Klis' Mailbag: Time still to tell on Denver's defense

[TXBRONC]

Klis has some interesting thoughts on the draft you might want to check it out.


Broncos Mailbag: Time still to tell on Denver's defense
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post

Posted: 05/03/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 05/03/2011 01:24:47 AM MD

This draft was deep in defensive linemen, and the Broncos have been awful at stopping the run. I thought the Von Miller pick made sense if the Broncos took a defensive tackle in Round 2 — and there were good ones there for the taking — yet they refused to do so. Why does this team refuse to take defensive linemen? -- Steve Justus, Westminster

Steve - The Broncos wanted a defensive tackle, no doubt. But what they really wanted was a first-round defensive tackle. With the exception of Ndamukong Suh, who was taken No. 2 overall in 2010, name another rookie defensive tackle in recent years who has had an impact.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_17976173

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I understand that argument, but how long are we going to use it? Trevor Pryce didn't have much of an impact during his rookie year (although it could be argued he had a huge impact in the playoffs and the SB). Does that mean we regret taking him in the 1st round?

We can't just keep loading up on DT's that other teams don't re-sign.

[SOCALORADO.]

I understand that argument, but how long are we going to use it? Trevor Pryce didn't have much of an impact during his rookie year (although it could be argued he had a huge impact in the playoffs and the SB). Does that mean we regret taking him in the 1st round?

We can't just keep loading up on DT's that other teams don't re-sign.

Well, its a stupid answer by Klis to begin with. What? only a player that has an impact his rookie year is worthy of taking at the DT spot?!?!?
Just because players have not had an immediate impact doesnt mean you dont take them. Just a moronic answer to try to sidestep the glaring issue.
DT is a tough postion to play. Even harder in the NFL. Its the most coveted position is football and for good reason. A team needs to invest in this position with talented players, regardless of if it might take a year or 2 to get up to NFL levels of "good".

[BigDaddyBronco]

Well, its a stupid answer by Klis to begin with. What? only a player that has an impact his rookie year is worthy of taking at the DT spot?!?!?
Just because players have not had an immediate impact doesnt mean you dont take them. Just a moronic answer to try to sidestep the glaring issue.
DT is a tough postion to play. Even harder in the NFL. Its the most coveted position is football and for good reason. A team needs to invest in this position with talented players, regardless of if it might take a year or 2 to get up to NFL levels of "good".

QB, LT, and DT are cornerstones and it's hard to find pro-bowl talent in these positions unless you get them high in the 1st round. That being said, QB's and DT's also are huge bust risks and if you are spending gobs of money on a first round pick you want to make sure they will pan out. Hopefully, a new labor contract will make it more of a football decision and less of a business decision.

[TXBRONC]

I think point trying make was that none of the defensive tackles would make the kind immediate impact that Suh did for the Lions. Defensive tackles generally take time to develop as you all mentioned. Maybe that's why they went the route they did.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think point trying make was that none of the defensive tackles would make the kind immediate impact that Suh did for the Lions. Defensive tackles generally take time to develop as you all mentioned. Maybe that's why they went the route they did.

Totally true, Suh is an outlier. It took Haloti Ngata 2-3 years to really turn into the force he is today, it will probably take about the same for Dareus. But, we are still 2-3 years away from being back into contention anyway, unless we can find some good DT's in FA and Tebow takes a big step.

[SOCALORADO.]

I think point trying make was that none of the defensive tackles would make the kind immediate impact that Suh did for the Lions. Defensive tackles generally take time to develop as you all mentioned. Maybe that's why they went the route they did.

You respond like DEN is a SB contender!
Who cares that it takes them time to develop?
If thats the case, then ALL the MORE reason to draft them!
But becuase the player isnt a Suh, DEN just never drafts DTs?
Shoot, that actually seems to be the case! And its a horrible
game plan! LOL!
Now DEN has no real answer at DT, no guarantee that they
will get one in FA, and some very worried fans.
Good teams dont just put off the DT position because the player
isnt a Suh. Thats just dumb.

[TXBRONC]

You respond like DEN is a SB contender!
Who cares that it takes them time to develop?
If thats the case, then ALL the MORE reason to draft them!
But becuase the player isnt a Suh, DEN just never drafts DTs?
Shoot, that actually seems to be the case! And its a horrible
game plan! LOL!
Now DEN has no real answer at DT, no guarantee that they
will get one in FA, and some very worried fans.
Good teams dont just put off the DT position because the player
isnt a Suh. Thats just dumb.

I did not you loser! :D (J/K)

Seriously, reading into my response that I think Denver is already a Super Bowl contender that's misinterpretation. What said is that this point that I think Klis is trying make.

[Ravage!!!]

there are plenty of quality players at all positions that were NOT drafted in the 1st round. You don't build quality teams through your first round selections, its the rest of the draft that builds a team.

For every first round boom, I can name 5 first round busts at the same position.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I understand that argument, but how long are we going to use it? Trevor Pryce didn't have much of an impact during his rookie year (although it could be argued he had a huge impact in the playoffs and the SB). Does that mean we regret taking him in the 1st round?

We can't just keep loading up on DT's that other teams don't re-sign.

Does FA not come down to a bidding war? According to the following link, there are young FA defensive tackles available.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011DT.php

[TXBRONC]

Does FA not come down to a bidding war? According to the following link, there are young FA defensive tackles available.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011DT.php

True to an extent. But is also true that young defensive tackles that are good rarely get away from their original teams.

[SOCALORADO.]

Does FA not come down to a bidding war? According to the following link, there are young FA defensive tackles available.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011DT.php

Dude, how often do you see top notch, Pro Bowl quality DTs or NTs walk in FA? Again, for the thousandth time, its the most coveted position in football. And for good reason. Yeah, occasionally every decade or so, theres a nutjob like Haynesworth, and the team finally just lets him go, but thats rare.
Usually you see pro bowl calibur D-line players go after they are 30. When they are past their prime.
Its going to be really difficult to out bid other teams considering there are only 2 real options at 4-3 DT in this years FA.
Mebane is a pipe-dream. Carroll aint letting him go.
Cofield and Jenkins are the only one worth over paying for in FA. And DEN WILL overpay. And check the age of all those DTs and NTs on your list. Theres like 3 including Mebane (pipe-dream) that are under 30.
Over paying huge $$$$ in FA for a player thats over 30 is not good buisnees sense, unless its a Peppers, and thats rare.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Don't forget - there is also the trade route.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Broncos still have to get a starting defensive tackle through free agency, trade or the waiver wire (where they have the No. 2 claim) to pair with Kevin Vickerson. And then next year the Broncos can attack the draft with a defensive tackle.

Even in a sports league that is the paragon of parity, one reason why only the St. Louis Rams were able to go from 4-12 one season (1998) to Super Bowl champs the next (1999) is because it's usually impossible to fill every need in one year.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_17976173?source=rss

[Juriga72]

Ok... I'll byte on this one

I'm sure that Randy Starks-3rd 2004, Shaun Phillips-3rd 2004, and jared Allen 4th 2004

ALL pro bowl rookie year D-linemen are laughing at this right now....I'm done looking for even more...

First round 2004 Pro Bowl D-line Tommie Harris, Will SMith, Vince Wolfork, Jason Babin\


Yup... and this draft was better in D- line

[topscribe]

Does FA not come down to a bidding war? According to the following link, there are young FA defensive tackles available.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011DT.php

FA is an absolute recruiting war. As you probably noted, Elway said they were
braced for when all heck breaks loose, when all this nonsense is lifted (I added
some commentary there). They are going to have to be generous, and they
are going to have to be quick . . .

-----

[SOCALORADO.]

Ok... I'll byte on this one

I'm sure that Randy Starks-3rd 2004, Shaun Phillips-3rd 2004, and jared Allen 4th 2004

ALL pro bowl rookie year D-linemen are laughing at this right now....I'm done looking for even more...

First round 2004 Pro Bowl D-line Tommie Harris, Will SMith, Vince Wolfork, Jason Babin\


Yup... and this draft was better in D- line

What about the SD NT? He was a 2nd round pick in the supplemental draft i think?
Oh yeah, He was a Bronco last year, Jamal Williams.
Nevermind. *Sighs*

[HORSEPOWER 56]

What about the SD NT? He was a compensatory 5th round pick i think?
Oh yeah, He was a Bronco last year, Jamal Williams.
Nevermind. *Sighs*

He was a 2nd rounder in the 1998 supplemental draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Williams

[SOCALORADO.]

He was a 2nd rounder in the 1998 supplemental draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Williams

Edit for accuracy. It was Cam, their new NT who was a 5th rounder.
Still Compensatory draft, and they hit a home run.
Unreal.

[rcsodak]

QB, LT, and DT are cornerstones and it's hard to find pro-bowl talent in these positions unless you get them high in the 1st round. That being said, QB's and DT's also are huge bust risks and if you are spending gobs of money on a first round pick you want to make sure they will pan out. Hopefully, a new labor contract will make it more of a football decision and less of a business decision.
Actually, I think its DE thats higher regarded, but carryon..... ;)

[BigDaddyBronco]

Actually, I think its DE thats higher regarded, but carryon..... ;)
Well they say edge rushers, so that can be OLB or DE are one of the 3 cornerstones. I think they are pretty valuable to a team, but they are much easier to get (at least OLB's are anyway) that DT's.

[G_Money]

We're lucky in that there are several good DTs available, when there are normally, erm...zero.

We need at LEAST one of em. I like Mebane, but so does every other team in existence, so my guess is we're not gonna get him. Cofield would be a good choice, though not exciting - he just does his job, and we need a few more of those guys. I could see Thomas coming back, since we might FINALLY be running the sort of defense he should be good at, but we'll see.

Can we just hang some steak or something from a pole in front of Shaun Rogers to motivate him? The guy is a crusher...for about 5 games a year. Rogers gets upfield as a DT, and I love that about him. Mebane is practically impossible to run on, and Rogers just keeps moving forward.

We won't get both guys, but they're the successful versions of Paea and Austin. I hope we swing for the fences on some of the good options, though, and then pack in a rotation of useful players around them.

And is it too early to sign up for Marcus Forston in the draft next year? Somebody make that happen. ;)

~G

[Traveler]

We're lucky in that there are several good DTs available, when there are normally, erm...zero.

We need at LEAST one of em. I like Mebane, but so does every other team in existence, so my guess is we're not gonna get him. Cofield would be a good choice, though not exciting - he just does his job, and we need a few more of those guys. I could see Thomas coming back, since we might FINALLY be running the sort of defense he should be good at, but we'll see.

Can we just hang some steak or something from a pole in front of Shaun Rogers to motivate him? The guy is a crusher...for about 5 games a year. Rogers gets upfield as a DT, and I love that about him. Mebane is practically impossible to run on, and Rogers just keeps moving forward.

We won't get both guys, but they're the successful versions of Paea and Austin. I hope we swing for the fences on some of the good options, though, and then pack in a rotation of useful players around them.

And is it too early to sign up for Marcus Forston in the draft next year? Somebody make that happen. ;)

~G

Too lazy to run a search. How old are they? I read something where Fox he was looking to DT's in their 20's.

[SOCALORADO.]

Too lazy to run a search. How old are they? I read something where Fox he was looking to DT's in their 20's.

You mean Austin and Paea?:D

[Northman]

Settle down SoCal. Its going to be alright mate.

[G_Money]

Mebane is 26. Cofield is 27. I think Rogers is 32, but I'm not expecting to go get him.

~G

[slim]

When did DT become the most coveted position in the NFL?

[Traveler]

you mean austin and paea?:d

touche!

[TXBRONC]

When did DT become the most coveted position in the NFL?

On the 8th day after the creation of the world.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Too lazy to run a search. How old are they? I read something where Fox he was looking to DT's in their 20's.
Mebane is 26, Cofield is 27, and Rodgers is 33 I think.

Never mind. Thanks G.

[TXBRONC]

Settle down SoCal. Its going to be alright mate.

Four double espressos a day has tendency to set person on edge. :D

[BigDaddyBronco]

When did DT become the most coveted position in the NFL?

When you watch the Raiders run 250 yards against you. The effin Raiders.


I don't think we need the best DT's in the game, but we need to at least be average. Same difference with OLine, you can have an all-pro LT, but if their DT's are blowing up the middle and putting pressure on the QB or stopping your run game behind the LOS, you need some guards.

[slim]

When you watch the Raiders run 250 yards against you. The effin Raiders.


I don't think we need the best DT's in the game, but we need to at least be average. Same difference with OLine, you can have an all-pro LT, but if their DT's are blowing up the middle and putting pressure on the QB or stopping your run game behind the LOS, you need some guards.

I have always believed that you should build a team from the LOS out, but to call DT the most coveted position is a bit of a reach.

I mean, would Indy trade the forehead for Ngata?

Something tells me the answer is no.

[slim]

When you watch the Raiders run 250 yards against you. The effin Raiders.


I don't think we need the best DT's in the game, but we need to at least be average. Same difference with OLine, you can have an all-pro LT, but if their DT's are blowing up the middle and putting pressure on the QB or stopping your run game behind the LOS, you need some guards.

Also, **** the raiders.

[SOCALORADO.]

Settle down SoCal. Its going to be alright mate.

Yeah, yeah. Talk about it being alright week 9 when this team is still giving up 250 yards a game to the faders. Then we'll see where you all are at with the "oh dont worry, we'll just pick up some DTs on Aisle 12 at Walmart" attitude. :D

[SOCALORADO.]

Also, **** the raiders.

Right. F the raiders who literally kicked the broncos up and down the field last year and ran through the middle like it was the Grand Canyon.
Screw them for beating DEN into the ground and making them look like a bunch of rank amatuers. Those jerks!

[TXBRONC]

Yeah, yeah. Talk about it being alright week 9 when this team is still giving up 250 yards a game to the faders. Then we'll see where you all are at with the "oh dont worry, we'll just pick up some DTs on Aisle 12 at Walmart" attitude. :D

Wal-Mart sells defensive tackles? Cool. :cool: :lol:

[BigDaddyBronco]

I have always believed that you should build a team from the LOS out, but to call DT the most coveted position is a bit of a reach.

I mean, would Indy trade the forehead for Ngata?

Something tells me the answer is no.
I said QB, LT, and then DT (or edge rusher). I still think getting a good QB and protecting him is number one. Then stopping the run and getting to the QB should be the next focus.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Right. F the raiders who literally kicked the broncos up and down the field last year and ran through the middle like it was the Grand Canyon.
Screw them for beating DEN into the ground and making them look like a bunch of rank amatuers. Those jerks!

I'm still pissed about that. ****!

[SOCALORADO.]

Wal-Mart sells defensive tackles? Cool. :cool: :lol:

I think they sell cheerleaders too!

[slim]

I said QB, LT, and then DT (or edge rusher). I still think getting a good QB and protecting him is number one. Then stopping the run and getting to the QB should be the next focus.

I would put DE ahead of DT, but I think we agree for the most part.

[TXBRONC]

I would put DE ahead of DT, but I think we agree for the most part.

Do they come in 6 packs or 12 packs?

[G_Money]

I have always believed that you should build a team from the LOS out, but to call DT the most coveted position is a bit of a reach.

I mean, would Indy trade the forehead for Ngata?

Something tells me the answer is no.

I've always believed you could tell the "most coveted" positions by the number of great players at those positions that hit the FA market.

Great FA quarterbacks? Nil.

FA wide receivers? Quite a few more.

Great DTs? It's really hard to get em unless they're total headcases like Haynesworth.

They usually get out of where they are when a team believes their bodies are shot and they have minimal contributions left to give. You can get Jamal Williams after his wheezing corpse is stumbling around the field for a while.

Before then? Very difficult. Which is why you have to draft your own - even though DL is the worst bet to make in the draft (have the highest bust rate, or did last I checked).

Like I said, this is a rare year where there should be several DT free agents who are still young and capable of significant, Pro-Bowl level contributions. Maybe that's what helped to swing it for us, knowing we could get one or two to really bolster us immediately.

Now we just need to get em. The opportunity doesn't come around often.

~G

[SOCALORADO.]

I'm still pissed about that. ****!

Come on out to my neck of the woods and you will be reminded of it EVERY DAY. Oh and you'll be reminded of the butt whoopin the sparklers put on this team last year as well. Every day.
But not to worry! We'll just work a deal in FA and everything will be alright.
Its amazing, i am actually content to just hope DEN can break even with divisional teams anymore. And now they just dominate DEN all season long.

[SOCALORADO.]

I've always believed you could tell the "most coveted" positions by the number of great players at those positions that hit the FA market.

Great FA quarterbacks? Nil.

FA wide receivers? Quite a few more.

Great DTs? It's really hard to get em unless they're total headcases like Haynesworth.

They usually get out of where they are when a team believes their bodies are shot and they have minimal contributions left to give. You can get Jamal Williams after his wheezing corpse is stumbling around the field for a while.

Before then? Very difficult. Which is why you have to draft your own - even though DL is the worst bet to make in the draft (have the highest bust rate, or did last I checked).

Like I said, this is a rare year where there should be several DT free agents who are still young and capable of significant, Pro-Bowl level contributions. Maybe that's what helped to swing it for us, knowing we could get one or two to really bolster us immediately.

Now we just need to get em. The opportunity doesn't come around often.

~G

All i have been trying to say. DTs are as coveted and sometimes even more coveted to their respective teams than alot of QBs!
Obviously there are exceptions like Brady or Manning. But not many exceptions.

[Juriga72]

When you watch the Raiders run 250 yards against you. The effin Raiders.


I don't think we need the best DT's in the game, but we need to at least be average. Same difference with OLine, you can have an all-pro LT, but if their DT's are blowing up the middle and putting pressure on the QB or stopping your run game behind the LOS, you need some guards.

How bout that KC game (09)... AT home to get into the playoffs, when we just pounded them a few weeks before........and they ran for 340 yards....


Oh... I am getting woozy again.......

[BigDaddyBronco]

Come on out to my neck of the woods and you will be reminded of it EVERY DAY. Oh and you'll be reminded of the butt whoopin the sparklers put on this team last year as well. Every day.
But not to worry! We'll just work a deal in FA and everything will be alright.
Its amazing, i am actually content to just hope DEN can break even with divisional teams anymore. And now they just dominate DEN all season long.

Just think when we start beating them with Tebow and he gives them the Tebow flex and yell, they'll hate him so much. It will be like the Elway days. They hated Elway so much.

[SOCALORADO.]

Just think when we start beating them with Tebow and he gives them the Tebow flex and yell, they'll hate him so much. It will be like the Elway days. They hated Elway so much.

I guess we can play TT at DT. Shoot come to think of it, he adds a few pounds and DEN has a great DT! Do it! ;)

[Northman]

I guess we can play TT at DT. Shoot come to think of it, he adds a few pounds and DEN has a great DT! Do it! ;)

F it. Ill do it. Just pay me 300,000 for one year and im game. Lets do it.

[SOCALORADO.]

F it. Ill do it. Just pay me 300,000 for one year and im game. Lets do it.

My evil plan has finally come together! All along i was manipulating from behind the scenes to get Northman to give up his day job and come play DT for the Denver Broncos!
Now someone in Baltimore get Northman a beer! Shoot, get him a keg!
We need to put some weight on that man!

[topscribe]

My evil plan has finally come together! All along i was manipulating from behind the scenes to get Northman to give up his day job and come play DT for the Denver Broncos!
Now someone in Baltimore get Northman a beer! Shoot, get him a keg!
We need to put some weight on that man!

We don't have the time to try to put weight on somebody like North.

Somebody go grab Slim!

-----

[slim]

We don't have the time to try to put weight on somebody like North.

Somebody go grab Slim!

-----

My gap penetration is off the charts.

[TXBRONC]

My gap penetration is off the charts.

Yeah but I have a hunch your stamina isn't up to snuff.