PDA

View Full Version : Brees said NFL's final offer was "all show"



Bullgator
03-14-2011, 07:11 PM
Union say they were "never close" to a deal

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6217059

rcsodak
03-14-2011, 07:19 PM
Brees is scarfaced and has a gina.

*Let everybody know that the aforementioned post is PURELY my uninformed opinion, and by NO MEANS is meant to portray I know more than the next guy.*
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

nevcraw
03-14-2011, 07:36 PM
Brees is scarfaced and has a gina.

*Let everybody know that the aforementioned post is PURELY my uninformed opinion, and by NO MEANS is meant to portray I know more than the next guy.*
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

it's a birthmark silly!! and i didn't know about his gina -- that shit feels just like a heart attack..

Dean
03-14-2011, 08:03 PM
it's a birthmark silly!! and i didn't know about his gina -- that shit feels just like a heart attack..

If the offer was all a front, wouldn't it have been wise to accept it and recieve almost everything the NFL Players' Union asked for?

Day1BroncoFan
03-14-2011, 08:14 PM
We all know Brees has never lied. :D

HORSEPOWER 56
03-14-2011, 09:01 PM
In all of this, I've seen the owners propose changes, negotiate and change the proposals, and extend the deadline. Open their books to the players (more than they do to even each other) - the past 5 years worth - the players say they want 10 and that 5 isn't enough for some reason (even though it's the exact length of the current CBA signed in 2006). The owners were the ones who brought in the federal mediator when the players felt uncomfortable and distrusted the owners.

This "show us the books" bullshit is just that, bullshit. The Green Bay Packers are owned by the city of Green Bay and not by a private owner. Their "books" are a matter of public record and show that the Packers' profit margin has fallen from ~$20 mil per year when the new CBA was signed to ~$9 mil per year. Sooner or later, that number will fall into the red. Any idiot can see that trend. You really don't need to see all 32 teams' private financial records to see where this is going.

All I've seen from the players is "no" to everything the owners have proposed. No counter proposals, no willingness to negotiate, just "no, we're de-certifying and the owners are bad, bad men and all their offers were a sham."

Call me crazy, but it looks to me like the players don't want to find a resolution to this and are hoping against hope that the courts will somehow force the owners to keep things as they are.

The players are rapidly changing my opinion of them and my support for anything they say or do. The more facts that come to light really aren't flattering to their case.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-14-2011, 09:18 PM
Great post Horsepower - so far, to me it is the owners are giving, and the players are just standing there shaking their heads NO :mad:


The owners, Ellis said, were willing to show leaguewide, and club-by-club profitability data from the past five years that could be verified by a mutually agreed upon third-party auditor.

"This is the type of information we don't share with each other," said Ellis, who attended negotiations along with Broncos owner Pat Bowlen on Friday. "The union didn't even want to look at it. They claimed the information was useless. But the fact is this: Since the agreement in 2006 was struck, players' costs have risen at double-digit percentages and owners' profits around the league essentially were at single-digit increases, if any. You get one line going one way and another line going the other way as you're trying to grow the game and make the game better. That's what the owners were putting on the table in a very genuine way."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17603586

tomjonesrocks
03-14-2011, 09:32 PM
Brees is a guy I at least used to really respect. Kind of don't know what he/his legacy gets out of fronting the largely unpopular side of the players at this point in his career...

Bullgator
03-14-2011, 09:36 PM
Brees is a guy I at least used to really respect. Kind of don't know what he/his legacy gets out of fronting the largely unpopular side of the players at this point in his career...

well you might as well include Brady and Manning.... and well every other player youve ever had respect for lol

KCL
03-14-2011, 10:15 PM
Something else I don't understand because I don't know how all this works...but why in the hell is there a union or was a union in the NFL?

Why is it not just the players with their agents working with the GM of teams to work out deals/contracts?

I know some players represent themselves but I don't understand the whole
union involvement.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-14-2011, 10:29 PM
Something else I don't understand because I don't know how all this works...but why in the hell is there a union or was a union in the NFL?

Why is it not just the players with their agents working with the GM of teams to work out deals/contracts?

I know some players represent themselves but I don't understand the whole
union involvement.

Based on where I found this, not ever sure if things on this site are true or not


The union formed in 1956 when football players on the Green Bay Packers and Cleveland Browns formed a union to demand that the clubs provide players with a minimum league-wide salary and per diem pay, uniforms and equipment paid for and maintained at the clubs' expense and continued payment of their salaries while they were injured and unable to play. Don Shula of the Baltimore Colts, John Gordy of the Detroit Lions, Frank Gifford and Sam Huff of the New York Giants, and Norm Van Brocklin of the Los Angeles Rams led the organizing drive.

Creighton Miller, a former Notre Dame football player turned lawyer, represented the union. Unable to win their attention by organizing, the association threatened to bring an antitrust lawsuit against the league. That threat became much more credible when the United States Supreme Court ruled in Radovich v. National Football League, 352 U.S. 445 (1957), that the NFL did not enjoy the same antitrust immunity that Major League Baseball did. Rather than face another lawsuit, the owners granted most of the players' demands (including minimal insurance and pension plans and a basic salary for stars and rank-and-file players alike), but did not enter into a collective bargaining agreement with the association or formally recognize it as their exclusive bargaining representative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Players_Association

GEM
03-14-2011, 10:32 PM
Especially since the union says they are in charge of taking care of retired players. They aren't doing a good job. The owners agreed to a huge number being put away fot those players who played a much more violent game with less pad. Those players didn't play for millions and are mostly broke and in poor health.

KCL
03-14-2011, 10:34 PM
I am reading some Kansas City news and Haley,Berry and Charles were all at a banquet receiving honors/awards.


In the meantime, communication between players and coaches is not allowed. Todd Haley was also honored at the banquet as AFC coach of the year but wasn’t allowed to do much more than say hello to Charles and Berry.

“I’ll congratulate both of them on well-deserved awards,” Haley said.



That must have been strange/awkward after coaching them last season.

sneakers
03-15-2011, 02:59 AM
Brees spent a few years around Rivers....so I am thinking a little doucheness rubbed off on him.

The Glue Factory
03-15-2011, 09:36 AM
Especially since the union says they are in charge of taking care of retired players. They aren't doing a good job. The owners agreed to a huge number being put away fot those players who played a much more violent game with less pad. Those players didn't play for millions and are mostly broke and in poor health.


I've got to wonder why these players that make league minimum mid 6 figure salaries per year aren't putting money away for themselves? Or is the union telling the players, don't worry, in the next contract we'll make the owners pay for your medical issues.

Edmonton Bronco Fan
03-15-2011, 10:23 AM
In all of this, I've seen the owners propose changes, negotiate and change the proposals, and extend the deadline. Open their books to the players (more than they do to even each other) - the past 5 years worth - the players say they want 10 and that 5 isn't enough for some reason (even though it's the exact length of the current CBA signed in 2006). The owners were the ones who brought in the federal mediator when the players felt uncomfortable and distrusted the owners.

This "show us the books" bullshit is just that, bullshit. The Green Bay Packers are owned by the city of Green Bay and not by a private owner. Their "books" are a matter of public record and show that the Packers' profit margin has fallen from ~$20 mil per year when the new CBA was signed to ~$9 mil per year. Sooner or later, that number will fall into the red. Any idiot can see that trend. You really don't need to see all 32 teams' private financial records to see where this is going.

All I've seen from the players is "no" to everything the owners have proposed. No counter proposals, no willingness to negotiate, just "no, we're de-certifying and the owners are bad, bad men and all their offers were a sham."

Call me crazy, but it looks to me like the players don't want to find a resolution to this and are hoping against hope that the courts will somehow force the owners to keep things as they are.

The players are rapidly changing my opinion of them and my support for anything they say or do. The more facts that come to light really aren't flattering to their case.

Excellent post, sums up the situation quite well.

NightTerror218
03-15-2011, 11:24 AM
The players just want more money.....I say give us replacement players...we will still be behind our teams but without the money grubbing players, who opposed anything the NFL put out there....initially all the counter offers the players made gave them more money in the end.....they were not going to come out of this for less.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2011, 11:41 AM
If this is REALLY the way Brees feels, I have lost total respect for him:


1. We more than split the economic difference between us, increasing our proposed cap for 2011 significantly and accepting the union's proposed cap number for 2014 ($161 million per club).

2. An entry-level compensation system based on the union's "rookie cap" proposal, rather than the wage scale proposed by the clubs. Under the NFL proposal, players drafted in rounds 2-7 would be paid the same or more than they are paid today. Savings from the first round would be reallocated to veteran players and benefits.

3. A guarantee of up to $1 million of a player's salary for the contract year after his injury, the first time that the clubs have offered a standard multiyear injury guarantee.

4. Immediate implementation of changes to promote player health and safety by: reducing the offseason program by five weeks, reducing OTAs (organized team activities) from 14 to 10 and limiting on-field practice time and contact; limiting full-contact practices in the preseason and regular season; and increasing number of days off for players.

5. Commit that any change to an 18-game season will be made only by agreement and that the 2011 and 2012 seasons will be played under the current 16-game format.

6. Owner funding of $82 million in 2011-12 to support additional benefits to former players, which would increase retirement benefits for more than 2,000 former players by nearly 60 percent.

7. Offer current players the opportunity to remain in the player medical plan for life.

8. Third-party arbitration for appeals in the drug and steroid programs.

9. Improvements in the Mackey plan (designed for players suffering from dementia and other brain-related problems), disability plan and degree-completion bonus program.

10. A per-club cash minimum spend of 90 percent of the salary cap over three seasons.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81eb9907/article/league-releases-details-of-proposal-that-union-didnt-accept?module=HP_headlines

Oh, and BY THE WAY, I have not been able to find ANYTHING which shows any demands by the players, which they BACKED OFF FROM

Nomad
03-15-2011, 12:24 PM
Carol, I believe what North said in this post#24 http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232085&page=2, is what will settle this! I see fans moaning and groaning but doing nothing about it. When we moved here, we opted out of getting Directv and the ST, and I will not buy gear (actually thinking of boxing up my gear and mailing it back to Dove Valley), and if there was a way to write the NFLPA and tell them what I think I would. If the owners cave in then I'm pretty much done with pro sports all together. Been a BRONCO fan for over 20 yrs but I have been a lifelong college fan and it wouldn't take anything to find other things to do on a Sunday afternoon.

I view this in comparison to voting. Do something about it instead of sitting here moaning and groaning. In voting, you can go to the polls and write your congressman but with the NFL situatione you can cancel Sunday Ticket, not purchase merchandise, don't buy tickets/season tickets, and tell the owners/players the situation etc. So I say if one is this disgruntled about the situation....do something about it or put a sock in it!! I'm not directly talking to you Carol but the NFL fanbase as a whole!! The fans hold all the cards because if the NFLPA gets their way prices will rise considerably!!

Ravage!!!
03-15-2011, 12:29 PM
Not buying tickets and merchandise is hurting the owners more than the players. Doing this kind of action would, in a sense, be taking a stand against the owners and forcing them to deal faster.

Nomad
03-15-2011, 12:34 PM
Not buying tickets and merchandise is hurting the owners more than the players. Doing this kind of action would, in a sense, be taking a stand against the owners and forcing them to deal faster.

It's taking a stand against the NFL as a whole!:coffee:

Ravage!!!
03-15-2011, 12:38 PM
It's taking a stand against the NFL as a whole!:coffee:

I get what you are saying, I'm just pointing out that the steps you were using as your examples were basically targeting the owners. If you want to make/take a stand against the players and their stance, I recommend doing something that shows the players you aren't happy with them.

To use your example of voting, taking a stance against "everyone" is like choosing not to vote because you don't like the issues at hand instead of voting one way or the other.

Nomad
03-15-2011, 12:54 PM
I get what you are saying, I'm just pointing out that the steps you were using as your examples were basically targeting the owners. If you want to make/take a stand against the players and their stance, I recommend doing something that shows the players you aren't happy with them.

To use your example of voting, taking a stance against "everyone" is like choosing not to vote because you don't like the issues at hand instead of voting one way or the other.

I'm not on either side!! I believe the owners are just as guilty as the players, but if NFL fans are disgruntled there are ways. Yes, the players are a little more guilty of being selfish IMO, but the NFL as a whole has gotten out of hand.

Nothing a fan can do if you are just disgruntled with the players except just watch the standoff and take it up the ass and wait!! You have to treat this situation as a whole. Take away from the owners and players and send a message to the NFL why you are doing so!! I understand you can't take away from one side and not the other!!

rcsodak
03-15-2011, 01:03 PM
Not buying tickets and merchandise is hurting the owners more than the players. Doing this kind of action would, in a sense, be taking a stand against the owners and forcing them to deal faster.you're right. Because regardless, the cap will still increase every year/never go down. So the players would just take more% from the profits.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

rcsodak
03-15-2011, 01:05 PM
I'm not on either side!! I believe the owners are just as guilty as the players, but if NFL fans are disgruntled there are ways. Yes, the players are a little more guilty of being selfish IMO, but the NFL as a whole has gotten out of hand.

Nothing a fan can do if you are just disgruntled with the players except just watch the standoff and take it up the ass and wait!! You have to treat this situation as a whole. Take away from the owners and players and send a message to the NFL why you are doing so!! I understand you can't take away from one side and not the other!!
Nothing short of a Million Man march. Will matter much, imo.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

rcsodak
03-15-2011, 01:08 PM
Kinda funny....Schein (hate) on Sirius, who has been decidedly pro players, along with RGannon are BOTH lambasting Brees for his incessant tweeting, saying he's losing some respect.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2011, 01:15 PM
Kinda funny....Schein (hate) on Sirius, who has been decidedly pro players, along with RGannon are BOTH lambasting Brees for his incessant tweeting, saying he's losing some respect.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

I know that the big 3 names on the lawsuit were Manning, Brady and Brees; however, I have yet to hear anything that Manning and Brady have said, like Brees is doing.

rcsodak
03-15-2011, 01:22 PM
I know that the big 3 names on the lawsuit were Manning, Brady and Brees; however, I have yet to hear anything that Manning and Brady have said, like Brees is doing.
Exactly.
Maybe he's wanting to be the next top union player rep?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

rcsodak
03-15-2011, 01:27 PM
Minn's BLeiber was one of ten to file suit vs nfl. He said they had to decertify as the writing was on the wall with the nfl's hiring of the lawyer that headed the nhl lockout.
That proverbial can keeps getting kicked, while the court of public opinionis getting abused. Lol
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Bullgator
03-15-2011, 01:30 PM
It's taking a stand against the NFL as a whole!:coffee:

Well, if you need a college team Gator Nation would love to have you. Our teams are fun to watch and we compete for National Championships in many different sports. There is even a large UF fan club Denver(called the mile high gator fan club i think) AND we wont scold you for being a new fan! :D :beer: :welcome:

rcsodak
03-15-2011, 01:46 PM
Rooney II on Sirius:says PA's response to their financial disclosure was both" strange" and" unusual". Not sure why they answered as such. Admits 'maybe they should have started negotiating sooner', though it may have had same result.
Neither side asked for further mediation, friday, tho they were prepared to continue....nor did the mediator.
Says they NEVER felt like the PA was willing to give an inch on ANY item.
Asked why they opted out, he said they didn't want to end up like the other leagues, with some teams in financial trouble. They were seeing trending and wanted to stop it before it happens. Is still hoping for negotiation vs litigation.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Nomad
03-15-2011, 01:51 PM
Well, if you need a college team Gator Nation would love to have you. Our teams are fun to watch and we compete for National Championships in many different sports. There is even a large UF fan club Denver(called the mile high gator fan club i think) AND we wont scold you for being a new fan! :D :beer: :welcome:

Lifelong LSU fan, I have been watching SEC and Pac 10 football since I can remember.....no thanks to the Gator offer! You can visit our college football forum here at BF sometime. We have an SEC thread as well!

The Glue Factory
03-15-2011, 02:02 PM
Rooney II on Sirius:says PA's response to their financial disclosure was both" strange" and" unusual". Not sure why they answered as such. Admits 'maybe they should have started negotiating sooner', though it may have had same result.
Neither side asked for further mediation, friday, tho they were prepared to continue....nor did the mediator.
Says they NEVER felt like the PA was willing to give an inch on ANY item.
Asked why they opted out, he said they didn't want to end up like the other leagues, with some teams in financial trouble. They were seeing trending and wanted to stop it before it happens. Is still hoping for negotiation vs litigation.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Dad always said, "It takes two to tango." If one side is just standing there is it really negotiating err, dancing?

rcsodak
03-15-2011, 02:10 PM
Dad always said, "It takes two to tango." If one side is just standing there is it really negotiating err, dancing?
Reminds me of the Geico commercial. :lol:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Ravage!!!
03-15-2011, 03:43 PM
I know that the big 3 names on the lawsuit were Manning, Brady and Brees; however, I have yet to hear anything that Manning and Brady have said, like Brees is doing.


I look back at the game where the NO Saints came onto the field and showed their signs for supporting the Union after the National Anthem was played. Looks like we can see who the front-runner of that plan was.

The Saints got lambasted for that exhibition, as well. Seems Brees didn't learn much.

rcsodak
03-15-2011, 03:47 PM
If the nfl was always planning on the lockout, how's come RGoodell was willing to do what DSmith wouldn't......

$1 salary!
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Bullgator
03-15-2011, 10:00 PM
Lifelong LSU fan, I have been watching SEC and Pac 10 football since I can remember.....no thanks to the Gator offer! You can visit our college football forum here at BF sometime. We have an SEC thread as well!

sweet, been to many LSU games. with Cox still a question mark I think there is a chance we shoot for peterson instead of a DL especialy if MD is gone.

Bullgator
03-15-2011, 10:04 PM
If the nfl was always planning on the lockout, how's come RGoodell was willing to do what DSmith wouldn't......

$1 salary!
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

to get noobs like you to ask that question... clearly its a move to garner our sympathy.

I still think the NFL is to blame for starting this whole mess but the players side is really pissing me off... hard to defend them at this point. I sure hope Jeff Driskel is as good as they say he is, so my saturdays can take my mind off of my sundays

TXBRONC
03-15-2011, 10:11 PM
Well, if you need a college team Gator Nation would love to have you. Our teams are fun to watch and we compete for National Championships in many different sports. There is even a large UF fan club Denver(called the mile high gator fan club i think) AND we wont scold you for being a new fan! :D :beer: :welcome:

No thanks I would rather watch FSU.

arapaho2
03-16-2011, 11:26 AM
to get noobs like you to ask that question... clearly its a move to garner our sympathy.

I still think the NFL is to blame for starting this whole mess but the players side is really pissing me off... hard to defend them at this point. I sure hope Jeff Driskel is as good as they say he is, so my saturdays can take my mind off of my sundays


now im not RC's closest bud.....but even i have to laugh at you calling someone who has been on board for 3 years...a noob

if the two of you were compared...you would be the noob of the two

rcsodak
03-16-2011, 11:30 AM
No thanks I would rather watch FSU.

Tx, who wins fsu/ou rematch?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

rcsodak
03-16-2011, 11:33 AM
now im not RC's closest bud.....but even i have to laugh at you calling someone who has been on board for 3 years...a noob

if the two of you were compared...you would be the noob of the two
C'mon, rap.....we're closer than that! More like brother/sister......and always arguing.



Ps. Btw, I'm the brother. :wink:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Denver Native (Carol)
03-16-2011, 11:34 AM
some things from article:


John Mara is "frustrated" by a players' union that he believes isn't interested in striking a "fair deal" with NFL owners. And he says there's "no guarantee" the union's stance won't cost the NFL some regular-season games.

The Giants' co-owner said Tuesday he's puzzled by the Players Association's negotiating tactics, which he believes clearly were always about sending this dispute to the courts. In an interview on ESPN Radio, Mara said the owners "wasted a lot of time down there" in Washington in federal mediation.

"We're ready to sit down at any time, but it just seems like the past couple of weeks we may as well have been sitting there staring at ourselves because not a lot was getting done. It just takes two sides wanting to sit down and negotiate a deal. Right now we only have one."

"The most frustrating part to me was that there was a deal there to be made if they were interested in doing one," he said. "But it became pretty clear to me after the first few days there that they were not interested in negotiating that deal unless it was on their terms."

full article - http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2011/03/16/2011-03-16_new_york_giants_coowner_john_mara_rips_players_ union_tactics_says_nflpa_is_court.html

rcsodak
03-16-2011, 11:43 AM
What would happen, I wonder, if all 32 teams disclosed some P&L numbers from, say the last 5yrs? Just put them out there for all to see.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Nomad
03-16-2011, 12:27 PM
I don't see how a judge could rule against the owners when the NFLPA is still telling the players what they can and can't do!! Decertified my ass, they're still acting like a certified union, which warrants the owners the ability to lock them out!!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/16/brees-signals-that-union-will-approve-organized-player-workouts/

rcsodak
03-16-2011, 12:38 PM
I don't see how a judge could rule against the owners when the NFLPA is still telling the players what they can and can't do!! Decertified my ass, they're still acting like a certified union, which warrants the owners the ability to lock them out!!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/16/brees-signals-that-union-will-approve-organized-player-workouts/

I keep hearing them getting called a Trade Association.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

The Glue Factory
03-17-2011, 10:44 AM
I look back at the game where the NO Saints came onto the field and showed their signs for supporting the Union after the National Anthem was played. Looks like we can see who the front-runner of that plan was.

The Saints got lambasted for that exhibition, as well. Seems Brees didn't learn much.

Seems to me that Brady and Manning are quicker on the uptake and Brees is drinking the PA koolaid. All the negotiations have been "all show" as far as the PA was concerned. As far as I'm concerned at this point the PA is the problem in this whole debacle. I wonder how things will go once Adrian Peterson doesn't get his next few paychecks.

rcsodak
03-17-2011, 12:55 PM
Seems to me that Brady and Manning are quicker on the uptake and Brees is drinking the PA koolaid. All the negotiations have been "all show" as far as the PA was concerned. As far as I'm concerned at this point the PA is the problem in this whole debacle. I wonder how things will go once Adrian Peterson doesn't get his next few paychecks.
RGannon is pushing the TA koolaid today. Nothing but player reps.
Pitts guy, RClark, says out of 150+ hrs of mediating, owners were there for only 8hrs.
Foxworth tried to downplay AD's" slavery" comment. Cornelius Bennett has some frik'n personal issues! Wow!!
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums