Marvin Austin vs. Stephen Paea

[Ziggy]

After declaring it to be Miller time in the first round, the Broncos biggest remaining glaring need is at defensive tackle. There are 2 elite prospects left on the board as we get ready to roll into the 2nd round tomorrow. The choices here are Austin and Paea. They are completely different players, but both have a ton of potential. If the board fell just the right way and the Broncos were able to add both, this Dline could get nasty real quick.

Stephen Paea- The immoveable object. I actually see him as more of a 5 technique in the 4-3 despite his smaller size. (6'1 303) This guy is a brick wall. He plays with superb leverage, and has a motor that never stops. While he's not an elite pass rusher and may never be, he can collapse the pocket with brute force and chase down a play from behind with elusive speed for his frame. He broke the bench press record at the combine with an amazing 49 reps. The red flag on him is the knee injury he's recovering from. Had that not happened, he'd have been a mid first rounder.

Marvin Austin- Incredible potential. As a matter of fact, this kid has all-pro potential. At 6'1 1/2 309, he ran a 4.9 40 with 38 reps on the bench press and a 30.5 inch vertical at the combine. At times, he absolutely dominates the line of scrimmage with speed, power, and technique. He takes good angles, can handle a double team, and is stout against both the run and pass. His red flags? He was suspended for the 2010 season for an NCAA rules infraction, and his motor tends to run hot and cold at times. When he's on he's on, but he can disappear at times. Had he played the 2010 season and shown consistant effort, he would have been a top 10 pick and possibly the top rated tackle in this draft.

Both are great prospects, but both have thier issues. That's why they're still around. Paea has lower ceiling but is a much safer pick, and Austin has a lower floor but has all pro potential. Both have the ability to be 10 year starters. Sound familiar?

[cuzz4169]

Denver will pick the best available player...the highest guy on their board if it's a DT so be it. I like Austin

[Ziggy]

If the bpa on thier board isn't a defensive tackle, they had better have some serious plans for filling those spots in free agency.

[Ziggy]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- At the NFL Scouting Combine, one of the most talked about events is the bench press.

Each position group gathers around what amounts to a stage where one player grinds out as many repetitions of 225 pounds as he can while fellow prospects shout encouragement and dozens of coaches and scouts look on.

So when the defensive linemen entered the room, it was packed. Everyone wanted to see what the biggest men at the combine could do.

North Carolina defensive tackle Marvin Austin went third, setting the tone with 38 repetitions.

From there, 26 prospects came and went, only five of which reached the 30 reps mark. Then came Stephen Paea.

The Oregon State product stands an imposing 6-foot-1, 303 pounds, and set up under the bar ready to impose his will. He did just that, cranking out 43 repetitions without so much as a pause. By the time he was through, he had set a new combine record with 49 repetitions.

"I think I can go back and do another one," he would later say at the podium. "My goal was 50 -- I was a little bit mad at myself."

Paea, who moved to the United States with his family from Tonga when he was 16 years old, hoped that performance helped boost a draft stock that already saw him projected to be picked within the first two days.

At Oregon State, he racked up 129 tackles, 29.5 tackles for loss, 14 sacks and three pass breakups over three seasons. He graduated as the school record holder for forced fumbles with nine.

As a senior, he took home the Pac-10's Pat Tillman Defensive Player of the Year award, first-team all-conference honors for the second straight year and was voted an AP First-Team All-American.

He also took home the Morris Trophy for the second consecutive season -- an honor awarded to the conference's top defensive lineman, as voted on by the conference's offensive linemen.

Paea said the strength he demonstrated at the combine is part of what made him so successful at the college level.

"Football players, sometimes when you're tired like in the fourth quarter, and you're punching your hands into the tackle in the trenches, it's very important," he said. "My mindset I think is past 30 (reps in the bench press), you're ready for the fourth quarter."

For all his success in football, he didn't start playing the sport until his senior year in high school. Back home in Tonga, his sport of choice was always rugby.

"In Tonga, rugby is the No. 1 sport," Paea said. "I feel like growing up watching the rugby stars in New Zealand, Australia, they're all Tongan. So I feel like I wanted to be a rugby star. But once I went to the United State, I wanted to change that and have the same mindset toward football."

Luckily, the two games have more than a few similarities, and he said he has taken some of the principles from rugby -- stay low, keep your energy high, always be alert -- to his new sport.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Using-Strength-to-His-Advantage/13592174-a1af-4665-b4b5-ed464960e13b

[cuzz4169]

If the bpa on thier board isn't a defensive tackle, they had better have some serious plans for filling those spots in free agency.

I'm not saying he's the answer but I see denver signing Kris Jenkins in FA.

[cuzz4169]

Ok I take it back I like Stephen Paea...we need to draft him, kid is an animal!!

[horsepig]

I think Dareus will be a great player,. I think Fairley will be a humper ane then a bust, he will not last.

I think Darius would anchor Denver's DL for the next 10 ******* years.

[Northman]

The concerns for both,

Austin:


Negatives: Inconsistent... Takes a few too many plays off... Can be a non-factor for long stretches of a game... Questionable motivation and competitiveness... Seldom gives his best effort... Has been called immature... Did not start two games in 2009 (coach's decision)... Will quit once engaged... Plays too high... Can be slow to locate the ball... Needed to play this season and show better consistency and a better motor to work his way into mid-first round discussion... A bit of a boom or bust prospect... Was suspended for the 2010 season for NCAA rules violation... Character concerns, how much will his involvement with an agent hurt his draft stock?

Paea:


Negatives: Lacks ideal height... Shorter than ideal arms... Just an average pass rusher... Swim and rip moves are still developing, lacks counter moves... All three sacks in 2009 came in the same game... A bit scheme restricted as a 4-3 under tackle... Knee injury lingered during 2008 season at Snow Community College... Relatively inexperienced football player, had only played football for three years prior to Oregon State... Suffered a knee injury during Senior Bowl practices and was unable to do a full workout at the combine.

[WARHORSE]

Id take a chance on Bowers at 2a and Paea at 2b.....then maybe Raheem Moore or Kyle in round 3 if they last.........

[SoCalImport]

Id take a chance on Bowers at 2a and Paea at 2b.....then maybe Raheem Moore or Kyle in round 3 if they last.........

Everything written (that I've seen) says stay away from Bowers. Obviously if he's there in the third then, ok take the chance that his knee is never going to recover because if it does then he's a first round talent.
I'd hate to see us take that gamble as early as the second. This draft is just too damn important.
If we were a better team right now then I could see the risk being mitigated by that fact BUT were not.

Paea/Austin...yes please.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I'm concerned with Paea's knee injury. He didn't work out at the combine (other than lift) because of a knee injury. Is it a concern? I dunno. It's a shame that we suck so badly at DT that we're "excited" that a guy who was good, but not great, in college coming off a knee injury might fall to us. Other than upper body strength, he lacks most other "elite" measurables. Only average speed, no real moves other than the bull rush, not particularly good at pass rushing and only an average run stuffer in college. He's a fire hydrant in the middle of the DL, but I worry a lot about his knee and his ability get penetration at the pro level.

Bowers (who I'd love to see fall to us) also has a knee concern. Bowers is a complete risk/reward with his knee. This dude is either going to be Julius Peppers or Courtney Brown. I know it sounds hypocritical because of what I said about Paea, but I'm willing to take the risk for Bowers because he has elite talent.

Austin has now kinda become my "favorite" DT left because he doesn't have any health issues, he has one less year of wear and tear from college, and his measurables are off the charts. I think Fox and Allen will be able to "motivate" him not to take plays off. I'm hoping he's the pick at #36 if Bowers is gone.

[rcsodak]

I'm concerned with Paea's knee injury. He didn't work out at the combine (other than lift) because of a knee injury. Is it a concern? I dunno. It's a shame that we suck so badly at DT that we're "excited" that a guy who was good, but not great, in college coming off a knee injury might fall to us. Other than upper body strength, he lacks most other "elite" measurables. Only average speed, no real moves other than the bull rush, not particularly good at pass rushing and only an average run stuffer in college. He's a fire hydrant in the middle of the DL, but I worry a lot about his knee and his ability get penetration at the pro level.

Bowers (who I'd love to see fall to us) also has a knee concern. Bowers is a complete risk/reward with his knee. This dude is either going to be Julius Peppers or Courtney Brown. I know it sounds hypocritical because of what I said about Paea, but I'm willing to take the risk for Bowers because he has elite talent.

Austin has now kinda become my "favorite" DT left because he doesn't have any health issues, he has one less year of wear and tear from college, and his measurables are off the charts. I think Fox and Allen will be able to "motivate" him not to take plays off. I'm hoping he's the pick at #36 if Bowers is gone.
EVERYBODY takes plays off in college. And MANY do in the nfl. Some are just better at hiding it. Lol

[SOCALORADO.]

I'm concerned with Paea's knee injury. He didn't work out at the combine (other than lift) because of a knee injury. Is it a concern? I dunno. It's a shame that we suck so badly at DT that we're "excited" that a guy who was good, but not great, in college coming off a knee injury might fall to us. Other than upper body strength, he lacks most other "elite" measurables. Only average speed, no real moves other than the bull rush, not particularly good at pass rushing and only an average run stuffer in college. He's a fire hydrant in the middle of the DL, but I worry a lot about his knee and his ability get penetration at the pro level.

Bowers (who I'd love to see fall to us) also has a knee concern. Bowers is a complete risk/reward with his knee. This dude is either going to be Julius Peppers or Courtney Brown. I know it sounds hypocritical because of what I said about Paea, but I'm willing to take the risk for Bowers because he has elite talent.

Austin has now kinda become my "favorite" DT left because he doesn't have any health issues, he has one less year of wear and tear from college, and his measurables are off the charts. I think Fox and Allen will be able to "motivate" him not to take plays off. I'm hoping he's the pick at #36 if Bowers is gone.

I am beggining to think that maybe taking MAustin at 36, M Wilson at 46 and then hoping NT/DT K Ellis is there at 67 might be the best situation.

[TXBRONC]

If possible draft both.

[CoachChaz]

EVERYBODY takes plays off in college. And MANY do in the nfl. Some are just better at hiding it. Lol

THANK YOU!!!!

I beg people to watch even the best players in the NFL and tell me they dont take plays off. No one ever wants to hear that though.

[SOCALORADO.]

THANK YOU!!!!

I beg people to watch even the best players in the NFL and tell me they dont take plays off. No one ever wants to hear that though.

Except for Von, he never takes anything off including Christmas and Easter.
Rushing the passer 24-7-365. Mother******!!!

[CoachChaz]

Except for Von, he never takes anything off including Christmas and Easter.
Rushing the passer 24-7-365. Mother******!!!

No...I've seen Von take a play or two off. Usually it was after a few plays where he did something freakishly athletic...but he's not Superman either.

[SOCALORADO.]

No...I've seen Von take a play or two off. Usually it was after a few plays where he did something freakishly athletic...but he's not Superman either.

Well hes got those Clark Kent lookin glasses so i just put 2 and 2 together and i got................

[CoachChaz]

Well hes got those Clark Kent lookin glasses so i just put 2 and 2 together and i got................

I could elaborate, but you'd have to sing the Aggie War Hymn and show me a secret handshake before I could do it.

:-)

[TXBRONC]

I could elaborate, but you'd have to sing the Aggie War Hymn and show me a secret handshake before I could do it.

:-)

That sounds a little to complex for an Aggie. :heh: J/K

[SOCALORADO.]

I could elaborate, but you'd have to sing the Aggie War Hymn and show me a secret handshake before I could do it.

:-)

And you know that aint happenin!
http://pickandpop.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/usc.jpg

[Traveler]

I am beggining to think that maybe taking MAustin at 36, M Wilson at 46 and then hoping NT/DT K Ellis is there at 67 might be the best situation.

That would be AWESOME!

[TXBRONC]

That would be AWESOME!

If comes down to Wilson and a defensive tackle and the defensive tackle is rated higher than Wilson then I want the defensive tackle.

[xzn]

Stephen Paea had NINE forced fumbles and was the Pac-10 Defensive Player of the year, voted by other players. He's a true "power pig". A Tongan warrior spirit combined with a combine record 49 reps @ 225! You wanna stop the run? THIS GUY. He may be an even better stonewall, immovable object than Dareus. The scary thing is that he's only scratching the surface of his potential as a football, rather than rugby, player.

I wouldn't mind Austin either, I think Fox can motivate him, but I'd rather have the self-starter with the compelling narrative...

With 2b I'd like to get Kyle Rudolph or Jacqizz Rogers.

[Lonestar]

Except for Von, he never takes anything off including Christmas and Easter.
Rushing the passer 24-7-365. !!!

Let's just hope he does not let the runner go by him as he is headed for the QB.

[Lonestar]

I'd rather have mr tonga. As he is an immoveable object. The proverbial really BIG round peg for the round hole.
Leta hope he is still there.

[Lonestar]

Let me add I'm not all that concerned about getting pressure up the middle as much as not allowing the QB and Rbs to escape there when the Presaure comes from the outside.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Okay so NFLN (the same folks that broke the Von Miller pick a day early) are saying we're seriously considering Jarvis Jenkins in the second. Someone please tell me he's a good idea and is better than Austin or Paea...

They also said Bowers and Rudolf are in play in the second round.

[Traveler]

Okay so NFLN (the same folks that broke the Von Miller pick a day early) are saying we're seriously considering Jarvis Jenkins in the second. Someone please tell me he's a good idea and is better than Austin or Paea...

They also said Bowers and Rudolf are in play in the second round.

I don't get all the love for Rudolf. I'll defer to the FO since they know more than I ever could.

[SOCALORADO.]

Okay so NFLN (the same folks that broke the Von Miller pick a day early) are saying we're seriously considering Jarvis Jenkins in the second. Someone please tell me he's a good idea and is better than Austin or Paea...

They also said Bowers and Rudolf are in play in the second round.

Jarvis Jenkins, DE/DT, Clemson
Height: 6-4. Weight: 310.
Projected 40 Time: 5.06.
Combine 40 Time: 4.98.
Pro Day 40 Time: .
Benchx225: 17. Vertical: 26.5. Arm: 33 1/4.
Projected Round (2011): 2-3.
1/26/11: SENIOR BOWL-Jarvis Jenkins proved to be too much for center Kris O'Dowd. Jenkins dominated the matchup in the one-on-one drills.

Hes pretty good. I had him in one of my mocks here, but i had him going in the 3rd.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I don't get all the love for Rudolf. I'll defer to the FO since they know more than I ever could.

In that case, from what they are saying, it was Eric Olsen lobbying pretty hard for him to the coaches.

I think taking a TE in this draft is a mistake before the 6th or 7th round.

[xzn]

Okay so NFLN (the same folks that broke the Von Miller pick a day early) are saying we're seriously considering Jarvis Jenkins in the second. Someone please tell me he's a good idea and is better than Austin or Paea...

They also said Bowers and Rudolf are in play in the second round.

That's got to be for pick 2b, to the extent that it's true at all...

[SOCALORADO.]

In that case, from what they are saying, it was Eric Olsen lobbying pretty hard for him to the coaches.

I think taking a TE in this draft is a mistake before the 6th or 7th round.

Both Rudolph and Stocker are worthy of top 3 round consideration.
If they played for teams that had coaching staffs that were not totally inept, they would both have been considered top picks.
They basically were lost on teams that had all kinds of problems. Its really not their fault.
But in the case of Rudolph thered flag for me is his hamstring. I believe he totally tore it! So hes tainted goods as well. I just cant see the FO going after medical players with red flags after they said they need to hit on all of these picks.
I could see Stocker in the 3rd though depending on how the 2nd pans out.

[CoachChaz]

Okay so NFLN (the same folks that broke the Von Miller pick a day early) are saying we're seriously considering Jarvis Jenkins in the second. Someone please tell me he's a good idea and is better than Austin or Paea...

They also said Bowers and Rudolf are in play in the second round.

A lot of people will use the excuse that Jenkins did well because he played next to Bowers, but in reality, he is a very good prospect. I think 36 may be high for him, but if the Denver brass likes him better than Austin, I cant say I'd be disappointed with the pick. If they took Austin at 36 and Jenkins at 46, that would be a dream. Either way, I like Jenkins and I think he can be a very good hole plugger at the next level.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Both Rudolph and Stocker are worthy of top 3 round consideration.
If they played for teams that had coaching staffs that were not totally inept, they would both have been considered top picks.
They basically were lost on teams that had all kinds of problems. Its really not their fault.
But in the case of Rudolph thered flag for me is his hamstring. I believe he totally tore it! So hes tainted goods as well. I just cant see the FO going after medical players with red flags after they said they need to hit on all of these picks.
I could see Stocker in the 3rd though depending on how the 2nd pans out.

I'm not trying to imply I don't think Stocker or Rudolf aren't worth the pick... I'm trying to say that the BRONCOS don't need to waste more draft picks on TEs. We have Richard Quinn (2nd round joke) and Dan Gronkowski (another joke traded for a player that was a 2nd round pick traded for a 1st round pick).

Dance with the girl you brought, IMO. Make these two guys earn their paycheck (draft status). Rebuild the D-line through the draft and if we need another TE pick one up in FA.

McDaniels' offense didn't use the TE. Fox's didn't in Carolina, either. His whole time there, Fox had Chris Mangum and then Dante Rosario as his starting TEs. I think we should use every pick we have on the defense except maybe one for an OT in case we can't bring Harris back. There are some decent guys in this draft, but no TEs that are a "must have".

Shit, you want to fix a lot of problems in one? DRAFT CHARLES CLAY from Tulsa! He can play HB, FB, and H-Back. He's the perfect filler for us - a guy who is a great short-yardage back, has great hands and can line up all over the formation. He could easily be our Peyton Hillis/Chris Cooley. 6'3", 245 lbs, and good speed... Draft this dude in round 6!!!!

[Traveler]

in that case, from what they are saying, it was eric olsen lobbying pretty hard for him to the coaches.

i think taking a te in this draft is a mistake before the 6th or 7th round.

this!

[Traveler]

I'm not trying to imply I don't think Stocker or Rudolf aren't worth the pick... I'm trying to say that the BRONCOS don't need to waste more draft picks on TEs. We have Richard Quinn (2nd round joke) and Dan Gronkowski (another joke traded for a player that was a 2nd round pick traded for a 1st round pick).

Dance with the girl you brought, IMO. Make these two guys earn their paycheck (draft status). Rebuild the D-line through the draft and if we need another TE pick one up in FA.

McDaniels' offense didn't use the TE. Fox's didn't in Carolina, either. His whole time there, Fox had Chris Mangum and then Dante Rosario as his starting TEs. I think we should use every pick we have on the defense except maybe one for an OT in case we can't bring Harris back. There are some decent guys in this draft, but no TEs that are a "must have".

Shit, you want to fix a lot of problems in one? DRAFT CHARLES CLAY from Tulsa! He can play HB, FB, and H-Back. He's the perfect filler for us - a guy who is a great short-yardage back, has great hands and can line up all over the formation. He could easily be our Peyton Hillis/Chris Cooley. 6'3", 245 lbs, and good speed... Draft this dude in round 6!!!!


The TE position is one area I'd like to see them address in FA, not the draft.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

The TE position is one area I'd like to see them address in FA, not the draft.

That's why Charles Clay would be PERFECT for us. Forget another high round RB just so we can have a "pounder". Clay can do it all: power back, FB, H-back, slot receiver...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkwoERstzYI

[TXBRONC]

Jarvis Jenkins, DE/DT, Clemson
Height: 6-4. Weight: 310.
Projected 40 Time: 5.06.
Combine 40 Time: 4.98.
Pro Day 40 Time: .
Benchx225: 17. Vertical: 26.5. Arm: 33 1/4.
Projected Round (2011): 2-3.
1/26/11: SENIOR BOWL-Jarvis Jenkins proved to be too much for center Kris O'Dowd. Jenkins dominated the matchup in the one-on-one drills.

Hes pretty good. I had him in one of my mocks here, but i had him going in the 3rd.

That's one, I hope they have a couple others in mind as well.

[topscribe]

A lot of people will use the excuse that Jenkins did well because he played next to Bowers, but in reality, he is a very good prospect. I think 36 may be high for him, but if the Denver brass likes him better than Austin, I cant say I'd be disappointed with the pick. If they took Austin at 36 and Jenkins at 46, that would be a dream. Either way, I like Jenkins and I think he can be a very good hole plugger at the next level.

I've been beating the drum for Austin and Paea, but if Denver likes someone
else better, then, the way they have done their homework, I'm not going to
argue with them.

-----

[CoachChaz]

I've been beating the drum for Austin and Paea, but if Denver likes someone
else better, then, the way they have done their homework, I'm not going to
argue with them.

-----

All 3 of them probably rate right around the same. I like Austin because if not for just simply getting caught doing what MANY other NCAA players do...he'd have likely been a top 15 pick. Cant say the same about Paea, Jenkins, Nevis or Ellis.

Getting talent like that under Nunnally will be very nice...assuming Fox, Allen and ELway share my personal opinion

[rcsodak]

I could elaborate, but you'd have to sing the Aggie War Hymn and show me a secret handshake before I could do it.

:-)
ahaa! Trick! There ISN'T a secret handshake.
Just.....a kiss.

[topscribe]

All 3 of them probably rate right around the same. I like Austin because if not for just simply getting caught doing what MANY other NCAA players do...he'd have likely been a top 15 pick. Cant say the same about Paea, Jenkins, Nevis or Ellis.

Getting talent like that under Nunnally will be very nice...assuming Fox, Allen and ELway share my personal opinion

Here's hoping the three who pick ahead of Denver don't . . .

-----

[rcsodak]

Let's just hope he does not let the runner go by him as he is headed for the QB.That is fairley.

[rcsodak]

Jarvis Jenkins, DE/DT, Clemson
Height: 6-4. Weight: 310.
Projected 40 Time: 5.06.
Combine 40 Time: 4.98.
Pro Day 40 Time: .
Benchx225: 17. Vertical: 26.5. Arm: 33 1/4.
Projected Round (2011): 2-3.
1/26/11: SENIOR BOWL-Jarvis Jenkins proved to be too much for center Kris O'Dowd. Jenkins dominated the matchup in the one-on-one drills.

Hes pretty good. I had him in one of my mocks here, but i had him going in the 3rd.
17reps? Is he a CB?

[Lonestar]

The TE position is one area I'd like to see them address in FA, not the draft.

I do not see the huge need or love for that matter on a TE

The schemes they are going to play are remotely TE dependent. Josh had no real need for a TE catching the ball neither did fox.

Just because we have had a HOF TE does not mean we need to look for the next one.

Do not waste a draft pick on one till late if then.

We have 3 on the roster right now.
Fix the Dl and maybe ORT spot then MLB and Safety (for the future).

[Lonestar]

17reps? Is he a CB?

That was what jumped out at me.

[Traveler]

I do not see the huge need or love for that matter on a TE

The schemes they are going to play are remotely TE dependent. Josh had no real need for a TE catching the ball neither did fox.

Just because we have had a HOF TE does not mean we need to look for the next one.

Do not waste a draft pick on one till late if then.

We have 3 on the roster right now.
Fix the Dl and maybe ORT spot then MLB and Safety (for the future).

No argument from me here.

[xzn]

You guys are talking me down from the TE ledge.

Would anyone be upset if we took Bowers at #46?

[xzn]

That was what jumped out at me.

me3. wtf?

[topscribe]

That was what jumped out at me.

Maybe it was just an off-day for him? Or (hopefully) a typo?

-----

[topscribe]

You guys are talking me down from the TE ledge.

Would anyone be upset if we took Bowers at #46?

Maybe not. The last thing the Broncos need is DE, IMO, but Bowers' potential is
something that would be very tempting to take a flyer on at that spot . . .

-----

[Traveler]

you guys are talking me down from the te ledge.

Would anyone be upset if we took bowers at #46?

Nope! But I don't think we'll keep #46 for some reason.

[silkamilkamonico]

Maybe not. The last thing the Broncos need is DE, IMO, but Bowers' potential is
something that would be very tempting to take a flyer on at that spot . . .

-----

Agreed. He could still very well be the best player in the draft after reassessing in 5 years. Tough position to be in because Denver has no shot at competing if they can't get some good inside help.

[xzn]

Agreed. He could still very well be the best player in the draft after reassessing in 5 years. Tough position to be in because Denver has no shot at competing if they can't get some good inside help.

If we already had Paea from #36 and D'Quan was still around @ #46 I'd be :elefant:

[TXBRONC]

You guys are talking me down from the TE ledge.

Would anyone be upset if we took Bowers at #46?

I would rather we not take him. It's like Chaz said this kid went from being a high number one to falling out of the first altogther. There has to be a lot more to the knee issue than just mere rumor.

[xzn]

I'm militantly agnostic about his injury. There's clearly some fire with that smoke, but I don't know if he can rehab to 95% of his best and neither does anyone else.

Unless you were SURE that he has an unrecoverable injury he has too much upside to ignore that late in the draft.

[Lonestar]

ahaa! Trick! There ISN'T a secret handshake.
Just.....a kiss.

Near or on the rectum so says the Texas UT and Texas tech players and coaches. :laugh:

[Lonestar]

Maybe it was just an off-day for him? Or (hopefully) a typo?

-----
Even at 27 that is Pretty pathetic for a DT. 37 would be good 71 one better.

Sounds like a weakling to me. Some one that should be playing flag football.

[Traveler]

If we already had Paea from #36 and D'Quan was still around @ #46 I'd be :elefant:

Never bad to have too many pass rushers! Lord knows we need em!

[xzn]

Never bad to have too many pass rushers! Lord knows we need em!

A healthy D'Quan Bowers makes Elvis a super-sub in pass rush situations.

Just picture 3rd and 6 vs. nickle package:

Von Miller -LDE
Robert Ayers - LDT
D'Quan Bowers - RDT
Elvis Dumerville - RDE

:defense::defense::defense::defense:

[xzn]

Base Package:

Robert Ayers - LDE + Jason Hunter and Ryan Mc Bean
Marcus Thomas - LDT + Vickerson
Stephen Paea - RDT + Louis Leonard or Draft Pick
D'Quan Bowers - RDE + Elvis + David Veikune

Von Miller - SOLB
D.J. Williams -MLB
Wesley Woodyard - WOLB

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Many have Bowers going to the Browns...

McShay at least has us taking Paea at 36 (dont' look at 46 though) and Kipperhead.... well, I think it best everyone ignore his 2nd round picks today... :tsk:

Trolling the internet I mostly see everyone saying Austin for us at 36...

[Ziggy]

Paea might be more valuable than Austin, the way this team is shaping up. He's probably the better run stopper. Some how, some way, we need to get to 3rd and long for Miller and Doom to be effective.

[topscribe]

Base Package:

Robert Ayers - LDE + Jason Hunter and Ryan Mc Bean
Marcus Thomas - LDT + Vickerson
Stephen Paea - RDT + Louis Leonard or Draft Pick
D'Quan Bowers - RDE + Elvis + David Veikune

Von Miller - SOLB
D.J. Williams -MLB
Wesley Woodyard - WOLB

Elvis at 2nd string? :shocked:

Elvis might have something to say about that . . .

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[SpringsBroncoFan]

Paea might be more valuable than Austin, the way this team is shaping up. He's probably the better run stopper. Some how, some way, we need to get to 3rd and long for Miller and Doom to be effective.

One pick that sent a chill up my spine was I saw one mock where Ellis was gone between 46 & 67... :mad:

[xzn]

Elvis at 2nd string? :shocked:

Elvis might have something to say about that . . .

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D'Quan if anything close to healthy is a significantly better run stopper.

No slight to Elvis, he'd be freed up to play the same number of snaps but in attack mode!

[MileHighCrew]

Base Package:

Robert Ayers - LDE + Jason Hunter and Ryan Mc Bean
Marcus Thomas - LDT + Vickerson
Stephen Paea - RDT + Louis Leonard or Draft Pick
D'Quan Bowers - RDE + Elvis + David Veikune

Von Miller - SOLB
D.J. Williams -MLB
Wesley Woodyard - WOLB

Holy crap that is a lot of cash to have Doom and the sidelines

[Superchop 7]

They really need to get Bowers. This reminds me of Mauluga..... make the move.

[topscribe]

Holy crap that is a lot of cash to have Doom and the sidelines

That, and Doom has gotten much better against the run over the years.

But I would think it would be hard for anyone to put an All-Pro on the bench,
much less a rookie being able to do it.

In fact, with all the pressing needs on the team, I would question the wisdom
of drafting in a position where they already have an All-Pro . . .

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[TXBRONC]

Base Package:

Robert Ayers - LDE + Jason Hunter and Ryan Mc Bean
Marcus Thomas - LDT + Vickerson
Stephen Paea - RDT + Louis Leonard or Draft Pick
D'Quan Bowers - RDE + Elvis + David Veikune

Von Miller - SOLB
D.J. Williams -MLB
Wesley Woodyard - WOLB

I would rather have Dumervil starting because always seems to be around when the ball is on the ground.

[MileHighCrew]

That, and Doom has gotten much better against the run over the years.

But I would think it would be hard for anyone to put an All-Pro on the bench,
much less a rookie being able to do it.

In fact, with all the pressing needs on the team, I would question the wisdom
of drafting in a position where they already have an All-Pro . . .

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If he was healthy and played the other side and we could trade Ayers.... I could do that. But the idea of Ayers as a 3 down player and Doom as a situational player doesn't make sense to me no matter Bowers health

[Traveler]

If he was healthy and played the other side and we could trade Ayers.... I could do that. But the idea of Ayers as a 3 down player and Doom as a situational player doesn't make sense to me no matter Bowers health

I'd think Ayers would be the situational player. Either way, it'd be a nice dilema for the team to have. Eh?

[Ziggy]

I still say we should trade Doom for Mario Williams straight up.

[topscribe]

If he was healthy and played the other side and we could trade Ayers.... I could do that. But the idea of Ayers as a 3 down player and Doom as a situational player doesn't make sense to me no matter Bowers health

I really believe Ayers is much better than what we have seen. Remember, what
we saw of him was his trying to learn and adapt to a position at which he had
never played. Now, he's going back to where he achieved his #1 draft status.

The guy was so quick, fast, and powerful off the three-point stance as a pass
rusher that I saw a superstar in him. His problem may have simply been job fit.
But even at that, he seemed to be coming around enough toward the last of
last year that he was beginning to look like a fixture.

I just think that, in view of all their needs, the Broncos ought to look
elsewhere than to take a flyer on a player who might be a star if he can fully
recover from a knee injury, in a position where they didn't particularly need
him, anyway . . .

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[xzn]

Okay, call Elvis the starter and let him play the first series. Then play him mostly on second and third down the rest of the game with D"Quan keeping him and Ayers both fresh.

Bowers would bring great depth, not to mention girth, to the DE rotation. Said "DE rotation" is essentially non-existent unless you expect a lot out of David Veikune and Jason Hunter.

[Traveler]

I really believe Ayers is much better than what we have seen. Remember, what
we saw of him was his trying to learn and adapt to a position at which he had
never played. Now, he's going back to where he achieved his #1 draft status.

The guy was so quick, fast, and powerful off the three-point stance as a pass
rusher that I saw a superstar in him. His problem may have simply been job fit.
But even at that, he seemed to be coming around enough toward the last of
last year that he was beginning to look like a fixture.

I just think that, in view of all their needs, the Broncos ought to look
elsewhere than to take a flyer on a player who might be a star if he can fully
recover from a knee injury in a position where they didn't particularly need
him, anyway . . .

-----

If Fox and his staff can't get Ayers coached up properly, no one can. I'd love to see him succeed.

[tomjonesrocks]

I just want to get on with it--get a DT--ANY DT--on the roster.

[topscribe]

If Fox and his staff can't get Ayers coached up properly, no one can. I'd love to see him succeed.

Wouldn't that be something? Ayers coming off the left, Doom coming off the
right, and Miller coming from anywhere on the field . . . I'm not sure Detroit
would have it over on the Broncos in the pass rush . . . especially if they end
up with the player you have them taking in the second round, in your sig . . .

-----

[MileHighCrew]

I really believe Ayers is much better than what we have seen. Remember, what
we saw of him was his trying to learn and adapt to a position at which he had
never played. Now, he's going back to where he achieved his #1 draft status.

The guy was so quick, fast, and powerful off the three-point stance as a pass
rusher that I saw a superstar in him. His problem may have simply been job fit.
But even at that, he seemed to be coming around enough toward the last of
last year that he was beginning to look like a fixture.

I just think that, in view of all their needs, the Broncos ought to look
elsewhere than to take a flyer on a player who might be a star if he can fully
recover from a knee injury, in a position where they didn't particularly need
him, anyway . . .

-----

I'm on your side, I am just saying if you were going to take Bowers then limit or get rid of an unproven Ayers not a Pro Bowl player in Doom.

IMO on the side with this, Bowers would be worth the gamble but we don't need him, Ayers has all the makings to be a star but they need to let him develop at one position just as the Broncos knew when they drafted him. Doom is great pass rusher and getting better against the run but I think the Broncos over payed for him.
But because they are paying Doom big money and Ayers 1st round money, they have to see what both can do when healthy in the 4-3 defence together.
All that said if Bowers drops to 46 you have to take him

[CoachChaz]

A few sentences I heard through the grapevine (cant release my source) on Bowers.

Words actually listed in a team medical report on him...

"degenerative joint"..."bone on bone"

Also heard Denver docs wouldnt clear him. That could be a rumor though

[SpringsBroncoFan]

A few sentences I heard through the grapevine (cant release my source) on Bowers.

Words actually listed in a team medical report on him...

"degenerative joint"..."bone on bone"

Also heard Denver docs wouldnt clear him. That could be a rumor though

I read somewhere (sorry, I forget) that Cleveland did clear him and that's why many have him slated to the Browns...

[MileHighCrew]

A few sentences I heard through the grapevine (cant release my source) on Bowers.

Words actually listed in a team medical report on him...

"degenerative joint"..."bone on bone"

Also heard Denver docs wouldnt clear him. That could be a rumor though

That makes the one contract player label make sense

[tomjonesrocks]

God, please--enough with the Bowers stuff.

He might be a stud for someone--but not us.

For us he'd be looking cool all the time on the sidelines. What was the last banged-up player that worked out here?

I'll say it--in addition to terrible, terrible luck--our trainers and injury people suck. We need 100 percent healthy bodies--at least to start with.

[TXBRONC]

A few sentences I heard through the grapevine (cant release my source) on Bowers.

Words actually listed in a team medical report on him...

"degenerative joint"..."bone on bone"

Also heard Denver docs wouldnt clear him. That could be a rumor though

If that's the case taking him would be the equivalent of signing Dewanye Robertson.

[CoachChaz]

I read somewhere (sorry, I forget) that Cleveland did clear him and that's why many have him slated to the Browns...

I dont have access to team clearances, but I can get info from a friend in one organization. Tough to reach him this time of year, but I texted him on a few things and he shared what he could

[Traveler]

Wouldn't that be something? Ayers coming off the left, Doom coming off the
right, and Miller coming from anywhere on the field . . . I'm not sure Detroit
would have it over on the Broncos in the pass rush . . . especially if they end
up with the player you have them taking in the second round, in your sig . . .

-----

You noticed that, huh? Got my fingers crossed that it happens.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

You noticed that, huh? Got my fingers crossed that it happens.

Lol... I originally had my 46 as a 4th (trade) two months ago...

Then I switched to your guy at 46, then slipped Carpenter in at 46 then went back to my original guy at 46...

I'll cross my fingers for either of them... :D

[silkamilkamonico]

I'm on your side, I am just saying if you were going to take Bowers then limit or get rid of an unproven Ayers not a Pro Bowl player in Doom.

http://www.sportramble.com/images/arnoldgary-colemandiffrent-strokes1.jpg

[xzn]

Alright, when I threw out Bowers at #46 I expected a bunch of folks to say he won't be there. He may well not even be there at #36.

But, unless you're SURE he's a gimp, how can you not take him if he were available with the 14th pick in the second round?

[CoachChaz]

Alright, when I threw out Bowers at #46 I expected a bunch of folks to say he won't be there. He may well not even be there at #36.

But, unless you're SURE he's a gimp, how can you not take him if he were available with the 14th pick in the second round?

Im not privvy to ALL the information, but if a guy projected as a top 5 pick 2 weeks ago is still available with the 14th pick in the 2nd round...


...then I'm pretty SURE he's a gimp

[xzn]

Im not privvy to ALL the information, but if a guy projected as a top 5 pick 2 weeks ago is still available with the 14th pick in the 2nd round...


...then I'm pretty SURE he's a gimp

If he lasted that long perhaps. Didn't his surgeon give him a full green light. Has he recently re-injured it?

[SpringsBroncoFan]

If he lasted that long perhaps. Didn't his surgeon give him a full green light. Has he recently re-injured it?

Dr. Andrews is a hellofa good surgeon but there are no guarantees any future surgery would be a success

[CoachChaz]

If he lasted that long perhaps. Didn't his surgeon give him a full green light. Has he recently re-injured it?

Last interview I heard with Bowers, he said his doctor cleared him and that all of the knee discussion was blown out of proportion. He also said that ALL of the NFL teams had a copy of his medical report and that he wasnt worried. Well...if all the teams have a copy of this report...and he still hasnt been drafted...I have to wonder

[Superchop 7]

We need this guy bad.

Serious game changer.

[SOCALORADO.]

Last interview I heard with Bowers, he said his doctor cleared him and that all of the knee discussion was blown out of proportion. He also said that ALL of the NFL teams had a copy of his medical report and that he wasnt worried. Well...if all the teams have a copy of this report...and he still hasnt been drafted...I have to wonder

Didnt he fail the physical in DEN?

[xzn]

Coach you make a good point and the truth probably is that this is all a moot point, I'll be surprised if he's even available at #36.

I don't support using #36 if he is FTR.

But at #46 I'd have to have really strong medical information to rule him out...

[CoachChaz]

Didnt he fail the physical in DEN?

I believe so

[Traveler]

Shefter says to look for Bowers to continue to fall. Says his knee is still loose and will require another surgery to fix the problem. Poor kid!

[BigDaddyBronco]

Shefter says to look for Bowers to continue to fall. Says his knee is still loose and will require another surgery to fix the problem. Poor kid!
That sucks, I feel bad for him.

[CoachChaz]

Watch Detroit draft him at 44 and people who think he's healthy and that Fairley is a lock just drool over the Lions continuing to improve the one area of their team that is the strongest

[SOCALORADO.]

Watch Detroit draft him at 44 and people who think he's healthy and that Fairley is a lock just drool over the Lions continuing to improve the one area of their team that is the strongest

Yeah!
You know for certian teams they can get away with taking a chance on a player that might not pan out for any # of reasons. NOT DEN
NE or NO or PITT, etc, these teams can take a Nate Solder high, and if he doesnt pan out its ok, cause they got 2 more 1st rounders next year, and if he does, bonus for them! Not to mention the fact that they are already good, it wont kill the entire team to miss on a pick.
NOT DEN.

[MileHighCrew]

If somehow Paea and Austin are both gone (I hope now) then I would be more open to the idea

[atwater27]

back to back picks and somehow Paea and Austen are still on the board......WHAT THE ****!!!!!!

[nevcraw]

I blame ziggy for no Austin or Paea... what a jinx thread!!

[hotcarl]

pretty shitty draft imo

[hotcarl]

its so cool when we outsmart ourselves every ******* year we are so ******* clever



save some money on scouting just take mayocks (or literally anyones) mock draft and use that and we would have a team of freaking all-pros over the last 5 drafts

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Austin vs. Paea...

The verdict is in...

Apparently they both suck!