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TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 08:00 AM
Here are Broncos' strategies before the draft
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 05/03/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT

Texas A&M's Von Miller, drafted in the No. 2 slot by the Broncos, was the team's top choice at least since mid-February. The Broncos' football brain trust of John Elway, John Fox and Brian Xanders identified speed at linebacker, specifically at the strongside position, as a slightly greater need than a stalwart defensive tackle.

There never was any "late momentum" for Miller, despite so many draftniks predicting that Alabama defensive tackle Marcell Dareus would go to the Broncos at No. 2. Dareus was the Broncos' second choice. Miller was always No. 1 with them.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17978871

I encourage everyone to read the rest of the article. I know some of you wont be convinced and that's fine I respect your opinions but this article gives us all something more to chew on as to why Denver did what they did in the draft.

SOCALORADO.
05-03-2011, 08:16 AM
Well, it explains alot about how they looked at the DT position.
And like the article states most of the highly coveted DTs were gone by the time they picked at 46, and this is why it was so important to many of us to take a DT high.
Thats why it so hard to get good DTs. Even in FA. They are the most coveted players in the NFL. DEN still needs to address this glaring need, and i dont just mean through FA. Next year, they still need to find a way to draft a freakin DT.

I also like this little tidbit as well

They will add one, maybe two, defensive tackles in free agency. They also need a running back to complement Knowshon Moreno. And if Fox can lure free agent-to-be DeAngelo Williams from Carolina to rejoin him in Denver, Moreno would complement Williams.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17978871

Just glad most understand that Moreno is just a complimentary RB. Not the other way around.

Agent of Orange
05-03-2011, 08:20 AM
Klis is awful. I really doubt that they would even say SLB was a bigger need than DT. Its probably more likely they felt Miller was a safer pick while also being another need.

TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 08:24 AM
Klis is awful. I really doubt that they would even say SLB was a bigger need than DT. Its probably more likely they felt Miller was a safer pick while also being another need.

EFX said consistently speed at linebacker was a major concern. I'm trying to defend Klis maybe he said that way because they plan on putting Miller on the strong side.

Agent of Orange
05-03-2011, 08:27 AM
EFX said consistently speed at linebacker was a major concern. I'm trying to defend Klis maybe he said that way because they plan on putting Miller on the strong side.

I already said it was a need. But again, I think they felt safer with Miller and that they can better generate pass rush with him by moving him around...scheming. You wont convince me though that SLB was a greater need. This was more about Millers value in terms of how he plays and LBs being safer picks.

BTW, I wouldn't even assume that someone with the Broncos said SLB was a greater need vs Klis making that interpretation.

TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 08:31 AM
I already said it was a need. But again, I think they felt safer with Miller and that they can better generate pass rush with him by moving him around...scheming. You wont convince me though that SLB was a greater need. This was more about Millers value in terms of how he plays and LBs being safer picks.

BTW, I wouldn't even assume that someone with the Broncos said SLB was a greater need vs Klis making that interpretation.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything I'm just giving my take on it.

UnderArmour
05-03-2011, 08:37 AM
EFX said consistently speed at linebacker was a major concern. I'm trying to defend Klis maybe he said that way because they plan on putting Miller on the strong side.

The Nate Irving pick was about that but the Von Miller pick was because we felt he was the best player in the draft. If you have a guy on your board you feel is a potential future HOFer and he's there, you take him regardless of need(except Quarterback), especially with the #2 pick. That's the vibe I've gotten from the statements I've read anyways.

SOCALORADO.
05-03-2011, 08:37 AM
Klis is awful. I really doubt that they would even say SLB was a bigger need than DT. Its probably more likely they felt Miller was a safer pick while also being another need.

Safer than Dareus? Dont know about that. I think Miller was a safe pick AND! he had more potential upside down the road, and if thats the case, i agree with them.
I said it the day after the 1st round and i'll say it again. I dont have a problem with the Miller pick. Fox can outcoach anyone in the NFL in regards to LBs and i am very content with the DEN FO making Miller the next Derrick Thomas. Now get to work Fox, cause DEN sucks!

BigDaddyBronco
05-03-2011, 08:43 AM
Well, if they can get Mebane and another decent DT in FA, this defense can rebound quickly. I have my doubts that they will get the cream of the FA DT crop and we'll be looking for DT's again next year. Maybe they'll get lucky on a UFA or a cast off from another team.

That, and Miller better be an awesome player and the safeties better become starters or their whole draft strategy was a complete failure.

SOCALORADO.
05-03-2011, 08:55 AM
Well, if they can get Mebane and another decent DT in FA, this defense can rebound quickly. I have my doubts that they will get the cream of the FA DT crop and we'll be looking for DT's again next year. Maybe they'll get lucky on a UFA or a cast off from another team.

That, and Miller better be an awesome player and the safeties better become starters or their whole draft strategy was a complete failure.

The only good DT i think DEN can get is Barry Cofield. I posted ealier this year in the draft section or in a mock somewhere that Cofield could, possibly be lured away from NYG simply because they have a ton of d-line talent in NY (Gee, what a smart way to build a defense!) and that Cofield might be the odd man out simply because they are loaded and can no longer afford him. However, Cofield is a realy talented player, and he will be sought after by many teams if this does happen. DEN will overpay for him to get his services. Cofield can play anywhere on the d-line and often does. He is a disruptive force that compliments other players making those players better. He can penetrate to the QB from the DT position or hold his position and play the run stuffer. BUT! He can also go to DE and is a very good rusher. Hes the total package, not doing anything great, but everything good. Cofield would make Vickerson look like a talented DT to space eat and clog the middle against the run. Add MThomas as a rotational guy with Cofield and DEN might be onto something.

I think we all need to realize that Brandon Mebane is a pipe dream.
Carroll aint lettin him walk. Hes young, with a projected 10 year, Pro Bowl career ahead of him. Hes that good, and SEA will just match any offer more than likely. They would be insane not to do so.

BigDaddyBronco
05-03-2011, 09:18 AM
The only good DT i think DEN can get is Barry Cofield. I posted ealier this year in the draft section or in a mock somewhere that Cofield could, possibly be lured away from NYG simply because they have a ton of d-line talent in NY (Gee, what a smart way to build a defense!) and that Cofield might be the odd man out simply because they are loaded and can no longer afford him. However, Cofield is a realy talented player, and he will be sought after by many teams if this does happen. DEN will overpay for him to get his services. Cofield can play anywhere on the d-line and often does. He is a disruptive force that compliments other players making those players better. He can penetrate to the QB from the DT position or hold his position and play the run stuffer. BUT! He can also go to DE and is a very good rusher. Hes the total package, not doing anything great, but everything good. Cofield would make Vickerson look like a talented DT to space eat and clog the middle against the run. Add MThomas as a rotational guy with Cofield and DEN might be onto something.

I think we all need to realize that Brandon Mebane is a pipe dream.
Carroll aint lettin him walk. Hes young, with a projected 10 year, Pro Bowl career ahead of him. Hes that good, and SEA will just match any offer more than likely. They would be insane not to do so.
I agree with you on Coefield. I thought WalterFootball had a good write up on the FA DT's.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011DT.php

Mike Patterson is another option and their seem to be quite a few run stoppers who wouldn't give anything on the pass rush.

Like you have said, finding a good FA DT is really expensive and it's typically hard to pry one away from their former team. Contrast this to the FA safety pool and that is why so many of us were pissed about the selection of Rahim Moore.

LordTrychon
05-03-2011, 09:27 AM
What I find interesting about this is that I know I'm not the only one looking for insight into how this FO does things/will do things in the future. I miss being able to predict my own team's moves and being able to read between the lines a little.

When Elway was talking about all the top players that would be among their choices, it seemed to me that Von Miller was the one that they praised the least. They praised him, but also gave a downside to. Essentially, he said he was very good but wasn't sure how he'd fit into our scheme for 3 downs. The other players only seemed to garner praise.

To me, this says we certainly can expect a fair amount of smoke-screens in the future, despite the concerns that the new regime was being 'too open' with all their twitter interaction, etc.

I like that.

TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 09:40 AM
The Nate Irving pick was about that but the Von Miller pick was because we felt he was the best player in the draft. If you have a guy on your board you feel is a potential future HOFer and he's there, you take him regardless of need(except Quarterback), especially with the #2 pick. That's the vibe I've gotten from the statements I've read anyways.

The Miller satisfied BPA but also it satisfied two needs. They have mentioned both things.

The Irving pick like the Miller pick was BPA and IIRC he was the highest rated mike linebacker on there board. Mike linebacke is as much about smarts as it is speed.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-03-2011, 10:04 AM
The Miller satisfied BPA but also it satisfied two needs. They have mentioned both things.

The Irving pick like the Miller pick was BPA and IIRC he was the highest rated mike linebacker on there board. Mike linebacke is as much about smarts as it is speed.

Miller is kind of a "no-brainer" considering our lack of speed at LB last year, along with the premium value of a pass rusher.

I think we all have seen how one dimensional our pass rush has been the last two years....well, I should say last year it was, "zero dimensional". :laugh:


I got really tired of seeing TB's beat our LB's to the edge last year.

SOCALORADO.
05-03-2011, 10:10 AM
Miller is kind of a "no-brainer" considering our lack of speed at LB last year, along with the premium value of a pass rusher.

I think we all have seen how one dimensional our pass rush has been the last two years....well, I should say last year it was, "zero dimensional". :laugh:


I got really tired of seeing TB's beat our LB's to the edge last year.

Or run right up the gut without being touched. The Grand Canyon in there.
With Fox i dont think this will happen again to our LBs. However, a solid DT is really still needed.

nevcraw
05-03-2011, 10:11 AM
I like this draft a lot. High on character, production, work ethic, and of course talent. -- exactly the the type of cornerstone development to combat the years of talent erosion..

TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 10:33 AM
I like this draft a lot. High on character, production, work ethic, and of course talent. -- exactly the the type of cornerstone development to combat the years of talent erosion..

I thought that's what the last regime was going to bring in high character, smart, tough, and physical football players? :behindsofa:

LTC Pain
05-03-2011, 10:46 AM
I thought that's what the last regime was so to bring in high character, smart, tough, and physical football players? :behindsofa:

Boo! You'd get the "low five" button if this forum had one! :D:lol:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-03-2011, 10:52 AM
Or run right up the gut without being touched. The Grand Canyon in there.
With Fox i dont think this will happen again to our LBs. However, a solid DT is really still needed.

You'll get no argument from me. I was as shocked as anyone when we passed on a DT in the second.

rationalfan
05-03-2011, 10:56 AM
Klis is awful. I really doubt that they would even say SLB was a bigger need than DT. Its probably more likely they felt Miller was a safer pick while also being another need.

you're right. it is easier to blame a reporter you'll never interact with than to admit that you're wrong, or that your beloved team doesn't agree with your opinions.

TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 11:29 AM
Boo! You'd get the "low five" button if this forum had one! :D:lol:

Sorry, I just couldn't resist when Nev mentioned character. :laugh:

TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 11:38 AM
you're right. it is easier to blame a reporter you'll never interact with than to admit that you're wrong, or that your beloved team doesn't agree with your opinions.

Don't be to hard on him RF. It doesn't matter one iota how Klis describes it because it doesn't change anything.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-03-2011, 12:51 PM
The only good DT i think DEN can get is Barry Cofield. I posted ealier this year in the draft section or in a mock somewhere that Cofield could, possibly be lured away from NYG simply because they have a ton of d-line talent in NY (Gee, what a smart way to build a defense!) and that Cofield might be the odd man out simply because they are loaded and can no longer afford him. However, Cofield is a realy talented player, and he will be sought after by many teams if this does happen. DEN will overpay for him to get his services. Cofield can play anywhere on the d-line and often does. He is a disruptive force that compliments other players making those players better. He can penetrate to the QB from the DT position or hold his position and play the run stuffer. BUT! He can also go to DE and is a very good rusher. Hes the total package, not doing anything great, but everything good. Cofield would make Vickerson look like a talented DT to space eat and clog the middle against the run. Add MThomas as a rotational guy with Cofield and DEN might be onto something.

I think we all need to realize that Brandon Mebane is a pipe dream.
Carroll aint lettin him walk. Hes young, with a projected 10 year, Pro Bowl career ahead of him. Hes that good, and SEA will just match any offer more than likely. They would be insane not to do so.

The biggest thing I fear with Free Agents, especially guys coming off of their rookie contracts, is their work ethic after they get that first big payday. Do they keep up the intensity and what got them there or do they shut it down? Nothing pisses me off more than when a guy gets the big payday and is then unproductive. Haynesworth, Adalius Thomas, heck even Trevor Pryce got huge deals and were never the same again afterwards. You see it all the time, and that is the biggest risk with signing FA DTs instead of drafting them.

rationalfan
05-03-2011, 03:05 PM
Don't be to hard on him RF. It doesn't matter one iota how Klis describes it because it doesn't change anything.

you're right. but i find it soooo annoying when people rip on reporters, who actually talk to the people in the organization, for simply not reinforcing the opinions of people on this board.

granted, i'm in the media biz. but it's hypocritical that people spew their opinions online as fact, then rip on people who are paid to dig for and distribute facts.

TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 03:20 PM
you're right. but i find it soooo annoying when people rip on reporters, who actually talk to the people in the organization, for simply not reinforcing the opinions of people on this board.

granted, i'm in the media biz. but it's hypocritical that people spew their opinions online as fact, then rip on people who are paid to dig for and distribute facts.

Whether or not Klis has the designation right doesn't matter. The very fact that Denver took Miller and that fact that he was their pick since February says they saw linebacker as much of a concern as defensive line.

rationalfan
05-03-2011, 04:00 PM
Whether or not Klis has the designation right doesn't matter. The very fact that Denver took Miller and that fact that he was their pick since February says they saw linebacker as much of a concern as defensive line.

yeah, but my point was never about the pick. it was about people ripping on the media just because the media doesn't echo their own opinions.

Cugel
05-03-2011, 06:23 PM
Well, if they can get Mebane and another decent DT in FA, this defense can rebound quickly. I have my doubts that they will get the cream of the FA DT crop and we'll be looking for DT's again next year. Maybe they'll get lucky on a UFA or a cast off from another team.

That, and Miller better be an awesome player and the safeties better become starters or their whole draft strategy was a complete failure.

Bingo! That sums up the entire draft fiasco!

Look, the situation NEXT year is not going to be any easier than THIS year as far as finding an elite DT. There will ALWAYS be "better value" at some other position -- because unless the Broncos are drafting in the top 5 again some team is going to GRAB the top 2 DTs on the board somewhere in the top 10 picks most probably.

This year the run on QBs pushed Nick Fairley back to Detroit, but he would probably have gone in the top 8 -- and that's WITH character concerns. Without those concerns he would have gone to the Broncos at #2.

Which means the top 2 (and only really "elite") DTs in the entire draft would have gone #2 and #3.

It's getting worse and worse every year with teams reaching for the top DTs. If you have a chance to draft one you MUST take it because you probably WON'T have that chance again any time soon -- not without trading away your entire draft to move up.

I'm already predicting NEXT year's excuses when the Broncos are drafting #14 or something and there are 2 "elite DTs" on the board and both are gone by the time they pick -- so they wind up ONCE AGAIN with nothing.


"We felt that with so many other needs we didn't want to reach for a guy that maybe wasn't as good at DT just in order to get one. We explored the option of moving up for a DT but the cost would have been too much and we decided to pass. And then, by the middle of the 2nd round, none of the guys we liked was on the board." -- John Elway, April 2012

They might as well print the excuse on a card right now, and just hand them out at the 2012 draft. :rolleyes:

Agent of Orange
05-03-2011, 06:39 PM
Safer than Dareus? Dont know about that. I think Miller was a safe pick AND! he had more potential upside down the road, and if thats the case, i agree with them.
I said it the day after the 1st round and i'll say it again. I dont have a problem with the Miller pick. Fox can outcoach anyone in the NFL in regards to LBs and i am very content with the DEN FO making Miller the next Derrick Thomas. Now get to work Fox, cause DEN sucks!

I actually preferred Fairley or Dareus but I can certainly understand why they would like Miller. And, yes, LBs are typically a safer pick. With Miller you can move him around easier than you can a DT to make him more effective.

TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 06:41 PM
Bingo! That sums up the entire draft fiasco!

Look, the situation NEXT year is not going to be any easier than THIS year as far as finding an elite DT. There will ALWAYS be "better value" at some other position -- because unless the Broncos are drafting in the top 5 again some team is going to GRAB the top 2 DTs on the board somewhere in the top 10 picks most probably.

This year the run on QBs pushed Nick Fairley back to Detroit, but he would probably have gone in the top 8 -- and that's WITH character concerns. Without those concerns he would have gone to the Broncos at #2.

Which means the top 2 (and only really "elite") DTs in the entire draft would have gone #2 and #3.

It's getting worse and worse every year with teams reaching for the top DTs. If you have a chance to draft one you MUST take it because you probably WON'T have that chance again any time soon -- not without trading away your entire draft to move up.

I'm already predicting NEXT year's excuses when the Broncos are drafting #14 or something and there are 2 "elite DTs" on the board and both are gone by the time they pick -- so they wind up ONCE AGAIN with nothing.


They might as well print the excuse on a card right now, and just hand them out at the 2012 draft. :rolleyes:

Just out of curiosity if Denver had taken care of the defensive tackle problem previously how would you feel about this set of draft picks? It's not gotcha question just so you know. If do choose to answer this question I hope you'll keep your answer to a 100 words or less. I'm on my mobile so long answers are cumbersome to read. ;)

Agent of Orange
05-03-2011, 06:42 PM
you're right. it is easier to blame a reporter you'll never interact with than to admit that you're wrong, or that your beloved team doesn't agree with your opinions.

****. Klis is garbage,..like a lot of people in the media.

Cugel
05-03-2011, 06:54 PM
Just out of curiosity if Denver had taken care of the defensive tackle problem previously how would you feel about this set of draft picks? It's not gotcha question just so you know. If do choose to answer this question I hope you'll keep your answer to a 100 words or less. I'm on my mobile so long answers are cumbersome to read. ;)

If the Broncos drafted Dareus instead of Miller the rest of their draft would have been A or B depending on how some of these guys pan out. But, I expected that Moore would be a possibility before the draft. And getting S help and help at LB is a GOOD idea.

Apparently they felt they needed help at RT. I don't think replacing Harris was the #3 need on the team, but I don't control things, Elway does.

They could have drafted Miller and then taken Paea or Austin and I would have LOVED the draft. I think either could provide real value for a mid second round pick. So did the Bears and Giants.

Two teams that know how to rate DL!

TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 08:03 PM
If the Broncos drafted Dareus instead of Miller the rest of their draft would have been A or B depending on how some of these guys pan out. But, I expected that Moore would be a possibility before the draft. And getting S help and help at LB is a GOOD idea.

Apparently they felt they needed help at RT. I don't think replacing Harris was the #3 need on the team, but I don't control things, Elway does.

They could have drafted Miller and then taken Paea or Austin and I would have LOVED the draft. I think either could provide real value for a mid second round pick. So did the Bears and Giants.

Two teams that know how to rate DL!

What I meant was how would you feel about this draft top to bottom if there hadn't been a need to draft a defensive tackle in this draft.

rationalfan
05-03-2011, 11:45 PM
****. Klis is garbage,..like a lot of people in the media.

i disagree. klis isn't garbage. he isn't great. but he isn't garbage. bill williamson is garbage - he regurgitates other people's work. small town sports writers are often garbage - homers in disguise. in my opinion, people rip on klis because he's not a fan. that's a mistake. i don't want a reporter who's a fan. i want a reporter who's thinking objectively, or at least trying to think objectively.

of course you're right about people in the media. but most people in any profession are garbage. it's the minority in any profession who are great. most people simply want a paycheck, don't want to work to their potential. football's the same. so is fandom. it's easy to be a reactive fan whose words mirror the thoughts/emotions of the moment. it's hard to be a fan who cares enough to level his emissions and consider the greater context.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
05-04-2011, 03:34 AM
i disagree. klis isn't garbage. he isn't great. but he isn't garbage. bill williamson is garbage - he regurgitates other people's work. small town sports writers are often garbage - homers in disguise. in my opinion, people rip on klis because he's not a fan. that's a mistake. i don't want a reporter who's a fan. i want a reporter who's thinking objectively, or at least trying to think objectively.

of course you're right about people in the media. but most people in any profession are garbage. it's the minority in any profession who are great. most people simply want a paycheck, don't want to work to their potential. football's the same. so is fandom. it's easy to be a reactive fan whose words mirror the thoughts/emotions of the moment. it's hard to be a fan who cares enough to level his emissions and consider the greater context.

I have no comment on the OT, but I'm going to go ahead and let it be known that I take offense to the bold remark that you made. There are a lot of good professions out there with majority of the people in them being hardworking, good people. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks most people in any profession are garbage.

Agent of Orange
05-04-2011, 08:07 AM
i disagree. klis isn't garbage. he isn't great. but he isn't garbage. bill williamson is garbage - he regurgitates other people's work. small town sports writers are often garbage - homers in disguise. in my opinion, people rip on klis because he's not a fan. that's a mistake. i don't want a reporter who's a fan. i want a reporter who's thinking objectively, or at least trying to think objectively.

First of all, Klis was a huge McDaniels fan but that blew up in his face. Don't give me this garbage that Klis wasn't a fan because he was a fan of McDaniels more than he was the logo. In fact, some of his McDaniels propaganda was the worst I've ever seen. I guess Klis had to kiss McDaniels a_s to get access though. Maybe he's a sellout also. Rest assured, Klis is garbage.

Another way that you can tell Klis is garbage is that he makes these dumb big picture rationalizations and he's frequently wrong about them. And when he is right, its well after everyone else gets it. He's also one of those guys who tries to interweave his own conjecture around quotes in a way that makes it confusing to the reader. He needs to just stick to quotes and not free lance on his own ever. He's wrong too often. The guy's dumb.

And then on top of that, stylistically, he's really poor. He tries too hard to shoehorn corny turns of phrase that make you cringe. And his framing of issues is embarrassing.

Klis should be at a small town paper. Thats where he belongs. He's easily the worst of any paper at any city that has an NFL team.


of course you're right about people in the media. but most people in any profession are garbage. it's the minority in any profession who are great. most people simply want a paycheck, don't want to work to their potential. football's the same. so is fandom. it's easy to be a reactive fan whose words mirror the thoughts/emotions of the moment. it's hard to be a fan who cares enough to level his emissions and consider the greater context.

Thats where you're wrong. At the Denver Post, Krieger, Legwold, and Paige are all good or solid. Klis is the dud. Notice how I said, "a lot" and not "most", which is what you've said. I dont have a % for you but there are plenty of hacks like Klis...probably enough to make it seem like there are more than there actually are.

TXBRONC
05-04-2011, 08:53 AM
First of all, Klis was a huge McDaniels fan but that blew up in his face. Don't give me this garbage that Klis wasn't a fan because he was a fan of McDaniels more than he was the logo. In fact, some of his McDaniels propaganda was the worst I've ever seen. I guess Klis had to kiss McDaniels a_s to get access though. Maybe he's a sellout also. Rest assured, Klis is garbage.

Another way that you can tell Klis is garbage is that he makes these dumb big picture rationalizations and he's frequently wrong about them. And when he is right, its well after everyone else gets it. He's also one of those guys who tries to interweave his own conjecture around quotes in a way that makes it confusing to the reader. He needs to just stick to quotes and not free lance on his own ever. He's wrong too often. The guy's dumb.

And then on top of that, stylistically, he's really poor. He tries too hard to shoehorn corny turns of phrase that make you cringe. And his framing of issues is embarrassing.

Klis should be at a small town paper. Thats where he belongs. He's easily the worst of any paper at any city that has an NFL team.



Thats where you're wrong. At the Denver Post, Krieger, Legwold, and Paige are all good or solid. Klis is the dud. Notice how I said, "a lot" and not "most", which is what you've said. I dont have a % for you but there are plenty of hacks like Klis...probably enough to make it seem like there are more than there actually are.

I agree with Rational, Klis isn't garbage. So what he was supportive of McDaniels but that doesn't make a guy garbage. Like it or not he has a lot more insight into what is going on with the team we do.

You put Legwold in the category of solid report but he was every bit as supportive of McDaniels as Klis was. I don't think he's trash either.

All of the reporters that you've named in post including Klis had some critical commentary on McDaniels. It's just Krieger and Paige were a little more poignant with their criticism. Even so they didn't lower the boom on McDaniels until he was gone and for good reason. If they had said everything they knew right away McDaniels would have found away limit their access to players and staffers.

Micheal Lombardi, yes I know he doesn't work for the post but he was the poster child for having one's nose buried in McDaniels ass. Yet even he had some critical comments of McDaniels. I think his telling comment was that he said McDaniels had to learn just because someone disagree agrees with him needed to learn that does mean the other person is disloyal. That's pretty telling for guy who had his nose firmly planted in McDaniels ass.

Anyway, the point of this thread isn't to evaluate Klis' reporting skills.

rationalfan
05-04-2011, 03:58 PM
I have no comment on the OT, but I'm going to go ahead and let it be known that I take offense to the bold remark that you made. There are a lot of good professions out there with majority of the people in them being hardworking, good people. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks most people in any profession are garbage.

sorry to offend you, but that's my opinion based on experience. it's sad that people expect to be rewarded for simply doing just enough to not get fired. that's garbage. my opinion.

rationalfan
05-04-2011, 04:00 PM
First of all, Klis was a huge McDaniels fan but that blew up in his face. Don't give me this garbage that Klis wasn't a fan because he was a fan of McDaniels more than he was the logo. In fact, some of his McDaniels propaganda was the worst I've ever seen. I guess Klis had to kiss McDaniels a_s to get access though. Maybe he's a sellout also. Rest assured, Klis is garbage.

Another way that you can tell Klis is garbage is that he makes these dumb big picture rationalizations and he's frequently wrong about them. And when he is right, its well after everyone else gets it. He's also one of those guys who tries to interweave his own conjecture around quotes in a way that makes it confusing to the reader. He needs to just stick to quotes and not free lance on his own ever. He's wrong too often. The guy's dumb.

And then on top of that, stylistically, he's really poor. He tries too hard to shoehorn corny turns of phrase that make you cringe. And his framing of issues is embarrassing.

Klis should be at a small town paper. Thats where he belongs. He's easily the worst of any paper at any city that has an NFL team.



Thats where you're wrong. At the Denver Post, Krieger, Legwold, and Paige are all good or solid. Klis is the dud. Notice how I said, "a lot" and not "most", which is what you've said. I dont have a % for you but there are plenty of hacks like Klis...probably enough to make it seem like there are more than there actually are.


i don't know where to start. the things you accuse klis of doing are exhibited by almost every nfl reporter in the nation; including peter king, whom i consider the gold standard (and schefter, who spoiled broncos fans from his days at the post). they're especially exhibited by the people you list as being "good" at the post.

listen, man, i'm cool with disagreeing. just my opinions.

Agent of Orange
05-04-2011, 07:10 PM
i don't know where to start. the things you accuse klis of doing are exhibited by almost every nfl reporter in the nation; including peter king, whom i consider the gold standard (and schefter, who spoiled broncos fans from his days at the post). they're especially exhibited by the people you list as being "good" at the post.

listen, man, i'm cool with disagreeing. just my opinions.

No, not everyone is the same and Peter King is also awful. He's not as awful as Klis but, nevertheless, he's also bad.