Nate Webster- The Stats Don't Tell the Story

[Ziggy]

I'm seeing a lot of people praising Nate Webster's play, including the announcers. Yes, he forced a fumble. It was well downfield (as most of his tackles are) and was a helmet to helmet hit which he will probably be fined for. He also got 1 sack. That was on a jailbreak blitz where we brought about 8 guys and he was the one unblocked. Anyone see the QB sneak by Gerrard on a ctitical 3rd down where the D-line actually stepped up and had him stuffed temporarily? He spun out and got the first down. If any of you have the game taped, go back and watch Webster on that play. He's standing about a yard back with a thumb up his butt not even trying to get in on the play. If he even attempts to help out on the tackle, Jacksonville doesn't get that first down. He has quickly become the most overrated player on this team. His tackle numbers are great because he makes a ton of tackles well downfield. Long runs are usually coming right through the gaps that he should be plugging. His instincts are poor, his pass coverage is poor, and his tackling is poor. Yes, the D-line is horrible too, but some help from the MLB position would be more than welcomed.

[Italianmobstr7]

Nate has played well for the most part. He brings fire and leadership to our d. Stop being a hater and being grumpy after a loss. He's by no means the best MLB but he not the worst either.

[honz]

I don't think our LBs are our problem on D. Could we use an upgrade? Sure, but we better upgrade our DLine before we start worrying about our LBs.

[weazel]

I don't think our LBs are our problem on D. Could we use an upgrade? Sure, but we better upgrade our DLine before we start worrying about our LBs.
Webster is the worst starting MLB in the league. Boss Bailey makes Ian Gold look like an all-star

[AlWilsonizKING]

Haters, haters, haters.........I love how it's always 1 players fault for a loss.........go back and look at the game tape real close, you'll find a lot of players on any given play who are out of position, missing tackels, etc....get over the hate and see that the TEAM needs some work!!! One player doesn't make or break a team. By that reasoning, we go out and get a MLB all of our D's problems are solved.......YEAH RIGHT!!!!!


Keep it up NATE!!!!



PEACE!!!

[turftoad]

Haters, haters, haters.........I love how it's always 1 players fault for a loss.........go back and look at the game tape real close, you'll find a lot of players on any given play who are out of position, missing tackels, etc....get over the hate and see that the TEAM needs some work!!! One player doesn't make or break a team. By that reasoning, we go out and get a MLB all of our D's problems are solved.......YEAH RIGHT!!!!!


Keep it up NATE!!!!



PEACE!!!

No hate here, just no man love either.

He's below average. No, he's not the only problem but a big part of it.

DL, both DT, DE and Saftey are other main concerns.

[Ziggy]

Haters, haters, haters.........I love how it's always 1 players fault for a loss.........go back and look at the game tape real close, you'll find a lot of players on any given play who are out of position, missing tackels, etc....get over the hate and see that the TEAM needs some work!!! One player doesn't make or break a team. By that reasoning, we go out and get a MLB all of our D's problems are solved.......YEAH RIGHT!!!!!


Keep it up NATE!!!!



PEACE!!!


I don't remember saying that Nate makes or breaks this team. Neither did I say that the loss was all his fault. You might try reading before you post.

[lex]

While I think Nate is definitely upgradeable, he is also an example of how its hard to tell to what degree Mike needs to be upgraded due to having an incompetent DC. Same with S and DE. Although, id definitely like to see us draft a S since it seems like its a fairly deep draft at S.

[Gamechanger]

wasn't Nate Webster a Tampa 2 type MLB though?

[hamrob]

Nate has played well for the most part. He brings fire and leadership to our d. Stop being a hater and being grumpy after a loss. He's by no means the best MLB but he not the worst either.I have to admit...I've been a hater. But, I'm willing to admit that I've been a little too critical at times on Webster as well. I thought he played well yesterday. Our safeties on the other hand...terrible!

[slim]

He played OK in the first quarter. After that he was pretty bad.

[AlWilsonizKING]

I don't remember saying that Nate makes or breaks this team. Neither did I say that the loss was all his fault. You might try reading before you post.


I didn't say that, but you are singling out one or two plays and making it seem like thats a big reason we lost.

What about Bly's play this year and last? What about the missed tackels? What about the Fumbles? What about the INT's by Cutler? a lot happens during the course of a game and to single out Nate all the time to me is wrong. I think he bring passion and energy to a team that lacks it. We know he's not the best but to say he's the worst.......the coaches sure don't think so.


PEACE!!!

[Ziggy]

I didn't say that, but you are singling out one or two plays and making it seem like thats a big reason we lost.

What about Bly's play this year and last? What about the missed tackels? What about the Fumbles? What about the INT's by Cutler? a lot happens during the course of a game and to single out Nate all the time to me is wrong. I think he bring passion and energy to a team that lacks it. We know he's not the best but to say he's the worst.......the coaches sure don't think so.


PEACE!!!


I'm not making it seem like that's the reason we lost. Read into it what you want to, that's your right. I've stated in many posts that our D line is horrible. This is a forum. This is where fans discuss thier opinions. Mine is that Nate Webster wouldn't start for any other defense in the NFL. He's just not good. You have the right to your opinion also. Feel free to state it, but don't put words in my mouth.

[AlWilsonizKING]

I love how FANS think they know more than COACHES....:tsk:Why, if that is the case, are they not coaching in the NFL....hmmmm could it be they don't know as much as they think they do.........:confused:

IMO the DL, 1 CB and the Safties are a worse problem than the LB's.....IMO


PEACE!!!

[Ziggy]

I love how FANS think they know more than COACHES....:tsk:Why, if that is the case, are they not coaching in the NFL....hmmmm could it be they don't know as much as they think they do.........:confused:

IMO the DL, 1 CB and the Safties are a worse problem than the LB's.....IMO


PEACE!!!

So now I stated that I know more than the coaches? :laugh: Once again, it's opinions. Have you ever stopped to think that Nate may be the best choice out of the MLB'ers on the team? That doesn't make him a good MLB.

[AlWilsonizKING]

i'm seeing a lot of people praising nate webster's play, including the announcers.i am!! yes, he forced a fumble. It was well downfield (as most of his tackles are) who cares if someone else made a tackle before he wouldn't need to takel them downfield, another player must have missed an assignment or a tackleand was a helmet to helmet hit which he will probably be fined for.so did you hate on john lynch when he would do the same???? he also got 1 sack. That was on a jailbreak blitz where we brought about 8 guys and he was the one unblocked. that's what a blitz is supposed to do....allow a free player to get at the qb...duh anyone see the qb sneak by gerrard on a ctitical 3rd down where the d-line actually stepped up and had him stuffed temporarily? He spun out and got the first down. If any of you have the game taped, go back and watch webster on that play. He's standing about a yard back with a thumb up his butt not even trying to get in on the play. If he even attempts to help out on the tackle, jacksonville doesn't get that first down. He has quickly become the most overrated player on this team. His tackle numbers are great because he makes a ton of tackles well downfield. so should he just stop tackling because it'll be downfield?? Maybe if someone on the team would make a takle before it got there hmmm long runs are usually coming right through the gaps that he should be plugging. His instincts are poor, his pass coverage is poor, and his tackling is poor. dre bly anyone???yes, the d-line is horrible too, but some help from the mlb position would be more than welcomed.

There goes the caps limit again..


PEACE!!!

[AlWilsonizKING]

So now I stated that I know more than the coaches? :laugh: Once again, it's opinions. Have you ever stopped to think that Nate may be the best choice out of the MLB'ers on the team? That doesn't make him a good MLB.


No I said you think it....:laugh: But a lot of fans were saying Niko was the best before the season started.......:rolleyes:.....the coaches don't seem to think so.


PEACE!!!

[broncofaninfla]

Honetsly, I feel the worst LB we have is Boss Bailey. Webster is just too damn inconsistant but Bailey is consistantly bad. I do think if we had ANY talent on the d line, our over all LB play would improve but unless we trade for a d linemen today we are going to watch the same duds blow the same plays for the remainder of this season.

[BroncoWave]

Haters, haters, haters.........I love how it's always 1 players fault for a loss.........go back and look at the game tape real close, you'll find a lot of players on any given play who are out of position, missing tackels, etc....get over the hate and see that the TEAM needs some work!!! One player doesn't make or break a team. By that reasoning, we go out and get a MLB all of our D's problems are solved.......YEAH RIGHT!!!!!


Keep it up NATE!!!!



PEACE!!!

Um, you're the only person who said that? :confused:

[BroncoWave]

No I said you think it....:laugh: But a lot of fans were saying Niko was the best before the season started.......:rolleyes:.....the coaches don't seem to think so.


PEACE!!!

So I guess fans aren't allowed to have opinions since they aren't coaches? :coffee:

[Traveler]

Honetsly, I feel the worst LB we have is Boss Bailey. Webster is just too damn inconsistant but Bailey is consistantly bad. I do think if we had ANY talent on the d line, our over all LB play would improve but unless we trade for a d linemen today we are going to watch the same duds blow the same plays for the remainder of this season.

How so? Maybe we aren't watching the same games. Boss has actually been one of our more consistent LB's. And he actually wraps up when he tackles. Unless, of course, I've missed something. Webster is the weak link.

His supposed attempt at tackling (going high for the kill shot instead of driving through and wrapping up) MJD near the goalline was pathetic.

[Ziggy]

How so? Maybe we aren't watching the same games. Boss has actually been one of our more consistent LB's. And he actually wraps up when he tackles. Unless, of course, I've missed something. Webster is the weak link.

His supposed attempt at tackling (going high for the kill shot instead of driving through and wrapping up) MJD near the goalline was pathetic.

I've actually been very impressed with Boss when he can stay on the field. He's outstanding in coverage and tackles well.

[Lonestar]

I will echo whoever said it," just because you are making a tackle after 4-8 yards doth not make you a great MLB"..

While Al Wilson was not a great tackler he rarely hit them from behind..

He seemed to at least slow them down with a great hit.. Slowed them enough for others to come in and finish it off.

Nate does not seem to be that guy.. can't remember many if any tackles behind the LOS.. for that matter with in a yard of it..

Now perhaps he has I just do not remember any of them..

[Ziggy]

I will echo whoever said it," just because you are making a tackle after 4-8 yards doth not make you a great MLB"..

While Al Wilson was not a great tackler he rarely hit them from behind..

He seemed to at least slow them down with a great hit.. Slowed them enough for others to come in and finish it off.

Nate does not seem to be that guy.. can't remember many if any tackles behind the LOS.. for that matter with in a yard of it..

Now perhaps he has I just do not remember any of them..

Some people around here get more caught up in the numbers than what is actually going on on the field. If you record the games and watch them again, you'll see that Nate is missing his gaps on a consistent basis. The main job of a MLB is to hit the (correct) gap quickly on running plays, and he just isn't most of the time. If you go back and watch the long runs against Denver this season, you'll see 1 of 2 things. Nate is either out of position because he read the play wrong or too late, or he just plain missed the tackle. It doesn't help that the Dline is being manhandled at the same time.

If anyone has the Jacksonville game taped, go back and watch the QB sneak by Gerard on a critical 3rd down. Nate's reaction on that play more or less sums up his overall play and reaction time this season IMO.

[LRtagger]

Some people around here get more caught up in the numbers than what is actually going on on the field. If you record the games and watch them again, you'll see that Nate is missing his gaps on a consistent basis. The main job of a MLB is to hit the (correct) gap quickly on running plays, and he just isn't most of the time. If you go back and watch the long runs against Denver this season, you'll see 1 of 2 things. Nate is either out of position because he read the play wrong or too late, or he just plain missed the tackle. It doesn't help that the Dline is being manhandled at the same time.

If anyone has the Jacksonville game taped, go back and watch the QB sneak by Gerard on a critical 3rd down. Nate's reaction on that play more or less sums up his overall play and reaction time this season IMO.


I think that is where the debate begins. Nate is not lacking skill. He is a pretty solid tackler and has speed for a MLB. His problem is smarts and game instinct. He very rarely is in a position to make a play. He seems to always miss his gaps and has to pursue the runner from behind.

I am with JR in that I can't remember any plays this year where Webster read a play from the snap, hit the correct gap, and stood up the runner at the LOS. That is the bread and butter of a MLB and what they are paid to do. Webster hasn't shown that he can do that.

[turftoad]

I will echo whoever said it," just because you are making a tackle after 4-8 yards doth not make you a great MLB"..

While Al Wilson was not a great tackler he rarely hit them from behind..

He seemed to at least slow them down with a great hit.. Slowed them enough for others to come in and finish it off.

Nate does not seem to be that guy.. can't remember many if any tackles behind the LOS.. for that matter with in a yard of it..

Now perhaps he has I just do not remember any of them..

Exactly, Nate doesn't plug the gap of fill the whole. His tackles come from behind after the RB has already gotten through the gap/hole.

[Traveler]

Exactly, Nate doesn't plug the gap of fill the whole. His tackles come from behind after the RB has already gotten through the gap/hole.

Speaking of tackling, didn't anyone see the Fred Taylor run near the end the game where he had like 4-5 guys wrapped around him and he still pushed them all back for a 3-5 yards gain?

Know why he could do that? No one thought to wrap up his legs.

Just sayin'...

[Lonestar]

Exactly, Nate doesn't plug the gap of fill the whole. His tackles come from behind after the RB has already gotten through the gap/hole.

Almost anyone can tackle from behind you take their legs out and unless they kick free, they are going down and usually with a nice 4-15 yard run..

Our DL stinks IMO and until that is addressed I do not see a great MLB being a lot of difference.. Might make a few plays but when you have most of the OLINE at the second level pushing LB's out of the way..

The DL has to sustain their block and every once in a while needs to keep two OLINE guys busy.. Right now we do not have those kinds of player.. Perhaps Powell can help IF/WHEN he gets back into the game..

[GEM]

Some people around here get more caught up in the numbers than what is actually going on on the field. If you record the games and watch them again, you'll see that Nate is missing his gaps on a consistent basis. The main job of a MLB is to hit the (correct) gap quickly on running plays, and he just isn't most of the time. If you go back and watch the long runs against Denver this season, you'll see 1 of 2 things. Nate is either out of position because he read the play wrong or too late, or he just plain missed the tackle. It doesn't help that the Dline is being manhandled at the same time.

If anyone has the Jacksonville game taped, go back and watch the QB sneak by Gerard on a critical 3rd down. Nate's reaction on that play more or less sums up his overall play and reaction time this season IMO.

I guess everyone missed that stat in the 3rd quarter where Jax had 8 plays with an average of 15.4 yds per touch. :tsk:

When the horrible DLine can stop a qb sneak, but the LB's fail to stop the push to the side there's more than just issues with the Dline.

[GEM]

Speaking of tackling, didn't anyone see the Fred Taylor run near the end the game where he had like 4-5 guys wrapped around him and he still pushed them all back for a 3-5 yards gain?

Know why he could do that? No one thought to wrap up his legs.

Just sayin'...

I guess they don't get that without legs a RUNNING back can't go anywhere. The D must think that shoulder and pad hits take out what a running back relies on.

[Broncolingus]

I don't think our LBs are our problem on D. Could we use an upgrade? Sure, but we better upgrade our DLine before we start worrying about our LBs.

Hear, hear!

I agree Webster isn't going to be mistaken for Al Wilson, but I don't think he's a MAJOR liability unlike ANYONE for Denver who has DL, DT, or DE in their titles...

If he still sucks after the D-line get's to be decent, then time to replace...

[horsepig]

I agree wholeheartedly with Ziggy. Webster just plain sucks as a Mike. Don't call me a hater or say I think I'm smarter than the coaches either. These coaches are the ones responsible for the ridiculous tackling techniques on this team! Is there absolutely no emphasis on fundamentals in the NFL anymore? Heck, pay Champ a little more and have HIM teach the coaches how to teach other guys to actually tackle someone! People on another thread the other day were asking for Woodyard to play a little in the middle on game day (why not?) but felt he's too light (230-240 if you believe the Broncos), Mike Singletary was 5' 11"/230 lbs.

[Lonestar]

I agree wholeheartedly with Ziggy. Webster just plain sucks as a Mike. Don't call me a hater or say I think I'm smarter than the coaches either. These coaches are the ones responsible for the ridiculous tackling techniques on this team! Is there absolutely no emphasis on fundamentals in the NFL anymore? Heck, pay Champ a little more and have HIM teach the coaches how to teach other guys to actually tackle someone! People on another thread the other day were asking for Woodyard to play a little in the middle on game day (why not?) but felt he's too light (230-240 if you believe the Broncos), Mike Singletary was 5' 11"/230 lbs.


I think your wrong about Singeltary, his son was in my daughters class in grade school I remember seeing him several times at PTA things and him and his wife, I looked up to and I'm 5'11"..

Unless he was wearing 3" lifts I think your data is incorrect.. and 230 12 years ago was a pretty big MLB.. Not the biggest but still on the bigger side..

[topscribe]

I think your wrong about Singeltary, his son was in my daughters class in grade school I remember seeing him several times at PTA things and him and his wife, I looked up to and I'm 5'11"..

Unless he was wearing 3" lifts I think your data is incorrect.. and 230 12 years ago was a pretty big MLB.. Not the biggest but still on the bigger side..

NFL has Singletary as 6-0, 230.

But if you saw him in person, I'll go with you.

-----

[Lonestar]

NFL has Singletary as 6-0, 230.

But if you saw him in person, I'll go with you.

-----

I looked it up also, but both mom and dad were IMO well over 6' while I may think I have a big head. I generally judge height by looking them in the eyes. I was looking at his mustache when I looked at him so had to adjust my eyes much higher..

One of my best friends was 6'5" and he was not that tall 6'2 or 6'3".. But then he might have been wearing lifts I did not think to look..


Not sure what happened to his kid as he would be a sophomore in college now but he was one big kid.. Him and My daughter were the tallest in the class so they played basketball one on one with each other.. Might be why she did so well later in HS..