Has Shanny Lost the Team

[roomemp]

Do you think Shanny has lost this team? I think he actually might have or will by the end of the season. I think the players (the good ones) are thinking, ok, enough is enough with these fast starts and then fast let downs. Is it possible that Shanny is no longer a good fit for this team? Do we need new blood at the helm to go with our new young talent? I love Shanny. One of the best of all time, but even the best either retire or get fired. The events in the coming weeks I think are going to dictate the future of this organization. Mr. Bowlen is not going to settle for mediocrity. One side of me says, “Hey we knew this season was going to be rough because we are still building”. The other side says, “maybe we should bring someone new in who could bring in a whole new coaching staff” . Know I am not calling for Shanny’s head here, I am just saying is the Shanny era possibly coming to an end?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Do you think Shanny has lost this team? I think he actually might have or will by the end of the season. I think the players (the good ones) are thinking, ok, enough is enough with these fast starts and then fast let downs. Is it possible that Shanny is no longer a good fit for this team? Do we need new blood at the helm to go with our new young talent? I love Shanny. One of the best of all time, but even the best either retire or get fired. The events in the coming weeks I think are going to dictate the future of this organization. Mr. Bowlen is not going to settle for mediocrity. One side of me says, “Hey we knew this season was going to be rough because we are still building”. The other side says, “maybe we should bring someone new in who could bring in a whole new coaching staff” . Know I am not calling for Shanny’s head here, I am just saying is the Shanny era possibly coming to an end?

Mr. Bowlen has no choice but to settle for mediocrity, if, for one, injuries dictate a lot of what will happen in the remaining games. I do not believe that Shanahan is in trouble, but I think some of the players on the roster will not be on the roster next year.

[WARHORSE]

Lets look at what Shanny can control, and what he cant.

Shanahan would be snatched up quicker than a dog turd in the Royal Palace were he to be fired.

The Broncos are light in the okole..........we cant get more physical than our opponents. We need guys who can fly around, but also who can bring down a big horn by themselves. We need guys like Darrent Williams, who dont back down from going low on a dude larger than themselves.

We need some bulk on the Dline, and we also need some weight at LB, safety and corner.

Id love to bring in Asoumgha or whatever his name is to take Blys place. Bly is in the 'self preservation' mode.

[broncofaninfla]

I have faith in Shanahan. I hate what is going on too but I wouldn't want another coach out there over Shanahan. He'll regain control and get the team rolling again. that will take personnel changes and maybe even some coaching changes but you can bet changes are a comin!

[BroncoJoe]

I don't know if Shanahan has lost the team, but this team seems lost.

[LordTrychon]

Considering the fact that this team is by and large a different one than that of just a few seasons ago, it's not like they just don't feel the same as back when we were a Championship team.

[JKcatch724]

As long as Bowlen is the owner, Shanny will be the coach.

[Lonestar]

I think his offense is one of the best past that his usefulness IN DEN is less than desired.. for that matter needed..

Right now it is the Offense that is causing the biggest issue coughing up the ball when we should be scoring with it..

He does not have a clue about bringing a decent I repeat decent defense to DEN. I'm not talking about great defense I'd be happy with decent and a great O.

right now with all the talent on this offensive squad we should be 7-0.. scoring 45 points a game..

time for PAT to step in and take the D away from mikeys purview IMHO..

[underrated29]

No he has not lost this team. Last year this same stupid question was asked (not calling you stupid, its valid ? i suppose) and i said the same thing.

NO- this is his team and they will ride or die for shanny. Jay is the leader of the whole team and he will do as shanny asks, to the T. He resurected a hopeless team in a year and a half. We rebuilt strong enough to make a playoff push. Next year most feel we are going to really start our run. I think the players know this. The rest of the league does.

Once torain comes in and pimps our run game. (hopefully, but i think so.) Our offense will not be stopped. NO team wants to face our O when we dont turn the ball over. We will not turn it over forever, the problem will be fixed! And teams know that. Our weakness is defense. Get us a S, an excellent pass rusher, a MLB adeqaute, and another corner. Watch the F out.

Everyteam has ups and downs, our downs are like taking a nap whilst most teams are down for years.

I wonder what people who question this (not saying you, just everyone in general) will say the next two years???

[LRtagger]

NO team wants to face our O when we dont turn the ball over. We will not turn it over forever, the problem will be fixed! And teams know that. Our weakness is defense. Get us a S, an excellent pass rusher, a MLB adeqaute, and another corner. Watch the F out.


That is the only problem on O, but fixing it is not as easy as just saying "oh lets fix our fumbling", otherwise we would have fixed it after the KC game. Hopefully Shanny doesnt give these guys the typical BYE week time off and gets them into practice to work on ball control and tackling, but I wont hold my breath for that. From what I hear Dove Valley has turned softer than melted Dove Chocolate.

Thats all 60% of the rest of the league needs to put them over the top, too. All we have needed the past couple years is a couple players on defense. The problem is, all the guys we pick up that we think will fix us, don't. I am hopeful that we will not end up like the Chargers, trying to find that one solution before our window closes on Offense, but it is easier said than done (just ask Dallas, Chicago, San Diego, Philly, etc).

I don't want to be a negative nancy, but this team has an uphill battle coming. We will find out a lot about how we handle adversity and I think a lot of guys will make or break their jobs as a Bronco by the way they handle the second half of the season. Do we have the character players and staff to turn this thing around? We will see. Despite my negative attitude right now I will still be sporting my Cutler jersey on Sundays and will be at the Atlanta game until the clock reads 0:00 in the 4th no matter the score.

[underrated29]

well so far we have completed 4 games where turnovers werent disasterous for us. Only the last 3. So as far as i see it, yes its a quite easy fix. Marshall stepped up his part, and hall stepped down his. I dont think too many more of our players are going to step down this. Especially with the bye week. Thats 2 whole weeks of shanny ripping ass apart for turnovers.

Shanny HATES turnovers. I would not be surprised to see the next person regardless who it is (besides jay, cuz ramsey is hurt, and the other just sucks too.) to get benched.

I can hear him right now saying. If you catch/ run with the ball for 2 yards and have to go down or risk the ball, you go down. We are going to put the diapers back on you kids. You dont make moves after the catch, you dont throw a pass with a man open somehwere else. If the ball pops out, even if the D doesnt recover you butts in the shower.

Shanny would rather have 10, 3 and outs, than drives with fumbles and INTS.

This i am 100% confident wil get fixed real quick. Maybe the miami game, but after that its on. Play or sit.

winning will be harder now, with champ out.... So we have dre and paymah? or JMFW as corner #2?

[LRtagger]

I hope Shanny attacks it that way.

[shank]

the defensive problems are the main thing that can be traced back to coaching, and shanny might play a role in why we are bad on that side of the ball, but it's hard to tell how much of the terrible scheme is on slow and how much control shanny still holds on the D. the 3-4 experiment is SO stupid :tsk:

but on offense our struggles aren't tracable back to shanny IMO. the playcalling has been good with bates at the wheel, our offensive struggles fall on the shoulders of our players. fumbles are not the coaches fault. interceptions are not the coaches fault... they are execution problems.

could we toughen up practices? yes, and that may help with the fumbles, but do you really need to pound it into NFL players heads to hang on to the damned ball?

our defense seems to completely lack any competitive element. it seems like the only fire i have seen on defense this year has been from champ, DJ, nate, and marcus thomas (at times). everyone else seems to just be going through the motions most of the time, which is sad. is that shanny's fault? or the fact that they felt good about the scheme they entered the season with, made a couple of errors, and then totally switched to a 3-4? forget season to season continuity... forget DC continuity... for the last few seasons we haven't even maintained any defensive continuity THROUGHOUT the season... ridicuous, but is that shanny? you may say he wants a 'yes-man' running his defense, but i guarantee you he doesn't want to field a laughable defensive squad.

our offensive players need to think long and hard about why they are losing, man up, and take care of the ball. jay needs to stop trying to make up for the last few losses by going for the big plays, and just focus on taking ONLY what the defense allows. if he can do this, the big plays will still be there, he just needs to wait for them to come to him. there is nothing wrong with long mythodical drives, in fact, they are the ideal!! everyone else needs to just take care of their job and protect the ball. we've seen this offense dominate, and how quickly turnovers kill momentum.

we've lost 3 games, but i only feel like we got beat once.

[hamrob]

I've never liked Slowick and think we can do a heck of alot better then him. We need someone who is strong minded...not just a "yes-man". Could we be playing better on defense if we had a better coach or coaches on that side of the ball. The answer is yes...but realistically...how much better?

The problem with this team (IMO) is talent. We do not have the horses to drive the cart. I'll admit, I thought the change in scheme would improve things. It didn't. As for talent, the only players we went and got were: Kou, Robertson, McCree, Boss Bailey & Manual. Out of that entire group...who really has made us better? I'd like to say Robertson...but that's a stretch. The bottom line is...we have the same talent level on defense as we did last year...even worse at Safety.

Until we bring in a higher level of talent on defense...this is what we can expect. The big question is...have the Broncos figured that out yet? Or...do they think...they can go bargain basement shopping to plug the holes?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

On the Jay Cutler show last night, Vic Lombardi ran a video after Sunday's game which was an interview with Champ in regards to the defense, and Champs words were:

"Attitudes stink out there"

[underrated29]

You know what. Besides being that that is sad.

We need a leader out there. We need someone to take charge of the defense like jay has from the offense. Right or wrong, good plays or mistakes. We need a leader to fix them. I know thats nothing new, but that comment just makes it more and more evident to me.

Nate webster is the closest thing, but he is still just playing. He fires guys up, and is electric, but there is no leadership.

Someone needs to be out there to get in peoples faces for mistakes. Make them own up. Make them cohesive, bring them together as a unit. They are all just playing, nothing is keeping them together. They are like sheep, just doing their own individual thing.


Where is our sheepherder? Who will be our sheep dog?

[NameUsedBefore]

He hasn't come close to losing the team. If he becomes like Marvin Lewis and the Bengals then you can worry. The problem isn't how much control Shanahan has, but how much the team just blows ass right now.

[shank]

On the Jay Cutler show last night, Vic Lombardi ran a video after Sunday's game which was an interview with Champ in regards to the defense, and Champs words were:

"Attitudes stink out there"

this was terrible to hear because i thought that's one thing we wouldn't have to worry about after getting rid of the 'bad eggs' from last year...

part of me actually wishes champ would have named some names or something, he has definitely earned the right IMO, and getting called out by him would definitely make me re-evaluate my play and attitude... the only problem with that would have been if he named almost the whole rest of the defense, because like i said champ, DJ, and nate are the only ones clearly giving it all they got at all times.


also, great post u29^

[Simple Jaded]

He hasn't come close to losing the team. If he becomes like Marvin Lewis and the Bengals then you can worry. The problem isn't how much control Shanahan has, but how much the team just blows ass right now.
Shanahan's control is no more an issue than it was a decade ago.

I've always been able to deal with the personnel mistakes (I find that bitching about it works wonders for me) just so long as Shanahan remains HC, and since I had realistic expectations of this season, I've seen nothing that would change my mind. If the Coach and The GM are a package deal, I'll take it.

As far as him losing this team, that is somewhat overrated imo, this isn't the NBA, if he's lost somebody he can cut him. And there just aren't many players worth putting up with the bullshit, especially on defense.

Besides, it's not the lack of effort that sticks out to me (though there seems an issue late in the blowout loses), it's the lack of talent. Who cares if he loses some of these guys? They're scrubs!

Personally, I don't think you have to worry about the offensive side of the ball, nor do you have to worry about the best players on defense......DJ Williams is bought and paid for, and I just can't see Elvis Dumervil giving anything less than 100%.

The only one I'd worry about is Champ Bailey, his window of opportunity is beginning to close, but if Shanahan can somewhat replicate the 06 and 08 offensive draft success on defense in 09 and 2010 AND make some noise in free agency, Bailey will be fine. Either way, you know your getting everything Bailey's got to give.

The rest are either too old, too insignificant or both. This is a none issue, and the people that bring it up (Radio/Newspaper honks) know it......

[roomemp]

No he has not lost this team. Last year this same stupid question was asked (not calling you stupid, its valid ? i suppose) and i said the same thing.

NO- this is his team and they will ride or die for shanny. Jay is the leader of the whole team and he will do as shanny asks, to the T. He resurected a hopeless team in a year and a half. We rebuilt strong enough to make a playoff push. Next year most feel we are going to really start our run. I think the players know this. The rest of the league does.

Once torain comes in and pimps our run game. (hopefully, but i think so.) Our offense will not be stopped. NO team wants to face our O when we dont turn the ball over. We will not turn it over forever, the problem will be fixed! And teams know that. Our weakness is defense. Get us a S, an excellent pass rusher, a MLB adeqaute, and another corner. Watch the F out.

Everyteam has ups and downs, our downs are like taking a nap whilst most teams are down for years.

I wonder what people who question this (not saying you, just everyone in general) will say the next two years???

Just saying. We have a young group. Young players get discouraged and are easier to lose. Shanny, for the most part, has always coached a group of veterans so losing veterans is really hard for a coach the caliber of Shanny. The only reason why I brought this up is because Champ mentioned in the post game interview something about the team playing uninspired. Most people, including myself, say it is the players that should be held responsible for not playing inspired. Some might say it is the coach's responsibility to motivate his team and to set the tone.

By the way, I hope in two years, when we win the Super Bowl, someone bumps this thread and calls me dumb for even bringing this up :laugh:

[MileHighWrath]

It gets really old when people question the coach and whether he should go or not because of a few losses, some horrible ones no doubt (KC, NE). On the heals of an embarrassing Monday night loss and we get the inevitable " Shanny must go" or similar suggestions. It's narrow sighted and strongly suggests that the coach is ultimately responsible for everything, EVERYTHING that happens on the field. While he is ultimately responsible for a great deal that goes on, he is NOT on the field playing the game.

Just FYI:
Shanny didn't turn the ball over 5 times, Shanny didn't smash Cutler's finger on the first snap of the game, Shanny didn't injure Champ's groin (Moss was invisible until then), etc. etc.

Prior to all the unraveling that occurred Monday night the O was moving the ball at will, the D was bending, not breaking (which is all we can ask this year) and should there have been no turn overs the Broncos could have easily been up 21-10 at half time. Who knows what happens after that.

I understand the frustration especially when the Broncos come out of the gate so strongly but the answer is NOT to fire one of the best coaches in the game. Who do you want to replace him? Besides MAYBE Cowher, there is NO ONE OUT THERE BETTER. Everyone loves to say Shanny hasn't won anything without Elway, so freaking what? Elway never won anything without Shanny. What's the freakin point? How many SB did MArino win with Shula or visa versa? Does that mean Shula sucked? That's all crap. Mike Shannahan is an outstanding football coach and the Denver Broncos are damn fortunate to have him wrapped up for life. Fire him and we could so easily begin a rotating door of coach after coach after coach after coach, looking for the right guy, the right fit, the right philosophy, style, attitude, technique, blah blah blah blah. Personally, I'll take the guy that coached two QBs into the Hall of Fame to guide the career of one Jay Cutler.

Just keep Shanny and give this YOUNG team an opportunity to grow under a guy that has proven more than once, more than twice, that he knows how to get a football team to the promised land.

Take the good with the bad, celebrate victories but keep your head when the inevitable loss rears it's ugly one. This is football buttercup and you don't replace HOF candidate coaches because of a few tough losses.

... long live Mike Shannahan.

[Dean]

Do you think Shanny has lost this team? I think he actually might have or will by the end of the season. I think the players (the good ones) are thinking, ok, enough is enough with these fast starts and then fast let downs. Is it possible that Shanny is no longer a good fit for this team? Do we need new blood at the helm to go with our new young talent? I love Shanny. One of the best of all time, but even the best either retire or get fired. The events in the coming weeks I think are going to dictate the future of this organization. Mr. Bowlen is not going to settle for mediocrity. One side of me says, “Hey we knew this season was going to be rough because we are still building”. The other side says, “maybe we should bring someone new in who could bring in a whole new coaching staff” . Know I am not calling for Shanny’s head here, I am just saying is the Shanny era possibly coming to an end?


The short answer is NO. The more in depth answer is hell no.

At the beginning of the year many people were sure that the Broncos would have a loosing season. Now, while still leading the AFC-west, suddenly Mike Shanahan has lost control of the team. :confused:

The guys with the torches are yelling to have him burnt at the stake.

Message boards reflect the human condition and they are a constant source of vaudevillian entertainment. Certainly we should fire the coach with the second best record for wins by an active coach. After all, he had his second loosing season last year and our unrealistic expectations after the first three games have been not been met.

Let's fire someone and everything will be cured. Fire Shanahan, the bum. Fire the entire coaching staff. Fire the cheerleaders. Fire Bowlen. Fire the security guard. Fire the stats guys. Fire the commisioner. Fire the president. . . I guess that we are about to fulfill this one. :coffee:

[jrelway]

if shanny goes, this team goes, for a few years. i dont question shannys leadership skills or how to hold a team together. as soon as this team cuts ties with shanny, i bet you anything another team comes and swoops him up with a quickness.

[Lonestar]

if shanny goes, this team goes, for a few years. i dont question shannys leadership skills or how to hold a team together. as soon as this team cuts ties with shanny, i bet you anything another team comes and swoops him up with a quickness.


if they did hopefully he will get the same deal as he has here total control and that means one less team we have to worry about down the line as the defense will be a total mess.

He is a great offensive mind if he has a great QB beyond that no real playoff wins with out one..

[Slick]

Shanahan's control is no more an issue than it was a decade ago.

I've always been able to deal with the personnel mistakes (I find that bitching about it works wonders for me) just so long as Shanahan remains HC, and since I had realistic expectations of this season, I've seen nothing that would change my mind. If the Coach and The GM are a package deal, I'll take it.

As far as him losing this team, that is somewhat overrated imo, this isn't the NBA, if he's lost somebody he can cut him. And there just aren't many players worth putting up with the bullshit, especially on defense.

Besides, it's not the lack of effort that sticks out to me (though there seems an issue late in the blowout loses), it's the lack of talent. Who cares if he loses some of these guys? They're scrubs!

Personally, I don't think you have to worry about the offensive side of the ball, nor do you have to worry about the best players on defense......DJ Williams is bought and paid for, and I just can't see Elvis Dumervil giving anything less than 100%.

The only one I'd worry about is Champ Bailey, his window of opportunity is beginning to close, but if Shanahan can somewhat replicate the 06 and 08 offensive draft success on defense in 09 and 2010 AND make some noise in free agency, Bailey will be fine. Either way, you know your getting everything Bailey's got to give.

The rest are either too old, too insignificant or both. This is a none issue, and the people that bring it up (Radio/Newspaper honks) know it......

Good post, but I'm tired of dealing with the personnel mistakes. :lol: Every couple seasons we spend time paying people like Henry, Walker, Adams, etc., good money to underperform and still be stuck paying them after we cut them. It forces us to sign guys like Boss Bailey or Niko instead of more talented and expensive FA's.

My expectations we not high this season, but they grew after the good start we had. The bottom line is ultimately Shanahan is responsible for the whole team, all phases. I'm not sure if I like the lifetime contract he seems to have with Bowlen. Sometimes I wish we had someone else buying the groceries but I'd still like Shanahan to cook. copyright Bill Parcells

[broncophan]

Not sure if he has lost this team.................imo.....players making millions of dollars.......shouldn't be "lost"......esp. with a well-respected coach like Shanahan.

But no way should people think Shanahan's job is safe....

another 7-9 season this year.....and imo......Shanahan will be gone.........

A new coach....imo would not be good esp. with a young qb like Cutler.....the last thing that poor kid needs is another new offense to learn........he still needs 2 or 3 years to learn the current offense...

[LRtagger]

It gets really old when people question the coach and whether he should go or not because of a few losses, some horrible ones no doubt (KC, NE). On the heals of an embarrassing Monday night loss and we get the inevitable " Shanny must go" or similar suggestions. It's narrow sighted and strongly suggests that the coach is ultimately responsible for everything, EVERYTHING that happens on the field. While he is ultimately responsible for a great deal that goes on, he is NOT on the field playing the game.

Just FYI:
Shanny didn't turn the ball over 5 times, Shanny didn't smash Cutler's finger on the first snap of the game, Shanny didn't injure Champ's groin (Moss was invisible until then), etc. etc.

Prior to all the unraveling that occurred Monday night the O was moving the ball at will, the D was bending, not breaking (which is all we can ask this year) and should there have been no turn overs the Broncos could have easily been up 21-10 at half time. Who knows what happens after that.

I understand the frustration especially when the Broncos come out of the gate so strongly but the answer is NOT to fire one of the best coaches in the game. Who do you want to replace him? Besides MAYBE Cowher, there is NO ONE OUT THERE BETTER. Everyone loves to say Shanny hasn't won anything without Elway, so freaking what? Elway never won anything without Shanny. What's the freakin point? How many SB did MArino win with Shula or visa versa? Does that mean Shula sucked? That's all crap. Mike Shannahan is an outstanding football coach and the Denver Broncos are damn fortunate to have him wrapped up for life. Fire him and we could so easily begin a rotating door of coach after coach after coach after coach, looking for the right guy, the right fit, the right philosophy, style, attitude, technique, blah blah blah blah. Personally, I'll take the guy that coached two QBs into the Hall of Fame to guide the career of one Jay Cutler.

Just keep Shanny and give this YOUNG team an opportunity to grow under a guy that has proven more than once, more than twice, that he knows how to get a football team to the promised land.

Take the good with the bad, celebrate victories but keep your head when the inevitable loss rears it's ugly one. This is football buttercup and you don't replace HOF candidate coaches because of a few tough losses.

... long live Mike Shannahan.


True on all accounts, BUT Shanny DID appoint the dumbass Slowik as the head of this Peefense. He has had the final say in the last 5 drafts that have yielded ONE talent on defense. He has approved and given the final OK on all defensive gameplans and schemes.

Shanny is a great COACH, but a terrible GM. He has no clue how to spot defensive talent especially after round one. It's almost as if he listens to guys like Mayock to make his picks instead of drafting guys that fit HIS ideals and qualities. He has no idea how to draft defensive players that will make an impact for our team.

He needs to relinquish all defensive decisions or at least Pat needs to bring in a defensive consultant to manage all defensive operations (like Miami has done with Parcells, but only on defense). Shanny has a great offensive scouting mind. He knows exactly what he is looking for at all offensive positions, but he has no clue on defense.

Get a talented and experienced defensive mind. Give him complete control to rebuild this defense through the draft and implement an identity to the D. Pick the players that fit what we are trying to do and give it 2-3 years to start to develop. I really think we had the right idea with Bates, but we were just impatient and gave up too fast. I think we would be at least a top 20 defense and getting better if we had kept Bates in place. TIME TO START OVER ON D.....AGAIN!

[roomemp]

True on all accounts, BUT Shanny DID appoint the dumbass Slowik as the head of this Peefense. He has had the final say in the last 5 drafts that have yielded ONE talent on defense. He has approved and given the final OK on all defensive gameplans and schemes.

Shanny is a great COACH, but a terrible GM. He has no clue how to spot defensive talent especially after round one. It's almost as if he listens to guys like Mayock to make his picks instead of drafting guys that fit HIS ideals and qualities. He has no idea how to draft defensive players that will make an impact for our team.

He needs to relinquish all defensive decisions or at least Pat needs to bring in a defensive consultant to manage all defensive operations (like Miami has done with Parcells, but only on defense). Shanny has a great offensive scouting mind. He knows exactly what he is looking for at all offensive positions, but he has no clue on defense.

Get a talented and experienced defensive mind. Give him complete control to rebuild this defense through the draft and implement an identity to the D. Pick the players that fit what we are trying to do and give it 2-3 years to start to develop. I really think we had the right idea with Bates, but we were just impatient and gave up too fast. I think we would be at least a top 20 defense and getting better if we had kept Bates in place. TIME TO START OVER ON D.....AGAIN!

Look at the trend through the years....NOT just this season. Late season fall offs........terrible personel moves. See....what I try to get around is the whole, "Love affair thing" Shanahan is a great coach.....SO WAS TOM LANDREY. What I am saying is.....is it time for the BRONCOS to move in a different direction?

[BroncoJoe]

Hire Mayock.

[LRtagger]

Look at the trend through the years....NOT just this season. Late season fall offs........terrible personel moves. See....what I try to get around is the whole, "Love affair thing" Shanahan is a great coach.....SO WAS TOM LANDREY. What I am saying is.....is it time for the BRONCOS to move in a different direction?

You can move in a different direction while still keeping Shanny to run the offense.

We need to move in a different direction as far as him being the GM and head of all football operations. He is still a good coach, but like you said his personnel decision making, especially on defense, is lacking.

[broncofaninfla]

On top of need to upgrade the talent level on defense. The defense needs a leader who leads by example by making plays and playing his heart out and EVERY single play. Somebody who is always fired up and only celebrates when we are winning or when making a game changing play. I’m tired of seeing our guys celebrate an occasional good play when we are losing or getting our *sses handed to us. That “look at me” attitude makes me sick to my stomach and it is all over our scrub defense. Champ is the only leader we have on our defense and he is out. We need another GREAT player on defense. Somebody who plays so hard he inspires good players to play better than they really are. An Al Wilson or Ray Lewis type of guy. IMO We don’t have anybody else on defense that can step up and take that role. It’s going to take drafting or signing an impact LB or DL.

[horsepig]

We can argue our opinions on this defense til the cows come home. We don't know what's really going on at Dove Valley (a pretty good moniker for how this D plays), why was Abdullah just shoved out the door? Was he really so friggin bad, actually worse than Manuel, McCree & whoever the hell Lowry is? DCs, personell, schemes, lack of continuity (even during the game, much less week-to-week or year-to-year); these are ALL Shanny's responsibilities. Discipline, fundamentals, spirit-all severely lacking on this team-all Shanny's ultimate responsibilities.

[horsepig]

As far as optimism goes, I'm afraid this defense not only has wasted Champ's talents, but it is so far below mediocre that even two great drafts will not make them competitive. A couple of above average players are not gonna be enough, maybe 5. Champ (who is on the verry end of his great career) and DJ are not enough to even make a difference, you need solid guys everywhere.

[broncophan]

Just thought I would "bump" ..........from earlier in the season....

[Tned]

Just thought I would "bump" ..........from earlier in the season....

Based on the player interviews I have heard so far, it did not sound like Shanahan had lost the locker room. It appears quite the opposite.

[roomemp]

Shanny did not lose the team.....He lost Pat Bowlen. The move had to be made. I am still upset about it though. Feels like my girlfriend just dumped me

[BroncoTech]

Ya it feels like your girlfriend just dumped me too.