PFT says Falcons wanted to trade to #2

[robert ethan]

D'oh!

Even if they only offered Denver the same deal as they gave Cleveland, Broncos should have done it.:tsk:

Miller will be unremarkable.

[Agent of Orange]

Have fun being a Browns fan.

[TXBRONC]

D'oh!

Even if they only offered Denver the same deal as they gave Cleveland, Broncos should have done it.:tsk:

Miller will be unremarkable.

No they shouldn't have.

I'll trust the analysis of Mayock of what kind of player Miller will be.

[BroncoJoe]

Mr. Ethan is a master baiter.

[TXBRONC]

Mr. Ethan is a master baiter.

I agree.

[Agent of Orange]

BTW, Im not so sure I believe this. And even if its true, I wouldnt blame Denver for passing. Its not like Denver would be moving down a few spots. The Broncos need impact players. If Miller is really a once ever 10 years talent, they should take him. Its hard to find a substitute for a guy who can pressure the QB, especially in todays pass-happy NFL.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

way too far back to trade a prospect like Miller.

[TXBRONC]

way too far back to trade a prospect like Miller.

But hey we got Beal who is acutally better than Miller. ;)

[chazoe60]

Isn't this Ethan guy a huge McD supporter?


If so, all I have to say is :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[SoCalImport]

Isn't this Ethan guy a huge McD supporter?


If so, all I have to say is :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I don't think anybody in here is a McD supporter. He doesn't work for our team anymore.

[Day1BroncoFan]

I was told by inside sources that McD is an athletic supporter.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think anybody in here is a McD supporter. He doesn't work for our team anymore.

There are a few that do. It doesn't they won't support the team but there are some that think McDaniels got a raw deal.

[Ravage!!!]

So a team that needs HIGH impact players, you felt it would have made more sense for us to move all the way back to 26? The reason a team like the Falcons can give up that much and move like that, is because they are a team that is ready.. NOW. The Broncos, are not. Moving to 26 and completely missing out on players like Miller would be absolutely foolish.

I'm with Agent, I don't even believe it to be true.

[TXBRONC]

So a team that needs HIGH impact players, you felt it would have made more sense for us to move all the way back to 26? The reason a team like the Falcons can give up that much and move like that, is because they are a team that is ready.. NOW. The Broncos, are not. Moving to 26 and completely missing out on players like Miller would be absolutely foolish.

I'm with Agent, I don't even believe it to be true.

If it is true I'm glad EFX did the right thing and told them to piss off.

[MileHighCrew]

I would have thought it was a huge mistake to make a move like this IF they could have. The Broncos need new star players on this team.

[TXBRONC]

I would have thought it was a huge mistake to make a move like this IF they could have. The Broncos need new star players on this team.

Total cluster _____ is what comes to my mind if Denver had done that.

[MileHighCrew]

IMO part of the recent failure of this team is always trading down in the first round. Extra picks are great no doubt, but there is something to be said for drafting elite talent

[robert ethan]

Falcons wanted A.J. Green with the pick though. They wouldn't have drafted Miller. Nothing saying the Broncos had to stay at #26. Lots of teams wanted to trade down in the draft. With that bounty of picks along with an extra 2nd rounder from the Marshall deal, they probably could have traded back to whatever spot they wanted to. Fairley went at #13, Amukamura around #20, Rudolph and Bowers in the second round. Washington traded out of the #10 spot. That would have been a good spot to jump back in.

Doesn't pay to have timid old fogeys running the draft.

[Agent of Orange]

Falcons wanted A.J. Green with the pick though. They wouldn't have drafted Miller. Nothing saying the Broncos had to stay at #26. Lots of teams wanted to trade down in the draft. With that bounty of picks along with an extra 2nd rounder from the Marshall deal, they probably could have traded back to whatever spot they wanted to. Fairley went at #13, Amukamura around #20, Rudolph and Bowers in the second round. Washington traded out of the #10 spot. That would have been a good spot to jump back in.

Doesn't pay to have timid old fogeys running the draft.

Stop complaining just to get attention.

[MileHighCrew]

Falcons wanted A.J. Green with the pick though. They wouldn't have drafted Miller. Nothing saying the Broncos had to stay at #26. Lots of teams wanted to trade down in the draft. With that bounty of picks along with an extra 2nd rounder from the Marshall deal, they probably could have traded back to whatever spot they wanted to. Fairley went at #13, Amukamura around #20, Rudolph and Bowers in the second round. Washington traded out of the #10 spot. That would have been a good spot to jump back in.

Doesn't pay to have timid old fogeys running the draft.

The fact that you used Bowers who dropped to 50 and EVERY team passed him as your agrument, completley voids your point IMO.
But less see, say we can't get back to get Fairley was a head case that has to go to the right team, the Lions are a great fit Broncos not so much, The Prince I guess but if we wanted a CB we could have had PP the best in the country, didn't want him. Any 2nd rounder isn't worth thinking about because if they wanted him then he would be a Bronco.

Calling them old fogeys is just baiting and isn't worth my time

[robert ethan]

Stop complaining just to get attention.

Well it's a complaint based on fact. I doubt that Thomas Dimitroff would have thrown out that remark if it wasn't true. Miller reminds me too much of Myron Rolle. He is way too image conscious and strikes you as someone who is already planning a future political career with pro football as the stepping stone. He really isn't as smart as he presents himself as being.

[Agent of Orange]

The fact that you used Bowers who dropped to 50 and EVERY team passed him as your agrument, completley voids your point IMO.
But less see, say we can't get back to get Fairley was a head case that has to go to the right team, the Lions are a great fit Broncos not so much, The Prince I guess but if we wanted a CB we could have had PP the best in the country, didn't want him. Any 2nd rounder isn't worth thinking about because if they wanted him then he would be a Bronco.

Calling them old fogeys is just baiting and isn't worth my time

Or how about him building a point around Fairley sliding to 13,...as if Fairley at 13 could have been promised when Atlanta wanted to move up. And that's not even including the issue of Denver not wanting to risk losing what they felt was a difference maker.

[robert ethan]

The fact that you used Bowers who dropped to 50 and EVERY team passed him as your agrument, completley voids your point IMO.
But less see, say we can't get back to get Fairley was a head case that has to go to the right team, the Lions are a great fit Broncos not so much, The Prince I guess but if we wanted a CB we could have had PP the best in the country, didn't want him. Any 2nd rounder isn't worth thinking about because if they wanted him then he would be a Bronco.

Calling them old fogeys is just baiting and isn't worth my time

With all the picks the Broncos would have had they could afford to gamble on guys like Bowers and Rudolph. Players who would be top 10 picks if they were fully healthy. Lots of posters on here had Fairley and Bowers as potential picks at #2 overall not so long ago. They aren't different players from what they were when they played their last college game.

[Agent of Orange]

Well it's a complaint based on fact. I doubt that Thomas Dimitroff would have thrown out that remark if it wasn't true. Miller reminds me too much of Myron Rolle. He is way too image conscious and strikes you as someone who is already planning a future political career with pro football as the stepping stone. He really isn't as smart as he presents himself as being.

Elway himself said that no one called about the #2 pick. But I like how build your complaint around calling Elway a liar.

Good luck with that.

[MileHighCrew]

Or how about him building a point around Fairley sliding to 13,...as if Fairley at 13 could have been promised when Atlanta wanted to move up. And that's not even including the issue of Denver not wanting to risk losing what they felt was a difference maker.

Missed that one, sorry so many holes in the argument it is hard to hit all of them.

[robert ethan]

Makes no difference who slid to where. You know that someone is going to slide. Particularly with the quarterback reachs which were predicted beforehand. None of Newton, Locker, or Ponder belonged in the top 15 from a value point of view. Gabbert, barely. So that is three or four players available at #10 and beyond who should have been drafted already. All defensive prospects, probably.

[robert ethan]

Elway himself said that no one called about the #2 pick. But I like how build your complaint around calling Elway a liar.

Good luck with that.
I don't think Elway said that AFTER the draft. I imagine most of the calls happened just prior to or during the draft. I don't think Elway was out giving interviews at that point in time. Or at least I hope not.

[MileHighCrew]

Makes no difference who slid to where. You know that someone is going to slide. Particularly with the quarterback reachs which were predicted beforehand. None of Newton, Locker, or Ponder NO ONE SAW COMINGbelonged in the top 15 from a value point of view. Gabbert, barely. So that is three or four players available at #10 and beyond who should have been drafted already. All defensive prospects, probably.

Probably is a hell of a gamble of a four win team, assuming we could get back in there.

[robert ethan]

It was conventional wisdom that several quarterbacks would go as reachs in the top half of the first round. The names changed, but the theory was sound.

[TXBRONC]

Well it's a complaint based on fact. I doubt that Thomas Dimitroff would have thrown out that remark if it wasn't true. Miller reminds me too much of Myron Rolle. He is way too image conscious and strikes you as someone who is already planning a future political career with pro football as the stepping stone. He really isn't as smart as he presents himself as being.

You're complaining because they didn't do things your way. Quite honestly it's a good thing they didn't.

[Agent of Orange]

You're complaining because they didn't do things your way. Quite honestly it's a good thing they didn't.

And he called Elway a liar on top of that.

[TXBRONC]

And he called Elway a liar on top of that.

That's just baiting nothing more nothing less.

[ForgettingBrandonMarshall]

It was conventional wisdom that several quarterbacks would go as reachs in the top half of the first round. The names changed, but the theory was sound.

I picked this quote just because it was your last one, but from what I've read, you've wanted the Broncos to make a move purely based on speculation. You act as though our organization should have predicted the way things were going to pan out. Conventional wisdom? Really? With hindsight, it's easy to make the comments you are making. At 4-12, we aren't in the position to take risks on the basis of "conventional wisdom," aka speculation, alone.

I'll just put you down as one of the few who don't like picking Von Miller and I'll wait and see what he brings to this team. In the meantime, I'll start boiling your crow.

[claymore]

Mods Please ban Josh McDaniels wife.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Atlanta GM Thomas Dimitroff said Monday on Pro Football Talk Live that besides the deal he made with the Cleveland Browns while moving up from No. 27 to No. 6, he had also talked to other teams about moving up, including the Broncos, who had the No. 2 draft pick.

Before screaming at the Broncos’ braintrust for turning down an offer that would have been richer than the five-pick haul the Browns received, some clarification is needed. Starting with the fact the Falcons never made an offer to the Broncos.

According to an NFL source, Dimitroff did call the Broncos about their No. 2 pick, but it was ”weeks before” the draft. Many teams put out preliminary feelers well in advance of the draft. According to the source, Dimitroff said he would never offer draft-chart value in return for moving up from No. 27 to No. 2. The Broncos let him know they weren’t interested in trading the pick unless they got proper value for moving back.

rest of article - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/05/02/falcons-called-but-never-made-offer-for-broncos-no-2-pick/7475/

[robert ethan]

rest of article - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/05/02/falcons-called-but-never-made-offer-for-broncos-no-2-pick/7475/

The ubiquitous "source".:rolleyes:

Dimitroff made his comments freely, publicly, and without much apparent doubt, so I'm more inclined to believe him than "The Source". What is "draft value" in this case? I'm sure the Falcons would have made the same offer for the #2 overall pick as the #6 overall pick. Probably with the "adjustments" Dimitroff spoke of. When you're dealing with future picks, the draft value chart pretty much goes out the window. A future first round pick could be worth 3,000 points or 500 by the draft value chart. Belicihik always manages to have a couple of extra future picks in the first couple rounds and still keeps his current team at the top of the league.

[Poet]

I'm going to chime in and say that the Falcons allegedly made that same offer to Cincinnati.

Truth of the matter is that Jones was their guy. They knew where they needed to trade up to get him.

I don't think that ATL sent the Broncos that same offer.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The ubiquitous "source".:rolleyes:

Dimitroff made his comments freely, publicly, and without much apparent doubt, so I'm more inclined to believe him than "The Source". What is "draft value" in this case? I'm sure the Falcons would have made the same offer for the #2 overall pick as the #6 overall pick. Probably with the "adjustments" Dimitroff spoke of. When you're dealing with future picks, the draft value chart pretty much goes out the window. A future first round pick could be worth 3,000 points or 500 by the draft value chart. Belicihik always manages to have a couple of extra future picks in the first couple rounds and still keeps his current team at the top of the league.

So - you start this thread with the title "PFT says Falcons wanted to trade to #2 - you provide no link, and add your personal comments.

If Dimitroff made his comments freely, publicly, and without much apparent doubt, provide a link.

I posted what Mike Klis said, plus link. If you are not aware of who Klis is - he is one of the sports writers for the Denver Post, who follows the Broncos, who has contact with the Broncos top brass, plus players.

[TXBRONC]

So - you start this thread with the title "PFT says Falcons wanted to trade to #2 - you provide no link, and add your personal comments.

If Dimitroff made his comments freely, publicly, and without much apparent doubt, provide a link.

I posted what Mike Klis said, plus link. If you are not aware of who Klis is - he is one of the sports writers for the Denver Post, who follows the Broncos, who has contact with the Broncos top brass, plus players.

Is it wrong to be in love with an older woman?

[robert ethan]

The link was PFT interviewing Dimitroff. Obviously I can't say for certain what happened, but logic and the straightforwardness of Dimitroff suggest that there is a very good chance that the Broncos could have had at least the same package as was sent to the Browns by the Falcons. It's all hypothetical now, but I would have jumped on the deal.

Interestingly, the Bronco draft (in my eyes) got better as it went along. As the Johns had less input and Xanders and the scouts had more input. I thought Julius Thomas, Virgil Green, and Jeremy Beal, as a trio, are just as good as the top three guys Miller, Moore, and Franklin.

[Ravage!!!]

So - you start this thread with the title "PFT says Falcons wanted to trade to #2 - you provide no link, and add your personal comments.

If Dimitroff made his comments freely, publicly, and without much apparent doubt, provide a link.

I posted what Mike Klis said, plus link. If you are not aware of who Klis is - he is one of the sports writers for the Denver Post, who follows the Broncos, who has contact with the Broncos top brass, plus players.

I think this pretty much ended the thread/discussion about the falcons supposed offer and complaints that the Broncos didn't take the "supposed" offer.

Next I guess we could just complain about the offer we didn't get from the Packer to move into the #2 spot. :coffee:

[Ravage!!!]

The ubiquitous "source".:rolleyes:

Dimitroff made his comments freely, publicly, and without much apparent doubt, so I'm more inclined to believe him than "The Source". What is "draft value" in this case? I'm sure the Falcons would have made the same offer for the #2 overall pick as the #6 overall pick. Probably with the "adjustments" Dimitroff spoke of. When you're dealing with future picks, the draft value chart pretty much goes out the window. A future first round pick could be worth 3,000 points or 500 by the draft value chart. Belicihik always manages to have a couple of extra future picks in the first couple rounds and still keeps his current team at the top of the league.

Its pretty well known that reporters from all over the nation, in all aspects of news, RELY on unnamed sources. It's the cornerstone of gathering information, especially inside information. So please don't try to insinuate that the 'source' was not reliable, or non-existent, purely based on the fact he/she wasn't named. Thats thoroughly an uneducated perspective.

[Traveler]

so - you start this thread with the title "pft says falcons wanted to trade to #2 - you provide no link, and add your personal comments.

If dimitroff made his comments freely, publicly, and without much apparent doubt, provide a link.

i posted what mike klis said, plus link. if you are not aware of who klis is - he is one of the sports writers for the denver post, who follows the broncos, who has contact with the broncos top brass, plus players.

ouch!

[OrangeHoof]

Trading down isn't wrong. Heck, the Patriots do it all the time. What's wrong is whiffing on the picks you get. The obvious bounty in the deal is having Atlanta's #1 this year and next. But we got Chicago's #1 for two years in the Cutler deal and what did we get out of it? No-show Moreno and Alphonso Smith if I recall correctly.

What did we get out of two 1s last year? A gimpy wide receiver and the Magic Tebow.

So, if Miller turns out to be a LT/Ware/Merriman clone, we were smart as hell not to take the trade. If he becomes the next Quentin Coryatt, we mighta shoulda done the deal. At first blush, though, the Broncos were right to stay put even though I wanted Dareus.

[Poet]

Is it wrong to be in love with an older woman?

Put it to you like this, Demi Moore and Nicole Kidman can call me aaaaaany time.

[LTC Pain]

ouch!

RE got pwned!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The link was PFT interviewing Dimitroff. Obviously I can't say for certain what happened, but logic and the straightforwardness of Dimitroff suggest that there is a very good chance that the Broncos could have had at least the same package as was sent to the Browns by the Falcons. It's all hypothetical now, but I would have jumped on the deal.

Interestingly, the Bronco draft (in my eyes) got better as it went along. As the Johns had less input and Xanders and the scouts had more input. I thought Julius Thomas, Virgil Green, and Jeremy Beal, as a trio, are just as good as the top three guys Miller, Moore, and Franklin.

Dimitroff SPEAKING in regards to trading up with the Browns The Broncos were mentioned ONLY by a very general comment.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/02/falcons-tried-to-climb-to-no-2-overall-pick/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22825103/vp/42862762#42862762

[GEM]

Somebody call the President, Carol is killing Robert Ethan.


:lol: :D :D

[robert ethan]

It isn't logical to assume that the Falcons would not have been willing to give up the same package for the #2 overall pick as they gave for the #6 overall pick. Which ended up being the #26 overall pick in round 1, second and fourth round picks in 2011, and first and fourth in 2012. Probably considering the added value of #2, Falcons would have gone first and second in 2012.

That left Denver at #26 with three second rounders. Combining the 26 with one of the second round picks would move them back into the area where they could still draft a good defensive prospect. There was no clear delineation this year among the top defensive prospects.

[TXBRONC]

Put it to you like this, Demi Moore and Nicole Kidman can call me aaaaaany time.

You might not want to spend to much time waiting by the phone. :phone:

[slim]

It isn't logical to assume that the Falcons would not have been willing to give up the same package for the #2 overall pick as they gave for the #6 overall pick. Which ended up being the #26 overall pick in round 1, second and fourth round picks in 2011, and first and fourth in 2012. Probably considering the added value of #2, Falcons would have gone first and second in 2012.

That left Denver at #26 with three second rounders. Combining the 26 with one of the second round picks would move them back into the area where they could still draft a good defensive prospect. There was no clear delineation this year among the top defensive prospects.

It isn't logical to expect Elway to accept an offer that was never made.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

It isn't logical to expect Elway to accept an offer that was never made.


:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:

[TXBRONC]

Somebody call the President, Carol is killing Robert Ethan.


:lol: :D :D

Nah lets just sit back and watch the carnage. :popcorn:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

It isn't logical to assume that the Falcons would not have been willing to give up the same package for the #2 overall pick as they gave for the #6 overall pick. Which ended up being the #26 overall pick in round 1, second and fourth round picks in 2011, and first and fourth in 2012. Probably considering the added value of #2, Falcons would have gone first and second in 2012.

That left Denver at #26 with three second rounders. Combining the 26 with one of the second round picks would move them back into the area where they could still draft a good defensive prospect. There was no clear delineation this year among the top defensive prospects.

If you take the time to listen to the conversation, Dimitroff stated that he had been working with the Browns, either 2 or 2-1/2 weeks BEFORE the draft.

Even though you have not proven that he spoke with the Broncos VERY SERIOUSLY about trading up to the #2 spot, do you know for a fact that what the Browns ended up with, is also what was PROPOSED to the Broncos, with you being CERTAIN that he detailed an offer when speaking to the Broncos???

[GEM]

It isn't logical to assume that the Falcons would not have been willing to give up the same package for the #2 overall pick as they gave for the #6 overall pick. Which ended up being the #26 overall pick in round 1, second and fourth round picks in 2011, and first and fourth in 2012. Probably considering the added value of #2, Falcons would have gone first and second in 2012.

That left Denver at #26 with three second rounders. Combining the 26 with one of the second round picks would move them back into the area where they could still draft a good defensive prospect. There was no clear delineation this year among the top defensive prospects.


What is logical is that they called weeks before the draft and not on draft day. If their target was who they got, they didn't need to move up to #2. Do you think they were just going to jump to #2 to get someone they could get at #8? :lol:

[Rex]

PFT sucks worse than watching Slim try to run a 5k

[slim]

PFT sucks worse than watching Slim try to run a 5k

Yeah, like that's ever gonna happen.

[Ravage!!!]

It isn't logical to assume that the Falcons would not have been willing to give up the same package for the #2 overall pick as they gave for the #6 overall pick. Which ended up being the #26 overall pick in round 1, second and fourth round picks in 2011, and first and fourth in 2012. Probably considering the added value of #2, Falcons would have gone first and second in 2012.

That left Denver at #26 with three second rounders. Combining the 26 with one of the second round picks would move them back into the area where they could still draft a good defensive prospect. There was no clear delineation this year among the top defensive prospects.

So far the only thing you've provided is what you consider to be logical assumptions and pure conjecture. Nothing of substance and not one ounce of fact.

You'll have to understand that very few people are going take your perspective as anything other than fiction. After all, we can theorize that sprites and fairies do exist, and then assume they must be VERY good hiders by the fact that none have been found..yet.

[LTC Pain]

So far the only thing you've provided is what you consider to be logical assumptions and pure conjecture. Nothing of substance and not one ounce of fact.

You'll have to understand that very few people are going take your perspective as anything other than fiction. After all, we can theorize that sprites and fairies do exist, and then assume they must be VERY good hiders by the fact that none have been found..yet.

ROFLMAO! Classic right there sir. :laugh: :salute:

[robert ethan]

A telephone works both ways. Given that the Broncos at least had to know that the Falcons were looking to move up, I'm sure the two teams could have come up with something. Teams that make deals are proactive. Sitting by the phone waiting for something to drop in your lap probably doesn't go very far. Linebacker is not a premium draft position to address for any team. They are the running backs of the defense.

[Ravage!!!]

Right. So we weren't looking to trade down to 26 with Atlanta. I'm VERy thankful for THAT!!

Now we have to take in MORE assumptions made, that since Denver (and nearly every other team in the NFL) didn't make a deal to move from #2, they aren't/weren't proactive. :lol:

[slim]

I am more upset about the nonoffer from TEN that we failed to accept.

I think moving back to 8 would have been ideal.

[TXBRONC]

I am more upset about the nonoffer from TEN that we failed to accept.

I think moving back to 8 would have been ideal.

Damn Titans. :tsk:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

A telephone works both ways. Given that the Broncos at least had to know that the Falcons were looking to move up, I'm sure the two teams could have come up with something. Teams that make deals are proactive. Sitting by the phone waiting for something to drop in your lap probably doesn't go very far. Linebacker is not a premium draft position to address for any team. They are the running backs of the defense.

The Broncos have received from an A to a B from the "draft experts". Most others feel they did just fine - EXCEPT for those who are bent out of shape because they did not turn backflips to get THEIR FAVORITE COLLEGE PLAYER.

[TXBRONC]

The Broncos have received from an A to a B from the "draft experts". Most others feel they did just fine - EXCEPT for those who are bent out of shape because they did not turn backflips to get THEIR FAVORITE COLLEGE PLAYER.

I personally don't put a lot stock the grades. But what it does shows is that people who have no dog in the hunt can look our draft that attp we had a good draft.

[robert ethan]

When you're picking second overall in the draft and have an extra high second round pick, you better get an A or a B. Although to be fair the auction for the top two quarterbacks didn't materialize. I have no idea what knocked Gabbert down. To me he was easily the best quarterback prospect in the draft.

[Poet]

A telephone works both ways. Given that the Broncos at least had to know that the Falcons were looking to move up, I'm sure the two teams could have come up with something. Teams that make deals are proactive. Sitting by the phone waiting for something to drop in your lap probably doesn't go very far. Linebacker is not a premium draft position to address for any team. They are the running backs of the defense.

Yes, because guys like DeMarcus Ware and Clay Mathews Jr. grow on tree.

It's atypical to take a LB that high. Then again, a guy like Von Miller is an atypical player.

This year's draft had about five guys who had an honest claim as being the best player in the draft. Denver, and every other team in the top five, got one of those players.

[TXBRONC]

Yes, because guys like DeMarcus Ware and Clay Mathews Jr. grow on tree.

It's atypical to take a LB that high. Then again, a guy like Von Miller is an atypical player.

This year's draft had about five guys who had an honest claim as being the best player in the draft. Denver, and every other team in the top five, got one of those players.

Newton's place in the top five is by default. If Andrew Luck had come out I don't think Cam would have gone in the top five.

[Poet]

Newton's place in the top five is by default. If Andrew Luck had come out I don't think Cam would have gone in the top five.

Newton had to go in the top five. Even if Luck comes out, I still think Cincinnati (ugh) takes him, and then a different player gets pushed out.

Newton is a top five talent overall. I just wouldn't touch him because of his hubris. If he wasn't so arrogant I would have welcomed the pick.

[TXBRONC]

Newton had to go in the top five. Even if Luck comes out, I still think Cincinnati (ugh) takes him, and then a different player gets pushed out.

Newton is a top five talent overall. I just wouldn't touch him because of his hubris. If he wasn't so arrogant I would have welcomed the pick.

Why would have to go in the top five? The guys who went after Newton were more worthy of their spots in the top five than Newton was. Top ten maybe but top five I seriously doubt it.

[Poet]

Why would have to go in the top five? The guys who went after Newton were more worthy of their spots in the top five than Newton was. Top ten maybe but top five I seriously doubt it.

No one HAS to go, but he's one of the most talented prospects of all time. The better question is why wouldn't he go?

Newton was worth of a top five spot. His talent level was equal to or arguably above Peterson, Von Miller, Dareus and Green. If you put Luck in, he goes first.

So at that point, let's say Denver takes VM, again that's a fair assumption. The Bills loved Newton, he would have probably gone there. The Bengals loved Newton, if he doesn't go to Buffalo, he's a Mike Brown pick all the way. The Cardinals would have taken a hard look at him too.

[robert ethan]

Miller may be great, although I don't get the feeling from him. Broncos took two players in the seventh round. One of them, Virgil Green, is about the same size as Miller (bit bigger) and tested better across the board. Speed, strength, explosiveness. The other, Jeremy Beal, is bigger and less athletic, but played the same position in the same conference and had slightly better stats over the past 4 years in college.

[LTC Pain]

Miller may be great, although I don't get the feeling from him. Broncos took two players in the seventh round. One of them, Virgil Green, is about the same size as Miller (bit bigger) and tested better across the board. Speed, strength, explosiveness. The other, Jeremy Beal, is bigger and less athletic, but played the same position in the same conference and had slightly better stats over the past 4 years in college.

Umm, why are you comparing OLBs (Miller/Beal) to a TE (Green)?

[TXBRONC]

No one HAS to go, but he's one of the most talented prospects of all time. The better question is why wouldn't he go?

Newton was worth of a top five spot. His talent level was equal to or arguably above Peterson, Von Miller, Dareus and Green. If you put Luck in, he goes first.

So at that point, let's say Denver takes VM, again that's a fair assumption. The Bills loved Newton, he would have probably gone there. The Bengals loved Newton, if he doesn't go to Buffalo, he's a Mike Brown pick all the way. The Cardinals would have taken a hard look at him too.

One of the most talented prospects of all time? That's a stretch imho. You are entitled to think what you and I respect but you are not being consistent. Newton is either shoulders above Peterson, Miller, Dareus, and Green or he's not. Honestly there isn't snowball's chance in hell that he's better than the other four again imo. Besides that I recall how many times over past few years hearing difficult it is to evaluate these quarterbacks that come out of spread offenses. But all of sudden Cam Newton was easy to evaluate? I don't think so.

Andrew Luck in this changes everything for the rest of the quarterbacks in this draft. It wasn't about until the last few weeks leading up to the draft that Newton's name came out as the number one overall pick. I could see very easily everything else falling the way it did with Andrew Luck as the overall number one pick. Maybe the Bengals take him but I still strong doubts that they would have pulled the trigger. The same with Cardinals. Newton had a prolific year but I don't think one year makes him worthy of a top five pick with Andrew Luck in the mix.

I think it was Mike Mayock who said Cam Newton ought take Andrew Luck out to dinner and thank him profusely for not coming this year. Again I respect your opinion but I just don't see Cam being a lock for the top five if Andrew Luck had decided to make himself available for the draft.

[TXBRONC]

Umm, why are you comparing OLBs (Miller/Beal) to a TE (Green)?

Does the term grasping at straws mean anything to you? :lol:

[robert ethan]

Umm, why are you comparing OLBs (Miller/Beal) to a TE (Green)?
Because one of them was taken #2 overall, and the other two were taken in the seventh round of the draft. I don't think the seventh rounders broke down blubbering behind their GQ glasses when they were picked, either. Even though they probably had a lot more reason to cry. What's with that crap, anyway? Miller and Moore both. What did they think they weren't going to get drafted?:confused:

[slim]

Miller may be great, although I don't get the feeling from him. Broncos took two players in the seventh round. One of them, Virgil Green, is about the same size as Miller (bit bigger) and tested better across the board. Speed, strength, explosiveness. The other, Jeremy Beal, is bigger and less athletic, but played the same position in the same conference and had slightly better stats over the past 4 years in college.

What kind of feeling did you get from Robert Ayers, Dick Quinn and Alphonso Smith?

[robert ethan]

What kind of feeling did you get from Robert Ayers, Dick Quinn and Alphonso Smith?

Wasn't paying a lot of attention when those guys were drafted. But I think Ayers has shown he can be an impact player if he stays healthy. Smith was starting in Detroit and leading the league in interceptions at one point, I think. Quinn, I have no clue about. He was drafted as a blocker and presumably that is why he is still around. Graham is gone now, maybe he gets more playing time. But those guys weren't taken with the second overall pick of the draft.

[TXBRONC]

Wasn't paying a lot of attention when those guys were drafted. But I think Ayers has shown he can be an impact player if he stays healthy. Smith was starting in Detroit and leading the league in interceptions at one point, I think. Quinn, I have no clue about. He was drafted as a blocker and presumably that is why he is still around. Graham is gone now, maybe he gets more playing time. But those guys weren't taken with the second overall pick of the draft.

Ayers showed signs of improvement but not enough to say he will eventually be an impact player.

[robert ethan]

Ayers showed signs of improvement but not enough to say he will eventually be an impact player.

Mike Mayock said he would take longer to develop but that he thought he could be the best defensive player out of that draft in three years. He wasn't considering the position changes that Ayers would have to undergo, either.

[TXBRONC]

Mike Mayock said he would take longer to develop but that he thought he could be the best defensive player out of that draft in three years. He wasn't considering the position changes that Ayers would have to undergo, either.

That's neither here nor there. You said Ayers has shown he can be an impact player I'm saying to this point he hasn't.

[LTC Pain]

Because one of them was taken #2 overall, and the other two were taken in the seventh round of the draft. I don't think the seventh rounders broke down blubbering behind their GQ glasses when they were picked, either. Even though they probably had a lot more reason to cry. What's with that crap, anyway? Miller and Moore both. What did they think they weren't going to get drafted?:confused:

1) Apparently you've made your own conclusion concerning the "lesser value" of Miller if all you can do is look at workout/Combine numbers and say "they are the same" or similar to Green/Beal. Seems like a ton of scouts, NFL pundits and fans diametrically disagree with you about Miller's skillset, potential and impact Miller will have compared to those drafted later. Think. There are reasons why Miller was projected and drafted early and why Green/Beal weren't. If as you describe workout numbers are similar then it must be something else. :listen:

2) You have also concluded that being drafted and walking across the stage to shake the hand/hug the commissioner is not a pinnacle, culimnating event for these young men. I believe you called it "crap" for Miller getting emotional. Either you're quite insensitive or truly fail to grasp what kind of moment it is for some of them. Hell, I was glad and clapping to see Miller release his emotions. What's wrong with that? I suppose you expected after all these players have been through and sacrificed to get there name called at the NFL draft they should act like benign frickin robots?

[robert ethan]

1) 2) You have also concluded that being drafted and walking across the stage to shake the hand/hug the commissioner is not a pinnacle, culimnating event for these young men. I believe you called it "crap" for Miller getting emotional. Either you're quite insensitive or truly fail to grasp what kind of moment it is for some of them. Hell, I was glad and clapping to see Miller release his emotions. What's wrong with that? I suppose you expected after all these players have been through and sacrificed to get there name called at the NFL draft they should act like benign frickin robots?

Well, there are lots of ways to show emotion in that situation. Blubbering into Momma's shoulder for 10 minutes in front of an audience of millions isn't the best way. Unless you're angling for a gig on Oprah. He and Moore strike me as way too emo to be exceptional football players. Plus they both still end up looking like dorks for the amount of time and effort they put into their public image. Fairley was probably the only one who looked more ridiculous at the draft and that is only because his mouth hangs open.

[TXBRONC]

1) Apparently you've made your own conclusion concerning the "lesser value" of Miller if all you can do is look at workout/Combine numbers and say "they are the same" or similar to Green/Beal. Seems like a ton of scouts, NFL pundits and fans diametrically disagree with you about Miller's skillset, potential and impact Miller will have compared to those drafted later. Think. There are reasons why Miller was projected and drafted early and why Green/Beal weren't. If as you describe workout numbers are similar then it must be something else. :listen:

2) You have also concluded that being drafted and walking across the stage to shake the hand/hug the commissioner is not a pinnacle, culimnating event for these young men. I believe you called it "crap" for Miller getting emotional. Either you're quite insensitive or truly fail to grasp what kind of moment it is for some of them. Hell, I was glad and clapping to see Miller release his emotions. What's wrong with that? I suppose you expected after all these players have been through and sacrificed to get there name called at the NFL draft they should act like benign frickin robots?

I don't give a rat's ass that Miller cried after being drafted. If comes in helps our defense I'll be happy.