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nevcraw
04-07-2011, 08:47 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17788097


The Broncos were supposed to have the No. 2 pick in the fourth round. Traded away for Laurence Maroney. Ugh.

The Broncos were supposed to have the No. 4 pick in the fifth round. Traded away for the right to select Jammie Kirlew (ugh) and Syd'Quan Thompson (not bad).

The Broncos were supposed to have the No. 3 pick in the sixth round. Traded away, along with Peyton Hillis (d'oh!), for Brady Quinn.

The Broncos were supposed to have the No. 2 pick in the seventh round. Traded away, along with Alphonso Smith (ugh) in a deal that brought Dan Gronkowski.

Granted, it's better to be empty at the back of the draft than the front. And the Broncos and New England Patriots are the only teams with as many as four of the top 67 picks. But, oh, what could have been.

"You can't do anything about the past," Broncos general manager Brian Xanders said. "We're very focused on our draft board and our process right now and trying to get four starters with those first four picks."


Read more: Bad deals come back to haunt Broncos in draft - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17788097#ixzz1IqQWb9hn


__________________________________________________ _________

another thing that burns me.. the wasted picks.. what could have been used to effectively restock the cupboard were pissed away like quarters in a slot machine...

and Xanders wants to look forward -- of course he does...

jhildebrand
04-07-2011, 09:48 AM
This is the part where I need Bosco to come back and tell me how the Maroney deal was a good value/deal. I loathed it the day it was announced and even moreso now.

Buff
04-07-2011, 09:59 AM
This is the part where I need Bosco to come back and tell me how the Maroney deal was a good value/deal. I loathed it the day it was announced and even moreso now.

In his defense, I think a lot of us thought we might be getting a rejuvinated Maroney who needed a fresh start to return to his old form. Coming out of Minnesota the dude was a stud. My biggest problem with the trade at the time was that he didn't bring any dimension we didn't already have with our existing backs.

I don't think any of us knew we were getting a washed up, pothead, deadbeat, one-dreadlock-having Maroney.

TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 10:11 AM
This is the part where I need Bosco to come back and tell me how the Maroney deal was a good value/deal. I loathed it the day it was announced and even moreso now.

I hoped that the change of scenery would help Maroney but after after his performance against the Titans I knew had been made to look like fools.

jhildebrand
04-07-2011, 10:25 AM
In his defense, I think a lot of us thought we might be getting a rejuvinated Maroney who needed a fresh start to return to his old form. Coming out of Minnesota the dude was a stud. My biggest problem with the trade at the time was that he didn't bring any dimension we didn't already have with our existing backs.

I don't think any of us knew we were getting a washed up, pothead, deadbeat, one-dreadlock-having Maroney.

I think that was more wishful thinking at the time. The leg injury was known at the time of the trade. Like you said, Maroney wasn't bringing anything to the team that didn't already exist.

That was a very, very bad trade.

MileHighCrew
04-07-2011, 10:30 AM
you can sure tell there isn't much news today. Shocked McD's trades came back to hurt the Broncos..... Who would have thought that would happen!!!!!!!

arapaho2
04-07-2011, 10:32 AM
I think that was more wishful thinking at the time. The leg injury was known at the time of the trade. Like you said, Maroney wasn't bringing anything to the team that didn't already exist.

That was a very, very bad trade.


just one of many in a short period for mcd...lets us be joyful knowing he is gone

rationalfan
04-07-2011, 10:46 AM
this is the most promising part of the story:

"Although it was the since-fired McDaniels who coveted Maroney and Quinn and rejected Hillis, it was Xanders' understanding of trade formulas that helped turn the Broncos into the Monte Hall of recent NFL drafts."

Lonestar
04-07-2011, 10:50 AM
In his defense, I think a lot of us thought we might be getting a rejuvinated Maroney who needed a fresh start to return to his old form. Coming out of Minnesota the dude was a stud. My biggest problem with the trade at the time was that he didn't bring any dimension we didn't already have with our existing backs.

I don't think any of us knew we were getting a washed up, pothead, deadbeat, one-dreadlock-having Maroney.There you go thinking again gets you in trouble everytime with 90% of the members here.

I suspect that Josh bad those same ideas. Getting fresh legs when we needs them.
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Lonestar
04-07-2011, 10:52 AM
you can sure tell there isn't much news today. Shocked McD's trades came back to hurt the Broncos..... Who would have thought that would happen!!!!!!!

About the same amount as ultra poor drafting on day one from 2000 to 05 and then again 07-08
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Tned
04-07-2011, 10:59 AM
There you go thinking again gets you in trouble everytime with 90% of the members here.

I suspect that Josh bad those same ideas. Getting fresh legs when we needs them.
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Freudian slip????

The blind loyalty to the guy that led the Broncos to the worst stretch in franchise history is admirable, even if it is solely because he replaced your hated Mike Shanahan.

The facts are pretty clear, he made a large number of very bad trades, draft choices and other personnel moves.

There is no reason that a person can't hate Shanahan and still honestly evaluate McDaniels. It isn't a zero sum game.

Just sayin....

:coffee:

broncofaninfla
04-07-2011, 11:59 AM
It's going to take a LONG time for me to fully let go of what Josh Mcd did to my favorite sports team. It's the past I know but what a piece of sh*t he turned out to be...........

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-07-2011, 12:04 PM
The Broncos were supposed to have the No. 2 pick in the fourth round. Traded away for Laurence Maroney. Ugh.


The Broncos were supposed to have the No. 3 pick in the sixth round. Traded away, along with Peyton Hillis (d'oh!), for Brady Quinn.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/cam_a/GIFs%20III/Glee_Kurt-cry.gif

Nomad
04-07-2011, 12:11 PM
While I stand in what I believe happened in the McD/Cutler thing and Marshall, it was hard to see him go but he did it to himself. McDaniels was in over his head as a HC and BRONCOS made the same mistake giving him too much power and watching him make mistake after mistake. I tried to give McDaniels the benefit of the doubt and time but he dug himself a deep hole he couldn't get out of and the spygate thing was the last straw!

Ravage!!!
04-07-2011, 12:14 PM
It's going to take a LONG time for me to fully let go of what Josh Mcd did to my favorite sports team. It's the past I know but what a piece of sh*t he turned out to be...........

you and me both, bro. Every time I see that guy's smug face, I want to throw something. I've never seen a guy that can come in and completely.. COMPLETELY... demolish up-n-coming young team like he did. He is absolutely the worst I've ever seen.

turftoad
04-07-2011, 12:22 PM
you and me both, bro. Every time I see that guy's smug face, I want to throw something. I've never seen a guy that can come in and completely.. COMPLETELY... demolish up-n-coming young team like he did. He is absolutely the worst I've ever seen.

Agreed!! Looking back, it could have been so easy. Get along with and keep the young core of offensive talent and aquire/draft defense.

Just shows how much of a smug idiot he really was. :tsk: Had he done that he would probably still have a head coaching job.

Soooooooo.... glad his smug ass is gone.

Lonestar
04-07-2011, 12:24 PM
Freudian slip????
The blind loyalty to the guy that led the Broncos to the worst stretch in franchise history is admirable, even if it is solely because he replaced your hated Mike Shanahan.
The facts are pretty clear, he made a large number of very bad trades, draft choices and other personnel moves.
There is no reason that a person can't hate Shanahan and still honestly evaluate McDaniels. It isn't a zero sum game.
Just sayin....
:coffee:

There you go again sayings I hate mikey when I have repeated explained that mikey would have won several more rings had he not drafted so poorly. A great offensive mind that had an ego and would not allow a decent DC to do their thing nor get anything but has beens to man that side of the LOS save champ and that would have never happened unless one of his head case RB had not wanted the moon.

As for Josh I do not see him as the devil incarnate. Like most here do. I liked most of hIs moves on players as for the most part IMO they were good ones.

Certanianly no worse than 90% of mikey did with the draft as well as uber expensive mostly head case or over the hill free agents.
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nevcraw
04-07-2011, 12:25 PM
There you go thinking again gets you in trouble everytime with 90% of the members here.

I suspect that Josh bad those same ideas. Getting fresh legs when we needs them.
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there ya go again re-writing history.. he was injured.. and had been beat out by 2 other running backs on his team.. fresh legs my ...

Lonestar
04-07-2011, 12:28 PM
It's going to take a LONG time for me to fully let go of what Josh Mcd did to my favorite sports team. It's the past I know but what a piece of sh*t he turned out to be...........

So why are you not angry with what mikey did since John retired. One playoff win and them get crushed at home in the AFCCG in all of those years. Mostly getting our asses kicked late in the year none and done on the playoffs.
Just do not understand the blind loyalty to mikey and the hate FO Josh.
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Lonestar
04-07-2011, 12:32 PM
The Broncos were supposed to have the No. 2 pick in the fourth round. Traded away for Laurence Maroney. Ugh.


The Broncos were supposed to have the No. 3 pick in the sixth round. Traded away, along with Peyton Hillis (d'oh!), for Brady Quinn.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j474/gifsfory0u/cryingkurt-1.gif at the Time few if any had any problems with those trades. Not so sure why withhindsite veryone is pisses about them.
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rcsodak
04-07-2011, 12:39 PM
While I stand in what I believe happened in the McD/Cutler thing and Marshall, it was hard to see him go but he did it to himself. McDaniels was in over his head as a HC and BRONCOS made the same mistake giving him too much power and watching him make mistake after mistake. I tried to give McDaniels the benefit of the doubt and time but he dug himself a deep hole he couldn't get out of and the spygate thing was the last straw!

Good post, nomad.
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Tned
04-07-2011, 12:43 PM
There you go again sayings I hate mikey when I have repeated explained that mikey would have won several more rings had he not drafted so poorly. A great offensive mind that had an ego and would not allow a decent DC to do their thing nor get anything but has beens to man that side of the LOS save champ and that would have never happened unless one of his head case RB had not wanted the moon.

As for Josh I do not see him as the devil incarnate. Like most here do. I liked most of hIs moves on players as for the most part IMO they were good ones.

Certanianly no worse than 90% of mikey did with the draft as well as uber expensive mostly head case or over the hill free agents.
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Come on dude, anyone that has read more than a handful of your posts knows your hate for Shanahan. You can't even bring yourself to capitalize his name. It's your prerogative to be driven by irrational hatred, but there is no sense it claiming it doesn't blind you to facts when posting about McDaniels, 'mikey', Cutler, Nolan, etc.

Anyway, back to the topic of McDaniels' bad deals that ****** up the Broncos roster and immediate drafting future.

Lonestar
04-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Come on dude, anyone that has read more than a handful of your posts knows your hate for Shanahan. You can't even bring yourself to capitalize his name. It's your prerogative to be driven by irrational hatred, but there is no sense it claiming it doesn't blind you to facts when posting about McDaniels, 'mikey', Cutler, Nolan, etc.

Anyway, back to the topic of McDaniels' bad deals that ****** up the Broncos roster and immediate drafting future.

On this iPhone I do not capitalize hardly anything unless the phone changes for me. So you can let that excuse go.
I was probably more surprised than anyone to see Mikey fired. Thought pat would just hire a GM and dc and Di the team in that manner.
My dislike of mikey the GM had very little to do with Miley the genius OC.

So please stop the hatered comments. It just feeds the feeble minded.
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BeefStew25
04-07-2011, 01:03 PM
Jr whiz, take your iPhone and put it in a a blender with ice. Blend. Drink the iPhone margarita. Then poop.

dogfish
04-07-2011, 01:04 PM
at the Time few if any had any problems with those trades. Not so sure why withhindsite veryone is pisses about them.
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i hated those trades when they were made, look up my posts from the time if you doubt it. . .

rcsodak
04-07-2011, 01:05 PM
Come on dude, anyone that has read more than a handful of your posts knows your hate for Shanahan. You can't even bring yourself to capitalize his name. It's your prerogative to be driven by irrational hatred, but there is no sense it claiming it doesn't blind you to facts when posting about McDaniels, 'mikey', Cutler, Nolan, etc.

Anyway, back to the topic of McDaniels' bad deals that ****** up the Broncos roster and immediate drafting future.
He capped jayjay?? :confused:
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MileHighCrew
04-07-2011, 02:20 PM
About the same amount as ultra poor drafting on day one from 2000 to 05 and then again 07-08
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The horrible drafting by Shanny and Co doesn't undo the complete nightmare of the McD era.
This was a thread about how recent moves have hurt the Broncos and that is not news.
Just because the person before you had weaknesses it doesn't give you the right to be horrible at your job.

titan
04-07-2011, 02:22 PM
Reading that article makes me think maybe Xanders can be of value going forward. I thought the Broncos did a good job last year of moving down and acquiring extra picks, and it sounds like Xanders was negotiating those trades. Who they picked and trading away more picks sounds like it was McD's doing.

McDaniels was terrible because of his player evaluation and drafting. He was a decent on field strategist (you don't go 6-0 by luck in the NFL). As soon as I heard about the Alphonso Smith trade (trading a future #1 for a 2nd rounder) I was worried. That Alphonso Smith trade could have turned out alot worse than it actually did (imagine if the Bears had the Broncos #2 pick in the draft this year and the Broncos had the Bears #29 pick in the 1st round - we only missed that scenario by one year)

GEM
04-07-2011, 03:03 PM
On this iPhone I do not capitalize hardly anything unless the phone changes for me. So you can let that excuse go.
I was probably more surprised than anyone to see Mikey fired. Thought pat would just hire a GM and dc and Di the team in that manner.
My dislike of mikey the GM had very little to do with Miley the genius OC.

So please stop the hatered comments. It just feeds the feeble minded.
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You sure capitalized a lot of letters in that post to say that you hardly capitalize anything. :lol:

Hatred comments....hello pot, meet kettle.

rcsodak
04-07-2011, 03:24 PM
You sure capitalized a lot of letters in that post to say that you hardly capitalize anything. :lol:

Hatred comments....hello pot, meet kettle.

I think LS was playing around after the punctuation police post.

Sure made Me chuckle. :lol:
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Northman
04-07-2011, 03:27 PM
This is the part where I need Bosco to come back and tell me how the Maroney deal was a good value/deal. I loathed it the day it was announced and even moreso now.

Ive seen that guy post like TWICE since the firing of McD. I think we know all about what Bosco stands for. :lol:


As to the article, its hitting it on the head. I hope Xanders is right, if we use all 4 draft picks in the early rounds they need to be hits, not misses. If we are uncomfortable with any pick than trade back and garner some more so that the pool deepens with more possibilities and not reaches.

Northman
04-07-2011, 03:28 PM
I don't think any of us knew we were getting a washed up, pothead, deadbeat, one-dreadlock-having Maroney.

I did, i cant really see how anyone couldnt see it. If you cant flourish on a team like NE than there is bounds to be problems with that particular player. This isnt a case of a great player on a bad team who went to waste.

jhildebrand
04-07-2011, 03:30 PM
There you go thinking again gets you in trouble everytime with 90% of the members here.

I suspect that Josh bad those same ideas. Getting fresh legs when we needs them.


Fresh legs on Sept 14? :confused:

:lol:

Anything to defend the indefensible eh JR?


at the Time few if any had any problems with those trades. Not so sure why withhindsite veryone is pisses about them.
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I had plenty of issues with the Maroney trade. I had several tell me it wasn't a big deal it was only a 4th. Funny thing is now the 4th is a big deal!

I had issues with the other trades save for Alphonso.

topscribe
04-07-2011, 03:47 PM
I did, i cant really see how anyone couldnt see it. If you cant flourish on a team like NE than there is bounds to be problems with that particular player. This isnt a case of a great player on a bad team who went to waste.

I was one who was fooled.

I thought, "I saw that guy in college. No way he could be that bad."

He was . . .

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Northman
04-07-2011, 03:49 PM
I was one who was fooled.

I thought, "I saw that guy in college. No way he could be that bad."

He was . . .

-----

I think whenever a player comes on this team who had high "expectations" there is a sense of "hope" that said player can rebound or rebuild their career but Maroney didnt leave a lot of people jumping for joy when coming on board.

GEM
04-07-2011, 03:50 PM
I knew Maroney was what he turned out to be. Belicheck doesn't let go of great talent for low price. If it were any other team he would have been lucky to squeak out a 7th for him, he knew McDaniels would overpay for him and he did.

GEM
04-07-2011, 03:51 PM
I think whenever a player comes on this team who had high "expectations" there is a sense of "hope" that said player can rebound or rebuild their career but Maroney didnt leave a lot of people jumping for joy when coming on board.

I would have much rather spent the 4th on Lynch.

topscribe
04-07-2011, 03:51 PM
I think whenever a player comes on this team who had high "expectations" there is a sense of "hope" that said player can rebound or rebuild their career but Maroney didnt leave a lot of people jumping for joy when coming on board.

Most of us just wanted a running game. Any kind of running game.

We didn't care where it came from. Ergo, the false hope . . .

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Nomad
04-07-2011, 03:53 PM
Most of us just wanted a running game. Any kind of running game.

We didn't care where it came from. Ergo, the false hope . . .

-----

I believe we still long for a solid running game!!

topscribe
04-07-2011, 03:58 PM
I believe we still long for a solid running game!!

I believe it will be much better this season. I'd like to see the Broncos go after
DeAngelo Williams like an elk in season . . . but now I'm a bit off-topic. :)

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GEM
04-07-2011, 04:02 PM
I hope Lendale's achilles heals. I was really looking forward to seeing what he could do knowing that this was probably his last destination in football.

Northman
04-07-2011, 04:05 PM
I hope Lendale's achilles heals. I was really looking forward to seeing what he could do knowing that this was probably his last destination in football.

Sadly, i dont think he does much either but ive never been sold on him going all the way back to college.

topscribe
04-07-2011, 04:07 PM
Sadly, i dont think he does much either but ive never been sold on him going all the way back to college.

I wasn't either. But I really did like the flash he displayed here, even though it was in a pan, as it were.

I'm with Gem in that I'd like to see how real it was . . .

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BroncoNut
04-07-2011, 04:10 PM
So why are you not angry with what mikey did since John retired. One playoff win and them get crushed at home in the AFCCG in all of those years. Mostly getting our asses kicked late in the year none and done on the playoffs.
Just do not understand the blind loyalty to mikey and the hate FO Josh.
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LS. what do you think of the McD era? do you think he did well? As a fan, doesn't he make you feel a little pissed off?

Me, well, I guess here's my 2 cents.

Shanahan needed to go I thought. I thought he needed a change of scenery to jump start him. I think well of Mike Shanahan as a coach, I don't see how any fan couldn't. BUT,, it was his time to go

On the JMcD Hire. I thought it was an aggressive hire. Young Josh McDaniels who turned Matt Cassel into a better qb, and also from the the New England Pats. I think it was aggressive in the sense that the young man came with no HC experience. If Tebow turns into a stud NFL qb, he should be retroactively credited with that. You gotta bring in people you can work with and I think that is a bigh reason he reached for TT

Boy, I forgot what else I was gonna say. Oh yeah, ... GEM, lets' bang

Nomad
04-07-2011, 04:11 PM
I would have much rather spent the 4th on Lynch.

That's who I thought the BRONCOS got at first, because when L. Maroney's name came up, I was picturing M.Lynch!

Tned
04-07-2011, 04:13 PM
LS. what do you think of the McD era? do you think he did well? As a fan, doesn't he make you feel a little pissed off?

Me, well, I guess here's my 2 cents.

Shanahan needed to go I thought. I thought he needed a change of scenery to jump start him. I think well of Mike Shanahan as a coach, I don't see how any fan couldn't. BUT,, it was his time to go

On the JMcD Hire. I thought it was an aggressive hire. Young Josh McDaniels who turned Matt Cassel into a better qb, and also from the the New England Pats. I think it was aggressive in the sense that the young man came with no HC experience. If Tebow turns into a stud NFL qb, he should be retroactively credited with that. You gotta bring in people you can work with and I think that is a bigh reason he reached for TT

Boy, I forgot what else I was gonna say. Oh yeah, ... GEM, lets' bang

You will have to convince Jr/LS that it isn't a zero sum game before he will answer you honestly. He believes that if he posts any criticism of McDaniels that some how that nullifies his hatred and indictment of 'mikey' (lower case, Jr derogatory nick name).

The fact is that the two coaches stand on their own, but some of "ya'll" just don't see that...

:coffee: (this one's for you Mtn...)

BroncoNut
04-07-2011, 04:14 PM
There you go again sayings I hate mikey when I have repeated explained that mikey would have won several more rings had he not drafted so poorly. A great offensive mind that had an ego and would not allow a decent DC to do their thing nor get anything but has beens to man that side of the LOS save champ and that would have never happened unless one of his head case RB had not wanted the moon.

As for Josh I do not see him as the devil incarnate. Like most here do. I liked most of hIs moves on players as for the most part IMO they were good ones.

Certanianly no worse than 90% of mikey did with the draft as well as uber expensive mostly head case or over the hill free agents.
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fair and honest post.

Tned
04-07-2011, 04:21 PM
fair and honest post.

Yea, if by fair and honest you mean twisted and deceitful..... (said in my best Greg Gutfeld voice)...

topscribe
04-07-2011, 04:39 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/54429099_52b5f32041_m.jpg

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TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 04:39 PM
I hope Lendale's achilles heals. I was really looking forward to seeing what he could do knowing that this was probably his last destination in football.

Agreed. But I'm concerned that he's going to come back looking like a beached whale.

topscribe
04-07-2011, 04:41 PM
Agreed. But I'm concerned that he's going to come back looking like beached whale.

Last I heard LenDale is going to an extra effort to stay in shape.

Hope that's true . . .

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TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 04:43 PM
Last I heard LenDale is going to an extra effort to stay in shape.

Hope that's true . . .

-----

Me too. :beer:

Tned
04-07-2011, 04:53 PM
Last I heard LenDale is going to an extra effort to stay in shape.

Hope that's true . . .

-----

Even in good shape, and forgetting how iffy recovery from an achiles can be (I'm trying to forget because of DT), the fact is that White so far hasn't been able to really make an impact in the NFL. Maybe he will, and I'm happy to see him as part of the mix, but nothing about him to date says he is likely to be part of the solution to our running attack woes.

topscribe
04-07-2011, 04:58 PM
Even in good shape, and forgetting how iffy recovery from an achiles can be (I'm trying to forget because of DT), the fact is that White so far hasn't been able to really make an impact in the NFL. Maybe he will, and I'm happy to see him as part of the mix, but nothing about him to date says he is likely to be part of the solution to our running attack woes.

As you know, a huge factor in an athlete's performance is motivation, or, as
Mr. Dawkins likes to put it, his "want-to." LenDale has landed his dream job: at
home, with the team he grew up rooting for, and now a RB-oriented coach. It
would be nice, then, to see him coming back with a fire under him, if it just
would happen . . .

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TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 04:59 PM
As you know, a huge factor in an athlete's performance is motivation, or, as
Mr. Dawkins likes to put it, his "want-to." LenDale has landed his dream job: at
home, with the team he grew up rooting for, and now a RB-oriented coach. It
would be nice, then, to see him coming back with a fire under him, if it just
would happen . . .

-----

I was sure you were going to say a fire in his belly.

Tned
04-07-2011, 05:02 PM
As you know, a huge factor in an athlete's performance is motivation, or, as
Mr. Dawkins likes to put it, his "want-to." LenDale has landed his dream job: at
home, with the team he grew up rooting for, and now a RB-oriented coach. It
would be nice, then, to see him coming back with a fire under him, if it just
would happen . . .

-----

I also know that players that tend not to give their all in one place, often don't in the next. I think it's the whole geographical cure and how it rarely works for booz or other stuff.

GEM
04-07-2011, 05:05 PM
I also know that players that tend not to give their all in one place, often don't in the next. I think it's the whole geographical cure and how it rarely works for booz or other stuff.

I don't know that it's the geological stuff that makes me have a belief that something has changed. It's more of the he's been in a couple places, no one else will really want to take the chance. I think he knows that if he don't make it work here, he probably doesn't have another shot. To me, that seems to be his fire. :shrugs:

All I know is that I liked what I saw in preseason and hope to get to see some more.

Tned
04-07-2011, 05:13 PM
I don't know that it's the geological stuff that makes me have a belief that something has changed. It's more of the he's been in a couple places, no one else will really want to take the chance. I think he knows that if he don't make it work here, he probably doesn't have another shot. To me, that seems to be his fire. :shrugs:

All I know is that I liked what I saw in preseason and hope to get to see some more.

I'm hopeful that he can produce, but won't be surprised if he doesn't. What I mean by that is that I think the front office needs to beef up the running back corps, and not assume he will provide major production. If he does, it's a bonus, but I still consider him a gamble.

GEM
04-07-2011, 05:17 PM
I'm hopeful that he can produce, but won't be surprised if he doesn't. What I mean by that is that I think the front office needs to beef up the running back corps, and not assume he will provide major production. If he does, it's a bonus, but I still consider him a gamble.

Completely agree, especially with the achilles injury. It's hard enough to come back from that injury, but especially for a RB. I'm just hoping for the best.

Tned
04-07-2011, 05:19 PM
Completely agree, especially with the achilles injury. It's hard enough to come back from that injury, but especially for a RB. I'm just hoping for the best.

Ich auch ---I'm hoping for the best as well. FWIW, I'm still hoping for good things from Moreno. If he can stay healthy, and get some consistancy in the line and scheme, I still think he's got something to give. Whether he can live up to his draft pick is a big question mark.

TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 05:23 PM
Completely agree, especially with the achilles injury. It's hard enough to come back from that injury, but especially for a RB. I'm just hoping for the best.

The lockout in some respects might do someone like Lendale a lot of good. It gives him a little extra time heal up and get ready for the season once it resumes.

GEM
04-07-2011, 05:29 PM
Ich auch ---I'm hoping for the best as well. FWIW, I'm still hoping for good things from Moreno. If he can stay healthy, and get some consistancy in the line and scheme, I still think he's got something to give. Whether he can live up to his draft pick is a big question mark.

I think everyone just expected Moreno to be something he never was...an explosive, fast rb. I think when go in the top 15 like he did, there are just expectations that the player will be like LT or Adrian Peterson. Unfortunately if the Broncos had done their homework, they would have seen that he was never that. I really don't know how he was ranked as highly as he was.

GEM
04-07-2011, 05:29 PM
The lockout in some respects might do someone like Lendale a lot of good. It gives him a little extra time heal up and get ready for the season once it resumes.

That is good for the Broncos as well. Gives them an idea if he is a candidate for PUP, IR, cut or where his future might lie with the franchise.

Northman
04-07-2011, 05:34 PM
I think everyone just expected Moreno to be something he never was...an explosive, fast rb. I think when go in the top 15 like he did, there are just expectations that the player will be like LT or Adrian Peterson. Unfortunately if the Broncos had done their homework, they would have seen that he was never that. I really don't know how he was ranked as highly as he was.

Basically like you said, he was a flashy player in college. But for some of us who study it a bit more closely knew he isnt a bruising kind of back and would of preferred a player like Shonn Greene or Donald Brown type of back instead. To me when it came to RB's in that draft it was deep so guys like Greene and Brown could of been had at a much lower cost.

Even Ayers wasnt high on my list but at least they went with a defensive guy but i still would of preferred guys like Clay Matthews or Orakpo.

TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 05:38 PM
Basically like you said, he was a flashy player in college. But for some of us who study it a bit more closely knew he isnt a bruising kind of back and would of preferred a player like Shonn Greene or Donald Brown type of back instead. To me when it came to RB's in that draft it was deep so guys like Greene and Brown could of been had at a much lower cost.

Even Ayers wasnt high on my list but at least they went with a defensive guy but i still would of preferred guys like Clay Matthews or Orakpo.

Other than not being able to stay healthy I think Moreno's problem was that he placed in power running scheme and like you said he's not a power running. In a zone blocking scheme with a fullback that can lead the way he might flourish.

WARHORSE
04-07-2011, 05:38 PM
Im just glad we have Lonie Paxton on our roster.



Hes WAY better than Mike Leach ever was.





:coffee:

Nomad
04-07-2011, 05:40 PM
I think everyone just expected Moreno to be something he never was...an explosive, fast rb. I think when go in the top 15 like he did, there are just expectations that the player will be like LT or Adrian Peterson. Unfortunately if the Broncos had done their homework, they would have seen that he was never that. I really don't know how he was ranked as highly as he was.

Moreno wasn't my 1st choice with the pick (defense was my choice) but when they did call his name I envisioned another LT especially how Moreno played at Georgia. Perhaps he may turn it around, but I believe his time is running out!!

TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 05:41 PM
Im just glad we have Lonie Paxton on our roster.



Hes WAY better than Mike Leach ever was.





:coffee:

He's a difference maker that's for sure. :nod:

GEM
04-07-2011, 05:43 PM
Other than not being able to stay healthy I think Moreno's problem was that he placed in power running scheme and like you said he's not a power running. In a zone blocking scheme with a fullback that can lead the way he might flourish.

Fingers crossed that you are right!!

TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 05:45 PM
Fingers crossed that you are right!!

You might want to cross your toes while you're at it.

Nomad
04-07-2011, 05:50 PM
Im just glad we have Lonie Paxton on our roster.



Hes WAY better than Mike Leach ever was.





:coffee:

While it didn't bother me as much as frau.......it was an unnecessary move and a head scratcher as to why!!

GEM
04-07-2011, 05:50 PM
You might want to cross your toes while you're at it.

I'd cross my eyes, but I heard if done long enough, that can become permanent. :lol:

MNPatsFan
04-07-2011, 05:58 PM
You sure capitalized a lot of letters in that post to say that you hardly capitalize anything. :lol:
not taking sides in this debate, but to be fair, having an I-phone too, I know that the phone automatically capitalizes letters after a period and space;)

TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 06:00 PM
not taking sides in this debate, but to be fair, having an I-phone too, I know that the phone automatically capitalizes letters after a period and space;)

Some of his capitals were in the middle of the sentence.

Tned
04-07-2011, 06:02 PM
not taking sides in this debate, but to be fair, having an I-phone too, I know that the phone automatically capitalizes letters after a period and space;)

True, but the perp in question has been doing it since before he had an IPhone or Mac at home. It was a handy excuse/deflection, but nothing close to truth.

GEM
04-07-2011, 06:02 PM
Some of his capitals were in the middle of the sentence.

Haha...what I thought was funny was RC getting mad about the punctuation police, but then bringing up the spelling of the Broncos center's name.


:lol: Hypocrisy always makes me laugh. :D

MNPatsFan
04-07-2011, 06:12 PM
you and me both, bro. Every time I see that guy's smug face, I want to throw something. I've never seen a guy that can come in and completely.. COMPLETELY... demolish up-n-coming young team like he did. He is absolutely the worst I've ever seen.I think it is a major stretch to say the Broncos were an "up-n-coming young team" when Josh took over. I mean the three years before Josh took over the Broncos were 9-7, 7-9 and 8-8 respectfully and that by definition is not an up-n-coming young team. Furthermore, I saw a number of posts in here talking about how Shanahan the GM had bad FA signings and drafts during that same time period. Josh clearly was over his head and did not make good decisions regarding drafts and trades.

It was my understanding, however, that the Broncos had someone and may still retain him, who was the GM or person in charge of player personnel. If so, shouldn't or wouldn't he also share some of the blame along with McD for the horrible drafts and trades and the Broncos present dire situation. I maybe mistaken about that, but thought I read something in the article even admitting that. If I am mistaken, then I am sure I will be savagely corrected but justifiably so.:lol:

Anyways, it appears that Shanahan (the GM) and Josh (the GM) are both guilty and responsible for the Broncos situation (Josh more so because he was here more recently). All you have to do is look at the Washington Redskins to see the type of bad FA signings and trades that Shanahan made while with the Broncos and continues to make in DC.;)

MNPatsFan
04-07-2011, 06:14 PM
Some of his capitals were in the middle of the sentence.Oh well if that is the case ... I missed that fact :laugh::laugh:

Northman
04-07-2011, 06:15 PM
I think it is a major stretch to say the Broncos were an "up-n-coming young team" when Josh took over. I mean the three years before Josh took over the Broncos were 9-7, 7-9 and 8-8 respectfully and that by definition is not an up-n-coming young team.

Actually, its not a stretch mate. Because its more than just the records indicate. You have to look a little deeper and this team was starting to load a lot of young talent on the offensive side of the ball. Even as good as St. Louis and Detroit played this year with their young talent their records didnt indicate it.

MNPatsFan
04-07-2011, 06:19 PM
Actually, its not a stretch mate. Because its more than just the records indicate. You have to look a little deeper and this team was starting to load a lot of young talent on the offensive side of the ball. Even as good as St. Louis and Detroit played this year with their young talent their records didnt indicate it.But other than Champ there was very little talent on defense, let alone young talent.

A team that only has talent on one side of the ball can't really be classified as up and coming. For example, people/experts didn't classify Detroit as an up-n-coming team when they only had young talent on the offensive side, but now that they also have young talent on the defensive side they are calling them up and coming.

TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 06:21 PM
I believe it will be much better this season. I'd like to see the Broncos go after
DeAngelo Williams like an elk in season . . . but now I'm a bit off-topic. :)

-----

Doesn't that mean the elk are ready to mate? :shocked:

atwater27
04-07-2011, 06:21 PM
There is no reason that a person can't hate Shanahan and still honestly evaluate McDaniels. It isn't a zero sum game.

Just sayin....

:coffee:

I think you are going to have to define the term 'zero sum' for him.

atwater27
04-07-2011, 06:22 PM
The Broncos were supposed to have the No. 2 pick in the fourth round. Traded away for Laurence Maroney. Ugh.


The Broncos were supposed to have the No. 3 pick in the sixth round. Traded away, along with Peyton Hillis (d'oh!), for Brady Quinn.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/cam_a/GIFs%20III/Glee_Kurt-cry.gif

Is that my buddy from glee? Why is he so sad?!

Northman
04-07-2011, 06:22 PM
But other than Champ there was very little talent on defense, let alone young talent.

Of course, but you cant build Rome in a day. But the point is that finally with the Goodman's and better decision making in the draft we were starting to head in the right direction. The problem for Shanahan is he waited too long to buy the clue. But when you have a nucleus of young talent like we did and your team is at the very least .500 you dont nuke the damn thing and start all over. Its one thing if this team was like the Raiders and spent 7 years winning only 4 or 5 games a year but we were nowhere near that bad.....well, until McDoofus took over anyway.

TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 06:26 PM
Is that my buddy from glee? Why is he so sad?!

He's upset because Denver fired McDaniels. :laugh:

MNPatsFan
04-07-2011, 06:27 PM
Of course, but you cant build Rome in a day. But the point is that finally with the Goodman's and better decision making in the draft we were starting to head in the right direction. The problem for Shanahan is he waited too long to buy the clue. But when you have a nucleus of young talent like we did and your team is at the very least .500 you dont nuke the damn thing and start all over. Its one thing if this team was like the Raiders and spent 7 years winning only 4 or 5 games a year but we were nowhere near that bad.....well, until McDoofus took over anyway.I think you are under selling/stating Shanahan's contribution to the mess.

As for the rest, please see my second part of my post you quoted. Although I immediately edited because I thought it more appropriate than a separate post, you quoted me too damn fast.:lol:

atwater27
04-07-2011, 06:33 PM
Just do not understand the blind loyalty to mikey and the hate FO Josh.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Just do not understand the blind loyalty to a rookie HC who was here all but 2 seasons with ZEEEEEROOOO Accomplishments.....

And the hate for a guy who had 'a few' signifigant accomplishments.. in case you forgot..



Shanahan’s 146 regular season wins as an NFL head coach are the 17th-most in history and the second-most among active coaches, trailing only Bill Belichick’s 148. Including eight postseason victories, Shanahan’s 154 overall wins are tied for 16th all-time and are also second among active coaches to Belichick’s 163. In 16 seasons as a head coach with the Denver Broncos (1995-2008) and the Los Angeles Raiders (1988-89), Shanahan has a regular season winning percentage of .598 (146-98) and an overall winning percentage of .615 (154-103).

During his tenure with the Broncos, Shanahan guided the franchise to two Super Bowl victories, three conference championship game appearances, seven postseason berths and nine winning seasons. Along with Vince Lombardi, Don Shula, Chuck Noll, Jimmy Johnson and Belichick, he is one of six coaches with back-to-back Super Bowl championships.

During his 25-year NFL coaching career, Shanahan has been a part of teams that have played in 10 AFC or NFC Championship Games. He has coached in six Super Bowls, including five with Denver and Super Bowl XXIX with San Francisco. In his nine seasons coaching at the collegiate level, Shanahan’s teams participated in eight bowl games and won two national championships (Oklahoma -- 1975 and Eastern Illinois -- 1978).

Shanahan, 57, led Denver to 138 regular-season victories in 14 seasons, a win total that marks the 10th-most by a head coach with one franchise in NFL history. Among the nine coaches who have more wins with one club than Shanahan, all eight who are eligible for the Pro Football Hall of Fame have been honored with membership.

Over his last 16 years (1995-2008 in Denver and 1992-94 in San Francisco), Shanahan’s offenses have finished No. 1 in the NFL four times, No. 2 three times, No. 3 three times and No. 4 once. In his 14 seasons in Denver, the Broncos led the NFL in total yards (83,771), rushing yards (30,993) and first downs (4,678) and ranked third in points scored (5,449).

Shanahan’s 138 regular season wins, 146 overall wins, .616 winning percentage in the regular season and overall are all the best by a head coach in Denver history and include an 83-29 (.741) home record in regular-season play.
In Shanahan’s 118 home regular-season and playoff games tenure with the Broncos, Denver scored 30 or more points 47 times and 20 or more points 94 times. Including road games, in his 221 overall games as Denver’s head coach, the Broncos have scored 30 or more points 83 times and 20 or more points 169 times. Denver’s record in the 83 games in which it has scored 30 or more points under Shanahan is 79-4 (4-0 in playoff competition), including a 46-1 mark (2-0 in postseason) at home.

Shanahan was hired as Denver’s head coach on Jan. 31, 1995, and later added the responsibilities of Executive Vice President of Football Operations in 1998. Under his guidance, the Broncos became one of the most accomplished franchises in the NFL. Some of their achievements are included below:

* Became one of three clubs in the NFL (New England, Pittsburgh) to win multiple Super Bowls since 1995, with back-to-back victories in Super Bowl XXXII and XXXIII (1997-98).
* Shanahan’s 138 regular-season wins with Denver from 1995-2008 were most by an NFL coach over that span and gave the Broncos the league’s fourth-best record (138-86/.616) during that time.
* Established the record most wins in pro football history in a two-year period with33 from 1997-98 (New England since won 34 from 2003-04).
* Posted the most wins in pro football history in a three-year period (46 from 1996-98).
* Won the most playoff games in pro football history over a two-year period with seven from 1997-98.
* Won 18 consecutive games, including playoffs, from 1997-98 to tie a then all-time NFL record for consecutive victories (New England won 21 in 2003-04). The Broncos went undefeated for a calendar year during that streak from Dec. 15, 1997, until Dec. 13, 1998.
* Went undefeated at home for three consecutive regular seasons (1996-98), becoming just the second team ever to be undefeated and untied at home in three consecutive years.
* Posted a 22-2 record in their final 24 games during the back-to-back title years.
* Had an offense ranked in the top five in the NFL in nine of 14 seasons.
* Totaled the most overall yards in the NFL (83,771 yds., 374.0 ypg.).
* Recorded the most rushing yards in the NFL (30,993 yds., 138.4 ypg.).
* Recorded seventh-most passing yards in the NFL (50,067 yds., 223.5 ypg.).
* Scored the third-most points in the NFL (5,449 pts., 24.3 ppg.).
* Registered the best home record in the NFL during regular-season play (83-29/.741).
* Posted a 79-4 (.952) record when scoring 30 or more points (4-0 in postseason), a total that includes a 46-1 (.979) mark in home games (2-0 in postseason).
* Totaled a 110-30 (.785) record when registering an even or positive turnover ratio, including a 40-4 (.909) mark with a turnover ratio of +2 or better.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/coaches?coaType=head&team=WAS

MNPatsFan
04-07-2011, 06:34 PM
Of course, but you cant build Rome in a day. But the point is that finally with the Goodman's and better decision making in the draft we were starting to head in the right direction. The problem for Shanahan is he waited too long to buy the clue. But when you have a nucleus of young talent like we did and your team is at the very least .500 you dont nuke the damn thing and start all over. Its one thing if this team was like the Raiders and spent 7 years winning only 4 or 5 games a year but we were nowhere near that bad.....well, until McDoofus took over anyway.I should probably also mention that a lot of that young talent on offense was very immature and an explosive situation building towards an explosion. Cutler - extremely immature who has had several temper tantrum explosions in Denver and Chicago. B. Marshall who has had several immature issues in Denver and Miami, etc.

As a result, not sure how well that offensive talent would have gelled and allowed the Broncos to progress. IMHO they would have ended up imploding based on how some of that young talented has acted on other teams, but we will never know

topscribe
04-07-2011, 07:01 PM
Doesn't that mean the elk are ready to mate? :shocked:

It can mating season, or it can mean hunting season. Take your pick.

If it's hunting season, I'll leave my post as it is.

If mating, then I will change it to "like a bull after a cow in season."



But then, if you're Beef, then that goes to a whole different level . . . :D



-----

rcsodak
04-07-2011, 07:03 PM
Haha...what I thought was funny was RC getting mad about the punctuation police, but then bringing up the spelling of the Broncos center's name.


:lol: Hypocrisy always makes me laugh. :D
what's funnier is you didn't know WHO you were talking about.
:D
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

rcsodak
04-07-2011, 07:21 PM
Of course, but you cant build Rome in a day. But the point is that finally with the Goodman's and better decision making in the draft we were starting to head in the right direction. The problem for Shanahan is he waited too long to buy the clue. But when you have a nucleus of young talent like we did and your team is at the very least .500 you dont nuke the damn thing and start all over. Its one thing if this team was like the Raiders and spent 7 years winning only 4 or 5 games a year but we were nowhere near that bad.....well, until McDoofus took over anyway.

You say rome can't be built in a day, and yet don't allow mcd to complete what he started.
so he started with the offense. Oh well! So did shanny.
who's to say wink couldn't have had a good defense this year, with a yr under his belt and doom back and some stud dlinemen added?
how do you know he couldn't have turned things around?
answer, you don't.

Not saying it would have happened, but such a small sample size doesn't make for a good indicator. Just presumptions.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

MileHighCrew
04-07-2011, 07:27 PM
You say rome can't be built in a day, and yet don't allow mcd to complete what he started.
so he started with the offense. Oh well! So did shanny.
who's to say wink couldn't have had a good defense this year, with a yr under his belt and doom back and some stud dlinemen added?
how do you know he couldn't have turned things around?
answer, you don't.

Not saying it would have happened, but such a small sample size doesn't make for a good indicator. Just presumptions.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Although it was a small sample size, the worst season in the proud history of the Denver Broncos needed to result in his termination.
Could he turn it around, maybe but he didn't earn the right to have a chance to do it.

Northman
04-07-2011, 07:27 PM
You say rome can't be built in a day, and yet don't allow mcd to complete what he started.
so he started with the offense. Oh well! So did shanny.
who's to say wink couldn't have had a good defense this year, with a yr under his belt and doom back and some stud dlinemen added?
how do you know he couldn't have turned things around?
answer, you don't.

Not saying it would have happened, but such a small sample size doesn't make for a good indicator. Just presumptions.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

He started with the offense which didnt need to be burned down and rebuilt. Sorry, not the same thing. Then, when you go to rebuild you have to actually place the right talent there and actually show the improvement which never happened. And any vets he brought in (at least for the most part) were castoffs and has beens which did nothing for this team. You ask how do i know he couldnt turn it around? Because it was clearly evident he didnt know what he was doing both with decision making and actually getting along with players/coaches on his staff. If Shanny had run the team into the ground like Oakland was for 7 years you might actually have a case. But McD didnt inherit a crappy team like that no matter how you and Shiningstar try to spin it.

Northman
04-07-2011, 07:31 PM
I should probably also mention that a lot of that young talent on offense was very immature and an explosive situation building towards an explosion. Cutler - extremely immature who has had several temper tantrum explosions in Denver and Chicago. B. Marshall who has had several immature issues in Denver and Miami, etc.

As a result, not sure how well that offensive talent would have gelled and allowed the Broncos to progress. IMHO they would have ended up imploding based on how some of that young talented has acted on other teams, but we will never know

Thus far i havent seen Cutler behave in the same manner he did in Denver. Marshall will probably always be like that but when he got the ball he still did what he was supposed to do. I think your exaggerating the ego's there but then again with all the turmoil with the Shanny firing/McD immaturity, etc it was bound to come to a head anyway. Smart coaches know how to handle those players which is something that Shanahan and McD failed at.

spikerman
04-07-2011, 07:33 PM
You say rome can't be built in a day, and yet don't allow mcd to complete what he started.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Unfortunately, RC, by the looks of things - if he had been allowed to "finish what he started" the Broncos would have fielded a team with the talent level of a pop warner 2nd string squad.

In my opinion there is nothing to indicate he had this team on the right track. It only looked to be getting worse. Some of his moves almost made it seem like he was deliberately sabotaging the Broncos.**

** I know he wasn't, but the moves were that bad.

dogfish
04-07-2011, 08:45 PM
You say rome can't be built in a day, and yet don't allow mcd to complete what he started.


actually, pat bowlen was the guy the didn't allow McD to complete his destruction. . . north didn't have anything to do with it. . .



:welcome:

Northman
04-07-2011, 08:52 PM
actually, pat bowlen was the guy the didn't allow McD to complete his destruction. . . north didn't have anything to do with it. . .



:welcome:


Shhh, ill take credit for it. :D

dogfish
04-07-2011, 08:57 PM
Shhh, ill take credit for it. :D

get me dareus, then we'll talk. . .


:welcome:

Tned
04-07-2011, 09:06 PM
actually, pat bowlen was the guy the didn't allow McD to complete his destruction. . . north didn't have anything to do with it. . .



:welcome:

Yea, I was thinking about the same thing when I read the post about North not letting McD finish what he started.

I'm not sure what some folks are smoking....

Tned
04-07-2011, 09:07 PM
Shhh, ill take credit for it. :D

Now go trady Quinn for Hillis and a 6th round pick, and I'll give you all kinds of credit.

MileHighCrew
04-07-2011, 09:17 PM
Shhh, ill take credit for it. :D

Forget all of them, since I don't have a direct line to Pat, Thank you Northman for getting rid of the most serious cancer the Broncos have ever faced. :salute:

jhildebrand
04-07-2011, 09:52 PM
You say rome can't be built in a day, and yet don't allow mcd to complete what he started.

Rome may not be built in a day but it certainly can be destroyed in one! When you see that happening, you do whatever it takes to stop it.

Things were getting exponentially worse by the day with McDaniels. If you don't remember he sold his players out, then he sold his coaches out in Bowlen's office, the staff was divided, then he got caught cheating (again), then the losses were piling up and they were blowouts. I call that Rome being destroyed in a day. There was no reason to believe it was going to get better.

TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 10:48 PM
It can mating season, or it can mean hunting season. Take your pick.

If it's hunting season, I'll leave my post as it is.

If mating, then I will change it to "like a bull after a cow in season."



But then, if you're Beef, then that goes to a whole different level . . . :D



-----

With Beef it goes down a rabbit hole so to speak.

TXBRONC
04-07-2011, 11:31 PM
Now go trady Quinn for Hillis and a 6th round pick, and I'll give you all kinds of credit.

A trade like that requires pictures of Holmgren in a compromising position.

BeefStew25
04-07-2011, 11:42 PM
With Beef it goes down a rabbit hole so to speak.

Stay on topic homo.

dogfish
04-08-2011, 12:05 AM
With Beef it goes down a rabbit hole so to speak.

that's not a rabbit hole. . .


:fear:

TXBRONC
04-08-2011, 12:23 AM
Stay on topic homo.

I'm hetero not homo.

Lonestar
04-08-2011, 03:13 AM
Of course, but you cant build Rome in a day. But the point is that finally with the Goodman's and better decision making in the draft we were starting to head in the right direction. The problem for Shanahan is he waited too long to buy the clue. But when you have a nucleus of young talent like we did and your team is at the very least .500 you dont nuke the damn thing and start all over. Its one thing if this team was like the Raiders and spent 7 years winning only 4 or 5 games a year but we were nowhere near that bad.....well, until McDoofus took over anyway.
Yet Josh did not nuke the team and start over iirc jay was about the only starter from 08 that did not start in 09. The others showed they either could not perform Or did
Want tO be here in 09'

Lets not Revise history.
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claymore
04-08-2011, 06:12 AM
Yet Josh did not nuke the team and start over iirc jay was about the only starter from 08 that did not start in 09. The others showed they either could not perform Or did
Want tO be here in 09'

Lets not Revise history.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

We owe McDaniels for the wild horse offense. We will be forever indebted for the 3 yards that it produced.

rcsodak
04-08-2011, 06:28 AM
He started with the offense which didnt need to be burned down and rebuilt. Sorry, not the same thing. Then, when you go to rebuild you have to actually place the right talent there and actually show the improvement which never happened. And any vets he brought in (at least for the most part) were castoffs and has beens which did nothing for this team. You ask how do i know he couldnt turn it around? Because it was clearly evident he didnt know what he was doing both with decision making and actually getting along with players/coaches on his staff. If Shanny had run the team into the ground like Oakland was for 7 years you might actually have a case. But McD didnt inherit a crappy team like that no matter how you and Shiningstar try to spin it.
No way in hades you can say anything about mcd's fa pickups while not holding shannys feet to the fire. Shanny was horrific!
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rcsodak
04-08-2011, 06:29 AM
Unfortunately, RC, by the looks of things - if he had been allowed to "finish what he started" the Broncos would have fielded a team with the talent level of a pop warner 2nd string squad.

In my opinion there is nothing to indicate he had this team on the right track. It only looked to be getting worse. Some of his moves almost made it seem like he was deliberately sabotaging the Broncos.**

** I know he wasn't, but the moves were that bad.

I'll agree there. :lol:
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rcsodak
04-08-2011, 06:30 AM
actually, pat bowlen was the guy the didn't allow McD to complete his destruction. . . north didn't have anything to do with it. . .



:welcome:

Really? By the way some type here, you might think otherwise.

;)
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rcsodak
04-08-2011, 06:31 AM
Yea, I was thinking about the same thing when I read the post about North not letting McD finish what he started.

I'm not sure what some folks are smoking....

Yea....I'm sure you did.

:rolleyes:
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frauschieze
04-08-2011, 06:40 AM
Im just glad we have Lonie Paxton on our roster.



Hes WAY better than Mike Leach ever was.





:coffee:

:mad:

Ya just had to bring it up, didn't you?

Tned
04-08-2011, 06:42 AM
No way in hades you can say anything about mcd's fa pickups while not holding shannys feet to the fire. Shanny was horrific!
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By that logic, nobody can say anything about Shanahan, without also talking about Phillips or Reeves. :confused:

Come on, why do you and Jr refuse to discuss McDaniels on his accomplishments, rather than excusing him by saying, "but, but, but, err, err, but Shanahan was a bad guy....."

Tned
04-08-2011, 06:43 AM
:mad:

Ya just had to bring it up, didn't you?

Was wondering if you would see that.

TXBRONC
04-08-2011, 06:49 AM
:mad:

Ya just had to bring it up, didn't you?

I suppose you can take comfort in the fact McDaniels got the axe. :couch:

frauschieze
04-08-2011, 06:57 AM
I suppose you can take comfort in the fact McDaniels got the axe. :couch:

All thanks to North. :D

Probably will never be able to let that one go entirely (if I did, I would imagine people would wonder when the body snatchers took me), but as for the rest, I'm just glad the blood letting is done. Sure it's hard to look at all the draft picks we're missing, but at the same time, it's possible that if we still had them, we'd still have McD and that, good sir, is not at all a pleasant thought.

TXBRONC
04-08-2011, 07:07 AM
All thanks to North. :D

Probably will never be able to let that one go entirely (if I did, I would imagine people would wonder when the body snatchers took me), but as for the rest, I'm just glad the blood letting is done. Sure it's hard to look at all the draft picks we're missing, but at the same time, it's possible that if we still had them, we'd still have McD and that, good sir, is not at all a pleasant thought.

No it isn't a pleasant thought.

Thankfully we don't have to worry about McDaniels taking the best blocking tight end in the draft with the 2nd overall pick in the draft.

frauschieze
04-08-2011, 07:26 AM
No it isn't a pleasant thought.

Thankfully we don't have to worry about McDaniels taking the best blocking tight end in the draft with the 2nd overall pick in the draft.

Silly TX, everyone knows that taking a one-dimensional player high in the draft is a good strategy if you need to replace a better, but over paid current player on the roster, especially if you don't cut said player and save any money.

Northman
04-08-2011, 07:42 AM
No way in hades you can say anything about mcd's fa pickups while not holding shannys feet to the fire. Shanny was horrific!
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Yes i can. Know why? Because Shanahan was fired, no longer here, gone, ousted. I dont care what Shanny did because HE IS GONE. Why must you and JR deflect to Shanny every time we discuss McD? McD had opportunities to right the ship after Shanny got canned and failed even worse. If you go back and read my posts instead of only staring down with tunnel vision you see i NEVER gave Shanahan any slack for his misgivings. He was accountable for all his screwups and paid the price just like McD. But Shanahan was not the last coach here, McD was and he drove this club into the ground far worse than Shanny ever did. And that there lies the difference.

TXBRONC
04-08-2011, 07:57 AM
Silly TX, everyone knows that taking a one-dimensional player high in the draft is a good strategy if you need to replace a better, but over paid current player on the roster, especially if you don't cut said player and save any money.

I guess I march to the beat of a different drummer.

MNPatsFan
04-08-2011, 08:10 AM
Thus far i havent seen Cutler behave in the same manner he did in Denver.I was just reciting what several of my friends who are Bears fans said and what I have heard or read from several Chicago commentators.


Marshall will probably always be like that but when he got the ball he still did what he was supposed to do.That could have been accurately said about Randy Moss while he was with the Vikings the first time, but he still was a major headache and distraction for the Vikings until they finally traded him.;)



I think your exaggerating the ego's there but then again with all the turmoil with the Shanny firing/McD immaturity, etc it was bound to come to a head anyway.Maybe I am and maybe I'm not, but we will never know. However the Vikings had similar situation with Moss, Culpepper, Cris Carter, etc. and that was an explosive situation that came to a head and tore the team apart.



Smart coaches know how to handle those players which is something that Shanahan and McD failed at.Whose to say that McD failed at it by trading Cutler and Marshall?:confused: Belichik did the exact same thing with Randy Moss this last season and that move is/was considered brilliant.:D


BTW I am just playing devil's advocate and trying to have an intelligent conversation. I don't feel really strongly either way on this matter:salute:

Lonestar
04-08-2011, 09:08 AM
Yes i can. Know why? Because Shanahan was fired, no longer here, gone, ousted. I dont care what Shanny did because HE IS GONE. Why must you and JR deflect to Shanny every time we discuss McD? McD had opportunities to right the ship after Shanny got canned and failed even worse. If you go back and read my posts instead of only staring down with tunnel vision you see i NEVER gave Shanahan any slack for his misgivings. He was accountable for all his screwups and paid the price just like McD. But Shanahan was not the last coach here, McD was and he drove this club into the ground far worse than Shanny ever did. And that there lies the difference.
I guess your not getting thatntue love showed for mikey is almost obsessive even if he was fired for his failures.
If everyone would stop with implied Josh is bad and ruined the dynasty that mikey built then his failures would not have to be brought to light as a reminder that he did not walk on water and his "core" on offense was so great if should have lasted forever.

I understand that in some/most members eyes that anyone from NE is the devil incarnate.
That most wanted Spags or morris because they from the Dside.
But Pat did not want status quo he wanted the O to be the NE model.
Tis unfortunate that jay did not want to play for Josh knowing that he would not put up with his crap. Just could have been a truly great QB,

Say what you want just be logical and truthful you will see my POV.
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Northman
04-08-2011, 09:37 AM
I guess your not getting thatntue love showed for mikey is almost obsessive even if he was fired for his failures.
If everyone would stop with implied Josh is bad and ruined the dynasty that mikey built then his failures would not have to be brought to light as a reminder that he did not walk on water and his "core" on offense was so great if should have lasted forever.

I understand that in some/most members eyes that anyone from NE is the devil incarnate.
That most wanted Spags or morris because they from the Dside.
But Pat did not want status quo he wanted the O to be the NE model.
Tis unfortunate that jay did not want to play for Josh knowing that he would not put up with his crap. Just could have been a truly great QB,

Say what you want just be logical and truthful you will see my POV.
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My god Jr, you're being over dramatic. Really.

Let me just clear a few facts for you since your really struggling with reality here.

1) Yes, Josh was worse than Shanahan. Thats not fiction, thats reality. Not only was it reflected in the win/loss record but also from the loss of talent level, the chaos behind the scenes with players/coaches was ten times worse than it ever was with Shanahan. Just deal with the fact that McD was immature and way in over his head. No, he doesnt get a pass.

2) I have not seen ONE PERSON say that Shanahan was perfect or walked on water. Many of those who would of "preferred" Shanahan to McD have said that Shanahan was better than McD as a coach and that is also fact no matter how bad things had gotten down the stretch with Shanny. But many of those have also pointed out the bad FA's, bad drafting, etc. Its only you that CHOOSES to ignore those parts of the post.

3) Is every coach that comes from NE the devil incarnate? Em, nope. However, NONE of them have had the same success as their mentor and with three prior coaches who failed at the HC level its very easy to understand people's concern when McD took the job. Furthermore, yes people wanted a defensive minded coach and now we have one. Will Fox turn out and fix the team? No idea but at least we now have someone who is going to know the ins and outs of the biggest problem on this team. The fact that both Spags and Morris are having more success than McD did pretty much sums that up mate. There's no doubt their progress at this given time trumps ANYTHING that McD did with this club.

4) Until you have a link proving that Bowlen wanted to have Denver use the NE model your just talking out your ass. Bowlen just wants to win JR. He doesnt care what model we have. And the fact that we took a HC now who doesnt have a winning model in Carolina proves that your totally incorrect on your assumption. As for Jay, it was reported that he was looking forward to playing for joshy so again your incorrect. The turmoil was caused by the lying/sneaking of McD which plagued him all the way to the end.

Considering you and your lovebird are in the minority when it comes to the last two years i think im being quite logical. The last coach to coach the Broncos was McD. Not Shanny. Shanny is gone for failing to get the job done. McD was fired as well because he did not do what he was paid to do and that was to win games. Instead, he initiated total chaos from day one and destroyed and ran this team into the ground, something this organization hasnt seen in DECADES.

Whenever McD is talked about here YOU ARE the one to bring Shanahan into the discussions, not the other way around. The day when you can stop doing that and actually discuss the failures of McD on its own merit is the day people will start to take you more seriously.

Lonestar
04-08-2011, 09:53 AM
Thanks for your heartfelt comments. But it does nothing to change my mind on the love for mikey that is poured out daily here.

Yes I know i should not comment her because I'm not in the majority. But someone has to state the facts that Josh was no worse in player selection than mikey has been for the past decade.

Excepting one year 06 and IMO that is ALSO Debatable mikey blew day one picks for the most part except LB and even then he picked some sculls.

But on one wants those comparisons brought to life.

I'll hear loads of if you do not like it here then just leave. But I'm not going anywhere soon.
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BroncoNut
04-08-2011, 10:03 AM
I think one of Josh's weakness as a HC was that he did not know enough about other positions to use any talent he had in them effectively.

Northman
04-08-2011, 10:10 AM
Thanks for your heartfelt comments. But it does nothing to change my mind on the love for mikey that is poured out daily here.

By all means then, show me the many threads on fans wanting Shanahan to come back. Ill Wait.


Yes I know i should not comment her because I'm not in the majority.

Who said you cannot comment here? Again, leave the drama out.


But someone has to state the facts that Josh was no worse in player selection than mikey has been for the past decade.

Why does someone need to state what people already know? Why do we need to point out Shanny's problems vs McD's when Shanny was ousted in favor of McD? When Shanahan was fired it was perfectly obvious for people to blast him as he was the coach at that time.

And now McD was the last coach who screwed the pooch so why do you feel the need to pull up Shanny's name when it isnt relevant to McD's failures?


But on one wants those comparisons brought to life.

No one wants them because they are irrelevant to McD. As much as you blast Shanny i dont see a line of people bringing up Wade or Reeves so why do you do it? McD's failures are his own.


I'll hear loads of if you do not like it here then just leave. But I'm not going anywhere soon.
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Not saying you need to leave. Just saying you arent taken seriously when your the reason why Shanahan is brought up in discussions. There is no SHANNY LOVE as you call it. So like my first response please feel free to post up links to ALL THE MANY Shanny threads that we have here in the last year.

BroncoNut
04-08-2011, 10:11 AM
I guess I'm not to much into the argument of justifying either of these past coaches, but the Tebow reach last year is kinda interesting to me. It'll be interesting to see how he pans out in the league over the years. I can't imagine him being too happy without starting soon wherever he plays,.

Northman
04-08-2011, 10:11 AM
I think one of Josh's weakness as a HC was that he did not know enough about other positions to use any talent he had in them effectively.


Yea, i think he has a good stategic mind when it comes to moving the ball but as far as scouting, evaluation, and research he is not very good at all and unfortuantely didnt surround himself with people that are either.

TXBRONC
04-08-2011, 10:12 AM
My god Jr, you're being over dramatic. Really.

Let me just clear a few facts for you since your really struggling with reality here.

1) Yes, Josh was worse than Shanahan. Thats not fiction, thats reality. Not only was it reflected in the win/loss record but also from the loss of talent level, the chaos behind the scenes with players/coaches was ten times worse than it ever was with Shanahan. Just deal with the fact that McD was immature and way in over his head. No, he doesnt get a pass.

2) I have not seen ONE PERSON say that Shanahan was perfect or walked on water. Many of those who would of "preferred" Shanahan to McD have said that Shanahan was better than McD as a coach and that is also fact no matter how bad things had gotten down the stretch with Shanny. But many of those have also pointed out the bad FA's, bad drafting, etc. Its only you that CHOOSES to ignore those parts of the post.

3) Is every coach that comes from NE the devil incarnate? Em, nope. However, NONE of them have had the same success as their mentor and with three prior coaches who failed at the HC level its very easy to understand people's concern when McD took the job. Furthermore, yes people wanted a defensive minded coach and now we have one. Will Fox turn out and fix the team? No idea but at least we now have someone who is going to know the ins and outs of the biggest problem on this team. The fact that both Spags and Morris are having more success than McD did pretty much sums that up mate. There's no doubt their progress at this given time trumps ANYTHING that McD did with this club.

4) Until you have a link proving that Bowlen wanted to have Denver use the NE model your just talking out your ass. Bowlen just wants to win JR. He doesnt care what model we have. And the fact that we took a HC now who doesnt have a winning model in Carolina proves that your totally incorrect on your assumption. As for Jay, it was reported that he was looking forward to playing for joshy so again your incorrect. The turmoil was caused by the lying/sneaking of McD which plagued him all the way to the end.

Considering you and your lovebird are in the minority when it comes to the last two years i think im being quite logical. The last coach to coach the Broncos was McD. Not Shanny. Shanny is gone for failing to get the job done. McD was fired as well because he did not do what he was paid to do and that was to win games. Instead, he initiated total chaos from day one and destroyed and ran this team into the ground, something this organization hasnt seen in DECADES.

Whenever McD is talked about here YOU ARE the one to bring Shanahan into the discussions, not the other way around. The day when you can stop doing that and actually discuss the failures of McD on its own merit is the day people will start to take you more seriously.

Excellent post.

I liked Shanahan but I can understand why need to go.

I was supportive of bringing McDaniels initially. I didn't care for all his moves and I thought he was arrogant from the word go but also winning covers a multitude of sins.

For anyone to say that McDaniels was brought in because of the New England is reaching. Unless you were in the room at the time you will never know that for fact. That said, I believe McDaniels for three primary reasons. First and foremost to win games. Second to continue developing the young offensive talent that was already here most especially a young franchise quarterback. Third to fix the defense. I don't think Bowlen one rat's ass what kind schemes he ran. McDaniels could ran a wing offense and 4-4 defense and I don't think from one moment he would've cared as long as he won games.

What I bet my last dollar on is that he didn't bargain for guy who was combative with players and other personnel. Nor do I think Bowlen bargained for a coach who regularly embarrassed his organization because of unethical behavior and lies.

Last of all of the litany in the opening posts is about McDaniels screw up not predecessor did. To bring Shanahan into this is only a deflection.

BroncoNut
04-08-2011, 10:18 AM
Lonestar sounds like he was not all for the firing of JMcD. My gosh, it was inevitable I thought, unless his 3rd season was a breakout. I was fine with the timing of it. I didn't really care to see part 3 cept the Tebow part.

Northman
04-08-2011, 10:21 AM
Excellent post.

I liked Shanahan but I can understand why need to go.

I was supportive of bringing McDaniels initially. I didn't care for all his moves and I thought he was arrogant from the word go but also winning covers a multitude of sins.

For anyone to say that McDaniels was brought in because of the New England is reaching. Unless you were in the room at the time you will never know that for fact. That said, I believe McDaniels for three primary reasons. First and foremost to win games. Second to continue developing the young offensive talent that was already here most especially a young franchise quarterback. Third to fix the defense. I don't think Bowlen one rat's ass what kind schemes he ran. McDaniels could ran a wing offense and 4-4 defense and I don't think from one moment he would cared as long as he won games.

What I bet my last dollar on is that he didn't bargain for guy who was combative with players and other personnel. Nor do I think Bowlen bargained for a coach who regularly embarrassed his organization because of unethical behavior and lies.

Last of all of the litany in the opening posts is about McDaniels screw up not predecessor did. To bring Shanahan into this is only a deflection.


The thing is, every new coach that comes in to a organization has to follow a prior coach who failed. It doesnt matter if its Shanny, Gruden, or whoever. Its what those new coaches do at that point of their own history that defines them. Fact is, McDaniels wasnt ready and not prepared like he thought he was and it showed with how he handled players egos and talent across the board. I dont see a sea of Buc fans defending Morris with "well Gruden left him with this crap". Hell no, there is no scapegoating the prior coach. Spags and Morris are taking care of their own business but doing it the right way. McD may have had the smarter "mind" than those guys in terms of x's and o's. But mentally Spags and Morris were WORLDS ahead in terms of composure and common sense regarding interaction with players/coaches.

Northman
04-08-2011, 10:23 AM
Lonestar sounds like he was not all for the firing of JMcD. My gosh, it was inevitable I thought, unless his 3rd season was a breakout. I was fine with the timing of it. I didn't really care to see part 3 cept the Tebow part.

Agreed.

I find it funny that while JR says that McD was no worse than Shanahan he still claims that McD was a great coach. Sorry, if McD was the same as Shanny than the firing of McD was the right move and better to do it early rather than wait a decade of 4-12 seasons. At least going by JR logic.

BroncoNut
04-08-2011, 10:26 AM
Yea, i think he has a good stategic mind when it comes to moving the ball but as far as scouting, evaluation, and research he is not very good at all and unfortuantely didnt surround himself with people that are either.

that was a biggie.

BORDERLINE
04-08-2011, 10:42 AM
the peyton hillis trade was the worst, McD could have saved his azz if only he would have played him....still pisses me off seeing moreno run for 2 yards when we needed 3 and Hillis not even active..SMH

KCL
04-08-2011, 11:08 AM
Yes i can. Know why? Because Shanahan was fired, no longer here, gone, ousted. I dont care what Shanny did because HE IS GONE. Why must you and dillweed deflect to Shanny every time we discuss McD? McD had opportunities to right the ship after Shanny got canned and failed even worse. If you go back and read my posts instead of only staring down with tunnel vision you see i NEVER gave Shanahan any slack for his misgivings. He was accountable for all his screwups and paid the price just like McD. But Shanahan was not the last coach here, McD was and he drove this club into the ground far worse than Shanny ever did. And that there lies the difference.

Kind of reminds me of people being critical of Obama and people keep bringing Bush up to justify supporting Obama...same difference on a different
level..:lol:

BroncoNut
04-08-2011, 11:13 AM
Kind of reminds me of people being critical of Obama and people keep bringing Bush up to justify supporting Obama...same difference on a different
level..:lol:

yeah, my gosh. who do you point the finger at?

McD reminds me of that roomate you take in thinking it would be a good situation for both and then having "HFS, what is this guy doing to my home and overall sense of peace?" racing through your head constantly. Bowlen just had to stop the bleeding

MNPatsFan
04-08-2011, 11:26 AM
North, I am not picking or trying to pick on you, but just playing devil's advocate regarding the following parts of your post::D


The thing is, every new coach that comes in to a organization has to follow a prior coach who failed.Well not every prior coach failed with that organization because I know that Bill Parcells forced his way out of New England after taking them to the Super Bowl and I believe that Dick Vermeil retired from the Rams after wining the Super Bowl.


Hell no, there is no scapegoating the prior coach.Well unless you are debunking a claim that the prior coach left a "young and up-n-coming team". Then it is okay to point out the fallacy of that claim and scape goat the prior coach and gm.;)


















North, I am just j/king and giving you shit :laugh:

MNPatsFan
04-08-2011, 11:29 AM
Kind of reminds me of people being critical of Obama and people keep bringing Bush up to justify supporting Obama...same difference on a different
level..:lol:Leave it to KCL to bring politics into a football discussion.:tsk:










:laugh:

Edit: I am intentionally refraining from pointing out that there are significant differences between the two situations because don't want to hijack the thread and that discuss belongs in Politics forum which I try to avoid to preserve my sanity and health.:laugh:

KCL
04-08-2011, 11:32 AM
Leave it to KCL to bring politics into a football discussion.:tsk:

:laugh:

Am I right or not? :D Not getting political...just pointing out the obvious.

MNPatsFan
04-08-2011, 11:34 AM
Am I right or not? :D Not getting political...just pointing out the obvious.see my edited post for your answer.

Northman
04-08-2011, 12:36 PM
North, I am not picking or trying to pick on you, but just playing devil's advocate regarding the following parts of your post::D

Well not every prior coach failed with that organization because I know that Bill Parcells forced his way out of New England after taking them to the Super Bowl and I believe that Dick Vermeil retired from the Rams after wining the Super Bowl.

Depends on when they left. You said it yourself, Vermin retired after the Rams SB. But for most coaches when they are replaced its because they have failed to keep the standard up which happened to Shanahan. Thing about Parcells though is he was great in the later years of evaluating and getting talent on the squads but as far as his HC was concerned he wasnt nearly as successful. But bottom line, when a HC gets replaced 98% of time is because the owner is not happy where they are at.


Well unless you are debunking a claim that the prior coach left a "young and up-n-coming team". Then it is okay to point out the fallacy of that claim and scape goat the prior coach and gm.;)

There's no debunking that claim. Ive gone over all this before where the team was in terms of young talent, stats, yadda yadda yadda. Despite the many problems with health, drama, poor coaching between 06'-08' we still fielded a .500 team. Even though McD went .500 in 09' i attribute a LOT of that to Nolan the first half of the season. The fact that he is gone and the team went in the tank only backs up that claim.

I know your playing devil's ad here but i do find it ironic that you would go to such great lengths for a guy who "doesnt" care. ;)


















North, I am just j/king and giving you shit :laugh:[/QUOTE]

Ravage!!!
04-08-2011, 12:50 PM
I should probably also mention that a lot of that young talent on offense was very immature and an explosive situation building towards an explosion. Cutler - extremely immature who has had several temper tantrum explosions in Denver and Chicago. B. Marshall who has had several immature issues in Denver and Miami, etc.

As a result, not sure how well that offensive talent would have gelled and allowed the Broncos to progress. IMHO they would have ended up imploding based on how some of that young talented has acted on other teams, but we will never know

a 23 year old, third year, pro-bowl QB and a top 5 WR, along with one of the top OL's, and a Stud in Hillis... mix in guys like Royal and Scheffler, and this team was ABSOLUTELY up-n-coming... despite your opinion on some "storm" that was brewing.

So I don't think it's a stretch at ALL to say that that this team was up-n-coming considering the nucleus of YOUNG talent on this team. Yes the defense was struggling, but you can't have guys like that on offense and completely ignore that they were only 3 years into the NFL and NOT say this team wasn't on the rise.

McDaniels took everything that was positive on this team, and removed it.

Lonestar
04-08-2011, 12:59 PM
Agreed.

I find it funny that while JR says that McD was no worse than Shanahan he still claims that McD was a great coach. Sorry, if McD was the same as Shanny than the firing of McD was the right move and better to do it early rather than wait a decade of 4-12 seasons. At least going by JR logic.
Please show me where have used in the past year Josh was a great coach.
Because I do not think I have said Josh was a better on the field coach than mikey was in his hey days.

But good try anyway.
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BroncoNut
04-08-2011, 01:08 PM
a 23 year old, third year, pro-bowl QB and a top 5 WR, along with one of the top OL's, and a Stud in Hillis... mix in guys like Royal and Scheffler, and this team was ABSOLUTELY up-n-coming... despite your opinion on some "storm" that was brewing.

So I don't think it's a stretch at ALL to say that that this team was up-n-coming considering the nucleus of YOUNG talent on this team. Yes the defense was struggling, but you can't have guys like that on offense and completely ignore that they were only 3 years into the NFL and NOT say this team wasn't on the rise.

McDaniels took everything that was positive on this team, and removed it.

I agree. I don't know if McDaniel's so much as removed everything good, more that he just wasn't ready to lead a team with the level of talent. Let's face it, talented young athletes tend to know they're good and have that ego. Interface that ego with that of Josh McDaniel's your assigned leader and ... well,... the wheels start to come off. that's my take anyway

dogfish
04-08-2011, 01:11 PM
North, I am just j/king and giving you shit :laugh:

that's my job. . . .

Ravage!!!
04-08-2011, 01:11 PM
Please show me where have used in the past year Josh was a great coach.
Because I do not think I have said Josh was a better on the field coach than mikey was in his hey days.

But good try anyway.
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Then why the defense for him? Who was he better than, and at what phase/part of the game? Where did he excel? What/where did he accomplish? What part, of ANYTHING he did, gives you the confidence that he should have been kept.... OTHER than your dislike for Shanahan (as if that makes a bit of difference when it comes to McD)?

It seems pretty clear, to anyone that has ever read any of your posts for the last number of yars, that your SINGLE reason for defending McD is because you feel that by supporting the FIRING of McD would somehow make it appear as though you wish Shanahan were still here. Its absurd, but thats how you have come across from day one.

If I'm wrong, then at least show some logic and give us the reasoning that you feel McD showed ANYONE.. ANYTHING... that would make us believe he should have been kept. Something?

I mean, it can't be because of the amount of time he was given. After all, you agree that Nolan should have been allowed to leave. You have stated that you don't think the OL coach could do the job after one year (despite your made up conversation). So what in the two seasons, two off-seasons, and two drafts has given you SUCH passion to defend this man at all turns?

Lonestar
04-08-2011, 01:15 PM
the peyton hillis trade was the worst, McD could have saved his azz if only he would have played him....still pisses me off seeing moreno run for 2 yards when we needed 3 and Hillis not even active..SMH

Yet at the time of the trade almost no one besides myself and tned commented on it as a negative.

Most thought good ridance some thought he could have been a good FB But almost no one wanted him as a RB.

At the time we had questions about Orton as a QB, Simms was crap. We needed another QB as a starter Or backup.

Anytw you can trade a 7th round FB for a 1st round QB you make that deal.
Considering that CLE is QB hell since forever he just may have been our starter last year. All for a 7th and change.
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Ravage!!!
04-08-2011, 01:16 PM
I agree. I don't know if McDaniel's so much as removed everything good, more that he just wasn't ready to lead a team with the level of talent. Let's face it, talented young athletes tend to know they're good and have that ego. Interface that ego with that of Josh McDaniel's your assigned leader and ... well,... the wheels start to come off. that's my take anyway

I agree with you, Nut. I'm going to pull a JR here.

I think that McDaniels could see that in NE, Belicheck was THE face of that franchise. He was king, he was ruler, and NO ONE over shadowed Belicheck. Not even Brady. When coming to Denver, he felt that since he ws the HC, he should be treated the same way. Not only by the players, but by the other coaches as well. His ego was/is just TOOOOO big and feels its 'owed' to him that others shall not guess on his judgement, shall not share their opinion, and certainly not question his authority.

Ravage!!!
04-08-2011, 01:18 PM
Yet at the time of the trade almost no one besides myself and tned commented on it as a negative.

Most thought good ridance some thought he could have been a good FB But almost no one wanted him as a RB.

At the time we had questions about Orton as a QB, Simms was crap. We needed another QB as a starter Or backup.

Anytw you can trade a 7th round FB for a 1st round QB you make that deal.
Considering that CLE is QB hell since forever he just may have been our starter last year. All for a 7th and change.
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WHAT!?!?? You and Tned were the only ones to say it was negative??? :lol:

This entire board was UP IN ARMS and split. I remember people like RC saying "big deal, he's only a 7th round FB".. but most were infuriated by this move!

KCL
04-08-2011, 01:26 PM
Please show me where have used in the past year Josh was a great coach.

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I think it's very obvious you feel that way.

BroncoNut
04-08-2011, 01:26 PM
I agree with you, Nut. I'm going to pull a JR here.

I think that McDaniels could see that in NE, Belicheck was THE face of that franchise. He was king, he was ruler, and NO ONE over shadowed Belicheck. Not even Brady. When coming to Denver, he felt that since he ws the HC, he should be treated the same way. Not only by the players, but by the other coaches as well. His ego was/is just TOOOOO big and feels its 'owed' to him that others shall not guess on his judgement, shall not share their opinion, and certainly not question his authority.

that's an interesting take . huh.. I like that. I can see that, he felt above having to earn respect from his players in his position. Interesting stuff.

dogfish
04-08-2011, 02:03 PM
WHAT!?!?? You and Tned were the only ones to say it was negative??? :lol:

This entire board was UP IN ARMS and split. I remember people like RC saying "big deal, he's only a 7th round FB".. but most were infuriated by this move!

it's sad how JR has gotten to the point of just blatantly making shit up to support his arguments. . .

sometimes it's just better to sacrifice your pride a little bit and admit you were wrong. . . .

Tned
04-08-2011, 02:16 PM
it's sad how JR has gotten to the point of just blatantly making shit up to support his arguments. . .

sometimes it's just better to sacrifice your pride a little bit and admit you were wrong. . . .

You're right, I will start.

I was wrong in thinking that joshy was anything but a scourge on this great franchise.

Wow, I do feel better.

MNPatsFan
04-08-2011, 02:58 PM
Depends on when they left. You said it yourself, Vermin retired after the Rams SB. But for most coaches when they are replaced its because they have failed to keep the standard up which happened to Shanahan. Thing about Parcells though is he was great in the later years of evaluating and getting talent on the squads but as far as his HC was concerned he wasnt nearly as successful. But bottom line, when a HC gets replaced 98% of time is because the owner is not happy where they are at.I agree, was just pointing out some exceptions:D


I know your playing devil's ad here but i do find it ironic that you would go to such great lengths for a guy who "doesnt" care. ;)I have nothing better to do.:laugh:

Heaven help me/us if this freaking lockout continues for any length of time!:lol:

MNPatsFan
04-08-2011, 02:59 PM
that's my job. . . .Sorry I wasn't aware of that. I will try to control myself and refrain from doing your job for you.:laugh:

BroncoNut
04-08-2011, 03:00 PM
Pats fan, i'm bored. killing time at a government job that may not be here Tuesday. it's been a while, let's chat

TXBRONC
04-08-2011, 03:13 PM
Please show me where have used in the past year Josh was a great coach.
Because I do not think I have said Josh was a better on the field coach than mikey was in his hey days.

But good try anyway.
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Numerous tiemesyou gloated how great it will be not to have anymore "trap" games and great it will be actually not draft reaches in the first round and how we'll now build a real defense. Also how will now be so much better on offense because we're going get rid of the antiquated zone blocking scheme that everyone one has figured out how we now be so much better in the red zone. Not to mention the numerous times that you down played all of Shanahan accomplishments especially during Denver's Super Bowl runs. You may not have came right out and said McDaniels better the implication was crystal clear that you think joshy is better than Shanahan.

TXBRONC
04-08-2011, 03:15 PM
it's sad how JR has gotten to the point of just blatantly making shit up to support his arguments. . .

sometimes it's just better to sacrifice your pride a little bit and admit you were wrong. . . .

Hell he doesn't even have to do that. All he has do say nothing more about it.

BroncoNut
04-08-2011, 03:19 PM
Pats fan, i'm bored. killing time at a government job that may not be here Tuesday. it's been a while, let's chat

alright, blow me off you insolent litte ass.

Lonestar
04-08-2011, 04:16 PM
Yea, i think he has a good stategic mind when it comes to moving the ball but as far as scouting, evaluation, and research he is not very good at all and unfortuantely didnt surround himself with people that are either.


You are talking about mikey of course.
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MileHighCrew
04-08-2011, 04:19 PM
You are talking about mikey of course.
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I think it applied to the final Shanny years and the entire Josh era

BORDERLINE
04-08-2011, 04:21 PM
Yet at the time of the trade almost no one besides myself and tned commented on it as a negative.

Most thought good ridance some thought he could have been a good FB But almost no one wanted him as a RB.

At the time we had questions about Orton as a QB, Simms was crap. We needed another QB as a starter Or backup.

Anytw you can trade a 7th round FB for a 1st round QB you make that deal.
Considering that CLE is QB hell since forever he just may have been our starter last year. All for a 7th and change.
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Well, I wasn't happy about it that's for sure but i'll say this I was happy for Hillis that guy was nothing but a beast for us when he played and he deserved to get some shine in the NFL too Bad MCdouche did not use him at all he would have found a player with a lot of heart and used that Moreno pick for another defensive player instead..

rcsodak
04-08-2011, 04:55 PM
Kind of reminds me of people being critical of Obama and people keep bringing Bush up to justify supporting Obama...same difference on a different
level..:lol:
Political forum >>>way. :coffee:
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rcsodak
04-08-2011, 05:01 PM
a 23 year old, third year, pro-bowl QB and a top 5 WR, along with one of the top OL's, and a Stud in Hillis... mix in guys like Royal and Scheffler, and this team was ABSOLUTELY up-n-coming... despite your opinion on some "storm" that was brewing.

So I don't think it's a stretch at ALL to say that that this team was up-n-coming considering the nucleus of YOUNG talent on this team. Yes the defense was struggling, but you can't have guys like that on offense and completely ignore that they were only 3 years into the NFL and NOT say this team wasn't on the rise.

McDaniels took everything that was positive on this team, and removed it.

Upncomers =squat.
sf had a 1st rd qb in smith/gore/probowl lb willis/probowl te/1st rd linemen, and your favorite dc head coaching.......they still sucked.
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rcsodak
04-08-2011, 05:06 PM
WHAT!?!?? You and Tned were the only ones to say it was negative??? :lol:

This entire board was UP IN ARMS and split. I remember people like RC saying "big deal, he's only a 7th round FB".. but most were infuriated by this move!

Context, please.
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KCL
04-08-2011, 05:30 PM
Political forum >>>way. :coffee:
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:rolleyes:

Northman
04-08-2011, 05:42 PM
it's sad how JR has gotten to the point of just blatantly making shit up to support his arguments. . .

sometimes it's just better to sacrifice your pride a little bit and admit you were wrong. . . .

Yes, but consider who your talking about.

MNPatsFan
04-08-2011, 05:45 PM
alright, blow me off you insolent litte ass.Sorry, wasn't blowing you off, I was afk attending a meeting.:sorry:

I would love to talk when we are both on. I am always looking for posters who can engage in good discussions.:salute:

Northman
04-08-2011, 05:46 PM
You are talking about mikey of course.
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Actually, it was in reference to McD. However, at the later stages of Shanny's career one could apply that. But, at the very least when Shanny was "good" he got my favorite team two championships. Meanwhile, his replacement was horrible from the word go. At least you can admit that.

nevcraw
04-08-2011, 05:48 PM
Upncomers =squat.
sf had a 1st rd qb in smith/gore/probowl lb willis/probowl te/1st rd linemen, and your favorite dc head coaching.......they still sucked.
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hardly the same thing..

rcsodak
04-08-2011, 06:13 PM
hardly the same thing..
Oh. Ok. Thanks.
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nevcraw
04-08-2011, 06:37 PM
Oh. Ok. Thanks.
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no need for thanks, just looking out --- as a stickler for the truth, I knew you would want to be made aware of your blunder.

atwater27
04-08-2011, 09:59 PM
Political forum >>>way. :coffee:
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:tsk:

BeefStew25
04-08-2011, 10:32 PM
If I saw Junior Avis Lonestar Whiz in person, I would kick him in his cervix.

Lonestar
04-09-2011, 03:58 AM
Actually, it was in reference to McD. However, at the later stages of Shanny's career one could apply that. But, at the very least when Shanny was "good" he got my favorite team two championships. Meanwhile, his replacement was horrible from the word go. At least you can admit that.

Here we go hanging your hats on something mikey did more than a decade ago with one playoff win since. Fading after a great start each year down the strech and always getting our ass kicked in the playoffs bs a guy that Had to completely overhaul the team.
He did not walk into a team that had a HOF QB, OT, TE, almost HOF safety, kicker, WR. Then pull TD out Of his ass in his second draft

As I have stated a great OC but not Much else.
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horsepig
04-09-2011, 04:27 AM
Agreed!! Looking back, it could have been so easy. Get along with and keep the young core of offensive talent and aquire/draft defense.

Just shows how much of a smug idiot he really was. :tsk: Had he done that he would probably still have a head coaching job.

Soooooooo.... glad his smug ass is gone.

Hell, I still think he was either working for Belichik or the "Crypt Keeper".

horsepig
04-09-2011, 04:32 AM
at the Time few if any had any problems with those trades. Not so sure why withhindsite veryone is pisses about them.
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Sorry, my friend, but about 50% of us really wanted Hillis to get his shot, yourself included, if I recall.

Northman
04-09-2011, 08:11 AM
Here we go hanging your hats on something mikey did more than a decade ago with one playoff win since. Fading after a great start each year down the strech and always getting our ass kicked in the playoffs bs a guy that Had to completely overhaul the team.
He did not walk into a team that had a HOF QB, OT, TE, almost HOF safety, kicker, WR. Then pull TD out Of his ass in his second draft

As I have stated a great OC but not Much else.
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So in your opinion the fact that he won 2 championships for us means nothing? Really? REALLY?

Hate to burst your precious bubble my friend but guys like Walsh, Dungy, Johnson, Tomlin, and Belichek all have/had HOF QB's, etc. But of course, unlike those guys Shanny got his HOF QB at the end of his career and not when he was in his prime like the rest of this squad.

I love how you want to claim McD is so great when he did absolutely NOTHING in 2 years but want to discredit a guy who actually won championships.

MNPatsFan
04-09-2011, 08:29 AM
Hate to burst your precious bubble my friend but guys like Walsh, Dungy, Johnson, Tomlin, and Belichek all have/had HOF QB's, etc. But of course, unlike those guys Shanny got his HOF QB at the end of his career and not when he was in his prime like the rest of this squad.Don't want to speak for Lonestar, but I think he was saying that Shanny came to a team that already had a lot of HOF talent on it, while most of the coaches you identified (Walsh, Johnson, Belichik) drafted their HOF QB and talent. Not sure this is accurate or not, but I think Lonestar was claiming that the only potential HOFer Shanny drafted or as he put it "lucked into" is/was TD.

Even if Shanny came to a team stacked with HOF talent (not saying he did because I honestly don't know), Shanny still had to get the most out of that talent in order to win two SBs. All you have to do is look at what happened to Cowboys after Johnson left. Sure Switzer won a SB but he never maximized the talent IMHO.

Northman
04-09-2011, 08:59 AM
Don't want to speak for Lonestar, but I think he was saying that Shanny came to a team that already had a lot of HOF talent on it, while most of the coaches you identified (Walsh, Johnson, Belichik) drafted their HOF QB and talent. Not sure this is accurate or not, but I think Lonestar was claiming that the only potential HOFer Shanny drafted or as he put it "lucked into" is/was TD.

Oh, im positive that is what he is getting at. But see here's the rub. You talk to ANY Bronco fan and they will tell you that Shanny was a terrible GM. ANY fan will tell you that i dont care who it is. I had been talking for years about how Shanny should just be coaching and not doing the GM part of the team. But Shanny's pride got in the way and he wouldnt budge and thus it cost him his job in the end. As far as luck has too do i could easily say that about Belichek. Brady was what? A 7th rounder? Montana a 3rd rounder? Drafting is always about luck but some GM's have a knack for hitting more than missing. Unfortuantely for Shanahan he missed more than he hit especially down the stretch.


Even if Shanny came to a team stacked with HOF talent (not saying he did because I honestly don't know), Shanny still had to get the most out of that talent in order to win two SBs. All you have to do is look at what happened to Cowboys after Johnson left. Sure Switzer won a SB but he never maximized the talent IMHO.When Shanahan came in the Broncos had "some" talent. Obviously Elway was already there and Shanahan was already familiar with him. After the 96' season we discovered that for once in a great lifetime we had a real RB. But it was Shanahan who got guys like Williams, Smith, Gordon, and Griffith. Your correct about Switzer and i would add the guy that followed Bill Walsh in SF as well. Inheriting Steve Young was a blessing for him as well. But you still have to get that team to the SB and thats no easy task.

John went to the SB 5 times in his career, Peyton has only been twice in his but many try to argue he is a better QB than John. Whether you believe it or not doesnt matter but only shows how difficult it really is to even get to the big dance.

At the end of the day MNPats you have to be careful when trying to decipher what LS is trying to convey because he purposely pulls the "im misunderstood" card. He will conviently claim that there is this mass hysteria of love for Shanahan and for his return yet that is completely false. One only needs to browse the board and realize there is no mass group of threads or even posts clamoring to have the guy back.

I watched what Shanny did this year in Wash and ive concluded the guy is done. He didnt learn from his mistake in Denver and totally screwed the pooch again dealing with his players in Wash. Its sad to see but i understand that sometimes the game leaves you behind just like it has for guys like Parcells and Gibbs.

But the crux of the problem with LS is that he maintains that McD was no worse than Shanahan when it came to drafting and FA pickups. Now, pay attention here as i would fully agree.

You did just see that last line right? Because when LS gets on here he will totally IGNORE that.

But the problem is that even with both of those guys being terrible in that area Shanahan still trumps McD EVEN if you take out the two championships. Fact is, Shanahan was still a winner. NO ONE can argue that because his career wins/losses backs up that claim. Sure, his playoff history was terrible but not his regular season wins and losses. Despite his shortcomings Shanahan was still able to keep Denver as a winning franchise and not allow it too crash and burn like McD did.

And that is what the fans on this board have been saying to LS for months now. But he chooses to ignore all that and claim that McD was still a better coach even though there is absolutely nothing to back up that arguement.

At the end of the day for me and for many on here Denver is better off without both Shanahan and McDaniels. Shanny's time had run its course, McDaniels was way in over his head and not ready to be a HC and ruined what was a .500 team loaded with young talent. You can argue all day and long about the "ego's" but you cant argue the talent they possess. Thats just not debateable i dont care who you are.

Ravage!!!
04-09-2011, 11:04 AM
Great post North.

As I've posted before.. Shanahan's record post HoF QB is greater than ANY coach (or franchise) 13 years after the retirement of the HoF QB from that team. So to put down Mike Shanahan for winning fewer games than ANYONE.. EVER.... has after losing a HoF QB from the team is absurd (caveat to the 49ers since they did go from Montana to Young) since no one else...ever.. has done better.

I'll also disagree in Shanahan's performance in Washington this year, but thats another discussion for another day. :beer:

atwater27
04-09-2011, 11:06 AM
Then pull TD out Of his ass in his second draft
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Yeah. no credit for a running back Mr. Shanahan drafted. He was just lucky, right? Everyone in the league knows Shanahan didn't have a knack for drafting running backs.:laugh::tsk::rolleyes: This clearly proves you blind hatred for Shanny, in that even INARGUABLY one of his biggest strengths; his ability to select running backs in the draft, is a strength you are unwilling to give him credit for.:congrats:

rcsodak
04-09-2011, 12:40 PM
:tsk:
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rcsodak
04-09-2011, 12:43 PM
So in your opinion the fact that he won 2 championships for us means nothing? Really? REALLY?

Hate to burst your precious bubble my friend but guys like Walsh, Dungy, Johnson, Tomlin, and Belichek all have/had HOF QB's, etc. But of course, unlike those guys Shanny got his HOF QB at the end of his career and not when he was in his prime like the rest of this squad.

I love how you want to claim McD is so great when he did absolutely NOTHING in 2 years but want to discredit a guy who actually won championships.

Elway was at the end of his career when shanny became HC?
REALLY?
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rcsodak
04-09-2011, 12:51 PM
Yeah. no credit for a running back Mr. Shanahan drafted. He was just lucky, right? Everyone in the league knows Shanahan didn't have a knack for drafting running backs.:laugh::tsk::rolleyes: This clearly proves you blind hatred for Shanny, in that even INARGUABLY one of his biggest strengths; his ability to select running backs in the draft, is a strength you are unwilling to give him credit for.:congrats:

So shanny PURPOSEFULLY waited until the 6th rd to draft a STARTING rb.
LMAO.
6th/7th rd picks are reserved for projects.

BBelicek is no more a genius in drafting Brady than shanny is in taking a chance on a hardly used, backup rb from Ga.
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Lonestar
04-09-2011, 04:43 PM
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Just how many wanted to see him play Prior to all of the RBs go down can count that number on one hand.

Yes lots of folks AFTER he did well in08 wanted him to get a Shot. But about as many others could have cared less because at 240+ he was not a RB just a third and short guy. The mikey mentality of all RB s have to be under 210. Maybe 215. But 240 no way.
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Lonestar
04-09-2011, 04:48 PM
So in your opinion the fact that he won 2 championships for us means nothing? Really? REALLY?

Hate to burst your precious bubble my friend but guys like Walsh, Dungy, Johnson, Tomlin, and Belichek all have/had HOF QB's, etc. But of course, unlike those guys Shanny got his HOF QB at the end of his career and not when he was in his prime like the rest of this squad.

I love how you want to claim McD is so great when he did absolutely NOTHING in 2 years but want to discredit a guy who actually won championships.
Exactly where have I said Josh was so great ? Leta not put words In my posts.

Btw mikey dis absolutely nothing the past ten years he was here either. How many playoff wins did he have and how many ass lickings did we have?
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Lonestar
04-09-2011, 04:50 PM
Don't want to speak for Lonestar, but I think he was saying that Shanny came to a team that already had a lot of HOF talent on it, while most of the coaches you identified (Walsh, Johnson, Belichik) drafted their HOF QB and talent. Not sure this is accurate or not, but I think Lonestar was claiming that the only potential HOFer Shanny drafted or as he put it "lucked into" is/was TD.

Even if Shanny came to a team stacked with HOF talent (not saying he did because I honestly don't know), Shanny still had to get the most out of that talent in order to win two SBs. All you have to do is look at what happened to Cowboys after Johnson left. Sure Switzer won a SB but he never maximized the talent IMHO.
Bingo Thanks for stating the obvious. That no one else can grasp.
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nevcraw
04-09-2011, 05:49 PM
So shanny PURPOSEFULLY waited until the 6th rd to draft a STARTING rb.
LMAO.
6th/7th rd picks are reserved for projects.

BBelicek is no more a genius in drafting Brady than shanny is in taking a chance on a hardly used, backup rb from Ga.Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

but they did draft them.. and then they coached them up, and very importantly understood when and how to use them.

Many coaches have super bowl talent on their team and the good and great ones know how to put it all together. Shanny lost his midas touch with FA's and didn't draft very well but he knew how to place the puzzle pieces and that is why Denver has to 2 Lombardi's.
It baffles me that this concept has not been universally accepted like a round earth..

atwater27
04-09-2011, 05:53 PM
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Even more nuggests of wisdom....

Lonestar
04-09-2011, 06:25 PM
Psst north rod smith was Already on the squad when mikey got to town.

Please do not say that he made him the talent he was because we all know his work ethic would have landed him somewhere and he would have been that talent he turned out to Be. I suspect that other than mikey being the HC when he made good was
About mikeys contribution for his sucess.
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nevcraw
04-09-2011, 06:32 PM
Psst north rod smith was Already on the squad when mikey got to town.

Please do not say that he made him the talent he was because we all know his work ethic would have landed him somewhere and he would have been that talent he turned out to Be. I suspect that other than mikey being the HC when he made good was
About mikeys contribution for his sucess.
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well he canned 2 former high draft pick wr's Miller and prichard and inserted the former PS player in the line up opposite eddie mac. how many coaches would do that?

atwater27
04-09-2011, 08:02 PM
well he canned 2 former high draft pick wr's Miller and prichard and inserted the former PS player in the line up opposite eddie mac. how many coaches would do that?

LMAO.... Considering what McD did to Hillis and company, one can only guess he would have cut Rod Smith had he been the one to take over at that time.

KCL
04-09-2011, 08:56 PM
Even more nuggests of wisdom....

What is that about?

spikerman
04-09-2011, 09:46 PM
How many playoff wins did he have and how many ass lickings did we have?
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I hope from the bottom of my heart that the answer is NONE.

Northman
04-09-2011, 10:09 PM
Psst north rod smith was Already on the squad when mikey got to town.

Please do not say that he made him the talent he was because we all know his work ethic would have landed him somewhere and he would have been that talent he turned out to Be. I suspect that other than mikey being the HC when he made good was
About mikeys contribution for his sucess.
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Wow, you are totally clueless man. Yes, Smith was undrafted in 1994 but NEVER PLAYED A DOWN until 1995. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Furthermore, you claimed there was a GROUP of HOF'rs that he inherited. He only has 3 that are actually in the HOF homie so again, you lose.

Pssst, arent you tired of being wrong? lmao

Northman
04-09-2011, 10:18 PM
Oh, and JR.

Marv Levy coached the Buffalo Bills to 4 straight SB's, lost ALL of them and still made the HOF yet you want to try and convince us that Shanahan isnt a HOF?

Bhwhaahahhahahaahahahahahaa

frauschieze
04-09-2011, 10:31 PM
Elway was at the end of his career when shanny became HC?
REALLY?
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Elway played for 16 years. The last four of those years, from 1995-1998, he played for Shanahan which consisted of 25% of his career.

In other words, Elway was 75% done with his career when Shanahan became head coach.....aka at the end of his career.

Northman
04-09-2011, 10:35 PM
Elway played for 16 years. The last four of those years, from 1995-1998, he played for Shanahan which consisted of 25% of his career.

In other words, Elway was 75% done with his career when Shanahan became head coach.....aka at the end of his career.

You would of thought that was pretty easy to understand. :lol:

Lonestar
04-09-2011, 10:56 PM
Oh, and JR.

Marv Levy coached the Buffalo Bills to 4 straight SB's, lost ALL of them and still made the HOF yet you want to try and convince us that Shanahan isnt a HOF?

Bhwhaahahhahahaahahahahahaa

Guess that was when the standards were lower.

Call me when mikey is nominated.
so far his work in WAS has not been stellar and his failure to win anything without John will be his Waterloo.

They do not induct OC. Or have not so far.
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KCL
04-09-2011, 11:01 PM
Guess that was when the standards were lower.

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Oh Good Lord.....:rolleyes: or maybe I should just :lol:

HORSEPOWER 56
04-10-2011, 06:41 AM
Good Lord, is this thread still alive? It really needs to die a slow, miserable, painful death.


I only have one question... How many people were this passionate about Wade Phillips/Dan Reeves after Phillips got fired? Were there actually people who came out for Phillips and defended him as hard as they are defending McDaniels?

The firing of McDaniels was the best thing this franchise has done since winning Superbowl 33.

claymore
04-10-2011, 06:50 AM
I would like to say Frau has pwned some people over the last couple of days.

rcsodak
04-10-2011, 07:51 AM
well he canned 2 former high draft pick wr's Miller and prichard and inserted the former PS player in the line up opposite eddie mac. how many coaches would do that?

You mean he realized those two were shit?

WOW! I've completely changed my mind of shanny!

THX, CRAW!
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rcsodak
04-10-2011, 08:04 AM
Elway played for 16 years. The last four of those years, from 1995-1998, he played for Shanahan which consisted of 25% of his career.

In other words, Elway was 75% done with his career when Shanahan became head coach.....aka at the end of his career.

Yes, but he'd had shannys tutelage almost since his arrival in the league. Minus his time with san fran and oak, and he still spent plenty of time with elway as his OC/HC. Thats the main reason bowlen kept bringing him back.
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frauschieze
04-10-2011, 10:47 AM
Yes, but he'd had shannys tutelage almost since his arrival in the league. Minus his time with san fran and oak, and he still spent plenty of time with elway as his OC/HC. Thats the main reason bowlen kept bringing him back.
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I totally agree, but what was being discussed is that Shanahan had Elway at the end of his career when he became head coach, unlike other coaches (Walsh, Dungy, Johnson, Tomlin, and Belichick were named) who had/have their HOF QB when they were earlier in their career.

We're not talking about how long Shanahan coached Elway total, only the time spent as head coach, so the rest is inapplicable at this time.

rcsodak
04-10-2011, 10:56 AM
I totally agree, but what was being discussed is that Shanahan had Elway at the end of his career when he became head coach, unlike other coaches (Walsh, Dungy, Johnson, Tomlin, and Belichick were named) who had/have their HOF QB when they were earlier in their career.

We're not talking about how long Shanahan coached Elway total, only the time spent as head coach, so the rest is inapplicable at this time.
K. Mybad for not clarifying.
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nevcraw
04-10-2011, 11:16 AM
You mean he realized those two were shit?

WOW! I've completely changed my mind of shanny!

THX, CRAW!
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dude - you are getting rocked on several fronts, you really want to respond to posts directed at Jr too??

rcsodak
04-10-2011, 11:23 AM
dude - you are getting rocked on several fronts, you really want to respond to posts directed at Jr too??
Haha.....I'm Lights Out Leary. You CAN'T know me out.

Unlike the 'cool club', were not afraid to voice our differing opinions, craw. Right or disagreeable.......there is no wrong. ;)
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atwater27
04-10-2011, 11:32 AM
Haha.....I'm Lights Out Leary. You CAN'T know me out.

Unlike the 'cool club', were not afraid to voice our differing opinions, craw. Right or disagreeable.......there is no wrong. ;)
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You know North, he was part of the rebel club that was cautious about McDaniels from the get go when everyone else was falling over eachother just to kiss his ring.... Oh wait, we were those rebels. RC whatchUtalkinbout? We got our asses handed to us for being skeptical of the boy king. It was like your favorite boss that had been with your company for 20 years getting canned, and some young punk coming in and pissing in everybody's cornflakes right off the bat. Some of us sniffed the bowl of urine flavored cereal, pushed it away and said, 'no thanks'. Then there were those that gobbled it up quick, smiled and asked for another, while talking mad shit about the previous boss whom everyone "used" to love, as well as shaming those who didn't feel like eating the piss flakes. I'm proud to say I was on the right side of recent Broncos history. Too bad I couldn't say the same for others...

nevcraw
04-10-2011, 11:39 AM
Haha.....I'm Lights Out Leary. You CAN'T know me out.

Unlike the 'cool club', were not afraid to voice our differing opinions, craw. Right or disagreeable.......there is no wrong. ;)
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more like "Glass Joe" from punch out.

we don't call it the 'cool club' anymore -- it's now "The Sanctuary for the Non-delusional". I know the group name is a bit clunky but it's all about the function.

atwater27
04-10-2011, 11:48 AM
more like "Glass Joe" from punch out.

we don't call it the 'cool club' anymore -- it's now "The Sanctuary for the Non-delusional". I know the group name is a bit clunky but it's all about the function.

LMAO!! http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=819850915485&id=f70a5f6b6fd61eadd216f08927db2cad&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.deviantart.com%2fdownload%2f8 3914730%2fGlass_Joe_bead_Sprite_01_by_zaghrenaut.j pg

rcsodak
04-10-2011, 12:01 PM
more like "Glass Joe" from punch out.

we don't call it the 'cool club' anymore -- it's now "The Sanctuary for the Non-delusional". I know the group name is a bit clunky but it's all about the function.

So everybody that disagrees, is "delusional".

Gotcha.
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Northman
04-10-2011, 12:04 PM
So everybody that disagrees, is "delusional".

Gotcha.
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In this particular case, yes.

jhildebrand
04-10-2011, 12:10 PM
You know North, he was part of the rebel club that was cautious about McDaniels from the get go when everyone else was falling over eachother just to kiss his ring.... Oh wait, we were those rebels. RC whatchUtalkinbout? We got our asses handed to us for being skeptical of the boy king..

Absolutely. Some of us were ostracized (forcefully in some cases) from other places simply for our unpopular, but correct, view of McDaniels.

Tned
04-10-2011, 12:24 PM
Absolutely. Some of us were ostracized (forcefully in some cases) from other places simply for our unpopular, but correct, view of McDaniels.

Pretty much the same thing happened here. The forum is managed (bannings, rules and such) different, but those pointing out McDaniels flaws and mistakes were brutalized just the same. I still have the scars -- wanna see them.

Lonestar
04-10-2011, 01:18 PM
Haha.....I'm Lights Out Leary. You CAN'T know me out.

Unlike the 'cool club', were not afraid to voice our differing opinions, craw. Right or disagreeable.......there is no wrong. ;)
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Its Just the cool club thinks they can't be wrong. That Josh is totally responsible for the state of the broncos. That their believed mikey had zero sum in how we got to be choosing #2.

Just do not understand how they can see it only that way.
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Tned
04-10-2011, 01:24 PM
Its Just the cool club thinks they can't be wrong. That Josh is totally responsible for the state of the broncos. That their believed mikey had zero sum in how we got to be choosing #2.

Just do not understand how they can see it only that way.
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My Lord can you stretch a topic to get your broken record, Shanahan bashing in play!!

:lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh:

GEM
04-10-2011, 01:27 PM
Just like we dont see how you see it only your way. So save the stupid names (which you have been warned about numerous times) and stick to the topic, which is not Shanahan.

Why don't you and rc go fund a Shanahan bash message board. Instead of turning every ******* thread on Broncos Forums into it.

Agent of Orange
04-10-2011, 01:38 PM
Im surprised that Klis wrote this considering McDaniels was his boyfriend.

nevcraw
04-10-2011, 01:40 PM
Its Just the cool club thinks they can't be wrong. That Josh is totally responsible for the state of the broncos. That their believed mikey had zero sum in how we got to be choosing #2.

Just do not understand how they can see it only that way.Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

not even remotely close to how I see it.. :welcome:

Tned
04-10-2011, 01:40 PM
Just like we dont see how you see it only your way. So save the stupid names (which you have been warned about numerous times) and stick to the topic, which is not Shanahan.

Why don't you and rc go fund a Shanahan bash message board. Instead of turning every ******* thread on Broncos Forums into it.

I'm registering Ihatemikey.com and will have a forum in place for RC and JR/Lonestar within a few hours.....

nevcraw
04-10-2011, 01:45 PM
I'm picturing an old abandoned tree house with a rope swing missing the tire.

Northman
04-10-2011, 01:47 PM
lmao

Tned
04-10-2011, 02:34 PM
I'm picturing an old abandoned tree house with a rope swing missing the tire.

Yea, but members of the cool club know the secret entrance to the ultra cool clubhouse hidden within the dilapidated tree house. Don't tell anyone... ;)

dogfish
04-10-2011, 04:02 PM
I'm registering Ihatemikey.com and will have a forum in place for RC and JR/Lonestar within a few hours.....

i think you should call it joshyworld.com. . .

MNPatsFan
04-10-2011, 04:07 PM
Yea, but members of the cool club know the secret entrance to the ultra cool clubhouse hidden within the dilapidated tree house. Don't tell anyone... ;)Can a Pats fan be a member of the cool club?

Aaaahhhh that is a stupid question. Good faithful Pats fans are automatically members of the cool club based on our 3 SB Championships in the last decade. :D

However, the Pats will need to win another SB Championship soon to maintain our membership in the cool club!:beer:

BTW, based on GEM's message, we probably shouldn't use the term "cool club" because that is a stupid name that might get us temporarily banned.;)

Tned
04-10-2011, 04:16 PM
Can a Pats fan be a member of the cool club?



With avvy and sig images like that, you can be in any club you want!

MNPatsFan
04-10-2011, 04:19 PM
With avvy and sig images like that, you can be in any club you want!:laugh:

:salute:

Northman
04-10-2011, 04:32 PM
Can a Pats fan be a member of the cool club?

Aaaahhhh that is a stupid question. Good faithful Pats fans are automatically members of the cool club based on our 3 SB Championships in the last decade. :D

However, the Pats will need to win another SB Championship soon to maintain our membership in the cool club!:beer:

BTW, based on GEM's message, we probably shouldn't use the term "cool club" because that is a stupid name that might get us temporarily banned.;)


Actually, Pats fans are part of the cheaters club so that counts right? :D

MNPatsFan
04-10-2011, 04:36 PM
Actually, Pats fans are part of the cheaters club so that counts right? :DI don't know, the Pats have ONLY been caught cheating ONCE!

I will have to defer to the Broncos who have been caught and busted TWICE for cheating.:D

spikerman
04-10-2011, 04:44 PM
I don't know, the Pats have ONLY been caught cheating ONCE!

I will have to defer to the Broncos who have been caught and busted TWICE for cheating.:D

Yes, but since the Broncos had the integrity to tell on themselves one of those times (unlike the Pats) I think that should negate the 2nd instance. :D

Denver Native (Carol)
04-10-2011, 05:03 PM
I don't know, the Pats have ONLY been caught cheating ONCE!

I will have to defer to the Broncos who have been caught and busted TWICE for cheating.:D

The KEY word here is CAUGHT:D

Lonestar
04-10-2011, 05:37 PM
Just like we dont see how you see it only your way. So save the stupid names (which you have been warned about numerous times) and stick to the topic, which is not Shanahan.

Why don't you and rc go fund a Shanahan bash message board. Instead of turning every ******* thread on Broncos Forums into it.

Was wondering how long it would take before I was told to leave and go elsewhere.

Iirc just a day or so ago I was told that message boards were for diverse ideas.
Hmmm mm wonder what changed.
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Tned
04-10-2011, 05:40 PM
Was wondering how long it would take before I was told to leave and go elsewhere.

Iirc just a day or so ago I was told that message boards were for diverse ideas.
Hmmm mm wonder what changed.
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Let me go find some wood you can fashion into a cross so you can be a real martyr.... ;)

Lonestar
04-10-2011, 05:42 PM
The KEY word here is CAUGHT:D

That could be a two edged sword that swings both ways.

I suspect there has as much under cover in Denver as in NE. We just did not get caught.
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KCL
04-10-2011, 06:08 PM
WOW to this thread...

you all need to grow up...;)

Tned
04-10-2011, 06:28 PM
That could be a two edged sword that swings both ways.

I suspect there has as much under cover in Denver as in NE. We just did not get caught.
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I suspect that McDaniels was a transvestite, but just did not get caught.

Wow, you're right, this making shit up game is fun...

MNPatsFan
04-10-2011, 06:34 PM
WOW to this thread...

you all need to grow up...;)Grow up ..... or just old like you? ;)


:laugh:





















j/k KCL, you know I love ya :D :beer:

Northman
04-10-2011, 07:07 PM
I dedicate Twisted Sisters "Ill Never Grow Up" to this thread.

KCL
04-10-2011, 07:47 PM
Grow up ..... or just old like you? ;)
:laugh:
j/k KCL, you know I love ya :D :beer:

Grow up...age has nothing to do with it.

Lonestar
04-10-2011, 07:56 PM
Btw there are already forums that do not hate Josh or every move he made.
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dogfish
04-10-2011, 07:58 PM
Btw there are already forums that do not hate Josh or every move he made.
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where?

jhildebrand
04-10-2011, 08:00 PM
where?

St. Louis :D

Tned
04-10-2011, 08:08 PM
Btw there are already forums that do not hate Josh or every move he made.
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Btw, there are forums where thread derailers don't bring up their hate for shanahan in every thread.

KCL
04-10-2011, 08:24 PM
St. Louis :D

Yet....:lol:

spikerman
04-10-2011, 08:25 PM
St. Louis :D

Give them time.

KCL
04-10-2011, 08:33 PM
You never know..McD might do well in SL since he did well in NE...He just wasn't cut out to handle the job in Denver which goes w/o saying.