vaccum. Lock him in a press box with a play sheet, I suppose.

It is like saying Nut's dog likes peanut butter. Sure, but not on sandwiches. Probably just human scrotums.

Beef you have a way with words. :lol:

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 10:40 AM
So once agian we bash Josh because he was hired to be the HC and was given a rookie co GMsand one of which seemed to be power-hungry.

If the rookie GMs were nit doing their jobs. I guess it would have been best for no one to do it.

Yes that makes sense.
The smart thing to do was hire a Qualified and experienced GM and then let him do the grunt work in hiring the rest of the staff. HC on down subject to Pat approval.

That plus the lack of depth and quality starters left behind put the team into a hole that would take years to climb out of.

Atleast Pat learned from that and brought in a "rookie" vp of football operations this time to over see the process.

Ahahahahahahahaha

You'd have a point if you could keep your hatred for Shanahan out of a post for once, and if McDaniels didn't make so many mistakes as a game day coach.

I saw more mistakes in game day calls and decisions than I did as in his personnel moves.

Dreadnought
07-16-2011, 11:00 AM
I saw more mistakes in game day calls and decisions than I did as in his personnel moves.

Tough call - I'd rate that a toss-up, shading towards worse personnel decisions, but am willing to concede you may have a point. Bottom line, he sucked at every single aspect of the job of head Coach of an NFL team

Screw Todd Haley though. I don't need that tool to tell me McDaniels was a dishonest POS, and I suspect Haley is every bit the doosh McDaniels is.

TXBRONC
07-16-2011, 11:14 AM
Tough call - I'd rate that a toss-up, shading towards worse personnel decisions, but am willing to concede you may have a point. Bottom line, he sucked at every single aspect of the job of head Coach of an NFL team

Screw Todd Haley though. I don't need that tool to tell me McDaniels was a dishonest POS, and I suspect Haley is every bit the doosh McDaniels is.

To me it's neither hear nor there was Haley said because it's directed specifically at McDaniels. Now if he hand started slinging mud at the organization or us fans those would be fightin words. :viking:

atwater27
07-16-2011, 11:21 AM
So once agian we bash Josh because he was hired to be the HC and was given a rookie co GMsand one of which seemed to be power-hungry.

If the rookie GMs were nit doing their jobs. I guess it would have been best for no one to do it.

Yes that makes sense.
The smart thing to do was hire a Qualified and experienced GM and then let him do the grunt work in hiring the rest of the staff. HC on down subject to Pat approval.

That plus the lack of depth and quality starters left behind put the team into a hole that would take years to climb out of.

Atleast Pat learned from that and brought in a "rookie" vp of football operations this time to over see the process.

Ahahahahahahahaha

Folks, we yet again have high readings with this one....


http://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/170292_yarNokgHH_6rMa9V9DUs4hd_G.jpg

BroncoWave
07-16-2011, 11:21 AM
You don't start a season 6-0 by having no idea how to coach. Come on now. Yeah we were awful after that, but you have to have at least SOME idea what you're doing when the team you coach starts 6-0.

You should also look no further than how much Kyle Orton overpreformed to get a sense of his coaching abilities.

Maybe if we went 0-16 you'd have a point that he was completely incompetent as a coach but that wasn't the case.

BeefStew25
07-16-2011, 11:24 AM
You don't start a season 6-0 by having no idea how to coach. Come on now. Yeah we were awful after that, but you have to have at least SOME idea what you're doing when the team you coach starts 6-0.

You should also look no further than how much Kyle Orton overpreformed to get a sense of his coaching abilities.

Maybe if we went 0-16 you'd have a point that he was completely incompetent as a coach but that wasn't the case.

The start and end of that season showed McD's inability to adjust. So, no, he has no idea how to be a head coach.

TXBRONC
07-16-2011, 11:27 AM
You don't start a season 6-0 by having no idea how to coach. Come on now. Yeah we were awful after that, but you have to have at least SOME idea what you're doing when the team you coach starts 6-0.

You should also look no further than how much Kyle Orton overpreformed to get a sense of his coaching abilities.

Maybe if we went 0-16 you'd have a point that he was completely incompetent as a coach but that wasn't the case.

Five wins in his last 20 games and four losing streaks of three games or more says differently.

Kyle Orton's "great" preformance shows that he can coach a position but nothing more than that imho.

atwater27
07-16-2011, 11:29 AM
You don't start a season 6-0 by having no idea how to coach. Come on now. Yeah we were awful after that, but you have to have at least SOME idea what you're doing when the team you coach starts 6-0.

You should also look no further than how much Kyle Orton overpreformed to get a sense of his coaching abilities.

Maybe if we went 0-16 you'd have a point that he was completely incompetent as a coach but that wasn't the case.

How, pray tell, did Kyle Orton overperform?

claymore
07-16-2011, 11:29 AM
When comes the Xs and Os he is smart Clay even his biggest critics concede he understands the game very well.

I havent seen the smart McDaniels. Im still waiting to see it. I predict the Rams offense will regress this year.

atwater27
07-16-2011, 11:31 AM
I havent seen the smart McDaniels. Im still waiting to see it. I predict the Rams offense will regress this year.

Especially after he gets caught trying to trade for Kyle Orton behind behind Bradford's back, pisses him off royally, then denies it, sours the relationship, and ultimately trades him.

claymore
07-16-2011, 11:34 AM
Especially after he gets caught trying to trade for Kyle Orton behind behind Bradford's back, pisses him off royally, then denies it, sours the relationship, and ultimately trades him.

He's going to have to kiss Bradfords ass if he wants to keep his job in St louis. No way in hell would they let him wreck/trade Bradford.

claymore
07-16-2011, 11:35 AM
You don't start a season 6-0 by having no idea how to coach. Come on now. Yeah we were awful after that, but you have to have at least SOME idea what you're doing when the team you coach starts 6-0.

You should also look no further than how much Kyle Orton overpreformed to get a sense of his coaching abilities.

Maybe if we went 0-16 you'd have a point that he was completely incompetent as a coach but that wasn't the case.

3 of those first 6 games were miracle wins. Dallas, Cincinatti, and SD???

atwater27
07-16-2011, 11:38 AM
Who knows? Maybe he'll try for Tebow.

claymore
07-16-2011, 11:39 AM
Who knows? Maybe he'll try for Tebow.

I hope so. We would be carbon neutral if we traded Teebs for Bradford.

TXBRONC
07-16-2011, 11:42 AM
Especially after he gets caught trying to trade for Kyle Orton behind behind Bradford's back, pisses him off royally, then denies it, sours the relationship, and ultimately trades him.


He's going to have to kiss Bradfords ass if he wants to keep his job in St louis. No way in hell would they let him wreck/trade Bradford.

He wont need to bring Orton in to get into a pissing contest with Bradford. He's more than capable of doing that without lobbying to bring in Orton.

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 11:55 AM
It smells like Bear in here.

atwater27
07-16-2011, 12:01 PM
It smells like Bear in here.

Nah. I'm detecting more of a carney, maybe gay midget smell now.

Tned
07-16-2011, 12:07 PM
So once agian we bash Josh because he was hired to be the HC and was given a rookie co GMsand one of which seemed to be power-hungry.

If the rookie GMs were nit doing their jobs. I guess it would have been best for no one to do it.

Yes that makes sense.
The smart thing to do was hire a Qualified and experienced GM and then let him do the grunt work in hiring the rest of the staff. HC on down subject to Pat approval.

That plus the lack of depth and quality starters left behind put the team into a hole that would take years to climb out of.

Atleast Pat learned from that and brought in a "rookie" vp of football operations this time to over see the process.

Ahahahahahahahaha

I wonder why posts like this never get High Fives??? :confused:

Ok, trying to decipher it, I get out of it:

First, Josh did no wrong and anyone criticising him is wrong. :brokenrecord:

Second, the problem was Xanders (formerly affectionately called Xman by Jr, until he became the scapegoat). Xanders, aka Xman, wasn't doing his job, so McDaniels had NO CHOICE but to go solo/rogue on the player/personnel stuff -- player trades, etc.

Third, Pat is ultimately to blame, because we all know McDaniels was nothing but perfect in his stint as Broncos HC, for hiring a rookie GM (aka Xman, previously spoken of in glowing terms by Jr, until Xanders made it clear that McDaniels cut him out of many/most player moves), and now is equally at fault for hiring Elway, a rookie VP of Football.

Simply amazing the lengths some will go to defend a failed head coach, simply because he replaced the hated mikey and therefore at all costs must be 'proven' to be better than mikey.

OMG, I think I'm going to puke.

BroncoWave
07-16-2011, 12:11 PM
Please excuse me for interrupting your regularly scheduled McDaniels bash circle-****. Please continue....

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 12:13 PM
Please excuse me for interrupting your regularly scheduled McDaniels bash circle-****. Please continue....

Yeah, I gotta say the McDaniels-hate circle-jerk is probably a lot more bearable than the fan boy Tebow circle-jerk.

JMHO.

spikerman
07-16-2011, 01:00 PM
I wonder why posts like this never get High Fives??? :confused:

Ok, trying to decipher it, I get out of it:

First, Josh did no wrong and anyone criticising him is wrong. :brokenrecord:

Second, the problem was Xanders (formerly affectionately called Xman by Jr, until he became the scapegoat). Xanders, aka Xman, wasn't doing his job, so McDaniels had NO CHOICE but to go solo/rogue on the player/personnel stuff -- player trades, etc.

Third, Pat is ultimately to blame, because we all know McDaniels was nothing but perfect in his stint as Broncos HC, for hiring a rookie GM (aka Xman, previously spoken of in glowing terms by Jr, until Xanders made it clear that McDaniels cut him out of many/most player moves), and now is equally at fault for hiring Elway, a rookie VP of Football.

Simply amazing the lengths some will go to defend a failed head coach, simply because he replaced the hated mikey and therefore at all costs must be 'proven' to be better than mikey.

OMG, I think I'm going to puke.

You're forgetting that at one point Nolan apparently had the power to bring in Fields without clearing it through the HC and GM and McDaniels was stuck with him. :rolleyes:

spikerman
07-16-2011, 01:01 PM
Yeah, I gotta say the McDaniels-hate circle-jerk is probably a lot more bearable than the fan boy Tebow circle-jerk.

JMHO.

It's usually a lot more entertaining.

TXBRONC
07-16-2011, 01:15 PM
You're forgetting that at one point Nolan apparently had the power to bring in Fields without clearing it through the HC and GM and McDaniels was stuck with him. :rolleyes:

It gets old to hear ad nauseum that Nolan acted unilaterally but he didn't with intent of screwing Joshy over.

Tned
07-16-2011, 01:43 PM
Please excuse me for interrupting your regularly scheduled McDaniels bash circle-****. Please continue....

Not to be confused with a BTB "slam anyone with an opinion contrary to my own" circle-****...

BroncoWave
07-16-2011, 02:23 PM
Not to be confused with a BTB "slam anyone with an opinion contrary to my own" circle-****...

Who have I slammed in this thread? :confused:

Tned
07-16-2011, 02:36 PM
Who have I slammed in this thread? :confused:

Everyone who criticized McDaniels, with your circle **** crack. Maybe you should focus less on lashing out at people with opinions different than your own, and just post your opinion in threads.

Lonestar
07-16-2011, 02:43 PM
You don't start a season 6-0 by having no idea how to coach. Come on now. Yeah we were awful after that, but you have to have at least SOME idea what you're doing when the team you coach starts 6-0.

You should also look no further than how much Kyle Orton overpreformed to get a sense of his coaching abilities.

Maybe if we went 0-16 you'd have a point that he was completely incompetent as a coach but that wasn't the case.

Good post. See that a few folks do not allow emotions to get in the way of logic.

spikerman
07-16-2011, 02:45 PM
Unfortunately for us Broncos fans, there were still 10 games remaining after that 6-0 start. Once the rest of the league figured out that as long as they defended the bubble screen, Denver didn't have anything else to try.

Lonestar
07-16-2011, 02:52 PM
Please excuse me for interrupting your regularly scheduled McDaniels bash circle-****. Please continue....

Well I see you have pissed off just about everyone also.

To quote a famous guy
Just ignore" them for they no not what they do"

I'd high five you but I'm mobile. So instead :salute:

Lonestar
07-16-2011, 02:57 PM
Unfortunately for us Broncos fans, there were still 10 games remaining after that 6-0 start. Once the rest of the league figured out that as long as they defended the bubble screen Denver didn't have anything else to try.

About the same time Nolan stopped coaching also.

Mistakes were made by everyone in dove valley they did all emanate our of Joshs office.

Perhaps thinking that a very recently failed and then fired ex head coach was not the right guy to hire as his ego was Still to big. Forgot that as a coordinator you take directions from the HC.

To bad he failed he could have been helpful.

spikerman
07-16-2011, 03:01 PM
About the same time Nolan stopped coaching also.

Mistakes were made by everyone in dove valley they did all emanate our of Joshs office.

Perhaps thinking that a very recently failed and then fired ex head coach was not the right guy to hire as his ego was Still to big. Forgot that as a coordinator you take directions from the HC.

To bad he failed he could have been helpful.

If my memory serves, Nolan was doing pretty well with what can only be described as mediocre talent at best, until McDaniels decided he knew more about defense than Nolan.

TXBRONC
07-16-2011, 03:47 PM
If my memory serves, Nolan was doing pretty well with what can only be described as mediocre talent at best, until McDaniels decided he knew more about defense than Nolan.

Not only mediocre but also undersized.

turftoad
07-16-2011, 03:53 PM
About the same time Nolan stopped coaching also.

Mistakes were made by everyone in dove valley they did all emanate our of Joshs office.

Perhaps thinking that a very recently failed and then fired ex head coach was not the right guy to hire as his ego was Still to big. Forgot that as a coordinator you take directions from the HC. To bad he failed he could have been helpful.

Joshy doesn't have the makings of a head coach at this point in his career. He's fine as an OC but not an HC. He did nothing to earn respect from anyone. That said, respect needs to be earned, you just don't give it to someone.

As much as I dislike the guy, I'm sure he'll do fine as the OC with the Rams. Just don't let him have any personel decisions.

TXBRONC
07-16-2011, 03:59 PM
Joshy doesn't have the makings of a head coach at this point in his career. He's fine as an OC but not an HC. He did nothing to earn respect from anyone. That said, respect needs to be earned, you just don't give it to someone.

As much as I dislike the guy, I'm sure he'll do fine as the OC with the Rams. Just don't let him have any personel decisions.

More experience as a coordinator could help but Joshy's achilles heal is inability to get along with people.

turftoad
07-16-2011, 04:02 PM
More experience as coordinator could help but Joshy's achilles heal is inability to get along with people.

100% agree. His lack of experience did not match his big ego. The HC job went to his head. Little Hitler got a big taste of humble pie.

Juriga72
07-16-2011, 04:06 PM
You don't start a season 6-0 by having no idea how to coach. Come on now. Yeah we were awful after that, but you have to have at least SOME idea what you're doing when the team you coach starts 6-0.

You should also look no further than how much Kyle Orton overpreformed to get a sense of his coaching abilities.

Maybe if we went 0-16 you'd have a point that he was completely incompetent as a coach but that wasn't the case.

Uh... lets see.....

Week #1- Utter hail mary UBER underthrow to Marshal that is batted in the air to Stokes.... With a dominate offense scoring 5 points thru 59:45 seconds *Coaching*

Week #2-54 yards rushing by Cleveland.. Oh and Brady Quinn throwing up on himself for a 3/14 third down performance

Week #3-Jamarcuss has 61 yards of passing- *Coaching*

Week #4- Marshall runs untouched for 45 yards thru all 11 defenders. After 4 games we gave up a total of 26 points...

Week #5- Ok.. Coaching

Week #6- Yet another slow start by San Diego


So far...1 of 6 wins "Coaching".....

2 wins "Miracle NFL highlight of the year" plays
2 wins by "Terrible NEVER should be in the NFL" qb's.....

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 04:08 PM
You don't start a season 6-0 by having no idea how to coach. Come on now. Yeah we were awful after that, but you have to have at least SOME idea what you're doing when the team you coach starts 6-0.

You should also look no further than how much Kyle Orton overpreformed to get a sense of his coaching abilities.

Maybe if we went 0-16 you'd have a point that he was completely incompetent as a coach but that wasn't the case.

Uh... lets see.....

Week #1- Utter hail mary UBER underthrow to Marshal that is batted in the air to Stokes.... With a dominate offense scoring 5 points thru 59:45 seconds *Coaching*

Week #2-54 yards rushing by Cleveland.. Oh and Brady Quinn throwing up on himself for a 3/14 third down performance

Week #3-Jamarcuss has 61 yards of passing- *Coaching*

Week #4- Marshall runs untouched for 45 yards thru all 11 defenders. After 4 games we gave up a total of 26 points...

Week #5- Ok.. Coaching

Week #6- Yet another slow start by San Diego


So far...1 of 6 wins "Coaching".....

2 wins "Miracle NFL highlight of the year" plays
2 wins by "Terrible NEVER should be in the NFL" qb's.....

That is really not a very good analysis of those six games. Actually, it is extremely poor.

TXBRONC
07-16-2011, 04:14 PM
100% agree. His lack of experience did not match his big ego. The HC job went to his head. Little Hitler got a big taste of humble pie.

I don't know Turf. The last time Joshy talked about his stint in Denver he whined about how everyone wasn't pulling in the same direction.

turftoad
07-16-2011, 04:20 PM
I don't know Turf. The last time Joshy talked about his stint in Denver he whined about how everyone wasn't pulling in the same direction.

I thought that was the head coach's job. To get everyone puling in the same direction.
He had no respect because of the way he treated people. It was his own fault as was his downfall.
To bad it's us (the fans) that had to pay for it. :tsk:

BroncoWave
07-16-2011, 04:57 PM
Everyone who criticized McDaniels, with your circle **** crack. Maybe you should focus less on lashing out at people with opinions different than your own, and just post your opinion in threads.

Before that post that's all I had done in this thread, to no avail. All that happens when you say anything positive about McD on this board is get ganged up on by basically everyone else in the thread, so I feel my comment was completely warranted.

No one that hates McD will hear anything but bashing of him, so not only was my comment warranted, it was accurate.

BroncoWave
07-16-2011, 05:00 PM
Uh... lets see.....

Week #1- Utter hail mary UBER underthrow to Marshal that is batted in the air to Stokes.... With a dominate offense scoring 5 points thru 59:45 seconds *Coaching*

Week #2-54 yards rushing by Cleveland.. Oh and Brady Quinn throwing up on himself for a 3/14 third down performance

Week #3-Jamarcuss has 61 yards of passing- *Coaching*

Week #4- Marshall runs untouched for 45 yards thru all 11 defenders. After 4 games we gave up a total of 26 points...

Week #5- Ok.. Coaching

Week #6- Yet another slow start by San Diego


So far...1 of 6 wins "Coaching".....

2 wins "Miracle NFL highlight of the year" plays
2 wins by "Terrible NEVER should be in the NFL" qb's.....

So the wins were all on miracles and the losses were all because McDaniels is a horrible coach. Yet more proof that logic is simply ignored when McD is discussed on here.

TXBRONC
07-16-2011, 05:46 PM
Before that post that's all I had done in this thread, to no avail. All that happens when you say anything positive about McD on this board is get ganged up on by basically everyone else in the thread, so I feel my comment was completely warranted.

No one that hates McD will hear anything but bashing of him, so not only was my comment warranted, it was accurate.

So it gives you a free pass to violate the CoC just because you think McDaniels record is being misrepresented? If that's cases where's that same crack for those who have misrepresented Shanahan's record?

Tned
07-16-2011, 06:03 PM
Before that post that's all I had done in this thread, to no avail. All that happens when you say anything positive about McD on this board is get ganged up on by basically everyone else in the thread, so I feel my comment was completely warranted.

No one that hates McD will hear anything but bashing of him, so not only was my comment warranted, it was accurate.

Sorry you're upset that others don't share your opinion of McDaniels, doesn't mean it's ok to lash out because most people don't agree with your rosy opinion of him. Just like you shouldn't be lashing out at people because they don't agree with you assessment of RB's and why people like them.

Why don't you focus less on what other posters believe and more on how you respond to opinions that don't mirror your own. Just a thought.

zbeg
07-16-2011, 06:10 PM
I havent seen the smart McDaniels. Im still waiting to see it. I predict the Rams offense will regress this year.

Is wagering allowed on these boards? :-) I'd love to put some money on the Rams' offense this year against the McDaniels nay-sayers.

BroncoWave
07-16-2011, 06:18 PM
Sorry you're upset that others don't share your opinion of McDaniels, doesn't mean it's ok to lash out because most people don't agree with your rosy opinion of him. Just like you shouldn't be lashing out at people because they don't agree with you assessment of RB's and why people like them.

Why don't you focus less on what other posters believe and more on how you respond to opinions that don't mirror your own. Just a thought.

Sorry for calling a spade a spade...

Tned
07-16-2011, 06:51 PM
Sorry for calling a spade a spade...

Ok, Jr.

At least you didn't tell us the only reason we are critical of MCDaniels job in Denver is because he's white...

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 07:05 PM
Sorry you're upset that others don't share your opinion of McDaniels, doesn't mean it's ok to lash out because most people don't agree with your rosy opinion of him. Just like you shouldn't be lashing out at people because they don't agree with you assessment of RB's and why people like them.

Why don't you focus less on what other posters believe and more on how you respond to opinions that don't mirror your own. Just a thought.

Sorry for calling a spade a spade...

I'm confused by this discussion...how are these endless hyperbolic conversations about how "retarded" and terrible McDaniels was, not essentially verbal circle-jerks, and who exactly was that a personal attack on?

That seemed to be a fairly accurate observation.

Tned
07-16-2011, 07:15 PM
I'm confused by this discussion...how are these endless hyperbolic conversations about how "retarded" and terrible McDaniels was, not essentially verbal circle-jerks, and who exactly was that a personal attack on?

That seemed to be a fairly accurate observation.

Ok, so slamming McDaniels isn't ok, but slamming people that slam McDaniels is ok???

Benetto
07-16-2011, 07:19 PM
Has anyone tried the new frozen strawberry lemonade at McDonalds yet?











JK...Come on guys, let's just drop it and move on...Thread topic isn't even relevant to this back and forth BS.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-16-2011, 08:07 PM
Has anyone tried the new frozen strawberry lemonade at McDonalds yet?











JK...Come on guys, let's just drop it and move on...Thread topic isn't even relevant to this back and forth BS.

Could be the #1 web gem for the night :salute:

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 08:42 PM
I'm confused by this discussion...how are these endless hyperbolic conversations about how "retarded" and terrible McDaniels was, not essentially verbal circle-jerks, and who exactly was that a personal attack on?

That seemed to be a fairly accurate observation.

Ok, so slamming McDaniels isn't ok, but slamming people that slam McDaniels is ok???

Who is slamming people that slam McDaniels and how are they slamming those people?

And who is saying slamming McDaniels ISN'T OK?

Tned
07-16-2011, 09:05 PM
Who is slamming people that slam McDaniels and how are they slamming those people?

And who is saying slamming McDaniels ISN'T OK?

Give it a rest already.

BeefStew25
07-16-2011, 09:09 PM
I am going to say something I feel all of us think:

The adults are in charge now. The Berlin Wall is down. Let us be gay.

Tned
07-16-2011, 09:18 PM
I am going to say something I feel all of us think:

The adults are in charge now. The Berlin Wall is down. Let us be gay.

Parts of the Berlin wall still stand...

Davii
07-16-2011, 09:24 PM
McDaniels issue, to me, an outsider, as all of us are,except you guys even more, since you don't have season tickets, is that he treats people like shit.

For those of you who think a hard ass boss/coach is needed, ask yourself if you would like McD to be your boss. Eff no.

Tough but fair, yes. Slime ball ethically challenged, nope.

You've got season tickets Beef?

BeefStew25
07-16-2011, 09:36 PM
Parts of the Berlin wall still stand...

Good point. Xanders and Ellis still draw paychecks from the Bronxos.

BeefStew25
07-16-2011, 09:37 PM
You've got season tickets Beef?

Yeah! Put my name on the list in 93. They called me 3 years ago. Section 524. Will pass them down to my kids.

Davii
07-16-2011, 09:39 PM
Yeah! Put my name on the list in 93. They called me 3 years ago. Section 524. Will pass them down to my kids.

Nice. Only took 15 years, not too shabby.

BeefStew25
07-16-2011, 09:47 PM
Nice. Only took 15 years, not too shabby.

Since then I think it is not as long. McD assured that.

Tned
07-16-2011, 09:52 PM
Good point. Xanders and Ellis still draw paychecks from the Bronxos.

I think Ellis now writes them...

Tned
07-16-2011, 09:54 PM
Since then I think it is not as long. McD assured that.

Yep, McD can be thanked for shortening the waiting list time DRAMATICALLY. I put my name on in early '06 and got the call this offseason.

spikerman
07-16-2011, 10:07 PM
Yep, McD can be thanked for shortening the waiting list time DRAMATICALLY. I put my name on in early '06 and got the call this offseason.

Congrats, I also got the call this offseason.

Lonestar
07-16-2011, 10:12 PM
You're forgetting that at one point Nolan apparently had the power to bring in Fields without clearing it through the HC and GM and McDaniels was stuck with him. :rolleyes:

There is little doubt in my mind that Nolan was so sold on fields when asked if we needed more in the NT position that nolans said no.

From day one of fields coming to town he was the starter. And Nolan blew smoke up everyone's ass about how he was misused in SFO. And he was the next coming.

Either that or Xman would not allow him another NT.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-16-2011, 10:13 PM
Yep, McD can be thanked for shortening the waiting list time DRAMATICALLY. I put my name on in early '06 and got the call this offseason.

If I had to guess, it was the lockout which shortened the waiting list time dramatically.

spikerman
07-16-2011, 10:17 PM
There is little doubt in my mind that Nolan was so sold on fields when asked if we needed more in the NT position that nolans said no.

From day one of fields coming to town he was the starter. And Nolan blew smoke up everyone's ass about how he was misused in SFO. And he was the next coming.

Either that or Xman would not allow him another NT.

Why are you so convinced that McDaniels played no part in the decision? Is it just a feeling you have regarding Nolan being responsible or do you have any actual evidence?

Since you're saying it was either Nolan or Xanders (a new theory), I suspect that you're very reluctant to place any blame on McDaniels. You always talk about using logic and logic says that as the ultimate decision maker, Fields would not have played such a large role without McDaniels' blessing.

Tned
07-16-2011, 10:20 PM
If I had to guess, it was the lockout which shortened the waiting list time dramatically.

No, because the same thing happened the year before (people being surprised at when their name came up) and before the lockout this year.

The number of no shows in the stands by mid-season or so was becoming staggering. I know you listen to the local Denver stations and know that Broncos fan apathy at the end of last season was as high as it's been in the last 30 years.

Tned
07-16-2011, 10:23 PM
Congrats, I also got the call this offseason.

Did you get them? Did you go with South stands or upper deck?

Denver Native (Carol)
07-16-2011, 10:25 PM
No, because the same thing happened the year before (people being surprised at when their name came up) and before the lockout this year.

The number of no shows in the stands by mid-season or so was becoming staggering. I know you listen to the local Denver stations and know that Broncos fan apathy at the end of last season was as high as it's been in the last 30 years.

True - but that changed considerably when the Broncos brought #7 on board.

spikerman
07-16-2011, 10:25 PM
Did you get them? Did you go with South stands or upper deck?

Yeah, I got them. I wanted the cheapest tickets (I actually like the end zone view), but there was only one seat available when I looked so I went with the next cheapest. Since I live in San Antonio, I'll only be able to get to one or two games, but I have friends who might use the others.

spikerman
07-16-2011, 10:26 PM
True - but that changed considerably when the Broncos brought #7 on board.

I wish they could get him back in uniform. Even at his age he'd still start out as #1 on the depth chart.

Tned
07-16-2011, 10:31 PM
True - but that changed considerably when the Broncos brought #7 on board.

I agree fan morale changed considerably, but if you are going to weigh to things (a lockout and the last few years) in terms of impact on season tickets, I don't really see how you can blame a lockout that most feel/felt would get settled this offseason one way or another. The reporters talked about never seeing so many empty seats at Invesco as they did the second half of last year. When you have that many people not using seats they already paid for, it is going to lead to them not renewing them.

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 10:46 PM
Who is slamming people that slam McDaniels and how are they slamming those people?

And who is saying slamming McDaniels ISN'T OK?

Give it a rest already.

In other words, you don't know or dont't have an answer.

And give it a rest? It was your crusade...lol

BeefStew25
07-16-2011, 10:51 PM
Midget is loaded.

Tned
07-16-2011, 10:53 PM
In other words, you don't know or dont't have an answer.

No, in other words:

1. I was on my tablet at the time, and it's hard to keep going back and forth with you and BTB, in what some might term a circle-****.

2. BTB's recent focus on telling other people how wrong their opinions are, whether in Hillis threads or regarding their "McDaniels bashing" as he calls it, is focusing on, and often slamming/insulting, other posters en mass.

You guys continuing to group together people that disagree with you and toss barbs their way will not change their opinions. Some of us thought McDaniels was screwing up, when he was making the bad moves (you remember, he took a call and said no), but now MANY more in hindsight think he really screwed up and set this franchise back many years.

It is a message board, people are allowed their opinions. You, BTB, Jr/Lonestar and others are allowed to defend and beatify McDaniels, and others are allowed to criticize him. If everyone thought the same, it would be a boring board.

Where it gets dicey is when people start focusing on criticizing others for their opinions. Calling their opinions stupid. Calling their opinions circle ****s. Telling people they are lying about why they hold their opinions. And so on. That's when we cross over from people having opinions, to posters simply being rude to those with different opinions than their own.

So, in other words, take you shitty attitude and cracks like "In other words, you don't know or don't have an answer" and shove them up your McDaniels.

How is that for an "answer"?

:salute:

Tned
07-16-2011, 10:54 PM
Midget is loaded.

Yep, I'm afraid so. Hopefully he gets some :coffee:

tubby
07-16-2011, 10:58 PM
MO are you out of Queff country?

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 11:00 PM
In other words, you don't know or dont't have an answer.

No, in other words:

1. I was on my tablet at the time, and it's hard to keep going back and forth with you and BTB, in what some might term a circle-****.

2. BTB's recent focus on telling other people how wrong their opinions are, whether in Hillis threads or regarding their "McDaniels bashing" as he calls it, is focusing on, and often slamming/insulting, other posters en mass.

You guys continuing to group together people that disagree with you and toss barbs their way will not change their opinions. Some of us thought McDaniels was screwing up, when he was making the bad moves (you remember, he took a call and said no), but now MANY more in hindsight think he really screwed up and set this franchise back many years.

It is a message board, people are allowed their opinions. You, BTB, Jr/Lonestar and others are allowed to defend and beatify McDaniels, and others are allowed to criticize him. If everyone thought the same, it would be a boring board.

Where it gets dicey is when people start focusing on criticizing others for their opinions. Calling their opinions stupid. Calling their opinions circle ****s. Telling people they are lying about why they hold their opinions. And so on. That's when we cross over from people having opinions, to posters simply being rude to those with different opinions than their own.

So, in other words, take you shitty attitude and cracks like "In other words, you don't know or don't have an answer" and shove them up your McDaniels.

How is that for an "answer"?

:salute:

It is disappointing that people who aren't critical of McDaniels get labeled and singled out and get personally attacked.

The first personal message in this thread was about midgets. Who do you think that was about?

BroncoWave
07-16-2011, 11:00 PM
No, in other words:

1. I was on my tablet at the time, and it's hard to keep going back and forth with you and BTB, in what some might term a circle-****.

2. BTB's recent focus on telling other people how wrong their opinions are, whether in Hillis threads or regarding their "McDaniels bashing" as he calls it, is focusing on, and often slamming/insulting, other posters en mass.

You guys continuing to group together people that disagree with you and toss barbs their way will not change their opinions. Some of us thought McDaniels was screwing up, when he was making the bad moves (you remember, he took a call and said no), but now MANY more in hindsight think he really screwed up and set this franchise back many years.

It is a message board, people are allowed their opinions. You, BTB, Jr/Lonestar and others are allowed to defend and beatify McDaniels, and others are allowed to criticize him. If everyone thought the same, it would be a boring board.

Where it gets dicey is when people start focusing on criticizing others for their opinions. Calling their opinions stupid. Calling their opinions circle ****s. Telling people they are lying about why they hold their opinions. And so on. That's when we cross over from people having opinions, to posters simply being rude to those with different opinions than their own.

So, in other words, take you shitty attitude and cracks like "In other words, you don't know or don't have an answer" and shove them up your McDaniels.

How is that for an "answer"?

:salute:

Where in my circle-jerk post did I say tell anyone their opinion is wrong? And also, how is telling someone their opinion is wrong a personal attack? I though we were supposed to criticize the opinion, and not the giver of the opinion. Am I not correct on that?

Tned
07-16-2011, 11:02 PM
It is disappointing that people who aren't critical of McDaniels get labeled and singled out and get personally attacked.

The first personal message in this thread was about midgets. Who do you think that was about?

MO, I'm going to do you a favor and not reply to any more of your posts tonight.

tubby
07-16-2011, 11:04 PM
MO, I'm going to do you a favor and not reply to any more of your posts tonight.

Off your high horse. Perfect. :salute:

Tned
07-16-2011, 11:05 PM
Where in my circle-jerk post did I say tell anyone their opinion is wrong? And also, how is telling someone their opinion is wrong a personal attack? I though we were supposed to criticize the opinion, and not the giver of the opinion. Am I not correct on that?

I was lumping a bunch of things together in response to MO's smart ass post, including where some poster(s) have been saying things like "X posters opinion is supid", which is not ok.

Voicing a different opinion is great. It gets murky where rather than just offering a counter opinion, people start attacking, criticizing, insulting other posters for holding that opinion. I'm sure you can see the difference.

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 11:05 PM
MO are you out of Queff country?

Yup.

BroncoWave
07-16-2011, 11:08 PM
I was lumping a bunch of things together in response to MO's smart ass post, including where some poster(s) have been saying things like "X posters opinion is supid", which is not ok.

Voicing a different opinion is great. It gets murky where rather than just offering a counter opinion, people start attacking, criticizing, insulting other posters for holding that opinion. I'm sure you can see the difference.

You know what's also against the rules? Your off-topic baiting in post #121, but you seemed to have no problem making that post.

tubby
07-16-2011, 11:09 PM
Yup.

Finally. :beer:

How drunk are the Husker fans on taking the Big 10 this year? #taylormartinezsucks

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 11:09 PM
It smells like Bear in here.

Nah. I'm detecting more of a carney, maybe gay midget smell now.

I am at fault.

MOtorboat
07-16-2011, 11:11 PM
Yup.

Finally. :beer:

How drunk are the Husker fans on taking the Big 10 this year? #taylormartinezsucks

They think they are winning the Big 10. I think they are right. Tned thinks thats a personal attack against every other conference.

tubby
07-16-2011, 11:12 PM
Dude atwater is the biggest cutler cweer fan boi on the board. Flaming him isn't even worth it at this point for obvious reasons.

Tned
07-16-2011, 11:12 PM
You know what's also against the rules? Your off-topic baiting in post #121, but you seemed to have no problem making that post.

I was just "calling a spade a spade." You of all people should be able to appreciate that. Right? :confused:

What's with the angry chip on your shoulder causing you to lash out at other posters? Something you want to talk about? My shoulder (via PM) is available if you need to talk about it.

BroncoWave
07-16-2011, 11:15 PM
I was just "calling a spade a spade." You of all people should be able to appreciate that. Right? :confused:

What's with the angry chip on your shoulder causing you to lash out at other posters? Something you want to talk about? My shoulder (via PM) is available if you need to talk about it.

I have no problem with that post, but you're the one who is so adamant that the rules be followed, so one would think you'd practice what you preach.

And you can leave the condescending remarks at the door.

tubby
07-16-2011, 11:17 PM
They think they are winning the Big 10. I think they are right. Tned thinks thats a personal attack against every other conference.

Oh boy. MO don't go down that road. The Big Red brainwash force is strong.

I went to the 2007 game against USC. Night game. By the time we walked into the staduim I was convinced they stood a change. Then kickoff happened. It was funny.

BeefStew25
07-16-2011, 11:18 PM
Casey Anthony is out.

Nomad
07-16-2011, 11:21 PM
Casey Anthony is out.

Feed her birth control!!!

tubby
07-16-2011, 11:22 PM
USC out rushed Nebraska 313-31. The USC fight song was stuck in my head for a week. #beatdown

BeefStew25
07-16-2011, 11:23 PM
Feed her birth control!!!

That definitely won't be the first thing in her mouth.

Tned
07-17-2011, 12:08 AM
And you can leave the condescending remarks at the door.

And now you get the point. It's fine to have a different opinion than others, but constant condescending barbs thrown at those with opinions different than yours is counterproductive to good discussion.

Davii
07-17-2011, 12:14 AM
So, the moral of this thread.... I now know 4 people that live away from Denver with season tickets, my chances of finding someone to buy tickets from when I am able to visit Denver have quadrupled.

atwater27
07-17-2011, 12:47 AM
Dude atwater is the biggest cutler cweer fan boi on the board. Flaming him isn't even worth it at this point for obvious reasons.

That's right bitch. suck it.

BeefStew25
07-17-2011, 12:54 AM
Davii, mi ducats es tu ducats.

Canmore
07-17-2011, 02:47 AM
Back to the thread topic... Who doesn't think McDaniels wasn't cheating and not just in London?

Lonestar
07-17-2011, 03:49 AM
Why are you so convinced that McDaniels played no part in the decision? Is it just a feeling you have regarding Nolan being responsible or do you have any actual evidence?

Since you're saying it was either Nolan or Xanders (a new theory), I suspect that you're very reluctant to place any blame on McDaniels. You always talk about using logic and logic says that as the ultimate decision maker, Fields would not have played such a large role without McDaniels' blessing.

Never said Josh did not ok the move but think in these terms. He hires Nolan after it was decided to go with the 3-4 defense. What the hell we have almostzero talent on that side of the ball anyway. They discuss who they need to make the transistion nLoan says he had a NT in SFO that wil be the keystone of the defense and can be had for a reasonable amount as a FA.

Now if the guy you just hired says that or something close to it and after bringing him only to find out he is a stiff, how would you react. A touted ex HC is fil of crap when making personnel desisions ns

Lonestar
07-17-2011, 03:51 AM
Sorry about that fat fingers hit the submit.

What else would you then be questioning about this guy?

Davii
07-17-2011, 04:13 AM
Back to the thread topic... Who doesn't think McDaniels wasn't cheating and not just in London?

I don't know if he was or not. However, if he was, he was worse at cheating than he was as a HC or GM.

Tned
07-17-2011, 06:53 AM
I don't know if he was or not. However, if he was, he was worse at cheating than he was as a HC or GM.

Agreed. What was he, 5-17 after the 6-0 start? If that's his record cheating, WTH would it have been playing honest?

FWIW, while it's impossible to know, I tend to believe McDaniels account of what happened. I think it was likely a crime of opportunity, so to speak, where the video guy was setting up, so the opportunity and started filming, rather than it being a coordinated, systemic cheating scandal. My guess (and that's all it is) is that McDaniels was only guilty of trying to cover it up when his guy brought him the tape.

spikerman
07-17-2011, 12:21 PM
Agreed. What was he, 5-17 after the 6-0 start? If that's his record cheating, WTH would it have been playing honest?

FWIW, while it's impossible to know, I tend to believe McDaniels account of what happened. I think it was likely a crime of opportunity, so to speak, where the video guy was setting up, so the opportunity and started filming, rather than it being a coordinated, systemic cheating scandal. My guess (and that's all it is) is that McDaniels was only guilty of trying to cover it up when his guy brought him the tape.

While that may be true, I have to wonder why the video guy felt comfortable enough to bring McDaniels the tape. Even if McD didn't order the taping it's apparent to me that the environment he created did not dissuade this type of behavior.

tubby
07-17-2011, 02:28 PM
That's right bitch. suck it.

your mom is a lousy lay

Ravage!!!
07-17-2011, 04:40 PM
Agreed. What was he, 5-17 after the 6-0 start? If that's his record cheating, WTH would it have been playing honest?

FWIW, while it's impossible to know, I tend to believe McDaniels account of what happened. I think it was likely a crime of opportunity, so to speak, where the video guy was setting up, so the opportunity and started filming, rather than it being a coordinated, systemic cheating scandal. My guess (and that's all it is) is that McDaniels was only guilty of trying to cover it up when his guy brought him the tape.

Perhaps. Although its pretty interesting that this video guy was one that was involved in the OTHER video scandal. Its almost like it's an unspoken agreement. "Ok, you know when there are opportunities, and I know when their are opportunities. Although I can't directly tell you when to tape the other team, you already know when to tape the other team. So officially, I've never told you to ever tape the other team...but....well... tape the other team."

Canmore
07-17-2011, 04:44 PM
Perhaps. Although its pretty interesting that this video guy was one that was involved in the OTHER video scandal. Its almost like it's an unspoken agreement. "Ok, you know when there are opportunities, and I know when their are opportunities. Although I can't directly tell you when to tape the other team, you already know when to tape the other team. So officially, I've never told you to ever tape the other team...but....well... tape the other team."

Lol. I think there may be a hint of truth in your analysis. If the opportunity presents itself you didn't hear it from me. :laugh:

rationalfan
07-17-2011, 06:41 PM
Anyone remember when shanny cheated with the salary cap? Not much difference between shanny and mcd cheating - both got caught. Only one difference, shanny won games when he was busted.

My point: if mcd had won 63 percent of his games y'all would love him. Even if he was busted cheating. Even with his new England roots.

Dzone
07-17-2011, 07:08 PM
Anyone remember when shanny cheated with the salary cap? Not much difference between shanny and mcd cheating - both got caught. Only one difference, shanny won games when he was busted.

My point: if mcd had won 63 percent of his games y'all would love him. Even if he was busted cheating. Even with his new England roots.
oh hell ya. If we were winning and dominating teams gettin to the playoffs with mcdaNIels, we would forgive all his sins..LOL

Tned
07-17-2011, 07:18 PM
oh hell ya. If we were winning and dominating teams gettin to the playoffs with mcdaNIels, we would forgive all his sins..LOL

That and the two things aren't comparable. Manipulating the cap, which San Fran also did, is much different than video taping and cheating to win a game.

atwater27
07-17-2011, 08:04 PM
Anyone remember when shanny cheated with the salary cap? .

True Bronco fans don't speak of this.:tsk:

Ravage!!!
07-17-2011, 08:06 PM
Anyone remember when shanny cheated with the salary cap? Not much difference between shanny and mcd cheating - both got caught. Only one difference, shanny won games when he was busted.

My point: if mcd had won 63 percent of his games y'all would love him. Even if he was busted cheating. Even with his new England roots.

It wasn't shanahan that didn't send the deferred payments.

rationalfan
07-17-2011, 08:40 PM
That and the two things aren't comparable. Manipulating the cap, which San Fran also did, is much different than video taping and cheating to win a game.

Cheating is cheating.

Tned
07-17-2011, 08:43 PM
Cheating is cheating.

That's like saying jay walking, speeding, rape and murder are all crimes and therefore equal.

Thanks for playing -- please play again...

rationalfan
07-17-2011, 09:01 PM
That's like saying jay walking, speeding, rape and murder are all crimes and therefore equal.

Thanks for playing -- please play again...

Not the same. And I don't have the patience to explain why.

Again, shanny and mcd each cheated in an attempt to gain competitive advantages. They had the same intent. I can't make it much more simple.

Tned
07-17-2011, 09:07 PM
Not the same. And I don't have the patience to explain why.

Again, shanny and mcd each cheated in an attempt to gain competitive advantages. They had the same intent. I can't make it much more simple.

It's not about patience, it's about you being wrong.

It's ridiculous to equate a grey area of the CBA regarding salary cap where deferred payments were used, and it took years to sort out and penalize, with video taping a practice. I do have the patience to explain it, so please let me know what part is confusing and I will explain it in more detail.

rationalfan
07-17-2011, 09:19 PM
It's not about patience, it's about you being wrong.

It's ridiculous to equate a grey area of the CBA regarding salary cap where deferred payments were used, and it took years to sort out and penalize, with video taping a practice. I do have the patience to explain it, so please let me know what part is confusing and I will explain it in more detail.

The idea of comparing menial laws to societal moral targets, then equating that to rules for a game that really has no affect on our existence is what i would deem wrong.

And if you think shanny's salary cap infractions were minor cheats talk to some fans from other afc west teams; my friends bitch about that WAY more than mcd's video work, and it's because that team was winning. Coincidence? Probably. But tell that to the fans of teams that were by beat by cheating broncos.

MOtorboat
07-17-2011, 09:35 PM
Cheating the salary cap to get better players is just as severe as taping a walk-through.

Personally, I'd say the cheating the salary cap is worse because that effects an entire season and not just one game.

Now, as a fan...I'm nore pissed at McDaniels, but that's about winning and losing vs. cheating. I could care less, and I would guarantee McDaniels would still have his job, regardless of cheating, if Denver was 10-6.

BeefStew25
07-17-2011, 09:36 PM
If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

Tned
07-17-2011, 09:36 PM
The idea of comparing menial laws to societal moral targets, then equating that to rules for a game that really has no affect on our existence is what i would deem wrong.

And if you think shanny's salary cap infractions were minor cheats talk to some fans from other afc west teams; my friends bitch about that WAY more than mcd's video work, and it's because that team was winning. Coincidence? Probably. But tell that to the fans of teams that were by beat by cheating broncos.

Yes, the AFCW competition whines about that, because the Broncos were winning (those HOF's had little to do with it). Now, how about the fans of 31 teams that rail against Belicheck and New England for Spygate. No comparison.

As to my analogy, it was sound. You are making the case that ANY and all cheating is equal, and that simply isn't true, just like it isn't true that all broken laws are equivalent.

Ravage!!!
07-17-2011, 09:38 PM
The idea of comparing menial laws to societal moral targets, then equating that to rules for a game that really has no affect on our existence is what i would deem wrong.

And if you think shanny's salary cap infractions were minor cheats talk to some fans from other afc west teams; my friends bitch about that WAY more than mcd's video work, and it's because that team was winning. Coincidence? Probably. But tell that to the fans of teams that were by beat by cheating broncos.

Lol...

Weird. The NFL agreed to the contracts, as alllllll NFL contracts have to be agreed upon by the league. So the NFL agreed to these " cheating" contracts, it takes them 7 years to get through the mumbo jumbo to determine if there actually WAS cheating.....and even then the NFL acknowledged that it wasn't intentional. Yet you want to take your friends perception as if it's some kind of unbiased perception?

Tned
07-17-2011, 09:45 PM
Cheating the salary cap to get better players is just as severe as taping a walk-through.

Personally, I'd say the cheating the salary cap is worse because that effects an entire season and not just one game.

Now, as a fan...I'm nore pissed at McDaniels, but that's about winning and losing vs. cheating. I could care less, and I would guarantee McDaniels would still have his job, regardless of cheating, if Denver was 10-6.

Depends on what "cheating the salary cap" means. In the Broncos case, it wasn't about signing more players, but helping Bowlen's cash flow. They were deferring salaries to help team cash flow, with a promise to not cut the players until the deferred money was paid. It's an agreement that was not allowed.

To the best of my knowledge, the league never claimed they gained any advantage from it, but instead said it was done to help Bowlen's cash flow.

Further, it took about 6 years to sort through it and even figure out if it was truly a violation. The team lost two third round picks, for the two separate instances.

New England on the other hand lost a first round pick, and Belicheck was personally fined $500k, and the team the same or less (can't remember).

The Broncos were wrong, even though it was a grey area, but to claim it's the same as taping practices and coaching signals on the sideline to gain an on field/in game edge, is logic I can't comprehend.

TXBRONC
07-17-2011, 09:49 PM
Lol...

Weird. The NFL agreed to the contracts, as alllllll NFL contracts have to be agreed upon by the league. So the NFL agreed to these " cheating" contracts, it takes them 7 years to get through the mumbo jumbo to determine if there actually WAS cheating.....and even then the NFL acknowledged that it wasn't intentional. Yet you want to take your friends perception as if it's some kind of unbiased perception?

Good point.

MOtorboat
07-17-2011, 09:53 PM
Cheating the salary cap to get better players is just as severe as taping a walk-through.

Personally, I'd say the cheating the salary cap is worse because that effects an entire season and not just one game.

Now, as a fan...I'm nore pissed at McDaniels, but that's about winning and losing vs. cheating. I could care less, and I would guarantee McDaniels would still have his job, regardless of cheating, if Denver was 10-6.

Depends on what "cheating the salary cap" means. In the Broncos case, it wasn't about signing more players, but helping Bowlen's cash flow. They were deferring salaries to help team cash flow, with a promise to not cut the players until the deferred money was paid. It's an agreement that was not allowed.

To the best of my knowledge, the league never claimed they gained any advantage from it, but instead said it was done to help Bowlen's cash flow.

Further, it took about 6 years to sort through it and even figure out if it was truly a violation. The team lost two third round picks, for the two separate instances.

New England on the other hand lost a first round pick, and Belicheck was personally fined $500k, and the team the same or less (can't remember).

The Broncos were wrong, even though it was a grey area, but to claim it's the same as taping practices and coaching signals on the sideline to gain an on field/in game edge, is logic I can't comprehend.

They both cheated. Shanahan cost Denver draft picks. McDaniels cost the franchise nothing.

Clearly the NFL thought one was worse than the other. I don't care about the Patriots.

Now, if the NFL takes a first round draft pick two years from now from Denver for grievances, I will agree, but until then, the NFL deemed Shanahan's regressions worse than McDaniels.

rationalfan
07-17-2011, 09:56 PM
I love this place. Great entertainment.

Tned
07-17-2011, 09:56 PM
They both cheated. Shanahan cost Denver draft picks. McDaniels cost the franchise nothing.

Clearly the NFL thought one was worse than the other. I don't care about the Patriots.

Now, if the NFL takes a first round draft pick two years from now from Denver for grievances, I will agree, but until then, the NFL deemed Shanahan's regressions worse than McDaniels.

The point of New England is the comparison of the "type" of cheating. Surely you can see that fact. What the Denver video guy did was akin to what the New England guy did. The fact that the league believed it was a one time incident, by one guy (which I also believe), saved the Broncos.

TXBRONC
07-17-2011, 09:58 PM
The point of New England is the comparison of the "type" of cheating. Surely you can see that fact. What the Denver video guy did was akin to what the New England guy did. The fact that the league believed it was a one time incident, by one guy (which I also believe), saved the Broncos.

The New England guy and the Denver guy are the same person.

Tned
07-17-2011, 10:00 PM
The New England guy and the Denver guy are one in the same.

Yep, McDaniels hired him. Doesn't mean McD was aware of the filming in London. My opinion is that McDaniels was only guilty of not reporting the filming immediately, and trying to cover for his friend.

MOtorboat
07-17-2011, 10:02 PM
They both cheated. Shanahan cost Denver draft picks. McDaniels cost the franchise nothing.

Clearly the NFL thought one was worse than the other. I don't care about the Patriots.

Now, if the NFL takes a first round draft pick two years from now from Denver for grievances, I will agree, but until then, the NFL deemed Shanahan's regressions worse than McDaniels.

The point of New England is the comparison of the "type" of cheating. Surely you can see that fact. What the Denver video guy did was akin to what the New England guy did. The fact that the league believed it was a one time incident, by one guy (which I also believe), saved the Broncos.

I understand that, and somewhat agree, but the NFL says one is worse than the other, and that was Shanahan's regressions.

It's not fair to lump McDaniels into the New England video taping without substantial proof. Now, you're on me in another thread about proof, and here you've got none and are insisting I should, essentially, take your word for it.

TXBRONC
07-17-2011, 10:19 PM
Yep, McDaniels hired him. Doesn't mean McD was aware of the filming in London. My opinion is that McDaniels was only guilty of not reporting the filming immediately, and trying to cover for his friend.

Certainly nothing more than that can be proven but give the shared history I don't think it's quite cut and dry.

Canmore
07-17-2011, 10:23 PM
Certainly nothing more than that can be proven but give the shared history I don't think it's quite cut and dry.

I certainly wonder.

TXBRONC
07-17-2011, 10:24 PM
I understand that, and somewhat agree, but the NFL says one is worse than the other, and that was Shanahan's regressions.

It's not fair to lump McDaniels into the New England video taping without substantial proof. Now, you're on me in another thread about proof, and here you've got none and are insisting I should, essentially, take your word for it.

Yes it's more than fair.

http://multimedia.foxsports.com/m/video/35500184/glazer-s-edge-spygate-2.htm

MOtorboat
07-17-2011, 10:29 PM
I understand that, and somewhat agree, but the NFL says one is worse than the other, and that was Shanahan's regressions.

It's not fair to lump McDaniels into the New England video taping without substantial proof. Now, you're on me in another thread about proof, and here you've got none and are insisting I should, essentially, take your word for it.

Yes it's more than fair.

http://multimedia.foxsports.com/m/video/35500184/glazer-s-edge-spygate-2.htm

I've learned that reports that support anti-McDaniels sentiments are absolutely correct and complete gospel and that reports that might show it wasn't as bad as many want it to be are terrible, sensationalist journalism.

At this point, I don't know what to believe.

Of course, Glazer's report should be taken at gospel, but Riley's report on Cutler/Elway is pure bullshit...

TXBRONC
07-17-2011, 10:43 PM
I've learned that reports that support anti-McDaniels sentiments are absolutely correct and complete gospel and that reports that might show it wasn't as bad as many want it to be are terrible, sensationalist journalism.

At this point, I don't know what to believe.

Of course, Glazer's report should be taken at gospel, but Riley's report on Cutler/Elway is pure bullshit...

So is it always sensationism if you don't like it?

I haven't seen one report that says that McDaniels did say that to his staff. McDaniels himself didn't deny it. If you have something that refute Glazer's please lay it out there I would love to see.

MOtorboat
07-17-2011, 10:55 PM
I've learned that reports that support anti-McDaniels sentiments are absolutely correct and complete gospel and that reports that might show it wasn't as bad as many want it to be are terrible, sensationalist journalism.

At this point, I don't know what to believe.

Of course, Glazer's report should be taken at gospel, but Riley's report on Cutler/Elway is pure bullshit...

So is it always sensationism if you don't like it?

I haven't seen one report that says that McDaniels did say that to his staff. McDaniels himself didn't deny it. If you have something that refute Glazer's please lay it out there I would love to see.

So you're taking Glazer's report as gospel.

That's fine, I just don't ever want to hear you question another journalist's report on complete speculation. They should all be taken as gospel.

Especially Riley's report that Elway did not like Cutler when he met him.

TXBRONC
07-17-2011, 11:16 PM
So you're taking Glazer's report as gospel.

That's fine, I just don't ever want to hear you question another journalist's report on complete speculation. They should all be taken as gospel.

Especially Riley's report that Elway did not like Cutler when he met him.


You don't like his report so has to be complete speculation? If you're going to call it complete speculation then you should offer of something that could refute Glazer's reporting. Btw Glazer said he spoke with one inside the organization that was privy to what McDaniels said so that's not speculation.

In the press conference the following Monday McDaniels said something to the effect that "My staff and I like to keep things private." That's not a denial.

It's way over the top to say I'm taking gospel truth. You criticize me for it but you haven't offered anything that would contradict Glazer report.

atwater27
07-18-2011, 12:13 AM
If any of you Broncos fans have a problem with Denver's back to back Super Bowl wins, let me know. The players getting deferred payment were not going to sign elsewhere if they didn't get the payment. All they were doing was taking care of the players who took care of the fans. You got a problem with it, go binge drinking with Al Davis and let it all out. Because you have more in common with him than any of us.

rationalfan
07-18-2011, 10:07 AM
If any of you Broncos fans have a problem with Denver's back to back Super Bowl wins, let me know. The players getting deferred payment were not going to sign elsewhere if they didn't get the payment. All they were doing was taking care of the players who took care of the fans. You got a problem with it, go binge drinking with Al Davis and let it all out. Because you have more in common with him than any of us.

this is the kind of thinking that ensures progress never gets made. we can question and criticize the team and still support/love the broncos.

atwater27
07-18-2011, 06:02 PM
this is the kind of thinking that ensures progress never gets made. we can question and criticize the team and still support/love the broncos.

So where is your petition calling for the stripping of Denver's 2 Super Bowl titles due to cheating?

nevcraw
07-18-2011, 07:37 PM
Yep, McDaniels hired him. Doesn't mean McD was aware of the filming in London. My opinion is that McDaniels was only guilty of not reporting the filming immediately, and trying to cover for his friend.

Wait! wasn't all knowing all seeeing Mcd doing everthing in Denver? taping feet, taping practises, negotiating contracts, scouting, etc. etc. :laugh:

Canmore
07-18-2011, 07:55 PM
Wait! wasn't all knowing all seeeing Mcd doing everthing in Denver? taping feet, taping practises, negotiating contracts, scouting, etc. etc. :laugh:

Every time I look at this thread title I think...because he was. :tsk:

Dzone
07-18-2011, 09:19 PM
Mcdaniels was horrifically insecure and knew he was not qualified to be a head coach

Brakshow
07-18-2011, 09:25 PM
Ya I don't doubt that at all during that game....but damn it sure was fun to watch lol

Tned
07-18-2011, 09:45 PM
Wait! wasn't all knowing all seeeing Mcd doing everthing in Denver? taping feet, taping practises, negotiating contracts, scouting, etc. etc. :laugh:

Your failed attempt at quality sarcasm aside, I never said he was doing it all, and as I've said multiple times, I don't think he ordered the filming (purely opinion, no facts to base it on).

However, it doesn't change how wrong you are in terms of claiming since someone else hands McD a scouting report, that trying to trade for Cassel, or failing to play Hillis, or any number of dozens of other blunders were not his fault.

Nice try, please play again...

nevcraw
07-18-2011, 09:54 PM
Your failed attempt at quality sarcasm aside, I never said he was doing it all, and as I've said multiple times, I don't think he ordered the filming (purely opinion, no facts to base it on).

However, it doesn't change how wrong you are in terms of claiming since someone else hands McD a scouting report, that trying to trade for Cassel, or failing to play Hillis, or any number of dozens of other blunders were not his fault.

Nice try, please play again...

I know.. He was Colonel Jessep. He ordered the code red. got it!

But...the General manager of the denver broncos just hands out scouting reports... right.
as the head db in charge Mcd deserved the lion share of blame. I have stated that from day one one but that does excuse Xanders or others for doing his bad biddings.

spikerman
07-18-2011, 09:58 PM
I know.. He was Colonel Jessep. He ordered the code red. got it!

But...the General manager of the denver broncos just hands out scouting reports... right.
as the head db in charge Mcd deserved the lion share of blame. I have stated that from day one one but that does excuse Xanders or others for doing his bad biddings.

I think Xanders' role in the whole fiasco of the past two years is up for debate. I would not doubt for a second that he was involved in the decision making, but if the decisions were ultimately McDaniels' (as they appeared to be) then Xanders had little choice but to go along. We've seen what happens to Broncos employees (Nolan and a whole host of players, for example) who didn't agree with the boss.

I'm not saying Xanders was blameless, I'm just not sure he was in a position to stop the train wreck he was witnessing.

Tned
07-18-2011, 09:59 PM
I know.. He was Colonel Jessep. He ordered the code red. got it!

But...the General manager of the denver broncos just hands out scouting reports... right.
as the head db in charge Mcd deserved the lion share of blame. I have stated that from day one one but that does excuse Xanders or others for doing his bad biddings.

Newsflash -- Bowlen, Ellis and Elway disagree. Their opinion (and knowledge of what actually happened) trumps yours.

nevcraw
07-18-2011, 11:20 PM
I think Xanders' role in the whole fiasco of the past two years is up for debate. I would not doubt for a second that he was involved in the decision making, but if the decisions were ultimately McDaniels' (as they appeared to be) then Xanders had little choice but to go along. We've seen what happens to Broncos employees (Nolan and a whole host of players, for example) who didn't agree with the boss.

I'm not saying Xanders was blameless, I'm just not sure he was in a position to stop the train wreck he was witnessing.

Thanks for being open minded spikerman. My only goal was to have people embrace the possibility that although one guy was pulling the strings others may have been complicit. do i know what went down.. no. but to be complicit could be as easy as knowlledge of said wrong doing. and there is a high probability that the General manager of the Denver Broncos was atleast in knowledge of bad decisions being made.

nevcraw
07-18-2011, 11:25 PM
Newsflash -- Bowlen, Ellis and Elway disagree. Their opinion (and knowledge of what actually happened) trumps yours.

Thanks Tned! May your belief in lone gunmen and flat worlds make you feel xtra safe and secure! Sleep tight!

Tned
07-18-2011, 11:29 PM
Thanks Tned! May the lone gunmen and the flat worlds make you feel safe and secure! Sleep tight!

In the previous post you talk about just wanting people to embrace possibilities, but you have proven to be extremely closed minded in your 'imagined' scenario.

Now, you are comparing insinuating some type of conspiracy among Bowlen, Elway and Ellis when it comes to Xanders. Somehow they are getting together to fool fans into believing Xanders did no wrong, when in reality he was complicit... Oh, my, why would they trick us so -- please tell me it ain't so...

Think about what you're saying/implying.

Lonestar
07-18-2011, 11:41 PM
While that may be true, I have to wonder why the video guy felt comfortable enough to bring McDaniels the tape. Even if McD didn't order the taping it's apparent to me that the environment he created did not dissuade this type of behavior.

I have to believe that when he was hired he was warned not to do that stuff as it was not allowed.

Why Josh did not immediately bring it to someones attention is beyond my grasp. but then he had lots of other things on his plate at the time, like trying to win games..

Tned
07-18-2011, 11:47 PM
I have to believe that when he was hired he was warned not to do that stuff as it was not allowed.

Why Josh did not immediately bring it to someones attention is beyond my grasp. but then he had lots of other things on his plate at the time, like trying to win games..

I believe he admitted to trying to cover for the guy. It had nothing to do with trying to win a game. There were NFL officials, including the commissioner, in London, he could have made one phone call and addressed it.

If we take what joshy said at face value, and I do, he felt he had handled it by reprimanding the guy, refusing to take the tape and telling him to never do it again. I think it was more a case of trying to help out a long time colleague, and maybe friend, than it was of being too busy.

nevcraw
07-18-2011, 11:54 PM
In the previous post you talk about just wanting people to embrace possibilities, but you have proven to be extremely closed minded in your 'imagined' scenario.

Now, you are comparing insinuating some type of conspiracy among Bowlen, Elway and Ellis when it comes to Xanders. Somehow they are getting together to fool fans into believing Xanders did no wrong, when in reality he was complicit... Oh, my, why would they trick us so -- please tell me it ain't so...



Think about what you're saying/implying.
hardly --- I still don't think you get my point.Did Bowlen & Ellis ever say what Xanders roles were? Nope.. they say Mcd was calling the shots. that was it.
Are they infallable? misled? could they be forgiving? see more good than bad in Xanders? whatever..
there are a gaziilion scenarios of him having involvment / knowledge etc that makes more sense than one guy at the top acting alone in all matters of concern. Corporations just don't work that way and this one has spent a considerable amount of PR time to clear his name if he was in fact just a schlep.

I will leave this it alone now.. we aren't going to change each others mind. no biggie..
time will tell on what is Xanders overall worth to the franchise and here's hoping he helps Elway and Fox build a winner again!

atwater27
07-18-2011, 11:55 PM
but then he had lots of other things on his plate at the time, like trying to win games..

So how'd he do JR?

Tned
07-19-2011, 12:29 AM
hardly --- I still don't think you get my point.Did Bowlen & Ellis ever say what Xanders roles were? Nope.. they say Mcd was calling the shots. that was it.
Are they infallable? misled? could they be forgiving? see more good than bad in Xanders? whatever..
there are a gaziilion scenarios of him having involvment / knowledge etc that makes more sense than one guy at the top acting alone in all matters of concern. Corporations just don't work that way and this one has spent a considerable amount of PR time to clear his name if he was in fact just a schlep.

I will leave this it alone now.. we aren't going to change each others mind. no biggie..
time will tell on what is Xanders overall worth to the franchise and here's hoping he helps Elway and Fox build a winner again!

For starters, Elway said that Xanders was never given the chance to be a GM other than in name only (paraphrasing, but that's very close). Ellis said that McDaniels, like every other coach Bowlen has hired, was given full control, and that was a mistake. They didn't separate the player/personnel decisions from the HC decisions.

Beyond that, I have absolutely NO idea what point you were trying to make, because you mostly just seemed to be argumentative, rather than offering any facts or details based on what "we know."

At this point, the best you can offer is that Xanders, Elway and Ellis have lied or in other ways covered for Xanders, which unless Xanders is Bowlen's illegitimate son, or is blackmailing Ellis, doesn't seem like a very likely scenario.

I really fail to see why you guys railing on Xanders and saying he should have been fired, don't just have a little faith that Elway and Ellis know a little more about what went on than we do, and have a much better feel for whether or not Xanders can help the team than we do, and realize that these guys wouldn't have kept him on unless they believed he would help them get back to winning football.

Maybe there is something to that whole Acoms Razor thing...

BeefStew25
07-19-2011, 12:31 AM
Maybe Elway knew he would have to go looking for a figure head GM, and after careful thoughts, realized he already had one in the building.

I dunno. Just start the season.

Tned
07-19-2011, 12:51 AM
Maybe Elway knew he would have to go looking for a figure head GM, and after careful thoughts, realized he already had one in the building.

I dunno. Just start the season.

Ok, I didn't think I would ever say this to one of your posts, but...

I think you might have hit on the most sensible solution of the bunch. Dammit man, I think you are right!