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View Full Version : Brief, complicated offseason hinders chances of Orton trade



Denver Native (Carol)
05-25-2011, 05:47 PM
Interesting article


When people discuss the offseason quarterback market -- you know, when we have an actual market and all -- Kyle Orton is generally lumped in with the usual suspects like Matt Hasselbeck, Donovan McNabb, Kevin Kolb, Marc Bulger and Vince Young. But to me, he is a very different case. Unlike the others.

You see, there is no doubt that guys like Hasselbeck and Bulger will be unrestricted free agents. Young will be dealt or released, eventually, as will McNabb, for reasons financial and otherwise. The Eagles' desire to deal Kolb is established league-wide. Orton is a different case.

The Broncos aren't looking to deal him. They aren't loaded with intent to move him. They can see many scenarios and projections with him as their starter to open the 2011 season -- in fact, that's precisely what the people I've talked to there expect to be the case.

It's apples and oranges compared to the rest of this group. Could he be dealt? Certainly. Wayne Gretzky was traded in his prime for goodness sakes. It's pro sports, anything is possible. But are the Broncos under anything close to the pressure or desire to unload him as these other teams are in cases like Kolb and McNabb? Not close.

rest of article - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8200200c/article/brief-complicated-offseason-hinders-chances-of-orton-trade?module=HP_cp2

robert ethan
05-25-2011, 06:09 PM
Not exactly privledged insider information that Jason is spooning out there. It has been the case since the tail end of last season. Also, everyone is overlooking Brady Quinn. I'll bet half the G.M.s in the league consider Quinn to be just as worthwhile an acquisition as Kolb, and more so than Bulger or Hasselbeck. I'm betting, as I have all along, that the Broncos get offers for all three of their quarterbacks, and assess the merits of them all. Including Tebow. Also, I think they were close to drafting Blaine Gabbert this year. If not for the convoluted labor situation, I'm pretty sure they would have done that.

TXBRONC
05-25-2011, 07:08 PM
Interesting article



rest of article - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8200200c/article/brief-complicated-offseason-hinders-chances-of-orton-trade?module=HP_cp2

We'll see what happens. I still think a lot will depend on when a new CBA is struck and normal buisness operations resume. Where pretty sure La Canfora is all wet is when he says Denver knows they can win with Orton. If they were there would be no doubt that Orton is starter come opening day.

Ravage!!!
05-25-2011, 07:10 PM
We'll see what happens. I still think a lot will depend on when a new CBA is struck and normal buisness operations resume. Where pretty sure La Canfora is all wet is when he says Denver knows they can win with Orton. If they were there would be no doubt that Orton is starter come opening day.

I do to, but I truly expect Orton to be our starter. I dont' like it, I dont' want it, I'm embarrassed as a Bronco fan to see it... .but I expect that to be the case.

Ravage!!!
05-25-2011, 07:13 PM
Not exactly privledged insider information that Jason is spooning out there. It has been the case since the tail end of last season. Also, everyone is overlooking Brady Quinn. I'll bet half the G.M.s in the league consider Quinn to be just as worthwhile an acquisition as Kolb, and more so than Bulger or Hasselbeck. I'm betting, as I have all along, that the Broncos get offers for all three of their quarterbacks, and assess the merits of them all. Including Tebow. Also, I think they were close to drafting Blaine Gabbert this year. If not for the convoluted labor situation, I'm pretty sure they would have done that.

I will make this bet.

How do you suppose the Broncos came to acquire Brady Quinn? The Cleveland Browns were practically GIVING him away, and they didn't have takers. They would have ended up releasing him.

How has Brady Quinn has raised his value since then?

TXBRONC
05-25-2011, 07:18 PM
I do to, but I truly expect Orton to be our starter. I dont' like it, I dont' want it, I'm embarrassed as a Bronco fan to see it... .but I expect that to be the case.

He could very easily remain the starter however, it doesn't mean that Tebow couldn't conceivably overtake him before season's end. I don't buy for minute the idea that Orton in shorten camp gives us the best chance to win.

LTC Pain
05-25-2011, 07:32 PM
Not exactly privledged insider information that Jason is spooning out there. It has been the case since the tail end of last season. Also, everyone is overlooking Brady Quinn. I'll bet half the G.M.s in the league consider Quinn to be just as worthwhile an acquisition as Kolb, and more so than Bulger or Hasselbeck. I'm betting, as I have all along, that the Broncos get offers for all three of their quarterbacks, and assess the merits of them all. Including Tebow. Also, I think they were close to drafting Blaine Gabbert this year. If not for the convoluted labor situation, I'm pretty sure they would have done that.

Please provide links to the info indicating half the GMs think Quinn is a "more worthwhile acquisition" over Kolb or Bulger. I'be never heard/read where even one GM has indicated this. Also provide link to where the Broncos were cclose to drafting Gabbert. That's also a new one.

nevcraw
05-25-2011, 07:36 PM
will not be suprised if he is starting the season but tebow is going to take it from him at some point.. no doubt he is going to out learn, out hussle, out master, and out last Orton.

"it" always prevails.

TXBRONC
05-25-2011, 07:40 PM
will not be suprised if he is starting the season but tebow is going to take it from him at some point.. no doubt he is going to out learn, out hussle, out master, and out last Orton.

"it" always prevails.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tebow at the very least pushed Orton to the breaking point.

robert ethan
05-25-2011, 07:43 PM
Why wouldn't Quinn be considered a better prospect than Kolb? They came out of the same draft, Quinn is bigger, younger, was much more highly rated, and beat Kolb in every Combine test. Brady had a much superior college career and has had about the same success as a pro so far. PLAYING FOR A MUCH POORER TEAM. Quinn is still bigger, younger, faster, and stronger than Kolb four years later. Cleveland traded him for a player who was their most valuable single player last season plus a draft pick. I don't think the Browns felt that they "gave him away". Since then he has had a year working under the best quarterback coach in the game. Plus his salary is lower than Kolb's.

LawDog
05-25-2011, 07:50 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Tebow at the very least pushed Orton to the breaking point.

Well, at least from what the FO has been saying lately combined with the fact that he was a rookie, I'm guessing Tebow didn't really have a chance to push Orton last year. Or, to put it another way, Orton didn't feel pushed by Tebow last year. That absolutely changes this year - which is a win-win for Bronco Fan. Like it or not, Orton will be playing for his job and he'll either improve or fail. An improved Orton is good for the team. An Orton who is beaten out for the job by an improved Tebow is good for the team.

I honestly don't see B Quinn being a factor at all. Granted, there wasn't really anything to comment on, but last year any comment on the team from Elway (outside looking in) was absent even a mention of Quinn. Long before Tebow started a game, Elway routinely made positive comments about the kid. I think the only reason Elway mentions Quinn now in terms of the QB competition is merely because he currently occupies a spot on the payroll.

robert ethan
05-25-2011, 07:54 PM
Quinn was the highest rated draft prospect of the three by quite a wide margin. I think he just turned 26. His best years are ahead. Pretty sure he could be a starter on some teams in the league. He is NOT worse than Andy Dalton. Or John Skelton. Or David Whitehurst. Or a few others probably if I looked around.

BroncoStud
05-25-2011, 11:29 PM
Quinn was the highest rated draft prospect of the three by quite a wide margin. I think he just turned 26. His best years are ahead. Pretty sure he could be a starter on some teams in the league. He is NOT worse than Andy Dalton. Or John Skelton. Or David Whitehurst. Or a few others probably if I looked around.

Quinn looked like crap in 2010. He was nervous and simply terrible in preseason.

As far as Orton goes, if he starts opening day, how long does anyone think he is going to handle the pressure of Tim Tebow on the sidelines? As the boos grow louder and louder, as the 3rd downs come and go, as the losses mount... Does anyone REALLY believe Orton has enough character, physical ability, or mental toughness to overcome it and prosper as the starter?

The guy is a lame-duck QB walking. IF he starts he will be benched because he will fold under the pressure, it's what he does. So, maybe, Orton starting the season is a good thing. It will improve our draft position and it will once and for all prove that he is not a starting NFL QB and that he simply can't perform under pressure.

robert ethan
05-25-2011, 11:45 PM
Quinn's numbers in pre season were pretty much the same as Tebow's. As far as Orton is concerned, the guy was leading the NFL in passing well into the second half of the season. I like Tebow, but he certainly hasn't done anything so far in his career that Quinn and Orton haven't.

ORTON WON 9 MORE GAMES THAN TEBOW AS A ROOKIE.

BroncoStud
05-25-2011, 11:51 PM
Quinn's numbers in pre season were pretty much the same as Tebow's. As far as Orton is concerned, the guy was leading the NFL in passing well into the second half of the season. I like Tebow, but he certainly hasn't done anything so far in his career that Quinn and Orton haven't.

ORTON WON 9 MORE GAMES THAN TEBOW AS A ROOKIE.

He also played 11 more games than Tebow as a rookie... Did you actually WATCH the Bears that season? They won DESPITE Orton, not because of him. He had like a 59 rating... Are you REALLY trying to make that comparison? Lmao...

robert ethan
05-26-2011, 12:00 AM
He also played 11 more games than Tebow as a rookie... Did you actually WATCH the Bears that season? They won DESPITE Orton, not because of him. He had like a 59 rating... Are you REALLY trying to make that comparison? Lmao...

So after all the talk about "WINS", not "STATS", along comes Stud.....:rolleyes:

tubby
05-26-2011, 12:01 AM
will not be suprised if he is starting the season but tebow is going to take it from him at some point.. no doubt he is going to out learn, out hussle, out master, and out last Orton.

"it" always prevails.

Lets just hope Timothy Richard has "it"

:salute:

robert ethan
05-26-2011, 12:05 AM
I think everyone is missing the fundamental point about management's uneasiness with Tebow. HIS STRENGTHS ARE HIS WEAKNESSES.

The over the top "rah, rah", "step aside and let me do it", "I have a higher cause and will not show the weakness of others", etc. etc., is NOT a sustainable team identity.

That is why they will never sleep happy with Tebow running the ship, I do not believe.

BroncoStud
05-26-2011, 09:08 AM
I think everyone is missing the fundamental point about management's uneasiness with Tebow. HIS STRENGTHS ARE HIS WEAKNESSES.

The over the top "rah, rah", "step aside and let me do it", "I have a higher cause and will not show the weakness of others", etc. etc., is NOT a sustainable team identity.

That is why they will never sleep happy with Tebow running the ship, I do not believe.

RE, Tebow's deficiencies have nothing to do with his faith, it's his adaptation to NFL passing, reading defenses, and making quick and accurate throws, which he didn't do a lot of in college.

Physically he's got the arm, the legs, the head to do it, the concern is IF he can do it and WHEN. Last year was promising, with almost no practice reps and meaningful playing downs he came in and actually IMPROVED the Denver scoring offense. That is a good sign. It's also a good sign that he was so poised late in games. That's something we have missed.

TXBRONC
05-26-2011, 09:09 AM
Lets just hope Timothy Richard has "it"

:salute:

Who?

SpringsBroncoFan
05-26-2011, 12:03 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Tebow at the very least pushed Orton to the breaking point.

And when that happens, as Orton has shown with behavior, his trade value will be worth about a "bag of chips."

claymore
05-26-2011, 12:10 PM
Quinn is nothing more than an underwear model.

rcsodak
05-26-2011, 12:24 PM
Why wouldn't Quinn be considered a better prospect than Kolb? They came out of the same draft, Quinn is bigger, younger, was much more highly rated, and beat Kolb in every Combine test. Brady had a much superior college career and has had about the same success as a pro so far. PLAYING FOR A MUCH POORER TEAM. Quinn is still bigger, younger, faster, and stronger than Kolb four years later. Cleveland traded him for a player who was their most valuable single player last season plus a draft pick. I don't think the Browns felt that they "gave him away". Since then he has had a year working under the best quarterback coach in the game. Plus his salary is lower than Kolb's.
Who is this qb coach to whom you speak of?

GEM
05-26-2011, 12:32 PM
Quinn is nothing more than an underwear model.

He does have some nice "guns" :heh:

TXBRONC
05-26-2011, 12:36 PM
Quinn is nothing more than an underwear model.

It sounds like you're jealous. :heh:

Ravage!!!
05-26-2011, 12:53 PM
Why wouldn't Quinn be considered a better prospect than Kolb? They came out of the same draft, Quinn is bigger, younger, was much more highly rated, and beat Kolb in every Combine test. Brady had a much superior college career and has had about the same success as a pro so far. PLAYING FOR A MUCH POORER TEAM. Quinn is still bigger, younger, faster, and stronger than Kolb four years later. Cleveland traded him for a player who was their most valuable single player last season plus a draft pick. I don't think the Browns felt that they "gave him away". Since then he has had a year working under the best quarterback coach in the game. Plus his salary is lower than Kolb's.

The Browns were doing their BEST to give him away, but people weren't biting. Denver was the only team to make an offer. Our coaching staff was just too dumb to see what they were giving away.

As for the rest.. its easy. People have watched them play, and already know that Quinn isn't it. He's not a leader, not a good study, does NOT make good decisions, is not accurate on his throws, and is very immature.

Everything you listed, has nothing to do with why Kolb is considered a better prospect at this point.

topscribe
05-26-2011, 01:54 PM
He does have some nice "guns" :heh:

Quinn and Tebow would comprise probably the only QB combination that could
beat up the other team's DTs. :nod:

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T.K.O.
05-26-2011, 02:52 PM
nevermind that shit.....who's david whitehurst ?:laugh:
and can we trade quinn for him ?:confused: