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View Full Version : How Concerned are you RIGHT NOW?



MasterShake
10-12-2008, 07:21 PM
6 games in and the Broncos are at the top of the AFC West with a 4-2 record. There's been the good, the bad, and the ugly. So, how concerned are you at this point? Me? I still feel pretty good. Once we tighten up our turnovers the complexions of games change. I think the D is playing just good enough as long as our offense holds up to its end. How bout the rest of you?

gobroncsnv
10-12-2008, 07:27 PM
Can't say I like our current trend... I was more amazed that we stopped Jax on the drive before our last TD. Who knew?

Our offense needs to relearn how to finish again, and while the D is better than earlier in the season, we don't have near enough crucial 3 and outs in our bag of tricks yet.

I didn't vote in the poll, as some parts of each bullet are accurate. In my heart, would have loved to have been able to pull the trigger on the first one.

MasterShake
10-12-2008, 07:32 PM
Can't say I like our current trend... I was more amazed that we stopped Jax on the drive before our last TD. Who knew?

Our offense needs to relearn how to finish again, and while the D is better than earlier in the season, we don't have near enough crucial 3 and outs in our bag of tricks yet.

I agree. But for a team supposedly one year removed from "rebuilding" you have to love the direction we are heading. This loss sucks, but simple things like no turnovers are something that is very fixable. I hope. We don't give the Jags those gifts today it would have been a breezy win. 10 points off turnovers and we lost by 7. JAX is a tough team playing for their season and they deserve all the credit for their win, but I firmly believe that minus the Marshall fumble we go ahead for a TD and this game is VERY different. And yes, I not only have orange colored glasses, but I had orange laser eye surgery so that sh** is permanent.

gobroncsnv
10-12-2008, 07:39 PM
something else I left out, don't you just WISH that Royal and Scheff could have played today? Jackson dressed out, but did Jay even look at him once today?
I don't think we miss all that much when Jackson is in for Scheff, they are pretty much clones, Tony may have the edge...
Injuries are part of the game, and all, but you just wonder if our man of the Royal bloodline could have made a difference. Ya gotta play with who suits up, but that little tidbit does give cause for some hope as well.

Tned
10-12-2008, 07:44 PM
I would have voted for something in between the "description" of 'a little' and 'not at all'.

I am only slightly concerned, as I think we are going to be in fine shape. Our defense did some good things today, while our offense was horrid. The D didn't play good for 60 minutes, but they did make key stops during the game. However, the sting of punts and turnovers by the offense is troubling.

I am more concerned about Jay being very inaccurate the last few games, and the offense turning the ball over multiple times in two of the last three games.

I know he lost a lot of receivers, but two weeks ago and again today, Jay has tried to force the ball into Marshall far to often.

DenBronx
10-12-2008, 07:45 PM
if we beat the pats then we go into the bye at 5-2. not bad and better than most expected. id like to see us make a trade with the rams, lions or whoever to bring in some pass rush. if jay and marshall wouldnt have made so many mistakes then we might have won this one and thats WITHOUT wr's #2,#3 and #4. we had no fire power and the jags knew cutler was going to have tunnel vision with marshall.

pittman looked like the one cut back that we have been needing. pittman needs to be the starter and selvin the scat back. man i wish alridge wouldnt have got hurt.

Nomad
10-12-2008, 07:47 PM
I figured a 9-7 season! Offense has alot of work to do and defense more! Second half of the season isn't looking as easy as we thought!

gobroncsnv
10-12-2008, 07:48 PM
Right there with ya DBronx, IF we get the right guy and not have to give up Lodo to do it...

Scarface
10-12-2008, 07:51 PM
Concerned about what? We're not going to a Super Bowl. I just want to see us get healthy and continue to develop our offense. The D is going to take another year or two before we'll be ready to compete for the whole enchilada.

Skinny
10-12-2008, 07:51 PM
Between a little and alot.

While we don't have much choice but to lean on the offense to win games for us, we simply can't expect then to do that week in and week out. That's alot of pressure and alot to ask.

At some point, defensively, we're going to have to stop somebody. Either the run or the pass and make teams more one dimensional than they are playing us right now.

Opponents have way too much play in their playbook and can pretty much choose any play they want through-out the course of the game. We can't sit back and let offenses dictate the tempo of the game. They are eating us up.

Improve at defending one or the other and the defense can atleast start to improve somewhere. I'm concerned/affraid that asking this defense to fix it all at once is asking too much.

LoyalSoldier
10-12-2008, 07:57 PM
I figured a 9-7 season! Offense has alot of work to do and defense more! Second half of the season isn't looking as easy as we thought!


The first half wasn't easy either. Chargers, Saints, Bucs, and Jags are not push over teams.

Northman
10-12-2008, 08:00 PM
Im not concerned. Although i expect to make the playoffs i dont really expect much beyond that. Turnovers have really plagued us so far this year and if we can manage to straighten that out then we have a solid shot to go far. But, obviously we have a lot more work to do on defense and such. Tough loss but i thats how it goes.

Nomad
10-12-2008, 08:06 PM
The first half wasn't easy either. Chargers, Saints, Bucs, and Jags are not push over teams.

Never said they were! I do think the Raiders game was a 'fluke' though probably would hae won at this time but not as convincingly! Watching the teams we play in the second half of the season, they aren't the 'pushovers' many would think! make your own evaluation LS, this is mine and I haven't been too far off this season!

Northman
10-12-2008, 08:08 PM
Never said they were! I do think the Raiders game was a 'fluke' though probably would hae won at this time but not as convincingly! Watching the teams we play in the second half of the season, they aren't the 'pushovers' many would think! make your own evaluation LS, this is mine and I haven't been too far off this season!

Dude, the Raiders game wasnt a fluke. The Raiders just simply made more mistakes than us.

Dortoh
10-12-2008, 08:20 PM
something is missing right now.

IMO Jay and BMarsh are getting to big for their pants. Trying to do too much period. Settle down and they would be better off.

BMarsh is taking to many chances trying to make the big play

Jay is way to confident with his arm.

Northman
10-12-2008, 08:21 PM
something is missing right now.

IMO Jay and BMarsh are getting to big for their pants. Trying to do too much period. Settle down and they would be better off.

BMarsh is taking to many chances trying to make the big play

Jay is way to confident with his arm.


Yep, and both are VERY sloppy with the ball. Both are young and can grow out of it but i hope Shanahan is smart enough to recognize this now and try to get it rectified before it becomes a longterm problem.

Spider
10-12-2008, 08:22 PM
I didnt vote , my option wasnt on there , yeah the D didnt play well but the D made stops when they had to , but inexperience on offense really showed today , We got some great players on O that faced some adversity today , Royal , Stokley , Scheff = Banged up , Cutler went to his security blanket aka Marshall , it wasnt there everytime for him today , Martinez put up one hellva fight today , but he just isnt the playmaker ..... This will only be bad if Cutler doesnt watch game tapes and make adjustments .....Lack of depth and not understanding what to do about it got Cutler today ......

honz
10-12-2008, 08:23 PM
Honestly, I didn't expect us to be 4-2 at this point so I'm not really worried. Our offense was missing 3 key receivers today and we turned the ball over a lot on top of it. Our defense is never going to dominate a game in its current form, but I think they have done some good things the past couple weeks.

Spider
10-12-2008, 08:25 PM
I have to disagree with the take on B marsh and cutler trying to do too much .... I want that kind of fire in a player , Granted they need to cut down on the bone headed mistakes , but let em play with Passion , soon they will learn to control it ..........

Npba900
10-12-2008, 08:25 PM
Can't say I like our current trend... I was more amazed that we stopped Jax on the drive before our last TD. Who knew?

Our offense needs to relearn how to finish again, and while the D is better than earlier in the season, we don't have near enough crucial 3 and outs in our bag of tricks yet.

I didn't vote in the poll, as some parts of each bullet are accurate. In my heart, would have loved to have been able to pull the trigger on the first one.

Denver under Shanahan's tenure has been caught in a catch-22 position when it comes to the Defense.The problem is four fold:

1) Denver has won on avg of 10 games per season over Shanahan's 14 year tenure as head coach. Winning 10 games per year, the Broncos draft in the lower middle to low rounds and the best talent for defensive linemen are already drafted (Long gone).

2) Denver has a problem scouting, evaluating, drafting and developing their defensive players. Anyone notice how teams like NYG, Eagles, Steelers, and Ravens all seem to have aggressive, talented, quick, agile defensive players. These teams seem to reload every 6 or 8 years, yet Denver continues down the same road of mediocrity....year after year.

3) Denver has failed to hire a proven Defensive coordinator who has a track record of fielding a top 10 Defense.

4) Denver has failed to hire a Personnel Director that can build a to 10 Defense.

Pat Bowlen holds the key to turning around the Defense. Bowlen has got to take the entire Defensive responsibilities away from Shanahan and start the painful process of hiring a defensive architecture along the same lines of the Steelers, Ravens, Giants, and Eagles.

Shanahan will have a lousy Defense in Denver until he retires, moves on to coach another team or is fired. Over the last 14 years, Shanahan is used the same defensive philosophy from hiring little known Defensive coord. to piece milling and throwing together defensive players hoping they will be functional enough to allow his high powered offense to lead the way to victory. It ain't working.

No disrespect to coach Shanahan, but the reality is, Shanahan is not known for his defensive acumen. Shanahan is second to none when it comes to offensive schemes and game planning, and evaluating and drafting the offensive personnel to execute his offense.

Npba900
10-12-2008, 08:28 PM
Honestly, I didn't expect us to be 4-2 at this point so I'm not really worried. Our offense was missing 3 key receivers today and we turned the ball over a lot on top of it. Our defense is never going to dominate a game in its current form, but I think they have done some good things the past couple weeks.

Yep I agree. This defense can't protect leads nor win games by themselves. All the pressure is on the offense. When the offense isn't executing and when the offense is committing turn overs....simply put, its highly likely that the Broncos will host another lost.

Dortoh
10-12-2008, 08:36 PM
I can let go of Bmarsh effort but Jay is pushing throws into no mans land period relax jay let the game come to him.

Mike
10-12-2008, 08:43 PM
I would vote not concerned...but the description doesn't fit. I am not concerned, because I expect there to be the games like today. They are a young team. When you expect the ups and downs it is easy to not be concerned. ;)

As far as the defense goes...I expect them to give up points on every drive. They just have too little talent to have much expectations from.

Ziggy
10-12-2008, 09:04 PM
I don't know why, but I get completely frustrated during games even though I knew we were coming into this season with a horrible defense. If it were the scheme alone, it would be one thing. The problem is, as Mike states, we lack overall talent on D, so it's not going to get much better if at all during the season. I need to sit back and enjoy the emerging young stars on offense, and quit wanting to thow my TV through the window when I watch the D. This team has a lot of great things going on on the offensive side of the ball. They are making the kind of mistakes that a young team makes, (turnovers, dropped balls) but these things will improve as the season progresses.

Northman
10-12-2008, 09:10 PM
I need to sit back and enjoy the emerging young stars on offense, and quit wanting to thow my TV through the window when I watch the D.

And thats really what it comes down to. Sure, every loss hurts but we all have to remember that in a sense we are rebuilding with a lot of young talent. My only concern right now is i hope they are actually learning from their mistakes but right now the turnovers are happening to often.

Mike
10-12-2008, 09:32 PM
I don't know why, but I get completely frustrated during games even though I knew we were coming into this season with a horrible defense. If it were the scheme alone, it would be one thing. The problem is, as Mike states, we lack overall talent on D, so it's not going to get much better if at all during the season. I need to sit back and enjoy the emerging young stars on offense, and quit wanting to thow my TV through the window when I watch the D. This team has a lot of great things going on on the offensive side of the ball. They are making the kind of mistakes that a young team makes, (turnovers, dropped balls) but these things will improve as the season progresses.

I took a 3.5 mile run on the treadmill during the last quarter of the game today. It eased my frustrations considerably. ;)

hamrob
10-12-2008, 09:54 PM
I think we're average at best. Anyone who saw that interview with Cutler today in the pregame...heard him respond to the question...as to where he saw himself. He said...he's getting there...but it's going to take a couple more years. He said that he's about a 6 out of 10 right now.

I agree!

That's about how he looks to me. He's got all the talent in the world...but he doesn't know how to win games. yet.

My recommendation...keep studying...and watch alot of tape on that Elway guy!

He's got a long ways to go. For all of you...who are infatuated with jay...outside of the first two games he has played o.k. at best...and if not for a pathetic call by the officials...he would have lost the San Diego game as well.

He's a better than average QB....but I have to put him around the 10 spot at this point!

gobroncsnv
10-12-2008, 09:55 PM
The frustrating part is that I've been wanting us to get a better dline for about the past 8 years. We have our youth movement going on, but I think you need a mix of some seasoning in with them to get through the rough spots, so in that vein, I would advocate some better FA's on the D, along with maybe drafting 100% d next year, unless Torain doesn't show some promise after he takes some snaps. Our main problems on offense are injuries and lack of time in the saddle. On D, it's time we tried the talent side of it, given we've been through some famous (Rhodes, Bates) and infamous DC's, without much success. If you give almost any coach at this level something to build with, they can get a lot of things done.

hamrob
10-12-2008, 09:56 PM
I have to disagree with the take on B marsh and cutler trying to do too much .... I want that kind of fire in a player , Granted they need to cut down on the bone headed mistakes , but let em play with Passion , soon they will learn to control it ..........Sure let them play with passion...but how about their passion winning some games? That's two losess this season that fall directly on their shoulders!

The broncos have more fumbles this year...then any other team in the NFL! How many do Jay and BMarsh have?

Too damn many!!!

honz
10-12-2008, 10:35 PM
Sure let them play with passion...but how about their passion winning some games? That's two losess this season that fall directly on their shoulders!

The broncos have more fumbles this year...then any other team in the NFL! How many do Jay and BMarsh have?

Too damn many!!!
They have also won 4 games for us...just sayin'.

Broncolingus
10-12-2008, 11:42 PM
6 games in and the Broncos are at the top of the AFC West with a 4-2 record. There's been the good, the bad, and the ugly. So, how concerned are you at this point? Me? I still feel pretty good. Once we tighten up our turnovers the complexions of games change. I think the D is playing just good enough as long as our offense holds up to its end. How bout the rest of you?

blah, blah, blah....(not to you Master, just in general)

Same ole, same ole...

Denver is a team that will be fighting for a Wild Card by the 11th week and getting manhandled regularly in most games the second half of the season.

Jacksonville had a ******* defensive line that put the quash on Denver's offense big-time today which is why they won the game and slapped Denver around - IN THEIR OWN HOUSE NO LESS - like a bunch of sissy bitches.

...and - as usual - David "done in two years" Gerrard looked like the second coming of Tom Brady.

GET A FRIGGIN DEFENSIVE LINE DENVER IF YOU WANT TO COMPETE FOR DIVISION TITLES AND IN THE POST SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shank
10-12-2008, 11:57 PM
blah, blah, blah....(not to you Master, just in general)

Same ole, same ole...

Denver is a team that will be fighting for a Wild Card by the 11th week and getting manhandled regularly in most games the second half of the season.

Jacksonville had a ******* defensive line that put the quash on Denver's offense big-time today which is why they won the game and slapped Denver around - IN THEIR OWN HOUSE NO LESS - like a bunch of sissy bitches.

...and - as usual - David "done in two years" Gerrard looked like the second coming of Tom Brady.

GET A FRIGGIN DEFENSIVE LINE DENVER IF YOU WANT TO COMPETE FOR DIVISION TITLES AND IN THE POST SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

doom and gloom?

we averaged 5.7 yards per rush attempt and didn't allow a sack.

without the turnovers, we would have won convincingly, even without 3 of our top 4 receiving weapons for most of the game.

without mojo's long run, we held a strong jax rushing game to 3.3 yards per rush. our defense will be very solid if we can eliminate the big plays.

pass defense is a concern, they picked apart our zone with ease.

Broncolingus
10-13-2008, 12:00 AM
doom and gloom?

we averaged 5.7 yards per rush attempt and didn't allow a sack.

without the turnovers, we would have won convincingly, even without 3 of our top 4 receiving weapons for most of the game.

without mojo's long run, we held a strong jax rushing game to 3.3 yards per rush.

pass defense is a concern, they picked apart our zone with ease.

I see...

...so, today was a good day?

Lots of positives in a home, conference game, loss against a team that everyone (vice some folks in northern Florida) ALL thought Denver should've won?

shank
10-13-2008, 12:02 AM
I see...

...so, today was a good day?

Lots of positives in a home, conference game, loss against a team that everyone (vice some folks in northern Florida) ALL thought Denver should win?

blah, blah, blah... ;)

no, it wasn't a good day, but without the mistakes, we would have won easily. we didn't get manhandled like you said in your post... for the most part, we actually matched jax's physicality, which was a welcome sight IMO.

we beat our selves today, we didn't get beat. beating yourself is fixable (in theory).

Broncolingus
10-13-2008, 12:07 AM
blah, blah, blah... ;)

no, it wasn't a good day, but without the mistakes, we would have won easily. we didn't get manhandled like you said in your post... for the most part, we actually matched jax's physicality, which was a welcome sight IMO.

we beat our selves today, we didn't get beat. beating yourself is fixable (in theory).

...thx for setting me straight.

I've now no doubt Denver will win the Division and be competitive in the Super Bowl.

I actually thought they LOST today to the Jags...

(...silly me...)

Lonestar
10-13-2008, 12:13 AM
Denver under Shanahan's tenure has been caught in a catch-22 position when it comes to the Defense.The problem is four fold:

1) Denver has won on avg of 10 games per season over Shanahan's 14 year tenure as head coach. Winning 10 games per year, the Broncos draft in the lower middle to low rounds and the best talent for defensive linemen are already drafted (Long gone).

2) Denver has a problem scouting, evaluating, drafting and developing their defensive players. Anyone notice how teams like NYG, Eagles, Steelers, and Ravens all seem to have aggressive, talented, quick, agile defensive players. These teams seem to reload every 6 or 8 years, yet Denver continues down the same road of mediocrity....year after year.

3) Denver has failed to hire a proven Defensive coordinator who has a track record of fielding a top 10 Defense.

4) Denver has failed to hire a Personnel Director that can build a to 10 Defense.

Pat Bowlen holds the key to turning around the Defense. Bowlen has got to take the entire Defensive responsibilities away from Shanahan and start the painful process of hiring a defensive architecture along the same lines of the Steelers, Ravens, Giants, and Eagles.

Shanahan will have a lousy Defense in Denver until he retires, moves on to coach another team or is fired. Over the last 14 years, Shanahan is used the same defensive philosophy from hiring little known Defensive coord. to piece milling and throwing together defensive players hoping they will be functional enough to allow his high powered offense to lead the way to victory. It ain't working.

No disrespect to coach Shanahan, but the reality is, Shanahan is not known for his defensive acumen. Shanahan is second to none when it comes to offensive schemes and game planning, and evaluating and drafting the offensive personnel to execute his offense.


wow get you out of P&R and your head is screwed on straight.. who would have thunk it..;)

Mikey has had at least TWO qualified DC on this squad that in the case of Ray Rhodes let because IMO mikey was being an al davis trying to micro manage the defense. the guy was proven winner in PHILLY in the defensive side ..

Same goes for Jim Bates a proven winner regardless if some of us agree with his scheme.. IMO Pat was a prime mover in getting Bates in DEN.. I did not think that mikey wanted him all that much as he had already made slowick the DC..
I think mikey went along with it to prove a point to Pat that his way was better.. Gave Bates the players he wanted, but did not stay out of the mix and that caused confusion in the ranks..
Much like al davis does tells the player to hang tight and did not allow Bate complete authority to give his defense a chance to root..

Now we will be going through another D guy unless the troop rally and turn slowick into a genius and who here really thinks that is going to happen..

Your absolutely correct about mikey believing he can win with a great Offense and a half assed D..

The offense is much stronger than I thought it would be with all the youth on the OLINE.. I though after the glowing reports from TC that our D was fixed with Moss, Doom, Thomas and Robertson being the anchor...

Now I see that Thomas and Robertson when on the field may be worth keeping.. Doom is nothing but a pass rush specialist and Moss may not survive the bye week..

Both of these two guys had proven wining Defenses prior to coming to Denver.. The players in MIA wanted him as their next Head coach.. that speaks volumes.. IMO

But he is gone and we are doomed IMO to be a great team with a mediocre record this year because of an ego..

I originally thought we would be 2-5 at the bye.. 7-9 overall I might not be to far off if they do not find a way to shore up the defense..

Donning my asbestos suit..

shank
10-13-2008, 12:16 AM
...thx for setting me straight.

I've now no doubt Denver will win the Division and be competitive in the Super Bowl.

I actually thought they LOST today to the Jags...

(...silly me...)

when did unending pessimism become synonymous with truth?


put words in my mouth, but then go back and find the truth in what i actually wrote.

Broncolingus
10-13-2008, 12:19 AM
wow get you out of P&R and your head is screwed on straight.. who would have thunk it..;)

Mikey has had at least TWO qualified DC on this squad that in the case of Ray Rhodes let because IMO mikey was being an al davis trying to micro manage the defense. the guy was proven winner in PHILLY in the defensive side ..

Same goes for Jim Bates a proven winner regardless if some of us agree with his scheme.. IMO Pat was a prime mover in getting Bates in DEN.. I did not think that mikey wanted him all that much as he had already made slowick the DC..
I think mikey went along with it to prove a point to Pat that his way was better.. Gave Bates the players he wanted, but did not stay out of the mix and that caused confusion in the ranks..
Much like al davis does tells the player to hang tight and did not allow Bate complete authority to give his defense a chance to root..

Now we will be going through another D guy unless the troop rally and turn slowick into a genius and who here really thinks that is going to happen..

Your absolutely correct about mikey believing he can win with a great Offense and a half assed D..

The offense is much stronger than I thought it would be with all the youth on the OLINE.. I though after the glowing reports from TC that our D was fixed with Moss, Doom, Thomas and Robertson being the anchor...

Now I see that Thomas and Robertson when on the field may be worth keeping.. Doom is nothing but a pass rush specialist and Moss may not survive the bye week..

Both of these two guys had proven wining Defenses prior to coming to Denver.. The players in MIA wanted him as their next Head coach.. that speaks volumes.. IMO

But he is gone and we are doomed IMO to be a great team with a mediocre record this year because of an ego..

I originally thought we would be 2-5 at the bye.. 7-9 overall I might not be to far off if they do not find a way to shore up the defense..

Donning my asbestos suit..

GP's...both Nbpa and Jrwiz...

Get four solid defensive linemen and we're not having this discussion and the Jag's are going home holding their (bloody) noses...

Spider
10-13-2008, 01:12 AM
Sure let them play with passion...but how about their passion winning some games? That's two losess this season that fall directly on their shoulders!

The broncos have more fumbles this year...then any other team in the NFL! How many do Jay and BMarsh have?

Too damn many!!!

So now they dont have any passion to win ? the loss falls on their shoulders alone ?
where in the hell is that eye roll smiley ?
Just leave em be , they play they learn .........

dogfish
10-13-2008, 01:37 AM
blah, blah, blah....(not to you Master, just in general)

Same ole, same ole...



Jacksonville had a ******* defensive line that put the quash on Denver's offense big-time today which is why they won the game and slapped Denver around - IN THEIR OWN HOUSE NO LESS - like a bunch of sissy bitches.




lingus, i agree with you 1,000% that we desperately need an NFL-caliber D-line. . . ask jrwiz, or anyone from the mania board (or i can even show you links to old posts)-- i've been begging for an improved DL for years now, actually ever since we let berry walk. . .

however, i think you're reaching when you say the jag's D-line bitch slapped us-- if you want to say that we would have played them much better with a good D-line of our own you'll get no argument from me, but i most certainly didn't see their DL doing anything special against us. . . IMO they made a grand total of two real impact plays all day, and one of them was only because cutler was careless with the ball. . . they didn't play that well against our running game-- pittman found room to run almost every time he got the ball, as shank said he averaged over 5 yard per carry. . . they produced zero sacks, and didn't get consistent pressure on cutler-- he had plenty of time in the pocket. . . their DL didn't have a thing in the world to do with our inability to stop the run or pressure garrard, they didn't have anything to do with marshall fumbling in the red zone, and they didn't have anything to do with shanahan forgoing a very makeable field goal to go for it on 4th down. . . they did stop our predictable running play, but i put that one on more on bates than the OL-- why not call something like a play-action bootleg with a run-pass option, instead of going right at the strength of their defense when it's exactly what they're likely to be looking for?


i couldn't agree more that our own DL looks like crap and badly needs an infusion of talent, but i don't agree at all that our OL was outplayed by their DL today. . .

ApaOps5
10-13-2008, 01:40 AM
I voted OMG. Only because I am being a smart ass. As this team is way beyond where I thought they would be and am pretty pleased they only had 2 horrid ass games.

dogfish
10-13-2008, 02:00 AM
I voted OMG. Only because I am being a smart ass. As this team is way beyond where I thought they would be and am pretty pleased they only had 2 horrid ass games.

the improvement from last year's team is obvious. . . what we do for the rest of '08 is very much up in the air at this point, but going forward we at least have something to build on with the progress we've made on offense, and a much clearer idea of what we still need to fix-- as opposed to where we were at the end of last year, where EVERYTHING needed fixed. . . :doh:

i think it's pretty clear that adding talent on the DL and at safety have to be our biggest priorities over the offseason, with running back and middle linebacker also being positions that would probably benefit from some more talent as well. . . i still haven't completely given up on moss, and i think doom would be more effective in a part-time role-- thomas has shown flashes this year, and will hopefully continue to improve. . . robertson and peterson aren't terrible as rotational tackles. . . we've got a solid group of OLBs, and webster's play has picked up some the past two games. . .

for as bad as they've looked most of this year, i don't feel like the alleged defense is unfixable. . . it looks like there's going to be some legit talent in this year's safety class, and competent veteran safeties aren't usually that hard to find in free agency. . . it shouldn't be that tough to find someone who can improve on the stiffs we're rolling out there now. . . maybe barrett even develops into a player-- he has the physical tools if he can put it together mentally. . . i'm hoping he earns a call-up from the practice squad at some point this year. . .

if, IF we can find one strong DT and/or a DE that can get some pressure as well as playing the run well, i think that could go a long ways towards making us more competitive on that side of the ball, and if the O can stop fumbling and play to their potential every week it's not like we need to be the 2000 ravens to make a deep playoff run. . . i was as disappointed as anyone else with the loss, and i'd kill to see us get it together for a run this year while the AFC is so wide open, but regardless i definitely feel better about the team than i did at this point over the past few years. . .

broncophan
10-13-2008, 02:35 AM
well.....4-3 going into the bye week is about where I thought the broncos would be.......yes,,,,,I think the broncos will lose at NE.

Sadly.....I think the broncos "peaked" in week 1.....but I hope I am wrong.

A young offense that is going to continue to make mistakes combined with a struggling defense, and a team that has played half of its home games already.....

another strong start at the beginning of the season......headed toward 8-8 or 9-7.......concerned.... but not surprised.

Ziggy
10-13-2008, 03:29 AM
the improvement from last year's team is obvious. . . what we do for the rest of '08 is very much up in the air at this point, but going forward we at least have something to build on with the progress we've made on offense, and a much clearer idea of what we still need to fix-- as opposed to where we were at the end of last year, where EVERYTHING needed fixed. . . :doh:

i think it's pretty clear that adding talent on the DL and at safety have to be our biggest priorities over the offseason, with running back and middle linebacker also being positions that would probably benefit from some more talent as well. . . i still haven't completely given up on moss, and i think doom would be more effective in a part-time role-- thomas has shown flashes this year, and will hopefully continue to improve. . . robertson and peterson aren't terrible as rotational tackles. . . we've got a solid group of OLBs, and webster's play has picked up some the past two games. . .

for as bad as they've looked most of this year, i don't feel like the alleged defense is unfixable. . . it looks like there's going to be some legit talent in this year's safety class, and competent veteran safeties aren't usually that hard to find in free agency. . . it shouldn't be that tough to find someone who can improve on the stiffs we're rolling out there now. . . maybe barrett even develops into a player-- he has the physical tools if he can put it together mentally. . . i'm hoping he earns a call-up from the practice squad at some point this year. . .

if, IF we can find one strong DT and/or a DE that can get some pressure as well as playing the run well, i think that could go a long ways towards making us more competitive on that side of the ball, and if the O can stop fumbling and play to their potential every week it's not like we need to be the 2000 ravens to make a deep playoff run. . . i was as disappointed as anyone else with the loss, and i'd kill to see us get it together for a run this year while the AFC is so wide open, but regardless i definitely feel better about the team than i did at this point over the past few years. . .


Dog, good post as usual. I agree with just about everything in it. When you say that you don't feel like this D is unfixable, I assume you mean in the offseason. I don't see it getting any better until we get some more talent in there, and it isn't going to happen this season.

As far as the offensive line goes, they were outstanding today once again. They protected Cutler well, gave up no sacks and very few pressures, and despite what what Broncolingus said, they flat outplayed Jacksonvilles D-line today. I have no idea what game he was watching.

Just a side note, can anyone tell me the last time we had 12 rookies on the roster? I forgot just how young this team is now, especially on offense.

dogfish
10-13-2008, 04:03 AM
When you say that you don't feel like this D is unfixable, I assume you mean in the offseason. I don't see it getting any better until we get some more talent in there, and it isn't going to happen this season.




yes, that's definitely what i meant. . . .

SmilinAssasSin27
10-13-2008, 07:38 AM
Concerned about what? We're not going to a Super Bowl. I just want to see us get healthy and continue to develop our offense. The D is going to take another year or two before we'll be ready to compete for the whole enchilada.

My exact thoughts.

I am actually friggin giddy that we are 4-2 and ready to face a down New England team. Like Scar said, we were never true contenders for the SB. With all the comments I read and what I see from the games, there is 1 overriding factor in our 2 losses vs the 4 wins...TURNOVERS.

Traveler
10-13-2008, 07:47 AM
something is missing right now.

IMO Jay and BMarsh are getting to big for their pants. Trying to do too much period. Settle down and they would be better off.

BMarsh is taking to many chances trying to make the big play

Jay is way to confident with his arm.

Couldn't have said it better. Jay needs to shut the **** up and focus on taking care of the football. As for Brandon, he needs to realize there are times you just have to take what the defense gives you. That fumble was costly.

As for the defense, they gave up over 400 yards to the 22nd rank offense. For lack of a better term, they SUCK! They still can't tackle worth a damn. I can recall two plays where if they would wrap up instead of going for a kill shot, they stop J-Ville from possibly scoring.

Nate Webster trying to tackle MJD up high and the last TD to the TE Lewis with both McCree and Manuel going up high for kill shot and hitting each other. Piss poor tackling technique.

Things don't look good for the remainder of the season.

BroncoJoe
10-13-2008, 08:34 AM
Thought this article was appropriate for this thread:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10706300


The big chill is back for the Broncos, and like a drizzle that covered the stadium in a wet, gray blanket on a dreary Sunday, their 24-17 loss to Jacksonville felt bad to the bone.

Has the NFL figured out this team and revealed Denver to be a fraud as a serious championship contender? Again?

In a somber dressing room, the consternation level on the face of Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey seemed uncommonly high for a star on a first-place club.

"I'm just frustrated with the loss," he said.

But Bailey knows the score and can see the bigger picture.

There's an irrefutable rule in the pro game: It's not how you start. It's how you finish. Teams that mess with the hard truth get messed up.

Wearing a Barack Obama for president T-shirt, Bailey paused as he headed to the locker-room exit and gave thoughtful consideration to this question: Why is it that an NFL team that looks nearly unbeatable in September has no guarantee of being a contender in December?

"It's the video," Bailey said. "It's all on the film. People get a chance to study and see what you're doing. What's been successful, all of a sudden opponents are picking up on it, and maybe you don't react. A lot of teams get caught up in what they're doing so much that they don't have a backup plan."

In a league where every nuance and flaw of a team is dissected in super-slow motion by video analysts, there are no secrets that last forever.

"I've seen teams go 4-1 and finish 6-10. I've seen that before in this league," Bailey said. It was not a dire prediction for these Broncos, but a friendly warning for his teammates.

"We've got to take care what's in front of us," he said.

In recent years, teams coached by Mike Shanahan have developed a nasty habit of starting hot and finishing cold.

The pattern is undeniable.

Since 2002, the Broncos' record in September has been an impressive, hype-building 18-7.

During the same period, their record in the final month of the regular season has been a mediocre, momentum-killing 16-13.

The lone time Denver has won a playoff game in the previous six seasons was also the only time the Broncos had a better record in December than September.

Coincidence? I don't think so.

The disturbing trend is not a condemnation of Shanahan as a master of X's and O's.

Look at this way: No team in the league opens a season more prepared than the Broncos, whose coaching puts the them ahead of the curve in early tests.

But, given weeks to study Denver's schemes and tendencies, rivals begin to catch up. Talent on the field increasingly wins out. Shanahan's teams begin to lose more often.

Every September, the promise of the Broncos looks as brilliant as aspen against a perfect blue sky in the Rocky Mountains.

Too often, it proves to be fool's gold. Those championship dreams begin to fade, about the same time the leaves fall.

"Some teams get better and better as the season goes along. Some teams don't. If you stay like this? You're not going to win late in the year," said Bailey, who knows surrendering 26 first downs to the Jaguars won't cut it.

For every reason to believe in the validity of the 4-2 start by the Broncos, there is a corresponding bummer that can challenge the faith of even the most devout Broncomaniac.

While the arm strength of Jay Cutler is an awesome thing of nature, the young quarterback's stubborn nature sometimes makes him believe he can throw a football

Share Your Analysis

Post sports columnist Mark Kiszla fields your feedback. Look for it in Kickin' It With Kiz every Saturday.
through the chests of defenders. Turnovers ensue.
While Shanahan religiously preaches his defense is growing more stout, it's difficult to ignore the 125 yards rushing by Maurice Jones-Drew that made this beatdown sting in all the same tender spots as the physical whupping Jacksonville gave the Broncos a year ago.

In a division without a dominant team, there's every reason to think Denver will have a big say in the AFC West until the last word of the final regular-season game.

The Broncos, however, would not be human if they did not feel the chill of doubt.

Here. We. Go. Again?

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/1013/20081013_120615_ChartKiszla101308.jpg

MOtorboat
10-13-2008, 08:36 AM
I'm never really ever that concerned with the way things go on the football field. Won't change how I feel about the team I've rooted for for years. This team is still a competitive football team in the AFC, and will continue to be one this year, as they are almost every year.

I'd like them to be a Super Bowl contender, but I just don't think that's the reality of this season. With that said, who else is a definitive Super Bowl caliber team this year?

New England - Got smacked at San Diego last night, and they have some serious question marks at cornerback, quarterback and running back. (I'm sure this will mean Denver makes them look like all-pros next week)
Buffalo - Same spot as Denver. Lots of young talent, but no real winning experience and apparently a suspect defense.
Miami - OK...maybe...but NFL defenses will figure out the Wildcat soon enough, and Chad Pennington will have that team where he has every team, 8-8 or 9-7.
Pittsburgh - Maybe the front runner at this point. A pretty solid team.
Tennessee - Still struggling some offensively. Championship caliber defense.
Jacksonville - Just smacked Denver in the mouth, which is their MO, but they've been pretty average against everyone else.
Indianapolis - Finally looked like the team of old yesterday, but then again, Harrison has struggled all year and Addai still isn't moving the rock. Defense is pretty good, imo.
San Diego - Struggled to start the season, and have really only played one good game (last night over New England).

So who's ahead of Denver at this point in the season? Indy and Pittsburgh definitively, and that's probably it, despite what Jacksonville did yesterday. Jmho.

Broncolingus
10-13-2008, 08:43 AM
Thought this article was appropriate for this thread:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10706300



http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/1013/20081013_120615_ChartKiszla101308.jpg

I think this speaks to something we've all known, but is something I've really been thinking about this season and reflecting on past seasons this decade.

The 'character' of the Bronco's used to be (at least under Elway and regardless of the coach) basically 'no-lead-is-safe' and even if we're down by 14 points in the 4th QTR Denver can still come back.

Unfortunately, the Bronco's of the 2000s have the same 'character' just in the opposite context - as in no matter how big Denver's lead is ANY team still come back and win or once Denver's down 7-10 points, the game is basically over because there's no way Denver's physical enough to get back into it.

I think Denver, also, in the league is a team that lacks a physical and intimidating presence on the field...Denver, regardless of the record, doesn't scare anyone.

BTW, McCree sux too and no, I don't know who I'd replace him with.

claymore
10-13-2008, 08:45 AM
Our Defense is the worst in the league IMO. I dont care what numbers say. They suck. And its painful to watch.

ST's are looking ALLOT better.

Offense struggled without Scheffler, and Royal, and Stokley getting his mysterious injury. Jackson needs to "gel" with Cutler more. Martinez looked awesome.

BroncoJoe
10-13-2008, 08:50 AM
Our Defense is the worst in the league IMO. I dont care what numbers say. They suck. And its painful to watch.

ST's are looking ALLOT better.

Offense struggled without Scheffler, and Royal, and Stokley getting his mysterious injury. Jackson needs to "gel" with Cutler more. Martinez looked awesome.

I think Beef had a boner at the game yesterday while Martinez was in there.

Nomad
10-13-2008, 09:09 AM
Thought this article was appropriate for this thread:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10706300



http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/1013/20081013_120615_ChartKiszla101308.jpg



I like the way the writer threw in Champ wearing an Obama shirt, irrelevant to BRONCOS football:rolleyes:

Npba900
10-13-2008, 09:23 AM
Couldn't have said it better. Jay needs to shut the fcuk up and focus on taking care of the football. As for Brandon, he needs to realize there are times you just have to take what the defense gives you. That fumble was costly.

As for the defense, they gave up over 400 yards to the 22nd rank offense. For lack of a better term, they SUCK! They still can't tackle worth a damn. I can recall two plays where if they would wrap up instead of going for a kill shot, they stop J-Ville from possibly scoring.

Nate Webster trying to tackle MJD up high and the last TD to the TE Lewis with both McCree and Manuel going up high for kill shot and hitting each other. Piss poor tackling technique.

Things don't look good for the remainder of the season.

Like Randy Gradishar said last season when he made a guest appearance at the Bronco training camp........Gradishar noted that defensively, the Broncos training camp was more like CLUB MED, than the rigorous training camp his generation endured.

How in the hell do you have 21st century football players take the playing field and play without executing the most basic fundamentals of tackling.......wrapping up and driving thru your opponent! You mean to tell me that none of the defensive coaches noticed this trend of sloppy tackling during training camp and the last 5 weeks of film review???? Utterly amazing! The great defensive players and coaches of the 60's and 70's must be rolling over with disgust watching today's Defensive Professional Football players of desecrate the ART OF TACKLING!!!

Why not heavily fine every Bronco Defensive player who use their shoulders to bring down a ball carrier and who fail to fundamentally wrap up and finish a tackle during the season! Like, make the fine $10,000 per missed tackle!! If the union will allow it that is......

Bowlen needs to pull Shanahan aside and merely say..."Mike" this is BS, we can ill afford to allow the trend of our Defensive players of no longer adhering to the fundamentals of basic TACKLING"!!!

Hell Bowlen should show up for at film sessions and say....I'm not paying you millions of dollars NOT TO MAKE TACKLES!!!

Slowik needs to call them out and embarrass them during film reviews after games. Ask them....what-the-hell type of tackling are you doing out-there??? And if these stiffs continue this crap during training camp next season....you just cut the ********.

TOUGH LOVE BABY....THAT'S WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT!!!

Nomad
10-13-2008, 09:28 AM
Like Randy Gradishar said last season when he made a guest appearance at the Bronco training camp........Gradishar noted that defensively, the Broncos training camp was more like CLUB MED, than the rigorous training camp his generation endured.

How in the hell do you have 21st century football players take the playing field and play without executing the most basic fundamentals of tackling.......wrapping up and driving thru your opponent! You mean to tell me that none of the defensive coaches noticed this trend of sloppy tackling during training camp and the last 5 weeks of film review???? Utterly amazing! The great defensive players and coaches of the 60's and 70's must be rolling over with disgust watching today's Defensive Professional Football players of desecrate the ART OF TACKLING!!!

Why not heavily fine every Bronco Defensive player who use their shoulders to bring down a ball carrier and who fail to fundamentally wrap up and finish a tackle during the season! Like, make the fine $10,000 per missed tackle!! If the union will allow it that is......

Bowlen needs to pull Shanahan aside and merely say..."Mike" this is BS, we can ill afford to allow the trend of our Defensive players of no longer adhering to the fundamentals of basic TACKLING"!!!

Hell Bowlen should show up for at film sessions and say....I'm not paying you millions of dollars NOT TO MAKE TACKLES!!!

Slowik needs to call them out and embarrass them during film reviews after games. Ask them....what-the-hell type of tackling are you doing out-there??? And if these stiffs continue this crap during training camp next season....you just cut the ********.

TOUGH LOVE BABY....THAT'S WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT!!!


I also believe 'fines' should be implemented for the careless fumbles as well! These guys get paid enough to do their jobs right, but I know they get lazy and/or try to showboat. Some will say they're giving effort, sometimes that's not enough! Treat that football as if it's part of their bank account!

Npba900
10-13-2008, 09:31 AM
I like the way the writer threw in Champ wearing an Obama shirt, irrelevant to BRONCOS football:rolleyes:

Champ know's a WINNER when he see's one!!!:D

GEM
10-13-2008, 09:40 AM
I would have voted for something in between the "description" of 'a little' and 'not at all'.

I am only slightly concerned, as I think we are going to be in fine shape. Our defense did some good things today, while our offense was horrid. The D didn't play good for 60 minutes, but they did make key stops during the game. However, the sting of punts and turnovers by the offense is troubling.

I am more concerned about Jay being very inaccurate the last few games, and the offense turning the ball over multiple times in two of the last three games.

I know he lost a lot of receivers, but two weeks ago and again today, Jay has tried to force the ball into Marshall far to often.

That's exactly my thoughts T. Jay is staring down Marshall in double and triple coverage. I hope he gets past that and I know a lot of it this game is that he didn't have a whole lot of options, but it's been going on the past couple of games.

With all the time that Garrard had in the pocket yesterday, I'm not so sure that the D can hold off and just be enough. :tsk: The guy could have sat back there and baked a cake if he wanted to.

If the O can get back to where they were at the beginning of the season, I'm not so worried. If they continue on as they have the last 3 weeks, it's going to be a long season.

Npba900
10-13-2008, 09:51 AM
That's exactly my thoughts T. Jay is staring down Marshall in double and triple coverage. I hope he gets past that and I know a lot of it this game is that he didn't have a whole lot of options, but it's been going on the past couple of games.

With all the time that Garrard had in the pocket yesterday, I'm not so sure that the D can hold off and just be enough. :tsk: The guy could have sat back there and baked a cake if he wanted to.

If the O can get back to where they were at the beginning of the season, I'm not so worried. If they continue on as they have the last 3 weeks, it's going to be a long season.

As far a Jay staring down receivers.....I think he continues this trend for the rest of the season due to his lack of experience. Next season, Cutler's 3rd year as a full time starter he shouldn't be staring down his receivers and telegraphing is passes.

However, with 3 key WR's sidelined due to injuries....I can understand Jay staring down BMarsh....where else or who else would Cutler feel confident with throwing to....except for MBrash.

jrelway
10-13-2008, 10:34 AM
im pretty damn concerned after this game. Feels like teams are figuring us out on offense. We're trying to play 3-4 defense the wrong way. Isnt a 3-4 best suited to disguise blitz packages? Why run a 3-4 if we use it to sit back in zone coverage all day.

Broncolingus
10-13-2008, 10:38 AM
im pretty damn concerned after this game. Feels like teams are figuring us out on offense. We're trying to play 3-4 defense the wrong way. Isnt a 3-4 best suited to disguise blitz packages? Why run a 3-4 if we use it to sit back in zone coverage all day.

I think this is where several folks have different opinions here...

Personally, I don't think Denver has the players/playmakers to run EITHER effectively (4-3 or 3-4) - Denver's tried both with different coordinators and it's been more or less the same result.

Yes, I know players have changed to, but the fact is our down-four (whether it's 3-4 or 4-3) just can't put consistent pressure on the QB - that's about all that's 'for-sure' in all of this.

NO WAY David Gerrard is as 'good' as Denver made him look yesterday and his jersey was still awful pretty by the end of the game...

shank
10-13-2008, 10:59 AM
im pretty damn concerned after this game. Feels like teams are figuring us out on offense. We're trying to play 3-4 defense the wrong way. Isnt a 3-4 best suited to disguise blitz packages? Why run a 3-4 if we use it to sit back in zone coverage all day.

i dont' think anyone has us figured out on offense. we were missing 3 of our top 4 receiving targets for a majority of the game. our failures weren't due to being stopped, they were almost exclusively mistakes by our own guys. the pick, the fumbles, and the missed cutler/jackson TD were big blows, but apart from that, and most of the game, we still moved the ball very effectively, despite the list of injuries.

and i'm definitely not a fan of the 3-4. there were several blown coverages yesterday downfield, and i think it's due to an even more extreme lack of pressure when rushing 3, as well as the fact that you're implimenting a scheme that the players have very little experience with as far as i know.

shank
10-13-2008, 11:46 AM
also, dre bly went to pro-bowls playing man-to-man coverage. why don't we let him do what he's best at? just because he plays opposite champ doesn't mean he should have to play the same style as champ.

jrelway
10-13-2008, 11:57 AM
i think our corners need to play zone cause our run D would be even more awful if we were in man coverage.