Kiper gives Broncos a "B" draft grade

[tomjonesrocks]

Denver Broncos
Top needs: DL, CB, LB, S

Summary: Denver got the player who could very well have the biggest impact of any rookie when it grabbed Miller with the No. 2 overall pick. I can see John Fox using him as a SAM linebacker, situationally creating matchup problems and allowing him to use his athleticism as a pass-rusher. Denver did need a safety, and Moore provides a lot of value all the way down at No. 45 overall. It was a weak safety class, but that's still quite low to get the first one off the board. Nate Irving could be a steal at No. 67, a player who recovered from a near-fatal accident and had some monster games. But I question where the defensive line help is coming from, and if the Broncos could pass on getting a corner. I had the D-line as a big need, and it wasn't addressed. Still, they added impact, and that counts.

Needs: C+ Value B+

And of course the Chargers outdrafted the Broncos according to Kiper.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/insider/news/story?page=Kiper2011DraftGrades

[Lonestar]

As much as he is a pompous ass, looks about on the mark. Everyone and I mean everyone knows how bad our Dl is.
Putting a bandaid on a heart attack is not going to make it better.
Got to fix the underlying issue. Bwe did not remotely do so.

[Agent of Orange]

Its totally fair and even a little high. Ive seen a lot of B-s and C+s, which are also fair. They probably have more starters than they were shooting for but they also didnt address DT.

[I Eat Staples]

I think that's fair and Kiper states that in his scale a B grade means a solid draft.

[tomjonesrocks]

I also agree for the most part. In a draft deep at DT, for a team with the biggest need in the league at that position not to draft one is inexcusable IMO regardless of the given rationale. I don't hate the players that were drafted but the position this team needs to get over .500 still hasn't been addressed.

The OT in the draft should have been a DT, IMO, period.

[Benetto]

Kiper is an friggin idiot...Wasn't he the one who said Jamoron russell was the next coming...

I always either change the channel to 212 or mute it when I see his fake hair and deformed face on TV...Just can't stand some of those jaggoffs. John Clayton too...Even though Clayton actually knows what he is talking about...I just can't look at him for more than a minute without the need to bludgeon myself with the remote.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Kiper is an friggin idiot...Wasn't he the one who said Jamoron russell was the next coming...

I always either change the channel to 212 or mute it when I see his fake hair and deformed face on TV...Just can't stand some of those jaggoffs. John Clayton too...Even though Clayton actually knows what he is talking about...I just can't look at him for more than a minute without the need to bludgeon myself with the remote.

excellent contribution :hi:

[Benetto]

excellent contribution :hi:


You're :welcome:

[WARHORSE]

Only way I dont like the Franklin pick is if he doesnt end up being a great starter.


I wanted Austin initially all the way up to the draft, but then I saw some huge red flags on his character, in that he took absolutely no responsibility for his suspension, and threw everybody else under the bus. On gameday, he has no vision.

And the knock on Paea is that his short arms are going to kill him at this level.

We'll see, but I understand the Broncos not wanting to take the risk at that pick.

Lastly, the draft was deepest at DE moreso than DT.

Xanders said all the DTs with starting potential were gone in the first round. He ranked four of them.

So Im glad we took someone who can start vs satisfying the fans need to see the "DT" slot filled with a name.

We have an entire free agency to go through to fill the DT position, but I dont want to overpay for one either.

Plug and play, I like that they were patient enough to not reach.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Only way I dont like the Franklin pick is if he doesnt end up being a great starter.


I wanted Austin initially all the way up to the draft, but then I saw some huge red flags on his character, in that he took absolutely no responsibility for his suspension, and threw everybody else under the bus. On gameday, he has no vision.

And the knock on Paea is that his short arms are going to kill him at this level.

We'll see, but I understand the Broncos not wanting to take the risk at that pick.

Lastly, the draft was deepest at DE moreso than DT.

Xanders said all the DTs with starting potential were gone in the first round. He ranked four of them.

So Im glad we took someone who can start vs satisfying the fans need to see the "DT" slot filled with a name.

We have an entire free agency to go through to fill the DT position, but I dont want to overpay for one either.

Plug and play, I like that they were patient enough to not reach.

It will hurt more if Austin and or Paea go on to be good with the Giants/Bears and Franklin doesn't pan out or just plays Guard for us. Guards are a dime a dozen and can easily be found later than the 2nd round - hence why I was surprised that Beadles wasn't the heir apparent for Harris and we were using him at Guard .

Sure, if you find a blue chipper at Guard like Pouncey, make the pick, but it's not like Franklin was exactly blowing people's minds, either. I like the Franklin pick if he plays (and starts) at RT. Not so much for a Guard. A lot of decent Guards came off the board much later, NTM there are a good amount in FA this year that won't cost nearly what a FA DT does. Just throwing that out there.

[Northman]

I still think Austin will bust bigtime.

[tomjonesrocks]

It will hurt more if Austin and or Paea go on to be good with the Giants/Bears and Franklin doesn't pan out or just plays Guard for us. Guards are a dime a dozen and can easily be found later than the 2nd round - hence why I was surprised that Beadles wasn't the heir apparent for Harris and we were using him at Guard .

Sure, if you find a blue chipper at Guard like Pouncey, make the pick, but it's not like Franklin was exactly blowing people's minds, either. I like the Franklin pick if he plays (and starts) at RT. Not so much for a Guard. A lot of decent Guards came off the board much later, NTM there are a good amount in FA this year that won't cost nearly what a FA DT does. Just throwing that out there.

My thoughts exactly. The draft is a man's game--but they better have been right that none of those second-round-on DTs they had the ability to draft aren't players.

[Cugel]

I would give this draft a "D" personally. I think Kiper's being too optimistic.

Here's what John Fox had to say:


"We had a lot of holes, and you can't fill them all in just this draft," Fox said. "Never in any year that I've been in the National Football League have you accomplished filling all your needs in just one of those pools. I think we'll have to address that moving forward in that next pool."

Sounds reasonable, right? This will convince any fan who doesn't really THINK about what it means. :coffee:

The statement confirms exactly what I thought. The Broncos first made a decision to get Miller with the #2 pick and thus missed out on all the "elite DTs."

They apparently didn't like Austin & Paea much and other DTs they did like (we don't know who these were yet) were taken before they could pick.

Thus, they failed to get one.

Here's the problem with that philosophy:

This is EXACTLY the reason the Broncos haven't drafted an elite DT since 1999! It's the same damn thing every single year! They're NEVER in the "proper position" to get one. It's always "too early" or "too late" to grab a DT in the first or second round and "the guy we wanted" was never there. "We didn't want to reach" for DT help.

And thus, year after year after year, the Broncos are stuck trying desperately to find FA DTs who wind up sucking, while their defense flounders.


Other teams face that same problem and yet manage to come up with good DTs. How? They DO "reach." :coffee:

Austin and Paea have questions about them. Austin missed the 2010 season due to suspension and Paea was injured. How good they will ultimately be is an open question.

But, two teams with the credentials of having successfully built GOOD defenses for years, the Giants and Bears took chances on those guys.

That's how it's done. Because there are so Few really good DTs in any draft you HAVE TO TAKE A CHANCE!

That doesn't mean you reach wildly for the 15th DT in a poor class for DTs.

But, it does mean you take advantage of your opportunities to grab a DT in one of the best DT classes in years!

Why? When they have other pressing needs?

Because you can always find a S or a LB in any draft. They are always going to be there. DT? NOT always.

In fact, the Broncos haven't been in position to draft an elite DT without trading up for 10 years. Who thinks they will be in position to do it NEXT year?

What happens NEXT year when they have the #14 pick and there are maybe TWO "elite DTs" and both are off the board in the top 10?

Pass again on DT? Hope that somebody they like falls to the mid 2nd round? And what if he doesn't?

Trade up to grab an elite DT in the top 10 and give up much of their draft to do it if that's even possible?

They had this ONE chance when for the first time in 25 years they had a top 5 pick.

I don't care how good Von Miller ends up being. This was a total FLOP of a draft because they blew that "once in a lifetime" chance to get an elite DT! :mad:

(Of course it won't be a "once in a lifetime" chance if they keep picking in the top 10, but presumably they aren't counting on becoming the old Detroit Lions?)

[Grover]

I don't care how good Von Miller ends up being.


Well, that's just a really poor thing to say coming from a Broncos fan. I know you're upset about the direction this draft turned out, but to say you don't care how our #1 pick plays because it wasn't the position you wanted?!?

Clearly we need to find another DT in free agency. I'm totally excited about this draft because I think Fox and Dennis Allen have gotten together with Elway and Xanders and decided to have a fast, dynamic defense full of playmakers.

[CoachChaz]

Some people will never be happy...no matter what. We could have drafted Dareus AND Fairley and there would be people complaining. Its life

[topscribe]

My thoughts exactly. The draft is a man's game--but they better have been right that none of those second-round-on DTs they had the ability to draft aren't players.

A whole lot of all those on the board the Broncos didn't draft are players. They
couldn't draft them all.

I would rather go the other way with my thoughts: I hope the ones the Broncos
did draft are players. I could give a rat's behind about the others . . .

-----

[topscribe]

Kiper is an friggin idiot...Wasn't he the one who said Jamoron russell was the next coming...

I always either change the channel to 212 or mute it when I see his fake hair and deformed face on TV...Just can't stand some of those jaggoffs. John Clayton too...Even though Clayton actually knows what he is talking about...I just can't look at him for more than a minute without the need to bludgeon myself with the remote.

I've lost more remotes that way . . .

-----

[LTC Pain]

B sounds about right.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I would give this draft a "D" personally. I think Kiper's being too optimistic.

Here's what John Fox had to say:


Sounds reasonable, right? This will convince any fan who doesn't really THINK about what it means. :coffee:

The statement confirms exactly what I thought. The Broncos first made a decision to get Miller with the #2 pick and thus missed out on all the "elite DTs."

They apparently didn't like Austin & Paea much and other DTs they did like (we don't know who these were yet) were taken before they could pick.

Thus, they failed to get one.

Here's the problem with that philosophy:

This is EXACTLY the reason the Broncos haven't drafted an elite DT since 1999! It's the same damn thing every single year! They're NEVER in the "proper position" to get one. It's always "too early" or "too late" to grab a DT in the first or second round and "the guy we wanted" was never there. "We didn't want to reach" for DT help.

And thus, year after year after year, the Broncos are stuck trying desperately to find FA DTs who wind up sucking, while their defense flounders.


Other teams face that same problem and yet manage to come up with good DTs. How? They DO "reach." :coffee:

Austin and Paea have questions about them. Austin missed the 2010 season due to suspension and Paea was injured. How good they will ultimately be is an open question.

But, two teams with the credentials of having successfully built GOOD defenses for years, the Giants and Bears took chances on those guys.

That's how it's done. Because there are so Few really good DTs in any draft you HAVE TO TAKE A CHANCE!

That doesn't mean you reach wildly for the 15th DT in a poor class for DTs.

But, it does mean you take advantage of your opportunities to grab a DT in one of the best DT classes in years!

Why? When they have other pressing needs?

Because you can always find a S or a LB in any draft. They are always going to be there. DT? NOT always.

In fact, the Broncos haven't been in position to draft an elite DT without trading up for 10 years. Who thinks they will be in position to do it NEXT year?

What happens NEXT year when they have the #14 pick and there are maybe TWO "elite DTs" and both are off the board in the top 10?

Pass again on DT? Hope that somebody they like falls to the mid 2nd round? And what if he doesn't?

Trade up to grab an elite DT in the top 10 and give up much of their draft to do it if that's even possible?

They had this ONE chance when for the first time in 25 years they had a top 5 pick.

I don't care how good Von Miller ends up being. This was a total FLOP of a draft because they blew that "once in a lifetime" chance to get an elite DT! :mad:

(Of course it won't be a "once in a lifetime" chance if they keep picking in the top 10, but presumably they aren't counting on becoming the old Detroit Lions?)

You sound just like me yesterday. :D I've kinda calmed down a little and realized who our HC is and how much I not only supported but beat the drum for his hiring. Now I have to trust that he'll do what's right to fix the defense.

The hardest part is not knowing what we have in FA to look forward to. If we land two badass FA DTs (who aren't somebody's leftover trash) then all is forgiven. If we go dumpster diving for some Browncos, hmmm... :secruity:

I just hope Elway and Fox mean what they say when they say we'll address it in FA. If we can't stop the run, we're in a for a long and terrible season.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Some people will never be happy...no matter what. We could have drafted Dareus AND Fairley and there would be people complaining. Its life

Only the Peterson crowd. ;)

[topscribe]

You sound just like me yesterday. :D I've kinda calmed down a little and realized who our HC is and how much I not only supported but beat the drum for his hiring. Now I have to trust that he'll do what's right to fix the defense.

The hardest part is not knowing what we have in FA to look forward to. If we land two badass FA DTs (who aren't somebody's leftover trash) then all is forgiven. If we go dumpster diving for some Browncos, hmmm... :secruity:

I just hope Elway and Fox mean what they say when they say we'll address it in FA. If we can't stop the run, we're in a for a long and terrible season.

If Gerard Warren were still in the same condition he was when he arrived in
Denver (i.e., not old), I would welcome him with open arms with the supporting
cast it looks like he would now have . . .

-----

[Ravage!!!]

I"m glad we didnt' pass on Miller purely for the purpose of drafting a DT. When you pick at #2, you pick the best player. I believe we did that

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Its totally fair and even a little high. Ive seen a lot of B-s and C+s, which are also fair. They probably have more starters than they were shooting for but they also didnt address DT.


When the new regime talked about the team's many needs, it reflected in part last season's 4-12 record. But it also reflected the requirements of the new schemes. That's why it didn't seem that concerned about its failure to address the obvious need at defensive tackle. To the new architects, the needs of the new design are just as obvious.

Robert Ayers and Elvis Dumervil are no longer linebackers. In the new scheme, they are once again defensive ends. Von Miller, the second overall pick, should step in at strongside linebacker from Day One. With any luck, Nate Irving wins the middle linebacker job, although the length of the lockout and the length of training camp, if any, are likely to have something to say about that.

http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_17967665

[CoachChaz]

We had a choice between a safe pick and an impact pick. If we were a DT aeay from the playoffs, the safe pick made sense. People fail to realize our best defensive players are in their mid 30s or coming off an injury. We need help everywhere

[TXBRONC]

Some people will never be happy...no matter what. We could have drafted Dareus AND Fairley and there would be people complaining. Its life

That's true but there would have probably been a lot less of them.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Denver

B

My take: I would have given Denver a slightly higher grade. Denver didn’t address every need, but this was a team with gaping holes all over the roster. It drafted five likely instant starters and it stayed true to its board. Denver came away with impressive talent on all three days of the draft.



San Diego

B+

My take: I thought San Diego got good value, but frankly, I liked Kansas City's and Denver’s drafts better. I thought those two teams got great value and each team grabbed several impact players. No knock on the Chargers’ draft, but I don’t think it was the best in the division.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/27100/examining-kipers-draft-grades

[Superchop 7]

John Fox usually plays it conservative on defense....doesn't try to trick you....just lines up and plays.

And.....it all starts up front with a D like that.

[Grover]

John Fox usually plays it conservative on defense....doesn't try to trick you....just lines up and plays.

And.....it all starts up front with a D like that.



But with respect, it's not Fox's defense -- it's Dennis Allan's defense.

What this defense is the start of is getting back to Denver Broncos football teams that had strong linebackers and even stronger safeties. This team is being built to be a dynamic defense that will be unpredictable as far as where the pressure is coming from. Dennis Allan will bring creativity and diversity.

[FanInAZ]

Wasn't he the one who said Jamoron russell was the next coming...

:confused: Is OaklandRaider Kiper's BF screen name :confused: