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arapaho2
03-14-2011, 03:25 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/14/nflpa-tells-incoming-players-to-boycott-draft/

kinda low down....

Buff
03-14-2011, 03:28 PM
**** the players. At the end of the day they are replaceable and in no way entitled to their exorbitant salaries.

I don't want to see a work stoppage more than anyone else. But part of me would love to see the owners bring in replacement players and tell the NFLPA to shove it.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-14-2011, 03:32 PM
So, a union that no longer exists is trying to bully non-union members into a boycott? Classic...

This is like College Professors who are boycotting a university telling their students not to attend their graduation ceremony...

Good luck with that you clowns. Demaurice Smith should die of Gonorrhea and rot in Hell.

Agent of Orange
03-14-2011, 03:36 PM
So, a union that no longer exists is trying to bully non-union members into a boycott? Classic...

This is like College Professors who are boycotting a university telling their students not to attend their graduation ceremony...

Good luck with that you clowns. Demaurice Smith should die of Gonorrhea and rot in Hell.

Its not like that. College graduates would be leaving their professors. Draft picks would become new union members.

BroncoStud
03-14-2011, 03:37 PM
Its not like that. College graduates would be leaving their professors. Draft picks would become new union members.

Not if there is no union.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-14-2011, 03:38 PM
**** the players. At the end of the day they are replaceable and in no way entitled to their exorbitant salaries.

I don't want to see a work stoppage more than anyone else. But part of me would love to see the owners bring in replacement players and tell the NFLPA to shove it.

Yep, I'd watch football if the Broncos were a bunch of replacements. I root for the name on the front of the jersey first. It's not like the Broncos would have a team of scrubs and everyone else would have their starting rosters. If all teams were scrub players, there would still be competition.

Shit, as far as I'm concerned, all the teams should cancel all the current players' contracts and hold open tryouts for anyone who wants to play. Start everyone off at league minimum with escalators for performance. If the guys that are currently playing don't want to play, f-them. I'd bet there are plenty of arena league, CFL, UFL, and out of work pros who'd love a shot at making league minimum (around $450 K/year) playing football.

How cool would it be just to press a big reset button and just have every team start over with nobodies? It would be awesome, IMO.

BroncoStud
03-14-2011, 03:39 PM
We need there to be SCABS coming in and replacing the existing greedy phucks. The last time that happened Joe Montanta had enough and crosse the picket line and started playing, then the rest followed.

I don't care if it is a bunch of unknowns playing I just want football. The current players and DeMaurice Smith can screw off.

Agent of Orange
03-14-2011, 03:39 PM
Not if there is no union.

Nevertheless, its still a flawed analogy.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-14-2011, 03:40 PM
Its not like that. College graduates would be leaving their professors. Draft picks would become new union members.

Okay fine, it's like the alumni of the school asking them. Either way it's one of the biggest days of their lives and the union* wants them to not participate because they can't behave like grownups?

If I was one of those guys, I'd tell the union* to suck it...

GEM
03-14-2011, 03:46 PM
Okay fine, it's like the alumni of the school asking them. Either way it's one of the biggest days of their lives and the union* wants them to not participate because they can't behave like grownups?

If I was one of those guys, I'd tell the union* to suck it...

Better answer....


You're so smart, we're so dumb. Bow down to thy superior ego.


:lol:

GEM
03-14-2011, 03:47 PM
I was understanding of the player's POV until this.

They want to take EVERYTHING away from the fans in order to further their cause. **** you.

Northman
03-14-2011, 04:06 PM
So they are trying to tell players who have already come out to be drafted not to go. Keeping in mind these guys have not gotten any money yet and would be losing out from the word go. I mean, is Pay-me-a-ton going to pay these youngs guys a salary while they wait for both sides to get their shit together? Then on top of that, exactly which network are these guys going to put the rookies on? Im starting to be convinced that the NFLPA is full of morons. Oh wait, they dont exist so its not relevant. lmao

Nomad
03-14-2011, 04:11 PM
When can players join the NFLPA.....right after they get drafted or right after they declare for the draft?? If the later is the case then some of the draftees may already be union members!

Like an apprenticeship in a labor union(IBEW), at least in my experience, can join the union as soon as they are chosen into the app. and start school!

SR
03-14-2011, 04:12 PM
Dirty.

LTC Pain
03-14-2011, 04:12 PM
I was understanding of the player's POV until this.

They want to take EVERYTHING away from the fans in order to further their cause. **** you.

Word!

Agent of Orange
03-14-2011, 04:13 PM
So they are trying to tell players who have already come out to be drafted not to go. Keeping in mind these guys have not gotten any money yet and would be losing out from the word go. I mean, is Pay-me-a-ton going to pay these youngs guys a salary while they wait for both sides to get their shit together? Then on top of that, exactly which network are these guys going to put the rookies on? Im starting to be convinced that the NFLPA is full of morons. Oh wait, they dont exist so its not relevant. lmao

Well, you also neglected to mention that the NFLPA is probably going to agree to a rookie wage scale on top of what you said.

arapaho2
03-14-2011, 04:16 PM
Yep, I'd watch football if the Broncos were a bunch of replacements. I root for the name on the front of the jersey first. It's not like the Broncos would have a team of scrubs and everyone else would have their starting rosters. If all teams were scrub players, there would still be competition.

Shit, as far as I'm concerned, all the teams should cancel all the current players' contracts and hold open tryouts for anyone who wants to play. Start everyone off at league minimum with escalators for performance. If the guys that are currently playing don't want to play, f-them. I'd bet there are plenty of arena league, CFL, UFL, and out of work pros who'd love a shot at making league minimum (around $450 K/year) playing football.

How cool would it be just to press a big reset button and just have every team start over with nobodies? It would be awesome, IMO.

exactly....the owners could band together and say...we agree together...we will not sign any former players whatso ever ... that all contracts stay ....meaning ...if manning decides to come back...the browns cant grab him...he must go to the colts and they work out his salary

that the max salary would 5 mill per year in the new league..hey if these guys wanna stay back with demorice smith and earn nothing...so be it...you wanna earn between 450k and 5 mill go back in

the world is full of players...i would watch regardless if the players were the new rookies, unsigned players, ufl players, cfl players

GEM
03-14-2011, 04:43 PM
Well, you also neglected to mention that the NFLPA is probably going to agree to a rookie wage scale on top of what you said.

Look at me...look at me....I'm smarter than you.....neeeeener neeeeener.

Seriously, all of your posts come off like this.

SR
03-14-2011, 04:45 PM
I bet all the players that are financially smart are probably thinking about which golf courses and tropical islands they're gonna be visiting this year while all of the rest of the not-so-responsible ones are probably looking for employment so they can pay child support and for their 26" wheels.

Northman
03-14-2011, 04:56 PM
I just feel bad for Travis Henry and his 9 kids. If he doesnt get more money he may to resort to criminal behavior......wait....

SR
03-14-2011, 04:57 PM
I just feel bad for Travis Henry and his 9 kids. If he doesnt get more money he may to resort to criminal behavior......wait....

:laugh:

Uhmmmm

weazel
03-14-2011, 05:35 PM
Yep, I'd watch football if the Broncos were a bunch of replacements. I root for the name on the front of the jersey first. It's not like the Broncos would have a team of scrubs and everyone else would have their starting rosters. If all teams were scrub players, there would still be competition.

Shit, as far as I'm concerned, all the teams should cancel all the current players' contracts and hold open tryouts for anyone who wants to play. Start everyone off at league minimum with escalators for performance. If the guys that are currently playing don't want to play, f-them. I'd bet there are plenty of arena league, CFL, UFL, and out of work pros who'd love a shot at making league minimum (around $450 K/year) playing football.

How cool would it be just to press a big reset button and just have every team start over with nobodies? It would be awesome, IMO.

Yeah and I just hope they sign some dude to play WR with the name Walker and he wears 84... that way I can wear my old jersey thats collecting dust. :elefant:

rcsodak
03-14-2011, 06:02 PM
When can players join the NFLPA.....right after they get drafted or right after they declare for the draft?? If the later is the case then some of the draftees may already be union members!

Like an apprenticeship in a labor union(IBEW), at least in my experience, can join the union as soon as they are chosen into the app. and start school!
Dunno. But you'd think not until they are actually a part of the nfl. Which would mean after they sign a contract.

*Let everybody know that the aforementioned post is PURELY my uninformed opinion, and by NO MEANS is meant to portray I know more than the next guy.*
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arapaho2
03-14-2011, 06:15 PM
Dunno. But you'd think not until they are actually a part of the nfl. Which would mean after they sign a contract.

*Let everybody know that the aforementioned post is PURELY my uninformed opinion, and by NO MEANS is meant to portray I know more than the next guy.*
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums


really? cause thats the way i took it....:beer:

HORSEPOWER 56
03-14-2011, 06:20 PM
Yeah and I just hope they sign some dude to play WR with the name Walker and he wears 84... that way I can wear my old jersey thats collecting dust. :elefant:

Yeah bro, I got one, too. The second he became a Raider I cut the name plate off the back. Now I just have a #84 jersey with no name. I like to think of it as a old Sharpe or a Lloyd jersey after this year...:D

tomjonesrocks
03-14-2011, 06:54 PM
With the current state of affairs, I don't think the talent dropoff on this team by bringing scabs in would be that great. Perhaps some gems might actually be found in the process.

Let's do it.

rcsodak
03-14-2011, 07:24 PM
From what I read, the NFLPA paid the way for the top 15(?) Players/families to go there and wait to be drafted.
Since there is no longer an NFLPA, maybe they're just trying to make the obvious, less obvious?

*Let everybody know that the aforementioned post is PURELY my uninformed opinion, and by NO MEANS is meant to portray I know more than the next guy.*
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

KCL
03-14-2011, 07:38 PM
Look at me...look at me....I'm smarter than you.....neeeeener neeeeener.

Seriously, all of your posts come off like this.

Best watch it there young lady...I got told off/called names for saying pretty much the same thing in a thread last night...:lol:

KCL
03-14-2011, 07:43 PM
I am sick of millionaires crying because they can't be richer...:rolleyes:
I pretty much agree with whomever posted to bring in replacements...it could be interesting.

bcbronc
03-14-2011, 07:54 PM
**** the players. At the end of the day they are replaceable and in no way entitled to their exorbitant salaries.

I don't want to see a work stoppage more than anyone else. But part of me would love to see the owners bring in replacement players and tell the NFLPA to shove it.

on the other hand, the owners are even more replaceable than the players. Do you, or anyone else, give a rat's behind who signs the cheques?

when hockey went through their thing, there was rumblings about the players starting their own league. NFL players have been making a ton more dough the past while than NHL players, so they could do the same.

if the owners re-started the NFL with a bunch of second or third tier scabs, and the NFLPA started a league with all the cream of the crop, which would you watch? Personally, I'm a fan of the Denver Broncos second, and a fan of football first, so I'd go to where the highest quality football is.

bottom line, people need to stop swallowing what EITHER side is shoving down their throats. Both sides are lying ******** that don't give a single shit about us, the fans. both sides went into this fully expecting the previous CBA to expire with no deal done. Negotiations won't be taken seriously until August, n all likelihood.

don't be such suckers. the owners are lying scumbags, just like the players are. Bot sides just care about getting MORE and neither side deserves our support.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-14-2011, 07:57 PM
An offseason turned upside down will continue to get odder.

The NFL Players Association is putting into place a plan that would prevent each top college prospect from attending next month's draft in New York, according to multiple league sources. The NFLPA already has contacted 17 top prospects who ordinarily would have received an invitation to attend the draft and informed them not to go.

Thus, when NFL commissioner Roger Goodell announces the name of the first player selected, the player will not walk onto the stage at Radio City Music Hall as has been the custom. And the player will not be there to do interviews with ESPN or NFL Network. The draft will go on, but not in the manner in which it has been conducted before.

"As of right now, this is 100 percent happening," said one source familiar with the NFL Players Association's thinking. "This is going down."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6216135 - full article

bcbronc
03-14-2011, 07:59 PM
solidarity.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-14-2011, 08:01 PM
Gene Upshaw was so professional and classy, NOTHING like what is going on now would have ever went on when he was the "spokesman" for the players.

UnderArmour
03-14-2011, 08:02 PM
We need there to be SCABS coming in and replacing the existing greedy phucks. The last time that happened Joe Montanta had enough and crosse the picket line and started playing, then the rest followed.

I don't care if it is a bunch of unknowns playing I just want football. The current players and DeMaurice Smith can screw off.

What part about a LOCKOUT do you not understand? This is the OWNERS preventing the players from coming to work, not the players withholding their services for higher pay. The players ARE NOT on strike. The players are LOCKED OUT, unable to enter team facilities. Please read into the situation! Blame can be heaped onto the players no doubt, but to blame the players for not coming to work and call for scabs indicates a huge misunderstanding of the situation on your part.

In fact, the whole reason the player's union decertified was to get an injunction against the owners locking them out in the first place.

Day1BroncoFan
03-14-2011, 08:03 PM
Let the replacement draft begin.

zbeg
03-14-2011, 08:04 PM
I am sick of millionaires crying because they can't be richer...:rolleyes:


The top end of the players makes millions, but the average player does not make quite as much. Well, not annually anyway. Average career is around three years, and average salary is around $750k a year. That sounds pretty good.

...until you realize that they're dying two decades earlier than the average American male. Life expectancy for American males is 78. Life expectancy for former NFL players is 59.

How much is it worth to you to shave off nearly 20 years off your life? Not to mention the quality of life is significantly diminished over the course of their lives due to health issues, brain trauma, etc. Want to be 40 years old and already showing the signs of Alzheimer's? Suit up and play football!

So the players want money? Let 'em have it. I wouldn't trade 20 years of my life for millions of dollars. Money just isn't that important to me. What is important to me, however, is being able to watch the Broncos play every Sunday in the fall.

Maybe that makes me a monster. I don't know.

Though I'm no longer in the stage of my life where finding $5 I didn't know I had meant I got to eat, my wife and I aren't wealthy - and some of these players will make more in a year then we will make in our lifetimes.

But I also get a much longer, healthier, happier lifetime. I don't want to trade that for any amount of money.

The players are damaging their bodies permanently to give us something to watch on Sunday. Let them have their millions; the least we can do is make sure they can get something out of it before they enter the stage of their lives where they're in constant pain and will die early.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-14-2011, 08:05 PM
What part about a LOCKOUT do you not understand? This is the OWNERS preventing the players from coming to work, not the players withholding their services for higher pay. The players ARE NOT on strike. The players are LOCKED OUT, unable to enter team facilities. Please read into the situation! Blame can be heaped onto the players no doubt, but to blame the players for not coming to work and call for scabs indicates a huge misunderstanding of the situation on your part.

In fact, the whole reason the player's union decertified was to get an injunction against the owners locking them out in the first place.

I have read that on here before; however, the union decertified first, and then the owners locked them out, so, therefore, the decertification did NOT stop a lockout. So, there must have been another reason that the players decertified. :confused:

zbeg
03-14-2011, 08:11 PM
I have read that on here before; however, the union decertified first, and then the owners locked them out, so, therefore, the decertification did NOT stop a lockout. So, there must have been another reason that the players decertified. :confused:

Not yet - the decertification allows them to sue for an injunction, and have the lockout stopped. That lawsuit is still pending.

Had they not decertified, they would be unable to sue for that injunction, and would be locked out with no recourse. Also, had they not decertified by the deadine Friday, they would have had to wait six months to decertify and then seek an inunction.

Decertification/injunction gives us the best chance of having no work stoppage in the fall, and us watching NFL football. Even if it takes years to work out in the courts, we can have football under the old CBA, which is essentially what happened from 1989-1992.

Day1BroncoFan
03-14-2011, 08:13 PM
I'll match your boycott and raise you a boycott.

Buff
03-14-2011, 08:18 PM
The top end of the players makes millions, but the average player does not make quite as much. Well, not annually anyway. Average career is around three years, and average salary is around $750k a year. That sounds pretty good.

...until you realize that they're dying two decades earlier than the average American male. Life expectancy for American males is 78. Life expectancy for former NFL players is 59.

How much is it worth to you to shave off nearly 20 years off your life? $225k, which is about what having a child costs you over an 18 year period? Not to mention the quality of life is significantly diminished over the course of their lives due to health issues, brain trauma, etc. Want to be 40 years old and already showing the signs of Alzheimer's? Suit up and play football!

So the players want money? Let 'em have it. I wouldn't trade 20 years of my life for millions of dollars. Money just isn't that important to me. What is important to me, however, is being able to watch the Broncos play every Sunday in the fall.

Maybe that makes me a monster. I don't know.

Though I'm no longer in the stage of my life where finding $5 I didn't know I had meant I got to eat, my wife and I aren't wealthy - and some of these players will make more in a year then we will make in our lifetimes.

But I also get a much longer, healthier, happier lifetime. I don't want to trade that for any amount of money.

The players are damaging their bodies permanently to give us something to watch on Sunday. Let them have their millions; the least we can do is make sure they can get something out of it before they enter the stage of their lives where they're in constant pain and will die early.

Wow, you are really buying what the NFLPA is selling...

You threw out a lot of numbers, which I can neither prove nor disprove. However, I have a hard time believing that the average life expectency is a full 20 years shorter for players. Especially if your stat about the average career being three years long is correct. There is no way both of those numbers can be right.

Furthermore, even after taking a haircut, they are still going to be paid exorbitant salaries. I just don't even have one tiny bit of sympathy for them.

nevcraw
03-14-2011, 08:20 PM
Gene Upshaw was so professional and classy, NOTHING like what is going on now would have ever went on when he was the "spokesman" for the players.

Carol you are the best but come on..

Gene Upshaw was talking potential strike about the owners opting out of this CBA back in 08.

Gene Upshaw lead a strike in 87.. Once the strike failed Gene Upshaw decertfied the Union..
you tell me how different things are now?

Buff
03-14-2011, 08:23 PM
Carol you are the best but come on..

Gene Upshaw was talking potential strike about the owners opting out of this CBA back in 08.

Gene Upshaw lead a strike in 87.. Once the strike failed Gene Upshaw decertfied the Union..
you tell me how different things are now?

Yeah, and how many players have quoted Gene Upshaw directly saying "Gene Upshaw always said 'never give up any money to the owners because you'll never get it back.'"

He set the table for this work stoppage.

zbeg
03-14-2011, 08:28 PM
Wow, you are really buying what the NFLPA is selling...

You threw out a lot of numbers, which I can neither prove nor disprove. However, I have a hard time believing that the average life expectency is a full 20 years shorter for players. Especially if your stat about the average career being three years long is correct. There is no way both of those numbers can be right.

Furthermore, even after taking a haircut, they are still going to be paid exorbitant salaries. I just don't even have one tiny bit of sympathy for them.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_06/b4214058615722.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lifexpec.htm

As for the 59 year life expectancy figure, that's on the high end, depending on position. As low as 53.

http://www.seattlepi.com/football/362412_nflhealth09.html

So I might have understated how early they die.

Millions of dollars, or living an extra 20-25 years? I know what choice I'd take.

UnderArmour
03-14-2011, 08:31 PM
I have read that on here before; however, the union decertified first, and then the owners locked them out, so, therefore, the decertification did NOT stop a lockout. So, there must have been another reason that the players decertified. :confused:

Uh, the players HAD to decertify at some point to block a lockout. If the players had waited until after the CBA expired to decertifty, it would be 6 months before they could file an antitrust lawsuit. By doing it prior to the CBA expiring, they will be able to block a lockout and likely resolve this in court before the season would have started. If the player's union were still a union and not a trade association, there would be no way for them to get an injunction to block a lockout because the owners would be in their rights to lock them out.

This was the only tool the players had to combat the lockout that the owners had obviously been preparing for since they opted out of the CBA 2 years ago. Decertifying was a common sense move by the union. Not allowing for another CBA-talk extension without a promise to see audits from the owners? That's an entirely different debate.

nevcraw
03-14-2011, 08:39 PM
Yeah, and how many players have quoted Gene Upshaw directly saying "Gene Upshaw always said 'never give up any money to the owners because you'll never get it back.'"

He set the table for this work stoppage.

I do not look at it this way.. The super success of the NFL set the table. the owners save Cinci and Buff set the table as much as Upshaw for agreeing to the last CBA.
I have no issue whatsoever with the players for negotiating for the best deal the market will bare. and yet the players are demonized for not blindly accepting a pay cut? this is just crazy to me..

KCL
03-14-2011, 08:45 PM
Look at how many of these players signed big contracts...now they don't want to stick with their contracts..is there something I'm not understanding?

As far as how long these guys live...not sure I buy into that...there's plenty of players still around that played years ago when there weren't any of the rules that are in place now.The players weren't as protected as they are now.

Hell I've known plenty of people who died fairly young who never played football.

Also the Chiefs signed Eric Berry to a huge contract when he was drafted last season.Made him the highest paid safety in the NFL..Is his contract now void?

Nomad
03-14-2011, 08:51 PM
Wow, you are really buying what the NFLPA is selling...

You threw out a lot of numbers, which I can neither prove nor disprove. However, I have a hard time believing that the average life expectency is a full 20 years shorter for players. Especially if your stat about the average career being three years long is correct. There is no way both of those numbers can be right.

Furthermore, even after taking a haircut, they are still going to be paid exorbitant salaries. I just don't even have one tiny bit of sympathy for them.

:ohwell:you choose your career! If I wanted to die early from the effects of my job, I would have been a welder! I have no sympathy for NFL players as well.....Robert Smith knew he didn't want that life and stepped away!!

UnderArmour
03-14-2011, 09:03 PM
Look at how many of these players signed big contracts...now they don't want to stick with their contracts..is there something I'm not understanding?

As far as how long these guys live...not sure I buy into that...there's plenty of players still around that played years ago when there weren't any of the rules that are in place now.The players weren't as protected as they are now.

Hell I've known plenty of people who died fairly young who never played football.

Also the Chiefs signed Eric Berry to a huge contract when he was drafted last season.Made him the highest paid safety in the NFL..Is his contract now void?

Huh? The players are not on strike; they are being locked out. The OWNERS are preventing the players from going to the team facility and otherwise playing out the season at this point, NOT the other way around. Why do people keep getting this mixed up? Just because you want to blame the players for the current mess does not change the facts. There is plenty of blame to go around for the current situation, but can people at least go read the situation and lay blames where blames are due instead of just making things up or going with assumptions of "THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT TO PLAY!"

Decertifying was all about players who are currently under contract being able to play under their existing contracts. Antitrust litigation is an aim to block the lockout on the grounds that there is no union to lock out rather each player has an independent contract with an independent business so the businesses would have to honor their end of contracts with their employees because there is no union to lock out.

Buff
03-14-2011, 09:05 PM
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_06/b4214058615722.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lifexpec.htm

As for the 59 year life expectancy figure, that's on the high end, depending on position. As low as 53.

http://www.seattlepi.com/football/362412_nflhealth09.html

So I might have understated how early they die.

Millions of dollars, or living an extra 20-25 years? I know what choice I'd take.

Couple of things: The Seattlepi.com link does say the average life expectency is 53-59, but it's based on one doctor's opinion who has screened approximately 35 former players. While it is does provide some basis for further investigation, I wouldn't say that it's based on a statistically significant sample size. Frankly, I find it somewhat unbelievable.

Either way, it's a moot point, the player safety discussion is almost irrelevant to this discussion IMO. It's a tactic used by the NFLPA to shift the focus.

If we believe Kevin Mawae that the owners are asking the players to take a 20% paycut (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8160787c/printable/mawae-owners-players-on-opposite-10yard-lines-on-new-cba), then we're talking about going from an average annual salary of $1.9 million to $1.5 million. Or $750,000 to $600,000 based on the median figure. (I tend to think the paycut would be less than that considering 20% is the figure Mawae quoted 14 months ago before either side began serious negotiations.)

Anyway, my point is that these players are still going to be millionaires. They are still getting a great salary to play a game for a living. We're not asking them to live below the poverty line here - or anywhere close to it for that matter. If they don't want to work for the price, let the owners find someone who will.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-14-2011, 09:28 PM
Couple of things: The Seattlepi.com link does say the average life expectency is 53-59, but it's based on one doctor's opinion who has screened approximately 35 former players. While it is does provide some basis for further investigation, I wouldn't say that it's based on any sound statistical data. Frankly, I find it somewhat unbelievable.

Either way, it's a moot point, the player safety discussion is almost irrelevant to this discussion IMO. It's a tactic used by the NFLPA to shift the focus.

If we believe Kevin Mawae that the owners are asking the players to take a 20% paycut (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8160787c/printable/mawae-owners-players-on-opposite-10yard-lines-on-new-cba), then we're talking about going from an average annual salary of $1.9 million to $1.5 million. Or $750,000 to $600,000 based on the median figure. (I tend to think the paycut would be less than that considering 20% is the figure Mawae quote three months ago before either side began serious negotiations.)

Anyway, my point is that these players are still going to be millionaires. They are still getting a great salary to play a game for a living. We're not asking them to live below the poverty line here - or anywhere close to it for that matter. If they don't want to work for the price, let the owners find someone who will.

What Mawae is saying is also completely misleading. Not a single active player in the NFL will lose ONE RED CENT. Nobody currently being paid is taking a pay cut. The only potential "pay cut" is what may be paid to future players.

Poor worthless douche bags like Jawalrus Russel won't get paid 50 million dollars guaranteed before they take a single snap... Are the players really fighting for that?

BTW, that article is from over a year ago.

FanInAZ
03-14-2011, 09:35 PM
If the player's union were still a union and not a trade association

If it looks like a :duck:, walks like a :duck: and quacks like a :duck:; then its a :duck:

The players' non-union union is still a union no matter what ridiculous technicality that some high priced lawyer can come up with.

KCL
03-14-2011, 10:06 PM
Huh? The players are not on strike; they are being locked out. The OWNERS are preventing the players from going to the team facility and otherwise playing out the season at this point, NOT the other way around. Why do people keep getting this mixed up? Just because you want to blame the players for the current mess does not change the facts. There is plenty of blame to go around for the current situation, but can people at least go read the situation and lay blames where blames are due instead of just making things up or going with assumptions of "THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT TO PLAY!"

Decertifying was all about players who are currently under contract being able to play under their existing contracts. Antitrust litigation is an aim to block the lockout on the grounds that there is no union to lock out rather each player has an independent contract with an independent business so the businesses would have to honor their end of contracts with their employees because there is no union to lock out.

Well I did ask if there was something I wasn't understanding...either way..it sounds as if the players and the owners don't want to budge.

From reading through this whole thread and other articles..are people getting all the correct info?

Millionaires and Billionaires arguing about money when like slick said in another thread...some people are without jobs and struggling to make ends meet.

We the fans more than likely don't even know everything that is involved with this.All I know is it sounds like a load of BS...SELFISH IDIOTS..ALL OF THEM..IMO.

UnderArmour
03-14-2011, 10:35 PM
Well I did ask if there was something I wasn't understanding...either way..it sounds as if the players and the owners don't want to budge.

From reading through this whole thread and other articles..are people getting all the correct info?

Millionaires and Billionaires arguing about money when like slick said in another thread...some people are without jobs and struggling to make ends meet.

We the fans more than likely don't even know everything that is involved with this.All I know is it sounds like a load of BS...SELFISH IDIOTS..ALL OF THEM..IMO.

Whole situation reeks of greed, really but I'll go ahead and simplify it the best I can.

The owners gave the players a monster deal last CBA negotiations then opted out 2 years ago.
Meanwhile, owners had negotiated television contract, staff contracts, and even some player contracts to prepare them to save money in the event that if they had to lockout the players to get themselves a better deal next negotiations, they were prepared to do so.
Osi Umenyora is a plaintiff to allege that the owners had colluded to give incentive laden contracts for the 2011 season to avoid paying players in the event of a lockout.
The players all along have been willing to extend the old CBA, this has never been about them receiving more money or a bigger chunk of the pie they had already.

Anyways, as everyone had suspected, the owners were going to ask for money back. How much? The players asked.
The owners said $1 billion. The players balked and they wanted to see the evidence.
The owners said okay, maybe we asked for too much. $600 million instead? The players said possibly, but if you want money back we'll need to see your books from the last 10 years to verify you guys actually need it for your operational costs and you aren't just blowing it overpaying family members.
Owners said, can't we just get an extension and talk this over?
Players said, no more extensions unless you hand over 10 years of audits for us to work from.
Owners said no.
The owners asked for an extension again.
The players were adamant about not giving an extension without the audits.
The owners said no and called the player's bluff.
Players follow through with what they claim they will do and decertify to preempt the owners outright locking them out.

In exchange for giving up their rights under labor protection laws, the union was able to become a Trade Organization instead of a union. Unions can be locked out under Federal law, non-unionized players cannot be. The owners rationale for locking out players now is that decertification is a sham.

By decertifying, the players take their case to court and make various collusion allegations on the part of the 32 clubs and seek an injunction to block their lockout of the players on the grounds that the players are employees and have contracts with the 32 separate businesses.

Various legal attacking points for the players: The Draft, the Franchise Tag, Restricted Free Agency(?), Incentive laden contracts, and other stuff that makes any fan's head spin.

The owners allege that the player decertification forced for them to lock them out.
The players claim that the owners were going to lock them out regardless and this was the only chance they had to fight it.

The players would have had no legal recourse for 6 months had they decertified AFTER the CBA expired in accordance with Federal law. The players would have had no legal recourse PERIOD had they not decertified and the owners lockout of the players would be entirely legal.

As far as a resolution goes, we will not see CBA talks resume until after the court hearings start. If there is an injunction issued on the lockout, expect for owners to be more willing to open their books. But, nothing is certain at this point.

KCL
03-14-2011, 11:01 PM
Thanks for the info UA...Sounds like a mess to me...this going back and forth.
UGH..I don't know what to think...was reading some info from Chiefs owner
Clark Hunt...here is what he had to say if you're interested.


The NFL players are suing the owners, who in turn have barred the players from their practice and conditioning facilities.

“If we still don’t have an agreement by mid-August, then that’s a scenario that’s bad for everybody,” Hunt said. “It’s bad for the owners, it’s bad for the players and it’s certainly bad for the fans.

“I’m disappointed that the negotiations broke down yesterday, but I’m not discouraged about getting a deal done at some point in the future. I think what happened yesterday is just part of the process, and ultimately we’ll be able to get a deal with the union that preserves the 2011 season. There’s still a lot of time.”

Hunt, as a member of the NFL’s labor negotiations committee, was involved with the negotiations.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/03/12/2721078/in-the-face-of-football-uncertainty.html#ixzz1Ge3wBhAm

I just posted part of the article per board rules.

Northman
03-15-2011, 03:34 AM
The top end of the players makes millions, but the average player does not make quite as much. Well, not annually anyway. Average career is around three years, and average salary is around $750k a year. That sounds pretty good.

...until you realize that they're dying two decades earlier than the average American male. Life expectancy for American males is 78. Life expectancy for former NFL players is 59.

How much is it worth to you to shave off nearly 20 years off your life? Not to mention the quality of life is significantly diminished over the course of their lives due to health issues, brain trauma, etc. Want to be 40 years old and already showing the signs of Alzheimer's? Suit up and play football!

So the players want money? Let 'em have it. I wouldn't trade 20 years of my life for millions of dollars. Money just isn't that important to me. What is important to me, however, is being able to watch the Broncos play every Sunday in the fall.

Maybe that makes me a monster. I don't know.

Though I'm no longer in the stage of my life where finding $5 I didn't know I had meant I got to eat, my wife and I aren't wealthy - and some of these players will make more in a year then we will make in our lifetimes.

But I also get a much longer, healthier, happier lifetime. I don't want to trade that for any amount of money.

The players are damaging their bodies permanently to give us something to watch on Sunday. Let them have their millions; the least we can do is make sure they can get something out of it before they enter the stage of their lives where they're in constant pain and will die early.

Oh please. Its not like EVERY player is doomed to die or lose 20 years of their life. There are plenty of players who are still alive and played in a worse era when the sport could actually hit each other. Is money the be all end all? Nope. But considering im 40 and my wife and i still live paycheck to paycheck i would take that $750 grand in a heartbeat. Why do i want to be running around in a diaper at age 70? Furthermore, some of those players arent even investing or putting money away to benefit themselves or their families. :lol:

*edit*

I will also add that if anyone should be paid "more" money it would be the military personnel who put their lives at risk everyday. So sorry if i just cant feel sorry for guys who drive around with fancy cars, wear bling and act like morons by running over guys in the street with their SUV while intoxicated, set up dog fighting rings, and have several kids by several different women because they dont know what a condom is. At the end of the day its just about greed for both sides but dont come on here trying to throw a ******* pity party for the players. Plenty of people die before their time and are a lot worse off and dont get paid millions of dollars in the process.

Dirk
03-15-2011, 06:43 AM
Back to the original OP....

I think that the NFLPA are acting like asshats on this one. If you sit aside the $$ and look at what this event is, it's just wrong.

The players coming out that will go in the first round have been looking forward to this day for years. Being drafted in the first round is HUGE to a player. So in order to try and make a point, they SCREW these young players out of something they have worked hard for.

It's petty and it's wrong. Give them their moment in the spotlight. They deserve it.

atwater27
03-15-2011, 07:54 AM
Oh please. Its not like EVERY player is doomed to die or lose 20 years of their life. There are plenty of players who are still alive and played in a worse era when the sport could actually hit each other. Is money the be all end all? Nope. But considering im 40 and my wife and i still live paycheck to paycheck i would take that $750 grand in a heartbeat. Why do i want to be running around in a diaper at age 70? Furthermore, some of those players arent even investing or putting money away to benefit themselves or their families. :lol:

*edit*

I will also add that if anyone should be paid "more" money it would be the military personnel who put their lives at risk everyday. So sorry if i just cant feel sorry for guys who drive around with fancy cars, wear bling and act like morons by running over guys in the street with their SUV while intoxicated, set up dog fighting rings, and have several kids by several different women because they dont know what a condom is. At the end of the day its just about greed for both sides but dont come on here trying to throw a ******* pity party for the players. Plenty of people die before their time and are a lot worse off and dont get paid millions of dollars in the process.

Truth to Power North!

gregbroncs
03-15-2011, 09:20 AM
on the other hand, the owners are even more replaceable than the players. Do you, or anyone else, give a rat's behind who signs the cheques?

when hockey went through their thing, there was rumblings about the players starting their own league. NFL players have been making a ton more dough the past while than NHL players, so they could do the same.

if the owners re-started the NFL with a bunch of second or third tier scabs, and the NFLPA started a league with all the cream of the crop, which would you watch? Personally, I'm a fan of the Denver Broncos second, and a fan of football first, so I'd go to where the highest quality football is.

bottom line, people need to stop swallowing what EITHER side is shoving down their throats. Both sides are lying ******** that don't give a single shit about us, the fans. both sides went into this fully expecting the previous CBA to expire with no deal done. Negotiations won't be taken seriously until August, n all likelihood.

don't be such suckers. the owners are lying scumbags, just like the players are. Bot sides just care about getting MORE and neither side deserves our support.

Nobody would watch the NFL player's. They would not have coaches, jersey's, stadiums, flights to meet to play, or anything else needed to hold the games. The player's don't want those burden's and getting them to agree on a share for each player would be hilarious. Face it the player's need the league more than the owner's need this set of player's.

rcsodak
03-15-2011, 02:42 PM
Oh please. Its not like EVERY player is doomed to die or lose 20 years of their life. There are plenty of players who are still alive and played in a worse era when the sport could actually hit each other. Is money the be all end all? Nope. But considering im 40 and my wife and i still live paycheck to paycheck i would take that $750 grand in a heartbeat. Why do i want to be running around in a diaper at age 70? Furthermore, some of those players arent even investing or putting money away to benefit themselves or their families. :lol:

*edit*

I will also add that if anyone should be paid "more" money it would be the military personnel who put their lives at risk everyday. So sorry if i just cant feel sorry for guys who drive around with fancy cars, wear bling and act like morons by running over guys in the street with their SUV while intoxicated, set up dog fighting rings, and have several kids by several different women because they dont know what a condom is. At the end of the day its just about greed for both sides but dont come on here trying to throw a ******* pity party for the players. Plenty of people die before their time and are a lot worse off and dont get paid millions of dollars in the process.
LMAO.....exactly.

Broken bones/joints/ligaments are the results of playing this game. If there is ANY player that doesn't know that going in, they don't deserve to belong, imo.
The Legacy players, ok, they deserve help.

Boxers know their sport's consequences. Basketball players know they may walk with crutches.
Common denominator for all sports is the players ALL know what they're getting into beforehand, and are well compensated.
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rcsodak
03-15-2011, 02:53 PM
Nobody would watch the NFL player's. They would not have coaches, jersey's, stadiums, flights to meet to play, or anything else needed to hold the games. The player's don't want those burden's and getting them to agree on a share for each player would be hilarious. Face it the player's need the league more than the owner's need this set of player's.
No doubt! Many of these players spent 2yrs in college taking classes that I would venture to say, aren't the toughest. Most have their agents handling their money out of necessity....'derrr...how could I be overdrawn? I still have checks left!'
How many players out there are smart enough to 'own/operate a team?

:laugh:
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