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TXBRONC
05-24-2011, 02:11 PM
Q&A: Broncos' stable of running backs isn't etched in stone
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 05/24/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT

Q: Do John Elway, Brian Xanders and John Fox have confidence in the Broncos' running backs? I think the team needs a traditional fullback as well as a third-down back who can catch the ball.

A: The Broncos now see Knowshon Moreno as being more of a situational player for them. Moreno, a former Georgia star and first-round pick, has made more impact plays in the NFL as a receiver. His role in the Fox era likely will be more of a third-down player.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18123254

I didn't realize Denver brought in as many running backs as they did before the draft.

Denver Native (Carol)
05-24-2011, 03:10 PM
I realize this is Legwold's thoughts, but the only current Broncos' running back he mentioned was Moreno, and his statement that Moreno will likely be more of a third down player is speculation only on his part right now.

broncofaninfla
05-24-2011, 03:14 PM
To date Knowshon has been a Knowshow. In his defense it was in Mcds offense, everything about the run offense under mcd stunk. Hopefully the kid comes alive, stays healthy and shows why he was the first rb taken that year. Even with that being said Denver needs to improve it's talent at that position.

Northman
05-24-2011, 03:17 PM
Moreno should be a third down back anyway. He is not built to be a bruiser.

TXBRONC
05-24-2011, 03:42 PM
I realize this is Legwold's thoughts, but the only current Broncos' running back he mentioned was Moreno, and his statement that Moreno will likely be more of a third down player is speculation only on his part right now.

It could be however there also might some truth to it considering he's a beat writer for the DP.

underrated29
05-24-2011, 03:57 PM
i still dont buy it.

Elway said a breakout year.



And the guy has averaged over 1300 yards and 8.5 tds a year. Those are full time starting RB numbers. Even amongst the best, while playing for the worst.

LRtagger
05-24-2011, 04:00 PM
Moreno should be a third down back anyway. He is not built to be a bruiser.

You don't have to be a bruiser to be a full time back.

topscribe
05-24-2011, 04:06 PM
Well, if they see Moreno that way, then I expect them to go after DeAngelo with
a vengeance. And I wouldn't be surprised to see him here . . . from what I have
heard, DeAngelo has a high opinion of Fox . . .

-----

rcsodak
05-24-2011, 04:12 PM
Trade a wr to minn for toby.

elsid13
05-24-2011, 04:17 PM
1st round money for situational player, great.

SOCALORADO.
05-25-2011, 07:39 AM
Moreno was a huge bust pick, and the players DEN could have had instead only highlight this fact. Knowshow will never be a full time RB in the NFL.
DEN doesnt have a stable of RBs.
EFX had better be really active in FA.

CoachChaz
05-25-2011, 08:14 AM
I'll be intetested to see Moreno in a better run game. I think he's better than what we've seen from him so far.

And ask the Titans and Vikes if they think a "bruiser" is a requirement

Npba900
05-25-2011, 08:25 AM
Moreno should be a third down back anyway. He is not built to be a bruiser.

I always believed Moreno would have been most effective in a true zone blocking scheme where Moreno ran behind a fullback to take on the first tackler. Just like TD enjoyed and benefited from Griffen lead blocking for him the late 90's.

Moreno although not very big has just enough wiggle and speed to get to next level to use his talent under the guise of "One Read--One Cut--And Run Downhill". Moreno has ran out of an empty backfield without benefit of a blocking fullback and this has hurt his productivity.

Agent of Orange
05-25-2011, 08:27 AM
It sure would be nice to still have Hillis about now.

Juriga72
05-25-2011, 08:53 AM
It sure would be nice to still have Hillis about now.

Ok.... We could trade Kyle, Brady, Know, AND Ayers for Hillis back!!!!!!!
Completely undoing everything Mcdummy did in one fell swoop!!!!

And it would still be lopsided in our favor

BroncoJoe
05-25-2011, 09:31 AM
LOVE how people bring up the OL in defense of Orton, yet completely throw Moreno under the bus.

Talk about double standard.

Juriga72
05-25-2011, 09:46 AM
LOVE how people bring up the OL in defense of Orton, yet completely throw Moreno under the bus.

Talk about double standard.

His 14.8 att/game for a career just shows that he really is not what we need in our offense. I mean picking him at 12.... that was a stretch.

underrated29
05-25-2011, 10:12 AM
His 14.8 att/game for a career just shows that he really is not what we need in our offense. I mean picking him at 12.... that was a stretch.



And is that his fault he gets 14.8 a game?


He can no where near anything be called a bust. But even then, how easily does everyone forget.

Lets take the cheifs game for example. Knowshon was already at 100 yards before the first half was over. He was chewing the cheifs up. 2nd half- knowshon gets about 4 carries.

Real smart move there.



How many RBs that get 14 carries a game or less have better numbers on a WORSE team?

Lets not forget- we were a passing team, we were a team with a bad OL, we were a team that was so predictable us the fans could call out what we were going to do before we did it. We were a team that had the worst rush attack in the league, we were a team with the fewest i think, rush attempts in the league.

HammeredOut
05-25-2011, 10:16 AM
like I said before. Know=show is just a watered down and slower version of Matt Forte. A 3rd down back is all he ever was. Its funny it took this long for management to figure that one out.

I have 2 names. Vonte Leach, and DeAngelo Williams. Thank you for an instant run game.

TXBRONC
05-25-2011, 10:16 AM
His 14.8 att/game for a career just shows that he really is not what we need in our offense. I mean picking him at 12.... that was a stretch.

Moreno hasn't lived up to his billing as a number one pick but I think Joe makes a good point. If the offensive line was a problem for Orton then a lack of a running can't be all on Moreno and the other running backs. The running game did improve once Harris was healthy and back in the starting line. I think he will benefit greatly from being in a zone blocking scheme. But he doesn't need to take responsibility in becoming a better conditioned athlete.

HammeredOut
05-25-2011, 10:22 AM
And is that his fault he gets 14.8 a game?


He can no where near anything be called a bust. But even then, how easily does everyone forget.

Lets take the cheifs game for example. Knowshon was already at 100 yards before the first half was over. He was chewing the cheifs up. 2nd half- knowshon gets about 4 carries.

Real smart move there.



How many RBs that get 14 carries a game or less have better numbers on a WORSE team?

Lets not forget- we were a passing team, we were a team with a bad OL, we were a team that was so predictable us the fans could call out what we were going to do before we did it. We were a team that had the worst rush attack in the league, we were a team with the fewest i think, rush attempts in the league.

Know-show had games of 60,51,5,48,53,41,19,58,56,40 yards of production. That is pathetic for a first round running back. He is not a starting RB in this league. I think his 2 year try-out is over. With only 2 games in 2 years of over 100 yards in a game. The team is 1-1 in those games. Time to let Moreno be the third down change of pace back we all know he really is now. simple as that.

TXBRONC
05-25-2011, 10:30 AM
Know-show had games of 60,51,5,48,53,41,19,58,56,40 yards of production. That is pathetic for a first round running back. He is not a starting RB in this league. I think his 2 year try-out is over. With only 2 games in 2 years of over 100 yards in a game. The team is 1-1 in those games. Time to let Moreno be the third down change of pace back we all know he really is now. simple as that.

You are being inconsistent. You've used the excuse that offensive line was horrible for Orton but it's all on the running backs for the lack of a running game. In loss where Moreno had over a 100 yards how did your boy Orton do?

T.K.O.
05-25-2011, 10:35 AM
yeah ....all great players careers were determined in their first 2 years in a new system with a new coach etc....
let's give up on the guy !:confused:
if knowshon had been a 3rd or 4th round pick people would be clammering for him to get the rock more :rolleyes:
it does'nt matter where you are drafted it matters that you produce and knowshon has been pretty good considering circumstances & injuries.
give the kid a chance with a balanced team and we all might be surprised !!!!:salute:

BroncoJoe
05-25-2011, 10:42 AM
Moreno YDS/A = 4.3
Hillis YDS/A = 4.4

Hillis had nearly 100 more carries.

Juriga72
05-25-2011, 10:48 AM
You are being inconsistent. You've used the excuse that offensive line was horrible for Orton but it's all on the running backs for the lack of a running game. In loss where Moreno had over a 100 yards how did your boy Orton do?

Its also part and parcel for Orton being terrible. Defense put 8-9 guys within 7 yards of the LOS daring Kyle to beat them deep.

You cannot run into that, and Orton being Orton kept throwing into that.

JUST like Lonestar's "St Louis game shows Kyle's toughness"... When it gets down to it Kyle threw 83 passes this year with a lead.....LMAO

LAST year Know struggled when we did have a lead and ran the ball. THIS year, teams dared Kyle to beat them deep and he couldn't

Juriga72
05-25-2011, 10:50 AM
Moreno YDS/A = 4.3
Hillis YDS/A = 4.4

Hillis had nearly 100 more carries.

Moerno- 12th pick in NFL draft

Hillis- 227th pick in the NFL draft

BroncoJoe
05-25-2011, 10:50 AM
Moerno- 12th pick in NFL draft

Hillis- 227th pick in the NFL draft

Your point?

MileHighCrew
05-25-2011, 10:54 AM
at some point draft status no longer matters it is all about production. I don't care if he is 1st round or 5th round, I just want a TD. IMO Moreno has a lot to prove this year

SOCALORADO.
05-25-2011, 10:56 AM
Moerno- 12th pick in NFL draft

Hillis- 227th pick in the NFL draft

Moreno=Lawrence Moroney
Hillis=Juggernaut

HammeredOut
05-25-2011, 10:56 AM
Moreno YDS/A = 4.3
Hillis YDS/A = 4.4

Hillis had nearly 100 more carries.

in 21 starts Hillis has 6, 100+ games on the ground. In 29 starts for Moreno he only has 2, 100 yard plus games.

SOCALORADO.
05-25-2011, 10:59 AM
in 21 starts Hillis has 6, 100+ games on the ground. In 29 starts for Moreno he only has 2, 100 yard plus games.

Hillis will also play injured, and when he actually gets seriously injured, he isnt out long.
Moreno just tore his hammy getting off the couch as i typed this.
Dude is made of glass.

Lonestar
05-25-2011, 11:00 AM
LOVE how people bring up the OL in defense of Orton, yet completely throw Moreno under the bus.

Talk about double standard.
Not sure who you are talking about. But count me out of that group.

The OL sucked last year untill very late in the season.
Having clady, kuper, Harris all coming off of offseason surgery and then starting two rookies hard to have any continuity at all.
not to mention Moreno being injured early in the season.
Finally near the end of the season the "perfect storm" so to speak happened Haris was finally back freeing up beadles to go back to olg and finally kuPer and clady were almost back to their former self.
Moreno had several strong runs where he actually hit to the second level and ran over a LB or two.
Now not a total redemption for a por season but a sign of things to come. IMHO
Would i like ro have a a big back to get that last tough yard. Absolutely. I'm and have been for years believed that RB should be at least. 225 if they are going to get lots of carries.

I frankly do not care all the much about 40 speed while nice to have rarely do RB get that chance to take it to the house more than 20 yards out.

TXBRONC
05-25-2011, 11:03 AM
Know-show had games of 60,51,5,48,53,41,19,58,56,40 yards of production. That is pathetic for a first round running back. He is not a starting RB in this league. I think his 2 year try-out is over. With only 2 games in 2 years of over 100 yards in a game. The team is 1-1 in those games. Time to let Moreno be the third down change of pace back we all know he really is now. simple as that.


Did you even consider the number of carries?

SOCALORADO.
05-25-2011, 11:07 AM
Not sure who you are talking about. But count me out of that group.

The OL sucked last year untill very late in the season.
Having clady, kuper, Harris all coming off of offseason surgery and then starting two rookies hard to have any continuity at all.
not to mention Moreno being injured early in the season.
Finally near the end of the season the "perfect storm" so to speak happened Haris was finally back freeing up beadles to go back to olg and finally kuPer and clady were almost back to their former self.
Moreno had several strong runs where he actually hit to the second level and ran over a LB or two.
Now not a total redemption for a por season but a sign of things to come. IMHO
Would i like ro have a a big back to get that last tough yard. Absolutely. I'm and have been for years believed that RB should be at least. 225 if they are going to get lots of carries.

I frankly do not care all the much about 40 speed while nice to have rarely do RB get that chance to take it to the house more than 20 yards out.

You crazy.
Speed kills in the NFL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pzjv7P4Q2U

HammeredOut
05-25-2011, 11:07 AM
Did you even consider the number of carries?

considering he was sorta used as a situational back, and not featured, so teams never had to gear up for him just running the ball, but affraid of the passing threat. sure. Nobody in the league was worried about Moreno eating up the clock, and taking over games running the ball. Not even the coaches, fans, because nobody had faith in him.

I'd say he was steal if we took him in the 5th round, but he is suppose to be first round money.

Restructure the contract, and give the cash to DeAngelo Williams, i'd be happy.

Ravage!!!
05-25-2011, 11:11 AM
And the guy has averaged over 1300 yards and 8.5 tds a year. Those are full time starting RB numbers. Even amongst the best, while playing for the worst.

Wait..... what? :confused:

TXBRONC
05-25-2011, 11:18 AM
considering he was sorta used as a situational back, and not featured, so teams never had to gear up for him just running the ball, but affraid of the passing threat. sure. Nobody in the league was worried about Moreno eating up the clock, and taking over games running the ball. Not even the coaches, fans, because nobody had faith in him.

I'd say he was steal if we took him in the 5th round, but he is suppose to be first round money.

Restructure the contract, and give the cash to DeAngelo Williams, i'd be happy.

When got the carries he got the yards. There is a correspondence the lack carries falls on McDaniels shoulders.

underrated29
05-25-2011, 11:19 AM
Wait..... what? :confused:



Knowshon moreno averaged over 1300+ yards and 8.5 tds a year. All the while playing on the worst rush attack in the Entire League.

Ravage!!!
05-25-2011, 11:20 AM
Lets take the cheifs game for example. Knowshon was already at 100 yards before the first half was over. He was chewing the cheifs up. 2nd half- knowshon gets about 4 carries.

Real smart move there.



yeah.. but don't you remember Quinten Griffen having this HUGE game against the Chiefs at the end of the year, and these boards just ROARING with hope that this kid was something special, all based on ONE game?

So far, thats what we have with Moreno. Nothing more than just one, maybe two, moments. Hard to believe you have much, that being the case.

Now I've been really hard on Knowshon so far because I haven't seen ANYTHING from him...except the last few games of the season. So I'm holding off. I REALLY like his enthusiasm and no-quit spirit. Hopefully we combine that with Tebow, and it spreads throughout the huddle that we are never out of the game.

But Knowshon is slow. He's never going to be a home-run hitter, and that hurts you in the NFL.

Ravage!!!
05-25-2011, 11:20 AM
Knowshon moreno averaged over 1300+ yards and 8.5 tds a year. All the while playing on the worst rush attack in the Entire League.

are you talking about in college?

Lonestar
05-25-2011, 11:23 AM
Moreno should be a third down back anyway. He is not built to be a bruiser.

Something we can agree on.
Any RB under 215 or for that matter 225 is not big enough in today's NFL to take the abuse with loads of runs. Or if they are they are running behind massive OL and probably have a good passing game. Or they will have a short career.

Being a third down back not so sure.

rcsodak
05-25-2011, 11:28 AM
LOVE how people bring up the OL in defense of Orton, yet completely throw Moreno under the bus.

Talk about double standard.
As is ortons detractors, knomo's don't look for any reasons....just results. Go figger.
;)

TXBRONC
05-25-2011, 11:28 AM
Something we can agree on.
Any RB under 215 or for that matter 225 is not big enough in today's NFL to take the abuse with loads of runs. Or if they are they are running behind massive OL and probably have a good passing game. Or they will have a short career.

Being a third down back not so sure.

Did you know six out of the top ten in rushers this past season weighed under 220 lbs?

underrated29
05-25-2011, 11:34 AM
Know-show had games of 60,51,5,48,53,41,19,58,56,40 yards of production. That is pathetic for a first round running back. He is not a starting RB in this league. I think his 2 year try-out is over. With only 2 games in 2 years of over 100 yards in a game. The team is 1-1 in those games. Time to let Moreno be the third down change of pace back we all know he really is now. simple as that.


Wrong.


But first before I show you how you were wrong. Why dont you show us which games those were.

ah screw it- I will show you:

1.-jax- 64 yards 1 td
2- sea- 118 yards 1 td
3- ind- did not play
4- ten- did not play
5- balt- did not play
6- jets- 48 yards
7- oak- 90 yards 2 tds
8- 9ers- 59 yards
9- bye week
10- kc- 156 yards 1 td
11- bolts-120 yards 1 td
12- stl- 118 yards 1 td
13- kc- 175 yards
14- ari- 113 yards 1 td
15- oak- 6 yards (he also only played 5 snaps)
16- hou- 41 yards (also only played 8 snaps)
17- bolts- 43 yards (also only played 7 snaps)





So once again hammerhead- you are wrong. I did not make those numbers up. And those yards did not magically appear on knowshons stats sheet. He is not a wizard and there is no unicorn helping him get these numbers.

Knowshon DID actually put up these numbers. Weather you would like to believe it or not. He did it. No one else did. Just he. It is a fact that can not be argued, disputed or anything else. He gave the broncos those numbers and he did it exactly that way in all of those games from last year. I listed every game.


Once again, the fans are brainwashed.

rcsodak
05-25-2011, 11:34 AM
Your point?
Exactly. After the 1st year, everybody is just a player/teammate. Draft status should only be pertinent in 1st contract.

Ravage!!!
05-25-2011, 11:35 AM
Did you know six out of the top ten in rushers this past season weighed under 220 lbs?

:lol: :lol:

underrated29
05-25-2011, 11:41 AM
But Knowshon is slow. He's never going to be a home-run hitter, and that hurts you in the NFL.




You are right about that. But I dont see him being that kind of back, obvioustly. I think he is just a guy that will chew up 5+ yards at a time. break off a couple 20 yarders or so and keep the chains moving.



are you talking about in college?


Nope- in his two season in the nfl knowshon has 2300+ yards and 17 tds..You can go to nfl.com to see for yourself.

rcsodak
05-25-2011, 11:45 AM
You are right about that. But I dont see him being that kind of back, obvioustly. I think he is just a guy that will chew up 5+ yards at a time. break off a couple 20 yarders or so and keep the chains moving.





Nope- in his two season in the nfl knowshon has 2300+ yards and 17 tds..You can go to nfl.com to see for yourself.

:grin: you're bad.

HammeredOut
05-25-2011, 01:04 PM
You are right about that. But I dont see him being that kind of back, obvioustly. I think he is just a guy that will chew up 5+ yards at a time. break off a couple 20 yarders or so and keep the chains moving.





Nope- in his two season in the nfl knowshon has 2300+ yards and 17 tds..You can go to nfl.com to see for yourself.



Just look at his Seattle Game. 24 attempts and 51 yards.

1st and 10 at DEN 4 K.Moreno right end to DEN 3 for -1 yards (B.Mebane).
K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 35 for 1 yard (C.Cole).
K.Moreno right tackle to SEA 1 for no gain (C.Cole).
1st and 10 at DEN 17 K.Moreno right guard to DEN 17 for no gain (L.Tatupu).
1st and 10 at SEA 34 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 27 for 7 yards (L.Milloy). FUMBLES (L.Milloy), ball out of bounds at SEA 27.
2nd and 3 at SEA 3 K.Moreno right tackle to SEA 2 for 1 yard (E.Thomas, A.Curry).
1st and 10 at DEN 5 K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 8 for 3 yards (C.Clemons).
2nd and 6 at DEN 24 K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 23 for -1 yards (K.Balmer).
1st and 1 at SEA 1 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 1 for no gain (B.Mebane).
2nd and 1 at SEA 1 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 1 for no gain (K.Balmer).
2nd and 13 at DEN 17 K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 20 for 3 yards (R.Bryant).
1st and 10 at DEN 34 K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 34 for no gain (L.Milloy).
2nd and 5 at SEA 35 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 33 for 2 yards (C.Cole).
1st and 10 at SEA 43 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 49 for -6 yards (B.Mebane).
1st and 10 at DEN 19 K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 20 for 1 yard (A.Curry).


If you see a trend as to why we have to convert 3rd and longs. Its not because of Orton. Know Show is just that on the stat sheet, a No-Show.

Averaged 59 yards a game, and only 2, 100 plus games in 29 starts, is second teir.

HammeredOut
05-25-2011, 01:50 PM
Just look at his Seattle Game. 24 attempts and 51 yards.

1st and 10 at DEN 4 K.Moreno right end to DEN 3 for -1 yards (B.Mebane).
K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 35 for 1 yard (C.Cole).
K.Moreno right tackle to SEA 1 for no gain (C.Cole).
1st and 10 at DEN 17 K.Moreno right guard to DEN 17 for no gain (L.Tatupu).
1st and 10 at SEA 34 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 27 for 7 yards (L.Milloy). FUMBLES (L.Milloy), ball out of bounds at SEA 27.
2nd and 3 at SEA 3 K.Moreno right tackle to SEA 2 for 1 yard (E.Thomas, A.Curry).
1st and 10 at DEN 5 K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 8 for 3 yards (C.Clemons).
2nd and 6 at DEN 24 K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 23 for -1 yards (K.Balmer).
1st and 1 at SEA 1 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 1 for no gain (B.Mebane).
2nd and 1 at SEA 1 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 1 for no gain (K.Balmer).
2nd and 13 at DEN 17 K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 20 for 3 yards (R.Bryant).
1st and 10 at DEN 34 K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 34 for no gain (L.Milloy).
2nd and 5 at SEA 35 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 33 for 2 yards (C.Cole).
1st and 10 at SEA 43 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 49 for -6 yards (B.Mebane).
1st and 10 at DEN 19 K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 20 for 1 yard (A.Curry).


If you see a trend as to why we have to convert 3rd and longs. Its not because of Orton. Know Show is just that on the stat sheet, a No-Show.

Averaged 59 yards a game, and only 2, 100 plus games in 29 starts, is second teir.

The stats above is 15 attempts, and 10 yards total, all in the same game. Against a team who has no experience trying to stop our run game nor in our conference.

Know-show stats show that his production was the same from start to finish of the game. Then his phantom injury pops up. I think it was hurt ego myself.

LTC Pain
05-25-2011, 01:51 PM
Trade a wr to minn for toby.


Trade Orton for Toby G!

underrated29
05-25-2011, 01:55 PM
Just look at his Seattle Game. 24 attempts and 51 yards.

1st and 10 at DEN 4 K.Moreno right end to DEN 3 for -1 yards (B.Mebane).
K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 35 for 1 yard (C.Cole).
K.Moreno right tackle to SEA 1 for no gain (C.Cole).
1st and 10 at DEN 17 K.Moreno right guard to DEN 17 for no gain (L.Tatupu).
1st and 10 at SEA 34 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 27 for 7 yards (L.Milloy). FUMBLES (L.Milloy), ball out of bounds at SEA 27.
2nd and 3 at SEA 3 K.Moreno right tackle to SEA 2 for 1 yard (E.Thomas, A.Curry).
1st and 10 at DEN 5 K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 8 for 3 yards (C.Clemons).
2nd and 6 at DEN 24 K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 23 for -1 yards (K.Balmer).
1st and 1 at SEA 1 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 1 for no gain (B.Mebane).
2nd and 1 at SEA 1 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 1 for no gain (K.Balmer).
2nd and 13 at DEN 17 K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 20 for 3 yards (R.Bryant).
1st and 10 at DEN 34 K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 34 for no gain (L.Milloy).
2nd and 5 at SEA 35 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 33 for 2 yards (C.Cole).
1st and 10 at SEA 43 K.Moreno left tackle to SEA 49 for -6 yards (B.Mebane).
1st and 10 at DEN 19 K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 20 for 1 yard (A.Curry).


If you see a trend as to why we have to convert 3rd and longs. Its not because of Orton. Know Show is just that on the stat sheet, a No-Show.

Averaged 59 yards a game, and only 2, 100 plus games in 29 starts, is second teir.




LOL- once again- you are doing your best to keep his stats off the sheet.

What happened to these stats in the seattle game:?
4rec 67yards 0td 45long


OOOPS! Someone pointed out something you did not want them to see. Where did these stats come from? Once again, they are not magic stats. Terrell Davis did not put on a 27 jersey and get those yards. Neither did Rod Smith. How is it possible those yards got there!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


Seriously guy, you are worse then Oakland Raider- that kid may be dumb but at least he checks his facts before he post them.



Once again- Knowshon Moreno (2009 and 2010 NFL numbers combined):
2311 yards and 17tds

in 2010- he had SIX games of over 100 yards: Seattle, KC, bolts, stl, kc again, arizona

in 2009- he had 3 games over 100 yards: New england, Washington, and Giants.



It should be noted on at least 7 other games he had 90 or more yards.



So please once again tell me how a back who has only played in 29 games, 22 as a starter, and only 26 with more than 8 carries as a starter and puts up 2300 yards and 17tds is a bust or a no show?




...............And I'm spent.:burnout:

Ravage!!!
05-25-2011, 02:17 PM
Nope- in his two season in the nfl knowshon has 2300+ yards and 17 tds..You can go to nfl.com to see for yourself.

Ahh..counting his receiving yards. Yes, counting his rushing and receiving yards, he almost equals a good rushing RB's single season rushing (only) total.

HammeredOut
05-25-2011, 02:24 PM
LOL- once again- you are doing your best to keep his stats off the sheet.

What happened to these stats in the seattle game:?
4rec 67yards 0td 45long


OOOPS! Someone pointed out something you did not want them to see. Where did these stats come from? Once again, they are not magic stats. Terrell Davis did not put on a 27 jersey and get those yards. Neither did Rod Smith. How is it possible those yards got there!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


Seriously guy, you are worse then Oakland Raider- that kid may be dumb but at least he checks his facts before he post them.



Once again- Knowshon Moreno (2009 and 2010 NFL numbers combined):
2311 yards and 17tds

in 2010- he had SIX games of over 100 yards: Seattle, KC, bolts, stl, kc again, arizona

in 2009- he had 3 games over 100 yards: New england, Washington, and Giants.



It should be noted on at least 7 other games he had 90 or more yards.



So please once again tell me how a back who has only played in 29 games, 22 as a starter, and only 26 with more than 8 carries as a starter and puts up 2300 yards and 17tds is a bust or a no show?




...............And I'm spent.:burnout:



You must be talking about Total Yards.

Because Rushing the ball over 2 years, No-Show Moreno only has 2 games of 100 plus yards on the ground. Who cares about receiving the ball, thats what TE's and WRs are there for.

2300 yards on the ground with 17 TD's?? Smoke another one. No show Moreno has never had over a 100o Yards on the ground in a season.

Who cares about RBs that recieve the ball, just look at Reggie Bush stats. A RB who is a reciever.

HammeredOut
05-25-2011, 02:32 PM
According to some logic, because No-Show had just about the same amount of recieving yards as Chris Johnson, that he must be just as good as Chris Johnson. Right??

rcsodak
05-25-2011, 02:38 PM
Trade Orton for Toby G!
And a pick

underrated29
05-25-2011, 03:24 PM
so his yards dont count then? Because he caught a ball? That makes sense.


I can play that game too.


I guess Tim Tebows rushing yards and tds do not count then. I guess LT and sproles dont count. Mike wallace and devin hester do not count because they rushed the ball instead of caught it.


What a dumb argument.


The guy ran for those yards AND caught for those yards. Guess what, MOST of those passes were not passes down field. They were screens or behind the line of scrimmage passes.





What I really find interesting about all of this is Knowshon AVERAGED 10 Yards per catch. Why is that? Is it maybe because when he catches the ball he is not immediately hit in the backfield...Just a thought;)

Ravage!!!
05-25-2011, 03:32 PM
29, come on. No one said they "didn't count'.. but most people don't talk about a RB having "100 yrd game" by counting both rushing and receiving. It almost comes across as deceiving the way you are presenting your facts. If you are going to use the rushing and receiving numbers, then state the "all purpose" with them so readers don't see your numbers as being fudged.

As I said, I'm willing to give the guy a chance, but as of right now, he hasn't looked good,a nd certainly has NOT looked like a 1st round RB should...... especially one that got such HIGH praise around this place when the draft was rolling around. He's been HIGHLY disappointing, thus far.

But when you tell me that you believe that he's going to be the kind of back that is going to average over 5 yrds a carry, then I see that your just a LOT higher on his abilities than most, and that just takes away from the stats you've been trying to use. Seems you are doing what you can to BOOST his numbers to justify your stance.

Rushing yards and "all purpose" yards have always been kept separately. No one says the guy had a "hundred yard game" when talking about a RB unless they state.. he had 100 ALL PURPOSE yards.

That would be like talking about hte QB and saying " yeah, the guy had 4 300 yrd games in a row"... and finding out that he didn't have 300 yrds passing in a row, but a mixture of rushing and throwing. Its deceiving, and its not what people use as the staple stat when talking about their respective positions.

rcsodak
05-25-2011, 03:55 PM
Cowboys took OU's rb early in the draft even thought they've got a 3headed monster. Why?
He had 157 career catches. The most of any rb in the draft.

LTC Pain
05-25-2011, 04:00 PM
And a pick

Doubt that will happen!

underrated29
05-25-2011, 04:00 PM
Im not trying to boost or inflate his stats. I am not doing it to further my side.


I list it because he did do those things. When someone says he is a bust, or sucks or has not done squat and claims he is a waste I bring up stats.
Knowshon did put up those stats. And I would still like to know from those who think Moreno sucks or is a bust or whaveter, what numbers a 2nd year back SHOULD have?



The fact of the matter is Knowshon played on a team with the fewest rushing attempts in the nfl (or close to it-didnt look it up). He played on a team with a pathetic OL starting two rookies. He played on a Passing team. A passing team. These things get overlooked by anyone who says he is pathetic. So I list his numbers. No one hates on Lesean Mccoy- his main contribution is in the passing game. Lets face it, lots of teams run screens to their RB...Yet, knowshon seems to be the only who they do not qualify for. Sorry that he has not put up Adrian Peterson numbers rushing.

But when we look at his passing numbers it is a 180 difference. Maybe he just excells at it. Maybe its because we played on a passing team and therefore when he is played into the scheme he does better there, or maybe its because he is not hit in the backfield on his passes...Who knows. It all boils down to the same thing though. If he was such a bust or knowshow then why hasnt every RB to ever play the game put up numbers So Astoundingly better in their first two seasons. Especially when they played on teams that were not dead last in rushing and rushing attempts?

underrated29
05-25-2011, 04:06 PM
Here is a post from another poster at another board.

Moreno-

429 rushing attempts, 12 rushing TD's, a TD every 35 attempts.

65 receptions, 5 reception TD's, a TD every 13 receptions.

or

I'm surprised so many people have a problem with Moreno. He's a solid all-around tailback that will produce TD's.

Moreno has 429 rushing attempts, and 12 rushing TD's. That's pretty good.

Moreno has 65 pass receptions, and 5 reception TD's. That's pretty good.

I don't see a problem with the guy.

Jamaal Charles has 487 rushing attempts, and 12 rushing TD's.

Jamaal Charles has 112 pass receptions, and 5 reception TD's.

Charles has 3981 yards from scrimmage in three years, Moreno 2311 yards from scrimmage in two years.

Moreno has the same number of TD's as Jamaal Charles, but with one less year in the NFL.

Northman
05-25-2011, 04:26 PM
You don't have to be a bruiser to be a full time back.

You do if you want to stay healthy.

Northman
05-25-2011, 04:31 PM
Moreno YDS/A = 4.3
Hillis YDS/A = 4.4

Hillis had nearly 100 more carries.

And 10 times more impressive.

Northman
05-25-2011, 04:35 PM
Knowshon moreno averaged over 1300+ yards and 8.5 tds a year. All the while playing on the worst rush attack in the Entire League.

Where are you getting that 1300 yd average from? In 09' he had 947 and 2010 he had 779 yds rushing. Thats not a 1300 yd average mate.

Northman
05-25-2011, 04:40 PM
29, come on. No one said they "didn't count'.. but most people don't talk about a RB having "100 yrd game" by counting both rushing and receiving. It almost comes across as deceiving the way you are presenting your facts. If you are going to use the rushing and receiving numbers, then state the "all purpose" with them so readers don't see your numbers as being fudged.

As I said, I'm willing to give the guy a chance, but as of right now, he hasn't looked good,a nd certainly has NOT looked like a 1st round RB should...... especially one that got such HIGH praise around this place when the draft was rolling around. He's been HIGHLY disappointing, thus far.

But when you tell me that you believe that he's going to be the kind of back that is going to average over 5 yrds a carry, then I see that your just a LOT higher on his abilities than most, and that just takes away from the stats you've been trying to use. Seems you are doing what you can to BOOST his numbers to justify your stance.

Rushing yards and "all purpose" yards have always been kept separately. No one says the guy had a "hundred yard game" when talking about a RB unless they state.. he had 100 ALL PURPOSE yards.

That would be like talking about hte QB and saying " yeah, the guy had 4 300 yrd games in a row"... and finding out that he didn't have 300 yrds passing in a row, but a mixture of rushing and throwing. Its deceiving, and its not what people use as the staple stat when talking about their respective positions.

Indeed. And when you make an effort to mention Sproles in your arguement i just have to laugh my ass off. Sproles was as third down back and much more of a PLAYMAKER than Knowshon when it comes to receiving the ball.

underrated29
05-25-2011, 04:54 PM
Where are you getting that 1300 yd average from? In 09' he had 947 and 2010 he had 779 yds rushing. Thats not a 1300 yd average mate.

Look at his total yards brother.

Northman
05-25-2011, 04:59 PM
Look at his total yards brother.

Yea, i caught that later in the thread. Im more interested on what he does on the ground at this point. Either way, he isnt a playmaker whether its running or receiving at this point.

LRtagger
05-25-2011, 05:23 PM
You do if you want to stay healthy.

You couldnt be more wrong.

Bruisers are more prone to injury because of their running style.

Who would you consider the best backs of all time? Emmitt, Barry, Tomlinson = not bruisers and no injury history. How about the best backs currently in the league...Foster, Charles, CJ, Peterson, are not bruisers - I guess AD is debatable.

Meanwhile guys like MJD, Michael Turner, Mendenhall, Ray Rice, Hillis all bruisers and all have missed significant time from injury.

Northman
05-25-2011, 05:36 PM
You couldnt be more wrong.

Bruisers are more prone to injury because of their running style.

Who would you consider the best backs of all time? Emmitt, Barry, Tomlinson = not bruisers and no injury history. How about the best backs currently in the league...Foster, Charles, CJ, Peterson, are not bruisers - I guess AD is debatable.

Meanwhile guys like MJD, Michael Turner, Mendenhall, Ray Rice, Hillis all bruisers and all have missed significant time from injury.

You pretty much missed my point when i stated bruiser. The bottom line is all of those guys could take a beating and keep on playing. Even for guys like Hillis and company are difference makers when healthy. Knowshon is not so being a #12 pick he has not lived up to the hype.

WARHORSE
05-25-2011, 05:38 PM
Running out of McDs offense takes a big punishing back imo.

Running out of the shotgun is the easiest run to read, and it gives the advantage to the defense when it comes to the run game. The only reason to RUN out of the shotgun in McDs offense is to supposedly 'keep the defense honest', in honoring the run.

Baloney.

Its pretty pitiful.


Traditional running game is going to be needed if youre going to be a running team in this league.

There wont be any 1300 yard rushers in McDs offense.


I doubt even Steven Jackson will do so this year in that offense, but if he does, it will be at a terrible cost to him physically, cause every yard he gets will be a yard earned imo.


Knowshon should do better imo in the ZBS.


If he doesnt.............sigh.

LRtagger
05-25-2011, 06:16 PM
You pretty much missed my point when i stated bruiser. The bottom line is all of those guys could take a beating and keep on playing. Even for guys like Hillis and company are difference makers when healthy. Knowshon is not so being a #12 pick he has not lived up to the hype.

How would you describe a bruiser? Do you consider Chris Johnson and Jamal Charles bruisers? Moreno is more of a bruiser than either of those guys.

Moreno hasn't really been healthy his entire career, so not sure how you could write him off as a scrub when healthy. The most disappointing thing about Moreno so far is his inability to stay 100% healthy.

I would say the healthiest he has been in his career was coming off the bye last year until week 14 and he was pretty damn good in those games.

89 carries for 462 yards - 5.2ypc 3TDs

TXBRONC
05-25-2011, 06:18 PM
How would you describe a bruiser? Do you consider Chris Johnson and Jamal Charles bruisers? Moreno is more of a bruiser than either of those guys.

Moreno hasn't really been healthy his entire career, so not sure how you could write him off as a scrub when healthy. The most disappointing thing about Moreno so far is his inability to stay 100% healthy.

I would say the healthiest he has been in his career was coming off the bye last year until week 14 and he was pretty damn good in those games.

89 carries for 462 yards - 5.2ypc 3TDs

I think he means durability. If that's case then Moreno hasn't been durable.

LRtagger
05-25-2011, 06:21 PM
I think he means durability. If that's case then Moreno hasn't been durable.

True - like i said that has been the most disappointing thing about him - but that doesn't have anything to do with being a bruiser.

Ravage!!!
05-25-2011, 06:32 PM
I think his lack of explosiveness has been the most disappointing thing about Moreno so far. I expected him to be this dynamic RB that would EXPLODE. I don't see that at all from him right now. He's slow. If he's going to be slow, he NEEDS to be a buriser.. but he's not. He's not fast enough to be a scat (heh, interesting how I can turn that word to mean how' he's played up to this point).

But as of right now, he's played more like a 3rd down back. SOmeone that will get you a few yards, but more dangerous as a receiver out of the backfield. He's certainly not going to run by you, and isn't going to run over you, so throwing him the ball in the open field is about the only way the guy is going to gain positive yards on a consistent basis.

LRtagger
05-25-2011, 06:37 PM
I think his lack of explosiveness has been the most disappointing thing about Moreno so far. I expected him to be this dynamic RB that would EXPLODE. I don't see that at all from him right now. He's slow. If he's going to be slow, he NEEDS to be a buriser.. but he's not. He's not fast enough to be a scat (heh, interesting how I can turn that word to mean how' he's played up to this point).

But as of right now, he's played more like a 3rd down back. SOmeone that will get you a few yards, but more dangerous as a receiver out of the backfield. He's certainly not going to run by you, and isn't going to run over you, so throwing him the ball in the open field is about the only way the guy is going to gain positive yards on a consistent basis.

I think that was more a result of our offense and our Olineman's lack of ability to make downfield blocks. I don't remember seeing many plays where Moreno got blocks downfield and I don't think it's any secret that we had the most poorly designed running game in the league. I'm hopeful that Moreno will be successful in the new offense....plus he has had hamstring issues since he was drafted.

I certainly am not ready to write him off as a bust like many have.

elsid13
05-25-2011, 07:47 PM
I think that was more a result of our offense and our Olineman's lack of ability to make downfield blocks. I don't remember seeing many plays where Moreno got blocks downfield and I don't think it's any secret that we had the most poorly designed running game in the league. I'm hopeful that Moreno will be successful in the new offense....plus he has had hamstring issues since he was drafted.

I certainly am not ready to write him off as a bust like many have.

It is not a result of the offense. Moreno is the same back that he was at UGA, a guy that was very good at following his blocks and has decent/good balance in the opening field. He doesn't run with a lot of power, have a burst or really good feet in the hole.

HammeredOut
05-25-2011, 07:49 PM
29, come on. No one said they "didn't count'.. but most people don't talk about a RB having "100 yrd game" by counting both rushing and receiving. It almost comes across as deceiving the way you are presenting your facts. If you are going to use the rushing and receiving numbers, then state the "all purpose" with them so readers don't see your numbers as being fudged.

As I said, I'm willing to give the guy a chance, but as of right now, he hasn't looked good,a nd certainly has NOT looked like a 1st round RB should...... especially one that got such HIGH praise around this place when the draft was rolling around. He's been HIGHLY disappointing, thus far.

But when you tell me that you believe that he's going to be the kind of back that is going to average over 5 yrds a carry, then I see that your just a LOT higher on his abilities than most, and that just takes away from the stats you've been trying to use. Seems you are doing what you can to BOOST his numbers to justify your stance.

Rushing yards and "all purpose" yards have always been kept separately. No one says the guy had a "hundred yard game" when talking about a RB unless they state.. he had 100 ALL PURPOSE yards.

That would be like talking about hte QB and saying " yeah, the guy had 4 300 yrd games in a row"... and finding out that he didn't have 300 yrds passing in a row, but a mixture of rushing and throwing. Its deceiving, and its not what people use as the staple stat when talking about their respective positions.


Another way of describing it, is simply a 3rd down change of pace back. The all purpose guy.

29 doesn't understand what 100 rushing yards on the ground is. Or 1000 yards total for a season, which average for a starting RB.

29 needs to figure out what stats mean or how to read them.

Juriga72
05-25-2011, 08:28 PM
Your point?

Even McDaniel's wife knew who was best........LOL

Northman
05-25-2011, 09:37 PM
I think his lack of explosiveness has been the most disappointing thing about Moreno so far. I expected him to be this dynamic RB that would EXPLODE. I don't see that at all from him right now. He's slow. If he's going to be slow, he NEEDS to be a buriser.. but he's not. He's not fast enough to be a scat (heh, interesting how I can turn that word to mean how' he's played up to this point).

But as of right now, he's played more like a 3rd down back. SOmeone that will get you a few yards, but more dangerous as a receiver out of the backfield. He's certainly not going to run by you, and isn't going to run over you, so throwing him the ball in the open field is about the only way the guy is going to gain positive yards on a consistent basis.

His lack of explosiveness and his very poor vision. Nothing he has done has warranted him as a #12 pick.

bcbronc
05-26-2011, 12:06 AM
And I would still like to know from those who think Moreno sucks or is a bust or whaveter, what numbers a 2nd year back SHOULD have?


Just for fun, I looked at a few current backs to see how they did for yards-from-scrimmage and TDs in their first two seasons. This doesn't adjust for games missed, or being a second stringer, or offensive system, quality of line, or wins and losses. Nothing but total yards from scrimmage at end of their second year:

Moreno 2311yds 17tds

Darren McFadden 1386yds 5tds

Reggie Bush 2305yds 14tds

Jamaal Charles 2046yds* 9tds (*at least one 1000 yard rushing season)

Matt Forte 3115yds*i 16tds (i at least one 300 carry season)

Frank Gore 2919yds*i 12tds

Maurice Jones-Drew 2552yds 24tds

LeSean McCoy 2617yds* 13tds

Ray Rice 2768yds* 8tds

Brian Westbrook 1214yds 11tds

so end of the day, a lot of these guys put up more yards, but only Forte and Gore put up a lot more. and most of these guys have had a 250+ rush season. But the interesting thing is TDs...only MJD in this group got in the endzone more in their first two seasons.

Granted I left off guys like CJ, AP and LT because ya, they blow all these chumps out of the water. But I'm pretty sure that everyone acknowledges that Moreno isn't as good as AP or CJ so it's moot.

When you consider Moreno being unable to stay healthy, the state of the OL, always being behind, and an offensive system that doesn't pad RB's stats, Moreno compares pretty favourable to these backs. Way too early to be calling him a bust.

We do need to get some viable 2nd and 3rd options (or 1a even) before the season starts though, as no back can carry the load single-handedly in today's game.

FanInAZ
05-26-2011, 01:05 AM
Just for fun, I looked at a few current backs to see how they did for yards-from-scrimmage and TDs in their first two seasons. This doesn't adjust for games missed, or being a second stringer, or offensive system, quality of line, or wins and losses. Nothing but total yards from scrimmage at end of their second year:

Moreno 2311yds 17tds

Darren McFadden 1386yds 5tds

Reggie Bush 2305yds 14tds

Jamaal Charles 2046yds* 9tds (*at least one 1000 yard rushing season)

Matt Forte 3115yds*i 16tds (i at least one 300 carry season)

Frank Gore 2919yds*i 12tds

Maurice Jones-Drew 2552yds 24tds

LeSean McCoy 2617yds* 13tds

Ray Rice 2768yds* 8tds

Brian Westbrook 1214yds 11tds

so end of the day, a lot of these guys put up more yards, but only Forte and Gore put up a lot more. and most of these guys have had a 250+ rush season. But the interesting thing is TDs...only MJD in this group got in the endzone more in their first two seasons.

Granted I left off guys like CJ, AP and LT because ya, they blow all these chumps out of the water. But I'm pretty sure that everyone acknowledges that Moreno isn't as good as AP or CJ so it's moot.

When you consider Moreno being unable to stay healthy, the state of the OL, always being behind, and an offensive system that doesn't pad RB's stats, Moreno compares pretty favourable to these backs. Way too early to be calling him a bust.

We do need to get some viable 2nd and 3rd options (or 1a even) before the season starts though, as no back can carry the load single-handedly in today's game.

So if you include CJ, AP & LT; then he's 6th in total yards & 5th in total TD in spite of note getting as many carries because of his coach's play calling philosophy. That's not bad. Yes, he had some bad games, but everyone has bad games against teams that you would expect them to flatten. Whether or not those are the kind of numbers you are looking for from a 1st round pick is irrelevant to me. The bottom line is that he's on the team now and has produced some good numbers in most of the games his coach gave him adequate opportunities in. Trust me, I've watched the Broncos field RBs that produce far less Moreno over the past 30+ years.

If we can get our hands on someone who has already proven that he can produce more, then fine. However, if we are going to take chance on players that have not proven themselves in the NFL, it should be a position that we haven't made much progress in for about the last 10 year. I'm not going to elaborate on that any further here because itís off topic for this thread.

HammeredOut
05-26-2011, 08:40 AM
Just for fun, I looked at a few current backs to see how they did for yards-from-scrimmage and TDs in their first two seasons. This doesn't adjust for games missed, or being a second stringer, or offensive system, quality of line, or wins and losses. Nothing but total yards from scrimmage at end of their second year:

Moreno 2311yds 17tds

Darren McFadden 1386yds 5tds

Reggie Bush 2305yds 14tds

Jamaal Charles 2046yds* 9tds (*at least one 1000 yard rushing season)

Matt Forte 3115yds*i 16tds (i at least one 300 carry season)

Frank Gore 2919yds*i 12tds

Maurice Jones-Drew 2552yds 24tds

LeSean McCoy 2617yds* 13tds

Ray Rice 2768yds* 8tds

Brian Westbrook 1214yds 11tds

so end of the day, a lot of these guys put up more yards, but only Forte and Gore put up a lot more. and most of these guys have had a 250+ rush season. But the interesting thing is TDs...only MJD in this group got in the endzone more in their first two seasons.

Granted I left off guys like CJ, AP and LT because ya, they blow all these chumps out of the water. But I'm pretty sure that everyone acknowledges that Moreno isn't as good as AP or CJ so it's moot.

When you consider Moreno being unable to stay healthy, the state of the OL, always being behind, and an offensive system that doesn't pad RB's stats, Moreno compares pretty favourable to these backs. Way too early to be calling him a bust.

We do need to get some viable 2nd and 3rd options (or 1a even) before the season starts though, as no back can carry the load single-handedly in today's game.

Using the number of starts, lets base the stats on this. All rushing yards on the ground.

Shaun Alexander 29 starts, 2800 yards on the ground.
Larry Johnson 28 starts, 4100 yards on the ground.
Clint Portis 25 starts, 3100 yards on the ground.
Rudi Johnson 21 starts, 2400 yards on the ground.
Willis McGahee 24 starts, 2400 yards on the ground.
Willie Parker 31 starts, 2600 yards on the ground
Steven Jackson 34 starts, 3100 yards on the ground.
Mike Anderson 19 starts, 2100 yards on the ground.
Tatem Bell 22 starts, 2700 yards on the ground.
Jamal Lewis 28 starts, 2700 yards on the ground.
Priest Holmes 19 starts, 2100 yards on the ground.
Jerome Bettis 28 starts, 2500 yards on the ground.
Marion Barbar 41 starts, 4300 yards on the ground.
Edge James 32 starts, 3200 yards on the ground.

Then you have No-Show Moreno with 22 starts, 1700 on the ground, averaging 59 on the ground, and only 2 games with 100 plus yards rushing in his career.

underrated29
05-26-2011, 09:59 AM
Just for fun, I looked at a few current backs to see how they did for yards-from-scrimmage and TDs in their first two seasons. This doesn't adjust for games missed, or being a second stringer, or offensive system, quality of line, or wins and losses. Nothing but total yards from scrimmage at end of their second year:

Moreno 2311yds 17tds

Darren McFadden 1386yds 5tds

Reggie Bush 2305yds 14tds

Jamaal Charles 2046yds* 9tds (*at least one 1000 yard rushing season)

Matt Forte 3115yds*i 16tds (i at least one 300 carry season)

Frank Gore 2919yds*i 12tds

Maurice Jones-Drew 2552yds 24tds

LeSean McCoy 2617yds* 13tds

Ray Rice 2768yds* 8tds

Brian Westbrook 1214yds 11tds

so end of the day, a lot of these guys put up more yards, but only Forte and Gore put up a lot more. and most of these guys have had a 250+ rush season. But the interesting thing is TDs...only MJD in this group got in the endzone more in their first two seasons.

Granted I left off guys like CJ, AP and LT because ya, they blow all these chumps out of the water. But I'm pretty sure that everyone acknowledges that Moreno isn't as good as AP or CJ so it's moot.

When you consider Moreno being unable to stay healthy, the state of the OL, always being behind, and an offensive system that doesn't pad RB's stats, Moreno compares pretty favourable to these backs. Way too early to be calling him a bust.

We do need to get some viable 2nd and 3rd options (or 1a even) before the season starts though, as no back can carry the load single-handedly in today's game.




and once again logic enters the thread!

underrated29
05-26-2011, 10:00 AM
Using the number of starts, lets base the stats on this. All rushing yards on the ground.

Shaun Alexander 29 starts, 2800 yards on the ground.
Larry Johnson 28 starts, 4100 yards on the ground.
Clint Portis 25 starts, 3100 yards on the ground.
Rudi Johnson 21 starts, 2400 yards on the ground.
Willis McGahee 24 starts, 2400 yards on the ground.
Willie Parker 31 starts, 2600 yards on the ground
Steven Jackson 34 starts, 3100 yards on the ground.
Mike Anderson 19 starts, 2100 yards on the ground.
Tatem Bell 22 starts, 2700 yards on the ground.
Jamal Lewis 28 starts, 2700 yards on the ground.
Priest Holmes 19 starts, 2100 yards on the ground.
Jerome Bettis 28 starts, 2500 yards on the ground.
Marion Barbar 41 starts, 4300 yards on the ground.
Edge James 32 starts, 3200 yards on the ground.

Then you have No-Show Moreno with 22 starts, 1700 on the ground, averaging 59 on the ground, and only 2 games with 100 plus yards rushing in his career.



and once again logic exits the thread.

HammeredOut
05-26-2011, 10:13 AM
and once again logic exits the thread.

Stats don't figure into your logic. They stumble your stuper don't they.

No-Show can't even live up to the billing of being an everydown back. He is a change of pace 3rd down back, which no team is affraid of No-Show running the ball, because his 59 yards a game won't hurt you.

We need a starter who can get yards on the ground. Comparing 3rd down change of pace backs, to players who rush the ball on the ground exclusively, is a non-comparison.

By your logic 29, Know-Show is a better player then Chris Johnson because he is not as good as receiver as Know-Show. Right.. Because RB's rushing the ball on the ground, there stats don't count unless your talking about recieving yards in the air with the RB.

underrated29
05-26-2011, 10:13 AM
another post from another poster at another board.....




his rookie year he led the league in yards after intial contact with like 650 of his 950 total rushing yards. with means almost 2/3 of his yards came after he was hit. and that points to the line not opening up holes for him or allowing defenders behind the LOS.

with that stat in mind i would very much like to see what he can do with a line that opens up holes for him and prevents defenders from immediately getting behind the LOS on running plays

HammeredOut
05-26-2011, 10:17 AM
another post from another poster at another board.....




his rookie year he led the league in yards after intial contact with like 650 of his 950 total rushing yards. with means almost 2/3 of his yards came after he was hit. and that points to the line not opening up holes for him or allowing defenders behind the LOS.

with that stat in mind i would very much like to see what he can do with a line that opens up holes for him and prevents defenders from immediately getting behind the LOS on running plays

Know Show is slower then gravy pouring out of some fat chicks leg. He is so, slow, that when he runs, you can smell his ass hair burning.

HammeredOut
05-26-2011, 10:19 AM
Using the number of starts, lets base the stats on this. All rushing yards on the ground.

Shaun Alexander 29 starts, 2800 yards on the ground.
Larry Johnson 28 starts, 4100 yards on the ground.
Clint Portis 25 starts, 3100 yards on the ground.
Rudi Johnson 21 starts, 2400 yards on the ground.
Willis McGahee 24 starts, 2400 yards on the ground.
Willie Parker 31 starts, 2600 yards on the ground
Steven Jackson 34 starts, 3100 yards on the ground.
Mike Anderson 19 starts, 2100 yards on the ground.
Tatem Bell 22 starts, 2700 yards on the ground.
Jamal Lewis 28 starts, 2700 yards on the ground.
Priest Holmes 19 starts, 2100 yards on the ground.
Jerome Bettis 28 starts, 2500 yards on the ground.
Marion Barbar 41 starts, 4300 yards on the ground.
Edge James 32 starts, 3200 yards on the ground.

Then you have No-Show Moreno with 22 starts, 1700 on the ground, averaging 59 on the ground, and only 2 games with 100 plus yards rushing in his career.

Now if I added all purpose yards, No-Show would be a N0-Show on the board. He is that bad of a player. Mr.Glassman, who is injury prone, no burst, and his longest play of the year comes from a Draw Play 3rd and 25 on the last play of the year.

rcsodak
05-26-2011, 10:21 AM
Running out of McDs offense takes a big punishing back imo.

Running out of the shotgun is the easiest run to read, and it gives the advantage to the defense when it comes to the run game. The only reason to RUN out of the shotgun in McDs offense is to supposedly 'keep the defense honest', in honoring the run.

Baloney.

Its pretty pitiful.


Traditional running game is going to be needed if youre going to be a running team in this league.

There wont be any 1300 yard rushers in McDs offense.


I doubt even Steven Jackson will do so this year in that offense, but if he does, it will be at a terrible cost to him physically, cause every yard he gets will be a yard earned imo.


Knowshon should do better imo in the ZBS.


If he doesnt.............sigh.

Agreed.

underrated29
05-26-2011, 10:22 AM
Stats don't figure into your logic. They stumble your stuper don't they.

No-Show can't even live up to the billing of being an everydown back. He is a change of pace 3rd down back, which no team is affraid of No-Show running the ball, because his 59 yards a game won't hurt you.

We need a starter who can get yards on the ground. Comparing 3rd down change of pace backs, to players who rush the ball on the ground exclusively, is a non-comparison.

By your logic 29, Know-Show is a better player then Chris Johnson because he is not as good as receiver as Know-Show. Right.. Because RB's rushing the ball on the ground, there stats don't count unless your talking about recieving yards in the air with the RB.





You must be a politician because making up nonsense and putting words in my mouth seems all you can do.



I never said he was better than cj2k..That is just some dumb thing you made up.


I also love how you completely ignore everytime I ask. What number should a 2nd year back have!? It really is a simple question. Very simple. I also find it very amusing how you add in the games where he had 1 attempt for 4 yards, and another game where he had 4 attempts for like 12 yards...Way to squew the stats, or the fact that you discount the other games where he tore it up.

Would ray rice or mjd be valued as high as they are if they did not catch the ball so well. Or old school brian westbrook or steven jackson?
NO!

RBs run and catch. That is what the position does. More than any other position. Get used to it. Also remember yards mean jack shiat when compared to points. Knowshon has 17 tds in 2 years...I think only brandon marshall has more over that time frame. And as the numbers above show only a couple back in the entire nfl have more than he did their first two years.


FACE IT- you cant win. You are extremely biased because Mcd picked him and you got butt hurt that he was chosen instead of defense and now you are so blinded by your hate that you can not and will not acknowledge that his numbers in two years are pretty good. Especially when you consider the team and OL he has had to deal with.

Once again- logic is in play.

rcsodak
05-26-2011, 10:26 AM
Just for fun, I looked at a few current backs to see how they did for yards-from-scrimmage and TDs in their first two seasons. This doesn't adjust for games missed, or being a second stringer, or offensive system, quality of line, or wins and losses. Nothing but total yards from scrimmage at end of their second year:

Moreno 2311yds 17tds

Darren McFadden 1386yds 5tds

Reggie Bush 2305yds 14tds

Jamaal Charles 2046yds* 9tds (*at least one 1000 yard rushing season)

Matt Forte 3115yds*i 16tds (i at least one 300 carry season)

Frank Gore 2919yds*i 12tds

Maurice Jones-Drew 2552yds 24tds

LeSean McCoy 2617yds* 13tds

Ray Rice 2768yds* 8tds

Brian Westbrook 1214yds 11tds

so end of the day, a lot of these guys put up more yards, but only Forte and Gore put up a lot more. and most of these guys have had a 250+ rush season. But the interesting thing is TDs...only MJD in this group got in the endzone more in their first two seasons.

Granted I left off guys like CJ, AP and LT because ya, they blow all these chumps out of the water. But I'm pretty sure that everyone acknowledges that Moreno isn't as good as AP or CJ so it's moot.

When you consider Moreno being unable to stay healthy, the state of the OL, always being behind, and an offensive system that doesn't pad RB's stats, Moreno compares pretty favourable to these backs. Way too early to be calling him a bust.

We do need to get some viable 2nd and 3rd options (or 1a even) before the season starts though, as no back can carry the load single-handedly in today's game.

Agreed.

HammeredOut
05-26-2011, 10:36 AM
You must be a politician because making up nonsense and putting words in my mouth seems all you can do.



I never said he was better than cj2k..That is just some dumb thing you made up.


I also love how you completely ignore everytime I ask. What number should a 2nd year back have!? It really is a simple question. Very simple. I also find it very amusing how you add in the games where he had 1 attempt for 4 yards, and another game where he had 4 attempts for like 12 yards...Way to squew the stats, or the fact that you discount the other games where he tore it up.

Would ray rice or mjd be valued as high as they are if they did not catch the ball so well. Or old school brian westbrook or steven jackson?
NO!

RBs run and catch. That is what the position does. More than any other position. Get used to it. Also remember yards mean jack shiat when compared to points. Knowshon has 17 tds in 2 years...I think only brandon marshall has more over that time frame. And as the numbers above show only a couple back in the entire nfl have more than he did their first two years.


FACE IT- you cant win. You are extremely biased because Mcd picked him and you got butt hurt that he was chosen instead of defense and now you are so blinded by your hate that you can not and will not acknowledge that his numbers in two years are pretty good. Especially when you consider the team and OL he has had to deal with.

Once again- logic is in play.


To let you in on some Football stats. A great portion of TD stats come from RB's. They account about a third of the TD stats, after WRs and TEs.

Kyle Orton had 20 touchdowns, so he had more then Know-show.

Jerome Bettis one season had 8TD's in 10 yards. That doesn't mean he was the best RB in Pittsburg that year. It means Willie Parker was doing the brunt of the work, and Jerome pounded the ball in.

The O line isn't to blame if Orton was getting the 3rd most yards per game in the league.

If you looked at my post above you will notice a trend with the first 20 to 30 starts between running backs who I compared with Production on the ground. Knowshon is nowhere near a good running back.

YOu seem to think that his ALL purpose yards make up for the fact he can't run the ball. I did acknowledge that he had 2 good games in 2 years, with 2 games of 100 or more rushing yards.

If you compare Knowshon to the past 2 seasons with all the running backs, he is below average, because he can't get a 100 yards rushing on the ground, can't stay healthy, and isn't even among average running backs when it comes to total production.

You will say he averaged 4. something a carrie and say he was just as good as such and such.. But if you noticed, part time back, to a full time back who does it all the time is no comparison.

If you know about Baltimore plan, then you would know that Ray Rice that he had 2600 yards on the ground, and 1300 in the air recieving. Know-show is about half that player in comparison.

HammeredOut
05-26-2011, 10:38 AM
let me guess. 29 is a Josh MCDaniels fan, because he wants all of McDaniels draft picks to pan out, even when they look second teir, and compare second teir in comparison.

underrated29
05-26-2011, 10:55 AM
let me guess. 29 is a Josh MCDaniels fan, because he wants all of McDaniels draft picks to pan out, even when they look second teir, and compare second teir in comparison.


Once again. You would be wrong.

While I do want all of Joshs picks to pan out- because they are broncos- I really give two shits who drafted them. And if you would read the other posts I hated his scheme and his play calling and just about everything else he did too. There is IIRC only 1 josh fan boy on this board....He is from texas and well, look for the phrases of "mikey" and "bovine excrement"


However, I can tell that you are against anything josh (which is stupid, its not the players faults they were drafted by him) and that you are a hillis butt buddy. Which is fine because hillis rocks. But hating on a dude because the coach you hate picked him, or because he was drafted and replaced your best buddy is totally stupid. It is at that point where logic leaves.

Ravage!!!
05-26-2011, 10:56 AM
and once again logic enters the thread!


and once again logic exits the thread.

come one 29... you just looked at stats that supported you an said its logic, and looked at stats that didn't and called it illogical. Thats something WIZ would do, and I know you are better than that.

I get that you are a moreno fan, and thats cool. I think you believing that he's going to average over 5+ yrds a carry is a big large, but as of right now he has NOT shown to be a good 'Running" running back. He's shown that he can be a good third down back. I'm with you in hoping that changes with a coach that actually understands the benefit of runnng the football, instead of what we had most of the last two years. I like his attitude and spirit. I just hope the rest matches that. I would LOVE to have the dynamic back I was hoping to get when using the #12 pick on him.

But as of right now, it hasn't shown. He's pretty slow, and its hard to be dynamic in the NFL at that speed. Hillis is faster, and weighs about 40 lbs more. That says something.

underrated29
05-26-2011, 10:57 AM
Know Show is slower then gravy pouring out of some fat chicks leg. He is so, slow, that when he runs, you can smell his ass hair burning.



No denying he is slow. No one said he is fast. This brings us back to the Mike Anderson vs Tatum Bell topic.

Who would you rather have?

Tatum could bust the big one, but sucked at everything else. Mike could never bust the big one but could pick up the yards and keep the chains moving.


Me perosnally, would like a back like MA- HOWEVER, all offseason I have been saying we MUST get a speed back in here.

Ravage!!!
05-26-2011, 11:00 AM
No denying he is slow. No one said he is fast. This brings us back to the Mike Anderson vs Tatum Bell topic.

Who would you rather have?

Tatum could bust the big one, but sucked at everything else. Mike could never bust the big one but could pick up the yards and keep the chains moving.


Me perosnally, would like a back like MA- HOWEVER, all offseason I have been saying we MUST get a speed back in here.

Good points and examples.. EXCEPT... Mike Anderson was more of a bruiser, and Moreno isn't.

So I agree that we need a speed back, but then what part does Moreno play... certainly not your bruiser.

HammeredOut
05-26-2011, 11:01 AM
Once again. You would be wrong.

While I do want all of Joshs picks to pan out- because they are broncos- I really give two shits who drafted them. And if you would read the other posts I hated his scheme and his play calling and just about everything else he did too. There is IIRC only 1 josh fan boy on this board....He is from texas and well, look for the phrases of "mikey" and "bovine excrement"


However, I can tell that you are against anything josh (which is stupid, its not the players faults they were drafted by him) and that you are a hillis butt buddy. Which is fine because hillis rocks. But hating on a dude because the coach you hate picked him, or because he was drafted and replaced your best buddy is totally stupid. It is at that point where logic leaves.

So now you think because Know-Show has bad production compared to others in the league, that I don't like him because he is Josh McDaniels draft pick. lol :coffee: :welcome:

My point is Know-Show is not productive, and I assumed since you wont look at the stats or posts above, that the only reason why you like Know-Sho and have a hard-on for him, is because your a fan of Josh McDaniels, and not the Broncos.

If you havn't noticed yet, all of Josh McDaniels draft picks, and trades never panned out. Just so you know.

The Denver tradition has been such. Dial a back that gets a 1000 on the ground, we have never questioned management signing the towel boy for 3 quarters to get us a 100 yard game, and 1000 yard season. Now we have a 1st round pick in Moreno who hasn't yet looked as good as the towel boy running the ball.

underrated29
05-26-2011, 11:07 AM
rav- i said it because he was twisting the stats.

The first 29 starts is really misleading. Had he shown it in a non biased way I would have nothing to refute.

underrated29
05-26-2011, 11:09 AM
Good points and examples.. EXCEPT... Mike Anderson was more of a bruiser, and Moreno isn't.

So I agree that we need a speed back, but then what part does Moreno play... certainly not your bruiser.



Which sucks. He does not really fit any of those roles.

Hes not a speed back
not a punisher
not really a scat back either although I guess this would be his closest comparison.


He is a jack of all master of none. So I see we have white for bruising, knowshon for whatever else, and need a speedster to complete the trifecta.

underrated29
05-26-2011, 11:12 AM
So now you think because Know-Show has bad production compared to others in the league, that I don't like him because he is Josh McDaniels draft pick. lol :coffee: :welcome:

My point is Know-Show is not productive, and I assumed since you wont look at the stats or posts above, that the only reason why you like Know-Sho and have a hard-on for him, is because your a fan of Josh McDaniels, and not the Broncos.

If you havn't noticed yet, all of Josh McDaniels draft picks, and trades never panned out. Just so you know.

The Denver tradition has been such. Dial a back that gets a 1000 on the ground, we have never questioned management signing the towel boy for 3 quarters to get us a 100 yard game, and 1000 yard season. Now we have a 1st round pick in Moreno who hasn't yet looked as good as the towel boy running the ball.



you're killing me smalls. Between your lack of reading comprehension and inability to even generate a rational thought I can only do one thing with you from here on out.

Just one question- again. (and probably again and again and again, and again)



What exactly are the numbers a 2nd year rb should have?
pretty simple.

T.K.O.
05-26-2011, 11:26 AM
somebody better start remodeling the "crow cafe'" cuz if healthy white AND moreno will be a force on a fox run team !!!!:salute:

Ravage!!!
05-26-2011, 11:56 AM
Which sucks. He does not really fit any of those roles.

Hes not a speed back
not a punisher
not really a scat back either although I guess this would be his closest comparison.


He is a jack of all master of none. So I see we have white for bruising, knowshon for whatever else, and need a speedster to complete the trifecta.

Exactly. Which does make you wonder ( or me ) if he's a full time back since he hasn't shown the ability to 'excel' at anything. Which tends me to see him as a Kevin Faulk type of player (with more skill set than Faulk). They are roughly the same size, neither is a speedster, both are good at catching the passes out of the backfield. I just HOPE that Knowshon proves to be more than a Faulk considering the number he was drafted at.

rcsodak
05-26-2011, 12:05 PM
and once again logic enters the thread!And from Canada, no less! :eek:

rcsodak
05-26-2011, 12:05 PM
and once again logic exits the thread.
rotflmao

rcsodak
05-26-2011, 12:07 PM
Know Show is slower then gravy pouring out of some fat chicks leg. He is so, slow, that when he runs, you can smell his ass hair burning.
:eek:
Why.........never mind. :tsk:

Slick
05-26-2011, 12:48 PM
I don't think we can label Moreno anything until we see him run in an offense that is more dedicated to a run game. His vision is his biggest weakness. I'm hoping we find a real fullback to help pave the way. Denver needs their version of a Brad Hoover. What I don't think we should do is count on lendale white to be healthy. Personally, I'd rather see us take James Davis from clevelands practice squad.

LRtagger
05-26-2011, 01:12 PM
I don't think we can label Moreno anything until we see him run in an offense that is more dedicated to a run game. His vision is his biggest weakness. I'm hoping we find a real fullback to help pave the way. Denver needs their version of a Brad Hoover. What I don't think we should do is count on lendale white to be healthy. Personally, I'd rather see us take James Davis from clevelands practice squad.

Exactly. We are going from a coach that peppers in the run to setup the pass to a coach that relies on the run game to pick up yards and uses the pass as a last resort. If we can get Deangelo and go into the season with Moreno, Williams, and Lenwhale when we will be in great shape.

Moreno can be a great back, but he cant take the beating of 300+ carries per season.

TXBRONC
05-26-2011, 03:55 PM
Exactly. We are going from a coach that peppers in the run to setup the pass to a coach that relies on the run game to pick up yards and uses the pass as a last resort. If we can get Deangelo and go into the season with Moreno, Williams, and Lenwhale when we will be in great shape.

Moreno can be a great back, but he cant take the beating of 300+ carries per season.

He might be able to handle 300 carries if he improved his stamina.

underrated29
05-26-2011, 04:05 PM
He might be able to handle 300 carries if he improved his stamina.



Or rinsed the sand out of his giner.

TXBRONC
05-26-2011, 04:34 PM
Or rinsed the sand out of his giner.

I'm sure Clay would be glad to lend a hand. :lol: