Today we would draft at #...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm gravytraining this info, so here is the link for the dude who does the actual work:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=264815&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

So as of now, we'd pick 12th in the draft. A win tonight vaults us into the high teens while a loss tonight likely gets us into the top 10. Regardless...who is a good fit at #12?

[MOtorboat]

I'm gravytraining this info, so here is the link for the dude who does the actual work:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=264815&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

So as of now, we'd pick 12th in the draft. A win tonight vaults us into the high teens while a loss tonight likely gets us into the top 10. Regardless...who is a good fit at #12?

Actually, as a division winner, wouldn't we be drafting 18th?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Nope. Unless ya make the SB, you pick according to record.

[Flatinum]

Nope. Unless ya make the SB, you pick according to record.

All non playoff teams draft before playoff teams regardless of record. So if Denver were to get lucky and win their division the highest they could draft is 21.

[underrated29]

Whatever safety is available. i dont care what position we take him as long as we take one.

If we can sucker the skins into another deal. Maybe trade back with them and pick up their 2nd rdr too.

Then we could go MLB (spikey, ray, lary, whoever is there in the 20's from WA) then in rd 2 we can get a good S (rolle etc.) and with thier 2nd get a good CB or DE.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

All non playoff teams draft before playoff teams regardless of record. So if Denver were to get lucky and win their division the highest they could draft is 21.

As always, here are the caveats:

1. This is based on the raw, regular-season information only. It does not take playoff performances into account.

2. There are going to be ties. In cases of two-way ties, the NFL flips a coin to decide which team picks first. If more than two teams are tied (as Kansas City, Seattle, and St Louis are in this week's update), the NFL reverts to a complex series of tie-breakers. Put simply, until the regular season is over, I don't care enough to try and figure these things out. Coincidentally, neither does the NFL. In these circumstances, I use good old-fashioned alphabetic order to sort teams. If you don't like it, too bad.

3. There is a general misconception that the last 12 picks go to playoff teams. This is not the case. Unless they make the Super Bowl, a 9-7 team that makes the playoffs will not pick ahead of a 10-6 team that did not make the playoffs.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Of course, a lot hinges on Torain's perfromance the rest of the way, but I think it's imperative that we use some of those extra late round picks to get 1 or 2 additional 2nd round picks. There (at this point) appears to be quite a dropoff in talent after round 2 for the positions we need most.

First off, this does not appear to be a great DE or DT draft. Those DTs that do have high grades seem to be 3-4 style.

There are about 3-4 Safeties...Moore, Mays, Rolle and Chung...that are projected to be instant difference makers, but then a major dropoff.

Same w/ MLB. After Maul, Lauren and Spikes it gets rather thin. Beckwith of LSU appears to be 4th on the list.

If all of the RBs who declare, do declare, this will be a deep group. Problem is, the talent will all be sucked up by the end of round 2. Moreno, McCoy, Spiller, Wells and James Davis are legit prospects. If a James Davis, or even Spiller, makes it to mid second round, it'd be real hard to pass on em. The'd be long gone by round 3. Again though, it's moot if Torain shows true potential.

OLB which may be a spot Shanny surprises us all with is fairly deep...but it will depend oin the health of Boss. As much as I don't like him, he still just signed w/ us and he is still Champ's brother. Curry, Cushing, Sintim and Freeman lead a very soild group.

I agree this scenario isn't very realistic, but if we somehow maneuvered all those late picks (or Bly) to add 2 additional #2s we could be looking at a draft class that included:

1-Brandon Spikes
2a-Patrick Chung
2b-James Davis
2c-Clint Sintim

That seemingly "fixes" the LB corps and improves the Safety spot exponentially althewhile giving us a true all around RB we've been missing since CP left.

Whatever picks that remained could be used on remaining depth/needs.

[underrated29]

As always, here are the caveats:

1. This is based on the raw, regular-season information only. It does not take playoff performances into account.

2. There are going to be ties. In cases of two-way ties, the NFL flips a coin to decide which team picks first. If more than two teams are tied (as Kansas City, Seattle, and St Louis are in this week's update), the NFL reverts to a complex series of tie-breakers. Put simply, until the regular season is over, I don't care enough to try and figure these things out. Coincidentally, neither does the NFL. In these circumstances, I use good old-fashioned alphabetic order to sort teams. If you don't like it, too bad.

3. There is a general misconception that the last 12 picks go to playoff teams. This is not the case. Unless they make the Super Bowl, a 9-7 team that makes the playoffs will not pick ahead of a 10-6 team that did not make the playoffs.


Didnt something like that happen last year, or the year before?

Where we didnt make the playoffs and the giants did, or somthng, and they pciked ahead of us....Or whichever teams were involved.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Yeah...it's happened before.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

upcoming RB FAs

Brandon Jacobs, UFA, New York Giants

Jacobs is a tough runner, and that type of running has kept him from being on the field in parts of the past two seasons. However, when Jacobs is on the field and does get the ball, he picks up tough yards. He averaged five yards a carry during the Giants Super Bowl season, gaining over 1,000 yards in just 11 games. He is a quality Goal line back, but is also becoming more than that. Derrick Ward and Ahmad Bradshaw contribute to New York’s backfield as well, so while the team likely wants Jacobs to stick around, Jacobs could have other plans and may bolt for a team willing to give him more of the carries. There are a lot of questions concerning the Giants backfield and who will play what role this upcoming season and once those questions are answered it will be a lot easier for Jacobs to make a decision on his future.

Other Running Backs
J.J. Arrington, UFA, Arizona Cardinals
Correll Buckhalter, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Jesse Chatman, UFA, New York Jets
Heath Evans, UFA, New England Patriots
Ryan Moats, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Maurice Morris, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Darren Sproles, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Aaron Stecker, UFA, New Orleans Saints
Ricky Williams, UFA, Miami Dolphins

[LRtagger]

sproles would be a great #2 back and would help relive some pressure from royal as a kick returner. royal could do punts and sproles could do kickoffs. sproles reminds me of a faster Q. the only back i think we should keep is torain or young and just start over at rb.

jacobs/sproles would be a nice 1, 2 punch.

We already have a guy like that in Alridge who looked great in preseason.

IMO we need an all-around great back with power and speed that can take on defenders when necessary and make guys miss in the open field. It sounds cliche, but we need a Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis again.

I like Jacobs and Williams. Williams is a no-go for obvious reasons and I think NY resigns Jacobs.

Its hard to tell where the RBs in this draft class will go after Wells and Moreno. I have seen some mocks where the next RB taken is not until the 3rd just because there is no real need to RB right now in the league. Everyone that needed a RB drafted one last year.

With that said, we may be able to either move up into the late second or get a good guy in the 3rd. Here is who we might have a shot at:

LeSean McCoy - STUD. An all-around GREAT back. Great breakaway speed and excellent balance. Should be available in the 2nd if he declares.

Javon Ringer - STUD. Another great all-around back. Runs low and quick. Should be available late 1st-2nd (2nd is probably more realistic).

DeMarco Murray - 4.4 40 speed. Very fast, but has durability concerns especially at the NFL level. Didnt play well against Texas in front of the entire nation. Unless he tears it up at the combine he will be a 2nd rounder if he declares.

CJ Spiller - One of two good Clemson backs. He is more of a #2 back. An all-around utility type guy. Very fast. Can return kicks and catch balls out of the backfield. Seems to get knicked up. If he declares, should be a 2nd day guy.

James Davis - Another guy from Clemson. Good all-around back. Seperated shoulder during spring practice, but seems to be fine. Should be available 2nd day.


There are lots of other good backs in the 2009 draft. Arian Foster, Donald Brown, Tyrell Sutton, Rashad Jennings, etc. I would be pretty surprised if we did not take a RB in the 3rd or 4th of next year. This RB class is very much like last year's.

Sorry I know this isnt the draft forum


PS. The two guys I wrote "STUD" beside would be my first picks.

[G_Money]

We already have a guy like that in Alridge who looked great in preseason.

IMO we need an all-around great back with power and speed that can take on defenders when necessary and make guys miss in the open field. It sounds cliche, but we need a Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis again.

I like Jacobs and Williams. Williams is a no-go for obvious reasons and I think NY resigns Jacobs.

Its hard to tell where the RBs in this draft class will go after Wells and Moreno. I have seen some mocks where the next RB taken is not until the 3rd just because there is no real need to RB right now in the league. Everyone that needed a RB drafted one last year.

With that said, we may be able to either move up into the late second or get a good guy in the 3rd. Here is who we might have a shot at:

LeSean McCoy - STUD. An all-around GREAT back. Great breakaway speed and excellent balance. Should be available in the 2nd if he declares.

Javon Ringer - STUD. Another great all-around back. Runs low and quick. Should be available late 1st-2nd (2nd is probably more realistic).

DeMarco Murray - 4.4 40 speed. Very fast, but has durability concerns especially at the NFL level. Didnt play well against Texas in front of the entire nation. Unless he tears it up at the combine he will be a 2nd rounder if he declares.

CJ Spiller - One of two good Clemson backs. He is more of a #2 back. An all-around utility type guy. Very fast. Can return kicks and catch balls out of the backfield. Seems to get knicked up. If he declares, should be a 2nd day guy.

James Davis - Another guy from Clemson. Good all-around back. Seperated shoulder during spring practice, but seems to be fine. Should be available 2nd day.


There are lots of other good backs in the 2009 draft. Arian Foster, Donald Brown, Tyrell Sutton, Rashad Jennings, etc. I would be pretty surprised if we did not take a RB in the 3rd or 4th of next year. This RB class is very much like last year's.

Sorry I know this isnt the draft forum


PS. The two guys I wrote "STUD" beside would be my first picks.

Love your work, tagger, but this draft is not like last year's.

This year's top 10 in way-too-early estimated order of draft, picked only slightly out-of-a-hat style:

1) Beanie Wells
2) Knowshon Moreno
3) CJ Spiller
4) LeSean McCoy
5) Javon Ringer
6) Donald Brown
7) Demarco Murray
8) James Davis
9) Shonn Greene
10) Arian Foster

The combine makes a mockery of all pre-combine and pre-bowl placement, but let's just pretend that top 10 list is somewhat accurate.

Last's year's top 10 in actual draft order:

1) DMC
2) J-Stew
3) Felix Jones
4) Mendenhall
5) Chris Johnson
6) Forte
7) Ray Rice
8) Kevin Smith
9) Jamaal Charles
10) Steve Slaton

All in the first 3 rounds.

Now mix em. How high do this year's likely first-day studs fare against last year's?

My quick list would go (assuming that the drafted order from last year is the "right" order and not moving those guys ahead of one another):

1) DMC
2) J-Stew
3) Felix Jones
4) Mendenhall
Beanie Wells
5) Chris Johnson
6) Forte
Lesean McCoy
Knowshon Moreno
CJ Spiller


And I could see putting Beanie lower than both Johnson and Forte. My own personal list last year had Forte as the 3rd best back in the draft, ahead of DMC.

I dunno how your lists look, but Wells is pretty much a Top 10 lock this year. If he'd come out last year he'd have been a 2nd rounder IMO. Knowshon is a very good talent, but I can't see him leaping over the bigger backs like Mendenhall and J-Stew last year, and Jones and Johnson have proven to be fairly awesome talents in Moreno's style as pros this year. Slaton projects to over a thousand yards this year, btw, as the 10th back taken. Ray Rice ran for 150+ yards in his first action as The Guy against Cleveland. There were a LOT of backs of quality last year. More than I ever recall seeing come out at one time.

That's gonna be a concern to some teams that might draft backs high, right? That this year's talent is not nearly as deep or outstanding as last year's, but the prices remain the same for draft slots.

I only see 3-4 first day backs in this year's draft. I still see him going in Round 3-4.

Last year there were 6 legit backs in the first 2 rounds, at least the equal of even the best backs in this draft.

So either this year's backs are gonna get over-drafted, or there'll be an interesting run on backs in the 3rd and 4th rounds. It's funny - the spillover from all those good RBs last year really might push decent backs to later slots by force of comparison and lack of need. I have early money on a round 4 selection of James Davis by us, I guess.

But this draft reminds me more of the '06 draft, actually, where Peterson and Lynch were the real draws, and everybody else was a decent back with issues, but not a stud.

I'd love McCoy though. Ringer reminds me of Rice, I guess, and I wouldn't put a lot of effort into getting him. I prefer Shonn Greene, James Davis and Donald Brown all to Ringer.

JMO. :beer: Still, it's never to early to look for a RB or 4 if you're the Broncos.

Apparently we're gonna need em in bunches. :coffee:

~G

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Rice actually has looked pretty nice now that he's healthy.

And McCoy, if he declares, will be a 1st rounder. Wells, Moreno and McCoy will all go round 1 w/ Davis, Spiller and Green not too far behind. Arian Foster is a steaming pile.

[G_Money]

I don't think there are 3 teams willing to pay first round prices for a RB, man. Who is going RB in the first?

Dallas - has 3, no thanks.
Giants - not bloody likely.
Philly - With Buckhalter and Westrbrook, I really doubt it.
Redskins - not as long as Portis is there they aren't.

Bills - Have Lynch, he's fine.
Dolphins - nuh uh.
Patriots - not likely, since they have Maroney.
Jets - possibility, but with Jones on pace for a 1200 yard season it's a little hard to see the expense of a 1st round RB.

Cardinals - they love Hightower.
49ers - Gore and Foster should make a first round back mostly unnecessary, even for an O that needs some players.
Seahawks - don't have a star, but they like Julius Jones and Maurice Morris as a RBBC. New HC might decide differently I guess.
Rams - nope.

Broncos - HEY! It's us! We could use one, but do we ever take a RB in the first?
Chiefs - have Charles, Savage and oh yeah, LJ. I don't see it.
Raiders - Have DMC, but with Al Davis who can say what they'll do?
Chargers - LT and Sproles make a 1st round back unnecessary still.

Bears - Have Forte.
Lions - got Kevin Smith, still don't know about him. They need the whole rest of the team first.
Packers - still like Grant fine, and gave him money too.
Vikings - you're kidding, right?

Ravens - have McGahee and Rice, don't need a 1st round back.
Bengals - FINALLY, a team that has a RB need. Of course, they need a whole lot of other things, but there are worse things to do from a Public Relations standpoint than to draft Beanie Wells, the home state kid. We'll see what their GM decides after this abortion of a season.
Browns - might also decide to get on the Beanie Wells bandwagon if he's available, since he's also hometown for them. And Lewis just has a lot of miles on him. Could happen...but again, they have LOTS of needs.
Steelers - nope. Have Parker and Mendenhall.

Falcons - have Michael Turner and his 1500+ yard paced self.
Panthers - have J-Stew and DeAngelo. They aren't looking.
Saints - still have Deuce and Reggie. Probably not in the market either.
Bucs - Have the ageless Dunn, and they like Graham, with Cadillac still around. Not in the market unless Graham is really damaged IMO.

Texans - Slaton's showing some things, and Gary doesn't believe in 1st round RB picks either. I think they take a back, but not in the first.
Colts - maaaaaaybe. Addai is injured and they don't have a lot of other guys, but I still don't see it.
Jags - MJD and Fred. Doubt it.
Titans - have Chris Johnson, not taking another high-round back.

That's everybody isn't it? I don't see the First Round RB needs on most of the teams. Or if they have them, they have other priorities that should come first.

Maybe it's just me, but a guy might be a first round talent who slips. I think a lot of backs are gonna slip, maybe even to the 2nd day.

If so, we shouldn't be shy about picking one up - if we haven't already.

~G

[dogfish]

good analysis, G. . . the one team you have listed as a "no" that i could see taking a back in the 1st is the G-men, IF they let jacobs walk in free agency. . . .


also, since we're on the subject, who do you guys think fits best here? i can see mccoy being a freakin' monster in the ZBS. . . .

[G_Money]

good analysis, G. . . the one team you have listed as a "no" that i could see taking a back in the 1st is the G-men, IF they let jacobs walk in free agency. . . .


also, since we're on the subject, who do you guys think fits best here? i can see mccoy being a freakin' monster in the ZBS. . . .

Hey dog. :beer: I'm with you, McCoy's my favorite back for us in this draft. He would KILL in our system. KILL.

I like Davis for us.

I love Shonn Greene. He's just a masher and a hard-nosed player who's faster than he looks.

As for the G-Men, I could see them taking Moreno. Early line says Beanie goes to the Bengals, say, and Moreno goes to either the Giants or the Jets.

Spiller and McCoy should be the next two off the board, and then it's a crapshoot based on the Combine. Ringer probably has enough pub to go pretty high. Davis has faded to the background, and he could be available for us later. Greene has impressed a lot of people, but his combine time is gonna be a key for him.

This draft doesn't have as many great backs as last year, but few drafts ever will.

There are still a few backs worth lookin' at. HARD.

~G

[shank]

i saw a little thing on shonn greene and started watching him, and love what i see. he should be around in the mid-rounds won't he?

[Nomad]

Seeing that alot of these smaller guys work out in the NFL ie Sproles, Hall! You think Trindan Holliday (LSU) would be worth a look late in the draft or afterwards if he's not drafted!!

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don't think there are 3 teams willing to pay first round prices for a RB, man. Who is going RB in the first?

Dallas - has 3, no thanks.
Giants - not bloody likely.
Philly - With Buckhalter and Westrbrook, I really doubt it.
Redskins - not as long as Portis is there they aren't.

Bills - Have Lynch, he's fine.
Dolphins - nuh uh.
Patriots - not likely, since they have Maroney.
Jets - possibility, but with Jones on pace for a 1200 yard season it's a little hard to see the expense of a 1st round RB.

Cardinals - they love Hightower.
49ers - Gore and Foster should make a first round back mostly unnecessary, even for an O that needs some players.
Seahawks - don't have a star, but they like Julius Jones and Maurice Morris as a RBBC. New HC might decide differently I guess.
Rams - nope.

Broncos - HEY! It's us! We could use one, but do we ever take a RB in the first?
Chiefs - have Charles, Savage and oh yeah, LJ. I don't see it.
Raiders - Have DMC, but with Al Davis who can say what they'll do?
Chargers - LT and Sproles make a 1st round back unnecessary still.

Bears - Have Forte.
Lions - got Kevin Smith, still don't know about him. They need the whole rest of the team first.
Packers - still like Grant fine, and gave him money too.
Vikings - you're kidding, right?

Ravens - have McGahee and Rice, don't need a 1st round back.
Bengals - FINALLY, a team that has a RB need. Of course, they need a whole lot of other things, but there are worse things to do from a Public Relations standpoint than to draft Beanie Wells, the home state kid. We'll see what their GM decides after this abortion of a season.
Browns - might also decide to get on the Beanie Wells bandwagon if he's available, since he's also hometown for them. And Lewis just has a lot of miles on him. Could happen...but again, they have LOTS of needs.
Steelers - nope. Have Parker and Mendenhall.

Falcons - have Michael Turner and his 1500+ yard paced self.
Panthers - have J-Stew and DeAngelo. They aren't looking.
Saints - still have Deuce and Reggie. Probably not in the market either.
Bucs - Have the ageless Dunn, and they like Graham, with Cadillac still around. Not in the market unless Graham is really damaged IMO.

Texans - Slaton's showing some things, and Gary doesn't believe in 1st round RB picks either. I think they take a back, but not in the first.
Colts - maaaaaaybe. Addai is injured and they don't have a lot of other guys, but I still don't see it.
Jags - MJD and Fred. Doubt it.
Titans - have Chris Johnson, not taking another high-round back.

That's everybody isn't it? I don't see the First Round RB needs on most of the teams. Or if they have them, they have other priorities that should come first.

Maybe it's just me, but a guy might be a first round talent who slips. I think a lot of backs are gonna slip, maybe even to the 2nd day.

If so, we shouldn't be shy about picking one up - if we haven't already.

~G


Good analysis G. Some additional notes if I may:


Philly - With Buckhalter and Westrbrook, I really doubt it...If they don't go Safety, I could see them taking a RB. Westbrook is injury prone and Buckhalter is no more than a career back up.

Redskins - not as long as Portis is there they aren't...They COULD go RB if there are no WRs available. CP his some wear on his tires and although they have a nice backup, some youth could help...especially considering the RB depth w/in their own division

Bills-Have Lynch...BUT Bills have been known to take RBs when a need wasn't necessarily there.

Jets - possibility, but with Jones on pace for a 1200 yard season it's a little hard to see the expense of a 1st round RB...Jones never gets the credit he should be due. I wouldn't put it past NYJ to go RB.

Seahawks - don't have a star, but they like Julius Jones and Maurice Morris as a RBBC. New HC might decide differently I guess...RB is a MUST. No way they can really like those 2 except that it's all they have available. I'll be shocked if Chris Wells isn't a Seahawk in 2009.

Bengals - FINALLY, a team that has a RB need. Of course, they need a whole lot of other things, but there are worse things to do from a Public Relations standpoint than to draft Beanie Wells, the home state kid...CLEARLY RB is an option here.

Bucs - Have the ageless Dunn, and they like Graham, with Cadillac still around. Not in the market unless Graham is really damaged IMO...RB is legit need. Dunn is OLD and Graham is a huge question mark.

[G_Money]

Good analysis G. Some additional notes if I may:


Philly - With Buckhalter and Westrbrook, I really doubt it...If they don't go Safety, I could see them taking a RB. Westbrook is injury prone and Buckhalter is no more than a career back up.

Redskins - not as long as Portis is there they aren't...They COULD go RB if there are no WRs available. CP his some wear on his tires and although they have a nice backup, some youth could help...especially considering the RB depth w/in their own division

Bills-Have Lynch...BUT Bills have been known to take RBs when a need wasn't necessarily there.

Jets - possibility, but with Jones on pace for a 1200 yard season it's a little hard to see the expense of a 1st round RB...Jones never gets the credit he should be due. I wouldn't put it past NYJ to go RB.

Seahawks - don't have a star, but they like Julius Jones and Maurice Morris as a RBBC. New HC might decide differently I guess...RB is a MUST. No way they can really like those 2 except that it's all they have available. I'll be shocked if Chris Wells isn't a Seahawk in 2009.

Bengals - FINALLY, a team that has a RB need. Of course, they need a whole lot of other things, but there are worse things to do from a Public Relations standpoint than to draft Beanie Wells, the home state kid...CLEARLY RB is an option here.

Bucs - Have the ageless Dunn, and they like Graham, with Cadillac still around. Not in the market unless Graham is really damaged IMO...RB is legit need. Dunn is OLD and Graham is a huge question mark.

Good stuff man. :beer:

I still don't see the Bills doing it, not in the first, and that's what we're talking about. They love Marshawn, and they're right on the cusp of being a legit team. No way they go for a frivolous 1st round RB...right?

The Jets and Redskins could, much like the Steelers did this year without a true need at the position, but both are still pretty happy with their backs. They might pick up a later back, but I'd bet against a first-rounder. Philly just doesn't run the ball enough to take a first round back IMO. They can get what they use for their system in a later round.

The Seahawks have to at least think about QB with Matt's back gone haywire again, and possibly for good. If Sam Bradford comes out, they've gotta go there. Maybe even for Colt. And I don't think you understand just how much they like Julius Jones. He's doing what he's doing against 8 and 9 man fronts, behind a bad OL. They have linemen needs, WR needs and QB needs all before RB needs.

I dunno, I can just see some non-Wells backs slipping this year. I'd say Wells and Moreno are the only two I would consider first-round locks. Wells doesn't get out of the state of Ohio. Moreno should be a consensus #2 RB pick. After that I think Spiller could be judged as a specialist (which IMO would be a mistake) and McCoy isn't doing overly special things in Pitt (what was it, under 40 yards in his last game?) thanks to some scheme things there.

We still have a looooooooooooooooong way to go before that all shakes out, though. Bowls and combines have a way of weird-ifying the draft standings. :D

~G

[underrated29]

The bills are also super high on fred jackson. I understand their history smilin, and you are right, but i dont think they sniff RB this year.....Also they drafted or signed xavior omon- who was one of my sleeper picks.

Seattle-possibly

Jets- They were going to take DMC, but oakland got to him first- so maybe. But i also agree that they are satisfied with TJ, and we know they love Leon W.

I dont know if we mentioned Houston yet, but steve slaton imo is not the answer. I have him in one of my FF leagues too. But i am uninformed on him as i have yet to see him run. So he might be what he is cracked up to be.



If lesean or another great back is there in the 2nd i would not be opposed, but i really think we absolutely half to come away from the first 3 rounds with a TOP NOTCH S, AND MLB/DE/DT

[G_Money]

I would seriously go with middle rounders like Myron Pryor and Mitch King over another flashy early bust on the DL. At least with guys like King I can be pretty sure they're gonna give it everything they have. And we could use the heart infusion on D.

Don't give me a 2-3 year line project with a first day pick. We can find one of those on the second day, especially if we get a real DL TEACHER in here to instruct the fellas in how to be all they can be.

Get scheme DL this year. While we're getting the scheme down, our first day's picks of MLB and S should be holding down the fort with their excess of talent. I want to see what our current DL have, if anything, in a scheme that isn't designed by chimps on an etch-a-sketch before I go committing tons of guaranteed funds to their replacements.

If we wanted to throw a curveball and take a RB like Shady McCoy, that would be fine too. Going with the next Portis wouldn't be bad, considering how our run game has suffered since we disposed of the last one for being too uppity.

~G

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Unfortunately King is way undersized for the NFL. He can get away w/ that in college, but the giants he will have to face at the next level will engulf him. I do love how he plays though. He'll have to get much bigger to get a shot to make a team.

[shank]

i think both SD and NO could get RBs early. deuce is old and getting injured a lot, and bush can't carry the load by himself. and sproles is a FA after this year in SD, though with hester there, they will probably look for another speed COP back if they don't retain sproles.

G, do you think greene will go in the first two rounds?

[G_Money]

Unfortunately King is way undersized for the NFL. He can get away w/ that in college, but the giants he will have to face at the next level will engulf him. I do love how he plays though. He'll have to get much bigger to get a shot to make a team.

If they move him to DE he'll be fine. He can hold the edge, stunt like crazy, and his motor has no quit in it. I'm a sucker for guys who leave it all on the field. He doesn't have the talent level but the way he plays reminds me of Kevin Greene.

Or maybe it's just the blond locks. :D

But I have a soft spot for King, and he'll probably be in any mocks I make up, most likely, just as Woodyard and Forte were for me last year.

And no, shaw, I don't think Shonn Greene will go on the first day - not unless he has a hellacious combine. For some reason he just doesn't get the love. Of course, I was accused of losing my damn mind when I called Matt Forte the 4th best back in the draft and was told in no uncertain terms he would not go before the 4th round. Sometimes a team sees what you think you see, and they make a "reach" pick. Forte's average ypc sucks because the Bears can't open a hole and they can't throw the ball further than 10 yards, but I don't think anybody would call him a reach right now. ;)

I think Shonn's a Round 3-4 guy unless he posts some serious combine numbers or blows up in a bowl or two. That's the hard thing to judge. Draftniks weight post-season and combine numbers really heavily. If he "just" keeps on doing what he's doing, I think he's a middle rounder.

We'll find out in 6 months I guess.

~G

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Right now the 4-5 teams end w/ the 13th pick and there are currently 8 teams w/ records of 5-4 (including Denver). Arizona, w/ a loss, would be the 9th. So tomorrow morning our draft position would be between 14 and 22. Not a bad are given our core needs. There are 3 stud MLBs and an OLB as well as a couple of Safeties that project in this range or a bit earlier. There are varying opinions regarding the 3 MLBs, but regardless, I'd be happy w/ whichever one fell our way. If not, William Moore and Taylor Mays project in this area. The OLB I would love to land is Aaron Curry of Wake Forest.

[studbucket]

I love this.

All the love for Hawkeyes is making me blush.

As far as Mitch King goes, I've thought of him more as a 3-4 DE than anything else. He's not exceptionally quick, and he's kind of undersized. I love him, but I am a little unsure of how he would do as a 4-3 DE...reminds me of Engleberger in that sense.

[Lonestar]

It is rare IIRC to draft a SAM in round one.. well at least in most clubs with mickey you never know for sure..

So if we are unable to come up with a legit difference maker at Mike or Free safety (my definition=deep centerfield guy) then it should be BAP DL type IMO..

None of our Safeties IIRC were drafted higher than #2 so I'd refine what I said IF we are unable to come up with a stud MIKE then BAP..

We certainly do not need another WILL with DJ, Winborn and Woodyard available..

[G_Money]

It is rare IIRC to draft a SAM in round one.. well at least in most clubs with mickey you never know for sure..

So if we are unable to come up with a legit difference maker at Mike or Free safety (my definition=deep centerfield guy) then it should be BAP DL type IMO..

None of our Safeties IIRC were drafted higher than #2 so I'd refine what I said IF we are unable to come up with a stud MIKE then BAP..

We certainly do not need another WILL with DJ, Winborn and Woodyard available..

After a fantastic Senior Bowl performance (2 interceptions), Atwater was drafted by the Denver Broncos in 1989 with the 20th Overall selection. The Broncos rush defense immediately improved under Atwater, from 27th in 1988 to 7th in 1989. Steve finished second in Defensive Rookie of the Year voting.

Derrick Thomas beat him out for DROY. It was a good year for HOF players in the first round. What were there, like 6ish with the credentials to get in?

There are several VERY good safeties in this draft. I think we can get one of them in the second. If we decide to get one in the first I won't cry, I just think MLB is thinner than S this year. However, there are a couple of safeties with all-pro talent if they can harness it. I'd like to find out at some point during the first day that one of them will be harnessing it for us.

If we decide to avoid taking the MLB and S we desperately need for the 3rd year in a row, then either a) we better have signed some damned good ones in the offseason or b) ... I don't have a b. There is no b. It like spoons. No Spoons. No B's either.

~G

[dogfish]

Derrick Thomas beat him out for DROY. It was a good year for HOF players in the first round. What were there, like 6ish with the credentials to get in?

There are several VERY good safeties in this draft. I think we can get one of them in the second. If we decide to get one in the first I won't cry, I just think MLB is thinner than S this year. However, there are a couple of safeties with all-pro talent if they can harness it. I'd like to find out at some point during the first day that one of them will be harnessing it for us.

If we decide to avoid taking the MLB and S we desperately need for the 3rd year in a row, then either a) we better have signed some damned good ones in the offseason or b) ... I don't have a b. There is no b. It like spoons. No Spoons. No B's either.

~G

if we decide to go the free agency route at safety, there are going to be a few good ones available this year-- namely sean jones and jermaine phillips. . of course that's assuming they don't get franchised or re-signed between now and then. . . i doubt the browns let jones go, but i did read recently that the bucs might want to see what piscatelli can do before they fork over the big bucks to phillips-- it's a little tough for me to imagine they'll let a player of his caliber go, but they did let guys like lynch, sapp and macfarland walk. . .

[broncosinindy]

Good analysis G. Some additional notes if I may:


Philly - With Buckhalter and Westrbrook, I really doubt it...If they don't go Safety, I could see them taking a RB. Westbrook is injury prone and Buckhalter is no more than a career back up.

Redskins - not as long as Portis is there they aren't...They COULD go RB if there are no WRs available. CP his some wear on his tires and although they have a nice backup, some youth could help...especially considering the RB depth w/in their own division

Bills-Have Lynch...BUT Bills have been known to take RBs when a need wasn't necessarily there.

Jets - possibility, but with Jones on pace for a 1200 yard season it's a little hard to see the expense of a 1st round RB...Jones never gets the credit he should be due. I wouldn't put it past NYJ to go RB.

Seahawks - don't have a star, but they like Julius Jones and Maurice Morris as a RBBC. New HC might decide differently I guess...RB is a MUST. No way they can really like those 2 except that it's all they have available. I'll be shocked if Chris Wells isn't a Seahawk in 2009.

Bengals - FINALLY, a team that has a RB need. Of course, they need a whole lot of other things, but there are worse things to do from a Public Relations standpoint than to draft Beanie Wells, the home state kid...CLEARLY RB is an option here.

Bucs - Have the ageless Dunn, and they like Graham, with Cadillac still around. Not in the market unless Graham is really damaged IMO...RB is legit need. Dunn is OLD and Graham is a huge question mark.
i consider a WR for the Seahawks a HUGE HUGE need

[SmilinAssasSin27]

As of today, we're #15. It's actually a good thing in tis regard that our division is so bad. It weakens our strength of schedule. If we don't get things to gether and make a solid run, KC and Oak sucking so bad will actually help us in the long run.

[LRtagger]

Love your work, tagger, but this draft is not like last year's.

~G


I didnt want to quote your whole post, but great work (as usual).

What I meant by it being like last year's draft is that there will be great talent the entire way through and probably even into UDFAs. Not to say the talent is comparable at every spot vs last year, but there are more than 5 backs that could make an impact for their team as rookies.

There aren't many drafts that you will see multiple studs available, and to have two in a row is pretty significant. It means that all of the teams that drafted RB last year probably wont be looking this year which really opens the door for us to get a horse in the 2nd or 3rd round.

IMO even with our defensive needs, we would be foolish to pass on a good RB this year.

[broncohead]

I didnt want to quote your whole post, but great work (as usual).

What I meant by it being like last year's draft is that there will be great talent the entire way through and probably even into UDFAs. Not to say the talent is comparable at every spot vs last year, but there are more than 5 backs that could make an impact for their team as rookies.

There aren't many drafts that you will see multiple studs available, and to have two in a row is pretty significant. It means that all of the teams that drafted RB last year probably wont be looking this year which really opens the door for us to get a horse in the 2nd or 3rd round.

IMO even with our defensive needs, we would be foolish to pass on a good RB this year.

I agree. It doesn't look like Selvin and Torrain are guys that are going to stay healthy so a starting RB will be needed in FA or the draft (2nd and beyond). Hopefully a few of the defensive holes will be addressed in the offseason with legit players.

[broncohead]

With the #1 pick could a guy like Brian Orakpo (DE) be available in the mid-teens? All I've heard about the guy is that he is a workout worrior with first round grade as of this point. What do you guys think?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

We're now at #18 w/ a very winnable game upcoming. Teams w/ the same records as our are currently slated to pick between 18 and 25.

[G_Money]

With the #1 pick could a guy like Brian Orakpo (DE) be available in the mid-teens? All I've heard about the guy is that he is a workout worrior with first round grade as of this point. What do you guys think?

Orakpo, when healthy, is a demon.

My concern about him are his knees. This is the second year in a row he's missing time with knee injuries. I'm a believer in the guy's talent but he needs to stay healthy.

OTOH, he should be a combine freak and could boost his status even higher. He could be one of the first 2 DEs chosen, so that'd take him off our board if the Broncos keep doing this silly winning thing. ;) If he's healthy by combine time I think he goes top-10.

If he's not...We've just had trouble with highly-touted DL and their lower limbs over the years. Call me a believer in his talent but nervous about the length of his career. If he gets to us I may have a love/hate thing going on with the pick, because unless we start losing he'd only likely get to us because of questions about those knees.

~G

[lex]

Orakpo, when healthy, is a demon.

My concern about him are his knees. This is the second year in a row he's missing time with knee injuries. I'm a believer in the guy's talent but he needs to stay healthy.

OTOH, he should be a combine freak and could boost his status even higher. He could be one of the first 2 DEs chosen, so that'd take him off our board if the Broncos keep doing this silly winning thing. ;) If he's healthy by combine time I think he goes top-10.

If he's not...We've just had trouble with highly-touted DL and their lower limbs over the years. Call me a believer in his talent but nervous about the length of his career. If he gets to us I may have a love/hate thing going on with the pick, because unless we start losing he'd only likely get to us because of questions about those knees.

~G


I really hope we get someone who is lower risk than a DE. Id rather get someone who could likely contribute sooner than what one typically sees out of DEs. Id rather see a S, MLB, C, or RB in 1.

[turftoad]

I really hope we get someone who is lower risk than a DE. Id rather get someone who could likely contribute sooner than what one typically sees out of DEs. Id rather see a S, MLB, C, or RB in 1.

We won't take a center. There isn't much of a need there.

And............ I hope we don't take a RB in the 1st round. We need some top notch play making defensive player.

[underrated29]

We won't take a center. There isn't much of a need there.

And............ I hope we don't take a RB in the 1st round. We need some top notch play making defensive player.


I disagree with you on the issue of Center. I think its being shadowed by the great play of weigman, but he along with nails only has a little more left to give. We have lich, but from my understanding he gets overpowered easily, and is not yet polished in run blocking (although in our system it usually takes even the best player a while to develop those skills).

I am with you about RB. though.

Otherwise i agree with you and lex

S,MLB,DT,DE,C,RB-if none of the others are available.

[Lonestar]

I really hope we get someone who is lower risk than a DE. Id rather get someone who could likely contribute sooner than what one typically sees out of DEs. I'd rather see a S, MLB, C, or RB in 1.


about DE's typically they do indeed take a year or so to work themselves into the starting LINEUP..

and mostly that is because those drafted in round one are going to really lousy teams.. and have virtually no other decent talent around them..

While I will not state Thomas, Robertson, Doom, moss are skells they now have sufficient experience under their belt to perhaps have a top notch DT or DE come in and actually have a real productive year..

as for RB I can't comprehend that mikey would waste #1 on one unless he has zero expectations on the existing ones.. His comments on torain, what we are seeing out of Hillis, perhaps Pope and then of course alot of tater fans gushing.. unless all of these crash and burn over the next 5 games we are overloaded with RB's

Unless Lichtensteiger has blown it he is our next C.

blowing an number 1 on center is rarely IF ever done since mickey has been the HC the average "first" center taken was number 61 late in the second.. in most years it was round 3 or later.. only 4 times since 1995 has a center been taken in round one..
1999-17 woody starter day one except for injuries but on 3 different teams 6'3" 335
2003-21 faine has bounced to 3 different teams CLE, NOL now TPA 6'3" 291
2005-26 Spencer did not start till 3 games into the 2nd year.. 6'3" 312
2006-29 mangold 3 year starter 6'4" 300
average position taken #23

IMHO taking a center in #1 is beyond stupid unless ALL DT, DE, MLB or S prospects are second rounders.

About the only two positions that lend themselves to almost instant starter status in S and MLB but they have to be top notch..

[turftoad]

about DE's typically they do indeed take a year or so to work themselves into the starting LINEUP..

and mostly that is because those drafted in round one are going to really lousy teams.. and have virtually no other decent talent around them..

While I will not state Thomas, Robertson, Doom, moss are skells they now have sufficient experience under their belt to perhaps have a top notch DT or DE come in and actually have a real productive year..

as for RB I can't comprehend that mikey would waste #1 on one unless he has zero expectations on the existing ones.. His comments on torain, what we are seeing out of Hillis, perhaps Pope and then of course alot of tater fans gushing.. unless all of these crash and burn over the next 5 games we are overloaded with RB's

Unless Lichtensteiger has blown it he is our next C.

blowing an number 1 on center is rarely IF ever done since mickey has been the HC the average "first" center taken was number 61 late in the second.. in most years it was round 3 or later.. only 4 times since 1995 has a center been taken in round one..
1999-17 woody starter day one except for injuries but on 3 different teams 6'3" 335
2003-21 faine has bounced to 3 different teams CLE, NOL now TPA 6'3" 291
2005-26 Spencer did not start till 3 games into the 2nd year.. 6'3" 312
2006-29 mangold 3 year starter 6'4" 300
average position taken #23

IMHO taking a center in #1 is beyond stupid unless ALL DT, DE, MLB or S prospects are second rounders.

About the only two positions that lend themselves to almost instant starter status in S and MLB but they have to be top notch..

A top notch S or MLB would be fine by me.

[Lonestar]

A top notch S or MLB would be fine by me.


NO NO NO NO

both are mandatory

unless Larsen, Woodyard and the other drafted Safety step up and finnish HUGE..

[lex]

We won't take a center. There isn't much of a need there.

And............ I hope we don't take a RB in the 1st round. We need some top notch play making defensive player.

The center I was referring to is Mack, who could also play G. It doesnt seem like a need and it may not be yet, but its a definite upgrade. I would get him if we feel good about Larsen at Mike and Moore or Mays are off the board. Mack then becomes a player who can fortify our running game as a BPA type pick. Ive for a while thought that Hamilton gets ragdolled too much. Wiegman is ok but uprgredeable. And Liechtensteiger as a mid round pick is a project. But in any event, the following is a line I could live with going forward:

LT Clady
LG Lichtensteiger
C Mack
RG Kuper
RT Harris (hopefully he hangs in there).

If we think MLB is a greater need, then Id like Spikes. If Moore or Mays are available, Id take one of them but Im bigger on Moore currently. If Beanie Wells is where we pick, Id take him. Beyond that, I can easily like with Alex Mack. Since he can likely come in and contribute right away, it makes it less of a reach.

[lex]

about DE's typically they do indeed take a year or so to work themselves into the starting LINEUP..

and mostly that is because those drafted in round one are going to really lousy teams.. and have virtually no other decent talent around them..

While I will not state Thomas, Robertson, Doom, moss are skells they now have sufficient experience under their belt to perhaps have a top notch DT or DE come in and actually have a real productive year..

as for RB I can't comprehend that mikey would waste #1 on one unless he has zero expectations on the existing ones.. His comments on torain, what we are seeing out of Hillis, perhaps Pope and then of course alot of tater fans gushing.. unless all of these crash and burn over the next 5 games we are overloaded with RB's

Unless Lichtensteiger has blown it he is our next C.

blowing an number 1 on center is rarely IF ever done since mickey has been the HC the average "first" center taken was number 61 late in the second.. in most years it was round 3 or later.. only 4 times since 1995 has a center been taken in round one..
1999-17 woody starter day one except for injuries but on 3 different teams 6'3" 335
2003-21 faine has bounced to 3 different teams CLE, NOL now TPA 6'3" 291
2005-26 Spencer did not start till 3 games into the 2nd year.. 6'3" 312
2006-29 mangold 3 year starter 6'4" 300
average position taken #23

IMHO taking a center in #1 is beyond stupid unless ALL DT, DE, MLB or S prospects are second rounders.

About the only two positions that lend themselves to almost instant starter status in S and MLB but they have to be top notch..

We have to let Moss, Crowder, Doom, and Thomas play out.

I already know its rare to draft a C in Rd 1. But you often rarely see a C that is slotted to go in Rd 1. Like I said previously, Moore and Wells are gone and if Spikes is either gone or we are content with Larsen, Id rather take Mack than reach for a player. Id rather take Mack than Rolle or Beckwith. Whats dumb is to take a player in Rd 1 when you can get a comparable player in Rd 2.

[Lonestar]

We have to let Moss, Crowder, Doom, and Thomas play out.

I already know its rare to draft a C in Rd 1. But you often rarely see a C that is slotted to go in Rd 1. Like I said previously, Moore and Wells are gone and if Spikes is either gone or we are content with Larsen, Id rather take Mack than reach for a player. Id rather take Mack than Rolle or Beckwith. Whats dumb is to take a player in Rd 1 when you can get a comparable player in Rd 2.

perhaps but I see center as being WAY down the list of actually needs..

I fail to believe that there would not be a better player on the board that would fill a position of need..

Conversely we have only twice before drafted an OLINE guy in the first.. foster and Clady.. We all know how that has worked out..

While I have LOOOONG been an advocate of beefing up the OLINE and having quality there especially at the OT position.. it is a rare choice that goes to either Center or OG on day one.. again a OL position of strength as we speak..

I see NO reason to waste a number one on center when as you say you can get a comparable one in rounds 3-7.

I appreciate your ideas here but lets fix the DL first as you have stated numerous times in other threads you build from the front to back.. and that is the issue with this TEAM Defense..

[lex]

perhaps but I see center as being WAY down the list of actually needs..

I fail to believe that there would not be a better player on the board that would fill a position of need..

Conversely we have only twice before drafted an OLINE guy in the first.. foster and Clady.. We all know how that has worked out..

While I have LOOOONG been an advocate of beefing up the OLINE and having quality there especially at the OT position.. it is a rare choice that goes to either Center or OG on day one.. again a OL position of strength as we speak..

I see NO reason to waste a number one on center when as you say you can get a comparable one in rounds 3-7.

I appreciate your ideas here but lets fix the DL first as you have stated numerous times in other threads you build from the front to back.. and that is the issue with this TEAM Defense..

Reading is fundamental. I spoke of how you dont often see Centers taken in the 1st...you actually brought this up. I pointed out that you dont often see centers taken in the 1st, which should tell you something about this guy and it actually also spits in the face of your point of there being a comparable player.

I like Luigs also, I wouldnt mind him in the 2nd or third. I like both more than I liked L'steiger.

But addressing the point you tried to make about there being a comparable player in the 2nd, thats more evident in Rolle/Chung.

[Lonestar]

Reading is fundamental. I spoke of how you dont often see Centers taken in the 1st...you actually brought this up. I pointed out that you dont often see centers taken in the 1st, which should tell you something about this guy and it actually also spits in the face of your point of there being a comparable player.

I like Luigs also, I wouldnt mind him in the 2nd or third. I like both more than I liked L'steiger.

But addressing the point you tried to make about there being a comparable player in the 2nd, thats more evident in Rolle/Chung.

Yes indeed reading is fundamental and getting the last word is not always necessary.. sometimes LESS is more..

BTW since not everyone gives a damn about next years and the year afters POTENTIAL players and do not follow college ball just to check out the players.. how about a quick bio on them.. so those of us that are ignorant of them will have clue on what your talking about..

[slim]

I think we should draft a RB in every round

[Requiem / The Dagda]

so those of us that are ignorant of them will have clue on what your talking about..

There's a tool called Google that's incredibly awesome and easy to use.

I've even done the search for you. Just click this link and get educated. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Alex+Mack%2C+Center+-+California&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=)

You're right, guards and centers usually do not go high or on the first day. When they do, it means they're a special player. Alex Mack is a special player, and will go extremely high in this coming draft. (See Davin Joseph, Tampa Bay or Nick Mangold, NYJ) People want the next Kreutz, Nalin, Birk -- and with Mack they'll have that opportunity.

[Lonestar]

There's a tool called Google that's incredibly awesome and easy to use.

I've even done the search for you. Just click this link and get educated. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Alex+Mack%2C+Center+-+California&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=)

You're right, guards and centers usually do not go high or on the first day. When they do, it means they're a special player. Alex Mack is a special player, and will go extremely high in this coming draft. (See Davin Joseph, Tampa Bay or Nick Mangold, NYJ) People want the next Kreutz, Nalin, Birk -- and with Mack they'll have that opportunity.

been there and done that. google is my middle name..:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Since most of us just do not have the time to waste looking up obscure kiddies most of whom will not get drafted or if they do are going to be TC fodder..

was just asking for a little courtesy form those that have, already done so..

guess it was to much to ask.. civility look it up..

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Since most of us just do not have the time to waste looking up obscure kiddies most of whom will not get drafted or if they do are going to be TC fodder.

Alex Mack is going to get drafted; and I don't focus on those sorts of players. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across with this comment.


was just asking for a little courtesy form those that have, already done so.

No, you really weren't.


guess it was to much to ask.. civility look it up..

Uh-huh. I provided you with a link that gave numerous reports on Mack. The ball is in your court. All it would have taken was a click or two and the ability to read.

Have a blast.

[lex]

been there and done that. google is my middle name..:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Since most of us just do not have the time to waste looking up obscure kiddies most of whom will not get drafted or if they do are going to be TC fodder..

was just asking for a little courtesy form those that have, already done so..

guess it was to much to ask.. civility look it up..

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/memberlist.php?order=DESC&sort=posts&pp=30

Check out who is #4

[Lonestar]

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/memberlist.php?order=DESC&sort=posts&pp=30

Check out who is #4

do you not understand that my time is used for looking at inane posts and deciding which ones need to go or stay..

Yes I know how many posts I've had but about 5000 of those have been in PM disciplining folks or talking about issues well behind the members screens..

So please do not tell me or any other mod about how many posts we have on this forum..

please understand I'm not doing this to stroke MY EGO like a few are...

I do not post to here myself speak like some do..

my post count is not #4 because of that.. I have a reason to have that many posts..

some do not, get the hint..

[broncohead]

Regardless of how good this center is our O-line will still be pretty good without him. Getting a DE or DT will only make our D-line better. Even if it takes 2-3 years for them to mature. If we grab some one in the FA at DE or DT then we should look at another position. S, LB, and RB after D-line in that order.

[G_Money]

I'd probably take Max Unger from Oregon over Mack. Reminds me of a couple of years ago with Satele and Khalil. I liked Satele A LOT. I think centers need to be a bit nasty. Satele isn't the biggest guy, so he needs to be mean.

He's done really well for the Dolphins thus far that I've seen. Khalil has similarly been good for Carolina. I thought both could be first round guys and that Khalil definitely would be, but centers just don't get a lot of play in the draft. They were both 2nd rounders IIRC.

If Unger or Mack is there in the second, I'm game. If Lichtensteiger is gonna play guard for us when Hamilton's gone, then we'll need a center. But I wouldn't spend a first round pick on one if I didn't have to and we don't have to just yet.

I would like to get a center in soon, though. I think Lichtensteiger could be the guy, but if the Broncos don't think so then I don't want to wait until Wiegmann's knees fall off completely before getting one. Our system takes some getting used to and we need a good center to open up the middle for our run game again.

~G

[lex]

do you not understand that my time is used for looking at inane posts and deciding which ones need to go or stay..

Yes I know how many posts I've had but about 5000 of those have been in PM disciplining folks or talking about issues well behind the members screens..

So please do not tell me or any other mod about how many posts we have on this forum..

please understand I'm not doing this to stroke MY EGO like a few are...

I do not post to here myself speak like some do..

my post count is not #4 because of that.. I have a reason to have that many posts..

some do not, get the hint..


Not only do I think youre wrong in what you say here, but I think you hide behind mod powers when arguments are getting away from you. Youre not as bad as some in this regard...some are very blatant about this...but you defintely do it. But leading up to that there are usually several instances of your own repetition...which kind of kills any claim you might make about not wanting to hear ("here") yourself speak.

SPLAT!

[lex]

Regardless of how good this center is our O-line will still be pretty good without him. Getting a DE or DT will only make our D-line better. Even if it takes 2-3 years for them to mature. If we grab some one in the FA at DE or DT then we should look at another position. S, LB, and RB after D-line in that order.

How many rushing yards did we have in the Miami game?

[broncohead]

How many rushing yards did we have in the Miami game?

One that isn't all on the center and two we don't have a legitament RB on the roster. What is our defense ranked?

[broncohead]

Is Aaron Curry a SAM or WILL LB?

[lex]

One that isn't all on the center and two we don't have a legitament RB on the roster. What is our defense ranked?

Our defense is really poor. Unfortunately its hard to really tell how bad the personnel is though with Slowik as the DC. As Ive indicated a number of times, Moore and Spikes wouldnt be bad picks. But if theyre gone or if Larsen is seen as the future Mike, then we can look at positions where were not reaching. Mack presents an option in that regard. There are good safeties who are slotted to go later that make Rolle a reach.

I can understand your opposition though just on the surface but Im looking at value in relation to what could be had later and also what can enhance the team.

[broncohead]

Our defense is really poor. Unfortunately its hard to really tell how bad the personnel is though with Slowik as the DC. As Ive indicated a number of times, Moore and Spikes wouldnt be bad picks. But if theyre gone or if Larsen is seen as the future Mike, then we can look at positions where were not reaching. Mack presents an option in that regard. There are good safeties who are slotted to go later that make Rolle a reach.

I can understand your opposition though just on the surface but Im looking at value in relation to what could be had later and also what can enhance the team.

We have other needs other than safety. I'd grab D-line, S, LB, and RB in that order as far as need.

[G_Money]

Aaron Curry is a Sam. Strong-sider all the way.

~G

[broncohead]

Aaron Curry is a Sam. Strong-sider all the way.

~G

Thats what I thought but honestly wan't sure. Heard some good things about him and wouldn't mind getting a SAM anyway. I think thats a bigger need then MIKE

[lex]

We have other needs other than safety. I'd grab D-line, S, LB, and RB in that order as far as need.

Time will tell on the other needs. Our DC is pretty awful and is the kind thats always going to get less than the sum of its parts out of the defense.

[G_Money]

Our defense is really poor. Unfortunately its hard to really tell how bad the personnel is though with Slowik as the DC. As Ive indicated a number of times, Moore and Spikes wouldnt be bad picks. But if theyre gone or if Larsen is seen as the future Mike, then we can look at positions where were not reaching. Mack presents an option in that regard. There are good safeties who are slotted to go later that make Rolle a reach.

I can understand your opposition though just on the surface but Im looking at value in relation to what could be had later and also what can enhance the team.

Like I said, I like Mack, and I like Unger even better, but our current line is:

Tackles: 1st rounder and 3rd rounder, both playing really well.
Guards: 6th rounder and 4th rounder
Center: Undrafted, and before him we had a 7th rounder, and another 7th rounder who will be in the Ring Of Fame.

In waiting is a Guard/Center who was a 4th rounder.

There are great 1st round centers, and 2nd rounders, and 3rd rounders... center distribution is all over the map. It's the rare OT that's a 7th rounder or undrafted. Centers? Not as uncommon. They not less important, it's just less about combine measurables.

Though again, the two best centers from a coupla years ago are both doing well for their teams, so if you DO get a good center with an early pick, they're usually keepers.

But in the same way you can get a decent safety with a later pick, you can get a decent center that way too. In fact, the quality of safety you get later will probably be worse than the quality of center.

I'd love a great center, or a great safety. If we got either in the first round, it's good news. I'm just more desperate for defensive help, I guess, since we can "get by" on offense more easily than we can on defense.

~G

[lex]

Like I said, I like Mack, and I like Unger even better, but our current line is:

Tackles: 1st rounder and 3rd rounder, both playing really well.
Guards: 6th rounder and 4th rounder
Center: Undrafted, and before him we had a 7th rounder, and another 7th rounder who will be in the Ring Of Fame.

In waiting is a Guard/Center who was a 4th rounder.

There are great 1st round centers, and 2nd rounders, and 3rd rounders... center distribution is all over the map. It's the rare OT that's a 7th rounder or undrafted. Centers? Not as uncommon. They not less important, it's just less about combine measurables.

Though again, the two best centers from a coupla years ago are both doing well for their teams, so if you DO get a good center with an early pick, they're usually keepers.

But in the same way you can get a decent safety with a later pick, you can get a decent center that way too. In fact, the quality of safety you get later will probably be worse than the quality of center.

I'd love a great center, or a great safety. If we got either in the first round, it's good news. I'm just more desperate for defensive help, I guess, since we can "get by" on offense more easily than we can on defense.

~G

I hear what youre saying. I also have said I like Luigs. But Im also not averse to drafting a Center in Rd 1, just because he is a center. Im considering value as much as anything and rather than reach for a S in the bottom of the 2nd, Id rather look at positions of value...and thats where an interior lineman avails itself as a value pick.

I hear what youre saying about defense but I have a problem with overdrafting defense because of Slowik. Like I previously said, I feel that whoever we have on defense is going to be wasted with the net result being a performance thats less than the sum of its parts. I definitely am on board with S though. Beyond that its less defined to me where defense is concerned.

[Lonestar]

The real facts are you need to draft TOP notch OLT in the first, you do not need to draft Centers, or OG in the first to run in the ZBS.. those are facts of life.. mikey has had but TWO OLINE (both OLTs) guys in the first and is batting 50%..

Unless there are NO other positions of NEED when it rolls around for our pick there would BE NO way I'd take one.. I'd rather trade back a few slots and maybe pick up another 2nd or HIGH 3rd ..

Safety is supposedly deep this year, well into the 2nd round..

But wasting a moderate #1 on center when they can be had through rounds 4 without much sweat seems out of character for mikey..

Who nows perhaps BArret will be that magic bullet we need at Safety and Larsen at MLB.. so priorities can change 6 times between now and teh EOS..

[lex]

The real facts are you need to draft TOP notch OLT in the first, you do not need to draft Centers, or OG in the first to run in the ZBS.. those are facts of life.. mikey has had but TWO OLINE (both OLTs) guys in the first and is batting 50%..

Unless there are NO other positions of NEED when it rolls around for our pick there would BE NO way I'd take one.. I'd rather trade back a few slots and maybe pick up another 2nd or HIGH 3rd ..

Safety is supposedly deep this year, well into the 2nd round..

But wasting a moderate #1 on center when they can be had through rounds 4 without much sweat seems out of character for mikey..

Who nows perhaps BArret will be that magic bullet we need at Safety and Larsen at MLB.. so priorities can change 6 times between now and teh EOS..


Good grief, dude! Shanahan, allegedly, also doesnt like trading down for lesser value.

[G_Money]

Myron Rolle just won the Rhodes Scholarship. So I'd say that probably takes him out of the draft. If he hadn't won it, I could have seen him strapping on NFL pads and run down that path before going back to college to finish his doctorate.

Now? I doubt it. The scholarship is only good for right now. I think he wants to be a neurosurgeon, too, and you need your hands to work right for that.

I'm glad for him - it's a HUGE deal. But that takes a first-day safety off the board for us.

Damn you for being such a quality individual, Myron. *shakes fist*

~G

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Yeah, he'd be a fool not to go into medical anthropology at Oxford, which arguably is the best school for that on the planet.

[broncohead]

A strong side LB wouldn't be a bad pick IMO. Hopefully Larsen is a good enough MLB that we can wait on upgrading that position for at least another year. Aaron Curry will most likely be gone when we pick so who else would be a solid SAM LB in the 1st? Brian Cushing or Clint Sintim?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Sintim rules. He has like 11 sacks this year and does a good job in pass coverage as well. I think with our history of taking linebackers early, and with their ability to produce -- that it wouldn't be a bad option.

I hate the Boss signing even more now. . . all things considered.

[lex]

A strong side LB wouldn't be a bad pick IMO. Hopefully Larsen is a good enough MLB that we can wait on upgrading that position for at least another year. Aaron Curry will most likely be gone when we pick so who else would be a solid SAM LB in the 1st? Brian Cushing or Clint Sintim?
Definitely Sintim. Appleby, his teammate, isnt even a bad option.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Back to 15...

Apparently we have the 2nd easiest schedule of all the 6-5 teams.

Pick: 1 Detroit Lions .000 .557
Pick: 2 Kansas City Chiefs .091 .531
Pick: 3 Cincinnati Bengals .136 .577
Pick: 4 Seattle Seahawks .182 .531
Pick: 5 St. Louis Rams .182 .531
Pick: 6 San Francisco 49ers .273 .480
Pick: 7 Oakland Raiders .273 .506
Pick: 8 Houston Texans .364 .503
Pick: 9 San Diego Chargers .364 .517
Pick: 10 Jacksonville Jaguars .364 .520
Pick: 11 Cleveland Browns .364 .565
Pick: 12 Green Bay Packers .455 .494
Pick: 13 Philadelphia Eagles .500 .543
Pick: 14 Buffalo Bills .545 .443
Pick: 15 Denver Broncos .545 .455
Pick: 16 Miami Dolphins .545 .460
Pick: 17 Chicago Bears .545 .474
Pick: 18 New Orleans Saints .545 .494
Pick: 19 Minnesota Vikings .545 .528
Pick: 20 Atlanta Falcons .636 .469
Pick: 21 New England Patriots .636 .472
Pick: 22 Arizona Cardinals .636 .480
Pick: 23 Indianapolis Colts .636 .480
Pick: 24 Washington Redskins .636 .486
Pick: 25 Baltimore Ravens .636 .514
Pick: 26 Dallas Cowboys .636 .526 [Traded to Detroit]
Pick: 27 New York Jets .727 .440
Pick: 28 Tampa Bay Buccaneers .727 .466
Pick: 29 Carolina Panthers .727 .511 [Traded to Philadelphia]
Pick: 30 Pittsburgh Steelers .727 .514
Pick: 31 Tennessee Titans .909 .435
Pick: 32 New York Giants .909 .497

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Well, if we make the playoffs -- we won't be at 15. . . but thanks for the update.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

we might be. It goes by overall record if ya don't make the SB. We have some Ls ahead of us...hopefully so do the Chargers.

[LRtagger]

Judging by where I think we will pick (high teens, low 20), these will be the guys who I believe will be available with our first pick and the order in which I would rank them by need+talent:

Sen-Derrick Marks (DT - Auburn)
Myron Rolle (S - FSU)
William Moore (S - Missou)
George Selvie (DE - USF)
Brandon Spikes (MLB - Florida)
Tyson Jackson (DE - LSU)


If we don't take Marks, Peria Jerry and Geno Atkins are viable DT's in the second round. If we decide to go DT in the second, IMO we need to draft S in the first. If we go DT/DE in the first, Chancellor and Chung may be available in the 2nd.

If Larsen continues to impress, I believe we would go safety and DT on day 1 although I would love to take Ringer in round 2. He would be the perfect compliment to Hillis.

Orakpo will be a top 5 pick, so no need to even discuss him coming to Denver.

[broncohead]

Would Tyson Jackson be a Trevor Price type DE? That wouldn't be bad IMO. He could play strong side while we look for that dominant everydown DE to play the other side.

[Lonestar]

Judging by where I think we will pick (high teens, low 20), these will be the guys who I believe will be available with our first pick and the order in which I would rank them by need+talent:

Sen-Derrick Marks (DT - Auburn)
Myron Rolle (S - FSU)
William Moore (S - Missou)
George Selvie (DE - USF)
Brandon Spikes (MLB - Florida)
Tyson Jackson (DE - LSU)


If we don't take Marks, Peria Jerry and Geno Atkins are viable DT's in the second round. If we decide to go DT in the second, IMO we need to draft S in the first. If we go DT/DE in the first, Chancellor and Chung may be available in the 2nd.

If Larsen continues to impress, I believe we would go safety and DT on day 1 although I would love to take Ringer in round 2. He would be the perfect compliment to Hillis.

Orakpo will be a top 5 pick, so no need to even discuss him coming to Denver.


I believe that rolle just got a Rhodes scholarship. if that is so you can take him off your wish list..

[DenBronx]

if one of the top 2 lb's are there at 15 then we need to take one.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm pro-MLB, but if Larsen can continue to handle his business, I think it would afford us the luxury of focusing on Safety, DL and/or RB in rounds 1 and 2.

[LRtagger]

I believe that rolle just got a Rhodes scholarship. if that is so you can take him off your wish list..

Yea I think you are right. They were interviewing him on PTI. He is incredibly intelligent.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Yea I think you are right. They were interviewing him on PTI. He is incredibly intelligent.

It could just seem that way cuz he was talking to Kornhiser.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Rolle still might declare. In the interview he stated that he wasn't sure, but was leaning towards the Rhodes. He'd actually like to do both. I'm not sure how feasible that is, but it's maybe possible?

[broncohead]

Rolle still might declare. In the interview he stated that he wasn't sure, but was leaning towards the Rhodes. He'd actually like to do both. I'm not sure how feasible that is, but it's maybe possible?

If thats the case then as an NFL football player he won't be able to live up to potential. I'd rather have a guy that will only have football to worry about.

[CoachChaz]

Rolle will be a neurosurgeon and will be at Oxford for awhile.

[Poet]

The Bengals have a tendency to take offensive lineman very earlier, and sometimes very often.

Stacy Andrews will not be a Bengal next year. Thank god, thank god, thank god. He leaves a void at RT. Levi Jones may be cut, or potentially traded, thank god, thank god, thank god. His play is awful, he is basically beat to all crap, LT is another option.

Cincinnati will probably stick with Benson for now. Cincinnati has only recently taken one RB in the first round. Ki-Jana Carter......injuries....not...our....fault.

If the Bengals were intelligent at all they would be staring hard at a defensive end. The Bengals should franchise Housh, keep CJ, work on smoothing out the offensive line a bit, keep Benson, and have a viable playoff caliber team again.

In the "golden" days, Rudi Johnson's hack self could put up 1400 yards. Benson has more speed and power then he does. The passing game of Cincinnati usually sets up the run. Strange, but true for us.

I also doubt that Cincinnati would take Wells at all. We rarely take the Ohio State kids. I think the last one we had on our roster was Craig Krenzel to be honest.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Now 17th...teams w/ our record pick between 17 and 22. Denver, Miami, New England, Arizona, Washington, Minnesota.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Teams are arranged in groups by winning percentage, in ascending order.

Within groups of identical winning percentage, teams are arranged by strength of schedule a.k.a., gross opponents' winning percentage (which is to say, the sum winning percentage for all 16 opponents, not the 13 unique opponents).

In the event of a two-way tie in strength of schedule, there are several tie breakers but the most common is typically a coin flip.

In the event that a winning percentage group has a mix of playoff and non-playoff teams, teams will be segregated on the basis of playoff achievement or not. Within the playoff segregations, teams will be ranked by strength of schedule.

Of course, the final rule is that the last two picks in a round are reserved for the two conference champion teams.

[Lonestar]

Teams are arranged in groups by winning percentage, in ascending order.

Within groups of identical winning percentage, teams are arranged by strength of schedule a.k.a., gross opponents' winning percentage (which is to say, the sum winning percentage for all 16 opponents, not the 13 unique opponents).

In the event of a two-way tie in strength of schedule, there are several tie breakers but the most common is typically a coin flip.

In the event that a winning percentage group has a mix of playoff and non-playoff teams, teams will be segregated on the basis of playoff achievement or not. Within the playoff segregations, teams will be ranked by strength of schedule.

Of course, the final rule is that the last two picks in a round are reserved for the two conference champion teams.


except on Tuesday if the GM is wearing brown socks..

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Just read on the Mane that we will receive Dallas' 2009 5th rounder for Holland. That gives us three.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

very nice

Maybe we can package 2 or all 3 of em to move up into late 3rd or early 4th...

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I'd just keep those picks. Denver has done a great job in the middle rounds. I'm absolutely for trading up if there's a player of value we need during the draft, but moving up with mid-round picks before the fact is an absolute draft-no-no IMHO.

One has to wonder how many more young guys we'll draft or how many picks we'll keep this year considering we have 11 rookies on our roster row, 12 with Powell.

[TXBRONC]

I'd just keep those picks. Denver has done a great job in the middle rounds. I'm absolutely for trading up if there's a player of value we need during the draft, but moving up with mid-round picks before the fact is an absolute draft-no-no IMHO.

One has to wonder how many more young guys we'll draft or how many picks we'll keep this year considering we have 11 rookies on our roster row, 12 with Powell.

SAS didn't specify making that move before the draft. He may have meant that but that's not what his last post stated.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I was just giving my thoughts. Thanks. *barf*

[TXBRONC]

I was just giving my thoughts. Thanks. *barf*

Really?

[G_Money]

I'd just keep those picks. Denver has done a great job in the middle rounds. I'm absolutely for trading up if there's a player of value we need during the draft, but moving up with mid-round picks before the fact is an absolute draft-no-no IMHO.

One has to wonder how many more young guys we'll draft or how many picks we'll keep this year considering we have 11 rookies on our roster row, 12 with Powell.

Yeah, I keep every pick I can. If we need to make a move, feel free, but don't do what we did a couple of years ago and trade away 2 picks for a few slots, then trade 3 more to get back to just behind the spot we traded away the first time. :tsk:

I'm not sure how many more young players we can stuff on the roster either, but seriously, if they all keep being better players than the vets, how do you legitimately keep them off?:confused:

Experience is nice, but Manuel's "experience" is giving me a meltdown. In the modern NFL, with 30% roster turnover every year, just adding crappy vets and giving away picks doesn't help. You'd think they'd be able to find room for quality kids, if they can keep adding em.

If we think they're not gonna pay Scheff and Doom next year, then some key spots will be opening up soon anyway.

I used to enjoy the draft for where my favorite players went, but I was used to them not coming here. Good players didn't come here with any regularity in the draft.

But with 2 of the last 3 years being absolute bonanzas of talent, I'm starting to really look forward to what we could do with all those picks.

Off the top of my head I'd say we need at least one safety, one corner, one LB, 3ish DL, a RB, a WR (D-Jack CANNOT play the 2 if Marshall or Royal go down and Stokley can't play forever), another interior OL (to understudy for Hamilton or Wiegmann, whichever one Lichtensteiger doesn't replace), and a TE to replace one of our injury-prone pass-catching ones.

That's 10 guys. We have what, 9 picks? And that doesn't count the guys we lose to FA or dump in the off-season.

We should be able to find room for the excess stockpile of goodies the Goodmans want to bring us this year. :salute:

~G

[Lonestar]

Yeah, I keep every pick I can. If we need to make a move, feel free, but don't do what we did a couple of years ago and trade away 2 picks for a few slots, then trade 3 more to get back to just behind the spot we traded away the first time. :tsk:

I'm not sure how many more young players we can stuff on the roster either, but seriously, if they all keep being better players than the vets, how do you legitimately keep them off?:confused:

Experience is nice, but Manuel's "experience" is giving me a meltdown. In the modern NFL, with 30% roster turnover every year, just adding crappy vets and giving away picks doesn't help. You'd think they'd be able to find room for quality kids, if they can keep adding em.

If we think they're not gonna pay Scheff and Doom next year, then some key spots will be opening up soon anyway.

I used to enjoy the draft for where my favorite players went, but I was used to them not coming here. Good players didn't come here with any regularity in the draft.

But with 2 of the last 3 years being absolute bonanzas of talent, I'm starting to really look forward to what we could do with all those picks.

Off the top of my head I'd say we need at least one safety, one corner, one LB, 3ish DL, a RB, a WR (D-Jack CANNOT play the 2 if Marshall or Royal go down and Stokley can't play forever), another interior OL (to understudy for Hamilton or Wiegmann, whichever one Lichtensteiger doesn't replace), and a TE to replace one of our injury-prone pass-catching ones.

That's 10 guys. We have what, 9 picks? And that doesn't count the guys we lose to FA or dump in the off-season.

We should be able to find room for the excess stockpile of goodies the Goodmans want to bring us this year. :salute:

~G

Well I like your thoughts overall , my only concern is even if we get 4-5 quality choices each year if they never see the field unless injuries necessitate them to we never know for sure what we have.. They languish behind veteran hacks and play ST for their stay in DEN..

It looks like Goodman is bringing the talent to the team but who here really thinks Larsen, Hillis would have ever seen action had the some of morons in front of them did not get hurt.. to a lesser extent Woodyard, Bell, Barrett and Williams..

Woodyard in particular would have never seen any action behind DJ..

Looking back in hind site I have to wonder about the coaches that are supposed to be molding these folks. Maybe that is a huge part of the issues not just schemes and talent.. If one does/can not evaluate the talent, or for that matter have the balls to fess up and say you made a mistake and are starting the wrong guy.. Hmmmmm

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Wow G, I never thought of it like that -- but damn. Good points.

[TXBRONC]

Well I like your thoughts overall , my only concern is even if we get 4-5 quality choices each year if they never see the field unless injuries necessitate them to we never know for sure what we have.. They languish behind veteran hacks and play ST for their stay in DEN..

It looks like Goodman is bringing the talent to the team but who here really thinks Larsen, Hillis would have ever seen action had the some of morons in front of them did not get hurt.. to a lesser extent Woodyard, Bell, Barrett and Williams..

Woodyard in particular would have never seen any action behind DJ..

Looking back in hind site I have to wonder about the coaches that are supposed to be molding these folks. Maybe that is a huge part of the issues not just schemes and talent.. If one does/can not evaluate the talent, or for that matter have the balls to fess up and say you made a mistake and are starting the wrong guy.. Hmmmmm

Maybe they weren't ready to start at the beginning of the year JR. It's not always a matter of pointing fingers like someone did something wrong.

[Lonestar]

Maybe they weren't ready to start at the beginning of the year JR. It's not always a matter of pointing fingers like someone did something wrong.

Please do not say that either of the two veteran safeties were ready to play this year or for that matter Webster or perhaps even Boss.

Had the rookies played they in most folks opinion would not have been any worse than the veterans mentioned.. and frankly we would have been in a lot better shape today with the kiddies having 4-7 games more experience than they have now..

As it stands right now we are going back to a failed MLB in particular when in everyones mind except perhaps slowick and mikey, Larsen is on the same level or better than Webster..

NOW we still most likely not know what we have in most of these rookies and what we have to do in the draft next year or for that matter FA..

Had we played these kids earlier perhaps the picture today would be clearer..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

The reason I brought up trading up is because I believe we have a LOT of draft picks this year after making all of the moves w/ Holland, Foxxy, etc. No way we have enough roster spots to cover em all. To a certain extant, I agree w/ the more bodies brought in, the better chance at a diamond in the rough, but I also think that all these picks give us the ability to maneuver ourselves toward the "more talented" portion of the draft.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Now 18th...teams w/ our record pick between 18 and 25. Denver, NY Jets, Miami, New England, Arizona, Atlanta, Dallas, Minnesota.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Denver, NY Jets, Miami, New England, Arizona, Atlanta, Dallas, Minnesota

Of the teams we were grouped with, only us and Arizona lost. Of the teams that were below us...Bears, Redskins, Saints and Eagles...Chicago won, 2 lost and the Eagles play tonight. If Eagles win, which they should, they would have a better record than us due to the tie. So if the Saints group's last pick will end at 15 and our group will pick between 16 and 18...if Philly wins. We have the same record as Chicago and Arizona, but I don't know how the SOS plays out now that we played Carolina and the other 2 playes lesser opponents. Anyways, looks like 16-18 range this week.

[Lonestar]

Denver, NY Jets, Miami, New England, Arizona, Atlanta, Dallas, Minnesota

Of the teams we were grouped with, only us and Arizona lost. Of the teams that were below us...Bears, Redskins, Saints and Eagles...Chicago won, 2 lost and the Eagles play tonight. If Eagles win, which they should, they would have a better record than us due to the tie. So if the Saints group's last pick will end at 15 and our group will pick between 16 and 18...if Philly wins. We have the same record as Chicago and Arizona, but I don't know how the SOS plays out now that we played Carolina and the other 2 playes lesser opponents. Anyways, looks like 16-18 range this week.

kudos again..

At this stage I'd rather play all the rookies and see what we have before next year if we win great. If we do not OK we just gets us better draft choices top to bottom 1-7..

I;m not talking about tanking and not giving it our all but I'd rather know for sure what spot we have to draft for.. and not be wondering over the off season..

BTW I'd rather not go to the playoffs to get our asses kicked just to "get the experience for the new kids" unless it is the BIG show SB. Playoffs are not that much different than normal season games or they should not be....

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Pick: 16 Denver Broncos .571 .446
Pick: 17 Arizona Cardinals .571 .484
Pick: 18 Chicago Bears .571 .484


Now in our group, the playoff teams would pick ahead of the non-playoff teams, so we'de really be 17th if we get in. Chicago likely won't make it and Zona already clinched. We play a weak Bills team and Zona has NE whie Chicago gets GB.

[Lonestar]

Pick: 16 Denver Broncos .571 .446
Pick: 17 Arizona Cardinals .571 .484
Pick: 18 Chicago Bears .571 .484


Now in our group, the playoff teams would pick ahead of the non-playoff teams, so we'de really be 17th if we get in. Chicago likely won't make it and Zona already clinched. We play a weak Bills team and Zona has NE whie Chicago gets GB.


not so sure the the playoff ranking have anything to do with drafting except the super bowl teams draft last..

I could be wrong on this and perhaps there is a rule change but I do not recall that being a qualifier..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

If you have the same record as a few other teams, SOS is the tie breaker UNLESS 1 or more of those teams made the playoffs. When records are same, non playoff teams pick before playoff teams.

[Superchop 7]

Forget the AFC west title, we need players.

I'd rather have better draft position than a win next weekend.

[LRtagger]

Have fun cheering for the Chargers.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Calculations still not fully complete, but I believe that our SOS remained the lowest of our current group AND the group below us. Since we lost and NO and Wash won, we are now in that lower group. So I'm computing that the draft order will be as follows IF CHICAGO WINS...

11-Buffalo
12-Houston
13-San Diego
14-New Orleans
15-Washington
16-DENVER
17-Arizona

SOS would place us at #14, but if we make the playoffs, we'd move ahead of NO and Wash.

A rough estimate of our draft spot if we LOSE next week will be in the 11-14 range. If we WIN, it should remain about 15-17 range.

[sacmar]

I higher draft pick doesn't assure anything ask vince young, reggie bush, and jamarcus russell. Screw a pick and any offseason related buisness. A draft pick can get hurt like the guys we already have, lets worry about right now, i wonder how many charger fans who are still currently below us are saying forget a game let's get a draft pick. We didn't play all year for a freakin draft pick let's get to the playoffs and take our chances.

[UnderArmour]

Ask the Raiders about that. :coffee:

[MOtorboat]

:tsk:

[Northman]

Have fun cheering for the Chargers.

No shit. Get rid of the bandwagoners already. Heard this same crap last year from Lex.

[dogfish]

i'm thinkin' spikes and mays might be legitmate targets in that range. . . .

[Medford Bronco]

I would never hope we lose but do not feel confident based on yesterday.

I hope I am wrong and will admit it. but I do not feel good about this squander.

[BroncoWave]

I'd rather watch my team in the playoffs. Sure, we wouldn't stand much of a chance but no one thought the Giants did last year or the Steelers a couple of years ago when they won it all as a 6 seed. Just sayin. I don't believe for a second we'll do that but I'd rather them have a chance to than to just be sitting at home watching the playoffs on TV.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Also some interesting DE candidates if Barrett and Larsen are considered part of the D's future.

Michael Johnson seens to be falling down some draft boards...but so did Kiwanuka a couple of years ago. He is an athletic freak, but does it translate to the field?

Tyson Jackson intrigues me as a bigger DE, but only if we keep mixing in the 3-4 looks.
He won't be able to bully NFL OTs on his way to the QB like he does in college.

However, the DEs I really like are from Illinois. Will Davis is a round 2 or 3 prospect who I think would be a better fit for us. He is a bit bigger and can still get to the QB. Derek Walker is a different type of DE and can be had later, but I also like the way he plays. For my money, go back 7 and RB in rounds 1 and 2 and hope Davis is there for us in round 3.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Dude...you are an ass of a fan. Sunday's game will make like a 4 spot difference. The early/mid teens are the perfect spot for our needs of LB, DT, S, RB. Any DE worth a damn will be gone before 10 and we won't draft that high..

[G_Money]

Our positioning is fine either way.

We won the last game last year and "Screwed up our draft positioning" but that turned out okay.

There'll be a good player where we draft in the first, and the 2nd, and the 3rd, and the rest of the rounds. We just need to find them.

Thus far the Goodmans deserve a raise for their ability to find those gems.

Just enjoy the game either way. Mid-teens is a fine place to be.

~G

[tomjonesrocks]

I don't believe you. :coffee:

[WARHORSE]

Well, looks like we're in a no lose situation then, eh?


You get the playoffs if we win.


Extra draft slots.......that may be generated into more picks.......if we lose.


Whats to moan about????????


:drinking:

[Dean]

The whole purpose of playing the game is to win it. I refuse to hope we lose a chance to make the play-offs. We have a young team and getting them an extra games worth of experience and play-off experience would be of value next year.

If the team already had the play-off spot sewed I wouldn't mind resting players. That is no longer the case. IMO getting to the play-offs are an important step toward next year's season.

If the team loses, I will get past it but I won't hope that it happens for 2 to 4 picks higher in the draft.

[Medford Bronco]

Our positioning is fine either way.

We won the last game last year and "Screwed up our draft positioning" but that turned out okay.

There'll be a good player where we draft in the first, and the 2nd, and the 3rd, and the rest of the rounds. We just need to find them.

Thus far the Goodmans deserve a raise for their ability to find those gems.

Just enjoy the game either way. Mid-teens is a fine place to be.

~G

As long as SLOWbrain is gone, that is addtion by subtraction really.

and I really want a win, just for how far this would go confidence wise for
Cutler, Royal, Marshall and Sheff:cool:

[Bill Devaroe]

Draft position is huge.....I am glad we moved up to take Jarvis Moss.

I am all for going to the playoffs......however, it aint gonna happen.
The Chargers will murder us on Sunday. Sorry.....sad but true.

We had our chances, this division should have been an easy win. The problem is that our defense is one of the worst ones of all time. 6 yrds a play....Ray Rhodes D looked like 85 Bears compared to this tub of crap.

cut everyone except DJ and champ.

[Foochacho]

These threads are getting gayer and gayer. I wish the mods would lock it so we can't make any new ones until after the game sunday.

Every idiot has to make a new thread about how we should lose or don't deserve it. San Diego sure as hell don't deserve it. The only thing they deserve is to have Bob Slowick next year send all the retarded coaches to San Diego. The whole city is full of retards (look at their fan base half of them wear paper bags over their heads) it only makes sense that they have all the retarded coaches in the league.

[Foochacho]

These threads sound like threads that we would make fun of from the charger boards. Some of you need to jump on that bandwagon you will fit right in.

[Poet]

Our positioning is fine either way.

We won the last game last year and "Screwed up our draft positioning" but that turned out okay.

There'll be a good player where we draft in the first, and the 2nd, and the 3rd, and the rest of the rounds. We just need to find them.

Thus far the Goodmans deserve a raise for their ability to find those gems.

Just enjoy the game either way. Mid-teens is a fine place to be.

~G

The last pick is fine too. Mathias Kiwanuka was the 32rd pick a few years ago.

[Italianmobstr7]

Draft position is huge.....I am glad we moved up to take Jarvis Moss.

I am all for going to the playoffs......however, it aint gonna happen.
The Chargers will murder us on Sunday. Sorry.....sad but true.

We had our chances, this division should have been an easy win. The problem is that our defense is one of the worst ones of all time. 6 yrds a play....Ray Rhodes D looked like 85 Bears compared to this tub of crap.

cut everyone except DJ and champ.

Draft position isn't that big of a deal. I hope you're joking about us moving up to take Moss. So far Moss has been a bust. We wasted a 3rd rounder to move up and take him and he sucks. You can think what you want about Sunday, but you just never know until then. I'm not 100% confident that we'll win, but it's not out of the question. Our D is pathetic, but cutting 9 out of 11 starters isn't going to help anything either. We have talent in our DB's and even LB's w/ Woodyard, Winborn, Williams. But our Dline is trash. That's where we need help. I hope we address it either through the draft or FA.

[MOtorboat]

Draft position is huge.....I am glad we moved up to take Jarvis Moss.

What?

Wow.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

It is post like that which make me think Bill getting a computer from the local school district was a bad idea.

[Foochacho]

I'm pretty sure it was sarcasm. Joking about how we moved up a few spaces to pick up a loser. Draft position isn't that big unless you are jumping from 10+ spaces.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Draft position always matters.

[omac]

It is post like that which make me think Bill getting a computer from the local school district was a bad idea.

:D

He's right, though; this regime hasn't proven they know how to pick defensive players, so a lot of good moving up the draft will get us.

We need a Jim Bates II experiment, but this time, let's get a coach who's active in the NFL, and who has a somewhat basic scheme, as opposed to Bates' real wide DEs and Slowik's complicated defense. Maybe get a DL coach from a solid defensive team, and promote him to DC, then let him get involved in our draft for defense.

[Foochacho]

A couple spots in the draft is not better than playoffs and beating the chargers in their house.

*Damn I wish we had the #1 draft pick last year so we could of got a real left tackle instead of that hack Ryan Clady.*


*= indicates sarcasm (made it easier for all the retards out there)

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Yeah, I wouldn't call someone whose opinions on the NFL Draft are widely respected (and have even garnered me job offers) a moron. Just sayin'.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah, I wouldn't call someone whose opinions on the NFL Draft are widely respected (and have even garnered me job offers) a moron. Just sayin'.

Moron. :coffee:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Lol!

[Foochacho]

So you would rather take a couple spots in the draft. Even though we will have a ton of humiliation by losing the division to the chargers. Another year missing the playoffs. Missing out on all the fun we could have rubbing this win in Boltzownu's face.

If this is true you are a dumbass. If this is true you are not much of a fan either. I bet you play fantasy football and pick all the players playing against us.............Oh I hope LT gets another touchdown before the game is over but then I hope we get one back. <-------------- you are one of these fags aren't you?

I can't stand going to the bar to watch the game just to have some idiot root for the other team to get a bunch of stats but still want us to win.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Yes I would Foo. How much of a loser in real life are ya?

[Foochacho]

So I am a loser because I like to see our team win and rub it in the chargers face? How many times have you been able to call someone a loser in your life? Judging by your pic in your avy youv'e probally been on the recieving end of that word many times. It's alright though I quit picking on turds like you years ago.

[NameUsedBefore]

I'm the opposite. I'd gladly take the 32nd pick just to beat the Chargers.

[MOtorboat]

Winning is stupid.

War the Draft!

[CrazyHorse]

I'd much rather have Playoffs.
ANYTHING can happen in the playoffs.
I never want the Broncos to lose.

[MOtorboat]

There is only one Draft.

[roomemp]

Forget the AFC west title, we need players.

I'd rather have better draft position than a win next weekend.

NFL Madden has ruined you the way you think man :D

Seriously though.........A diehard Broncos fan would not even think that.

[Chidoze]

I'd rather have bragging rights than a better draft pick, but I'm positive that the team who wins the AFC West isnt something to brag about.....

[broncophan]

Forget the AFC west title, we need players.

I'd rather have better draft position than a win next weekend.

You may be on to something here..........maybe we should have lost all 16 games this year......and had a good shot at the #1 pick in the draft next year........and then do the same next year.........and the year after that.......and the year after that.......and the year after that....:confused:

[dogfish]

you play to win the game! you play to win the game!!



geez, even herm edwards knows that, and his IQ probably doesn't measure in triple digits. . .

the hell with a couple of slots of draft position-- last year we drafted two very talented players in the seventh stinkin' round. . . picking a few spots higher more than likely just means we have to pay 'em a mil or two more. . . .

[BroncoTech]

Of course it's every young athlete's dream to get that pass with 2 seconds left on the game clock and set up outside the 3 point line and fire off a shot as the buzzers sounds that bounces off the rim and propels them into a higher draft pick.

Man talk about a Cinderella story...

[Simple Jaded]

I'd rather win the SB and have the No1 pick.......Nah!.......The No2 pick.......

[WARHORSE]

So I am a loser because I like to see our team win and rub it in the chargers face? How many times have you been able to call someone a loser in your life? Judging by your pic in your avy youv'e probally been on the recieving end of that word many times. It's alright though I quit picking on turds like you years ago.


No. Youre a loser cause youre in here trying to dictate whos an idiot and whose a genius.

Go back to your Raider board.

[Nature Boy]

Worst thread ever!!!

[Requiem / The Dagda]

It's alright though I quit picking on turds like you years ago.

Most names go for a thousand. I have a feeling ten would be enough for most people I know for you.

[Foochacho]

No. Youre a loser cause youre in here trying to dictate whos an idiot and whose a genius.

Go back to your Raider board.

If you would rather have a couple spots higher than the draft instead of a division title and a playoff spot then you are definitely an idiot to me. I am sure the majority of fans would agree that the playoffs are better, so I am not the only one dictating who's an idiot. We haven't made the playoffs in a couple years why would anyone want to miss out on another one?

[Foochacho]

Most names go for a thousand. I have a feeling ten would be enough for most people I know for you.

I have no clue as too what you are talking about, can you explain to me. Is it wigga talk or something.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

So we don't get our asses handed to us and embarrassed nationally yet again.

[Foochacho]

If we lose this sunday that will be the embarrassment not a playoff loss to a great team. The chargers crying makes me happy.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

High draft picks makes me happy. Deal with it Foomokok.

[Foochacho]

If we were jumping into the top ten I might come around but we are talking a couple spots towards the back of the first round. There is not much difference when you are in the early 20's. Who would you take in the first?

[MOtorboat]

If we were jumping into the top ten I might come around but we are talking a couple spots towards the back of the first round. There is not much difference when you are in the early 20's. Who would you take in the first?

Well, it will be in the teens, not the 20s...but yeah, I concur.

[Foochacho]

Well, it will be in the teens, not the 20s...but yeah, I concur.

Has anyone figured out where we draft at? I'm still unsure does making playoffs matter or is it record? Didn't we have a thread on this and there were a bunch of different articles contradicting each other? Anybody ever figure out what the latest rule for the draft positioning is?

[MOtorboat]

Has anyone figured out where we draft at? I'm still unsure does making playoffs matter or is it record? Didn't we have a thread on this and there were a bunch of different articles contradicting each other? Anybody ever figure out what the latest rule for the draft positioning is?

Right now we're 14-17 grouping, as we're tied with the Saints, Cardinals and Redskins.

According to the Strength of Schedule that fcspikeit posted earlier today.

14. Broncos
15. Redskins
16. Saints
17. Cardinals

[Requiem / The Dagda]

It's about pick value. It's about forcing someone to move up. It's all about VALUE. There are a bunch of players I'd take in the top fifteen.

[Foochacho]

If we go to the playoffs do you have no faith in beating indy? I think we could hang with them and would love a chance for some revenge.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Indianapolis would beat us by at least 30.

[MOtorboat]

If we go to the playoffs do you have no faith in beating indy? I think we could hang with them and would love a chance for some revenge.

Beating Indy wouldn't change our draft status, either, btw...

Not directed at you, just a general comment brought on by your comment.

[Foochacho]

I don't see why we couldn't contend with indy this year. Give these guys some playoff time and I'll be happy.

[Dean]

It's about pick value. It's about forcing someone to move up. It's all about VALUE. There are a bunch of players I'd take in the top fifteen.

No. . . no it's not. It's about watching a team attempt to win against an opponent (good versus evil). It's about watching your favorite players use every bit of their ability and cunning to overcome the obstacles (super human physical ability) in his path. It is about wishing you could still play the greatest game on Earth.

It is not about whether you pick thirteenth or eighteenth. Personally, if that is all the season means I wouldn't bother to watch. The draft is an integral part of winning but it is not all there is to the game. How sad if trying to make picks in the lottery (NFL draft) is the reason you are a fan. You are missing out.

I believe that you once told me you were thinking of becoming a football coach. :confused: Unless you have a love for the game don't waste some teams season.

[Bill Devaroe]

I don't see why we couldn't contend with indy this year. Give these guys some playoff time and I'll be happy.

1. Because they are on a roll, and we are not.
2. Because our defense is worse this year than the consecutive years Manning played Madden on our asses.
3. Because we have no running game.
4. Because Matt Prater is a head case.

Oh and Jarvis Moss makes George Foster look like a good draft pick in the first round.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

No. . . no it's not. It's about watching a team attempt to win against an opponent (good versus evil). It's about watching your favorite players use every bit of their ability and cunning to overcome the obstacles (super human physical ability) in his path. It is about wishing you could still play the greatest game on Earth.

Yawn. This team sucks. Us getting to the playoffs would mean nothing. We won't win the Super Bowl. I'd rather have the pick.


It is not about whether you pick thirteenth or eighteenth. Personally, if that is all the season means I wouldn't bother to watch. The draft is an integral part of winning but it is not all there is to the game. How sad if trying to make picks in the lottery (NFL draft) is the reason you are a fan. You are missing out.

Yawn 2. I watch the Broncos because they're my team and I love football. At this point, I'd rather see them get better draft position in hopes to land better talent than beat San Diego and get their asses whopped in the playoffs. Sorry. :smile:


I believe that you once told me you were thinking of becoming a football coach. :confused: Unless you have a love for the game done waste some teams season.

This was just a completely irrelevant and ridiculous comment. Lmao.

[Shazam!]

I'd rather watch Denver kick SD in the mother?!@#ing teeth.

Go :defense:

[Dortoh]

I love these kinds of threads. Since I dont want to start a new thread I'll put my increadible idea in this "um" thread.

Since we all agree we need to get more serious about our defense. Why not can Shannys ass and promote Slowik..........brilliant I say

[MOtorboat]

I love these kinds of threads. Since I dont want to start a new thread I'll put my increadible idea in this "um" thread.

Since we all agree we need to get more serious about our defense. Why not can Shannys ass and promote Slowik..........brilliant I say

You mean, see if he can incompetently run the whole team, instead of just the defense?

Brilliant.

I hear Matt Millen is available for the GM position, or maybe Carl Peterson, he has a longer track record of sucking.

Mike Solari is out there as offensive coordinator, too.

Dortoh = brilliant.

I'm on board.

[CoachChaz]

Maybe we can see if two negatives truly do make a positive


...oh wait...I forgot we already tried that with Manuel and McCree

[NightTrainLayne]

I can't believe that someone who took the time to register for an account at a Bronco's site would ever actually hope for a loss just to move up a few spots in a draft.

The meaning of the word "fan" is changing. .. I guess I'm getting old.

[MOtorboat]

I can't believe that someone who took the time to register for an account at a Bronco's site would ever actually hope for a loss just to move up a few spots in a draft.

The meaning of the word "fan" is changing. .. I guess I'm getting old.

Doesn't this happen every year...I always remember someone starting this thread...

[NightTrainLayne]

Doesn't this happen every year...I always remember someone starting this thread...

I know. I avoided it until it reached 4 pages. .. figured there must be some worthwhile arguments for it if it reached 4 pages. . .I was wrong.

[CoachChaz]

I think the idea is doing what is best for the team. yes, it's only speculation, but if Denver makes the playoffs, I dont think too many people can hold tightly to the thought that they'd beat Indy. So, maybe gaining a few draft spots will help get the player that will truly make a difference.

Just assumption on my part, but I think that is the thought process. Remember, we'll be fans beyond this year.

[NightTrainLayne]

I think the idea is doing what is best for the team. yes, it's only speculation, but if Denver makes the playoffs, I dont think too many people can hold tightly to the thought that they'd beat Indy. So, maybe gaining a few draft spots will help get the player that will truly make a difference.

Just assumption on my part, but I think that is the thought process. Remember, we'll be fans beyond this year.

It's called pride. Pride is worth more to me than draft picks.

I kinda get it, but I just don't think you do that. I can handle "looking at the bright side" if we lose, but I'm not going so far as to hope for it.

[Dortoh]

I think the idea is doing what is best for the team. yes, it's only speculation, but if Denver makes the playoffs, I dont think too many people can hold tightly to the thought that they'd beat Indy. So, maybe gaining a few draft spots will help get the player that will truly make a difference.

Just assumption on my part, but I think that is the thought process. Remember, we'll be fans beyond this year.

Give my young core of players some playoff experiance instead. That is worth much more then a few draft spots IMO

[CoachChaz]

Give my young core of players some playoff experiance instead. That is worth much more then a few draft spots IMO

You want their first taste of the playoffs to be a complete ass-whipping from the Colts? is it possible that makes them a little gun shy?

Again...I'm not condoning the thought one way or the other...just looking at the positives and negatives of both sides.

[Dortoh]

You want their first taste of the playoffs to be a complete ass-whipping from the Colts? is it possible that makes them a little gun shy?

Again...I'm not condoning the thought one way or the other...just looking at the positives and negatives of both sides.

If they become gun shy I dont want them on my team anyway. I'd like to think a professional athlete would take an ass whooping at home in the playoffs as a shot at his personal pride.

Not that it works that way in todays high dollar NFL but I'd like to think it did.

Not to mention that if we could somehow run the ball, at home vs Indy we just might make a game of it.......well it could happen :D

[Fan in Exile]

I think this whole idea that a team can get beat and never recover is crap. Some of you guys are taking this whole worry thing to extremes. It's time to sack up and cheer for your team, stop whining so much.

[Foochacho]

Shanny will probally just draft another jarvis moss anyway. I would like rd. 1) MLB, 2) safety, 3) best available de/dt or I would be happy with a rb.

It is a shame that we haven't got to see more of what spencer larsen could do. If we could skip picking up a LB and get a first round rb I would be happy. But there is too much lb talent to pass up in this draft and as of right now it is still a
hole in the D.

what rb's are up for free agency next year?

[CoachChaz]

If they become gun shy I dont want them on my team anyway. I'd like to think a professional athlete would take an ass whooping at home in the playoffs as a shot at his personal pride.

Not that it works that way in todays high dollar NFL but I'd like to think it did.

Not to mention that if we could somehow run the ball, at home vs Indy we just might make a game of it.......well it could happen :D

I guess gunshy was a poor choice of words. Let's just say...would you prefer their first playoff experience be positive or didastrous

[Foochacho]

david garrard just passed for 330 yards on the colts. They made a game of it besides a shitty fourth quarter. Cutler could easily do that with a little help from the run game we can make a game out of it too. This is a new year doesn't mean the colts will spank us like they did in the past.

[Fan in Exile]

I guess gunshy was a poor choice of words. Let's just say...would you prefer their first playoff experience be positive or didastrous

I want to win, but I can certainly handle a lose like the 1996 loss to the Jags that got the team fired up for the next year.

[Dortoh]

I guess gunshy was a poor choice of words. Let's just say...would you prefer their first playoff experience be positive or didastrous

No, I see your point I just think that any playoff experiance would be an overall plus for a young team. Obviously positive would help going forward but to just get a taste of what playoff football is all about would be more of a value to a young team then a few draft spots.

[CoachChaz]

david garrard just passed for 330 yards on the colts. They made a game of it besides a shitty fourth quarter. Cutler could easily do that with a little help from the run game we can make a game out of it too. This is a new year doesn't mean the colts will spank us like they did in the past.

Because Denver looked so good at home against Jacksonville, we should put ourselves up there with them when it comes to playing the Colts? That was a game because Jax has a pass defense much better than ours


I want to win, but I can certainly handle a lose like the 1996 loss to the Jags that got the team fired up for the next year.

I dont know if we'd be looking at a close game like the 96 loss and I definately know we dont have the same team.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

QB first round.

[dogfish]

You want their first taste of the playoffs to be a complete ass-whipping from the Colts? is it possible that makes them a little gun shy?





i wouldn't ever say i want them to get their ass kicked, but if that's how it has to be then that's how it has to be. . . considering that the colts barely beat cleveland and were tied with detroit into the fourth quarter, i guess i just don't see them as some unbeatable juggernaut and consider it a forgone conclusion that we have to lose to them by thirty points. . .

but, if we do, i do still think it's valuable experience. . . a lot of the core players for the G-men (including manning, diehl, snee, jacobs and tuck) got their first playoff experience back in '05 when carolina beat their asses 23-0-- at home, if i remember correctly. . . then they lost to philly in '06. . .

can anyone say conclusively that those loses either hurt or helped them? no, but you have to start somewhere, and despite a few exceptions most teams don't just come out of nowhere to win a championship. . . manning's colts lost to the pats for a few years before they broke through, and even our back-to-back super bowl team lost to jacksonville before winning it all. . . IMO, going out to san diego and winning a must-have game against a team that crushed us twice last year should help the kids build some confidence for next year, regardless of what happens in the playoffs. . .

[Foochacho]

It really all depends on slowick. We can hang with indy if he let's us play some damn football and quit this soft shit. Our d shows up every first quarter then slowick makes us soft again. I don't think we would beat indy but I do think we can make a game out of it.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Bob is a loser. He is gone. Time to move on. Bob sucks.

[Foochacho]

if slowick sticks around next year I really want shanny to get the boot too. Unless of course they prove us wrong, but that won't happen. If slowick is here nothing will improve.

[CoachChaz]

i wouldn't ever say i want them to get their ass kicked, but if that's how it has to be then that's how it has to be. . . considering that the colts barely beat cleveland and were tied with detroit into the fourth quarter, i guess i just don't see them as some unbeatable juggernaut and consider it a forgone conclusion that we have to lose to them by thirty points. . .

but, if we do, i do still think it's valuable experience. . . a lot of the core players for the G-men (including manning, diehl, snee, jacobs and tuck) got their first playoff experience back in '05 when carolina beat their asses 23-0-- at home, if i remember correctly. . . then they lost to philly in '06. . .

can anyone say conclusively that those loses either hurt or helped them? no, but you have to start somewhere, and despite a few exceptions most teams don't just come out of nowhere to win a championship. . . manning's colts lost to the pats for a few years before they broke through, and even our back-to-back super bowl team lost to jacksonville before winning it all. . . IMO, going out to san diego and winning a must-have game against a team that crushed us twice last year should help the kids build some confidence for next year, regardless of what happens in the playoffs. . .

Like i said...I'm just trying to look at it all from bothe perspectives.

[Fan in Exile]

Because Denver looked so good at home against Jacksonville, we should put ourselves up there with them when it comes to playing the Colts? That was a game because Jax has a pass defense much better than ours



I dont know if we'd be looking at a close game like the 96 loss and I definately know we dont have the same team.

Of course we don't have the same team, they'd all be really old by now. :confused:

But we can still respond in the same way which was my point.

[Foochacho]

I don't know how people aren't pumped for a showdown at mile high west. I couldn't live with myself if I was ever happy losing to san diego. If we lose, so be it. We get a better draft pick pick I can live with that i won't be pissed for to long. But if we win I will be partying my ass off. A win will bring me joy a loss will not, plain and simple.

[MOtorboat]

I wonder if it will be blacked out in San Diego County...

[Dortoh]

I wonder if it will be blacked out in San Diego County...

I'm hearing the bandwagon is filling back up at an impressive clip :laugh:

[BroncoWave]

I think this whole idea that a team can get beat and never recover is crap. Some of you guys are taking this whole worry thing to extremes. It's time to sack up and cheer for your team, stop whining so much.

Exactly. I mean, those '96 Broncos never recovered from that playoff stunner against the Jags in the WC round did they? I think it's a load of crap to say that a playoff beatdown would ruin the young players.

[Nick]

Draft Order


The order looks like this right now. For the first round.

1. Detroit (0-15)
2. *St. Louis (2-13)
3. *Kansas City (2-13)
4. Cincinnati (3-11-1)
5. Seattle (4-11)
6. Oakland (4-11)
7. Cleveland (4-11)
8. Green Bay (5-10)
9. Jacksonville (5-10)
10. San Francisco (6-9)
11. Buffalo (7-8)
12. Houston (7-8)
13. San Diego (7-8)
14. Washington (8-7)
15. New Orleans (8-7)
16. Denver (8-7)
17. Arizona (8-7)
18. Philadelphia (8-6-1)
19. New York Jets (9-6)
20. Chicago (9-6)
21. Tampa Bay (9-6)
22. Detroit (from Dallas) (9-6)
23. Minnesota (9-6)
24. New England (10-5)
25. Miami (10-5)
26. Atlanta (10-5)
27. Baltimore (10-5)
28. Philadelphia (from Carolina) (11-4)
29. Indianapolis (11-4)
30. Pittsburgh (11-4)
31. New York Giants (12-3)
32. Tennessee (13-2)

We have the tie breaker over any tied team. We would be at #14 right now but becuase we are currently division champs, They would pick in front of us and Arizona picks behind us because they are also division champs but with a harder SOS.

If the Pats and Chicago win and we lose we are at #13. If both lose we will be at #11. If one loses and one wins #12. If we make the playoffs we will pick #16 unless we go to superbowl.


Key Week 17 games:

New England at Buffalo

Chicago at Houston

Denver at San Diego



Draft positions are determined by record, the team with the worst record during the regular season picks first and so on. If two teams have the same record, the strength of schedule tie-breaker is used which is the combined winning percentage of all teams on each team's schedule for the current season. If teams are still tied after strength of schedule has been applied, the division or conference tie breakers are used. If teams are still tied after applying all tiebreakers or if two teams are tied that are in different conferences, a coin toss after the season will determnined which team gets priority.

NOTE:

If you are tied the non-playoff teams pick before playoff teams then goes to SOS, division or conference, then coin.

As we all know the winners of the Super Bowl are given the last selection, and the losers the second to last selection BUT Teams are sorted by regular season record, with worse records picking first, regardless of playoff status; teams that make the playoffs can't pick before teams that do not.For teams with the same record, teams that fail to make the playoffs always pick before teams that earned playoff berths. For teams that make the playoffs, ties are broken by the order in which teams lost in the playoffs.

Remaining ties are broken by strength of schedule. For draft order, a lower strength of schedule results in an earlier pick. If strength of schedule does not resolve a tie, division and/or conference tiebreakers may be used. If the tie still cannot be broken, a coin toss at the NFL Combine is used to determine draft order.

[Nick]

As much as I would love a higher draft position...

Playoff experience for any of our extremly young players > Higher draft selection.

This next game will be the biggest game ever for a lot of the player that are on our roster... I would like to see that keep going.

I will be upset if we lose to san diego But not losing to pittsburgh in championship game and jaguars in playoff kind of upset and not depressed like the colts beating... I would be fine with the loss but would much rather have the win.

[MOtorboat]

I'm hearing the bandwagon is filling back up at an impressive clip :laugh:

Wouldn't surprise me.

Jackwads. :tsk:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

OK...so this is how it looks today:

Pick: 1 Detroit Lions .000 .558
Pick: 2 Kansas City Chiefs .133 .535
Pick: 3 St. Louis Rams .133 .535
Pick: 4 Cincinnati Bengals .233 .560
Pick: 5 Seattle Seahawks .267 .498
Pick: 6 Oakland Raiders .267 .521
Pick: 7 Cleveland Browns .267 .573
Pick: 8 Green Bay Packers .333 .513
Pick: 9 Jacksonville Jaguars .333 .535
Pick: 10 San Francisco 49ers .400 .456
Pick: 11 Buffalo Bills .467 .450
Pick: 12 Houston Texans .467 .515
Pick: 13 San Diego Chargers .467 .517
Pick: 14 Denver Broncos .533 .454
Pick: 15 Washington Redskins .533 .481
Pick: 16 Arizona Cardinals .533 .490
Pick: 17 New Orleans Saints .533 .492
Pick: 18 Philadelphia Eagles .567 .523
Pick: 19 New York Jets .600 .465
Pick: 20 Chicago Bears .600 .469
Pick: 21 Tampa Bay Buccaneers .600 .479
Pick: 22 Dallas Cowboys .600 .498 [Traded to Detroit]
Pick: 23 Minnesota Vikings .600 .508

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Week 17 is a hard one to predict, but I'm gonna take a stab at it. I believe that nothing will improve our SOS, so we will stay pretty low in that regard. The following games matter to us............and predictions.

Denver @ SD...obviously.....SD
Chicago @ Houston.............Chicago
Dallas @ Philly.....................Dallas
Washington @ San Fran.........Washington
Miami @ NY Jets....................NY Jets
Carolina @ New Orleans...........Carolina
New England @ Buffalo............NE
Oakland @ Tampa Bay.............TB
NY Giants @ Minnesota...........Minnesota

If this occurs, the draft should look sumthin like this:

13-DENVER
14-New Orleans
15-Philadelphia
16-San Diego
17-Washington
18-Arizona

If we WIN:
13-SD/Buf/Houston
14-New Orleans
15-Philadelphia
16-Washington
17-DENVER
18-Arizona

Regardless we should root for Houston and Buffalo this week...along with Washington, New Orleans, Philly, NYJ, Tampa and Minnesota.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Week 17 is a hard one to predict, but I'm gonna take a stab at it. I believe that nothing will improve our SOS, so we will stay pretty low in that regard. The following games matter to us............and predictions.

Denver @ SD...obviously.....SD
Chicago @ Houston.............Chicago
Dallas @ Philly.....................Dallas
Washington @ San Fran.........Washington
Miami @ NY Jets....................NY Jets
Carolina @ New Orleans...........Carolina
New England @ Buffalo............NE
Oakland @ Tampa Bay.............TB
NY Giants @ Minnesota...........Minnesota

If this occurs, the draft should look sumthin like this:

13-DENVER
14-New Orleans
15-Philadelphia
16-San Diego
17-Washington
18-Arizona

If we WIN:
13-SD/Buf/Houston
14-New Orleans
15-Philadelphia
16-Washington
17-DENVER
18-Arizona

Regardless we should root for Houston and Buffalo this week...along with Washington, New Orleans, Philly, NYJ, Tampa and Minnesota.


soooo..we're talking an estimated 4 spot difference. Sorry, but gimme a playoff birth, bragging rights over SD and the chance of watching Rivers cry on the sideline.

Now let's be clear...if we were already out of the playoff race and weren't facing a hated rival, then I wouldn't lose sleep over a loss....BUT that is simply not the case.

[Lonestar]

Exactly. I mean, those '96 Broncos never recovered from that playoff stunner against the Jags in the WC round did they? I think it's a load of crap to say that a playoff beat down would ruin the young players.

considering we had 5-6 potential HOF players on that team and all had extensive experience at the time with virtually NO rookies on the team and very few players with less than 5-6 years or more playing time..

But lets not let them be compared to this super young we have this year..

Folks huge difference on being able to deal with getting your ass kicked..

But then after Sunday nights prime game it will all be moot..


Let me add look at what happened to this team after the PITT ass kicking we took in 2005

we are still trying to recover from that debacle..

[Lonestar]

I just merged these two threads together as there was the same debate going in both of them..

[omac]

considering we had 5-6 potential HOF players on that team and all had extensive experience at the time with virtually NO rookies on the team and very few players with less than 5-6 years or more playing time..

But lets not let them be compared to this super young we have this year..

Folks huge difference on being able to deal with getting your ass kicked..

But then after Sunday nights prime game it will all be moot..


Let me add look at what happened to this team after the PITT ass kicking we took in 2005

we are still trying to recover from that debacle..

I don't see it as the Broncos not recovering after losing to Pitt at the AFCCG; it forced Shanny to move the offense in a different direction. Age and injuries have speeded up the emergence of the young players into the lineup.

In fact, on offense, the only one remaining from that 2005 team are Ben Hamilton and ... wait for it ... TATUM BELL! :D

[Lonestar]

I don't see it as the Broncos not recovering after losing to Pitt at the AFCCG; it forced Shanny to move the offense in a different direction. Age and injuries have speeded up the emergence of the young players into the lineup.

In fact, on offense, the only one remaining from that 2005 team are Ben Hamilton and ... wait for it ... TATUM BELL! :D

guess we see it differently.

the whole team took a dump in that game and yes it did indeed start the massive rebuilding since.. Our 2006 -2007 seasons were in the dumper even though we had a infusion of new players..

IMHO we have not recovered for the devastation of that game YET..

[WARHORSE]

If you would rather have a couple spots higher than the draft instead of a division title and a playoff spot then you are definitely an idiot to me. I am sure the majority of fans would agree that the playoffs are better, so I am not the only one dictating who's an idiot. We haven't made the playoffs in a couple years why would anyone want to miss out on another one?



Not that I take that view, I dont.

But you call people dumbasses and idiots cause you think youre it.

Youre view is the only view.

In other words, youre the one youre talkin about............you just dont see it.

[WARHORSE]

In the words of a thrown red tomato:




"You PLAY........to WIN..........the GAME."

[G_Money]

You mean you don't play the game just to play it? ;)

~G

[BroncoWave]

Let me add look at what happened to this team after the PITT ass kicking we took in 2005

we are still trying to recover from that debacle..

One big difference. Shanny started rebuilding the team after the 05 AFCCG. The nucleus of the current team will be here for years to come, on offense at least.

[BroncoWave]

guess we see it differently.

the whole team took a dump in that game and yes it did indeed start the massive rebuilding since.. Our 2006 -2007 seasons were in the dumper even though we had a infusion of new players..

IMHO we have not recovered for the devastation of that game YET..

Yes, but unless Shanny decides to blow the whole team up and start over again like he did after 05, I highly doubt a loss in the playoffs this year would have the same effect.

[Lonestar]

One big difference. Shanny started rebuilding the team after the 05 AFCCG. The nucleus of the current team will be here for years to come, on offense at least.

I thought that was what I said ..:confused:

[BroncoWave]

I thought that was what I said ..:confused:

Well you're saying that the 05 loss set us back several years and you seem to be saying a similar loss this year would do the same thing. I'm saying it wouldn't have the same effect since Shanny isn't planning on blowing up the team and starting over again like in 05.

[Lonestar]

Well you're saying that the 05 loss set us back several years and you seem to be saying a similar loss this year would do the same thing. I'm saying it wouldn't have the same effect since Shanny isn't planning on blowing up the team and starting over again like in 05.


What I was saying in one of the posts was the 2005 AFCCG was devastating to this team. and it was an older more mature team than what we have today..

Younger teams IMHO take this type of stuff harder. Even though we will have this team for a long time it may take them longer to get over it.. how many starters have more than 3 years experience.. Stokely, Hamilton, Weigmann Graham.. not much there for veteran leadership..

AS bad as the 2005 game was there were almost NO rookies on the team.. and we took a nose dive in 2006 for MANY reasons.

Again it is most likely moot as SAN will end our season for us.. Unless superman starts at RB this week..

[BroncoWave]

What I was saying in one of the posts was the 2005 AFCCG was devastating to this team. and it was an older more mature team than what we have today..

Younger teams IMHO take this type of stuff harder. Even though we will have this team for a long time it may take them longer to get over it.. how many starters have more than 3 years experience.. Stokely, Hamilton, Weigmann Graham.. not much there for veteran leadership..

AS bad as the 2005 game was there were almost NO rookies on the team.. and we took a nose dive in 2006 for MANY reasons.

Again it is most likely moot as SAN will end our season for us.. Unless superman starts at RB this week..

I agree that SD will probably win and make this a moot point, I just disagree that it would hurt the young guy's mentality that much. I think it will just make them that much more motivated to do better next year.

And as for the RB situation, Cory Boyd has a chance to show if he's Superman or not this week, until he pulls his hammy, that is! :lol:

[NightTrainLayne]

Just one of my silly analogies. . ..bear with me.

One father tells his son when the son asks to join the football team. "You'll just get killed out there son. I don't want you hurt. You're just not good enough to try out for the football team. Sorry, but the truth hurts sometimes."

Another Father tells his son. "Go for it. Just try your best, that's all I ask for. I'm proud whenever you put your best efforts into something." And the kid gets run over and dropped from the team.

Which one damaged the "young guy's mentality" more? Giving it your best shot and coming up short doesn't hurt your mentality. Being told you're not good enough does.

[fcspikeit]

What I was saying in one of the posts was the 2005 AFCCG was devastating to this team. and it was an older more mature team than what we have today..

Younger teams IMHO take this type of stuff harder. Even though we will have this team for a long time it may take them longer to get over it.. how many starters have more than 3 years experience.. Stokely, Hamilton, Weigmann Graham.. not much there for veteran leadership..

AS bad as the 2005 game was there were almost NO rookies on the team.. and we took a nose dive in 2006 for MANY reasons.

Again it is most likely moot as SAN will end our season for us.. Unless superman starts at RB this week..


In your opinion, when would be a good time for us to make the playoffs? When we're the best team in the NFL? This is the pros Jr. You make it sound like their 3rd graders. Good greaf, if one playoff loss ruins our players, they shouldn't even be playing at this level.

Besides that, how can blowing a 3 game lead be any easier on this team? Just beating SD to get to the playoffs would build more confidence then one playoff lose could take away..

[dogfish]

You mean you don't play the game just to play it? ;)

~G



http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2350/340xix6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[BroncoWave]

In your opinion, when would be a good time for us to make the playoffs? When we're the best team in the NFL? This is the pros Jr. You make it sound like their 3rd graders. Good greaf, if one playoff loss ruins our players, they shouldn't even be playing at this level.

Besides that, how can blowing a 3 game lead be any easier on this team? Just beating SD to get to the playoffs would build more confidence then one playoff lose could take away..

EXACTLY! If anything, I think being the first team in league history to blow a 3 game lead with 3 to go would be much more demoralizing to the team than going to the playoffs and getting beat in the first round.

[Superchop 7]

The 1977 team that went to the Superbowl had 6 coaches.

I had the pleasure of listening to one of the coaches (starts with a P and has spent a lifetime around football.....somebody help me with the name) talk about the Broncos.

His answer to the team ?

Get a "nasty" linebacker and teach every last one of them how to tackle, heads up and drive through your man, first week of training camp should be tackling fundamentals. He also said our linebackers look "lost" out there. (But praised Woodyard and Larsen......hmmmm)

He also said the best tackler on the team was Champ.

I agree with the assesment.

A nasty linebacker "can" light a fire in an entire team. (Gradishar, Wilson)

You all know my guy is Curry, hands down he is the best thing since AJ Hawk.

I think getting the guy is do-able.

To take the "toughen them up" approach a step further, I also like the guy Mayocks touting as a headhunter free safety.

Whatever his name is. (help)

Look, we can get these guys.

And we should.

on a sidenote, since I always have an undrafted free agent I'm thinking about......(Alridge, Browner the year before) I'll toss out this years.......Nate Ness.

Nate was a interception machine his junior year.

His senior year they stopped throwing his direction for the most part.

So, because his stats are down, his value dropped.

I say give him a shot, a ballhawk is never a bad thing to have around.

As for drafting a RB.......well.....we have some guys that can do the job, the problem was health, I see no need to spend a pick early, to be honest, I'd rather have Javorskie Lane in the later rounds blowing lanes wide open than another RB. (Plus, Hillis is needed at RB)

Strong safety, I like Nic Harris, of course Cheng is just as good, but Harris is the guy you want in the locker room. (better value also)

As for d-line, open the checkbook, get me one bonafide stud on that line.........tired of screwing around.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Curry rules dude. He's way better than AJ Hawk though. But good post bro.

[silkamilkamonico]

I'm not sure how I feel about Shanahan drafting defensive with the first round pick.

We need defensive more than anything, but Shanahan and company have shown they don't have a clue what they're doing on that side of the ball.

If they draft defensive I will look at it as a wasted pick.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

You can't go wrong with a linebacker, IMHO. I'd stay away from a DE, be a little hesitant on a DT (but would cheer it) -- but LB I have no problems with. Immediate impact.

[Dean]

The Broncos have a history of being proficient at drafting LBs who can be productive from day one. D-line has that learning curve to go through before they reach their potential. IMO a cover safety would be a good first pick. This draft appears to have quality at both positions that we can reach.

However, for years we have needed D-linemen above all else. It is time, that failing to be able to draft D-line, we go into free agency looking to buy some immediate talent.

[Traveler]

As for drafting a RB.......well.....we have some guys that can do the job, the problem was health, I see no need to spend a pick early, to be honest, I'd rather have Javorskie Lane in the later rounds blowing lanes wide open than another RB. (Plus, Hillis is needed at RB)

Unless there is a franchise type running back in this years draft, which there isn't, RB shouldn't be addressed at all in the upcoming draft.

We already have 8-10 RB's already on the roster. The only 3 RB's that should be kept are Torain, Alridge, and Pope.

Hillis should remain at FB or make him an H-Back.

[MOtorboat]

What I was saying in one of the posts was the 2005 AFCCG was devastating to this team. and it was an older more mature team than what we have today..

Younger teams IMHO take this type of stuff harder. Even though we will have this team for a long time it may take them longer to get over it.. how many starters have more than 3 years experience.. Stokely, Hamilton, Weigmann Graham.. not much there for veteran leadership..

AS bad as the 2005 game was there were almost NO rookies on the team.. and we took a nose dive in 2006 for MANY reasons.

Again it is most likely moot as SAN will end our season for us.. Unless superman starts at RB this week..

Two things.

It was devastating, because Pittsburgh finally took enough time to sit down and scheme against the all-out blitz packages we were running.

That game didn't wipe Plummer's confidence. Drafting Cutler sapped Plummer's confidence.

It will always be better for a team to make the playoffs no matter what. Draft position be damned. You can find a good player at 12, and you can find a good player at 18, as long as you freakin' scout right.

It will always be better to make the playoffs. Always.

[CoachChaz]

Unless there is a franchise type running back in this years draft, which there isn't, RB shouldn't be addressed at all in the upcoming draft.

We already have 8-10 RB's already on the roster. The only 3 RB's that should be kept are Torain, Alridge, and Pope.

Hillis should remain at FB or make him an H-Back.

By that argument, we also have 2 potentially good safeties on the roster as well in Woodyard and Barrett. Then MAYBE a good MLB in Larsen. So where do we go? D-line? Trust me...the running back class is WAY better than the d-line class this year.

Torain will always be injury prone and Hillis is NOT a tailback.

[WARHORSE]

Unless there is a franchise type running back in this years draft, which there isn't, RB shouldn't be addressed at all in the upcoming draft.

We already have 8-10 RB's already on the roster. The only 3 RB's that should be kept are Torain, Alridge, and Pope.

Hillis should remain at FB or make him an H-Back.


I think Chris Wells is a franchise back, and perfect for us. Him and Hillis would dominate imo.:coffee:

[G_Money]

Unless there is a franchise type running back in this years draft, which there isn't, RB shouldn't be addressed at all in the upcoming draft.

We already have 8-10 RB's already on the roster. The only 3 RB's that should be kept are Torain, Alridge, and Pope.

Hillis should remain at FB or make him an H-Back.

I'm confused by this. :confused:

To me, that sounds like, "We already have plenty of scrubs, we don't need a better back unless he's a HOF star. Also, fire most of the scrubs."

If all we have are mediocre backs, and we're gonna fire most of those, why wouldn't we want a RB in the draft?

~G

[Traveler]

By that argument, we also have 2 potentially good safeties on the roster as well in Woodyard and Barrett.

No. Only one decent safety on the roster at this point (Barrett). Moving Woodyard from his natural position would be another bone-headed move the the team. Safety is the position I'd address in FA and later in the draft. I like the Atogwe kid from STL.


Then MAYBE a good MLB in Larsen.
Maybe being the key word here. He did show enough to where can diagnose better than Webster and Niko. I'd prefer they address this position in the 1st round.


So where do we go? D-line?
They should draft DL in the second round.



Trust me...the running back class is WAY better than the d-line class this year.
That may be true, but the defense should be addressed with this entire draft.


Torain will always be injury prone and Hillis is NOT a tailback.

Agree, but it's not a priority this offseason IMO.

[DenBronx]

so if we lose we will be drafting at 13?

i'll take it. i would love us to win but pick 13 sounds really good right now. i think we could do alot of damage in next years draft. then we come back next year alot stronger.

[WARHORSE]

By that argument, we also have 2 potentially good safeties on the roster as well in Woodyard and Barrett. Then MAYBE a good MLB in Larsen. So where do we go? D-line? Trust me...the running back class is WAY better than the d-line class this year.

Torain will always be injury prone and Hillis is NOT a tailback.

Dline doesnt usually make an immediate impact either. Too much to learn, both mentally and physically in technique.

RB and LB are usually the positions that are able to make an immediate impact. I would love to see Wells on our team. But I also like Shonn Greene. He's brutal. One of these guys with the rest of the draft going defense, Im in.

[Traveler]

I'm confused by this. :confused:

To me, that sounds like, "We already have plenty of scrubs, we don't need a better back unless he's a HOF star. Also, fire most of the scrubs."

If all we have are mediocre backs, and we're gonna fire most of those, why wouldn't we want a RB in the draft?

~G

Because fixing the defense should be the priority IMO. Having Wells or Greene does little if we can't get the other team off the field.

I agree our current backs are mediocre at best. But I think we can get by with them until we get our defense in order.

[G_Money]

Okay, but fixing the RB position at least fixes one problem, and lets us win on days when Jay isn’t stellar.

It also can help keep the defense off the field in the 2nd half to help preserve leads.

I’m all for drafting a MLB, but the difference between 2nd and 3rd or 4th round DL talent isn’t that great this year. I happen to like Myron Pryor for DT, and there aren’t any DTs I could guarantee would be available in the 2nd that I like better or project better. He should be a 2nd day pick.

And 1st round DL talent busts at a very high level. If you gave me a choice between MLB, S, RB or DL in the first round, that would be my order of preference. If Woodyard and Barrett cover our safety problem, scratch that one off the list. If we decide against a first round MLB then it’s between RB and DL.

Shanahan won’t pick a 1st round RB, but I’d pick one of those before I got a DL. McCoy is breaking all Dorsett’s records, Moreno is running rampant over the SEC, Greene runs so hard he makes Hillis look average in that dept, Wells is a nasty runner who might catch an injury bug from his upright style but is a very good talent…all of those guys are SIGNIFICANT upgrades to our ground game. I dunno that all of them will come out, but until we find out I’m keeping my options open at RB.

Having more offensive plays, more long drives, and more time-consuming drives means there’s less time for opposing Ds to score on us. It’s not the same as fixing the D, but the odds of any first-day DL pick coming in and making an immediate impact – even if they eventually work out and turn into Pro Bowlers – is small. Drafting a first-day DL is very unlikely to HELP the DL next year. Drafting a MLB could be an instant help. So could drafting a RB.

*shrugs* We need defense, but we also need a running game.

I’m not averse to adding both, if the right players are there. We’ve been making do with junk on the DL for a while, but we’ve been doing the same with the RB position. While we’re fixing this junk problem, we might as well get it all fixed.

~G

[MOtorboat]

Okay, but fixing the RB position at least fixes one problem, and lets us win on days when Jay isn’t stellar.

It also can help keep the defense off the field in the 2nd half to help preserve leads.

But fixing the defense means we can win in January. You can ALWAYS find a running back.


I’m all for drafting a MLB, but the difference between 2nd and 3rd or 4th round DL talent isn’t that great this year. I happen to like Myron Pryor for DT, and there aren’t any DTs I could guarantee would be available in the 2nd that I like better or project better. He should be a 2nd day pick.

And 1st round DL talent busts at a very high level. If you gave me a choice between MLB, S, RB or DL in the first round, that would be my order of preference. If Woodyard and Barrett cover our safety problem, scratch that one off the list. If we decide against a first round MLB then it’s between RB and DL.

I'm not going to advocate for any of the DTs that will be in this draft. Cody just said he's staying, at that pretty much eliminates a lot of d-tackle talent in the first round. As far as 2, 3 or 4 round, sure, get another DT and hope Powell/Robertson/Thomas/New Guy can be a solid rotation. Just don't pick another Toviesi.


Shanahan won’t pick a 1st round RB, but I’d pick one of those before I got a DL.

I have this funny feeling that he's going to this year. I really wish he'd go defense, but I began looking at this, this week, after the Buffalo debacle, and the more I look at it, the more I'm convinced that this might be the year he tries. And that scares me.


McCoy is breaking all Dorsett’s records, Moreno is running rampant over the SEC, Greene runs so hard he makes Hillis look average in that dept, Wells is a nasty runner who might catch an injury bug from his upright style but is a very good talent…all of those guys are SIGNIFICANT upgrades to our ground game. I dunno that all of them will come out, but until we find out I’m keeping my options open at RB.

It always seems like a good year at running back. Think back to last year. Remember all the hype surrounding Stewart and Chris Johnson and Mendenhall or Felix Jones. Well, two of those guys worked, two got injured, but looked OK/good before they got hurt. I didn't even mention McFadden. Running back always looks good. It's a prime position, and the best athletes always want to have the ball.


We need defense, but we also need a running game.

Totally agree, but the defense needs fixing much more than the running game.

[G_Money]

This is actually a bad year to need a RB.

The Texans got Slaton as a steal last year, Forte was a 2nd rounder, Tashard Choice is running well for the Boys and he went in the 4th...

LAST YEAR was the year to get a RB. It was one of the greatest quality RB classes I've ever seen. They obviously won't all work out, but I felt really good that one of 8 or 10 guys could be and would be successful here. You remember me throwing things when we picked Williams over Choice, right?

So that makes this year a problem. On the one hand, the backs in this class - even if all of them come out - aren't up to last year's standards. But there are some very good ones, and RB may be a position where some guys fall due to last year's abundant crop creating fewer needs at the position early in the draft.

You actually can't get a RB every year. There are some years there is one guy, some years 2...some years none of the guys really work out. There are always backs coming out, but not always impact backs.

Last year had a ridiculous number of impact backs. This year has fewer. But let's see who declares before we decide how much talent is there.

I don't care how many backs there are in the draft as long as we get one who can suit our needs.

I still think we go MLB in the draft. If there's one thing Shanny loves it's his 1st day LBs, and there are some good ones at the position this year. We're also pretty good at picking em, Sykes aside, so that's a pick I can feel good about.

If we go RB I think it'll be a 2nd round pick not a 1st. At that point, with either S or MLB locked down in round one, I'm far more okay with it.

MLB and S in the first two rounds is also fine. ;)

~G

[dogfish]

hey G, wasn't pryor initially projected as a pretty high pick? what happened to him this year?

[fcspikeit]

IMO, we need a lot of help at DE. I think our DT's look better then our DE's. i know it will take a couple years for them to really have an impact, but at some point we have to pull the trigger. My hope would be that we would go out and get at least 1 stud DE in FA. That would really help us out. Then we could look for LB, S and RB in the draft.

If we do nothing in FA to get an every down DE and we don't draft a DE. Where will that put us 2 years down the road? Even if we drafted one next year, we would still be 2 or 3 years down the road before that pick would help us out...

The problem is with the high bust rate at DE. That's why I feel you have to go after the proven guys in FA or by trade. We have to stop spending all this time and money getting CB's. If nothing else, this year has shown, it doesn't matter how good your CB's are, they can not win you games by themselves. On the other hand, if you have an awesome front 4 they can win you games regardless how bad your CB's are. D-lineman should be seen as more impotent then secondary guys.

But to put it plane and simple, there is no question, our defense is way worse then our offense. If we're going to try and fix the biggest problem with the draft or FA, it will be on that side of the ball. Our defense is simply the biggest problem. I believe we would benefit the most by getting a competent DC. If we don't fix that side of the ball. We will never be good enough to be an elite team. You just can't win giving up as many points as we have... You can't expect to score 40 every game to consistently win.. Regardless who you have on offense.

[dogfish]

D-lineman should be seen as more impotent then secondary guys.




:hahaha:



:rofl:

[fcspikeit]

:hahaha:



:rofl:

No pun intended :laugh:

[Dean]

Many attempts have been made to rank the importance of positions in football. Most rank D-line above all but the QB. Here are some examples:

This is the second page of an article

close windowImportant all-around players that help both vs. the run and in the passing game by either rushing or covering the middle part of the field. A good set of linebackers can make a defense very difficult to handle and can disrupt almost any type of game plan.

2. Offensive Line-

This group is the lifeblood of any good offense, because very few running backs can make plays without good blocking and very few quarterbacks can make things happen with defenders in their faces. A good line can help a team call the plays it wants when it wants and allow them to possess the ball and control the clock.

1. Defensive Line-

Defense wins championships, and this is where it all starts on that side of the ball. This was a tough pick over linebackers but even the best linebackers need someone to at least keep the offensive line from getting up into them before the play gets going.

A good defensive line can stop the running game and pressure the quarterback into making an uncharacteristic game-changing mistake at any time. When a defensive line starts to take over and make plays, the opposing offense is often powerless to stop it and their whole gameplan is shot.


Here is another.


Web CBSSports.com

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+ Most important position to a team
- Most important position to a team
TwoCents22 Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Oct 25, 2006

November 23, 2008 8:22 pmScore: 96


I'd thought I'd post this get a better idea how some of you guys think.

In order, what positions do you feel have the biggest impact on team success,? I know coaching would be atop alot of our lists, but let's keep this to the players on the field.



My list would go like this:

1. Left Tackle

2. Defensive Tackle

3. Middle LB

4. Quarterback



As you can see, I'm an advocate of building the line first. The QB position, while still being and integral part to a team, is slightly over-rated.

. . . and another




Matt McGuire's NFL Draftology 205B:
Positional Impact


205B: POSITIONAL IMPACT – What is it?

We all know certain positions in the NFL are more valuable than others. Take a look at the previous 12 No. 1 overall picks in the NFL Draft from 1997 to 2008. Eight quarterbacks were taken, two left tackles (even though I am not sold on Jake Long at all living up to the hype) and two defensive ends.

This isn't some huge coincidence. It's very rare that tight ends, cornerbacks and inside linebackers go in the top 10. You can make a case for defensive tackles, but I believe that is simply a position where not much talent comes out of college. Glenn Dorsey was the best defensive tackle prospect since Warren Sapp in 1995. That is 13 years of the draft lacking elite talent at the position.

Guards and centers are uncommon first-round picks, and only a few are taken in the second round every year.

Now, I am in no way saying that guards, centers, corners, etc. don't make a huge impact over the course of a game. I think they are very important positions, but other positions are simply worth more in this league.

Back to the 2008 NFL Draft, and let's take a look at why the Dolphins did not seriously consider Glenn Dorsey with that pick. The players being mentioned here were Jake Long, Chris Long, and Vernon Gholston.

The reason why the Dolphins were never going to select Dorsey is because run stuffers don't make enough plays to be worthy of a No. 1 pick. They don't get after the quarterback as the nose tackle in a 3-4 scheme. You can find run stuffers in this league at a relatively cheap price, or even draft a great fit at nose tackle such as Athyba Rubin out of Iowa State in the late rounds, and he can still have a very similar impact to Dorsey at that position. There is only so much a nose tackle can do. They occupy blockers and plug the run. That's pretty much it.

So which positions do you spend high draft picks on? What positions make the most valuable impact in this league?

The three most valuable positions in this league are quarterback, left tackle and 4-3 right defensive end or 3-4 outside rush linebacker (which I classify as the same position, since it's the pass rusher coming off the edge varying to scheme). I bring up the point about the past 12 No. 1 picks. They all fall under these three positions (no 3-4 OLBs taken, but I still find it extremely valuable for those 3-4 teams).

Obviously, we see other positions go very high in the draft too, and like I said before, I'm not saying only these positions are valuable. Calvin Johnson and Braylon Edwards were taken No. 2 overall in their respected drafts, but they went that high because their value demanded it. They were better than any other player on the board at that time, or quite possibly even the best players in their draft despite being second fiddle to the No. 1 pick.

This is the same for Vernon Davis and Kellen Winslow, both of whom were taken at No. 6 overall. I don't believe tight ends should go that high, but their perceived talent commanded they go over other players that played more impactful positions (such as quarterback, tackles, or linebackers that make many more plays over the course of a football game).

Now let's take a look at analyzing some draft picks in the past, why those decisions were made, and what can we learn from them.

Exhibit A: Browns select Joe Thomas over Adrian Peterson

The Browns didn't think Adrian Peterson wasn't a phenomenal talent. Anyone with half a brain knew he was going to be very special in the NFL, but how special would Peterson have been in Cleveland if he didn't have a line to block for him and had a quarterback who wasn't protected? If Peterson was the pick, then the Browns can say bye-bye to a passing game for a very long time. Left tackles like Joe Thomas are very rare to acquire. He was an outstanding athlete and a monster in pass protection, and had defining leadership to boot. If Cleveland passed on him, then their offense is at a major risk. Their quarterback's blind side is not going to be protected. With Thomas playing left tackle, the quarterback (little did we know it was going to be Derek Anderson) can feel more comfortable in the pocket and make more plays in the passing game, which in turn opens up the running game. Now that the running game is effective, the play action becomes deadly, and this is exactly what happened for the Browns in 2007.

If Peterson is the pick, the Browns have an elite rusher. They have a player who maximizes the yardage of the play and is a huge scoring threat, but what they don't have is everything I just mentioned. Maybe their quarterback gets seriously hurt because the left tackle isn't doing his job. The quarterback would get very rattled in the pocket because he doesn't have confidence to get a play off without getting hit. Peterson wouldn't be able to reach his full potential because his line wouldn't have been up to snuff on the left side.

Browns fans know what I'm talking about; they saw it first hand with the Tim Couch era. Cleveland didn't want to re-live that, so they made what was, in my opinion, one of the best picks in the 2007 NFL Draft. It's a pick we look back now on and say "It was an easy pick because obviously Joe Thomas was a great player since he emerged as one of the top left tackles in his rookie year." Hindsight is always going to be 20/20. Thomas had issues with not having great bulk or being an elite run-blocker, and it's hard to pass up on a player like Peterson or the fan favorite in Brady Quinn. This pick did take some balls and there was much more to it than meets the eye… that's the draft in a nutshell.

Exhibit B: Texans shock the world and take Mario Williams No. 1

When Mario Williams was inked the night before the draft, 95 percent of the people and experts hated the pick. "How could they pass up on Reggie Bush AND Vince Young? They need a running back AND a quarterback!"

I loved the pick made by Charlie Casserly and defended it even going into the 2007 season. I'm sorry, but if you think Bush or Young should have gone No. 1, then you never watched Mario Williams play. How many people at Radio City Music Hall saw N.C. State games? They saw plenty of Bush and Young on SportsCenter, and decided to boo the No. 1 pick.

The biggest reason why Casserly pulled the trigger on Mario, was simply because he was the best player in the draft, and I totally agreed with that. He was a 6-7, 285-pound monstrous pass rusher and an elite athlete. He had begun to turn the corner and looked like he was going to have a bright future in the NFL, but on the other hand Vince Young did win the championship game and Reggie Bush was dubbed as the next Gale Sayers.

Not only was Mario regarded by the Texans as the No. 1 player on their big board, but he also played the position of greatest impact.

You don't draft a running back No. 1 overall, especially in a zone-blocking scheme where effective runners can be found later in the draft. Bush had issues with carrying the load at USC, and he wasn't very comfortable between the tackles. Still, even I have to admit I thought he would be a star in the league.

Why not hometown hero Vince Young? The Texans did need a quarterback; David Carr up to this point was an obvious bust. Well, you don't take a quarterback this high who doesn't have much of an offensive line or supporting cast. The only player who was talented on this offense was Andre Johnson. Young wasn't going to get much help, and he also had a lot of bust factors (mechanics, football IQ, intelligence, West Coast offensive fit, etc.).

When it comes down to it, defense does win championships, and if the Texans were ever going to win, then they needed a player who could scare a quarterback and wreak havoc. That player was Mario Williams.

Williams was taken because he would have made the most impact for the Houston Texans and helped their team in the long run more than Vince Young or Reggie Bush. So far, so good.

So, we have analyzed which positions are the most highly regarded on Draft Day and which positions you shouldn't take very high. We analyzed the draft to discover the concept of positional impact. I have an important discussion planned for NFL Draftology 205C: Which are the most overrated and underrated positions on Draft Day? I also list some future trends in the draft. Stay tuned.



. . . and there is alot-a-more.

[omac]

Great articles, Dean. :salute: I agree with the last one the most. Interesting insights about value per play based on draft position.

With regards to the Broncos, I haven't seen them play consistently good or even decent defense these last 2 seasons, so unless we get a better defensive coordinator, I just don't feel comfortable about drafting defense high, like we did in 2007 and look where that pick is going.

These last 3 drafts, though, our offensive picks have been phenomenal. I wouldn't mind getting a RB early, then get a potentially good defensive player in the 3rd round ... high enough round to be have really good talent, low enough that it won't hurt us if he busts. Heck, maybe even get 2 RBs in the 1st 2 rounds ... imagine getting a Johnson/Slaton type and a Forte/Stewart type. :woot:

[lex]

Great articles, Dean. :salute: I agree with the last one the most. Interesting insights about value per play based on draft position.

With regards to the Broncos, I haven't seen them play consistently good or even decent defense these last 2 seasons, so unless we get a better defensive coordinator, I just don't feel comfortable about drafting defense high, like we did in 2007 and look where that pick is going.

These last 3 drafts, though, our offensive picks have been phenomenal. I wouldn't mind getting a RB early, then get a potentially good defensive player in the 3rd round ... high enough round to be have really good talent, low enough that it won't hurt us if he busts. Heck, maybe even get 2 RBs in the 1st 2 rounds ... imagine getting a Johnson/Slaton type and a Forte/Stewart type. :woot:

Ahem...check out the sig.


OK, wheres my sig?