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WARHORSE
04-01-2011, 03:18 PM
Wondering why the quote is on a Bengals site.

But anyway, I wouldnt be surprised if this were true. While Miller played OLB in a 3-4, hes 6'3" 240. He pretty much rushed the passer every play from a standup DE position. Thing I noticed was he pretty much is in the backfield every single play. He at times is so explosive, he moves before the LT does.

He can play 4-3 DE easily, having a body that can add weight, and would be a terror coming off the edge.

Him and Doom with a couple of mean space eating DTs would be killer.


If you look at say, Robert Quinn, who I really like, Quinn is 6' 4" and 265. So Miller would have to add some weight, but he has even more elite skills than Quinn, Bowers or any of the other pass rushing DEs.



On top of that, they say Miller is perfect character/leadership wise.

Its the offseason.:coffee:



http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Mini-Mock-maxed-on-maybes/6c70a640-6f0d-4c6c-bb6b-ca5da61517e4

Ravage!!!
04-01-2011, 03:23 PM
That pick doesn't make sense to me, considering we need DTs and Safety long before we need another DE.

I would love a MLB later in the draft, but I'm betting we roll with Mays. Just seems that with Ayers and Dum on the team, spending a high round pick on that position is a waste. You can only have so many of them on the field at the same time. If Ayers continues to play as badly as he has this coming season, then we can look to replace him.

TXBRONC
04-01-2011, 03:31 PM
That pick doesn't make sense to me, considering we need DTs and Safety long before we need another DE.

I would love a MLB later in the draft, but I'm betting we roll with Mays. Just seems that with Ayers and Dum on the team, spending a high round pick on that position is a waste. You can only have so many of them on the field at the same time. If Ayers continues to play as badly as he has this coming season, then we can look to replace him.

Not only this but rushing from a stand up position doesn't necessarily mean he could put his hand the dirt and rush the passer a 4-3 defensive end. Maybe he can but I wouldn't assume it.

WARHORSE
04-01-2011, 04:08 PM
How many rush DEs coming out of college are transitioned to play 3-4 OLB?

That of course is a far greater transition than a 3-4 rush OLB to a hand in the dirt 4-3 DE.

Besides, while rushing from a standup position most of the time, 34 OLBs put their hand in the dirt like a 43 DE many times.



Why Miller over say Dareus, Fairley or Quinn?

Im not saying I would do that cause Im not up close and personal with these guys.

But Von Miller can play DE in the 43, and dominate. He has that ability and it shows up on film. He wakes up with it in the morning.


All Im saying is if Denver believes in him as a DE, I can easily see the pick cause skillwise, hes the best pass rusher in the draft.

They wouldnt be drafting him to play LBer that high.

Von Miller plays on the end of the line, outside the tackle. He led the NCAA in sacks.

Watch tape of him and the guy can turn the corner like Freeney just off pure athleticism.

And once again, at 6'3", he can add weight.


The guy is a beast.

dogfish
04-01-2011, 05:04 PM
sorry, but this doesn't work for me. . .


besides, klis only wishes elway would honestly tell him what's goin' down. . . he doesn't know what the broncos are going to do in the draft any more than anyone here. . .

sneakers
04-01-2011, 05:05 PM
Why can't we just be happy with the second pick in the draft?? We afraid we gonna screw it up so badly we have to trade back because we cant handle the responsibility?

topscribe
04-01-2011, 05:08 PM
Why can't we just be happy with the second pick in the draft?? We afraid we gonna screw it up so badly we have to trade back because we cant handle the responsibility?

Maybe it's because we've already seen so many busts . . .

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sneakers
04-01-2011, 05:23 PM
Maybe it's because we've already seen so many busts . . .

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The lions drafted 2 turds of WRs before they got a good one. :lol:

dogfish
04-01-2011, 05:25 PM
The lions drafted 2 turds of WRs before they got a good one. :lol:

actually, three. . .

broncobryce
04-01-2011, 05:38 PM
He is WAY too small to play DE. Unless you mean passing downs only. If he was out there on a running down the other team would never pass with him on one side and Elvis on the other.....sorry I just don't see it as DE. Now LB, possibly.

Ravage!!!
04-01-2011, 05:40 PM
Why can't we just be happy with the second pick in the draft?? We afraid we gonna screw it up so badly we have to trade back because we cant handle the responsibility?

I think because our team has so many needs, its usually the general thought that more picks are better than few.

topscribe
04-01-2011, 05:42 PM
He is WAY too small to play DE. Unless you mean passing downs only. If he was out there on a running down the other team would never pass with him on one side and Elvis on the other.....sorry I just don't see it as DE. Now LB, possibly.

Actually, he might make a terrific fit at MLB. Maybe even blue-chipper.

But are they willing to gamble a #2 to find that out?

Personally, while Miller is a beast, I believe he would not be a good fit, especially with Fairley in the wings . . .

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Dzone
04-01-2011, 05:51 PM
Miller creates matchup problems all over the field. Best defensive player in draft along with Peterson. Both very versatile. Wont be too disappointed if we pick either one of those guys.

SR
04-01-2011, 07:12 PM
Wondering why the quote is on a Bengals site.

But anyway, I wouldnt be surprised if this were true. While Miller played OLB in a 3-4, hes 6'3" 240. He pretty much rushed the passer every play from a standup DE position. Thing I noticed was he pretty much is in the backfield every single play. He at times is so explosive, he moves before the LT does.

He can play 4-3 DE easily, having a body that can add weight, and would be a terror coming off the edge.

Him and Doom with a couple of mean space eating DTs would be killer.


If you look at say, Robert Quinn, who I really like, Quinn is 6' 4" and 265. So Miller would have to add some weight, but he has even more elite skills than Quinn, Bowers or any of the other pass rushing DEs.



On top of that, they say Miller is perfect character/leadership wise.

Its the offseason.:coffee:



http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Mini-Mock-maxed-on-maybes/6c70a640-6f0d-4c6c-bb6b-ca5da61517e4


This is exactly where the Broncos have been going wrong with their draft picks over the years. The Broncos need to quit drafting players and having them try different positions. It doesn't work. It worked with Doom, but how many other times did it NOT work? How about...now this might be crazy because of the logic involved...the Broncos draft a player they need that plays a position they need and allow said player to play their position.

If Denver drafts Von Miller, it's a stupid stupid stupid idea to try to make him gain weight and play defensive end. If Denver drafts Von Miller, who need I remind you is an outside linebacker, he needs to play linebacker.

WARHORSE
04-02-2011, 05:53 AM
He is WAY too small to play DE. Unless you mean passing downs only. If he was out there on a running down the other team would never pass with him on one side and Elvis on the other.....sorry I just don't see it as DE. Now LB, possibly.

Hes not too small and can play right now at DE on passing downs without a hitch. A move to be an every down player in the 43 would require he add some more weight..........but its not like its gonna take foreever. Best pass rusher in the draft. Explosive. High end speed. Nonstop motor. Whats not to like?



This is exactly where the Broncos have been going wrong with their draft picks over the years. The Broncos need to quit drafting players and having them try different positions. It doesn't work. It worked with Doom, but how many other times did it NOT work? How about...now this might be crazy because of the logic involved...the Broncos draft a player they need that plays a position they need and allow said player to play their position.

If Denver drafts Von Miller, it's a stupid stupid stupid idea to try to make him gain weight and play defensive end. If Denver drafts Von Miller, who need I remind you is an outside linebacker, he needs to play linebacker.


Impact player. Thats all we need. No matter the position. As for moving OLBs to DEs and vice versa, it happens all the time with success.

claymore
04-02-2011, 06:32 AM
This is exactly where the Broncos have been going wrong with their draft picks over the years. The Broncos need to quit drafting players and having them try different positions. It doesn't work. It worked with Doom, but how many other times did it NOT work? How about...now this might be crazy because of the logic involved...the Broncos draft a player they need that plays a position they need and allow said player to play their position.

If Denver drafts Von Miller, it's a stupid stupid stupid idea to try to make him gain weight and play defensive end. If Denver drafts Von Miller, who need I remind you is an outside linebacker, he needs to play linebacker.

We draft for need and end up reaching. We need to draft for BPA at every spot. There isnt a player on this team outside of Bailey that we couldnt upgrade. So DONT reach!!!

TXBRONC
04-02-2011, 08:14 AM
We draft for need and end up reaching. We need to draft for BPA at every spot. There isnt a player on this team outside of Bailey that we couldnt upgrade. So DONT reach!!!

No team ever drafts BPA at every spot Clay. If Dareus is available when we draft and we take him I don't think it will be reach.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-02-2011, 08:31 AM
Seriously, all these people who continually make cases for Peterson or Von Miller at #2 really need to reevaluate draft pick value.

No CB has ever been taken #2 overall. The value just isn't there. The difference between a guy like Peterson and the field is much smaller than a guy like Fairley or Dareus and the field. Seriously, if Peterson was 200 lbs instead of 219 lbs, would anyone even be having this discussion? The fact the Peterson runs in the 4.3s at 220 lbs is impressive, but he's not even the best man CB (Amukamara) or zone CB (probably Williams) in this draft.

As for Von Miller, once again, he's an OLB. The last OLB who went in the top 5 was Aaron Curry. He was just as fast and athletic coming out of college as Von Miller is. How has he turned out? There's a reason that LBs typically aren't taken until the middle of the 1st round, the value isn't there. Without a solid DL, great LBs are NEUTRALIZED (just like DBs)... why can't people understand this? If we ran a 3-4, Von Miller might be worth a look at #2 because the 3-4 OLB has the same value as a pass rusher the 4-3 DE which is a premium position.

Even the mighty Ray Lewis wouldn't be "Ray Lewis" without the big uglies in front of him who make him look good. Check the stats. When Siragusa and Adams left Baltimore, Lewis' numbers took a nosedive. People actually thought he was done. He complained about it and the Ravens drafted him a Haloti Ngata. Now look at him. Playing like he was 25 again because his D-line keeps him clean and allows him to flow to the ball.

Only DL have the ability to really set the tempo on defense. If they are whipping their blocker, even if they are not making tackles or sacks, they are freeing up those LBs to make tackles or forcing quick throws from the QBs which helps the secondary. This is why the value is there as a top 5 selection. Without the DL, the rest of the defense falls apart. Just like on offense, if you can't block, you can't run or pass.

While guys like Von Miller and Patrick Peterson are both excellent prospects and seem to be relatively "safe" picks, they won't be able to really improve this defense without the D-line being improved first. Peterson, like any other CB can't cover WRs for 5+ seconds all the time and Miller, like all other LBs in the 4-3, can't flow to the ball and make plays if he's constantly being blocked by a free O-lineman or getting caught up in the wash because the D-line is getting driven backward all the time.

I'm not a coach or scout, but it really doesn't make sense to me to draft a guy at #2 overall that still requires DL help to make an impact. We might as well just draft AJ Green if we're trying to be "safe". I read all about all of these DL prospects that we can probably get in the second (Paea, Austin, Taylor, etc) but that's a risk. Everyone knows that once that run on D-linemen starts, it's going to go quick because no team wants to miss out. If it starts mid-1st round, these guys could easily be gone leaving us the scraps and reaching for 3rd round or worse prospects in the 2nd because we took a CB or LB at #2 instead of addressing DT. You're also not going to convince me that guys like Austin/Paea are an acceptable substitute for Dareus/Fairley, either. If they were, they'd be ranked in the top 10 instead of the late 1st, early 2nd.

Northman
04-02-2011, 08:43 AM
That pick doesn't make sense to me, considering we need DTs and Safety long before we need another DE.

I would love a MLB later in the draft, but I'm betting we roll with Mays. Just seems that with Ayers and Dum on the team, spending a high round pick on that position is a waste. You can only have so many of them on the field at the same time. If Ayers continues to play as badly as he has this coming season, then we can look to replace him.

Yep, pretty much how i feel.

SoCalImport
04-02-2011, 09:17 AM
That pick doesn't make sense to me, considering we need DTs and Safety long before we need another DE.


It's this and our draft position that has me starting to think that maybe we don't pas on a talent like PP.
For my money if it's not Marcell Dareus, I'd be happy with either Patrick Peterson or Von Miller at our 2 spot. It's not like we don't have the rest of the draft to address the D-line.

LTC Pain
04-02-2011, 10:09 AM
Seriously, all these people who continually make cases for Peterson or Von Miller at #2 really need to reevaluate draft pick value.

No CB has ever been taken #2 overall. The value just isn't there. The difference between a guy like Peterson and the field is much smaller than a guy like Fairley or Dareus and the field. Seriously, if Peterson was 200 lbs instead of 219 lbs, would anyone even be having this discussion? The fact the Peterson runs in the 4.3s at 220 lbs is impressive, but he's not even the best man CB (Amukamara) or zone CB (probably Williams) in this draft.

As for Von Miller, once again, he's an OLB. The last OLB who went in the top 5 was Aaron Curry. He was just as fast and athletic coming out of college as Von Miller is. How has he turned out? There's a reason that LBs typically aren't taken until the middle of the 1st round, the value isn't there. Without a solid DL, great LBs are NEUTRALIZED (just like DBs)... why can't people understand this? If we ran a 3-4, Von Miller might be worth a look at #2 because the 3-4 OLB has the same value as a pass rusher the 4-3 DE which is a premium position.

Even the mighty Ray Lewis wouldn't be "Ray Lewis" without the big uglies in front of him who make him look good. Check the stats. When Siragusa and Adams left Baltimore, Lewis' numbers took a nosedive. People actually thought he was done. He complained about it and the Ravens drafted him a Haloti Ngata. Now look at him. Playing like he was 25 again because his D-line keeps him clean and allows him to flow to the ball.

Only DL have the ability to really set the tempo on defense. If they are whipping their blocker, even if they are not making tackles or sacks, they are freeing up those LBs to make tackles or forcing quick throws from the QBs which helps the secondary. This is why the value is there as a top 5 selection. Without the DL, the rest of the defense falls apart. Just like on offense, if you can't block, you can't run or pass.

While guys like Von Miller and Patrick Peterson are both excellent prospects and seem to be relatively "safe" picks, they won't be able to really improve this defense without the D-line being improved first. Peterson, like any other CB can't cover WRs for 5+ seconds all the time and Miller, like all other LBs in the 4-3, can't flow to the ball and make plays if he's constantly being blocked by a free O-lineman or getting caught up in the wash because the D-line is getting driven backward all the time.

I'm not a coach or scout, but it really doesn't make sense to me to draft a guy at #2 overall that still requires DL help to make an impact. We might as well just draft AJ Green if we're trying to be "safe". I read all about all of these DL prospects that we can probably get in the second (Paea, Austin, Taylor, etc) but that's a risk. Everyone knows that once that run on D-linemen starts, it's going to go quick because no team wants to miss out. If it starts mid-1st round, these guys could easily be gone leaving us the scraps and reaching for 3rd round or worse prospects in the 2nd because we took a CB or LB at #2 instead of addressing DT. You're also not going to convince me that guys like Austin/Paea are an acceptable substitute for Dareus/Fairley, either. If they were, they'd be ranked in the top 10 instead of the late 1st, early 2nd.

Thanks HP 56!

Lonestar
04-02-2011, 10:25 AM
Great post HP. To big to quote in a mobile mode.

The teams that control the Los are the consistent winners.

They get beat from time to time but they are the ones in the playoffs consistently.
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Lonestar
04-02-2011, 10:30 AM
We have neglected the Dl for decades. Last number one pick in 1998 and then again in 09.

The great consistent teams are using day one and now two picks atleast every other year to keep the Dl current and fresh.
They have spares in case some one goes down. We barely have 2 real starters let alone 4 with bonafide back ups.
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rcsodak
04-02-2011, 10:32 AM
How many rush DEs coming out of college are transitioned to play 3-4 OLB?

That of course is a far greater transition than a 3-4 rush OLB to a hand in the dirt 4-3 DE.

Besides, while rushing from a standup position most of the time, 34 OLBs put their hand in the dirt like a 43 DE many times.



Why Miller over say Dareus, Fairley or Quinn?

Im not saying I would do that cause Im not up close and personal with these guys.

But Von Miller can play DE in the 43, and dominate. He has that ability and it shows up on film. He wakes up with it in the morning.


All Im saying is if Denver believes in him as a DE, I can easily see the pick cause skillwise, hes the best pass rusher in the draft.

They wouldnt be drafting him to play LBer that high.

Von Miller plays on the end of the line, outside the tackle. He led the NCAA in sacks.

Watch tape of him and the guy can turn the corner like Freeney just off pure athleticism.

And once again, at 6'3", he can add weight.


The guy is a beast.

You add weight, you lose speed. Speed is his only asset.
He belongs in a 34.
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Lonestar
04-02-2011, 10:35 AM
Might I add qe have been living with their casts offa for years their Hand me downs or has Beens and paying premimum dollars for them.

Really a dumb way of doing business.
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rcsodak
04-02-2011, 10:39 AM
It's this and our draft position that has me starting to think that maybe we don't pas on a talent like PP.
For my money if it's not Marcell Dareus, I'd be happy with either Patrick Peterson or Von Miller at our 2 spot. It's not like we don't have the rest of the draft to address the D-line.
Haven't we witnessed that way of drafting the last 10+yrs? Why do you think denver is drafting #2?
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SmilinAssasSin27
04-02-2011, 11:00 AM
dareus...peterson isn't the defensive gem everyone makes him out to be. his value is added due to his return ability. And Miller as a 4-3 OLB if we DO trade back would be ok, but hardly at DE. We'd have the Colts D and get run all over for a decade.

Nomad
04-02-2011, 11:18 AM
Good read, HP56! Hopefully the BRONCOS listen!

TXBRONC
04-02-2011, 11:55 AM
dareus...peterson isn't the defensive gem everyone makes him out to be. his value is added due to his return ability. And Miller as a 4-3 OLB if we DO trade back would be ok, but hardly at DE. We'd have the Colts D and get run all over for a decade.

To me bfd if we don't take a guy with return skills. Dareus isn't a big risk. If he is a bigger risk than Peterson then difference is paper freakin thin.

rcsodak
04-02-2011, 12:09 PM
To me bfd if we don't take a guy with return skills. Dareus isn't a big risk. If he is a bigger risk than Peterson then difference is paper freakin thin.
I think PP falls, after they negated kickoff returns. That was one of his saving graces.
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TXBRONC
04-02-2011, 12:53 PM
I think PP falls, after they negated kickoff returns. That was one of his saving graces.
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I think he's more a punt returner than kickoff returner but that's neither here nor there. SA who regularly watches the SEC said something to the effect that Peterson had trouble handling Julio Jones.

rcsodak
04-02-2011, 01:20 PM
I think he's more a punt returner than kickoff returner but that's neither here nor there. SA who regularly watches the SEC said something to the effect that Peterson had trouble handling Julio Jones.
SA? Is that our resident baseball coach...? Cuz that guy in in love with PP and thinks he'll be a HOF'r his 1st year! Lol
(Yes, I exaggerate)
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Nomad
04-02-2011, 01:47 PM
I think he's more a punt returner than kickoff returner but that's neither here nor there. SA who regularly watches the SEC said something to the effect that Peterson had trouble handling Julio Jones.

Perhaps in 2008 with that long fade over the shoulder to Jones, it was one play. Peterson had a big play in 2009 on Jones that was a BS call (no int...ruled his foot was out of bounds), but bad calls happen and the big 73 yd TD out pass for Jones, PP wasn't even covering, I don't even think he was in the game! I would say the Jones/Peterson matchup over the last 3 yrs has been even!

I wouldn't say in any matchup Peterson had real troubles with any receiver but no one's a perfect playmaker and there were a couple plays blown. He's a very good CB with being a returner as a bonus! I try to watch all the LSU games.....sometimes the cupcake games aren't shown.....but overall I tend to watch them all!

Whoever drafts PP won't regret it because he's only gonna get better!! But I hope Denver drafts Dareus or Fairley!!

rcsodak
04-02-2011, 01:49 PM
Perhaps in 2008 with that long fade over the shoulder to Jones, it was one play. Peterson had a big play in 2009 on Jones that was a BS call (no int...ruled his foot was out of bounds), but bad calls happen and the big 73 yd TD out pass for Jones, PP wasn't even covering, I don't even think he was in the game! I would say the Jones/Peterson matchup over the last 3 yrs has been even!

I wouldn't say in any matchup Peterson had real troubles with any receiver but no one's a perfect playmaker and there were a couple plays blown. He's a very good CB with being a returner as a bonus! I try to watch all the LSU games.....sometimes the cupcake games aren't shown.....but overall I tend to watch them all!

Whoever drafts PP won't regret it because he's only gonna get better!! But I hope Denver drafts Dareus or Fairley!!

Is he a cb or fs in the nfl?
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Nomad
04-02-2011, 02:00 PM
Is he a cb or fs in the nfl?
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I believe he'd be solid at both positions. BTW, who's SA?

rcsodak
04-02-2011, 02:03 PM
I believe he'd be solid at both positions. BTW, who's SA?
Dunno.....asked that of tx.
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WARHORSE
04-02-2011, 02:40 PM
If Denver would be taking Miller, I dont believe it will be to play LBer. That would not make sense for the pick selection. I agree with that.

Teams dont use the number 2 pick in the draft to take a LBer.

Miller in the role of a 43 WSLB would be a mistake, not because he cant do it, but because he hasnt done it.

For those who dont understand the difference between a 34 rush LBer and a WSLB in the 34, you will never understand the comparison. They are completely different types of roles. While Miller has the ability, gaining the knowledge to be able to play without thinking, being able to react, takes lots of reps.

I only understand this pick if he moves to DE.

Have you watched him play? Hes in the backfield almost the entire game. He brings constant pressure to the QB. As a DE, his ability to rush the passer is second to none in the draft. All one has to do is look at Doom. Whether rush 34 LBer or 43 DE, he brings the pressure.

So it would definitely be addressing the Dline, not the LBing corp.

What are the benefits of having a player like Miller?

His speed. His athleticism. His repertoire of pass rush moves. His ability to stand. His ability to drop. His ability to put his hand in the dirt. His ability to disengage and play the run(needs work).


We will have the flexibility to play 43 and 34.


Once again, this is the best pass rusher in the draft.

This draft not only has 9 plus DEs with first round grades, it has a number of DTs with first round grades as well.


Having two dominant edge rushers like Doom and Miller, adding really good DTs in round two would do wonders to change our defensive frontline play.

Marvin Austin in round two? What a steal.

Im not saying we will take Miller. This discussion is only looking at the reasonability of taking Miller. Would we?


I dont think so. BUT, if we do, then its because Denver has great belief in his playing DE.

bcbronc
04-02-2011, 02:46 PM
Seriously, all these people who continually make cases for Peterson or Von Miller at #2 really need to reevaluate draft pick value.



This way of thinking is quickly becoming obsolete. There was a time not too long ago when TEs didn't go top 5, or interior lineman didn't go in the first round. Teams now recognize the importance of having players that make the team better rather than taking lower ranked players at more 'valuable' positions.

Top ranked QBs and DL/OT will always hold the most value because they're the hardest skill sets to find. But draft pick value based on position played has been going out the window the past few years, and even more so if a rookie cap comes in.

with that said, I'd puke if we took Miller #2. There's so many good DEs in this draft, it makes zero sense to take a LB if we want one. And I view WILL as more of 'the cherry on top' of a good 43 defense; we have too many more pressing needs to take Miller as a WILL. I'd love to see us get a DE in the 2nd, someone that can rotate and replace Doom in running situations.

WARHORSE
04-02-2011, 02:49 PM
This way of thinking is quickly becoming obsolete. There was a time not too long ago when TEs didn't go top 5, or interior lineman didn't go in the first round. Teams now recognize the importance of having players that make the team better rather than taking lower ranked players at more 'valuable' positions.

Top ranked QBs and DL/OT will always hold the most value because they're the hardest skill sets to find. But draft pick value based on position played has been going out the window the past few years, and even more so if a rookie cap comes in.

with that said, I'd puke if we took Miller #2. There's so many good DEs in this draft, it makes zero sense to take a LB if we want one. And I view WILL as more of 'the cherry on top' of a good 43 defense; we have too many more pressing needs to take Miller as a WILL. I'd love to see us get a DE in the 2nd, someone that can rotate and replace Doom in running situations.


Id puke too if we took him as a WSLB........only team that takes him as a LBer is a 34 team.


But I still understand his value as a DE.

And his adding weight will not impact the way he gets to the passer.

rcsodak
04-02-2011, 02:52 PM
This way of thinking is quickly becoming obsolete. There was a time not too long ago when TEs didn't go top 5, or interior lineman didn't go in the first round. Teams now recognize the importance of having players that make the team better rather than taking lower ranked players at more 'valuable' positions.

Top ranked QBs and DL/OT will always hold the most value because they're the hardest skill sets to find. But draft pick value based on position played has been going out the window the past few years, and even more so if a rookie cap comes in.

with that said, I'd puke if we took Miller #2. There's so many good DEs in this draft, it makes zero sense to take a LB if we want one. And I view WILL as more of 'the cherry on top' of a good 43 defense; we have too many more pressing needs to take Miller as a WILL. I'd love to see us get a DE in the 2nd, someone that can rotate and replace Doom in running situations.

Listened to a mock yesterday on sirius nfl.
Dareus
Harckerson
Wilson

2a had me scratching my head.
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Dzone
04-02-2011, 03:31 PM
how far has Daquan Bowers fallen?

Superchop 7
04-02-2011, 05:53 PM
Pretty sure I told you guys about this.

Truth is.....if we don't get a deal to trade back to get Miller.....

We will get a QB.......period.

When John draws a line in the sand...........don't cross it.

Denver Native (Carol)
04-02-2011, 06:01 PM
how far has Daquan Bowers fallen?

According to this, Kirwan us taking him at 2

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/mock-drafts?module=HP_cp2

dogfish
04-02-2011, 06:24 PM
According to this, Kirwan us taking him at 2

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/mock-drafts?module=HP_cp2

wow. . . kirwan should be ashamed to put such garbage out there with his name on it-- no chance bowers goes that high, everyone knows his knee's not right. . . hell, the colts just scheduled a meeting with him, and they don't trade up-- that says that bill polian, one of the best draft minds around, thinks bowers could fall all the way to the end of the round. . .

bcbronc
04-02-2011, 06:40 PM
wow. . . kirwan should be ashamed to put such garbage out there with his name on it-- no chance bowers goes that high, everyone knows his knee's not right. . . hell, the colts just scheduled a meeting with him, and they don't trade up-- that says that bill polian, one of the best draft minds around, thinks bowers could fall all the way to the end of the round. . .

off topic a bit here, but I've always wondered whether teams will bring guys in who they think could end up on a division rival just to get some up close and personal scouting in.

If Indy thinks Bowers could end up in Ten, Jax, or Houston...all somewhat realistic possibilities...they might want to bring him in and see what he can do and what he can't. Probably a bit of a stretch, but who knows.

Denver Native (Carol)
04-02-2011, 06:42 PM
Clemson defensive end Da'Quan Bowers believes he made his point to NFL teams Friday: His right knee is fine.

"I'm 100 percent," Bowers said after holding his pro day at Clemson's Memorial Stadium. "I still have a lot of work to do. Still strengthening and getting it back to where it needs to be. But it's not hurting. It's not giving me any problems."

Bowers was considered a top-five NFL draft pick after last season, when he led the NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision with 15.5 sacks and won the Bronko Nagurski and Ted Hendricks awards as the nation's top defensive player and defensive end. But knee surgery in January bred whispers about Bowers' physical condition, something he tried to address Friday.

video on link - http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f0c982/article/bowers-shows-off-surgically-repaired-knee-at-clemson-pro-day?module=HP_headlines

dogfish
04-02-2011, 06:51 PM
Three teams at the workout told PFW’s Nolan Nawrocki that Bowers struggled. They had his forty times in the mid 4.9′s and don’t think his knee is healthy.

“He’s not ready. He was hobbling around out there. The shuttles were bad. There’s no way to sugarcoat it. He cost himself millions of dollars,” one team said.

Bowers reportedly struggled to bear his weight in agility drills. One team in the second half of the first round said he wasn’t sure whether they’d take Bowers if available because of his health.

“He had a real difficult time bending. I question whether he will be ready,” Nawrocki’s source said.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...self-millions/

of course he and his agent are going to claim that the pro day was a success, but the facts of the matter are otherwise. . . he was timed as slow as 5.0 flat in the forty-- i don't think anyone is seriously going to buy that his knee is right. . . all the spin in the world won't get that kid back in the top five. . .

TXBRONC
04-02-2011, 10:01 PM
SA? Is that our resident baseball coach...? Cuz that guy in in love with PP and thinks he'll be a HOF'r his 1st year! Lol
(Yes, I exaggerate)
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Ah SmilingAssassin has for weeks being lobbying for us to take Dareus and he also made it clear he's not completely sold on Peterson.

Nomad
04-02-2011, 10:47 PM
Oh, Smilin! He usually has good reviews, but if there is a game to be disappointed in Peterson as a CB, it would be the UNC game!!

SmilinAssasSin27
04-02-2011, 10:57 PM
PP and Julio have had their battles. Each has gotten the better of the other. Clearly a better bump and run guy. I've seen him have plenty of issues w/ dudes who get off the line. When he bumps Julio, he usually wins. When he's off, Julio has done well.

SmilinAssasSin27
04-02-2011, 11:13 PM
Here is my final take on PP:

Dude is an AMAZING athelete and he will be a great pro football player...notice I didn't say CB. Please don't confuse this guy for Champ Bailey. He can't hold Champ's jock as far as coverage skills are concerned. And if I'm taking a CB at #2, he better be able to cover, NOT simply rely on his bump and "out-athletic" the competition. Because he won't in the NFL. I believe LSU won more games directly because of his return skills rather than his coverage skills. Not to say he didn't do well on defense for LSU, but he was a bigger impact in the return game.

All in all, if we piked 6th or 7th and the 2 stud DTs were gone, I'd love to see Denver take him and try him out at CB. If that doesn't work, he'll be a legend at Safety.

atwater27
04-02-2011, 11:23 PM
Von Miller... great player, but not #2 overall great. If we can trade down , he could be an option.

Bowers.... great player, huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge injury risk. Some folks are sayin he may need microfracture at some point. We already got enough injury risks, don't need to put a bullet in our head with a wasted draft pick.

bcbronc
04-02-2011, 11:34 PM
just for conversation....

would you trade UP for Dareaus?

If CAR calls up Elway and says they're taking Dareaus unless we give them #2 and a 2nd, should he?

SmilinAssasSin27
04-02-2011, 11:43 PM
Hell No. I LOVE Dareus, but Fairley is 1B and the difference is not worth a 2nd round pick given our needs.

dogfish
04-03-2011, 12:43 AM
Hell No. I LOVE Dareus, but Fairley is 1B and the difference is not worth a 2nd round pick given our needs.

:welcome:

broncobryce
04-03-2011, 02:33 AM
just for conversation....

would you trade UP for Dareaus?

If CAR calls up Elway and says they're taking Dareaus unless we give them #2 and a 2nd, should he?

Only if he wants to be dumber than matt millen
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TXBRONC
04-03-2011, 08:21 AM
Hell No. I LOVE Dareus, but Fairley is 1B and the difference is not worth a 2nd round pick given our needs.

:nod: :2thumbs:

If Dareus is gone which I think is a very real possibility think we could probably trade down one maybe two places and still get Fairley.

Sinthor
04-03-2011, 11:20 AM
I still keep seeing a lot of player rating lists (despite the mock drafts out there) that don't have any QB rated higher than the #5 overall pick. I think it's still a real possibility that NO ONE picks a QB until #5 or after. Of course, someone WILL probably get desperate and pick one sooner as they do almost every year, but it wouldn't shock me if they didn't.

TXBRONC
04-04-2011, 08:10 AM
PP and Julio have had their battles. Each has gotten the better of the other. Clearly a better bump and run guy. I've seen him have plenty of issues w/ dudes who get off the line. When he bumps Julio, he usually wins. When he's off, Julio has done well.

In that case then Peterson may not be a good for the Broncos. I thought I read not long ago that part of the defensive philosophy the Broncos will employ will be have cornerback off the line of scrimmage. It was liked to the type of coverage the Broncos used when Bailey had those 18 interceptions over a two year period.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-04-2011, 08:17 AM
Here is my final take on PP:

Dude is an AMAZING athelete and he will be a great pro football player...notice I didn't say CB. Please don't confuse this guy for Champ Bailey. He can't hold Champ's jock as far as coverage skills are concerned. And if I'm taking a CB at #2, he better be able to cover, NOT simply rely on his bump and "out-athletic" the competition. Because he won't in the NFL. I believe LSU won more games directly because of his return skills rather than his coverage skills. Not to say he didn't do well on defense for LSU, but he was a bigger impact in the return game.

All in all, if we piked 6th or 7th and the 2 stud DTs were gone, I'd love to see Denver take him and try him out at CB. If that doesn't work, he'll be a legend at Safety.

QFT! This is exactly the point I've tried to make, you just put it much better than I, SA! On top of that, without a solid DL, he'll just look average no matter how good he is.

TXBRONC
04-04-2011, 09:23 AM
QFT! This is exactly the point I've tried to make, you just put it much better than I, SA! On top of that, without a solid DL, he'll just look average no matter how good he is.

I think both of you have articulated the point very well. :salute:

rcsodak
04-04-2011, 02:18 PM
wow. . . kirwan should be ashamed to put such garbage out there with his name on it-- no chance bowers goes that high, everyone knows his knee's not right. . . hell, the colts just scheduled a meeting with him, and they don't trade up-- that says that bill polian, one of the best draft minds around, thinks bowers could fall all the way to the end of the round. . .

Kirwin/Ryan repeatedly tell listeners on sirius NOT to take anything they do re mocks, seriously. They're just 2 guys having fun. And actually, their picks change weeekly, depending on prodays, what they read/hear, but mainly, how they guess.
He has MD more often than not.
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rcsodak
04-04-2011, 02:24 PM
off topic a bit here, but I've always wondered whether teams will bring guys in who they think could end up on a division rival just to get some up close and personal scouting in.

If Indy thinks Bowers could end up in Ten, Jax, or Houston...all somewhat realistic possibilities...they might want to bring him in and see what he can do and what he can't. Probably a bit of a stretch, but who knows. They can't have them 'workout' in their facility workouts (only interviews).
Not really sure what they'd find that they couldn't see on film.
But I do think they try to gleam as much info as possible, for roster moves/fa's....absolutely.
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rcsodak
04-04-2011, 02:31 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...self-millions/

of course he and his agent are going to claim that the pro day was a success, but the facts of the matter are otherwise. . . he was timed as slow as 5.0 flat in the forty-- i don't think anyone is seriously going to buy that his knee is right. . . all the spin in the world won't get that kid back in the top five. . .
Lmao. The teams badmouthing him are PROBABLY the teams intent on drafting him!
And how is he supposed to look, 2mos after surgery? If he had no pain, and/or swelling, that 3/4 the battle! If getting back in shape is all he lacks, hell yes he should be a high pick!
Its not like football camps will likely be starting up anytime soon. :rolleyes:
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rcsodak
04-04-2011, 02:35 PM
Ah SmilingAssassin has for weeks being lobbying for us to take Dareus and he also made it clear he's not completely sold on Peterson.

Ok....didn't know who SA was. And I'd venture to say 75% are in that same boat. DT or bust
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rcsodak
04-04-2011, 02:41 PM
:nod: :2thumbs:

If Dareus is gone which I think is a very real possibility think we could probably trade down one maybe two places and still get Fairley.

Problem is, you have to have another team that is willing to trade with you, tx. Not exactly a plethora of them involving the 2spot, iirc. And not exactly the kind of qb class that's usually the reason for the trade.
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Nomad
04-04-2011, 02:45 PM
Problem is, you have to have another team that is willing to trade with you, tx. Not exactly a plethora of them involving the 2spot, iirc. And not exactly the kind of qb class that's usually the reason for the trade.
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A team must/would be really desperate to trade up to #2 to grab a QB in this class!!

arapaho2
04-04-2011, 03:19 PM
:nod: :2thumbs:

If Dareus is gone which I think is a very real possibility think we could probably trade down one maybe two places and still get Fairley.


i think tradeing down is risky and hard

why would buffalo trade up?....if dareus is gone they are probably confindent we wont take gabbert or cam

a team below us #4 tru #8 in my opinion all needing qbs might trade up if serious about beating the bills to either one....but once gabbert is gone we run the risk of the other teams now ahead of us saying...fairely is just to good to pass up

rcsodak
04-04-2011, 06:30 PM
A team must/would be really desperate to trade up to #2 to grab a QB in this class!!I assume you're agreeing with me?
;)
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rcsodak
04-04-2011, 06:34 PM
I think the ONLY way a team trades for #2 is if Car takes Newton. Anybody else, and denver stays put unless they can smooze BBelicek into trading both of his #1's for it. ;)
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gobroncsnv
04-07-2011, 07:39 PM
Agree in some ways on the "passing downs thing, but one way to beat that by an offense is doing the hurry-up thing. We need quality any-down types... If a player develops into an absolute star as a passing down specialist, the hurry-up can render him ineffective. With a pick as high as we have, better get someone who can stay on the field, not just shine in spot-duty roles.