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Cutler6MVP
11-02-2008, 06:34 PM
Watching Cutler play football is like watching the best quarterback with down syndrome play.

Northman
11-02-2008, 06:35 PM
lol, Marshall was going to get that call. He is pissed.

Italianmobstr7
11-02-2008, 07:10 PM
I don't think Marshall played that bad. The first INT, Stokely wasn't in the right place, 2nd one was just his bad, and the 3rd one he literally had no where else to throw the ball. Cutler tried. There were a lot of dropped passes too. Hopefully we can bounce back against the Browns.

Cutler6MVP
11-02-2008, 07:12 PM
Cutler makes some of the dumbest decisions ive ever seen, he looks worse than Plummer lately. That is what im getting at with that comment.

G_Money
11-02-2008, 07:12 PM
Um...if today "wasn't that bad" then just how bad does Jay have to be in order to BE bad?

Does he have to spontaneously combust in a plume of suckitude right on the playing field?

We had no running game and no desire to find a running game. This game was on Jay's shoulders and for the better part of 3 quarters he shrugged it off and spit on it.

I'd say that's pretty bad.

~G

Broncolingus
11-02-2008, 07:13 PM
I think in any loss there is plenty of blame to go around, but I would say Cutler is looking more 'flat' with each passing week...just like the last 1/4 games of last season.

Northman
11-02-2008, 07:14 PM
One major concern is his turnover ratio is averaging 2-3 turnovers a game. Thats not good at all.

Italianmobstr7
11-02-2008, 07:16 PM
He definitely didn't play great, but with no help from the run game, there's not a lot he could do. The Dolphins D did a good job. 2 of his 3 INT's were pretty bad, so I'm not saying that he played great, but he wasn't the worst player on our team today. That would either be our entire rushing offense, or Whichever player was covering Camarillo on any given play.

D1g1tal j1m
11-02-2008, 07:19 PM
That would either be our entire rushing offense, or Whichever player was covering Camarillo on any given play.
That would be Paymah with the look of confusion.

BroncoJoe
11-02-2008, 07:19 PM
At this point, Cutler sucks. Dude needs to step up his game.

broncobryce
11-02-2008, 07:21 PM
Bly dropped an Int too. at least paymah caught his

Italianmobstr7
11-02-2008, 07:22 PM
I think people are WAY too quick to bash whoever our QB is that isn't John Elway... The qb is going to have bad games. Peyton and Brady both have bad games occasionally. It happens. He didn't play great today, but he doesn't suck. He doesn't suck at all. He threw 3 picks today, but he had 1 TD dropped, among many other passes, and he was actually under some pressure today. He still threw 2 tds. He made some bad decisions today, but a bad game, or 4 or 5 bad games, does not mean that he "sucks."

SmilinAssasSin27
11-02-2008, 07:22 PM
what happened to BMarsh? I see he has no stats to speak of.

Northman
11-02-2008, 07:24 PM
At this point, Cutler sucks. Dude needs to step up his game.


Yea, i cant really disagree. From someone who gave Plummer a crapload of grief (albeit he is/was a 10 year vet) i full expected much more from Jay this year going on year 3. He started out well but in the last few games has regressed greatly. Hopefully he can fight through it but right now he is really struggling.

G_Money
11-02-2008, 07:25 PM
Cutler flushed 1/4 of our possessions today with turnovers, and gave the Dolphins 7 points in the process. Paymah got the ball back for us with his interception, single-handedly stopping a drive by the Dolphins.

For all that Paymah is not starting material and should never be out there as a LCB or RCB, he did what he was supposed to do: "keep the play in front of him, don't get beat deep, pray someone else makes a play."

Paymah wasn't told to win the game. That's not his job. He was told not to lose it, and give someone else a chance to win it.

That someone else was Jay.

Jay didn't do his job.

~G

Northman
11-02-2008, 07:27 PM
I think people are WAY too quick to bash whoever our QB is that isn't John Elway... The qb is going to have bad games. Peyton and Brady both have bad games occasionally. It happens. He didn't play great today, but he doesn't suck. He doesn't suck at all. He threw 3 picks today, but he had 1 TD dropped, among many other passes, and he was actually under some pressure today. He still threw 2 tds. He made some bad decisions today, but a bad game, or 4 or 5 bad games, does not mean that he "sucks."


He has potential but i wouldnt write off that he doesnt suck either. Still early in both regards but he is without a doubt regressing as a QB. Making poor reads and very poor decision making.

gobroncsnv
11-02-2008, 07:29 PM
There are plenty who will say Jay is only in his third season, and he's learning... There are others who are saying, how do you learn by regressing???

Italianmobstr7
11-02-2008, 07:30 PM
Ridiculous. The guy doesn't suck at all. He made some bad decisions. Brett Favre makes bad decisions, but he's one of the greatest of all time. Who gives a crap? Honestly. The guy had a few bad games! He's only in his 2nd year as a full starter. He's still playing decent. He had a bad game today. It happens. Today was his career high in INT's thrown. Which means in the first however many game he played, he has never thrown that many in a game. Jay will get things back under control. He does not, by any means suck. Not every QB not name John Elway sucks....Give me a freaking break.

Northman
11-02-2008, 07:32 PM
Ridiculous. The guy doesn't suck at all. He made some bad decisions. Brett Favre makes bad decisions, but he's one of the greatest of all time. Who gives a crap? Honestly. The guy had a few bad games! He's only in his 2nd year as a full starter. He's still playing decent. He had a bad game today. It happens. Today was his career high in INT's thrown. Which means in the first however many game he played, he has never thrown that many in a game. Jay will get things back under control. He does not, by any means suck. Not every QB not name John Elway sucks....Give me a freaking break.

Like i said, he has potential.

G_Money
11-02-2008, 07:34 PM
mobster -

I don't think anybody's trying to trade Jay for Matt Leinart or Alex Smith. But there are games that are on the head of the guy with the ball in his hand on every play.

This was one of those games.

John had those games (a LOT of those games with the horrible Reeves offense working against him), but after a few years his teammates got to know that if they would keep the game close, John would do what he does.

They believed in their QB.

Nobody believes Jay is bringing us back from the brink of defeat right now. The SD game wasn't that long ago but it sure feels like forever. This offense does not resemble that offense.

And Jay Cutler does not look like a man in control of himself and the situation.

More and more he looks like Marino and not Elway emotionally. Marino used to berate his teammates for their failures whenever something went wrong and he didn't look like a million bucks.

I would not consider Dan Marino a great leader. Terrific QB skills, great arm, but not exactly an inspirer.

Cutler has that about him. He's fine when things are on rails and going well but when the wheels start to come off it sure looks like his teammates don't exactly want to be around him to start the rally.

That spells trouble.

We either need to be in the lead more often (Miami's solution to the Marino Leadership Problem) or we're gonna have to get in an offensive leader, because right now we don't have anyone - offense OR defense - who can stem the tide when things start to go against us and things look bleak.

Our team leadership isn't there.

If we're gonna play from ahead all the time to mitigate this problem, then Cutler needs to stop imitating Plummer and doing stupid things that cost us possessions and touchdowns every game.

If we're not, then we need a better D and some better leaders. Because watching the offense pack it in is getting disheartening.

~G

Italianmobstr7
11-02-2008, 07:35 PM
It just makes me sick how people jump all over the guy after a loss. 3 games into this season, people were saying that he's a top 5 qb. 5 weeks later and he sucks? What gives? Bronco fans (including myself) have been spoiled by John Elway. Elway was great, and Cutler is no Elway, and he may never be. But he's still a good qb, and he's going to continue to be a good qb for his entire career.

Italianmobstr7
11-02-2008, 07:37 PM
mobster -

I don't think anybody's trying to trade Jay for Matt Leinart or Alex Smith. But there are games that are on the head of the guy with the ball in his hand on every play.

This was one of those games.

John had those games (a LOT of those games with the horrible Reeves offense working against him), but after a few years his teammates got to know that if they would keep the game close, John would do what he does.

They believed in their QB.

Nobody believes Jay is bringing us back from the brink of defeat right now. The SD game wasn't that long ago but it sure feels like forever. This offense does not resemble that offense.

And Jay Cutler does not look like a man in control of himself and the situation.

More and more he looks like Marino and not Elway emotionally. Marino used to berate his teammates for their failures whenever something went wrong and he didn't look like a million bucks.

I would not consider Dan Marino a great leader. Terrific QB skills, great arm, but not exactly an inspirer.

Cutler has that about him. He's fine when things are on rails and going well but when the wheels start to come off it sure looks like his teammates don't exactly want to be around him to start the rally.

That spells trouble.

We either need to be in the lead more often (Miami's solution to the Marino Leadership Problem) or we're gonna have to get in an offensive leader, because right now we don't have anyone - offense OR defense - who can stem the tide when things start to go against us and things look bleak.

Our team leadership isn't there.

If we're gonna play from ahead all the time to mitigate this problem, then Cutler needs to stop imitating Plummer and doing stupid things that cost us possessions and touchdowns every game.

If we're not, then we need a better D and some better leaders. Because watching the offense pack it in is getting disheartening.

~G

I agree. He needs to stop pouting, and get the team pumped up. Regardless of if we struggle early. He needs to not get down, and not let the team get down. He needs to be more of a leader. Still doesn't make him a bad qb, or make him suck though, like people are saying on this board.

Northman
11-02-2008, 07:37 PM
It just makes me sick how people jump all over the guy after a loss. 3 games into this season, people were saying that he's a top 5 qb. 5 weeks later and he sucks? What gives? Bronco fans (including myself) have been spoiled by John Elway. Elway was great, and Cutler is no Elway, and he may never be. But he's still a good qb, and he's going to continue to be a good qb for his entire career.

Like G Money pointed out i think your taking it far too serious. I think the general point is he is SUCKING lately which is the truth. Every QB gets grief especially when they continue to have multiple TO's to their credit. This has nothing to do with Elway, this has all to do with Jay Cutler.

G_Money
11-02-2008, 07:40 PM
mobster, Cutler refuses to cut down on his turnovers. They're getting worse, not better. Favre was fired for that in Atlanta, and nearly in GB you know. And right now he's treading water with the Jets. You know when Favre won something? When Reggie White was on his team, as a leader and a defensive force.

We don't have Reggie White.

We can't afford for Cutler to imitate Bret Favre, because we don't have and rarely have EVER had an opportunistic defense that forces turnovers. We will lose the turnover margin battle all the time with Cutler playing this way, and it's very hard to beat teams when they get all of their possessions plus 2-3 of ours every game.

Cutler has lessons to learn. He's a slow learner this year. It's a concern.

If you can't even acknowledge it's a concern, and that most of us who are concerned about it do not want to fire Cutler and are just pointing out the concerns that need to be fixed before we contend for anything, then that's on you.

Don't make our concerns into Elway comparisons or not-fit-to-QB-my-JV-girls-team hyperbole, please.

~G

broncophan
11-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Cutler has ALOT too learn.....and defenses have figured out how to defend him.....and confuse him,.............

Throw in no run game......and not a good defense........and you have a kid from Vandy who looks silly.....imo..

G_Money
11-02-2008, 07:50 PM
I agree. He needs to stop pouting, and get the team pumped up. Regardless of if we struggle early. He needs to not get down, and not let the team get down. He needs to be more of a leader. Still doesn't make him a bad qb, or make him suck though, like people are saying on this board.

Agreed. I just think that most people mean, "Cutler sucks RIGHT NOW" and not "FOREVER."

He's had as much a hand in our last month of losses as the defense has, and that's saying A LOT.

Elway turned the ball over a lot early in his career when he was trying to do everything...but he HAD to do everything. Winder and Willhite weren't gonna win us any games.

John became a winner once Shanny got here, got him some weapons, and let him run a West Coast offense that didn't require him to do everything. John's turnovers went down, his efficiency went up, and he had the best years of his career as the last years of his career.

Imagine what he could have done with a WC offense from the start. It boggles the mind.

Cutler HAS a WC offense from the start. He has one of the 3 best receivers in the land in Marshall, probably the best rookie receiver in Royal, a 3rd down weapon in Stokley, a TE receiving weapon whenever Scheff can stay healthy, and until recently a decent-to-good running attack. He's not getting sacked.

The turnovers are killing us because he's under FAR less duress than someone like Elway was. They're unnecessary. If Jay just does what he's supposed to do, checks down his reads, makes his throws, hands the ball off and inspires his guys, we'll be fine.

I'd like to know why he can't do that. The OL is starting to fail as a run-blocking unit, which is to be expected - zone blocking is a hard thing to master the way we do it, so all our young starters like Harris and Clady haven't got it yet. But Hamilton, Wiegmann and Kuper have all been in the league long enough to theoretically have mastered it now, and all of them are getting owned up front in the run game, the old guys Hamilton and Wiegmann especially. That has to be fixed.

But even if we can't run, if Cutler is staying on his feet most of the game then he should be able to avoid throwing it to the other guys.

It's not too much to ask.

~G

BroncoTech
11-02-2008, 07:52 PM
I think people are WAY too quick to bash whoever our QB is that isn't John Elway... The qb is going to have bad games. Peyton and Brady both have bad games occasionally. It happens. He didn't play great today, but he doesn't suck. He doesn't suck at all. He threw 3 picks today, but he had 1 TD dropped, among many other passes, and he was actually under some pressure today. He still threw 2 tds. He made some bad decisions today, but a bad game, or 4 or 5 bad games, does not mean that he "sucks."

The thing is he brought the curse of the Elway arm on himself and hasn't played to expectations since. Spooky heh?

G_Money
11-02-2008, 08:01 PM
The thing is he brought the curse of the Elway arm on himself and hasn't played to expectations since. Spooky heh?

It's only funny because he's wrong about it, too. If you watch Cutler play, you go, "Wow, strong arm."

And then you watch the Broncos/GB Super Bowl or something and go, "JEEZ! Did Elway really throw THAT hard?"

Rule #1 about following a HOF QB at a franchise, Jay: you are never as good as them until you are in the HOF. Ask Steve Young.

Just suck it up and worry about playing your best. Because if this is your best, I'll be sorely disappointed.

You seem to have a lot more in you than this.

~G

fcspikeit
11-02-2008, 08:30 PM
Cutler flushed 1/4 of our possessions today with turnovers, and gave the Dolphins 7 points in the process. Paymah got the ball back for us with his interception, single-handedly stopping a drive by the Dolphins.

For all that Paymah is not starting material and should never be out there as a LCB or RCB, he did what he was supposed to do: "keep the play in front of him, don't get beat deep, pray someone else makes a play."

Paymah wasn't told to win the game. That's not his job. He was told not to lose it, and give someone else a chance to win it.

That someone else was Jay.

Jay didn't do his job.

~G


Its true, "the guy" always gets the blame. After reading this I have to wonder if you have ever been "the guy"?

You do realize that the other teams stack the deck against “the guy” right? Jay is asked to not only make throws very few can make, he is asked to make those throws to the open guys. So what happens when there is no one open? Should he take a sack every play waiting for Marshall to come open? When the play call is all slants, it is a 3 step drop and the ball has to come out. There is no way to read the inside defender coming off his guy to jump the rout. If there is fault there it is with the play call against that D. If Jay is to be blamed on that play it should be that he didn’t change the play when he seen they where in press coverage. Does Cutler even have the power to do that? I haven’t seen it.

I am not saying Cutler is blame free. I just don’t buy the concept all the blame should go to the good players for not playing great and the bad players who played bad should get let off scott free.

The bottom line is that Paymah sucked hind tit today! Someone should have told him to tighten up. It makes no sense to keep giving up so much underneath to a guy who is slower than you. Pennington can only throw the ball about 50 yards. Is he so bad that he has to give up 7+ yards every snap? The 1 int he got he was playing tight, he showed then that he could run with the WR for as deep as Pennington could throw the ball. After that one would think that he would have closed the gap a bit. Did he? NO! He sucks!

The one good play he had does not make up for all the 1st downs he gave up. He played far worse then Cutler! If people want to put all the blame on 1 guy, he should be it.

I want to point out, I look forward to reading the post every time I see you wrote. Your normally spot on. You always seem to look deeper then the #’s with your insight. With this however, it seems that’s all your looking at. If it were that there where open guys Cutler wasn’t seeing I would agree with you. I didn’t see that. I seen someone who was trying to make a play where there wasn’t a play to be made. Marshall could not get open. He was complaining after plays for not getting the ball, where even if Cutler had tried to throw it in there it would have been a bad decision by Cutler because Marshall was covered.

He needs to do more then run after the catch. He needs to actually get open when the D is set on stopping him. Hell, he couldn’t even beat the 1 on 1 he got.

Northman
11-02-2008, 08:33 PM
Its true, "the guy" always gets the blame. After reading this I have to wonder if you have ever been "the guy"?

You do realize that the other teams stack the deck against “the guy” right? Jay is asked to not only make throws very few can make, he is asked to make those throws to the open guys. So what happens when there is no one open? Should he take a sack every play waiting for Marshall to come open? When the play call is all slants, it is a 3 step drop and the ball has to come out. There is no way to read the inside defender coming off his guy to jump the rout. If there is fault there it is with the play call against that D. If Jay is to be blamed on that play it should be that he didn’t change the play when he seen they where in press coverage. Does Cutler even have the power to do that? I haven’t seen it.

I am not saying Cutler is blame free. I just don’t buy the concept all the blame should go to the good players for not playing great and the bad players who played bad should get let off scott free.

The bottom line is that Paymah sucked hind tit today! Someone should have told him to tighten up. It makes no sense to keep giving up so much underneath to a guy who is slower than you. Pennington can only throw the ball about 50 yards. Is he so bad that he has to give up 7+ yards every snap? The 1 in the got he was playing tight, he showed then that he could run with the WR for as deep as Pennington could throw the ball. After that one would think that he would have closed the gap a bit. Did he? NO! He sucks!

The one good play he had does not make up for all the 1st downs he gave up. He played far worse then Cutler! If people want to put all the blame on 1 guy, he should be it.

I want to point out, I look forward to reading the post every time I see you wrote. Your normally spot on. You always seem to look deeper then the #’s with your insight. With this however, it seems that’s all your looking at. If it were that there where open guys Cutler wasn’t seeing I would agree with you. I didn’t see that. I seen someone who was trying to make a play where there wasn’t a play to be made. Marshall could not get open. He was complaining after plays for not getting the ball, where even if Cutler had tried to throw it in there it would have been a bad decision by Cutler because Marshall was covered.

He needs to do more then run after the catch. He needs to actually get open when the D is set on stopping him. Hell, he couldn’t even beat the 1 on 1 he got.

No one said he would take all the blame. But, when your attributed to 3 turnovers by yourself that is a major problem. And yes, ive played the position and been ridiculed for it. But you know what? I took 100% responsibility for it. Im sure Jay would do the same thing or at least i would hope so. When i had bad games i put the blame on myself.

hamrob
11-02-2008, 08:46 PM
I think people are WAY too quick to bash whoever our QB is that isn't John Elway... The qb is going to have bad games. Peyton and Brady both have bad games occasionally. It happens. He didn't play great today, but he doesn't suck. He doesn't suck at all. He threw 3 picks today, but he had 1 TD dropped, among many other passes, and he was actually under some pressure today. He still threw 2 tds. He made some bad decisions today, but a bad game, or 4 or 5 bad games, does not mean that he "sucks."I agree that he doesn't suck...in terms of his potential. Rest easy...nobody is going to give up on Jay. But ever since the Saints games....he has outright SUCKED! He's thrown way too many int's and fumbled several balls as well. Since those first three games...we are 1-4 folks! Cutler is a big reason for those losses. We can all say whatever we want...but at the end of the day...winners win and losers lose. Jay Cutler is what...13-16 now? To me...he's lost his confidence and is just going through the motions. Our defense had a pretty good game all and all. Our offense lost another one!

hamrob
11-02-2008, 08:50 PM
what happened to BMarsh? I see he has no stats to speak of.He did have one big play for a TD that was called back and another interferance call that gave us 1st and goal from the 1...but other than that...he was blanketed by the Dolphins CB's. The thing about Brandon is that he only has average speed and his routes are only so-so... He was frustrated that he wasn't getting the ball...but he wasn't even close to being open either. His clone if you ask me...player wise for Denver...was Shannon Sharpe.

broncobryce
11-02-2008, 09:07 PM
Cutler has a lot of pressure on him, because we haven't been able to run the ball, so teams can use cover 2 all game. He is trying to do it all himself, and still learning. I am concerned that he is regressing, but if we don't start running the ball I don't see it getting better. Way too many dropped passes. I was saying some of the same things as you during the game but now that I can think straight he doesn't get a free pass, but some of you are being too harsh IMO.

lex
11-02-2008, 09:38 PM
Cutler has a lot of pressure on him, because we haven't been able to run the ball, so teams can use cover 2 all game. He is trying to do it all himself, and still learning. I am concerned that he is regressing, but if we don't start running the ball I don't see it getting better. Way too many dropped passes. I was saying some of the same things as you during the game but now that I can think straight he doesn't get a free pass, but some of you are being too harsh IMO.


Blaming the running game just isnt going to work. Most of the personnel decisions were aimed at improving the passing game, meanwhile, weve been trying to get by on low round talent (namely interior OL and RB) in the running game for a while. No, we became a passing team this past offseason. Its a choice we made and one we're living with now. In the long run it could be helpful to put it all on Jays back but along with that, we're having to live with some inconsistencies that can be classified as growing pains.

What needs to happen started to happen today. Jay has been forcing the ball to Marshall too much for too long and today he was finally forced to look to other targets. The end result was Hillis having a great game and Royal also having a solid game. I actually thought Jay played a good last 3 quarters for this reason. What he experienced today was necessary if he is going to take that next step. People should be glad about what happened even though it would have been nice to get a win.

But regarding blaming the running game, the running game now spins off of the passing game because we pinned all our hopes on Jay who needs to fight through some issues now in order to grow as a QB.

Bronco9798
11-02-2008, 10:21 PM
Ridiculous. The guy doesn't suck at all. He made some bad decisions. Brett Favre makes bad decisions, but he's one of the greatest of all time. Who gives a crap? Honestly. The guy had a few bad games! He's only in his 2nd year as a full starter. He's still playing decent. He had a bad game today. It happens. Today was his career high in INT's thrown. Which means in the first however many game he played, he has never thrown that many in a game. Jay will get things back under control. He does not, by any means suck. Not every QB not name John Elway sucks....Give me a freaking break.

He may not suck, but he's sucking the last few weeks. He's not doing anything to help us win games. He's doing plenty to help us losing though. I agree, he don't suck, But, his play recently has sucked. He needs to quit getting mad, frustrated, and lead the team. His demeanor gets a little old when we are losing.

Bronco9798
11-02-2008, 10:24 PM
Blaming the running game just isnt going to work. Most of the personnel decisions were aimed at improving the passing game, meanwhile, weve been trying to get by on low round talent (namely interior OL and RB) in the running game for a while. No, we became a passing team this past offseason. Its a choice we made and one we're living with now. In the long run it could be helpful to put it all on Jays back but along with that, we're having to live with some inconsistencies that can be classified as growing pains.

What needs to happen started to happen today. Jay has been forcing the ball to Marshall too much for too long and today he was finally forced to look to other targets. The end result was Hillis having a great game and Royal also having a solid game. I actually thought Jay played a good last 3 quarters for this reason.
What he experienced today was necessary if he is going to take that next step. People should be glad about what happened even though it would have been nice to get a win.

But regarding blaming the running game, the running game now spins off of the passing game because we pinned all our hopes on Jay who needs to fight through some issues now in order to grow as a QB.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement at all. We're trying to win games and build a lead in the division and we should be glad Cutler threw 3 picks and sucked today. I'm trying to follow what you're saying, but it just isn't working.

smith49
11-02-2008, 10:47 PM
this may have little meaning to most, but here is how i see it. cutler sucked balls today, and has not been too good the last three or four weeks for that matter. i like the guy and think he is going to be a stud, eventually. i don't want to say this, but i was alive when elway was in his third season and he sucked a lot too. denver fans wanted his head as well.

now that i said that i will not compare the two any further. jay however has got to suck it up. he threw some baaaad balls today and has thrown several other bad balls in the past few games. i think eventually the guy will start to see that lb cheating over or when its a busted play and he cant find anyone he will learn that a punt is better then a turnover. i dont expect him to be great yet, but he needs to start moving forward rather then backwords.

this may not have much to do with the thread, but today and in the past two games i think it is safe to say that it has been the offense that has been the reason for losing. i still am not saying the D is any good, but man, they can only hold teams to field goals for so long. if the O could stay out there and maybe score a point or two instead of scoring points for the other team i think this team could be ok, not good, not great, but ok. anyhow, just my thoughts.

Lonestar
11-02-2008, 11:09 PM
Um...if today "wasn't that bad" then just how bad does Jay have to be in order to BE bad?

Does he have to spontaneously combust in a plume of suckitude right on the playing field?

We had no running game and no desire to find a running game. This game was on Jay's shoulders and for the better part of 3 quarters he shrugged it off and spit on it.

I'd say that's pretty bad.

~G

I remember earlier in the year that Jay could leap tall buildings with a single bound..

That we did not need a running game..

Well folks the chickens have come home to roost.. this team is worse than I thought it was when I predicted 7-9 not sure when we can really get our next win maybe on 23nov against OAK @ DEN..

CLE is not a lock in fact unless the browns has the flu on Thursday night (another national TV audience) I think it is not a stretch to call this one a loss. Wonder if we can forfeit and save the travel expense and embarrassment..

ATL DITTO

OAK a maybe win unless we get over confident AGAIN..

NYJ with Farve even OUR CB can't make picks..

KC another maybe game ditto OAK comments.

CAR could be but ugly stock up on the beer for this one.. Maybe want to switch to the hard stuff.

BUF an Jekyll and Hyde team most likely the bad one when they get to DEN..

SAN who the hell knows about this thrilla in Diego.. I'll let you know when we get closer..

SO this team could actually wind up 6-10 or 7-9 if we actually beat SAN for the division title..

smith49
11-02-2008, 11:21 PM
I remember earlier in the year that Jay could leap tall buildings with a single bound..

That we did not need a running game..

Well folks the chickens have come home to roost.. this team is worse than I thought it was when I predicted 7-9 not sure when we can really get our next win maybe on 23nov against OAK @ DEN..

CLE is not a lock in fact unless the browns has the flu on Thursday night (another national TV audience) I think it is not a stretch to call this one a loss. Wonder if we can forfeit and save the travel expense and embarrassment..

ATL DITTO

OAK a maybe win unless we get over confident AGAIN..

NYJ with Farve even OUR CB can't make picks..

KC another maybe game ditto OAK comments.

CAR could be but ugly stock up on the beer for this one.. Maybe want to switch to the hard stuff.

BUF an Jekyll and Hyde team most likely the bad one when they get to DEN..

SAN who the hell knows about this thrilla in Diego.. I'll let you know when we get closer..

SO this team could actually wind up 6-10 or 7-9 if we actually beat SAN for the division title..



can you actually imagine this team winning the division? wow, that would be funny. a definate possibility, but funny none the less. if they do, that road playoff game is going to be a disaster. i wonder if shanny knew the rest of the division was going to suck soo bad and that is why he guarranteed a playoff visit. he could not have thought that what he had was all that. could he?

fcspikeit
11-02-2008, 11:25 PM
No one said he would take all the blame. But, when your attributed to 3 turnovers by yourself that is a major problem. And yes, ive played the position and been ridiculed for it. But you know what? I took 100% responsibility for it. Im sure Jay would do the same thing or at least i would hope so. When i had bad games i put the blame on myself.

It’s not just about playing the position. You can be “the man” and play any position.

I also hope he blames himself and feels he could have changed the outcome of the game with his play.

My point is that, even if he feels that way, it isn’t fair for the casual onlooker to point the finger at the most important player on the team and blame them for the loss because they weren’t good enough to carry everyone to the finish line.

I have never played a sport when I wasn’t “the man”. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not tooting my own horn. I have played sports where I wasn’t the best player on the team. But I have NEVER EVER expected more from anyone on a team that I have played on because they were better then me and because they normally contribute more to the team then I do. I always feel like I have the power to make the difference between winning and losing. Therefore, I always put more blame on myself then I do anyone I play with. But I have played with some losers who somehow believe it’s the better players fault for not winning them the game. That’s BS!

For instance, I play in a lot of highly competitive Volleyball tourneys. I normally hit around 75% of the balls down against a double block. I can be playing with someone who hits 50% of the balls down against the same double block. Lets say I only hit 60% down and the other guy hits his 50% down. Who is to blame for us losing, me or him? He might say I didn’t have a good game while he played average so it’s my fault for having the bad game. Yet I still out played him. So how can it really be my fault? Because I am better then him?

I of course expect myself to hit 100% down, so I will blame myself more for the loss then anyone else. Yet everyone who has seen me play and knows what I can do only sees that I didn’t play as well as I can so I was the reason for the loss and IMO that isn’t fair. The simple truth is that I wasn’t good enough to carry all the average players for the win. The average onlooker only sees that the hitter gets blocked and therefore it must be his fault. They can’t see that the set was too tight or to far inside because they don’t know the difference between a good set and a bad set. Only those that have played at an elite level really know how much difference a couple inches make..

Now I know this isn’t volleyball, but the same principles apply in that we the onlooker will always look at our stars and blame them for a loss because they didn’t shine bright enough. No matter how dim the play of the others were.

I would like to think at this level of play, everyone would consider themselves “the man”

BeefStew25
11-02-2008, 11:27 PM
I'll skip all the drama and just state this:

You learn success by failing.

Jay had a bad game. They all do. Lets see how he handles it.

topscribe
11-02-2008, 11:36 PM
I think people are WAY too quick to bash whoever our QB is that isn't John Elway... The qb is going to have bad games. Peyton and Brady both have bad games occasionally. It happens. He didn't play great today, but he doesn't suck. He doesn't suck at all. He threw 3 picks today, but he had 1 TD dropped, among many other passes, and he was actually under some pressure today. He still threw 2 tds. He made some bad decisions today, but a bad game, or 4 or 5 bad games, does not mean that he "sucks."

Cutler actually threw three TDs if you count that phantom PI call against Marshall.

-----

G_Money
11-02-2008, 11:38 PM
True Jr, but I think people get too wrapped up in record as a determining factor in the usefulness of a season.

I think most of us acknowledged this was gonna be a rebuilding year. I was thinkin 9-7 to start the year, maybe a Browns-like 10-6 to just miss the playoffs. Nothing special, just a groundsetting campaign where we got some of the young talent to contribute.

What I'm looking for the rest of this season:

1) Progress with the young kids.

- I want to see Cutler stop throwing stupid interceptions EVERY game.
- I want to see Marshall hold onto the ball.
- I want to see Royal contribute steadily in every game instead of splashy-week followed by invisible week.
- I want to see Clady continue to be great in pass coverage, and to get much better as a run blocker as the year goes on
- ditto Harris
- I want to see Hillis and Torain become constant contributors so we can assess their usefulness to the team in future years
- I want to see young defenders get on the field and contribute. JMFW and Barrett should both be playing. Why are they not playing? Woodyard could play for DJ and we can see what he can do. Will he?
- I want to see Thomas continue to get better, and if either Crowder or Moss can get on the field, I'd like to keep seeing that too.

2) I want to see our game plans improve, on both sides of the ball.
- as you say, these Broncos are treating the run as an afterthought, and so the offense hasn't scored over 20 in 6 weeks now.
- Marshall's getting double covered so Jay needs to spread the ball around.
- We need to get Marshall open anyway. Line him up in the slot, run him on a reverse, have Royal throw it to him...whatever.
- I want more diversity in the offensive game plan, and more punishing offense as well. Moving pockets, rollouts that aren't naked boots, more use of the FB, but also some bruising. We've become a pure finesse team, and the successful Broncos teams of the past only LOOKED like finesse teams. We roughed up that GB defensive line in the SB. Our scheme let us be physical with bigger DLs, and we've lost that. As evidenced by today's sorry running attack.
- On defense, I'll take running any halfway-successful scheme twice in a row. We haven't tried the same thing in back-to-back weeks, so it'd be new for us.
- I actually don't want too much success on D, though - it might blind Shanahan to our idiotic inability to coach young defenders or put them in position to succeed.

I dunno. I'm not wrapped up in wins and losses.

I want progress.

Cutler learning from his mistakes over the last 5 games and jumping to the next plateau in his development would be a good use of the last half of the season. Re-establishing our commitment to and skill at the running game would be as well. Finding out which young players are keepers and which will need to be replaced could be good. Finding out which VETS need to hit the asphalt could be too.

That's what I'm looking for. Terrible wins will make me far more unhappy than really gutty losses.

This may be the year to cleanse some of our young players through their baptism of fire. I'm all right with that. Cutler could really use that sort of heat, if we can use it to burn out some of those impurities in his game.

Having another Shanahan presser at the end of the year where we're one or two moves away and there's nothing to see here? Don't need one of those.

In the offseason we HAVE to fix what ails us defensively - talent, scheme, both.

But the rest of this year can help clear up just what that is...and how much cleaning we have to do on offense as well.

I look forward to finding out.

~G

Lonestar
11-02-2008, 11:41 PM
Cutler actually threw three TDs if you count that phantom PI call against Marshall.

-----

it was good call and in fact a brilliant one compared to the other 3 I saw today in the other games I was forced to WATCH..

In one the commentator said it caused the CB to lose a step..

In this one the CB's body twitched he was straight armed that hard..

They Refs are calling it so Marshall had better get used to it.. with his brute strength it will get worse before it gets better..

topscribe
11-02-2008, 11:46 PM
it was good call and in fact a brilliant one compared to the other 3 I saw today in the other games I was forced to WATCH..

In one the commentator said it caused the CB to lose a step..

In this one the CB's body twitched he was straight armed that hard..

They Refs are calling it so Marshall had better get used to it.. with his brute strength it will get worse before it gets better..

Not sure we're talking about the same play.

There was some hand-fighting, and it went both ways. They showed the
replay several times. I saw them all. Should Marshall be punished because he
is the stronger of the two? Even the announcers, both of them, had a fit. No,
the call absolutely stunk.

-----

Simple Jaded
11-03-2008, 12:22 AM
One major concern is his turnover ratio is averaging 2-3 turnovers a game. Thats not good at all.
Wait?

He's averaging between 2 and 3 turnovers a game? You're saying he has between 16 and 24 turnovers at the moment? He has 10 INT's, so he has at least 6 to 14 fumbles?

Or are you saying he is averaging more INT's than TD's?

Are you sure about that?

I'm confused......

Devilspawn
11-03-2008, 12:29 AM
He does well against bad defenses. So he's not a bad QB in that he takes care of the business he's supposed to.

The first three weeks, he had 8 TDs and 2 INTs. As a result, Denver had 114 points, just under 40 points per game, and their offense was being compared to New England's of last year. By the way, he played the defenses of Oakland, San Diego and New Orleans. Juggernauts they are not.

The last five weeks, 7 TDs, 8 INTs vs. KC in Arrowhead, Jax, Miami, New England and Tampa. None of those defenses are great, but they are decent to above average.

So now the question is... what happened? Was Cutler's initial success a product of playing two absolutely sh*tty defenses and a fair defense? It's been 5 weeks and Denver is averaging 15.1 points per game. Cutler is a good QB but he is reverting back to the form that most of us have seen, solid in spurts, bonehead in spurts. Not just bonehead in spurts but at key moments in the game.

Northman
11-03-2008, 12:38 AM
Wait?

He's averaging between 2 and 3 turnovers a game? You're saying he has between 16 and 24 turnovers at the moment? He has 10 INT's, so he has at least 6 to 14 fumbles?

Or are you saying he is averaging more INT's than TD's?

Are you sure about that?

I'm confused......


Dont forget about his fumbling.

Simple Jaded
11-03-2008, 12:45 AM
Dont forget about his fumbling.

How many fumbles do you think he has? He must have already set a new NFL record to do what I think you think he's done.

No offense, I'm just really confused......

Lonestar
11-03-2008, 03:04 AM
Not sure we're talking about the same play.

There was some hand-fighting, and it went both ways. They showed the
replay several times. I saw them all. Should Marshall be punished because he
is the stronger of the two? Even the announcers, both of them, had a fit. No,
the call absolutely stunk.

-----
his TD catch when it was reviewed on the NFL network it was real plain to see..

When he pushed off the other player was jolted.. And yes if he uses his strength to push off he should be penalized just like many others are..

If he uses that strength to wrestle a ball away or to out jump the CB then it is not an issue. If he uses it to fight off a tackle by all means but it IMHO was a legit call by the ref from the vantage point I saw an end zone camera..

OrangeStar7
11-03-2008, 03:16 AM
Watching Cutler play football is like watching the best quarterback with down syndrome play.

You know, I like good satire and funny comments and all, but speaking as someone with a family member with down's syndrome, and knowing that it usually results in a heart defect and sometimes with a life expectancy of only 30 years or so, I can't help but feel you're being a little insensitive.

Further, I believe that Jay Cutler will soon be one of the best QBs in the NFL, and that's something VERY FEW completely healthly persons could ever become. Cutler plays like someone who is a future HOF'er IMHO, and does it while managing a serious illness.

No offense to you intended, but I just wish you'd be a little more thoughtful with your comparisons, particulary those using disabilities with which some very loving people in loving families must deal with on a daily basis. Thanks, in advance, for your future accordance!

topscribe
11-03-2008, 04:05 AM
his TD catch when it was reviewed on the NFL network it was real plain to see..

When he pushed off the other player was jolted.. And yes if he uses his strength to push off he should be penalized just like many others are..

If he uses that strength to wrestle a ball away or to out jump the CB then it is not an issue. If he uses it to fight off a tackle by all means but it IMHO was a legit call by the ref from the vantage point I saw an end zone camera..

Actually, I watched again, and you're right, in that the last shot usually gets
the call, and it was no different this time. There was a lot of hand-fighting,
and Marshall won the hand-fight with the blow that separated him. It still
should have been a non-call, IMO, but for the "last shot" thing.

The regrettable thing about it was that Marshall didn't even have to do that
to catch that pass, it was so perfectly thrown. he didn't even have to break
stride.

The point is, however, that Cutler in effect threw three TDs in his own
performance. That is what I was getting at.

-----

BroncoNut
11-03-2008, 08:34 AM
I am still really impressed with the strength of Jay's arm. He was throwing off of a lot of pressure more than a few times last night. Pass protection was actually pretty good. Have to give credit to the Dolphin pass coverage.

No, Jay doesn't suck, he needs to get through this phase mentally and develop some confidence. I still like him. Both Stokely and Brandon Marshall dropped important passes that should have been caught.

Rex
11-03-2008, 08:36 AM
I am still really impressed with the strength of Jay's arm. He was throwing off of a lot of pressure more than a few times last night. Pass protection was actually pretty good. Have to give credit to the Dolphin pass coverage.

No, Jay doesn't suck, he needs to get through this phase mentally and develop some confidence. I still like him. Both Stokely and Brandon Marshall dropped important passes that should have been caught.

Didnt read a word.

BroncoNut
11-03-2008, 08:48 AM
Didnt read a word.

You should. You might learn something

Cutler6MVP
11-03-2008, 09:05 AM
How about we just say that he doesnt suck, but is playing at about as worse and he possibly can.

Did any of us actually expect to be atop the division right now? Were 4-4 when no one expected us to be 4-4. We still have a chance, and our only chance at winning is for Cutler to get his head on straight and start putting up 30 points a game again. Until this happens, we will lose week in and week out.

OMorange&blue
11-03-2008, 09:08 AM
I am still really impressed with the strength of Jay's arm. He was throwing off of a lot of pressure more than a few times last night. Pass protection was actually pretty good. Have to give credit to the Dolphin pass coverage.

No, Jay doesn't suck, he needs to get through this phase mentally and develop some confidence. I still like him. Both Stokely and Brandon Marshall dropped important passes that should have been caught.

And Royal. Just when cutler gets it together, the receivers get the dropsies.:mad:

BroncoNut
11-03-2008, 09:13 AM
How about we just say that he doesnt suck, but is playing at about as worse and he possibly can.

Did any of us actually expect to be atop the division right now? Were 4-4 when no one expected us to be 4-4. We still have a chance, and our only chance at winning is for Cutler to get his head on straight and start putting up 30 points a game again. Until this happens, we will lose week in and week out.

We are leading in a very competitive division, that is true


Cutler could be playing worse. He could have run the wrong way and scored points for the Dolphins yesterday, but he did not

broncofaninfla
11-03-2008, 09:22 AM
Is it just me or does it seem like Cutler just isn't having fun? He seems to play without passion, like he isn't happy playing football or happy playing for the Broncos. I was honestly happy to see him upset after the horrible call against Marshall. I know throwing picks and losing is never fun but if he enjoyed playing maybe he would play better? Cutler is an enigma right now. He has the tools just seems like he has some decisions to make and some growing up to do.

Watchthemiddle
11-03-2008, 10:27 AM
Until Cutler finally learns to stop relying so much on his arm, and starts using his brain, we as Bronco fans are going to be in for a long career with him at the QB helm.

I think the entire league will agree on the fact that he has exceptional arm strength, but until he starts using his check downs, stop zero'ing in on WR's, looks off defenders, and stops throwing into to double coverage, this play that we have seen from him in these 4 loses is not going to get any better.

GEM
11-03-2008, 10:30 AM
Agreed. I just think that most people mean, "Cutler sucks RIGHT NOW" and not "FOREVER."

He's had as much a hand in our last month of losses as the defense has, and that's saying A LOT.

Elway turned the ball over a lot early in his career when he was trying to do everything...but he HAD to do everything. Winder and Willhite weren't gonna win us any games.

John became a winner once Shanny got here, got him some weapons, and let him run a West Coast offense that didn't require him to do everything. John's turnovers went down, his efficiency went up, and he had the best years of his career as the last years of his career.

Imagine what he could have done with a WC offense from the start. It boggles the mind.

Cutler HAS a WC offense from the start. He has one of the 3 best receivers in the land in Marshall, probably the best rookie receiver in Royal, a 3rd down weapon in Stokley, a TE receiving weapon whenever Scheff can stay healthy, and until recently a decent-to-good running attack. He's not getting sacked.

The turnovers are killing us because he's under FAR less duress than someone like Elway was. They're unnecessary. If Jay just does what he's supposed to do, checks down his reads, makes his throws, hands the ball off and inspires his guys, we'll be fine.

I'd like to know why he can't do that. The OL is starting to fail as a run-blocking unit, which is to be expected - zone blocking is a hard thing to master the way we do it, so all our young starters like Harris and Clady haven't got it yet. But Hamilton, Wiegmann and Kuper have all been in the league long enough to theoretically have mastered it now, and all of them are getting owned up front in the run game, the old guys Hamilton and Wiegmann especially. That has to be fixed.

But even if we can't run, if Cutler is staying on his feet most of the game then he should be able to avoid throwing it to the other guys.

It's not too much to ask.

~G


I was saying the same thing yesterday as the bolded section. We're all so all over the defense, at some point we have to look at the person who is keeping that defense on the field. :tsk:

Watchthemiddle
11-03-2008, 10:34 AM
I was saying the same thing yesterday as the bolded section. We're all so all over the defense, at some point we have to look at the person who is keeping that defense on the field. :tsk:

Exactly!!

After just reading mtn_mans article, I was shocked to see that the offense only had 10 minutes of possession in the first half.

Buff
11-03-2008, 10:35 AM
Is it just me or does it seem like Cutler just isn't having fun? He seems to play without passion, like he isn't happy playing football or happy playing for the Broncos. I was honestly happy to see him upset after the horrible call against Marshall. I know throwing picks and losing is never fun but if he enjoyed playing maybe he would play better? Cutler is an enigma right now. He has the tools just seems like he has some decisions to make and some growing up to do.

Agreed, he looks like the job has beaten him down over the past 3 months. He just seems bitter and aloof. That post-game press conference in New England was somewhat understandable given how that game turned out, but it doesn't seem like he's snapped out of that mindset. He reminds me of Jake Plummer right now-- just annoyed by the constant pressure put on by fans, coaches and media. Which is no attitude for a starting NFL QB.

claymore
11-03-2008, 10:38 AM
Agreed, he looks like the job has beaten him down over the past 3 months. He just seems bitter and aloof. That post-game press conference in New England was somewhat understandable given how that game turned out, but it doesn't seem like he's snapped out of that mindset. He reminds me of Jake Plummer right now-- just annoyed by the constant pressure put on by fans, coaches and media. Which is no attitude for a starting NFL QB.

Im curious if Marshall is a bad influence on him.

Watchthemiddle
11-03-2008, 10:39 AM
Agreed, he looks like the job has beaten him down over the past 3 months. He just seems bitter and aloof. That post-game press conference in New England was somewhat understandable given how that game turned out, but it doesn't seem like he's snapped out of that mindset. He reminds me of Jake Plummer right now-- just annoyed by the constant pressure put on by fans, coaches and media. Which is no attitude for a starting NFL QB.

Well he is going to need to get over it. This city and its fans expect perfection out of its QB. So far he is not handling the pressure puton by the fans, coaches, and media.

Starting the game 0-5 with 2 int's isn't going to gain him any brownie points either. Keeping your defense on the field won't do it either, especially how our D has played this season.

I think there is something to be said about having a veteran leader as your QB. Its interesting to see the teams in the league right now that are on the rise. Miami and the Titans come to mind. Both teams that have veteran QB's that are showing other teams how to win. I never would have thought that after halfway into the season, that Miami and Denver would be going in the opposite directions.

Watchthemiddle
11-03-2008, 10:42 AM
Im curious if Marshall is a bad influence on him.

I am not sure if he is a bad influence on him, but it seems like Jay relies TOO much on Marshall. I saw one bright spot in the game yesterday, and that is when Jay looked to others ( HIllis, Royal ) to get the ball too instead of Marshall. He needs to realize that Marshall is going to be doubled 99% of the time. Time to start spreading the wealth better. It could be the play calling or just Jay focusing on Marshall too much or a combination of both.

Northman
11-03-2008, 10:53 AM
How many fumbles do you think he has? He must have already set a new NFL record to do what I think you think he's done.

No offense, I'm just really confused......


Well, he has 3 fumbles (actually 4 counting the one that Hochuli goofed on) and 10 Ints in 8 games this year. Thats a lot of turnovers for one guy man. You can spin it however you like but that is not very good no matter how you look at it and it is a cause for concern. Look at the similiar stats with Culpepper during his first 28 games.

Duante Culpepper: 28 fumbles, 29 Ints

Jay Cutler: 22 fumbles, 29 Ints


Now granted, both Qb's were/are young but those numbers for not taking care of the ball are very alarming. Do i think Jay is worlds better than Daunte? Sure. But the trend im seeing doesnt look bright right now.

topscribe
11-03-2008, 11:30 AM
Agreed, he looks like the job has beaten him down over the past 3 months. He just seems bitter and aloof. That post-game press conference in New England was somewhat understandable given how that game turned out, but it doesn't seem like he's snapped out of that mindset. He reminds me of Jake Plummer right now-- just annoyed by the constant pressure put on by fans, coaches and media. Which is no attitude for a starting NFL QB.

Jay is a competitor. I'm sure he takes losses hard. He has an obligation to be
there for the presser, as I understand, but I wouldn't want to be there, either.
I would be more worried if he were to bounce in there all grins and bubbles.

I wouldn't make too much of it. He just lost a game, for pity's sake . . .

-----

topscribe
11-03-2008, 11:36 AM
I am not sure if he is a bad influence on him, but it seems like Jay relies TOO much on Marshall. I saw one bright spot in the game yesterday, and that is when Jay looked to others ( HIllis, Royal ) to get the ball too instead of Marshall. He needs to realize that Marshall is going to be doubled 99% of the time. Time to start spreading the wealth better. It could be the play calling or just Jay focusing on Marshall too much or a combination of both.

Jay needs Scheffler badly. Once Scheff is back, then they can make the
defense pay for doubling Marshall. Sure, Fast Eddie and Stokes helped, but
they are not the threat down the deep middle that Scheffler is.

The other factor is the running game. If they can get that going again, then
that will help to open things up for Marshall, too. As BMarsh said, when the
defense goes into a Cover 2, they can make the defense pay by pounding
with the run. I think, once Torain is in football shape and has adjusted to the
speed of the pro game, we will see that. He has the tools to make defenses
fear the run once again.

That's my nonsense for the day . . .

-----

Medford Bronco
11-03-2008, 11:41 AM
I just wish Jay would stop being a turnover machine.

The Broncos will never win if he does this week in and week out.

Too much about the strong arm crap. A smart QB with an average arm
always beats a average QB with a strong arm that is not as smart with the ball.

I hope he grows out of this. I think he has the ability to do so but
needs to change fast if this season is to be salvaged.

We shall see what happens

topscribe
11-03-2008, 11:46 AM
I just wish Jay would stop being a turnover machine.

The Broncos will never win if he does this week in and week out.

Too much about the strong arm crap. A smart QB with an average arm
always beats a average QB that is not as smart with the ball.

I hope he grows out of this. I think he has the ability to do so but
needs to change fast if this season is to be salvaged.

We shall see what happens

We saw that yesterday, didn't we? Cutler would do well to learn from Pennington. :nod:

-----

GEM
11-03-2008, 11:52 AM
I just wish Jay would stop being a turnover machine.

The Broncos will never win if he does this week in and week out.

Too much about the strong arm crap. A smart QB with an average arm
always beats a average QB with a strong arm that is not as smart with the ball.

I hope he grows out of this. I think he has the ability to do so but
needs to change fast if this season is to be salvaged.

We shall see what happens

He needs to check his ego at the door.

Lonestar
11-03-2008, 11:53 AM
Agreed, he looks like the job has beaten him down over the past 3 months. He just seems bitter and aloof. That post-game press conference in New England was somewhat understandable given how that game turned out, but it doesn't seem like he's snapped out of that mindset. He reminds me of Jake Plummer right now-- just annoyed by the constant pressure put on by fans, coaches and media. Which is no attitude for a starting NFL QB.


reading through some of these posts this thought came to min at Vandy he was hero because he made alot out of a NADA team..

Here he has a alot of tools to surround him, on a much bigger stage.. Can he handle the pressure of this being Johns team/city..

I also wondered yesterday if indeed his blood sugar was out of whack in the first quarter when he for lack of a better term he sunk the ship.. His throws were off and he was pressing it..

Now he might have been better the rest of the way but that was about all the game I got to see on the steaming video that gave me a computer virus..

SO the rest of the game I was without TV and computer while I restored and scanned until late last night....

Something is not right in dove valley for Jay lets hope we get this sortted out before it is to late to salvage his stay here..

Day1BroncoFan
11-03-2008, 11:54 AM
This entire team including Cutler is in total suck mode right now.

Medford Bronco
11-03-2008, 11:54 AM
He needs to check his ego at the door.

You mean stop trying to be Jeff George. He looks like him so much.

A talented strong arm stiff who does not win.

GEM
11-03-2008, 11:57 AM
You mean stop trying to be Jeff George. He looks like him so much.

A talented strong arm stiff who does not win.

The whole "My arm is stronger than Elways" comment still bothers me. That isn't the way to win the fans around here. Wins will win the fans. I guess he didn't soak up he first 3 weeks when everyone loved him. Perhaps he needed to be brought back down to earth.

Lonestar
11-03-2008, 11:59 AM
He needs to check his ego at the door.

I think the NFL is doing that for him.. Lets hope he can work trough it and he does not become another greasy beating himself up after making mistakes..

Setting on the sidelines by himself and not allowing teammates into his space to console/commiserate with him..

GEM
11-03-2008, 12:08 PM
I think the NFL is doing that for him.. Lets hope he can work trough it and he does not become another greasy beating himself up after making mistakes..

Setting on the sidelines by himself and not allowing teammates into his space to console/commiserate with him..

That bugs the hell outta me. I think my favorite qb right now is Drew Brees. The way that guy leads his team is awesome. He's a player's player. He's not above or beneath anyone on that team and he shows it. When I see Cutler on the sideline all I see is a spoiled brat who thinks he's better than everyone around him. :coffee:

topscribe
11-03-2008, 12:13 PM
The whole "My arm is stronger than Elways" comment still bothers me. That isn't the way to win the fans around here. Wins will win the fans. I guess he didn't soak up he first 3 weeks when everyone loved him. Perhaps he needed to be brought back down to earth.

GEM, that has been discussed thoroughly. He said that with a grin on his face,
after he was pumped by a reporter. While most reported only that he said it,
one reporter had the integrity to provide the whole story on it.

Then Vic Lombardi got him to talking about it on his show, and Cutler broke
into a sheepish grin and said something to the effect of, "Yeah, since I said it,
I supposed I'll have to stand by it."

So Cutler didn't just offer that out of the blue. It was in response to pumping
from reporters, and it was originally tongue-in-cheek.

We have to learn to read between the lines anymore. There just isn't such
a thing as "journalism" anymore. :tsk:

-----

GEM
11-03-2008, 12:46 PM
GEM, that has been discussed thoroughly. He said that with a grin on his face,
after he was pumped by a reporter. While most reported only that he said it,
one reporter had the integrity to provide the whole story on it.

Then Vic Lombardi got him to talking about it on his show, and Cutler broke
into a sheepish grin and said something to the effect of, "Yeah, since I said it,
I supposed I'll have to stand by it."

So Cutler didn't just offer that out of the blue. It was in response to pumping
from reporters, and it was originally tongue-in-cheek.

We have to learn to read between the lines anymore. There just isn't such
a thing as "journalism" anymore. :tsk:

-----


Perhaps I didn't catch that part so I'll concede that. My opinion is that he has an ego that he needs to keep in check until his record and play back up the ego. :shrugs:

Hell, we'd all be stupid not to see the talent, but what good is talent if it is misused. I saw a plus in yesterday's game, he didn't stare down Marshall. I have been thinking that he does that way too often, he got out of it yesterday. Unfortunately, he got INT 3 times, but I would imagine it did a lot for him to realize there are other guys out there that can make some plays.

BroncoNut
11-03-2008, 01:04 PM
Marshall was open and should have been passed to a few times. Jay was overcompensating on his past in staring down Marshall too much, imo. He still needs to work on checking receiver's down.

topscribe
11-03-2008, 01:20 PM
Perhaps I didn't catch that part so I'll concede that. My opinion is that he has an ego that he needs to keep in check until his record and play back up the ego. :shrugs:

Hell, we'd all be stupid not to see the talent, but what good is talent if it is misused. I saw a plus in yesterday's game, he didn't stare down Marshall. I have been thinking that he does that way too often, he got out of it yesterday. Unfortunately, he got INT 3 times, but I would imagine it did a lot for him to realize there are other guys out there that can make some plays.

I can offer 14 reasons for at least part of the responsibility for those INTs.
Fourteen yards rushing. If they can't run the ball, then the other team will be
laying back, just waiting for the pass, because that's all the offense can do.
Run or pass. That's it. If they can't do one, they're in trouble for the other.

I'll tell you, though, I'm really tickled with that offensive line, especially the
tackles, with Porter & co. pinning their ears back the whole game. One sack,
and that was allowed not by a tackle, but by the TE. By all rights, the
Dolphins should have walked out of their with six sacks under their collective
belts. They had one.

Man, that is one terrific offensive line . . for the passing game. Now, they
need to work on run blocking. It'll come . . .

(Sorry . . . rambled off-topic a little.)

-----

BroncoJoe
11-03-2008, 01:31 PM
I can offer 14 reasons for at least part of the responsibility for those INTs.
Fourteen yards rushing. If they can't run the ball, then the other team will be
laying back, just waiting for the pass, because that's all the offense can do.
Run or pass. That's it. If they can't do one, they're in trouble for the other.

I'll tell you, though, I'm really tickled with that offensive line, especially the
tackles, with Porter & co. pinning their ears back the whole game. One sack,
and that was allowed not by a tackle, but by the TE. By all rights, the
Dolphins should have walked out of their with six sacks under their collective
belts. They had one.

Man, that is one terrific offensive line . . for the passing game. Now, they
need to work on run blocking. It'll come . . .

(Sorry . . . rambled off-topic a little.)

-----

I could live with what you've said in regard to the INT's, BUT - to start the game, before we even tried running the ball, Jay was 0-5 with 2 INT's.

IIRC...

jrelway
11-03-2008, 01:39 PM
That bugs the hell outta me. I think my favorite qb right now is Drew Brees. The way that guy leads his team is awesome. He's a player's player. He's not above or beneath anyone on that team and he shows it. When I see Cutler on the sideline all I see is a spoiled brat who thinks he's better than everyone around him. :coffee:

i used to hate the ******* when he was on the chargers. but that is what a true leader is. the way he fires his team up before the game, plays lights out...drews all class. i dont think i ever saw him rolling his eyes at a press conference.

jrelway
11-03-2008, 01:41 PM
jay has all damn day to throw the ball. the way our O line is pass protecting is the only bright spot on our team. he needs to throw the ball away sometime instead of throwing into double coverage. that pick 6 yesterday was just awful.

LRtagger
11-03-2008, 02:17 PM
Maybe Cutler should grow a beard or a molestache

Day1BroncoFan
11-03-2008, 02:33 PM
I'd be satisfied if he just stopped throwing Ints and fumbling.

JakeGirl
11-03-2008, 04:50 PM
Cutler makes some of the dumbest decisions ive ever seen, he looks worse than Plummer lately. That is what im getting at with that comment.

JakeGirl protests. AT LEAST JAKE WON GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

JakeGirl
11-03-2008, 04:54 PM
mobster -

I don't think anybody's trying to trade Jay for Matt Leinart or Alex Smith. But there are games that are on the head of the guy with the ball in his hand on every play.

This was one of those games.

John had those games (a LOT of those games with the horrible Reeves offense working against him), but after a few years his teammates got to know that if they would keep the game close, John would do what he does.

They believed in their QB.

Nobody believes Jay is bringing us back from the brink of defeat right now. The SD game wasn't that long ago but it sure feels like forever. This offense does not resemble that offense.

And Jay Cutler does not look like a man in control of himself and the situation.

More and more he looks like Marino and not Elway emotionally. Marino used to berate his teammates for their failures whenever something went wrong and he didn't look like a million bucks.

I would not consider Dan Marino a great leader. Terrific QB skills, great arm, but not exactly an inspirer.

Cutler has that about him. He's fine when things are on rails and going well but when the wheels start to come off it sure looks like his teammates don't exactly want to be around him to start the rally.

That spells trouble.

We either need to be in the lead more often (Miami's solution to the Marino Leadership Problem) or we're gonna have to get in an offensive leader, because right now we don't have anyone - offense OR defense - who can stem the tide when things start to go against us and things look bleak.

Our team leadership isn't there.

If we're gonna play from ahead all the time to mitigate this problem, then Cutler needs to stop imitating Plummer and doing stupid things that cost us possessions and touchdowns every game.

If we're not, then we need a better D and some better leaders. Because watching the offense pack it in is getting disheartening.

~G


Jakegirl mostly agrees but protests a Major Point! JAKE PLUMMER WAS A LEADER!!!!! (And even when he throw int's, he would rally and win the game most of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) The lockerroom really rallyed behind Jake. I wish I knew where this particular lockerroom was going.....

BroncoJoe
11-03-2008, 04:57 PM
Jakegirl mostly agrees but protests a Major Point! JAKE PLUMMER WAS A LEADER!!!!! (And even when he throw int's, he would rally and win the game most of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) The lockerroom really rallyed behind Jake. I wish I knew where this particular lockerroom was going.....

You really are Jake's girl.

Medford Bronco
11-03-2008, 04:57 PM
JakeGirl protests. AT LEAST JAKE WON GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

Does Jake play LB, CB, Safety or RB
as those are the injury problems this season.

JakeGirl
11-03-2008, 05:15 PM
Is it just me or does it seem like Cutler just isn't having fun? He seems to play without passion, like he isn't happy playing football or happy playing for the Broncos. I was honestly happy to see him upset after the horrible call against Marshall. I know throwing picks and losing is never fun but if he enjoyed playing maybe he would play better? Cutler is an enigma right now. He has the tools just seems like he has some decisions to make and some growing up to do.

Remember that people said the same thing about ELI MANNING. And look what he eventually turned into!!!!!!!! :-):D

LRtagger
11-03-2008, 05:18 PM
You really are Jake's girl.

Well, she has one thing going for her....you can get Plummer jerseys for like 50 cents now.

JakeGirl
11-03-2008, 05:34 PM
Agreed, he looks like the job has beaten him down over the past 3 months. He just seems bitter and aloof. That post-game press conference in New England was somewhat understandable given how that game turned out, but it doesn't seem like he's snapped out of that mindset. He reminds me of Jake Plummer right now-- just annoyed by the constant pressure put on by fans, coaches and media. Which is no attitude for a starting NFL QB.

The Jake of 2006, but the Jake of 2003-2005 was *not* like that. Jake brought energy and excitement to the field - even Jake-Haters have to admit that. Jay seems to be feeding off a really bad vibe right now - not sure what it is, or why Shanny can't seem to turn it around. Maybe Shanny should drop his drawers at halftime aka Mike Singletary and see how it goes!!! :-)

JakeGirl
11-03-2008, 05:35 PM
Well, she has one thing going for her....you can get Plummer jerseys for like 50 cents now.

I know! All I need now is my Jake Cardinals Jersey - or maybe a KURT WARNER Jersey since the Cards are doing so well right now!! LOL!

JakeGirl
11-03-2008, 05:38 PM
Maybe Cutler should grow a beard or a molestache

THAT's it! That's the solution! See, when Jake shaved his beard he lost his mojo in 2006. The Porn-stash is the answer JAY!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

Medford Bronco
11-03-2008, 05:40 PM
I know! All I need now is my Jake Cardinals Jersey - or maybe a KURT WARNER Jersey since the Cards are doing so well right now!! LOL!

I hope Arizona makes the playoffs and wins 10 games in a season for the first time since 1976. ouch it has been a long long time for the Cards to be good.

Simple Jaded
11-03-2008, 07:37 PM
Well, he has 3 fumbles (actually 4 counting the one that Hochuli goofed on) and 10 Ints in 8 games this year. Thats a lot of turnovers for one guy man. You can spin it however you like but that is not very good no matter how you look at it and it is a cause for concern. Look at the similiar stats with Culpepper during his first 28 games.

Duante Culpepper: 28 fumbles, 29 Ints

Jay Cutler: 22 fumbles, 29 Ints


Now granted, both Qb's were/are young but those numbers for not taking care of the ball are very alarming. Do i think Jay is worlds better than Daunte? Sure. But the trend im seeing doesnt look bright right now.

I thought you meant his season totals, just ignore me......

nevcraw
11-03-2008, 08:00 PM
JakeGirl protests. AT LEAST JAKE WON GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

Jake did not win games, he just ran out of time on his way to losing..

Northman
11-04-2008, 05:01 AM
Well, she has one thing going for her....you can get Plummer jerseys for like 50 cents now.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Lonestar
11-04-2008, 10:30 PM
was just made priviy to a thread going on on the bolts site which if indeed it true is scary..

Originally Posted by Kaylore
Jay needs to quit going out and getting hammered the night before games. I have some friends that go out a lot and they see him drinking all the time. He's nice to them, but its obviously not something you should be doing especially right before the game. Last year the night before the Chargers game he was getting hammered and we all know how that ended.

Personally I think that's his problem. He has great protection and great receivers. Is he missing Tony Scheffler? Yes. Do we lack a consistent rushing game? Yes. That said, he has more than most of the QB's in the league have to work with and he's not been getting it done. We know he can, but I think he needs to fix whatever's going on between his ears or he's going to continue to slide like he is.

http://forum.signonsandiego.com/showthread.php?p=3364706#post3364706

http://www.thedirty.com/?p=34914



Food for thought folks..

Could this really be true? if so where is the press?..

OMorange&blue
11-04-2008, 10:57 PM
Privy. The word is privy.

OMorange&blue
11-04-2008, 10:58 PM
And the Mane is not a Bolts site. k thanks bye.

BeefStew25
11-04-2008, 10:59 PM
Newsflash: Football player drinks beer!

OMorange&blue
11-04-2008, 11:00 PM
Awesome.

G_Money
11-04-2008, 11:30 PM
Elway felt like you weren't his teammate if you didn't have a beer with him.

Cutler's just trying to show he can drink harder than John too.

~G

topscribe
11-04-2008, 11:49 PM
Privy. The word is privy.

We don't need spelling police here. Let the typos go.

-----

OMorange&blue
11-04-2008, 11:57 PM
k thanks bye.

SmilinAssasSin27
11-05-2008, 12:24 AM
That beer is the devil's juice.

Cutler6MVP
11-06-2008, 11:26 PM
Well, thats the player we need to show up every week. If it wasnt for marshalls dumb route running, he would have no blemishes.

Although I have to admit, he got lucky a lot. There were A LOT of STUPID decisions being made by him tonight. Boy did he look great at the end though!

Rex
11-06-2008, 11:27 PM
Well, thats the player we need to show up every week. If it wasnt for marshalls dumb route running, he would have no blemishes.

Although I have to admit, he got lucky a lot. There were A LOT of STUPID decisions being made by him tonight. Boy did he look great at the end though!

thankful of dropped interceptions.

lex
11-07-2008, 12:10 AM
Blaming the running game just isnt going to work. Most of the personnel decisions were aimed at improving the passing game, meanwhile, weve been trying to get by on low round talent (namely interior OL and RB) in the running game for a while. No, we became a passing team this past offseason. Its a choice we made and one we're living with now. In the long run it could be helpful to put it all on Jays back but along with that, we're having to live with some inconsistencies that can be classified as growing pains.

What needs to happen started to happen today. Jay has been forcing the ball to Marshall too much for too long and today he was finally forced to look to other targets. The end result was Hillis having a great game and Royal also having a solid game. I actually thought Jay played a good last 3 quarters for this reason. What he experienced today was necessary if he is going to take that next step. People should be glad about what happened even though it would have been nice to get a win.

But regarding blaming the running game, the running game now spins off of the passing game because we pinned all our hopes on Jay who needs to fight through some issues now in order to grow as a QB.

bump

Simple Jaded
11-08-2008, 03:41 AM
Newsflash: Football player drinks beer!

Jay Cutler drinks Coors Light? There's yer problem.......

Italianmobstr7
11-08-2008, 04:02 AM
Wow, Jay Cutler the best qb with down syndrome? I know that's a week old post, but really? So many haters because of a couple bad games. People need to support our franchise QB. He's going to be a star for years to come!

topscribe
11-08-2008, 12:01 PM
The whole "My arm is stronger than Elways" comment still bothers me. That isn't the way to win the fans around here. Wins will win the fans. I guess he didn't soak up he first 3 weeks when everyone loved him. Perhaps he needed to be brought back down to earth.

It bothers you only because you probably have not seen the interviews not
read all the reports. Cutler was pumped for that by a reporter, and he
responded with a grin and a tongue-in-cheek demeanor. Later on his show,
Vic Lombardi asked him about it again, and Cutler was like, yeah, if you want
me to stand behind it, I will stand behind it. None of it was very serious to him.

The way it was reported to us by others just was not very honest, which is
typical of reporters. They don't report anymore; they sensationalize.

-----

G_Money
11-08-2008, 12:12 PM
Cutler had his chance to back away from the comment, to change his stance, to be gracious to all the hard-headed fans who think Elway can do no wrong now that he's retired and that Jay still has a long way to go to be mentioned with Elway.

On national television, they asked him if he wanted to take it back. He could have said, "The whole thing was said in jest. I don't want to be compared to Elway until my teammates and I have won a championship or two, and that's what we're working toward now." Instead, he got his back up because he's the sort of kid who can't back down from anything, and said, "No, I said it, I stand by it." Which is why it's still a headache for his image.

Cutler can't back down. That's why he keeps getting picked. He has never bought into the phrase, "Discretion is the better part of valor." Nor "live to fight another day." He wants to live or die this day, on this play.

As he gets older, he should get wiser. I expect him to.

In the meantime we just live with eye-rolls and stupid comments and interceptions while he finds his way.

I can live with em, anyway. ;) I think the outcome will eventually be well worth it. Elway himself had the same problems, whether those who have deified Elway remember them correctly or not.

Still, Cutler doesn't have a stronger arm than Elway. Dammit Jay, if you're gonna brag even in jest, do it about something right. You have way better hair.

~G

NightTrainLayne
11-08-2008, 12:20 PM
Cutler had his chance to back away from the comment, to change his stance, to be gracious to all the hard-headed fans who think Elway can do no wrong now that he's retired and that Jay still has a long way to go to be mentioned with Elway.

On national television, they asked him if he wanted to take it back. He could have said, "The whole thing was said in jest. I don't want to be compared to Elway until my teammates and I have won a championship or two, and that's what we're working toward now." Instead, he got his back up because he's the sort of kid who can't back down from anything, and said, "No, I said it, I stand by it." Which is why it's still a headache for his image.

Cutler can't back down. That's why he keeps getting picked. He has never bought into the phrase, "Discretion is the better part of valor." Nor "live to fight another day." He wants to live or die this day, on this play.

As he gets older, he should get wiser. I expect him to.

In the meantime we just live with eye-rolls and stupid comments and interceptions while he finds his way.

I can live with em, anyway. ;) I think the outcome will eventually be well worth it. Elway himself had the same problems, whether those who have deified Elway remember them correctly or not.

Still, Cutler doesn't have a stronger arm than Elway. Dammit Jay, if you're gonna brag even in jest, do it about something right. You have way better hair.

~G

Well, G, to be fair Cutler did say with a grin on his face, "I guess I said it, so I guess I have to stand by it."

I think your right on track that he will grow out of this. It should be expected for him to have some growing pains. It is only his 2nd full season, and if he had any HC besides Shanny the expectations wouldn't be so high.

He just needs another year or two of growth and he will be able to put all that potential to work.

Us Bronco fans are just spoiled, and have unrealistic expectations. He'll be alright.

Lonestar
11-08-2008, 12:21 PM
It bothers you only because you probably have not seen the interviews not
read all the reports. Cutler was pumped for that by a reporter, and he
responded with a grin and a tongue-in-cheek demeanor. Later on his show,
Vic Lombardi asked him about it again, and Cutler was like, yeah, if you want
me to stand behind it, I will stand behind it. None of it was very serious to him.

The way it was reported to us by others just was not very honest, which is
typical of reporters. They don't report anymore; they sensationalize.

-----

I do not get the local shows that show this type of stuff..
but I have to wonder if this aloofness is part of what is/was ailing him in his poor decision making the past 6 weeks or so..

It could also be a brazen attitude that I can do anything, maybe accomplish anything is a better term.. But he seems to force the ball into areas that are ripe for the PICK.. Folks mentioned in this past game there were 4-5 potential picks that did not happen because of the play of the WR's breaking up the play, now I did not see but one of them.. But will go with those comments made on here..

IMO there is something not right with him, over confidence, not looking off receivers, maybe he is not truly right on his meds and there was even a report the other day on the mane by Kaylore, that had Jay out getting blitzed the night before games..

Anyone else seen this type of stuff. Maybe he just needs to grow up.. John had to be benched a couple of times for making bad choices on the field, not that we have a Gary to go to..

I do not know folks there was not a better QB performance that I have seen lately than in the last quarter of the game on Thursday. But the question is which Jay shows up against ATL..

BroncoNut
11-08-2008, 12:26 PM
jay will be fine. He just needs to settle into his game.

NightTrainLayne
11-08-2008, 01:08 PM
. . .maybe he is not truly right on his meds and there was even a report the other day on the mane by Kaylore, that had Jay out getting blitzed the night before games..


The other day there was a report about NFL teams having private eye's and security folks following players.

It included the Broncos Head of Security stating that he is often at the clubs keeping an eye on the players.

But the same week we hear how Cutler is getting drunk the night before the game?

They can't both be right, or if they are the coaching staff is well aware of what Cutler is out doing.

This seems like another silly "my sister's, boyfriend's, cousin's, friend's mother" type of story.

Day1BroncoFan
11-08-2008, 01:16 PM
I think Cutler will be OK.

I haven't found yet where anyone can say whether or not he does or doesn't have a stronger arm than Elway. Does anyone actually know one way or the other? I haven't read every single post in this thread.

Lonestar
11-08-2008, 01:28 PM
The other day there was a report about NFL teams having private eye's and security folks following players.

It included the Broncos Head of Security stating that he is often at the clubs keeping an eye on the players.

But the same week we hear how Cutler is getting drunk the night before the game?

They can't both be right, or if they are the coaching staff is well aware of what Cutler is out doing.

This seems like another silly "my sister's, boyfriend's, cousin's, friend's mother" type of story.


Normally I'd say something like that but I consider Kaylore a great source..

NightTrainLayne
11-08-2008, 01:30 PM
Normally I'd say something like that but I consider Kaylore a great source..

I agree, Kaylore is a reliable source.

But if I remember right, it wasn't Kaylore that saw this, but his "friends" right?

Lonestar
11-08-2008, 01:38 PM
I agree, Kaylore is a reliable source.

But if I remember right, it wasn't Kaylore that saw this, but his "friends" right?


Yep here it is again


Originally Posted by Kaylore
Jay needs to quit going out and getting hammered the night before games. I have some friends that go out a lot and they see him drinking all the time. He's nice to them, but its obviously not something you should be doing especially right before the game. Last year the night before the Chargers game he was getting hammered and we all know how that ended.

Personally I think that's his problem. He has great protection and great receivers. Is he missing Tony Scheffler? Yes. Do we lack a consistent rushing game? Yes. That said, he has more than most of the QB's in the league have to work with and he's not been getting it done. We know he can, but I think he needs to fix whatever's going on between his ears or he's going to continue to slide like he is.


I have Always found him to be a great source and rarely wrong, so I'm not sure what to believe..

Day1BroncoFan
11-08-2008, 02:20 PM
If Jay is out drinking with him having type 1 diabetes he is a ticking time bomb waiting to die, sooner rather than later. I have to doubt this is true considering the diabetes.

nevcraw
11-08-2008, 02:28 PM
maybe it's me (someone who tore it up for a long time) and still managed to work hard and have a pretty respectable career but who really gives a **** what he does in his down time??
These are still single young men in their primes. give them a break and stop Suffocating the shit of them.
Kaylore can be the the most reliable human being in the world but who is he to say that because his drunk friends see jay out all of the time it must be hurting his game on the field.. Are all NFL fans/city's so judgmental or is only in Denver? I wouldn't know because Ive only been loyal to this team but it as always seem to me that a portion of fans of the Broncos and the local media are so quick to flip from addoring praise to mean and nasty like stalkers.. Just doesn't seem right..

Lonestar
11-08-2008, 02:34 PM
maybe it's me (someone who tore it up for a long time) and still managed to work hard and have a pretty respectable career but who really gives a **** what he does in his down time??
These are still single young men in their primes. give them a break and stop Suffocating the shit of them.
Kaylore can be the the most reliable human being in the world but who is he to say that because his drunk friends see jay out all of the time it must be hurting his game on the field.. Are all NFL fans/city's so judgmental or is only in Denver? I wouldn't know because Ive only been loyal to this team but it as always seem to me that a portion of fans of the Broncos and the local media are so quick to flip from addoring praise to mean and nasty like stalkers.. Just doesn't seem right..

Most folks on here are trying to figure out what is going on with OUR QB.. nothing more nothing less.

He does have huge shoes to fill no doubt and his comments whether in Jest or not about arm strength did not set well with some fans..

BroncoNut
11-08-2008, 02:40 PM
I think Cutler will be OK.

I haven't found yet where anyone can say whether or not he does or doesn't have a stronger arm than Elway. Does anyone actually know one way or the other? I haven't read every single post in this thread.

I didn't see much at all, if anything, of Elway's 3rd year in the league, but the way Jay can strong arm that bad boy on his heels impresses the ish outta me. Personally, I don't think who has the stronger gun is a concern at all. they both have more than adequate strength there. Jay's got alot to live up to if he compares himself to John Elway again. cept he did beat elway with most passing yards in a game the other night. I'll give him that

Lonestar
11-08-2008, 03:06 PM
I didn't see much at all, if anything, of Elway's 3rd year in the league, but the way Jay can strong arm that bad boy on his heels impresses the ish outta me. Personally, I don't think who has the stronger gun is a concern at all. they both have more than adequate strength there. Jay's got alot to live up to if he compares himself to John Elway again. cept he did beat elway with most passing yards in a game the other night. I'll give him that


Just remember that 93 of the was ALL Royale.

John really never had this kind of WR talent except the last couple of years and then it does not reach the level of Stokely, Royale and Marshall with a dose of Scheffler tossed in... Rod and Eddie Mac were good possession WRs but not great YAC guys.. They did have all world Sharpe so it was a good set but not as good as we have now..

BroncoNut
11-08-2008, 03:09 PM
Just remember that 93 of the was ALL Royale.

John really never had this kind of WR talent except the last couple of years and then it does not reach the level of Stokely, Royale and Marshall with a dose of Scheffler tossed in... Rod and Eddie Mac were good possession WRs but not great YAC guys.. They did have all world Sharpe so it was a good set but not as good as we have now..

definitely

G_Money
11-08-2008, 04:45 PM
When John finally had good receivers he also had an all-world running game. He didn't have to throw for 400 yards to win in those last years.

It was nice. When we get Cutler a running game again I hope he can stop breaking records and start winning significant games. Marshall, Royal, Scheffler and Stokley look like a TREMENDOUS set of receivers. Imagine how much better they'll be when other teams have to worry about the running game too.

~G

WARHORSE
11-08-2008, 04:57 PM
Just remember that 93 of the was ALL Royale.

John really never had this kind of WR talent except the last couple of years and then it does not reach the level of Stokely, Royale and Marshall with a dose of Scheffler tossed in... Rod and Eddie Mac were good possession WRs but not great YAC guys.. They did have all world Sharpe so it was a good set but not as good as we have now..


This was not all Royal. Cutler put that ball on the money and it goes into his stats. Without the pass, Royal gets nothing.

As with ALL pass stats, the WR is running after the catch. If you connect on a deep ball.......you connect on a deep ball. If you connect on a mid range pass.....and the WR runs into the endzone.......every QB in the league gets those passing yards.

So the stats mean exactly what they mean. 447 yds passing.

Lonestar
11-08-2008, 05:06 PM
This was not all Royal. Cutler put that ball on the money and it goes into his stats. Without the pass, Royal gets nothing.

As with ALL pass stats, the WR is running after the catch. If you connect on a deep ball.......you connect on a deep ball. If you connect on a mid range pass.....and the WR runs into the endzone.......every QB in the league gets those passing yards.

So the stats mean exactly what they mean. 447 yds passing.

while your correct remember that Royale made the single DB miss and he was off to the races.. yes it was a great throw it was royale that made it 93 yards instead to 10 or 12..

Had it been ten then the odds are eh rest of the game would have been different up till then the play on offense was pretty pedestrian.. IMO.

that was the momentum changer.. and it was all royale..

Day1BroncoFan
11-08-2008, 05:23 PM
IIRC that pass would have been for way more than 10-12 yards even if Royal was tackled where he caught the ball.

I will also say that had Jay's pass been more accurate Royal would not have had to slow down to catch it and he wouldn't have needed to put a move on the defender to get the TD.

weazel
11-08-2008, 05:27 PM
Bly dropped an Int too. at least paymah caught his

too bad that doesnt make up for getting torched on the other 12 throws his way

Lonestar
11-08-2008, 05:27 PM
IIRC that pass would have been for way more than 10-12 yards even if Royal was tackled where he caught the ball.

I will also say that had Jay's pass been more accurate Royal would not have had to slow down to catch it and he wouldn't have needed to put a move on the defender to get the TD.


IIRC it was about 10-12 yards down field but, I did not review the game like I have in the past..

If you say it was more I'll believe you and about your analysis of royale having to slow down for it.

I thought is was a good pass may have to go back and EYE ball it again..

Day1BroncoFan
11-08-2008, 05:29 PM
IIRC it was about 10-12 yards down field but, I did not review the game like I have in the past..

If you say it was more I'll believe you and about your analysis of royale having to slow down for it.

I thought is was a good pass may have to go back and EYE ball it again..

I think he caught it at like the 50 or so but I can't say for sure. It was thrown from the 7 by Jay.

Lonestar
11-08-2008, 05:31 PM
I think he caught it at like the 50 or so but I can't say for sure. It was thrown from the 7 by Jay.


It seemed to me more like the 20-25 but I could be wrong.. He was running with that ball for a LOOOOOONG time all by himself.. Maybe I should say a LOOOOOONG distance time was mere seconds just seemed long..

Day1BroncoFan
11-08-2008, 05:38 PM
It seemed to me more like the 20-25 but I could be wrong.. He was running with that ball for a LOOOOOONG time all by himself.. Maybe I should say a LOOOOOONG distance time was mere seconds just seemed long..

I've been trying to find out where he caught the ball at but no luck so far.

EDIT:

OK I found the highlights on NFL.com and Royal caught the ball just outside of the Broncos 35.

Northman
11-08-2008, 05:45 PM
It seemed to me more like the 20-25 but I could be wrong.. He was running with that ball for a LOOOOOONG time all by himself.. Maybe I should say a LOOOOOONG distance time was mere seconds just seemed long..

that was not caught at the 50. :lol:

topscribe
11-08-2008, 05:45 PM
It seemed to me more like the 20-25 but I could be wrong.. He was running with that ball for a LOOOOOONG time all by himself.. Maybe I should say a LOOOOOONG distance time was mere seconds just seemed long..

Cutler was standing on the 2-yardline when he threw the ball, and Royal
caught it at the 36, give or take a yard, according to highlights. Also, Cutler
threw it from the middle of the field (side to side), and Royal caught it on the
sideline. So, without stopping to work out geometric calculations, the ball
went 45 - 50 yards in the air.

-----

Day1BroncoFan
11-08-2008, 05:46 PM
that was not caught at the 50. :lol:

It was at the 35 which still makes it way more than 10-12 yards. More like 27 yards. :laugh:

Northman
11-08-2008, 05:47 PM
It was caught at the 40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL7uMJrTOgM

topscribe
11-08-2008, 05:50 PM
Cutler was standing on the 2-yardline when he threw the ball, and Royal
caught it at the 36, give or take a yard, according to highlights. Also, Cutler
threw it from the middle of the field (side to side), and Royal caught it on the
sideline. So, without stopping to work out geometric calculations, the ball
went 45 - 50 yards in the air.

-----

Corrected.

-----

BroncoJoe
11-08-2008, 05:55 PM
Thrown from the 2, caught at the 37. Cutler was between the hash-marks, so not much more yardage can be added.

Lonestar
11-08-2008, 06:02 PM
OK Jay made a 50 yard yard throw or so and the YAC on this was about 63 yards making it a great run after catch with the catch at the 37-40 Yard line..

Not sure I saw it being a bad throw and Royale having to wait on it .. he did have to adjust more inside on the slant route but it was pretty clean other than that.. IMHO

I remembered it being a LOOOONG run after the catch and thought it was more like a 10-12 deep pass.

My apologies to all for thinking again..

Day1BroncoFan
11-08-2008, 06:19 PM
My apologies to all for thinking again..

Same here.

Northman
11-08-2008, 09:19 PM
OK Jay made a 50 yard yard throw or so and the YAC on this was about 63 yards making it a great run after catch with the catch at the 37-40 Yard line..

Not sure I saw it being a bad throw and Royale having to wait on it .. he did have to adjust more inside on the slant route but it was pretty clean other than that.. IMHO

I remembered it being a LOOOONG run after the catch and thought it was more like a 10-12 deep pass.

My apologies to all for thinking again..


Nothing to apologize for. When i initially saw it i too thought it was a much shorter route than it actually was. Never the less, the pass was perfectly thrown. The defender never looked back and missed on his attempt to break up the pass which led to Royal leaving him to pick up his jock. Of course a little later on that same defender almost got a INT that certainly would have gone to the house. Good thing he had butter fingers.

WARHORSE
11-08-2008, 10:43 PM
while your correct remember that Royale made the single DB miss and he was off to the races.. yes it was a great throw it was royale that made it 93 yards instead to 10 or 12..

Had it been ten then the odds are eh rest of the game would have been different up till then the play on offense was pretty pedestrian.. IMO.

that was the momentum changer.. and it was all royale..

Um nope. Royal didnt make anyone miss. The guy dove trying to make the play, and Royal actually caught the ball while the DB was mid-flight, and the pass was beyond the DBs body.

It was a momentum changer and it was definitely NOT all royal. It was both of them, cause Royal ran a great pass route to sell the slant, and got behind the DB. Cutler put the ball on the money, and Royal simply caught it and ran.

He made no one miss. It was not a ten yard play with Cutlers pass.....it was a touchdown.

WARHORSE
11-08-2008, 10:48 PM
OK Jay made a 50 yard yard throw or so and the YAC on this was about 63 yards making it a great run after catch with the catch at the 37-40 Yard line..

Not sure I saw it being a bad throw and Royale having to wait on it .. he did have to adjust more inside on the slant route but it was pretty clean other than that.. IMHO

I remembered it being a LOOOONG run after the catch and thought it was more like a 10-12 deep pass.

My apologies to all for thinking again..

Thinking aint a problem. But when you make statements that attribute everything to Royal when you havent even actually taken the time to really look at it.......opens you up for an opposing view actually based on the facts..................:coffee:



Just doin my job, thanks. ;)
heh heh

Lonestar
11-09-2008, 02:40 AM
Um nope. Royal didnt make anyone miss. The guy dove trying to make the play, and Royal actually caught the ball while the DB was mid-flight, and the pass was beyond the DBs body.

It was a momentum changer and it was definitely NOT all royal. It was both of them, cause Royal ran a great pass route to sell the slant, and got behind the DB. Cutler put the ball on the money, and Royal simply caught it and ran.

He made no one miss. It was not a ten yard play with Cutlers pass.....it was a touchdown.


Thinking aint a problem. But when you make statements that attribute everything to Royal when you havent even actually taken the time to really look at it.......opens you up for an opposing view actually based on the facts..................:coffee:



Just doin my job, thanks. ;)
heh heh

guess we will have to agree to disagree on whether the defender was trying to make a play on the ball or Royale

Once again because I was busy modding here and not gushing over the tapes of the game I did indeed try to recall what it looked like in my mind..

I still think that Royale made th play and while Jay did indeed get the credit for the 93 yard pass he was not the prime mover in getting all of those YARDS IMHO..

Hopefully he thanked Eddie for making the play..

If you really feel the need to answer this you can have the last word on it..

Night..:salute:

Foochacho
11-09-2008, 02:53 AM
Royal did make the play to get those extra yards, but 447 yards is 447 yards. No matter how they come about. You win some and you lose some. Sometimes Jay misses the open pass that could of been an easy 50 ,60 or 70 yarder. But it was Jay who saw the uneven matchup and who put the ball where Eddie could make the play. Therefore the quarterback always deserves his credit. He was inaccurate on few throws in the game but he also made the right throws to get 447 yards that is all that matters.

broncobryce
11-09-2008, 11:01 AM
Royal did make the play to get those extra yards, but 447 yards is 447 yards. No matter how they come about. You win some and you lose some. Sometimes Jay misses the open pass that could of been an easy 50 ,60 or 70 yarder. But it was Jay who saw the uneven matchup and who put the ball where Eddie could make the play. Therefore the quarterback always deserves his credit. He was inaccurate on few throws in the game but he also made the right throws to get 447 yards that is all that matters.

I agree. We won, Jay willed the team to victory. He played great, everything else is just icing on the cake. I do love how Eddie seems to make a play when the chips are down. That's what we have to have with Marshall being watched like a hawk. I think it's the reason Marshall was open for the winning touchdown. :beer: