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Ravage!!!
05-08-2011, 03:52 PM
Pressure Point: Is Knowshon a No. 1?


By Matt Williamson
Scouts Inc.


A weekly look at a player whose performance must improve in 2011.

Surprisingly, the Broncos did not address the running back position in the draft, and we all know that coach John Fox wants to run the ball plenty. Maybe the Broncos will make a strong play for a runner in free agency -- DeAngelo Williams certainly would make a lot of sense. But landing Williams isn't a sure thing, and that leaves Knowshon Moreno as the clear-cut No. 1 running back in ...

(for rest of story)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6486034

Ravage!!!
05-08-2011, 03:53 PM
He doesn't have a niche. Last year, Moreno rushed for more than 100 yards twice -- including a 161-yard effort against Kansas City. But other than those two games, he eclipsed 60 yards on the ground only once.

yeup yeup

Dreadnought
05-08-2011, 04:08 PM
No. He is yet another point of weakness. He isn't the weakest link on the roster, but that says more about how drastically our roster was destroyed by McDaniels than it does about Moreno.

broncohead
05-08-2011, 06:28 PM
I don't think he'll ever be a great RB but with better blocking and playcalling he should be solid

atwater27
05-08-2011, 08:04 PM
certainly not worth a 1st round pick.

SpringsBroncoFan
05-08-2011, 08:44 PM
Williamson needs to hit the gossip circuit for more info...

DWill was secretly adopted by Fox, I heard it on the grapevine, I swear!!! :)

DeAngelo will be a Bronco!!!

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-08-2011, 09:06 PM
I think Moreno is a good RB, but I'm apparently in the minority.

bcbronc
05-08-2011, 09:16 PM
If Moreno can stay healthy, and the OL can develop some chemistry, he'll be plenty good for us. May never be a 1500 yard back, but 1000 yards rushing and 300+ receiving with double digit total TDs is what I'm expecting this year.

zbeg
05-08-2011, 10:51 PM
I think Moreno is a good RB, but I'm apparently in the minority.

I agree. He was getting hit behind the LOS an awful lot last year, so it was hard to tell how good he could be - no running back is going to be successful when the run blocking is non-existent.

Sure, he might be mediocre, or he might be the next Emmitt Smith. We just don't really have any way to know, because he was never given any chance to really show what he could do. The run blocking was abysmal for most of last season, and Moreno was a victim of that.

Maybe he does have first round talent, maybe not. We don't have enough information to make any sort of conclusion at this point. I have seen him do a few impressive things the few times the offensive line accidentally blocked someone, but there's no way to tell if he can do so consistently or not.

Ravage!!!
05-08-2011, 10:59 PM
He can't just rush for 100yrds in 2 games (an never going over 60 yrds in a game other than those two) and it be the offensive line. Thats the EASY excuse that people want to give. The line in Chicago was worse.

I've been pretty critical of Moreno, but the last few games have made me want to give him some credit. However, he's not worth a 1st roudn pick (I don't think ANY Rb is worth a 1st roudn pick, especially one of Moreno's level)... and will never be an every down back....... which proves why he wasn't worth the first round pick. He's slow, and he doesn't hve good vision.

I had high hopes to have a high round RB since we've never had one... but I'm now back to believing its NEVER EVER worth taking a RB in the 1st.

tomjonesrocks
05-08-2011, 11:10 PM
Absolutely not.

Remember a play last year against the Chiefs--where Moreno got outside with 3 blockers around him. Should have been a very long gain (the announcers excitedly said "and he has an entourage!). About one second later one of the said blockers totally missed an approaching Chief defender and down Moreno quickly went.

Felt at that time 85% of the starting RBs in the league take it to the house on that play. As soon as one defender is headed his way the play is over.

Moreno is a warm body at RB. If he were a 5th rounder or something I wouldn't be so pissed, but to have burned an early first on him is pretty disappointing. Was November 2010 before his first 100-yard game.

bcbronc
05-09-2011, 12:00 AM
He can't just rush for 100yrds in 2 games (an never going over 60 yrds in a game other than those two) and it be the offensive line. Thats the EASY excuse that people want to give. The line in Chicago was worse.

way too simplistic an analysis. too many factors go into creating 100 yard rushers, not the least of which are system and game situation. when you're in a pass happy offense on a four win team, you're not going to dazzle with your rushing statistics.

Moreno looked like a rookie his rookie year. traditionally RBs are drop and play, especially first rounders. But it's not universal. I mean last year a lot of people were willing to write D McFadden off, now he's voted top 100 player in the league by his peers. Moreno did lead his rookie class in rushing yards.

his second year was all sorts of things. the aforementioned system/game situation, being injured, no chemistry on the OL, no FB, a QB teams dared to stretch the field, etc. As the situation in front of him stabilized, he predictably looked better as a runner.



I've been pretty critical of Moreno, but the last few games have made me want to give him some credit. However, he's not worth a 1st roudn pick (I don't think ANY Rb is worth a 1st roudn pick, especially one of Moreno's level)... and will never be an every down back....... which proves why he wasn't worth the first round pick.

I might agree with not taking a RB in the first, mostly because they tend to have short shelf lives. But that aside, he was the consensus best RB of his draft year and was taken about where he was predicted.

also don't see why you'd say he'll never be an every down back. He's still got untapped pass catching ability imo and certainly has the versatility to be a three-down back. Not that I think he'll be a 300 touch back, but he can be used in downs 1-4, short yardage or long. At least potentially, we still have to see if he can put together a healthy season.


He's slow, and he doesn't hve good vision.

don't agree. he's not a burner, but he's fast enough. but it's the vision part I disagree most with. We've only seen glimpses so far, but imo the game started to slow down a bit for him the last half or so of the season. I think he's got the kind of vision that finds seams to turn a 1 yard run into a 3 yarder, or a 3 yarder into a 5.


Absolutely not.

Remember a play last year against the Chiefs--where Moreno got outside with 3 blockers around him. Should have been a very long gain (the announcers excitedly said "and he has an entourage!). About one second later one of the said blockers totally missed an approaching Chief defender and down Moreno quickly went.

Felt at that time 85% of the starting RBs in the league take it to the house on that play. As soon as one defender is headed his way the play is over.

Moreno is a warm body at RB. If he were a 5th rounder or something I wouldn't be so pissed, but to have burned an early first on him is pretty disappointing. Was November 2010 before his first 100-yard game.

I don't recall the play so can't say for certain, but where I come from we expect three blockers to be able to handle one defender.

Ravage!!!
05-09-2011, 01:00 AM
Call it simplistic all you want. RBs that don't rush for over 60 yrds in a game, but twice, have shown that they aren't home-run material..... period.

I've seen plenty of him to feel pretty justified in the belief that Moreno is NOT an every down RB, and absolutely is not fast enough to be the every down back. He's slow, and when you are slow, you won't get the touches.

This "chemistry" with the OL and system is WAyyy over rated for RBs. After all, we see rookies allllll the time make big impacts for teams when they don't have "chemistry" either. RB is the easiest position to trans from NCAA to the NFL.

bcbronc
05-09-2011, 01:08 AM
Call it simplistic all you want. RBs that don't rush for over 60 yrds in a game, but twice, have shown that they aren't home-run material..... period.

you don't have to be home-run material to be effective.


I've seen plenty of him to feel pretty justified in the belief that Moreno is NOT an every down RB, and absolutely is not fast enough to be the every down back. He's slow, and when you are slow, you won't get the touches.

sure. if you haven't done it by the end of your second pro season, you're never going to do it.


This "chemistry" with the OL and system is WAyyy over rated for RBs. After all, we see rookies allllll the time make big impacts for teams when they don't have "chemistry" either. RB is the easiest position to trans from NCAA to the NFL.

I'm not talking about chemistry between the RB and the OL, i'm just talking about the OL. Clady missed last offseason, Beadles played a couple different positions as a rookie, Walton is a rookie, Kuper in and out of the line-up, Harris in and out of the line-up. There's maybe three backs in history that didn't need holes to run through...agreed Moreno isn't one of them.

Ravage!!!
05-09-2011, 01:16 AM
As I've said... you are welcome to your opinion. But you have to have either speed or power to be "effective" as a starter in this league and Moreno is definitely not a power back, and isn't fast enough to be a home run hit. That means he's a tweener. A tweener is NOT a starter, but a role playing back. Of course you can be "effective" as a role playing RB.. but Moreno is not starting caliber.

Its ok that we see it differently.. but you aren't going to change my mind simply because you beat the drum of how "effective" he can be and you THINK he'll get it done. As of right now, he absolutely has NOT gotten it done, no matter how many excuses we make for him.

I liked what I saw from him at the end of the year. I like his energy and his enthusiasm, and what appears to be a "never quit" mentality. So I certainly have an open mind to him. But as of right now, I just don't see him as ever being "the guy."

WARHORSE
05-09-2011, 01:43 AM
Name the RB that thrived in the Patriots offense.

Even Antoine Smith only had 1100 plus yards rushing to go with about `13 TDs in their superbowl win over the rams.


That offense is not made for runningbacks, and I believe if given a traditional running offense, Knowshon will fare better.

FanInAZ
05-09-2011, 02:04 AM
Name the RB that thrived in the Patriots offense.

Even Antoine Smith only had 1100 plus yards rushing to go with about `13 TDs in their superbowl win over the rams.


That offense is not made for runningbacks, and I believe if given a traditional running offense, Knowshon will fare better.

The Patriots have Tom Brady at QB & the Colts have Payton Manning. These are the only two teams in the history of the NFL that I'm aware of that have won a SB, or league championship prior to the SBs, without a strong running game. We later found out that the Patriots were cheating back then. So the only team to win a SB without a strong running game and without cheating has only done it once.

zbeg
05-09-2011, 03:28 AM
The Patriots have Tom Brady at QB & the Colts have Payton Manning. These are the only two teams in the history of the NFL that I'm aware of that have won a SB, or league championship prior to the SBs, without a strong running game. We later found out that the Patriots were cheating back then. So the only team to win a SB without a strong running game and without cheating has only done it once.

I think that used to be true, but not anymore. The 2001 Bucs had the 27th ranked rushing offense, the 2008 Steelers were ranked 23rd, and we just saw the Packers win a Super Bowl with the 22nd ranked rushing offense in the NFL.

Even if you throw out the 2003 Patriots (27th), and the 2006 Colts (18th), of the seven Super Bowls won by non-Patriots/non-Colts teams since Denver's win over the Falcons, three of them were won by a team in the bottom half of the league in rushing.

BroncoStud
05-09-2011, 06:57 AM
Moreno dances too much behind the line and he lacks top-end speed at the position, but he has good hands and is effective at times running between the tackles.

I think he is a servicable RB in more zone-based system, not a weakness, not a strength, but someone who can get the job done. He needs more receptions out of the backfield, if we don't use his hands to our advantage then he is a wasted pick.

SOCALORADO.
05-09-2011, 08:44 AM
Moreno.
Slow
Poor Vision
Always injured
Slow

D-Will.
Super fast
Incredible vision
Solid blocker
Able to break tackles
Injury concern
Blazing speed
Elusive
Pro-Bowl level talent
Really fast
Game changer
Can run fast
Speed Kills

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-09-2011, 09:34 AM
Name the RB that thrived in the Patriots offense.

Even Antoine Smith only had 1100 plus yards rushing to go with about `13 TDs in their superbowl win over the rams.


That offense is not made for runningbacks, and I believe if given a traditional running offense, Knowshon will fare better.

Cory Dillon....

BroncoJoe
05-09-2011, 09:36 AM
"dances too much behind the LOS"

Maybe, just maybe because our OL was a leaking ship? I'm not pro or con Moreno, but I'd like to see what he can do with a real coach, and a line scheme built for the run game.

SOCALORADO.
05-09-2011, 09:56 AM
"dances too much behind the LOS"

Maybe, just maybe because our OL was a leaking ship? I'm not pro or con Moreno, but I'd like to see what he can do with a real coach, and a line scheme built for the run game.

I dont think he dances too much behind the LOS.
He did however, run right up the back of his O-linemen countless times.
Impatient as a runner, but that is a common trait of a rookie.
Hes not the only rookie RB to do this.

Traveler
05-09-2011, 10:44 AM
Found this comment interesting by Mike Klis...


The two positions they didn’t attend were defensive tackle and running back. They need a starter at defensive tackle. That can only be found through trade or free agency, most likely the latter. They also need a running back to complement Knowshon Moreno. And if John Fox can lure free agent-to-be DeAngelo Williams to come join in Denver, Moreno will complement Williams.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/04/30/broncos-will-have-to-get-dt-rb-through-trade-or-free-agency/7449/


Basically saying if Fox can get DeAngelo Williams, Moreno will no longer be the starter. Correct me if I'm wrong. If Klis is to be believed, I'm glad to see Fox put pressure on Moreno to toughen up.

rcsodak
05-09-2011, 12:45 PM
RB is the easiest position to trans from NCAA to the NFL.
I disagree, rav. No HC will put a rb out there if he's going to get the qb killed. The biggest adjustment for a RB is blocking for the qb. Until they can prove that, they don't play, regardless of their speed/vision/running/catching. Especially in a "passing league".

SOCALORADO.
05-09-2011, 12:54 PM
I disagree, rav. No HC will put a rb out there if he's going to get the qb killed. The biggest adjustment for a RB is blocking for the qb. Until they can prove that, they don't play, regardless of their speed/vision/running/catching. Especially in a "passing league".
Yeah, thats Derrick Johnson DWill is blocking.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2527/3755393824_a66454817d.jpg

rcsodak
05-09-2011, 12:56 PM
Found this comment interesting by Mike Klis...



Basically saying if Fox can get DeAngelo Williams, Moreno will no longer be the starter. Correct me if I'm wrong. If Klis is to be believed, I'm glad to see Fox put pressure on Moreno to toughen up.

I guess I missed the fox quote?

As for klis' opinion, complementary can also mean side by side.....or even competing.....or better yet, being played to their strengths.

I'd rather have michael bush. He's still hungry to be a starter and is built to last.

KCL
05-09-2011, 01:02 PM
Yeah, thats Derrick Johnson DWill is blocking.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2527/3755393824_a66454817d.jpg

Looks like the QB was about to get sacked...Charles I believe was a 3rd round pick...was a back up to LJ his first season...I couldn't wait to see what he could do.

He started 9 or 10 games after LJ was benched and rushed for over 1100 yards.

Charles would have been worth a 1st round pick...IMO.

Shananahan
05-09-2011, 01:04 PM
also don't see why you'd say he'll never be an every down back. He's still got untapped pass catching ability imo and certainly has the versatility to be a three-down back. Not that I think he'll be a 300 touch back, but he can be used in downs 1-4, short yardage or long. At least potentially, we still have to see if he can put together a healthy season.
Exactly what I was going to post. Say what you want about him not being a first rounder and being slow, dinged up, etc, but Moreno is nothing if not an every-down back.

SOCALORADO.
05-09-2011, 01:08 PM
Looks like the QB was about to get sacked...Charles I believe was a 3rd round pick...was a back up to LJ his first season...I couldn't wait to see what he could do.

He started 9 or 10 games after LJ was benched and rushed for over 1100 yards.

Charles would have been worth a 1st round pick...IMO.

My point is DWill did his job! And Dehomme might have thrown a nice, fat, INT right there! LOL!

KCL
05-09-2011, 01:11 PM
My point is DWill did his job! And Dehomme might have thrown a nice, fat, INT right there! LOL!

I know...my post really wasn't about a sack...I just happen to notice
that..:D

HammeredOut
05-09-2011, 04:58 PM
Moreno is just a 3rd down change of pace back. More like a slower, watered down Matt Forte.