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View Full Version : How many sacks does Vonny Boy get?



underrated29
05-13-2011, 01:54 PM
Is there a thread for this already? I do not know. If there is just play along anyway. Assume its the full 16 game season.


I say 6.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-13-2011, 02:11 PM
It will be intersting to see who teams scheme for at the beginning of the year. Hopefully Elvis starts out strong because ideally he will have to be doubled, so as Von is moved around it will create a lot of problems. I think he will end up being singled teamed with RT's, TE's, and FB's a lot, which should create some nice mis-matches.

cuzz4169
05-13-2011, 02:12 PM
10+ there is no doubt the team will have a lot of blitz packages around him...he will have every opportunity to succeed. I don't think the league has seen many pass rushers with the speed and athletic ability this guy brings to the table. He's CB athletic, LB size rushing the QB.

NorCalBronco7
05-13-2011, 02:22 PM
Who knows with the current defensive line?

But Ill say 7 sacks. 18 TFL.

Davii
05-13-2011, 02:23 PM
Von on one side, Elvis on the other....

What's a team to do?

Run quick routes and try to keep the qb from getting killed. Either Von and Elvis both have a lot of sacks or our secondary has a lot of turn overs. Either way, this is going to be a much better d.

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 02:37 PM
Von on one side, Elvis on the other....

What's a team to do?

Run quick routes and try to keep the qb from getting killed. Either Von and Elvis both have a lot of sacks or our secondary has a lot of turn overs. Either way, this is going to be a much better d.

With no DT's, why would teams attempt a pass?

I said 3.

underrated29
05-13-2011, 02:42 PM
10+ there is no doubt the team will have a lot of blitz packages around him...he will have every opportunity to succeed. I don't think the league has seen many pass rushers with the speed and athletic ability this guy brings to the table. He's CB athletic, LB size rushing the QB.




While I agree here I just think there is going to be a learning curve for him. Remember most speed rushers in college do not translate, usually, immediately in the NFL because the NFL guys have proper technique.

Now, after he gets a feel for things I think he will be a 10+. For now I think about 6 or 7. However, if your scenario works out this year like I think it will next year then that would be like nut in the dumb friends league.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 02:49 PM
4 sacks in 6 weeks. Then he gets hurt and finishes on IR week 6 because we can't protect him and he gets his ankle rolled up on and broken by an O-lineman.

In those 6 weeks, he's relatively ineffective vs the run and is actually taken off the field in Nickel packages (unless they blitz him) due to looking "lost" in coverage so his coverage responsibilities drop. He's a reasonably effective blitzer/rusher, but that's about it.

Those are my predictions. Why? Because we haven't had a defensive player who was a 1st round pick of the Broncos be the guy we drafted since Al Wilson... why expect it now?

cuzz4169
05-13-2011, 02:54 PM
4 sacks in 6 weeks. Then he gets hurt and finishes on IR week 6 because we can't protect him and he gets his ankle rolled up on and broken by an O-lineman.

In those 6 weeks, he's relatively ineffective vs the run and is actually taken off the field in Nickel packages (unless they blitz him) due to looking "lost" in coverage so his coverage responsibilities drop. He's a reasonably effective blitzer/rusher, but that's about it.

Those are my predictions. Why? Because we haven't had a defensive player who was a 1st round pick of the Broncos be the guy we drafted since Al Wilson... why expect it now?

Don't think he will play LB in nickle.

cuzz4169
05-13-2011, 03:02 PM
While I agree here I just think there is going to be a learning curve for him. Remember most speed rushers in college do not translate, usually, immediately in the NFL because the NFL guys have proper technique.

Now, after he gets a feel for things I think he will be a 10+. For now I think about 6 or 7. However, if your scenario works out this year like I think it will next year then that would be like nut in the dumb friends league.

Maybe your right..but he has a ton of pass rush moves. He will get 4-6 sacks just by scheme design, he will be unblocked. When you got a guy who can run a 4.46 blitzing and is 240+ you have to get it so a RB is blocking him in certain schemes. I just don't think we have seen a guy like this in a long time in the NFL with that type of speed and pass rushing ability.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 03:15 PM
Don't think he will play LB in nickle.

I don't think we'll really be dumb enough to put him at DE with his hand in the dirt (unless it's 3rd and VERY long - like 10+ yds). If he is on the field on 3rd down as a rusher, they'll likely stand him up (LB style like he played in college and like the 'Skins did with Orakpo in their 4-3 his 1st year) and let him "blitz". I just don't see them lining up a 6'3" 240 lb LB at DE with his hand in the dirt. If I saw that as the other team, I'd run right at him and pick up 5+ yards a carry. OT's are going to maul this dude in the running game. The only way he has any advantage is playing in space and rushing upfield.

I like Von as a blitzer and pass-rusher, but I have no faith in him as a 4-3 LB - because he's never done it. There's more than just blitzing the QB as a 4-3 OLB. Von won't be the next Clay Matthews because Matthews plays OLB in a 3-4 where all he has to do is rush the QB (he actually has very little other responsibilities - they use him like we used Doom in the 3-4, something we can't do with Von and Doom). Von will be expected to play the run and cover TEs and RBs the other 66% of the plays he's on the field. Until he proves he can, I won't count on him to.

cuzz4169
05-13-2011, 03:20 PM
I don't think we'll really be dumb enough to put him at DE with his hand in the dirt (unless it's 3rd and VERY long - like 10+ yds). If he is on the field on 3rd down as a rusher, they'll likely stand him up (LB style like he played in college and like the 'Skins did with Orakpo in their 4-3 his 1st year) and let him "blitz". I just don't see them lining up a 6'3" 240 lb LB at DE with his hand in the dirt. If I saw that as the other team, I'd run right at him and pick up 5+ yards a carry. OT's are going to maul this dude in the running game. The only way he has any advantage is playing in space and rushing upfield.

I like Von as a blitzer and pass-rusher, but I have no faith in him as a 4-3 LB - because he's never done it. There's more than just blitzing the QB as a 4-3 OLB. Von won't be the next Clay Matthews because Matthews plays OLB in a 3-4 where all he has to do is rush the QB (he actually has very little other responsibilities - they use him like we usd Doom in the 3-4, something we can't do with Von and Doom). Von will be expected to play the run and cover TEs and RBs the other 66% of the plays he's on the field. Until he proves he can, I won't count on him to.

Robert Mathis?

Did you have faith in Dareus playing DT in 3-4? he didn't do it in college. he Dropped in coverage a lot at Texas A&M this year.

You guys make it sound like he's the only player playing defense. I don't care if he gets mauled...someone else makes the tackle its the NFL not High School where you can just pick out one player on the line and run at him.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 03:42 PM
Robert Mathis?

Did you have faith in Dareus playing DT in 3-4? he didn't do it in college. he Dropped in coverage a lot at Texas A&M this year.

You guys make it sound like he's the only player playing defense. I don't care if he gets mauled...someone else makes the tackle its the NFL not High School where you can just pick out one player on the line and run at him.

You aren't helping your case. The Colts DEs are TERRIBLE vs the run. The only reason that the Colts defense is even REMOTELY effective is because their Peyton Manning led scoring juggernaut gets leads that makes other teams' offense one dimensional so the defense can pass rush and almost ignore the run.

Last I checked, our offense scores under 20 PPG and our defense was 31st vs the run. Not too likely we'll be keeping other teams in 3rd and long this year very often of forcing them to be one dimensional.


You're one of those guys that thought Robert Ayers would transition well to 3-4 OLB after he'd never played it, didn't you? Von Miller has to prove that he can play 4-3 OLB before I will believe he can. He played 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB (which are VERY SIMILAR) in college. He's never had the responsibilities he will as a SAM OLB in the 4-3.

When I see it, I'll believe it. Until then, Von is just another Robert Ayers.

Dareus has at least played several positions on the D-line (5 tech in the 3-4 and 3 tech in the 4-3) at Alabama so he actually did translate as a 4-3 3 tech. More "experts" think he'd actually be more effective as a 4-3 UT than a 3-4 5 tech because he can penetrate and has a quick first step. Some feel his talent will be wasted being a 3-4 clogger in Buffalo.

We'll see, I guess.

jhildebrand
05-13-2011, 03:49 PM
6 sacks up for DROY

Nomad
05-13-2011, 04:17 PM
I'll agree with HP56!

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 04:26 PM
Don't think he will play LB in nickle.Well, that may be the end result, but EFX has said he's a 3 down player.

I can see him dropping, in 21pkgs, and rushing in 11's.

nevcraw
05-13-2011, 05:20 PM
Well, that may be the end result, but EFX has said he's a 3 down player.

nope -- they said he was 4 down player..

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 05:49 PM
nope -- they said he was 4 down player..Prolly have him returning kicks, too.

atwater27
05-13-2011, 06:43 PM
I vote 7 sacks. Could have been more, then I realize that teams will figure out how easy it will be to run on us and eliminate the need to pass.

cuzz4169
05-13-2011, 06:55 PM
You aren't helping your case. The Colts DEs are TERRIBLE vs the run. The only reason that the Colts defense is even REMOTELY effective is because their Peyton Manning led scoring juggernaut gets leads that makes other teams' offense one dimensional so the defense can pass rush and almost ignore the run.

Haha so many of you show your football knowledge on here...that's why most times I don't even waste my time. You think there DE's are terrible against the run? I give you half credit. How about the style of defense they play. Every D-lineman is coached to get up field. Not to hold ground and take on blocks the reason they have so many running lanes. It's not the DE in Colts D its the scheme.

Let me break something down for you. Being a DE in the NFL and being TERRIBLE against the run there is two things you must do. Get pancaked on every play or come way up field to much. Other than that if you get blocked and hold ground or even pushed back slightly you are ok. Do you think Miller or Doom will get pancaked on every run play or pushed back 5-10 yards on every play? Cmon this aint blindside. Its not one player on an 11 man defense. have you ever heard the saying 9 men to the ball? Backside DE & CB play RTS. Gang Tackle....how long has it been since you have seen a Denver defense play like that consistently? Hopefully Fox & Allen bring that style.

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 06:59 PM
I put 8 but I think it's actually range between 6 and 8.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 07:21 PM
Haha so many of you show your football knowledge on here...that's why most times I don't even waste my time. You think there DE's are terrible against the run? I give you half credit. How about the style of defense they play. Every D-lineman is coached to get up field. Not to hold ground and take on blocks the reason they have so many running lanes. It's not the DE in Colts D its the scheme.

Let me break something down for you. Being a DE in the NFL and being TERRIBLE against the run there is two things you must do. Get pancaked on every play or come way up field to much. Other than that if you get blocked and hold ground or even pushed back slightly you are ok. Do you think Miller or Doom will get pancaked on every run play or pushed back 5-10 yards on every play? Cmon this aint blindside. Its not one player on an 11 man defense. have you ever heard the saying 9 men to the ball? Backside DE & CB play RTS. Gang Tackle....how long has it been since you have seen a Denver defense play like that consistently? Hopefully Fox & Allen bring that style.

And you're only half right. That's the scheme they used to play when Dungy was the coach. Now that Caldwell is the HC, and Larry Coyer is their DC (remember him? :welcome:), they play a much more gap-control traditional cover 2 than the "just rush up-field" Tampa 2 they ran under Dungy and Ron Meeks.

My point is, the Colts, as a team, are historically poor vs the run. They play a small, fast defense that typically is effective enough and is built to protect a lead, but not to stop the run or get off the field. They rely on their offense to give them a lead so they can attack the passer. You must have an effective offense that is in in the top 10 in scoring and time of possession to have such a defense and still win games.

My prediction stands. When was the last time the Broncos had a DROY candidate? Von Miller gets 4 sacks at most and finishes the season on IR. Once we get a real look at what our starting DL will look like, that number may change, but at the rate we're going, Von us going to spend the majority of his time running down RBs 10 yards downfield - from behind.

Dzone
05-13-2011, 07:57 PM
10+, no doubt. Lets return to this thread after the season and prove that Im a freakin genius:lol::laugh:

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 08:21 PM
Just for shits and giggles, I decided to look up the rookie stats of Demarcus Ware and Clay Matthews... both of whom played OLB in a 3-4, both who played for great defensive coaches (Dom Capers and Wade Phillips - who was still the DC then).

Demarcus Ware - 8 sacks.

Clay Matthews - 10 sacks.

So, two guys who came into systems perfectly suited to them, with other talented players around them in the front 7, great defensive minded coaches scheming to their talents specifically, and allowing them to be pass rush specialists almost exclusively - and only one of them managed to break double digit sacks...

Now, Von Miller who will be expected to play SLB in a 4-3 where 66% of his responsibility will be coverage or run stopping, is going to get 10+, as a rookie? Playing for a DC who has never been a DC before in Allen (sure we have a defensive minded HC, but Fox won't be calling the defense)?

Good luck, Von. You've got some seriously HUGE expectations to live up to.

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 08:23 PM
And you're only half right. That's the scheme they used to play when Dungy was the coach. Now that Caldwell is the HC, and Larry Coyer is their DC (remember him? :welcome:), they play a much more gap-control traditional cover 2 than the "just rush up-field" Tampa 2 they ran under Dungy and Ron Meeks.

My point is, the Colts, as a team, are historically poor vs the run. They play a small, fast defense that typically is effective enough and is built to protect a lead, but not to stop the run or get off the field. They rely on their offense to give them a lead so they can attack the passer. You must have an effective offense that is in in the top 10 in scoring and time of possession to have such a defense and still win games.

My prediction stands. When was the last time the Broncos had a DROY candidate? Von Miller gets 4 sacks at most and finishes the season on IR. Once we get a real look at what our starting DL will look like, that number may change, but at the rate we're going, Von us going to spend the majority of his time running down RBs 10 yards downfield - from behind.

Your arguments are always solid HP but as much as I would have liked to take Dareus I don't think Denver blew it. Von Miller imho is as good of pick as Dareus. As far Miller ending up on IR well anything is possible but same time it could happened Dareus just as easily.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 08:40 PM
Your arguments are always solid HP but as much as I would have liked to take Dareus I don't think Denver blew it. Von Miller imho is as good of pick as Dareus. As far Miller ending up on IR well anything is possible but same time it could happened Dareus just as easily.

I like Von Miller, I really do - as an OLB in a 3-4 where he can just get after the QB and set the edge vs the run, rarely having to worry about pass coverage or inside gap control. I just don't think that with the defense we're going to run (where the front 4 and the MLB is the most important part) that drafting an OLB at #2 overall was in our best interest.

As is, we really don't have a place for him and are going to try to "scheme" him. Good Luck. Best case, the guy is another Derrick Thomas, at worst, he's Aaron Curry. Right now, the overwhelming odds are that he'll be the latter.

The thing that scares me the most is that before the Senior Bowl, he was a borderline 1st round pick. Somewhere between the Senior Bowl and the combine, he'd "solidified his place in the first round". After the combine, he was magically a top 10 pick, and then after his pro day and all the hype from guys like Mayock, Kiper, and McShay, he ended up the #2 overall pick. It almost seems as if EFX got wrapped up the hype.

There's a reason that you RARELY see a LB taken in the top ten, much less the top 5. Ray Lewis wasn't top 5, nor was Urlacher, nor was Derrick Thomas, Lawrence Taylor, Al Wilson, etc, etc, etc.

Von Miller, through no fault of his own, has absolutely HUGE expectations. As the #2 overall pick, if he's not the next Derrick Thomas, then we paid too much... period.

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 09:28 PM
I like Von Miller, I really do - as an OLB in a 3-4 where he can just get after the QB and set the edge vs the run, rarely having to worry about pass coverage or inside gap control. I just don't think that with the defense we're going to run (where the front 4 and the MLB is the most important part) that drafting an OLB at #2 overall was in our best interest.

As is, we really don't have a place for him and are going to try to "scheme" him. Good Luck. Best case, the guy is another Derrick Thomas, at worst, he's Aaron Curry. Right now, the overwhelming odds are that he'll be the latter.

The thing that scares me the most is that before the Senior Bowl, he was a borderline 1st round pick. Somewhere between the Senior Bowl and the combine, he'd "solidified his place in the first round". After the combine, he was magically a top 10 pick, and then after his pro day and all the hype from guys like Mayock, Kiper, and McShay, he ended up the #2 overall pick. It almost seems as if EFX got wrapped up the hype.

There's a reason that you RARELY see a LB taken in the top ten, much less the top 5. Ray Lewis wasn't top 5, nor was Urlacher, nor was Derrick Thomas, Lawrence Taylor, Al Wilson, etc, etc, etc.

Von Miller, through no fault of his own, has absolutely HUGE expectations. As the #2 overall pick, if he's not the next Derrick Thomas, then we paid too much... period.

I don't know if Miller playing in a 4-3 is going to be all that much of a problem. It is true that defenses in this day and age don't play nearly as much in their base as they did in the past. Also with his pass rushing abilities I really doubt he will be asked to drop into coverage all that much. You may be right that it drafting Miller may not be in our best interests but that remains to be seen.

If we had drafted Dareus the expectations would be just as high and if he's not the next Warren Sapp then we would have paid to much for him as well.

It's possible for things to go down just the way you've described them but I hope you're dead wrong.

Davii
05-13-2011, 09:32 PM
Just for shits and giggles, I decided to look up the rookie stats of Demarcus Ware and Clay Matthews... both of whom played OLB in a 3-4, both who played for great defensive coaches (Dom Capers and Wade Phillips - who was still the DC then).

Demarcus Ware - 8 sacks.

Clay Matthews - 10 sacks.

So, two guys who came into systems perfectly suited to them, with other talented players around them in the front 7, great defensive minded coaches scheming to their talents specifically, and allowing them to be pass rush specialists almost exclusively - and only one of them managed to break double digit sacks...

Now, Von Miller who will be expected to play SLB in a 4-3 where 66% of his responsibility will be coverage or run stopping, is going to get 10+, as a rookie? Playing for a DC who has never been a DC before in Allen (sure we have a defensive minded HC, but Fox won't be calling the defense)?

Good luck, Von. You've got some seriously HUGE expectations to live up to.

Yeah, but those two didn't wear orange colored glasses or be the Clark Kent of the NFL.

Slick
05-14-2011, 09:33 AM
0 sacks for von miller. No football this year

TXBRONC
05-14-2011, 11:22 AM
0 sacks for von miller. No football this year

Oh go play with the tourists. :D

CoachChaz
05-18-2011, 12:34 PM
I find it mildly entertaining to read the posts from people telling us what Miller can and cant do and predicting what he will do. Especially coming from people that have seen him play 3 games. Lets just forget everything he accomplished in run or coverage packages simply because he had big sack numbers. Lets forget he has experience as a DE and OLB in both the 3-4 and 4-3 hybrid packages he was used in. in fact, lets just forget that he is a football player altogether. Afterall...since hes not a DT and was drafted by Denver...hes destined for failure anyway. When someone who has seen him play for 4 years and knows without a doubt how Allen and Fox will use him can say something educated and intelligent, then we can revisit. Tank this crystal ball negativity shit.

underrated29
05-18-2011, 01:25 PM
I find it mildly entertaining to read the posts from people telling us what Miller can and cant do and predicting what he will do. Especially coming from people that have seen him play 3 games. Lets just forget everything he accomplished in run or coverage packages simply because he had big sack numbers. Lets forget he has experience as a DE and OLB in both the 3-4 and 4-3 hybrid packages he was used in. in fact, lets just forget that he is a football player altogether. Afterall...since hes not a DT and was drafted by Denver...hes destined for failure anyway. When someone who has seen him play for 4 years and knows without a doubt how Allen and Fox will use him can say something educated and intelligent, then we can revisit. Tank this crystal ball negativity shit.



So what did you vote for?

TXBRONC
05-18-2011, 01:25 PM
I find it mildly entertaining to read the posts from people telling us what Miller can and cant do and predicting what he will do. Especially coming from people that have seen him play 3 games. Lets just forget everything he accomplished in run or coverage packages simply because he had big sack numbers. Lets forget he has experience as a DE and OLB in both the 3-4 and 4-3 hybrid packages he was used in. in fact, lets just forget that he is a football player altogether. Afterall...since hes not a DT and was drafted by Denver...hes destined for failure anyway. When someone who has seen him play for 4 years and knows without a doubt how Allen and Fox will use him can say something educated and intelligent, then we can revisit. Tank this crystal ball negativity shit.

I'm sure I get this Chaz. You're ripping everyone for speculating how many sacks he might get? I think he'll get a fair amount of sacks but I don't he'll think all he'll be doing id rushing the passer. I fully expect if he's a starter as sam linebacker he's going to have other responsibilities. Where is negativity in saying I think he'll end up 8 sacks by the end of the season? That's a positive not a negative.

Bosco
05-18-2011, 06:44 PM
I don't think we'll really be dumb enough to put him at DE with his hand in the dirt (unless it's 3rd and VERY long - like 10+ yds). If he is on the field on 3rd down as a rusher, they'll likely stand him up (LB style like he played in college and like the 'Skins did with Orakpo in their 4-3 his 1st year) and let him "blitz". I just don't see them lining up a 6'3" 240 lb LB at DE with his hand in the dirt. If I saw that as the other team, I'd run right at him and pick up 5+ yards a carry. OT's are going to maul this dude in the running game. The only way he has any advantage is playing in space and rushing upfield.

I like Von as a blitzer and pass-rusher, but I have no faith in him as a 4-3 LB - because he's never done it. There's more than just blitzing the QB as a 4-3 OLB. Von won't be the next Clay Matthews because Matthews plays OLB in a 3-4 where all he has to do is rush the QB (he actually has very little other responsibilities - they use him like we used Doom in the 3-4, something we can't do with Von and Doom). Von will be expected to play the run and cover TEs and RBs the other 66% of the plays he's on the field. Until he proves he can, I won't count on him to.

I expect our nickel sets to be run out of the 2-4-5 hybrid. Ayers looked very good as a nickel DT in that set last year so I imagine they'll use him there again with Vickerson or McBean next to him. Then you'd have Miller and Doom as the rush linebackers on the outside with D.J and another LB (Woodyard would be my guess) behind the line.

That's a pretty formidable nickel set if you ask me.

sneakers
05-23-2011, 01:53 AM
Just one. The one sack he was born with.