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Bronco9798
10-05-2008, 07:23 AM
The team's No. 1 draft choice in 2007, Moss has been inactive for two of the Broncos' four games this season, and NFL Sirius Radio has already reported he will be inactive today against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Don't know how reliable Sirius Radio is. But, again inactive? Amazing.

Retired_Member_001
10-05-2008, 07:27 AM
:tsk:

That's all I can say.

Davii
10-05-2008, 08:42 AM
Moss better show something soon. If he doesn't start returning some pressure I don't think we'll be worrying about him being active next season, he'll be at home.

LRtagger
10-05-2008, 08:48 AM
B-u-s-t

Slick
10-05-2008, 10:07 AM
I hope he gets one more year. I really hate to write him off already, but he sure hasn't shown us much.

Watch him go to a team with good defensive coaches and turn in to a sack machine...

Italianmobstr7
10-05-2008, 10:26 AM
I hope he gets one more year. I really hate to write him off already, but he sure hasn't shown us much.

Watch him go to a team with good defensive coaches and turn in to a sack machine...

I'm not ready to write him off yet. This is his first real season with us. He got hurt last year and missed about half of the season. It's rare that a rookie DE, or a DE in his first year do well ala Mario Williams. I don't think that Moss will be anywhere as good as Williams because he just doesn't have the size or strength, but I don't think that he's a bust until he's really getting some playing time and he's gotten to play for more than a year.

Broncolingus
10-05-2008, 10:33 AM
Moss better show something soon. If he doesn't start returning some pressure I don't think we'll be worrying about him being active next season, he'll be at home.

It's...too late for that, my son.

http://www.gpsice.co.uk/images/Darth-vader.jpg

BroncoJoe
10-05-2008, 10:38 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10639945


It pays well. Everything else about the NFL, though, has been a difficult adjustment for Broncos defensive end Jarvis Moss.

The team's No. 1 draft choice in 2007, Moss has been inactive for two of the Broncos' four games this season, and NFL Sirius Radio has already reported he will be inactive today against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Moss' struggles have not been for a lack of effort. Whatever he has, Moss is giving it.

"That's what I do," he said. "I give effort. I go chase the ball. I think that's a given for me. My performance, it's never as good as you want it to be, but I'm making strides. There's always plays you wish you could get back but you can't. All I can ask of myself is to give it my all."

As the Broncos were entering the 2007 draft, they were turning over the defense to new coordinator Jim Bates, who was about to employ his unique, seven-man box system. That draft correlated with Bates' system. Bates is gone. His system is gone. The draft picks remain.

For different reasons, Moss and second-round draft pick Tim Crowder, another defensive end, have not made the impact expected for players guaranteed to collect a combined $10.1 million. One reason why Moss has one career sack is the fractured right fibula he suffered near his ankle halfway through his rookie season. Nothing figures to hinder a speed rusher more than a serious lower leg injury.

"I try not to think about that anymore," he said. "The ankle is coming around. It's sore from time to time but other than that, it's pretty healthy. I don't like to use it as a crutch or think about it because it might hold me back mentally."

Late hit.

For all it mattered to them, the Broncos would have preferred the 15-yard penalty for roughing the passer. Kansas City Chief defensive end Turk McBride got away with his late hit on Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler during the game last Sunday, but he didn't escape punishment from the league office. McBride was fined $5,000 for clobbering Cutler two steps after the Broncos' quarterback released the ball. For some reason, referee Mike Carey didn't flag the infraction.

Footnotes.

Broncos defensive end Elvis Dumervil, on rebounding from losing last week to the then 0-3 Kansas City Chiefs: "We easily could have jumped out 4-0. Now everybody's back in the hunt (in the AFC West). But it's a 16-round fight. Now we'll check our courage to see how we bounce back from it." . . .

The Bucs giveth and taketh away. Their offense has thrown an NFL-high seven interceptions (six in the last two games by Brian Griese). But their defense is tied for the league lead with eight interceptions.

jrelway
10-05-2008, 10:44 AM
that 10.1 mil needs to go elsewhere.

omac
10-05-2008, 10:53 AM
He's inactive again. That doesn't mean he's having a hard time cracking the starting lineup .... he's having a hard time just cracking the rotation as a backup or situational player. They don't see any worth in him playing against the Bucs, that they'd rather use the roster spot on someone else.

I think Shanny tries to shop him around for a draft pick way before the season ends.

Retired_Member_001
10-05-2008, 12:46 PM
He's inactive again. That doesn't mean he's having a hard time cracking the starting lineup .... he's having a hard time just cracking the rotation as a backup or situational player. They don't see any worth in him playing against the Bucs, that they'd rather use the roster spot on someone else.

I think Shanny tries to shop him around for a draft pick way before the season ends.

I see him getting cut by the end of the season.

Dean
10-05-2008, 06:10 PM
I see him getting cut by the end of the season.

His specialty is the pass rush and so far he has shown nothing of note in that regard so far.

He is only what 255 lbs which is too small to play the run and he has said he has given up trying to gain weight.

It sounds to me like he has not yet realized that unless he shows something soon he is gone. For that kind of money, some production is expected.

LRtagger
10-06-2008, 09:44 AM
put him at MLB :noidea:

broncofaninfla
10-06-2008, 09:47 AM
The guy is a dud. I'd trade him for a 7th rounder at this point IF anybody would be willing and I doubt that would even happen.

mopatt24
10-06-2008, 10:55 AM
I hate to write him off as a bust so early in his career, but damn. He can't even crack the rotation on the d-line. Lets see if we can get anything for him I guess

DenBronx
10-06-2008, 11:26 AM
put him at MLB :noidea:

that might take at least a whole year to adjust to that. its worth a try but if he doesnt fit into a 3-4 defense and cant make the line up when we play 4-3 then he is on his way out. we might seriously want to trade him and crowder while we can still get a decent pick for them and unload both salaries.

i dont think this is the year but if we go after some key free agents on defense then we might be heading deep into the playoffs. it might take getting rid of our 2007 #1 and #3 draftees.

broncofaninfla
10-06-2008, 12:30 PM
I bet he is out of the league in two years.

Lonestar
10-06-2008, 01:22 PM
I bet he is out of the league in two years.

lots of mikeys Daft choices are..

Requiem / The Dagda
10-06-2008, 01:33 PM
lots of mikeys Daft choices are..

Yep, as are most teams.

Lonestar
10-06-2008, 01:51 PM
Yep, as are most teams.

Few if any like mikeys during the DAFTING years..

day one choices for mikey

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan


Pray tell how many of them lasted 3 years on our team and of them how many were real starters By that I mean someone that would have made some other or the better teams as a starter..

DJ, Al, Kennedy, Poortis, greasy

all the rest were for the most part kept because of their draft status and most were gone from the game after their third preseason because we had to draft or sign a FA another player to take their sorry spot..

Yes I will concede that other teams have failures on day one but I doubt any of the elite teams which everyone seems to feel DEN is have this kind of record on day one picks..

Of those players how many were not re-signed..

broncofaninfla
10-06-2008, 03:16 PM
I'll stop short of criticizing Shannahan, I'd take him over any coach in the NFL. Every team has busts and every team finds sleepers. We had a great draft last year, no reason we can't do it two years in a row.

MOtorboat
10-06-2008, 03:22 PM
:whoo:

The list of draft picks again!

56crash
10-06-2008, 03:25 PM
lots of mikeys Daft choices are..

You are full of horse crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! people need to realize a good draft is go do some Research before you talk out your ass !

Medford Bronco
10-06-2008, 03:25 PM
Reggie Hayward was a good one.

Gold was pretty good before going to Tampa.
Delta Oniel when he concetrates is pretty good as well

So not all are stiffs

56crash
10-06-2008, 03:44 PM
Few if any like mikeys during the DAFTING years..

day one choices for mikey

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.) In the leaug great player
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State still playing
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia detriot
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii still playing
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.) Still playing
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State Good player should of keept

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California good player
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan Good player
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas Good player for us and detroit
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee Great player
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech Good player for us better player for the colts
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke okay player for us better play for the redskins
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois stop gap player for us Played 3 years for the bills
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida still trying to make a squad yep he sucks but his dad is really good friends with coach ....

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State Played 4 years with us he sucked then he played 4or 5 years with the Texans yep he sucked
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan what ? everyone knows that after his sholder was worked on he was not the same player so who really knows ?


Pray tell how many of them lasted 3 years on our team and of them how many were real starters By that I mean someone that would have made some other or the better teams as a starter..

DJ, Al, Kennedy, Poortis, greasy

all the rest were for the most part kept because of their draft status and most were gone from the game after their third preseason because we had to draft or sign a FA another player to take their sorry spot..

Yes I will concede that other teams have failures on day one but I doubt any of the elite teams which everyone seems to feel DEN is have this kind of record on day one picks..

Of those players how many were not re-signed..

you usaly get one starter per draft people need to get a grip . you guys when knocking Shanahan always leave out some of Coachs gold mine players that he always seems to come up with in the RookieFA and RFA's just after the main season is over players that never played that year Bertran Berry and there are more. we as a team draft really good at TE's O line and really we are pretty darn good at drafting QB's

As a GM Coach is up and Down I think as of right now he is in full up swing .:beer:

LRtagger
10-06-2008, 04:12 PM
you usaly get one starter per draft


I'm not trying to get in on this debate, but this statement is absolutely not true.

You draft players that you think will play. If that wasn't the case then people would use their #1 to draft their lone starter and then pull the rest of their picks from a hat.

The teams that only aquire one starter per draft are the teams that don't know how to draft properly. There is no excuse for only obtaining one starter from 7+ picks.

Lonestar
10-06-2008, 06:29 PM
I'm not trying to get in on this debate, but this statement is absolutely not true.

You draft players that you think will play. If that wasn't the case then people would use their #1 to draft their lone starter and then pull the rest of their picks from a hat.

The teams that only aquire one starter per draft are the teams that don't know how to draft properly. There is no excuse for only obtaining one starter from 7+ picks.


Your correct here BUT:

There are excuses if your in love with mikey the coach..

But we both know that that has been the bane of this club since Elway left..

mikey drafted TD in the sixth and since then has relied on sleepers and LUCK to get him by..

and getting by is what we did from 2000 to 2005 or perhaps 06 when we picked up players and several starters..

Got back and look at all the losers on that list..

day one picks or now that top 100 players should all be starters in the NFL somewhere or at least 80% should be.. And now that does not take into account those players that are taken and play and then are injured.. Those are things that can not be for seen.. but for the most part any of the top 100 players each year should see there way into a starting roll somewhere in the NFL. We are talking 3 starters per team or at least contributers.. Maybe they do not start the first year because SOME teams actually have a plan to replace players that are getting to the end of their playing days OR they are going to command such a huge bonus to resign them really good teams have contingency plans..

Not every team is like DEN that has 5-8 holes to fill the next year and are taking 3 DL or 3 CB types in one year.

NOW mikey is superb offensive coach.. no doubt about it.. give him the toys and he can do wonderful things..

But a personnel guy he is not or someone was not between 1998 and 2005.. go look at the losers he approved to be dafted during that time frame.

Did some of them ply sure they did.. did some of them start absolutely but the real test is have they been replaced or moved on to other teams are they still playing.. even on DET dreadful team only Kennedy is still playing for them out of the 3-5 players that have went there from here.. same thing applies to those going to HOU.. How many are really playing or are they disaster backups..

Yes Gold was pretty good but we had a better DL and AL Wilson next to him.. Maybe it was that and not really gold.. Since TPA was reluctant to keep him there one wonders if they were the smart ones..

Look I know that many of you're willing to overlook mikeys deficiencies in personnel because he puts a good offense on the field..

But think in this manner..

1998 instead of marcus nash we could have had the following players..
35 Tony Parrish FS Washington Chicago Bears
38 Flozell Adams G Michigan State Dallas Cowboys
44 Patrick Surtain DB Southern Mississippi Miami Dolphins
46 Samari Rolle CB Florida State Tennessee Oilers

instead of eric brown
65 Leonard Little LB Tennessee St. Louis Rams
72 Jeremiah Trotter LB Stephen F. Austin St. Philadelphia Eagles
76 Ahman Green RB Nebraska Seattle Seahawks

instead of brain greasy
92 Hines Ward WR Georgia Pittsburgh Steelers
95 Michael Pittman RB Fresno State Arizona Cardinals

1999 instead of reagor, friedman or watson
73 Joey Porter LB Colorado State Pittsburgh Steelers
78 Marty Booker WR Louisiana-Monroe Chicago Bears
87 Mike McKenzie CB Memphis Green Bay Packers

instead of mcgriff
95 Amos Zereoue RB West Virginia Pittsburgh Steelers
105 Brandon Stokley WR Louisiana-Lafayette Baltimore Ravens

2000 instead of delta o
16 Julian Peterson OLB Michigan State San Francisco 49ers
17 Sebastian Janikowski K Florida State Oakland Raiders
18 Chad Pennington QB Marshall New York Jets
19 Shaun Alexander RB Alabama Seattle Seahawks
20 Stockar McDougle T Oklahoma Detroit Lions
22 Chris McIntosh T Wisconsin Seattle Seahawks
23 Rashard Anderson FS Jackson State Carolina Panthers
24 Ahmed Plummer CB Ohio State San Francisco 49ers
25 Chris Hovan DT Boston College Minnesota Vikings
26 Erik Flowers DE Arizona State Buffalo Bills
27 Anthony Becht TE West Virginia New York Jets
28 Rob Morris LB Brigham Young Indianapolis Colts
29 R.Jay Soward WR USC Jacksonville Jaguars
30 Keith Bulluck LB Syracuse Tennessee Titans

instead of gold
42 Cornelius Griffin DT Alabama New York Giants
47 Jerry Porter WR West Virginia Oakland Raiders

in 2001 middlebroken
25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA Philadelphia Eagles
27 Michael Bennett RB Wisconsin Minnesota Vikings
28 Derrick Gibson DB Florida State Oakland Raiders
29 Ryan Pickett DT Ohio State St. Louis Rams
30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (Fla.) Indianapolis Colts
31 Todd Heap TE Arizona State Baltimore Ravens
32 Drew Brees QB Purdue San Diego Chargers
33 Quincy Morgan WR Kansas State Cleveland Browns
34 Kyle Vanden Bosch DE Nebraska Arizona Cardinals
35 Alge Crumpler TE North Carolina Atlanta Falcons
36 Chad Johnson WR Oregon State Cincinnati Bengals
38 Anthony Thomas RB Michigan Chicago Bears
39 Kendrell Bell ILB Georgia Pittsburgh Steelers
40 Ken Lucas CB Mississippi Seattle Seahawks
44 Kris Jenkins DT Maryland Carolina Panthers
45 Fred Smoot CB Mississippi State Washington Redskins
46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian Buffalo Bills

instead of toivies
52 Chris Chambers WR Wisconsin Miami Dolphins
53 Quincy Carter QB Georgia Dallas Cowboys
60 Andre Dyson CB Utah Tennessee Titans
61 Shaun Rogers NT Texas Detroit Lions
62 Gary Baxter DB Baylor Baltimore Ravens

2002
instead of ashely
20 Javon Walker WR Florida State Green Bay Packers
21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado New England Patriots
22 Bryan Thomas DE Alabama-Birmingham New York Jets
23 Napoleon Harris MLB Northwestern Oakland Raiders
24 Ed Reed SS Miami (Fla.) Baltimore Ravens
25 Charles Grant DE Georgia New Orleans Saints
26 Lito Sheppard CB Florida Philadelphia Eagles
37 Andre Gurode G Colorado Dallas Cowboys
44 LeCharles Bentley G Ohio State New Orleans Saints

2003
instead of foster.
21 Jeff Faine C Notre Dame Cleveland Browns
22 Rex Grossman QB Florida Chicago Bears
23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.) Buffalo Bills
24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa Indianapolis Colts
25 William Joseph DT Miami (Fla.) New York Giants
26 Kwame Harris T Stanford San Francisco 49ers
27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State Kansas City Chiefs
28 Andre Woolfolk CB Oklahoma Tennessee Titans
29 Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State Green Bay Packers
30 Sammy Davis CB Texas A&M San Diego Chargers
31 Nnamdi Asomugha CB California Oakland Raiders

instead of pierce.
54 Anquan Boldin WR Florida State Arizona Cardinals
55 Bryan Scott SS Penn State Atlanta Falcons
56 Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State New York Giants
68 Lance Briggs OLB Arizona Chicago Bears

2004
instead of DJ who I'm pretty happy with..
20 Kenechi Udeze DE USC Minnesota Vikings
21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.) New England Patriots
22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane Buffalo Bills
23 Marcus Tubbs DT Texas Seattle Seahawks
24 Steven Jackson RB Oregon State St. Louis Rams

instead of tater
43 Julius Jones RB Notre Dame Dallas Cowboys
44 Bob Sanders DB Iowa Indianapolis Colts
45 Jake Grove G Virginia Tech Oakland Raiders
46 Justin Smiley G Alabama San Francisco 49ers
47 Tank Johnson DT Washington Chicago Bears
48 Dontarrious Thomas OLB Auburn Minnesota Vikings
49 Keiwan Ratliff CB Florida Cincinnati Bengals
50 Devery Henderson WR Louisiana State New Orleans Saints
51 Dwan Edwards DT Oregon State Baltimore Ravens
52 Jacob Rogers T USC Dallas Cowboys
53 Michael Boulware DB Florida State

instead of ONE handed Watts.
55 Greg Jones RB Florida State Jacksonville Jaguars
56 Madieu Williams FS Maryland Cincinnati Bengals
57 Antwan Odom DE Alabama Tennessee Titans
58 Shawntae Spencer CB Pittsburgh San Francisco 49ers
59 Sean Jones SAF Georgia Cleveland Browns
65 Nate Kaeding K Iowa San Diego Chargers
75 Max Starks T Florida Pittsburgh Steelers


NOW not everyone on those later list would I have taken but there is some really good talent on those lists that could have been broncos.. and still be playing for us instead of being cut or traded away.

Yes ans I'd rather had Wilfork or Jackson in a heartbeat instead of DJ who has been dicked around in his time in DEN.. A great DT can make a lot of so so LB's and DB's look good.. As we NOW see..

We passed on alot of talent because we were focused in on getting certain positions filled.. or mikey was in love with who we drafted.. Never forget hearing him say that Nash was Mannings go to guy..
Ahahahaha

MOtorboat
10-06-2008, 06:36 PM
Ah yes...the "we coulda had..." argument...

Lonestar
10-06-2008, 06:36 PM
you usaly get one starter per draft people need to get a grip . you guys when knocking Shanahan always leave out some of Coachs gold mine players that he always seems to come up with in the RookieFA and RFA's just after the main season is over players that never played that year Bertran Berry and there are more. we as a team draft really good at TE's O line and really we are pretty darn good at drafting QB's

As a GM Coach is up and Down I think as of right now he is in full up swing .:beer:

most of those years we did not get a legit starter from the draft either in the first year or subsequent years..

Just because they started for us (foster a prime example ) does not mean they would be or are starters on any other teams..

Did oneal play well here? absolutely but for every great play he seemed to give up points or a key catch very shortly thereafter.. Inconsistent and the reason he no longer starts in CIN.

You do not draft for back ups on day one. if you are then you have one hell of a team..

Lonestar
10-06-2008, 06:47 PM
Ah yes...the "we coulda had..." argument...


Yes we could have but someone mikey or otherwise decided that these players were not as good as Watts, nash, foster, pierce, ashley middlebroken, oneal, toviessi, cole, reagor friedman, watson, mcgriff, dorsett davis. most of which did not play for beans here and if they did when they moved on they stunk up the place..

There are at least 10 players above that should never been day one picks over a 6 year period.. 10 wasted picked that could have been some one else and had they been perhaps 5 of them would still be on the squad had we have had a professional GM on staff..

Would it be nice to have 5 less holes to fill that past 3 years?.. Holes that we drafted 4-7 rounders to fill and hope they cut the mustard.. Speaking of which where is Chad these days?

Just admit that while mikey is a superb coach his personnel skills from 1998 through 2006 sucked.. One of the first things one must admit before they can grow, heal or move on is failure..

time to admit mikey is not the final solution..

MOtorboat
10-06-2008, 07:19 PM
Yes we could have but someone mikey or otherwise decided that these players were not as good as Watts, nash, foster, pierce, ashley middlebroken, oneal, toviessi, cole, reagor friedman, watson, mcgriff, dorsett davis. most of which did not play for beans here and if they did when they moved on they stunk up the place..

There are at least 10 players above that should never been day one picks over a 6 year period.. 10 wasted picked that could have been some one else and had they been perhaps 5 of them would still be on the squad had we have had a professional GM on staff..

Would it be nice to have 5 less holes to fill that past 3 years?.. Holes that we drafted 4-7 rounders to fill and hope they cut the mustard.. Speaking of which where is Chad these days?

Just admit that while mikey is a superb coach his personnel skills from 1998 through 2006 sucked.. One of the first things one must admit before they can grow, heal or move on is failure..

time to admit mikey is not the final solution..

Yeah, I know...I still can't figure out why we don't have Pro Bowlers at every position. :noidea:

Fan in Exile
10-06-2008, 08:50 PM
It's amazing watching people argue without any knowledge. The average draft yields about one starter per team, that's how much of a crap shoot it is.

Lonestar
10-07-2008, 12:09 AM
It's amazing watching people argue without any knowledge. The average draft yields about one starter per team, that's how much of a crap shoot it is.


yet everyone on here was extolling all of the holes we plugged with this last years draft..

Everyone thinking we fixed everything and we were super bowl bound..

We got a lot faster start than I thought we would .. But now the dings are taking a toll. now the DC's have seen a couple of game tapes and are going to start figuring out how to beat us..

Perhaps Y'all do not want to think that there are competent coaches out there besides mikey on both sides to the LOS..

Injuries are going to slow the momentum down.. and unless torain is the next TD well our running game is not going to take the load off of Jay..

If a team can't find at least 3 players that can stick and make a contribution each year.. AS you state then how is a team going to stock its line up..

Lets see apx 320 players taken and then there are another probably 150 UDFA on squads.

A team has 22 starters one per year from the draft that means if there are no injuries over the 22 years it takes to fill out a team we will be playing some really old players before they have to retire..

Most teams are going to come up with 4-5 players each year to fill those holes 1-2 each year as starters and then the others as back ups until the guy in front of them is to old to play or hurt..

This gives a turn over for starters at about 5 years.. Some like the OLINE and DLine will last longer.. but the average longevity in the NFL is about 4.5 years.. RB for less time because of the constant hitting they take..

If your team is only getting 1 player each year to start or even make the team your going to soon look like the Broncos did last year.. and how our Defense is this year..

Lonestar
10-07-2008, 12:11 AM
Yeah, I know...I still can't figure out why we don't have Pro Bowlers at every position. :noidea:

easy to say, scouting, GM and HC in this case..

Now perhaps the tide has turned but only time will tell..

LRtagger
10-07-2008, 08:27 AM
It's amazing watching people argue without any knowledge. The average draft yields about one starter per team, that's how much of a crap shoot it is.

So you are telling me that of the 250+ picks in each year's NFL draft, that only 32 players each year will ever be a starter in their entire career? I find that extremely hard to believe.

Now if you are saying that, on average, only one pick from each team will be a starter AS A ROOKIE, then I think that is probably pretty accurate.

But since nobody else in this thread has the knowledge that you have, please elighten us.

Fan in Exile
10-07-2008, 10:34 AM
yet everyone on here was extolling all of the holes we plugged with this last years draft..

Everyone thinking we fixed everything and we were super bowl bound..

We got a lot faster start than I thought we would .. But now the dings are taking a toll. now the DC's have seen a couple of game tapes and are going to start figuring out how to beat us..

Perhaps Y'all do not want to think that there are competent coaches out there besides mikey on both sides to the LOS..

Injuries are going to slow the momentum down.. and unless torain is the next TD well our running game is not going to take the load off of Jay..

If a team can't find at least 3 players that can stick and make a contribution each year.. AS you state then how is a team going to stock its line up..

Lets see apx 320 players taken and then there are another probably 150 UDFA on squads.

A team has 22 starters one per year from the draft that means if there are no injuries over the 22 years it takes to fill out a team we will be playing some really old players before they have to retire..

Most teams are going to come up with 4-5 players each year to fill those holes 1-2 each year as starters and then the others as back ups until the guy in front of them is to old to play or hurt..

This gives a turn over for starters at about 5 years.. Some like the OLINE and DLine will last longer.. but the average longevity in the NFL is about 4.5 years.. RB for less time because of the constant hitting they take..

If your team is only getting 1 player each year to start or even make the team your going to soon look like the Broncos did last year.. and how our Defense is this year..

This is prcisly what I'm talking about instead of trying to go find the numbers you're pulling them out of your ass.

You can't use the average longevity because it is thrown off by all of the people who get cut before they even see the field. What you would want to find is the average longevity for a person who actually makes it.

Besides the number that come from an average draft doesn't include UDFA, FA, or trades. Which gives you three other places that teams will find players.

Further more if you'll notice there are plenty of teams that are playing really old players. I mean for crying out loud Kerry Collins is playing. Brett Favre still has a place. Kickers play into their 40s.

If I find the link to the study I'll be happy to post it.

Keep in mind that's the average team as well. Some teams like the Lions will lose an entire draft class. Other teams will cut guys who are picked up by other teams, but they don't count because they don't become starters for the teams that drafted them.

Fan in Exile
10-07-2008, 10:37 AM
So you are telling me that of the 250+ picks in each year's NFL draft, that only 32 players each year will ever be a starter in their entire career? I find that extremely hard to believe.

Now if you are saying that, on average, only one pick from each team will be a starter AS A ROOKIE, then I think that is probably pretty accurate.

But since nobody else in this thread has the knowledge that you have, please elighten us.

If you'll notice Missouri also had the knowledge. There was a study done a while ago that covered this and if I find the link I'll post it for you.

Keep in mind that it's not just starting for one game but it's becoming the major starter for the team that drafted them at that position.

LRtagger
10-07-2008, 11:02 AM
If you'll notice Missouri also had the knowledge. There was a study done a while ago that covered this and if I find the link I'll post it for you.

Keep in mind that it's not just starting for one game but it's becoming the major starter for the team that drafted them at that position.


Yes please post the article, I would love to read it. :salute:

I know you mentioned trades and UFA pickups, but dont forget all/most of those players were drafted at some point.

I am just baffled that teams can have 7+ selections and only make one good choice. That doesn't bode well if our new philosophy is building through the draft.

Fan in Exile
10-07-2008, 12:29 PM
Yes please post the article, I would love to read it. :salute:

I know you mentioned trades and UFA pickups, but dont forget all/most of those players were drafted at some point.

I am just baffled that teams can have 7+ selections and only make one good choice. That doesn't bode well if our new philosophy is building through the draft.

To be fair if I'm remembering the article correctly I think it was about 1.4 starters per draft. However think about what that means. In a good year a team can expect to draft two starters maybe two back-ups/special teamers. Which makes up for the teams that only get back-ups or for down years, or for freak injuries. That's a pretty good draft.

I'm just happy Sundquist is gone and that now we have a shot at reaching something like that. Mikey should have fired him long ago.

Lonestar
10-07-2008, 01:33 PM
To be fair if I'm remembering the article correctly I think it was about 1.4 starters per draft. However think about what that means. In a good year a team can expect to draft two starters maybe two back-ups/special teamers. Which makes up for the teams that only get back-ups or for down years, or for freak injuries. That's a pretty good draft.

I'm just happy Sundquist is gone and that now we have a shot at reaching something like that. Mikey should have fired him long ago.

but in some cases only one if that stuck with the team more than a couple of years..

look at the class of 04 nothing left of it and frankly nothing should be cause it was stinker draft.. foster waht a joke as a OT can;t even hold the job on the Loins that is how far we had sunk, keeping him as an OT..

In everything else mikey does he excels why not the draft area? is it scouting, a pseudo GM or is it just plain bad judgment..

Please never tell anyone on here that Ted was making the choices all by himself...

Mikey approves of everything that happens on this team.. DO not be naive enough to think other wise..

Fan in Exile
10-07-2008, 02:20 PM
but in some cases only one if that stuck with the team more than a couple of years..

look at the class of 04 nothing left of it and frankly nothing should be cause it was stinker draft.. foster waht a joke as a OT can;t even hold the job on the Loins that is how far we had sunk, keeping him as an OT..

In everything else mikey does he excels why not the draft area? is it scouting, a pseudo GM or is it just plain bad judgment..

Please never tell anyone on here that Ted was making the choices all by himself...

Mikey approves of everything that happens on this team.. DO not be naive enough to think other wise..

As long as we are asking people to not do things. Please stop with all the DAFT talk it's really boring and derails otherwise good threads. At the same time I shouldn't be naive, don't you think that you know what goes on inside dove valley.

Lonestar
10-07-2008, 06:19 PM
As long as we are asking people to not do things. Please stop with all the DAFT talk it's really boring and derails otherwise good threads. At the same time I shouldn't be naive, don't you think that you know what goes on inside dove valley.

If you have not noticed over the past 13 years or so.. there is one mouth piece for the Broncos that is mikey.. Pat occasionally has comments, but staff wise mikey says it all.. at least everything I've been privy to.. This is also stating I may not hear it all because I do not see local DEN TV.. But what I see on NFL network or Bronco TV Mikey does the talking..

Pats comments after last season and before FA and the draft about we are going in a new direction building this team via the draft and staying away from past practices of spending lots of money on FA. said a mouthful to me that he was not happy how this team was headed..

IIRC That had never happened before Pat speaking about policy about player acquisitions

NOW adding all that up the subtle hint in there is do it my way and get results or your gone.. ..