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HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 06:24 AM
Vickerson has lost over 30 lbs this offseason and showed up to workouts at 285 lbs.

This guy is supposed to be one of our starting DTs, one of the reasons we didn't feel the urgency to draft a DT, and our answer for stopping the run??? We're screwed. I wonder how Fox feels about this...

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos2009/ci_18054727?source=rss

Gonna be a LOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGG season...

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 07:06 AM
More than likely, given a new contract and directed to get to XXX pounds.
I dont recall EFX ever saying Fairley was too light.

SmilinAssasSin27
05-13-2011, 07:36 AM
And now we're upset that our players are actually staying in shape during the offseason???

GEM
05-13-2011, 07:48 AM
According to fox, our defense is going to be based on speed. Move a lot faster at 285 than 310. Just a guess on my part.

SmilinAssasSin27
05-13-2011, 07:56 AM
It's May. If he can lose 30 that quick, he can gain 15-20 back easy...if that's what the coach wants.

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 08:10 AM
More than likely, given a new contract and directed to get to XXX pounds.
I dont recall EFX ever saying Fairley was too light.

I don't think HP was meaning that EFX said that Fairley was to light. They seriously contemplated moving back into the first round to select Fairley I would guess that his weight wasn't an issue for them.

MileHighCrew
05-13-2011, 08:25 AM
According to fox, our defense is going to be based on speed. Move a lot faster at 285 than 310. Just a guess on my part.

Quotes like this from Fox and the ones from McD (not GEM) about size scare the crap out of me. You need size, speed and power on Defence to win. When you eliminate spped for size as McD did you fail, if you eliminate size for speed you lose just as bad. You need all 3.

MileHighCrew
05-13-2011, 08:30 AM
It's May. If he can lose 30 that quick, he can gain 15-20 back easy...if that's what the coach wants.

I wish I could lose and gain 30lbs at will like that. It would be awesome.

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 08:32 AM
According to fox, our defense is going to be based on speed. Move a lot faster at 285 than 310. Just a guess on my part.

Fox said we didn't have enough speed at linebacker. I thought he liked his interior defensive linemen to be bigger because he's had guys like Kris Jenkins and Maake Kemoeatu who tip the scales at 360 lbs each. :shocked:

MileHighCrew
05-13-2011, 08:45 AM
Fox said we didn't have enough speed at linebacker. I thought he liked his interior defensive linemen to be bigger because he's had guys like Kris Jenkins and Maake Kemoeatu who tip the scales at 360 lbs each. :shocked:

That is the perfect mix. Big hogs in the middle slowing everything down and fast guys on the edge and second level knocking them out.

This is the problem with what is left of the Broncos, there were just too many holes to fill. It doesn't matter if you wanted to fix in the interior first as HP56 has suggested or you took Elway's approach and take the speedy once in a generation LB (because I think Elway belives that much in Von) there was going to be huge holes to fill either way. Sadly I don't think FA is going to fix all those holes either, so as HP56 sig states it could be a very long season (assuming there is one and I hope to hell there is one) but that is the results of what they were left with.

But on the topic Vickerson at 285 has to be a concern, because he isn't going to fill many holes being that light. It is great they are in shape but the fat guys need to be fat guys.

BroncoJoe
05-13-2011, 09:02 AM
Part of the article at the Denver Post:


When Broncos defensive tackle Kevin Vickerson strolled into the South Suburban Sports Dome on Tuesday, his teammates did a double take.

"They were like, 'Where is the rest of you at?' " Vickerson said. "I look like I looked at Michigan State."

In the four months since he last saw most of his teammates, he has shed at least 30 pounds. He was was listed at 321 pounds in 2010 but showed up for the voluntary players-only conditioning sessions this week at a lean 285.

He wants to be fitter and faster as the Broncos switch to a 4-3 defense and he slides into the role of starting tackle. The Broncos see Vickerson, 28, as a better fit for the new scheme than he was last year as an end in a 3-4 defense, and they backed it up in March by giving Vickerson a two-year contract extension worth $4.75 million. That was shortly before the NFL lockout started. The deal includes a $1 million signing bonus that Vickerson will receive this summer, regardless of the lockout status.

Read more: A leaner Vickerson plans to fit just fine in new defense for Broncos - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18054727#ixzz1MF0QFYCT
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse


http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18054727

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 09:18 AM
That is the perfect mix. Big hogs in the middle slowing everything down and fast guys on the edge and second level knocking them out.

This is the problem with what is left of the Broncos, there were just too many holes to fill. It doesn't matter if you wanted to fix in the interior first as HP56 has suggested or you took Elway's approach and take the speedy once in a generation LB (because I think Elway belives that much in Von) there was going to be huge holes to fill either way. Sadly I don't think FA is going to fix all those holes either, so as HP56 sig states it could be a very long season (assuming there is one and I hope to hell there is one) but that is the results of what they were left with.

But on the topic Vickerson at 285 has to be a concern, because he isn't going to fill many holes being that light. It is great they are in shape but the fat guys need to be fat guys.

It's sad that fat people are only loved when they can stuff the run and keep big offensive linemen occuppied on passing downs. Otherwise no one wants to be around us fat guys. :tsk: :D

Seriously I just looked up Titans defensive line and they have no one over 294lbs yet they only gave up 3.9 yards per rush. They also collected 40 sacks this past season fwiw.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-13-2011, 09:20 AM
Well, if it was fat, then it didn't do him any good anyway.

If it was muscle he should be able to regain it pretty quickly.

285 is way too light to play DT in Fox's scheme. Fox likes speed at LB and on the edges, but he usually likes big run cloggers at DT.

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 09:32 AM
Well, if it was fat, then it didn't do him any good anyway.

If it was muscle he should be able to regain it pretty quickly.

285 is way too light to play DT in Fox's scheme. Fox likes speed at LB and on the edges, but he usually likes big run cloggers at DT.

Fox saw something in Vickerson that he liked.

topscribe
05-13-2011, 10:10 AM
According to his interview on The Ticket (http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=737&f=77295), Vickerson implied that he just shed the
body fat and wants now to add a few pounds of genuine muscle, although he's
not interested in going clear back up to where he was. That was the impression
I got from it, anyway, in so many words.

That makes sense. Quickness and leverage are more important than sheer mass.
Otherwise, they could just get Jamal back in and plunk him down in the middle.

-----

BORDERLINE
05-13-2011, 10:17 AM
this guy is a pro athlete...there's no doubt he can add at least fifteen pounds of muscle by the start of the season if he wants to...with that said I personally do not want Jamal williams back that guy was nothing but a waste of space...

underrated29
05-13-2011, 10:33 AM
I might have read this incorrectly, but I think they prefer bick vick as the penetrater type and want to sign someone who is the run stuffing hold the lineman up type. I know they feel vick can play both, but they would prefer him to do the nick fairley instead of the dareus.


That is my impression. So a leaner faster vick, would be more apt to slip through and penetrate..:naughty:

silkamilkamonico
05-13-2011, 11:07 AM
Vickerson was never an answer for stopping the run. He has always been a pass rushing Dlinemen, regardless of his size.

broncos7702
05-13-2011, 11:53 AM
i played dt for many years and i ranged on size from 280 to 320 ...it dont matter when u have strength and technique. it only matters when its 30 lbs of fat

SoCalImport
05-13-2011, 12:00 PM
I might have read this incorrectly, but I think they prefer bick vick as the penetrater type and want to sign someone who is the run stuffing hold the lineman up type. I know they feel vick can play both, but they would prefer him to do the nick fairley instead of the dareus.


That is my impression. So a leaner faster vick, would be more apt to slip through and penetrate..:naughty:

certainly his play last year backs this up. That int was a incredibly athletic play.

HammeredOut
05-13-2011, 12:10 PM
Vickerson is just trying something new, and wants to improve himself if he can. You can't many new skills in the league as many of the players picked it up in college, but you can teach strength, so I'm wondering if this is going to be the strength guy on the line if he starts full time, and commits himself.

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 12:14 PM
I don't think HP was meaning that EFX said that Fairley was to light. They seriously contemplated moving back into the first round to select Fairley I would guess that his weight wasn't an issue for them.
So its HP that has issue with it.

Gotcha.

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 12:25 PM
Quotes like this from Fox and the ones from McD (not GEM) about size scare the crap out of me. You need size, speed and power on Defence to win. When you eliminate spped for size as McD did you fail, if you eliminate size for speed you lose just as bad. You need all 3.

Maybe Vick feels he can play faster and stronger at a lower weight. Maybe he's going to play LDE.

He's been with the team for 1yr, so none of us know much about him.

They passed up on the player you described (MD). Guess we'll see, come FA time.

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 12:35 PM
Well, if it was fat, then it didn't do him any good anyway.

If it was muscle he should be able to regain it pretty quickly.

285 is way too light to play DT in Fox's scheme. Fox likes speed at LB and on the edges, but he usually likes big run cloggers at DT.
Fox isnt the DC.
You don't get stronger just by being fatter.
If he keeps his strength while getting faster, win win. Especially when an attacking/gap shooting DT.

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 12:38 PM
Vickerson was never an answer for stopping the run. He has always been a pass rushing Dlinemen, regardless of his size.
When he was on the field, they were better at stopping the run than when he wasn't. I pointed that out a couple times last year.

MileHighCrew
05-13-2011, 12:41 PM
Maybe Vick feels he can play faster and stronger at a lower weight. Maybe he's going to play LDE.

He's been with the team for 1yr, so none of us know much about him.

They passed up on the player you described (MD). Guess we'll see, come FA time.

I said you need size speed and strength. If it works for Vickerson then great for the Broncos but you need some big meat in the middle IMO. But I still believe and stated that one draft no matter how good and one round of FA isn't going to fix all the Broncos problems.

Davii
05-13-2011, 12:55 PM
I think Vickerson will be fine. Obviously he felt that losing that weight would help him in the long run. I'm sure he managed to maintain, if not build strength. I'll take a strong athletic 300pounder over a fat slow 350 pounder any day of the week. A guy that's both would be awesome, but that's not what we have.

I think he'll be improved over last year, obviously EFX liked what they saw, and I guarantee he didn't lose all that weight since his extension, the staff knew his game plan and may have even had their hand in it.

NorCalBronco7
05-13-2011, 01:00 PM
Looks like Vickerson will be playing the 3 tech. Ive never thought of him in playing that position, but he did have marginal success last year in rushing the passer.

I would think nose tackles are much easier to find in free agency so I understand Vickersons new role if he is infact an ut. Thats the only explaination I can come up with as to why hes shed tons of pounds.

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 01:43 PM
I said you need size speed and strength. If it works for Vickerson then great for the Broncos but you need some big meat in the middle IMO. But I still believe and stated that one draft no matter how good and one round of FA isn't going to fix all the Broncos problems.

Absolutely one draft and one free agency signing period won't fix all the problems. Even so we could still end up being a very competitive team.

SOCALORADO.
05-13-2011, 01:55 PM
Everyone relax, i have it on the low down from Foxy that were gettin Mebane and Cofield, so everybody just chill.
Its all good people.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-13-2011, 02:07 PM
According to his interview on The Ticket (http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=737&f=77295), Vickerson implied that he just shed the
body fat and wants now to add a few pounds of genuine muscle, although he's
not interested in going clear back up to where he was. That was the impression
I got from it, anyway, in so many words.

That makes sense. Quickness and leverage are more important than sheer mass.
Otherwise, they could just get Jamal back in and plunk him down in the middle.

-----

That makes sense, and thanks for posting the link. I'll check it out later.

BTW, I wouldn't be opposed at all to bringing J-Wall back. I don't understand why he was berated by the fanbase so much. He didn't have great stats, but he was doubled on almost every play, and was rarely moved off the LOS. IMO, he did his job as a NT.

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 02:08 PM
I said you need size speed and strength. If it works for Vickerson then great for the Broncos but you need some big meat in the middle IMO. But I still believe and stated that one draft no matter how good and one round of FA isn't going to fix all the Broncos problems.
Wasn't arguing with you. ;)
Just said they passed on the guy that fit what you described, in MD.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-13-2011, 02:09 PM
Fox saw something in Vickerson that he liked.

Yeah, I know he did.....he saw Vickerson at 320. :laugh:

NorCalBronco7
05-13-2011, 02:19 PM
That makes sense, and thanks for posting the link. I'll check it out later.

BTW, I wouldn't be opposed at all to bringing J-Wall back. I don't understand why he was berated by the fanbase so much. He didn't have great stats, but he was doubled on almost every play, and was rarely moved off the LOS. IMO, he did his job as a NT.

Williams would be a bad option as a 43 NT and thats why he was let go. He a 34 NT and that it. The problem with him playing that potion is he has absolutley zero atheleticism. You dont need much as a 43 NT but you have to be able to move around laterally at least a small bit, and Williams cant do that at all.

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 02:22 PM
O'bannon might be sweet talked to come back. But he was a little miffed at getting cut, iirc.

topscribe
05-13-2011, 02:31 PM
I think Vickerson will be fine. Obviously he felt that losing that weight would help him in the long run. I'm sure he managed to maintain, if not build strength. I'll take a strong athletic 300pounder over a fat slow 350 pounder any day of the week. A guy that's both would be awesome, but that's not what we have.

I think he'll be improved over last year, obviously EFX liked what they saw, and I guarantee he didn't lose all that weight since his extension, the staff knew his game plan and may have even had their hand in it.

Maybe they saw a strong, athletic 300-pounder in him. He is very athletic . . .

-----

topscribe
05-13-2011, 02:32 PM
That makes sense, and thanks for posting the link. I'll check it out later.

BTW, I wouldn't be opposed at all to bringing J-Wall back. I don't understand why he was berated by the fanbase so much. He didn't have great stats, but he was doubled on almost every play, and was rarely moved off the LOS. IMO, he did his job as a NT.

Jamal as NT and Vick as UT might work. Who knows?

Xanders did say they are interested in bringing Jamal back . . .

-----

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 02:34 PM
For everyone who isn't concerned about Vickerson, consider this:

The last time EFX saw him (and signed him to a long term deal) he was 320+ lbs. Now he's 285 lbs... AT 6'5" TALL! Anyone actually think they wanted him to get down to 285 at 6'5"??? Seriously? I STRONGLY doubt that EFX will be happy to learn that our current only true DT is under weight for his height by around 20 lbs at least.

He's not some 6' or 6'1" guy who can get away with being a little light at DT because he has a low center of gravity. The guy is 6'5" and 285 lbs. He's actually become prototypical size to play LDE in the 4-3. If he lines up at even 3 tech at that weight (don't even think about the 0 or 1 tech NT), he's going to be washed out on every play - penetrate my ass (no homo), he's going to get DESTROYED playing inside vs the run. 300 lb Centers and Guards are going to own this dude at that height/weight. They will straight up run over him.

With Vickerson at 285 at 3 tech, Ayers at 260-275 playing LDE (he was as low as 260 playing LB and 275 playing DE in college) and Doom at roughly 245-260 (he was at 245 playing LB and no more than 260 playing RDE), it really doesn't matter who the 4th guy is, we'll have the smallest D-line in the league. For the team that ended the year 31st vs the run, that's just not a good thing.

As for the Fairley comment, when Fairley weighed in at 291 at the combine at 6'3", everyone ("experts") said he was too light and that he needed to add weight. He was 298 at his pro day. Maybe Vickerson can get back up to 300+, but I'd be willing to bet that EFX aren't happy that he's 285.

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 02:41 PM
HP, what was the date of his new contract?

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 02:56 PM
HP, what was the date of his new contract?

March 3rd. Right before the lockout started (what should've been free agency)

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Vickerson-Rejoins-Club/df42333b-4fdb-4b56-a016-f331d31c45c1

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 03:27 PM
Everyone relax, i have it on the low down from Foxy that were gettin Mebane and Cofield, so everybody just chill.
Its all good people.

That's not what Fox told me. He told me that Cofield and Mike Patterson are at the top of his list of free agents. :D

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 03:31 PM
Jamal as NT and Vick as UT might work. Who knows?

Xanders did say they are interested in bringing Jamal back . . .

-----

Jamal Williams wasn't very good as a nose tackle in the 3-4 I don't think just because we're switching back to a 4-3 that it changes his fortunes. His 35 years old, there's a lot of mileage on his body Top.

topscribe
05-13-2011, 03:42 PM
Jamal Williams wasn't very good as a nose tackle in the 3-4 I don't think just because we're switching back to a 4-3 that it changes his fortunes. His 35 years old, there's a lot of mileage on his body Top.

Well, that's true, and was my thoughts. It's just that they said they were still
interested in getting Jamal back. For the life of me, I can't figure out why, but
they did say that . . . :noidea:

-----

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 03:45 PM
Well, that's true, and was my thoughts. It's just that they said they were still
interested in getting Jamal back. For the life of me, I can't figure out why, but
they did say that . . . :noidea:

-----

Probably because we don't have any DTs left on the roster (not with Vickerson at 285, anyway). Right now, we're slumming and hoping to find some sucker to overpay in free agency to come and play DT for us.

rcsodak
05-13-2011, 05:33 PM
March 3rd. Right before the lockout started (what should've been free agency)

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Vickerson-Rejoins-Club/df42333b-4fdb-4b56-a016-f331d31c45c1
Do you think it was done over the phone or in person?

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 06:21 PM
Do you think it was done over the phone or in person?

Are you trying to imply that they somehow knew he was 285 then? Because if he was, it would've been reported then and wouldn't be such a surprise now.

TXBRONC
05-13-2011, 06:32 PM
Well, that's true, and was my thoughts. It's just that they said they were still
interested in getting Jamal back. For the life of me, I can't figure out why, but
they did say that . . . :noidea:

-----

If they bring him in so be it.

Npba900
05-13-2011, 08:38 PM
Vickerson has lost over 30 lbs this off season and showed up to workouts at 285 lbs.

This guy is supposed to be one of our starting DTs, one of the reasons we didn't feel the urgency to draft a DT, and our answer for stopping the run??? We're screwed. I wonder how Fox feels about this...

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos2009/ci_18054727?source=rss

Gonna be a LOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGG season...

Vickers is smart when you think about it.....he's looking out for his long term health when his playing days are over. There aren't too many 315 plus ex-NFL Linemen walking around from the 80's and 90's, because they are DEAD!

I saw a documentary on the plight of NFL Line men who played at over 300 pounds during their 10-15 year NFL careers and study's have found the line men are killing themselves health wise. It's not natural for the human body to carry around 300 plus pounds

Although in their 20's and 30's during their playing years, they consistently had high blood pressure and cholesterol and showed early signs of irregular heart beats and diabetes. By the time their NFL careers are over these NFL line men their arteries, heart, and insulin blood glucose levels are threatening their lives.

If Vickers can play at 285 pounds, when he retires he should have no problem dropping down to 245-235 pounds to take him into his Golden Years.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-13-2011, 08:47 PM
If Vickers can play at 285 pounds, when he retires he should have no problem dropping down to 245-235 pounds to take him into his Golden Years.

Name a starting DT in the league who plays at 285? Especially one at 6'5". The bottom line is, he can't play at 285 - not on the interior of a 4-3. If he can't get back into the 300 lb range by the time the season starts, neither will he.

Npba900
05-13-2011, 09:01 PM
Name a starting DT in the league who plays at 285? Especially one at 6'5". The bottom line is, he can't play at 285 - not on the interior of a 4-3. If he can't get back into the 300 lb range by the time the season starts, neither will he.

I hear what you're saying. Perhaps being lighter he can be quicker and use athletic leverage to play in the NFL. Point is, NFL lineman playing at 300 plus pounds are ruining their short term during their NFL careers and long term at their playing careers are over; especially if they gain even more weight in retirement. These guys are dead by their late 40's and middle 50's.

WARHORSE
05-13-2011, 10:41 PM
Fox told me we're bringin in Suh in a big trade.

Orton, Quinn, Mario Hagan, Knowshon and the bus boy for SUH.


Done deal.:coffee:

bcbronc
05-14-2011, 04:18 AM
Williams would be a bad option as a 43 NT and thats why he was let go. He a 34 NT and that it. The problem with him playing that potion is he has absolutley zero atheleticism. You dont need much as a 43 NT but you have to be able to move around laterally at least a small bit, and Williams cant do that at all.

I dunno, 34 NT is probably the hardest position to play in football as far as physical demands. 43 should be much easier for JWill at this stage of his career. He'll likely be asked to stuff one gap in this defense, much easier than holding the middle in a 34.

I'd be fine with bringing JWill back as a rotational 1st-sometimes-2nd down guy.




With Vickerson at 285 at 3 tech, Ayers at 260-275 playing LDE (he was as low as 260 playing LB and 275 playing DE in college) and Doom at roughly 245-260 (he was at 245 playing LB and no more than 260 playing RDE), it really doesn't matter who the 4th guy is, we'll have the smallest D-line in the league. For the team that ended the year 31st vs the run, that's just not a good thing.

maybe on running downs Vick plays LDE and Ayers plays RDE with two yet to be acquire DTs in between. then on passing downs Doom at RDE, Ayers at LDE and Vick at UT.

it's looking like we're going to have a tonne of athleticism on our DL, and while I do want to see some beef added at some point, I like where things are going.

TXBRONC
05-14-2011, 07:41 AM
Fox told me we're bringin in Suh in a big trade.

Orton, Quinn, Mario Hagan, Knowshon and the bus boy for SUH.


Done deal.:coffee:

Have you ever considered going into drug rehab? :D

BroncoJoe
05-14-2011, 09:25 AM
Vickers is smart when you think about it.....he's looking out for his long term health when his playing days are over. There aren't too many 315 plus ex-NFL Linemen walking around from the 80's and 90's, because they are DEAD!

I saw a documentary on the plight of NFL Line men who played at over 300 pounds during their 10-15 year NFL careers and study's have found the line men are killing themselves health wise. It's not natural for the human body to carry around 300 plus pounds

Although in their 20's and 30's during their playing years, they consistently had high blood pressure and cholesterol and showed early signs of irregular heart beats and diabetes. By the time their NFL careers are over these NFL line men their arteries, heart, and insulin blood glucose levels are threatening their lives.

If Vickers can play at 285 pounds, when he retires he should have no problem dropping down to 245-235 pounds to take him into his Golden Years.

There are PLENTY of other jobs he/they can do. It's his/their choice to play in the NFL.

hamrob
05-14-2011, 09:34 AM
285 lbs, is a Bruce Smith sized DE...in my opinion. 285 lbs at DT gets blown up by 310 lbs guards.

Since we have Ayers, Doom and now Beils all around 260 lbs...maybe he's looking for a guy that can play both DT in certain packages and DE in others. That would be my guess. He'd play DE on running plays and DT on passing plays...where they want a slasher.

TXBRONC
05-14-2011, 11:26 AM
285 lbs, is a Bruce Smith sized DE...in my opinion. 285 lbs at DT gets blown up by 310 lbs guards.

Since we have Ayers, Doom and now Beils all around 260 lbs...maybe he's looking for a guy that can play both DT in certain packages and DE in others. That would be my guess. He'd play DE on running plays and DT on passing plays...where they want a slasher.

The Titans also run a 4-3 and they have two or three defenisve tackles that are right round 285lbs or less.

Northman
05-14-2011, 11:39 AM
According to his interview on The Ticket (http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=737&f=77295), Vickerson implied that he just shed the
body fat and wants now to add a few pounds of genuine muscle, although he's
not interested in going clear back up to where he was. That was the impression
I got from it, anyway, in so many words.

That makes sense. Quickness and leverage are more important than sheer mass.
Otherwise, they could just get Jamal back in and plunk him down in the middle.

-----

Not really the same thing. Jamal was damaged goods and not near the quality player he was when he was healthy. While you dont want to be "out of shape" having mass is a good thing when trying to control the run game. The way it sounds Vick sounds like he is going to be a pass rusher and not a run stopper. Either way, i doubt he will be a difference maker as i still see major question marks at DT.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-14-2011, 11:41 AM
Let's take a look at starting 4-3 DTs this past year, shall we?

2010 Top 10 Defense's that utilize a 4-3 Defense:


Chicago Bears:

Left Defensive Tackle M. Toeaina 308 lbs
Right Defensive Tackle A. Adams 310 lbs
----------------------------------------------------------

Philadelphia Eagles

Left Defensive Tackle M. Patterson 300 lbs
Right Defensive Tackle A. Dixon 322 lbs
------------------------------------------------------------

Minnesota Vikings

Left Defensive Tackle P. Williams 317 lbs
Right Defensive Tackle K. Williams 311 lbs
-----------------------------------------------------------

New Orleans Saints

Left Defensive Tackle S. Ellis 307 lbs
Right Defensive Tackle R. Ayodele 318 lbs


So where are these sub 300 lb DTs? If anyone thinks that Fox is either happy about or even encouraged Vickerson to cut weight to 285 when we're already short at the DT position, you're fooling yourselves.

Did everyone forget how to build a defense or something? A 285 lb DT is an invitation for Jamal Charles and Darren McFadden to put up career numbers this year.

Superchop 7
05-14-2011, 11:45 AM
285 is too light, he needs to put on some weight.

TXBRONC
05-14-2011, 12:18 PM
Not really the same thing. Jamal was damaged goods and not near the quality player he was when he was healthy. While you dont want to be "out of shape" having mass is a good thing when trying to control the run game. The way it sounds Vick sounds like he is going to be a pass rusher and not a run stopper. Either way, i doubt he will be a difference maker as i still see major question marks at DT.

There is thought that putting J. Williams in a 4-3 help him to be more productive. I'm not so sure of that because I just don't think there is much left in his tank. I don't think switch in scheme is going to a "fountain of youth" of sorts for a 35 year old defensive tackle who has had knee problems. Maybe it will help but I would have to see it to believe it.

I'm not going to get concerned about Vickerson's weight. What's most important is Fox and Allen finding a way to put Vickerson in a position to be productive. He's doesn't have to be a world beater he just has to be solid.

TXBRONC
05-14-2011, 12:20 PM
Let's take a look at starting 4-3 DTs this past year, shall we?

2010 Top 10 Defense's that utilize a 4-3 Defense:


Chicago Bears:

Left Defensive Tackle M. Toeaina 308 lbs
Right Defensive Tackle A. Adams 310 lbs
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Philadelphia Eagles

Left Defensive Tackle M. Patterson 300 lbs
Right Defensive Tackle A. Dixon 322 lbs
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Minnesota Vikings

Left Defensive Tackle P. Williams 317 lbs
Right Defensive Tackle K. Williams 311 lbs
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New Orleans Saints

Left Defensive Tackle S. Ellis 307 lbs
Right Defensive Tackle R. Ayodele 318 lbs


So where are these sub 300 lb DTs? If anyone thinks that Fox is either happy about or even encouraged Vickerson to cut weight to 285 when we're already short at the DT position, you're fooling yourselves.

Did everyone forget how to build a defense or something? A 285 lb DT is an invitation for Jamal Charles and Darren McFadden to put up career numbers this year.

All of Tennesse's defensive tackles are sub 300 lbs fwiw.

Northman
05-14-2011, 12:32 PM
All of Tennesse's defensive tackles are sub 300 lbs fwiw.

And ranked 20th in the league vs the run. Not sure where you were going with that mate.

TXBRONC
05-14-2011, 01:03 PM
And ranked 20th in the league vs the run. Not sure where you were going with that mate.

What I was trying get across is that even with such small defensive line they registered 40 sacks and 17 interceptions. Both of those stats ranked in the top five iirc. I don't how they finished up but at the time we faced them they had number one ranked red zone defense in the League.