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View Full Version : McShay's newest mock has Denver taking Von Miller



SR
03-21-2011, 08:01 AM
I'm not so sure I like this. He has Carolina taking Dareus and Denver taking Von Miller.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/insider/news/story?page=McShayMock4.0&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft2011%2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fpage%3dMcS hayMock4.0

rcsodak
03-21-2011, 08:37 AM
When was the last time an OLB was taken #2 by a 43D?
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SOCALORADO.
03-21-2011, 08:45 AM
When was the last time an OLB was taken #2 by a 43D?
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The last time was when Todd McShay was in any capacity involved in the operations of an NFL team.
Yep. Its Monday.

SR
03-21-2011, 08:47 AM
McShay is about as bright as a black crayon, but it's worth discussing.

BroncoJoe
03-21-2011, 09:06 AM
Whether or not you like him or his opinion, Alfred Williams is extremely high on Von Miller.

rcsodak
03-21-2011, 09:08 AM
McShay is about as bright as a black crayon, but it's worth discussing.
eh......

Dareus, plz. Thx.

:coffee:

Hearing more grumbling about PP. Some are saying for a supposed top 10 pick, he sure does give up alot of 3,4,5 catch games. Some are comparing him to Terrance Newman.
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LTC Pain
03-21-2011, 09:10 AM
Optimally the Broncos take Dareus. If Dareus is taken by the Panthers (doubt it will happen), the Broncos 1) take Peterson (despite his single digit Wonderlic score) or 2) trade down to get an extra second round pick and hope to get Fairley. I just don't see where Miller fits into the solution for the Broncos front seven problem. With multiple teams needing a QB it may be easier for the Broncos to trade down a few slots. The focus is getting Dareus.

SR
03-21-2011, 09:10 AM
Terrence Newman is in the upper end of CBs IMO. He's maybe top 10, top 12 in the league, but he (PP) isn't worth a top 10 pick IMO.

SR
03-21-2011, 09:11 AM
Optimally the Broncos take Dareus. If Dareus is taken by the Panthers (doubt it will happen), the Broncos 1) take Peterson (despite his single digit Wonderlic score) or 2) trade down to get an extra second round pick and hope to get Fairley. I just don't see where Miller fits into the solution for the Broncos front seven problem. With multiple teams needing a QB it may be easier for the Broncos to trade down a few slots. The focus is getting Dareus.

That could be. I agree though, Denver needs to address their front seven issues ASAP.

rcsodak
03-21-2011, 09:14 AM
Terrence Newman is in the upper end of CBs IMO. He's maybe top 10, top 12 in the league, but he (PP) isn't worth a top 10 pick IMO.

Newman? Top 10? The cowboys cb, newman?
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SR
03-21-2011, 09:23 AM
Yeah. He's dropped off the past couple of years but he's still top 15 in the league. MY opinion.

rcsodak
03-21-2011, 09:31 AM
Yeah. He's dropped off the past couple of years but he's still top 15 in the league. MY opinion.
If we stay on him, will he drop down to top 20?
:confused:
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SR
03-21-2011, 09:34 AM
What?

rcsodak
03-21-2011, 09:36 AM
What?
:lol:
well, so far, you've dropped him from 10, to 12, to 15.....so I was just wonderin'.....how loooooowwww will he go?

; )
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SR
03-21-2011, 09:38 AM
A couple of years ago I would've put him in the top 10. He's still top 15. Could even be top 12. Name all the CBs in the league you think are better than Newman. That'll determine his status among other CBs in the league.

rcsodak
03-21-2011, 09:39 AM
A couple of years ago I would've put him in the top 10. He's still top 15. Could even be top 12. Name all the CBs in the league you think are better than Newman. That'll determine his status among other CBs in the league.
You. More fun. ; )
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SR
03-21-2011, 10:03 AM
Champ
Revis
Nnamdi
Flowers
Cromartie
Clements
Samuel
Barber
Woodson
Hall (maybe)

There are a few more, but those are all definitively better than Newman.

Nomad
03-21-2011, 10:53 AM
Von Miller vs LSU 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4xufNIWdcs

SR
03-21-2011, 11:00 AM
All that video did was make me not want to draft him even more.

Nomad
03-21-2011, 11:03 AM
All that video did was make me not want to draft him even more.

That was really the only game I watched him in and I wasn't all that impressed either......especially for the #2 overall pick!!

SR
03-21-2011, 11:05 AM
I've seen him in a handful of games, but haven't ever been very impressed with him. I dunno. What do I know.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-21-2011, 12:49 PM
I have this sick feeling the Panthers are really going to take Dareus.

SR
03-21-2011, 12:51 PM
It kinda put a pit in my stomach too.

rcsodak
03-21-2011, 01:13 PM
Ex scout,exec for cleveland and now at sporting news, thinks Liguit(sp) in 3 yrs will be just as good as dareus/fairley. Said he's just raw. Mentioned an ILB from washington huskies that could be a mclean-type player. He may not break any records but will be a great addition for 10-12yrs.
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Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-21-2011, 01:18 PM
Ex scout,exec for cleveland and now at sporting news, thinks Liguit(sp) in 3 yrs will be just as good as dareus/fairley. Said he's just raw. Mentioned an ILB from washington huskies that could be a mclean-type player. He may not break any records but will be a great addition for 10-12yrs.
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The kid from Washington is very good. I believe his name is Foster. He could probably play SLB too. He's extremely athletic and physical. He gets to the sideline fast.

SOCALORADO.
03-21-2011, 01:26 PM
The kid from Washington is very good. I believe his name is Foster. He could probably play SLB too. He's extremely athletic and physical. He gets to the sideline fast.

Mason Foster. Very talented player on a VERY bad team. Tries to do too much and get outworked cause hes soo tired from the last play.
Easily a 3rd round pick. More than likely a team looking to bolster a 4-3 defense will take him early. CAR or NYG.

As for Liguet, hes is raw, but DEN needs 2 DTs anyways so get him or Paea in the 2nd with DE Clayborn or Martez Wilson. Or Foster in the 3rd.

Something like,
1st DT Dareus
2nd DE Clayborn
2ndB DT Paea
3rd OLB Foster

SOCALORADO.
03-21-2011, 01:28 PM
[QUOTE=SOCALORADO.;1231086]Mason Foster. Very talented player on a VERY bad team. Tries to do too much and get outworked cause hes soo tired from the last play.
Easily a 3rd round pick. More than likely a team looking to bolster a 4-3 defense will take him early. CAR or NYG. A much better player than CMatthews. Woulda said it a long time ago, but i didnt want to get flamed.

As for Liguet, hes is raw, but DEN needs 2 DTs anyways so get him or Paea in the 2nd with DE Clayborn or Martez Wilson. Or Foster in the 3rd.

Something like,
1st DT Dareus
2nd DE Clayborn
2ndB DT Paea
3rd OLB Foster

BroncoStud
03-21-2011, 02:38 PM
Miller's a stud but Denver has to sign at least 2 DT's in the draft, right??

Shananahan
03-21-2011, 05:47 PM
Something like,
1st DT Dareus
2nd DE Clayborn
2ndB DT Paea
3rd OLB Foster
This would be awesome, except I'd rather try and snag somebody for the secondary somewhere than Clayborn. Couldn't complain at all with that draft, though. I will cry if they draft Miller at #2.

I Eat Staples
03-21-2011, 07:13 PM
That would be ridiculous. If we traded down, then okay. But no way in hell is Miller worth the #2 pick.

NameUsedBefore
03-21-2011, 07:17 PM
I would rather take a sleeper like Mark Herzlich later on then using the second overall pick on a linebacker. If Von Miller was like Patrick Willis coming out of college, then yeah, but he aint.

Bosco
03-21-2011, 08:01 PM
McShay is about as bright as a black crayon, but it's worth discussing.

Yeah, this is a pretty perplexing pick by McShay.

elsid13
03-21-2011, 08:26 PM
Yeah, this is a pretty perplexing pick by McShay.

Not really McShay has no clue and jumps on the player that is getting the lastest buzz.

Buff
03-21-2011, 08:26 PM
If things don't go our way and the Panthers take Dareus at #1 AND our scouts have genuine concerns about Bowers (medical) and Fairley (for whatever reason)... Then I would rather have Miller over Peterson. Pass Rush > Pass Coverage

elsid13
03-21-2011, 08:35 PM
If things don't go our way and the Panthers take Dareus at #1 AND our scouts have genuine concerns about Bowers (medical) and Fairley (for whatever reason)... Then I would rather have Miller over Peterson. Pass Rush > Pass Coverage

We are playing a 4/3 you don't see a lot of sacks from LB in that scheme.

Buff
03-21-2011, 09:03 PM
We are playing a 4/3 you don't see a lot of sacks from LB in that scheme.

Almost everybody plays a hybrid scheme on 3rd down nowadays, so we'd put him in a position to rush the passer. If he could be a good Sam LB on 1st and 2nd down and then get after the QB on 3rd down then he's definitely worthy of the #2 pick. I just don't know how effective he is at doing anything other than rushing the passer.

I Eat Staples
03-21-2011, 09:33 PM
If things don't go our way and the Panthers take Dareus at #1 AND our scouts have genuine concerns about Bowers (medical) and Fairley (for whatever reason)... Then I would rather have Miller over Peterson. Pass Rush > Pass Coverage

If it came to that then you still don't take Miller, you trade down. You don't reach on a player just because he's the only player that you want if you can get him later on.

Miller is not worth the #2 pick. Taking him there would be an unbelievable waste of value.

Buff
03-21-2011, 09:42 PM
If it came to that then you still don't take Miller, you trade down. You don't reach on a player just because he's the only player that you want if you can get him later on.

Miller is not worth the #2 pick. Taking him there would be an unbelievable waste of value.

Meh, the guy is pretty much a consensus Top 10 pick. I don't love him at #2, but I think we could do worse. We're just as likely to lose value trying to trade out of a slot that isn't all that coveted.

rcsodak
03-21-2011, 10:17 PM
Meh, the guy is pretty much a consensus Top 10 pick. I don't love him at #2, but I think we could do worse. We're just as likely to lose value trying to trade out of a slot that isn't all that coveted.

All this talk of trades...... Currently, the league is telling teams that they can go ahead with trading picks from next year.....


....but just be prepared as nothing is a sure deal.

With NE having 6 in the top 100, I see them being a MAJOR player...and again restocking their shelves for next year's draft as well. Rumors are already out there that BB is trying to trade out of the #28 spot.

Bosco
03-22-2011, 02:00 AM
but I think we could do worse. Probably not. We just gave Dumervil an ass load of money and using a top 5 pick on another player to use in the same exact role would be epic levels of stupid.

sneakers
03-22-2011, 03:17 AM
He is still better then Mel Kiper, because he doesnt think he is better than everyone.

SR
03-22-2011, 08:04 AM
As big as Kiper's ego is, he's still the only guy I listen to when it comes to the draft. He started all of this shit and is the most reputable as far as I'm concerned.

zbeg
03-22-2011, 08:21 AM
As big as Kiper's ego is, he's still the only guy I listen to when it comes to the draft. He started all of this shit and is the most reputable as far as I'm concerned.


No doubt. When Kiper got started, he studied all the prospects, from the top prospects down to the seventh rounders. Some obscure DB from Catatonic State taken in the 6th round? Before computers could just pull up the info on a teleprompter, you had Kiper who had studied and memorized the information on hundreds of prospects.

The guy has provided a very valuable service for us on draft day, and one I think people take for granted.

People like to point at his predictions and when he was wrong. Newsflash: When your job is to prognosticate every single draft selection, a process that nobody - not Lombardi or Walsh or Parcells or anyone can get down perfectly, there are going to be mistakes.

What I find to be the height of arrogance, however, is fans who just bash on Kiper and think he's some sort of moron because he only spends thousands of hours studying tape every year and has formed highly informed opinions - but hey, he was wrong about some draft picks over the last few decades, and heck - I watched some players a few times on Saturdays, so really, Kiper's an idiot.

It's certainly valid to discuss and even question the opinions that he or McShay or Mayock have - lively discussion is the lifeblood of message boards. And it's also valid to find the way the information is presented annoying (particularly in Kiper's case). But it's really bloody arrogant to think that the reason why there's a difference of opinion is because you think you're smarter and/or more knowedgable about the subject than they are.

(And if you think it's that easy, just document your opinion on every draft pick for a decade. Then let's all look at it and scrutinize and we can see just how easy the player evaluation process is.)

SOCALORADO.
03-22-2011, 08:41 AM
No doubt. When Kiper got started, he studied all the prospects, from the top prospects down to the seventh rounders. Some obscure DB from Catatonic State taken in the 6th round? Before computers could just pull up the info on a teleprompter, you had Kiper who had studied and memorized the information on hundreds of prospects.

The guy has provided a very valuable service for us on draft day, and one I think people take for granted.

People like to point at his predictions and when he was wrong. Newsflash: When your job is to prognosticate every single draft selection, a process that nobody - not Lombardi or Walsh or Parcells or anyone can get down perfectly, there are going to be mistakes.

What I find to be the height of arrogance, however, is fans who just bash on Kiper and think he's some sort of moron because he only spends thousands of hours studying tape every year and has formed highly informed opinions - but hey, he was wrong about some draft picks over the last few decades, and heck - I watched some players a few times on Saturdays, so really, Kiper's an idiot.

It's certainly valid to discuss and even question the opinions that he or McShay or Mayock have - lively discussion is the lifeblood of message boards. And it's also valid to find the way the information is presented annoying (particularly in Kiper's case). But it's really bloody arrogant to think that the reason why there's a difference of opinion is because you think you're smarter and/or more knowedgable about the subject than they are.

(And if you think it's that easy, just document your opinion on every draft pick for a decade. Then let's all look at it and scrutinize and we can see just how easy the player evaluation process is.)

http://secfb.neswblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Franken-Kiper.jpg

rcsodak
03-22-2011, 08:46 AM
Probably not. We just gave Dumervil an ass load of money and using a top 5 pick on another player to use in the same exact role would be epic levels of stupid.

Soooo....you're saying there's a possibility! ; )
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Bosco
03-22-2011, 02:18 PM
As big as Kiper's ego is, he's still the only guy I listen to when it comes to the draft. He started all of this shit and is the most reputable as far as I'm concerned.

Kiper is a tool who has never really put in the film study to act like the authority he thinks he is. That's not to say that he would understand it even if he did, with no real playing or coaching experience to speak of.

If you want a draft guru, Mike Mayock is the best you are going to do. He actually does his own film study and is smart enough to know what he is seeing. He's even respected in the NFL circles as several NFL execs have publicly said that Mayock could easily get a front office job if he wanted one.

SR
03-22-2011, 02:22 PM
Different strokes. I believe the opposite and think Mayock is a moron.

Bosco
03-22-2011, 02:24 PM
Different strokes. I believe the opposite and think Mayock is a moron.

What makes you think Mayock is a moron? He's exponentially more qualified than Kiper and has topped Kiper in accuracy every year he's been on the scene.

SR
03-22-2011, 02:25 PM
What makes you think Mayock is a moron? He's exponentially more qualified than Kiper and has topped Kiper in accuracy every year he's been on the scene.

It's my personal opinion and, last time I checked, I was entitled to that. Mayock crosses me as a wannabe. I can't stand him.

BigSarge87
03-22-2011, 02:28 PM
It would be interesting to see some research on who has been the most accurate 'draft guru' over the last 5-10 years. Anyone here care enough to go do it? I don't.

SR
03-22-2011, 02:29 PM
I don't either. Mock drafts don't interest me much to begin with.

Bosco
03-22-2011, 02:45 PM
It's my personal opinion and, last time I checked, I was entitled to that. Mayock crosses me as a wannabe. I can't stand him.

And what's your basis for your opinion?


It would be interesting to see some research on who has been the most accurate 'draft guru' over the last 5-10 years. Anyone here care enough to go do it? I don't.

NFL Draft Scout did something like that back in 07 or 08. Unfortunately I believe it was lost when they merged with CBS Sports.

SR
03-22-2011, 03:00 PM
And what's your basis for your opinion?



I base my opinion off of Mayock sucking.

BigSarge87
03-22-2011, 03:15 PM
If I was a GM, I wouldn't listen to any of them, I would watch who the Pats, Steelers, and Pack were scouting and pick those guys. They don't seem to miss often.

SR
03-22-2011, 03:22 PM
New England's drafting is amazing.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-22-2011, 06:07 PM
OK fellas, I say this every year...

ALL of these "experts" want people to continue to buy their insider subscriptions, click on their names, etc. To do that, there has to be a demand. As a result, these guys constantly change their personal mock drafts to scenarios they don't even come close to believing. They are selling us their ideas, but don't put out their true mocks until mid April. If they gave us their TRUE mocks now, why would anyone bother reading their sites?

BigSarge87
03-22-2011, 06:17 PM
OK fellas, I say this every year...

ALL of these "experts" want people to continue to buy their insider subscriptions, click on their names, etc. To do that, there has to be a demand. As a result, these guys constantly change their personal mock drafts to scenarios they don't even come close to believing. They are selling us their ideas, but don't put out their true mocks until mid April. If they gave us their TRUE mocks now, why would anyone bother reading their sites?

That's why I put my stock in Bleacherreport. People are going to go to their site anyways becuase they have links to hot chick slideshows and things like "get a playboy party at your highschool!", therefore there's no motivation for them to bullshit us so they must be the most accurate.

zbeg
03-22-2011, 06:22 PM
I base my opinion off of Mayock sucking.

What a well-reasoned, insightful argument.

rcsodak
03-22-2011, 06:26 PM
What a well-reasoned, insightful argument.
His hormones are just all ****** up.
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SR
03-23-2011, 08:06 AM
What a well-reasoned, insightful argument.

In other words, why do I have to explain my opinion? I don't need to. I think what I think, and that's that. I don't like Mike Mayock. I think he's a poser. That's my opinion and I don't need to justify it to you or anyone else.

SR
03-23-2011, 08:10 AM
His hormones are just all ****** up.
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Seriously dude, quit ******* following me around the boards and acting like you know me. It's driving me up the goddamn wall. I've already deleted you from my FB account and had you on ignore here but for some odd reason people like to quote every stupid ass remark you make, so keeping you on ignore is pointless. Quit acting like a ******* child.

rcsodak
03-23-2011, 08:11 AM
In other words, why do I have to explain my opinion? I don't need to. I think what I think, and that's that. I don't like Mike Mayock. I think he's a poser. That's my opinion and I don't need to justify it to you or anyone else.
You forgot: SO THERE!
:lol:
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Dzone
03-23-2011, 08:18 AM
LMAO...I thought this was a thread about V Miller..If we pick V Miller, it would be freakin great...if we get Derius, friggin great...any way we go, we win

SR
03-23-2011, 08:19 AM
LMAO...I thought this was a thread about V Miller..If we pick V Miller, it would be freakin great...if we get Derius, friggin great...any way we go, we win

Honestly, I just hope we pick the player that gives us the best chance of improving as a team. In my completely uneducated opinion, I think a solid DT would give our defense a bigger bolster than an OLB, but like I said, uneducated opinion.

Dzone
03-23-2011, 08:25 AM
I wish I could figure out how to put people on ignore. that would be cool. I can think of a few I would put on ignore...am sure I am on a few ignored lists...hahaha...

SR
03-23-2011, 08:28 AM
If you click on the person's handle and "View public profile", there will be a thing on their page thing that says "User Lists" with a little drop down menu. For the member you'd like to ignore, go to their page, click that drop down menu, and click "add to ignore list".

rcsodak
03-23-2011, 08:46 AM
If you click on the person's handle and "View public profile", there will be a thing on their page thing that says "User Lists" with a little drop down menu. For the member you'd like to ignore, go to their page, click that drop down menu, and click "add to ignore list".

Also on your own cp page...left side.
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zbeg
03-23-2011, 05:01 PM
In other words, why do I have to explain my opinion? I don't need to. I think what I think, and that's that. I don't like Mike Mayock. I think he's a poser. That's my opinion and I don't need to justify it to you or anyone else.

I don't think anyone's required to do anything (beyond abiding by the TOS), but it's also not contributing to the discussion, which is sort of the whole point of this board.

"I think he sucks because I do."

Well, that's not actually contributing anything to the discussion. Do you think that's worth your time? The time of the people who have the misfortune of reading it?

Why not explain why you think he sucks, or what he doesn't do well? A message board full of one-line, empty comments like that makes for a pretty uninteresting board.

But "he sucks because he's a poser" is essentially saying nothing at all. Nobody's learning anything at that point. It's simply contributing empty words to an ever-increasing post count.

Presumably he's said or done something that makes you think he's a "poser." What is it? I'm interested in learning more about your point of view. That's all.

SR
03-23-2011, 06:04 PM
I think he's a knock off and a poser. I don't like the things he says on NFLN and I don't like the way he approaches things. There are just things about him that make me not like him. To me, he's like a cheap version of Mel Kiper Jr. And don't take that as me being a Kiper nuthugger, because I'm not, I just think Kiper is the best at what he does because of the work he puts in to it and because he's been doing it for so damn long.

rcsodak
03-23-2011, 07:45 PM
I think he's a knock off and a poser. I don't like the things he says on NFLN and I don't like the way he approaches things. There are just things about him that make me not like him. To me, he's like a cheap version of Mel Kiper Jr. And don't take that as me being a Kiper nuthugger, because I'm not, I just think Kiper is the best at what he does because of the work he puts in to it and because he's been doing it for so damn long.
Kiper n ingRed, sitting in a tree...

:laugh:
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Bosco
03-23-2011, 08:38 PM
Kiper n ingRed, sitting in a tree...

:laugh:
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I lol'd.

SR
03-23-2011, 08:44 PM
I lol'd.

I didn't see that till you quoted it. The ignore feature has a goddamn loophole and it peeves me.

rcsodak
03-24-2011, 07:50 AM
I didn't see that till you quoted it. The ignore feature has a goddamn loophole and it peeves me.
:laugh:
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