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Dzone
04-03-2011, 09:02 AM
What do you think of Kiszla's comments?
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_17761622

HORSEPOWER 56
04-03-2011, 09:32 AM
Regardless of what Elway, Fox, Xanders, the fans, Klis, Kizla, or anyone else thinks, Tebow should start for one year to see what the guy has got and see what we have in a QB, IMO. We've made the investment, yes I know it was pre-Elway, but just to write Tebow off as a failed experiment would be foolish right now.

If we're not going to start him in the next year or two, we must trade him, if not whoever starts will be looking over their shoulder and Tebow will divide the fans and locker room just by his presence alone. We spent a 1st round pick on the guy. If we push him aside and look to trade him before he at least has an opportunity to fail or succeed, it will be an even worse failure on our part than Alphonso Smith.

Nobody has ever questioned Tebow's character, work ethic, or heart. I just don't understand why after arguably a very good debut in the 3 games he did start, he hasn't at least earned the chance to play out a whole season before we give up on him. Do we really want to continue with Orton? I don't think Elway does. Do we really want to spend yet another draft pick on yet another rookie QB that might be the franchise, or might be a bust? At least we know Tebow will put in the time and work hard trying to get better and win. Give him a shot. If he fails, fine, replace him. He might just be our future, though...

BroncoJoe
04-03-2011, 09:52 AM
I just cant imagine any reason NOT to give him a chance behind center as the #1 guy. It's not that he's that much better than Orton - they're just completely different QB's. Tebow should get the chance to make or break his NFL career.

chazoe60
04-03-2011, 09:56 AM
Regardless of what Elway, Fox, Xanders, the fans, Klis, Kizla, or anyone else thinks, Tebow should start for one year to see what the guy has got and see what we have in a QB, IMO. We've made the investment, yes I know it was pre-Elway, but just to write Tebow off as a failed experiment would be foolish right now.

If we're not going to start him in the next year or two, we must trade him, if not whoever starts will be looking over their shoulder and Tebow will divide the fans and locker room just by his presence alone. We spent a 1st round pick on the guy. If we push him aside and look to trade him before he at least has an opportunity to fail or succeed, it will be an even worse failure on our part than Alphonso Smith.

Nobody has ever questioned Tebow's character, work ethic, or heart. I just don't understand why after arguably a very good debut in the 3 games he did start, he hasn't at least earned the chance to play out a whole season before we give up on him. Do we really want to continue with Orton? I don't think Elway does. Do we really want to spend yet another draft pick on yet another rookie QB that might be the franchise, or might be a bust? At least we know Tebow will put in the time and work hard trying to get better and win. Give him a shot. If he fails, fine, replace him. He might just be our future, though...

You've just wrote exactly what I've been thinking on this subject since it became an issue. Why in the world would we give up on a guy during a rebuilding year when so much else is wrong with the team?

Dump Orton, give Tebow a one year tryout (and judge that tryout fairly, he shouldn't be held to some ridiculously high standard for a 2nd year player), and push for a QB in next years draft (an infinitely better QB class IMHO) if you feel Tebow can't do it.

Doing anything different makes very little sense to me, but I'm not in charge.

Lonestar
04-03-2011, 10:35 AM
Another Good post HP.

For the most part kiz is a hack. Read most of his stuff and take it with a grain of salt.
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claymore
04-03-2011, 10:56 AM
I trust the coach. The best player will prevail.

Sinthor
04-03-2011, 11:05 AM
What do you think of Kiszla's comments?
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_17761622

This is idiotic pot stirring. The media WANTS Tebowmania to outshine Broncomania...it makes for story.

The bottom line is that a lot of people just want to see Tebow get his shot based on how he played last year and how the whole team seemed to respond with him in there. That's it. If he plays and flops, I doubt you'll see the majority of folk still backing him. People aren't as dumb as the press would like to believe.

Northman
04-03-2011, 11:09 AM
Regardless of what Elway, Fox, Xanders, the fans, Klis, Kizla, or anyone else thinks, Tebow should start for one year to see what the guy has got and see what we have in a QB, IMO. We've made the investment, yes I know it was pre-Elway, but just to write Tebow off as a failed experiment would be foolish right now.

If we're not going to start him in the next year or two, we must trade him, if not whoever starts will be looking over their shoulder and Tebow will divide the fans and locker room just by his presence alone. We spent a 1st round pick on the guy. If we push him aside and look to trade him before he at least has an opportunity to fail or succeed, it will be an even worse failure on our part than Alphonso Smith.

Nobody has ever questioned Tebow's character, work ethic, or heart. I just don't understand why after arguably a very good debut in the 3 games he did start, he hasn't at least earned the chance to play out a whole season before we give up on him. Do we really want to continue with Orton? I don't think Elway does. Do we really want to spend yet another draft pick on yet another rookie QB that might be the franchise, or might be a bust? At least we know Tebow will put in the time and work hard trying to get better and win. Give him a shot. If he fails, fine, replace him. He might just be our future, though...


Great post. I will also add that if after a year he isnt the guy we dont try to force the square peg in the round hole and force him in the lineup just because of jersey sales. In the end it should be about championships and not just selling merch.

Lonestar
04-03-2011, 11:16 AM
I just cant imagine any reason NOT to give him a chance behind center as the #1 guy. It's not that he's that much better than Orton - they're just completely different QB's. Tebow should get the chance to make or break his NFL career.

Not all that sure he is quite ready mentally yet with the reading of defenses. Plus he still has some mechanical issues yet.

Having otas and training camp might have fixed or at least mitigated them some what.

Would hate ro have him pull an Elway and look realy bad and have the fans get On his case about it and give those in the media fuel to hang him in the eyes of the fans.
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Nomad
04-03-2011, 11:19 AM
Elway should not give up on Tebow so easily!!

Lonestar
04-03-2011, 11:22 AM
Have to wonder if going from almost no access to almost to much information might have the Press looking for fodder.

Long time ago they used to be our eyes and ears. and we followed them as the all-knowing.

Now john comes along and almost bypasses them with the tweets.

Is some of this crappy pot stirring because Of that.
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WARHORSE
04-04-2011, 01:01 AM
Elway is going to trade Orton.

Why?

Because we arent going to resign him long term.

Period.


We are looking at QB because we dont know if Tebow is it. That is NOT a knock against him, its just fact. So John is planning in case Tebow shows us hes not the real deal. In other words, he's implementing a PLAN B in case Tim doesnt pan out.

At MINIMUM, Tebow is the best redzone threat in the league, and he has shown value on the field, even if in the end he shows himself to be unable to be under center full time.


But ORTON, he has to leave because as John has already said....we DONT have a franchise QB on our roster. That IS an indictment against Kyle.

So, do you let Kyle start this year and let Tebow sit? Why would we do that? Say Kyle plays fairly well. Now what do you do at the end of the season? You still have an UNKNOWN in Tebow, and now Orton is an UFA. We cant afford to let Orton walk away without getting something in return for him. That is what will happen if he plays out the season in Denver.

Denver would not be smart putting itself in that position.

ONLY way you keep Kyle is because you cant get decent value for Kyle in a trade.

But we can get good value for Kyle after this past season he had. There will be teams who dont draft a QB, who will want to get him. In the right system, with a dominant RB, and good playaction available, Kyle can win games, especially with a good defense.

So, what does our QB situation look like WITHOUT Kyle on the roster?

Tebow and Quinn.

THATS why we're looking at QBs, and I totally believe we will take one IF we think theyre worth the pick (not at #2)because I also believe there are suitors for Orton who have already been calling.

I believe John already has a buyer in place for Orton.


Big John aint dumb.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-04-2011, 02:55 AM
What do you think of Kiszla's comments?
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_17761622

Kizla is pretty skeptical of Tebow, even though he tries to sound like he's in the middle in this singular journal entry.

Personally, I'd like to look at Kilza and say, "problem, what problem? Kizla, you're the freakin problem!" :laugh:

MileHighCrew
04-04-2011, 07:15 AM
I personally agree with all of you however, I can see the point of the NFL (Not For Long) league and Elway and company not wanting to attach themselves to a QB they don't believe in.
And don't forget for a second that John was a QB is he will value that position above others. If he doesn't think Tim has IT or he is the type of QB he wants and he can see a chance to get who he wasnts he might take it.

If I got a vote I would start Tim this year, if he fails I then look to do whatever is needed to get Andrew Luck.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-04-2011, 07:41 AM
I personally agree with all of you however, I can see the point of the NFL (Not For Long) league and Elway and company not wanting to attach themselves to a QB they don't believe in.
And don't forget for a second that John was a QB is he will value that position above others. If he doesn't think Tim has IT or he is the type of QB he wants and he can see a chance to get who he wasnts he might take it.

If I got a vote I would start Tim this year, if he fails I then look to do whatever is needed to get Andrew Luck.

I understand what you're saying, but there's really nothing wrong with the FO really standing behind a QB until he proves he deserves otherwise. It would appear that for the time being, both Elway and Fox are throwing in with Orton (as they've said in pressers). Had they thrown in with Tebow as the starter, that would be fine, too.

I just don't think you can make the statement to the press that "I don't know if we have a franchise QB on the roster". I think it's kinda foolish. It may be exactly how you feel, but as management of a company, I can't say to a 3rd party that "I don't know if I have any good employees right now". It might just backfire and cause your employees to work less instead of working harder.

How many times have you seen someone receive a mediocre or poor evaluation at work and it causes them to work to their new low standard vice work to their potential? The old, "well if nobody appreciates me, I'm going to do as little as possible to get paid then go home" mentality.

The only reason I point this out is because Andy Reed has been faced with this same dilemma the past couple of years with the McNabb, Kolb, Vick thing and he's been very decisive about who his starting QB is. Even if that QB is different from week to week. As a result, I think he's gotten the best out of all of them when they've gotten playing time and at the same time, he's maintained their trade value as high as possible.

We're currently in the same situation with our three QBs. All have ???s but all have been somewhat successful in certain situations. All have trade value and value to the team. By being so publicly "down" on them, I think it negatively affects their value to the team and on the trade market. Much like Tennessee saying they are "done" with Vince Young. Did that raise or lower his value?

The bottom line is, you can look at QBs for draft purposes and even consider drafting one if you get the chance, but just say you're doing your "due diligence and looking at all prospects" without bringing your current players into it. If asked about the current players, you can say you're happy with them but you're always going to look to improve your team any way you can or some other canned answer. Dissing the current QBs, even if it's just a smokescreen, is just bad business. It's really a "Raideresque" move if you ask me... :tsk:

MileHighCrew
04-04-2011, 07:52 AM
This I agree with. IMO the entire Elway on Twitter thing needs to stop and it is a bad way to run the team.
As fans we want the info, but that doesn't mean it is in the best interest of the Broncos to share it all. There is a reason people use pre-fab answers, it is because it is good business and what is the best for the team.
I still understand why they may want to go in a different direction at QB but I agree 100% it shouldn't be stated on Twitter of Facebook.



I understand what you're saying, but there's really nothing wrong with the FO really standing behind a QB until he proves he deserves otherwise. It would appear that for the time being, both Elway and Fox are throwing in with Orton (as they've said in pressers). Had they thrown in with Tebow as the starter, that would be fine, too.

I just don't think you can make the statement to the press that "I don't know if we have a franchise QB on the roster". I think it's kinda foolish. It may be exactly how you feel, but as management of a company, I can't say to a 3rd party that "I don't know if I have any good employees right now". It might just backfire and cause your employees to work less instead of working harder.

How many times have you seen someone receive a mediocre or poor evaluation at work and it causes them to work to their new low standard vice work to their potential? The old, "well if nobody appreciates me, I'm going to do as little as possible to get paid then go home" mentality.

The only reason I point this out is because Andy Reed has been faced with this same dilemma the past couple of years with the McNabb, Kolb, Vick thing and he's been very decisive about who his starting QB is. Even if that QB is different from week to week. As a result, I think he's gotten the best out of all of them when they've gotten playing time and at the same time, he's maintained their trade value as high as possible.

We're currently in the same situation with our three QBs. All have ???s but all have been somewhat successful in certain situations. All have trade value and value to the team. By being so publicly "down" on them, I think it negatively affects their value to the team and on the trade market. Much like Tennessee saying they are "done" with Vince Young. Did that raise or lower his value?

The bottom line is, you can look at QBs for draft purposes and even consider drafting one if you get the chance, but just say you're doing your "due diligence and looking at all prospects" without bringing your current players into it. If asked about the current players, you can say you're happy with them but you're always going to look to improve your team any way you can or some other canned answer. Dissing the current QBs, even if it's just a smokescreen, is just bad business. It's really a "Raideresque" move if you ask me... :tsk:

Lonestar
04-04-2011, 09:45 AM
Just like most coaches the best man plays. The one that can win more games.

The competition should be there to push the starters. Even the threat wil make them work harder.
These are not office workers. They are competitive guys to the inth degree.

Probably nota backup in the NFL that does not work his ass off to become better.
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Lonestar
04-04-2011, 09:47 AM
I might add there is hundreds of thousands of dollars to millions riding on theme getting better.

Not $.20 to .50 per hour ridiing on their review.

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MileHighCrew
04-04-2011, 09:55 AM
Just like most coaches the best man plays. The one that can win more games.

The competition should be there to push the starters. Even the threat wil make them work harder.
These are not office workers. They are competitive guys to the inth degree.

Probably nota backup in the NFL that does not work his ass off to become better.
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But the question is what will he do if he doesn't think the best man for the job is on the roster.

topscribe
04-04-2011, 10:09 AM
Regardless of what Elway, Fox, Xanders, the fans, Klis, Kizla, or anyone else thinks, Tebow should start for one year to see what the guy has got and see what we have in a QB, IMO. We've made the investment, yes I know it was pre-Elway, but just to write Tebow off as a failed experiment would be foolish right now.

If we're not going to start him in the next year or two, we must trade him, if not whoever starts will be looking over their shoulder and Tebow will divide the fans and locker room just by his presence alone. We spent a 1st round pick on the guy. If we push him aside and look to trade him before he at least has an opportunity to fail or succeed, it will be an even worse failure on our part than Alphonso Smith.

Nobody has ever questioned Tebow's character, work ethic, or heart. I just don't understand why after arguably a very good debut in the 3 games he did start, he hasn't at least earned the chance to play out a whole season before we give up on him. Do we really want to continue with Orton? I don't think Elway does. Do we really want to spend yet another draft pick on yet another rookie QB that might be the franchise, or might be a bust? At least we know Tebow will put in the time and work hard trying to get better and win. Give him a shot. If he fails, fine, replace him. He might just be our future, though...

You could not be more wrong, my friend, IMO. The QB who starts should be
the QB who wins the competition to start. Period. Think "hello, you play to
win the game." The better QB of the moment will provide the better chance
of winning. This isn't a laboratory. This is football. Win the games now. Find
out what you have in your second-string QB when the time comes. But don't
force it . . .

-----

HORSEPOWER 56
04-04-2011, 10:11 AM
I might add there is hundreds of thousands of dollars to millions riding on theme getting better.

Not $.20 to .50 per hour ridiing on their review.

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If that was the case, you'd never see players that shut it down after getting that fat contract.

We've got to pay Orton $8 million or whatever outrageous 1 year deal he finagled out of McDaniels/Xanders. I don't think that Kyle is the type of guy that takes criticism well, especially from the FO. If he's going to be here and play this season (which is looking more and more likely with the lack of a CBA), then I want him to play as if his life depends on it, not just get by.

I want a competitor. Kyle already has the "fainting goat" moniker from the lay-down sacks he takes occasionally. If he knows for sure that Elway and Fox don't believe in him and he's a place filler, why would he risk his future health for this team? He won't. He'll only play hard enough to try to keep his starting job - like he did last year.

I don't think what Elway is telling the media helps us AT ALL. I think it will just cause bad feelings between the QBs on the roster and the FO. No matter what they say. Tebow is used to being ripped and doubted by outsiders and it fuels him, but he's never been doubted and talked poorly about as not being "the guy" by his own team before. It would be like UF's athletic director coming out before Tebow's sophomore season and saying, "well, we're always recruting QBs. We love Tim, but we're just not sure we want him to start or that he's our future". How would that have gone down at UF? Would he still have won the Heisman that year or the NC the next?

Elway needs to say what he needs to say to support his current QBs and if he really wants someone else, then draft him. The bottom line is, YOU DON'T AIR YOUR DIRTY LAUNDRY TO THE MEDIA. Not supporting any of your current QBs is "airing your dirty laundry", IMO.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-04-2011, 10:17 AM
You could not be more wrong, my friend, IMO. The QB who starts should be
the QB who wins the competition to start. Period. Think "hello, you play to
win the game." The better QB of the moment will provide the better chance
of winning. This isn't a laboratory. This is football. Win the games now. Find
out what you have in your second-string QB when the time comes. But don't
force it . . .

-----

When you spend a first round pick on a QB, he should at least be given the opportunity to start. You've paid the money, you've made the investment. You can use the term "competition" all you want, but TC competition really doesn't mean much. It might help show who has the best knowledge of the playbook, but it definitely won't show who will play the best when the bullets start flying. Anyone QB worth his salt can stand there in a "no-contact" practice jersey and be a human juggs machine and look great. I've seen Orton play for 2 seasons. I'm ready to see someone else... even if it's Brady Quinn.

topscribe
04-04-2011, 10:23 AM
When you spend a first round pick on a QB, he should at least be given the opportunity to start. You've paid the money, you've made the investment. You can use the term "competition" all you want, but TC competition really doesn't mean much. It might help show who has the best knowledge of the playbook, but it definitely won't show who will play the best when the bullets start flying. Anyone QB worth his salt can stand there in a "no-contact" practice jersey and be a human juggs machine and look great. I've seen Orton play for 2 seasons. I'm ready to see someone else... even if it's Brady Quinn.

No, when your first-string QB shows on the practice field that he looks like a
starter, and looks like the best one to start right now, then you give him the
opportunity to start. Obviously, Tebow has not looked that way to experienced,
perspicacious coaches so far. When he does, he will start. Until then, he won't.
I'm sure that's how Fox, in his wisdom of years in the NFL, works.

The coaches aren't worried about what you or I are ready to see. They are
intent on winning games, however they are going to win them. They do that
with the best players on the field. Period. If they are not going to be that way,
then I want them gone. And I'll bet you Elway feels the same way . . .

-----

Nomad
04-04-2011, 10:29 AM
Elway needs to say what he needs to say to support his current QBs and if he really wants someone else, then draft him. The bottom line is, YOU DON'T AIR YOUR DIRTY LAUNDRY TO THE MEDIA. Not supporting any of your current QBs is "airing your dirty laundry", IMO.

Smokescreen or not.......All I can say, he was a legend on the field and now an unproven NFL FO VP who talks too much!! Hopefully he can back it up.

SOCALORADO.
04-04-2011, 11:24 AM
Smokescreen or not.......All I can say, he was a legend on the field and now an unproven NFL FO VP who talks too much!! Hopefully he can back it up.

John Elway has won trophies for his game face alone.

GEM
04-04-2011, 04:50 PM
No, when your first-string QB shows on the practice field that he looks like a
starter, and looks like the best one to start right now, then you give him the
opportunity to start. Obviously, Tebow has not looked that way to experienced,
perspicacious coaches so far. When he does, he will start. Until then, he won't.
I'm sure that's how Fox, in his wisdom of years in the NFL, works.

The coaches aren't worried about what you or I are ready to see. They are
intent on winning games, however they are going to win them. They do that
with the best players on the field. Period. If they are not going to be that way,
then I want them gone. And I'll bet you Elway feels the same way . . .

-----

Top, what are you going to do come football time if Tebow gets the start over Orton? :confused: I know you will always be a Broncos fan, I am in no way questioning if you'll still be here. I know you'll be here if Bozo the clown were the QB. What I am asking is, will you be on board and this protective of Tebow?

rcsodak
04-04-2011, 05:55 PM
Elway is going to trade Orton.

Why?

Because we arent going to resign him long term.

Period.


We are looking at QB because we dont know if Tebow is it. That is NOT a knock against him, its just fact. So John is planning in case Tebow shows us hes not the real deal. In other words, he's implementing a PLAN B in case Tim doesnt pan out.

At MINIMUM, Tebow is the best redzone threat in the league, and he has shown value on the field, even if in the end he shows himself to be unable to be under center full time.


But ORTON, he has to leave because as John has already said....we DONT have a franchise QB on our roster. That IS an indictment against Kyle.

So, do you let Kyle start this year and let Tebow sit? Why would we do that? Say Kyle plays fairly well. Now what do you do at the end of the season? You still have an UNKNOWN in Tebow, and now Orton is an UFA. We cant afford to let Orton walk away without getting something in return for him. That is what will happen if he plays out the season in Denver.

Denver would not be smart putting itself in that position.

ONLY way you keep Kyle is because you cant get decent value for Kyle in a trade.

But we can get good value for Kyle after this past season he had. There will be teams who dont draft a QB, who will want to get him. In the right system, with a dominant RB, and good playaction available, Kyle can win games, especially with a good defense.

So, what does our QB situation look like WITHOUT Kyle on the roster?

Tebow and Quinn.

THATS why we're looking at QBs, and I totally believe we will take one IF we think theyre worth the pick (not at #2)because I also believe there are suitors for Orton who have already been calling.

I believe John already has a buyer in place for Orton.


Big John aint dumb.

I believe they've said they" don't KNOW" if they have a FQB on the roster.
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GEM
04-04-2011, 05:59 PM
If you don't know, but you may, you don't waste a #2 on anyone that isn't rated that high. This year, there are no QB's that rank #2 in the draft, except for Newton who is there only in the conversation because of hype.

If anything, grab our D guy at #2, build D in the draft. Bungle the upcoming season for #1 next season, grab Luck, trade Tebow and Orton and garner enough picks to build offense in next year's draft.

Northman
04-04-2011, 06:04 PM
You could not be more wrong, my friend, IMO. The QB who starts should be
the QB who wins the competition to start. Period. Think "hello, you play to
win the game." The better QB of the moment will provide the better chance
of winning. This isn't a laboratory. This is football. Win the games now. Find
out what you have in your second-string QB when the time comes. But don't
force it . . .

-----

I dont think we would be forcing it by having Tebow start. We were 4-12 man. What once was a .500 team looking to shore up the defense and tweak the offense is now a true rebuild and with that is finding out what you have in your young QB.

rcsodak
04-04-2011, 06:08 PM
I understand what you're saying, but there's really nothing wrong with the FO really standing behind a QB until he proves he deserves otherwise. It would appear that for the time being, both Elway and Fox are throwing in with Orton (as they've said in pressers). Had they thrown in with Tebow as the starter, that would be fine, too.

I just don't think you can make the statement to the press that "I don't know if we have a franchise QB on the roster". I think it's kinda foolish. It may be exactly how you feel, but as management of a company, I can't say to a 3rd party that "I don't know if I have any good employees right now". It might just backfire and cause your employees to work less instead of working harder.

How many times have you seen someone receive a mediocre or poor evaluation at work and it causes them to work to their new low standard vice work to their potential? The old, "well if nobody appreciates me, I'm going to do as little as possible to get paid then go home" mentality.

The only reason I point this out is because Andy Reed has been faced with this same dilemma the past couple of years with the McNabb, Kolb, Vick thing and he's been very decisive about who his starting QB is. Even if that QB is different from week to week. As a result, I think he's gotten the best out of all of them when they've gotten playing time and at the same time, he's maintained their trade value as high as possible.

We're currently in the same situation with our three QBs. All have ???s but all have been somewhat successful in certain situations. All have trade value and value to the team. By being so publicly "down" on them, I think it negatively affects their value to the team and on the trade market. Much like Tennessee saying they are "done" with Vince Young. Did that raise or lower his value?

The bottom line is, you can look at QBs for draft purposes and even consider drafting one if you get the chance, but just say you're doing your "due diligence and looking at all prospects" without bringing your current players into it. If asked about the current players, you can say you're happy with them but you're always going to look to improve your team any way you can or some other canned answer. Dissing the current QBs, even if it's just a smokescreen, is just bad business. It's really a "Raideresque" move if you ask me... :tsk:
I honestly believe id you ask 30 teams on their assessment of denvers qb situation, you're going to get a comsensus that matches what the FO is saying. KO proved through his play that he is the starter. That in getting injured, in a go nowhere season, it allowed TT to get some playing time. And in that playing time, he proved that he has heart, desire AND problems.
Now, its up to the labor deal, and then the FO, to decide how this season is going to evolve (practices/ota's/tc/fagency, etc), with win NOW or get younger/better.

And I also think Tenn's action have nothing to do with vy's worth. That's ALL ON HIM!
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rcsodak
04-04-2011, 06:15 PM
If that was the case, you'd never see players that shut it down after getting that fat contract.

We've got to pay Orton $8 million or whatever outrageous 1 year deal he finagled out of McDaniels/Xanders. I don't think that Kyle is the type of guy that takes criticism well, especially from the FO. If he's going to be here and play this season (which is looking more and more likely with the lack of a CBA), then I want him to play as if his life depends on it, not just get by.

I want a competitor. Kyle already has the "fainting goat" moniker from the lay-down sacks he takes occasionally. If he knows for sure that Elway and Fox don't believe in him and he's a place filler, why would he risk his future health for this team? He won't. He'll only play hard enough to try to keep his starting job - like he did last year.

I don't think what Elway is telling the media helps us AT ALL. I think it will just cause bad feelings between the QBs on the roster and the FO. No matter what they say. Tebow is used to being ripped and doubted by outsiders and it fuels him, but he's never been doubted and talked poorly about as not being "the guy" by his own team before. It would be like UF's athletic director coming out before Tebow's sophomore season and saying, "well, we're always recruting QBs. We love Tim, but we're just not sure we want him to start or that he's our future". How would that have gone down at UF? Would he still have won the Heisman that year or the NC the next?

Elway needs to say what he needs to say to support his current QBs and if he really wants someone else, then draft him. The bottom line is, YOU DON'T AIR YOUR DIRTY LAUNDRY TO THE MEDIA. Not supporting any of your current QBs is "airing your dirty laundry", IMO.
The problem with your scenarios, is after tyis year, KO is again a FA and playing for a new contract.
But you WILL see them lay down... like TPryces 2nd contract. He DID lay down...and then got hurt. Then he was butt hurt when shanny wouldn't overpay him again....though at one time he DID say he felt he let the team/fans down after getting his money.

That's why I like the multiple annual contract idea that's been used on occasion.
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HORSEPOWER 56
04-04-2011, 07:48 PM
I honestly believe id you ask 30 teams on their assessment of denvers qb situation, you're going to get a comsensus that matches what the FO is saying. KO proved through his play that he is the starter. That in getting injured, in a go nowhere season, it allowed TT to get some playing time. And in that playing time, he proved that he has heart, desire AND problems.
Now, its up to the labor deal, and then the FO, to decide how this season is going to evolve (practices/ota's/tc/fagency, etc), with win NOW or get younger/better.

And I also think Tenn's action have nothing to do with vy's worth. That's ALL ON HIM!
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So, you totally support Elway basically calling out all of our QBs as garbage (essentially what he said when he said "I don't know if there's a franchise QB on the roster")? This isn't about Kyle Orton being the starter. This is about Elway telling the media in no uncertain terms that he isn't comfortable with our current QBs and if given the opportunity, he will go get his guy. I've made my case for Tebow and Orton and who I'd like to see get the start, and this topic really has nothing to do with either.

As for VY, had Tennessee just kept their mouth shut and gone through the proper channels, VY would have probably been able to be traded for something of value. Now, it's likely they'll just have to release him. Press releases are for good news or damage control, not to publicly complain about your players. I don't know why any FO would do business this way...

rcsodak
04-04-2011, 09:35 PM
So, you totally support Elway basically calling out all of our QBs as garbage (essentially what he said when he said "I don't know if there's a franchise QB on the roster")? This isn't about Kyle Orton being the starter. This is about Elway telling the media in no uncertain terms that he isn't comfortable with our current QBs and if given the opportunity, he will go get his guy. I've made my case for Tebow and Orton and who I'd like to see get the start, and this topic really has nothing to do with either.

As for VY, had Tennessee just kept their mouth shut and gone through the proper channels, VY would have probably been able to be traded for something of value. Now, it's likely they'll just have to release him. Press releases are for good news or damage control, not to publicly complain about you players. I don't know why any FO would do business this way...

Well, I'm not sure how many teams are out there that are in the market for a QB who's quit on his team not once, but twice, in the few years he's had. Do you? I mean, it didn't take Fischer or the owner saying anything about it, it was pretty obvious he's got issues (I'll say maturity, but actually mean mental, for pc reasons *wink*)

As for elway's remarks, what are you wanting him to say? He's been with the team for how many months? He's seen them practice how many times this year?
I think you're letting his words get to you.

Why let it bug you so much? Other teams have tape on Orton's last two years in denver. Do you really think they need to hear from a noob, regardless of his playing days, that KO's a franchise qb? If that was the case, then TT would be relegated to being Kevin Kolb, and sitting on the bench, waiting for an injury, or old age to take out Orton.

I just don't understand all the angst over his comments. I highly doubt they're going to make/break his FO career, or the team's draft.
:shrugs:

HORSEPOWER 56
04-04-2011, 09:50 PM
Well, I'm not sure how many teams are out there that are in the market for a QB who's quit on his team not once, but twice, in the few years he's had. Do you? I mean, it didn't take Fischer or the owner saying anything about it, it was pretty obvious he's got issues (I'll say maturity, but actually mean mental, for pc reasons *wink*)

As for elway's remarks, what are you wanting him to say? He's been with the team for how many months? He's seen them practice how many times this year?
I think you're letting his words get to you.

Why let it bug you so much? Other teams have tape on Orton's last two years in denver. Do you really think they need to hear from a noob, regardless of his playing days, that KO's a franchise qb? If that was the case, then TT would be relegated to being Kevin Kolb, and sitting on the bench, waiting for an injury, or old age to take out Orton.

I just don't understand all the angst over his comments. I highly doubt they're going to make/break his FO career, or the team's draft.
:shrugs:

You're probably right about Elway's comments. I just can't stand teams that seem to want to run their organization through the media. Keep the bad shit in house. What's so hard about that? I hated it when Shanny called guys out to the media, I hated when McDaniels did it, and I'm going to hate it when Elway does it. It makes them seem like they are shirking their responsibility and playing the "don't blame me if stuff doesn't go right, it's the players' fault, and by the way, they aren't my guys" card to garner some kind of sympathy from the fans.

IMO, the fans DON'T need or want to hear that the FO has no faith in our current QBs. If they don't, they have the power to make personnel changes and I'd prefer they be a surprise. All the talking that Elway has done regarding our QB situation since he got here has been perceived as negative. It's sad that someone I respect as much as John feels the need to do this.

I'm starting to get the sinking feeling that John is completely serious. That we're going to blow a draft pick (either the #2 overall or a second rounder) on one of the overrated clown QBs in this class. It would serve John right to get rid of Orton and Tebow and draft some clown like Gabbert, Newton, or Locker, pay them $50 Million guaranteed, and then have them bust as hard as Russel or Leaf all the while NOT fixing the defense.

The fact that the FO is even considering something this ludicrous means that their priorities are all jacked up.

topscribe
04-04-2011, 10:45 PM
Top, what are you going to do come football time if Tebow gets the start over Orton? :confused: I know you will always be a Broncos fan, I am in no way questioning if you'll still be here. I know you'll be here if Bozo the clown were the QB. What I am asking is, will you be on board and this protective of Tebow?

Protective? Are you letting your imagination run away with you again? I simply
said the better QB will start. I did not say it necessarily will be Orton. I said
the better QB. Period. How is that protecting Orton? Why don't you stop
making my comments what they are not? Wow. What is it with you?

-----

topscribe
04-04-2011, 10:53 PM
I dont think we would be forcing it by having Tebow start. We were 4-12 man. What once was a .500 team looking to shore up the defense and tweak the offense is now a true rebuild and with that is finding out what you have in your young QB.

We are not going to have Tebow start. We are not going to have Orton start.
Coach Fox will decide that. And he will decide who has the best chance of
winning games. Whoever that will be. What I have said is the way it is. It is the
rest of you who are living in fantasy land. Coach Fox will be the boss in deciding
who will start. He is a coach, not a chemist. He will play to win, not to
experiment. Whoever Coach Fox decides gives the best chance to win will play.
Period. I don't know what there is about this that would cause rational
person to debate.

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GEM
04-04-2011, 11:36 PM
Protective? Are you letting your imagination run away with you again? I simply
said the better QB will start. I did not say it necessarily will be Orton. I said
the better QB. Period. How is that protecting Orton? Why don't you stop
making my comments what they are not? Wow. What is it with you?

-----

Note to self: don't ask top a civil question.

Don't bother with an answer, it's just not worth trying to talk civilly about it. I asked a simple question and you come back with that? The better question is what is with you. Don't bother answering that either. Kiddie time and walking on eggshell time in broncoland has grown tiresome.

topscribe
04-04-2011, 11:56 PM
Note to self: don't ask top a civil question.

Don't bother with an answer, it's just not worth trying to talk civilly about it. I asked a simple question and you come back with that? The better question is what is with you. Don't bother answering that either. Kiddie time and walking on eggshell time in broncoland has grown tiresome.

You were rubbing a raw sore. The problem is not one of maturity: it is one of
reading comprehension. I was not "protecting" Orton. I was saying the Fox was
going to run a competition and may the best man win. That should have been
very easy to understand. But, once again, I became the topic . . .

The thing about it was I was engaged in a civil conversation until that came up.
Once again.

-----

GEM
04-05-2011, 07:20 AM
You were rubbing a raw sore. The problem is not one of maturity: it is one of
reading comprehension. I was not "protecting" Orton. I was saying the Fox was
going to run a competition and may the best man win. That should have been
very easy to understand. But, once again, I became the topic . . .

The thing about it was I was engaged in a civil conversation until that came up.
Once again.

-----

I did not make you the freaking topic. I asked you a question about the freaking topic.

rcsodak
04-05-2011, 08:37 AM
You were rubbing a raw sore. The problem is not one of maturity: it is one of
reading comprehension. I was not "protecting" Orton. I was saying the Fox was
going to run a competition and may the best man win. That should have been
very easy to understand. But, once again, I became the topic . . .

The thing about it was I was engaged in a civil conversation until that came up.
Once again.

-----
Welcome aboard, top. Is obviousthat since we are not comformists, we're the enemy.
I just laughed, out loud actually, when I saw that question. :tsk:
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rcsodak
04-05-2011, 08:42 AM
I did not make you the freaking topic. I asked you a question about the freaking topic.I noticed a twinge of innuendo.



:couch:
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TXBRONC
04-05-2011, 08:46 AM
You were rubbing a raw sore. The problem is not one of maturity: it is one of
reading comprehension. I was not "protecting" Orton. I was saying the Fox was
going to run a competition and may the best man win. That should have been
very easy to understand. But, once again, I became the topic . . .

The thing about it was I was engaged in a civil conversation until that came up.
Once again.

-----

Honestly I think she was trying to be civil.

TXBRONC
04-05-2011, 08:48 AM
I noticed a twinge of innuendo.



:couch:
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:focus:

rcsodak
04-05-2011, 09:16 AM
You're probably right about Elway's comments. I just can't stand teams that seem to want to run their organization through the media. Keep the bad shit in house. What's so hard about that? I hated it when Shanny called guys out to the media, I hated when McDaniels did it, and I'm going to hate it when Elway does it. It makes them seem like they are shirking their responsibility and playing the "don't blame me if stuff doesn't go right, it's the players' fault, and by the way, they aren't my guys" card to garner some kind of sympathy from the fans.

IMO, the fans DON'T need or want to hear that the FO has no faith in our current QBs. If they don't, they have the power to make personnel changes and I'd prefer they be a surprise. All the talking that Elway has done regarding our QB situation since he got here has been perceived as negative. It's sad that someone I respect as much as John feels the need to do this.

I'm starting to get the sinking feeling that John is completely serious. That we're going to blow a draft pick (either the #2 overall or a second rounder) on one of the overrated clown QBs in this class. It would serve John right to get rid of Orton and Tebow and draft some clown like Gabbert, Newton, or Locker, pay them $50 Million guaranteed, and then have them bust as hard as Russel or Leaf all the while NOT fixing the defense.

The fact that the FO is even considering something this ludicrous means that their priorities are all jacked up.

Well, I do agree with you about je's openness. At times, I catch myself saying **** to the radio. But he thinks this is what the fans want after McD's constant coach talk.
:shrugs:
4/28 can't get here soon enough.
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GEM
04-05-2011, 09:25 AM
I noticed a twinge of innuendo.



:couch:
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Rc, I am going to put this as civil as I possibly can. I can't put you on ignore, so I woyld appreciate it if you would stop baiting me. Leave me the hell alone and I will do the same for you.

Lonestar
04-05-2011, 09:29 AM
I'll state this again.

Reporters write stories to SELL newspapers, magazines or ad space on radio/tv.

They have their biases and agendas.

Trying to read more out of a simple comment (that perhaps should not have been said in public) accomplishes selling ad space keeping ones job.

Why it is a two page thread is beyond me.

The facts are Fox and John will determine the future of this franchise good or bad. We fans are just along for the ride.
Always hoping that John can work magic in the FO like he did on the field.

I hope he will slow down the wily comments.

That sAid FQB are overrated and hoping to get one early in the draft is silly. They come from all parts of the draft.

Iirc Marino was 23rd Farve middle rounds and acquired via a trade. NE guy 6th round.
Yes there are top choices who are great FQB but there also are more busts than FQBs.
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TXBRONC
04-05-2011, 09:35 AM
Favre was taken the 2nd round pick of 1991 draft.

rcsodak
04-05-2011, 10:44 AM
Rc, I am going to put this as civil as I possibly can. I can't put you on ignore, so I woyld appreciate it if you would stop baiting me. Leave me the hell alone and I will do the same for you.

Works for me.
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topscribe
04-05-2011, 01:37 PM
Wow, all I did was to explain that Elway and Fox, in their own words, were
planning to have the respective QBs compete for the job, and all hell breaks
loose. Somewhere in that explanation, I am "protecting" Orton, and now it has
become a great big point of contention.

And now we have a guy who is not a mod, trying to be a mod.

Just wow. :noidea:

-----

KCL
04-05-2011, 01:40 PM
And now we have a guy who is not a mod, trying to be a mod.

Just wow. :noidea:

-----

I told rc to stop trying to be a mod...but he's stubborn and won't
listen to me...he never listens to me...:tsk:

topscribe
04-05-2011, 01:40 PM
I told rc to stop trying to be a mod...but he's stubborn and won't
listen to me...he never listens to me...:tsk:

:laugh: RC, too? I never noticed that . . .

-----

KCL
04-05-2011, 01:42 PM
RC, too? I never noticed that . . .

-----

I'm telling you...he is S-T-U-B-B-O-R-N!!!

topscribe
04-05-2011, 01:43 PM
I'm telling you...he is S-T-U-B-B-O-R-N!!!

He is that! :lol:

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KCL
04-05-2011, 01:44 PM
He is that! :lol:

-----

Yep..I like to think I know him pretty well...:lol:

rcsodak
04-05-2011, 02:25 PM
Yep..I like to think I know him pretty well...:lol:
Pillow talk doesnt count
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rcsodak
04-05-2011, 02:30 PM
:laugh: RC, too? I never noticed that . . .

-----
Id be the best mod ever
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KCL
04-05-2011, 02:31 PM
Id be the best mod ever
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You'd be the only one on the board...:lol:

KCL
04-05-2011, 02:32 PM
Pillow talk doesnt count
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You don't know such a thing....:rolleyes:

rcsodak
04-05-2011, 02:33 PM
You'd be the only one on the board...:lol:
Nah....

I'd be fair and give everybody a fair trial, ala slick willy.

And THEN BOOT EM.

:lol:
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KCL
04-05-2011, 02:34 PM
:focus:

:mod: -------------->ME trying to act like a mod.

rcsodak
04-05-2011, 02:35 PM
:focus:

:mod: -------------->ME trying to act like a mod.

See! Again, getting blamed. :tsk:
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KCL
04-05-2011, 02:38 PM
See! Again, getting blamed. :tsk:
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Not blaming anyone...just better off not getting off topic which I started to do...I didn't say anything about YOU...well except uh.....nevermind.

focus

rcsodak
04-05-2011, 02:43 PM
Not blaming anyone...just better off not getting off topic which I started to do...I didn't say anything about YOU...well except uh.....nevermind.

focus
:binoculars:
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