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TXBRONC
06-02-2011, 07:07 AM
Q&A: Tebow to Jacksonville for Gabbert? No way
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 06/02/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT


Q: Would the Broncos keep veteran quarterback Kyle Orton after the NFL lockout ends? Or could the Broncos trade Tim Tebow to Jacksonville, his hometown team, for rookie Blaine Gabbert and have Gabbert learn the Denver system behind Orton for a year or two?

A: The Broncos are willing to listen to offers for Orton. But coach John Fox and John Elway , the Broncos' executive vice president of football operations, have said Orton is the team's starting QB. And people in the NFL who know Fox well believe he prefers Orton over Tebow in whatever shape the 2011 season takes — primarily because the Broncos, who are coming off a 4-12 season, want to win now.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18185077

The question smacks of stupidity but the answer is interesting.

chazoe60
06-02-2011, 07:10 AM
What is perpetuating this myth that Orton gives us a better chance to win now? It hasn't worked for two years and Tebow led the offense to more points when he started. I don't see it.

Slick
06-02-2011, 07:23 AM
Broncos want to win now...that's a joke right?

Juriga72
06-02-2011, 07:26 AM
So lets see..... "Both John Fox and John Elway have named Kyle Orton the starter"


right? I saw this yet again.... "Named starter".

MOtorboat
06-02-2011, 07:38 AM
:popcorn:

TXBRONC
06-02-2011, 07:41 AM
I think they want to win now but would that happen with Orton at the helm? I don't know.

Juriga72
06-02-2011, 07:45 AM
I think they want to win now but would that happen with Orton at the helm? I don't know.

I have no idea where they even start to think this...Since Kyle has not ever posted a winning SEASON in 6 years of NFL football.

6 years and he's not finished with a winning record for the year.

MOtorboat
06-02-2011, 07:47 AM
http://www.nopactalent.com/speakerphotos/photos/6843Jake_Delhomme.jpg

chazoe60
06-02-2011, 07:50 AM
http://www.nopactalent.com/speakerphotos/photos/6843Jake_Delhomme.jpg

At least that guy is willing to mentor younger players. I bet he never says "I dont comment on the play of others."

BroncoStud
06-02-2011, 07:58 AM
Yeah, John Fox, those 3 wins sure came in handy for playoff time last season... :laugh:

TXBRONC
06-02-2011, 08:01 AM
http://www.nopactalent.com/speakerphotos/photos/6843Jake_Delhomme.jpg

Cool. I think Delhomme and Orton are mirror images of each other. :D

Dzone
06-02-2011, 08:08 AM
Tebow for Gabbert? No way! We have Tim Tebow!

Dzone
06-02-2011, 08:14 AM
Tebow starting = Broncos lead the league in TV ratings.

Juriga72
06-02-2011, 08:42 AM
Tebow starting = Broncos lead the league in TV ratings.

Orton starting = Some Bronco fans reading up on "The effect of a torn uvula on the throwing motion only on third downs"

SOCALORADO.
06-02-2011, 08:43 AM
Tim Tebows two cents have overruled supreme court decisions.
Tim will start.
orton will be traded.

rcsodak
06-02-2011, 10:54 AM
Tebow starting = Broncos lead the league in TV ratings.

Ooooo boy! :lol:

Davii
06-02-2011, 10:58 AM
Broncos want to win now...that's a joke right?

Want to win now as opposed to during the regular season maybe?

topscribe
06-02-2011, 11:00 AM
What is perpetuating this myth that Orton gives us a better chance to win now? It hasn't worked for two years and Tebow led the offense to more points when he started. I don't see it.

From what the article says, Fox apparently sees it . . .

-----

turftoad
06-02-2011, 11:31 AM
I'd trade both Orton AND Tebow for Gabbert. JMO I think he's the best pure QB i this years draft.

Nomad
06-02-2011, 11:40 AM
I'd trade both Orton AND Tebow for Gabbert. JMO I think he's the best pure QB i this years draft.

Who would you bring in to mentor Gabbert or would he be the starter right out of the gate?

rcsodak
06-02-2011, 12:03 PM
Who would you bring in to mentor Gabbert or would he be the starter right out of the gate?

He would backup bquinn, of course.

turftoad
06-02-2011, 12:10 PM
Who would you bring in to mentor Gabbert or would he be the starter right out of the gate?

Right out of the gate !! IMO we are rebuilding anyway, I would just get him out there.

Nomad
06-02-2011, 12:17 PM
Right out of the gate !! IMO we are rebuilding anyway, I would just get him out there.

You know too bad this lockout is in place because I wonder if Elway would comtemplate a trade like this.

rcsodak
06-02-2011, 12:22 PM
You guys do realize that if you think orton has a low td%, gabbert is even worse. Right?
Spread offense and how many td's did he have? Compare him to his predecessor's numbers, now.
And his arm isn't all that great, compared to locker, mallet, etc.

Pass on gabby.

topscribe
06-02-2011, 12:26 PM
Right out of the gate !! IMO we are rebuilding anyway, I would just get him out there.

I really don't know why some on this board think the Broncos are rebuilding.

Fox doesn't seem to think so . . .

-----

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 12:31 PM
I really don't know why some on this board think the Broncos are rebuilding.

Fox doesn't seem to think so . . .

-----

Overhaul... rebuilding... same diff dude.

The draft certainly pointed to rebuilding on defense..

topscribe
06-02-2011, 12:35 PM
Overhaul... rebuilding... same diff dude.

The draft certainly pointed to rebuilding on defense..

"And people in the NFL who know Fox well believe he prefers Orton over Tebow
in whatever shape the 2011 season takes — primarily because the Broncos, who
are coming off a 4-12 season, want to win now."

Doesn't sound as if Fox thinks so . . .

-----

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 12:36 PM
more..

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17892326?source=rss


The goal, executive vice president John Elway and general Brian Xanders said, is that by the time the NFL draft is over April 30 is to come away with a group of "really, really good football players," including at least four starters.

Speaking at the team's predraft news conference, Elway and Xanders emphasized the need for the Broncos to rebuild the franchise through the draft, not through free agency.

"The core group that's going to help us win for a long time, consistently win, is guys that we pick up through the draft,"



Read more: Elway looks to rebuild Broncos through NFL draft - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17892326?source=rss#ixzz1O8oZz6Cu
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 12:38 PM
"And people in the NFL who know Fox well believe he prefers Orton over Tebow
in whatever shape the 2011 season takes — primarily because the Broncos, who
are coming off a 4-12 season, want to win now."

Doesn't sound as if Fox thinks so . . .

-----

hardly a smoking gun there Top. more cliche type stuff to me..

you are referencing what no named others told a reporter indirectly about what they think John Fox is thinking..

sounds solid.

topscribe
06-02-2011, 12:42 PM
hardly a smoking gun there Top. more cliche type stuff to me..

you are referencing what no named others told a reporter indirectly about what they think John Fox is thinking..

sounds solid.

Except for this is not the only place I have read some about what Fox is thinking.

And if I read it, then it was available to others. So you missed it, then?

-----

GEM
06-02-2011, 12:43 PM
I really don't know why some on this board think the Broncos are rebuilding.

Fox doesn't seem to think so . . .

-----

:lol: The Broncos have been in rebuild for the past 3 years. Of course the team won't say that, but everyone knows it. Unfortunately the tools we had to rebuild weren't used properly and it extended the rebuild perhaps by a few seasons.

turftoad
06-02-2011, 12:44 PM
more..

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17892326?source=rss

This proves it to me for sure.

GEM
06-02-2011, 12:45 PM
"And people in the NFL who know Fox well believe he prefers Orton over Tebow
in whatever shape the 2011 season takes — primarily because the Broncos, who
are coming off a 4-12 season, want to win now."

Doesn't sound as if Fox thinks so . . .

-----

Of course they want to win, everyone wants to win. The question is, do we have the players in place to put us in the best position to win. Who knows until we see the product on the field. But you don't turn around a 4-12 team in an offseason where the team isn't even allowed to meet, much less practice. It all sounds cherry pie, but the reality is this lockout is hurting the Broncos much moreso than a team like the Pansies or the Steelers.

topscribe
06-02-2011, 12:46 PM
:lol: The Broncos have been in rebuild for the past 3 years. Of course the team won't say that, but everyone knows it. Unfortunately the tools we had to rebuild weren't used properly and it extended the rebuild perhaps by a few seasons.

But Fox doesn't seem to know it. You are arguing with Fox.

And he's the Head Coach. He is not the type of person who says one thing and
means another. He is the type of person who wants to win NOW . . . and, you
know what?--He does. Check out his history.

So the one you're laughing at is John Fox.

You know, it's amazing how many people on this board know more about
football than the people in the FO . . .

-----

GEM
06-02-2011, 12:48 PM
But Fox doesn't seem to know it. You are arguing with Fox.

And he's the Head Coach. He is not the type of person who says one thing and
means another. He is the type of person who wants to win NOW . . . and, you
know what?--He does. Check out his history . . .

-----

He is saying exactly what anyone would say. This isn't rocket science. His 2-14 last season says otherwise. The point being wanting to win now, when you haven't even met with the players you expect to win with puts you behind the 8 ball right out of the gate.

Where exactly did I say I know more than the FO? Keep the pot shots to yourself, Top.

turftoad
06-02-2011, 12:48 PM
But Fox doesn't seem to know it. You are arguing with Fox.

And he's the Head Coach. He is not the type of person who says one thing and
means another. He is the type of person who wants to win NOW . . . and, you
know what?--He does. Check out his history . . .

-----

Top, Fox is not the boss, Elway and Xanders are. If thats what they say then we should believe them.

topscribe
06-02-2011, 12:49 PM
He is saying exactly what anyone would say. This isn't rocket science. His 2-14 last season says otherwise. The point being wanting to win now, when you haven't even met with the players you expect to win with puts you behind the 8 ball right out of the gate.

As I said, check out Fox's history.

-----

topscribe
06-02-2011, 12:50 PM
Top, Fox is not the boss, Elway and Xanders are. If thats what they say then we should believe them.

Toad, Fox IS the boss on the field. He is the Head Coach. Elway has already
vividly expressed that he is not going to impose himself on the field. That, in
fact, is why Fox has not walked away from the job by now, I'm certain . . .

-----

GEM
06-02-2011, 12:52 PM
As I said, check out Fox's history.

-----

And as I said, everyone WANTS to win, but you don't turn around a 4-12 team in an offseason where you aren't even allowed to meet with players, much less practice them. Of course he WANTS to win, hell I WANT to win. I don't have high expectations of it because of the talent on this team and because I don't see a team full of young guys pulling together chemistry and the game plan overnight. It takes time to build that, hence the rebuild.

turftoad
06-02-2011, 12:53 PM
Toad, Fox IS the boss on the field. He is the Head Coach. Elway has already
vividly expressed that he is not going to impose himself on the field. That, in
fact, is why Fox has not walked away from the job by now, I'm certain . . .

-----

Exactly my point. He's the boss on the field. On the field where Elway and Xanders are responsible for putting the players on. He is not in charge of personel, Elway and Fox are. Unless i'm mistaken, the President and GM trump the head coach.

chazoe60
06-02-2011, 01:03 PM
How does scoring fewer points and folding in the clutch give you a better chance to win now?

rcsodak
06-02-2011, 01:09 PM
He is saying exactly what anyone would say. This isn't rocket science. His 2-14 last season says otherwise. The point being wanting to win now, when you haven't even met with the players you expect to win with puts you behind the 8 ball right out of the gate.

Where exactly did I say I know more than the FO? Keep the pot shots to yourself, Top.
Winning 2gms was a credit to fox. They dumped talent and never replaced it.
I wonder if they were looking for Luck. :coffee:

topscribe
06-02-2011, 01:22 PM
And as I said, everyone WANTS to win, but you don't turn around a 4-12 team in an offseason where you aren't even allowed to meet with players, much less practice them. Of course he WANTS to win, hell I WANT to win. I don't have high expectations of it because of the talent on this team and because I don't see a team full of young guys pulling together chemistry and the game plan overnight. It takes time to build that, hence the rebuild.

And every one of your statements here is your opinion.

But Fox shows he's done it before. So I'm not so certain as you that he won't.

-----

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 01:22 PM
Except for this is not the only place I have read some about what Fox is thinking.

And if I read it, then it was available to others. So you missed it, then?

-----

please show me the quote of fox saying he is not rebuilding a team and he has his team ready to win now as long as Orton starts.

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 01:26 PM
BTW - I would like to see one quote from any coach saying the are rebuilding.. would be suprised if there is one.
further more if EFX is not rebuilding this team we are we will be looking at more of the same for the next few years. and a new coach after that.

topscribe
06-02-2011, 01:27 PM
Exactly my point. He's the boss on the field. On the field where Elway and Xanders are responsible for putting the players on. He is not in charge of personel, Elway and Fox are. Unless i'm mistaken, the President and GM trump the head coach.

So you think Fox has no input at all, right?

Trust me, they have listened to Fox, and will listen to him, as to what he wants
to work with. It is Fox, McCoy, and Allen who will come up with the schemes,
and they will want certain personnel to implement them. I suppose you could say
Elway and Xanders are a lot of things, but one of them is not stupid. They know,
as everyone here should know, that the Head Coach actually has the final say in
what kind of personnel he wants . . .

-----

topscribe
06-02-2011, 01:28 PM
please show me the quote of fox saying he is not rebuilding a team and he has his team ready to win now as long as Orton starts.

Why should I show you such a quote? I never said that.

You seem to have quite an imagination. :shocked:

-----

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 01:35 PM
I really don't know why some on this board think the Broncos are rebuilding.

Fox doesn't seem to think so . . .

-----

eh hemm..

topscribe
06-02-2011, 01:35 PM
From what the article says, Fox apparently sees it . . .

-----


I really don't know why some on this board think the Broncos are rebuilding.

Fox doesn't seem to think so . . .

-----


"And people in the NFL who know Fox well believe he prefers Orton over Tebow
in whatever shape the 2011 season takes — primarily because the Broncos, who
are coming off a 4-12 season, want to win now."

Doesn't sound as if Fox thinks so . . .

-----


But Fox doesn't seem to know it. You are arguing with Fox.

And he's the Head Coach. He is not the type of person who says one thing and
means another. He is the type of person who wants to win NOW . . . and, you
know what?--He does. Check out his history.

So the one you're laughing at is John Fox.

You know, it's amazing how many people on this board know more about
football than the people in the FO . . .

-----

Anybody notice a common theme in this?

Please, stop making like I'm claiming something of my own authority, as many
of you have done. I provided only my own impression. Why this sudden wolf
pack mentality toward me because I gave my impression? Just disagree, and
we'll let it go at that. Wow.

-----

GEM
06-02-2011, 01:40 PM
And every one of your statements here is your opinion.

But Fox shows he's done it before. So I'm not so certain as you that he won't.

-----

Just like every one of yours is your opinion. You choose to believe everything a coach says even though he does have to keep some of his cards hidden.

You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em....you get my drift. :lol:

P-p-p-pokerface....


So exactly...you're not so certain, neither am I, but my opinion is that we are rebuilding and have been for awhile. Your opinion is that we are set and not rebuilding and we have the team in place to get to the playoffs and possibly further.

BroncoStud
06-02-2011, 01:40 PM
"And people in the NFL who know Fox well believe he prefers Orton over Tebow
in whatever shape the 2011 season takes — primarily because the Broncos, who
are coming off a 4-12 season, want to win now."

Doesn't sound as if Fox thinks so . . .

-----

I guess while Fox was busy LOSING 15 games last season he didn't have time to watch Orton lead us to 3 AMAZING wins... :laugh:

The "myth" is that Orton will help the Broncos win NOW. It's a crock.

I have complete faith that Elway knows QBs and will make the right choice. I don't think Fox would know a good QB if one sat on his face.

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 01:40 PM
Why should I show you such a quote? I never said that.

You seem to have quite an imagination. :shocked:
-----

1. the ladies sure think so!

2. why what have you heard?

3. My shrink calls it something different

GEM
06-02-2011, 01:41 PM
Anybody notice a common theme in this?

Please, stop making like I'm claiming something of my own authority, as many
of you have done. I provided only my own impression. Why this sudden wolf
pack mentality toward me because I gave my impression? Just disagree, and
we'll let it go at that. Wow.

-----

No, you have been passing it off that it was based on a direct quote from Fox, nev just asked to see that direct quote.

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 01:41 PM
4. Top - For someone sooooo senstive about the personal stuff -- you do like to dance pretty close to the fire.

NorCalBronco7
06-02-2011, 01:43 PM
Just like every one of yours is your opinion. You choose to believe everything a coach says even though he does have to keep some of his cards hidden.

You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em....you get my drift. :lol:

P-p-p-pokerface....


So exactly...you're not so certain, neither am I, but my opinion is that we are rebuilding and have been for awhile. Your opinion is that we are set and not rebuilding and we have the team in place to get to the playoffs and possibly further.


Lady Gaga has no place in a football forum........:lol:

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 01:44 PM
Except for this is not the only place I have read some about what Fox is thinking.And if I read it, then it was available to others. So you missed it, then?

-----

ahhh hemmm.... again..

topscribe
06-02-2011, 01:51 PM
Just like every one of yours is your opinion. You choose to believe everything a coach says even though he does have to keep some of his cards hidden.

You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em....you get my drift. :lol:

P-p-p-pokerface....


So exactly...you're not so certain, neither am I, but my opinion is that we are rebuilding and have been for awhile. Your opinion is that we are set and not rebuilding and we have the team in place to get to the playoffs and possibly further.

No, every one of mine is NOT my opinion. Alllllllllllllllll the documentation I have
provided is NOT my opinion. It is DOCUMENTATION. I have probably provided
more documentation on this board -- on three different boards, in fact -- than
anybody else.

It is very easy to detect my opinion. I am careful to use "apparently," "seem,"
"it appears" -- terms such as that when I provide my opinion. It is very easy
to spot, really.

At it is not my opinion that we are "set." I have also covered that thoroughly
on this board.

Wow.

-----

RebelRocker
06-02-2011, 01:51 PM
I have no idea where they even start to think this...Since Kyle has not ever posted a winning SEASON in 6 years of NFL football.

6 years and he's not finished with a winning record for the year.

What are you talking about? Orton went 10-5 as a starter in his rookie year.

Get your facts straight:coffee:

topscribe
06-02-2011, 01:52 PM
ahhh hemmm.... again..

You should see a doctor about that throat problem . . . :coffee:

-----

topscribe
06-02-2011, 01:54 PM
What are you talking about? Orton went 10-5 as a starter in his rookie year.

Get your facts straight:coffee:

Not to mention 9-6 in 2008 and 2-1 in 2007 . . .

-----

topscribe
06-02-2011, 01:57 PM
4. Top - For someone sooooo senstive about the personal stuff -- you do like to dance pretty close to the fire.

I assume you are going to get to the point where you have a substantial comment to share?

-----

rcsodak
06-02-2011, 02:00 PM
What are you talking about? Orton went 10-5 as a starter in his rookie year.

Get your facts straight:coffee:

He doesnt do well with facts.

He still uses 6yrs, when orton's only played 5.

But shhhhhh....don't tell him. :lol:

topscribe
06-02-2011, 02:01 PM
No, you have been passing it off that it was based on a direct quote from Fox, nev just asked to see that direct quote.

What are you talking about? You are running in circles here.

I provided information as to when you can tell when I am giving my opinion and
when I am not. Now what is your point? Am I suddenly the damned topic here?

How about we get back on topic now? :focus:

-----

topscribe
06-02-2011, 02:02 PM
He doesnt do well with facts.

He still uses 6yrs, when orton's only played 5.

But shhhhhh....don't tell him. :lol:

Actually, Orton has played only 4 years, plus 3 games . . .

-----

rcsodak
06-02-2011, 02:05 PM
Actually, Orton has played 4, plus 3 games . . .

-----
True. I just didnt want to cornfuse the youngling.

HammeredOut
06-02-2011, 02:06 PM
No, you have been passing it off that it was based on a direct quote from Fox, nev just asked to see that direct quote.

Fox could only talk about Football during the draft. Talking football operations, such as contract, players, or anything in general is forbidden by the League. The lions were penalized a 20 spots in the 5th round, and lost a 7th rounder, when not following league policy, "The lions speculated who they might sign after the draft, and who they were going to cut".

The other day, im not sure why, but 49s coach Jim Harbaugh said he would like to resign ALex Smith when things open up, and the team hasn't been penalized yet. When things open up, im sure they will review the Harbaugh comments.

I think Harbaugh is the only coach to make a comment about a player since the lockout.

NightTerror218
06-02-2011, 02:08 PM
So lets see..... "Both John Fox and John Elway have named Kyle Orton the starter"


right? I saw this yet again.... "Named starter".

that was only if the season started this very moment.but going into training camp there is no starter for 2011 season

WARHORSE
06-02-2011, 02:12 PM
Cant we all just get along???:coffee:















:D

NightTerror218
06-02-2011, 02:14 PM
Toad, Fox IS the boss on the field. He is the Head Coach. Elway has already
vividly expressed that he is not going to impose himself on the field. That, in
fact, is why Fox has not walked away from the job by now, I'm certain . . .

-----

But Fox is not in charge of personnel he has to run it but Xander and Elway...he just runs practices and games, with supervision

Lonestar
06-02-2011, 02:22 PM
Broncos want to win now...that's a joke right?

Coach speak. To keep the natives happy.

Lonestar
06-02-2011, 02:27 PM
Yeah, John Fox, those 3 wins sure came in handy for playoff time last season... :laugh:

I'm guessing you failed to notice the upgrades at ever level on defense and the new ort to give us some running ability

Or was all of those loses all ortons fault.
All those rbs he did not tackle or when he failed to get more than 2 yards a carry on downs 1 & 2

Lonestar
06-02-2011, 02:28 PM
Tebow starting = Broncos lead the league in TV ratings.

Well in Colorado and Florida at least.

Lonestar
06-02-2011, 02:31 PM
I really don't know why some on this board think the Broncos are rebuilding.

Fox doesn't seem to think so . . .

-----coach speak.

If he does not know this team needs rebuilding them be is the wrong guy For the job.

topscribe
06-02-2011, 02:46 PM
coach speak.

If he does not know this team needs rebuilding them be is the wrong guy For the job.

Or maybe, because we are fans whose expertise amounts to watching from our
respective couches with open beers in our hands, we don't know what we're
talking about.

I trust Fox's knowledge first. I'm not going to say that a coach with two decades
of experience is not the right man for the job. I'll let Elway/Xanders say that if
it comes to that.

But, as I said, check out Fox's history. He has always been a win now coach.
And he's been successful at it . . .

-----

West
06-02-2011, 02:51 PM
I'd trade both Orton AND Tebow for Gabbert. JMO I think he's the best pure QB i this years draft.

That's not saying much.

This QB draft class was sub par at best. None of the QB's deserved to be drafted where they were.

TXBRONC
06-02-2011, 02:51 PM
But Fox doesn't seem to know it. You are arguing with Fox.

And he's the Head Coach. He is not the type of person who says one thing and
means another. He is the type of person who wants to win NOW . . . and, you
know what?--He does. Check out his history.

So the one you're laughing at is John Fox.

You know, it's amazing how many people on this board know more about
football than the people in the FO . . .

-----
Top I'm not so sure that Fox doesn't think or doesn't know it. A lot of head coaches are reluctant to call it rebuilding because it can lead to a mind set that losing is ok. Maybe he really doesn't think of it in terms of rebuilding but the very fact that we are switching defensive schemes is in and of it's a rebuild whether Fox calls it that or not. That's no slight on Fox but atp I think it's more about setting a positive winning mind set even if they are rebuilding. Does that make sense? :confused:

topscribe
06-02-2011, 02:57 PM
Top I'm not so sure that Fox doesn't think or doesn't know it. A lot of head coaches are reluctant to call it rebuilding because it can lead to a mind set that losing is ok. Maybe he really doesn't think of it in terms of rebuilding but the very fact that we are switching defensive schemes is in and of it's a rebuild whether Fox calls it that or not. That's no slight on Fox but atp I think it's more about setting a positive winning mind set even if they are rebuilding. Does that make sense? :confused:

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. That is why I used the terms, "apparently,"
"seem," etc., etc.

-----

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 03:14 PM
You should see a doctor about that throat problem . . . :coffee:

-----

just pointing out that in your attempt to not speak for Fox you seem to be trying to speak for Fox. that is all.. EOM.

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 03:20 PM
Except for this is not the only place I have read some about what Fox is thinking.
And if I read it, then it was available to others. So you missed it, then?
-----

one more time... with feeling..

T.K.O.
06-02-2011, 03:25 PM
i sure as hell hope we are rebuilding....cuz the current product is sub-par !!!!!!!:salute:

HammeredOut
06-02-2011, 03:33 PM
Well Tebow to Jacksonville, would revamp TV ratings, and Jacksonville Jersey sales. I think management already got there use out of Tebow in Denver. But I don't think Jacksonville is looking for a gimmick run-option HB/QB to throw bubblescreens in the flat. Besides, Tebow is our only bruising HB on the team. Nobody else can get short down yardage. No Show is a joke in 3rd down.

topscribe
06-02-2011, 03:38 PM
just pointing out that in your attempt to not speak for Fox you seem to be trying to speak for Fox. that is all.. EOM.

You are working very hard to make me say something I did not.

Are you just as assiduous at your job? :coffee:

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robert ethan
06-02-2011, 03:39 PM
As far fetched as the premise is, it does make some sense for both teams. Jacksonville is certainly the most logical spot for Tebow, for a lot of different reasons, mainly the fan base and the fact that he plays the same style as Garrard, but is 10 years younger. They may have been reluctant to take a chance on him at #10 overall a year ago in case he turned out to be a flop. Now there is some reason to be confident in his chances to succeed in the NFL.

From a Bronco perspective, Tebow and a few of the other young players are choices of the previous regime, and history shows those players are vulnerable. IF, Elway flat out does not like Tebow as his long term QB, (and there is certainly reason to believe that is the case) he could move him, and maybe a couple of other McDaniels picks (Ayers, Thomas, Cox?) for a player the club seemed to be VERY high on prior to the draft. With no trading of veteran players allowed, the possibility exists that the Broncos made a secret deal with the Jags when they saw Gabbert falling. I'm sure there had to have been some communication between Jacksonville and Denver prior to the draft about the availability of Tebow, given the signals the club was sending out. A lot of knowledgable observers seemed to think that a quarterback was certainly on the radar for Denver at #2 overall. Fox even mentioned that he thought his old club might take Gabbert #1 overall.

Jacksonville is very weak at the receiver position, and the Broncos have a plethora there. The combined draft chart value of Tebow and Thomas would be close to what they spent on Gabbert, with probably a defensive prospect thrown in to offset Thomas injury status. Eric Decker might be another possibility for trade. Tebow has developed some chemistry with both of those receivers in Denver. I think that Elway was very high on Gabbert, who is as close to a clone of the young John Elway as anyone who has come out of the draft in all the intervening years.

Nomad
06-02-2011, 03:42 PM
You are working very hard to make me say something I did not.

Are you just as assiduous at your job?

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Tone down those big words.....I had to look it up!!:lol:

topscribe
06-02-2011, 03:45 PM
Tone down those big words.....I had to look it up!!:lol:

Didn't President Reagan say something like that?

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down those big words . . . " . . . oh, wait . . .

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T.K.O.
06-02-2011, 03:57 PM
Tone down those big words.....I had to look it up!!:lol:

it's Ok he was just being heuristic :D

TXBRONC
06-02-2011, 04:02 PM
Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. That is why I used the terms, "apparently,"
"seem," etc., etc.

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You could also use supposedly and presumably. :D

TXBRONC
06-02-2011, 04:07 PM
Top, Fox is not the boss, Elway and Xanders are. If thats what they say then we should believe them.

I think Xanders and Fox are on equal footing.

topscribe
06-02-2011, 04:11 PM
You could also use supposedly and presumably. :D

So that's the problem . . . :confused:

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topscribe
06-02-2011, 04:12 PM
it's Ok he was just being heuristic :D
:jaw: Can you say that in public?

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MOtorboat
06-02-2011, 04:35 PM
No Show is a joke in 3rd down.

Honestly, where do people come up with this stuff?

He had five carries on third down the entire season. He converted a 3rd and 1 against Jacksonville that was called back because of holding on Zane Beadles. OK...take that one out.

Four carries in 13 games on third down and he was four for 26 with one touchdown. He converted 50 percent of his third down carries. How is that even enough of a sample size to condemn him as a "joke" on third down.

His two conversions, a 3rd and 1 from the 1 against Seattle for a touchdown and a 24 yard run on 3rd and 5 against Kansas City (second game). He didn't convert a 3rd and 1 against Oakland (first game) and a 3rd and 5 against Kansas City (first game).

He was targeted nine times in the passing game with seven catches for 58 yards and a touchdown.

All purpose, 11 touches on 3rd down for 84 yards and two touchdowns.

Average NFL play: 6 yards. Average Knowshon Moreno play: 7.6 yards.

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 05:05 PM
You are working very hard to make me say something I did not.

Are you just as assiduous at your job? :coffee:

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Like a bull dog on crotch.

nevcraw
06-02-2011, 05:07 PM
Honestly, where do people come up with this stuff?

He had five carries on third down the entire season. He converted a 3rd and 1 against Jacksonville that was called back because of holding on Zane Beadles. OK...take that one out.

Four carries in 13 games on third down and he was four for 26 with one touchdown. He converted 50 percent of his third down carries. How is that even enough of a sample size to condemn him as a "joke" on third down.

His two conversions, a 3rd and 1 from the 1 against Seattle for a touchdown and a 24 yard run on 3rd and 5 against Kansas City (second game). He didn't convert a 3rd and 1 against Oakland (first game) and a 3rd and 5 against Kansas City (first game).

He was targeted nine times in the passing game with seven catches for 58 yards and a touchdown.

All purpose, 11 touches on 3rd down for 84 yards and two touchdowns.

Average NFL play: 6 yards. Average Knowshon Moreno play: 7.6 yards.

He meant Orton not moreno..

West
06-02-2011, 05:07 PM
Honestly, where do people come up with this stuff?

He had five carries on third down the entire season. He converted a 3rd and 1 against Jacksonville that was called back because of holding on Zane Beadles. OK...take that one out.

Four carries in 13 games on third down and he was four for 26 with one touchdown. He converted 50 percent of his third down carries. How is that even enough of a sample size to condemn him as a "joke" on third down.

His two conversions, a 3rd and 1 from the 1 against Seattle for a touchdown and a 24 yard run on 3rd and 5 against Kansas City (second game). He didn't convert a 3rd and 1 against Oakland (first game) and a 3rd and 5 against Kansas City (first game).

He was targeted nine times in the passing game with seven catches for 58 yards and a touchdown.

All purpose, 11 touches on 3rd down for 84 yards and two touchdowns.

Average NFL play: 6 yards. Average Knowshon Moreno play: 7.6 yards.

Hard to even come up with a rebuttal to that.

Nicely done.

rcsodak
06-02-2011, 06:06 PM
it's Ok he was just being heuristic :D
Bill O'Reilly's word of the day.......

rcsodak
06-02-2011, 06:09 PM
Like a bull dog on crotch.
Then I bet you liked the pic of Weiner's tweet.

HammeredOut
06-04-2011, 01:06 PM
Honestly, where do people come up with this stuff?

He had five carries on third down the entire season. He converted a 3rd and 1 against Jacksonville that was called back because of holding on Zane Beadles. OK...take that one out.

Four carries in 13 games on third down and he was four for 26 with one touchdown. He converted 50 percent of his third down carries. How is that even enough of a sample size to condemn him as a "joke" on third down.

His two conversions, a 3rd and 1 from the 1 against Seattle for a touchdown and a 24 yard run on 3rd and 5 against Kansas City (second game). He didn't convert a 3rd and 1 against Oakland (first game) and a 3rd and 5 against Kansas City (first game).

He was targeted nine times in the passing game with seven catches for 58 yards and a touchdown.

All purpose, 11 touches on 3rd down for 84 yards and two touchdowns.

Average NFL play: 6 yards. Average Knowshon Moreno play: 7.6 yards.

You must have missed my post from earlier in one of the threads.

I made the point that even the coaches have no confidence in Know-Show Moreno in third down because of his relative non touches.

My point revolved around the fact, if the coachs have to pull out No-Show Moreno on 3rd down, because we have to bring our bruising FB/QB Tim "Catapult Release" Tebow to convert the short yardage 3rd downs. Then that just proves to fans that no coachs are willing to give him a shot on 3rd down, because of his other stats on running downs. 2.2 yards from his own 20, and 1.8 yards inside the redzone. So if his stats are not showing in the most obvious running situations, then why would the coachs put him out when 3rd down needs to be converted.

If Knowshow was really above average, it has to show over the long course of the season, and not the only 5 plays he may have come up with.

Its like saying, if we could run Moreno 3rd and medium, his 12.5 yards he averaged is about 8 yards more then the league average. So at that pace with 400 carries in a season, Moreno is s 5000 yard back on the ground.

Know-Show is a joke on third down, because after being in the league for 2 seasons, even the coachs don't trust him in those situations. He still doesn't merit a 1st round draft pick we spent on him. Its so bad, that we need a QB/FB to come in and run 3rd and short, and we spent a 1st round pick on him. So by the looks of it, we drafted 2 RB's to run the ball in the 1st round between Tebow/Moreno, and the team still lacks a good running game after all that.

McDaniels set the broncos further behind then most actually think.

BroncoStud
06-04-2011, 03:13 PM
You must have missed my post from earlier in one of the threads.

I made the point that even the coaches have no confidence in Know-Show Moreno in third down because of his relative non touches.

My point revolved around the fact, if the coachs have to pull out No-Show Moreno on 3rd down, because we have to bring our bruising FB/QB Tim "Catapult Release" Tebow to convert the short yardage 3rd downs. Then that just proves to fans that no coachs are willing to give him a shot on 3rd down, because of his other stats on running downs. 2.2 yards from his own 20, and 1.8 yards inside the redzone. So if his stats are not showing in the most obvious running situations, then why would the coachs put him out when 3rd down needs to be converted.

If Knowshow was really above average, it has to show over the long course of the season, and not the only 5 plays he may have come up with.

Its like saying, if we could run Moreno 3rd and medium, his 12.5 yards he averaged is about 8 yards more then the league average. So at that pace with 400 carries in a season, Moreno is s 5000 yard back on the ground.

Know-Show is a joke on third down, because after being in the league for 2 seasons, even the coachs don't trust him in those situations. He still doesn't merit a 1st round draft pick we spent on him. Its so bad, that we need a QB/FB to come in and run 3rd and short, and we spent a 1st round pick on him. So by the looks of it, we drafted 2 RB's to run the ball in the 1st round between Tebow/Moreno, and the team still lacks a good running game after all that.

McDaniels set the broncos further behind then most actually think.

The underlined is the ONLY thing you've ever said I agree with.

The rest is simply not correct and the typical biased misuse of statistical "analysis" you use to push your agenda of hatred towards Tim Tebow and Moreno. I'm starting to think you have a problem with the SEC... There is something deep-rooted here.

broncohead
06-04-2011, 03:53 PM
If we had even a decent running scheme implemented by mcd there wouldn't be any talk of him being a bust imo. I don't think he is elite or a featured back but he is good. It was so obvious at times I was shaking my head knowing it was a run out of the single back formation before the snap of the ball. If I knew im positive that opposing coaches caught on as well

Slick
06-04-2011, 04:21 PM
Amen head, and I find it funny that we use power and mcdaniels offense in the same sentence. There was nothing powerful in thge lip service he paid to the running game.

MOtorboat
06-04-2011, 11:01 PM
You must have missed my post from earlier in one of the threads.

I made the point that even the coaches have no confidence in Know-Show Moreno in third down because of his relative non touches.

My point revolved around the fact, if the coachs have to pull out No-Show Moreno on 3rd down, because we have to bring our bruising FB/QB Tim "Catapult Release" Tebow to convert the short yardage 3rd downs. Then that just proves to fans that no coachs are willing to give him a shot on 3rd down, because of his other stats on running downs. 2.2 yards from his own 20, and 1.8 yards inside the redzone. So if his stats are not showing in the most obvious running situations, then why would the coachs put him out when 3rd down needs to be converted.

1.) No, I understand your point. You irrationally hate Moreno because he's a high profile part of McDaniels' time in Denver, and you have no real reality in your argument. The Broncos weren't in situations where Moreno could be utilized in easily obtainable third down situations. If you want to see his receiving statistics and the down and distance in those third downs, I will happily give it to you.

It's not pretty what the McDaniels offense did on first and second downs this season, and it has very little to do with Moreno.

2.) What's the league average in the red zone?

3.) I don't even know what the 2.2. yards from his own 20 means...you mean inside his own 20? Where defenses know you're going to have more conservative playcalling?


If Knowshow was really above average, it has to show over the long course of the season, and not the only 5 plays he may have come up with.

There weren't a whole lot of 3rd and shorts to allow him to prove his ability. (Sidenote: people want to hate on Orton on third down...check out what the offense did on first and second downs last year, and most of it has to do with blocking)


Its like saying, if we could run Moreno 3rd and medium, his 12.5 yards he averaged is about 8 yards more then the league average. So at that pace with 400 carries in a season, Moreno is s 5000 yard back on the ground.

No, it's not like saying that, and I'm wondering if you even read the post, now. It's saying that in 11 touches on third down throughout the season, he did more than the average league play, especially in the passing game.


If Knowshow was really above average, it has to show over the long course of the season, and not Know-Show is a joke on third down, because after being in the league for 2 seasons, even the coachs don't trust him in those situations. He still doesn't merit a 1st round draft pick we spent on him. Its so bad, that we need a QB/FB to come in and run 3rd and short, and we spent a 1st round pick on him. So by the looks of it, we drafted 2 RB's to run the ball in the 1st round between Tebow/Moreno, and the team still lacks a good running game after all that.

1.) So, wait...either we trust McDaniels or we don't. You can't have it both ways. You can't denounce him as a coach and what he did in Denver and then turn around and say "see, he clearly didn't see any talent on third down in Moreno" and simply trust his judgment. It doesn't work like that.

Not using Moreno on third down was a mistake on McDaniels part, because of the numbers I've shown you. Be consistent in your argument. You're trying to be right on both sides of the same argument.

McDaniels has consistently not used running backs in his four years of being an offensive playcaller. That's not Moreno's fault, that's on McDaniels.

2.) Tebow was not drafted to be a fullback. That statement tells me that you didn't watch the games, and don't know that Tebow didn't carry the ball on third down until he WAS the starting quarterback.

In fact, he only carried the ball on first and second downs until being named the starting quarterback. He didn't even get a fourth down carry.


McDaniels set the broncos further behind then most actually think.

This is the NFL and that statement is ludicrous if you would just look around at other organizations.