Fox's poker tells aren't very good.

[Bullgator]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/28838/john-fox-expects-a-lot-out-of-his-running-game

VERY easy to see Tebow will be under center... or else how in the HELL are you going to have "The most sophisticated running team in the league" with limpy leggs KO and noshow?

not sure I agree but looks like hes going to run Teebs.

[LordTrychon]

Aka 'merge me'.

[TXBRONC]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/28838/john-fox-expects-a-lot-out-of-his-running-game

VERY easy to see Tebow will be under center... or else how in the HELL are you going to have "The most sophisticated running team in the league" with limpy leggs KO and noshow?

not sure I agree but looks like hes going to run Teebs.

Not from that blog.

Mods this thread is based off the exact same article that another based off of.

[Ravage!!!]

because everybody knows that in the NFL you don't figure your QB to be a RB and running game.

[atwater27]

Fox's Poker Tells aren't any Good

Gator's threads aren't very good.

P.S. and any self respecting fan of Tim would most definitely not call him 'Teebs'.

[Ravage!!!]

not sure I agree but looks like hes going to run Teebs.

"not sure I agree" :shocked: :lol:

[TXBRONC]

"not sure I agree" :shocked: :lol:


When pigs :flypig:.

[broncobryce]

because everybody knows that in the NFL you don't figure your QB to be a RB and running game.

No, but you don't think vick had anything to do with the falcons leading the nfl in rushing a few years back? I'm thinking his 900+ yards from the QB position helped.

Its very possible he's factoring tebow into the equation.

[Ravage!!!]

No, but you don't think vick had anything to do with the falcons leading the nfl in rushing a few years back? I'm thinking his 900+ yards from the QB position helped.

Its very possible he's factoring tebow into the equation.

Possibly, but I hope not. I don't want the QB to be leading the team in rushing yards, thats how you lose. This is a passing league, and if our QB is leading in rushing that's the first sign of a LOT of things going wrong.

Not to mention, Vick was hurt a LOT throughout his career because of him rushing so much. Not to mention, Tebow isn't even CLOSE to Vick's speed and elusiveness.

So I'm hoping that although having a mobile QB is a plus, that we aren't counting his rushing to be a big part of this offense.

[Canmore]

Possibly, but I hope not. I don't want the QB to be leading the team in rushing yards, thats how you lose. This is a passing league, and if our QB is leading in rushing that's the first sign of a LOT of things going wrong.

Not to mention, Vick was hurt a LOT throughout his career because of him rushing so much. Not to mention, Tebow isn't even CLOSE to Vick's speed and elusiveness.

So I'm hoping that although having a mobile QB is a plus, that we aren't counting his rushing to be a big part of this offense.

Scrambling around to buy time to throw is one thing, rushing from the quarterback position is another. I'm hoping for the former and very little of the latter.

[chazoe60]

"limpy legs" KO :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Ravage!!!]

Scrambling around to buy time to throw is one thing, rushing from the quarterback position is another. I'm hoping for the former and very little of the latter.

Exactly. :beer:

[T.K.O.]

or maybe he has secretly struck a deal with Deangelo Williams :D

[TXBRONC]

Scrambling around to buy time to throw is one thing, rushing from the quarterback position is another. I'm hoping for the former and very little of the latter.

The Tebowites might think it would work to have a quarterback as a major contributor to the rushing attack but I doubt Fox does.

[Canmore]

The Tebowites might think it would work to have a quarterback as a major contributor to the rushing attack but I doubt Fox does.

I would be surprised if Tebow is a major component of the ground game. The lineman and linebakers in the NFL are fast, big, mean and nasty. They feast on lighting up quarterbacks. Especially running ones. I know Tebow is big and strong but he won't last long being a runningback imo.

[T.K.O.]

I just want to see him run for a touchdown.......


a superbowl game winning touchdown !


is that too much to ask ?:D:beer::elefant:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/28838/john-fox-expects-a-lot-out-of-his-running-game

VERY easy to see Tebow will be under center... or else how in the HELL are you going to have "The most sophisticated running team in the league" with limpy leggs KO and noshow?

not sure I agree but looks like hes going to run Teebs.

So, from the link you posted, which by the way, is included in the other thread very similiar to this, the article states the following:


The Broncos have 2009 first-round pick Knowshon Moreno, who has struggled to stay healthy and to show he can be a workhorse. Clearly, Denver is looking help for Moreno. The free-agent running backs (depending on how the new CBA is designed) Denver will look at could include DeAngelo Williams, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown. DeAngelo Williams played for Fox in Carolina.

Whoever is brought in, Fox clearly has high expectations. Check out what he added in the interview with the Denver Post:"We will have the most sophisticated running team in the league."

With the above, from the link you posted, which mentions ONLY running backs, you feel CERTAIN, even though Tebow is NOT mentioned, that this 100% indicates that Tebow will be the starter - INTERESTING, I would assume if the same running backs were mentioned in an article on the Colts, that would indicate that Peyton Manning will now turn into a scrambling quarterback.:eek:

[T.K.O.]

So, from the link you posted, which by the way, is included in the other thread very similiar to this, the article states the following:



With the above, from the link you posted, which mentions ONLY running backs, you feel CERTAIN, even though Tebow is NOT mentioned, that this 100% indicates that Tebow will be the starter - INTERESTING, I would assume if the same running backs were mentioned in an article on the Colts, that would indicate that Peyton Manning will now turn into a scrambling quarterback.:eek:

i kinda wondered that myself.....one could make a case that in order to have "the most sophisticated running attack" there would be some factors introduced that had never been seen. so i guess utilizing the qb could be a part of that.
but it's still a stretch to say this has anything to do with who will be starting behind center

[WARHORSE]

Im sure Fox has no plans to run Tebow like he was used in Floorida.

But Im also sure that Tebows threat to run will produce huge problems for opposing defenses.

Remember when Vick first entered the league?

He wasnt Peyton or Brady, but his ability to run and pass measurably led to alot of wins.


Can Tebow pass as well or better than Vick did in his first few years?

I definitely think he can, and he has a much better work ethic than Vick did early on.

Vick showed himself for the first time last year as more even keeled as a QB.

When Vick sets out running, DBs release, and at times he can make them pay.

I believe Tebow will get to that point quicker than Vick did.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Im sure Fox has no plans to run Tebow like he was used in Floorida.

But Im also sure that Tebows threat to run will produce huge problems for opposing defenses.

Remember when Vick first entered the league?

He wasnt Peyton or Brady, but his ability to run and pass measurably led to alot of wins.


Can Tebow pass as well or better than Vick did in his first few years?

I definitely think he can, and he has a much better work ethic than Vick did early on.

Vick showed himself for the first time last year as more even keeled as a QB.

When Vick sets out running, DBs release, and at times he can make them pay.

I believe Tebow will get to that point quicker than Vick did.

Not disagreeing with anything you said - however, because a coach states he wants a sophisticated running team, that can also be accomplished without the qb running the ball.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah, that 40 yard TD run against the Raiders sucked. We definitely need to scrap any Tebow running plays from our offense.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Yeah, that 40 yard TD run against the Raiders sucked. We definitely need to scrap any Tebow running plays from our offense.

No one is saying to scrap ANY Tebow running plays from the offense :tsk:

[Lonestar]

No, but you don't think vick had anything to do with the falcons leading the nfl in rushing a few years back? I'm thinking his 900+ yards from the QB position helped.

Its very possible he's factoring tebow into the equation.

Iirc Gibbs was coaching there during that time frame. Might be a huge reason also.

[Lonestar]

Hey Carol it is all or nothing didn't you know.

[Shananahan]

Gator's threads aren't very good.

P.S. and any self respecting fan of Tim would most definitely not call him 'Teebs'.
And how has nobody pointed out that the thread title doesn't make any sense? Why would you want to have good tells while playing poker? If his tells weren't good, then you wouldn't know what he was holding or planning to do.

[BeefStew25]

Long term, Tebow doesn't need to be running. He simply won't last.

[MOtorboat]

If Tebow is running the ball, he has problems and this team has problems. He doesnt't change the game like Vick. He has to be a thrower, otherwise, his career will be terrible.

[Bullgator]

The Tebowites might think it would work to have a quarterback as a major contributor to the rushing attack but I doubt Fox does.

You guys are missing the point. He didnt say "best" rushing game or most talented or anything else... he called it "sophisticated"... this implies special, clever scheme wise. the only way you can sophisticate the run game is by adding a dimension (like the wild cat did) that is unique. Bet your ass that includes TT... and not just as a special package, but as a full time threat.

I do not agree that he should pound Tebow 15 times a game, even with misdirection... I think that is a huge waste of his talents. I like play action much more(even if it off of his jab step)...I do think that TT should carry the ball 15 times but that includes scrambling not just called plays... 5-8 called run plays for TT is enough. but anyway looks like he has schemed a special running game that includes TT.

because trust me without TT there is nothing sophisticated about handing the ball off to the running back no matter who that is.

[Bullgator]

Not disagreeing with anything you said - however, because a coach states he wants a sophisticated running team, that can also be accomplished without the qb running the ball.

how would that be accomplished?

[nevcraw]

Tebow is going to run - that is a huge element of his game. He will also be able to use the threat to run can help him set up his passes and buy time.

He will fail if he expected to ever be a prototypical pocket type QB. Now having said that he will need to be atleast proficient in that area of his game if he is going to succeed.

[BeefStew25]

15 runs a game, and he will retire soon. NFL guys will toss his salad.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

how would that be accomplished?

I guess just like any other NFL team who has a great running game, without the QB being the center of attention in it.

[Bullgator]

I guess just like any other NFL team who has a great running game, without the QB being the center of attention in it.

that would not be "the most sophisticated in the league" could be the most successful but not sophisticated

[BeefStew25]

that would not be "the most sophisticated in the league" could be the most successful but not sophisticated

I'll take success over smoke and mirrors.

[nevcraw]

15 runs a game, and he will retire soon. NFL guys will toss his salad.

if he doesnt run he's not going to last long either.

but i do love the prison sex references.

[Bullgator]

I'll take success over smoke and mirrors.

Thats not the point. The point is that Fox showed his hand.

[BroncoWave]

If Tebow is running the ball, he has problems and this team has problems. He doesnt't change the game like Vick. He has to be a thrower, otherwise, his career will be terrible.

Yeah, Steve Young sure had a terrible career running the ball so much.

[BroncoWave]

15 runs a game, and he will retire soon. NFL guys will toss his salad.

Way to randomly pick some absurd number that no one has even suggested he do.

[BroncoWave]

Also, people seem to forget that Tebow is built like a freaking fullback. Does anyone really think he won't be able to take some hits? Hell I've seen some of the same people who said in the past that he should have been a FB or TE (the two most physically demanding skill positions) now saying that he will get killed if he runs it alot as a QB. Am I the only one who sees the irony there? He was able to take the beating in college against SEC defenses for 4 years (many of which featured several future NFL players) and seemed to to just fine with it as a rookie. No one is saying he should run the ball 15 times a game, but I think with 7-8 carries or so per game he will do just fine.

[broncoFan!]

"limpy legs" KO :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Ouch! :D :laugh:

[Shananahan]

He was able to take the beating in college against SEC defenses for 4 years (many of which featured several future NFL players) and seemed to to just fine with it as a rookie.
Well, to be fair, he did get injured right out of the gate during preseason. It wasn't serious, but still...

[BroncoWave]

Well, to be fair, he did get injured right out of the gate during preseason. It wasn't serious, but still...

Exactly. In 5 years of SEC/NFL football he has yet to sustain a serious injury playing the way he does. And seeing as he's built like a FB/TE and given the crazy shape he keeps himself in, I don't see him being a huge risk for serious injury.

[broncoFan!]

Yeah, that 40 yard TD run against the Raiders sucked. We definitely need to scrap any Tebow running plays from our offense.

I should really create a list of all the things the critics told Tebow he wouldn't be able to do in the NFL.

"You can't run in the NFL you will kill yourself trying to do it."

"You can't run a spread offense in the NFL Tebow. It kill's QB's!!"

You can't, you can't, you can't, is all the critics tell him. Can't wait for him to get out there and prove them all wrong!

[TXBRONC]

if he doesnt run he's not going to last long either.

but i do love the prison sex references.

Having good pocket presences and being able to slide away from pressure is more important than the ability to run imho. Having the ability is run is a great asset to have but look guys like Vick he runs a lot but his teams haven't had much success in the playoffs.

[BroncoWave]

Having good pocket presences and being able to slide away from pressure is more important than the ability to run imho. Having the ability is run is a great asset to have but look guys like Vick he runs a lot but his teams haven't had much success in the playoffs.

You mean like being the first QB to EVER lead a team to a road playoff win at Lambeau Field? Also, his defenses in Atlanta were NEVER that good. He only had a defense ranked in the top half of the league once while he was there. The year they won that playoff game in GB, their D was ranked DEAD LAST in the NFL. So I don't think Vick was the problem that was keeping that team from making a deep playoff run.

Also, Vick and Tebow are completely different players. Vick has a very small body and takes beatings very easily. Tebow (and many of you can't argue as you said he should have played these positions anyway) is built like a FB/TE and has the body to take those beatings. Once again, no one is suggesting he run the ball 15 times a game or that the offense should be centered around his running. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take advantage of that ability though. He showed last season to be BY FAR our best runner in goal line situations. I see no reason not to let him run it every time we get inside the 5.

[atwater27]

Yeah, Steve Young sure had a terrible career running the ball so much.

yeah, he was the king of concussions though. Don't get me wrong, I loved watching that guy run over linebackers. But I could not compare him yet to Tebow. Young had passing skills, accuracy and awareness eeons away from Tim's current level.

[BroncoWave]

yeah, he was the king of concussions though. Don't get me wrong, I loved watching that guy run over linebackers. But I could not compare him yet to Tebow. Young had passing skills, accuracy and awareness eeons away from Tim's current level.

Oh I fully agree, I'm just saying a QB CAN have a successful career while still being a bruising runner at times. Not saying Tebow will be Steve Young, just showing that there is a precedent there.

[BroncoJoe]

yeah, he was the king of concussions though. Don't get me wrong, I loved watching that guy run over linebackers. But I could not compare him yet to Tebow. Young had passing skills, accuracy and awareness eeons away from Tim's current level.

Aikman was "King of Concussions" and was not a running QB.

just sayin ...

[BeefStew25]

Way to randomly pick some absurd number that no one has even suggested he do.

Your boi Bull Gator did. And quit being such a whiny girl all the time.

[broncobryce]

Your boi Bull Gator did. And quit being such a whiny girl all the time.

He's not being "a whiny girl". Just because he differs on opinions and defends them doesn't mean he's whining.
I find his posts some of the better ones here.

I agree sophisticated seems to point to something other than the QB turning around and handing the ball to the running back.
If anyone doesn't think so, please explain how Orton or even Tebow handing off a lot is sophisticated.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

From article:


Either way, the Broncos had gone away from a running game that was once so vaunted it led the NFL from 1995-2007 in virtually every rushing statistic.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18443777

From 1995-2007, these were the quarterbacks:


2007 Jay Cutler (16)
2006 Jake Plummer (11) / Jay Cutler (5)
2005 Jake Plummer (16)
2004 Jake Plummer (16)
2003 Jake Plummer (11) / Steve Beuerlein (2) / Danny Kanell (2) / Jarious Jackson (1)
2002 Brian Griese (13) / Steve Beuerlein (3)
2001 Brian Griese (15) / Gus Frerotte (1)
2000 Brian Griese (10) / Gus Frerotte (6)
1999 Brian Griese (13) / Chris Miller (3)
1998 John Elway (12) / Bubby Brister (4)
1997 John Elway (16)
1996 John Elway (15) / Bill Musgrave (1)
1995 John Elway (16)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Denver_Broncos_starting_quarterbacks

Out of all of these quarterbacks, the ONLY one who would be considered a "running threat" would be Elway. So, the success the Broncos had over 13 seasons with their running game was not CENTERED around the quarterback.

[Bullgator]

From article:



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18443777

From 1995-2007, these were the quarterbacks:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Denver_Broncos_starting_quarterbacks

Out of all of these quarterbacks, the ONLY one who would be considered a "running threat" would be Elway. So, the success the Broncos had over 13 seasons with their running game was not CENTERED around the quarterback.

Again, I agree, you don't need to be the most "sophisticated running game in the league" to be successful, but this is not the point. The point is Fox showing his hand by using the word "sophisticated"

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Again, I agree, you don't need to be the most "sophisticated running game in the league" to be successful, but this is not the point. The point is Fox showing his hand by using the word "sophisticated"

Possibly Fox's definition of "sophisticated" is not the same as your definition is.

[Bullgator]

Or more likely he actually knows the definition of the word.

highly complicated or developed : complex

[broncobryce]

Letting Tebow run 5-8 times a game would open up other things obviously. Like when he takes one step forward and then steps back to and throws. It freezes the linebackers and opens up deeper routes.
To not utilize that would be monumentally stupid. You may not like that we drafted Tebow, but we did and a big part of his game is running.
It's like Vick, you would not tell him to never run again. It's too big a threat. I think Tebow is that kind of player, no he's not as fast but he is a very good runner. He proved it in the last 3 games. He already owns the Broncos record for longest run by a QB.

[Bullgator]

Letting Tebow run 5-8 times a game would open up other things obviously. Like when he takes one step forward and then steps back to and throws. It freezes the linebackers and opens up deeper routes.
To not utilize that would be monumentally stupid. You may not like that we drafted Tebow, but we did and a big part of his game is running.
It's like Vick, you would not tell him to never run again. It's too big a threat. I think Tebow is that kind of player, no he's not as fast but he is a very good runner. He proved it in the last 3 games. He already owns the Broncos record for longest run by a QB.

Agreed 100% why would not want to keep the defense honest? DCs should be forced to respect the QB position as a run threat(makes it 11 on 11) and that forces more man coverage. This allows you to find the mismatch. Which believe it or not, Teebs is good at. The running ability is his fastball... his threat...t gets all the attention but its his changeup that strikes em out.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I have no problem with the Broncos' drafting Tebow - in fact, I was glad they did, and I am sure that he will run the ball at times, either by design, or necessity. I am just not sold on the fact that the running game will be centered around him.

[Shananahan]

The running ability is his fastball... his threat...t gets all the attention but its his changeup that strikes em out.
On a scale of 1-10, how satisfied with yourself were you after making this analogy?

[broncobryce]

I have no problem with the Broncos' drafting Tebow - in fact, I was glad they did, and I am sure that he will run the ball at times, either by design, or necessity. I am just not sold on the fact that the running game will be centered around him.

I don't think it will centered around him either. I don't think anybody is saying it will. Just saying he will be an aspect of it, that's all.

[Bullgator]

I throw you guys a bone... Ill play devils advocate for this post.

You guys are barking up the wrong tree... CLEARLY Fox's use of the word sophisticated is a tell that to he plans on playing Tebow in the run game.

BUT that doesnt mean that Tebow will be the starting QB... could be that Fox just wants to use the running game in certain situations. Maybe KO is the starter... and moves the ball in between the 20s.

maybe KO shares time with TT and TT runs a "wild cat" type of package.

sheesh come on guys I cant run both sides of the debate :tsk:

[Bullgator]

On a scale of 1-10, how satisfied with yourself were you after making this analogy?

about a 6... its missing something... but its still the concept of getting you used to one thing and then whoop! like his jump pass.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


And for Tebow, there was something to be taken from the the AFC and NFC championship games. One, a quarterback who can run his way out of trouble is a bonus. Just a bonus, however, not a way of doing business all of the time.

Of the top five rushing quarterbacks this season, two played Sunday — Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers and Chicago's Jay Cutler. Rodgers will be playing in Super Bowl XLV.

Philadelphia's Michael Vick led NFL quarterbacks in rushing this season with 676 yards. Vick had nine rushing touchdowns. But what made him so effective as a runner was that he had the first 3,000-yard passing season of his NFL career.

This also was the first season Vick completed at least 60 percent of his passes. He threw a career-high 21 touchdown passes. He also threw only six interceptions, a career-low number for a season in which he made at least 12 starts.

Vick was a dominant player this season because his all-around work as a quarterback improved.

Most pro personnel people in the NFL will say Vick was a more effective runner, taking fewer punishing hits because of what he did in the pocket as a passer.

full article - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17185904

[MOtorboat]

If Tebow is running the ball, he has problems and this team has problems. He doesnt't change the game like Vick. He has to be a thrower, otherwise, his career will be terrible.

Yeah, Steve Young sure had a terrible career running the ball so much.

Steve Young averaged four carries per game and never had more than 76 carries in a single season. He was also one of the most efficient quarterbacks to ever play the game. He wasn't successful because he ran, he was successful because he was one hell of a passer, and aside from maybe Peyton Manning, one of the most intelligent quarterbacks to ever play the game.

[BeefStew25]

Well, I hope some of you are glad we have a QB that can push an Escalade up a hill.

[TXBRONC]

Oh I fully agree, I'm just saying a QB CAN have a successful career while still being a bruising runner at times. Not saying Tebow will be Steve Young, just showing that there is a precedent there.

Name one that has?

[BroncoStud]

Scrambling around to buy time to throw is one thing, rushing from the quarterback position is another. I'm hoping for the former and very little of the latter.

If Tebow is our focus on the running game then we are ******.

[BroncoWave]

Name one that has?

I just did in the post you quoted.

[MOtorboat]

Name one that has?

I just did in the post you quoted.

Four rushing attempts per game? That sounds like a real bruiser right there...

[BroncoWave]

Four rushing attempts per game? That sounds like a real bruiser right there...

It was his style of running, not necessarily the quantity. And if you'd read my posts you'd note where I said that I'm not suggesting he run the ball 15 times a game. I'm just saying we shouldn't dump designed running plays from the playbook since it's one of his most lethal weapons. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 7-8 carries a game would be just fine. Now if we can find some bonafied studs to run the ball then that number could go lower but given how poor our running game is, I have no problem with him calling his own number, especially in the red zone.

[MOtorboat]

Four rushing attempts per game? That sounds like a real bruiser right there...

It was his style of running, not necessarily the quantity. And if you'd read my posts you'd note where I said that I'm not suggesting he run the ball 15 times a game. I'm just saying we shouldn't dumb designed running plays from the playbook since it's one of his most lethal weapons. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 7-8 carries a game would be just fine. Now if we can find some bonafied studs to run the ball then that number could go lower but given how poor our running game is, I have no problem with him calling his own number, especially in the red zone.

It was unclear what your point was. At first it was about successful running quarterbacks and how much Steve Young ran. It then appeared to change when you realized that he didn't run very often, thus negating your original point. That's when you accused someone of pulling a random number out of their ass (15) and then subsequently pulled a random number out of your ass (7-8).

As far as your last point, I do have a problem with him calling his own number. By doing so, he won't win that many games at this level.

[BroncoWave]

It was unclear what your point was. At first it was about successful running quarterbacks and how much Steve Young ran. It then appeared to change when you realized that he didn't run very often, thus negating your original point. That's when you accused someone of pulling a random number out of their ass (15) and then subsequently pulled a random number out of your ass (7-8).

As far as your last point, I do have a problem with him calling his own number. By doing so, he won't win that many games at this level.

Based on what exactly? Vick has won many games at this level doing it, why can't Tebow?

[BroncoWave]

Let's play a game now. People seem to be so worried about Tebow running the ball saying he will get killed at this level if he runs it too much. Let's look at the weights of Tebow and all of our RB/FBs from last season:

245
243
235
223
220
220
210

Guess which one of those is Tebow. If you guessed 245 you would be correct. I am not worried at all about his body holding up if he runs the ball frequently.

[MOtorboat]

It was unclear what your point was. At first it was about successful running quarterbacks and how much Steve Young ran. It then appeared to change when you realized that he didn't run very often, thus negating your original point. That's when you accused someone of pulling a random number out of their ass (15) and then subsequently pulled a random number out of your ass (7-8).

As far as your last point, I do have a problem with him calling his own number. By doing so, he won't win that many games at this level.

Based on what exactly? Vick has won many games at this level doing it, why can't Tebow?

Because Tebow can't outrun people. That's a huge distinction between the two. Tebow is slow, but might run over a linebacker or two. Vick might be the most elusive player to ever play the game, on top of his clearly superior ability to throw the ball. Tebow cannot throw the football efficiently or with accuracy, something Vick always had. It's a terrible comparison.

[BroncoWave]

Because Tebow can't outrun people. That's a huge distinction between the two. Tebow is slow, but might run over a linebacker or two. Vick might be the most elusive player to ever play the game, on top of his clearly superior ability to throw the ball. Tebow cannot throw the football efficiently or with accuracy, something Vick always had. It's a terrible comparison.

Tebow doesn't have to outrun people. As you pointed out, he can run over people. What is wrong with that? What makes so many people inclined to believe he will suffer some serious injury by continuing to do that?

And based on your statements about Vick you clearly only started watching him this past season. He was a dreadful passer in Atlanta. His HIGHEST completion % in Atlanta was 56%. That's what you call superior passing ability?

[Bullgator]

It was unclear what your point was. At first it was about successful running quarterbacks and how much Steve Young ran. It then appeared to change when you realized that he didn't run very often, thus negating your original point. That's when you accused someone of pulling a random number out of their ass (15) and then subsequently pulled a random number out of your ass (7-8).

As far as your last point, I do have a problem with him calling his own number. By doing so, he won't win that many games at this level.

That sir, is your uneducated guess as to how many games he will win. Tell your magic 8 ball not be such a hater.

and Tebow is not slow. 4.7 isnt blazing but its fast enough... couple that with some downhill action and you have a effin beast.

Your just pissed he never went to mizzou

[MOtorboat]

Because Tebow can't outrun people. That's a huge distinction between the two. Tebow is slow, but might run over a linebacker or two. Vick might be the most elusive player to ever play the game, on top of his clearly superior ability to throw the ball. Tebow cannot throw the football efficiently or with accuracy, something Vick always had. It's a terrible comparison.

Tebow doesn't have to outrun people. As you pointed out, he can run over people. What is wrong with that? What makes so many people inclined to believe he will suffer some serious injury by continuing to do that?

And based on your statements about Vick you clearly only started watching him this past season. He was a dreadful passer in Atlanta. His HIGHEST completion % in Atlanta was 56%. That's what you call superior passing ability?

He isn't Michael Vick. He doesn't have the arm strength and he's obviously not as fast. It's an absurd comparison. And yes, Michael Vick is a superior passer, in nearly every facet.

If he has to run he will get hurt, no matter how big he is. If he has to run, he has problems, either he can't read the defense or the team around him sucks.

If he wants to be successful he has to be a quarterback, not some idiotic "hybrid."

[BroncoWave]

He isn't Michael Vick. He doesn't have the arm strength and he's obviously not as fast. It's an absurd comparison. And yes, Michael Vick is a superior passer, in nearly every facet.

If he has to run he will get hurt, no matter how big he is. If he has to run, he has problems, either he can't read the defense or the team around him sucks.

If he wants to be successful he has to be a quarterback, not some idiotic "hybrid."

:lol::lol::lol: I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously anymore if you actually think Vick is a superior passer in nearly every facet. Yes, he had his first great passing season this year, but in Atlanta he had a career 75 QB rating and 54% completions. In what universe does that signify a superior passer?

I think you are getting his arm strength confused with actual passing ability.

[MOtorboat]

So, three games are enough to make sweeping judgments of his ability?

Michael Vick is a superior passer to Tim Tebow and incredibly better at improvising.

[BroncoWave]

Be honest MO, which of these would you say is a more solid passing season?

50/113 (44%) 785 yds (6.9 YPA) 2 TD 3 INT 62.7 QBR
41/82 (50%) 654 yds (8 YPA) 5 TD 3 INT 82.1 QBR

[BroncoWave]

So, three games are enough to make sweeping judgments of his ability?

Michael Vick is a superior passer to Tim Tebow and incredibly better at improvising.

Oh so now you're backtracking I see. First you say he is a superior passer, now you say he is simply a superior passer to Tebow. No shit an 8 year veteran QB is a better passer than a rookie. Any other breaking news you want to pass along?

[MOtorboat]

I will stick by my assessment that Michael Vick is a superior passer than Tim Tebow until Tim Tebow actually shows me a reason to say otherwise. He had a 55 percent completion percentage his second year.

He clearly has more big-play potential than Tebow. And his playoff record speaks for itself.

That said, what about you changing topics willy nilly? If you're going to call me out, you shoupld at least answer my questions first.

[BroncoWave]

I will stick by my assessment that Michael Vick is a superior passer than Tim Tebow until Tim Tebow actually shows me a reason to say otherwise. He had a 55 percent completion percentage his second year.

He clearly has more big-play potential than Tebow. And his playoff record speaks for itself.

That said, what about you changing topics willy nilly? If you're going to call me out, you shoupld at least answer my questions first.

What question of yours have I not answered? :confused:

[BroncoWave]

I will stick by my assessment that Michael Vick is a superior passer than Tim Tebow until Tim Tebow actually shows me a reason to say otherwise. He had a 55 percent completion percentage his second year.

He clearly has more big-play potential than Tebow. And his playoff record speaks for itself.

That said, what about you changing topics willy nilly? If you're going to call me out, you shoupld at least answer my questions first.

NO SHIT Sherlock. You are comparing an 8 year veteran to a rookie. The 8 year veteran will win every time. Hell, Vick is a better passer now then freaking Peyton Manning was as a rookie. It means absolutely nothing.

[MOtorboat]

Why 15 carries is a number pulled out of someone's ass and 7-8 is a good number, while the example you gave only ran for 4 carries per game.

It was pretty simple to follow along with your flawed logic.

[MOtorboat]

I will stick by my assessment that Michael Vick is a superior passer than Tim Tebow until Tim Tebow actually shows me a reason to say otherwise. He had a 55 percent completion percentage his second year.

He clearly has more big-play potential than Tebow. And his playoff record speaks for itself.

That said, what about you changing topics willy nilly? If you're going to call me out, you shoupld at least answer my questions first.

NO SHIT Sherlock. You are comparing an 8 year veteran to a rookie. The 8 year veteran will win every time. Hell, Vick is a better passer now then freaking Peyton Manning was as a rookie. It means absolutely nothing.

So why are you making comparisons, again? You started the , he's better than "x" quarterback...

[BroncoWave]

Why 15 carries is a number pulled out of someone's ass and 7-8 is a good number, while the example you gave only ran for 4 carries per game.

It was pretty simple to follow along with your flawed logic.

Because Beef said it would be a bad thing for him to run the ball 15 times a game even though no one has suggested that he run the ball 15 times a game, hence a number he pulled out of his ass. 7-8 is simply the number of times I would like to see him carry the ball this season. I'm not basing that on anything, just my opinion of what I'd like to see. What part of that is so hard for you to follow?

Now it's your turn to answer my question. Which of these is a better passing season?

50/113 (44%) 785 yds (6.9 YPA) 2 TD 3 INT 62.7 QBR
41/82 (50%) 654 yds (8 YPA) 5 TD 3 INT 82.1 QBR

[BroncoWave]

So why are you making comparisons, again? You started the , he's better than "x" quarterback...

:lol: Where did I say that Tim Tebow is better than Mike Vick? You are simply making things up now.

[MOtorboat]

Why 15 carries is a number pulled out of someone's ass and 7-8 is a good number, while the example you gave only ran for 4 carries per game.

It was pretty simple to follow along with your flawed logic.

Because Beef said it would be a bad thing for him to run the ball 15 times a game even though no one has suggested that he run the ball 15 times a game, hence a number he pulled out of his ass. 7-8 is simply the number of times I would like to see him carry the ball this season. I'm not basing that on anything, just my opinion of what I'd like to see. What part of that is so hard for you to follow?

Now it's your turn to answer my question. Which of these is a better passing season?

50/113 (44%) 785 yds (6.9 YPA) 2 TD 3 INT 62.7 QBR
41/82 (50%) 654 yds (8 YPA) 5 TD 3 INT 82.1 QBR

You asked why he pulled that number out of his ass and I'm asking why you pulled your number out of your ass when the example you gave, without clearly knowing what you were talking about, only ran for half of the number you pulled out of your ass while accusing someone else of doing the same.

It's not hard to see the hypocrisy.

[BroncoWave]

You asked why he pulled that number out of his ass and I'm asking why you pulled your number out of your ass when the example you gave, without clearly knowing what you were talking about, only ran for half of the number you pulled out of your ass while accusing someone else of doing the same.

It's not hard to see the hypocrisy.

I answered your question. It's not my fault you don't like the answer. Now answer mine.

Which of these is a better passing season?

50/113 (44%) 785 yds (6.9 YPA) 2 TD 3 INT 62.7 QBR
41/82 (50%) 654 yds (8 YPA) 5 TD 3 INT 82.1 QBR

[BeefStew25]

I do think that TT should carry the ball 15 times but that includes scrambling not just called plays... 5-8 called run plays for TT is enough. but anyway looks like he has schemed a special running game that includes TT.

because trust me without TT there is nothing sophisticated about handing the ball off to the running back no matter who that is.

Here it is in all it's glory, Saints Fan.

[BroncoWave]

Here it is in all it's glory, Saints Fan.

Ok so other than the biggest Tebow homer in the world what reasonable person thinks he should run the ball 15 times a game?

[BeefStew25]

Ok so other than the biggest Tebow homer in the world what reasonable person thinks he should run the ball 15 times a game?

I don't care about that. I want him to pull a loaded 747 with his teeth.

[MOtorboat]

You asked why he pulled that number out of his ass and I'm asking why you pulled your number out of your ass when the example you gave, without clearly knowing what you were talking about, only ran for half of the number you pulled out of your ass while accusing someone else of doing the same.

It's not hard to see the hypocrisy.

I answered your question. It's not my fault you don't like the answer. Now answer mine.

Which of these is a better passing season?

50/113 (44%) 785 yds (6.9 YPA) 2 TD 3 INT 62.7 QBR
41/82 (50%) 654 yds (8 YPA) 5 TD 3 INT 82.1 QBR

You're a hypcorit as usual, but as far as your lame comparison, question.

They both suck. I expect more.

Now, can you explain why you think 7-8 runs per game is intelligent when Steve Young who ran so terribly much, as you asserted, only ran 4 times per game his entire carrer?

[BeefStew25]

Oh, and Jake Plummer sucks.

[BroncoWave]

You're a hypcorit as usual, but as far as your lame comparison, question.

They both suck. I expect more.

Now, can you explain why you think 7-8 runs per game is intelligent when Steve Young who ran so terribly much, as you asserted, only ran 4 times per game his entire carrer?

Because Tebow is bigger than Young and can take more of a beating? It's pretty simple.

But since you have refused to answer my question I'll go ahead and make my point. If you want to honestly compare Vick and Tebow, you can only look at their rookie seasons since that's the only baseline for comparison. Tebow's rookie season stats clearly dwarfed Vick's as you can see. No one knows what will happen after this season, but Tebow is CLEARLY off to a better start passing-wise in his career than Vick.

Yeah Vick is a better passer now (duh) but Tebow is well ahead of the pace Vick started in atlanta. Oh and Tebow's 82.1 passer rating this year? Better than ANY season Vick had in Atlanta. It's just asinine to say that Atlanta Vick is a far superior passer to Denver Tebow. Even the number's in Vick's BEST season in Atlanta aren't that much more impressive than Tebow's numbers this past season.

[chazoe60]

You're a hypcorit as usual, but as far as your lame comparison, question.

They both suck. I expect more.

Now, can you explain why you think 7-8 runs per game is intelligent when Steve Young who ran so terribly much, as you asserted, only ran 4 times per game his entire carrer?

Don't get me wrong I don't want TT running all game like a RB, but I think it's inevitable that he rushes at least 5 times a game. At least early in his career he's going to do some running. My hope is he learns to slide and get out of bounds, which I think he will.

I would guess that Steve Young's runs per game went down as he got older and earlier in his career he did run more than 4 times a game. I can see TT with a career arc like that, as his feel for the game matures his pocket passing will improve and his rushing numbers will come down, it's natural.

[BeefStew25]

I am excited about Tebow so very much, and think he is our best option on the team at QB and chapel.

Having said that, at the end of the day, his arm is going to carry him further than his legs. And if they run the ball with him a bunch, it won't be very good long term.

I think that is a reasonable take on it. No?

[BroncoWave]

I am excited about Tebow so very much, and think he is our best option on the team at QB and chapel.

Having said that, at the end of the day, his arm is going to carry him further than his legs. And if they run the ball with him a bunch, it won't be very good long term.

I think that is a reasonable take on it. No?

Not a single person has said his legs will carry him further than his arms. I don't even think Bullgator would argue that.

[MOtorboat]

You're a hypcorit as usual, but as far as your lame comparison, question.

They both suck. I expect more.

Now, can you explain why you think 7-8 runs per game is intelligent when Steve Young who ran so terribly much, as you asserted, only ran 4 times per game his entire carrer?

Because Tebow is bigger than Young and can take more of a beating? It's pretty simple.

But since you have refused to answer my question I'll go ahead and make my point. If you want to honestly compare Vick and Tebow, you can only look at their rookie seasons since that's the only baseline for comparison. Tebow's rookie season stats clearly dwarfed Vick's as you can see. No one knows what will happen after this season, but Tebow is CLEARLY off to a better start passing-wise in his career than Vick.

Yeah Vick is a better passer now (duh) but Tebow is well ahead of the pace Vick started in atlanta. Oh and Tebow's 82.1 passer rating this year? Better than ANY season Vick had in Atlanta. It's just asinine to say that Atlanta Vick is a far superior passer to Denver Tebow. Even the number's in Vick's BEST season in Atlanta aren't that much more impressive than Tebow's numbers this past season.

Until Tebow plays more than three games, it sure as hell isn't relevant how an wight-year quarterback has turned out. He played THREE games!

[BeefStew25]

Until Tebow plays more than three games, it sure as hell isn't relevant how an wight-year quarterback has turned out. He played THREE games!

And played at or above Bradford's level, IMHO.

He looked good for his situation.

[BroncoWave]

Until Tebow plays more than three games, it sure as hell isn't relevant how an wight-year quarterback has turned out. He played THREE games!

Tell me more about how 54% completions and 75 QBR = superior passing skills.

[BeefStew25]

Not a single person has said his legs will carry him further than his arms. I don't even think Bullgator would argue that.

Oh he would.

[MOtorboat]

You're a hypcorit as usual, but as far as your lame comparison, question.

They both suck. I expect more.

Now, can you explain why you think 7-8 runs per game is intelligent when Steve Young who ran so terribly much, as you asserted, only ran 4 times per game his entire carrer?

Don't get me wrong I don't want TT running all game like a RB, but I think it's inevitable that he rushes at least 5 times a game. At least early in his career he's going to do some running. My hope is he learns to slide and get out of bounds, which I think he will.

I would guess that Steve Young's runs per game went down as he got older and earlier in his career he did run more than 4 times a game. I can see TT with a career arc like that, as his feel for the game matures his pocket passing will improve and his rushing numbers will come down, it's natural.

His runs per game were consistent. To make the assertion about him running the ball as his reason for success in comparison to Tebow is absurd.

[BeefStew25]

Small sample size, guys. Lets not burn through that bandwidth until we see more.

[MOtorboat]

Until Tebow plays more than three games, it sure as hell isn't relevant how an wight-year quarterback has turned out. He played THREE games!

Tell me more about how 54% completions and 75 QBR = superior passing skills.

Tell me more about how Tebow's success compares to Steve Young and how Steve Young was successful because of how much he ran.

[BroncoWave]

His runs per game were consistent. To make the assertion about him running the ball as his reason for success in comparison to Tebow is absurd.

See you continue to make things up. This is your problem. I never ONCE stated that Young's success was due to him running the ball. Can you please show where I said that?

My point was that Steve Young had more bruising running style similar to Tebow's but still wound up having a great career despite those beatings. You really need to read more closely.

[Shananahan]

I don't care about that. I want him to pull a loaded 747 with his teeth.
I won't be happy until he can cause one to take off.

[MOtorboat]

If Tebow is running the ball, he has problems and this team has problems. He doesnt't change the game like Vick. He has to be a thrower, otherwise, his career will be terrible.

Yeah, Steve Young sure had a terrible career running the ball so much.

Yeah, you never made that assertion at all.

LOL

[BeefStew25]

I won't be happy until he can cause one to take off.

That can happen, but it is going to take all of us.

[BeefStew25]

Steve Young had wheels. I don't think he was a bruiser. Am I wrong? Is that the problem with me?

[BroncoWave]

Yeah, you never made that assertion at all.

LOL

Where in that post did I say his success was DUE to him running the ball? You need to quit extrapolating things that aren't there.

Once again I will say, my point in making that post was that Young had a great career and still managed to have a bruising running style when he ran it. NOWHERE did I say or even imply that his success was DUE to his rushing ability. That is you putting words in my mouth.

[BroncoWave]

I'm not a moron MO. I know that Young's passing ability is what made him a HOF QB. Give me a little credit.

[MOtorboat]

Yeah, you never made that assertion at all.

LOL

Where in that post did I say his success was DUE to him running the ball? You need to quit extrapolating things that aren't there.

Once again I will say, my point in making that post was that Young had a great career and still managed to have a bruising running style when he ran it. NOWHERE did I say or even imply that his success was DUE to his rushing ability. That is you putting words in my mouth.

Not really. You said as much. Sucks you have to back track.

[BroncoWave]

Not really. You said as much. Sucks you have to back track.

Do you HONESTLY think I believe that Steve Young's success was due to his running? Come on man, like I said, I'm not a moron.

You are trying to extrapolate that I said that and you are wrong. And instead of admitting you're wrong you simply try to accuse me of backtracking. That's weak man.

The whole argument I have been making this ENTIRE THREAD is that Tebow can run the ball somewhat frequently and still have a solid career, win games, and not get any serious injuries. I never said his running is what will MAKE him a great player. Why would I say that about Young when that's not even what I'm trying to say about Tebow?

[Dzone]

Tebow is 6'3" and 250 pounds...Steve Young is 6-2 215 lbs...

[BeefStew25]

Tebow is 6'3" and 250 pounds...Steve Young is 6-2 215 lbs...

Young pushes Prius'eses up hills.

[TXBRONC]

It was his style of running, not necessarily the quantity. And if you'd read my posts you'd note where I said that I'm not suggesting he run the ball 15 times a game. I'm just saying we shouldn't dump designed running plays from the playbook since it's one of his most lethal weapons. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 7-8 carries a game would be just fine. Now if we can find some bonafied studs to run the ball then that number could go lower but given how poor our running game is, I have no problem with him calling his own number, especially in the red zone.

We've been talking about quantity. Steve Young's style got him hurt. You completely blew off Tebow injuring his ribs in a preseason game but that's foolish. He missed next two games because of it and if I'm he missed practice time. If he can get injured playing against scrubs in a meaningless preseason game what happens if gets hit by the likes of James Harrison in games that count? If he's the starter in middle of a playoff hunt and missed two critical starts then I don't see how taking extra punishment is worth it.

You're suggesting that he carry the ball about a 128 times for a season. Did you consider the fact that he will also have to tuck the ball and run on occassion. If has tuck and run by necessatiy an average 4 times per games that 64 carries over the course of 16 games. That's be 192 carrries for the year. And you're telling us that just because he's 230 lbs it wont take it's toll? Sorry that's not realistic.

[BroncoWave]

We've been talking about quantity. Steve Young's style got him hurt. You completely blew off Tebow injuring his ribs in a preseason game but that's foolish. He missed next two games because of it and if I'm he missed practice time. If he can get injured playing against scrubs in a meaningless preseason game what happens if gets hit by the likes of James Harrison in games that count? If he's the starter in middle of a playoff hunt and missed two critical starts then I don't see how taking extra punishment is worth it.

You're suggesting that he carry the ball about a 128 times for a season. Did you consider the fact that he will also have to tuck the ball and run on occassion. If has tuck and run by necessatiy an average 4 times per games that 64 carries over the course of 16 games. That's be 192 carrries for the year. And you're telling us that just because he's 230 lbs it wont take it's toll? Sorry that's not realistic.

He's 245 pounds, not 230. And I'm suggesting that he carry the ball 7-8 times a game total, not that there should be that many called running plays. That number factors in scrambles as well.

And yes, I am disregarding the rib injury because it wasn't serious at all and he probably would have been able to play with it had they been meaningful games. Tim Tebow is the last player I am worried about sustaining a serious injury.

[NightTerror218]

15 runs a game, and he will retire soon. NFL guys will toss his salad.

IF you watched Tebow in the last 3 games, he ran out of bounds a lot to avoid contact.

[Ravage!!!]

Steve Young had wheels. I don't think he was a bruiser. Am I wrong? Is that the problem with me?

No, you are right on. Steve Young was absolutely not a bruiser when he ran the ball. He had wheels. He was a RB in college before converting to play QB. He was a very GOOD RB at that. But not a bruising style one and didn't play like one from the QB position.

[atwater27]

No, you are right on. Steve Young was absolutely not a bruiser when he ran the ball. He had wheels. He was a RB in college before converting to play QB. He was a very GOOD RB at that. But not a bruising style one and didn't play like one from the QB position.

I can't find any clips for some reason, but I remember Steve Young would lay the lumber on safeties and linebackers. Now he could also juke and break tackles in other ways, but a bruiser he was.

[Bullgator]

Holy shit, Im going to be insufferable... You guys juuuuuuust wait...

[Canmore]

Holy shit, Im going to be insufferable... You guys juuuuuuust wait...

Going to be? Lol.

Hope like heck you are right, but I'm not holding my breath. :defense:

[Juriga72]

Going to be? Lol.

Hope like heck you are right, but I'm not holding my breath. :defense:

He'll come up with qoutes from preists who "Went straight after seeing Tim Tebow up close"..... watch

[TXBRONC]

He's 245 pounds, not 230. And I'm suggesting that he carry the ball 7-8 times a game total, not that there should be that many called running plays. That number factors in scrambles as well.

And yes, I am disregarding the rib injury because it wasn't serious at all and he probably would have been able to play with it had they been meaningful games. Tim Tebow is the last player I am worried about sustaining a serious injury.

Your previous post didn't clear how you breaking it down. Nevertheless what does that matter it still adds up to around 200 carries for the year.

Apparantely you missed my point entirely about my comment about his rib injury. First all if he were the starting quarterback in the middle of playoff hunt your starting missing those games could be the difference between making the playoffs or not. Second BTB he was injuired against scrubs not the likes of Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu. So what he's 245 lbs and not 230 lbs did it prevent him missing two game?

[TXBRONC]

I would be surprised if Tebow is a major component of the ground game. The lineman and linebakers in the NFL are fast, big, mean and nasty. They feast on lighting up quarterbacks. Especially running ones. I know Tebow is big and strong but he won't last long being a runningback imo.

Yep. If Tebow can injured in preseason game by scrubs what happens when consistently takes hits over 16 schedule from the likes of Ray Lewis, James Harrison and so forth.

[BroncoJoe]

Not disagreeing with the fact Tebow got hurt by "scrubs" in a game, however ANY NFL player can be hurt on any given play.

[BroncoWave]

Apparantely you missed my point entirely about my comment about his rib injury. First all if he were the starting quarterback in the middle of playoff hunt your starting missing those games could be the difference between making the playoffs or not. Second BTB he was injuired against scrubs not the likes of Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu. So what he's 245 lbs and not 230 lbs did it prevent him missing two game?


Yep. If Tebow can injured in preseason game by scrubs what happens when consistently takes hits over 16 schedule from the likes of Ray Lewis, James Harrison and so forth.

This is such a weak argument. Yeah he got injured by a backup in his very FIRST NFL game when he was still adjusting to the speed and power of the NFL. Guess how many injuries he had against STARTERS when he actually played REAL GAMES this season. That's right...zero.

Yeah someone like Ray Lewis or James Harrison could injure him, as they could ANY PLAYER in the league. But Tebow seems more than smart enough to get out of bounds or slide when needed. Yeah he does take some hits, but it's not like he tries to bulldoze linebackers every time he runs. Spin moves and stiffarms are also a big part of his game.

And I'll say it once again, seeing as he's BIGGER than most running backs in the NFL, I don't get all this concern for him taking such a beating. He's a big boy, he can handle it. I also think he is MUCH smarter than some of you give him credit for. If he realizes the beating he gets from running is too much I have no doubt he will dial it back or adjust how he runs. He doesn't want to get injured any more than you guys hope he doesn't.

[BroncoWave]

Not disagreeing with the fact Tebow got hurt by "scrubs" in a game, however ANY NFL player can be hurt on any given play.

EXACTLY, and those who play scared and shy away from contact are more often than not the ones who get hurt. I'm glad Tebow isn't that type of player. Now granted there's a line between not playing scared and playing wrecklessly, but I have faith he will find that balance.

[BroncoJoe]

Probably the biggest hit he has ever taken was in college, on a pass play where he wasn't running.

[TXBRONC]

This is such a weak argument. Yeah he got injured by a backup in his very FIRST NFL game when he was still adjusting to the speed and power of the NFL. Guess how many injuries he had against STARTERS when he actually played REAL GAMES this season. That's right...zero.

Yeah someone like Ray Lewis or James Harrison could injure him, as they could ANY PLAYER in the league. But Tebow seems more than smart enough to get out of bounds or slide when needed. Yeah he does take some hits, but it's not like he tries to bulldoze linebackers every time he runs. Spin moves and stiff arms are also a big part of his game.

And I'll say it once again, seeing as he's BIGGER than most running backs in the NFL, I don't get all this concern for him taking such a beating. He's a big boy, he can handle it. I also think he is MUCH smarter than some of you give him credit for. If he realizes the beating he gets from running is too much I have no doubt he will dial it back or adjust how he runs. He doesn't want to get injured any more than you guys hope he doesn't.

Anything I've put foward is no weaker than the things you've said. Please "well he got hurt because he wasn't used to the speed of game." That's bogus. It was run. If you're arguing the sacks he took fine but a scramble nope.


You used Vick as example Randall Cunningham was the same kind of quarterback as Vick and had a great defense and what kind of playoff success did have? The great quarterbacks win championships with their arms not their legs that's a fact.

Finally it's not that I don't think he should ever run. It is a weapon but have designed runs every game is foolish imo.

[TXBRONC]

Not disagreeing with the fact Tebow got hurt by "scrubs" in a game, however ANY NFL player can be hurt on any given play.

Joe I agree he can get hurt on any given play but what I'm getting at is that taking extra hits will take its toll on him it doesn't that he's 240 lbs. I'm not saying he should never run but about 192 times a year like BTB some of the other guys are saying is way to much imo. How many quarterbacks who have put up prolific rushing yards has ever had ultimate success i.e. winning a Super Bowl? None that I can think of. If he's going to be a great quarterback it will be because of his arm not his legs.

[BroncoWave]

Anything I've put foward is no weaker than the things you've said. Please "well he got hurt because he wasn't used to the speed of game." That's a bogus. It was run. If you're arguing the sacks he took fine but a scramble nope.

Don't accuse me wanting Tebow to get hurt. I have no such desire to see him get hurt. I'm just saying your dead wrong about having him run about 192times for a season. You're asking for him take extra and because 240 lbs basically saying it wont take any toll on him and that's naive imho.

You used Vick as example Randall Cunningham was the same kind of quarterback as Vick and had a great defense and what kind of playoff success did have? The great quarterbacks win championships with their arms not their legs that's a fact.

Finally it's not that I don't think he should ever run. It is a weapon but have designed runs every game is foolish imo.

Wut?

[TXBRONC]

Wut?

Sorry about that I thought that's what I read in your post. I deleted that line from my post.

[GEM]

The stench of urine from the pissing matches is high in here.

[NightTerror218]

Tebow as a runner learned quick after his rib injury in the preseason he is going against bigger, quicker, stronger guys. I noticed in his 3 starts he ran out of bounds a lot, except his TD runs and the bull-dover run on the raiders for 40 yrds.

[BroncoWave]

Tebow as a runner learned quick after his rib injury in the preseason he is going against bigger, quicker, stronger guys. I noticed in his 3 starts he ran out of bounds a lot, except his TD runs and the bull-dover run on the raiders for 40 yrds.

Don't bring logic into this thread. Clearly every time he runs he will get smashed by a huge linebacker or safety.

[NightTerror218]

Don't bring logic into this thread. Clearly every time he runs he will get smashed by a huge linebacker or safety.

O really. Guess the raiders missed that Memo, as with Houston and Chargers.

[TXBRONC]

Don't bring logic into this thread. Clearly every time he runs he will get smashed by a huge linebacker or safety.

I don't recall anyone saying that.

[Canmore]

I don't recall anyone saying that.

Nor do I. We are concerned about the health of our supposed starting quarterback. Running Quarterbacks tend to take a pounding, especially one with the running style of Tebow. Hits add up.

[NightTerror218]

Nor do I. We are concerned about the health of our supposed starting quarterback. Running Quarterbacks tend to take a pounding, especially one with the running style of Tebow. Hits add up.

Did you watch the last 3 games and notice Tebow running out of bounds a lot? He learned a lesson in preseason. I was glad to see that, I dont want another Steve Young concussion prone QB on our hands.

[TXBRONC]

Nor do I. We are concerned about the health of our supposed starting quarterback. Running Quarterbacks tend to take a pounding, especially one with the running style of Tebow. Hits add up.

That's my point the hits add up. I expect him to run as he should because one of his weapons. I don't see where it's sound approach to say he has have "x" number rushing attempts per game.

[Canmore]

That's my point the hits add up. I expect him to run as he should because one of his weapons. I don't see where it's sound approach to say he has have "x" number rushing attempts per game.

I can see a few quarterback draws here and there but calling his number regularly game to game is a whole different thing. I'm hoping our running game comes from runningbacks.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

TT needs to run just like #7 did - a QB sneak, draw, to try to make something happen when the called play is not there, etc. He does not need to be running, just to be running.

[Canmore]

TT needs to run just like #7 did - a QB sneak, draw, to try to make something happen when the called play is not there, etc. He does not need to be running, just to be running.

Exactly, he is big and strong. A sneak here a draw there something to keep the defense honest. He will run plenty from the pocket, at least that is what I expect. I can certainly see bringing the bootleg back.

[BroncoWave]

For the record, I think his called running plays should mostly be called in the red zone. He was by far our best goal line runner last year. He just knows how to get it in the endzone.

[TXBRONC]

For the record, I think his called running plays should mostly be called in the red zone. He was by far our best goal line runner last year. He just knows how to get it in the endzone.

Fair enough. However, I think our running back situation will be improved this year.

[BroncoWave]

Fair enough. However, I think our running back situation will be improved this year.

Hope so. Would be nice not to have to rely on our QB as our primary goal line back! :lol:

[Canmore]

Hope so. Would be nice not to have to rely on our QB as our primary goal line back! :lol:

That idea just scares me. :laugh:

[TXBRONC]

Hope so. Would be nice not to have to rely on our QB as our primary goal line back! :lol:

I agree. If we don't have to rely on him to be big piece of the running I think it will actually make Tebow more dangerous as a runner.

[BroncoWave]

That idea just scares me. :laugh:

It was a reality last season!

[Canmore]

It was a reality last season!

I know, lol, I think Tebow will run more than enough without calling his number more than once in a while. He certainly doesn't have a lot of experience reading NFL defenses and going through progressions. I expect to see him taking off plenty. Hopefully he learns to scramble to buy time and run when necessary.

[Dzone]

Tebow will be putting some opponents out of the game. Like it or not, it is going to happen. The crowd will go berserk.

[Canmore]

Tebow will be putting some opponents out of the game. Like it or not, it is going to happen. The crowd will go berserk.

Yes, the crowd would go nuts. :beer:

[Bullgator]

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It's inevitable... he is going to crush someone and hopefully make some DB fans see hes not made of glass.

And if the ref gets sassy his ass going to get trucked too!
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[Juriga72]

So now we are showing "How good Tim will be in the NFL" by showing him run over guys that are not IN the NFL?

Can you show that tape of him getting the concussion? because IMHO... that might happen more often than him "Trucking over NFL players"

MAYBE because he won the Heisman his sophomore year.... We should just order the Canton bust now and get a great price on it.

BTW... I feel that Tebow is the BEST EVER 1-2 starting record Qb ever to play in the NFL

[TXBRONC]

So now we are showing "How good Tim will be in the NFL" by showing him run over guys that are not IN the NFL?

Can you show that tape of him getting the concussion? because IMHO... that might happen more often than him "Trucking over NFL players"

MAYBE because he won the Heisman his sophomore year.... We should just order the Canton bust now and get a great price on it.

BTW... I feel that Tebow is the BEST EVER 1-2 starting record Qb ever to play in the NFL

Landry and Berry are in the NFL but I still don't see any relevance in what he did in college. I want him to be a great quarterback, I don't want him to be another Bobby Douglass.

[atwater27]

Eleven pages later, we are all still wondering what in the hell a poker tell is.

[Bullgator]

So now we are showing "How good Tim will be in the NFL" by showing him run over guys that are not IN the NFL?

Can you show that tape of him getting the concussion? because IMHO... that might happen more often than him "Trucking over NFL players"

MAYBE because he won the Heisman his sophomore year.... We should just order the Canton bust now and get a great price on it.

BTW... I feel that Tebow is the BEST EVER 1-2 starting record Qb ever to play in the NFL

ALL THREE OF THOSE GUYS ARE IN THE NFL YOU MOMO.. Not the ref... but the fact that I have to point that out make you bright... you so bright u my shining star.

I know your sport is balet...so maybe you havent heard of the other two but you must have at least heard of eric berry...

[Bullgator]

Holy SHIT let the season start... I never seen so many scared people in all my LIFE... where is your heart DB fans??? Dare to hope!!! Arent you sick of your caution???? LIVE DAMN YOU!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Holy SHIT let the season start... I never seen so many scared people in all my LIFE... where is your heart DB fans??? Dare to hope!!! Arent you sick of your caution???? LIVE DAMN YOU!

Caution is NOT what we are sick of.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Eleven pages later, we are all still wondering what in the hell a poker tell is.

Here ya go - google works every time :D


One of the key skills most good poker players have is the ability to read their opponents at the table. That is why you hear so much about “poker tells.” A “tell” is any physical reaction, kind of behavior, or habit that gives (or tells) the other players information about your hand. If you learn the most common tells, you can not only watch your own behavior to make sure your body language isn’t telling all your secrets, but also watch for the habits and tics in the poker players you’re at the table with. If you can accurately read your opponent’s tells, you’ll make the right decisions against them more often and win more money.

http://poker.about.com/od/strategyadvice/a/basictells.htm

[Bullgator]

IMO there is something very wrong around here... its like you guys have been through so much disappointment that your scared to invest any hope into your players... You guys need to snap out of it, throw caution into the wind and ******* talk some smack about how good we are going to be this year. **** your "realistic expectations"... get behind your boys and ROOT.

Hell yea we gonna make the playoffs! Hell yea we going to beat the raiders! Hell yea Von Miller is going rip rivers effing head off! Hell yea did you see Tebow's poise as a rook? He's going to be a mighty fine QB, I believe in the boy...

instead all I see around here is"I sure hope he dont turn out to be dingleburry tugnutts"... moping, finger pointing, cheer muffling, cautious pessimism, hate(mostly towards me =D) and whining like lil beyaches. Its like the DB have to win a superbowl before you'll even put any hope in em! hate to tell you BUT ITS TOO LATE BY THEN!

now publicly youll have to berate me and tell me to **** for posterity's sake.. ok w/e... but inwardly think about changing your ee-orr attitude or I swear to larry somebodies going get kicked in the nutts.

[BeefStew25]

Down in front Noob.

[broncobryce]

IMO there is something very wrong around here... its like you guys have been through so much disappointment that your scared to invest any hope into your players... You guys need to snap out of it, throw caution into the wind and ******* talk some smack about how good we are going to be this year. **** your "realistic expectations"... get behind your boys and ROOT.

Hell yea we gonna make the playoffs! Hell yea we going to beat the raiders! Hell yea Von Miller is going rip rivers effing head off! Hell yea did you see Tebow's poise as a rook? He's going to be a mighty fine QB, I believe in the boy...

instead all I see around here is"I sure hope he dont turn out to be dingleburry tugnutts"... moping, finger pointing, cheer muffling, cautious pessimism, hate(mostly towards me =D) and whining like lil beyaches. Its like the DB have to win a superbowl before you'll even put any hope in em! hate to tell you BUT ITS TOO LATE BY THEN!

now publicly youll have to berate me and tell me to **** for posterity's sake.. ok w/e... but inwardly think about changing your ee-orr attitude or I swear to larry somebodies going get kicked in the nutts.

Get used to it. Optimism does not go over well here. If Tebow wins a superbowl and multiple MVP's, then MAYBE some will say he's pretty good.

Others will still say Cutler would have been better and shits pure gold.

[Bullgator]

Get used to it. Optimism does not go over well here. If Tebow wins a superbowl and multiple MVP's, then MAYBE some will say he's pretty good.

Others will still say Cutler would have been better and shits pure gold.

Its a shame Bryce... I'm talking shit to ALL my friends about how the Brocs are going to go from worst to first in the AFC west... been staking my rep on it. Much like I have with Teebs... either your a fan or your not.

To me being a fan is not about how many years you been a "fan" or if your "native" but its about how much passion you have for your team and how little it takes to fire you up... I would like to see some fire... to have some fellow fans to get worked up with... here? :cricket:

[Shananahan]

been staking my rep on it. Much like I have with Teebs...
Tebow is your reputation, though.

[Bullgator]

Tebow is your reputation, though.

Maybe to you... I certainly rep him here alot... But the Broncs are my rep too... everyone I know knows it.

[Bullgator]

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[broncobryce]

Its a shame Bryce... I'm talking shit to ALL my friends about how the Brocs are going to go from worst to first in the AFC west... been staking my rep on it. Much like I have with Teebs... either your a fan or your not.

To me being a fan is not about how many years you been a "fan" or if your "native" but its about how much passion you have for your team and how little it takes to fire you up... I would like to see some fire... to have some fellow fans to get worked up with... here? :cricket:

I could care less how a Broncos fan becomes a fan. I prefer someone to root WITH than root against and argue with.
I saw a lot of good things out of Tebow last season, some prefer to only see the bad or enjoy shooting people down.
I love Brandon Lloyd, Moreno, Tebow, Royal, Clady, Ayers, etc. A lot of people will only point to their shortcomings.
Most of the time it's an agenda one way or the other.

I have an agenda too. If they are Broncos I love em.

[Bullgator]

I could care less how a Broncos fan becomes a fan. I prefer someone to root WITH than root against and argue with.
I saw a lot of good things out of Tebow last season, some prefer to only see the bad or enjoy shooting people down.
I love Brandon Lloyd, Moreno, Tebow, Royal, Clady, Ayers, etc. A lot of people will only point to their shortcomings.
Most of the time it's an agenda one way or the other.

I have an agenda too. If they are Broncos I love em.

I wish I could high five that post up high and down low.

[Shananahan]

Maybe to you... I certainly rep him here alot... But the Broncs are my rep too... everyone I know knows it.
You don't rep him here 'a lot', you rep him here every time you post.

I would also add that speaking down to people who root for the team rather than the player about what kinds of fans they are will only further cause them to dislike you.

[Shananahan]

And gimme a break with that Debbie Downer nonsense. Just because I'm not tripping over myself in order to get in line for the next Tim Tebow fanclub circle-jerk doesn't mean I'm not wildly excited about watching him play this season. I know it's probably important to you for you to feel like you are spreading the Word of Tim to the unconverted and were the very first person to ever root for Tebow, but I don't really care about any of that.

I've been as optimistic as anybody around here since I've joined this board, and haven't needed any of your dumbass 'help' to do so.

[Bullgator]

And gimme a break with that Debbie Downer nonsense. Just because I'm not tripping over myself in order to get in line for the next Tim Tebow fanclub circle-jerk doesn't mean I'm not wildly excited about watching him play this season. I know it's probably important to you for you to feel like you are spreading the Word of Tim to the unconverted and were the very first person to ever root for Tebow, but I don't really care about any of that.

I've been as optimistic as anybody around here since I've joined this board, and haven't needed any of your dumbass 'help' to do so.

Bullshit

[Bullgator]

The truth is either you are a fan or your not.

You calling my fanhood "circle jerking" and your fanhood "being a real db fan" is hypocritical.. you cant have it both ways... either fanhood and passion for you team and your players is being a REAL FAN or its all circle jerking.

I do nothing more than go to bat for my boy teebs... something i would HOPE you would do for your boy elway... now tell me "real fan" are you a elway circle jerker?

[Shananahan]

I do nothing more than go to bat for my boy teebs...
This is hilariously true.

[Bullgator]

This is hilariously true.

Is that supposed to bother me lol. It is very true and I don't get why its bad.

Here is me... "Teebs is cool yall..."
Here is you.."Lamp."

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The truth is either you are a fan or your not.

You calling my fanhood "circle jerking" and your fanhood "being a real db fan" is hypocritical.. you cant have it both ways... either fanhood and passion for you team and your players is being a REAL FAN or its all circle jerking.

I do nothing more than go to bat for my boy teebs... something i would HOPE you would do for your boy elway... now tell me "real fan" are you a elway circle jerker?

The key word is PLAYERS - NOT PLAYER

[claymore]

Get used to it. Optimism does not go over well here. If Tebow wins a superbowl and multiple MVP's, then MAYBE some will say he's pretty good.

Others will still say Cutler would have been better and shits pure gold.

Thats retarded. If Tebow does all that we will love him like a brother. I seriously hope tebow is better than Cutler. I doubt he is, but I really hope he is.

[Bullgator]

Thats retarded. If Tebow does all that we will love him like a brother. I seriously hope tebow is better than Cutler. I doubt he is, but I really hope he is.

you just confirmed what he said... After he does all that you will love him like a brother....

I know your sick of hearing this but he owns cutler in the face

[Bullgator]

The key word is PLAYERS - NOT PLAYER

True, I dont post much about the other players yet... I do have my favs and know them all... but till Teebs is firmly at the helm there is no other story line IMO.

Tebow is the only point to argue over isnt he? and thats why we log on apparently... to have a debate... name one other position to debate on this team and ill gladly discuss that.

maybe running back but we have yet to hit free agency so thats a bit premature.

[LordTrychon]

True, I dont post much about the other players yet... I do have my favs and know them all... but till Teebs is firmly at the helm there is no other story line IMO.

Tebow is the only point to argue over isnt he? and thats why we log on apparently... to have a debate... name one other position to debate on this team and ill gladly discuss that.

maybe running back but we have yet to hit free agency so thats a bit premature.

On a team that went 4-12, there's plenty of positions that could use discussion. ;)

[Bullgator]

On a team that went 4-12, there's plenty of positions that could use discussion. ;)

I actually think we have a good team other than DT... The offense is fine. The coaching was a problem, but I think DB fans will be very pleased with this years squad.

Belief and moral + plus poor coaching was the reason last year was so bad. That and stopping the run.

dont forget that von miller will help with run stopping as well... one solid DT to eat up bodies and Fox will scheme a nice D around our talent.

9-7 at least this year... last years record did not reflect the quality of players on this team.

having said all that... I wont get a repsonse... you wanna know why? because unless i use the word Tebow i cant get a response... better to get a negative reaction than none at all.

ask Top.. he was so bored he actually took me off iggy just so we could argue!

[LordTrychon]

I actually think we have a good team other than DT... The offense is fine. The coaching was a problem, but I think DB fans will be very pleased with this years squad.

Belief and moral + plus poor coaching was the reason last year was so bad. That and stopping the run.

dont forget that von miller will help with run stopping as well... one solid DT to eat up bodies and Fox will scheme a nice D around our talent.

9-7 at least this year... last years record did not reflect the quality of players on this team.

having said all that... I wont get a repsonse... you wanna know why? because unless i use the word Tebow i cant get a response... better to get a negative reaction than none at all.

ask Top.. he was so bored he actually took me off iggy just so we could argue!

Well, here's the thing.... there's plenty of people who disagree with you on whether or not that's the only thing wrong... and even if you think that we're fine in those areas, you can still add to the discussion. The naysayers can't argue with themselves.