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BoltsOwnU
11-04-2008, 05:12 PM
And don't any of you Donk-heads get so hypocritical as to claim their respective teams' win/loss record means anything (after all, it was the exact opposite according to all you lunkheads that thought Cutler outperfromed Rivers last season).

Seriously, I'll bet Shanarat is already moving a couple of QB's names up on his draft board. . .:coffee:



:D

BroncoJoe
11-04-2008, 05:13 PM
Broncos: 4-4
Chargers: 3-5

Go home, loser.

turftoad
11-04-2008, 05:14 PM
Neither QB has plyed worth a shit latley.

Wouldn't be pounding you chest to much.

underrated29
11-04-2008, 05:16 PM
like he said^

Both are playing like shit. Its like saying who sucks worse the chefs or the raiders.... Obviously its the raiders, but thats not the point.

Point is until both teams step up and play like men, instead of sallys like rivers normally does its a pointless subject.

MOtorboat
11-04-2008, 05:16 PM
And don't any of you Donk-heads get so hypocritical as to claim their respective teams' win/loss record means anything

I'm sorry, but um, you're going to claim we're the hypocrites now?

claymore
11-04-2008, 05:18 PM
And don't any of you Donk-heads get so hypocritical as to claim their respective teams' win/loss record means anything (after all, it was the exact opposite according to all you lunkheads that thought Cutler outperfromed Rivers last season).

Seriously, I'll bet Shanarat is already moving a couple of QB's names up on his draft board. . .:coffee:



:D

Way to feel strong after a Bye week ding dong.

BroncoJoe
11-04-2008, 05:18 PM
P.S. Dildo: Cutler did outperform Phyllis last year.

BroncoJoe
11-04-2008, 05:22 PM
Where's that negative rep thread?

BoltsOwnU
11-04-2008, 05:52 PM
Broncos: 4-4
Chargers: 3-5

Go home, loser.


LOL fish on!!!

Yes of course, and Cutler was better last year even though the records were reversed. . .thank you for demonstrating what I already knew, Donk homers are the most hypocritical bunch of backpedallers, ever, when it comes to their team.

And um, PR still is the highest rated QB in the league and has been playing quite well actually. Take away two unfortunate picks, and he'd be perfect. Take away two picks from Cutler and you'd save a quarter of Denver football, maybe.

I know, the truth hurts, but after all those silly threads, this just had to be said now that the truth is so abundantly clear.

:D

BroncoJoe
11-04-2008, 05:55 PM
Rankings, smamkings. You all should have kept Drew Brees. You'd have a championship by now.

Too bad you don't (ever), and won't have one this year, or for the next decade.

BoltsOwnU
11-04-2008, 06:00 PM
Rankings, smamkings. You all should have kept Drew Brees. You'd have a championship by now.

Too bad you don't (ever), and won't have one this year, or for the next decade.

This is the part where you stamp your feet and take all your toys into the other room???:rolleyes:

BroncoJoe
11-04-2008, 06:03 PM
This is the part where you stamp your feet and take all your toys into the other room???:rolleyes:

How about you actually win something before pounding your chest? "Best team" to never win a championship.

LMFAO.

MOtorboat
11-04-2008, 06:05 PM
This is the part where you stamp your feet and take all your toys into the other room???:rolleyes:

And, in case you forgot, and judging by your repeated comments, I think you have, we have some toys to play with in Denver.

BeefStew25
11-04-2008, 06:06 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/9433/elway6125_medium.jpg

BroncoJoe
11-04-2008, 06:06 PM
3-5.

WTE
11-04-2008, 06:19 PM
I know, the truth hurts, but after all those silly threads, this just had to be said now that the truth is so abundantly clear.

:D

Hey BOU! :welcome:

It's great to have you back again. You're always welcome here!

I also find it interesting that Broncos fans are no longer constantly annoying us with those Cutler > Rivers threads.

They're more annoying than all those political ads we've seen lately.

Thank God both the Political ads and the Cutler > Rivers threads are now gone for good.


http://www.foxnews.com/images/308915/1_42_obama_barack.jpghttp://www.foxnews.com/images/322055/4_41_mccain_john_051507.jpg

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/images/061009rivers-mm.jpghttp://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/19/2008/07/22/52x39/cutlertall.jpg

BoltsOwnU
11-04-2008, 06:58 PM
Hey BOU! :welcome:

It's great to have you back again. You're always welcome here!

I also find it interesting that Broncos fans are no longer constantly annoying us with those Cutler > Rivers threads.

They're more annoying than all those political ads we've seen lately.

Thank God both the Political ads and the Cutler > Rivers threads are now gone for good.


http://www.foxnews.com/images/308915/1_42_obama_barack.jpghttp://www.foxnews.com/images/322055/4_41_mccain_john_051507.jpg

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/images/061009rivers-mm.jpghttp://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/19/2008/07/22/52x39/cutlertall.jpg

Unfortunately, now they'll all revert to polishing decades old trophies, that most here were too busy pooping in their diapers to even understand at the time, as if it's supremely relevant to every single thread ever posted here.

claymore
11-04-2008, 07:13 PM
Unfortunately, now they'll all revert to polishing decades old trophies, that most here were too busy pooping in their diapers to even understand at the time, as if it's supremely relevant to every single thread ever posted here.

They are allot neater than silly AFCW trophies. We have lots of those.

BoltsOwnU
11-04-2008, 07:16 PM
They are allot neater than silly AFCW trophies. We have lots of those.

I like your sig pic. But come on now, don't you wonder, just a bit, which team that ball is gettin' thrown to?:D

Midnight Blue
11-05-2008, 04:49 AM
Unfortunately, now they'll all revert to polishing decades old trophies, that most here were too busy pooping in their diapers to even understand at the time, as if it's supremely relevant to every single thread ever posted here.

At least we have some Lombardi trophies...unlike one other division franchise...

GEM
11-05-2008, 09:21 AM
And don't any of you Donk-heads get so hypocritical as to claim their respective teams' win/loss record means anything (after all, it was the exact opposite according to all you lunkheads that thought Cutler outperfromed Rivers last season).

Seriously, I'll bet Shanarat is already moving a couple of QB's names up on his draft board. . .:coffee:



:D

You're on the wrong board...those convos all happened on Mania with a bunch of 12 year old Sparkler/Broncos fans. ;)

atwater27
11-05-2008, 10:27 AM
LOL fish on!!!

Yes of course, and Cutler was better last year even though the records were reversed. . .thank you for demonstrating what I already knew, Donk homers are the most hypocritical bunch of backpedallers, ever, when it comes to their team.

And um, PR still is the highest rated QB in the league and has been playing quite well actually. Take away two unfortunate picks, and he'd be perfect. Take away two picks from Cutler and you'd save a quarter of Denver football, maybe.

I know, the truth hurts, but after all those silly threads, this just had to be said now that the truth is so abundantly clear.

:D

I'll cede you that Rivers is a better QB at this point in his career than Cutler. But you might want to consider changing your name because the Dolts don't own anything. Except for being the biggest chokers in the league the past 5 years. They make the kind of choking noises you hear in hardcore porn flicks. And they like it.

BroncoJoe
11-05-2008, 10:47 AM
Maybe he can brag about the Chargers being the only team in the AFC West without an all-time winning record.

Or, the fact they have zero championships.

AGap
11-05-2008, 10:53 AM
You're on the wrong board...those convos all happened on Mania with a bunch of 12 year old Sparkler/Broncos fans. with skid marks in their underwear ;)

Edited

Day1BroncoFan
11-05-2008, 12:09 PM
What happened to the "chargirls own the division" boasts? The only thing you own right now is second place, right behind the Broncos.

BoltsOwnU
11-05-2008, 12:33 PM
What happened to the "chargirls own the division" boasts? The only thing you own right now is second place, right behind the Broncos.

Those threads will be revived in a matter of days I suspect.:coffee:

underrated29
11-05-2008, 12:36 PM
Those threads will be revived in a matter of days I suspect.:coffee:



LOL-

They should be. You guys have an easier schedule than we do. If you guys cant pull out of it, you will start to push the faid for the worst spot in the division.

Day1BroncoFan
11-05-2008, 12:44 PM
Those threads will be revived in a matter of days I suspect.:coffee:

I hope you're wrong but I fear the worst is yet to come for my beloved Broncos.

I hope for a turnaround but...

BoltsOwnU
11-05-2008, 12:53 PM
I hope you're wrong but I fear the worst is yet to come for my beloved Broncos.

I hope for a turnaround but...

I do have sympathy for your injury report. That's playing a bigger role in your struggles than simple lack of talent on defense in my opinion.

Bronco Bible
11-07-2008, 09:03 AM
I cannot read a word doltsownu is typing I have some problems with my vision from the sparkle of two super bowl trophys,one of which we claimed in your house:laugh::coffee:

Slick
11-07-2008, 09:13 AM
And don't any of you Donk-heads get so hypocritical as to claim their respective teams' win/loss record means anything (after all, it was the exact opposite according to all you lunkheads that thought Cutler outperfromed Rivers last season).

Seriously, I'll bet Shanarat is already moving a couple of QB's names up on his draft board. . .:coffee:



:D

I think you've got your Bronco forums mixed up BOU.

SeeingRed
11-07-2008, 11:36 AM
Kinda hard to have a Culter vs Rivers thread when Cutler is so much better. Takes the point away.

BoltsOwnU
11-07-2008, 03:26 PM
Kinda hard to have a Culter vs Rivers thread when Cutler is so much better. Takes the point away.

"SeeingRed" must be symptomatic of being "on drugs". . .:confused:

BoltsOwnU
11-07-2008, 03:28 PM
I cannot read a word doltsownu is typing I have some problems with my vision from the sparkle of two super bowl trophys,one of which we claimed in your house:laugh::coffee:

I can't help it if Denver is too lame a city to host the big one.:bored:

BroncoJoe
11-07-2008, 03:29 PM
Worst Troll Ever.

Sorry, WTE.

BroncoJoe
11-07-2008, 03:30 PM
I can't help it if Denver is too lame a city to host the big one.:bored:

I have a feeling you've "hosted a big one" more than once.

Day1BroncoFan
11-07-2008, 03:30 PM
I can't help it if Denver is too lame a city to host the big one.:bored:

I think this has more to do with NFL stupidity than Denver.

They don't want their poor little fans to get cold feet after paying thousands for tickets.

Midnight Blue
11-07-2008, 03:37 PM
I can't help it if Denver is too lame a city to host the big one.:bored:

And we can't help it if San Diego is too lame a team to hoist the big one... :bored:

Bronco Bible
11-07-2008, 03:59 PM
I have a feeling you've "hosted a big one" more than once.

Or HOISTED a big one:shocked:

Northman
11-07-2008, 04:00 PM
I have a feeling you've "hosted a big one" more than once.

:lol::lol:

MOtorboat
11-07-2008, 04:01 PM
I can't help it if Denver is too lame a city to host the big one.:bored:

Is that what you've got left? :tsk:

Midnight Blue
11-07-2008, 04:11 PM
Is that what you've got left? :tsk:

What can he say? He knows the Boltz trophy case is empty....and that it isn't likely to change this year either. :lol:

Bronco Bible
11-07-2008, 04:26 PM
That would be his day job Midnight ,he is the OFFICIAL duster of the chugger trophy case, takes no time at all ,he does not have to waste time dusting AROUND anything:lol:

Northman
11-07-2008, 05:12 PM
The best thing about Bou is not only is his team second rate but so is the chump in his avatar. lmao

Retired_Member_001
11-07-2008, 05:13 PM
Gee, what happened to all the Cutler vs. Rivers threads

They dissapeared like the Chargers chances of making the playoffs...:coffee:

BoltsOwnU
11-07-2008, 05:43 PM
They dissapeared like the Chargers chances of making the playoffs...:coffee:

Wow, talk about sipping the kool aid. . .:coffee:

As for the rest, I love just all of you get your dander up and throw me a slew of posts. I feel like a puppeteer!:D

Gamechanger
11-07-2008, 06:51 PM
this is still some good stuff

i'mma grab some :pop2: and LAWL

BroncoJoe
11-07-2008, 06:57 PM
Wow, talk about sipping the kool aid. . .:coffee:

As for the rest, I love just all of you get your dander up and throw me a slew of posts. I feel like a puppeteer!:D

Yes, I've heard you like a hand up your ass.

Slick
11-07-2008, 08:31 PM
Wow, talk about sipping the kool aid. . .:coffee:

As for the rest, I love just all of you get your dander up and throw me a slew of posts. I feel like a puppeteer!:D

So you finally reveal your M.O. You littered another forum with your, let's see what kind of rise I can get out of these clowns threads so badly, I had to put you on ignore over there. The kiddies fall for it, and I'm sure you're grinning from ear to ear.

When you actually talk football, I enjoy your posts.

Take a page from San Luis' or Ride the Lightening's playbook.

SeeingRed
11-07-2008, 08:48 PM
I can't help it if Denver is too lame a city to host the big one.:bored:

Are you an idiot? Do you not see where they host SuperBowls and why? Pheonix? San Diego? Tampa? Miami? Indoors? Do you not see a pattern?

Northman
11-07-2008, 10:48 PM
Take a page from San Luis' or Ride the Lightening's playbook.


He could never grasp that kind of class man. :lol:

BoltsOwnU
11-10-2008, 01:23 PM
So you finally reveal your M.O. You littered another forum with your, let's see what kind of rise I can get out of these clowns threads so badly, I had to put you on ignore over there. The kiddies fall for it, and I'm sure you're grinning from ear to ear.

When you actually talk football, I enjoy your posts.

Take a page from San Luis' or Ride the Lightening's playbook.

I don't post for the purpose of inciting responses. However, when it happens, I can't help but sit back and laugh at the occassional flurries of drivel. What can ya do?:confused:

BeefStew25
11-10-2008, 01:28 PM
I don't post for the purpose of inciting responses. However, when it happens, I can't help but sit back and laugh at the occassional flurries of drivel. What can ya do?:confused:

POst some more pics of those chicks you hang out with to hide your homo feelings.

BoltsOwnU
11-11-2008, 06:32 PM
POst some more pics of those chicks you hang out with to hide your homo feelings.

Man, this post garned 5 thumbs up? Way to go Denver.:confused:

I guess this passes for wit amongst the inbred.:coffee:

SeeingRed
11-11-2008, 06:54 PM
Five thumbs up = you making an ass out of yourself.

BoltsOwnU
11-12-2008, 12:56 PM
Five thumbs up = you making an ass out of yourself.

Five thumbs up and the word "ass" all in one post? You must be very excited indeed.:D

turftoad
11-12-2008, 01:06 PM
Jay Cutler Named AFC Offensive Player of the Week by TheSportsGuru on Nov 11, 2008 5:18 PM MST in News

Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler will be named AFC Offensive Player of the Week for games played during the 10th week (Nov. 6-10) of the 2008 season, the National Football League informed the Broncos on Tuesday.

Cutler's selection as AFC Offensive Player of the Week is the first such award of his three-year NFL career. It marks his second league-issued honor this season-He was named AFC Offensive Player of the Month for September.

During the Broncos' 34-30 win at Cleveland on Thursday night, Cutler tied for the third-highest single-game passing yardage total (447) in Denver history and registered his fifth-career fourth-quarter comeback. He helped Denver overcome a 23-13 deficit in the fourth quarter and finished the game completing 24-of-42 passes for 447 yards with three touchdowns and one interception for a 107.9 passer rating.

Cutler, who accounted for 476 yards of offense (447 pass, 29 rush) against Cleveland, also helped the Broncos tie for their second-highest single-game yardage total (564) in club history.

In nine games this season, Cutler has totaled an AFC-best 2,616 passing yards that rank third in the NFL. His five 300-yard passing games this year tie Denver's single-season franchise record and lead his conference while tying for second in the league.

Cutler is the second Bronco to be named AFC Offensive Player of the Week this year with wide receiver Brandon Marshall earning that honor for his Week 2 performance against San Diego. He is the first Denver quarterback to receive the award since 2005 (Jake Plummer, Week 8 vs. Philadelphia).

His selection marks the 43rd time a Broncos player has received AFC Offensive Player of the Week honors since the award was initiated by the NFL in 1984.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-12-2008, 01:46 PM
Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler and wide receiver Eddie Royal are featured on NFL.com’s weekly performance polls for Week 10.

For the third time this year Cutler has been nominated for the Fed Ex Air Player of the Week.

For Jay: http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerTy...air-and-ground

For the second time this season Royal is one of three choices for the Diet Pepsi Rookie of the Week.

For Eddie: http://www.nfl.com/partner/story?id=...erType=rookies

Fans can vote for one player in each category on NFL.com/FedEx from 9 a.m. ET on Tuesday through 1 p.m. ET on Friday to determine the FedEx Air & Ground NFL Players of the Week. The winners will be announced Friday evening on NFL.com.

Northman
11-12-2008, 01:57 PM
But wait...didnt you guys get the memo? Cutler sucks according to bandwagon fan Bolt. lol

Denver Native (Carol)
11-12-2008, 05:02 PM
But wait...didnt you guys get the memo? Cutler sucks according to bandwagon fan Bolt. lol

Apparently, the NFL did not get the memo!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

BoltsOwnU
11-12-2008, 05:06 PM
Apparently, the NFL did not get the memo!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

Oh my, the Fedex Air Player of the Week?!? Gosh, let's just admit him to Canton now. Although PR owns that one twice this season too, along with a better passer rating, more TD's, fewer interceptions. . .etc. etc.

Wait, now is your chance to point to our respective win/loss records to bolster your feeble argument, although all of you claimed that was an irrelevant consideration to this discussion for the last two seasons. . .:rolleyes:

:D

BroncoJoe
11-12-2008, 05:07 PM
Phyllis sucks.

that is all.

SeeingRed
11-12-2008, 05:08 PM
If you're going to try to compare Rivers to Cutler like you did VJ to Marshall, you will get pwned.

Bronco Bible
11-12-2008, 05:42 PM
Phyllis sucks.

that is all.

I think this ^ sums it all up:beer:

broncosfanscott
11-12-2008, 06:35 PM
I can't help it if Denver is too lame a city to host the big one.:bored:

Since the city of San Diego doesn't want to build the Chargers a new stadium, they won't be hosting anymore Super Bowls.

broncobryce
11-12-2008, 06:39 PM
Oh my, the Fedex Air Player of the Week?!? Gosh, let's just admit him to Canton now. Although PR owns that one twice this season too, along with a better passer rating, more TD's, fewer interceptions. . .etc. etc.

Wait, now is your chance to point to our respective win/loss records to bolster your feeble argument, although all of you claimed that was an irrelevant consideration to this discussion for the last two seasons. . .:rolleyes:

:D

Guess what genius, it's not Fedex Air Player of the week (although he'll probably win that too). It' AFC offensive player of the week. Burn too many brain cells trying to figure out why your team sucks?

bengaaaaals1688
11-12-2008, 11:25 PM
Guess what genius, it's not Fedex Air Player of the week (although he'll probably win that too). It' AFC offensive player of the week. Burn too many brain cells trying to figure out why your team sucks?

Doesn't change the fact that statistically Rivers is playing better than Cutler is. I dislike Rivers, and think Cutler is a great QB, but the facts are the facts.

Northman
11-13-2008, 12:35 AM
Doesn't change the fact that statistically Rivers is playing better than Cutler is. I dislike Rivers, and think Cutler is a great QB, but the facts are the facts.


Just like the fact that Rivers actually has a running back whereas Jay doesnt so he has to launch the ball ten more times than Rivers. Like you said, facts are facts. :beer:

BoltsOwnU
11-13-2008, 11:39 AM
Just like the fact that Rivers actually has a running back whereas Jay doesnt so he has to launch the ball ten more times than Rivers. Like you said, facts are facts. :beer:

Well, LT hasn't exactly been performing this season. Normally I'd agree, but we've scraped to put up any rushing yardage at all in all but a few games.

Hey don't sweat it, regardless of which team/qb wins this division, they'll get bounced out of the playoffs faster than Paris Hilton at a debutante party.

GEM
11-13-2008, 11:46 AM
Well, LT hasn't exactly been performing this season. Normally I'd agree, but we've scraped to put up any rushing yardage at all in all but a few games.

Hey don't sweat it, regardless of which team/qb wins this division, they'll get bounced out of the playoffs faster than Paris Hilton at a debutante party.

Yea...Sproles hasn't helped you guys out in the running department at all.

turftoad
11-13-2008, 11:51 AM
Well, LT hasn't exactly been performing this season. Normally I'd agree, but we've scraped to put up any rushing yardage at all in all but a few games.

Hey don't sweat it, regardless of which team/qb wins this division, they'll get bounced out of the playoffs faster than Paris Hilton at a debutante party.

Well, LT is still a threat and defenses have to look at it that way. Play action to LT still has to be addresses. Rivers still has that.

Cutler doesn't.

MOtorboat
11-13-2008, 12:05 PM
Well, LT hasn't exactly been performing this season. Normally I'd agree, but we've scraped to put up any rushing yardage at all in all but a few games.

Hey don't sweat it, regardless of which team/qb wins this division, they'll get bounced out of the playoffs faster than Paris Hilton at a debutante party.

Haven't you figured out that you have no real ammo yet? :confused:

And Clay, WTF are you saluting him for?

bengaaaaals1688
11-13-2008, 12:05 PM
Just like the fact that Rivers actually has a running back whereas Jay doesnt so he has to launch the ball ten more times than Rivers. Like you said, facts are facts. :beer:

So you are ignoring the fact that the Broncos are ranked 7 spots above the Chargers in rushing?? As long as we are ignoring where teams are, the Bengals actually have the best offense in the league right now, but because of the fact that that team has a player and this other team has 3, Carson Palmer can't complete a pass.

bengaaaaals1688
11-13-2008, 12:06 PM
Haven't you figured out that you have no real ammo yet? :confused:

And Clay, WTF are you saluting him for?

Haven't you figured out that Rivers is playing better yet??

BoltsOwnU
11-13-2008, 12:38 PM
Yea...Sproles hasn't helped you guys out in the running department at all.

Bengalssssss beat me to it. You guys have been outrushing us I'm sorry to say.

As for play action to LT, we've essentially forgotten how to do that. Look no further than the plethora of 3rd and 2's we've run from the #@(*$)#(!! SHOTGUN!!! Unsuccessfully too I might add. Our field goal kicker is getting wayyyy too much red zone work because of it.:mad:

BroncoJoe
11-13-2008, 12:43 PM
Bengalssssss beat me to it. You guys have been outrushing us I'm sorry to say.

As for play action to LT, we've essentially forgotten how to do that. Look no further than the plethora of 3rd and 2's we've run from the #@(*$)#(!! SHOTGUN!!! Unsuccessfully too I might add. Our field goal kicker is getting wayyyy too much red zone work because of it.:mad:

BOU, that's a good thing.

Gamechanger
11-13-2008, 04:06 PM
meh, hell i'd love my team to have some kind of running game, we're gettin better with Play Action but our feature back can't get any help up front

at least we got the best red-zone offense, a good recieving corp. and a Canton-Bound QB other than that we would be...horse shit....ehh

Northman
11-16-2008, 06:42 PM
Weak Stream- 15/26 159 0 TD 2 INT

Cutler- 19/27 216 1 TD 0 INT


Cutler > Weak Stream

BroncoBJ
11-16-2008, 07:18 PM
Does anyone actually think Rivers is the better QB? :lol:
I thought people were joking when they compared him to Jay.

Northman
11-17-2008, 12:21 AM
Does anyone actually think Rivers is the better QB? :lol:
I thought people were joking when they compared him to Jay.

Chargers believe anything. Dont forget these are the same clowns who thought Leaf was the holy messiah to lead them to the promise land. :lol:

BroncoJoe
11-17-2008, 12:23 AM
BOU won't show his ugly face and hairy armpits around here for a while.

MOtorboat
11-17-2008, 07:43 AM
BOU won't show his ugly face and hairy armpits around here for a while.

Doubt it.

Gamechanger
11-17-2008, 08:05 AM
BOU won't show his ugly face and hairy armpits around here for a while.

damn it....I wanted to talk smack....oh well.....coward :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Northman
11-17-2008, 10:31 AM
BOU won't show his ugly face and hairy armpits around here for a while.

Typical Troll. :tsk:

BoltsOwnU
11-17-2008, 01:06 PM
BOU won't show his ugly face and hairy armpits around here for a while.

LOL I'm right here Squirt. Sorry everyone, I actually have a life so I didn't race to my keyboard after the game yesterday.

In any event, Rivers did not have a good game, but Cutler wouldn't have fared much better against that D in Pitt under those conditions.

As for the rest of you little pederasts leaping into the fray after a Bolt loss, try to bring something germane to the thread, otherwise, go back to playing with your wii's.:D

Day1BroncoFan
11-17-2008, 01:18 PM
LOL I'm right here Squirt. Sorry everyone, I actually have a life so I didn't race to my keyboard after the game yesterday.

In any event, Rivers did not have a good game, but Cutler wouldn't have fared much better against that D in Pitt under those conditions.

As for the rest of you little pederasts leaping into the fray after a Bolt loss, try to bring something germane to the thread, otherwise, go back to playing with your wii's.:D

As usual, excuses and name calling. :rolleyes:

MileHighWrath
11-17-2008, 02:02 PM
The only thing germane that need be brought to this thread is a simple statement of fact:

chargers SUCK.

Northman
11-17-2008, 02:35 PM
The only thing germane that need be brought to this thread is a simple statement of fact:

chargers SUCK.

end discussion. :lol:

BoltsOwnU
11-17-2008, 03:31 PM
The only thing germane that need be brought to this thread is a simple statement of fact:

chargers SUCK.

For the moment, I'm almost inclined to agree.:frusty:

sanluis
11-17-2008, 03:34 PM
For the moment, I'm almost inclined to agree.:frusty:

Facts are facts. As of right now we do suck. :tsk: 4-6 would be closer to last place in other divisions.

claymore
11-17-2008, 03:42 PM
end discussion. :lol:

Go ahead and close the thread Anubis, I called Tned, and he said that there isnt any other proof needed here.

Dreadnought
12-01-2008, 02:18 PM
I think its time to revisit this comparison. Bolt fans, the ball is in your court. Care to tell us all again how Philip Rivers is a better QB than Jay Cutler? If not, why not?

Northman
12-01-2008, 02:25 PM
You wont find Bolt around for a while. Im sure a classy guy like Sal will come in though.

BroncoJoe
12-01-2008, 02:26 PM
:cricket:

BoltsOwnU
12-02-2008, 04:02 PM
Well, let's see. . .

maybe I should just link to all those comparison threads from the last two seasons when the donks were flailing but people still thought Cutler better. . .:D

topscribe
12-02-2008, 04:09 PM
Well, let's see. . .

maybe I should just link to all those comparison threads from the last two seasons when the donks were flailing but people still thought Cutler better. . .:D
.


Well, I know of one thing Phyllis is better at than Cutler:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Goofies/rivers_medium.jpg




In fact, the whole bunch of dolts:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Goofies/Crybaby.jpg


-----

BroncoJoe
12-02-2008, 04:55 PM
Cutler will win a championship before Cry-me-a-Rivers.

Gare-On-Teed.

NightTrainLayne
12-02-2008, 05:05 PM
Well, let's see. . .

maybe I should just link to all those comparison threads from the last two seasons when the donks were flailing but people still thought Cutler better. . .:D

And in doing so, you will link to your arguments to the contrary. :lol:

Dreadnought
12-02-2008, 05:14 PM
Cutler will win a championship before Cry-me-a-Rivers.

Gare-On-Teed.

Agreed fully. I see Rivers slowly morphing into Neil O'Donnell. He'll play for years, have numbers that look decent at first glance, and just never get it done anyway.

BoltsOwnU
12-02-2008, 05:18 PM
And in doing so, you will link to your arguments to the contrary. :lol:

No no, I just do a quick find and replace to interpose the names. Then I can use Donk-logic just like all of you! :D

bengaaaaals1688
12-02-2008, 05:22 PM
No no, I just do a quick find and replace to interpose the names. Then I can use Donk-logic just like all of you! :D

You would still, in the end, be contradicting yourself if you did in fact argue against that same logic last season. If you use logic that you previously called ridiculous and argued against, ONLY because you now need to use it to defend something or somebody YOU like, it makes you a hypocrite and it destroys any credibility that could have existed in your defense.

However, you can come up with a way to defend it while still sticking with your own parameters and then you can at the very least be given credit for sticking by your player and not making stuff up.

BroncoJoe
12-02-2008, 05:26 PM
No no, I just do a quick find and replace to interpose the names. Then I can use Donk-logic just like all of you! :D

Let's review what "Charger" fans are saying about Phyllis:


I never thought I'd get to this point...I've backed AJ Smith from day 1 and I felt like keeping Rivers was the right move at the time the change was made...but I'm starting to realize that letting Brees walk was the biggest mistake this franchise has made in recent years. I feel strongly now that we would have won at least one superbowl in 2006 with Brees at QB. Brees was a consumate team player and never would have been lobbying the head coach to re-design an offense that was working beautifully just to help inflate his stats and his ego. Brees never had a problem taking a back seat to LT as the superstar on this team. Rivers isn't a bad QB, but he is no superstar, and I don't think he is respected by anyone on the team as a true leader the way Brees and LT have been. IMO his lofty passer rating is largely due to the following:

1. Defenses continue to scheme against LT and the running game first and foremost in spite of the fact that our Oline can't push a group of cheerleaders out of the way, much less defensive linemen.

2. Norv has completely restructured this offense to run the offense through Rivers and the passing game and have cut the balls of this team in the process. We have taken away the bread and butter designed running plays that work and have replaced them with some throw in running plays to keep teams off balance when we aren't passing....these don't work with a poor blocking OLine unit that isn't committed to giving everything to block in the running game and establish a rhythm. We don't control the clock. We don't show any physicality. It's all finesse...and it's garbage largely designed to puff up Rivers' stat line.

3. Rivers has some of the best weapons of any NFL QB at his disposal in the passing game...It's hard NOT to succeed in this offense for any QB with above average talent. He has almost zero mobility and doesn't buy a lot of time for himself in the pocket. If the designed play isn't working, it's dead before it began....We should never be relying on this QB to put the game on his shoulders week in and week out.

Watching the game today, it was amazing to see how emotionally immature Rivers still is. When things are going bad, he completely implodes on the field and on the sidelines. People want to sit and analyze LT...but Rivers is the guy that EVERYONE on the team is staying away from on the bench. Matt Ryan looked like the veteran and Rivers the rookie today. Rivers has had so many gaffes this season in key situations that have cost games that he has to be among the most un-clutch QB's in the NFL.

Furthermore, the Falcons are running their offense the way the Chargers used to....to great success...They got rid of their soft OLinemen in favor of tough road graders (note that we were quick to pick up one of their castoffs who was deemed to be too soft in the running game but a nice pass blocker)....and the Falcons pound the ball continuously....even when for most of the game Turner was averaging under 4 ypc....but they continue to hammer and mix in the passing game strategically. This is what the Chargers would do in 2006 when the heavy lifting was done with the running game and the NFL's MVP. The 2008 Norv / Rivers version is a JOKE and our offense has been turned into a soft pussified unit.

I will always love the Chargers as long as they are in SD...but it is getting awfully hard to watch them under Norv..putting the fate of our offense on Rivers and his shot put arm. Another season of this will be almost unbearable.


http://www.bolttalk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16620

topscribe
12-02-2008, 05:37 PM
:popcorn:

-----

BroncoJoe
12-02-2008, 05:39 PM
:popcorn:

-----

Eh - might as well head to bed. BOU has nothing.

Day1BroncoFan
12-02-2008, 05:49 PM
Usually the gutless Broncos manage enough heart to make it to week 5 or so before totally coming apart and playing down to their skill and lack of potential. However, this season, it looks like it's happening more suddenly,and earlier than it typically does. (Maybe that since the refs can't hand you an unearned win more than twice in one season?)

Good luck finishing at even .500. The annual slide into sub-mediocrity, hallmark of the Denver franchise since Elway, has begun. . .:beer:

Oh yeah, nice game for the 'Turds too. What a lovely day indeed.

I guess the slide did start but not for the team you were hoping.

TXBRONC
12-02-2008, 08:34 PM
Well, let's see. . .

maybe I should just link to all those comparison threads from the last two seasons when the donks were flailing but people still thought Cutler better. . .:D


Put your money where your mouth is and go for it. Because in my opinion he is the better quarterback. :coffee:

BoltsOwnU
12-03-2008, 05:53 PM
Let's review what "Charger" fans are saying about Phyllis:



http://www.bolttalk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16620

One misguided fan perhaps. Really, as if there were plenty of Donks calling for Cutler's head (rightfully so) at various points last season.

And for Day1, yes our slide was not pretty this year, but it's just not the tradition it is in Denver. Face it, we aren't playing well, but really, neither is Denver. In this joke of a division, neither team should be talking much.:coffee:

Day1BroncoFan
12-03-2008, 05:58 PM
One misguided fan perhaps. Really, as if there were plenty of Donks calling for Cutler's head (rightfully so) at various points last season.

And for Day1, yes our slide was not pretty this year, but it's just not the tradition it is in Denver. Face it, we aren't playing well, but really, neither is Denver. In this joke of a division, neither team should be talking much.:coffee:

I'm not talking near as much as you are. How does the crow taste? You're the one making the rediculous claims about how you will do so much better than us this year.

MileHighWrath
12-03-2008, 06:44 PM
Watch out for those raiders tomorrow night, they might just reach out and bitch slap you a good one. But then again, the chargers aren't a young and inexperienced team that can so easily look past a division rival, but on the other hand, they suck so .... hell anythings possible.

You know that when your team is 4-8 and you talk smack you look like a fool. I'm just saying...

Lonestar
12-03-2008, 06:51 PM
One misguided fan perhaps. Really, as if there were plenty of Donks calling for Cutler's head (rightfully so) at various points last season.

And for Day1, yes our slide was not pretty this year, but it's just not the tradition it is in Denver. Face it, we aren't playing well, but really, neither is Denver. In this joke of a division, neither team should be talking much.:coffee:

so what do you think is going to happen to norv?

topscribe
12-03-2008, 06:52 PM
so what do you think is going to happen to norv?

They're going to make him call Schottenheimer and beg him to come back . . .



. . . at gunpoint . . .



. . . him and Smith . . .



-----

topscribe
12-03-2008, 07:03 PM
One misguided fan perhaps. Really, as if there were plenty of Donks calling for Cutler's head (rightfully so) at various points last season.

And for Day1, yes our slide was not pretty this year, but it's just not the tradition it is in Denver. Face it, we aren't playing well, but really, neither is Denver. In this joke of a division, neither team should be talking much.:coffee:

There was no point where anybody would rightfully call for Cutler's head last
year. That was effectively his rookie season, and he outplayed every one of
the illuminaries (Elway, Montana, Unitas, etc.), except Marino, in their
respective first seasons.

As far as talking, the Broncos beat N.O., Tampa, Cleveland (when Quinn was
healthy), Atlanta, and NYJ, the latter three in their own houses.

The dolts have beaten only one of those teams, and that was at home. In
fact, the Broncos have won more games against quality teams than the dolts
have altogether.

It must really be depressing, rooting for a bunch of 4-8 crybabies with no
heart . . . :cool:

-----

King87
12-03-2008, 09:25 PM
They're going to make him call Schottenheimer and beg him to come back . . .



. . . at gunpoint . . .



. . . him and Smith . . .



-----
They fired a HOF coach. How in the hell do you fire a HOF coach? Was it his fault that McCree dropped an INT on fourth down and fumbled?

They fired a HOF coach for an above average coordinator, that they hired as a HEAD COACH!??!?!??!


To be fair, Rivers has had more good stat years, won playoff games, and put up nice numbers while LT is playing like crap. He is good.

The ceiling for Cutler is higher in my opinion. By a very large amount.

GEM
12-04-2008, 01:06 PM
One misguided fan perhaps. Really, as if there were plenty of Donks calling for Cutler's head (rightfully so) at various points last season.

And for Day1, yes our slide was not pretty this year, but it's just not the tradition it is in Denver. Face it, we aren't playing well, but really, neither is Denver. In this joke of a division, neither team should be talking much.:coffee:

Tradition? You wanna talk tradition? The Chargers tradition is sitting in the cellar for 40 some years, then having 2-3 good seasons and thinking that the 40 previous seasons should be forgotten.

The difference between our teams is we are young, we have a crapload of injuries and rookies stepping up. Your team on the other hand has a crapload of talent and are squandering their window. The Broncos weren't expected to do a whole lot this year, while the Chargers were expected to go all the way.

GEM
12-04-2008, 01:11 PM
They fired a HOF coach. How in the hell do you fire a HOF coach? Was it his fault that McCree dropped an INT on fourth down and fumbled?

They fired a HOF coach for an above average coordinator, that they hired as a HEAD COACH!??!?!??!


To be fair, Rivers has had more good stat years, won playoff games, and put up nice numbers while LT is playing like crap. He is good.

The ceiling for Cutler is higher in my opinion. By a very large amount.

I was listening to Dan Reeves last night and he said that the problem in SD isn't all the coach. He said Norv is a good coach....:laugh: Yea, when? :laugh: EVERYONE, except SD and it's fans, knew this would happen. We were all told that it didn't matter who was coaching there. That they had enough talent to overcome an average to below average coach. Talent, but no heart will do that to any team.

King87
12-04-2008, 11:12 PM
Out of all the major sports, the head coach of a football team does the most, and means the most to his team.

I am a better head coach than Norv Turner.

SeeingRed
12-05-2008, 08:57 AM
Go fix the Bengals then.

haroldthebarrel
12-05-2008, 09:03 AM
Go fix the Bengals then.

The Bengals or Lions should hire Schottenheimer.

He might not give them a playoff win, but he will make them play hard, he will find a lot of talent in the trenches and he wont let them quit.

I think Schottenheimer and Parcells both are masters at rebuilding a franchise and great motivators. And both may not be the genius x and os guys in the universe, but that is why you have coordinators.

bengaaaaals1688
12-05-2008, 12:56 PM
The Bengals or Lions should hire Schottenheimer.

He might not give them a playoff win, but he will make them play hard, he will find a lot of talent in the trenches and he wont let them quit.

I think Schottenheimer and Parcells both are masters at rebuilding a franchise and great motivators. And both may not be the genius x and os guys in the universe, but that is why you have coordinators.

First Mike Brown needs to be shot so that the HC can actually have some say, and we need to get a GM. Then, and only then, can this team be rebuilt correctly.

Lonestar
12-05-2008, 01:07 PM
If Y'all want to talk about the bungals start a thread on it..


lets get

:focus:

Gee, what happened to all the Cutler vs. Rivers threads

bengaaaaals1688
12-05-2008, 01:18 PM
If Y'all want to talk about the bungals start a thread on it..


lets get

:focus:

Gee, what happened to all the Cutler vs. Rivers threads

The Bengals are ALWAYS the topic dammit.

Northman
12-05-2008, 01:20 PM
The Bengals are ALWAYS the topic dammit.

Of a good joke. :D

bengaaaaals1688
12-05-2008, 01:21 PM
Of a good joke. :D

Oh yeah?? Say a good joke involving the Bengals, if I don't laugh, I shall slay you.:coffee:

Dreadnought
12-05-2008, 01:29 PM
Of a good joke. :D

Or an episode of C.O.P.S.

Sorry, back to the main point, which is that the Chargers are screwed. They made the wrong bet when they dumped Brees and kept Rivers. Praise be. If they had been smart we would have faced Brees twice a year, every year. Now they are like the guy who had to pick between two girls, and realizes deep inside that he made a terrible and irreversible error, when he see's the other girl happily and contentedly married, glowing and beautiful, while his own gets irritible, cranky, pouty, and is showing the first signs of the serious mental instability yet to come. He tells others, even himself, that he made the right call, but deep inside...

...a slow realization, dark and unspoken, that he has screwed his life but good. And he cannot go back. Ever. That is the life of the Charger fan, and that is what BOU and his dwindling number of fellows has to live with.

Be kind, my fellow posters. Have some pity in your hearts for BOU.

Lonestar
12-05-2008, 01:34 PM
If Y'all want to talk about the bungals start a thread on it..


lets get

:focus:

Gee, what happened to all the Cutler vs. Rivers threads

one more time

:focus:

or start a bungals thread..

BoltsOwnU
12-05-2008, 07:31 PM
Or an episode of C.O.P.S.

Sorry, back to the main point, which is that the Chargers are screwed. They made the wrong bet when they dumped Brees and kept Rivers. Praise be. If they had been smart we would have faced Brees twice a year, every year. Now they are like the guy who had to pick between two girls, and realizes deep inside that he made a terrible and irreversible error, when he see's the other girl happily and contentedly married, glowing and beautiful, while his own gets irritible, cranky, pouty, and is showing the first signs of the serious mental instability yet to come. He tells others, even himself, that he made the right call, but deep inside...

...a slow realization, dark and unspoken, that he has screwed his life but good. And he cannot go back. Ever. That is the life of the Charger fan, and that is what BOU and his dwindling number of fellows has to live with.

Be kind, my fellow posters. Have some pity in your hearts for BOU.

Well, let's see, Since starting, Rivers has pretty much owned the Donks. Something Brees seems to have problems doing. In fact, without Hochuli's help, he'd still be owning the Donks. I've no need for pity, I'm quite pleased with our QB.

Gonna be fun watching the donks fold down the stretch. . .:D

Dreadnought
12-05-2008, 08:08 PM
Well, let's see, Since starting, Rivers has pretty much owned the Donks. Something Brees seems to have problems doing. In fact, without Hochuli's help, he'd still be owning the Donks. I've no need for pity, I'm quite pleased with our QB.

Gonna be fun watching the donks fold down the stretch. . .:D

Yep, all the signs are there, as I suspected :tsk:. We're here for you brother; AJ Smith flubbed this one, and your franchise is looking into the abyss. We would have to have hearts of stone not to feel some pity for loyal Charger fans now.

I'm not sure that in the big picture sweeping the mediocre '06 ands '07 Broncos was an accomplishment for the ages, but if that satisfies the remaining Bolts fans then bless you. Just don't count on NFL films commemorating that feat with a hilight DVD.

We take what happiness we can in this life after all.

bengaaaaals1688
12-06-2008, 01:31 AM
Well, let's see, Since starting, Rivers has pretty much owned the Donks. Something Brees seems to have problems doing. In fact, without Hochuli's help, he'd still be owning the Donks. I've no need for pity, I'm quite pleased with our QB.

Gonna be fun watching the donks fold down the stretch. . .:D

You may possibly in some form be able to make an argument for Rivers being better than Cutler, but better than Brees?? Not a chance in hell... Brees makes Rivers look like a high school QB.

topscribe
12-06-2008, 01:33 AM
Well, let's see, Since starting, Rivers has pretty much owned the Donks. Something Brees seems to have problems doing. In fact, without Hochuli's help, he'd still be owning the Donks. I've no need for pity, I'm quite pleased with our QB.

Gonna be fun watching the donks fold down the stretch. . .:D

I guess you're hoping you can see that next.

You've already watched the dolts fold . . . up the stretch . . .


Oh yes, and Hochuli had nothing to do with how Cutler owned the dolts in two
plays straight to beat your dolts at the end of the game. Actually three: he
was about to complete a pass to a wide-open Graham in the end zone when
he dropped the ball.

Nonetheless, it hasn't escaped me about how you are still whining and making
excuses for the dolts' losses. That has become typical for dolts and their fans.
It's gotten to where I would be surprised if I didn't see that. You can't be
gracious in victory or defeat . . .

-----

King87
12-06-2008, 01:35 AM
Go fix the Bengals then.

I didn't say my name was Jesus.

SeeingRed
12-06-2008, 09:07 AM
If Rivers was THAT much better than Cutler, why hasn't Rivers won games for SD this year? They've got a better team with so much better receivers. Right? So why can't Rivers make the magic happen? Why can't they win games against teams like Atlanta, New Orleans, the Jets, etc? Yeah, Rivers is having a good year STATISTICALLY, but, in the end, he still is quarterbacking a LOSING team in a SHITTY division.

haroldthebarrel
12-06-2008, 09:13 AM
If Rivers was THAT much better than Cutler, why hasn't Rivers won games for SD this year? They've got a better team with so much better receivers. Right? So why can't Rivers make the magic happen? Why can't they win games against teams like Atlanta, New Orleans, the Jets, etc? Yeah, Rivers is having a good year STATISTICALLY, but, in the end, he still is quarterbacking a LOSING team in a SHITTY division.

Rivers is becoming a good qb. But Cutler leads since he has managed to singlehandedly lead his team to wins. In Denver it is as Cutler goes, so go the team. In SD it is as Tomlinson goes so goes the team. (and their defense).

It will be interesting to see what happens to him without Norv. Almost all former pupils of his has dropped off when he went. Alex Smith looked at times like a real qb last year. Now he is back to sucking.

In the end I think it is a great competitive nature of having Rivers and Cutler really going against eachother. Makes up for great stories and great games, and for the unbiased observer the SD-Denver game must have been great to watch.

SeeingRed
12-06-2008, 09:50 AM
Rivers is good. He makes good decisions, is accurate, and isn't wreckless with the ball. But, he's not Cutler.

slim
12-06-2008, 09:56 AM
Rivers is good. He makes good decisions, is accurate, and isn't wreckless with the ball. But, he's not Cutler.

He is also fun to shower with, from what I hear.

Lonestar
12-06-2008, 10:21 AM
If Rivers was THAT much better than Cutler, why hasn't Rivers won games for SD this year? They've got a better team with so much better receivers. Right? So why can't Rivers make the magic happen? Why can't they win games against teams like Atlanta, New Orleans, the Jets, etc? Yeah, Rivers is having a good year STATISTICALLY, but, in the end, he still is quarterbacking a LOSING team in a SHITTY division.

Same can be said about Jay why did we lose to OAK KC etc.. Hmmmmm it is because while they are BOTH great QB's they do not actually make the catches, run the correct routes or tote the rock or make the blocks on the LOS.. They both need help getting it done....

BTW neither of them play defense..

If anything Jay has an advantage here with the better pass protecting OLINE..

I'm not sure what everyone is getting their dander up about someone calling Rivers a pretty good QB.. Most teams in the league would love to have either of them for the future..

SeeingRed
12-06-2008, 10:29 AM
No one is arguing that Rivers isn't good. Simply put, he is not better than Cutler. that's the argument.

slim
12-06-2008, 10:30 AM
Same can be said about Jay why did we lose to OAK KC etc.. Hmmmmm it is because while they are BOTH great QB's they do not actually make the catches, run the correct routes or tote the rock or make the blocks on the LOS.. They both need help getting it done....

BTW neither of them play defense..

If anything Jay has an advantage here with the better pass protecting OLINE..

I'm not sure what everyone is getting their dander up about someone calling Rivers a pretty good QB.. Most teams in the league would love to have either of them for the future..

I guess you don't understand how the smack forum works. :noidea:

Lonestar
12-06-2008, 10:37 AM
I guess you don't understand how the smack forum works. :noidea:

Sorry forgot we were in smack I rarely come in here except to MOD.....

King87
12-06-2008, 01:26 PM
If Rivers was THAT much better than Cutler, why hasn't Rivers won games for SD this year? They've got a better team with so much better receivers. Right? So why can't Rivers make the magic happen? Why can't they win games against teams like Atlanta, New Orleans, the Jets, etc? Yeah, Rivers is having a good year STATISTICALLY, but, in the end, he still is quarterbacking a LOSING team in a SHITTY division.

His wideouts are overrated. LT and Gates are not pulling their weight. Their defense is inconsistent. Rivers is a pretty good QB. He is currently the better QB at the moment.

The ceiling for talent and ability is much higher for Cutler than it is for Rivers. Rivers reminds me of a young Jeff Garcia minus the scrambling ability. That is fine, one could argue that Garcia would be a borderline HOF candidate had he started his career in the NFL.

However, Cutler reminds me of no one. And that is not meant to be a slight. He has one of the best arms the game has ever seen. Now, before we go any further, realize that Jeff Blake has one of the best arms in NFL history. That by itself means nothing.

Cutler also has good movement in the pocket. He can avoid the sack pretty well. He throws well on the run. His mechanics......make baby jesus cry. Mechanics are also the most overrated part of a QB's game. Yes, in the long run it will cost him and the Broncos. However, Brett Farve has thrown the most INTS of all time, but because of his high amount of passes his number is inflated. If you take that number and look at it by how many INT passes he throws per pass, it makes me breathe a little easier. That factors in a lot, in my opinion as to why his INTs seem to come up a lot.

He has really good field vision. To make those crazy throws you sure as hell have to see the field.

Does this mean he is a lock for the HOF? Nah, Jeff George could be brought up as a guy who should be in the HOF, had all the talent to be in the hall, blah blah blah.

However, as a betting man.....

bengaaaaals1688
12-06-2008, 02:59 PM
His wideouts are overrated. LT and Gates are not pulling their weight. Their defense is inconsistent. Rivers is a pretty good QB. He is currently the better QB at the moment.

The ceiling for talent and ability is much higher for Cutler than it is for Rivers. Rivers reminds me of a young Jeff Garcia minus the scrambling ability. That is fine, one could argue that Garcia would be a borderline HOF candidate had he started his career in the NFL.

However, Cutler reminds me of no one. And that is not meant to be a slight. He has one of the best arms the game has ever seen. Now, before we go any further, realize that Jeff Blake has one of the best arms in NFL history. That by itself means nothing.

Cutler also has good movement in the pocket. He can avoid the sack pretty well. He throws well on the run. His mechanics......make baby jesus cry. Mechanics are also the most overrated part of a QB's game. Yes, in the long run it will cost him and the Broncos. However, Brett Farve has thrown the most INTS of all time, but because of his high amount of passes his number is inflated. If you take that number and look at it by how many INT passes he throws per pass, it makes me breathe a little easier. That factors in a lot, in my opinion as to why his INTs seem to come up a lot.

He has really good field vision. To make those crazy throws you sure as hell have to see the field.

Does this mean he is a lock for the HOF? Nah, Jeff George could be brought up as a guy who should be in the HOF, had all the talent to be in the hall, blah blah blah.

However, as a betting man.....

A lot of why LT isn't producing as usual is because of the new softness of the offense. He isn't being given the opportunity to do what he does best, and that is make plays. At the beginning of the season he was hurt, and especially with what he does best having turf toe is a terrible injury.

The rest, however, I agree with you on.

broncobryce
12-06-2008, 06:56 PM
He's not being given the oppurtunity to make plays? Doesn't he get plenty of touches?

King87
12-06-2008, 08:04 PM
A lot of why LT isn't producing as usual is because of the new softness of the offense. He isn't being given the opportunity to do what he does best, and that is make plays. At the beginning of the season he was hurt, and especially with what he does best having turf toe is a terrible injury.

The rest, however, I agree with you on.

LT has been running like a punk all season. Absolutely with no heart at all. An injured toe? Seriously, that is why he sucks? Screw that, Cory Dillon put up good yards with turf toe. He's getting older, is losing power and speed, and is doing less and less. You can see him just flat out not be the same player he was. Watching him run is pathetic. This was the guy who was suppossedly the best RB of all time when he broke the TD record?

The fact is that LT is a hall of fame running back. But, an injured toe does not equate to his lack of production for this entire year. It goes well beyond that.

SeeingRed
12-06-2008, 08:18 PM
If LT is never productive again and he makes the hall but TD doesn't, I'll be furious years from now.

King87
12-06-2008, 08:35 PM
If LT is never productive again and he makes the hall but TD doesn't, I'll be furious years from now.

We have disagreed on this several times, but with such a short body of work, TD is probably not a HOF RB.

I don't even think Gale Sayers belongs to be honest.

SeeingRed
12-06-2008, 09:16 PM
You shut your mouth when you talk to me. Blasphemer.

Dreadnought
12-06-2008, 09:18 PM
We have disagreed on this several times, but with such a short body of work, TD is probably not a HOF RB.


Post Reported - Intentionally dissing Terrell Davis with Malice aforethought :tsk:

MOtorboat
12-06-2008, 09:23 PM
Post Reported - Intentionally dissing Terrell Davis with Malice aforethought :tsk:

I believe that's an immediate 7-day ban, isn't it?

SeeingRed
12-06-2008, 09:24 PM
Ought to be. I mean, after all, what accomplishments have any Bungholes RBs accomplished? Besides Corey Dillon setting the single game record against Denver many moons ago....but AP broke that record last year. Thankfully.

Dreadnought
12-06-2008, 09:30 PM
I believe that's an immediate 7-day ban, isn't it?

If it was possible to virtually tar and feather a poster I'd do it for that Mo. And I though King was such a bright young guy too. Sad, really :tsk:

Dreadnought
12-06-2008, 09:36 PM
Ought to be. I mean, after all, what accomplishments have any Bungholes RBs accomplished? Besides Corey Dillon setting the single game record against Denver many moons ago....but AP broke that record last year. Thankfully.

You forgot Stanley Wilson's accomplishment of missing a Super Bowl by going on a cocaine bender the night before the game.

SeeingRed
12-06-2008, 10:01 PM
Ah yes. Silly of me to forget.

King87
12-07-2008, 01:16 AM
Ought to be. I mean, after all, what accomplishments have any Bungholes RBs accomplished? Besides Corey Dillon setting the single game record against Denver many moons ago....but AP broke that record last year. Thankfully.

Cory Dillon put up big numbers one some of the worst teams of all time. That alone kind of proves that he was a really damn good running back. However, I honestly don't think that he was a HOF RB. But, what does this have to do with Davis?

I hate to break this to you guys, but his career was too short. A hall of fame career is more than a few great years. And that, unfortunately, is the sum of his career.

Oh and Dread, Stan the Cocaine man was a fullback.

Gamechanger
12-07-2008, 02:55 PM
on another note the bungals just gave up today

anyway

:focus:

bengaaaaals1688
12-07-2008, 10:28 PM
LT has been running like a punk all season. Absolutely with no heart at all. An injured toe? Seriously, that is why he sucks? Screw that, Cory Dillon put up good yards with turf toe. He's getting older, is losing power and speed, and is doing less and less. You can see him just flat out not be the same player he was. Watching him run is pathetic. This was the guy who was suppossedly the best RB of all time when he broke the TD record?

The fact is that LT is a hall of fame running back. But, an injured toe does not equate to his lack of production for this entire year. It goes well beyond that.

Corey Dillon was a different type of back. LT relies largely on cut backs and changing direction at a speed much higher than Dillon could ever dream of reaching. He can't cut as hard with turf toe, and therefore needs to slow down and become a different kind of back. That combined with the fact that the Chargers have decided to use a completely different offensive attack, by being more passive and using more finesse, and their OL is no longer attacking the DL for some ungodly reason, and he's gonna have a down year.

As for TD... He was a great RB, but he only played more than a half a season 4 times, and that is not enough to be HOF worthy. His last three years combined for a total of 2 TDs, and a little over 1,000 yards... Again, great RB, but didn't play long enough to get the HOF.

shank
12-07-2008, 10:42 PM
As for TD... He was a great RB, but he only played more than a half a season 4 times, and that is not enough to be HOF worthy. His last three years combined for a total of 2 TDs, and a little over 1,000 yards... Again, great RB, but didn't play long enough to get the HOF.

TD played 10 more games than HOF member Gale Sayers, who had 0 touchdowns in his last two years.

Lonestar
12-07-2008, 10:44 PM
TD played 10 more games than HOF member Gale Sayers, who had 0 touchdowns in his last two years.

and this was a different time in sports and he played for Da Bears..

shank
12-07-2008, 10:53 PM
and this was a different time in sports and he played for Da Bears..

i wasn't saying that he'll get in, i was just rebutting 1688's argument. being a bronco is his biggest hurdle for entree.

Lonestar
12-07-2008, 10:59 PM
i wasn't saying that he'll get in, i was just rebutting 1688's argument. being a bronco is his biggest hurdle for entree.

I was agreeing with you it is unlikely because he was a bronco with virtually no exposure to the voters in the HOF unlike anyone playing in the NFC or east of the Misissippi....

bengaaaaals1688
12-07-2008, 11:09 PM
TD played 10 more games than HOF member Gale Sayers, who had 0 touchdowns in his last two years.

Sayers probably shouldn't be in the HOF, but he played in a time when what he did looked that much more ridiculous, and he did a lot more than just run.

By a purely statistical standpoint neither of them belongs in the HOF, the only reason why Sayers has even a decent argument is because he changed the way a RB plays.

King87
12-08-2008, 01:54 AM
TD played 10 more games than HOF member Gale Sayers, who had 0 touchdowns in his last two years.

And neither should be in the hall of fame.

TD did not have enough great years to justify a HOF induction. Neither did Gale Sayers, people just flipped out over how he was robbed of a career and overreacted.

Northman
12-08-2008, 02:30 AM
I hate to break this to you guys, but his career was too short. A hall of fame career is more than a few great years. And that, unfortunately, is the sum of his career.




Yea, his career was short. So was Gale Sayers and he is in. Furthermore, regardless of how short his time was he is still (10 years later) 1 of only 5 RB's to eclipse 2,000 yds in a season. So with those two things in mind i think (but dont expect) TD to get into the HOF. If getting 2,000 yds was a regular occurance i could see your arguement but since it isnt to this day that a back will do that TD still stands out even over guys like LT. But again, considering how hard it is too get ANY Bronco into the HOF i highly doubt that he will but he most certainly deserves the HOF.

shank
12-08-2008, 08:19 AM
no HOF player had as many TDs in their first 4 years as davis. how is that not a HOF career cut short by injury?

you also have to look at his dominating playoff record: 5.6 YPC, 142.5 YPG, 1.5 TDPG.

he was pure domination when healthy, and should be deserving of HOF honors. but he was a bronco.

Dreadnought
12-08-2008, 09:18 AM
Oh and Dread, Stan the Cocaine man was a fullback.

In Stan's day a Fullback was a running back. In the old Pro Set offense the carries were split pretty evenly, with the Halfback usually the smaller and faster of the two, and the FB usually the between the Tackles guy. Some offenses (e.g. the Lombardi Packers, Browns wwith Jimmy Brown, '90 Chiefs, 70's Dolphins, and so on) the Fullback was the featured guy and the halfback more of a change of pace or pass catching specialist. In 1988 the Bengals leading rusher was the Fullback (Ickey Woods), with James Brooks being the perfect complement for that system at HB. So there.

GEM
12-08-2008, 09:29 AM
TD played 10 more games than HOF member Gale Sayers, who had 0 touchdowns in his last two years.

Great point shank!

On another note....Hillis did the Mile High Salute proud. :salute: :D Great pic!

claymore
12-08-2008, 10:01 AM
Great point shank!

On another note....Hillis did the Mile High Salute proud. :salute: :D Great pic!

That shit gave me goose pimples..... I really thought it was neat. Also, I think it was Bly and Bell, that saluted each other after an IN-COM-PLETE

Zweems56
12-08-2008, 10:05 AM
That shit gave me goose pimples..... I really thought it was neat. Also, I think it was Bly and Bell, that saluted each other after an IN-COM-PLETE

Cool to see some of the "immature" and young team paying some respect to tradition

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 10:05 AM
That shit gave me goose pimples..... I really thought it was neat.

And he did it right, too...he saluted the fans...:salute:

Zweems56
12-08-2008, 10:08 AM
And he did it right, too...he saluted the fans...:salute:

Wasn't always saluting just the fans. You dont remember any of the staredown salutes with Rod and TD, sharpe and td?

claymore
12-08-2008, 10:08 AM
Cool to see some of the "immature" and young team paying some respect to tradition


And he did it right, too...he saluted the fans...:salute:

It was awesome to see some tradition followed. See some freakin excitement from the players. We really opened flat, especially on ST's.... But they showed some maturity, and I was excited about that.

MO, what'd you think of marshall giving the ball to the dude that had his jersey on?

Saw some real love for the fans, thats what Mile High has missed.

Plummers attitude of "Screw the Fans" is hopefully over.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 10:09 AM
MO, what'd you think of marshall giving the ball to the dude that had his jersey on?

Oh, I missed that. That's pretty cool. I must have been celebrating.

Do they still fine players for doing that?

Northman
12-08-2008, 10:12 AM
Yea, i believe it was a young kid in the stands. Good gesture on Bmarsh's part.

claymore
12-08-2008, 10:13 AM
Oh, I missed that. That's pretty cool. I must have been celebrating.

Do they still fine players for doing that?

Yeah its 2k I think. But, thats what makes it all the more special to me, If A player celebrates with the fans, and hands him a ball that essentially cost him 2 grand...... Shit that fan will never speak bad of him or the Broncos.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 10:15 AM
Wasn't always saluting just the fans. You dont remember any of the staredown salutes with Rod and TD, sharpe and td?

Oh, I know, I just really like it when the running back's first thought after scoring a touchdown is saluting the stands, and then turning around and chest-bumping an o-lineman.

Too bad he's out now...:tsk:

claymore
12-08-2008, 10:20 AM
Oh, I missed that. That's pretty cool. I must have been celebrating.

Do they still fine players for doing that?

MO, If you go to the broncos main site, and look at the "Canon Photo Galleries" Its the second from last pic....

Medford Bronco
12-08-2008, 10:20 AM
What is sad is Jerome Bettis will make the HOF and TD will not.

TD is twice the player that Bettis ever was. :coffee: and injuries
shorted what should have been a easy HOF career.

Also his playoff stats should not be discounted either. He has like 7 straight
100 yard games in 97 and 98 when we won back to back Super Bowls.

claymore
12-08-2008, 10:22 AM
What is sad is Jerome Bettis will make the HOF and TD will not.

TD is twice the player that Bettis ever was. :coffee: and injuries
shorted what should have been a easy HOF career.

Also his playoff stats should not be discounted either. He has like 7 straight
100 yard games in 97 and 98 when we won back to back Super Bowls.

:mad:

haroldthebarrel
12-08-2008, 10:24 AM
Yea, his career was short. So was Gale Sayers and he is in. Furthermore, regardless of how short his time was he is still (10 years later) 1 of only 5 RB's to eclipse 2,000 yds in a season. So with those two things in mind i think (but dont expect) TD to get into the HOF. If getting 2,000 yds was a regular occurance i could see your arguement but since it isnt to this day that a back will do that TD still stands out even over guys like LT. But again, considering how hard it is too get ANY Bronco into the HOF i highly doubt that he will but he most certainly deserves the HOF.

but Sayers is the exeption isnt he?

I want Davis in of course but I can see the argument not to.

If you put Davis in, then in the future you will have a bunch of other players like them and all will get in since Sayers and Davis sets a precedent.

The same will be a problem if you just look at the stats. It used to be spectacular to get 10000 yards rushing or receiving.
But if you set that mark, players like Taylor, James, Dunn, Dillon, Eddie George , Tomlinson, Faulk and Martin all goes in. And to me, only the three last ones are really deserved because they had many seasons where they where the best of the best.

They royally screwed the whole thing up IMHO when they let all the pretty good to almost great players enter the HOF in large part since their TEAM won.

Dreadnought
12-08-2008, 10:26 AM
What is sad is Jerome Bettis will make the HOF and TD will not.

TD is twice the player that Bettis ever was. :coffee: and injuries
shorted what should have been a easy HOF career.

Also his playoff stats should not be discounted either. He has like 7 straight
100 yard games in 97 and 98 when we won back to back Super Bowls.

Agreed 100%. Bettis will be yet another overregarded Steeler in a HOF already full of them. The Steelers have a media propaganda arm only equaled by the Cowboys and Raiders.

haroldthebarrel
12-08-2008, 10:31 AM
Agreed 100%. Bettis will be yet another overregarded Steeler in a HOF already full of them. The Steelers have a media propaganda arm only equaled by the Cowboys and Raiders.

True.

why the hell did they screw up the whole HOF by letting every single Steeler who had a long career wind up on the HOF.

IMHO neither Swann nor Stallworth belong there, and if they do, there are so damn many players who were just as good. They just didnt win four superbowls.

For a bronco fan, the whole Steeler in the HOF is more bitter, since their players seem to get in on behalf of our studs.
Why Gradishar isnt in the fame is such a shame!

Northman
12-08-2008, 10:38 AM
but Sayers is the exeption isnt he?

I want Davis in of course but I can see the argument not to.

If you put Davis in, then in the future you will have a bunch of other players like them and all will get in since Sayers and Davis sets a precedent.

The same will be a problem if you just look at the stats. It used to be spectacular to get 10000 yards rushing or receiving.
But if you set that mark, players like Taylor, James, Dunn, Dillon, Eddie George , Tomlinson, Faulk and Martin all goes in. And to me, only the three last ones are really deserved because they had many seasons where they where the best of the best.

They royally screwed the whole thing up IMHO when they let all the pretty good to almost great players enter the HOF in large part since their TEAM won.


Not necessarily. Like i stated, TD is still one of only 5 players to eclipse 2,000 yds. In the long history of good to great running backs that number is very low. Until i see a run of RB's averaging 2,000 yds a season i will always say that TD is a cut above the rest. I still dont think he will get in but no one will ever sway me to say he doesnt deserve it until i see evidence to prove otherwise. As for the backs you listed i would have no problem with guys like LT or Faulk going in. But the rest are just meh to me even though they were good in their own right. But none of those good/great backs have ever gone over 2,000 yds in a season.

haroldthebarrel
12-08-2008, 10:44 AM
Not necessarily. Like i stated, TD is still one of only 5 players to eclipse 2,000 yds. In the long history of good to great running backs that number is very low. Until i see a run of RB's averaging 2,000 yds a season i will always say that TD is a cut above the rest. I still dont think he will get in but no one will ever sway me to say he doesnt deserve it until i see evidence to prove otherwise. As for the backs you listed i would have no problem with guys like LT or Faulk going in. But the rest are just meh to me even though they were good in their own right. But none of those good/great backs have ever gone over 2,000 yds in a season.

To be perfectly clear. I think Davis should be in.
A SB mvp while not seeing in a quarter through migraines. A 2000 yards season and the greatest playoff running back ever are enough arguments that make me say so while being not absolutely biased.
But.........

I can see the argument to why he is not, and why people at all argue he should not as well. And that is all I was saying.

Dreadnought
12-08-2008, 10:56 AM
The worst case of all is Terry Bradshaw. Career completion % of 51.9, interception rate of 5.4%, and lifetime QB rating of 70.9 - all of one point+ higher than the immortal Joey Harrington's 69.4. He gravytrained his way to Canton on the back of one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. Ditto Swann and Stallworth.

bengaaaaals1688
12-08-2008, 11:36 AM
Yea, his career was short. So was Gale Sayers and he is in. Furthermore, regardless of how short his time was he is still (10 years later) 1 of only 5 RB's to eclipse 2,000 yds in a season. So with those two things in mind i think (but dont expect) TD to get into the HOF. If getting 2,000 yds was a regular occurance i could see your arguement but since it isnt to this day that a back will do that TD still stands out even over guys like LT. But again, considering how hard it is too get ANY Bronco into the HOF i highly doubt that he will but he most certainly deserves the HOF.

And Chad Johnson is the only WR in history to lead his conference in receiving yards for 4 years, but that in and of itself doesn't make him HOF worthy. It takes more than one accomplishment to make the HOF, and in order to accomplish enough you need to play at a high level for more than 4 years.

bengaaaaals1688
12-08-2008, 11:41 AM
The worst case of all is Terry Bradshaw. Career completion % of 51.9, interception rate of 5.4%, and lifetime QB rating of 70.9 - all of one point+ higher than the immortal Joey Harrington's 69.4. He gravytrained his way to Canton on the back of one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. Ditto Swann and Stallworth.

Terry Bradshaw barely deserves to be allowed to TALK about football, let alone be given a prestigious honor of being in the HOF for his good play, or lack thereof.

As for Swann and Stallworth... If either of them deserve Canton it's Stallworth. Swann made some nice acrobatic catches and all that crap, but Stallworth was the one who consistently produced and had the numbers to back him up. The fact that they got in as easily as they did while Art Monk has had to wait so long is ridiculous... However, people have to remember that these guys got in (same with Sayers) when the HOF was still young, so the judgements weren't as critical because they didn't have a standard for who belonged yet. That combined with the fact that seasons were shorter for a portion of that time, and the game itself was different, make it so that it is tough to argue that players should be in because players back then were in, such as Sayers and Davis.

claymore
12-08-2008, 11:43 AM
-- A 4.78 yards per carry average before the injuries

-- A 2000+ yard season (one that could have been a league record if the Broncos hadn't been so dominating -- I specifically remember Davis spending the second half of the Dallas game on the bench after burning them for 100+ yards in the first half)

-- League MVP

-- Super Bowl MVP

-- Back-to-Back Super Bowl rings
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/2002/0815/1418336.html


To be the best back if not the best player in the league for 3 years means HOF. We cannot control who gets injured. Emmit Smith wasnt as good as TD. And If LT gets enshrined, Im gonna protest his induction.

TD was the LT of his day. And he backed it up with SB trophies.

bengaaaaals1688
12-08-2008, 11:46 AM
To be the best back if not the best player in the league for 3 years means HOF. We cannot control who gets injured. Emmit Smith wasnt as good as TD. And If LT gets enshrined, Im gonna protest his induction.

TD was the LT of his day. And he backed it up with SB trophies.

No... To be the best player at your position for at the very least 6 years means HOF. Injuries suck, terribly, but they are a part of the game. You can't say well he had done this, so he would have probably done that. It's like people who tout rookie OL, or rookie any position, as the best player at that position in the league for doing it once. TD was a great player, I love watching him run, I love highlights of him, but he did not play long enough to put together a resume worthy of the HOF. Unfortunate, yes, but still how it is.

shank
12-08-2008, 11:47 AM
To be the best back if not the best player in the league for 3 years means HOF. We cannot control who gets injured. Emmit Smith wasnt as good as TD. And If LT gets enshrined, Im gonna protest his induction.

TD was the LT of his day. And he backed it up with SB trophies.

emmit smith and jerome bettis are complete hacks compared to how dominating a player TD was. the HOF should acknowledge that. longevity doesn't match dominance IMO.

claymore
12-08-2008, 11:52 AM
No... To be the best player at your position for at the very least 6 years means HOF. Injuries suck, terribly, but they are a part of the game. You can't say well he had done this, so he would have probably done that. It's like people who tout rookie OL, or rookie any position, as the best player at that position in the league for doing it once. TD was a great player, I love watching him run, I love highlights of him, but he did not play long enough to put together a resume worthy of the HOF. Unfortunate, yes, but still how it is.

You can say the same about SuperBowl Rings. Yet Marino is in the HOF. Lost the big game, but stayed in long enough to make big numbers. Same goes for Moon.

TD was great.... The best at the time. 3 years is the lifespan for RB's. And TD was by far the best in the league for a 3 year period.

haroldthebarrel
12-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Terry Bradshaw barely deserves to be allowed to TALK about football, let alone be given a prestigious honor of being in the HOF for his good play, or lack thereof.

As for Swann and Stallworth... If either of them deserve Canton it's Stallworth. Swann made some nice acrobatic catches and all that crap, but Stallworth was the one who consistently produced and had the numbers to back him up. The fact that they got in as easily as they did while Art Monk has had to wait so long is ridiculous... However, people have to remember that these guys got in (same with Sayers) when the HOF was still young, so the judgements weren't as critical because they didn't have a standard for who belonged yet. That combined with the fact that seasons were shorter for a portion of that time, and the game itself was different, make it so that it is tough to argue that players should be in because players back then were in, such as Sayers and Davis.

That is not the problem with the HOF.
The problem as I see it, is that so many players got in because their TEAM won the Superbowl.
That pile of crap lead to a lot of great players in the 60s and 70s to early 80s not getting in. And then when they were eligible as veteran selections, you had to put them in, which created another problem.
A lot of young players with first year eligibility couldnt come in because you cant fill the HOF up with any kind of players.
And that created another problem since if Stallworth and Swann got in, how the heck can you leave out players like Andre Reed, Monk, (Clark), Rison, Rod Smith and Cris Carter.
(I mean how can a player like Carter not be a first ballot HOFer?)

And Reed, Monk and Smith pretty fills the same definitions that were put to get Swann and Stallworth in. Save for Reed who never won a SB.
But then what about really good and dominant players like Owens, Moss, Carter and Torry Holt?
I mean, by using the old definitions the HOF will be crowded by receivers in the near future!

GEM
12-08-2008, 12:28 PM
That is not the problem with the HOF.
The problem as I see it, is that so many players got in because their TEAM won the Superbowl.
That pile of crap lead to a lot of great players in the 60s and 70s to early 80s not getting in. And then when they were eligible as veteran selections, you had to put them in, which created another problem.
A lot of young players with first year eligibility couldnt come in because you cant fill the HOF up with any kind of players.
And that created another problem since if Stallworth and Swann got in, how the heck can you leave out players like Andre Reed, Monk, (Clark), Rison, Rod Smith and Cris Carter.
(I mean how can a player like Carter not be a first ballot HOFer?)

And Reed, Monk and Smith pretty fills the same definitions that were put to get Swann and Stallworth in. Save for Reed who never won a SB.
But then what about really good and dominant players like Owens, Moss, Carter and Torry Holt?
I mean, by using the old definitions the HOF will be crowded by receivers in the near future!


The East coast bias is what's wrong with the HOF....how the hell a guy like Gradishar isn't in....:tsk: How only Elway and Zims are in from the Broncos is brutal. I watched the 77 Championship game a month or so ago and what the hell I wouldn't give for a Gradishar now. The guy was insane, all over the field.

haroldthebarrel
12-08-2008, 12:35 PM
The East coast bias is what's wrong with the HOF....how the hell a guy like Gradishar isn't in....:tsk: How only Elway and Zims are in from the Broncos is brutal. I watched the 77 Championship game a month or so ago and what the hell I wouldn't give for a Gradishar now. The guy was insane, all over the field.

I dont doubt that. But the east coast bias seems to be selective too.
Washington, Buffalo, Minnesota, and New England has a lot of players waiting to get in but so far no.
On the other hand Pittsburgh and any New York player seems to get in no matte r what.

As far as Gradishar is concerned. It is such a shame. I never saw him but I know enough of him to pounder how so many others could have been selected in front of him.

GEM
12-08-2008, 12:38 PM
I dont doubt that. But the east coast bias seems to be selective too.
Washington, Buffalo, Minnesota, and New England has a lot of players waiting to get in but so far no.
On the other hand Pittsburgh and any New York player seems to get in no matte r what.

As far as Gradishar is concerned. It is such a shame. I never saw him but I know enough of him to pounder how so many others could have been selected in front of him.

Harold, do you ever buy anything off of Amazon? I know they have 1977 Championship game, plus the 2 Super Bowl wins for about $20 on there. I know you would enjoy them.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_0_14?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=broncos+greatest+games&x=0&y=0&sprefix=Broncos+greate

Dreadnought
12-08-2008, 12:41 PM
The East coast bias is what's wrong with the HOF....how the hell a guy like Gradishar isn't in....:tsk: How only Elway and Zims are in from the Broncos is brutal. I watched the 77 Championship game a month or so ago and what the hell I wouldn't give for a Gradishar now. The guy was insane, all over the field.

Well, I am no cheerleader for the East Coast media, but of the three overrepresented teams IMO (Pitt., Oakland, and Dallas) only Pitt. is even remotely East Coast, and in most ways that matter they are really a Midwestern city.

I think it has more to do with lazieness than anything else. Sports media has paid inordinate attention to those franchises for years, so thats who they know. They grew up as kids watching those teams in a pre-Internet, pre DTV Sunday Ticket, pre Sports Bar era. You can't even imagine how hard it was to follow the Broncos in the East during the 70's :tsk:

I hate those three teams to this day for it!

King87
12-08-2008, 01:04 PM
You can say the same about SuperBowl Rings. Yet Marino is in the HOF. Lost the big game, but stayed in long enough to make big numbers. Same goes for Moon.

TD was great.... The best at the time. 3 years is the lifespan for RB's. And TD was by far the best in the league for a 3 year period.

Three years is not a lifespan for a hall of fame player. I am sorry, it just isn't. How can you see a guy who only produced for such a short time deserves the honor? And I'm not saying that he was not an absurd monster on the field. I know he was, but I want to see how he would have produced down the line.

And because there is doubt there, a good amount of doubt, he is not a hall of fame player.

King87
12-08-2008, 01:08 PM
The worst case of all is Terry Bradshaw. Career completion % of 51.9, interception rate of 5.4%, and lifetime QB rating of 70.9 - all of one point+ higher than the immortal Joey Harrington's 69.4. He gravytrained his way to Canton on the back of one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. Ditto Swann and Stallworth.

Dreadnought, if I ever meet you in person I will buy you a beer. Terry Bradshaw sucked. He was not even good, he sucked. It took him about five seasons to throw more TDs than INTs. He was inaccurate as a passer.

I agree with you on Swann, his numbers are pathetic. I was under the impression that Stallworth was actually pretty good statistically.

bengaaaaals1688
12-08-2008, 01:26 PM
You can say the same about SuperBowl Rings. Yet Marino is in the HOF. Lost the big game, but stayed in long enough to make big numbers. Same goes for Moon.

TD was great.... The best at the time. 3 years is the lifespan for RB's. And TD was by far the best in the league for a 3 year period.

3 years is a lifetime for an average RB. Elite players have long careers, which just expounds the level of their play and dominance.

Marino set almost every passing record known to the NFL, if that kind of player doesn't make it into the HOF then it's just silly.


That is not the problem with the HOF.
The problem as I see it, is that so many players got in because their TEAM won the Superbowl.
That pile of crap lead to a lot of great players in the 60s and 70s to early 80s not getting in. And then when they were eligible as veteran selections, you had to put them in, which created another problem.
A lot of young players with first year eligibility couldnt come in because you cant fill the HOF up with any kind of players.
And that created another problem since if Stallworth and Swann got in, how the heck can you leave out players like Andre Reed, Monk, (Clark), Rison, Rod Smith and Cris Carter.
(I mean how can a player like Carter not be a first ballot HOFer?)

And Reed, Monk and Smith pretty fills the same definitions that were put to get Swann and Stallworth in. Save for Reed who never won a SB.
But then what about really good and dominant players like Owens, Moss, Carter and Torry Holt?
I mean, by using the old definitions the HOF will be crowded by receivers in the near future!

It can still somewhat be attributed to the age of the HOF when some of the players that got in largely based on their team's accomplishments were voted in. Without having strict definitions on what makes a HOF player, they had to go by who they knew to have done something of note, and at that time the most notable things were SB wins. As far as I can remember, and I'll grant that I don't remember it all that well, during the early years of the HOF there weren't many record shattering players that were clear cut HOF no matter what the year was, so they went off the notable accomplishments, and in MANY people's minds a player winning 4 SB's is still a testament to him as an individual, though I will never understand why.


The East coast bias is what's wrong with the HOF....how the hell a guy like Gradishar isn't in.... How only Elway and Zims are in from the Broncos is brutal. I watched the 77 Championship game a month or so ago and what the hell I wouldn't give for a Gradishar now. The guy was insane, all over the field.

Welcome to Bengals world... Kenny Anderson, possibly the most prolific passer the NFL had ever seen at his time, still in the top 10, or at least top 20, in almost every passing category (after playing in a time much more well known for it's running) isn't in the HOF. Ken Riley, who I believe is still in the top 10 for career interceptions, isn't in the HOF (and I believe has never even made it out of the first vote). Granted the Bengals don't exactly have a history of greatness or great players, but we only have Anthony Munoz (no disrespect to Munoz) and that is absolutely ridiculous.

There's still Isaac Curtis, the original 85, who had a better career than many of the WR's in the HOF, but he never won a SB. There are players from all teams that haven't made the HOF and should, hell there are probably players from the Steelers and Cowboys who should be in and didn't because they put someone else in. People really only complain about bias and things when it goes against their team, although that is a perfectly understandable thing.

bengaaaaals1688
12-08-2008, 01:27 PM
Dreadnought, if I ever meet you in person I will buy you a beer. Terry Bradshaw sucked. He was not even good, he sucked. It took him about five seasons to throw more TDs than INTs. He was inaccurate as a passer.

I agree with you on Swann, his numbers are pathetic. I was under the impression that Stallworth was actually pretty good statistically.

Stallworth, from a statistical stand point, had the numbers that fully deserved the HOF, at that time. Nowadays his numbers pale in comparison to some of the top WRs, but for his time, he had the numbers.

Dreadnought
12-08-2008, 01:42 PM
Dreadnought, if I ever meet you in person I will buy you a beer. Terry Bradshaw sucked. He was not even good, he sucked. It took him about five seasons to throw more TDs than INTs. He was inaccurate as a passer.

I agree with you on Swann, his numbers are pathetic. I was under the impression that Stallworth was actually pretty good statistically.

With time Bradshaw eventually became...decent. For the first years of his career trust me when I tell you he was laugh out loud funny to watch. By '74 he was so bad and showed so little progress that they finally benched him in favor of a guy named Joe Gilliam. He singlehandedly kept opponents in games against the Steelers. He won Superbowl rings. BFD; Trent Dilfer has one too. Thats not exactly a the best measuring stick in a team sport. As Bengaaaals alluded, Kenny Anderson was three times the QB Bradshaw ever wished he was in that era.

King87
12-08-2008, 01:46 PM
With time Bradshaw eventually became...decent. For the first years of his career trust me when I tell you he was laugh out loud funny to watch. By '74 he was so bad and showed so little progress that they finally benched him in favor of a guy named Joe Gilliam. He singlehandedly kept opponents in games against the Steelers. He won Superbowl rings. BFD; Trent Dilfer has one too. Thats not exactly a the best measuring stick in a team sport. As Bengaaaals alluded, Kenny Anderson was three times the QB Bradshaw ever wished he was in that era.

Only three, so Anderson sucked pretty hard too huh? ;)

Dreadnought
12-08-2008, 01:50 PM
Only three, so Anderson sucked pretty hard too huh? ;)

LMAO! You feared having your team face Kenny Anderson. You feared facing the Steelers because of that defense, and got frustrated watching their hack of a QB notch a win against you off of their efforts and in spite of himself!

King87
12-08-2008, 01:56 PM
LMAO! You feared having your team face Kenny Anderson. You feared facing the Steelers because of that defense, and got frustrated watching their hack of a QB notch a win against you off of their efforts and in spite of himself!

In all seriousness, I know that everyone has their own opinion about TD being in the hall. And this is just fun and debate, we all know we will rarely, if every change the mind of anyone.

But, we all can agree that Terry Bradshaw sucks.

Dreadnought
12-08-2008, 01:59 PM
In all seriousness, I know that everyone has their own opinion about TD being in the hall. And this is just fun and debate, we all know we will rarely, if every change the mind of anyone.

But, we all can agree that Terry Bradshaw sucks.

Well except for Steeler fans, but at least 98% of them have seriously sub-normal IQ's

King87
12-08-2008, 02:03 PM
Well except for Steeler fans, but at least 98% of them have seriously sub-normal IQ's

Real Steeler fans are really great fans. I used to frequent Damon's Bar and Grill, and ran into a lot of good ones.

Most of their fanbase is nothing but bandwagon fans. When your team is successful and wins a lot it's inevitable.

But damn, there are some dumb dumb fans out there.

Dreadnought
12-08-2008, 02:10 PM
Real Steeler fans are really great fans. I used to frequent Damon's Bar and Grill, and ran into a lot of good ones.

Most of their fanbase is nothing but bandwagon fans. When your team is successful and wins a lot it's inevitable.

But damn, there are some dumb dumb fans out there.

No question - its why the Cowboys, Steelers, and Raiders have far and away the most myopic, herd like, and stupid collection of fans going.

King87
12-08-2008, 02:12 PM
No question - its why the Cowboys, Steelers, and Raiders have far and away the most myopic, herd like, and stupid collection of fans going.

The Browns have a lot of fans too. I don't know why, and I assure you, the vast majority of them are bloody stupid.

I know that your father was a Browns fan, and I think he did that just to set a good example for the little mutants.

Dreadnought
12-08-2008, 02:20 PM
The Browns have a lot of fans too. I don't know why, and I assure you, the vast majority of them are bloody stupid.

I know that your father was a Browns fan, and I think he did that just to set a good example for the little mutants.

LMAO! He goes back to the days of Milt Plum at QB and Jimmy Brown. He had been a Lions fan until Brown, so thank God he had the sense to quit them in the mid '50's :lol:

Lonestar
12-08-2008, 02:22 PM
Well except for Steeler fans, but at least 98% of them have seriously sub-normal IQ's

thats becasue they drink water, breathe the air from the east coast..

What happened to you? why are you not tyipcal?

King87
12-08-2008, 02:22 PM
LMAO! He goes back to the days of Milt Plum at QB and Jimmy Brown. He had been a Lions fan until Brown, so thank God he had the sense to quit them in the mid '50's :lol:

I wish I could laugh at that. Being born in Cincinnati is not very good if you are a sports fan.

I would also like to add that I loathe Joe Montana.

Medford Bronco
12-08-2008, 04:02 PM
thats becasue they drink water, breathe the air from the east coast..

What happened to you? why are you not tyipcal?

lol not all us East costers are dumb right jr;):lol:

Medford Bronco
12-08-2008, 04:04 PM
I would also like to add that I loathe Joe Montana.

Me too even till this day that stupid blowout Super Bowl to the 9ers did that
also the game that he scored with like 02 sec left on a Monday Night in Denver in 94 did it as well. :lol:

I do respect how good he was however and to me is the best most clutch QB I ever saw. (did not like however)

KCL
12-08-2008, 07:49 PM
Me too even till this day that stupid blowout Super Bowl to the 9ers did that
also the game that he scored with like 02 sec left on a Monday Night in Denver in 94 did it as well. :lol:
I do respect how good he was however and to me is the best most clutch QB I ever saw. (did not like however)

I remember that game...He was the last QB we had that took us anywhere :rolleyes:

Northman
12-08-2008, 08:10 PM
And Chad Johnson is the only WR in history to lead his conference in receiving yards for 4 years, but that in and of itself doesn't make him HOF worthy. It takes more than one accomplishment to make the HOF, and in order to accomplish enough you need to play at a high level for more than 4 years.


Yep, a Super Bowl MVP and 2 rings helps solidify TD's legacy as a HOF back.

Northman
12-08-2008, 08:11 PM
No... To be the best player at your position for at the very least 6 years means HOF. Injuries suck, terribly, but they are a part of the game. You can't say well he had done this, so he would have probably done that. It's like people who tout rookie OL, or rookie any position, as the best player at that position in the league for doing it once. TD was a great player, I love watching him run, I love highlights of him, but he did not play long enough to put together a resume worthy of the HOF. Unfortunate, yes, but still how it is.

And i say respectfully your full of shit.

Northman
12-08-2008, 08:16 PM
Three years is not a lifespan for a hall of fame player. I am sorry, it just isn't. How can you see a guy who only produced for such a short time deserves the honor? And I'm not saying that he was not an absurd monster on the field. I know he was, but I want to see how he would have produced down the line.

And because there is doubt there, a good amount of doubt, he is not a hall of fame player.

Uh, no there is no doubt there. He dominated the league until he got injured and there was no sign of him slowing down. So your absolutely wrong.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 08:17 PM
Terrel Davis is a Hall of Fame running back.

Philip Rivers is a bitch, ***** and *******.

Any questions?

BigDaddyBronco
12-08-2008, 08:29 PM
Yep, a Super Bowl MVP and 2 rings helps solidify TD's legacy as a HOF back.

Don't forget league MVP. Highest regular season award you can get.

BigDaddyBronco
12-08-2008, 08:34 PM
I think the whole anti TD Pro Bowl argument is silly. If you are one of the top 2 or 3 players in the game for a 3 or 4 year period and back it up with a couple of SB rings that should be enough.

For example if the Rams had won the SB against the Pats and he had put another 2 good seasons together with the Rams I would argue that Kurt Warner would be a HOF QB. He certainly would have accomplished more than the gaudy numbers of Dan Marino.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 08:35 PM
Don't forget league MVP. Highest regular season award you can get.

2,000 freakin yards in one season.

Five players in NFL history.

Eric Dickerson
Jamal Lewis
Barry Sanders
Terrell Davis
O.J. Simpson

THAT'S IT, THAT'S THE LIST!

King87
12-08-2008, 08:38 PM
Uh, no there is no doubt there. He dominated the league until he got injured and there was no sign of him slowing down. So your absolutely wrong.

For how many years? THREE! He had THREE great years. http://www.nfl.com/players/terrelldavis/profile?id=DAV766905

That's a hall of fame career? Three dominant years? Seriously? I understand that he is beloved in Denver, but three dominant years and one good rookie year does not make you a hall of fame player.

Having a short but brilliant career does not make you a hall of fame player. Gale Sayers should not be in the hall of fame either.

King87
12-08-2008, 08:38 PM
2,000 freakin yards in one season.

Five players in NFL history.

Eric Dickerson
Jamal Lewis
Barry Sanders
Terrell Davis
O.J. Simpson

THAT'S IT, THAT'S THE LIST!

Quick, put Jamal Lewis in the hall of fame too.

BigDaddyBronco
12-08-2008, 08:39 PM
2,000 freakin yards in one season.

Five players in NFL history.

Eric Dickerson
Jamal Lewis
Barry Sanders
Terrell Davis
O.J. Simpson

THAT'S IT, THAT'S THE LIST!
So you take off Jamal Lewis because he has done nothing else and OJ cause he cut off Nicole's head and everyone else deserves the HOF.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 08:43 PM
For how many years? THREE! He had THREE great years. http://www.nfl.com/players/terrelldavis/profile?id=DAV766905

That's a hall of fame career? Three dominant years? Seriously? I understand that he is beloved in Denver, but three dominant years and one good rookie year does not make you a hall of fame player.

Having a short but brilliant career does not make you a hall of fame player. Gale Sayers should not be in the hall of fame either.

Click on that link and go search out Gale Sayers for me.

Then kiss my ass when you get back.

OK?

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 08:44 PM
So you take off Jamal Lewis because he has done nothing else and OJ cause he cut off Nicole's head and everyone else deserves the HOF.

Five players. Four are Hall worthy. One of those four isn't in. You do the ******* math.

King87
12-08-2008, 08:45 PM
I think the whole anti TD Pro Bowl argument is silly. If you are one of the top 2 or 3 players in the game for a 3 or 4 year period and back it up with a couple of SB rings that should be enough.

For example if the Rams had won the SB against the Pats and he had put another 2 good seasons together with the Rams I would argue that Kurt Warner would be a HOF QB. He certainly would have accomplished more than the gaudy numbers of Dan Marino.

Three or four years is pretty darn short. Priest Holmes is a HOF running back? Jamal Lewis is a Hall of Fame running back? Clinton Portis is a Hall of Fame running back? All those guys had great spurts in their career.


As far as the slight made towards Dan Marino, he had a great career. For a long long time he was one of the greatest players in the history of the league. Something that TD failed to accomplish.

King87
12-08-2008, 08:46 PM
Five players. Four are Hall worthy. One of those four isn't in. You do the ******* math.

Five players. Three are Hall worthy. Two of those players aren't and will not be in. You do the ******* math.

King87
12-08-2008, 08:47 PM
Click on that link and go search out Gale Sayers for me.

Then kiss my ass when you get back.

OK?

Yes MO, because he is in means that he should be in. But guess what, he doesn't deserve to be in.

Now kiss my ass.

Love you.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 08:48 PM
Three or four years is pretty darn short. Priest Holmes is a HOF running back? Jamal Lewis is a Hall of Fame running back? Clinton Portis is a Hall of Fame running back? All those guys had great spurts in their career.

Longevity is the most over-rated aspect of a Hall of Famer.

Not one of the above listed players had a 2,000-yard season, two Super Bowl rings, one Super Bowl MVP.

BTW, both Lewis and Portis will have convincing arguments for enshrinement as well, come the end of their career.

slim
12-08-2008, 08:49 PM
Yes MO, because he is in means that he should be in. But guess what, he doesn't deserve to be in.

Now kiss my ass.

Love you.

You should stick to the WNBA.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 08:50 PM
You should stick to the WNBA.

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BigDaddyBronco
12-08-2008, 08:50 PM
Three or four years is pretty darn short. Priest Holmes is a HOF running back? Jamal Lewis is a Hall of Fame running back? Clinton Portis is a Hall of Fame running back? All those guys had great spurts in their career.


As far as the slight made towards Dan Marino, he had a great career. For a long long time he was one of the greatest players in the history of the league. Something that TD failed to accomplish.

Any of those guys got a SB ring or MVP? Marino gets in on numbers alone.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 08:52 PM
Any of those guys got a SB ring or MVP? Marino gets in on numbers alone.

Lewis has a Super Bowl ring, and seriously could have an argument at enshrinement.

Northman
12-08-2008, 08:52 PM
For how many years? THREE! He had THREE great years. http://www.nfl.com/players/terrelldavis/profile?id=DAV766905

That's a hall of fame career? Three dominant years? Seriously? I understand that he is beloved in Denver, but three dominant years and one good rookie year does not make you a hall of fame player.

Having a short but brilliant career does not make you a hall of fame player. Gale Sayers should not be in the hall of fame either.


It doesnt matter if Sayers belongs or not. I could care less but yet the reality is he is there and HAS now set the standard. You yourself are quoted as saying that TD was a beast and then in the same paragraph say that WE dont know what he would of done. Thats just a ridiculous statement on your part. As for Lewis, i have no problem putting him in there because at the end of the day he still has only done what 4 other RB's have done and has a Ring to show for it. So while Jamal's and TD's careers were cut short (Jamal's in a different way) both are part of a special group, both have championships, and both were VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN THEIR TEAM'S SUCCESS WHILE THEY WERE AT THEIR BEST. As ive said before, until i see RB's getting 2,000 yds every other year those that have achieved that status DESERVE special status and HOF consideration.

bengaaaaals1688
12-08-2008, 08:53 PM
Yep, a Super Bowl MVP and 2 rings helps solidify TD's legacy as a HOF back.

Again... The only person to ever reach that accomplishment. I repeat the ONLY person to ever do it... Other players have done everything TD has done, other players have hit 2,000 yards, other players have been SB MVP, other players have been league MVP, other players have multiple SB rings, but Chad Johnson has done something that he is the one and only person to do in the history of the NFL, and he STILL doesn't belong in the HOF because he hasn't done enough. He hasn't done enough even though he has been a dominant WR, besides this season, for only 6 years and doesn't have the CAREER statistics that allow for him to be good enough.

3 years is FAR from being enough to judge whether a player should be in the HOF, no matter what he does in those 3 years.

King87
12-08-2008, 08:55 PM
Longevity is the most over-rated aspect of a Hall of Famer.

Not one of the above listed players had a 2,000-yard season, two Super Bowl rings, one Super Bowl MVP.

BTW, both Lewis and Portis will have convincing arguments for enshrinement as well, come the end of their career.

Longevity should be the most important aspect of a career. Those players did it longer. What more do you want?

And most of those players will have more career yards, TDs, possibly better YPC. Superbowl MVP is overrated. Dexter Jackson is a SB MVP. Branch when he was on Patriots won a SB MVP.

Jamal Lewis will not have a convincing argument when his career is over. But, that is neither here nor there because going by your logic they would be HOF players right now.

bengaaaaals1688
12-08-2008, 08:55 PM
Any of those guys got a SB ring or MVP? Marino gets in on numbers alone.

Marino set records that until a certain player by the name of Peyton Manning came along were considered all but untouchable. That's why Marino deserves the HOF slot he has.

Northman
12-08-2008, 08:58 PM
Again... The only person to ever reach that accomplishment. I repeat the ONLY person to ever do it... Other players have done everything TD has done, other players have hit 2,000 yards, other players have been SB MVP, other players have been league MVP, other players have multiple SB rings, but Chad Johnson has done something that he is the one and only person to do in the history of the NFL, and he STILL doesn't belong in the HOF because he hasn't done enough. He hasn't done enough even though he has been a dominant WR, besides this season, for only 6 years and doesn't have the CAREER statistics that allow for him to be good enough.

3 years is FAR from being enough to judge whether a player should be in the HOF, no matter what he does in those 3 years.

Only 4 other players have hit 2,000 rushing yards in a season. Try again.

As for CJ, its an absolute joke you would even put him in the discussion. Receivers, back's, QB's, etc have all lead the league in stats at one point or another. But when it comes to championships, MVP awards, Special stats (whether its leading in stats or CERTAIN stats i.e 2000 yds) then those players are easily in the discussion for HOF consideration. CJ is nowhere close to any of that in ANY regard.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 08:58 PM
Running backs with less yards than Terrell Davis who got into the Hall of Fame:

(In order of total rushing yards)

Leroy Kelly
John Henry Johnson
Steve Van Buren
Hugh McElhenny
Lenny Moore
Ollie Matson
Gale Sayers
Marion Motley
Tony Canadeo
Clarke Hinkle
Frank Gifford
Cliff Battles
Charlie Trippi

Want to tell me how many Super Bowl MVPs and 2,000 yard seasons those players have?

King87
12-08-2008, 09:01 PM
It doesnt matter if Sayers belongs or not. I could care less but yet the reality is he is there and HAS now set the standard. You yourself are quoted as saying that TD was a beast and then in the same paragraph say that WE dont know what he would of done. Thats just a ridiculous statement on your part. As for Lewis, i have no problem putting him in there because at the end of the day he still has only done what 4 other RB's have done and has a Ring to show for it. So while Jamal's and TD's careers were cut short (Jamal's in a different way) both are part of a special group, both have championships, and both were VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN THEIR TEAM'S SUCCESS WHILE THEY WERE AT THEIR BEST. As ive said before, until i see RB's getting 2,000 yds every other year those that have achieved that status DESERVE special status and HOF consideration.

It very much matters if he belongs or not. Because if he does not belong all you would be doing is making another misttake.

He was a beast for the time he was on the field. However, when I ask you to prove to me he would have kept producing for his career, you can't. You can assume he would, hell, I assume he would. I assume he would be really high up there for career yards, TDs, yards from scrimmage. I also assume his YPC would dip a little bit over the yards, like most backs.

To refute the fact that we cannot prove what he would have done makes zero sense. Prove it to me right now, empirical evidence please.

You honestly think that Jamal Lewis is one of the best RBs ever?

This guy? http://www.nfl.com/players/jamallewis/profile?id=LEW373095 He had one great year. His other years were almost all average barring his two 1,300 yard seasons. That guy, as average as he is OVERALL FOR HIS CAREER is a Hall of Famer JUST because he rushed for 2k yards? Are you serious?

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 09:03 PM
It very much matters if he belongs or not. Because if he does not belong all you would be doing is making another misttake.

He was a beast for the time he was on the field. However, when I ask you to prove to me he would have kept producing for his career, you can't. You can assume he would, hell, I assume he would. I assume he would be really high up there for career yards, TDs, yards from scrimmage. I also assume his YPC would dip a little bit over the yards, like most backs.

To refute the fact that we cannot prove what he would have done makes zero sense. Prove it to me right now, empirical evidence please.

You honestly think that Jamal Lewis is one of the best RBs ever?

This guy? http://www.nfl.com/players/jamallewis/profile?id=LEW373095 He had one great year. His other years were almost all average barring his two 1,300 yard seasons. That guy, as average as he is OVERALL FOR HIS CAREER is a Hall of Famer JUST because he rushed for 2k yards? Are you serious?

He is the greatest post-season running back ever.

Dispute that. I dare you.

He was better in the post-season than any hall of famer. And I DARE you to show me who was better in the post-season. Hell, Thurman Thomas couldn't even find his damn helmet in the Super Bowl. Not only could Davis not see, he scored a TOUCHDOWN when he couldn't see.

King87
12-08-2008, 09:03 PM
Running backs with less yards than Terrell Davis who got into the Hall of Fame:

(In order of total rushing yards)

Leroy Kelly
John Henry Johnson
Steve Van Buren
Hugh McElhenny
Lenny Moore
Ollie Matson
Gale Sayers
Marion Motley
Tony Canadeo
Clarke Hinkle
Frank Gifford
Cliff Battles
Charlie Trippi

Want to tell me how many Super Bowl MVPs and 2,000 yard seasons those players have?

How many games did those players play? What era did they play in? Did you factor those in. Oh, and when people make a list of the great players at the RB position no one ever brings up most of those guys names. For a damn good reason at that.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 09:04 PM
How many games did those players play? What era did they play in? Did you factor those in. Oh, and when people make a list of the great players at the RB position no one ever brings up most of those guys names. For a damn good reason at that.

Then why the **** are they in the Hall of Fame?

King87
12-08-2008, 09:05 PM
He is the greatest post-season running back ever.

Dispute that. I dare you.

He was better in the post-season than any hall of famer. And I DARE you to show me who was better in the post-season. Hell, Thurman Thomas couldn't even find his damn helmet in the Super Bowl. Not only could Davis not see, he scored a TOUCHDOWN when he couldn't see.

That's nice, the man was a beast when he was able to play. The issue is that he was not around to do more.

King87
12-08-2008, 09:05 PM
Then why the **** are they in the Hall of Fame?

Because most sportswriters are morons.

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 09:05 PM
That's nice, the man was a beast when he was able to play. The issue is that he was not around to do more.

Neither were the 11 players I listed above.

Longevity is an excuse, and a bullshit one at that.

Greatness is greatness.

Terrell Davis was great.

Northman
12-08-2008, 09:07 PM
It very much matters if he belongs or not. Because if he does not belong all you would be doing is making another misttake.

He was a beast for the time he was on the field. However, when I ask you to prove to me he would have kept producing for his career, you can't. You can assume he would, hell, I assume he would. I assume he would be really high up there for career yards, TDs, yards from scrimmage. I also assume his YPC would dip a little bit over the yards, like most backs.

To refute the fact that we cannot prove what he would have done makes zero sense. Prove it to me right now, empirical evidence please.

You honestly think that Jamal Lewis is one of the best RBs ever?

This guy? http://www.nfl.com/players/jamallewis/profile?id=LEW373095 He had one great year. His other years were almost all average barring his two 1,300 yard seasons. That guy, as average as he is OVERALL FOR HIS CAREER is a Hall of Famer JUST because he rushed for 2k yards? Are you serious?

You mean the same guy who screwed up his career by getting involved with drugs, and then getting hurt in which it took him another year or so to get healed? Yea, considering again he is only 1 of 5 to eclipse a mark that you seem to think is one that should be disregarded. Just because guys like Emmitt Smith never fell into the trap of a Jamal Lewis or had a career ending injury like TD does not mean that they are not great backs or Hall worthy. Answer me this, if Emmitt Smith had taken a career ending injury in 95 would he still be HOF worthy?

MOtorboat
12-08-2008, 09:07 PM
Is Curtis Martin a hall of famer?

Northman
12-08-2008, 09:09 PM
That's nice, the man was a beast when he was able to play. The issue is that he was not around to do more.

Yet there is nothing to prove that he wouldnt have continued to do the same thing. If his career had started to take a decline before his injury you might be able to use that "what if" mentality. But since he was one of the best at that moment the facts are on his side.

bengaaaaals1688
12-08-2008, 09:10 PM
Only 4 other players have hit 2,000 rushing yards in a season. Try again.

As for CJ, its an absolute joke you would even put him in the discussion. Receivers, back's, QB's, etc have all lead the league in stats at one point or another. But when it comes to championships, MVP awards, Special stats (whether its leading in stats or CERTAIN stats i.e 2000 yds) then those players are easily in the discussion for HOF consideration. CJ is nowhere close to any of that in ANY regard.

So other players have done it correct?? I didn't specify how many, all I said was that it was done before him, and has been done since him.

No it isn't... He is the only WR to ever lead his conference in receiving yards 4 years in a row, that isn't exactly an easy task, but he isn't the best at his position, isn't the best to ever play, and will only have an argument for being in the HOF if he plays long enough. You need to play at an elite level for a good amount of time in order to be considered one of the elite of all time.

When has a WR EVER won an MVP award?? And it isn't Chad's fault he is on a garbage team.


Running backs with less yards than Terrell Davis who got into the Hall of Fame:

(In order of total rushing yards)

Leroy Kelly
John Henry Johnson
Steve Van Buren
Hugh McElhenny
Lenny Moore
Ollie Matson
Gale Sayers
Marion Motley
Tony Canadeo
Clarke Hinkle
Frank Gifford
Cliff Battles
Charlie Trippi

Want to tell me how many Super Bowl MVPs and 2,000 yard seasons those players have?

Charlie Trippi- 1947 - 1955
Cliff Battles- 1932 - 1937
Frank Gifford- 1952 - 1964
Clarke Hinkle- 1932 - 1941
Tony Canadeo- 1941 - 1952
Marion Motley- 1946 - 1955
Gale Sayers- 1965 - 1971
Ollie Matson- 1952 - 1966
Lenny Moore- 1956 - 1967
Hugh McElhenney- 1952 - 1964
Steve Van Buren- 1944 - 1951
John Henry Johnson- 1954 - 1966
Leroy Kelly- 1964 - 1973

Of each RB you posted only 2 of them started their careers after 1960, and not one of them played in the "modern era" of football. They played in a time with less games, more "ironmen," and less of an opportunity to do any of what RBs can do nowadays. It was a COMPLETELY different game, and seeing as there are only 4 of them who were even in the league while there was a SB, the amount of SB MVP's is irrelevant.

King87
12-08-2008, 09:10 PM
Neither were the 11 players I listed above.

Longevity is an excuse, and a bullshit one at that.

Greatness is greatness.

Terrell Davis was great.

How is that an excuse? He wasn't great for a long time. When I think of a great player I think of them being a true franchise player for a long stretch of years.

If Tony Romo keeps up what he is doing in two seasons or so by the definition of what you guys are proposing he would be a HOF player. Ewwie.

He was great. Just not great for a long enough time.

haroldthebarrel
12-08-2008, 09:12 PM
It very much matters if he belongs or not. Because if he does not belong all you would be doing is making another misttake.

He was a beast for the time he was on the field. However, when I ask you to prove to me he would have kept producing for his career, you can't. You can assume he would, hell, I assume he would. I assume he would be really high up there for career yards, TDs, yards from scrimmage. I also assume his YPC would dip a little bit over the yards, like most backs.

To refute the fact that we cannot prove what he would have done makes zero sense. Prove it to me right now, empirical evidence please.

You honestly think that Jamal Lewis is one of the best RBs ever?

This guy? http://www.nfl.com/players/jamallewis/profile?id=LEW373095 He had one great year. His other years were almost all average barring his two 1,300 yard seasons. That guy, as average as he is OVERALL FOR HIS CAREER is a Hall of Famer JUST because he rushed for 2k yards? Are you serious?


Curtis Martin will get in eventually. He was a top five back four years in his career. He was never at any point better than Terrel Davis while they both played. Well you could argue the rookie season. I say he had better stats, but he wasnt a better player. just on a better team.

But injuries happens to some people while he managed to escape them.
That is the whole argument there. One was unlucky, the other wasnt.

Longevity counts? Then put in Testaverde.
Superbowl wins counts? Then put in Warner.

But the fact is some precedents have been set. Those allows players like Swann and Sayers to get in, while others wont.

The argument should be, how good he was when he played.
Did he dominate. Well TD is by far the best playoff back ever.
More dominant than anybody else, even Emmith Smith.
Then individual honors, then longevity and then SB wins.

Should we just change the precedence or should we just create new ones whenever we please?
Nobody who has gotten the vote will get thrown out.

But the fact remains that the argument against him is that he was unlucky.
Nothing he could change, just something freakish happened.
Is luck really a good argument to keep a player out of honor?

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