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View Full Version : What FA DT would you want?



Agent of Orange
05-01-2011, 08:30 PM
This seems fairly updated.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011DT.php

Understand that a few guys may be off limits depending on what happens with the 4 vs 6 years you sometimes hear about.

SmilinAssasSin27
05-01-2011, 08:43 PM
mebane

Agent of Orange
05-01-2011, 08:46 PM
It kind of sucks that Mebane could be affected by them changing from 4 to 6 years.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-01-2011, 09:31 PM
Mebane if he's available (swing a trade and dangle Orton to the QB-less Seahwaks). Jenkins if we can't get Mebane.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-01-2011, 09:32 PM
Mebane if he's available (swing a trade and dangle Orton to the QB-less Seahwaks). Jenkins if we can't get Mebane.

Technically, we need more than one so Mebane/Jenkins/Patterson. Any 2 of those 3.

SmilinAssasSin27
05-01-2011, 09:32 PM
well...we know who the fans want...

HORSEPOWER 56
05-01-2011, 09:44 PM
I'm pretty sure Seattle wants Mebane back and is going to do what they can to re-sign him.

We really do need to make a push for him, though.

LTC Pain
05-01-2011, 10:02 PM
Re-sign Thomas and get two FA DTs that can stop the frickin run!

Agent of Orange
05-01-2011, 10:16 PM
I'm pretty sure Seattle wants Mebane back and is going to do what they can to re-sign him.

We really do need to make a push for him, though.

Has he said he wants to go back? If not, all bets are off now.

tomjonesrocks
05-01-2011, 10:18 PM
It does seem Mebane or bust unless God forbid there's actually some truth to the Haynesworth rumors...

Would not surprise me if Denver couldn't close the deal on anyone though.

Would rather be shopping through that OT or S list instead.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-01-2011, 10:21 PM
Has he said he wants to go back? If not, all bets are off now.

I hadn't heard, but if Seattle matches any offers he gets, I doubt he'll go elsewhere. Nobody wants to move your family, sell your house, etc if they don't have to.

The hometown discount still exists even if it's just matching the offer and hoping the guy doesn't want to move... ;)

I have no doubt some other team would've offered Champ more money had he waited for FA instead of re-signing with us. Champ is a member of the Denver community and didn't want to leave. That's why he took a little less money to stay a Bronco.

Agent of Orange
05-01-2011, 10:26 PM
I hadn't heard, but if Seattle matches any offers he gets, I doubt he'll go elsewhere. Nobody wants to move your family, sell your house, etc if they don't have to.

The hometown discount still exists even if it's just matching the offer and hoping the guy doesn't want to move... ;)

I have no doubt some other team would've offered Champ more money had he waited for FA instead of re-signing with us. Champ is a member of the Denver community and didn't want to leave. That's why he took a little less money to stay a Bronco.

Is he a RFA?

TXBRONC
05-01-2011, 10:39 PM
Mebane and Cullen Jenkins.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-01-2011, 10:42 PM
Is he a RFA?

I'm not sure. If the rules don't change and he's a UFA after 4 years (which is the way it was under the old CBA), he's an UFA not an RFA. If a new CBA is signed, then it could be as long as 6 years (something the owners are pushing for) until a guy is eligible to be a UFA making him an RFA this year. If the lawsuit holds up and we play football based on last year's uncapped year rules, he's still an RFA (6 year rule went into effect).

Confusing enough for ya? :confused: ;)

Although, if we do play under last year's rules, guys like Thomas and Harris (who we tendered) would be RFAs, too so there's no guarantee they are going anywhere, either.

Now, picture this:

The Ravens placed the franchise tag on Haloti Ngata. The players want UFA to take effect after 4 years (as it has) and they want the franchise tag option eliminated in the new CBA which would prevent teams from being able to franchise players to keep them from leaving. The owners want the franchise tag to stay and want UFA eligibility to go out to 6 years.

If the players get there way, not only would Ngata be an UFA, but he'd also immediately be free of the franchise tag and open to sign with any team. Could you imagine the frenzy?

GEM
05-01-2011, 10:44 PM
Lets keep it on topic, please.

Agent of Orange
05-01-2011, 10:45 PM
This seems fairly updated.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011DT.php

Understand that a few guys may be off limits depending on what happens with the 4 vs 6 years you sometimes hear about.


I'm not sure. If the rules don't change and he's a UFA after 4 years (which is the way it was under the old CBA), he's an UFA not an RFA. If a new CBA is signed, then it could be as long as 6 years (something the owners are pushing for) until a guy is eligible to be a UFA making him an RFA this year. If the lawsuit holds up and we play football based on last year's uncapped year rules, he's still an RFA (6 year rule went into effect).

Confusing enough for ya? :confused: ;)

Although, if we do play under last year's rules, guys like Thomas and Harris (who we tendered) would be RFAs, too so there's no guarantee they are going anywhere, either.

Now, picture this:

The Ravens placed the franchise tag on Haloti Ngata. The players want UFA to take effect after 4 years (as it has) and they want the franchise tag option eliminated in the new CBA which would prevent teams from being able to franchise players to keep them from leaving. The owners want the franchise tag to stay and want UFA eligibility to go out to 6 years.

If the players get there way, not only would Ngata be an UFA, but he'd also immediately be free of the franchise tag and open to sign with any team. Could you imagine the frenzy?

I was aware of this and addressed it at the outset.

topscribe
05-01-2011, 11:14 PM
I suppose the Browncos are no longer an option? :look:







Then I suppose about any one of the above may be an upgrade.

Someone Else intrigues me . . .



-----

Ziggy
05-01-2011, 11:28 PM
Ngata would be a dream come true. Give the Ravens the draft picks and make him the highest paid tackle in the NFL.

Lonestar
05-01-2011, 11:40 PM
Haloti Ngata, DT, Ravens. without a doubt the best of the DT..

Hell I wanted him when mikey dafted jay.

shank
05-02-2011, 01:18 AM
bring back thomas and sign 2 others, one of which is mebane. if there is any truth to the haynesworth rumors, mebane still should be our #1 FA target.

DenBronx
05-02-2011, 02:06 AM
Mebane and Cullen Jenkins.

either one of those guys sounds much much better than paea or austin anyway. would put 95% of the spazzers arguments to rest that think EFX doesnt want to stop the run.

looks like we are going to make a splash in the DL free agent pool.

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 08:41 AM
You guys are dreaming.
Great way to run a buisness. Hope you can get the desperately needed stock by ignoring it when its available, and just hoping its there later at a discount no less!
Mebane aint goin anywhere unless DEN offers a 60-75 MIL dollar contract.
Hes a Pro Bowler for the next 10 years, and SEA knows it. They will simply match any
offer and he will stay. Your dreaming.
Cofield or Jenkins might, MIGHT! come to a 4-12 team, but they will still need to be lured away with a pretty big contract. NYG/GB have a ton of defensive talent, but they also are playoff teams that win. DEN sucks, so they will have to over pay for these players.
This is what happens when a team ignores their glaring needs.
Hope for something good to happen.

TXBRONC
05-02-2011, 08:48 AM
either one of those guys sounds much much better than paea or austin anyway. would put 95% of the spazzers arguments to rest that think EFX doesnt want to stop the run.

looks like we are going to make a splash in the DL free agent pool.

I hope it's a splash and not a belly flop.

TXBRONC
05-02-2011, 08:50 AM
You guys are dreaming.
Great way to run a buisness. Hope you can get the desperately needed stock by ignoring it when its available, and just hoping its there later at a discount no less!
Mebane aint goin anywhere unless DEN offers a 60-75 MIL dollar contract.
Hes a Pro Bowler for the next 10 years, and SEA knows it. They will simply match any
offer and he will stay. Your dreaming.
Cofield or Jenkins might, MIGHT! come to a 4-12 team, but they will still need to be lured away with a pretty big contract. NYG/GB have a ton of defensive talent, but they also are playoff teams that win. DEN sucks, so they will have to over pay for these players.
This is what happens when a team ignores their glaring needs.
Hope for something good to happen.

Even if we were good team it would more than likely take a big contract to land a top flight free agent defensive tackle.

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 08:53 AM
Even if we were good team it would more than likely take a big contract to land a top flight free agent defensive tackle.

No kidding! Thats why it was so importnant to land them in the draft!
They are the MOST coveted players in the NFL. They rarely if ever leave
the team that drafted them. And for good reason. Defensive linemen win games. Yeah, sure theres a headcase, nutjob like Haynesworth every once in a while, but for the most part they are paid well by their respective teams and when FA comes up those teams simply match any offer, and keep them.
If DEN is going to get a top notch DT, they will have to really over pay. Huge.

TXBRONC
05-02-2011, 09:06 AM
No kidding! Thats why it was so importnant to land them in the draft!
They are the MOST coveted players in the NFL. They rarely if ever leave
the team that drafted them. And for good reason. Defensive linemen win games. Yeah, sure theres a headcase, nutjob like Haynesworth every once in a while, but for the most part they are paid well by their respective teams and when FA comes up those teams simply match any offer, and keep them.
If DEN is going to get a top notch DT, they will have to really over pay. Huge.

I really wanted us to draft a couple of defensive tackles and we didn't so that is disappointing. That can't be undone so now Denver has to find away land a top flight defensive tackle. Quite honestly I would rather Denver over pay and get a quality free agent defensive tackle than go out and pick up another Jamal Williams type who is past his prime or some guy whose been nothing more than a second teir player his entire career like Justin Bannan.

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 09:16 AM
I really wanted us to draft a couple of defensive tackles and we didn't so that is disappointing. That can't be undone so now Denver has to find away land a top flight defensive tackle. Quite honestly I would rather Denver over pay and get a quality free agent defensive tackle than go out and pick up another Jamal Williams type who is past his prime or some guy whose been nothing more than a second teir player his entire career like Justin Bannan.

Well of course thats what you want the DEN FO to do. Now we all have to "hope" that that is what they do.
Only that really is the problem.
"Hoping" that you can get something later to fix the complete cluster**** that is your current problem, isnt a smart buisness plan last time i checked.
I just "hope" that Elway and Fox didnt go into this draft "hoping" that they could get DTs to shore up the WORST defense in the NFL in FA.
That was the plan!!?!?!? Just "hope" that Cofield is gonna have a big heart and take a pretty good contract, leave NY wheres hes played for years, for a winner no less, uproot his family and come to DEN for not really much more money, and play for a team that was the WORST defense in the league last year??
Heres to "hope" :beer:

TXBRONC
05-02-2011, 09:48 AM
Well of course thats what you want the DEN FO to do. Now we all have to "hope" that that is what they do.
Only that really is the problem.
"Hoping" that you can get something later to fix the complete cluster**** that is your current problem, isnt a smart buisness plan last time i checked.
I just "hope" that Elway and Fox didnt go into this draft "hoping" that they could get DTs to shore up the WORST defense in the NFL in FA.
That was the plan!!?!?!? Just "hope" that Cofield is gonna have a big heart and take a pretty good contract, leave NY wheres hes played for years, for a winner no less, uproot his family and come to DEN for not really much more money, and play for a team that was the WORST defense in the league last year??
Heres to "hope" :beer:

I just read today that Cofield might be considered expendable since the Giants drafted Austin. I also take into consideration that free agency is ass backward this year. Normally the big name free agents are either re-signed with their old teams or signed with new teams before draft. EFX sounds they have something in the works once free agency resumes fwiw.

tomjonesrocks
05-02-2011, 09:59 AM
You guys are dreaming.
Great way to run a buisness. Hope you can get the desperately needed stock by ignoring it when its available, and just hoping its there later at a discount no less!
Mebane aint goin anywhere unless DEN offers a 60-75 MIL dollar contract.
Hes a Pro Bowler for the next 10 years, and SEA knows it. They will simply match any ...(snip, etc)

The thread is "want the team to go after". I don't think any of us think this will actually happen.

CoachChaz
05-02-2011, 10:01 AM
For a while I wondered what it would take to convince someone that it's impossible to fill all your needs in ONE draft. I wondered what it would take to help aomeone see that getting 5 position of need as opposed to one was a benefit to the team. I no longer wonder these things because I'm convinced some people are either incapable of seeing past their nose...or simply choose not to see any option other than their own.

I also find it funny when people list ANY 2 DT's as targets. It's the same as how pwople get all gooey in their shorts when they look at Detroit's DT situation. Suh and Fairley and very little else on defense. No one seems to ask the question...who is going to play the nose on early down and distance? Suh doesnt have that experience and I doubt they want him getting banged up doing that and Fairley CANNOT do it. So does Corey Williams or Sammie Hill play 1st and 2nd down and then Fairley or Suh rotate until 3rd down when they can both rush the passer? Fact is...if Detroit wants ANY success...especially since they completely ignored the rest of their miserable defense...Fairley and Suh will rarely be on the field together.

Which brings me back to the point. When you are putting together your DT wish list and it's headed by Mabane...you might want to add a nose type tackle to play next to him. Anything other than Franklin , Patterson, Cofield simply wont work on multiple down situations. The name dropping wish list is much easier to read when we undestand the game, the position and how to effectively utilize players in an NFL defense.

BeefStew25
05-02-2011, 10:03 AM
Bam!

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 10:11 AM
For a while I wondered what it would take to convince someone that it's impossible to fill all your needs in ONE draft. I wondered what it would take to help aomeone see that getting 5 position of need as opposed to one was a benefit to the team. I no longer wonder these things because I'm convinced some people are either incapable of seeing past their nose...or simply choose not to see any option other than their own.

I also find it funny when people list ANY 2 DT's as targets. It's the same as how pwople get all gooey in their shorts when they look at Detroit's DT situation. Suh and Fairley and very little else on defense. No one seems to ask the question...who is going to play the nose on early down and distance? Suh doesnt have that experience and I doubt they want him getting banged up doing that and Fairley CANNOT do it. So does Corey Williams or Sammie Hill play 1st and 2nd down and then Fairley or Suh rotate until 3rd down when they can both rush the passer? Fact is...if Detroit wants ANY success...especially since they completely ignored the rest of their miserable defense...Fairley and Suh will rarely be on the field together.

Which brings me back to the point. When you are putting together your DT wish list and it's headed by Mabane...you might want to add a nose type tackle to play next to him. Anything other than Franklin , Patterson, Cofield simply wont work on multiple down situations. The name dropping wish list is much easier to read when we undestand the game, the position and how to effectively utilize players in an NFL defense.

Exactly. I think M.Thomas is already the best option DEN has as of today.
It would have been nice to pair him up with a Kendrick Ellis. Oh well.
I honestly dont know where DEN goes now. Theres just no way in hell they should bring back Jamal Williams, i mean this is getting embarassing if they do. Whats he 40? Bannan is useless and a career back up.
Opposing teams are simply going to use last years scheme.
Pound the rock, make DEN stack the box, and then throw all over them.

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 10:15 AM
The thread is "want the team to go after". I don't think any of us think this will actually happen.

No sane person living in reality. I mean DEN might try to get him to bite, but anyone who thinks Carroll is just gonna let his Pro Bowl calibur DT leave without making him a huge contract offer is simply insane.
Hes considered a 10 year, Pro Bowl investment at the DT spot.
You dont let those guys walk.

TXBRONC
05-02-2011, 10:16 AM
either one of those guys sounds much much better than paea or austin anyway. would put 95% of the spazzers arguments to rest that think EFX doesnt want to stop the run.

looks like we are going to make a splash in the DL free agent pool.

They are proven but they will also be a lot more expensive.

CoachChaz
05-02-2011, 10:23 AM
Exactly. I think M.Thomas is already the best option DEN has as of today.
It would have been nice to pair him up with a Kendrick Ellis. Oh well.
I honestly dont know where DEN goes now. Theres just no way in hell they should bring back Jamal Williams, i mean this is getting embarassing if they do. Whats he 40? Bannan is useless and a career back up.
Opposing teams are simply going to use last years scheme.
Pound the rock, make DEN stack the box, and then throw all over them.

Which is why I would be okay with scenarios that do not immediately consist of the BIG names. We dont need a Mebane to be successful. Maybe with outside pressure, Thomas is better. If we add a Haynesworth for a year or two and he plays even just decently, he's going to demand double teams and open things up. I like Vickerson in that mix as well. Even if we dont go the route of Haynesworth, there are still options that wont cost the farm and can help us be competent, if not successful until we can focus on drafting our own studs.

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 10:32 AM
Which is why I would be okay with scenarios that do not immediately consist of the BIG names. We dont need a Mebane to be successful. Maybe with outside pressure, Thomas is better. If we add a Haynesworth for a year or two and he plays even just decently, he's going to demand double teams and open things up. I like Vickerson in that mix as well. Even if we dont go the route of Haynesworth, there are still options that wont cost the farm and can help us be competent, if not successful until we can focus on drafting our own studs.

When i 1st saw Haynesworth being thrown around in trade options, i was nauseated. Then after quickly coming to the conclusion that DEN was truly screwed on the D-line still, and there is no option in FA really other than high priced players like Cofield who is a DE/DT disruptor, i realized that Haynesworth may be our best option, even including the FA options.
It would have to be a contract with alot of stipulations. 2 year max too.

Ayers
MThomas
Haynesworth
Dumervil
With "Lasik" screaming in from the SAM/DE "Panther" position.

CoachChaz
05-02-2011, 10:46 AM
When i 1st saw Haynesworth being thrown around in trade options, i was nauseated. Then after quickly coming to the conclusion that DEN was truly screwed on the D-line still, and there is no option in FA really other than high priced players like Cofield who is a DE/DT disruptor, i realized that Haynesworth may be our best option, even including the FA options.
It would have to be a contract with alot of stipulations. 2 year max too.

Ayers
MThomas
Haynesworth
Dumervil
With "Lasik" screaming in from the SAM/DE "Panther" position.

2 years is what I said at first, too. a year to get us by and a year to give a rookie someone to compete against.

Add Beal to the DE's and Vickerson to the DT's and while it's not a dream come true...it's not all that bad of a front 4 either.

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 10:49 AM
2 years is what I said at first, too. a year to get us by and a year to give a rookie someone to compete against.

Add Beal to the DE's and Vickerson to the DT's and while it's not a dream come true...it's not all that bad of a front 4 either.

Its a solid rotation, but there needs to be a big fatty to run stuff, next to M.Thomas.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-02-2011, 11:03 AM
Its a solid rotation, but there needs to be a big fatty to run stuff, next to M.Thomas.

Isn't Vickerson our "big fatty"? 6'5", 330+ lbs. He's not our penetrating 3 tech, that's for sure.

Marcus Thomas, if he comes back, might be okay as a 3 technique (but after this long, he really hasn't even established himself as a starter). We really need to find a good-great 3 technique and at least one more rotational guy to really make this defense work. If not all that edge rush that Doom and Miller bring will be negated as the QB just steps up into the pocket and they are forced wide.

We must find someone who can collapse the pocket up the middle. If not, Miller and Dumervil won't be anywhere near as a big a factor as they could be. It will also leave us extremely vulnerable to the draw play on 3rd down because there will be nobody to play the run up the middle.

CoachChaz
05-02-2011, 11:12 AM
Its a solid rotation, but there needs to be a big fatty to run stuff, next to M.Thomas.

I think that's where Hayneworth would come in...assuming he would be here. If nothing else, we at least know he's "capable" of playing the run and stuffing running lanes. I'm also okay with Vickerson in that role. We can say what we will about Denver's run defense last year, but the guy did have 42 tackles playing out of his natural position

Traveler
05-02-2011, 11:39 AM
Isn't Vickerson our "big fatty"? 6'5", 330+ lbs. He's not our penetrating 3 tech, that's for sure.

Marcus Thomas, if he comes back, might be okay as a 3 technique (but after this long, he really hasn't even established himself as a starter). We really need to find a good-great 3 technique and at least one more rotational guy to really make this defense work. If not all that edge rush that Doom and Miller bring will be negated as the QB just steps up into the pocket and they are forced wide.

We must find someone who can collapse the pocket up the middle. If not, Miller and Dumervil won't be anywhere near as a big a factor as they could be. It will also leave us extremely vulnerable to the draw play on 3rd down because there will be nobody to play the run up the middle.

This! Marcus Thomas has had plenty of time to establish himself. He hasn't! I discount the last two years under McDaniels because he miscast.

Thomas did play in a 4-3 before then and still has done nothing. Pass!

BeefStew25
05-02-2011, 11:40 AM
I say keep Thomas. DT's take a couple of years to get going, right? Well, it may be dumb to unload him now. He isn't awful. He seems to get into the mix a bit.

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 11:50 AM
I think that's where Hayneworth would come in...assuming he would be here. If nothing else, we at least know he's "capable" of playing the run and stuffing running lanes. I'm also okay with Vickerson in that role. We can say what we will about Denver's run defense last year, but the guy did have 42 tackles playing out of his natural position

I think Vickerson isnt the answer. Were overreaching there.
M.Thomas will be fine. He just needs to go back to his conventional position for really the 1st time in his NFL career. But he needs a big Haynesworth type player next to him.
I hate to say it, but Haynesworth might be the best option including the DTs in FA.
Really Mebane (which lets face it, isnt goin anywhere) while he would be nice, isnt the player to go next to MThomas anyways.
Cofield- Could be a nice addition, but chances are slim he splits. Hes very versatile though. Can play in a # of different schemes from anywhere on the d-line. Again, not the ideal player DEN needs though.
Cullen Jenkins-Ditto.
The rest of the DT FA class this year are no better than Jim McBean and Bill Vickerson, so were screwed there.
Haynesworth is the only player left.

CoachChaz
05-02-2011, 12:01 PM
I think Vickerson isnt the answer. Were overreaching there.
M.Thomas will be fine. He just needs to go back to his conventional position for really the 1st time in his NFL career. But he needs a big Haynesworth type player next to him.
I hate to say it, but Haynesworth might be the best option including the DTs in FA.
Really Mebane (which lets face it, isnt goin anywhere) while he would be nice, isnt the player to go next to MThomas anyways.
Cofield- Could be a nice addition, but chances are slim he splits. Hes very versatile though. Can play in a # of different schemes from anywhere on the d-line. Again, not the ideal player DEN needs though.
Cullen Jenkins-Ditto.
The rest of the DT FA class this year are no better than Jim McBean and Bill Vickerson, so were screwed there.
Haynesworth is the only player left.

Patterson is pretty solid vs the run and I'm not sure Cofield is a lock in NY. Rocky Benard, Canty, Linval Joseph...and now Austin. I think they let Cofield walk.

No, he's not the perfect pairing with Thomas and Patterson isnt high end either, but it's at least an option for a year until we can get our guys via draft.

GEM
05-02-2011, 12:08 PM
My thought is....if we grabbed a DT, some would be bitching about the lack of LBer's. If we would have grabbed 2 DT's, some would be bitching about the lack of S's and having Hill and Dawkins and really no depth.

This defense has so many holes that no matter what we would have done, there would still be glaring holes. That isn't on this FO, it's been an issue for a decade.

CoachChaz
05-02-2011, 12:09 PM
My thought is....if we grabbed a DT, some would be bitching about the lack of LBer's. If we would have grabbed 2 DT's, some would be bitching about the lack of S's and having Hill and Dawkins and really no depth.

This defense has so many holes that no matter what we would have done, there would still be glaring holes. That isn't on this FO, it's been an issue for a decade.

Triple high five for you, young lady!!!!

topscribe
05-02-2011, 12:09 PM
This! Marcus Thomas has had plenty of time to establish himself. He hasn't! I discount the last two years under McDaniels because he miscast.

Thomas did play in a 4-3 before then and still has done nothing. Pass!

As I remember, that was when Thomas had first come into the league. He had
been out of football for a year, so he was not only a rookie, but a rusty one.
It has been said many times how it takes a couple years for a DT to come
around.

So, once again, we have extenuating circumstances. Thomas was once
graded as a first-round talent, and he has not yet been allowed to play in
circumstances that would reveal what he really can do. Nonetheless, he
has been serviceable, even playing out of his natural position, so he is
worth keeping around to see how he turns out once back in it, IMO.

-----

GEM
05-02-2011, 12:18 PM
As I remember, that was when Thomas had first come into the league. He had
been out of football for a year, so he was not only a rookie, but a rusty one.
It has been said many times how it takes a couple years for a DT to come
around.

So, once again, we have extenuating circumstances. Thomas was once
graded as a first-round talent, and he has not yet been allowed to play in
circumstances that would reveal what he really can do. Nonetheless, he
has been serviceable, even playing out of his natural position, so he is
worth keeping around to see how he turns out once back in it, IMO.

-----

Thomas also was a 4-3 the year Shanny took him. The next year we switched to 3-4 and he was used as a rotational player behind some old vets in a different scheme. Let's see what he can do this year in his accustomed 4-3 and if he's a starter rather than a rotation.

topscribe
05-02-2011, 12:26 PM
My thought is....if we grabbed a DT, some would be bitching about the lack of LBer's. If we would have grabbed 2 DT's, some would be bitching about the lack of S's and having Hill and Dawkins and really no depth.

This defense has so many holes that no matter what we would have done, there would still be glaring holes. That isn't on this FO, it's been an issue for a decade.

Thanks to our brain trust up there, it might now be more appropriate to say
the defense had many holes. :beer:

-----

TXBRONC
05-02-2011, 12:36 PM
My thought is....if we grabbed a DT, some would be bitching about the lack of LBer's. If we would have grabbed 2 DT's, some would be bitching about the lack of S's and having Hill and Dawkins and really no depth.

This defense has so many holes that no matter what we would have done, there would still be glaring holes. That isn't on this FO, it's been an issue for a decade.

I'm good with it. It sure looks to me like EFX had a much sounder draft than their predecessor.

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 12:41 PM
I'm good with it. It sure looks to me like EFX had a much sounder draft than their predecessor.

Dude they basically re-drafted for the MCD draft!LOL!
Ayers-Miller
Moore-McBath
Quinn-JThomas/VGreen.
Bruton-Mohamed
etc,etc.

TXBRONC
05-02-2011, 12:57 PM
Dude they basically re-drafted for the MCD draft!LOL!
Ayers-Miller
Moore-McBath
Quinn-JThomas/VGreen.
Bruton-Mohamed
etc,etc.

That's not exactly the way I see it. Miller is linebacker, Ayers was defensive end that was moved to linebacker. Moore is superior McBath. Thomas and Green are receiving tight ends Quinn has hands of stone and really isn't that good of a blocker. Mohamed is linebacker not a safety. I'll give you Franklin is similar to the Beadles pick but we did need a right tackle unless you want Hochstein playing guard or tackle. Personally I don't because he's just not that good.

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 01:13 PM
That's not exactly the way I see it. Miller is linebacker, Ayers was defensive end that was moved to linebacker. Moore is superior McBath. Thomas and Green are receiving tight ends Quinn has hands of stone and really isn't that good of a blocker. Mohamed is linebacker not a safety. I'll give you Franklin is similar to the Beadles pick but we did need a right tackle unless you want Hochstein playing guard or tackle. Personally I don't because he's just not that good.

What i am saying is they drafted the same positions all over again! LOL!
I think all those players will be better (Moore i will hold judgement on)
Just shows you what they thought of Joshy.

LTC Pain
05-02-2011, 01:18 PM
That's not exactly the way I see it. Miller is linebacker, Ayers was defensive end that was moved to linebacker. Moore is superior McBath. Thomas and Green are receiving tight ends Quinn has hands of stone and really isn't that good of a blocker. Mohamed is linebacker not a safety. I'll give you Franklin is similar to the Beadles pick but we did need a right tackle unless you want Hochstein playing guard or tackle. Personally I don't because he's just not that good.

I'd much rather have Franklin protecting Tebow's blindside than Hochstein!!!

tomjonesrocks
05-02-2011, 02:59 PM
:beer:
either one of those guys sounds much much better than paea or austin anyway. would put 95% of the spazzers arguments to rest that think EFX doesnt want to stop the run.

looks like we are going to make a splash in the DL free agent pool.

Not trying to be a dick, but I feel the same way about our new OT. He's better than the FA options out there? Harris was really THAT bad? Just asking the question.

topscribe
05-02-2011, 03:25 PM
:beer:

Not trying to be a dick, but I feel the same way about our new OT. He's better than the FA options out there? Harris was really THAT bad? Just asking the question.

You have a point. I hope they reach out and try to keep Harris.

Regarding the DTs, whereas a rookie would take a year or two to acclimate to
the professional level, veteran FAs could just come in and play. My hopes are
that they re-sign Thomas, bring Bannan back, and sign a FA or two. As
many here have indicated, Mebane would be nice . . .

-----

BroncoStud
05-02-2011, 03:28 PM
As I remember, that was when Thomas had first come into the league. He had
been out of football for a year, so he was not only a rookie, but a rusty one.
It has been said many times how it takes a couple years for a DT to come
around.

So, once again, we have extenuating circumstances. Thomas was once
graded as a first-round talent, and he has not yet been allowed to play in
circumstances that would reveal what he really can do. Nonetheless, he
has been serviceable, even playing out of his natural position, so he is
worth keeping around to see how he turns out once back in it, IMO.

-----

I would like to see Thomas get another 2 seasons to prove himself one way or another. He had plenty of upside coming into the NFL and is still young.

Agent of Orange
05-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Thomas also was a 4-3 the year Shanny took him. The next year we switched to 3-4 and he was used as a rotational player behind some old vets in a different scheme. Let's see what he can do this year in his accustomed 4-3 and if he's a starter rather than a rotation.

FWIW, Thomas was a better player in college than Austin.

Agent of Orange
05-02-2011, 04:50 PM
No sane person living in reality. I mean DEN might try to get him to bite, but anyone who thinks Carroll is just gonna let his Pro Bowl calibur DT leave without making him a huge contract offer is simply insane.
Hes considered a 10 year, Pro Bowl investment at the DT spot.
You dont let those guys walk.

Given Denver's aversion to drafting DTs and their inherent risk, you would hope the same could be said about Denver when it comes to making an offer if Mebane is really that good. If you're Denver, its worth it.

Lonestar
05-02-2011, 04:59 PM
Exactly. I think M.Thomas is already the best option DEN has as of today.
It would have been nice to pair him up with a Kendrick Ellis. Oh well.
I honestly dont know where DEN goes now. Theres just no way in hell they should bring back Jamal Williams, i mean this is getting embarassing if they do. Whats he 40? Bannan is useless and a career back up.
Opposing teams are simply going to use last years scheme.
Pound the rock, make DEN stack the box, and then throw all over them.
As it stands we have one count it one DT under contract vickerson and he is the best of the worst. Marcus is a FA unless major changes in the CBA occur.

Coach No one expected All of the issues to be fixed atleast anyone with a brain.

I'm the most DT rich draft in a decade we danced around them all to load up on LB which we could have picked up next year or in FA Aa they are a dime a doZen.

Good to great DT do it come around much. Rarely do they hit as FAs

So intead Of fixing a weak spot for the last decade they loaded up on areas we have players under contract at granted they may not be the bright and shiny ones like what we picked up. But remember we sucked at run defense and becaue if that sucked at getting to the QB.

Does anyone really want the other teams one demensional and having to run because they can't pass.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

SOCALORADO.
05-02-2011, 05:02 PM
As it stands we have one count it one DT under contract vickerson and he is the best of the worst. Marcus is a FA unless major changes in the CBA occur.

Coach No one expected All of the issues to be fixed atleast anyone with a brain.

I'm the most DT rich draft in a decade we danced around them all to load up on LB which we could have picked up next year or in FA Aa they are a dime a doZen.

Good to great DT do it come around much. Rarely do they hit as FAs

So intead Of fixing a weak spot for the last decade they loaded up on areas we have players under contract at granted they may not be the bright and shiny ones like what we picked up. But remember we sucked at run defense and becaue if that sucked at getting to the QB.

Does anyone really want the other teams one demensional and having to run because they can't pass.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

So we agree?

Lonestar
05-02-2011, 05:04 PM
You have a point. I hope they reach out and try to keep Harris.

Regarding the DTs, whereas a rookie would take a year or two to acclimate to
the professional level, veteran FAs could just come in and play. My hopes are
that they re-sign Thomas, bring Bannan back, and sign a FA or two. As
many here have indicated, Mebane would be nice . . .
-----and you have to pay the veteran 2 to 10 times as much. and for theist part once they have a guaranteed money they tend to become fat and happy.

Look at the top teams they prooritize the LOS players getting at least one every other year.

Us? maybe once a decade

Because we are afraid they take to long to develop. That is the Cart before the donkey in This case.

BroncoStud
05-02-2011, 05:16 PM
Would have loved to see Denver pick up a guy like Bowers in round 2. We should have gotten a DT, there is ZERO reason to draft 2 TE's in the later rounds who are similar in skillsets.

If Denver had gotten 1 decent DT then this draft would have been much more impressive. We can't stop the run, it all starts up front.

Lonestar
05-02-2011, 08:26 PM
So we agree?

Pretty much.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
05-02-2011, 10:39 PM
I vote for Cofield and Thomas. Cofield was a part of a more than good Giants run D and use Thomas as a rotation guy. A lot of people like Jenkins. He's good by all means, but he's too injury prone for me to say he's the answer. Use any money you save from going after a 2nd big DT on a RB.

Agent of Orange
05-02-2011, 10:43 PM
I vote for Cofield and Thomas. Cofield was a part of a more than good Giants run D and use Thomas as a rotation guy. A lot of people like Jenkins. He's good by all means, but he's too injury prone for me to say he's the answer. Use any money you save from going after a 2nd big DT on a RB.

Cullen Jenkins is related to Kris Jenkins. Didnt Fox and Kris Jenkins have a falling out?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-02-2011, 10:54 PM
I'd most like Cullen Jenkins and Franklin, but I voted Marcus Thomas, Barry Cofield, and Mebane because they're 3 I think we atleast have a chance of getting. I'd be happy with Thomas and Vickerson starting.....we'll, I'd atleast be content with it.

CrazyHorse
05-03-2011, 02:48 AM
Is Haynesworth an option? If he's motivated he's one of the best.

TXBRONC
05-03-2011, 06:37 AM
Cullen Jenkins is related to Kris Jenkins. Didnt Fox and Kris Jenkins have a falling out?

Paige mentioned that in a recent article and said it was possible it keep Cullen from coming to Denver.

Cugel
05-03-2011, 06:58 PM
I'm pretty sure Seattle wants Mebane back and is going to do what they can to re-sign him.

We really do need to make a push for him, though.

This is the problem with not getting any help in the draft and then depending on signing FAs.

It's the same every year.

First there's this mouth-watering list of potential FAs.

Then several of the top prospects are re-signed by their teams.

Then it turns out that the few remaining players want the Denver Mint, but they don't want to play in Denver. They'd rather go to the Patriots or Cowboys or some team like that.

Then the Broncos interview some "2nd tier" players; like Sam Adams or DeWayne Robertson.

Then there's great hope and expectation that said player will "turn his career around."

Then said player sucks and the defense sucks and the Raiders and Chiefs run right up the middle for big yards.

Then the next year they fire the DC and start over again. :coffee:

Cugel
05-03-2011, 07:01 PM
Is Haynesworth an option? If he's motivated he's one of the best.

A. He's not motivated.

B. He wants a salary equal to the gross national product of Saudi Arabia. :coffee:

Where do you go from $100 million?

topscribe
05-03-2011, 07:14 PM
I'm pretty sure Seattle wants Mebane back and is going to do what they can to re-sign him.

We really do need to make a push for him, though.

I would think Cofield would be more realistic, and he is very good, IMO . . .

-----

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 07:51 AM
I would think Cofield would be more realistic, and he is very good, IMO . . .

-----

Cofield is the player i think DEN has a shot at. Not a good shot, but a possibility. Hes going to be catered to by alot of good teams.
DEN will simply have to OVERPAY. And OVERPAY ALOT to get him.
FA will be very expensive if DEN wants to play that game.

Agent of Orange
05-04-2011, 08:17 AM
Cofield is the player i think DEN has a shot at. Not a good shot, but a possibility. Hes going to be catered to by alot of good teams.
DEN will simply have to OVERPAY. And OVERPAY ALOT to get him.
FA will be very expensive if DEN wants to play that game.

Why should Denver not overpay? Theres a widely held belief that part of the reason they wouldnt want to draft a guy is because it takes a couple of years for him to be productive. So whatever they have to pay an established player should be viewed as insurance against draft risk.

If they're not going to draft someone good, it doesnt bother me as long as they're willing to bring in someone good and not have that be a reason to not spend money elsewhere also.

Traveler
05-04-2011, 08:45 AM
After listening to EFX address the DL issue after the draft, I got the distinct impression they might already have something setup with another team. Just waiting for FA to begin.

Probably wrong for "reading between the lines", but it seemed odd that they didn't select a DT in a draft supposedly deep at that position.

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 08:47 AM
Why should Denver not overpay? Theres a widely held belief that part of the reason they wouldnt want to draft a guy is because it takes a couple of years for him to be productive. So whatever they have to pay an established player should be viewed as insurance against draft risk.

If they're not going to draft someone good, it doesnt bother me as long as they're willing to bring in someone good and not have that be a reason to not spend money elsewhere also.

Jeez, heres the problem.
1st. So what if it takes a couple years for a rookie DT to get "good"? So what? DEN SUCKS! They aint goin to the SB this year or next year. So who cares if it takes a rookie DT time to get good? What? A year? And Hes good?!?!? Whats wrong with that!?!? Who cares!??!?!

2nd. the DT/DE position in FA is an absolute nightmare. Rarely do they ever actually leave their respective teams, and if they do leave, they get Haynesworth (100 mil) or Peppers (65 mil) money $$$$. And its really tough to get them because DEN historically doesnt spend in upwards of 50 million on one guy. There are teams that really, really want Cofield! And just think, Peppers is 31 and Insanesworth is 29. Only teams that want to win now, will spend that kind of dough on a player thats that old. By the time DEN is good, they are 34 years old, and useless. Insaneworth is a possiblity, but the baggage is just huge. 1 mistake, and it was all for nothing. We just went through this with Marshall.
3rd. Who says that the DTs in this years draft, which just so happens to be the deepest draft at 4-3 DT in recent memory are not good!?!? Who!?!?
I do know that CHI and the NYG took Austin and Paea in the 2nd round right where they were graded. Huh. Both those teams seem to have a history of having really good defenses, and always seem to be in the playoffs year in and year out. When is the last time DEN went to the playoffs? Hmm..
1 time in over a decade.
Just be ready week 9 when chokeland is running Bush/McFadden up the gut for 250 yards,(again) and blowing DEN out.

topscribe
05-04-2011, 09:14 AM
Jeez, heres the problem.
1st. So what if it takes a couple years for a rookie DT to get "good"? So what? DEN SUCKS! They aint goin to the SB this year or next year. So who cares if it takes a rookie DT time to get good? What? A year? And Hes good?!?!? Whats wrong with that!?!? Who cares!??!?!

2nd. the DT/DE position in FA is an absolute nightmare. Rarely do they ever actually leave their respective teams, and if they do leave, they get Haynesworth (100 mil) or Peppers (65 mil) money $$$$. And its really tough to get them because DEN historically doesnt spend in upwards of 50 million on one guy. There are teams that really, really want Cofield! And just think, Peppers is 31 and Insanesworth is 29. Only teams that want to win now, will spend that kind of dough on a player thats that old. By the time DEN is good, they are 34 years old, and useless. Insaneworth is a possiblity, but the baggage is just huge. 1 mistake, and it was all for nothing. We just went through this with Marshall.
3rd. Who says that the DTs in this years draft, which just so happens to be the deepest draft at 4-3 DT in recent memory are not good!?!? Who!?!?
I do know that CHI and the NYG took Austin and Paea in the 2nd round right where they were graded. Huh. Both those teams seem to have a history of having really good defenses, and always seem to be in the playoffs year in and year out. When is the last time DEN went to the playoffs? Hmm..
1 time in over a decade.
Just be ready week 9 when chokeland is running Bush/McFadden up the gut for 250 yards,(again) and blowing DEN out.

Fortunately, Fox doesn't share your opinion. He has made it clear that he
wants and intends to win now. And I believe him . . .

-----

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 09:42 AM
Fortunately, Fox doesn't share your opinion. He has made it clear that he
wants and intends to win now. And I believe him . . .

-----

Famous last words, Top. Famous last words.
Sure he doesnt share my opinion. Now i will hold his feet to the fire.

Meanwhile, after hours of hard drinking, Fox has got Bowlen hammered and talked Bowlen into giving him a blank check.
HA!

kennu
05-04-2011, 10:19 AM
I do know that CHI and the NYG took Austin and Paea in the 2nd round right where they were graded. Huh. Both those teams seem to have a history of having really good defenses, and always seem to be in the playoffs year in and year out. When is the last time DEN went to the playoffs? Hmm..
1 time in over a decade.

First of all, the Broncos made the playoffs 4 times in the past decade. And when you say "over a decade," well if you want to expand it to 5 years longer, the Broncos made it 4 times in the previous 5 years, making it a total of 8 out of 15. The Bears went 4 times in the last decade (and didn't make it any times in the 5 years before that, so 4 for 15), and the Giants went 5 times in the last decade (and 7 of the last 15).

So you can quit exaggerating about how those teams make the playoffs every year and your outright lie about the Broncos making it just once in over a decade.

As for defensive rankings:

Rankings in yards...

2001: Den - 8, NYG - 14, Chi - 15
2002: Den - 6, NYG - 9, Chi - 25
2003: Den - 4, NYG - 22, Chi - 14
2004: Den - 4, NYG - 13, Chi - 21
2005: Den - 15, NYG - 24, Chi - 2
2006: Den - 14, NYG - 25, Chi - 5
2007: Den - 19, NYG - 7, Chi - 28
2008: Den - 29, NYG - 5, Chi - 21
2009: Den - 7, NYG - 13, Chi - 17
2010: Den - 32, NYG - 7, Chi - 9

So over the past decade, in yards allowed the Broncos have been the best of those three teams 5 times, in the middle 3 times, and the worst twice (2008 and 2010).

And here are their rankings in points allowed...

2001: Den - 21, NYG - 16, Chi - 1
2002: Den - 15, NYG - 3, Chi - 25
2003: Den - 9, NYG - 29, Chi - 22
2004: Den - 9, NYG - 17, Chi - 13
2005: Den - 3, NYG - 14, Chi - 1
2006: Den - 8, NYG - 24, Chi - 3
2007: Den - 28, NYG - 17, Chi - 16
2008: Den - 30, NYG - 5, Chi - 16
2009: Den - 12, NYG - 30, Chi - 21
2010: Den - 32, NYG - 17, Chi - 4

For points allowed, they've been the best three times, middle three times, and worst 4 times.

In summation, by yards allowed they've clearly been the best, and points they're a little bit below.

So your point about how the Giants and Bears have been such superior teams, and specifically defenses over the past decade (and somehow linking that to their drafting of Austin and Paea) seems to be outright incorrect.

TXBRONC
05-04-2011, 10:24 AM
Fortunately, Fox doesn't share your opinion. He has made it clear that he
wants and intends to win now. And I believe him . . .

-----

I'm not trying to put you on the spot do happen to remember when Fox said that. I honestly don't remember him saying that. I vaguely remember something to the effect that Fox thinks he can get things turned around in fairly quickly but not necessarily a playoff contender immediately.

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 10:49 AM
First of all, the Broncos made the playoffs 4 times in the past decade. And when you say "over a decade," well if you want to expand it to 5 years longer, the Broncos made it 4 times in the previous 5 years, making it a total of 8 out of 15. The Bears went 4 times in the last decade (and didn't make it any times in the 5 years before that, so 4 for 15), and the Giants 5 went times in the last decade (and 7 of the last 15).

So you can quit exaggerating about how those teams make the playoffs every year and your outright lie about the Broncos making it just once in over a decade.

As for defensive rankings:

Rankings in yards...

2001: Den - 8, NYG - 14, Chi - 15
2002: Den - 6, NYG - 9, Chi - 25
2003: Den - 4, NYG - 22, Chi - 14
2004: Den - 4, NYG - 13, Chi - 21
2005: Den - 15, NYG - 24, Chi - 2
2006: Den - 14, NYG - 25, Chi - 5
2007: Den - 19, NYG - 7, Chi - 28
2008: Den - 29, NYG - 5, Chi - 21
2009: Den - 7, NYG - 13, Chi - 17
2010: Den - 32, NYG - 7, Chi - 9

So over the past decade, in yards allowed the Broncos have been the best of those three teams 5 times, in the middle 3 times, and the worst twice (2008 and 2010).

And here are their rankings in points allowed...

2001: Den - 21, NYG - 16, Chi - 1
2002: Den - 15, NYG - 3, Chi - 25
2003: Den - 9, NYG - 29, Chi - 22
2004: Den - 9, NYG - 17, Chi - 13
2005: Den - 3, NYG - 14, Chi - 1
2006: Den - 8, NYG - 24, Chi - 3
2007: Den - 28, NYG - 17, Chi - 16
2008: Den - 30, NYG - 5, Chi - 16
2009: Den - 12, NYG - 30, Chi - 21
2010: Den - 32, NYG - 17, Chi - 4

For points allowed, they've been the best three times, middle three times, and worst 4 times.

In summation, by yards allowed they've clearly been the best, and points they're a little bit below.

So your point about how the Giants and Bears have been such superior teams, and specifically defenses over the past decade (and somehow linking that to their drafting of Austin and Paea) seems to be outright incorrect.

Actually the Broncos have only been to the playoffs once in the last decade.
2005. Other than that they have not "played" in a playoff game.
Oh, they were the "red headed step child", scrimmage team for the Colts and the Ravens long ago, but never a playoff team.
And right there is the problem for many fans. Desperately trying to re-hash some old, long forgotten ass-kicking at the hands of a team that actually has a legit right to be in the playoffs, and then attempting to use it as a reason along with fables and statistics to try to downplay the simple fact that DEN sucks, has for a LONG TIME, and refuses to address it most glaring need.
I dont care if teams that consistently play for a SB, sucked for a while years ago, use all the stats you want, all teams go through this process, only DEN (and some of its newer fans) seems to think its all irrelevant and "oh well" everythings just gonna be fine, and we'll just grab a top notch DT in FA, and make everything better. Only history aint on your side, and as of right now this team is the worst defense in the league.
I also notice that DEN has gotten substantially worse from your stats, (thanks for doin all the research!) in the last 5 years, compared to the other teams. But never mind that! And at least the Bears and Giants are playing for a SB and have a fighting chance, every year for quite a while now.

topscribe
05-04-2011, 10:54 AM
I'm not trying to put you on the spot do happen to remember when Fox said that. I honestly don't remember him saying that. I vaguely remember something to the effect that Fox thinks he can get things turned around in fairly quickly but not necessarily a playoff contender immediately.

I can't recall exactly when and where I heard Fox say it, but it was fairly
recently, that he doesn't expect to field a Super Bowl team right away, but
that he expects to contend for the playoffs this year and every year. At
least, that's the impression I got from what he said.

The only place I have heard the term "rebuilding" is on these boards and in
some of the media. I have never heard it from the FO. Have you?

All I know is, if Denver would have had a #15 running game and a #15
defense, they would have been in the thick of the Division race, with the
passing game they had.

I don't expect them to crank out the same passing numbers with the new
offense this year, but the capability will still be there. If a running threat is
added to that (DeAngelo?) and the defense is upgraded -- which it looks
as if it will be -- then I look for more wins than losses this year. Playoffs?
I don't know . . . but 9-7, 10-6 looks like a real possibility to me, assuming
they get their DT situation straightened out a little bit . . .

-----

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 11:10 AM
I can't recall exactly when and where I heard Fox say it, but it was fairly
recently, that he doesn't expect to field a Super Bowl team right away, but
that he expects to contend for the playoffs this year and every year. At
least, that's the impression I got from what he said.

The only place I have heard the term "rebuilding" is on these boards and in
some of the media. I have never heard it from the FO. Have you?

All I know is, if Denver would have had a #15 running game and a #15
defense, they would have been in the thick of the Division race, with the
passing game they had.

I don't expect them to crank out the same passing numbers with the new
offense this year, but the capability will still be there. If a running threat is
added to that (DeAngelo?) and the defense is upgraded -- which it looks
as if it will be -- then I look for more wins than losses this year. Playoffs?
I don't know . . . but 9-7, 10-6 looks like a real possibility to me, assuming
they get their DT situation straightened out a little bit . . .

-----

I like your optimism. Really i do. Only this happens every year.
Optimism should be tempered with a nice, heavy does of reality.
And the only thing DEN was in the thick of last year(s) was a nice, big, heaping pile of poop.
It just amazes me how every year the same cycle occurs.
Season.
Team blows, defense is lethargic at best, cant get off the field. Ever. Dont make playoffs.
Offseason.
Fans decry that defense needs to be addressed. Many theories are bantered about. We need DTs! etc, etc. Mocks are made. FA occurs. Draft. EVERYTHING IS JIM DANDY! YEAH!
Reg Season.
Team blows, defense is lethargic at best, cant get off the field. Ever. Dont make playoffs.
Offseason.
Fans decry that defense needs to be addressed. Many theories are bantered about. We need DTs! etc, etc. Mocks are made. FA occurs. Draft. EVERYTHING IS JIM DANDY! YEAH!

Rinse and repeat.

TXBRONC
05-04-2011, 11:12 AM
After listening to EFX address the DL issue after the draft, I got the distinct impression they might already have something setup with another team. Just waiting for FA to begin.

Probably wrong for "reading between the lines", but it seemed odd that they didn't select a DT in a draft supposedly deep at that position.

That thought has crossed my mind as well.

Ravage!!!
05-04-2011, 11:18 AM
The whining around here after every draft never fails.

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 11:22 AM
The whining around here after every draft never fails.

Actually what never seems to fail, is Denver losing. ;)

TXBRONC
05-04-2011, 11:42 AM
I can't recall exactly when and where I heard Fox say it, but it was fairly
recently, that he doesn't expect to field a Super Bowl team right away, but
that he expects to contend for the playoffs this year and every year. At
least, that's the impression I got from what he said.

The only place I have heard the term "rebuilding" is on these boards and in
some of the media. I have never heard it from the FO. Have you?

All I know is, if Denver would have had a #15 running game and a #15
defense, they would have been in the thick of the Division race, with the
passing game they had.

I don't expect them to crank out the same passing numbers with the new
offense this year, but the capability will still be there. If a running threat is
added to that (DeAngelo?) and the defense is upgraded -- which it looks
as if it will be -- then I look for more wins than losses this year. Playoffs?
I don't know . . . but 9-7, 10-6 looks like a real possibility to me, assuming
they get their DT situation straightened out a little bit . . .

-----

Even if Fox doesn't think win right away I'm still ok with him saying it. It would bad p.r. to say that we're going suck. If the coach says we're going suck so what sense of watching them play. Several years back Shanahan said head coaches say things like that so that their teams don't get into the mind set that losing is acceptable.

I hope they can win more games than they lose but I haven't even begun to set expectations other than I hope that they more competitive. Even assuming that the get the defensive tackle situation straightened out a little bit two new schemes and potentially four four rookies starting is usually recipe for struggling at the very least early on.

Ravage!!!
05-04-2011, 11:46 AM
Actually what never seems to fail, is Denver losing. ;)

come on Socal. This is an over dramatic and incorrect statement. How many losing seasons have we had in the last 15 years? The only thing that never seems to fail around here is the 'doom and gloom' and the exaggeration of how bad things have been.

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 11:59 AM
come on Socal. This is an over dramatic and incorrect statement. How many losing seasons have we had in the last 15 years? The only thing that never seems to fail around here is the 'doom and gloom' and the exaggeration of how bad things have been.

8-8 is losing. This team needs to get back to being able to compete and possibly beat the better teams in the NFL.
DEN needs to get back to being FEARED by its opponents again.
Dont sugar coat the crap of the last few years. DEN sucked.
And under shanny it was rebuilding, but thats over now.
I am optimistic, but i also know the reality of where this team is.
Dont be suprised to see DEN picking top 5 again next year.

kennu
05-04-2011, 12:11 PM
SOCAL,
You use all your logic one way, but not the other. So the Broncos 4 playoff appearances in the last decade, but you only count one. But somehow the Bears and Giants are legit contenders every year, but you conveniently allow yourself to disregard that they've been in the playoffs about the same, and have early-round fodder the same amount of time (which you should likewise discount) as well. "Fables and statistics," what fables did I use? You talk about how those teams drafted a DT that you wanted, go back 10 years and make believe that they have some intense focus on the DT position and that's why they're good, when really, they're not even better than the Broncos over past decade (your metric, so stop complaining about people going back in the past).

But forget all that, my main point that I want you to address is: Why do you keep talking about the history of the front office when Elway and John Fox have been running the show for 15 minutes?

I understand your frustration, and I admire your loyalty to the team, honestly I do. But maybe you need some newer fans to give you some perspective on stuff. It's a new group of people running the show, and it's going to take multiple years to overhaul the mess that they inherited. Like you said in an earlier post, they aren't going to contend this year, but you used that as justification for why they don't need to sign a FA DT. Why not the same logic for why they don't have to draft a DT this year? There are so many holes on defense that they just needed to get the best players they could, at whatever position.

Ravage!!!
05-04-2011, 12:27 PM
8-8 is losing. This team needs to get back to being able to compete and possibly beat the better teams in the NFL.
DEN needs to get back to being FEARED by its opponents again.
Dont sugar coat the crap of the last few years. DEN sucked.
And under shanny it was rebuilding, but thats over now.
I am optimistic, but i also know the reality of where this team is.
Dont be suprised to see DEN picking top 5 again next year.

For one 8-8 isn't losing.

Two, I'm not sayign I don't want to be back to what you describe. Of course I do! But that doesn't mean we've been a "losing franchise" for soooo long. It doesn't mean that your comments aren't completely exaggerated.

As far as picking top 5 again... I doubt it. But I don't think we'll be good at all. I think we have a LOT of ground to make-up after our last coach completely destroyed this team.

kennu
05-04-2011, 12:57 PM
Ravage, I would go back and High 5 every post you made on this topic but that's a lot of effort. I agree with you 100%.

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 01:57 PM
SOCAL,
You use all your logic one way, but not the other. So the Broncos 4 playoff appearances in the last decade, but you only count one. But somehow the Bears and Giants are legit contenders every year, but you conveniently allow yourself to disregard that they've been in the playoffs about the same, and have early-round fodder the same amount of time (which you should likewise discount) as well. "Fables and statistics," what fables did I use? You talk about how those teams drafted a DT that you wanted, go back 10 years and make believe that they have some intense focus on the DT position and that's why they're good, when really, they're not even better than the Broncos over past decade (your metric, so stop complaining about people going back in the past).

But forget all that, my main point that I want you to address is: Why do you keep talking about the history of the front office when Elway and John Fox have been running the show for 15 minutes?

I understand your frustration, and I admire your loyalty to the team, honestly I do. But maybe you need some newer fans to give you some perspective on stuff. It's a new group of people running the show, and it's going to take multiple years to overhaul the mess that they inherited. Like you said in an earlier post, they aren't going to contend this year, but you used that as justification for why they don't need to sign a FA DT. Why not the same logic for why they don't have to draft a DT this year? There are so many holes on defense that they just needed to get the best players they could, at whatever position.

Nothing in your post changes the simple fact that DEN refuses to address their biggest, most glaring need. If its Fox, or Joshy or Shanny, they didnt address the D-line and because of it, the team has paid a steep price in losses. More than any other position on this team, the DT position needed to be addressed in what every analyst or expert said was the deepest 4-3 DT/DE drafts in forever, and DEN simply didnt do it.
Ive stated countless times that i like the picks they made. Those picks were basically just a re-draft of Joshys complete cluster**** draft. Good for them. But their is STILL a glaring hole on this team which accounted for the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL. Before the draft, everyone said DENs biggest position of need was at DT. Yes, there are alot of positions of need, but again, deepest 4-3 DT draft in recent memory.
I am not going to candy coat the simple fact that unless DEN decides to actually address this d-line issue, they will simply be 4-12 again next season.
And you can blow smoke up everyones butt all day, but come week 9 of the reg season when DEN is getting its butt handed to them, cause they cant stop the run to save their lives, you will be a Redskins fan again.

So, if Fox and Co go get Cofield or Mebane, Hey! I am all smiles!
But if they re-sign Bannan and Williams..........

kennu
05-04-2011, 02:04 PM
LOL, I give up man. All I'm saying is it's not the biggest deal if they don't fix it right away, but you have a sky-is-always-falling attitude. Have fun hand-wringing yourself to death.

There's a 0% chance I'll be a Redskins fan again. I didn't choose another team because they aren't winning, or else I would've picked a winning team to root for now. I stopped because I couldn't root for Dan Snyder any longer. It doesn't matter how the team performs as long as it's not an insult to the fans. If the Redskins go 19-0 and the Broncos go 0-16 I'll still be a Broncos fan, from here on out.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
05-04-2011, 04:03 PM
It's good to see another thread with people who are again disagreeing with Socalorado (or as I like to call him, Mr. Pessimistic) and his exaggerated comments.

For all other optimistic fans out there, GO BRONCOS!!! There has been absolutely no cheerfulness in these forums. Instead of having such a negative attitude towards next season, let's have a positive one until we see what happens.

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 04:13 PM
It's good to see another thread with people who are again disagreeing with Socalorado (or as I like to call him, Mr. Pessimistic) and his exaggerated comments.

For all other optimistic fans out there, GO BRONCOS!!! There has been absolutely no cheerfulness in these forums. Instead of having such a negative attitude towards next season, let's have a positive one until we see what happens.

I dont have a bad attitude. I get on your nerves. You already admitted it.
Thats all. Deal with it. If you dont like it, too bad. Rise above it and be the cheerful, bandwagon newbie who's happy! Whats wrong with that?
You just are having a hard time debating me, and now your mad.
Its OK. This isnt Broncomania. You'll get used to it.:welcome:

kennu
05-04-2011, 04:16 PM
I'm having a hard time debating you the same way I would have a hard time debating my toenail clipper.

Ravage!!!
05-04-2011, 04:18 PM
well, I'm not going to come out and label (or try to) proclaim myself as a 'rah-rah' fan. I get Socal's perspective, just not on this subject. Right now, he had his hopes up that Denver would spend the highest pick we've EVER had, on a DT. I get that. I get that he was hoping for SOME choice to be used on DT. I did too. But at the same time, I don't think the draft was a failure.... yet. I don't think that drafting Dareus (or any other DT) would have been the 'savior' of this team.

I think this team is void of talent. I think that we now have BOTH sides of the ball to work on, and have to take the time, draft choices, and resources to fix the MANY holes that were created and left here by McD.

I think back to what we COULD Have drafted last year.. in one of the deepest drafts ever... if we didn't have the need to replace the talent that we shipped off!! To think what we could have had if we weren't stupid enough to take a RB in the first round...or have the NEED to use 1st round picks on WRs and QBs!! Think where this team could have... no.... SHOULD be right now!!! Its maddening.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
05-04-2011, 04:24 PM
I dont have a bad attitude. I get on your nerves. You already admitted it.
Thats all. Deal with it. If you dont like it, too bad. Rise above it and be the cheerful, bandwagon newbie who's happy! Whats wrong with that?
You just are having a hard time debating me, and now your mad.
Its OK. This isnt Broncomania. You'll get used to it.:welcome:

Hardly having a hard time debating you, still waiting for a return to my last point in the other thread that has anything significant in it and so far you've failed me with your last 4 posts.

A bandwagon newbie? Since I've just joined these forums, that means I am a new bronco fan? That mean anyone who isn't a member of these forums isn't a fan?

I am actually trying to get a rise out of you so that we can keep this train going. This isn't Broncomania huh? So I'm not allowed to be optimistic about my favorite team? I should just listen to every bad thing you've had to say about our FO, formulate my opinion based on yours, and look to this next season with pure negativity? That's what these forums are about?

Yes you do get on my nerves. You belong in a USC Trojan forum, not here. You have a horrible attitude to this upcoming season and nothing you've said in the past week proves otherwise.

:coffee::cool:

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 04:50 PM
Hardly having a hard time debating you, still waiting for a return to my last point in the other thread that has anything significant in it and so far you've failed me with your last 4 posts.

A bandwagon newbie? Since I've just joined these forums, that means I am a new bronco fan? That mean anyone who isn't a member of these forums isn't a fan?

I am actually trying to get a rise out of you so that we can keep this train going. This isn't Broncomania huh? So I'm not allowed to be optimistic about my favorite team? I should just listen to every bad thing you've had to say about our FO, formulate my opinion based on yours, and look to this next season with pure negativity? That's what these forums are about?

Yes you do get on my nerves. You belong in a USC Trojan forum, not here. You have a horrible attitude to this upcoming season and nothing you've said in the past week proves otherwise.

:coffee::cool:

Your trying to get a rise outta me? Really?
Thats your idea of a debate. So you dont like another poster(s) opinion, it makes you mad and it gets on your nerves so you attack them.
Well, uh good luck with that. I am not going from thread to thread with any kind of real intensity here (LOL!) so i guess you can impatiently wait for me, since i get on your nerves.
Do you take medication for this disorder? I mean if a poster on a random board gets on your nerves this bad, you may just want to seek some professional help. I would hate to see you in traffic face to face with someone. I hope you dont abuse your life partner this way.
Maybe you should take a break from posting today. You know, come back tommorow with a new, invigorated attitude.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
05-04-2011, 05:01 PM
Your trying to get a rise outta me? Really?
Thats your idea of a debate. So you dont like another poster(s) opinion, it makes you mad and it gets on your nerves so you attack them.
Well, uh good luck with that. I am not going from thread to thread with any kind of real intensity here (LOL!) so i guess you can impatiently wait for me, since i get on your nerves.
Do you take medication for this disorder? I mean if a poster on a random board gets on your nerves this bad, you may just want to seek some professional help. I would hate to see you in traffic face to face with someone. I hope you dont abuse your life partner this way.
Maybe you should take a break from posting today. You know, come back tommorow with a new, invigorated attitude.

Hahahahahahahaha

or is LOL the more acceptable term in these forums? Sorry, I'm still just a newbie. Haven't figured it all out from the lightweight champion poster, SOCALORADO!

You love putting words in my mouth again. Yes I said that was my idea of a debate. I made a point in a previous thread that you haven't replied to. It appears as though you don't want to continue it. In any debate, you look to get a rise out of your opposition. It makes heated and more intense.

I'm sorry if you feel threatened enough by my words to view it as an attack on you. Since I'm still waiting to hear something from you with any substance and our little feud is taking up space on this forum, I'll just make use of my ignore button and call it a day.

G_Money
05-04-2011, 05:03 PM
Can somebody talk about football?

Dick measuring contests are boring, especially when 3/4ths of the ruler aren't useful. :coffee:

~G

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 05:04 PM
Hahahahahahahaha

or is LOL the more acceptable term in these forums? Sorry, I'm still just a newbie. Haven't figured it all out from the lightweight champion poster, SOCALORADO!

You love putting words in my mouth again. Yes I said that was my idea of a debate. I made a point in a previous thread that you haven't replied to. It appears as though you don't want to continue it. In any debate, you look to get a rise out of your opposition. It makes heated and more intense.

I'm sorry if you feel threatened enough by my words to view it as an attack on you. Since I'm still waiting to hear something from you with any substance and our little feud is taking up space on this forum, I'll just make use of my inferiority complex button and call it a day.

fixed. ;)

SOCALORADO.
05-04-2011, 05:05 PM
Can somebody talk about football?

Dick measuring contests are boring, especially when 3/4ths of the ruler aren't useful. :coffee:

~G

He got mad at my opinion and told me it gets on his nerves, so here we are. LOL!:lol:

Dzone
05-04-2011, 05:53 PM
Your trying to get a rise outta me? Really?
Thats your idea of a debate. So you dont like another poster(s) opinion, it makes you mad and it gets on your nerves so you attack them.
Well, uh good luck with that. I am not going from thread to thread with any kind of real intensity here (LOL!) so i guess you can impatiently wait for me, since i get on your nerves.
Do you take medication for this disorder? I mean if a poster on a random board gets on your nerves this bad, you may just want to seek some professional help. I would hate to see you in traffic face to face with someone. I hope you dont abuse your life partner this way.
Maybe you should take a break from posting today. You know, come back tommorow with a new, invigorated attitude.

LMAO!!!Now thats some funny shyt right there:lol:

topscribe
05-04-2011, 07:26 PM
It's good to see another thread with people who are again disagreeing with Socalorado (or as I like to call him, Mr. Pessimistic) and his exaggerated comments.

For all other optimistic fans out there, GO BRONCOS!!! There has been absolutely no cheerfulness in these forums. Instead of having such a negative attitude towards next season, let's have a positive one until we see what happens.

We are allowed to comment here, positive or negative. Until you become
acquainted to this board and how we post, I suggest you just be a bit more
courteous and respectful to established posters and see how it's done. Don't
charge into this forum and try to dictate how posting should be done here.

Fit it or file out . . .

-----

SmilinAssasSin27
05-04-2011, 08:24 PM
8-8 is losing. This team needs to get back to being able to compete and possibly beat the better teams in the NFL.
DEN needs to get back to being FEARED by its opponents again.
Dont sugar coat the crap of the last few years. DEN sucked.
And under shanny it was rebuilding, but thats over now.
I am optimistic, but i also know the reality of where this team is.
Dont be suprised to see DEN picking top 5 again next year.

I get the DT love and you can have that.

That said, you can't really believe that Shanny was "rebuilding" this team. His GM powers are what destroyed the D in the first place. Now he did hit w/ Cutty and BM...kinda. Both are headcases who have had their fair share of meltdowns. But even if they would have matured in Denver, do you really believe Shanny would fixed the D? Browncos? Jarvis Moss? Hell...look what he's doing to Washington's D which was great 2 years ago. Kerrigan at 16 and Jenkins early rd 2? REALLY?

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
05-04-2011, 09:54 PM
We are allowed to comment here, positive or negative. Until you become
acquainted to this board and how we post, I suggest you just be a bit more
courteous and respectful to established posters and see how it's done. Don't
charge into this forum and try to dictate how posting should be done here.

Fit it or file out . . .

-----

I am entitled to my spot of posting my opinion just as much as anyone. Just because you stumbled upon this site before me and have worked your way up to 21000+ posts doesn't mean I have to conform to your style. I don't mean any disrespect in anything that I said, you can take it however you like.

topscribe
05-05-2011, 09:32 AM
I am entitled to my spot of posting my opinion just as much as anyone. Just because you stumbled upon this site before me and have worked your way up to 21000+ posts doesn't mean I have to conform to your style. I don't mean any disrespect in anything that I said, you can take it however you like.

I didn't "stumble on" to this site, son. I am one of its Founders. That aside,
there is nothing wrong with your posting your opinions. Just do not make the
other poster the topic here.

You have been involved in a pissing contest with another poster over how he
posts. The only style we are concerned with here is stick to the issue and do
not attack other posters.

-----

TXBRONC
05-05-2011, 10:43 AM
I didn't "stumble on" to this site, son. I am one of its Founders. That aside,
there is nothing wrong with your posting your opinions. Just do not make the
other poster the topic here.

You have been involved in a pissing contest with another poster over how he
posts. The only style we are concerned with here is stick to the issue and do
not attack other posters.

-----

So get back on topic Top or I'll take your Viagra from ya. :bolt:

topscribe
05-05-2011, 11:37 AM
So get back on topic Top or I'll take your Viagra from ya. :bolt:

Yassir. :focus:

-----

Agent of Orange
05-05-2011, 08:31 PM
We are allowed to comment here, positive or negative. Until you become
acquainted to this board and how we post, I suggest you just be a bit more
courteous and respectful to established posters and see how it's done. Don't
charge into this forum and try to dictate how posting should be done here.

Fit it or file out . . .

-----

No one cares.

LTC Pain
05-06-2011, 12:22 PM
No one cares.

If you don't, fine. But you shouldn't pretend to speak for others.

Agent of Orange
05-06-2011, 06:28 PM
If you don't, fine. But you shouldn't pretend to speak for others.

Its true. No one is bowing down to him on the basis of having posted a lot, nor should they.

Ziggy
05-07-2011, 04:30 AM
Allen Branch would be a nice addition. He's 26, 6'6 338 pounds, and very solid against the run. He's not going to do much as a pass rusher, but he can fill it up at the LOS and help get opponents into 2nd and 3rd and long.

Lonestar
05-07-2011, 08:54 AM
8-8 is losing. This team needs to get back to being able to compete and possibly beat the better teams in the NFL.
DEN needs to get back to being FEARED by its opponents again.
Dont sugar coat the crap of the last few years. DEN sucked.
And under shanny it was rebuilding, but thats over now.
I am optimistic, but i also know the reality of where this team is.
Dont be suprised to see DEN picking top 5 again next year.

Many members said at one point that the goal each year was playoffs and winning the ring.
After we got there then thy accepted less each year and believed the EOY presser when it was stated we are just a player or two of getting the ring.
They were happy to have a "winning" season even though each year we were one and done after an ass kicking each year.
Teams hated to come to "mile high" now it is almost a bye week for them coming away with an easy win. Yet every eoy presser they bought the mothers milk we are just a player away.
Never wanted to admit that we should have been "rebuilding" they called it reloading ahahahahahahaha.

I'm not all that sure that foxes way of running the ball is going to get us anywhere but medicore. This is a passing league.
Time will tell.