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TXBRONC
05-05-2011, 08:29 AM
Q&A: Broncos' 4-3 defense will be versatile enough to look like a 3-4 defense
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 05/05/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT


Q: The strength of a 4-3 is defensive tackles who can push the pocket and defensive ends with size. Do the Broncos have anyone on their roster who can be a legitimate starter at either position? Why would the Broncos draft players best suited for a 3-4 defense and make the switch to a 4-3 defense?

A: The Broncos plan to use a 4-3 defense this year — four linemen, three linebackers. But their 4-3 will have a 3-4 flavor to it.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17993382

As Chaz mentioned not to long ago defenses they day don't spend a lot time in their base so it's surprising that Fox and Friends will try to do things like this.

SOCALORADO.
05-05-2011, 09:39 AM
As Chaz mentioned not to long ago defenses they day don't spend a lot time in their base so it's surprising that Fox and Friends will try to do things like this.

Yes, but those teams are good. They have the personnel and the luxury to be able to play like that. DEN doesnt. DEN didnt have the personnel last year with the 3-4, and now suddenly they have 4-3 hybrid personnel. Huh.
I think maybe they should just become proficient at 1 system, before thinking they are elite enough to hybrid that system.
Couple DT FAs would really help out. Just sayin...



Broncos fans may not agree, but that was the team's mind-set entering the draft. And don't forget, the Broncos are facing a multiyear job to rebuild their roster.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17993382

I thought DEN wasnt rebuilding? Multiyear job?!?! All i hear on this site again and again is Fox says DEN is going to make the playoffs and win this year.
Everyone is saying DEN is NOT rebuilding.

turftoad
05-05-2011, 09:43 AM
Yes, but those teams are good. They have the personnel and the luxury to be able to play like that. DEN doesnt. DEN didnt have the personnel last year with the 3-4, and now suddenly they have 4-3 hybrid personnel. Huh.
I think maybe they should just become proficient at 1 system, before thinking they are elite enough to hybrid that system.
Couple DT FAs would really help out. Just sayin...



I thought DEN wasnt rebuilding? Multiyear job?!?! All i hear on this site again and again is Fox says DEN is going to make the playoffs and win this year.
Everyone is saying DEN is NOT rebuilding.

Who's EVERYONE?? :confused:

Most people (fans) know that McFired depleted the Broncos roster therefor, rebuilding is a must.

BroncoJoe
05-05-2011, 09:46 AM
Yes, but those teams are good. They have the personnel and the luxury to be able to play like that. DEN doesnt. DEN didnt have the personnel last year with the 3-4, and now suddenly they have 4-3 hybrid personnel. Huh.
I think maybe they should just become proficient at 1 system, before thinking they are elite enough to hybrid that system.
Couple DT FAs would really help out. Just sayin...



I thought DEN wasnt rebuilding? Multiyear job?!?! All i hear on this site again and again is Fox says DEN is going to make the playoffs and win this year.
Everyone is saying DEN is NOT rebuilding.

No team sticks with their "base" defense for an entire game.

TXBRONC
05-05-2011, 09:59 AM
Yes, but those teams are good. They have the personnel and the luxury to be able to play like that. DEN doesnt. DEN didnt have the personnel last year with the 3-4, and now suddenly they have 4-3 hybrid personnel. Huh.
I think maybe they should just become proficient at 1 system, before thinking they are elite enough to hybrid that system.
Couple DT FAs would really help out. Just sayin...



I thought DEN wasnt rebuilding? Multiyear job?!?! All i hear on this site again and again is Fox says DEN is going to make the playoffs and win this year.
Everyone is saying DEN is NOT rebuilding.

That's Legwold's interpretation. That aside head coaches will say that so that the team doesn't idea that losing is acceptable. I called it a 4-3 not anyone not Legwold or Fox or anyone else for that matter. Joe also pointed out teams don't a lot of time in their base defense.

SOCALORADO.
05-05-2011, 10:04 AM
No team sticks with their "base" defense for an entire game.

Obviously. But to think this teams defense is as versatile as the GB packers, and that is just what DEN is gonna do next season is laughable.
These short, cheesy answers to these questions require a much more in- depth answer.
EDIT. Not your answer. The answer in the DEN post.

SOCALORADO.
05-05-2011, 10:06 AM
Who's EVERYONE?? :confused:

Most people (fans) know that McFired depleted the Broncos roster therefor, rebuilding is a must.

All's i hear from the majority of posters is that DEN is NOT rebuilding. I am not saying thats there opinion, but that is what FOX/Elway/Zanders are saying!?!?
Yes!?!?

HORSEPOWER 56
05-05-2011, 10:06 AM
No team sticks with their "base" defense for an entire game.

True, but most teams do during 1st and 2nd down - the "running" downs. Most teams don't get extremely creative and give lots of confusing looks until it's 3rd and long or after a penalty that forces the offesnse into a passing situation.

I said the same thing during the thread talking about lining up Miller at end and Ayers at tackle... if we can't stop the run, we won't see the super-secret-squirrel pass rush formation very often...

TXBRONC
05-05-2011, 10:29 AM
True, but most teams do during 1st and 2nd down - the "running" downs. Most teams don't get extremely creative and give lots of confusing looks until it's 3rd and long or after a penalty that forces the offesnse into a passing situation.

I said the same thing during the thread talking about lining up Miller at end and Ayers at tackle... if we can't stop the run, we won't see the super-secret-squirrel pass rush formation very often...

All I can say it that we don't how they'll do on first and second down. While it's in the back of mind that we didn't pursue a blue chip defensive tackle in the draft I do know that Fox has had a lot success on that side of the ball.

silkamilkamonico
05-05-2011, 11:28 AM
Rebuilding or not, we better win at least 8 games. With potential 3-4 starters in the draft, along with Dumervil coming back, there is no reason why this team can't finish at least .500. Anything less will be a disappointment.

CoachChaz
05-05-2011, 11:39 AM
I think a lot of people really need to study and understand the complexities of NFL defenses before posting.

jhildebrand
05-05-2011, 12:10 PM
There is no question this team is rebuilding. Elway used the word himself in a radio interview this past week. The media here in town, radio and print, seem relegated to the fact this team is rebuilding. That is a good thing.

As for the hybrid D 4-3 to 3-4. It will totally depend on how and when they utilize different looks. It was a disaster with Shanahan. If it is to get by this season until the team can draft/acquire more talent then so be it. If it is their plan going forward, color me skeptical. This team needs to establish an identity and I am not so sure moving between 4-3 and 3-4 is the way to do it. Again, let's wait and see how and when they utilize different looks before getting too worked up.

SOCALORADO.
05-05-2011, 12:19 PM
There is no question this team is rebuilding. Elway used the word himself in a radio interview this past week. The media here in town, radio and print, seem relegated to the fact this team is rebuilding. That is a good thing.

As for the hybrid D 4-3 to 3-4. It will totally depend on how and when they utilize different looks. It was a disaster with Shanahan. If it is to get by this season until the team can draft/acquire more talent then so be it. If it is their plan going forward, color me skeptical. This team needs to establish an identity and I am not so sure moving between 4-3 and 3-4 is the way to do it. Again, let's wait and see how and when they utilize different looks before getting too worked up.

Thanks for clarifying that.

tomjonesrocks
05-05-2011, 12:22 PM
Rebuilding or not, we better win at least 8 games. With potential 3-4 starters in the draft, along with Dumervil coming back, there is no reason why this team can't finish at least .500. Anything less will be a disappointment.

That's an absolutely ridiculous comment. My prediction is you're going to be extremely disappointed.

All these new guys, another totally new scheme, and a lockout going--even if the pieces were in place it would take time to gel.

Even with the additions this is still a pathetic team talent wise with wide open questions at virtually every position.

And I can't wait to see how Fox's "cloud of dust" offense goes with Moreno as the only horse in the stable. Good luck moving the chains with him.

TXBRONC
05-05-2011, 12:26 PM
There is no question this team is rebuilding. Elway used the word himself in a radio interview this past week. The media here in town, radio and print, seem relegated to the fact this team is rebuilding. That is a good thing.

As for the hybrid D 4-3 to 3-4. It will totally depend on how and when they utilize different looks. It was a disaster with Shanahan. If it is to get by this season until the team can draft/acquire more talent then so be it. If it is their plan going forward, color me skeptical. This team needs to establish an identity and I am not so sure moving between 4-3 and 3-4 is the way to do it. Again, let's wait and see how and when they utilize different looks before getting too worked up.

The base defense is going to be a 4-3 that we know. However they be in it if their looking mutiple receiver sets.

rcsodak
05-05-2011, 12:26 PM
Sometimes, complexity is in the eye of the beholder.
Standing a DE up/dropping him back into midcover(ayers), and u have a 34. No change in personnel, but the lb's are now open to moving up/blitzing(miller)

SOCALORADO.
05-05-2011, 12:35 PM
That's an absolutely ridiculous comment. My prediction is you're going to be extremely disappointed.

All these new guys, another totally new scheme, and a lockout going--even if the pieces were in place it would take time to gel.

And even with the additions this is still a pathetic team talent wise. There's still wide open questions at virtually every position.

You know i gotta say that just in general, there seems to be this mindset with DEN fans that the team is going 10-6 every year at this time.
I dont think Silk believes this, and if anything, hes one of the most sober posters in terms of DENs lack of talent.
However, for the past few years, posters seem to feel that DEN is on its way, and all is good, and the FO has it dailed, and not to worry, DEN is making the palyoffs!
Also, after every draft there also is a very over-the-top positive assesment of the draft picks, and that they will be immediate Pro Bowlers for years to come, and that respective position is fixed, and DEN is on its way.

And then the regular season starts.

This team was bad (at the end) under Shanahan. It was worse under Joshy, and since his firing, i am just reserving judgement on the new regime a bit and keeping a sober opinion of the moves that they make.
I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but for crying out loud, this team is terrible. DEN picked 2nd in the draft! Thats where terrible teams picks. Really bad teams.
SO we'll just have to wait and see if they make a big splash in FA, and if it pays off. But to actually think this team can run hybrid defenses with any kind of productivity, is a bit laughable. 32nd in the NFL last year. Dead last.
I am all for the hoping though!!!
Heres to hoping the Broncos win!:beer:

arapaho2
05-05-2011, 12:40 PM
i dont understand the problem....the way i see it we run a base 43...doom and ayers as de rushing the passer...with miller occasionally comeing up to the line to disrupt the qbs thinking...change the pass protection, audible out of the play...miller can then either rush the passer creating a huge issue on his side...or drop back....win win the way i see it

with doom and ayers coming from the outside and miller doing delayed blitzes in the middle...i can see alot of potential

i can also vision miller lined up behind doom...let doom rush and draw the protection while von speed rushes....

whatever you call it...miller has to be accounted for...and thats good for doom and ayers

turftoad
05-05-2011, 12:42 PM
i dont understand the problem....the way i see it we run a base 43...doom and ayers as de rushing the passer...with miller occasionally comeing up to the line to disrupt the qbs thinking...change the pass protection, audible out of the play...miller can then either rush the passer creating a huge issue on his side...or drop back....win win the way i see it

with doom and ayers coming from the outside and miller doing delayed blitzes in the middle...i can see alot of potential

whatever you call it...miller has to be accounted for...and thats good for doom and ayers

This is great for defending the pass. The run? Not so much.

arapaho2
05-05-2011, 12:45 PM
This is great for defending the pass. The run? Not so much.


its a passing league brother...von will do good against the run

SOCALORADO.
05-05-2011, 12:50 PM
This is great for defending the pass. The run? Not so much.

And whats amazing is posters just use vague responses to blow off this GLARING issue. So when OAK or KC is ripping off 250 yards a game against DEN on the ground, and the DEN defense has to stack the box, then yes, its a passing league alright, as they rip the DEN secondary to pieces with pass after pass.

TXBRONC
05-05-2011, 12:52 PM
I'm not going to assume that Fox doesn't what the hell he's doing when comes to defense.

jhildebrand
05-05-2011, 03:22 PM
You know i gotta say that just in general, there seems to be this mindset with DEN fans that the team is going 10-6 every year at this time.

Do you really believe that? :confused: I am here, on other boards, live here in Denver, talk to people constantly and I am hard pressed to find anybody who is willing to even utter 10-6 and Broncos in the same breath.

Most people seem to think this is a 5-7 win team maybe 8 if they get lucky. That's where I see them.



Also, after every draft there also is a very over-the-top positive assesment of the draft picks, and that they will be immediate Pro Bowlers for years to come, and that respective position is fixed, and DEN is on its way.

I recall McDaniels drafts being sharply criticised, and rightfully so, for his picks. I don't recall anybody proclaimin R Quinn was the next Gates, Alph was a nightmare the minute his name was called, the Tebow pick drew nasty criticisim. Shoot, Alfred Williams damn near quit broadcasting when the pick was announced.


i am just reserving judgement on the new regime a bit and keeping a sober opinion of the moves that they make.
I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but for crying out loud, this team is terrible. DEN picked 2nd in the draft! Thats where terrible teams picks. Really bad teams.

I think most people are taking a similar approach.


But to actually think this team can run hybrid defenses with any kind of productivity, is a bit laughable. 32nd in the NFL last year. Dead last.

I tend to agree. Then again, I always keep in mind the masterful job Nolan did, when by all accounts, this D wouldn't improve for 3 seasons. I can only wonder how much better their numbers would have been if Joshy just stuck to the O.

silkamilkamonico
05-05-2011, 03:49 PM
That's an absolutely ridiculous comment. My prediction is you're going to be extremely disappointed.

All these new guys, another totally new scheme, and a lockout going--even if the pieces were in place it would take time to gel.

Even with the additions this is still a pathetic team talent wise with wide open questions at virtually every position.

And I can't wait to see how Fox's "cloud of dust" offense goes with Moreno as the only horse in the stable. Good luck moving the chains with him.

It's hardly a "pathetic team". There are pieces in place. Like there are holes, there are positions that are very capable.

At the moment we have probably the worst set of DT's in the NFL. But at the same time, with Dumervil coming back and Von Miller's potential, we could possibly have one of the most dynamic tandem's of rushes off the edge.

The truth is, it doesn't matter how much talent, or lack of talent, Denver has right now. The important thing is coaching, and if the players are playing hard and buying into Fox's scheme. I just want to compete.

I could handle an 0-16 season (and I'm not even kidding) if we are within every single game and lose by a possession. That's progress in my mind. I'm sick and tired of these damn blowouts. Good, sound, fundamental organizations do not get blown out. And we have had our fair share in the NFL the last few years. Arguably more than any other organization in the NFL.

arapaho2
05-05-2011, 05:03 PM
And whats amazing is posters just use vague responses to blow off this GLARING issue. So when OAK or KC is ripping off 250 yards a game against DEN on the ground, and the DEN defense has to stack the box, then yes, its a passing league alright, as they rip the DEN secondary to pieces with pass after pass.


so your quite the expert who knows without a doubt fox doesnt know how to fix a defense?

we had glareing issues last season against the run because mcd is a total ******** concerning the defense, wink was no where near ready to run the d....specially when he had to run it accourding to josh

lets take that into consideration before you have us condemmed as the worst defense before we even have ota's

it was said all along that our dline was more suited for the 43...not the 34...maybe, just maybe fox also knows this? :coffee:

TXBRONC
05-05-2011, 06:14 PM
This is great for defending the pass. The run? Not so much.

I don't know what will but Fox knows defense. Even though we didn't get a defensive tackle I won't just assume that we're going to give 250 yards rushing week in and week out.

Lonestar
05-06-2011, 02:11 AM
At the moment we have probably the worst set of DT's in the NFL.

If you look at our signed roster you will see only vikerson As a DT.


All the rest are just here until they can leave as a FA.

Shananahan
05-06-2011, 02:38 AM
Sometimes, complexity is in the eye of the beholder.
Standing a DE up/dropping him back into midcover(ayers), and u have a 34. No change in personnel, but the lb's are now open to moving up/blitzing(miller)
This is a great, great point. Ayers' time spent at OLB could turn out to have been very useful for running hybrid fronts.

Ziggy
05-06-2011, 06:17 AM
SoCal has a lot of valid points. Denver had the 2nd pick in the draft for a reason. The overall talent base on this team is horrible. It has been for years. Denver has been building this team from the outside in for a long time, and it's been showing in the results. The Broncos have been getting bullied by physical teams for years. They lose games in the trenches, because the trenches were woefully ignored under Shanahan and McD.

I think that the plans for the defense are solid right now. The Broncos increased the speed, instincts, overall athletic ability, and awareness in the linebacking core with Miller and Irving. They seem to think that Ayers is very well suited to be a 4-3 DE, as do I. Elvis always has and always will be a liability in the run game. The way to make up for that is to surround him with fast, instinctive linebackers and run stuffing DT's. The linebackers have been taken care of. I like Vickerson at either DT spot. He can stuff the run. Two more big uglies are needed there, and the line should be fine. The DT's don't have to be stars in Fox's defense, they just need to be able to clog the middle.

IF Denver can get teams into 2nd and 3rd and long, they should be able to put some pressure on the QB, which is critical to improving a D. Allen learned under one of the most creative D coordinators in the business. I expect to see a ton of exotic blitz packages with Miller lining up all over the place. Yeah, he's a rookie, but turn on the film. The kid can turn the corner and change direction better than anyone I've seen since Derrick Thomas.

The defense will be improved through good coaching, more athleticism, speed, and creativity. How much it will be improved is the question. I believe that Miller and Irving will both be a huge addition. Moving Ayers and Vickerson back to thier natural positions will help, and the front office will get a run stuffing DT or 2 in free agency. I'd love to see Marcus Thomas re-signed along with another big ugly.

On the offensive side, the Oline should be improved simply by the fact that at least 4 of our 5 young Olineman will be returning, and the zone blocking scheme is back in. Clady, Kuper, and Beadles should excell in it. I do worry about my boy JD. I'm not sure that he has the agility to be an effective ZBS center. Having a real commitment to the running game will help. I was tired of seeing it scrapped after the first or second quarter last season. That won't happen with Fox as the head coach. I also expect them to bring in a quality starting FB, along with another talented RB.

Tebow should start, but he'll have his growing pains. Overall, the team should be much improved, but SoCal is right. The Broncos have a long ways to go to be a contender. A talent depleted roster is not going to be repaired overnight. Add in the fact that the Broncos are going to all new schemes AGAIN, and it's going to take some time folks. EFX has the right idea, but let's give them some time to do this right.

Shananahan
05-06-2011, 07:31 AM
Anybody who thinks Denver is not rebuilding doesn't know anything about football or this team. You don't get the #2, like you just said, fail defensively in every category and look to start an unproven first round pick at QB if you're not rebuilding. That said, I see many, many reasons this team could win 8 games. I don't think rebuilding needs to lower expectations to the point where another 4-12 season is predicted. I mean, as bad as they are Denver was in some tight football games with some good teams last year. Some improved defense with sounder coaching could be the difference in those situations. 8-8 is very doable. If the teams stays healthy and Tebow doesn't implode, I wouldn't be surprised by more.

TXBRONC
05-06-2011, 07:41 AM
Anybody who thinks Denver is not rebuilding doesn't know anything about football or this team. You don't get the #2, like you just said, fail defensively in every category and look to start an unproven first round pick at QB if you're not rebuilding. That said, I see many, many reasons this team could win 8 games. I don't think rebuilding needs to lower expectations to the point where another 4-12 season is predicted. I mean, as bad as they are Denver was in some tight football games with some good teams last year. Some improved defense with sounder coaching could be the difference in those situations. 8-8 is very doable. If the teams stays healthy and Tebow doesn't implode, I wouldn't be surprised by more.

IIRC there were six games that Denver had chance to win at the end.

SOCALORADO.
05-06-2011, 07:47 AM
so your quite the expert who knows without a doubt fox doesnt know how to fix a defense?

we had glareing issues last season against the run because mcd is a total ******** concerning the defense, wink was no where near ready to run the d....specially when he had to run it accourding to josh

lets take that into consideration before you have us condemmed as the worst defense before we even have ota's

it was said all along that our dline was more suited for the 43...not the 34...maybe, just maybe fox also knows this? :coffee:

I am not an expert. Look, i just call a spade a spade.
And the team was terrible last season, and posters trying to just gloss over
the obvious, glaring problems isnt gonna work this offseason.
The team was depleted in talent and yes, the coaches were terrible.
But lets stay sober this time in our observations.
I have no doubt Fox will imrove the defense, but to what degree, i dont know. Theres alot to be happy about with this draft and i am very hopeful in FA they will be active.
I like Fox too, but the whole, "Fox knows this and Fox knows that" stuff.
Nah, not this time. I am just going to have to reserve judgement until i see serious improvment and a real attempt at FA. Then we'll see.

TXBRONC
05-06-2011, 08:10 AM
I am not an expert. Look, i just call a spade a spade.
And the team was terrible last season, and posters trying to just gloss over
the obvious, glaring problems isnt gonna work this offseason.
The team was depleted in talent and yes, the coaches were terrible.
But lets stay sober this time in our observations.
I have no doubt Fox will imrove the defense, but to what degree, i dont know. Theres alot to be happy about with this draft and i am very hopeful in FA they will be active.
I like Fox too, but the whole, "Fox knows this and Fox knows that" stuff.
Nah, not this time. I am just going to have to reserve judgement until i see serious improvment and a real attempt at FA. Then we'll see.

Socal my hairy friend (:D) no one is glossing over the debacle of last season. Not drafting a defensive tackle could very easily come back and bite Denver in the ass. It's also not a given that it will boomerang on them. If they go free agency and do exactly what's been done previously (i.e. washed veteran defensive tackles) then I will be leery of the out come.

At this point there is only one poster who is on record saying they think Denver could end up with a winning record. I don't know of anyone else that has had that kind of gusto just yet. They could be right but I think it's little to early to make those kind prediction with all the pieces being in place. I feel better about this team going into this season than I have in last two years but by no means am I ready to make any kind of prediction.

WARHORSE
05-06-2011, 08:14 AM
The defense will be versatile.

We actually have some players that will allow that.


Miller can play with his hand in the dirt.

He led the NCAA in sacks in a 43 defense.

So why would he not be able to do that?


Fox brought Carolinas defense from 31st in the league to 2nd in one year.


KICK IT!

SOCALORADO.
05-06-2011, 08:20 AM
Socal my hairy friend (:D) no one is glossing over the debacle of last season. Not drafting a defensive tackle could very easily come back and bite Denver in the ass. It's also not a given that it will boomerang on them. If they go free agency and do exactly what's been done previously (i.e. washed veteran defensive tackles) then I will be leery of the out come.

At this point there is only one poster who is on record saying they think Denver could end up with a winning record. I don't know of anyone else that has had that kind of gusto just yet. They could be right but I think it's little to early to make those kind prediction with all the pieces being in place. I feel better about this team going into this season than I have in last two years but by no means am I ready to make any kind of prediction.

Man, i guess we'll just have to wait for the, "Predict the broncos record this season" thread!
Cant wait for that! :lol:

TXBRONC
05-06-2011, 08:54 AM
Man, i guess we'll just have to wait for the, "Predict the broncos record this season" thread!
Cant wait for that! :lol:

Those threads are usually a blast. :D

Shananahan
05-06-2011, 10:59 AM
At this point there is only one poster who is on record saying they think Denver could end up with a winning record. I don't know of anyone else that has had that kind of gusto just yet. They could be right but I think it's little to early to make those kind prediction with all the pieces being in place. I feel better about this team going into this season than I have in last two years but by no means am I ready to make any kind of prediction.
I just pretty much did that in this thread already, but if it needs to be spelled out: Denver could end up with a winning record, and I'd say the odds are quite favorable that happens if they stay healthy and Tebow (hopefully) plays within his current limits.

Like you just said, there were six games the team could have won. That's a winning season right there. Hell, they should have beat the team that played in the AFCCG. Denver had the Jets down to a hope and a prayer at the end of the game, and played them physical and straight-up. I thought they looked alright against Indy as well, all things considered.

Getting Dumervil back and healthy alone will turn the defense into something different than last year. Maybe Goodman doesn't play on one leg and suck all season this time? Maybe the fact that we won't be starting two rookies on the offensive line and Clady being a year removed from his injury will help them play better? Decker improves and adds another receiver to the passing game? Maybe the addition and use of a TE in the passing game for once will help the offense? Maybe John Fox really DOES know enough about defense to help a unit that has nowhere to go but up?

I can understand being realistic about the limitations of the team and its current place on the road to becoming great, but I just don't understand anybody who isn't somewhat optimistic at the same time. I refuse to believe Denver is as bad as the team it fielded last year.

TXBRONC
05-06-2011, 11:27 AM
I just pretty much did that in this thread already, but if it needs to be spelled out: Denver could end up with a winning record, and I'd say the odds are quite favorable that happens if they stay healthy and Tebow (hopefully) plays within his current limits.

Like you just said, there were six games the team could have won. That's a winning season right there. Hell, they should have beat the team that played in the AFCCG. Denver had the Jets down to a hope and a prayer at the end of the game, and played them physical and straight-up. I thought they looked alright against Indy as well, all things considered.

Getting Dumervil back and healthy alone will turn the defense into something different than last year. Maybe Goodman doesn't play on one leg and suck all season this time? Maybe the fact that we won't be starting two rookies on the offensive line and Clady being a year removed from his injury will help them play better? Decker improves and adds another receiver to the passing game? Maybe the addition and use of a TE in the passing game for once will help the offense? Maybe John Fox really DOES know enough about defense to help a unit that has nowhere to go but up?

I can understand being realistic about the limitations of the team and its current place on the road to becoming great, but I just don't understand anybody who isn't somewhat optimistic at the same time. I refuse to believe Denver is as bad as the team it fielded last year.

I guess I missed your post about making any prediction because I was referring to someone else. At that it wasn't meant to be critical.

There are reasons to be optimistic and I am hopeful. I think EFX may actually gotten the four starters that they were looking for. At the same time defensive tackle is still a question mark and even though we will be getting Dumervil back and Clady should be healthier this year as well there are two new schemes to implement so I do expect some growing pains.

Shananahan
05-06-2011, 12:20 PM
Agreed. The run defense terrifies me, and it has yet to really be addressed. I worry about Dumervil getting worn down, and runningbacks going up the middle for 20+ every carry. I just tell myself that it can't get any worse and hope the improvement elsewhere will help.

silkamilkamonico
05-06-2011, 01:40 PM
Agreed. The run defense terrifies me, and it has yet to really be addressed. I worry about Dumervil getting worn down, and runningbacks going up the middle for 20+ every carry. I just tell myself that it can't get any worse and hope the improvement elsewhere will help.

At the moment RB's will have 2 options.

Run up the middle for chunks of 20 yards, or run towards ELvis Dumervil's side for an average 6.5 ypc throughout the course of the season.

TXBRONC
05-06-2011, 01:47 PM
At the moment RB's will have 2 options.

Run up the middle for chunks of 20 yards, or run towards ELvis Dumervil's side for an average 6.5 ypc throughout the course of the season.

With upgrade of speed at linebacker I wouldn't assume that they can run at Dumervil and average 6.5 ypc. I personally think Dumervil is better against against the run than he's given credit for.

Shananahan
05-06-2011, 02:50 PM
I don't think he's necessarily a liability against the run, but I do think he's the kind of player who wears down over time. Ideally there would be somebody else there rotating in and out on some first and second downs to keep him fresh for what he does best.

SOCALORADO.
05-06-2011, 02:52 PM
With upgrade of speed at linebacker I wouldn't assume that they can run at Dumervil and average 6.5 ypc. I personally think Dumervil is better against against the run than he's given credit for.

Ask Chazz about that. See what his opinion on Doom and his complete lack of ability at stopping the run is.
:defense:

TXBRONC
05-06-2011, 03:00 PM
Ask Chazz about that. See what his opinion on Doom and his complete lack of ability at stopping the run is.
:defense:

As I said I think he's better than some people think.

GEM
05-06-2011, 04:31 PM
Yes, but those teams are good. They have the personnel and the luxury to be able to play like that. DEN doesnt. DEN didnt have the personnel last year with the 3-4, and now suddenly they have 4-3 hybrid personnel. Huh.
I think maybe they should just become proficient at 1 system, before thinking they are elite enough to hybrid that system.
Couple DT FAs would really help out. Just sayin...



I thought DEN wasnt rebuilding? Multiyear job?!?! All i hear on this site again and again is Fox says DEN is going to make the playoffs and win this year. Everyone is saying DEN is NOT rebuilding.


This was definitely said during Mike's last years, definitely said during Josh's couple of years, but I haven't heard ANYONE say it since Fox took over. :confused: