PDA

View Full Version : Kiper is impressed with Tebow



Bullgator
04-29-2011, 11:43 PM
(record skips and scratches) WHAT?!

fun lil exchange between Gruden and Kiper...

and by the way listen to what gruden says about the new breed of QB at the end... Lonestar, KC, Carol thats for you guys going back to an earlier conversation we had about the evolution of the QB position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa-pb7Wriak&feature=player_embedded

nevcraw
04-30-2011, 12:00 AM
love gruden... kiper is a wanker with bad hair and trying to save face..

Bullgator
04-30-2011, 12:07 AM
love gruden... kiper is a wanker with bad hair and trying to save face..

I dont care what he says now... he staked his rep on TT being a bust, theres no going back. dumbass painted himself in a corner with all the shit he talked. Him and about 50 other "analyists". It was stupid to bet against Tebow.. even if you dont think he will make it its better to keep that to yourself and wait and see... not garauntee he will be a bust and gamble your rep as a pro analyst. How these people make a living doing this ill never know.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
04-30-2011, 12:16 AM
I dont care what he says now... he staked his rep on TT being a bust, theres no going back. dumbass painted himself in a corner with all the shit he talked. Him and about 50 other "analyists". It was stupid to bet against Tebow.. even if you dont think he will make it its better to keep that to yourself and wait and see... not garauntee he will be a bust and gamble your rep as a pro analyst. How these people make a living doing this ill never know.

While I'm a fan of Tebow and the potential I think he has, I believe we are still waiting for him to prove himself as a passer. I'm overly joyed with him finishing second in rushing yards during his short tenure at qb, but there is still no guarantee that he won't be a bust in what everyone is now referring to as a passing league.

Also, I've never really cared for anything these draft analysts have had to say. It's easy to sit back and criticize a FO on the decisions they make, but its different when you're actually in the driver seat. Hence why they are analysts and not GMs.

Lonestar
04-30-2011, 12:18 AM
(record skips and scratches) WHAT?!

fun lil exchange between Gruden and Kiper...

and by the way listen to what gruden says about the new breed of QB at the end... Lonestar, KC, Carol thats for you guys going back to an earlier conversation we had about the evolution of the QB position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa-pb7Wriak&feature=player_embedded

I have never said that Tebow is not a great kid or player. But have said that if he tries to run like he did ion college the Defense is going to kill him..He is a big kid and can pass out the punishment but every hit he takes or gives just shortens his career.

Just as the hits he took in college did him no favors.

I know that some athletes are great but do not completely learn the game because they rely on being an athlete.

Best example I can use it my daughter was a great Basketball low post player in HS, took down rebounds and scored inside the paint almost at will. But was totally over looked as a college player because at 5'9" she could not compete against the "big" girls although was a state HS high jump champ. great leaping ability.

Her down fall was not learning how to handle the ball down the floor. Where she played under the basket she had no real need to dribble the ball.

Lots of HS volley ball players that are tall (5'9" plus) do not learn or play all the way around and when it is time for college ball they are over looked by many of the big schools because all they know is okaying the net and are not big enough at 5'11" to 6'1" to compete with the girls that are 6'2"-6'6"..

They could play back row but never learned it cause their coaches in HS or club did not teach it to them..

Same with Tebow he did not learn the total game because his coaches let him run with the ball when things got hot.

He has a lot to learn and will get killed if he tries to run against the big boys..

Bullgator
04-30-2011, 12:41 AM
I have never said that Tebow is not a great kid or player. But have said that if he tries to run like he did ion college the Defense is going to kill him..He is a big kid and can pass out the punishment but every hit he takes or gives just shortens his career.

Just as the hits he took in college did him no favors.

I know that some athletes are great but do not completely learn the game because they rely on being an athlete.

Best example I can use it my daughter was a great Basketball low post player in HS, took down rebounds and scored inside the paint almost at will. But was totally over looked as a college player because at 5'9" she could not compete against the "big" girls although was a state HS high jump champ. great leaping ability.

Her down fall was not learning how to handle the ball down the floor. Where she played under the basket she had no real need to dribble the ball.

Lots of HS volley ball players that are tall (5'9" plus) do not learn or play all the way around and when it is time for college ball they are over looked by many of the big schools because all they know is okaying the net and are not big enough at 5'11" to 6'1" to compete with the girls that are 6'2"-6'6"..

They could play back row but never learned it cause their coaches in HS or club did not teach it to them..

Same with Tebow he did not learn the total game because his coaches let him run with the ball when things got hot.

He has a lot to learn and will get killed if he tries to run against the big boys..

I could not disagree with you more Lone... we have had this conversation before and my sentiment was that TT would use his running ability only when he had to make a play. Like we saw in his three starts last year. If TT is used as a pure pocket passer then he is already a bust. Its the duel threat+the bult for impact duribilty that makes him a special player. He will move the ball at will, you will see.

But this notion that just because he is labeled a QB that makes him fragile is crazy. Ill say it again, Tim Tebow is BUILT for impact, incidently he is a QB as well. He is the new breed of QB that can hold initiative on running or passing until late in the play when the D breaks down and actually has the duribility to play that style. This hybrid QB/RB will revolutionize the NFL and dont think for a second that thats not why Cam Newton and Jake Locker got picked where they did. Mark my words Lone.

zbeg
04-30-2011, 02:23 AM
I could not disagree with you more Lone... we have had this conversation before and my sentiment was that TT would use his running ability only when he had to make a play. Like we saw in his three starts last year. If TT is used as a pure pocket passer then he is already a bust. Its the duel threat+the bult for impact duribilty that makes him a special player. He will move the ball at will, you will see.


Pocket passer first, then run second. It has to be in that order - nobody's ever had any sort of long-term success the other way around. Michael Vick's breakout year? As a pocket passer who can also run, not a guy who runs but sometimes accidentally doesn't and throws from the pocket.

Steve Young? One of the best classic dropback passers ever who looked to throw first, but could take off when he needed to, and by "when he needed to" I mean he ran for 4000 yards.

Tim Tebow has to learn how to throw FIRST, then run SECOND. Right now it's the other way around, and that has never been a formula for success in the NFL. Even Michael Vick, who was an utterly ridiculous athlete coming out of college, had to learn that before he could become truly elite.

KCL
04-30-2011, 08:20 AM
(record skips and scratches) WHAT?!

fun lil exchange between Gruden and Kiper...

and by the way listen to what gruden says about the new breed of QB at the end... Lonestar, KC, Carol thats for you guys going back to an earlier conversation we had about the evolution of the QB position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa-pb7Wriak&feature=player_embedded

Meh...I still stand by my opinion same as you...:coffee:

MacGruder
04-30-2011, 10:45 AM
While I'm a fan of Tebow and the potential I think he has, I believe we are still waiting for him to prove himself as a passer.

No offense.. but there is really no reason to say Tebow isn't a good passer.. if anyone actually WATCHED Tebow play and wasn't living in the past in their mind they would KNOW how good a passer he is.

Tebow carried the running game AND the passing game at Florida. People who are living in the past in the era of Wuerful and couch etc are convinced Tebow is juts another of these guys being carried by a great team.

It'as a NEW era. We have never seen the kind of p[arity in college football and especially the SEC there is right now.

Ironically though Cam is an example of a guy who does fit the mold of a Wuerful or Couch. He WAS carried by his team.. Cam didn't prove himself over a full college career like Tebow did though.. which is why Cam is so overrated and uis going to be such a monumental bust. Everything people said about Tebow is actually true of Cam.

rcsodak
04-30-2011, 11:00 AM
I have never said that Tebow is not a great kid or player. But have said that if he tries to run like he did ion college the Defense is going to kill him..He is a big kid and can pass out the punishment but every hit he takes or gives just shortens his career.

Just as the hits he took in college did him no favors.

I know that some athletes are great but do not completely learn the game because they rely on being an athlete.

Best example I can use it my daughter was a great Basketball low post player in HS, took down rebounds and scored inside the paint almost at will. But was totally over looked as a college player because at 5'9" she could not compete against the "big" girls although was a state HS high jump champ. great leaping ability.

Her down fall was not learning how to handle the ball down the floor. Where she played under the basket she had no real need to dribble the ball.

Lots of HS volley ball players that are tall (5'9" plus) do not learn or play all the way around and when it is time for college ball they are over looked by many of the big schools because all they know is okaying the net and are not big enough at 5'11" to 6'1" to compete with the girls that are 6'2"-6'6"..

They could play back row but never learned it cause their coaches in HS or club did not teach it to them..

Same with Tebow he did not learn the total game because his coaches let him run with the ball when things got hot.

He has a lot to learn and will get killed if he tries to run against the big boys..
Plus, with the new concussion rules, if he even LOOKS stunned, he's on the sidelines. He better learn to AVOID contact, and look for the sidelines.

Northman
04-30-2011, 11:04 AM
Unfortuantely, the "new breed" of QB has not won anything meaningful. At the end of the day its still the pocket passers who scramble only when they need too who are winning championships. If Tebow wants to be a champion he will need to learn how to pass first and not pretend he is a RB. He had some nice starts in his first 3 games but he will need to continue to improve before i label him a success. Three games is not a solid enough sample.

rcsodak
04-30-2011, 11:05 AM
No offense.. but there is really no reason to say Tebow isn't a good passer.. if anyone actually WATCHED Tebow play and wasn't living in the past in their mind they would KNOW how good a passer he is.

Tebow carried the running game AND the passing game at Florida. People who are living in the past in the era of Wuerful and couch etc are convinced Tebow is juts another of these guys being carried by a great team.

It'as a NEW era. We have never seen the kind of p[arity in college football and especially the SEC there is right now.

Ironically though Cam is an example of a guy who does fit the mold of a Wuerful or Couch. He WAS carried by his team.. Cam didn't prove himself over a full college career like Tebow did though.. which is why Cam is so overrated and uis going to be such a monumental bust. Everything people said about Tebow is actually true of Cam.

Finishing his year at 50% doesn't show he'a "good passer".

Agent of Orange
04-30-2011, 11:15 AM
Unfortuantely, the "new breed" of QB has not won anything meaningful. At the end of the day its still the pocket passers who scramble only when they need too who are winning championships. If Tebow wants to be a champion he will need to learn how to pass first and not pretend he is a RB. He had some nice starts in his first 3 games but he will need to continue to improve before i label him a success. Three games is not a solid enough sample.

Tebow has to be willing to use his mobility enough to help him as a passer. When the underneath coverage has to keep an eye on Tebow, guys become more open. He needs to use that and hopefully over time, the undeneath respects his passing so much that they leave openings to run.

Donovan McNabb kind of had this same thing going on and he came really close to winning it all or making it to the SB a couple of times.

Whats amazing though is thinking back to how awesome Marino was as a passer since he was no running threat but it didnt matter.

Ravage!!!
04-30-2011, 11:23 AM
I dont care what he says now... he staked his rep on TT being a bust, theres no going back. dumbass painted himself in a corner with all the shit he talked. Him and about 50 other "analyists". It was stupid to bet against Tebow.. even if you dont think he will make it its better to keep that to yourself and wait and see... not garauntee he will be a bust and gamble your rep as a pro analyst. How these people make a living doing this ill never know.

No. "waiting and seeing"... is what lame people do that don't have the balls to come out and make a stand. THATs how you make a living. "Waiting and seeing".. will get you nowhere other than internet message boards.

I'm betting if you ask him today, he stands by his evaluation of Tebow's potential as a starting NFL QB... and so would eery other person making their predictions.

Bullgator
04-30-2011, 01:31 PM
Pocket passer first, then run second. It has to be in that order - nobody's ever had any sort of long-term success the other way around. Michael Vick's breakout year? As a pocket passer who can also run, not a guy who runs but sometimes accidentally doesn't and throws from the pocket.

Steve Young? One of the best classic dropback passers ever who looked to throw first, but could take off when he needed to, and by "when he needed to" I mean he ran for 4000 yards.

Tim Tebow has to learn how to throw FIRST, then run SECOND. Right now it's the other way around, and that has never been a formula for success in the NFL. Even Michael Vick, who was an utterly ridiculous athlete coming out of college, had to learn that before he could become truly elite.

Um.... THATS WHAT HE DOES... who says he has to run first? thats dumb.

atwater27
04-30-2011, 01:35 PM
Kiper is not impressed with Tebow. Nobody is impressed by Kiper either. what a dumb thread.

Bullgator
04-30-2011, 01:44 PM
Unfortuantely, the "new breed" of QB has not won anything meaningful. At the end of the day its still the pocket passers who scramble only when they need too who are winning championships. If Tebow wants to be a champion he will need to learn how to pass first and not pretend he is a RB. He had some nice starts in his first 3 games but he will need to continue to improve before i label him a success. Three games is not a solid enough sample.

again, imo you guys are just trying to sound smart... wtf are you talking about not run first? when has TT run first? thats retarded hes a QB first then a RB not the other way around...Ill say it again... he will get the first down or TD with his legs WHEN HE HAS TO. like hes done in fornt of your very eyes. and IMO hes better duel threat than Vick for the simple fact that when he gets hit he wont fold like a house of cards.

its you guys that are convinced he cant throw... i saw the kid throw as many TDs as sam bradford (88)oh yea and i think he rushed for 57 Tds on top of that... you guys need to stay away from the koolaid with all the he needs to learn how to throw crap... the only thing he needs to learn is timing with his plyers and that comes with snaps. and the play book. hes no manning in the arm dept, but he doesnt have to be cuz manning is no tebow in the legs dept.

just keep an open mind... cuz the last thing you want to do is give me props for chewing your ears off for 6 months. wait till the kid starts 16 games before you act like you anything about how he plays

Broncolingus
04-30-2011, 01:45 PM
Kiper is impressed with Tebow...

http://www.uglyfours.com/storage/KIPER%20LIAR.png?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=130156 4056462

Northman
04-30-2011, 01:46 PM
again, imo you guys are just trying to sound smart... wtf are you talking about not run first? when has TT run first? thats retarded hes a QB first then a RB not the other way around...Ill say it again... he will get the first down or TD with his legs WHEN HE HAS TO. like hes done in fornt of your very eyes. and IMO hes better duel threat than Vick for the simple fact that when he gets hit he wont fold like a house of cards.

its you guys that are convinced he cant throw... i saw the kid throw as many TDs as sam bradford (88)oh yea and i think he rushed for 57 Tds on top of that... you guys need to stay away from the koolaid with all the he needs to learn how to throw crap... the only thing he needs to learn is timing with his plyers and that comes with snaps. and the play book. hes no manning in the arm dept, but he doesnt have to be cuz manning is no tebow in the legs dept.

just keep an open mind... cuz the last thing you want to do is give me props for chewing your ears off for 6 months. wait till the kid starts 16 games before you act like you anything about how he plays


Who doesnt have an open mind? I think it is YOU who are a bit bias and delusional. Tebow has a lot to offer but is not there yet. What part of that do you not comprehend? Frankly, you only show with you Tebow propraganda and frankly your getting tiresome. Go jerkoff on your own board mate as this is about a team, not just one player.

Bullgator
04-30-2011, 01:49 PM
Finishing his year at 50% doesn't show he'a "good passer".

Give me a break, even kiper said he did better than expected with a shitty team, no snaps, no run game AND NO HEAD COACH. 50% is GOOD under those conditions. you act like hes like your boy orton who has been in the league for 30 years. 50%first three games as a rook with that team and no coach= good.

he will be 60% at least this year, bet your trailer on it homey

Slick
04-30-2011, 01:51 PM
Why do you get so defensive of anything critical said about Tebow, bullgator?

We all want him to succeed, some have their doubts.

It's like you're his personal defense attorney.

Northman
04-30-2011, 01:52 PM
Why do you get so defensive of anything critical said about Tebow, bullgator?

We all want him to succeed, some have their doubts.

It's like your his personal defense attorney.

Its pretty obvious why. Like i said, very tiresome.

Bullgator
04-30-2011, 01:56 PM
Who doesnt have an open mind? I think it is YOU who are a bit bias and delusional. Tebow has a lot to offer but is not there yet. What part of that do you not comprehend? Frankly, you only show with you Tebow propraganda and frankly your getting tiresome. Go jerkoff on your own board mate as this is about a team, not just one player.

yes massa!

Oh what a pickle your in north... if the kids a ledgend then youll have to suffer me! if he sucks then your team does too... what to do!

lighten up north, dont be so judgmental and whiney... i say open up your mind you tell me to jerk off lol. wipe away the tears, use your big boy words and come back with a rational arguement. not hard:beer:

Northman
04-30-2011, 01:57 PM
yes massa!

Oh what a pickle your in north... if the kids a ledgend then youll have to suffer me! if he sucks then your team does too... what to do!

lighten up north, dont be so judgmental and whiney... i say open up your mind you tell me to jerk off lol. wipe away the tears, use your big boy words and come back with a rational arguement. not hard:beer:
Im far more open minded when it comes to Tebow than you are mate. That means i trump you in every way. ;)

Bullgator
04-30-2011, 01:58 PM
Why do you get so defensive of anything critical said about Tebow, bullgator?

We all want him to succeed, some have their doubts.

It's like you're his personal defense attorney.

its a messege board man... we are here to share and defend our views. if we cant have a heated/semi-respectful arguement here about sports, then wtf

Bullgator
04-30-2011, 02:00 PM
Im far more open minded when it comes to Tebow than you are mate. That means i trump you in every way. ;)

I have no problem with that, trump away North. ;)

Slick
04-30-2011, 02:05 PM
Fair enough.

He showed me enough in those three games last year that in my eyes, he should start over Orton, camp or no camp.

I hope Kiper is wrong.

Bullgator
04-30-2011, 02:17 PM
Fair enough.

He showed me enough in those three games last year that in my eyes, he should start over Orton, camp or no camp.

I hope Kiper is wrong.

Im glad you agree that he showed enough to start over KO... not taking away from KO. Hes a good passer, just not a born winner.

anyways ive been doing alot of research on what TT has been working on this off season and i really think you guys are going to be blown away with the improvments. I beleive he will get the snap and explode from under center now that he is comfortable. he will get back in postion fatser to take advantage of the recievers first breaks. he had a lil problem with that last year timing wise. that seems to be rectified. hes been able to work on adding the lil things that make a great passer like lookning off safties and the pump fakes and even sharper on play action.

the big problem is getting snaps in with his receivers, timing and learning the playbook in time... but if anyone can do it teebs can.

in all seriousness nothing would make me happier than for my fav player form my fav team make you guys happy and cheer like he did for us. may he bring you guys joy and championships and i know hes going to do wonders for the community. cheers slick

BeefStew25
04-30-2011, 02:26 PM
Fake Bronco fans are the worst.

rcsodak
04-30-2011, 03:07 PM
Pretty obvious the Broncos aren't his team. "Your team" he says.

Can't take ANY questioning of TT without
name-calling/personal attacks.

Dzone
04-30-2011, 04:45 PM
Elway is likely going announce Tebow as the starter in about 2 hours, according to 104.3 the fan.

Agent of Orange
04-30-2011, 05:12 PM
Elway is likely going announce Tebow as the starter in about 2 hours, according to 104.3 the fan.

Not sure if serious.

silkamilkamonico
04-30-2011, 06:03 PM
Anyone watching NFL Live?

Jaws and Herm Edwards both said they talked to John Elway this weekend, and said Elway is committed to Tebow in the long run, but Kyle Orton will start next season, and finish the year next season, and then they will sit down after the year and talk a possible 1 year, or 2 year extension with Orton.

Slick
04-30-2011, 06:06 PM
I hope he was bullshitting jaws and herm.

Ravage!!!
04-30-2011, 06:08 PM
Jaws is NOT convinced that Tebow is ready at all. Not impressed with his delivery, nor is accuracy, and is absolutely certain that Orton is the starter for the next season, and most likely all the way through the season

TXBRONC
04-30-2011, 08:37 PM
Anyone watching NFL Live?

Jaws and Herm Edwards both said they talked to John Elway this weekend, and said Elway is committed to Tebow in the long run, but Kyle Orton will start next season, and finish the year next season, and then they will sit down after the year and talk a possible 1 year, or 2 year extension with Orton.

I was sure that was just Jaws just giving his opinion. I also don't remember any mention of Orton getting another extension. That doesn't mean I didn't miss it but I just don't remember the conversation going that way.