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Medford Bronco
09-28-2007, 04:24 PM
I know I might get flamed but I feel that this season will be a rebuilding year for our beloved Broncos. I would be shocked to see us at 10-6.

I think we have a lot of holes on both sides of the ball and a developing QB.

Its not that I dont love this team but I just dont think we have improved at all, especially defensively. We really MISS Al Wilson Immensly, especially against the run. Lets anaylze the rest of the schedule and see what I think we could finish at. Remember this is just a guess really

Sun 9/9 at Buffalo W 15-14
Sun 9/16 Oakland W 23-20
Sun 9/23 Jacksonville L 14-23
Sun 9/30 at Indianapolis 4:15 pm Loss
Sun 10/7 San Diego 4:15 pm Loss tomlinson will run wild IMO
bye
Sun 10/21 Pittsburgh 8:15 pm Loss, PItt will run silly on us
Mon 10/29 Green Bay 8:30 pm maybe w
Sun 11/4 at Detroit 1:00 pm w
Sun 11/11 at Kansas City 1:00 pm we never play well in KC loss
Mon 11/19 Tennessee 8:30 pm maybe w
Sun 11/25 at Chicago 1:00 pm possible w
Sun 12/2 at Oakland 4:05 pm w
Sun 12/9 Kansas City 4:15 pm w
Thu 12/13 at Houston 8:15 pm loss, Houston is much improved
Mon 12/24 at San Diego 8:00 pm Loss
Sun 12/30 Minnesota 4:15 pm w

this has us at 9-7 and this includes a maybe win vs Green Bay

I just hope we improve on the season and the AFC West is very weak this year and we are playing the tough AFC South with Indy, Jax (Loss already), Tenn and an improved Texan team.

This is just an Honest assessment. Please be nice ;)

GEM
09-28-2007, 04:39 PM
I do, I do! I've been saying that since the beginning of the season. You don't start a new QB, RB, TE, lose a key olineman, Wr, start a completely different DLine, lose the heart & soul of your D, move an OLB to MLB, start a lifelong backup MLB at OLB, fire old DLC, DC, ST coaches, hire new ones and expect to hold your position. Honestly, we're lucky to be doing as good as we are with all those changes.


Just think, we could be as bad as New Orleans or the Dolphins.

People are disappointed because they had THEIR expectations too high. Did people really expect we were going to start all these rookies and FA's, coaching changes, and go 16-0? :laugh: That's laughable, at best.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-28-2007, 04:44 PM
There's a fine line between rebuilding and reloading, and Denver is reloading. Not rebuilding. Teams who rebuild finish in the bottom of the league, Denver missed out in the playoffs in the toughest conference in the league. We were 9 and 7 - not 4 and 12.

The great teams reload, the bad ones rebuild. We have a lot of new components, but it's not rebuilding. Rebuilding would be a complete upheaval from the ground up. Most teams who are rebuilding have their head coaches fired. Sure, we've shook some things up - but rebuilding is a term designated to teams who perform catastrophically, and Denver hasn't been "bad, bad" since they went 6 and 10.

Reloading folks, reloading.

Medford Bronco
09-28-2007, 04:51 PM
There's a fine line between rebuilding and reloading, and Denver is reloading. Not rebuilding. Teams who rebuild finish in the bottom of the league, Denver missed out in the playoffs in the toughest conference in the league. We were 9 and 7 - not 4 and 12.

The great teams reload, the bad ones rebuild. We have a lot of new components, but it's not rebuilding. Rebuilding would be a complete upheaval from the ground up. Most teams who are rebuilding have their head coaches fired. Sure, we've shook some things up - but rebuilding is a term designated to teams who perform catastrophically, and Denver hasn't been "bad, bad" since they went 6 and 10.

Reloading folks, reloading.

whatever you call it. My expectations are not being met.

I see if we go 8-8, which if you take out one of my maybe wins as a loss as rebuilding. heck we can go 7-9 if we do not tighten up defensively

we cant always count on timeouts for the Raiders to lose and get extremely lucky vs Buffalo, who is pretty bad to win by one point.

I dont care about yards either. Points lead to wins. not FGS as we get WAY too many this year and have for a lot of years, bascially since Elway retired.

GEM
09-28-2007, 05:02 PM
whatever you call it. My expectations are not being met.

I see if we go 8-8, which if you take out one of my maybe wins as a loss as rebuilding. heck we can go 7-9 if we do not tighten up defensively

we cant always count on timeouts for the Raiders to lose and get extremely lucky vs Buffalo, who is pretty bad to win by one point.

I dont care about yards either. Points lead to wins. not FGS as we get WAY too many this year and have for a lot of years, bascially since Elway retired.

Med, the expectations part is the part I don't agree with. It's not the teams fault that you set your expectations too high. You had to know after the finish last year and all the changes in the offseason that this wasn't going to be a firing on all cylinders kind of team. They have had nowhere near enough time to build a chemistry. Now where we are lucky is that we are winning some close ones, those will help later on down the line when the cylinders start hitting. There has been glimpses of explosiveness on the offensive side of the ball. Something that we have been missing the last few years. Be patient my friend, when things really start falling in place for this team, we really could be a team to be reckoned with. :D

Medford Bronco
09-28-2007, 05:07 PM
Med, the expectations part is the part I don't agree with. It's not the teams fault that you set your expectations too high. You had to know after the finish last year and all the changes in the offseason that this wasn't going to be a firing on all cylinders kind of team. They have had nowhere near enough time to build a chemistry. Now where we are lucky is that we are winning some close ones, those will help later on down the line when the cylinders start hitting. There has been glimpses of explosiveness on the offensive side of the ball. Something that we have been missing the last few years. Be patient my friend, when things really start falling in place for this team, we really could be a team to be reckoned with. :D


must be the impatient Bostonian in me :laugh:
I usually expect at least 10 wins as a Bronco fan we have been spoiled for so long.

I agree to a point but I hope that we can play better and actually look crisp for 4 Qtrs. That has not happened at all this year.

Our division is weak this year so it can be had. Only time will tell

Watchthemiddle
09-28-2007, 05:57 PM
I agree with re-building.

I see Dreams point of reloading, but when you are essentially running an offense around a "rookie" at QB and have a defense learning a new scheme..then you are rebuilding.

I don't know why people are so afraid to admit that at times. There is no shame in rebuilding. Sometimes you just have to do it to make yourself better for YEARS to come down the road.

Prime example of rebuilding vs reloading....New England reloaded...Denver rebuilding. Its night and day the difference. I fear the difference will make it self evident this weekend.

SmithOverTO
09-28-2007, 06:27 PM
I agree with re-building.

I see Dreams point of reloading, but when you are essentially running an offense around a "rookie" at QB and have a defense learning a new scheme..then you are rebuilding.

I don't know why people are so afraid to admit that at times. There is no shame in rebuilding. Sometimes you just have to do it to make yourself better for YEARS to come down the road.

Prime example of rebuilding vs reloading....New England reloaded...Denver rebuilding. Its night and day the difference. I fear the difference will make it self evident this weekend.

Just look at the Rockies (granted, they had some terrible years before hand so its not the greatest of analogies...) but as GEM and Med and you say, we're developing younger players for the future. I cant wait to see Cutler in two years, or Javon Walker, or Selvin Young and Elvis Dumervil.

I see 8-8 and perhaps limping into the playoffs as the sixth seed. I certainly dont expect 12-4 and a home playoff game

dogfish
09-28-2007, 06:34 PM
There's a fine line between rebuilding and reloading, and Denver is reloading. Not rebuilding. Teams who rebuild finish in the bottom of the league, Denver missed out in the playoffs in the toughest conference in the league. We were 9 and 7 - not 4 and 12.

The great teams reload, the bad ones rebuild. We have a lot of new components, but it's not rebuilding. Rebuilding would be a complete upheaval from the ground up. Most teams who are rebuilding have their head coaches fired. Sure, we've shook some things up - but rebuilding is a term designated to teams who perform catastrophically, and Denver hasn't been "bad, bad" since they went 6 and 10.

Reloading folks, reloading.

this is the correct answer, ad i'm going to expound on it a bit. . .


this is a TRANSITION year. . .

reloading = rebuilding on the fly


when a team goes through a true rebuilding year, they not only dump salary, they go with a youth movement across the board. . . buffalo is in rebuilding mode right now, as evidenced by the release or trade of veterans like london fletcher, takeo spikes and willis mcgahee, and the decision to let nate clements walk and rebuild their secondary around young players like whitner, simpson and youboty. . .

if we were in a rebuilding phase like that, we wouldn't have brought in a bunch of high-priced free agents like graham and henry-- we would have saved that money for later down the road. . . you don't rebuild around expensive free agents, you rebuild around draft picks. . . if we were rebuilding, we wouldn't have brought in guys like stokley, simeon rice, sam adams and dre bly-- we'd be starting hixon, moss, thomas and foxworth at those spots, because getting experience for them would be more important than getting a high level of play from those positions. . . you DON'T rebuild around vets who aren't going to be here more than a year or two! you bring those guys in to help ease the transition to the new young core of your team, and give yourself a chance to win in the process. . .

we're doing our best to transition to that young core while still staying competitive in the process. . . i've said all along that we weren't going to be the front-runners that people were expecting us to be this year. . . when i heard all the talk about how we were going to the super bowl because we signed a high-priced tight end and a solid running back, i just kinda laughed-- irrational exuberance at it's best. . . :lol: did people think that other teams weren't making improvements at the same time?

it's as difficult for me to be patient as it is for anyone else, but right now we're about where i expected us to be-- the run defense is the one ugly surprise, but even that wasn't so hard to see coming when we got a look at what our DT rotation was going to be. . . :ahhhhh:

i still think the offense is close to clicking, although i'm starting to be afraid that with the guys we have in the front seven, defense is going to be a problem the entire year-- that's starting to look like it might be a two year project. . . of course i'm still HOPING that bates can get it turned around with the guys we have, or at least make some improvements, but i have to admit that i'm feeling great concern that personnel may be the issue as much as scheme. . . we'll see. . .

at any rate, the next four games are the toughest part of our schedule-- if we get swept we're more or less finished, but if we can find a way to scratch out a win or two we'll be very much alive. . . if the team can start to gel by the end of this stretch it's entirely possible that we can make a run at the playoffs. . . and i've said before, if cutler continues to mature and the offense hits its' stride, we have enough talent to be dangerous even if we're coming in as a wildcard. . . still, GEM's right, expecting us to be a top contender this year probably wasn't very realistic, given the inexperience of our QB and alllll the changes this team underwent in the offseason. . . if we cn make a run this year, great, but what i'm really looking for is progress in key areas that will set us up to actually be that serious contender next year and for years to come. . .

Tned
09-28-2007, 06:39 PM
I definately don't think the Broncos ever intended it to be a rebuilding year, since there is no way they would have made the free agent signings (and possibly the Bly trade/contract).

Beyond what was intended, I don't consider this a rebuilding year, in the traditional sense. This is exactly what was expected by most. A team that could go as far as Cutler could take the team.

The team put up a ton of yards in the first two games, but not points. The team needs to put points up to give the defense a decent shot. The defense is a year 'newer' in it's development (this draft focused on defense, year before on offense) and therefore the O needs to get leads and take pressure off the D.

I have felt since the beginning that it would take nearly half the year until the team (especially offense) gelled and started producing, and therefore the early games would be a challenge, as they have been to date.

However, I don't see it is a 'rebuilding' year as this is a team that has the talent to compete, but is not executing on defense, and is inexperienced at QB.

I think it is possible the team could be 9-7, but it is doubtful it would be worse than that, and that is hardly a 'rebuilding' type year. 3 to 5 wins maybe, but not 9+, which has gotten teams in the playoffs in the past.

gobroncsnv
09-28-2007, 06:43 PM
I see Dreams point of reloading, but when you are essentially running an offense around a "rookie" at QB and have a defense learning a new scheme..then you are rebuilding.


The Patriots, then, won their first SB in a "rebuilding year". (Guess you also have to keep in mind that video cameras had been invented by then, too.)

dogfish
09-28-2007, 06:51 PM
The Patriots, then, won their first SB in a "rebuilding year". (Guess you also have to keep in mind that video cameras had been invented by then, too.)

the steelers too-- their QB got a few more games of experience as a rook than cutler did, but they were in their first year with di ck lebeau back at the helm of the defense after beng gone for the better part of a decade. . . not an EXACT parallel, but close enough to be worth mentioning. . . of course, we don't exactly have guys like richard seymour or casey hampton to build around in the front seven, either. . . . :behindsofa:

Medford Bronco
09-28-2007, 06:56 PM
the steelers too-- their QB got a few more games of experience as a rook than cutler did, but they were in their first year with di ck lebeau back at the helm of the defense after beng gone for the better part of a decade. . . not an EXACT parallel, but close enough to be worth mentioning. . . of course, we don't exactly have guys like richard seymour or casey hampton to build around in the front seven, either. . . . :behindsofa:

I wish we had Pits defense :defense: for Big Bens 2nd year

your above post was good dogfish I just am disappointed as I think we are going to get slaughtered this week.

hey did you check out my post on Grossman. I was in Chicago the day Rex got benched... I have a lot of pull :laugh:


seriously I did buy a Bears hat for my momento on that day as I was near Wrigley field.... not far from my Semiar. Chicago is a very :cool: place and I have a lot of respect for the Bears as a franchise in the NFL

lex
09-28-2007, 06:56 PM
Ive been calling it a transition year with the possibility that we may be good at the end. Cutler has less than 10 starts still. Just think of that.

Medford Bronco
09-28-2007, 06:58 PM
Ive been calling it a transition year with the possibility that we may be good at the end. Cutler has less than 10 starts still. Just think of that.

Cutler is not the problem. Yes some more TDs instead of FgS will help. The swiss cheese run defense is. If we dont shore that up its 7-9 I feel.

lex
09-28-2007, 06:58 PM
I wish we had Pits defense :defense: for Big Bens 2nd year

your above post was good dogfish I just am disappointed as I think we are going to get slaughtered this week.

hey did you check out my post on Grossman. I was in Chicago the day Rex got benched... I have a lot of pull :laugh:


seriously I did buy a Bears hat for my momento on that day as I was near Wrigley field.... not far from my Semiar. Chicago is a very :cool: place and I have a lot of respect for the Bears as a franchise in the NFL

I live about a mile southeast of Wrigley overlooking the lake.

Medford Bronco
09-28-2007, 06:59 PM
I live about a mile southeast of Wrigley overlooking the lake.

very cool place. I enjoyed it...:beer:

It is much smaller in scope than around Fenway though

dogfish
09-28-2007, 07:00 PM
I wish we had Pits defense for Big Bens 2nd year

your above post was good dogfish I just am disappointed as I think we are going to get slaughtered this week.

hey did you check out my post on Grossman. I was in Chicago the day Rex got benched... I have a lot of pull :laugh:


seriously I did buy a Bears hat for my momento on that day as I was near Wrigley field.... not far from my Semiar. Chicago is a very :cool: place and I have a lot of respect for the Bears as a franchise in the NFL


yea, our D looks more like the pitt panthers than the steelers. . . . :frusty:



i got a laugh thinking of your reaction when i heard that grossman was benched. . . .


:laugh:

lex
09-28-2007, 07:01 PM
very cool place. I enjoyed it...:beer:

It is much smaller in scope than around Fenway though

Ive been to Fenway several times and I disagree.

Medford Bronco
09-28-2007, 07:01 PM
yea, our D looks more like the pitt panthers than the steelers. . . . :frusty:



i got a laugh thinking of your reaction when i heard that grossman was benched. . . .


:laugh:

I got to read the Chicago papers locally. Priceless

Grossman got hammered and rightfully so. Jay Mariotti buried him in the Tribune. I wanted to post it but had no computer access for 2 days.

Medford Bronco
09-28-2007, 07:02 PM
Ive been to Fenway several times and I disagree.

Not the acutal field. I am talking about the bars, night clubs etc.

around Wrigley was pretty dead. Around Fenway its lively almost all the time being around Boston University and not far from BC

lex
09-28-2007, 07:03 PM
I got to read the Chicago papers locally. Priceless

Grossman got hammered and rightfully so. Jay Mariotti buried him in the Tribune. I wanted to post it but had no computer access for 2 days.

You should have picked up a Heckler.

lex
09-28-2007, 07:03 PM
Not the acutal field. I am talking about the bars, night clubs etc.

around Wrigley was pretty dead. Around Fenway its lively almost all the time being around Boston University and not far from BC


I knew what you were talking about.

Uncle Buck
09-28-2007, 07:15 PM
I know I might get flamed but I feel that this season will be a rebuilding year for our beloved Broncos. I would be shocked to see us at 10-6.

I think we have a lot of holes on both sides of the ball and a developing QB.

Its not that I dont love this team but I just dont think we have improved at all, especially defensively. We really MISS Al Wilson Immensly, especially against the run. Lets anaylze the rest of the schedule and see what I think we could finish at. Remember this is just a guess really

Sun 9/9 at Buffalo W 15-14
Sun 9/16 Oakland W 23-20
Sun 9/23 Jacksonville L 14-23
Sun 9/30 at Indianapolis 4:15 pm Loss
Sun 10/7 San Diego 4:15 pm Loss tomlinson will run wild IMO
bye
Sun 10/21 Pittsburgh 8:15 pm Loss, PItt will run silly on us
Mon 10/29 Green Bay 8:30 pm maybe w
Sun 11/4 at Detroit 1:00 pm w
Sun 11/11 at Kansas City 1:00 pm we never play well in KC loss
Mon 11/19 Tennessee 8:30 pm maybe w
Sun 11/25 at Chicago 1:00 pm possible w
Sun 12/2 at Oakland 4:05 pm w
Sun 12/9 Kansas City 4:15 pm w
Thu 12/13 at Houston 8:15 pm loss, Houston is much improved
Mon 12/24 at San Diego 8:00 pm Loss
Sun 12/30 Minnesota 4:15 pm w

this has us at 9-7 and this includes a maybe win vs Green Bay

I just hope we improve on the season and the AFC West is very weak this year and we are playing the tough AFC South with Indy, Jax (Loss already), Tenn and an improved Texan team.

This is just an Honest assessment. Please be nice ;)

Nobody with any sense of decency would "flame" you, Med! (And BTW thank you again for my "Uncle Buck" handle :beer:)

Seriously, you could be right. Based upon the first three games, my current expectations are little more than a "rebuild" season. But, guess it's "wait and see" for a couple more games before I escalate my hopes back up to a solid chance for the playoffs.

While I did initially predict a W over Indy (yes, even at the RCA dome), right now I'm just hoping for a decent showing. If we can be within a FG or a TD, I'd consider this to be a notable improvement. A win against SD the following week--at home--would solidify my hopes for a playoff run. In fact, regardless of the outcome of the Indy outing, I do consider the SD game a must-win. Lose 'em both, and we are right on track for a 9-7 season--if not an 8-8 draw.

Some key points:

1. Cutler, while just a half-season starter (5 games in 06, 3, this season), is already one of the better QB's in the league. Our loss (and near losses) to date are less on his shoulders than that of the offensive line in general, and the defensive line in particular.

2. The Defense in general is 180 degrees out of phase with last year's D at the same time of season. Could it be that this year's opponents have already figured out a way around the Champ-Bly factor? If you can run the damn ball on us, why bother to make it into a passing game? Where are the change-up's? What happened to the famous blitz of 2005? (Well, that's easy: Steelers studied it all season, then robbed us at the championship game at home. Since then, we've been running scared.)

3. Play the Colts to win. Bring back the blitz. Force Peyton to pass in the clutch (if not sack him). I know, I know, it's dangerous to blitz Manning. He's just too damn smart. But what do we have to lose?

The pundits have already called this game anyway.

uncle buck

NameUsedBefore
09-28-2007, 07:58 PM
No, we're not "rebuilding". Dream's "reloading" is a bit more accurate. Rebuilding teams don't have a solid set of WRs, o-line, and backfield. They certainly don't carry one of the best secondaries in the NFL, a solid linebacking crew, and an adequate defensive line. And most have a QB that isn't quite ready to make 4th quarter comebacks and clutch drives on his arm alone :)

Tom33
09-28-2007, 08:14 PM
I don't think you can call this a rebuilding year but more of a waiting for the team to show its true colors.

Medford Bronco
09-28-2007, 08:45 PM
Nobody with any sense of decency would "flame" you, Med! (And BTW thank you again for my "Uncle Buck" handle :beer:)

Seriously, you could be right. Based upon the first three games, my current expectations are little more than a "rebuild" season. But, guess it's "wait and see" for a couple more games before I escalate my hopes back up to a solid chance for the playoffs.

While I did initially predict a W over Indy (yes, even at the RCA dome), right now I'm just hoping for a decent showing. If we can be within a FG or a TD, I'd consider this to be a notable improvement. A win against SD the following week--at home--would solidify my hopes for a playoff run. In fact, regardless of the outcome of the Indy outing, I do consider the SD game a must-win. Lose 'em both, and we are right on track for a 9-7 season--if not an 8-8 draw.

Some key points:

1. Cutler, while just a half-season starter (5 games in 06, 3, this season), is already one of the better QB's in the league. Our loss (and near losses) to date are less on his shoulders than that of the offensive line in general, and the defensive line in particular.

2. The Defense in general is 180 degrees out of phase with last year's D at the same time of season. Could it be that this year's opponents have already figured out a way around the Champ-Bly factor? If you can run the damn ball on us, why bother to make it into a passing game? Where are the change-up's? What happened to the famous blitz of 2005? (Well, that's easy: Steelers studied it all season, then robbed us at the championship game at home. Since then, we've been running scared.)

3. Play the Colts to win. Bring back the blitz. Force Peyton to pass in the clutch (if not sack him). I know, I know, it's dangerous to blitz Manning. He's just too damn smart. But what do we have to lose?

The pundits have already called this game anyway.

uncle buck


Great post Uncle Buck :salute:

My question is why people are "offended" at "rebuilding" its not like I say we Suck or anything.

I feel like the defense needs to be redone in lots of spots as age and injury over the years has caught up with us, minus the CB postion.

we were 13-3 2 years ago to 9-7 last year and a possbile 8-8 season.

maybe not for other teams but to me this is rebuilding for Denver. Just my take

you can rebuild without being sucky. I mean rebuilding the roster from a veteran team to a younger team.

BigBroncLove
09-28-2007, 09:18 PM
this is the correct answer, ad i'm going to expound on it a bit. . .


this is a TRANSITION year. . .

reloading = rebuilding on the fly

it's as difficult for me to be patient as it is for anyone else, but right now we're about where i expected us to be-- the run defense is the one ugly surprise, but even that wasn't so hard to see coming when we got a look at what our DT rotation was going to be. . . :ahhhhh:

i still think the offense is close to clicking, although i'm starting to be afraid that with the guys we have in the front seven, defense is going to be a problem the entire year-- that's starting to look like it might be a two year project. . . of course i'm still HOPING that bates can get it turned around with the guys we have, or at least make some improvements, but i have to admit that i'm feeling great concern that personnel may be the issue as much as scheme. . . we'll see. . .

at any rate, the next four games are the toughest part of our schedule-- if we get swept we're more or less finished, but if we can find a way to scratch out a win or two we'll be very much alive. . . if the team can start to gel by the end of this stretch it's entirely possible that we can make a run at the playoffs. . . and i've said before, if cutler continues to mature and the offense hits its' stride, we have enough talent to be dangerous even if we're coming in as a wildcard. . . still, GEM's right, expecting us to be a top contender this year probably wasn't very realistic, given the inexperience of our QB and alllll the changes this team underwent in the offseason. . . if we cn make a run this year, great, but what i'm really looking for is progress in key areas that will set us up to actually be that serious contender next year and for years to come. . .

Yeah.... what dogfish said :D .

All those areas bolded I think were said better then I could put them. I think every fan starts with the promise of a new season, and thinks, "maybe this could be the year." I know as a fan I always have those high lofty hopes ground into my psyche despite any obvious trepidation I might have going into the regualr season. It's hard as a fan not to think of all the great possibilities every new season holds. However I would also agree that we all had worries coming into this season. So many changes, so many new personel, the weight of the games on the shoulders of a young QB, and a lot of raw talent still in development. I think while that hope was there, that most, or at least many, knew this would be a season taht could go either way.

The way things are looking now, I am really liking how our offense is putting things together. The Oline has some worries for me, and I wonder if new personel will be required there, but every other position on Offense has some real talent there ethat has exploded at times. And we all know the ugly state of our front seven. Good DE's, and some talent at LB, but the DT position is just plain worrisome. I also think instead of having the personel to go with a true two gap system like Bates preferred in Miami, here they have less capable personel and so have switched to a hybrid one gap/two gap system in which DT's seem to have less responsibility for gap control, and LB's have more responsibility with gap assignments..... which I believe creates a problem because if that LB in his gap assignment does not make the tackle it is easy for the RB to make it to the second level.

I hope they can gets things in gear, and if either the Offensive really hits stride, or the run D starts to shore up those massive holes, I think the Broncos have a shot at some sort of playoff run. Regardless of how they do though, I'll be there week in week out cheering, or if things get bad a bit of yelling and fist shaking.

Watchthemiddle
09-28-2007, 09:29 PM
Great post Uncle Buck :salute:

My question is why people are "offended" at "rebuilding" its not like I say we Suck or anything.

I feel like the defense needs to be redone in lots of spots as age and injury over the years has caught up with us, minus the CB postion.

we were 13-3 2 years ago to 9-7 last year and a possbile 8-8 season.

maybe not for other teams but to me this is rebuilding for Denver. Just my take

you can rebuild without being sucky. I mean rebuilding the roster from a veteran team to a younger team.

I don't understand it either. We rebuild the d-line every year :laugh:. We are in need coming up to rebuild the offensive line.

We have rebuilt the offensive weapons. So if we have RELOADED, then thats scary considering we only went 9-7 last year. So what did we reload exactly? Teams that go 13-3 or 12-4 reload after retirements, trades, and free agency. They reload to repeat the accomplishments from the year before. We reloaded to go 9-7 again?? :confused:

We are rebuilding in hopes to get to be 12-4, 13-3 again.

Uncle Buck
09-28-2007, 09:35 PM
Great post Uncle Buck :salute:

My question is why people are "offended" at "rebuilding" its not like I say we Suck or anything.

I feel like the defense needs to be redone in lots of spots as age and injury over the years has caught up with us, minus the CB postion.

we were 13-3 2 years ago to 9-7 last year and a possbile 8-8 season.

maybe not for other teams but to me this is rebuilding for Denver. Just my take

you can rebuild without being sucky. I mean rebuilding the roster from a veteran team to a younger team.

Well said, my Boss Town bud. I won’t be offended if it turns into a “rebuild” season.

1. You can’t just throw away talent like TP and lose greats like Big Al in the same era as bringing in the new, without some fallout.

2. The remaining veterans are getting older.

On the bright side, Jason Cutler will only get better—provided he doesn’t get carried away with playing the RB position, and never drives a motorcycle.

It’s getting hard to tell the difference between Brandon Marshall and Javon Walker (great news!)! My point being here, we need to see some young talent (to go along with the young Cutler) who will eventually replace players in their prime—and this is to include Walker, the tight end we acquired from the Pats (sorry, forgot his name), Champ, Bly, etc….

Yes, this is a team on the cusp. On one side, you have the new; on the other, we still have some mainstays. As for the mainstays, I think we have enough left to see the rebuild become a success, if not this season, but for 2008.

Rod Smith is on the way out (if not already out); Lynch possibly has another season in him. Champ and Bly will be around for a few more years. Nalen is good for at least 3 or 4. Our Number One clutch team kicker is good for many more years. He might out-survive coach Shanny—and you NEVER replace a coach with a winning record! (shame on YOU, San Diego!)

Nope, I’m not giving up on the season. You watch college football, you are lookin’ for future stars of the NFL. If this is a “rebuild” season, I’m looking to the future. [And the future of Bates is nebulous at this point]

If this is a “rebuild” season, I’m even more psyched for ’08!

Great—and realistic—comments on “who we are,” Med!

broncosinindy
09-28-2007, 09:56 PM
This team will jell. we have to get better. i know its not that great now.. just gotta have faith.

TXBRONC
09-28-2007, 10:00 PM
Med if you think its rebuilding year that's fine. I not ready to say that just yet but I don't deny the fact you could be right.

Chica_Ang
09-28-2007, 10:05 PM
I know I might get flamed but I feel that this season will be a rebuilding year for our beloved Broncos. I would be shocked to see us at 10-6.

The fire throwing sure won't come from me tonight. i'm :cool:

I so agree with all assessments ...whether we call it rebuild, reload, transition, or on the cusp, we are going through major changes. I'm with uncle here. I'm sitting back with my beer and chicken wings, watching how each week unfolds and keeping my eyes on the future. Easy for me since I've watched this team since the 70's.

Patience my dears. Enjoy the ride...it's Mile Hi Magic! :salute:

Uncle Buck
09-28-2007, 10:16 PM
The fire throwing sure won't come from me tonight. i'm :cool:

I so agree with all assessments ...whether we call it rebuild, reload, transition, or on the cusp, we are going through major changes. I'm with uncle here. I'm sitting back with my beer and chicken wings, watching how each week unfolds and keeping my eyes on the future. Easy for me since I've watched this team since the 70's.

Patience my dears. Enjoy the ride...it's Mile Hi Magic! :salute:

Gawd, Angie, I think I love you! :cool:

Cugel
09-28-2007, 10:20 PM
I get the feeling that this team is headed for about an 8-8 season which will definitely be a disappointment, but not totally unexpected if Cutler struggled.

I was worried when I saw that the starting DTs were going to be Amon Gordon and Sam Adams. Adams is essentially on his last legs as a DT and will probably retire after this year or at most play 1 more year. He can only go around 15 snaps a game, which means that Marcus Thomas and Antwon Burton play a LOT.

Well, Thomas is a rookie, and a rookie moreover who missed virtually his entire senior season at Florida and was quite rusty coming in. He's clearly not ready to be playing such a big role in the DT rotation.

Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton are total scrubs who shouldn't even be IN the NFL and won't be after Denver cuts them -- probably after this season. At best, Gordon is a career backup and Burton isn't even that.

I think both have a future in the Canadian Football league! :coffee:

That's a HUGE weakness in a system that plays the DEs spread out wide to provide a better angle in rushing the passer, and relies on the DTs to take on blockers and remain strong at the point of attack, so that the DEs and LBs can flow to the ball and make tackles. It's not a glamorous system for DTs to play in and they have to be willing to muscle in there and clog up the running lanes.

Well, they haven't been doing that at all. I was shocked to see Adams moving laterally along the line on that last rushing TD in the Jagwads game. They sealed him off and cut back straight through the hold Adams vacated for a TD.

Lynch was quoted as saying that they emphasize the run every week as the top priority on their defensive board, but they haven't done it yet this season. Bates is concerned in that he's never had this much trouble rounding a defense into shape. The players aren't executing their assignments to stop the run. They are in the wrong place at the wrong time and are getting consistently beaten off the line of scrimmage.
I have no idea if they can turn this around this year.

I hope so, but if not, 7-9 is reasonable to expect. :coffee:

lex
09-28-2007, 11:41 PM
Cutler is not the problem. Yes some more TDs instead of FgS will help. The swiss cheese run defense is. If we dont shore that up its 7-9 I feel.

I wasnt really complaining about Cutler as much as I was saying there might be ups and downs and we also might see massive improvement later in the year.

Medford Bronco
09-29-2007, 01:02 AM
I get the feeling that this team is headed for about an 8-8 season which will definitely be a disappointment, but not totally unexpected if Cutler struggled.

I was worried when I saw that the starting DTs were going to be Amon Gordon and Sam Adams. Adams is essentially on his last legs as a DT and will probably retire after this year or at most play 1 more year. He can only go around 15 snaps a game, which means that Marcus Thomas and Antwon Burton play a LOT.

Well, Thomas is a rookie, and a rookie moreover who missed virtually his entire senior season at Florida and was quite rusty coming in. He's clearly not ready to be playing such a big role in the DT rotation.

Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton are total scrubs who shouldn't even be IN the NFL and won't be after Denver cuts them -- probably after this season. At best, Gordon is a career backup and Burton isn't even that.

I think both have a future in the Canadian Football league! :coffee:

That's a HUGE weakness in a system that plays the DEs spread out wide to provide a better angle in rushing the passer, and relies on the DTs to take on blockers and remain strong at the point of attack, so that the DEs and LBs can flow to the ball and make tackles. It's not a glamorous system for DTs to play in and they have to be willing to muscle in there and clog up the running lanes.

Well, they haven't been doing that at all. I was shocked to see Adams moving laterally along the line on that last rushing TD in the Jagwads game. They sealed him off and cut back straight through the hold Adams vacated for a TD.

Lynch was quoted as saying that they emphasize the run every week as the top priority on their defensive board, but they haven't done it yet this season. Bates is concerned in that he's never had this much trouble rounding a defense into shape. The players aren't executing their assignments to stop the run. They are in the wrong place at the wrong time and are getting consistently beaten off the line of scrimmage.
I have no idea if they can turn this around this year.

I hope so, but if not, 7-9 is reasonable to expect. :coffee:

Great assessment Cugel. I agree wholeheartedly

BroncoManiac_69
09-29-2007, 01:19 AM
We ARE rebuilding.

We are ALWAYS rebuilding. ALL teams are.

Even after a team wins a Super Bowl, you are looking to replace the people that leave. You are replacing a member that retired. You are replacing a member that got traded etc. etc. etc.

We are in MAJOR replacements and if anybody can't see that, then take off the orange colored glasses.

Jay is the obvious.

Bates is next along with that entire defensive side learning his ways.

There are so many new faces, especially on offense, that there has to be growing pains, learning experiences and just plain... learn your lesson games for this entire staff.

Over on BM, we have so many noobs that "only like Jay" to quote only one screen name.

Jay is not the Jesus Christ savior for all humanity.

We have a long way to go. Only realists would admit this.

I like the direction we are headed, and in a few years, we will be a team that will be looked at seriously. In the mean time. YES... I believe we are rebuilding this team.

I hate to use the "Elway" word but he had the same issues as he learned how to be a winner just looking at the QB position.

In-com-plete
09-29-2007, 05:48 AM
If you're either rebuilding or reloading, we're rebuilding.

Gold, Champ, Fergueson, and Lynch are the only guys starting at the same position as last season.

Nalen, Lepsis, and Walker are the only starters on offense still here from a year ago today.

That's 15 out of 22 positions with new starters. Sound like reloading to anyone?

silkamilkamonico
09-29-2007, 07:23 AM
People just have different ideas of what rebuilding is.

IMO, if we're rebuilding then theres a problem at more then one of the offensive skill positions, which means to me that either Cutler, Henry, Walker, Marshall, and possibly Graham are not the answer, and Denver should move on without them next year. Obviously Cutler isn't going anywhere, so that means the rest arguably are, and I just don;t agree with that.

Our defense on the other hand, is another story.

If we are rebuilding, that sucks. Rebuilding is a long term project that happens over the course of 2-4 seasons. If we are rebuilding, we have wasted a prime opportunity with Champ Bailey, and John Lynch still playing at a high level. If Denver is rebuilding, I would love them to move Bailey for multiple draft picks and just start young.


IMO rebuilding is something teams do to set themselves up for the future, and that means a new C, and arguably entire secondary sans Foxworth.

omac
09-29-2007, 11:56 AM
People just have different ideas of what rebuilding is.

IMO, if we're rebuilding then theres a problem at more then one of the offensive skill positions, which means to me that either Cutler, Henry, Walker, Marshall, and possibly Graham are not the answer, and Denver should move on without them next year. Obviously Cutler isn't going anywhere, so that means the rest arguably are, and I just don;t agree with that.

Our defense on the other hand, is another story.

If we are rebuilding, that sucks. Rebuilding is a long term project that happens over the course of 2-4 seasons. If we are rebuilding, we have wasted a prime opportunity with Champ Bailey, and John Lynch still playing at a high level. If Denver is rebuilding, I would love them to move Bailey for multiple draft picks and just start young.


IMO rebuilding is something teams do to set themselves up for the future, and that means a new C, and arguably entire secondary sans Foxworth.

I agree with your definition of rebuilding.

Rebuilding is like starting from scratch. It's tearing down the old to build anew. The Falcons are rebuilding; the Browns, Raiders, and 49ers have been rebuilding; the Chiefs have been on the way down, but I don't believe they've really started rebuilding yet ... maybe they don't need to rebuild .... they just need better coaches.

The Broncos have been building on a solid foundation since Shanny's been head coach; I don't see it as much of rebuilding as it is maintenance, upgrades and remodeling.

TXBRONC
09-29-2007, 12:10 PM
Well when I worked construction with father years ago and we would get new tools or upgraded equipment we called it re-tooling. I don't think it matters what you call it we had major turnover in personnel players and coaches and that kind of thing has impact.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-29-2007, 12:17 PM
I think it just comes down to semantics. Rebuilding has been and always will be associated with teams who do very poorly. We haven't done poorly in years.

Retired_Member_001
09-29-2007, 12:45 PM
I think it just comes down to semantics. Rebuilding has been and always will be associated with teams who do very poorly. We haven't done poorly in years.

Dream has got it spot on, we still have alot of talent.

It isn't like we have a bunch of rookies starting a key positions, we still have talent. I don't think we'll do poorly and I do think that a 10-6 record is possible, aslong as the defense gels quickly.

I think we will be slaughtered by the Colts, I think we will beat the Chargers though, I still don't think LT will be up to full pace by then. 3-2 is a good record going into the BYE. Not as good as a 4-1 or 5-0 record, obviously, but good enough for a playoff hopeful team.

I just wish that our offensive line were rebuilding.

Tned
09-29-2007, 08:28 PM
If you define "rebuilding" as a season where we really have a slim shot at the Superbowl, so you're hoping we could make some progress and get a better shot in a season or two.... then yes, that's where we're at.

We were hoping to make a run this year, it's always been Shanahan's goal. Season is still young, but we've got some major growing pains with this new defensive scheme.

We were supposed to be relying on the defense and running game this year to carry us all the way. After last week, who knows? :tsk:

As you say in your second paragraph, the intention was obviously to make a run at the playoffs, which is not done in a 'rebuilding' year.

TXBRONC
09-29-2007, 08:43 PM
As was mentioning earlier, we can all it whatever we like, however doesn't consider this a rebuilding year.

Tned
09-29-2007, 09:11 PM
Med's original question I believe is asking whether or not this team will win the Superbowl now. I don't think so. We're hoping for progress and growth and maybe we can be dominant in a season or two....

I never saw anything about the SB in his question, but instead whether or not we thought this was a rebuilding year.

Lonestar
09-29-2007, 09:34 PM
I read a few comments on this and decided I just needed to reply.

t ahas happened in DEN that no one wants to admit since John left we have been on talent decline.

Lost:
John
Sharpe
TD
most of a great OLINE
lost the entire defense except Wilson
Eddie Mac
This year Rod

We went into this year with a rookie QB, anyone that is realistic knows that is true.

Had to go out and get a real:
Rb this year.
TE
DE X2
DT X2
Defensive coordinator


Everyone was expecting this all to fit together without missing a beat.

When I predicted 7-9 folks were on me like stink on....

When I revised that to as low as 3-13 it got worse.

Saying I'm a glass 1/4 full kind a guy.

I just know I have been watching this team for almost 1/2 a century, I can't remember ever having so much change in one year. as we had this year.

It time for folks to be honest and think about all the changes that have been made or forced upon this team.

Will this team improve or implode is the real Question?

Unless there are more devastating hits like Hamilton and now Walker missing this week I think they will improve and probably finish about 7-9. But watch out next year when all of the rookies Jay included have a year under their belt. This team could be as good they get.

What we lack as we speak is a real good set of DT's the only thing I see as holding them back from being a really great team this year.

If mikey will uncork another high draft choice on a DT this coming year this team may be the next dynasty like NE is now.

Tned
09-29-2007, 09:43 PM
We went into this year with a rookie QB, anyone that is realistic knows that is true.

I don't know why some people insist on calling Cutler a rookie. That is simply ridiculous. Was Romo a rookie last year, in his fourth year, becaus he wasn't a starter prior to that? Of course not. Does Cutler qualify for the offensive rookie of the year this year? Of course not.

Cutler is a second year QB, and beyond that, he has more experience starting his second year than most QBs these days do. Most QBs that are drafted to be a franchise QB sit out their rookie years and don't get five games of starting experience in their first year. Cutler is not only not a rookie QB, but he has, or should have, a leg up on most second year QBs this year, as he entered it with five starts under his belt.


SAying I'm a glass 1/4 full kind a guy.

I prefer the term 3/4 empty myself.

Watchthemiddle
09-29-2007, 09:45 PM
Well like I said in an earlier post...if we are reloading then we are reloading a 9-7 team from last year. That doesn't sound promising.

If we are rebuilding then we are rebuilding a 9-7 team from last year that failed to make the playoffs in the hopes to make the playoffs again.

People want to say that only the poor teams rebuild..well we didn't exactly blow anyone socks off last year ..and correct me if I am wrong we missed the playoffs. So far this year we are not exactly blowing anyone socks off either. 2 squeekers and another lose at home. Sounds like we are rebuilding and still trying to find their identity.

Teams that are reloading have an identity...we do not.

Again, its not a bad thing to rebuild. In the end it makes you that much more stronger down the road.

Tned
09-29-2007, 09:52 PM
Well like I said in an earlier post...if we are reloading then we are reloading a 9-7 team from last year. That doesn't sound promising.

If we are rebuilding then we are rebuilding a 9-7 team from last year that failed to make the playoffs in the hopes to make the playoffs again.

People want to say that only the poor teams rebuild..well we didn't exactly blow anyone socks off last year ..and correct me if I am wrong we missed the playoffs. So far this year we are not exactly blowing anyone socks off either. 2 squeekers and another lose at home. Sounds like we are rebuilding and still trying to find their identity.

Teams that are reloading have an identity...we do not.

Again, its not a bad thing to rebuild. In the end it makes you that much more stronger down the road.

So, just to be clear, you believe that Shanny and company went out and got Graham, Henry, Sam Adams and Bly not to win this year, but in order to 'sacrifice' this year in an attempt to rebuild a team to win in future years?

Is that what you are saying?

The reason I ask, is because rebuilding years are generally accepted as years when the team has no illusions about winning and simply realizes that it is a year or two (or more) away from winning and therefore makes moves intended to put them back into the winning ways in the future. In these rebuilding years, you often see rookies and young players getting experience, even if they aren't the best player to give the team a chance to win as many games 'this year' as they could by playing the veterans.

Watchthemiddle
09-29-2007, 10:06 PM
So, just to be clear, you believe that Shanny and company went out and got Graham, Henry, Sam Adams and Bly not to win this year, but in order to 'sacrifice' this year in an attempt to rebuild a team to win in future years?

Is that what you are saying?

The reason I ask, is because rebuilding years are generally accepted as years when the team has no illusions about winning and simply realizes that it is a year or two (or more) away from winning and therefore makes moves intended to put them back into the winning ways in the future. In these rebuilding years, you often see rookies and young players getting experience, even if they aren't the best player to give the team a chance to win as many games 'this year' as they could by playing the veterans.


I look at this year as a continuation to the end of last season. Clearly we went into a rebuilding mode at the end by putting in Cutler. A lot of us argued over that when it happened saying that we were throwing in the towel for the season by putting in a Rookie when we still had a chance at the playoffs. Others said its best for the future of the team. It is going to be best for our future.

So I still see us building for the future. We have built a pretty sound offensive weapon that needs time now to jell and work out all the kinks. We have YET to build a sound defense and if we have then they are definately working out all the kinks with the new system.

Teams reloading reload and don't miss a beat. They keep rolling year after year after year. Just fill in the gaps and keep moving forward. We have taken a step back for the time being. We are not rolling and rolling and rolling as if we just filled in the blanks and kept rolling.

TXBRONC
09-29-2007, 10:49 PM
I look at this year as a continuation to the end of last season. Clearly we went into a rebuilding mode at the end by putting in Cutler. A lot of us argued over that when it happened saying that we were throwing in the towel for the season by putting in a Rookie when we still had a chance at the playoffs. Others said its best for the future of the team. It is going to be best for our future.

So I still see us building for the future. We have built a pretty sound offensive weapon that needs time now to jell and work out all the kinks. We have YET to build a sound defense and if we have then they are definately working out all the kinks with the new system.

Teams reloading reload and don't miss a beat. They keep rolling year after year after year. Just fill in the gaps and keep moving forward. We have taken a step back for the time being. We are not rolling and rolling and rolling as if we just filled in the blanks and kept rolling.

That's fine that you view it that way WTM however, what Tned is saying I believe is on the money. Shanahan doesn't see it as rebuilding, the additions of Henry, Adams, Graham, Stokely and Rice are not the moves of a coach who thinks he rebuilding.

TXBRONC
09-29-2007, 10:56 PM
I read a few comments on this and deceided I just neeeded to reply.

t ahas happened in DEN that no one wants to admit since John left we have been on talent decline.

Lost:
John
Sharpe
TD
most of a great OLINE
lost the entire defense except Wilson
Eddie Mac
This year Rod

We went into this year with a rookie QB, anyone that is realistic knows that is true.

Had to go out and get a real:
Rb this year.
TE
DE X2
DT X2
Defensive cooridnator


Everyone was expecting this all to fit together without missing a beat.

When I predicted 7-9 folks were on me like stink on....

When I revised that to as low as 3-13 it got worse.

SAying I'm a glass 1/4 full kind a guy.

I just know I have been watching this team for almost 1/2 a century, I can't remember ever having so much change in one year. as we had this year.

It time for folks to be honest and think about all the changes that have been made or forced upon this team.

Will this team improve or implode is the real Question?

Unless there are more devistating hits like Hamilton and now Walker missing this week I think they will improve and probably finish about 7-9. But wqatch out next year when all of the rookies Jay included have a year under their belt. This team could be as good they get.WHat we lack as we speak is a real good set of DT's the only thing I see as holding them back from being a really great team this year.

If mikey will uncork another high draft choice on a DT this coming year this team may be teh next dynasty like NE is now.


Jay isn't rookie JR. And no saying that well he started 5 games last year hence a rookie doesn't fly. He is in his second year with the team. I believe Tned also pointed out that Tony Romo of the Dallas Cowboys had never played a down during a regular season game until last year and guy in his 5th season as a pro.

Tned
09-29-2007, 10:56 PM
That's fine that you view it that way WTM however, what Tned is saying I believe is on the money. Shanahan doesn't see it as rebuilding, the additions of Henry, Adams, Graham, Stokely and Rice are not the moves of a coach who thinks he rebuilding.

That's the way I look at it. Based on the reloading theory, there are only a handful of teams in the league that aren't rebuilding. The number of teams that make it into the playoffs two or three years in a row is very low, does that mean all the rest are rebuilding every time they don't make it two years in a row??? I don't think so. What Sf has just come out of is a rebuilding period. What Cincy recently came out of was a rebuilding period. A team that made the playoffs three or four years in a row, then missed the playoffs by a game, and starts 2-1 after spending $60+ million in free agent (and player trades and then contract extensions) money is not a team that went into the season with a plan to rebuild. Does that mean the Broncos will make the playoffs or win the SB? No, but then again most teams do neither each year.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-29-2007, 10:58 PM
We're reloading and that's all there is to it. :first:

TXBRONC
09-29-2007, 11:00 PM
That's the way I look at it. Based on the reloading theory, there are only a handful of teams in the league that aren't rebuilding. The number of teams that make it into the playoffs two or three years in a row is very low, does that mean all the rest are rebuilding every time they don't make it two years in a row??? I don't think so. What Sf has just come out of is a rebuilding period. What Cincy recently came out of was a rebuilding period. A team that made the playoffs three or four years in a row, then missed the playoffs by a game, and starts 2-1 after spending $60+ million in free agent (and player trades and then contract extensions) money is not a team that went into the season with a plan to rebuild. Does that mean the Broncos will make the playoffs or win the SB? No, but then again most teams do neither each year.

As I said the bottom line is this we can call this a rebuilding year, a reloading year or whatever, but that doesn't seem to be the way Shanahan looks at it.

Tned
09-29-2007, 11:01 PM
We're reloading and that's all there is to it. :first:

While I think 'reloading' is a much less well defined NFL term, it is probably far more accurate here.

Tned
09-29-2007, 11:02 PM
As I said the bottom line is this we can call this a rebuilding year, a reloading year or whatever, but that doesn't seem to be the way Shanahan looks at it.

Agreed. I doubt he is ready to right this year off as a stepping stone for next year. I would guess (and that is all I can do) that he thinks he has a lot of talent on both sides of the ball, and has started the season 2-1 with a 1 game lead in his division. I doubt he is looking towards next year at this point in the season.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-29-2007, 11:07 PM
While I think 'reloading' is a much less well defined NFL term, it is probably far more accurate here.

Yeah, you don't hear it really at all - but rebuilding has always been associated with teams that hit rock bottom and have to make desperate changes from the GM on down to even get things moving again. I just don't see how we're rebuilding. Denver was 9-7 last year, not 4-12. Had Denver totally bombed out, I'd consider it a re-building year, however they adequately planned ahead of time and reloaded this offense and defense with younger players in hopes to make a smooth transition so they didn't have to rebuild from the ground up.

Denver made some big moves, (trading for Bly, signing Henry and Graham) but we're doing what we can to win. It's not like we necessarily had a weakness at corner or tight end to begin with. We just bolstered those positions. We got rid of Tatum, so obviously getting a running back was a priority. The biggest thing we addressed all year was the defensive line, drafting three players in hopes to be secure for the future.

Denver had the ability to go out and get who they wanted and they did that. I don't necessarily call that rebuilding, that's just reloading and smart football. According to Herc over on the Orange Mane, with the contracts being cleared from Warren to Plummer to Wilson, we're now 20 million under for next off-season. That's sweet. More big moves and re-signings of our core young players to come. :cool:

As you mentioned, with the definitions some are using, almost everyone is rebuilding.

Again, it's sort of a semantics issue - but there's no way we're "rebuilding" - if we finish below .500, I'd say for the next off-season we are. This past year. . . right now? Nah.

sneakers
09-30-2007, 01:30 AM
If you call 15-1 a rebuilding year....:D

omac
09-30-2007, 03:11 AM
So, just to be clear, you believe that Shanny and company went out and got Graham, Henry, Sam Adams and Bly not to win this year, but in order to 'sacrifice' this year in an attempt to rebuild a team to win in future years?

Is that what you are saying?

The reason I ask, is because rebuilding years are generally accepted as years when the team has no illusions about winning and simply realizes that it is a year or two (or more) away from winning and therefore makes moves intended to put them back into the winning ways in the future. In these rebuilding years, you often see rookies and young players getting experience, even if they aren't the best player to give the team a chance to win as many games 'this year' as they could by playing the veterans.

Great point! If this was a rebuilding year, we could've saved a whole lof of cash by not signing veterans who can contribute now. No mistake, Shanny has his sights set on the Superbowl. :beer:

Chica_Ang
09-30-2007, 04:14 AM
Gawd, Angie, I think I love you! :cool:

LOL :D


...

BroncoBJ
09-30-2007, 09:22 AM
There's a fine line between rebuilding and reloading, and Denver is reloading. Not rebuilding. Teams who rebuild finish in the bottom of the league, Denver missed out in the playoffs in the toughest conference in the league. We were 9 and 7 - not 4 and 12.

The great teams reload, the bad ones rebuild. We have a lot of new components, but it's not rebuilding. Rebuilding would be a complete upheaval from the ground up. Most teams who are rebuilding have their head coaches fired. Sure, we've shook some things up - but rebuilding is a term designated to teams who perform catastrophically, and Denver hasn't been "bad, bad" since they went 6 and 10.

Reloading folks, reloading.

Thats exactly what I've been saying.
Broncos dont rebuild they Reload.

And with that I'm predicting a 3-13 season but we will lose 10 games by 3 points or less so its not that bad. :lol

Just kidding.

I'm predicting 12-4 :P

Anything can happen.
I've seen stranger stuff happen.

Reloading. :elefant:

Tned
09-30-2007, 09:26 AM
Well, would you not agree that Shanahan's MO is "Superbowl or Bust"?

Does it look like Denver is a Superbowl favorite right now?

Or does it seem like we may need another year or two to get the right players for Bates' scheme, along with another season for Cutler and his weapons to develop before we can realistically even be even top 4 in our conference?

Yes, this team needs to "build" or in other words: get better.


I think most teams have a goal of wining the SB. Most of them don't do it by having the 'best' team in the NFL, but by fighting to get into the playoffs, because if you can, anything can happen.

Do I think the Broncos are a lock for the SB? No. Do I think they have no shot at the SB? No.

Nobody can deny that the moves Shanny made in the offseason were not the moves done by a 'rebuilding' team, but moves made by a team trying to get into the playoffs and win it all.

I have felt since before the season started that it would likely take about half the year for all these new pieces to start to come together and that if the team could get through the early schedule with a decent record, they could make a run at the playoffs and beyond in the second half.

HighPlainsBronc
09-30-2007, 10:37 AM
I do, I do! I've been saying that since the beginning of the season. You don't start a new QB, RB, TE, lose a key olineman, Wr, start a completely different DLine, lose the heart & soul of your D, move an OLB to MLB, start a lifelong backup MLB at OLB, fire old DLC, DC, ST coaches, hire new ones and expect to hold your position. Honestly, we're lucky to be doing as good as we are with all those changes.

:listen: I agree with you to a point. You are so very correct this early in the season, BUT, as the season progresses I think that we will get stronger as the team begins to come together. We have a lot of very good players wearing the Bronco uniform but as yet they do not have the cohesion that makes them a TEAM. As the season progresses, I believe the team spirit will grow and by the end of the season the Bronco team will be as strong as any team. I hope it will come soon enough to put us in the play-offs. Then look out NFL!



Just think, we could be as bad as New Orleans or the Dolphins.

People are disappointed because they had THEIR expectations too high. Did people really expect we were going to start all these rookies and FA's, coaching changes, and go 16-0? :laugh: That's laughable, at best.

I am only hoping that we get into the play-offs. It may be a rocky road to get there. :ahhhhh:

Watchthemiddle
09-30-2007, 05:38 PM
So...is this a rebuilding year ..or did we just reload?

:coffee:

Requiem / The Dagda
09-30-2007, 05:40 PM
So...is this a rebuilding year ..or did we just reload?

:coffee:

So, losing to the Colts (Super Bowl Champions) is now the mainstay behind your theory?

silkamilkamonico
09-30-2007, 05:42 PM
So...is this a rebuilding year ..or did we just reload?

:coffee:

If you're insinuating this is a rebuilding year, let's trade Bailey for multiple draft picks.

That's what rebuilding teams do.

Tned
09-30-2007, 05:53 PM
So...is this a rebuilding year ..or did we just reload?

:coffee:

With the amount of :coffee: you are drinking, you are going to need a catheter inserted.

If we lose 14 straight, it still won't be a 'rebuilding' year because the team did not make 'rebuilding' moves in the offseason.

Geez...

Watchthemiddle
09-30-2007, 05:54 PM
So, losing to the Colts (Super Bowl Champions) is now the mainstay behind your theory?

Well lets see...we are experimenting with a DE at tackle...that should answer anyones question about our team.

We are 4 weeks into the season and still experimenting.

experimenting = rebuilding.

Colts = reloaded and rolling.

:coffee:

Requiem / The Dagda
09-30-2007, 05:56 PM
Well lets see...we are experimenting with a DE at tackle...that should answer anyones question about our team.

We are 4 weeks into the season and still experimenting.

experimenting = rebuilding.

Colts = reloaded and rolling.

:coffee:

You don't have a clue, so why don't you shut the heckkkkkkkkkkkk up?

Watchthemiddle
09-30-2007, 05:58 PM
Okay for all of you too afraid to admit we are rebuilding...let me make a compromise.

We have 'reloaded' the offense...and are rebuilding the defense.

Geez

Watchthemiddle
09-30-2007, 05:59 PM
You don't have a clue, so why don't you shut the **** up?

So I am wrong about the DE at tackle?

Why the hostility?

Aren't you the one who said "stop sniping at each other"? in the Other thread.

Dont' hate on me because I am right. :elefant:

Requiem / The Dagda
09-30-2007, 06:03 PM
So I am wrong about the DE at tackle?

Why the hostility?

Aren't you the one who said "stop sniping at each other"? in the Other thread.

Dont' hate on me because I am right. :elefant:

No, you're not right.

Tned
09-30-2007, 06:03 PM
Okay for all of you too afraid to admit we are rebuilding...let me make a compromise.

We have 'reloaded' the offense...and are rebuilding the defense.

Geez

It has nothing to do with being afraid. That is simply a ridiculous statement that is meant to inflame.

It is that teams either start the season rebuilding or they don't. Denver didn't start the season rebuilding. They traded most of their draft picks to get a handful of players they thought could help immediately. They paid big dollars for two free agent players on offense, and traded for a starting QB and then signed him to a BIG contract ($16 mill or so guaranteed). They signed Sam Adams and Rice.

Those are not things teams do when they are preparing to 'rebuild' that is what teams do when they think they can 'compete'.

What some of you guys don't seem capable of grasping is that having a bad year, even a horrible year, does not equate to rebuilding, instead it often LEADS to rebuilding.

That is a HUGE distinction that some can't grasp.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-30-2007, 06:04 PM
Also, the Broncos de-activated Adams today because there is no way in hell he'd be in shape to run the no huddle. Defensive tackle has been a problem even with the additions on the team, that's been noted on many occasions.

Watchthemiddle
09-30-2007, 06:08 PM
Well I guess we are reloading a 9-7 team that is reloaded to go 9-7 or 8-8. WHOOO HOOOO!!!

money well spent.

:rolleyes: <--- too much coffee

Requiem / The Dagda
09-30-2007, 06:10 PM
Well I guess we are reloading a 9-7 team that is reloaded to go 9-7 or 8-8. WHOOO HOOOO!!!

money well spent.

:rolleyes: <--- too much coffee

I don't even think it's the coffee.

News to you, Denver is still in a tie (technically) for first place in their division. 9-7 or 8-8 is probably good enough to win this division.

Watchthemiddle
09-30-2007, 06:17 PM
I don't even think it's the coffee.

News to you, Denver is still in a tie (technically) for first place in their division. 9-7 or 8-8 is probably good enough to win this division.

WOW!!!

A tie with KC and the Raiders at 2-2. We sure do know how to reload. Nothing says reloading like mediocre.

:congrats:

topscribe
09-30-2007, 06:20 PM
WTM is a little down right now. He and anybody else has a right to express his
opinion about the team without getting told to shut up.

I hope this is the only message I have to impart regarding this.

-----

Reidman
09-30-2007, 06:26 PM
Why is everyone so hot anyway. We ALL expected this....

Reloading, rebuilding....what friggin difference does it make..??

lex
09-30-2007, 06:26 PM
In all honesty, we should have stopped them more in the first half with the DE at DT scheme but we missed too many tackles. Our LBs arent much better than our DTs.

xX-Bronco-Xx
09-30-2007, 06:29 PM
We really need some leadership on that defense because it looked heartless today. It always seems that they just let things happen without even caring and they just don't have that emotional leader to keep their morals up and to play hard.

Yeah yeah people are going to say we have Champ and Lynch but to be honest they are the type of leaders that lead mostly through their play but I think we need something thats a loudmouth crazy SOB with a lot of charisma sort of like dare I say.... Ray Lewis. :whoknows:

lex
09-30-2007, 06:30 PM
WOW!!!

A tie with KC and the Raiders at 2-2. We sure do know how to reload. Nothing says reloading like mediocre.

:congrats:

We should be 3-1 but that wouldnt really reflect our problems. In all honesty, our offense has moved the ball well enough but weve had such problems on defense, 2-2 is about right. And thats with Indy in our rear view mirror. We need to improve a lot but were young so hopefully it happens.

Uncle Buck
09-30-2007, 06:30 PM
What some of you guys don't seem capable of grasping is that having a bad year, even a horrible year, does not equate to rebuilding, instead it often LEADS to rebuilding.

That is a HUGE distinction that some can't grasp.

That is one of the best assessments on "who we are" I've heard in a long time. :salute:

So when does the defensive rebuilding begin? :mad:

xX-Bronco-Xx
09-30-2007, 06:30 PM
Why is everyone so hot anyway. We ALL expected this....

Reloading, rebuilding....what friggin difference does it make..??

That's what I was thinking :laugh:

But really though we are going through a transition right now that isn't looking so great so far but I think as time passes we'll get things clicking.

Watchthemiddle
09-30-2007, 06:31 PM
We should be 3-1 but that wouldnt really reflect our problems. In all honesty, our offense has moved the ball well enough but weve had such problems on defense, 2-2 is about right. And thats with Indy in our rear view mirror. We need to improve a lot but were young so hopefully it happens.

Just like we "should" be 3-1...some could say we could/should be 0-4 also.

lex
09-30-2007, 06:32 PM
We really need some leadership on that defense because it looked heartless today. It always seems that they just let things happen without even caring and they just don't have that emotional leader to keep their morals up and to play hard.

Yeah yeah people are going to say we have Champ and Lynch but to be honest they are the type of leaders that lead mostly through their play but I think we need something thats a loudmouth crazy SOB with a lot of charisma sort of like dare I say.... Ray Lewis. :whoknows:

We dont need leadership as much as we need guys who can play and or take pride in their play. Face it, we have a bunch of stiffs. We need talent more than anything. Our LBs are suddenly poor.

lex
09-30-2007, 06:33 PM
Just like we "should" be 3-1...some could say we could/should be 0-4 also.

Im not saying so much that we should be 3-1 as Im saying 2-2 is actually the more accurate reflection of how weve played so far.

Uncle Buck
09-30-2007, 06:34 PM
WTM is a little down right now. He and anybody else has a right to express his
opinion about the team without getting told to shut up.

I hope this is the only message I have to impart regarding this.

-----

Exactly, Tops! :2thumbs:

xX-Bronco-Xx
09-30-2007, 06:35 PM
We dont need leadership as much as we need guys who can play and or take pride in their play. Face it, we have a bunch of stiffs. We need talent more than anything. Our LBs are suddenly poor.

I think we have play makers it's just that we don't have enough motivation to start making those big plays, stripping the ball, or doing anything. It seems to me the defense is just playing bleh (if that makes any sense :laugh:)

lex
09-30-2007, 06:38 PM
I think we have play makers it's just that we don't have enough motivation to start making those big plays, stripping the ball, or doing anything. It seems to me the defense is just playing bleh (if that makes any sense :laugh:)

We need to worry more about making tackles first. We have vets who arent getting it done in this regard. And we also only have one DT to be optimistic about.

topscribe
09-30-2007, 06:48 PM
In all honesty, we should have stopped them more in the first half with the DE at DT scheme but we missed too many tackles. Our LBs arent much better than our DTs.

Actually, Lex, I think Williams and Webster are fine, although I believe we
could use an upgrade over Gold. But I think we would be amazed at how much
our LBs have improved, once we have some decent DTs in front of them.

IMHO.

-----

BigBroncLove
09-30-2007, 06:52 PM
Actually, Lex, I think Williams and Webster are fine, although I believe we
could use an upgrade over Gold. But I think we would be amazed at how much
our LBs have improved, once we have some decent DTs in front of them.

IMHO.

-----

I agree 100% :beer:

xX-Bronco-Xx
09-30-2007, 06:55 PM
Yes we need some athletic big macs in the tackle position that can clog up space but also react and make the plays.

So far our DT's are just big walruses.

topscribe
09-30-2007, 07:01 PM
Yes we need some athletic big macs in the tackle position that can clog up space but also react and make the plays.

So far our DT's are just big walruses.

Served without mustard.

-----

Requiem / The Dagda
09-30-2007, 07:02 PM
Which one of my favorite posters wants a sneak peak at the mock draft that has Denver taking some Fatty McFatsies!?

topscribe
09-30-2007, 07:05 PM
Which one of my favorite posters wants a sneak peak at the mock draft that has Denver taking some Fatty McFatsies!?

What did I tell you?

Show me in the Draft forum.

-----

Lonestar
09-30-2007, 07:21 PM
Well reloading IMHO means that you are a successful team and just plugging in a few players to upgrade at weak positions or replacing lost players.

We have not had that situation since 1999 frankly mikey has been hoping his patchwork fixes would do the job.


Each year it has been something else was wrong.

Were it really boils down to the main reason this franchise has lost in the playoffs since John departure is the same reason we are losing this year.


The DLINE sucks can stop the run and can not consistently pressure a good QB.

We lost in 2003 to Manning no rush got Champ.
We lost to Manning 2004 got Darrent, foxworthless and Paymah.
We lost to BEN 2005 due to no rush and blitzing all day.
We lost in 2006 due to no rush.

It is and has always boiled down to a lack of pressure and stopping a Quality RB.

Gone are the days when you can simply outscore the you have to be able to STOP THEM.


BTW was I the only one seeing foxworth get beat play after play today?

And while Jay is a budding star he is playing like a rookie inconsistent.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-30-2007, 07:35 PM
I think that our ends are getting decent pressure, but the interior of the defensive line needs to win in the trenches for that to happen on a consistent basis. If not, the one on match-ups our defensive ends should win due to their athleticism go for nothing because instead of it being one on one, they have several blockers in their faces. I'll address this as soon as my mock gets up later this evening. Look for a launch at about 10:00 PM CST.

Watchthemiddle
09-30-2007, 07:38 PM
I think that our ends are getting decent pressure, but the interior of the defensive line needs to win in the trenches for that to happen on a consistent basis. If not, the one on match-ups our defensive ends should win due to their athleticism go for nothing because instead of it being one on one, they have several blockers in their faces. I'll address this as soon as my mock gets up later this evening. Look for a launch at about 10:00 PM CST.

A mock draft so early in this season? :confused: how is that? :confused: How can you determine where we will draft? :confused:

Requiem / The Dagda
09-30-2007, 07:43 PM
A mock draft so early in this season? :confused: how is that? :confused: How can you determine where we will draft? :confused:

Mock drafts are for fun, and since the NFL Draft is my favorite time of the year, I end up doing more than I actually should. It's been my plan on the Beat since the get-go to do mock drafts after every four week period of the regular season to see where our team is at. I think four mock drafts regarding our team over the season is a good process, and an apt one. After four games, you can already get a sense of where we're at as a team, and you can see how the new players and personnel are fitting into their roles. Four weeks later, you get an even better impression, and so on and so on.

As far as the position we're drafting, I just assume. I don't think we'll be bottom scrapers and as of right now we're a 2-2 team with a legitimate shot at winning our division. I just go with my gut. I actually can (by record) breakdown where we're drafting, and that's not the tough part. Guessing who we'll draft and when is always difficult. People seem to enjoy it, and I seem to be pretty good at it.

I do it for those who are interested, that's what matters.

gobroncsnv
09-30-2007, 07:46 PM
Well reloading IMHO means that you are a successful team and just plugging in a few players to upgrade at weak positions or replacing lost players.

We have not had that situation since 1999 frankly mikey has been hoping his patchwork fixes would do the job.


Each year it has been something else was wrong.

Were it really boils down to the main reason this franchise has lost in the playoffs since John departure is the same reason we are losing this year.


The DLINE sucks can stop the run and can not consistently pressure a good QB.

We lost in 2003 to Manning no rush got Champ.
We lost to Manning 2004 got Darrent, foxworthless and Paymah.
We lost to BEN 2005 due to no rush and blitzing all day.
We lost in 2006 due to no rush.

It is and has always boiled down to a lack of pressure and stopping a Quality RB.

Gone are the days when you can simply outscore the you have to be able to STOP THEM.


BTW was I the only one seeing foxworth get beat play after play today?

And while Jay is a budding star he is playing like a rookie inconsistent.

Well, semantics are certainly not the problem... It appears that we are worse than Tennessee this year. Compare to how they lost, and how we did. They have a decent pass rush, and some DT's to hold down their positions. I'm thinking we're out of linebackers. DJ shows flashes, but I see Gold being mostly ineffective, and Webster over-runs too many plays. Granted, we didn't have Lynch out there today, but I can't bring myself to think that he would have made the difference.

Strange to think that the loser of next week's game with the Chargers faces last place in the West. I'm ready to concede the point, we have a LOT of weaknesses right now, and more experience for some will not cure all of our ills. We're rebuilding.

topscribe
09-30-2007, 07:47 PM
I think that our ends are getting decent pressure, but the interior of the defensive line needs to win in the trenches for that to happen on a consistent basis. If not, the one on match-ups our defensive ends should win due to their athleticism go for nothing because instead of it being one on one, they have several blockers in their faces. I'll address this as soon as my mock gets up later this evening. Look for a launch at about 10:00 PM CST.

I said last year that I thought we should go after DTs before we did DEs. We
were getting decent pressure from DEs then, too, but it seemed all the QB
had to do is to step forward in the pocket to avoid the DEs because the DTs
were doing nothing toward pushing that pocket.

JR hit the dead-center bull's eye with his "patchwork" remark, IMO. In camp,
DT was the most populous position on the team with 17 vying for a job. I
had high hopes . . . was giddy about it, actually. As it turned out, the
Broncos had two good DTs (Adams, Thomas) and 15 bums. And now, they
are in the same pickle they were last year . . . worse, actually: They didn't
have problems against the run to this degree.

Going into next year, the Broncos will have adequate to good personnel at
every position, except DT. Honestly, it would not hurt my feelings to see
every single draft selection devoted to a DT this next year.

-----

Requiem / The Dagda
09-30-2007, 07:51 PM
I said last year that I thought we should go after DTs before we did DEs. We
were getting decent pressure from DEs then, too, but it seemed all the QB
had to do is to step forward in the pocket to avoid the DEs because the DTs
were doing nothing toward pushing that pocket.

JR, hit the dead-center bull's eye with his "patchwork" remark, IMO. In camp,
DT was the most populous position on the team with 17 vying for a job. I
had high hopes . . . was giddy about it, actually. As it turned out, the
Broncos had two good DTs (Adams, Thomas) and 15 bums. And now, they
are in the same pickle they were last you . . . worse, actually: They didn't
have problems against the run to this degree.

Going into next year, the Broncos will have adequate to good personnel at
every position, except DT. Honestly, it would not hurt my feelings to see
every single draft selection devoted to a DT this next year.

-----

Well, Denver actually agreed with your sentiments considering Justin Harrell was their number one target on the board. That's why instead of selecting Moss, I flipped the pick to Harrell in my final mock draft because I received good word that the Broncos were impressed with him and really thought he could be the interior presence they needed. Long story short, as you might know - Harrell and Timmons (LB) went off the board and the Broncos opted to move up and get Moss.

Through four games thus far, it's quite obvious that DT and LB are still positions the Broncos need to address and they'll do it. Coincidentally (not really) those are the two first selections I have them grabbing in the mock draft thus far. I'd be completely surprised if Denver didn't select either of those positions with the first two selections, I think we'll do at least one - but I am almost positive we'll go for both.

You'll read more about it in the mock later, but I'm on my way out on the town for a bit, so I'll catch up with you later.

There's a lot of unfinished business that needs to be taken care of. Denver losing picks via the Wilson and Plummer trades absolutely killed their draft plans.

Watchthemiddle
09-30-2007, 08:00 PM
Kinda funny, we play Tennessee this year and I thought it's be an easy W. Now? :tsk:

The defense is being built almost from the ground up. It's almost as if we've switched to a 3-4... most of our players are poor fits in the scheme (before the draft etc.)

Couldn't of said it better myself.

lex
09-30-2007, 08:35 PM
Well, Denver actually agreed with your sentiments considering Justin Harrell was their number one target on the board. That's why instead of selecting Moss, I flipped the pick to Harrell in my final mock draft because I received good word that the Broncos were impressed with him and really thought he could be the interior presence they needed. Long story short, as you might know - Harrell and Timmons (LB) went off the board and the Broncos opted to move up and get Moss.

Through four games thus far, it's quite obvious that DT and LB are still positions the Broncos need to address and they'll do it. Coincidentally (not really) those are the two first selections I have them grabbing in the mock draft thus far. I'd be completely surprised if Denver didn't select either of those positions with the first two selections, I think we'll do at least one - but I am almost positive we'll go for both.

You'll read more about it in the mock later, but I'm on my way out on the town for a bit, so I'll catch up with you later.

There's a lot of unfinished business that needs to be taken care of. Denver losing picks via the Wilson and Plummer trades absolutely killed their draft plans.

We have enough needs that it justifies trading down a little ways if the option was there since the trade value chart favors higher picks so much. Since there are a couple of space eating DTs available that suit that need, it might make sense to trade down a little ways. So much of it depends on where people pick but Im actually hoping to trade down provided we can multiply our picks. With that extra pick, Id actually like to get another DT or LB.

gobroncsnv
09-30-2007, 08:39 PM
Our defense has a new coach, players, style and scheme. What else do they need? New uniforms? :laugh:

And before someone brings up Champ Bailey, most teams getting overhauls do have holdovers from the previous system :rolleyes:

Notwithstanding, that is one of the hardest positions to fill, let alone with the quality that Champ brings us. Bummer is, the other one is DT.

Watchthemiddle
10-08-2007, 04:12 PM
Well if it wasn't a rebuilding year to begin with, it sure is turning into one now.

Medford Bronco
10-08-2007, 04:32 PM
Well if it wasn't a rebuilding year to begin with, it sure is turning into one now.

I guess my bad feelings are coming true :sad:

Watchthemiddle
10-08-2007, 04:39 PM
I guess my bad feelings are coming true :sad:

I don't think its a bad thing to classify this as a re-building year. I even said that before the debacle on sunday.

There is no shame in rebuilding. If we are going to keep saying Cutler gets a free pass for this year adn even next, then we ALL need to classify this as rebuilding and build this team up so when 2009 comes around we are strong for years to come.

Build it from the ground up. Through the draft. Forget bringing in journeymen players that are washed up from other teams that are bottom feeders that don't even want them.

Tned
10-08-2007, 05:37 PM
I don't think its a bad thing to classify this as a re-building year. I even said that before the debacle on sunday.

There is no shame in rebuilding. If we are going to keep saying Cutler gets a free pass for this year adn even next, then we ALL need to classify this as rebuilding and build this team up so when 2009 comes around we are strong for years to come.

Build it from the ground up. Through the draft. Forget bringing in journeymen players that are washed up from other teams that are bottom feeders that don't even want them.

There is no shame in rebuilding, it is just that you and some others have completely mischaracterized the season by calling it a rebuilding year. We could go 2-14 and it still wouldn't be a rebuilding year, it would be a horrible, losing season, but not a rebuilding year.

Just to make sure my 'broken record' status is well established, it doesn't become a rebuilding year because you have injuries and lose a lot of games. It is a 'rebuilding' year when a team makes moves focused on 'rebuilding' to win in future seasons, at the sacrifice of wins in the current season. Clearly, that is not what the Broncos did. The Broncos went and spent big money on free agents: Henry, Graham and Bly (traded for, but signed to big money becuase that was what it took based on his desire to not play in Denver). At to that Sam Adams and Rice being brought in at the end of their careers to help (in theory if not reality) the team this year, and those are not the moves of a 'rebuilding' team.

While the results have clearly not been what the management or talking-head experts expected, it is a complete joke to now re-write history and tried and clain that this is/was a rebuilding year, when it clearly wasn't.

Can the team make the worst of this? Maybe, but again, it made moves for this year, not for the future, so it didn't have the benefit of making 'rebuilding' moves in the offseason, so the only 'rebuilding' blocks they have are the handful of draft picks from this year and younger players that were already on the roster.

I'm glad the three straight losses 'seem' to give you guys that are pushing the 'rebuilding' claim a perceived boost to your incorrect stance on the subject, but it still doesn't make your incorrect stance any less incorrect.

TXBRONC
10-08-2007, 05:42 PM
There is no shame in rebuilding, it is just that you and some others have completely mischaracterized the season by calling it a rebuilding year. We could go 2-14 and it still wouldn't be a rebuilding year, it would be a horrible, losing season, but not a rebuilding year.

Just to make sure my 'broken record' status is well established, it doesn't become a rebuilding year because you have injuries and lose a lot of games. It is a 'rebuilding' year when a team makes moves focused on 'rebuilding' to win in future seasons, at the sacrifice of wins in the current season. Clearly, that is not what the Broncos did. The Broncos went and spent big money on free agents: Henry, Graham and Bly (traded for, but signed to big money becuase that was what it took based on his desire to not play in Denver). At to that Sam Adams and Rice being brought in at the end of their careers to help (in theory if not reality) the team this year, and those are not the moves of a 'rebuilding' team.

While the results have clearly not been what the management or talking-head experts expected, it is a complete joke to now re-write history and tried and clain that this is/was a rebuilding year, when it clearly wasn't.

Can the team make the worst of this? Maybe, but again, it made moves for this year, not for the future, so it didn't have the benefit of making 'rebuilding' moves in the offseason, so the only 'rebuilding' blocks they have are the handful of draft picks from this year and younger players that were already on the roster.

I'm glad the three straight losses 'seem' to give you guys that are pushing the 'rebuilding' claim a perceived boost to your incorrect stance on the subject, but it still doesn't make your incorrect stance any less incorrect.

I've been in agreement with you on this from the beginning. If we as fans think of it as a rebuilding year that's fine. However, that's not what was thinking as he put this roster together.

I also like your point about having injuries and losing several games as indicative of rebuilding.

By the way how was the vacation minus the trip back?

Medford Bronco
10-08-2007, 05:46 PM
There is no shame in rebuilding, it is just that you and some others have completely mischaracterized the season by calling it a rebuilding year. We could go 2-14 and it still wouldn't be a rebuilding year, it would be a horrible, losing season, but not a rebuilding year.

Just to make sure my 'broken record' status is well established, it doesn't become a rebuilding year because you have injuries and lose a lot of games. It is a 'rebuilding' year when a team makes moves focused on 'rebuilding' to win in future seasons, at the sacrifice of wins in the current season. Clearly, that is not what the Broncos did. The Broncos went and spent big money on free agents: Henry, Graham and Bly (traded for, but signed to big money becuase that was what it took based on his desire to not play in Denver). At to that Sam Adams and Rice being brought in at the end of their careers to help (in theory if not reality) the team this year, and those are not the moves of a 'rebuilding' team.

While the results have clearly not been what the management or talking-head experts expected, it is a complete joke to now re-write history and tried and clain that this is/was a rebuilding year, when it clearly wasn't.

Can the team make the worst of this? Maybe, but again, it made moves for this year, not for the future, so it didn't have the benefit of making 'rebuilding' moves in the offseason, so the only 'rebuilding' blocks they have are the handful of draft picks from this year and younger players that were already on the roster.

I'm glad the three straight losses 'seem' to give you guys that are pushing the 'rebuilding' claim a perceived boost to your incorrect stance on the subject, but it still doesn't make your incorrect stance any less incorrect.

sorry to upset you tned on the subject.

I just feel when you suck as a team and we clearly do you
build for the future. transiton or whatever you want to call it.

The offseason FA in the offense were okay but the defense is what should have been addressed at LB, and d line obvioiusly.

hope to not ruffle feathers here as all bronco fans are clearly frustrated with this. I though we would lose yesteday but not get massacred like we did

Tned
10-08-2007, 05:49 PM
I've been in agreement with you on this from the beginning. If we as fans think of it as a rebuilding year that's fine. However, that's not what was thinking as he put this roster together.

I also like your point about having injuries and losing several games as indicative of rebuilding.

By the way how was the vacation minus the trip back?

It was good. We spent a few days down at the Riverwalk in San Antonio. Didn't do much, other than see a couple movies, and just chill. The wife did some shopping, went to some nice restaraunts. It was nice. :D

Tned
10-08-2007, 05:56 PM
sorry to upset you tned on the subject.

I just feel when you suck as a team and we clearly do you
build for the future. transiton or whatever you want to call it.

The offseason FA in the offense were okay but the defense is what should have been addressed at LB, and d line obvioiusly.

hope to not ruffle feathers here as all bronco fans are clearly frustrated with this. I though we would lose yesteday but not get massacred like we did

It's great semantical in reality. No ruffled feathers here.

My point is that while you can try and make the best of a bad situation, by starting to play younger players for instance, it cannot be a true 'rebuilding' year, because in order to rebuild you need building blocks. Take LB. The team made no rebuilding moves at LB, because clearly they thought they could get by competing this year. If they planned on rebuilding the LB corps, they would have figured out a way to get young talent in to prepare for the future. Same with the secondary. Why have Lynch and Ferguson out there if you are 'rebuilding' for future years?

As I have said in previous posts, teams typically have rebuilding year(s) 'after' having a horrible year. They rebuild as a reaction to the bad year(s), take advantage of good draft picks and make personell moves designed to build the team for the future.

Medford Bronco
10-08-2007, 05:57 PM
It's great semantical in reality. No ruffled feathers here.

My point is that while you can try and make the best of a bad situation, by starting to play younger players for instance, it cannot be a true 'rebuilding' year, because in order to rebuild you need building blocks. Take LB. The team made no rebuilding moves at LB, because clearly they thought they could get by competing this year. If they planned on rebuilding the LB corps, they would have figured out a way to get young talent in to prepare for the future. Same with the secondary. Why have Lynch and Ferguson out there if you are 'rebuilding' for future years?

As I have said in previous posts, teams typically have rebuilding year(s) 'after' having a horrible year. They rebuild as a reaction to the bad year(s), take advantage of good draft picks and make personell moves designed to build the team for the future.


then next year might be rebuilding for us :couch: :laugh:

gotta have a sense of humor now or you cant even watch football.

Watchthemiddle
10-08-2007, 06:03 PM
It's great semantical in reality. No ruffled feathers here.

My point is that while you can try and make the best of a bad situation, by starting to play younger players for instance, it cannot be a true 'rebuilding' year, because in order to rebuild you need building blocks. Take LB. The team made no rebuilding moves at LB, because clearly they thought they could get by competing this year. If they planned on rebuilding the LB corps, they would have figured out a way to get young talent in to prepare for the future. Same with the secondary. Why have Lynch and Ferguson out there if you are 'rebuilding' for future years?

As I have said in previous posts, teams typically have rebuilding year(s) 'after' having a horrible year. They rebuild as a reaction to the bad year(s), take advantage of good draft picks and make personell moves designed to build the team for the future.


9-7 for us and not making the playoffs is a horrible year. And what I put in red is exactly what we did in the offseason. The problem is, so far our building has not paid off. Henry might be gone for the season through legal issues, D Graham has 10 catches, Bly has been a bust so far giving up big play after Big play...Stokley has been good when given a chance to make a play..........

TXBRONC
10-08-2007, 06:37 PM
9-7 for us and not making the playoffs is a horrible year. And what I put in red is exactly what we did in the offseason. The problem is, so far our building has not paid off. Henry might be gone for the season through legal issues, D Graham has 10 catches, Bly has been a bust so far giving up big play after Big play...Stokley has been good when given a chance to make a play..........

If you as a fan believe that we are rebuilding then finishing 9-7 is pretty good for a rebuilding team.

Watchthemiddle
10-08-2007, 06:52 PM
If you as a fan believe that we are rebuilding then finishing 9-7 is pretty good for a rebuilding team.

I didn't say we were rebuilding last year, I am saying we are rebuilding this year after going 9-7.

Tned
10-08-2007, 11:23 PM
then next year might be rebuilding for us :couch: :laugh:


Depending on how this year goes, next year could very well begin a rebuilding phase. Based on the Broncos history the last 20 years, and even more so in the Shanahan era, it is unlikely this team will go through a rebuilding phase as almost every other team has done during Shanny's reign. However, it is possible, depending on whether or not this team turns it around this year and believes it has the pieces to compete next year.


9-7 for us and not making the playoffs is a horrible year. And what I put in red is exactly what we did in the offseason. The problem is, so far our building has not paid off. Henry might be gone for the season through legal issues, D Graham has 10 catches, Bly has been a bust so far giving up big play after Big play...Stokley has been good when given a chance to make a play..........

No, it is a 'horrible' year for the fans, because we are spoiled. However, it is not a horrible year for the Broncos. The team has only made the playoffs about half of the years since the SB years. What the Broncos have done better than just about any other team over the last 20 years is not have losing seasons, but that doesn't mean they have made the playoffs every year, and they certainly have not gone into 'rebuilding' phases every time they missed the playoffs.

Can you honestly tell me that you believe that the moves Shanny and company made in the offseason were moves made by a team entering a rebuilding phase???? Come on. Can you honestly say that?

DenBronx
10-08-2007, 11:24 PM
im officially on the rebuilding year bandwagon. i wont even wait till the bye week is over.

sorry go ahead and flame away...

Tned
10-09-2007, 03:37 AM
Well, I know there is a tendency by many to only selectively 'believe' what Shanahan says, based on whether or not his statements conincide with posters views (Kubiak calling the plays, Hamilton heir apparent at center, no QB controversy, etc.), but this comments from him do not indicate wholesale changes and a transition (if that is even possible mid-season) into a rebuilding year:


For those who are expecting a bye-week shakeup in the wake of the Broncos' worst home defeat in 41 years, think again.

"There will be no major changes," coach Mike Shanahan said Monday, a day after Denver's defensive and special-teams issues continued, along with sloppiness on offense, in a 41-3 defeat to San Diego. Shanahan said he is confident the team has the personnel to be competitive. The Broncos are 2-3 and a half-game behind Oakland in the AFC West.

"It starts with me," Shanahan said. "I need to get them better prepared. We'll go back to practicing the little things and hopefully get better. It's very similar to what teams have done in the past; starting out slow and finishing strong."

The Broncos will practice today and Wednesday, then get the next four days off.

The Broncos have open roster spots because of season-ending injuries to center Tom Nalen and tight end Nate Jackson. The team may wait until early next week to fill them.

The NFL trading deadline is a week from today, but Denver is not expected to swing any significant deals.

Shanahan said he believes the team will get better through practice and continued coaching.

"There's no magic to it," Shanahan said. "You just got to get better."

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_7122869?source=rss

TXBRONC
10-09-2007, 07:13 AM
Depending on how this year goes, next year could very well begin a rebuilding phase. Based on the Broncos history the last 20 years, and even more so in the Shanahan era, it is unlikely this team will go through a rebuilding phase as almost every other team has done during Shanny's reign. However, it is possible, depending on whether or not this team turns it around this year and believes it has the pieces to compete next year.



No, it is a 'horrible' year for the fans, because we are spoiled. However, it is not a horrible year for the Broncos. The team has only made the playoffs about half of the years since the SB years. What the Broncos have done better than just about any other team over the last 20 years is not have losing seasons, but that doesn't mean they have made the playoffs every year, and they certainly have not gone into 'rebuilding' phases every time they missed the playoffs.

Can you honestly tell me that you believe that the moves Shanny and company made in the offseason were moves made by a team entering a rebuilding phase???? Come on. Can you honestly say that?

I don't how anyone can consider it rebuilding year and still make the playoffs. I'm not aware of any teams who have the expectation of making the playoffs while they're rebuilding.

Tned
10-09-2007, 11:59 AM
Well the team decided it need a brand new approach (philosophy) on one side of the ball, and brought in radically different players. Rightfully so... They also kept the same system on the other side of the ball, replaced what they needed... but the system was fine. There was never any "sacrificing" of the season.

I can think of another team who fits that description the same. They had the #1 overall pick in the draft last year: The Oakland Raiders.

Brand new offense
Defense kept intact


Now would you say the Raiders "reloaded"?

Answering a question with a question?

I'll answer your question, and then maybe you can do the same. We all know that the Raiders have been in a rebuilding phase since the 4 win season following the SB appearance. Does anyone think that following the SB appearance, they planned on having a 'rebuilding' year and 4 wins? Or, did they think they were going to be right back competing? The fact is that the horrible season following the SB season lead to a rebuilding phase that included only having 15 TOTAL wins in four seasons.

What similarity do the Denver Broncos hold to the Oakland Raiders and their 2 win season last year?

Anway, back to the question you quoted, but didn't answer.

Can you honestly tell me that you believe that the moves Shanny and company made in the offseason were moves made by a team entering a rebuilding phase???? Come on. Can you honestly say that?

Tned
10-09-2007, 12:07 PM
I don't how anyone can consider it rebuilding year and still make the playoffs. I'm not aware of any teams who have the expectation of making the playoffs while they're rebuilding.

Exactly, teams make moves with oe of two things in mind. Development for the future, or winning now, at the possible expense of the future. Denver clearly was opting for win now, at the possible expense of the future.

Does anyone remember all the off season/ pre-season posts about how Shanny probably mortgage the future (in terms of salary cap) by trying to win NOW???? How he shouldn't have spent so much guaranteed money on so few players, because 2 or 3 years down the road we would be handcuffed?

Rebuilding teams don't eek out every dime under the salary cap and figure they will figure out a way to juggle the cap next year, and the year after. 'Rebuilding' teams are often 20-40 million under the cap, because they are signing and playing young players they are devloping and have no need to possibly 'mortgage the future'. Example being SF in recent years. They have been way under the salary cap, because they were in a rebuilding phase taking their high draft picks, turning them into young talent and waiting for that talent to develop, rather than spending too much money on over the hill players who might have one or two good seasons left in them and be the difference in getting your team to the playoffs and beyond.


I'm curious TX. How many teams in the league aren't trying to win now?

No team doesn't try to win, however any given year there are quite a few that are clearly making personell decisions based on winning in the future, not winning this season. Most teams (in recent memory, the Broncos have been one of the few exceptions) go through cyclical patterns. They win or have decent seasons for a while, and then they have several horrible seasons that are rebuilding years.

Tned
10-09-2007, 05:09 PM
I'm here not so much to defend the "rebuild" label. I just think "reloading" is a ridiculous freaking term for this team.


I never used the reloading tag, and if I did, it was only repeating someone else or agreeing that it was more accurate than rebuilding.

The only thing I have contended, and still do, is that people can't claim it is a rebuilding year, just because a team loses a few games or even 10 or 12. It either was a rebuilding year, with offseason moves intended to rebuild, or it was an offseason with moves intended to win this year. The moves were clearly made with the belief that the team could be competitive in 2007.

TXBRONC
10-09-2007, 05:13 PM
I'm curious TX. How many teams in the league aren't trying to win now?

Every team wants to win games. However are you trying say that every team in League feels they have shot at getting to the Super Bowl? Hardly. There are always some teams that know that they are transitioning and they not going be real competitive.