Get MIKE NOLAN

[Superchop 7]

Although I don't blame Slowik for this one, ( players were awful ) without a doubt we would be "much" better under Nolan.

We will not win a superbowl with Slowik, we can with Nolan.

[CrazyHorse]

He's a 3-4 guy. Just like Mikey wants.

[Ziggy]

So instead of having a new DC every year, we should start having 2 a year?

[Traveler]

Although I don't blame Slowik for this one, ( players were awful ) without a doubt we would be "much" better under Nolan.

We will not win a superbowl with Slowik, we can with Nolan.

We can't do anything until we get some players on defense.

[Magnificent Seven]

I hope so. Defense looked weak. Nolan is perfect for Broncos.

[G_Money]

Mike Nolan has roots here and is better than any DC we've had in the last 20 years.

If Shanny wanted to bring him in right now, it's probably the best possible choice. I would certainly call and find out.

Like, before giving the post-game speech even.

~G

[Magnificent Seven]

I hope they will do something in during bye week. Fire Slowik and hire Mike Nolan.

[red98]

I hope so. Defense looked weak. Nolan is perfect for Broncos.

Nolan has coached the LBs before. Didn't do so good...

[G_Money]

I don't care about bothering Slowik. I care about getting the right guy.

We didn't care about bothering Plummer when we drafted Jay. I still believe it was the right choice if we ever want to win a SB.

Why care about bothering Slowik by adding Nolan, or bothering the D by making them learn another scheme?

They haven't learned one yet, so get a better teacher and THEN see which students are just too dumb to learn.

~G

[Magnificent Seven]

Nolan has coached the LBs before. Didn't do so good...

I disagreed with you. He was defensive coordinator of the Baltimore Ravens and look at Ravens' defense team. Strong one. Who built that defense team? MIKE NOLAN! I think he is perfect for Broncos.

[Medford Bronco]

We can't do anything until we get some players on defense.

Like 8 new ones

the only ones worth a damn are Bailey, Webster and DJ

[underrated29]

No coach, nor any amount of coaching can fix our seivefense.

We could take the ravens coach, eagles, titans it wont matter. The only help a new coach would bring is DL coach and maybe some scheme tweaks, but we simply dont have the talent.

Its like me vs topscribe in a hockey game. He wouldnt stand a chance, and no coach can help him.....Sorry top, but i am younger and probably faster.

[G_Money]

Nolan has coached the LBs before. Didn't do so good...

With Reeves? C'mon.

The guy was great with the Giants and great with the Ravens. Even if our players aren't as good, he should be able to be adequate with us, and adequate would be a huge step up from the suckitude we find ourselves in now.

And have found ourselves in.

A defense that could stop somebody occasionally might let our offense gain traction.

I don't need us to be a monster defense, I just need our offense to be able to 3-and-out occasionally without losing the lead. It's obviously too much pressure for them right now.

Take some pressure off. A better coordinator would certainly help.

~G

[G_Money]

I disagreed with you. He was defensive coordinator of the Baltimore Ravens and look at Ravens' defense team. Strong one. Who built that defense team? MIKE NOLAN! I think he is perfect for Broncos.

Nolan didn't build it. Marvin Lewis did. But Nolan did understand it, and carried it on without missing much.

Great players had a lot to do with that, but Nolan has understood D at most of his stops.

Unlike Slowik who never has at any of them.

~G

[dogfish]

So instead of having a new DC every year, we should start having 2 a year?

my belief is that slowbrain needs to be fired (immediately) just on general principles. . . NOT because i necessarily think someone else will do better with these players, but just because he is so incredibly inept that he does not in any way, shape or form deserve to be employed by the enver broncos. . . is it his fault that we have poor talent? no, but he has to accept some accountability for the fact that they're going out there and showing some of the poorest fundamentals you will ever see from a supposed NFL unit. . . the "tackling" is beyond atrocious. . . we're actually worse than last year, and i'm not sure that anyone thought that was possible. . . :frusty:

slow (appropriate name if i've ever heard one) hasn't even earned the right to try to turn things around. . . maybe this kind of performance is acceptable in places like detroit, but it sure the hell shouldn't be here. . . if any one of us went into our jobs and performed as pitifully as he has, is there any question how long it would take us to be shown the door? put out the absolute worst product in the industry, and that's what you get. . .

i'd love to see us bring in an established guy like nolan who's actually had success elsewhere and give him a shot-- it certainly can't hurt anything!

[BroncoTech]

Nolan has coached the LBs before. Didn't do so good...

He didn't look very good throwing Alex Smith to the wolves his rookie year either. I say we need something, but Nolan isn't it. Nothing short of Montey Kiffen could turn this group around. Maybe Dick Nolan. But not Lane Kiffen or Mike Nolan. All these former Bay Area coaches are riding on their father's coat tails.

[red98]

I disagreed with you. He was defensive coordinator of the Baltimore Ravens and look at Ravens' defense team. Strong one. Who built that defense team? MIKE NOLAN! I think he is perfect for Broncos.

Do you remember when he was DC of the Giants? Not so good.

Though we need a shake up here for sure!

[G_Money]

No coach, nor any amount of coaching can fix our seivefense.

We could take the ravens coach, eagles, titans it wont matter. The only help a new coach would bring is DL coach and maybe some scheme tweaks, but we simply dont have the talent.

Its like me vs topscribe in a hockey game. He wouldnt stand a chance, and no coach can help him.....Sorry top, but i am younger and probably faster.

We have never added a ton of defensive talent.

Coaching HAS to make up the difference for us. Blitzing, utilizing the players we DO have, whatever.

We're not gonna draft the greatest defense to ever play. And even if we did, with THIS defense that can't stop the run, reach the passer, defend the pass, or get off the field on third down, how would we use those great players to the best of their ability anyway?

Yes, crappy players will make a good DC look average.

But a crappy DC will make good players look average too. Look at Champ. And DJ. Useless on this D. No impact at all.

If we GET a good DC at least we might finally find out who on the team can actually play.

And a good DC might be able to better advise Shanny on what talent to add to his side of the ball. Didn't work with Bates obviously, but it COULD help.

And we need all the hep we can get.

~G

[Bronco4ever]

He didn't look very good throwing Alex Smith to the wolves his rookie year either. I say we need something, but Nolan isn't it. Nothing short of Montey Kiffen could turn this group around. Maybe Dick Nolan. But not Lane Kiffen or Mike Nolan. All these former Bay Area coaches are riding on their father's coat tails.

But can anyone do worse than Slowik? 7 games into the season and I don't know how our defense can play any worse than it is now. Atleast we could get some fresh ideas and try to ignite the defense.

[G_Money]

Do you remember when he was DC of the Giants? Not so good.

Though we need a shake up here for sure!

Mike Nolan, DC of the Giants 93-96:

1993: 1st in points, 5th in yards
1994: 8th in points, 11th in yards
1995: 16th in points, 17th in yards
1996: 10th in points, 14th in yards

That's with an O ranked in the bottom of the league his last 3 years there. His offense was 3-and-out all over the place and the D still played. With a top-third O instead of a bottom-third (the Giants were 28th, 29th and 30th in ypg those last three years...) he'd have shown better, too.

He wasn't a defensive genius in NY, but his side of the ball more than held up their end.

That's all I'm asking for.

~G

[PatricktheDookie]

i'd love to see us bring in an established guy like nolan who's actually had success elsewhere and give him a shot-- it certainly can't hurt anything!

Jim Bates?

[red98]

Mike Nolan, DC of the Giants 93-96:

1993: 1st in points, 5th in yards
1994: 8th in points, 11th in yards
1995: 16th in points, 17th in yards
1996: 10th in points, 14th in yards

That's with an O ranked in the bottom of the league his last 3 years there. His offense was 3-and-out all over the place and the D still played. With a top-third O instead of a bottom-third (the Giants were 28th, 29th and 30th in ypg those last three years...) he'd have shown better, too.

He wasn't a defensive genius in NY, but his side of the ball more than held up their end.

That's all I'm asking for.

~G

Hmmm. I think I need to re-think my postion. I was just going of (faulty) memory...

[G_Money]

Hmmm. I think I need to re-think my postion. I was just going of (faulty) memory...

When I say Reeves' offense was bad, understand:

When it was 28th in the league there were only 28 teams.

Next year it went up to 30, and then his O was 29th.

Year after that it bottomed out again in 30th position. Those are all YPG rankings, but Dan's O never moved the ball ANYWHERE.

Nolan's D was the only thing keeping games from becoming routs. He's done good work as a coordinator.

I'd sure let him get his feet under him here. At least he has a resume and a good defensive head on his shoulders. Slowik has nothing.

If we buy into the "can't keep shedding DCs every year, gotta give one a chance for 2-3 years" philosophy, then can we please at least start with a DC who's been successful?

Slowik has led some of the most horrible defenses in the league during his various tenures.

You can't say that about Nolan. Get in Nolan, or Ron Rivera, or hell bring in Wade Phillips when he gets canned next week, and THEN give em 3 guaranteed years.

Get a real DC. None of this Shananan-favorites club stuff - unless Shanny likes Nolan of course. Then by all means, more favorites. just the RIGHT ones, please.

~G

[CrazyHorse]

Jim Bates?
Hahahahaha
:lol::lol::lol:

[Magnificent Seven]

Nolan didn't build it. Marvin Lewis did. But Nolan did understand it, and carried it on without missing much.

Great players had a lot to do with that, but Nolan has understood D at most of his stops.

Unlike Slowik who never has at any of them.

~G

Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan built it together.

[G_Money]

Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan built it together.

Um...

Lewis was killin' it as the DC of the Ravens in '99 while Nolan was in Washington. That's where Nolan was not good, btw - but it was a Norv Turner team. I mean come on...

Nolan came over a couple years later. He basically took over for Lewis, who I think went to the Skins because he was still in limbo by taking all these HC job interviews. So Billick brought in Nolan in case Marvin ever got one, and then Lewis cooled his heels in Washington for another year waiting for that awesome Bengals job to appear.

Nolan carried it on really well, but I don't think he actually helped build it. It was already well established by the time he got his hands on it.

Still, he's been good with good parts, terrible with terrible parts and great with great parts.

I guess that would make it imperative that we at least have average parts for him to work with, wouldn't it?

Still much better than Slowik, who's been terrible with any parts he's ever been given.

~G

[lex]

When I say Reeves' offense was bad, understand:

When it was 28th in the league there were only 28 teams.

Next year it went up to 30, and then his O was 29th.

Year after that it bottomed out again in 30th position. Those are all YPG rankings, but Dan's O never moved the ball ANYWHERE.

Nolan's D was the only thing keeping games from becoming routs. He's done good work as a coordinator.

I'd sure let him get his feet under him here. At least he has a resume and a good defensive head on his shoulders. Slowik has nothing.

If we buy into the "can't keep shedding DCs every year, gotta give one a chance for 2-3 years" philosophy, then can we please at least start with a DC who's been successful?

Slowik has led some of the most horrible defenses in the league during his various tenures.

You can't say that about Nolan. Get in Nolan, or Ron Rivera, or hell bring in Wade Phillips when he gets canned next week, and THEN give em 3 guaranteed years.

Get a real DC. None of this Shananan-favorites club stuff - unless Shanny likes Nolan of course. Then by all means, more favorites. just the RIGHT ones, please.

~G

Thank you!

[lex]

my belief is that slowbrain needs to be fired (immediately) just on general principles. . . NOT because i necessarily think someone else will do better with these players, but just because he is so incredibly inept that he does not in any way, shape or form deserve to be employed by the enver broncos. . . is it his fault that we have poor talent? no, but he has to accept some accountability for the fact that they're going out there and showing some of the poorest fundamentals you will ever see from a supposed NFL unit. . . the "tackling" is beyond atrocious. . . we're actually worse than last year, and i'm not sure that anyone thought that was possible. . . :frusty:

slow (appropriate name if i've ever heard one) hasn't even earned the right to try to turn things around. . . maybe this kind of performance is acceptable in places like detroit, but it sure the hell shouldn't be here. . . if any one of us went into our jobs and performed as pitifully as he has, is there any question how long it would take us to be shown the door? put out the absolute worst product in the industry, and that's what you get. . .

i'd love to see us bring in an established guy like nolan who's actually had success elsewhere and give him a shot-- it certainly can't hurt anything!


I think it is his fault we have poor talent in that he makes them look worse than what they are because of flawed scheme.

[gobroncsnv]

I guess that would make it imperative that we at least have average parts for him to work with, wouldn't it?



Getting average players would be an improvement for us... Our first defensive series, might have even been the first play, Lowry came up in the gap where he saw the play run to, tried a big hit and bounced off... You just can't coach that... :tsk:

Maybe getting a new DC is what we'll do, but getting better players is all that is going to work. If Nolan was terrible with terrible players at a previous stint, then I already have an idea how it'll work out if he comes here. I'm glad Shanny showed some fire at the presser, but such emotion might have been better spent preparing the team. This one reminded me of the 2005 AFC Champ game... TOTAL team breakdown. coaching, offense, defense, (although we did get some sacks... but including that, it would still take $4 to get out of Starbucks.)

[Jerz]

As long as we bring someone in here that is going to hold this joke of a defense accountable, Im tired of watching our LB's every week not holding up their gap responsibilty and it keeps happening which means they are not listening or Slowdrip is not holding them accountable

[Magnificent Seven]

Nolan or Greg Robinson!

[G_Money]

We are the most undisciplined bunch of a-holes around.

It's terrifying how hard it is for us to do the little things right.

Nate Webster can hit someone occasionally, and DJ can hug himself, but there's no trust on that D for the other guy to make the play if you JUST HOLD YOUR GAP.

Maybe that's with good reason. The whole Champ-less secondary tonight was awful, our LBs were awful...hell, our DL was the best unit on the field tonight.

But if everybody's freelancing, then nobody's doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Bates lost his guys in the first few weeks of the season, when it was obvious that an adjustment had to be made and he had no adjustment to make.

Slowik's making every adjustment he can think of, except ones that might work, and his D can see he has no faith in himself or in them. And they're laying down again.

It's not good. Losing breeds losers, and being quit on breeds quitters.

Can't have that continue.

~G

[Simple Jaded]

I used to think that the Broncos should stick with a DC for more than one season, now I'm beginning to think that maybe they should wait til they have an actual DC to stick with.

Nolan would qualify, but I'm not sure there is a legitimate candidate that'd want this job......

[dogfish]

Jim Bates?

what about him? just because we brought him in and it didn't work, doesn't mean that we can't ever bring in another guy that's had success before. . . hell, i said during the offseason that i would rather stick with bates than promote slowik, and he hasn't done a thing to make me re-think that. . .


I used to think that the Broncos should stick with a DC for more than one season, now I'm beginning to think that maybe they should wait til they have an actual DC to stick with.

Nolan would qualify, but I'm not sure there is a legitimate candidate that'd want this job......

come on, it has to be at least slightly better than no job, doesn't it?

nevermind, don't answer that. . . . :fear:

[Simple Jaded]

come on, it has to be at least slightly better than no job, doesn't it?

nevermind, don't answer that. . . . :fear:

It's better than a jab in the ass with a sharp stick......

[dogfish]

It's better than a jab in the ass with a sharp stick......

barely. . . . :lol:



okay, here's my thought process. . . i'm NOT interested in making slowick the scapegoat for a terrible team loss, or for the worst efense in the league (there's plenty of blame to go around!)-- i do think he needs to get canned for what looks to me like complete incompetence, but i have other reasons as well. . .

as frickin' SHITTY as this game was, and as down as we all feel about it right now, the bottom line is that it's only one game. . . yes, we looked absolutely pathetic and got totally embarrassed on national TV, but when we wake up tomorrow we're STILL in first place in a weak division. . . it's not like the chargers are tearing it up right now, and beating the jets doesn't mean that oakland doesn't still stink. . . san diego could very well go over to london and get their sorry secondary ripped apart by drew brees, leaving us with a game-and-a-half lead plus the tiebreaker in hand. . . this year is a long way from over, and when you're over .500 even the worst loss in mid-october is a long way from the end of your season. . . no matter how bad it feels right now!

i'm as disappointed as anyone else, and i'm just going to say it and save somebody else the trouble. . . "what does that stuff matter? if we keep playing like this we might not win another game!" no doubt, and i'm as aware as anyone else of our recent tendency to start hot and then fade into oblivion-- and yes, a blowout loss like this DOES give me that sinking feeling in my stomach like "here we go again". . .

but. . . new england got hammered just as bad by san diego and miami, and that didn't stop them from cleaning our clocks and getting to 4-2, and they're missing their best player. . . we're hardly the only team in the AFC to have flaws, and in a year when there isn't one dominant power in the conference the way there has been in years past, it's not too late to turn things around IF cutler and bailey are going to be available going forward (and i assume that jay will be since he finished the game-- we'll have to wait and see on champ). . . obviously, we're never going to be competitive if we can't stop turning the ball over four times a game, but i can't help but feel like that should be a correctable problem. . . we'll see. . . but the way the offense was playing early in the year, it's certainly possible that we can get back to that once we get everybody healthy-- the talent is clearly there. . .

and while i'm afraid we're going to be limited all year on defense with this personnel, it's no excuse to stop trying. . . what kind of pansy waves the white flag when you're in first place in your division?? yea, we're really starting to slide, and it doesn't look good-- so do you give up, throw your hands in the air and just go along with the inevitable, or do you kick and fight like hell and do every single thing you can possibly think of to get it turned around? personally, i'm in favor of the latter, and i don't see what trying a different DC can possibly hurt-- we're already the worst efense in the league. . . . :tsk: i know that changing the cordinator isn't some magic cure-all, but it isn't impossible that a different guy can come in and improve some fundamentals like tackling, do a better job teaching assignments and gap discipline, and just bring a different attitude overall. . . hell, if we could just get to about 24th in defense instead of dead last, it would be an improvement!

i know some people will say it doesn't matter, we'll never win the super bowl with this group no matter who the coordinator is, etc etc. . . and while you may be right, let me say that even if we DON'T win the super bowl this year, i still find it incomparably preferable to at least start building something for the future on that side of the ball than to just helplessly continue to get worse and worse. . . the further we let guys get set in that losing mentality, the hader it is to get out of it. . . did you hear what ron jaworski said, what myself and quite a few of us have been saying for a while now? you need to pick a scheme and stick to it, and right now we have none. . . if we could bring in a halfway competent DC (it doesn't have to be buddy ryan), if nothing else we can at least get a head start on next year-- i mean, who honestly feels comfortable with slowbrain going forward? go ahead, let's see a show of hands. . . the bye gives you an extra week to start installing your scheme, and the new DC has half a year to evaluate our current "talent," see what fits and who has potential to grow in the system, and what our most glaring needs are going into free agency and the draft. . . and maybe, just MAYYYBE somebody else could find a way to get more from guys like moss, crowder, and thomas. . .

i still think there's at least SOME potential for improvement this year, but even if things don't get any better, any stiff off the street could come in and run a unit that gives up 30+ points per game and can't stop a pop warner offense. . . it's not like we can improve the talent at this point, but IMO that's no excuse for not trying something. . . . nolan wouldn't be my first choice if we had everyone in the league to pick from, but right now i'd be content to give just about anyone other than slowbrain a chance to see what they can do. . . hell, give joe the friggin' plummer a call and see if he's busy for the rest of the year. . . .

[56crash]

People need to understabd Slowik can go back to being our CB coach strange as that sounds

[Magnificent Seven]

Slowik could move back to CB coach and hire Mike Nolan for Broncos' defensive coordinator.

[Simple Jaded]

Btw, on NE's last TD, Denver had only ten players on the field......

[dogfish]

Btw, on NE's last TD, Denver had only ten players on the field......

you mean we had more than that earlier in the game?


:noidea:

[56crash]

you mean we had more than that earlier in the game?


:noidea:

the S well lined up were blocking for the other side ...lol

[omac]

Although I don't blame Slowik for this one, ( players were awful ) without a doubt we would be "much" better under Nolan.

We will not win a superbowl with Slowik, we can with Nolan.

What a great idea. The timing couldn't be better; we're on a bye, and Nolan was just fired. And with the way our offense can score when healthy, they can just continue to carry the slack.

The other good thing about getting Nolan now is that the defense can get better for next season, and Nolan will help with defensive acquisitions in the draft and FA/trades.

[omac]

He didn't look very good throwing Alex Smith to the wolves his rookie year either. I say we need something, but Nolan isn't it. Nothing short of Montey Kiffen could turn this group around. Maybe Dick Nolan. But not Lane Kiffen or Mike Nolan. All these former Bay Area coaches are riding on their father's coat tails.

Nolan sucks as a head coach, and his forte is defense not offense, so he really didn't know what he was doing in drafting and developing Alex Smith. I think he's much better at gauging and developing defensive talent. That's been the hole in Denver for quite some time.

[Broncolingus]

I too USUALLY say to give a dude some time to 'prove' himself, but this defense is screwed up in a MAJOR way right now...

...Nolan is a PROVEN good DC.

I'm going to make an exception to my rule this once and say line up Nolan and dump Slow-lick.

[broncofaninfla]

Although I don't blame Slowik for this one, ( players were awful ) without a doubt we would be "much" better under Nolan.

We will not win a superbowl with Slowik, we can with Nolan.

I agree! This is a guy we can build a system with. Let's face it, he would be starting from scratch and could potentially be Mike's replacement when he choses to ride off into the sunset.

[omac]

I agree! This is a guy we can build a system with. Let's face it, he would be starting from scratch and could potentially be Mike's replacement when he choses to ride off into the sunset.

Nolan for DC, yes; for future head coach, heck no! He was given tons of time, all the control he wanted, even personel decisions, and lots of chances at SF, and he messed up badly. He should stay a DC. He's no head coach.

[56crash]

after some thought this guy might salvage our season ...

[LRtagger]

Finally people are starting to see what an incompitant buffoon Slowik is. He has always been terrible and he always will be terrible. He should be fired TODAY or at least before the next practice. I shudder to think about how he will "gameplan" for the Wildcat offense.

http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/index.php?showtopic=2987&hl

[jrelway]

get nolan in here, let him have the 09 draft to take all defensive players, and give him a good 3-4 years to see what he can do with it. If We keep slowik, same crap happens next year.

[BigSarge87]

Scheme or Players? As bad as they are right now, I can't help but think it's both. However, it's a lot easier to fix one than the other. Obviously we need better players on defense, but I say we start by fixing the DC problem first.

[atwater27]

So instead of having a new DC every year, we should start having 2 a year?

Not the point. We need a good one. Not some noname, has been or retread.

[broncofaninfla]

Our scheme sucks and we lack talent on the defensive side of the ball. We need to start from scratch why not start now with Nolan as DC. Like mentioned above, give him the freedoom to draft players for his system and build a defense that we deserve. I would LOVE to see Shanny get Nolan!!!

[haroldthebarrel]

We have a cordinator that is way over his head.

Fire him now, before he does more damage.

The fundamentals are bad. Tackling sucks!
The scemes are bad. Well they are inconsistant feast or famine.
The mental toughness isnt there. We stopped them to six points on two turnovers.
I mentally tough defense like the Ravens or Bills would have kept in there.
The talent sucks. Not Slowiks fault as we seem to have drafted ok on secondary.
But since he should not be there, lets get a cordinator with continuity and let him do it.

And finally. A great defensive mind available doesnt happen very often. Even if it hurts mr Slowiks feelings we should in my opinion take a shot at Nolan!

[NameUsedBefore]

No better time to do it than right before a bye week, really.

But, quite frankly, can anyone actually salvage that defense?

[jrelway]

No better time to do it than right before a bye week, really.

But, quite frankly, can anyone actually salvage that defense?

i dont think Nolan can salvage our D this year, but i bet he drafts better and prepares a fresh new D for next year.

[Lonestar]

i dont think Nolan can salvage our D this year, but i bet he drafts better and prepares a fresh new D for next year.

But he can figure out who are players and who are not.. and just maybe figure out a way to make us semi decent this year..

I do not think that the current staff has a clue to many yes men on the payroll..

[BroncoTech]

How much do you want to pay someone to tell you that the problem is our guys are getting blocked so hard the are flying sideways in the background of every running play. If you're horizontal, flying through the air after being blocked you are probably out of position to make a tackle.

I don't know what you were going to pay this Nolan guy based on his record from 1991 but the NFL is a what have you done for me lately type of business and Nolan stunk it up for the 49'rs and that's why he's available.

Our guys are getting creamed out there no matter who has coached them, they've lost to the worst team in the NFL (Chiefs) and made every running back they've faced look like the second coming of Jim Brown.

We need to find some men with hearts and motors not these Nancy boys that have been showing up on Sundays (and now Monday). Run off tackle at Bly and pick up 8 to 20 yards a pop. It's too easy to beat us.

[DenBronx]

nolan would be a smart choice. frankly this would be the best dc on the open market anyway. this couldnt have happened at a better time for him to be fired. nolan i think would put some fire back in the d and i think him and shanny would turn this thing around. this might be the best move for next year. this gives nolan the rest of this year to evaluate the talent we have and get rid of the fodder. this year would be a wash but it would only help us prepare for the future.

please....please...please get nolan.

[Lonestar]

How much do you want to pay someone to tell you that the problem is our guys are getting blocked so hard the are flying sideways in the background of every running play. If you're horizontal, flying through the air after being blocked you are probably out of position to make a tackle.

I don't know what you were going to pay this Nolan guy based on his record from 1991 but the NFL is a what have you done for me lately type of business and Nolan stunk it up for the 49'rs and that's why he's available.

Our guys are getting creamed out there no matter who has coached them, they've lost to the worst team in the NFL (Chiefs) and made every running back they've faced look like the second coming of Jim Brown.

We need to find some men with hearts and motors not these Nancy boys that have been showing up on Sundays (and now Monday). Run off tackle at Bly and pick up 8 to 20 yards a pop. It's too easy to beat us.

Yes it is what have you done for me lately

But there is a "Peter Principle" going here, you rise to your level of incompetence. Which he did as Head Coach of a really lousy team when he stepped in..

He was great DC in a couple of different cities much like Bates was , Like Ray Rhodes was..

Being great as something and then being asked to move on to the next level and perhaps failing or not being the best their should not disqualify him from taking a step back and being great again..

[deacon]

I disagreed with you. He was defensive coordinator of the Baltimore Ravens and look at Ravens' defense team. Strong one. Who built that defense team? MIKE NOLAN! I think he is perfect for Broncos.

i think Marvin Lewis might disagree with you on who built that team.

[Lonestar]

i think Marvin Lewis might disagree with you on who built that team.

Think the ex TE for CLE GM for BAL.. built it via the draft.. Name escapes me at the moment..

Marvin Lewis was just there to teach it..

[turftoad]

Think the ex TE for CLE GM for BAL.. built it via the draft.. Name escapes me at the moment..

Marvin Lewis was just there to teach it..

Ozzie Newsome :D

[Lonestar]

Ozzie Newsome :D

Yep Had Brain fart..

he is superb wonder if Mikey would hire him instead.. and fire himself as GM

[Simple Jaded]

I too USUALLY say to give a dude some time to 'prove' himself, but this defense is screwed up in a MAJOR way right now...

...Nolan is a PROVEN good DC.

I'm going to make an exception to my rule this once and say line up Nolan and dump Slow-lick.

Well, to be fair, Nolan is proven to be a good DC with the likes of Ray Lewis, Chris McAlister, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs and Peter Boulware.

Aside from Bailey, he wouldn't be having anything close to that kind of talent in Denver......

[Broncolingus]

Well, to be fair, Nolan is proven to be a good DC with the likes of Ray Lewis, Chris McAlister, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs and Peter Boulware.

Aside from Bailey, he wouldn't be having anything close to that kind of talent in Denver......

No disagree, Link and I thought about that...

...just thought he'd done a decent job in SF too...nothing like Baltimore of course, but certainly not always in the bottom 5 (ala Slow-lick).

[Simple Jaded]

No disagree, Link and I thought about that...

...just thought he'd done a decent job in SF too...nothing like Baltimore of course, but certainly not always in the bottom 5 (ala Slow-lick).

He's still a proven DC, you can't take that away from him......and Slowik has proven himself too, it's just that he's proven to completely suck as a DC......

[Broncolingus]

He's still a proven DC, you can't take that away from him......and Slowik has proven himself too, it's just that he's proven to completely suck as a DC......

Amen, brother...

[ApaOps5]

His 49ers are ranked 20th in the league. Thats the bottom and people want him to come here with even less talent for a 3-4. Eh you have to pick a DC and stick with it.

[G_Money]

Nolan's team has been pretty bad on D in all his years as a HC.

He's not the coordinator though. When he IS the coordinator, his teams are fine-to-great - other than that Washington disaster, which was a Norv Turner thing.

Giants 93-96: 1st to 16th in points, 5th to 17th in yards

Skins 97-99: average first year, mid-to-low 20s the last 2 years.

Jets 2000: 13th in points, 10th in yards

Ravens 2002-2004: Top 6 in both every year cept 2002, at 19th and 22nd. (they had him listed as the WR coach in 2001?). 2002 was a big FA cut and rebuild year for them. He helped restock that D.

SF 2005-2008: Atrocious. Bottom 5 D every year, but he's not the DC.

Nolan is not good at making all the decisions. But much like I wouldn't say that Marvin Lewis can't coach D because the Bengals suck at it, I'd give Mike the same benefit of the doubt there. Wade Phillips has soft Ds when he's a HC, but not as a DC. There's something about the job of being a head coach that makes some guys unable to harness the same gifts they had as coordinators.

Mike Nolan is a good coordinator. I wouldn't call him the best, but he's a damn sight better than anything we've had around here in a while, certainly over the last 2 seasons.

We could try calling up Coyer and apologizing, or getting Ron Rivera to ditch SD to come here, or taking a stab at a defensive coaching tree like the Philly/NY one and prying a limb off of that.

But failing those options, getting Nolan to rehab his image by taking a DC job with us is definitely viable to me.

For reference:

DENVER BRONCOS:

28th in points in 2007, 19th in yards but only because teams were content to run on us all the time, which reduces overall yardage.

31st in points in 2008, 32nd in yards as teams both run AND pass all over us.

We might need to find a coordinator to stick with, but I would have put up with Coyer's yards-but-no-points schemes for years longer than these yards-and-points-for everyone jokes of the last couple of seasons.

I wanna stick with one guy, but not if that guy's Slowik. His defense is everything I was terrified it would be after seeing him in Green Bay for that disastrous year. He's learned nothing since. Dump him.

~G

[Superchop 7]

His 49ers are ranked 20th in the league. Thats the bottom and people want him to come here with even less talent for a 3-4. Eh you have to pick a DC and stick with it.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________


Nolan is a "hands on" DC.

He is very good.

He is not a head coach.

What he did in San Fran means zero.

BTW, what is Slowik rated?

He wasn't the DC in San Fran.

His work at DC got him the job.

Some guys are meant to be head coach.

Others (Nolan) are meant to be DC.

As for Bates........spare me.

[denbroncofan26]

Like 8 new ones

the only ones worth a damn are Bailey, Webster and DJ

And DOOM!

[JONtheBRONCO]

It's the talent dudes.

[Medford Bronco]

And DOOM!

on passing downs only, he cant stop the run to save his life

[dogfish]

on passing downs only, he cant stop the run to save his life

hey, whattaya expect from a guy that's 5'11"? it's not his fault that shanahan can't find D-linemen to save his life, and has to try to turn a pass rush specialist into a fulltime starter. . . elvis is very good at what he does, and he fights like hell to overcome his physical limitations-- and is a lot more productive than almost all of the stiffs we've rotated in on the line since berry and heyward left. . . i think we can all agree that we'd rather have an all-around end starting in that spot and doom coming in with the nickel and dime packages, but given my choice between a guy that can produce a lot of sacks but doesn't play the run well, and some scrub that doesn't do anything well, i'll take the one-dimensional guy every time-- at least he's giving us something while he's out there, and not standing around with his thumb up his butt. . . .

[topscribe]

Like 8 new ones

the only ones worth a damn are Bailey, Webster and DJ

Really? Couldn't disagree more, Med.

I also like Robertson, Thomas, Dumervil, Ekuban, Boss, and Bly.

And I don't like Webster, except as a sub, maybe.


Oh yes, and I like what I've seen of Woodyard, so far . . .


-----

[haroldthebarrel]

Some men can be great coaches and great cordinators.
Some may be just great cordinators. Some are just great position coaches.
I think obviously Shanahan is a great Head coach. I think Nolan is at the very least a great cordinator. In fact, I think of the two great defensive cordinators who have been bad as a HC I think Nolan and Gregg Williams might be great the second time around if given a shot.
Slowik is a great position coach and that's it.

And as far as our defense is concerned. They have regressed from being decent or good under Coyer. How I warned about change for the sake of change.
What we need now is coaching talent, a motivator and stability/consistency.
There is no way anybody with a clear eye can see that we will be stable under Slowik.
He will get fired, the question is how fast you wanna bite the sour apple.
And when he is fired, should we take a shot of somebody risky, or somebody with a proven record and how soon do we find that guy?
Nolan is there for the taking. Are there anybody who, if we give Nolan three years, do not expect our defense to be good to great under him?

[broken12]

Something needs to happen or this season is a total loss!! With the talent on offense and some good talent on d bailey, williams, dummerville, roberts, robertson there is something to build off! The main problem is the players are not being put in position to make a play, the reason the zone look from the corners worked so well in the past for us is because bailey and darrent were quick to the recievers and good tacklers wich bly is not either quick nor tackling wich is why opposing qbs are attacking him at the short slants and running to the left, defenses right!

[lex]

Id be for Donatell, Nolan,...someone with some demonstrated acumen on the defensive side of the ball...and Im not so sure a 3-4 coach couldnt make a 4-3 work either...especially at the pro level.

[rcsodak]

With Reeves? C'mon.

The guy was great with the Giants and great with the Ravens. Even if our players aren't as good, he should be able to be adequate with us, and adequate would be a huge step up from the suckitude we find ourselves in now.

And have found ourselves in.

A defense that could stop somebody occasionally might let our offense gain traction.

I don't need us to be a monster defense, I just need our offense to be able to 3-and-out occasionally without losing the lead. It's obviously too much pressure for them right now.

Take some pressure off. A better coordinator would certainly help.

~G

Isn't that what was said about the previous DC? :confused:

[G_Money]

Sadly, the previous DC was better than this one.

Nolan's also better with a 3-4 than a 4-3, but he got hands-on with his D at the end of the season a couple years ago to re-scheme and create a winning 2nd half that knocked US out of the playoffs in the last game. We do remember that, right?

Then I think he fired his idiot DC and hired...another idiot DC. So staff is not his strong point.

Nolan can adjust, which Bates never could. He was unsuccessful in his first stint as a HC. Many, many coaches are.

If you don't think he's better than Slowik, who has NEVER done ANYTHING worth acknowledging as a coach - unless you consider cashing large checks while never being worth even the paper they are printing on to be a remarkable achievement - then I'll have to disagree.

If you don't want a re-tread DC, then I can understand that. But honestly most coaches are re-treads. Very few rise up to take the reins and do it successfully their first time out.

Nolan's had fairly-to-very successful stints at 3 separate stops. Washington was not a shining moment for him, but having Turner around complicates that assessment. The guy can ruin anything. He's like William H. Macy in The Cooler. Just sucks the luck right outta ya as a HC.

And Nolan failed in SF as the head man. But I don't want him to be the head man here. I want him to fix my defense.

It's hard to say if he knows how to draft defensive talent, as his SF drafts were mostly on offense, except for the '07 draft.

Defensive draftpicks:

2005:
5th) Ronald Fields, decent rotational DT, which is fine for a 5th round player. Better than our 2nd round inactive Tim Crowder right now, anyway.

2006:
1st) Manny Lawson, LB, who looked pretty good til he blew his knee out. Is just now making his way back, tho he pulled a hammy again I think.

5th) Parys Haralson, OLB. Interesting player who has some pass-rushing skills that he's starting to develop, and is a decent all-around player.

2007:
1st) Patrick Willis, LB, Defensive Rookie of The Year, led the league in tackles. All around bad mo-fo, like it says on the wallet.

3) Ray McDonald, DE. He's tipping passes and blocking kicks and generally hustling his ass off while learning the DE position at the pro level. I'd take him over Moss right now, that's for damn sure. Didn't they attend the same school?

4) Jay Moore, LB (think maybe Nolan didn't like his LBs?). Spent 07 on IR I think.

4) Dashon Goldson, S. Sort of a hybrid Paymah-like player and ST guy. He's started a couple games this year tho when they go with one more DB and one less LB, I believe.

4) Joe Cohen, DL. Injured and then waived I think.

5)Tarell Brown, DB. Getting a little playing time this year with some injuries, mostly as a nickel back, and he's not doing too badly so far.

2008:
1) Kentwan Balmer, DT/DE, and is somebody you'd want to believe could be the next Trevor Pryce. Way too early to say, but he was definitely viewed as a stud in the making. Should be, I guess, as a first rounder. Hasn't done anything this year tho.

Does that tell us anything? Nolan likes to draft LBs, which makes sense since that's what he knows best. He's had good luck so far with DL, which we haven't. And he does okay in later rounds.

For a small sample over just a couple of years, it doesn't strike resounding fear into my heart over his ability to identify decent defensive talent.

*shrugs*

We could do worse. Have done worse. Are currently doing way worse.

I dunno if he'd come here, but I'd offer and find out.

~G

[ikillz0mbies]

If it were up to me, I'd hire G_Money as defensive coordinator.....seriously.

[lex]

Isn't that what was said about the previous DC? :confused:

http://www.dack.com/archive/bob-slowik-must-be-fired.html

The previous guy had to clean up Slowiks mess in Green Bay. In his case in Denver (Bates that is) they didnt have the patience for the system to be implemented which meant acquiring other personnel. But Bates was/is a superior DC to Slowik and its not even close. If you actually read the points made by the Green Bay fan in the link I furnished, youll see that the DCs immediately before and after Slowik were competent while Slowik is not. And if we would have had the same personnel last year on defense plus this offense to go with it, our defense would have been a lot better. Think about it. Instead of Amon Gordon and Sam Adams, we could have had Robertson and Thomas. Our defense is worse this year even with the advantages they didnt have last year...and on top of that, the idea was that Slowiks philosophy better suited the personnel we already had.

[slim]

Some men can be great coaches and great cordinators.
Some may be just great cordinators. Some are just great position coaches.
I think obviously Shanahan is a great Head coach. I think Nolan is at the very least a great cordinator. In fact, I think of the two great defensive cordinators who have been bad as a HC I think Nolan and Gregg Williams might be great the second time around if given a shot.
Slowik is a great position coach and that's it.

And as far as our defense is concerned. They have regressed from being decent or good under Coyer. How I warned about change for the sake of change.
What we need now is coaching talent, a motivator and stability/consistency.
There is no way anybody with a clear eye can see that we will be stable under Slowik.
He will get fired, the question is how fast you wanna bite the sour apple.
And when he is fired, should we take a shot of somebody risky, or somebody with a proven record and how soon do we find that guy?
Nolan is there for the taking. Are there anybody who, if we give Nolan three years, do not expect our defense to be good to great under him?

Nice post.

Man, I still have a bad test in my mouth from letting Coyer go. How bad was that decision?

[Retired_Member_001]

If it were up to me, I'd hire G_Money as defensive coordinator.....seriously.

I'd hire G_Money as GM.

[lex]

Some men can be great coaches and great cordinators.
Some may be just great cordinators. Some are just great position coaches.
I think obviously Shanahan is a great Head coach. I think Nolan is at the very least a great cordinator. In fact, I think of the two great defensive cordinators who have been bad as a HC I think Nolan and Gregg Williams might be great the second time around if given a shot.
Slowik is a great position coach and that's it.

And as far as our defense is concerned. They have regressed from being decent or good under Coyer. How I warned about change for the sake of change.
What we need now is coaching talent, a motivator and stability/consistency.
There is no way anybody with a clear eye can see that we will be stable under Slowik.
He will get fired, the question is how fast you wanna bite the sour apple.
And when he is fired, should we take a shot of somebody risky, or somebody with a proven record and how soon do we find that guy?
Nolan is there for the taking. Are there anybody who, if we give Nolan three years, do not expect our defense to be good to great under him?

Bates is/was a proven DC but was pushed aside after only a few games. If there was ever a guy to "not make change for the sake of change" it was him. He has the track record to justify giving some time to fix things. Bates is likely a better DC than Coyer but wasnt given the time to implement things.

[G_Money]

Bates might be a better DC than Coyer, but honestly I don't know.

He took over for Wannstadt as the DC in Miami, and most of their impact guys were made into impact guys BY Wannstadt, who also stayed on as HC.

We know Wannstadt is a good DC. He goes everywhere Jimmy Johnson goes, and Jimmy's always had great defenses. Jimmy's also been able to get great talent at most of his stops, so that always helps, but how would I know whether Bates is any better than Coyer or Nolan at doing the best with what he's given?

Bates showed he can't adjust in his short time here. He has always been accused of running his base defense out there and never making changes, even when they're obviously necessary. He doesn't adjust half to half, week to week, season to season. He just starts the defense up and rolls it out there.

Which worked great for him in Miami. It's worked less well in Green Bay, Atlanta, and here, all of which only got him a season on the job.

Bates showed he can carry on a great D with distinction, much as Nolan did in Baltimore. I can't say whether Coyer can do that or not, since he was never given a great D. He ran a good scoring D when he was here, til the last half of '06.

But Bates has only had significant action as a DC in Miami. He's been in football all his life, but with only one multi-year DC job.

It may just be that the situation in Miami was perfect for him, and that he needs perfection in order to be a good DC.

The situation here is far from perfect. We need somebody who can adjust a little better. Coyer was not good at adjusting either, but he has the benefit over Slowik in that his blitzing D actually worked. It was when he stopped blitzing that we got into trouble.

Whoever we get in here, I just want a DC who can take what we have (All-pro corner with a couple of other decent corners, one Pro-Bowl LB with some young, inexperienced guys and some journeymen, disasters at safety and a rotational DL that should be adequate and is instead atrocious) and make something useful out of it.

While we wait for whatever defensive talent we draft (and buy, and trade for...) to come in and make an impact.

If the plan is to play in a Superbowl in the next 3 years, then we should probably start adding talent to the D and hire someone who can a) TEACH that talent (something neither Bates nor Slowik could do) and b) UTILIZE that talent to the best of its abilities.

That's all I ask. Why is that too much?

~G

[lex]

Bates might be a better DC than Coyer, but honestly I don't know.

He took over for Wannstadt as the DC in Miami, and most of their impact guys were made into impact guys BY Wannstadt, who also stayed on as HC.

We know Wannstadt is a good DC. He goes everywhere Jimmy Johnson goes, and Jimmy's always had great defenses. Jimmy's also been able to get great talent at most of his stops, so that always helps, but how would I know whether Bates is any better than Coyer or Nolan at doing the best with what he's given?

Bates showed he can't adjust in his short time here. He has always been accused of running his base defense out there and never making changes, even when they're obviously necessary. He doesn't adjust half to half, week to week, season to season. He just starts the defense up and rolls it out there.

Which worked great for him in Miami. It's worked less well in Green Bay, Atlanta, and here, all of which only got him a season on the job.

Bates showed he can carry on a great D with distinction, much as Nolan did in Baltimore. I can't say whether Coyer can do that or not, since he was never given a great D. He ran a good scoring D when he was here, til the last half of '06.

But Bates has only had significant action as a DC in Miami. He's been in football all his life, but with only one multi-year DC job.

It may just be that the situation in Miami was perfect for him, and that he needs perfection in order to be a good DC.

The situation here is far from perfect. We need somebody who can adjust a little better. Coyer was not good at adjusting either, but he has the benefit over Slowik in that his blitzing D actually worked. It was when he stopped blitzing that we got into trouble.

Whoever we get in here, I just want a DC who can take what we have (All-pro corner with a couple of other decent corners, one Pro-Bowl LB with some young, inexperienced guys and some journeymen, disasters at safety and a rotational DL that should be adequate and is instead atrocious) and make something useful out of it.

While we wait for whatever defensive talent we draft (and buy, and trade for...) to come in and make an impact.

If the plan is to play in a Superbowl in the next 3 years, then we should probably start adding talent to the D and hire someone who can a) TEACH that talent (something neither Bates nor Slowik could do) and b) UTILIZE that talent to the best of its abilities.

That's all I ask. Why is that too much?

~G

It actually worked well for him in Green Bay where he had to clean up the mess that Slowik left. Green Bay still uses his defense. But in fairness to what you said about his time in Denver, Bates run a system and Shanahan brought him in to run that system. And to install that system it requires sticking to it so the current guys can learn it and/or you can identify areas that need to be replaced. So given that he ran a system and was brought in to implement that, its kind of unfair to jump to conclusions about his ability to react on the fly when installing a system requires that he stick with that system. In other words, how your judging him is not congruous with Bates installing his defense.

[G_Money]

True, Bates was hired to draft and bring in defensive players who would fit his scheme. The idea was that he would know who would fit his scheme and who wouldn't.

Except everybody we brought in was a disaster in his scheme - and out of it.

I don't blame him for not being able to adapt his scheme to fit the players we had before he got here, just for not being able to do anything once it became obvious that the players on the 07 squad in no way resembled the players who could make his base scheme work.

They're still running the Miami scheme in GB, it's true. Because the guy who's their DC also learned it in Miami, under Bates and Wannstadt.

I don't think there's a problem with the Bates scheme. It works fine when you have the right players to run it. The guy running it in GB right now, Sanders, was the LB coach in Miami and coached DL most of his career in college. He also coached the DL in GB.

Since many of our problems right now come from the fact that our DL is totally untutored in what they are supposed to do and how they are supposed to do it, and our LBs play out of position and sloppy a lot of the time, I wonder if part of the horrendous failure of Bates here was that he was unable to bring with him the teachers he needed to make "his" defense work.

Maybe he deserved more time to make it work. But we swapped out what, 6 or 7 starters from the '06 defense? Not all of them by choice, obviously, with Al and especially Darrent gone for more drastic reasons, but of the guys he brought in to run the scheme last year, how many of them have stayed on because they were talented enough to be contributors?

A couple, I guess. Peterson's still here. Thomas is still playing. But it's a tough sell to keep a guy when he's wrong about the talent to add and he can't make his scheme work without the right talent. The GB general manager obivously has a good eye for talent, and we know Jimmy Johnson did, because it was apparently a gift not given to Bates.

If you say, "I know how to run a defense, let me do it" then you'd better know how to run a defense WITH THE PLAYERS YOU HAVE. Even Slowik could probably be adequate with Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Patrick Surtain, Sam Madison, Brock Marion and crew.

Though maybe not. :tsk: Every fear I enumerated before the season has come true in the worst possible way with that guy. I'm really tired of that.

Do I think Bates was mistreated here? Well, I certainly wouldn't believe Slowik over him when it comes to defensive ideas, and that seems to be what happened. Shanny didn't like what he saw, Slowik told him Bates was wrong, and Shanny forced Bates to make a hybrid scheme halfway through the season. But when Shanahan had to force him after a month of worthless defense to bring someone down to help stuff the run, it was obvious Bates wasn't gonna last. "Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity."

Which is why we have to get someone in here who will get Shanny to pull his finger off the red-nuke button even when things aren't pretty. Blowing up the defense every year doesn't help anyone.

Bates needs a good GM to get him the right players, or his scheme is a joke. Shanahan has thus far been totally unable to add the right players in FA or the draft on defense. So it couldn't be Bates.

Slowik talks a good game but can't stick with a scheme for more than a week, can't teach any non-secondary position how to follow their responsibilities, and has an amazing talent for getting the least out of his players. So it can't be Slowik.

So for our next DC - the one who will hopefully be here a while, I'd like a few minor qualifications:

1) Has a scheme, knows how to make it work successfully in the pros.
2) Can adapt his scheme in Year One to work before all the right players are in place, so he can be around for Year Two and Year Three.
3) Can identify good defensive talent.
4) Can talk Shanny into acquiring the defensive talent he suggests.

Because Bates had #1 and #4, but not #2 or 3.

Slowik has none. Maybe #4, but we dunno whose idea it was to get Boss and the safeties.

I'd still like Ron Rivera (who's hanging out in SD waiting for Norv to get fired so he can get the HC job), Mike Nolan (who is probably drinking away his sorrows right now), Dom Capers (he's with NE now, right? They don't need his help, we do), Jim Schwartz (Titans DC, but we probably can't pry him away from best-friend Fisher without a HC slot to offer), or for young guys I'd take Raheem Morris (DC coach from Tampa who knows Kiffin's blistering style like the back of his hand) or Sean McDermott (Philly DB coach, comes from the Jim-Johnson blitzing D tree that I like so much).

What I DON'T want to see are any more 6-week disasters that then linger for the rest of the season and get fired at year-end.

Get a guy, get the RIGHT guy, tell Shanny he's not allowed to fire him until at least 2011, and then upgrade our defensive talent.

Y'know?

~G

[G_Money]

P.S. - This whole Nolan thread gives me something to talk about over the lingering bye week. So thanks to all for chatting it up with me while we're waiting for the Broncos to get off their collective asses and play Real Football again.

~G

[Lonestar]

my take on the bates situation in DEN was mikey really wanted slow as his ma.. in fact promoted him to DC before bates was either avail. or Pat forced his hand on getting Bates in here..

I do not think that slow went out of his way to force the issue with what players were here..There was a conversation I heard or saw last year that Champ comment about the players were not getting the system and they really liked slow almost int eh same breath..

I read into that, that the defense was being given the bums rush to the door and that everyone knew that slow was to be the main man after bates was gone..

How was it supposed to work.. :

MLB DJ that is a gifted athlete but has never played MLB.... and on top of all of that was going to have to call the defensive signals ..

NO signature NT type to clog the middle.. Warren did not want to do it and Sam Adams well a prime beef type guy 4-5 years ago..

NO WILL or SAM that had really ever played those positions..

Thomas as a rookie expected to come in a play considering he had not played in 18 months..

Moss still recovering from a staff infection under weight by 30-50 pounds..

Crowder expected to play from the get go..
a brand new RCB and a new so good Safety..

The only two players starting last year in their same spots from the year before were Champ and John Lynch.. everyone else newbies.. learning a new defense in new positions.. DISASTER written all over that scenario..

NOW mikey was in charge and should have never allowed this much change in such a short time or was waiting for him to fail to set in stone his boy slowic.. Y'all chose which scenario you want..

I know how I'll vote on this one..

[EastCoastBronco]

Hey G...
As I sit back and look at the DC's we've had over the past 5-6 years I can't help but wonder...Were any of them given the time they needed to implement their plans?
In this day and age it's all about the here and now. I realize drafting the proper personnel is huge but it just seems that all of the jokers we've had at DC since Ray Rhodes got the hell out of Dodge have been expected to field a top 10 defensive unit in their first year.

[G_Money]

Well, to be "fair", since Ray and Shanny had their disagreement and parted ways we've had 3 DCs.

Coyer, who was here for 4 years. Started off aggressive, wound up a bit passive, refused to fire coaches when Shanahan came to him after the season and basically resigned out of loyalty to "his guys" - many of whom were then fired anyway.

Shanny still respects Coyer for that, btw. If Coyer wanted to come back, I could see Shanahan letting him. The defenses Shanahan looked fondly on in his year end presser were mostly the scoring-tough ones of Coyer.

Then we had one year of Bates, which was basically half a year of useless Bates and half a year of a Bates/Slowik retarded Frankenstein abomination.

And now this season of lobotimized full-on Slowik.

So, three guys since the end of '02.

Coyer had the time but wouldn't give in to Shanahan's desire to modify the D after getting repeatedly burned the last half of '06 (we lost 5 of our last 7, and the fewest points given up by the D was 19, with the Chargers slapping us down for 35 and 48 points in our 2 meetings).

Bates got about 5 games before Shanny threw up and neutered him.

Slowik should commit seppuku on the field before our next home game, if he hasn't been fired yet.

The last two guys haven't been given any time, but it's hard to say how much more time they deserved. Bates was brought in to replace a DC who had gotten conservative and was now running a merely average D, and instead had a defensive sieve he called a scheme...and one none of his players understood. Maybe with more time they would have gotten it.

No one is gonna get Slowik's scheme, cuz it's different every week and most weeks it's atrocious to boot.

I hope our next DC gets more time, but I also hope our next DC is better. Giving more time to Slowik is like asking the pitbull to nicely let go of your nutsack.

Just shoot him in the head and then pry his jaws off your junk, jeez...

~G

[TheRecession]

Good idea since we are going to switch to the 3-4

[Lonestar]

Well, to be "fair", since Ray and Shanny had their disagreement and parted ways we've had 3 DCs.

Coyer, who was here for 4 years. Started off aggressive, wound up a bit passive, refused to fire coaches when Shanahan came to him after the season and basically resigned out of loyalty to "his guys" - many of whom were then fired anyway.

Shanny still respects Coyer for that, btw. If Coyer wanted to come back, I could see Shanahan letting him. The defenses Shanahan looked fondly on in his year end presser were mostly the scoring-tough ones of Coyer.

Then we had one year of Bates, which was basically half a year of useless Bates and half a year of a Bates/Slowik retarded Frankenstein abomination.

And now this season of lobotimized full-on Slowik.

So, three guys since the end of '02.

Coyer had the time but wouldn't give in to Shanahan's desire to modify the D after getting repeatedly burned the last half of '06 (we lost 5 of our last 7, and the fewest points given up by the D was 19, with the Chargers slapping us down for 35 and 48 points in our 2 meetings).

Bates got about 5 games before Shanny threw up and neutered him.

Slowik should commit seppuku on the field before our next home game, if he hasn't been fired yet.

The last two guys haven't been given any time, but it's hard to say how much more time they deserved. Bates was brought in to replace a DC who had gotten conservative and was now running a merely average D, and instead had a defensive sieve he called a scheme...and one none of his players understood. Maybe with more time they would have gotten it.

No one is gonna get Slowik's scheme, cuz it's different every week and most weeks it's atrocious to boot.

I hope our next DC gets more time, but I also hope our next DC is better. Giving more time to Slowik is like asking the pitbull to nicely let go of your nutsack.

Just shoot him in the head and then pry his jaws off your junk, jeez...

~G


Coyer was a brilliant chess player (schemer) and had great schemes thought out for each opponent worked through much to the first have..

After the other team countered usually at half time, he was clueless in countering them..

That was IMHO his major down fall.. He is a LB mentally DC and much to the reason our DL is in the state of disrepair it is today.. IMO he was a yes man to mikey and did not shut hard and loud enough for talent there.. As long as he had his LB I'm pretty convinced he was a happy camper..

For that matter we really have not drafted but 2 good LB's since he came on board Gold and DJ.. Al Wilson was already in place.. they got old or hurt and had no spares on the cupboard when that happened..

[Gamechanger]

if Nolan or Marvin Lewis don't work out, if he's fired, (which he more than likely will be) theres also Rod Marinelli

he sucks as a head coach but his resume in Tampa Bay as a D Coord./D-Line Coach speaks for itself (see Warren Sapp and a "pre washed up" Simeon Rice), he knows the Tampa-2 System (in which DJ Williams and Nate Webster would be animals in) and he can more than likely make the crap of your D-Line into crab-cakes, and its not a stretch for someone like Marinelli to hybrid the 4-3 and 3-4 packages together, but again its up to Shanahan

[MOtorboat]

if Nolan or Marvin Lewis don't work out, if he's fired, (which he more than likely will be) theres also Rod Marinelli

he sucks as a head coach but his resume in Tampa Bay as a D Coord./D-Line Coach speaks for itself (see Warren Sapp and a "pre washed up" Simeon Rice), he knows the Tampa-2 System (in which DJ Williams and Nate Webster would be animals in) and he can more than likely make the crap of your D-Line into crab-cakes, and its not a stretch for someone like Marinelli to hybrid the 4-3 and 3-4 packages together, but again its up to Shanahan

Meh...Tony Dungy and Monte Kiffin are the reasons that defense was/is good.

[Gamechanger]

Meh...Tony Dungy and Monte Kiffin are the reasons that defense was/is good.

can't argue with that, then again, you never know, (reference: Lovie Smith) if given the correct d-coord. who preaches about getting to the QB and stuffing the run, the Bronco's could be just as dangerous, he preached that along with Dungy and Kiffin, Doom could be a top-5 Pass-rushing specialist with Marinelli, then again he could lay an egg, idk, but he's worth the look

[MOtorboat]

can't argue with that, then again, you never know, (reference: Lovie Smith) if given the correct d-coord. who preaches about getting to the QB and stuffing the run, the Bronco's could be just as dangerous, he preached that along with Dungy and Kiffin, Doom could be a top-5 Pass-rushing specialist with Marinelli, then again he could lay an egg, idk, but he's worth the look

The more and more I look around at defenses, I think more and more that good defenses come down to scouting/drafting/signing the right players rather than scheme or coaches.

P.S. With that said, YES, Doom could be a top-5 pass-rushing defensive end IF we had decent/good players at the other three line positions.

[Gamechanger]

The more and more I look around at defenses, I think more and more that good defenses come down to scouting/drafting/signing the right players rather than scheme or coaches.

do you guys have the cap room next year for this? ya'll may have to do an all out Defensive draft, hell, u wanna borrow Bill Polian for a season? :noidea:

[MOtorboat]

do you guys have the cap room next year for this? ya'll may have to do an all out Defensive draft, hell, u wanna borrow Bill Polian for a season? :noidea:

Its probably going to have be done through the draft. I'd prefer it that way. The retreads aren't working. Denver has a knack for attracting the second-level lineman on the market and it never works.

I'm no capologist, so I won't speak to that...

[broncofaninfla]

Add Ted Cotrell to the list of unemployed defensive coordinators. The Bolts just fired him.

[Retired_Member_001]

Add Ted Cotrell to the list of unemployed defensive coordinators. The Bolts just fired him.

You do realize you just mentioned the Bolts DC? :huh:

[dogfish]

ugghhh, no thanks. . . let fat ted stay unemployed!

[G_Money]

Well there goes Ron Rivera. Stupid Chargers, having a good DC waiting in the wings while we can't even get one on staff.

Luckily, the Curse of Norv will defeat all attempts to bail out that sinking ship.

~G

[haroldthebarrel]

Well at least we all agree that as much as we need a new defensive cordinator we need to give him time to make his system work.

I am actually quite optimistic to this since Shanahan has shown to be a humble man.
Remember him talking about us not needing to draft offensive linemen high?
He found out you can't do that on tackles. You are lucky to find a great one no later than the second round.
The same was said about qbs until we got Cutler.

I think he sees that the system is responsible for the plug in and play at rb and other positons, and that he will give a cordinator enough time to do what he does on offense.

[gobroncsnv]

Although a change at DC may well be in order, we're nuts if we think that Marvin Lewis would have been as good without Ray Lewis, McAlister, Adams, Goose, Baxter, McCrary, Woodson...
Same for Kiffin without Sapp, Lynch, Barber, Brooks, Rice, McFarland...
The players you have need to have something in the tank as well. We have YET to try a season with a substantial front four. Who's not getting tired of hearing about the speed of the Broncos LB's, while watching them get plowed by pulling olinemen because we don't have the folks upfront available to at least warrant SOME extra attention?
Coyer's D lost to Indy because he couldn't get to Manning. Lost to Pburgh because we couldn't touch Roth... Again, this is not a defense of Slowik by any stretch, but if we fired previous DC's for not fielding a decent D without having the players they needed (anyone really think that Bates had a line he could work with?) at the most important part of the D, right upfront, then he will be just another castoff DC, and we'll try to cure our problem with more Avon products.
So, for what it's worth, we've tried the wrong thing over and over and over and over and over... (see dictionary for definition of insanity) because in my mind, Robinson didn't have a decent dline either, although his were the best of the last 10 years. We need players at these positions who actually belong in the NFL.
QB's and OC's look really stupid when they have a bad oline... same for DC's when they have line problems. It's too fundamental to overlook, yet we keep trying it. and trying it, and trying it, and ....

[Fan in Exile]

Although a change at DC may well be in order, we're nuts if we think that Marvin Lewis would have been as good without Ray Lewis, McAlister, Adams, Goose, Baxter, McCrary, Woodson...
Same for Kiffin without Sapp, Lynch, Barber, Brooks, Rice, McFarland...
The players you have need to have something in the tank as well. We have YET to try a season with a substantial front four. Who's not getting tired of hearing about the speed of the Broncos LB's, while watching them get plowed by pulling olinemen because we don't have the folks upfront available to at least warrant SOME extra attention?
Coyer's D lost to Indy because he couldn't get to Manning. Lost to Pburgh because we couldn't touch Roth... Again, this is not a defense of Slowik by any stretch, but if we fired previous DC's for not fielding a decent D without having the players they needed (anyone really think that Bates had a line he could work with?) at the most important part of the D, right upfront, then he will be just another castoff DC, and we'll try to cure our problem with more Avon products.
So, for what it's worth, we've tried the wrong thing over and over and over and over and over... (see dictionary for definition of insanity) because in my mind, Robinson didn't have a decent dline either, although his were the best of the last 10 years. We need players at these positions who actually belong in the NFL.
QB's and OC's look really stupid when they have a bad oline... same for DC's when they have line problems. It's too fundamental to overlook, yet we keep trying it. and trying it, and trying it, and ....

That's exactly the reason I want to bring in a new DC. Let's get somebody who can pick and coach the players. Slowick doesn't seem to be able to do that.

[lex]

Although a change at DC may well be in order, we're nuts if we think that Marvin Lewis would have been as good without Ray Lewis, McAlister, Adams, Goose, Baxter, McCrary, Woodson...
Same for Kiffin without Sapp, Lynch, Barber, Brooks, Rice, McFarland...
The players you have need to have something in the tank as well. We have YET to try a season with a substantial front four. Who's not getting tired of hearing about the speed of the Broncos LB's, while watching them get plowed by pulling olinemen because we don't have the folks upfront available to at least warrant SOME extra attention?
Coyer's D lost to Indy because he couldn't get to Manning. Lost to Pburgh because we couldn't touch Roth... Again, this is not a defense of Slowik by any stretch, but if we fired previous DC's for not fielding a decent D without having the players they needed (anyone really think that Bates had a line he could work with?) at the most important part of the D, right upfront, then he will be just another castoff DC, and we'll try to cure our problem with more Avon products.
So, for what it's worth, we've tried the wrong thing over and over and over and over and over... (see dictionary for definition of insanity) because in my mind, Robinson didn't have a decent dline either, although his were the best of the last 10 years. We need players at these positions who actually belong in the NFL.
QB's and OC's look really stupid when they have a bad oline... same for DC's when they have line problems. It's too fundamental to overlook, yet we keep trying it. and trying it, and trying it, and ....

But if Marvin Lewis were to come to Denver and try calling games similarly to what he did in Baltimore, we should at least have some idea what we need on defense and have some idea of how badly we need another player. With Slowik, he took a top 10 defense in Green Bay and turned them into something awful. Then Slowik was replaced and Bates fixed it fairly quickly.

[Gamechanger]

can we give ya'll Ron Meeks for a cookie?

[Davii]

can we give ya'll Ron Meeks for a cookie?

I'll give you a cookie to never mention that again.

[dogfish]

okay, this isn't really relevant to nolan, but at this point it's pretty obvious that we aren't going after him anyways-- if we were it would already have happened, although that doesn't preclude shenanigans from having a change of heart the next time somebody runs for 250 on us. . . . :frusty:


in any case, since we're discussing potential new DCs, i though this was worth posting. . .


Sources say Buccaneers secondary coach Raheem Morris will be one of the hottest candidates for a defensive coordinator position this offseason, and he’ll be free to explore his options — his contract expires at the end of year. Insiders called him a “clone” of Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin, who also served as an assistant on the staff of Bucs defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin.


here's his official bio from the bucs' website. . .


Raheem Morris
Defensive Backs Coach
NFL Experience: 6
Years with Buccaneers: 6

Raheem Morris enters his second season as the Buccaneers defensive backs coach in 2008. Morris is currently in his second stint with Tampa Bay, having also served on the Buccaneers defensive coaching staff from 2002-2005. In between stints in Tampa Bay, he spent 2006 as Kansas State’s defensive coordinator. Morris has quickly risen through the Buccaneers coaching ranks during his time with the team, serving as defensive quality control coach in 2002, defensive assistant in 2003 and assistant defensive backs coach from 2004-2005 before taking over as defensive backs coach in 2007.
During his first stint with the club, Morris worked closely with former Bucs defensive backs coach and current Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin in the development of one of the NFL’s top secondaries.

After Tampa Bay fell to 19th in the NFL in pass defense in 2006, Morris led a resurgence in his return last season as he guided the Buccaneers pass defense to the league’s top ranking en route to the NFC South division title. The Buccaneers secondary helped limit opposing quarterbacks to a 76.2 rating in 2007 to rank eighth in the NFL after ranking 29th in 2006. Under his direction, five different players in the secondary intercepted a pass in 2007 and S Jermaine Phillips had a Pro Bowl-caliber season, leading the team with a career-high four interceptions and ranking tied for third with 120 tackles. S Tanard Jackson made a seamless transition to safety from cornerback and had one of the most impressive rookie campaigns in team history as he became the first rookie on defense to start on opening day for the Buccaneers since 1996. Jackson was also the first Buccaneers rookie on defense since 1996 (Regan Upshaw) to start all 16 games. For the fifth time in his career, and third time under Morris, perennial Pro Bowl CB Ronde Barber recorded a statistic in every defensive category in 2007. After taking over as a full time starter in Week 4, CB Phillip Buchanon ranked second on the team with three interceptions while recording a career-high 63 tackles in his first season with Morris.

In his lone season with Kansas State in 2006, Morris coordinated a defense that displayed improvement in several statistical categories from the previous season, including total defense, scoring defense and pass defense. Morris oversaw a Kansas State defense that included seven players who received conference recognition, including two first-team All-Big 12 honorees and one second-team selection.

During his five seasons in Tampa Bay, the Bucs have finished ranked in the top five in the NFL in total defense every year, including No. 1 rankings in 2002 and 2005. Additionally, the defense finished as the top-ranked pass defense on three occasions (2002, 2004 and 2007) and never ranked lower than sixth with Morris on the staff. Morris’s impact may have been most felt by opposing quarterbacks as five of the Top 10 seasons in club history in lowest opponent quarterback rating have come with Morris in Tampa Bay.

In 2002, his first season as a coach in the NFL, Morris helped guide the Buccaneers top-ranked defense as they captured the franchise’s first world title in Super Bowl XXXVII.

Morris joined Tampa Bay after spending the 2000 and 2001 seasons as defensive backs coach at Hofstra University. He also spent time in the fall of 2001 with the New York Jets serving a defensive minority internship.

Morris began his collegiate coaching career as a graduate assistant coach at Hofstra in 1998, where he was responsible for coaching the offensive scout team, developing scouting reports and handling video breakdown and computer input and analysis. He then landed at Cornell University as defensive backs coach and special teams assistant for the 1999 season.

Morris played collegiately as a safety at Hofstra from 1994-1997, and received his bachelor of science degree in physical education. He hails from Irvington, New Jersey.

MORRIS AT A GLANCE

1994-97…Hofstra, player
1998…Hofstra, Graduate Assistant
1999…Cornell, Defensive Backs Coach/Special Teams Assistant
2000-01…Hofstra, Defensive Backs Coach
2001…New York Jets, Defensive Minority Internship
2002…Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Defensive Quality Control Coach
2003…Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Defensive Assistant
2004-05…Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Assistant Defensive Backs Coach
2006…Kansas State, Defensive Coordinator
2007…Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Defensive Backs Coach


and before anyone says it, the fact that his main experience comes with the cover-2 scheme doesn't necessarily mean that that's what he has to run somewhere else. . . in fact, the bucs themselves have been running less cover-2 this year, getting more aggressive, playing more one-deep safety looks with man coverage and bringing more pressure with blitzes. . . and of course, no team runs their base defense on every snap, so it's not like he's not familiar with other packages and schemes. . .

i have no idea if the organization would be interested in him, but i sure think we could do a lot worse than bringing in somebody from monte kiffin's staff-- the guy is one of the brightest defensive minds of his generation, maybe of the history of the league. . . tampa has almost always had tough defenses since kiffin has been there, no easy feat-- especially when he's replaced almost all the personnel from their glory years other than derrick brooks and ronde barber. . .

on morris's watch, jermaine phillips has developed into a premiere talent at safety, and tanard jackson is showing signs of following a similar path. . . they turned phillip buchanon from a 1st round bust into a quality starter, and aquib talib (a prospect with a LOT of bust potential, IMO) has looked really good so far. . .

in any case, it's a bit removed from the original thread topic, but i didn't think it really deserved a new thread. . . he might be a name to keep an eye on. . . .

[Fan in Exile]

okay, this isn't really relevant to nolan, but at this point it's pretty obvious that we aren't going after him anyways-- if we were it would already have happened, although that doesn't preclude shenanigans from having a change of heart the next time somebody runs for 250 on us. . . . :frusty:


in any case, since we're discussing potential new DCs, i though this was worth posting. . .




here's his official bio from the bucs' website. . .




and before anyone says it, the fact that his main experience comes with the cover-2 scheme doesn't necessarily mean that that's what he has to run somewhere else. . . in fact, the bucs themselves have been running less cover-2 this year, getting more aggressive, playing more one-deep safety looks with man coverage and bringing more pressure with blitzes. . . and of course, no team runs their base defense on every snap, so it's not like he's not familiar with other packages and schemes. . .

i have no idea if the organization would be interested in him, but i sure think we could do a lot worse than bringing in somebody from monte kiffin's staff-- the guy is one of the brightest defensive minds of his generation, maybe of the history of the league. . . tampa has almost always had tough defenses since kiffin has been there, no easy feat-- especially when he's replaced almost all the personnel from their glory years other than derrick brooks and ronde barber. . .

on morris's watch, jermaine phillips has developed into a premiere talent at safety, and tanard jackson is showing signs of following a similar path. . . they turned phillip buchanon from a 1st round bust into a quality starter, and aquib talib (a prospect with a LOT of bust potential, IMO) has looked really good so far. . .

in any case, it's a bit removed from the original thread topic, but i didn't think it really deserved a new thread. . . he might be a name to keep an eye on. . . .

With the holes that we've got at safety and the CBs getting older I would be happy to bring this guy in as long as he brings a D-line coach with him and a scouting department. :D

[lex]

okay, this isn't really relevant to nolan, but at this point it's pretty obvious that we aren't going after him anyways-- if we were it would already have happened, although that doesn't preclude shenanigans from having a change of heart the next time somebody runs for 250 on us. . . . :frusty:


in any case, since we're discussing potential new DCs, i though this was worth posting. . .




here's his official bio from the bucs' website. . .




and before anyone says it, the fact that his main experience comes with the cover-2 scheme doesn't necessarily mean that that's what he has to run somewhere else. . . in fact, the bucs themselves have been running less cover-2 this year, getting more aggressive, playing more one-deep safety looks with man coverage and bringing more pressure with blitzes. . . and of course, no team runs their base defense on every snap, so it's not like he's not familiar with other packages and schemes. . .

i have no idea if the organization would be interested in him, but i sure think we could do a lot worse than bringing in somebody from monte kiffin's staff-- the guy is one of the brightest defensive minds of his generation, maybe of the history of the league. . . tampa has almost always had tough defenses since kiffin has been there, no easy feat-- especially when he's replaced almost all the personnel from their glory years other than derrick brooks and ronde barber. . .

on morris's watch, jermaine phillips has developed into a premiere talent at safety, and tanard jackson is showing signs of following a similar path. . . they turned phillip buchanon from a 1st round bust into a quality starter, and aquib talib (a prospect with a LOT of bust potential, IMO) has looked really good so far. . .

in any case, it's a bit removed from the original thread topic, but i didn't think it really deserved a new thread. . . he might be a name to keep an eye on. . . .

I would prefer someone whose expertise is with coaching LBs or DL. I think they are more apt to understand what works and doesnt work when it comes to blitzing, stunting and such than, say, a DB coach. Im not saying its an absolute but in general, I think we'd be better off with someone whoe coaches the front 7 as a DC. Id also prefer someone from NYG or Phila.

[dogfish]

I would prefer someone whose expertise is with coaching LBs or DL. I think they are more apt to understand what works and doesnt work when it comes to blitzing, stunting and such than, say, a DB coach. Im not saying its an absolute but in general, I think we'd be better off with someone whoe coaches the front 7 as a DC. Id also prefer someone from NYG or Phila.

i'm on record as saying that i'd love to get someone from the new york or philly staff, as they play the style that would be my first choice for us to adopt, and from the perspective of acquiring talent i might tend to agree that a DL or LB coach would be preferable. . . however. . . some damn good coordinators have gotten their starts coaching the secondary-- a quick check shows that both dick lebeau (an all-time great, IMO) and steve spagnuolo from the G-men started as secondary coaches, although spags did coach the LBs for two years in philly before getting the giants job. . . in any case, at this point i'll take pretty much ANY bright young mind from a top quality defensive staff over the garbage we have now. . . .

[Lonestar]

Mikey will never bring another NAME into his fold again on his own volition.. ..

Pat will have to force this issue we all know that..

If a new/any guy does come on board we will need to give him the tools necessary to get the job done.. players, coaches, autonomy from mikey and most importantly a few years to make progress.

for those of you that think Champ is on his last legs he has 3-8 years left on his body.. if we can get a decent training regiment working.. What he might give up in outright speed he makes up for in savvy being in the right place at the right time..

[tomjonesrocks]

Well, it's discouraging that almost 2 weeks have passed and the Broncos have done--nothing. SD fired their DC and the Broncos defense is worse than theirs--like *all time* worse.

Just ridiculous. Do I or don't I want to tune in for the Miami game?

[G_Money]

I would prefer someone whose expertise is with coaching LBs or DL. I think they are more apt to understand what works and doesnt work when it comes to blitzing, stunting and such than, say, a DB coach. Im not saying its an absolute but in general, I think we'd be better off with someone whoe coaches the front 7 as a DC. Id also prefer someone from NYG or Phila.

The Philly DL coach is like 9 million years old isn't he? He's a positional instructor, not a defensive-coordinator in waiting. He gives the guys the right technique and lets Johnson call the plays. The guy from Philly to get is also a secondary coach, Sean McDermott.

Same with Waufle from the G-Men IMO - great DL INSTRUCTOR, but not coordinator material. He gives your guys the right tools - and God knows we need some good teachers on this pathetic defensive staff - but he's not a schemer.

Morris and McDermott are both on my list of young guys to look at - HARD. Morris gets some leeway from Kiffin to call defensive plays or put wrinkles in them at practice. If Kiffin thinks Morris understands his entire scheme well enough to mess with it, then Morris can come call defensive plays for us and teach em to our guys.

~G

[Lonestar]

The Philly DL coach is like 9 million years old isn't he? He's a positional instructor, not a defensive-coordinator in waiting. He gives the guys the right technique and lets Johnson call the plays. The guy from Philly to get is also a secondary coach, Sean McDermott.

Same with Waufle from the G-Men IMO - great DL INSTRUCTOR, but not coordinator material. He gives your guys the right tools - and God knows we need some good teachers on this pathetic defensive staff - but he's not a schemer.

Morris and McDermott are both on my list of young guys to look at - HARD. Morris gets some leeway from Kiffin to call defensive plays or put wrinkles in them at practice. If Kiffin thinks Morris understands his entire scheme well enough to mess with it, then Morris can come call defensive plays for us and teach em to our guys.

~G


for that matter why not bring in LYNCH for a try out he knows more of the defense than the moron they have now..

Mikey called him an on the field coach..

Pat got him a contract this year when mikey thought he was over the hill maybe we need to petition Pat directly..

[G_Money]

My half-assed list from a few pages ago:


I'd still like Ron Rivera (who's hanging out in SD waiting for Norv to get fired so he can get the HC job), Mike Nolan (who is probably drinking away his sorrows right now), Dom Capers (he's with NE now, right? They don't need his help, we do), Jim Schwartz (Titans DC, but we probably can't pry him away from best-friend Fisher without a HC slot to offer), or for young guys I'd take Raheem Morris (DC coach from Tampa who knows Kiffin's blistering style like the back of his hand) or Sean McDermott (Philly DB coach, comes from the Jim-Johnson blitzing D tree that I like so much).

Giant's staff:

LB coach - college coach barely in the pros, positional instructor
DL coach - 30 year DL coach, not a coordinator
DB coach - really young, in his first gig in the pros, haven't heard enough about him (Merritt) to recommend getting him.
OTHER DB coach - this is Giunta, and he was DC for the Rams back in the day when they went to the SB. He's mostly a career positional DB coach though for 20-something years.

Spagnouolo in NY built his staff out of outstanding teachers, but no real coordinator-in-waiting that I see. He WAS the coordinator-in-waiting in Philly.

Speaking of Philly, their coaches:

DL coach - spent 34 years coaching college DL, just got to the pros.
LB coach - new for '08, was a "quality control coach" before that on both offense and defense. Not a coordinator, not yet anyway.
DB coach - McDermott, talked about by Johnson as the next guy on his staff who's destined for a DC job. He's been mostly secondary in his decade with the Eagles, but also did LBs last year. Which makes sense, he played safety in college.

Seriously, off those staffs, McDermott is the only guy who makes sense. And he's been around Johnson a LONG time. If we want a limb from the Johnson/Spagnouolo tree, he's probably the limb to get.

~G

[HolyDiver]

for that matter why not bring in LYNCH for a try out he knows more of the defense than the moron they have now..

Mikey called him an on the field coach..

Pat got him a contract this year when mikey thought he was over the hill maybe we need to petition Pat directly..


At this point, we might as well bring in Lynch. What do we have to lose...Atleast he would help against the run.

[Lonestar]

At this point, we might as well bring in Lynch. What do we have to lose...Atleast he would help against the run.

You misunderstood Bring him in as a coach.. certainly can not be worse thatn the maroons we have now..

He was an on the field coach (per mikey) that ran the DBs telling them where to line up and called the defense for them..

Often advised the LB's where to line up and since he knows just more than our defense..

Kiffins from TPA cover two.
Coyers from DEN never make half time adjustments.
Bates contriol teh LOS and allow the LB and DBs to do their job.
slowicks helter skelter
slowicks 3-4 beyond helter skelter.. not much exprience other than watching in on TV..

[lex]

The Philly DL coach is like 9 million years old isn't he? He's a positional instructor, not a defensive-coordinator in waiting. He gives the guys the right technique and lets Johnson call the plays. The guy from Philly to get is also a secondary coach, Sean McDermott.

Same with Waufle from the G-Men IMO - great DL INSTRUCTOR, but not coordinator material. He gives your guys the right tools - and God knows we need some good teachers on this pathetic defensive staff - but he's not a schemer.

Morris and McDermott are both on my list of young guys to look at - HARD. Morris gets some leeway from Kiffin to call defensive plays or put wrinkles in them at practice. If Kiffin thinks Morris understands his entire scheme well enough to mess with it, then Morris can come call defensive plays for us and teach em to our guys.

~G

Shuey

[G_Money]

Shuey was McDermott's understudy with the LB's last year who is in his first year as a positional coach and not as a special assistant. Why would I want the understudy instead of the real thing?

He was also mostly an offensive "special assistant" and carried Andy Reid's water bottle around. I'm sure the guy's decent but he's just getting started down the track that McDermott's been on the last half-dozen years.

~G

[lex]

Shuey was McDermott's understudy with the LB's last year who is in his first year as a positional coach and not as a special assistant. Why would I want the understudy instead of the real thing?

He was also mostly an offensive "special assistant" and carried Andy Reid's water bottle around. I'm sure the guy's decent but he's just getting started down the track that McDermott's been on the last half-dozen years.

~G

Because a bird in the bush is worth more than the one we have in our hand.

[hamrob]

Here's the qoute of the day:

"He's a field general," Broncos safety Marquand Manuel said. "You have to go out there and play ball and understand he's going to make the correct throws. You've got to cut down on the (after-catch) yards."

Hmm...could we maybe try and knock the ball down or hmm...intercept it. Perhaps we could add that little bit of thought to the way we approach Pennington as well? Let's see, our secondary is about to set the record for highest completion rate against a defense ever (72%). I wonder why?

Just a thought.

[Lonestar]

Here's the qoute of the day:

"He's a field general," Broncos safety Marquand Manuel said. "You have to go out there and play ball and understand he's going to make the correct throws. You've got to cut down on the (after-catch) yards."

Hmm...could we maybe try and knock the ball down or hmm...intercept it. Perhaps we could add that little bit of thought to the way we approach Pennington as well? Let's see, our secondary is about to set the record for highest completion rate against a defense ever (72%). I wonder why?

Just a thought.


seems simple to me also.

But it sounds like a defeatist attitude on the D part or maybe they just know they SUCK..

I tell my daughter all the time if you go into games hoping to win or in some cases knowing you can't beat the other team your gonna lose.. and for the most part they do..

When you have your coach tell the team in practice before the game we are not gonna win we just need to stay close something is wrong with the coach..


Reminds me of mikey saying IF we can get into the playoffs any team can win it all.. Hmmmmm.

[dogfish]

The Philly DL coach is like 9 million years old isn't he? He's a positional instructor, not a defensive-coordinator in waiting. He gives the guys the right technique and lets Johnson call the plays. The guy from Philly to get is also a secondary coach, Sean McDermott.

Same with Waufle from the G-Men IMO - great DL INSTRUCTOR, but not coordinator material. He gives your guys the right tools - and God knows we need some good teachers on this pathetic defensive staff - but he's not a schemer.

Morris and McDermott are both on my list of young guys to look at - HARD. Morris gets some leeway from Kiffin to call defensive plays or put wrinkles in them at practice. If Kiffin thinks Morris understands his entire scheme well enough to mess with it, then Morris can come call defensive plays for us and teach em to our guys.

~G

just saw this quote about mcdermott in PFW and thought i'd post it:



“(Eagles defensive coordinator) Jim Johnson has developed a lot of good lieutenants. Teams looking for a defensive coordinator are going to have to take a close look at his position coaches. Sean McDermott has been the secondary coach and linebackers coach. He comes from the same line as (Ravens head coach John) Harbaugh, (and defensive coordinators) Leslie Frazier, Ron Rivera and Steve Spagnuolo. He’s been in the system for 10-some years and has worked his way up the ranks. He played at William & Mary with (Steelers head coach) Mike Tomlin. He’s not going to fly under the radar much longer. Rivera just got promoted (to defensive coordinator in San Diego). Spags and Frazier are in line for top jobs. The Jim Johnson pipeline is hot.”

[Lonestar]

just saw this quote about mcdermott in PFW and thought i'd post it:


one can only dream.. lets hope this current defense does not turn so far around that it is overlooked what the current moron did to screw it up in the first place..

in OTHER WORDs do not let the moron off the HOOK..

[gobroncsnv]

Didn't want to go back over the whole thread, but what about Marvin Lewis? Can't see him staying in Cincy even though it's not his fault they're the craphole of the NFL. BAD ownership makes it so, like in Phoenix (have they actually turned it AROUND???). Granted, Marvin actually got some players with the Ravens, as does Johnson, and Spagnuolo. What are the odds we'll actually try to get a good DC AS WELL AS some above average players? Dang, I'd settle for average at this point. Some of these younger ones could come around and break out, but I'm dog tired of hearing about projects and potential... We're in dire need of results if we have intentions of getting deep in the playoffs in the next few years.

[Superchop 7]

My other choice (after viewing the superbowls) would be Greg Robinson.

He is about to get booted from Syracuse (I think it's Syracuse) as head coach.

He isn't a head coach.

Looking back, I liked his schemes, very sharp guy, mixed it up alot, kept the pressure on and kept them guessing.

[BroncoJoe]

Just wait for Marvin Lewis. He'll be available after this season.

[gobroncsnv]

My other choice (after viewing the superbowls) would be Greg Robinson.

He is about to get booted from Syracuse (I think it's Syracuse) as head coach.

He isn't a head coach.

Looking back, I liked his schemes, very sharp guy, mixed it up alot, kept the pressure on and kept them guessing.

Robinson wasn't bad when he had players. Our defense was decent when we had Atwater, Pryce (early years), Smith, Traylor, Williams, Mobley, etc, etc... That was the last time we had a pretty solid defense for ALL aspects of the game. Not a great defense, but solid, and opportunistic.

[56crash]

one can only dream.. lets hope this current defense does not turn so far around that it is overlooked what the current moron did to screw it up in the first place..

in OTHER WORDs do not let the moron off the HOOK..moron wow what does that make us?

the guy is an engineer ?!??!?

you could say his scheme is way to hard for our team to grasp..

[56crash]

Robinson wasn't bad when he had players. Our defense was decent when we had Atwater, Pryce (early years), Smith, Traylor, Williams, Mobley, etc, etc... That was the last time we had a pretty solid defense for ALL aspects of the game. Not a great defense, but solid, and opportunistic.

It was not players it is that all the players need about 8 weeks of play to really grasp his basic D . so for 8 weeks every year you have at least one player lost !

[56crash]

all this talk about other teams coaches I bet there is someone already on staff that has blitz packages that would be more to the liking of the players we have . scheme is our problem . but we need a MLB'er most then FS then SS in that order .

With a stud MLB we would make a lot of problem disappear .

[Lonestar]

Didn't want to go back over the whole thread, but what about Marvin Lewis? Can't see him staying in Cincy even though it's not his fault they're the craphole of the NFL. BAD ownership makes it so, like in Phoenix (have they actually turned it AROUND???). Granted, Marvin actually got some players with the Ravens, as does Johnson, and Spagnuolo. What are the odds we'll actually try to get a good DC AS WELL AS some above average players? Dang, I'd settle for average at this point. Some of these younger ones could come around and break out, but I'm dog tired of hearing about projects and potential... We're in dire need of results if we have intentions of getting deep in the playoffs in the next few years.

Many times players become great one because of the coaching.. We all know that bad coaching can ruin them..

[Lonestar]

moron wow what does that make us?

the guy is an engineer ?!??!?

you could say his scheme is way to hard for our team to grasp..


Then that would make him THE moron would it not..

the whole idea is to teach what they can do.. I'm sure you have heard the old adage "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link"..

therefore you teach and scheme to the worst player and then improve it as they get better..

If no one gets his theories what do we do?..

replace One ass clown or 22 of them..

[Lonestar]

all this talk about other teams coaches I bet there is someone already on staff that has blitz packages that would be more to the liking of the players we have . scheme is our problem . but we need a MLB'er most then FS then SS in that order .

With a stud MLB we would make a lot of problem disappear .

so what do we do until we can get a "Stud" MLB forfeit the games?

Or perhaps make the plays

easier to comprehend until we do..

[Simple Jaded]

Mike Waufle.......

[gobroncsnv]

Many times players become great one because of the coaching.. We all know that bad coaching can ruin them..

True enough, a great coach brings out the best in players... but many of the positions we have, I'm not sure their best is good enough... The best of coaches have to have SOMETHING to work with. I don't really think you're trying to say this, but if your point were to be stretched just a bit, are we just one great coach away from the Super Bowl, or even a top 10 D? Should we not draft next year? Again, I know you're not saying that, but I'm the kind of guy that is in the camp that would rather have great players AND decent coaching. You can put people in position to make the tackle, but is it the coach's fault if they MISS the tackle? If you know you have a gap control, but you over-run the play, and a cutback lane opens up like a gate? Because a LOT of that has happened to us this year, and that is stuff that they teach in Pop Warner... I don't think Slow is the best DC to come down the pike, but I can't hold him accountable for that stuff. Someone with Ekuban's experience should KNOW that he's not supposed to give up the edge and let a reverse rumble past him for 20 yards. A good safety doesn't get knocked 4 yards backwards trying to make a tackle. Are we just a coach away from a great pass rush? Sorry, part of our problem IS coaching, but IMO, not more than half of it.

[Lonestar]

True enough, a great coach brings out the best in players... but many of the positions we have, I'm not sure their best is good enough... The best of coaches have to have SOMETHING to work with. I don't really think you're trying to say this, but if your point were to be stretched just a bit, are we just one great coach away from the Super Bowl, or even a top 10 D? Should we not draft next year? Again, I know you're not saying that, but I'm the kind of guy that is in the camp that would rather have great players AND decent coaching. You can put people in position to make the tackle, but is it the coach's fault if they MISS the tackle?

If you know you have a gap control, but you over-run the play, and a cutback lane opens up like a gate? Because a LOT of that has happened to us this year, and that is stuff that they teach in Pop Warner...

I don't think Slow is the best DC to come down the pike, but I can't hold him accountable for that stuff. Someone with Ekuban's experience should KNOW that he's not supposed to give up the edge and let a reverse rumble past him for 20 yards. A good safety doesn't get knocked 4 yards backwards trying to make a tackle. Are we just a coach away from a great pass rush? Sorry, part of our problem IS coaching, but IMO, not more than half of it.


Pretty good post and your correct we do not have superior talent all over the DL in particular and some of the nets do indeed make mistakes..

But are they really being corrected in film study are they being reminded of old techniques let alone NEW ones..

Something is not right on D and I do not think it is all players.. IMO if we had superior coaching we would be better especially up front and therefore better all over the field..

Just food for thought many thought that NYG would be toast this year after losing one HOF DE and another all pro off their DL .. But what happened a couple of other second day draft choices have been taught HOW to play and their DL is still one of the best in the NFL..

We have 4-5 day one choices on the DL and 2-3 of them are #1 guys.. Why pray tell do we suck so bad.. were they lousy choices or does the scheme and coaching suck.. I think if we had the Giants DL coaches we would be a hell of alot better than we are with existing players..

[gobroncsnv]

Wellyou'rerightthatpostdidruntogetherquiteabit... my bad...

I truly do wish I knew why we can't get a decent dline. There are plenty of great players drafted AFTER some of the choices we've made who are absolute ALL-Stars. Is it that we can't Dline coach our way out of a paper bag? Could be, could be... Maybe I oversimplify when I think of pass rush as just go get the qb's uniform dirty, using strength, speed, and instinct, and an occasional stunt.

(insert gap here... :>) )

But when you look at Baltimore over the last 6-7 years, the Giants the past few, and the other homes of a traditionally great D (Panthers...), they are getting some GREAT players, year in, year out. Maybe it is just coaching... But Marvin Lewis has moved on, and is his defense all that great? Nobody could say that. Nolan is touted by some as the go-to guy for our next DC... How is SF's D?

Is this a less-filling, tastes great thing? Whatever, but our best pass rush was about 10 years ago, and it's been up and down, mostly down, since. I really did think that we should have given Coyer a chance with a decent line... or was he just a position coach away from being the best we've had?

This is driving everyone nuts on this board, as to why we can't solve this one. We've gotten so much right on the o-side, even, gasp, through recent drafts. To be fair, Thomas' name is starting to get called more, and Moss seems to be expanding his repertoire... Dooms just seems better at the situational thing, and Engleberger is his mirror-image... one can only pass-rush, the other can only play rush d. Maybe they could trade some DNA? Maybe the solution is not all that obvious, but the problem DARN sure is.

[Lonestar]

Wellyou'rerightthatpostdidruntogetherquiteabit... my bad...

I truly do wish I knew why we can't get a decent dline. There are plenty of great players drafted AFTER some of the choices we've made who are absolute ALL-Stars. Is it that we can't Dline coach our way out of a paper bag? Could be, could be... Maybe I oversimplify when I think of pass rush as just go get the qb's uniform dirty, using strength, speed, and instinct, and an occasional stunt.

(insert gap here... :>) )

But when you look at Baltimore over the last 6-7 years, the Giants the past few, and the other homes of a traditionally great D (Panthers...), they are getting some GREAT players, year in, year out. Maybe it is just coaching... But Marvin Lewis has moved on, and is his defense all that great? Nobody could say that. Nolan is touted by some as the go-to guy for our next DC... How is SF's D?

Is this a less-filling, tastes great thing? Whatever, but our best pass rush was about 10 years ago, and it's been up and down, mostly down, since. I really did think that we should have given Coyer a chance with a decent line... or was he just a position coach away from being the best we've had?

This is driving everyone nuts on this board, as to why we can't solve this one. We've gotten so much right on the o-side, even, gasp, through recent drafts. To be fair, Thomas' name is starting to get called more, and Moss seems to be expanding his repertoire... Dooms just seems better at the situational thing, and Engleberger is his mirror-image... one can only pass-rush, the other can only play rush d. Maybe they could trade some DNA? Maybe the solution is not all that obvious, but the problem DARN sure is.



remember that as HC mikey sets the tone on what we are going to do..

Mikey has a woody for fast agile LB's period

all defenses we have had since he got here have been LB based with an OK DL and most of the sacks we have gotten have been because of the blitzing schemes we have used even if it was DE or DT that got them is was set up by the Biltz...

We have never had a dominant DL ever well decades ago it was different but since macspeedie on we have tended to be LB dependent..

That said great coaching will not only make the existing players better it will bring in better players via trades, fa or draft because they know what the hell they are looking for..

remember when the browncos came so did their DL coach who I believe is still here along with the skell that was here before he got here.

Upgrade the DL coach and everything else tends to fall in place..

But then the top guys in coaching want nothing to do with mikey because it is his way or the highway.. so until he is relieved of HC/GM duties we are doomed to mediocre coaching across the board..

About the only first rate sub coach we have is the RB coach Turner all the other IMO are yes men..

[gobroncsnv]

Upgrade the DL coach and everything else tends to fall in place..

But then the top guys in coaching want nothing to do with mikey because it is his way or the highway.. so until he is relieved of HC/GM duties we are doomed to mediocre coaching across the board..



As far as just a coach away, who knows? Would Kearney have come here?

I know you have views about Shanny, but I'm not sure that we see all of the moves that he's TRIED to make to get other DC's in here... Just the ones we've gotten who haven't worked out. I see him as someone who would take the absolute best he can get... he's smart enough to not let ego get in the way of success, because if a position coach or coordinator has success here, then that contributes to Mike's. I'm pretty sure you would disagree, but that is my take.

[Superchop 7]

Just a reminder, Shanny and Nolan would have tore the Bengals up today.

I would like to thank Blah Blah Blah for being the first to mention his name last year.

[Lonestar]

Just a reminder, Shanny and Nolan would have tore the Bengals up today.

I would like to thank Blah Blah Blah for being the first to mention his name last year.



and do you really believe mike would have hired him and given him the authority to start from scratch on :defense:





yeah right..ahahahahahahahahahhaahahaha

[Slick]

Just a reminder, Shanny and Nolan would have tore the Bengals up today.

I would like to thank Blah Blah Blah for being the first to mention his name last year.

Good call on Nolan, chop. He did a lot with a little today.

[topscribe]

I'll overlook the vanity, Chop. :D

Nolan not only did a fine job a DC today, but he also has done a great job in
bringing in the talent, in which I believe he had a heavy hand. I was ecstatic
when Nolan was hired, and he hasn't disappointed me . . .

-----

[gobroncsnv]

Well, we DID see Champ in a lot of press coverage... He's pretty good at that, too. I have to believe that he's more effective with that now that it appears that we have pass pressure. And we saw how it DIDN't work when we didn't try it at the end of the game. Amazing how everybody knows the REAL meaning of Prevent Defense. Do what has worked all game long, don't change to a lame horse in the middle of the stream.

[EMB6903]

I also liked how Nolan would have Dawkins at the LOS jamming Chad Ocho Cinco during zone coverages.... Its amazing how much of a difference it makes when you have a good scheme and defensive coordinator.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Great defense throughout the entire game. The last drive by the Bengals was hard to watch considering how solid we looked basically throughout the whole game. One bright spot that really shinned was Nolan. I know I'm preaching to the choir in this thread, but to my surprise I'm pretty happy about the game. Yeah, I know how lucky this franchise is to pull out a game like we just did, how hard it was to watch Mr. Noodle try and conduct a talented offense like we have, and fail, but... To have a defense perform like the way they did, generate turnovers, and get some sacks... Well, it's like... watching a game back in 2006. I won't go out and say we"ll win the Superbowl or anything, but, maybe there will be a nice surprise this year after all....

[SmilinAssasSin27]

He did a great job...til the prevent.

[TXBRONC]

He did a great job...til the prevent.

I think they should kept bringing the heat.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

i concur.

[Kaylore]

Mad props. I personally think Slowick is one of the worst coaches in football, and said as much last year, but kudos for calling Nolan many moons ago.:beer:

[TXBRONC]

Just so we don't forget, Denver is already a plus 2 in turnovers.

[Northman]

I think they should kept bringing the heat.

Same here. I never understood the philosphy to change what has been working for you. At least if you going to lose, do it while your bringing pressure and trying to win the game. As one commentator always says "The prevent prevents nothing".

[topscribe]

Same here. I never understood the philosphy to change what has been working for you. At least if you going to lose, do it while your bringing pressure and trying to win the game. As one commentator always says "The prevent prevents nothing".

I just would think they would place more confidence in a terrific secondary
and do up front what brought them success all the rest of the game. So they
wanted to prevent a TD. So what happened? The other team got a TD.

I have seen more than once where a "prevent" has "prevented" us from winning . . .

-----

[frauschieze]

Prevent and defense are dirty words when used together and ought to be filtered. Filthy language.

[nbenallo33]

williams should have had an INT too

[TXBRONC]

Same here. I never understood the philosphy to change what has been working for you. At least if you going to lose, do it while your bringing pressure and trying to win the game. As one commentator always says "The prevent prevents nothing".

While Palmer did beat the blitz early in that drive I think if they had kept bringing pressure they would have eventually stop the Bengals offense. Nevertheless the defense played very well and I'm very happy about that.

[Northman]

While Palmer did beat the blitz early in that drive I think if they had kept bringing pressure they would have eventually stop the Bengals offense. Nevertheless the defense played very well and I'm very happy about that.

Exactly. Hence why i say if your going to lose at least go down trying and not just giving up or playing "safe".

[gobroncsnv]

Especially since the "Prevent" lets the other team score while running time off the clock. A double-whammy... Hope they learned something today. Liked the D up til that time.

Stokes bailed out Nolan's end-game strategy. Nolan's first 3.85's of the game kept us close enough to allow the win.

[TXBRONC]

Especially since the "Prevent" lets the other team score while running time off the clock. A double-whammy... Hope they learned something today. Liked the D up til that time.

Stokes bailed out Nolan's end-game strategy. Nolan's first 3.85's of the game kept us close enough to allow the win.

Maybe in certain situation I think a case could be made for using a prevent defense but this just is one of them the way I see it. If we had had something like a 14 point lead then it makes sense to go the prevent.

[BCJ]

Mad props. I personally think Slowick is one of the worst coaches in football, and said as much last year, but kudos for calling Nolan many moons ago.:beer:

Khan (Kaylore) put an amzing stat on the suckness of Slowick before we got him (his stats from GB). Khan, even though we dumped him, those stats from GB plus the ones from Denver would be interesting read here. Once i saw it, I was disgusted Mike would bring him in.

[Chidoze]

I love the addition of Nolan to the Broncos, thought he did as well as he could with what he had today.

But, I love love love the a acquisition of Brian Dawkins. He is THE leader on D. You can see it, the intensity, the way he plays. It's just a privilege to have and watch Brian Dawkins! :salute:

[DenBronx]

Why didnt we think of this 5 years ago?

[Chidoze]

Why didnt we think of this 5 years ago?
Mike Shanahan. :cool:

[DenBronx]

Capers transition in Green Bay looks to be going very very good too. I was pulling for Capers or Nolan for our DC. Looks like both teams made a good choice.

[dogfish]

Capers transition in Green Bay looks to be going very very good too. I was pulling for Capers or Nolan for our DC. Looks like both teams made a good choice.

green bay's defense looked sick tonight-- they were dominating the line of scrimmage and swarming to the ball. . . the had cutler completely rattled in the first half, and they shut down one of the league's better backs. . .

of course, capers had a LOT more to work with than what nolan inherited here-- including some talented DLs who are much better suited to the 34 front than anybody we had (or have, for that matter). . . cullen jenkins is a monster, their D went in the crapper last year when he got hurt. . . and pickett is an underrated run stopper. . . jolly also looks like he's going to fit well in the 3-4-- he's a guy that i wanted us to draft, a low round pick who clearly had a lot of developmental potential. . . i'm not sure how well kampman is going to transition to OLB, but the rest of their 'backer corps looks pretty comfortable. . . . i expect them to win the north this year, short of a superhuman effort by adrian peterson. . .

[DenBronx]

green bay's defense looked sick tonight-- they were dominating the line of scrimmage and swarming to the ball. . . the had cutler completely rattled in the first half, and they shut down one of the league's better backs. . .

of course, capers had a LOT more to work with than what nolan inherited here-- including some talented DLs who are much better suited to the 34 front than anybody we had (or have, for that matter). . . cullen jenkins is a monster, their D went in the crapper last year when he got hurt. . . and pickett is an underrated run stopper. . . jolly also looks like he's going to fit well in the 3-4-- he's a guy that i wanted us to draft, a low round pick who clearly had a lot of developmental potential. . . i'm not sure how well kampman is going to transition to OLB, but the rest of their 'backer corps looks pretty comfortable. . . . i expect them to win the north this year, short of a superhuman effort by adrian peterson. . .

those linebackers are insane. clay matthews is going to be a monster playing next to hawk. the secondary...what else can you say but wow! capers did a great job putting the pieces of the puzzle together. i wanted to draft green bay in several fantasy leagues but passed. i thought it was just preseason making them look good but against chitown and forte???

heres to hoping nolan continues the great work! :beer:

[shank]

getting nolan was the biggest upgrade of the offseason to the denver broncos.

[Slick]

Gotta give credit where credit is due. Good call. He's called two great games so far, and its not like he's working with a group of All Pro's here. What a refreshing change. i actually enjoy watching this defense.

[Davii]

I've noticed I say the exact same thing when the D is on the field so far this year. The only difference is what I emphasize...

Last year...

Come on D!!!

This year....

Come on D!!!!!