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PAINTERDAVE
03-09-2011, 03:06 AM
From ESPN:http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest


Quote:
__________________________________________________ ________

Denver second-year quarterback Tim Tebow admitted that he hears the criticism about his play and the doubts that he will ever be an effective NFL starting quarterback.

"I think the politically correct answer would be that, no it doesn't affect me or I don't worry about it," Tebow said. "But that's absolutely 100-percent not true. It does affect me and because, honestly, deep down I'm kind of a people pleaser and I like making people smile. I like hanging out with people and having fun so, when you get people that talk bad about, even if it's how you play, I take it personal."

Say what you want about Tebow, but he plays with a purpose and serious fire. Perhaps it’s the criticism that lights him up.
__________________________________________________ _

claymore
03-09-2011, 03:11 AM
I hope I owe Tebow an apology some day.

dogfish
03-09-2011, 03:32 AM
QEjgPh4SEmU



:boxing: :boxing:

dogfish
03-09-2011, 03:32 AM
I hope I owe Tebow an apology some day.

you probably already do, just on general principles. . .



:elefant:

dogfish
03-09-2011, 03:38 AM
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9919/tebow.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/i/tebow.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Northman
03-09-2011, 04:49 AM
It wont matter until he tells us his arm is stronger than Elway's.

claymore
03-09-2011, 06:28 AM
you probably already do, just on general principles. . .



:elefant:

He is a nice kid. I hope he fails miserably, or Absolutley shines. I dont want to wallow in mediocraty for 3 years giving him time to develop.

SoCalImport
03-09-2011, 06:45 AM
He is a nice kid. I hope he fails miserably, or Absolutley shines. I dont want to wallow in mediocraty for 3 years giving him time to develop.

so would wallowing in medicrity for 2 years be ok? how about 1?

not necesarily a question directed at you, Clay. Just wondering where folks fall on this issue.
It's almost a given that we will wallow in mediocrity (or worse) for at least another year.

Shananahan
03-09-2011, 07:18 AM
I dont want to wallow in mediocraty for 3 years giving him time to develop.
You'd prefer to wallow in mediocrity for an indefinite number years looking for that elusive QB who is a superstar right out of the gate and absolutely shines in his first year without any learning curve. I get that.

claymore
03-09-2011, 07:41 AM
You'd prefer to wallow in mediocrity for an indefinite number years looking for that elusive QB who is a superstar right out of the gate and absolutely shines in his first year without any learning curve. I get that.

Id rather waste as little time as possible on Tebow. If we are going to spend decades looking for the right guy, id rather start right away.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 07:53 AM
Its rediculous, the kid has never had a bad game in his life and yet somehow is the most critisized and questioned player on the planet. "experts" talk worse about TT than they do Jamarcus Russell.

He hardly played as a rook and still had 11 TDs and only 3 TO.
whats it going to take for TT to be considered a success?

Im going to step up and predict some numbers for 2011 assuming he gets the nod.

3500 yards passing 28 TDs 12 picks- 850 yards rushing 14 TDs 2 fumbles

I may be crazy, but it might just be a lunatic your lookig for!
If you think im a crazy homer just remember you heard it here first. shit he might do better.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-09-2011, 08:12 AM
Its rediculous, the kid has never had a bad game in his life and yet somehow is the most critisized and questioned player on the planet. "experts" talk worse about TT than they do Jamarcus Russell.

He hardly played as a rook and still had 11 TDs and only 3 TO.
whats it going to take for TT to be considered a success?

Im going to step up and predict some numbers for 2011 assuming he gets the nod.

3500 yards passing 28 TDs 12 picks- 850 yards rushing 14 TDs 2 fumbles

I may be crazy, but it might just be a lunatic your lookig for!
If you think im a crazy homer just remember you heard it here first. shit he might do better.

The numbers you have listed there are college numbers for a guy like Tebow where he could easily run up the score on the Vanderbilts and Troys of the world. It's unrealistic to think that a pro QB could put up numbers like that against pro defenses. Orton threw the ball nearly 50 times a game, never ran, and had what, 3700 yards and 20 TDs passing? Your numbers are waayyyy out there.

I doubt even Tebow would be able to put up numbers like that, even if he got to call the plays and called his own number every time. He definitely won't get numbers like that in John Fox's offense. We're going to run the ball - a lot. Say 2500 yards passing, 400-500 rushing and 28 TOTAL TDs (14 rushing) and I'd say you were on the mark.

Nobody is going to be calling design draws for Tebow all day if he's the starter so his rushing numbers will come completely from scrambling (like in the Houston and SD game as opposed to the Oakland game). If he's running when he's supposed to pass, his passing stats drop. 28 passing TDs is a lot for anybody not named Manning or Brady. If Tebow throws for 28 and runs for 14, we'd easily have the highest scoring offense in the league when you throw in the rushing TDs scored by RBs.

Tebow's rushing TDs, just like his rushing yardage, will come from scrambling, not design QB draws so every TD he scores with his legs will be one less with his arm. I know Tebow, especially inside the redzone, likes to just run it in himself if the throw is not there, that's why it being close to even in rushing/passing TDs. 28 total, 14 a piece.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 08:29 AM
The numbers you have listed there are college numbers for a guy like Tebow where he could easily run up the score on the Vanderbilts and Troys of the world. It's unrealistic to think that a pro QB could put up numbers like that against pro defenses. Orton threw the ball nearly 50 times a game, never ran, and had what, 3700 yards and 20 TDs passing? Your numbers are waayyyy out there.

I doubt even Tebow would be able to put up numbers like that, even if he got to call the plays and called his own number every time. He definitely won't get numbers like that in John Fox's offense. We're going to run the ball - a lot. Say 2500 yards passing, 400-500 rushing and 28 TOTAL TDs (14 rushing) and I'd say you were on the mark.

Nobody is going to be calling design draws for Tebow all day if he's the starter so his rushing numbers will come completely from scrambling (like in the Houston and SD game as opposed to the Oakland game). If he's running when he's supposed to pass, his passing stats drop. 28 passing TDs is a lot for anybody not named Manning or Brady. If Tebow throws for 28 and runs for 14, we'd easily have the highest scoring offense in the league when you throw in the rushing TDs scored by RBs.

Tebow's rushing TDs, just like his rushing yardage, will come from scrambling, not design QB draws so every TD he scores with his legs will be one less with his arm. I know Tebow, especially inside the redzone, likes to just run it in himself if the throw is not there, that's why it being close to even in rushing/passing TDs. 28 total, 14 a piece.

but wait a second... TT did put up those kind of numbers when given the oppertunity already

I see your point about John Fox offense but i think it will open TTs passing game with all the play action. ill stick with my out there stats although i understand they are way out there.

i think we will all be pleasently suprised at what Teebs will do

PAINTERDAVE
03-09-2011, 12:12 PM
but wait a second... TT did put up those kind of numbers when given the oppertunity already

I see your point about John Fox offense but i think it will open TTs passing game with all the play action. ill stick with my out there stats although i understand they are way out there.

i think we will all be pleasently suprised at what Teebs will do

At this point... I think SOME will be surprised..
and others may even be disapointed.

I think his detractors will be surprised...pleasantly...
and those who think he walks on water may be dissapointed.

Like Clay said... I am eager to find out ...
THIS SEASON.

It certainly makes no sense to put off his development.

As I see it... THIS is our rebuilding year...
I expect the Broncos to be competitive in 2012.

Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 12:45 PM
Its rediculous, the kid has never had a bad game in his life ...

See. This completely takes away from ANY credibility you may have offered because it's a waste of time to read any further than this opening sentence.

Thats a ridiculously over-exaggerated statement, that it can't be taken seriously.

vandammage13
03-09-2011, 01:02 PM
See. This completely takes away from ANY credibility you may have offered because it's a waste of time to read any further than this opening sentence.

Thats a ridiculously over-exaggerated statement, that it can't be taken seriously.

To be fair, Bullgator's not really wrong here....Tebow really hasn't had a Bad game. It's not an over-exaggerated statement. Tebow had games in college where he didn't put up his usual astronomical numbers, but he never really had an outright bad one. In the NFL, there's not really a large sample to pull from (just 3 games), but I don't think you could really catogorize any of the ones he's played in thus far as "bad", either.

So, yeah, Bullgator is probably not the most impartial person to get an opinion of Tebow from, but he's really not that far off base here if you actually take the time to step back and look at Tebow's performances.

Feel free to prove me wrong, but I challenge you to go back to Tebow's college career and find an outright "bad" game he had. You might be able to find some pedestrian/average performances, but I doubt you will discover a bad one. Take the time to check it out, you might be surprised.

arapaho2
03-09-2011, 01:16 PM
what i take from clays thoughts is correct

tebow should be judged this season

we should be able to see the great...even if the stats cloud the view
im not high on projected stats, but if we project tebow stats over a full season based upon his initial 3 games it would come out like this

217 ypg....3472 yards...1.3 tds pg...21tds....16 ints

now compare that to elways rookie season projected over a full season
151ypg.....2418yards.... .63 tds pg...10tds...19 ints

but what we seen in elway was fire...leadership...the skillset...the mobility...the arm and the high ceiling...we seen a franchise qb despite the stats clouding the view

we should tell within the season whether tebow is the future,,,despite the stats or record ...if not, move on quickly, dont settle on a average qb waiting for him to improve

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 01:28 PM
To be fair, Bullgator's not really wrong here....Tebow really hasn't had a Bad game. It's not an over-exaggerated statement. Tebow had games in college where he didn't put up his usual astronomical numbers, but he never really had an outright bad one. In the NFL, there's not really a large sample to pull from (just 3 games), but I don't think you could really catogorize any of the ones he's played in thus far as "bad", either.

So, yeah, Bullgator is probably not the most impartial person to get an opinion of Tebow from, but he's really not that far off base here if you actually take the time to step back and look at Tebow's performances.

Feel free to prove me wrong, but I challenge you to go back to Tebow's college career and find an outright "bad" game he had. You might be able to find some pedestrian/average performances, but I doubt you will discover a bad one. Take the time to check it out, you might be surprised.

He said" in his life"!
1. If he knows this for a fact, he REALLY needs a life of his own.
2. I consider rav's point more likely.
3. I bet TT would disagree as well.

Sometimes homerism knows no bounds.
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vandammage13
03-09-2011, 01:35 PM
He said" in his life"!
1. If he knows this for a fact, he REALLY needs a life of his own.
2. I consider rav's point more likely.
3. I bet TT would disagree as well.

Sometimes homerism knows no bounds.
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Yeah I guess "life" could be a stretch if you don't take it as a relative term and want to include Pop Warner and HS games.

As far as games in his life that were able to be viewed/evaluated by the general public (Televised on the NCAA/NFL level), he hasn't really had one that can be categorized as bad.

But yeah, its quite possible he had a couple of bad ones on the Pop Warner level (even though elite athletes good enough to go on to the NFL usually dominate even more at the HS/Pop Warner level), but I don't think most people would project how he's going to be in the NFL based on what he did when he was 12.

shank
03-09-2011, 02:28 PM
but what we seen in elway was fire...leadership...the skillset...the mobility...the arm and the high ceiling...we seen a franchise qb despite the stats clouding the view


i don't know about you, but i already saw all these attributes in tebow's first three starts.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 02:45 PM
i don't know about you, but i already saw all these attributes in tebow's first three starts.

I saw a 1-3 record, since reasoning isn't being allowed.
That equates to another 4-12 record.

"But at least he's mobile"
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vandammage13
03-09-2011, 02:48 PM
I saw a 1-3 record, since reasoning isn't being allowed.
That equates to another 4-12 record.

"But at least he's mobile"
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Now, now...don't try to pin one of Orton's losses on Tebow to strengthen your argument

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 02:52 PM
Now, now monkey boy...don't try to pin one of Orton's losses on Tebow to strengthen your argument

My bad.
5-10
With him missing a game with sore ribs
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vandammage13
03-09-2011, 03:21 PM
My bad.
5-10
With him missing a game with sore ribs
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You do realize Elway was 4-7 his first year in the league, don't you? The Broncos were actually undefeated in 1983 in games Elway did not play.

He had a 47.5 completion % that year with 7 Tds and 14 Ints. He wasn't playing well, and frankly, Tebow played better in his first three games than Elway did.

Sometimes you can just tell someone is going to be great before it actually translates to success on the field. Elway had those qualities that you could see, and Tebow seems as though he may as well. Orton clearly does not.

shank
03-09-2011, 03:24 PM
I saw a 1-3 record, since reasoning isn't being allowed.
That equates to another 4-12 record.

"But at least he's mobile"
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that's the beauty of team sports; one player is responsible for winning and losing games.

wait one second... someone just tapped me on the shoulder and told me i've made a grave fundamental error in my reasoning.

MacGruder
03-09-2011, 03:32 PM
Id rather waste as little time as possible on Tebow. If we are going to spend decades looking for the right guy, id rather start right away.

When you factor everything in Tebow has as good a chance to be successful in the NFL as any QB prospect ever.

Sure there are guys that have had better QB measurables.. but few have ever had many of the attributes Tebow does either.

That perfect Qb prospect with the perfect throwing motion could be an INT machine or prone to injury or mess up off the field.

Bottom line is it's best to not look a gift horse in the mouth. Tebow is as good as anyone. He's only knocked because he is so unique and because sports people are so small minded.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 03:48 PM
You do realize Elway was 4-7 his first year in the league, don't you? The Broncos were actually undefeated in 1983 in games Elway did not play.

He had a 47.5 completion % that year with 7 Tds and 14 Ints. He wasn't playing well, and frankly, Tebow played better in his first three games than Elway did.

Sometimes you can just tell someone is going to be great before it actually translates to success on the field. Elway had those qualities that you could see, and Tebow seems as though he may as well. Orton clearly does not.

Great. Now 3gms shows that TT is going to be as goood/better than elway.

:tsk:
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 03:49 PM
that's the beauty of team sports; one player is responsible for winning and losing games.

wait one second... someone just tapped me on the shoulder and told me i've made a grave fundamental error in my reasoning.
Meaning what, you actually read what I typed? Lol
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 03:50 PM
When you factor everything in Tebow has as good a chance to be successful in the NFL as any QB prospect ever.

Sure there are guys that have had better QB measurables.. but few have ever had many of the attributes Tebow does either.

That perfect Qb prospect with the perfect throwing motion could be an INT machine or prone to injury or mess up off the field.

Bottom line is it's best to not look a gift horse in the mouth. Tebow is as good as anyone. He's only knocked because he is so unique and because sports people are so small minded.

So since newton is a better athlete, denver better grab him up?
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Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 03:51 PM
When you factor everything in Tebow has as good a chance to be successful in the NFL as any QB prospect ever.

Sure there are guys that have had better QB measurables.. but few have ever had many of the attributes Tebow does either.

That perfect Qb prospect with the perfect throwing motion could be an INT machine or prone to injury or mess up off the field.

Bottom line is it's best to not look a gift horse in the mouth. Tebow is as good as anyone. He's only knocked because he is so unique and because sports people are so small minded.

Wait... unique how?

The only reason he's knocked is because people are small minded? Really? Thats the best you have?

I'm hoping for the best with Tebow, but after watching him throw in those three games, I'm VERY skeptical that he'll ever be the QB we need in the NFL. You have to be a damned good PASSER in the NFL, and Tebow is not a good passer.

There is a reason that he couldn't beat out Orton as the starter, and there is a REASON that Elway has his concerns about the rawness of Tebow. There are reasons that people didn't even have Tebow as the best 2-3 QBs in his own draft, and why guys like Luck are considered to be once-in-a-generation type of QBs, and it has NOTHING to do with "throwing motion."

There are reasons that guys like Dilfer will say that Luck is the "best he's ever seen" when Tebow was a question mark as to whether or not he'll ever be a good NFL QB... and its not just the way THEY throw the ball (after all, Rivers has a terrible delivery and was rated as a #1 overall pick).

It seems to me, that the small minds are those that don't think there is anything wrong with Tebow's game and aren't willing to accept his shortcomings as REAL. Its as if everythign is perfect and anything negative is purely mythical.

dogfish
03-09-2011, 04:09 PM
some of you saw enough in three games to determine that tebow is a potential franchise quarterback. . .

rav saw enough to know that tebow can't throw. . .


the truth is that you probably all saw what you were predisposed to see-- only explanation for such divergent results. . .

;)

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 04:10 PM
Wait... unique how?

The only reason he's knocked is because people are small minded? Really? Thats the best you have?

I'm hoping for the best with Tebow, but after watching him throw in those three games, I'm VERY skeptical that he'll ever be the QB we need in the NFL. You have to be a damned good PASSER in the NFL, and Tebow is not a good passer.

There is a reason that he couldn't beat out Orton as the starter, and there is a REASON that Elway has his concerns about the rawness of Tebow. There are reasons that people didn't even have Tebow as the best 2-3 QBs in his own draft, and why guys like Luck are considered to be once-in-a-generation type of QBs, and it has NOTHING to do with "throwing motion."

There are reasons that guys like Dilfer will say that Luck is the "best he's ever seen" when Tebow was a question mark as to whether or not he'll ever be a good NFL QB... and its not just the way THEY throw the ball (after all, Rivers has a terrible delivery and was rated as a #1 overall pick).

It seems to me, that the small minds are those that don't think there is anything wrong with Tebow's game and aren't willing to accept his shortcomings as REAL. Its as if everythign is perfect and anything negative is purely mythical.
:hi5:
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MacGruder
03-09-2011, 04:12 PM
So since newton is a better athlete, denver better grab him up?
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How the heck did you get that from what I just wrote? You could say they are both great QB prospects.. why swap one for another? Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. But both have limitless potential as well. Tebow actually showed to be a better athlete at the combine than Newton and has a much better resume.

G_Money
03-09-2011, 04:13 PM
Drew Brees: 2nd round pick. Why?

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2001/profile/drew_brees.html


ANALYSIS
Positives... Touch passer with the ability to read and diagnose defensive coverages...Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle...Very tough and mobile moving around in the pocket...Has a quick setup and is very effective throwing on the move...Throws across his body with great consistency...Hits receivers in stride and improvises his throws in order to make a completion...Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes...Shows good judgement and keen field vision...Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure...Hits receivers in motion with impressive velocity...Has superb pocket presence and uses all of his offensive weapons in order to move the chains...Has solid body mechanics and quickness moving away from center... Elusive scrambler with the body control to avoid the rush.

Negatives... Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun... Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws... Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment.

Any of those negatives sound familiar? For guys with very different body types they had very similar flaws coming into this league.

Completion %:
Year 1: 60.8
Year 2: 57.6 (uh oh, better draft Rivers...)
Year 3+: never under 64%.

I don't know what Tebow's gonna be as a pro QB. The likelihood is he starts off more Vince Young than Drew Brees - but all Young ever did was win. He had the practice habits of a boozer on a three week bender and the maturity of a wet apricot, but he still won even with mediocre-or-worse QB stats.

Brees didn't win jack his first couple of seasons either, and the Chargers gave up on him to find their QB of the Future. And they found him. And they still haven't won anything, while Brees has a shiny ring and the devotion of a city and a nation.

Tim ABSOLUTELY has things to work on. He'd be the first to tell you that what he is now is not what he'll be next year or the year after that. He's a work in progress. Unlike Vince Young he has a burning desire to improve.

Step one is to identify his weaknesses. Step two is to minimize them. Step three is to get out of his way and let him make something happen.

"Making something happen" is what got Grand Master Elway to 5 Super Bowls, two rings, and a silly looking jacket from the Hall of Fame.

Tebow has the magic leadership and improvisation qualities that even the most talented QBs don't necessarily have. Will he have the magic I-can-complete-this-pass or I-can-read-this-defense qualities? I dunno.

But I want to find out. Brister, Griese, Plummer, Cutler AND Orton all lacked that leadership thing, so Tebow is one-up on all our post-Elway attempts so far in that regard.

Tebow takes all criticism as positive fuel. If he fails, it won't be for lack of effort.

And I'm willing to spend a couple of seasons figuring out if he can succeed. He might get no off-season this year to work on it with his coaches, and if so make that 3 seasons unless he just falls off a cliff.

Tebow's gonna have to earn his shot, but I think he will. And once he does, let the kid play. We'll never know what he can be any other way.

~G

MacGruder
03-09-2011, 04:18 PM
Wait... unique how?

The only reason he's knocked is because people are small minded? Really? Thats the best you have?

I'm hoping for the best with Tebow, but after watching him throw in those three games, I'm VERY skeptical that he'll ever be the QB we need in the NFL. You have to be a damned good PASSER in the NFL, and Tebow is not a good passer.

There is a reason that he couldn't beat out Orton as the starter, and there is a REASON that Elway has his concerns about the rawness of Tebow. There are reasons that people didn't even have Tebow as the best 2-3 QBs in his own draft, and why guys like Luck are considered to be once-in-a-generation type of QBs, and it has NOTHING to do with "throwing motion."

There are reasons that guys like Dilfer will say that Luck is the "best he's ever seen" when Tebow was a question mark as to whether or not he'll ever be a good NFL QB... and its not just the way THEY throw the ball (after all, Rivers has a terrible delivery and was rated as a #1 overall pick).

It seems to me, that the small minds are those that don't think there is anything wrong with Tebow's game and aren't willing to accept his shortcomings as REAL. Its as if everythign is perfect and anything negative is purely mythical.

Jake Locker was raved about more than Luck now is falling through the draft..

Tebow had the best first 3 games of any rookie QB last season.. he did that with his pasisng.. He LOOKS raw more than he actually is..

Conversely other guys like Newton and Luck LOOK like great Qbs yet when they get on the field what is the reality? None of them has proved themselves as a passer as Tebow did against the best defenses. If Luck wants that kind of recognition he should play the best. If Luck had to run so much against PAC10 defenses why should we think he would fare well against SEC D?

And Tebow is unique because he plays the game like no one before him. This is why small minded NFL people are so skeptical.. they have no one to compare him to so assume he can't be successful.

They said the same thing when h entered he SEC and was more successful than anyone predicted..

SR
03-09-2011, 04:27 PM
Its rediculous, the kid has never had a bad game in his life and yet somehow is the most critisized and questioned player on the planet. "experts" talk worse about TT than they do Jamarcus Russell.

He hardly played as a rook and still had 11 TDs and only 3 TO.
whats it going to take for TT to be considered a success?

Im going to step up and predict some numbers for 2011 assuming he gets the nod.

3500 yards passing 28 TDs 12 picks- 850 yards rushing 14 TDs 2 fumbles

I may be crazy, but it might just be a lunatic your lookig for!
If you think im a crazy homer just remember you heard it here first. shit he might do better.


You're high.

SR
03-09-2011, 04:32 PM
I saw a 1-3 record, since reasoning isn't being allowed.
That equates to another 4-12 record.

"But at least he's mobile"
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A 1-2 record would be accurate.

G_Money
03-09-2011, 04:43 PM
If Tebow gets 850 yards rushing we're playing flag football this season. Ugh.

Still, watching him bowl over people for 40+ yard rushing TDs I get the reasoning. There's just no way he throws for 3500 yards AND gets 800 rushing.

Vince Young once did 2500 passing / 400 rushing. He's nowhere near those figures

Randall Cunningham did it once, in 1990: 3450 passing, 950 rushing. What an amazing year that was.

Vick passed for 3000 and rushed for 650 this past season, and almost won the MVP. If he had played all the games he'd have made those numbers...but with 21 TD in the air and 9 on the ground he wasn't getting close to 42 TDs.

Tebow doesn't run like either Vick or Cunningham. He's not fleet-like-deer, he's strong-like-bull.

If he could do 3000 / 500 I'd be pretty stoked, especially if we had a running game to boot. He's gonna run to start his career, I get that. I still need to see some passing progress. Of course we'd have to call passing plays first...

42 TDs though? I love the offseason of optimism. :)

~G

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 04:48 PM
You're high.
:hi5:
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 04:49 PM
A 1-2 record would be accurate.
Yep...already corrected, boss. :/))
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Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 04:55 PM
Jake Locker was raved about more than Luck now is falling through the draft..
This is just wrong from the get-go. Luck was by FAR the QB that was raved about to the point that the Carolina Panthers already said they would take him as their #1 overall pick before Luck made his decision on declaring for the NFL or not.


Tebow had the best first 3 games of any rookie QB last season
Nope


He LOOKS raw more than he actually is..
:lol: Says you? :lol:


Conversely other guys like Newton and Luck LOOK like great Qbs yet when they get on the field what is the reality? None of them has proved themselves as a passer as Tebow did against the best defenses. If Luck wants that kind of recognition he should play the best. If Luck had to run so much against PAC10 defenses why should we think he would fare well against SEC D?

You just need to stop because you are embarrassing yourself.

When Luck is on the field, the reality is that he is great. Which is why MOST of the people giving out scouting reports on him, say that he's the best they've seen SINCE ELway.

Luck already got the recognition, so I don't know what kind of recognition you think he "wants." People (scouts, pro's, college coaches, GMs ) don't say that he's the best they've seen in 25 years based on records.


And Tebow is unique because he plays the game like no one before him. This is why small minded NFL people are so skeptical.. they have no one to compare him to so assume he can't be successful.
What are you talking about? What does he do that's unique? He isn't as good of a runner as Vick. He's not as good of a passer as Vince Young. He's not of a good passer as Cunningham, nor is he as good of a runner as Cunningham. Tebow certainly isn't the passer that new guys like Ryan and Bradford are.

His play style is NOT unique, and they (scouts, pro's, coaches, GMs) aren't skeptical of Tebow's play because he's doing something they've never seen before. Quite the opposite. They've seen it before. Great success in college by running the ball, not having a knowledge of reading defenses, and putting up numbers by playing in a all-shotgun, spread offense. This is nothing new.

Seriously dude, you are making yourself look silly by saying everyone that disagrees with you (and all those that actually know what they are talking about) are small minded because they aren't blinded by the 'love' for a player.

I haven't said that I want Tebow to fail. I don't. I haven't even said I think he will be a failure. I've said that as of right now, he looks more 'raw' than I had expected him to be and saw things that make me DOUBT that he will ever be the passing QB we need in this league. He's not a good passer, and absolutely can see why Elway has his reservations on him. As much as I hate McDooshbag, I can see why a coach that spent so many picks to take him, would be hesitant to put him in the line of fire for too long.

vandammage13
03-09-2011, 05:03 PM
Great. Now 3gms shows that TT is going to be as goood/better than elway.

:tsk:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

No, there is no way you can know for sure just based on 3 games. But what in those three games did he show you that makes you think he will fail? I saw way more upside than downside in those three games.

I saw a guy step in with next to no preperation during the season as it turns out, playing for an interim HC and a first time OC and fair pretty well.

So his throwing motion looks a little goofy and is quite different than what you are used to seeing. I don't remember one play where that really hampered us.

You think he needs to learn how to read defenses? Sure he does. I think that goes for all QBs coming into the league though. Even though he supposedly can't read defenses, he still had a 300 yard game and played pretty well in the other two.

What rookie is perfect coming out? They all have things to work on. I saw no evidence in those games where you can come to a conclusion that he will suck. I walked away from watching those three games coming to the conclusion that he has a chance to be good.

Only time will tell, but based on what has been displayed on the field, there is more evidence to suggest he has potential than to definitively say he won't make it.

Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 05:15 PM
some of you saw enough in three games to determine that tebow is a potential franchise quarterback. . .

rav saw enough to know that tebow can't throw. . .


the truth is that you probably all saw what you were predisposed to see-- only explanation for such divergent results. . .

;)

dog.. I never said he can't throw. I said I saw enough to make me DOUBT that he'll be the passing QB we need in the NFL. Huge difference.

vandammage13
03-09-2011, 05:20 PM
dog.. I never said he can't throw. I said I saw enough to make me DOUBT that he'll be the passing QB we need in the NFL. Huge difference.

There is a difference, but I wouldn't exactly call it "huge."

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 05:21 PM
This is just wrong from the get-go. Luck was by FAR the QB that was raved about to the point that the Carolina Panthers already said they would take him as their #1 overall pick before Luck made his decision on declaring for the NFL or not.


Nope


:lol: Says you? :lol:



You just need to stop because you are embarrassing yourself.

When Luck is on the field, the reality is that he is great. Which is why MOST of the people giving out scouting reports on him, say that he's the best they've seen SINCE ELway.

Luck already got the recognition, so I don't know what kind of recognition you think he "wants." People (scouts, pro's, college coaches, GMs ) don't say that he's the best they've seen in 25 years based on records.


What are you talking about? What does he do that's unique? He isn't as good of a runner as Vick. He's not as good of a passer as Vince Young. He's not of a good passer as Cunningham, nor is he as good of a runner as Cunningham. Tebow certainly isn't the passer that new guys like Ryan and Bradford are.

His play style is NOT unique, and they (scouts, pro's, coaches, GMs) aren't skeptical of Tebow's play because he's doing something they've never seen before. Quite the opposite. They've seen it before. Great success in college by running the ball, not having a knowledge of reading defenses, and putting up numbers by playing in a all-shotgun, spread offense. This is nothing new.

Seriously dude, you are making yourself look silly by saying everyone that disagrees with you (and all those that actually know what they are talking about) are small minded because they aren't blinded by the 'love' for a player.

I haven't said that I want Tebow to fail. I don't. I haven't even said I think he will be a failure. I've said that as of right now, he looks more 'raw' than I had expected him to be and saw things that make me DOUBT that he will ever be the passing QB we need in this league. He's not a good passer, and absolutely can see why Elway has his reservations on him. As much as I hate McDooshbag, I can see why a coach that spent so many picks to take him, would be hesitant to put him in the line of fire for too long.

Ravage, RC... doods get your jabs in now cuz your time is comming to an end.

8 days from now CBA will be signed, shortly after that KO is gone and next year TT is going to blow up the NFL like nothing you have ever seen.

IF Tebow gets numbers like I boldly predicted when I was high, even the most avid haters are gona have to bow down or bow out. Those numbers are higher than even the most optimistic TT fan has... but I have my reasons to beleive they will come to pass and im willing to take the flak now and cash it in later for my **** of the walk badge. Right now i look like this :elefant: when TT tramples the NFL and they ban him for illegal use of awsome ill look like this :cool: and you my freind with be :mad:

Ravage as far as your ability to judge a "good passer" I have less confidence in your "expertise" than you do in my predictions.

You guys just remember what Crazy ol' Bullgator is incoherently babling.

Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 05:25 PM
There is a difference, but I wouldn't exactly call it "huge."

From not being able to pass at all and to doubting he'll be the passer we need in the NFL???? Thats a HUGE difference.

But nice try on the nitpicking...even though you failed. :beer:

Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 05:29 PM
Ravage, RC... doods get your jabs in now cuz your time is comming to an end.

8 days from now CBA will be signed, shortly after that KO is gone and next year TT is going to blow up the NFL like nothing you have ever seen.

IF Tebow gets numbers like I boldly predicted when I was high, even the most avid haters are gona have to bow down or bow out. Those numbers are higher than even the most optimistic TT fan has... but I have my reasons to beleive they will come to pass and im willing to take the flak now and cash it in later for my **** of the walk badge. Right now i look like this :elefant: when TT tramples the NFL and they ban him for illegal use of awsome ill look like this :cool: and you my freind with be :mad:

Ravage as far as your ability to judge a "good passer" I have less confidence in your "expertise" than you do in my predictions.

You guys just remember what Crazy ol' Bullgator is incoherently babling.

Doooooood. For one, you've been a Bronco fan for 10 days. Don't come to me with this "bow out" crud. How about this. If Tebow only gets 50% of what you predict, you crawl back home and into your swamp? Its not a wager if you aren't willing to put something on the line, right? Bow down or bow out?

Other than that..... I'll be sure to remember this post. I have Noooooo problem with that.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 05:38 PM
Doooooood. For one, you've been a Bronco fan for 10 days. Don't come to me with this "bow out" crud. How about this. If Tebow only gets 50% of what you predict, you crawl back home and into your swamp? Its not a wager if you aren't willing to put something on the line, right? Bow down or bow out?

Other than that..... I'll be sure to remember this post. I have Noooooo problem with that.

I never left the swamp silly nips.

BUT if he sucks and I eat crow Ill stick around and take my lumps. Despite being a HORRIBLE winner I can be a pretty humble loser.

When Teebz takes us to the playoffs on his back and puts up some crazy numbers I want you to do the same.

THE FRST thing you have to do is admit you dont know shit about evaluating a QB.

vandammage13
03-09-2011, 05:39 PM
From not being able to pass at all and to doubting he'll be the passer we need in the NFL???? Thats a HUGE difference.

But nice try on the nitpicking...even though you failed. :beer:

If he can't be the passer we need in the NFL, then he might as well not be able to pass at all. What use do you have for someone who can't pass in the NFL? Both are an equal indictment that he can't be a QB in the NFL, so in that sense its not really nitpicking.

Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 05:41 PM
If he can't be the passer we need in the NFL, then he might as well not be able to pass at all. What use do you have for someone who can't pass in the NFL? Both are an equal indictment that he can't be a QB in the NFL, so in that sense its not really nitpicking.

Again vanda.. doing your best to find a way to criticize and correct purely for the purpose of correcting. Its a long path you've taken here to suggest that it the same thing as saying he can't pass to saying that I DOUBT he can be the passing QB we need. Yet you continue to stretch your logic to fit your mind-hole so that you can feel confident that you corrected with a reasoning purpose. When in fact, you are doing nothing more than nitpicking for the sake that it makes you feel superior.

Good luck with that. :beer:

Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 05:44 PM
I never left the swamp silly nips.

BUT if he sucks and I eat crow Ill stick around and take my lumps. Despite being a HORRIBLE winner I can be a pretty humble loser.

When Teebz takes us to the playoffs on his back and puts up some crazy numbers I want you to do the same.

THE FRST thing you have to do is admit you dont know shit about evaluating a QB.

No nono... you are putting to much ambiguity into your parameters. Whats "sucking?" Thats obviously a matter of perception, and I don't think Tebow is going to "suck" which is why I put the solid 50% of your prediction on the table.

This gives you a way of not having to slither away if he hits 51%, but still doesn't give you much room to throw out the over-the-top Tebow hype.

SR
03-09-2011, 05:44 PM
I never left the swamp silly nips.

BUT if he sucks and I eat crow Ill stick around and take my lumps. Despite being a HORRIBLE winner I can be a pretty humble loser.

When Teebz takes us to the playoffs on his back and puts up some crazy numbers I want you to do the same.

THE FRST thing you have to do is admit you dont know shit about evaluating a QB.

Is it bad that I want Tebow to fail just so you'll shut up?

vandammage13
03-09-2011, 05:45 PM
Again vanda.. doing your best to find a way to criticize and correct purely for the purpose of correcting. Its a long path you've taken here to suggest that it the same thing as saying he can't pass to saying that I DOUBT he can be the passing QB we need. Yet you continue to stretch your logic to fit your mind-hole so that you can feel confident that you corrected with a reasoning purpose. When in fact, you are doing nothing more than nitpicking for the sake that it makes you feel superior.

Good luck with that. :beer:

No superiority complex here...I just didn't think the two thoughts were ultimately all that different. Take it how you wish.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 05:48 PM
Again vanda.. doing your best to find a way to criticize and correct purely for the purpose of correcting. Its a long path you've taken here to suggest that it the same thing as saying he can't pass to saying that I DOUBT he can be the passing QB we need. Yet you continue to stretch your logic to fit your mind-hole so that you can feel confident that you corrected with a reasoning purpose. When in fact, you are doing nothing more than nitpicking for the sake that it makes you feel superior.

Good luck with that. :beer:

wha- whaaat?

what the hell is the difference between DOUBT he can and thinking he cant? its the same. This isnt OJ trail here Johnny C. There is no prison term in it for you. admit it man you think TT is a busta. every post you have is to that effect just like all of mine are about what a golden goose he is.

The point is you dont think TT can play the position Rav... Only a yes or no please...

Let the jury note that Rav has answered NO that he beleives that TT cannot play QB in this league.

No further Questions :coffee:

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 05:53 PM
No, there is no way you can know for sure just based on 3 games. But what in those three games did he show you that makes you think he will fail? I saw way more upside than downside in those three games.

I saw a guy step in with next to no preperation during the season as it turns out, playing for an interim HC and a first time OC and fair pretty well.

So his throwing motion looks a little goofy and is quite different than what you are used to seeing. I don't remember one play where that really hampered us.

You think he needs to learn how to read defenses? Sure he does. I think that goes for all QBs coming into the league though. Even though he supposedly can't read defenses, he still had a 300 yard game and played pretty well in the other two.

What rookie is perfect coming out? They all have things to work on. I saw no evidence in those games where you can come to a conclusion that he will suck. I walked away from watching those three games coming to the conclusion that he has a chance to be good.

Only time will tell, but based on what has been displayed on the field, there is more evidence to suggest he has potential than to definitively say he won't make it.
Lol
You might ask TT if he needs an autobiographer.
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Bullgator
03-09-2011, 05:55 PM
Is it bad that I want Tebow to fail just so you'll shut up?

No Red, its not bad its only natural for the forces of darkness to playahate. :D

shank
03-09-2011, 05:56 PM
Lol
You might ask TT if he needs an autobiographer.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

everyone has an autobiographer.

MacGruder
03-09-2011, 05:58 PM
This is just wrong from the get-go. Luck was by FAR the QB that was raved about to the point that the Carolina Panthers already said they would take him as their #1 overall pick before Luck made his decision on declaring for the NFL or not.

They were saying th same thing about Locker at one time.. when his team was playing well and beat USC. Locker was raved about more and longer than Luck. Luck only surfaced when Locker fell to Earth. The same is likely to happen to Luck. Just like with Tebow. You stay in school long enough and people are going to see your warts no matter who you are. Though guys like Luck and Locker have a huge advantage because they play such weak teams and D in the PAC10 compared to Tebow in the SEC. That is EXACTLY how Ryan Leaf got rated higher than Peyton Manning.


Quote:
Tebow had the best first 3 games of any rookie QB last season

Nope

Yes he did look at the numbers. Tebow had the best preseason of any of the rookie QBs too. Only thing that kept Tebow from playing was McD raising Orton's level of play so high last season. Which is why McD is coaching the second best QB in last seasons draft after Tebow.


Quote:
He LOOKS raw more than he actually is..

Says you?

Yes.. people in the NFL care more about how someone looks than how they actually play. How else does Cam Newton get rated over Tebow? Again.. these people know just enough to be dangerous. Tebow plays a completely different style than most Qbs.. so he has his own system.. and he is more concerned with winning games than trying to please people hat don' under stand the QB position and base their evaluation on LOOKS.


Quote:
Conversely other guys like Newton and Luck LOOK like great Qbs yet when they get on the field what is the reality? None of them has proved themselves as a passer as Tebow did against the best defenses. If Luck wants that kind of recognition he should play the best. If Luck had to run so much against PAC10 defenses why should we think he would fare well against SEC D?

You just need to stop because you are embarrassing yourself.

You need to come up with an actual argument.


When Luck is on the field, the reality is that he is great. Which is why MOST of the people giving out scouting reports on him, say that he's the best they've seen SINCE ELway.

Yeah. of course he looks great.. he's playing garbage teams and garbage defenses.

Look at Oregon.. they put up 60 poiints on every PAC10 D and then they face an SEC D in Auburn and can't score to save their life. Same thing happened when Sam Bradford and OU faced Florida D. Couldn't score to save their life.. yet put up 60 on every BIG12 D.


Luck already got the recognition, so I don't know what kind of recognition you think he "wants." People (scouts, pro's, college coaches, GMs ) don't say that he's the best they've seen in 25 years based on records.

That's what they said about Ryan Leaf for the exact same reason.. just like Jake Locker... how could someone not look good against those weak teams. Try playing in the parity of the SEC.. then we will see.


What are you talking about? What does he do that's unique? He isn't as good of a runner as Vick.

Tebow is the Shaq OF RUNNING QBs. Vick is the Allen Iverson of running Qbs.. who has all the rings? Guys like Vick/Iverson are explosive and put up big numbers on bad D but can't do that against the best D. The Tebow's Shaq's can. Tebow is a more versatile runner than Vick and can take far more punishment inside and outside the pocket.


He's not as good of a passer as Vince Young.

You just lost all credibility. Vince was nowhere near the passer Tebow was eve against soft BIG12 D..


He's not of a good passer as Cunningham, nor is he as good of a runner as Cunningham. Tebow certainly isn't the passer that new guys like Ryan and Bradford are.

This is yours and all the critics big mistake.. guys like Tebow and Vick can rely on there athleticism.. so you can't evaluate them like other QBs. They don't have to take the same risks these guys.. Tebow's "struggles" in the NFL are about adapting to the NFL systems because NFL personnel cannot adapt to them.. This is why McD and Belli loved Tebow and others like Cowher hate him. MCD&BB run a similar system to Florida's.. they know how to adapt to Tebow where others don't.

Tebow does things differently.. he revolutionized the QB position in college. Every Qb tries to play a little more like Tebow now because he had so much success playing his style. People didn't think it was possible.. this is why no one did it before Tebow. Cam is the closest one and he only did it one season and had the perfect team around him to help him do what Tebow did alone, not by accident either. He had a service find the ideal supporting cast to enhaince his abilities. Poeple always want to compare cam and Tebow.. Cam's real comparison is Chris Leak.. both Leak and Cam were carried by their cuppsoting cast -- Tebow and Dyer..


His play style is NOT unique, and they (scouts, pro's, coaches, GMs) aren't skeptical of Tebow's play because he's doing something they've never seen before. Quite the opposite. They've seen it before. Great success in college by running the ball, not having a knowledge of reading defenses, and putting up numbers by playing in a all-shotgun, spread offense. This is nothing new.

Then why did they say Tebow's style wouldn't translate to the SEC and why was he far more successful than anyone anticipated? Why did he win the Heisman as a sophomore playing unlike any QB in SEC history? Why did everyone in college say Tebow revolutionize the way his position is played? why did Steve Young say Tebow would revolutionize the QB position in the NFL after he saw Tebow beat Houston? Wake up!


Seriously dude, you are making yourself look silly by saying everyone that disagrees with you (and all those that actually know what they are talking about) are small minded because they aren't blinded by the 'love' for a player.

I haven't said that I want Tebow to fail. I don't. I haven't even said I think he will be a failure. I've said that as of right now, he looks more 'raw' than I had expected him to be and saw things that make me DOUBT that he will ever be the passing QB we need in this league. He's not a good passer, and absolutely can see why Elway has his reservations on him. As much as I hate McDooshbag, I can see why a coach that spent so many picks to take him, would be hesitant to put him in the line of fire for too long.

Tebow is a excellent passer.. he juts does it differently than other QBs..

Look at it this way.. Tebow dominated the best defenses in college football history and even did it better than cma passing the ball and Tebow did that with funky mechanics..

Do you get that? Tebow was better with worse fundamentals... imagine what he could do with polished mechanics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again.. don't assume Tebow is playing poorly because he plays differently.. do you think Peyton would be such a polished passer and throw the ball as much if he was as athletic as Tebow/Vick? especially if he won MORE playing like Tebow and vick?

It's a new era.. you have to realize the QB position is changing.. both QBs in the Superbowl were close to Tebow than to Peyton Manning.. and guys like Manning and Brady were out early in the playoffs.

BroncoStud
03-09-2011, 05:59 PM
I never left the swamp silly nips.

BUT if he sucks and I eat crow Ill stick around and take my lumps. Despite being a HORRIBLE winner I can be a pretty humble loser.

When Teebz takes us to the playoffs on his back and puts up some crazy numbers I want you to do the same.

THE FRST thing you have to do is admit you dont know shit about evaluating a QB.

If Tebow fails will you still be a Broncos fan when he is replaced?

vandammage13
03-09-2011, 05:59 PM
Lol
You might ask TT if he needs an autobiographer.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

I didn't know Tebow was so powerful he can have someone else do an autobiography on him....I think he does have a book coming out soon though. Not sure if its a Biography or an Autobiography. Probably the former. Guess someone beat me to it.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-09-2011, 06:00 PM
everyone has an autobiographer.

:lol:

No kidding! I'm like my favorite autobiographer...:D

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 06:01 PM
No nono... you are putting to much ambiguity into your parameters. Whats "sucking?" Thats obviously a matter of perception, and I don't think Tebow is going to "suck" which is why I put the solid 50% of your prediction on the table.

This gives you a way of not having to slither away if he hits 51%, but still doesn't give you much room to throw out the over-the-top Tebow hype.

50% of what I said is sucking horribly... 14 pass TDs 7 rushing TDS 1750 yards passing... 400 rushing for a whole year of starts? Yea you might as well start KOs lesser known older brother chester... the molester

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 06:08 PM
everyone has an autobiographer.

You do have a way of being a killjoy.
:coffee:
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Bullgator
03-09-2011, 06:14 PM
If Tebow fails will you still be a Broncos fan when he is replaced?

I will always be a Broncos fan.

Truth is I always have been a Broncos fan. Its just always been a distant 2nd to all Gator sports. and its much more fun reading all the condicending remarks about how im a 10 min fan and I should **** and crawl back to the swamp...

I like having Top, Rav RC ect..show thier true colors as facsists

I love Elway... where im from everyone was a Dan Marino guy.. I was a John Elway guy.. all 4 superbowls he lost I was bitter and the the 2 he did win I was happy as a clam.. and won some money too.

Elway was always my second favorate player behind Emmit Smith and now third behind TT. I will always root for DB.

EDIT: sorry to admit the gurly method of choosing a team to root for by colors had to do with it as well... orange and blue bebe!

That said, if TT leaves I will also be a fan of his new team, thats just natural. Ill still root for DB but not against TT.

But to me TT>DB and thats not what you want to hear.. sorry for that but it is what it is.

shank
03-09-2011, 06:18 PM
:lol:

No kidding! I'm like my favorite autobiographer...:D

i'll be your favorite after you read my autobiography of david carradine.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 06:23 PM
They were saying th same thing about Locker at one time.. when his team was playing well and beat USC. Locker was raved about more and longer than Luck. Luck only surfaced when Locker fell to Earth. The same is likely to happen to Luck. Just like with Tebow. You stay in school long enough and people are going to see your warts no matter who you are. Though guys like Luck and Locker have a huge advantage because they play such weak teams and D in the PAC10 compared to Tebow in the SEC. That is EXACTLY how Ryan Leaf got rated higher than Peyton Manning.



Yes he did look at the numbers. Tebow had the best preseason of any of the rookie QBs too. Only thing that kept Tebow from playing was McD raising Orton's level of play so high last season. Which is why McD is coaching the second best QB in last seasons draft after Tebow.



Yes.. people in the NFL care more about how someone looks than how they actually play. How else does Cam Newton get rated over Tebow? Again.. these people know just enough to be dangerous. Tebow plays a completely different style than most Qbs.. so he has his own system.. and he is more concerned with winning games than trying to please people hat don' under stand the QB position and base their evaluation on LOOKS.



You need to come up with an actual argument.



Yeah. of course he looks great.. he's playing garbage teams and garbage defenses.

Look at Oregon.. they put up 60 poiints on every PAC10 D and then they face an SEC D in Auburn and can't score to save their life. Same thing happened when Sam Bradford and OU faced Florida D. Couldn't score to save their life.. yet put up 60 on every BIG12 D.



That's what they said about Ryan Leaf for the exact same reason.. just like Jake Locker... how could someone not look good against those weak teams. Try playing in the parity of the SEC.. then we will see.



Tebow is the Shaq OF RUNNING QBs. Vick is the Allen Iverson of running Qbs.. who has all the rings? Guys like Vick/Iverson are explosive and put up big numbers on bad D but can't do that against the best D. The Tebow's Shaq's can. Tebow is a more versatile runner than Vick and can take far more punishment inside and outside the pocket.



You just lost all credibility. Vince was nowhere near the passer Tebow was eve against soft BIG12 D..



This is yours and all the critics big mistake.. guys like Tebow and Vick can rely on there athleticism.. so you can't evaluate them like other QBs. They don't have to take the same risks these guys.. Tebow's "struggles" in the NFL are about adapting to the NFL systems because NFL personnel cannot adapt to them.. This is why McD and Belli loved Tebow and others like Cowher hate him. MCD&BB run a similar system to Florida's.. they know how to adapt to Tebow where others don't.

Tebow does things differently.. he revolutionized the QB position in college. Every Qb tries to play a little more like Tebow now because he had so much success playing his style. People didn't think it was possible.. this is why no one did it before Tebow. Cam is the closest one and he only did it one season and had the perfect team around him to help him do what Tebow did alone, not by accident either. He had a service find the ideal supporting cast to enhaince his abilities. Poeple always want to compare cam and Tebow.. Cam's real comparison is Chris Leak.. both Leak and Cam were carried by their cuppsoting cast -- Tebow and Dyer..



Then why did they say Tebow's style wouldn't translate to the SEC and why was he far more successful than anyone anticipated? Why did he win the Heisman as a sophomore playing unlike any QB in SEC history? Why did everyone in college say Tebow revolutionize the way his position is played? why did Steve Young say Tebow would revolutionize the QB position in the NFL after he saw Tebow beat Houston? Wake up!



Tebow is a excellent passer.. he juts does it differently than other QBs..

Look at it this way.. Tebow dominated the best defenses in college football history and even did it better than cma passing the ball and Tebow did that with funky mechanics..

Do you get that? Tebow was better with worse fundamentals... imagine what he could do with polished mechanics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again.. don't assume Tebow is playing poorly because he plays differently.. do you think Peyton would be such a polished passer and throw the ball as much if he was as athletic as Tebow/Vick? especially if he won MORE playing like Tebow and vick?

It's a new era.. you have to realize the QB position is changing.. both QBs in the Superbowl were close to Tebow than to Peyton Manning.. and guys like Manning and Brady were out early in the playoffs.
Wow.
1. If TT wzs so good, why didn't he win the Heisman again?
2. Bradford #1 pick/TT #25.
3. SEC doesn't have passing qb's on the same level as other conferences. By being the 'best of the worst', you're not saying much.
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Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 06:24 PM
It's a new era.. you have to realize the QB position is changing.. both QBs in the Superbowl were close to Tebow than to Peyton Manning.. and guys like Manning and Brady were out early in the playoffs.

:lol:

I'm not going to waste my time, nor the bandwidth, responding to that entire lengthly drivel you just displayed.

But I'll use this portion of your thread to point out just how ridiculous you are.

The NFL is about passing. THe rules are made for passing. The fans like passing. The NFL is NOT changing to help running QBs and running QBs have been around for generations. The fact that you think Rodgers is closer to Tebow than Breese just shows how little you know and how ignorant you are.

Just the year before we had Manning vs Brees, yet this season shows the NFL has transformed?? :lol:

I heard this same speech with Vick and Culpepper (another QB that could be compared to Tebow). You just keep looking at your college stats and "Big12" comparisons and hold onto that Tebow autographed poster you got at florida if it keeps you warm at night.

In the meantime, your entire post was so lacking in truth that it made me laugh. I find it cute though. Welcome to the Broncos. I hope your fandom sticks around as long as your biased perspective has. :beer:

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 06:32 PM
I will always be a Broncos fan.

Truth is I always have been a Broncos fan. Its just always been a distant 2nd to all Gator sports. and its much more fun reading all the condicending remarks about how im a 10 min fan and I should **** and crawl back to the swamp...

I like having Top, Rav RC ect..show thier true colors as facsists

I love Elway... where im from everyone was a Dan Marino guy.. I was a John Elway guy.. all 4 superbowls he lost I was bitter and the the 2 he did win I was happy as a clam.. and won some money too.

Elway was always my second favorate player behind Emmit Smith and now third behind TT. I will always root for DB.

EDIT: sorry to admit the gurly method of choosing a team to root for by colors had to do with it as well... orange and blue bebe!

That said, if TT leaves I will also be a fan of his new team, thats just natural. Ill still root for DB but not against TT.

But to me TT>DB and thats not what you want to hear.. sorry for that but it is what it is.
So you've always been a db fan.
Now you are MORE of a fan after your gatorbator is drafted.
And even though you've always been a db fan, you'll change teams in a heartbeat if he leaves.

:laugh:

Hey Top.....you hit it right-on.

:
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Bullgator
03-09-2011, 06:32 PM
Wow.
1. If TT wzs so good, why didn't he win the Heisman again?
2. Bradford #1 pick/TT #25.
3. SEC doesn't have passing qb's on the same level as other conferences. By being the 'best of the worst', you're not saying much.
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after that well laid out post your rebuttle is that?

Unsubstantiated, unsupported comments like that are what you are famous for.

how did Mr. Bradford do against a SEC D? well he stunk up the joint and threw 2picks and his vaunted O scored only 14 points not 60!

TT was a top 3 hiesman finalist 3 years in a row.. he would never live up to his sophmore year simply because the team was better and needed to lean on him less.

SEC has more NFL talent than any other confrence including QB talent. its not my opinion its fact RC.

lets not make this about the SEC, its clear you have some feelings there but its neither here nor there.

Im going to enjoy ribbing you most of all when its time

bcbronc
03-09-2011, 06:32 PM
Lol @ the Tebow did it all by himself BS. Especially in a post that states how UF's D shut down Bradford.

Didn't UF win a national title running the same system with Leak? How's his CFL career coming along. Didn't Urban Meyers pitch a perfect season with Alex Smith taking the shot gun snaps? Sure, not against the same level of competition, but AS wasn't surrounded by the same level of talent either. Oh yeah, I forgot, Florida can't recruit talent and had no one on the team other than Tebow.

The one thing Tebow does differently than most QBs before him is depend on a pure power game. He couldn't get through preseason plaing that game in the NFL. In college he could use his strenght and power to bowl through (non-NFL calibre) DL and LBs to convert 3rd and 3s. He could run off tackle basically at will from UFs spread. Its already been shown he can't play that game in the pros. Now that teams have tape on him, and two of our 3 div rivals have experienced the Tebow factor live and in person, he's going to need to evolve his game. Can he do that? Maybe. But one thing I can guarantee, what allowed him to "change the position" in the SECOND won't translate to Bronco wins. And that's really all that matters.
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Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 06:33 PM
I like having Top, Rav RC ect..show thier true colors as facsists

:lol: What?


where im from everyone was a Dan Marino guy.. I was a John Elway guy.. all 4 superbowls he lost I was bitter and the the 2 he did win I was happy as a clam.. and won some money too.

Elway only lost 3 Super Bowls.



That said, if TT leaves I will also be a fan of his new team, thats just natural. Ill still root for DB but not against TT.



But to me TT>DB and thats not what you want to hear.. sorry for that but it is what it is.

Some are NFL guys and some are college guys. You are a college guy and certainly not an NFL guy.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 06:35 PM
So you've always been a db fan.
Now you are MORE of a fan after your gatorbator is drafted.
And even though you've always been a db fan, you'll change teams in a heartbeat if he leaves.

:laugh:

Hey Top.....you hit it right-on.

:
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Yea thats about right.. ill still root for DB but not against TT.. so what? is it a crime to be loyal to what you grew up with?

are you saying i SHOULDNT be loyal? thats ironic considering your professed loaylty to your team. DB will always have a special place in my heart, but it wont be first place ever.. UF will hold that place I really dont care if you dont like that.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 06:37 PM
If Elway left in his prime to be a Gator would you leave the broncos to root for UF above all? dont be a dummy

bcbronc
03-09-2011, 06:39 PM
That SECOND should be s e c. Thanks auto correct.
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Bullgator
03-09-2011, 06:42 PM
:lol: What?



Elway only lost 3 Super Bowls.

yea DB lost 4 John lost 3... felt like 5



Some are NFL guys and some are college guys. You are a college guy and certainly not an NFL guy.

Im CFB but I love the NFL too what is your point sir. You are losing me.

MacGruder
03-09-2011, 06:46 PM
I'm not going to waste my time, nor the bandwidth, responding to that entire lengthly drivel you just displayed.

Because you have no argument. You had no argument in your last post and I took the time to respond anyway.


The NFL is about passing. THe rules are made for passing.

So then why are QBs like Vick and Vince Young so successful even without the work ethic of a Tebow?


The fans like passing.

Fans like winning.


The NFL is NOT changing to help running QBs and running QBs have been around for generations.

The NFL is changing because pocket Qbs are not as successful as they once were and are getting injured even more in the pocket than athletic QBs running the ball. If you are athletic enough running helps protect you as a passer.. if you aren't athletic then youa re screwed in o rout of the pocket.


The fact that you think Rodgers is closer to Tebow than Breese just shows how little you know and how ignorant you are.

So then why does Rodgers run so much? Why wasn't he a starter for so long?

J
ust the year before we had Manning vs Brees, yet this season shows the NFL has transformed??

You have more passing Qbs than running QBs.This enhances passers chances.. the NFL is behind the times.. they are afraid to adapt to the new era.. That is why Tebow is revolutionary. He did it spontaneously... no coach figured it out.. he figured it out by winning. By dominating playing his style. And coaches have been forced to adapt to him because he has been so successful. It's very conter intuitive though.. coaches can't help but want to try to protect Qbs in the pocket even though it's a lost cause.


I heard this same speech with Vick and Culpepper (another QB that could be compared to Tebow). You just keep looking at your college stats and "Big12" comparisons and hold onto that Tebow autographed poster you got at florida if it keeps you warm at night.

I'm not from Florida.. and not a big colelge football fan. I happened to see the highschool special on Tebow on ESPN and thought there was something very unique about him -- seemed like the real deal.. followed him his whole college career and saw how he was doubted then just like now. lane Kiffin recruited Tebow for USC and said he saw the same exact thing from coaches then -- doubting him.


In the meantime, your entire post was so lacking in truth that it made me laugh. I find it cute though. Welcome to the Broncos. I hope your fandom sticks around as long as your biased perspective has.

You may say I am biased but at least I actually have some idea of what I am talking about with Tebow.. you should try actually listening to people who know what his game is about rather than burying your head in the sand based on the opinion of "experts" who didn't watch him or have their own biases. What you have to realize is that many of these people that doubt Tebow so vocally do so because they were skeptical from the beginning and he proved them wrong all through college.. this is why they have such a grudge. They refuse to admit they were wrong and are still holding out hope they are proven right.

One thing you are right about though is that the NFL does want pure passing Qbs.. which is why they protect them and let Ds have their way with Tebow because he chooses to run.

This is why you have neither on of them being successful now.. athletic Qbs should be the most successful but the NFl coaches and refs won't let it happen and pocket passers don't have the goods to dominate now.

What you have to realize though is that pocket passing systems are really the gimmick.. in past eras when there wasn't the parity there is now passing Qbs could dominate on loaded teams. Now there is parity and defenses are much more athletic and prepared than i past eras too.

THis is why Peyton Manning has fewer champs than BigBen.. Brady was carried by his D too..

Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 06:47 PM
Im CFB but I love the NFL too what is your point sir. You are losing me.

NFL watches their team. You watch your college team, and then watch your Florida players over NFL teams.

You are a college fan that watches your florida boyz. Thats not an NFL fan.

topscribe
03-09-2011, 06:47 PM
So you've always been a db fan.
Now you are MORE of a fan after your gatorbator is drafted.
And even though you've always been a db fan, you'll change teams in a heartbeat if he leaves.

:laugh:

Hey Top.....you hit it right-on.

:
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. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thgoofy.gif

:pound:

-----

BroncoStud
03-09-2011, 06:49 PM
Wow.
1. If TT wzs so good, why didn't he win the Heisman again?
2. Bradford #1 pick/TT #25.
3. SEC doesn't have passing qb's on the same level as other conferences. By being the 'best of the worst', you're not saying much.
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1.) So now winning a Heisman AGAIN translates to being a good NFL QB?

2.) Bradford #1? So what happened when Tebow played Bradford head to head in a National Championship? TT owned him. Ok, so there have NEVER been quarterbacks that busted being drafted highly... Dan Marino fell in the draft, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Drew Brees was passed over, Brett Favre, so many others that weren't top 5 draft picks ended up having GREAT careers... Being drafted #1 means you are THE MAN. Just ask Tim Couch, JeMarcus Russell, and Alex Smith - I mean, it's INSTANT Hall of Fame...!

3.) Yeah, Peyton Manning isn't on the same level as other conference QBs... :rolleyes:



It's amazing, do some of you people even WATCH football or do you just post from underneath a rock throwing as much feces against the board as possible hoping something sticks...

arapaho2
03-09-2011, 06:50 PM
.

There is a reason that he couldn't beat out Orton as the starter, .


would that be he was a rookie...and orton was a 5 year vet..or that it was ortons 2nd season in what orton defenders claim was a ultra complicated offense...or that he didnt get any practise snaps???
just checking?




psssssst...he did beat out orton...week 15 atfer orton stunk up the place for a few weeks

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 06:50 PM
Lol @ the Tebow did it all by himself BS. Especially in a post that states how UF's D shut down Bradford.

Didn't UF win a national title running the same system with Leak? How's his CFL career coming along. Didn't Urban Meyers pitch a perfect season with Alex Smith taking the shot gun snaps? Sure, not against the same level of competition, but AS wasn't surrounded by the same level of talent either. Oh yeah, I forgot, Florida can't recruit talent and had no one on the team other than Tebow.

The one thing Tebow does differently than most QBs before him is depend on a pure power game. He couldn't get through preseason plaing that game in the NFL. In college he could use his strenght and power to bowl through (non-NFL calibre) DL and LBs to convert 3rd and 3s. He could run off tackle basically at will from UFs spread. Its already been shown he can't play that game in the pros. Now that teams have tape on him, and two of our 3 div rivals have experienced the Tebow factor live and in person, he's going to need to evolve his game. Can he do that? Maybe. But one thing I can guarantee, what allowed him to "change the position" in the SECOND won't translate to Bronco wins. And that's really all that matters.
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Who said TT won it all by himself??????????

IN FACT what i said was his hiesman year UF sucked and he had some crazy numbers to win the hiesman but the 2 yeas after that the TEAM WAS BETTER AND LEANED ON HIM LESS.

And NO it wasnt the same system with Leak it was MUCH different. Meyer couldnt run that system with leak because like Orton, he would spontaniously combust if the air cushion from a pass rush even neared him.

bcbronc
03-09-2011, 06:54 PM
Hey Bull, macgruber said tebow did it all by himself. Check yer ego at the door, you aint the only Tetroll in the house.
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Bullgator
03-09-2011, 07:00 PM
The GREAT thing is im so effing happy to be on the winning side of this arguement. All of you so called experts are talking out of your asses and sooon sooooon...

You dont accept the evidence we supproters have which is his college career and his pre season games/3 starts

FINE its not enough to prove anything... fine...BUT THEN WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU BASING YOUR OPINIONS ON??? YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF BAD PLAY... EVER! You have nothing to point to! all you have is what you THINK.

If this is a poker game would you go all in that TT is a bust? Would you even bet at all based on the EVIDENCE?

your evidence is a negative that cannot be proven... the truth is you just hate on him with no reason other than personal ones.

My evidence you dont accept for the same reasons.

so its going to be sweeeeeeet to watch all you haters eat some crooowwww ill get you guys a cook book so it goes down easier.

MacGruder
03-09-2011, 07:12 PM
Lol @ the Tebow did it all by himself BS. Especially in a post that states how UF's D shut down Bradford.

All SEC teams have great D.. UF got beat by Ole Miss.. we have never seen the kind of parity in the SEC that exists now.. the only thing that separates them is a guy like Tebow..


Didn't UF win a national title running the same system with Leak?

This was far and away the best team UF faced that year..

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/1264362207

People don't realize it but UF is known as a finesse offense. Tebow singlehandedly turned a finesse O into a physical dominate running SEC offense. That's what wins in the SEC. And do you realize what an incredible luxury it is having a Heisman caliber QB an runner coming in off the bench. Teams had no idea how to defend Tebow when he left college.. in his first year they had no clue. And UF STILL barely got to the champ game that year. I think Tebow was the offensive MVP.. lots of college Qbs could have filled Leaks role.. but no one else in college football could provide what Tebow did.

That's why I say Cam Newton is equal t Leak not Tebow.. those were the guys being carried..


How's his CFL career coming along. Didn't Urban Meyers pitch a perfect season with Alex Smith taking the shot gun snaps?

Yeah.. Alex SMith got overrated playing the same kind of D Luck and Locker did.. yet do you see anyone pointing that out?


Sure, not against the same level of competition, but AS wasn't surrounded by the same level of talent either. Oh yeah, I forgot, Florida can't recruit talent and had no one on the team other than Tebow.

It's about talent compared to the competition they face.. again.. we have never seen thw kind of parity in the SEC right now.. this is why it's silly to compare Tebow to guys like Danny Wuerful. They didn't have the parity then. The rules have changed about scholarships.

If Tebow was lucky to be on a talented team then how do you explain UF falling off so dramatically without him.. I think Cam would have been in the exact same boat as Brantley this year. They let Cam go because he could not run UF's pass heavy offense. AU has a power run game that suits a running QB. This is why Tebow was so special.. he was a running QB that could run UF's pass heavy O against the best D. Tebow's passing opened his running.. Cam and Au's running opened his passing Complete opposite. cam also had better runners around him and a better offensive line. This is why Tebow is a better passer and runne.r Cma could not have carried the run load Tebow did and survived..



The one thing Tebow does differently than most QBs before him is depend on a pure power game. He couldn't get through preseason plaing that game in the NFL.

That was a fluke.. he was dared to perform because of all the criticism. He was even dared not to run. If he had run more before they got to the end zone it wouldn't even have come down to putting him in that position to get injured. He wouldn't even have missed a game if it wasn't preseason. Tebow got banged up in college and played through it all the time. Unlike NFL they didn't have to disclose those injures.


In college he could use his strenght and power to bowl through (non-NFL calibre) DL and LBs to convert 3rd and 3s.

So SEC players are non NFL? By that logic NO runners in college can translate to the NFL... do you realize what a physical monster Tebow is? if he can't survive in the NFL then who can? LOL



He could run off tackle basically at will from UFs spread. Its already been shown he can't play that game in the pros.

Then why did Steve Young say Tebow should revolutionize the NFL after seeing him play his college style against Houston and dominating them?


Now that teams have tape on him, and two of our 3 div rivals have experienced the Tebow factor live and in person, he's going to need to evolve his game.

Tape? You think NFL teams haven't seen players run or pass the ball? Have't seen the wildcat? LOL Steve Young saw the tape and said "we are witnessing greatness"


Can he do that? Maybe. But one thing I can guarantee, what allowed him to "change the position" in the SECOND won't translate to Bronco wins. And that's really all that matters.
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Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

Do you realize that Matt Stafford has been injured as much as anyone and is a pocket QB and number one pick?

Ravage!!!
03-09-2011, 07:18 PM
Because you have no argument. You had no argument in your last post and I took the time to respond anyway.
Bud, your entire last post was so full of fail it was making me laugh. I don't waste my time with this lack of knowledge for long, and this will be my last post to you because you are so ridiculous. You are so overboard in your biase, its bordering on pathetic. You showed in your last post you didn't know what you were talkgin about and then continue with this.


So then why are QBs like Vick and Vince Young so successful even without the work ethic of a Tebow?
:lol: How many playoff victories between the two of them? :lol:


Fans like winning.
and the passing QBs win in the NFL.


The NFL is changing because pocket Qbs are not as successful as they once were and are getting injured even more in the pocket than athletic QBs running the ball. If you are athletic enough running helps protect you as a passer.. if you aren't athletic then youa re screwed in o rout of the pocket.
See, you aren't talking in facts and this is just flat out wrong. There isn't a single sentence in this paragraph that is correct, but its funny to read, and so CUTE that you think its true. ALmost as cute as you believing that the college QBs have changed because of Tebow and they are trying to BE LIKE HIM!!!! ahahahaa :lol:

The Rules have changed because the NFL is about the passing QB. Fans love to watch the passing QB and the NFL is about passing the ball. The NFL wanted more passing yards and more passing TDs because passing has become the dynamic of the NFL.

Running QBs get hurt. Ask Tim in his first running TD in pre-season how much running QBs helps his health.

Here's a secret for you. Most college QBs want to move onto the NFL. If you want to be a high draft pick and be successful in teh NFL, you aren't going to try and mimic Tebow. You will pick your role-model to be like the best in the NFL. The Manning's, Brady's, Brees', and Rivers'.


So then why does Rodgers run so much? Why wasn't he a starter for so long?

Wow. You haven't been around very long have you? Why wasn't he a starter when sitting behind Brett Favre? :confused: And if Rodgers is like Tebow (which he's not) then how does him NOT being a starter make your case??? :confused: Also, how does Rodgers scrambling make him like Tebow? You realize that he was in the NFL before Tebow started in college... do you think Rodgers is mimicing Tebow as well?? :lol:



You have more passing Qbs than running QBs.This enhances passers chances.. the NFL is behind the times.. they are afraid to adapt to the new era.. That is why Tebow is revolutionary. He did it spontaneously... no coach figured it out.. he figured it out by winning. By dominating playing his style. And coaches have been forced to adapt to him because he has been so successful. It's very conter intuitive though.. coaches can't help but want to try to protect Qbs in the pocket even though it's a lost cause.

How is the NFL behind the times when they ARE the times?

See, its stuff like this that makes me remember why I wouldn't normally post in a conversation with you. YOu are just tooooooo delusional to debate with. This makes it look like you are 14 years old and have actually nothing to go on by your ridiculously biased man-crush.



You may say I am biased but at least I actually have some idea of what I am talking about with Tebow.. you should try actually listening to people who know what his game is about rather than burying your head in the sand based on the opinion of "experts" who didn't watch him or have their own biases.
But you obviously have no knowledge of football. Why would I listen to your opinion when you keep proving this? All you have done so far is prove you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and purely talking out your butt making stuff up to fit your love for Tebow. I'm guessing you are a y oung teenager that just hasn't had much experience in life( certainly not much experience watching football) and believes anyone older than 25 is "behind the times"

Here's another fact for you. Most of those that critiqued his college play, not only watched all his games, but did it with game film and game tape, and did it with actual football knowledge. Not like some 13 year old boy who's biggest football experience includes playing Junior High linebacker.



What you have to realize is that many of these people that doubt Tebow so vocally do so because they were skeptical from the beginning and he proved them wrong all through college.. this is why they have such a grudge. They refuse to admit they were wrong and are still holding out hope they are proven right.

Yeah, thats it. Again, more evidence that shows me tht you are a young kid


One thing you are right about though is that the NFL does want pure passing Qbs.. which is why they protect them and let Ds have their way with Tebow because he chooses to run.
I t hink it was initially called the "anti-tebow" rule to keep him from over-powering the NFL!!


This is why you have neither on of them being successful now.. athletic Qbs should be the most successful but the NFl coaches and refs won't let it happen and pocket passers don't have the goods to dominate now.
Damn those coaches and refs!! Its a conspiracy I tell ya!!!!


What you have to realize though is that pocket passing systems are really the gimmick.. in past eras when there wasn't the parity there is now passing Qbs could dominate on loaded teams. Now there is parity and defenses are much more athletic and prepared than i past eras too.

THis is why Peyton Manning has fewer champs than BigBen.. Brady was carried by his D too..

Yeah... you obviously got it all figured out. I mean, who could argue such sound football fundamentals as you have expressed in this portion. Pocket passing is the gimmick. You obviously have a MUCH MUCH bigger understanding of the game of football over all the coaches, scouts, ex-players and GMs... as they just don't see the truth as you do.

Down with the conspiracies.. down with tyranny!! :coffee:

topscribe
03-09-2011, 07:22 PM
I'm sorry, but I have to break my self-imposed lurking. Just too much nonsense . . .



So then why are QBs like Vick and Vince Young so successful even without the work ethic of a Tebow?

You talk as if Tebow is the only worker in football. You think Vick and Young
don't work hard? That is just silly.

And Vick and Young began to have more success when they improved their
passing and learned to stick to the pocket and pass first, run second. That
has been thoroughly written and talked about.



Fans like winning.

Keep that in mind when Orton starts this year. If the Broncos win, the fans
will turn around and want things to stay the same, provided they keep
winning. Will you? Many TT fans still will not be happy, I'm sure.



The NFL is changing because pocket Qbs are not as successful as they once were and are getting injured even more in the pocket than athletic QBs running the ball. If you are athletic enough running helps protect you as a passer.. if you aren't athletic then youa re screwed in o rout of the pocket.

Then why did Elway clearly say Tebow is going to have to become a better
pocket passer? Why is it that those in the league fear for Tebow's health if
he keeps running like he has? Did you see Tebow's first NFL running TD in
preseason? How did that work out?

Kordell Stewart was a running QB. Everyone who knows football knows that.
In a recent interview with CJ & Klatt on 87.5 The Ticket (http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=743&f=65402), Stewart stated just
the opposite of what you just said. He said running QBs do not usually last
very long in the NFL, that pocket QBs who learn to maneuver within the
pocket have more success. Stewart ought to know.



So then why does Rodgers run so much? Why wasn't he a starter for so long?

I'll defer to Brett Favre on that one . . .



You have more passing Qbs than running QBs.This enhances passers chances.. the NFL is behind the times.. they are afraid to adapt to the new era.. That is why Tebow is revolutionary. He did it spontaneously... no coach figured it out.. he figured it out by winning. By dominating playing his style. And coaches have been forced to adapt to him because he has been so successful. It's very conter intuitive though.. coaches can't help but want to try to protect Qbs in the pocket even though it's a lost cause.


Both Fox and Elway agreed that Tebow is a good football player but not yet
a good QB. Kind of flies in the face of what you just said, doesn't it?



You may say I am biased but at least I actually have some idea of what I am talking about with Tebow.. you should try actually listening to people who know what his game is about rather than burying your head in the sand based on the opinion of "experts" who didn't watch him or have their own biases. What you have to realize is that many of these people that doubt Tebow so vocally do so because they were skeptical from the beginning and he proved them wrong all through college.. this is why they have such a grudge. They refuse to admit they were wrong and are still holding out hope they are proven right.

John Elway and John Fox are expert enough for me. Preferable to you, anyway.
Nothing personal . . . it's just that they are the professionals, and you aren't.



One thing you are right about though is that the NFL does want pure passing Qbs.. which is why they protect them and let Ds have their way with Tebow because he chooses to run.

Where did you get that? :lol:



This is why you have neither on of them being successful now.. athletic Qbs should be the most successful but the NFl coaches and refs won't let it happen and pocket passers don't have the goods to dominate now.

I'll have to defer to Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees on that one . . .



What you have to realize though is that pocket passing systems are really the gimmick.. in past eras when there wasn't the parity there is now passing Qbs could dominate on loaded teams. Now there is parity and defenses are much more athletic and prepared than i past eras too.

You need to get out more . . .



THis is why Peyton Manning has fewer champs than BigBen.. Brady was carried by his D too..

It's true that QBs have to have a good supporting cast . . . although, if you
look at the pathetic running game and defense on Peyton's team, and you . . .
well, someone open-minded, anyway . . . would realize that Peyton is truly
special, like in the argument for G.O.A.T.

And Peyton has very little mobility, except for knowing how to slip and slide
in the pocket.

Well, I'm through laughing now. Back into the shadows . . .

-----

KCL
03-09-2011, 07:30 PM
And Tebow is unique because he plays the game like no one before him.



That's one hell of a statement right there....no one before him huh?
RIGHT!!!

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 07:44 PM
Why is everyone picking on McGruber...

Awful lotta long winded posts and rebuttles on some stuff that has nothing to do with nothing.


Where is your proof that TT will fail cuz others have? That is as stupid an arguement as using TT will succeed becasue others have.

Dont mention Kordell, or cullpepper or young or even Vick.. none oof these boys are TT.

You guys are walking the green mile already... you dont have much time left, you might as well try to give up some real evidence pointing to TT failure as a NFL QB.. oh thats right you have none.

your negative wishful thinking has no bearing on reality. TT is what he is and that is a BEAST. Your personal reasons for hating him (UF/SEC/Religion/his dumbass fanbase/being a KO crotch grabber yada yada)

NONE OF THAT IS BASED ON FOOTBALL.. its all how you guys persoanlly feel about the sitch.

you CANT have a negative opinion about TT on FOOTBALL cuz the kid just keeps on winning.

Agent of Orange
03-09-2011, 07:47 PM
Why is everyone picking on McGruber...

Awful lotta long winded posts and rebuttles on some stuff that has nothing to do with nothing.

Where is your proof that TT will fail cuz others have? That is as stupid an arguement as using TT will succeed becasue others have.

Dont mention Kordell, or cullpepper or young or even Vick.. none oof these boys are TT.

You guys are walking the green mile already... you dont have much time left, you might as well try to give up some real evidence pointing to TT failure as a NFL QB.. oh thats right you have none.

your negative wishful thinking has no bearing on reality. TT is what he is and that is a BEAST. Your personal reasons for hating him (UF/SEC/Religion/his dumbass fanbase/being a KO crotch grabber yada yada)

NONE OF THAT IS BASED ON FOOTBALL.. its all how you guys persoanlly feel about the sitch.

you CANT have a negative opinion about TT on FOOTBALL cuz the kid just keeps on winning.

You should realize, before you characterize it as "they're picking on him", that there are a lot of sheep that think they're wolves. And so the idea that he's being picked on is really questionable.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 08:03 PM
after that well laid out post your rebuttle is that?

Unsubstantiated, unsupported comments like that are what you are famous for.

how did Mr. Bradford do against a SEC D? well he stunk up the joint and threw 2picks and his vaunted O scored only 14 points not 60!

TT was a top 3 hiesman finalist 3 years in a row.. he would never live up to his sophmore year simply because the team was better and needed to lean on him less.

SEC has more NFL talent than any other confrence including QB talent. its not my opinion its fact RC.

lets not make this about the SEC, its clear you have some feelings there but its neither here nor there.

Im going to enjoy ribbing you most of all when its time

Lmao.
You know less about me as you do your "favorite nfl team". Zilch ( how many sb's did elway lose?)
You might want to use Google vs Wiki.

And my response to your bloviating post was purposefully short, as it left my brain so numb, brevity HAD to be used.
If I want to submit a 10000 word essay, I'll wait til I'm on my computer.

Ps. Your reading aptitude is as lacking as your "DB" knowledge. :coffee:
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Bullgator
03-09-2011, 08:11 PM
NFL watches their team. You watch your college team, and then watch your Florida players over NFL teams.

You are a college fan that watches your florida boyz. Thats not an NFL fan.

um... agian SO WHAT what does that mean? I dont see where you are going with this.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 08:18 PM
Lmao.
You know less about me as you do your "favorite nfl team". Zilch ( how many sb's did elway lose?)
You might want to use Google vs Wiki.

And my response to your bloviating post was purposefully short, as it left my brain so numb, brevity HAD to be used.
If I want to submit a 10000 word essay, I'll wait til I'm on my computer.

Ps. Your reading aptitude is as lacking as your "DB" knowledge. :coffee:
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Ok it wasnt my post you responded too.. lol even when you are trying to limit your posts to eliminate boboery you still fail.

Get it all out RC not much time left.. the end is near

bcbronc
03-09-2011, 08:39 PM
All SEC teams have great D.. UF got beat by Ole Miss.. we have never seen the kind of parity in the SEC that exists now.. the only thing that separates them is a guy like Tebow..

you really have this much difficulty separating the NFL from the NCAA??




This was far and away the best team UF faced that year..

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/1264362207

People don't realize it but UF is known as a finesse offense. Tebow singlehandedly turned a finesse O into a physical dominate running SEC offense. That's what wins in the SEC. And do you realize what an incredible luxury it is having a Heisman caliber QB an runner coming in off the bench. Teams had no idea how to defend Tebow when he left college.. in his first year they had no clue. And UF STILL barely got to the champ game that year. I think Tebow was the offensive MVP.. lots of college Qbs could have filled Leaks role.. but no one else in college football could provide what Tebow did.


everyone knows Tebow was a great college player. and nobody cares, 'cept UF fans. I could care less about the SEC being competitive or not, it has zero relevance now that Tebow is in the pros.


That's why I say Cam Newton is equal t Leak not Tebow.. those were the guys being carried..


great, glad to hear it. means what again?


Yeah.. Alex SMith got overrated playing the same kind of D Luck and Locker did.. yet do you see anyone pointing that out?

or, you could spin it another way...Alex Smith got overrated playing the same kind of system Tebow did. and yes, I've heard just about everyone who's not sold on Tebow point that out. haven't you?



It's about talent compared to the competition they face.. again.. we have never seen thw kind of parity in the SEC right now.. this is why it's silly to compare Tebow to guys like Danny Wuerful. They didn't have the parity then. The rules have changed about scholarships.

what don't you understand about college not being the NFL? there's lists miles long of guys who were studs in college not being worth a jock strap in the NFL, and another list equally long of guys who had pedestrian college careers going on to be HOFers in the NFL. Parity in the SEC means sweet **** all in regards to this conversation.


If Tebow was lucky to be on a talented team then how do you explain UF falling off so dramatically without him..

don't know, don't pay much attention to Florida. my guess would be the typical cycle most NCAA programs go through.


I think Cam would have been in the exact same boat as Brantley this year. They let Cam go because he could not run UF's pass heavy offense. AU has a power run game that suits a running QB. This is why Tebow was so special.. he was a running QB that could run UF's pass heavy O against the best D. Tebow's passing opened his running.. Cam and Au's running opened his passing Complete opposite. cam also had better runners around him and a better offensive line. This is why Tebow is a better passer and runne.r Cma could not have carried the run load Tebow did and survived..

wait, is UF a "pass heavy offense" or a "physically dominant running offense"? you've said both in this post. try to get your propaganda straight before spewing it all over these forums. please and thank you.



That was a fluke.. he was dared to perform because of all the criticism. He was even dared not to run. If he had run more before they got to the end zone it wouldn't even have come down to putting him in that position to get injured. He wouldn't even have missed a game if it wasn't preseason. Tebow got banged up in college and played through it all the time. Unlike NFL they didn't have to disclose those injures.

it was a fluke that NFL defenders hit really, really hard. sure dude, just a fluke. lol.


So SEC players are non NFL? By that logic NO runners in college can translate to the NFL... do you realize what a physical monster Tebow is? if he can't survive in the NFL then who can? LOL


so now SEC players ARE NFL players? wtf are you going on about? you're not even making sense.

regardless, "surviving" isn't the name of the game, converting third downs is. the point isn't that Tebow can't take a hit. no one questions Tebows toughness. it's his effectiveness that is the issue. He won't be able to put his head down and plow through NFL defenders like he can SEC defenders; we've seen that all ready with all the 3rd and short to medium QB draws McCoy called that led to punts. and he doesn't have the elusiveness of a Vick or Young.


Then why did Steve Young say Tebow should revolutionize the NFL after seeing him play his college style against Houston and dominating them?

and I can find pundits that say Tebow won't make it. clearly one or the other is wrong. Hopefully it's not Young, but it could be.


Tape? You think NFL teams haven't seen players run or pass the ball? Have't seen the wildcat? LOL Steve Young saw the tape and said "we are witnessing greatness"

this really isn't a very difficult concept. You hear all the time "he's faster/stronger/quicker/etc than he looks on tape". But after you've seen it live once, that difference goes away.



Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

nope. not going to bet against the QB of my team, even if I have some questions about whether he'll make it or not. Not something you'd understand, I get that.


Do you realize that Matt Stafford has been injured as much as anyone and is a pocket QB and number one pick?

again, wtf does this have to do with the price of weed in columbia???



You guys are walking the green mile already... you dont have much time left, you might as well try to give up some real evidence pointing to TT failure as a NFL QB.. oh thats right you have none.



how about the fact that Tebow has simply been a dominant physical specimen his entire life, and that advantage is now greatly reduced. he also played for a mastermind at the college level who's system wins more than Charlie Sheen.

now he's going to have to do things he's NEVER had to do before to be successful: make the right reads, get the ball out on time and to the right guy, make accurate throws into tight windows, and use his legs to extend the play rather than being the play.

but you're throwing up straw men. no one is actually saying he'll be a failure. all anyone's saying is that the way he had success in college won't work in the pros. We're all hoping he can evolve his game to be able to consistently do what needs to be done to win games in the NFL. but he's not a rookie anymore; there's no more brownie points for *almost* coming back.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 08:43 PM
you are so overplaying the physical aspect in the NFL over the SEC

Tebow himself has stated over and over that the players are not faster and bigger but its the level of anticipation that is superior due to the xperience of play.

Tebow is a beast in any league physically

bcbronc
03-09-2011, 08:46 PM
you are so overplaying the physical aspect in the NFL over the SEC

Tebow himself has stated over and over that the players are not faster and bigger but its the level of anticipation that is superior due to the xperience of play.

Tebow is a beast in any league physically

sure, whatever helps you sleep at night. :beer:

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 08:53 PM
Ill take Tebows evaluatin over yours all day... considering he played in both leagues and isnt known to be a liar. Ill dig up some vidoe or quotes

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 08:56 PM
OK in this one he downplays the size and speed factor as much as he can without being flat out disrespectful to the league.. he is asked about it at 54 seconds

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_uf/2011/03/give-tim-tebow-a-hand-for-espn-the-weekend-appearance-video.html

SR
03-09-2011, 09:04 PM
after that well laid out post your rebuttle is that?

Unsubstantiated, unsupported comments like that are what you are famous for.

how did Mr. Bradford do against a SEC D? well he stunk up the joint and threw 2picks and his vaunted O scored only 14 points not 60!

TT was a top 3 hiesman finalist 3 years in a row.. he would never live up to his sophmore year simply because the team was better and needed to lean on him less.

SEC has more NFL talent than any other confrence including QB talent. its not my opinion its fact RC.

lets not make this about the SEC, its clear you have some feelings there but its neither here nor there.

Im going to enjoy ribbing you most of all when its time

Bradford was one game away from the playoffs and played all 16 games last season. Just sayin'

HORSEPOWER 56
03-09-2011, 09:04 PM
i'll be your favorite after you read my autobiography of david carradine.

Only after you read mine of Chuck Norris!

SR
03-09-2011, 09:05 PM
If Elway left in his prime to be a Gator would you leave the broncos to root for UF above all? dont be a dummy

No. I root for the team and the players that are on that team because they're on that team. I don't root for a team because of the players. that's backwards logic and that's the problem I have with a lot of you Tebow folk.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 09:06 PM
Bradford was one game away from the playoffs and played all 16 games last season. Just sayin'

True, but we will never know what TT would have done with 16 games either.. dont forget who beat who when they played head to head. In fact TT beat Cuttler and Stafford as well.

SR
03-09-2011, 09:06 PM
So then why are QBs like Vick and Vince Young so successful even without the work ethic of a Tebow?



They aren't. Neither have accomplished shit except a couple of regular season individual rewards.

SR
03-09-2011, 09:09 PM
Lmao.
You know less about me as you do your "favorite nfl team". Zilch ( how many sb's did elway lose?)
You might want to use Google vs Wiki.

And my response to your bloviating post was purposefully short, as it left my brain so numb, brevity HAD to be used.
If I want to submit a 10000 word essay, I'll wait til I'm on my computer.

Ps. Your reading aptitude is as lacking as your "DB" knowledge. :coffee:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Use words you didn't hear on the O'Reilly Factor, please.

SR
03-09-2011, 09:10 PM
Ok it wasnt my post you responded too.. lol even when you are trying to limit your posts to eliminate boboery you still fail.

Get it all out RC not much time left.. the end is near

You fail with fail words.

SR
03-09-2011, 09:11 PM
Ill take Tebows evaluatin over yours all day... considering he played in both leagues and isnt known to be a liar. Ill dig up some vidoe or quotes

Please proof read your posts dude. Please. It's painful.

SR
03-09-2011, 09:12 PM
True, but we will never know what TT would have done with 16 games either.. dont forget who beat who when they played head to head. In fact TT beat Cuttler and Stafford as well.

Wait. I thought this wasn't about the SEC? Get your story right, bro Montana.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 09:17 PM
No. I root for the team and the players that are on that team because they're on that team. I don't root for a team because of the players. that's backwards logic and that's the problem I have with a lot of you Tebow folk.

MY POINT EXACTLY, why would i stop rooting for the Gators because TT is a pro now and sell my soul only to denver for the rest of my life?

I dont live in a Pro town so what do you want from me? I have to root for a team NFL team somehow. the most logical way would be to follow a player there. how else am i going to have an emotional interest for one team over another?

Whats your point guys i dont see it. you cant understand how a college town fan can root for a team his favorate player goes to?

how does this make TT a bust or a fact less a fact or an opinon less worthy. this is where i get fascism from. because you were born in denver or been a denver fan for a long time that makes me beneath you lol.

replace fla fan and gator fan with race would you not be a racist? your discriminating against me for no better reason than skin color, religion or w/e

SR
03-09-2011, 09:20 PM
MY POINT EXACTLY, why would i stop rooting for the Gators because TT is a pro now and sell my soul only to denver for the rest of my life?

I dont live in a Pro town so what do you want from me? I have to root for a team NFL team somehow. the most logical way would be to follow a player there. how else am i going to have an emotional interest for one team over another?

Whats your point guys i dont see it. you cant understand how a college town fan can root for a team his favorate player goes to?

how does this make TT a bust or a fact less a fact or an opinon less worthy. this is where i get fascism from. because you were born in denver or been a denver fan for a long time that makes me beneath you lol.

replace fla fan and gator fan with race would you not be a racist? your discriminating against me for no better reason than skin color, religion or w/e

I have family ties to the Broncos. Some people here know about that. I could've been born in Djibouti and I'd still be a Bronco fan because that's my family heritage. I hate baseball, but the same family ties I have to the Broncos, I have to the Cinci Reds (see my adopted Bronco), so I root for the Reds.

You're from Gainesville, FL...what could have possibly driven you to be a Broncos fan before Tebow? For all anyone here knows, you're a Broncos fan because of Tebow and you're claiming you've always been a closet Broncos fan just to save face. That's how I take it.

And you trying to equate my opinion of your "fandom" to racism is ******* laughable.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 09:32 PM
I have family ties to the Broncos. Some people here know about that. I could've been born in Djibouti and I'd still be a Bronco fan because that's my family heritage. I hate baseball, but the same family ties I have to the Broncos, I have to the Cinci Reds (see my adopted Bronco), so I root for the Reds.

You're from Gainesville, FL...what could have possibly driven you to be a Broncos fan before Tebow? For all anyone here knows, you're a Broncos fan because of Tebow and you're claiming you've always been a closet Broncos fan just so save face. That's how I take it.

And you trying to equate my opinion of your "fandom" to racism is ******* laughable.

A) I have always been a DB fan but like a said with no emotional ties to denver why would I be a FANATIC until TT came to denver. Did i buy any DB gear? NO but i followed them and i really loved Elway at the time he was my prefered NFL QB anyways why does any of this matter?

B) I could give 2 shits weather you have any ties to the broncos, that holds no weight with me. all it tells me is why you are a bronco so what? Good for you, you want a cookie? SO WHAT IF TT IS THE ONLY REASON IM HERE lol your are to thick to understand what im trying to get through to you SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I followed TT here what? what?? Explain to me why thats bad.

C) why is it laughable? one is discrimination on skin color the other is discrimination on team colors. I can understand if i was a Raider fan because being a fan thats the whole point.. but my team isnt even in the same league.. its not a rival. say what you want its still discrimination.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 09:33 PM
Yea thats about right.. ill still root for DB but not against TT.. so what? is it a crime to be loyal to what you grew up with?

are you saying i SHOULDNT be loyal? thats ironic considering your professed loaylty to your team. DB will always have a special place in my heart, but it wont be first place ever.. UF will hold that place I really dont care if you dont like that.

Its not that I" don't like it". I couldn't care less. I just don't believe you and your" special place" in your heart. :coffee:
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 09:45 PM
Because you have no argument. You had no argument in your last post and I took the time to respond anyway.



So then why are QBs like Vick and Vince Young so successful even without the work ethic of a Tebow?




THis is why Peyton Manning has fewer champs than BigBen.. Brady was carried by his D too..
Huh?
PManning is on a team with no D for most of his career.
Pitt has won DESPITE rapersberger.
Brady wasn't drafted for his 40 time either.

And you're saying TT is better than all of them because he has changed how the position will be played?

All those words and you end with that?

:lol:
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Bullgator
03-09-2011, 09:45 PM
Its not that I" don't like it". I couldn't care less. I just don't believe you and your" special place" in your heart. :coffee:
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ok so why is this important to me exactly? what you think im trying to endear myself to you lol.

idk care about you being a lifelong DB fan ad you shouldnt care whether i am or not.. the important thing is im here to root for the DB. and if TT is the reason why does that matter?

im not having 3 kids with you and then jumping ship if TT leaves denver... would you really care if you never saw me again? so whats the problem? If TT is a star we will be side by side and cheering on the DB and if hes not its no skin off your back if im here or not.(i will be if nothing more than to irk you RC =D)

some of you guys act like youve been buthurt by some fairweather fans, what do you care? they come and they go. and if my great sin in life is t be one of them i dont think you would lose sleep over it.

again i know why i have always liked the DB but i dont have to prove shit to anyone.

judge what i post on its merits and call me out when im BSing but have some class and dont do it beacuse you have "ties" to DB and im just a poor ol boy from FLA like some uppity bigot.

bcbronc
03-09-2011, 09:51 PM
OK in this one he downplays the size and speed factor as much as he can without being flat out disrespectful to the league.. he is asked about it at 54 seconds

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_uf/2011/03/give-tim-tebow-a-hand-for-espn-the-weekend-appearance-video.html

he only downplays size and speed in relation to anticipation and match-ups. Put size, speed, anticipation and match-ups all together (because they are all together when it comes time to play the game) and what do you get?

okay, here's a question for you: You're a big college ball buff, what's the best SEC defense you've seen? Preferably from the Tebow era, but doesn't have to be. Now, how many players from that unit that saw regular PT made it to the NFL?

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 09:59 PM
Ok it wasnt my post you responded too.. lol even when you are trying to limit your posts to eliminate boboery you still fail.

Get it all out RC not much time left.. the end is near

So why interject into a discussion?

Talk about fail.

You/macgruber related?
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 10:05 PM
you are so overplaying the physical aspect in the NFL over the SEC

Tebow himself has stated over and over that the players are not faster and bigger but its the level of anticipation that is superior due to the xperience of play.

Tebow is a beast in any league physically
I remember when y'all lost Spurrier.....the 'best, most innovative coach ever to grace the sport'.
So...how'd that work out for him in Washington.
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 10:09 PM
True, but we will never know what TT would have done with 16 games either.. dont forget who beat who when they played head to head. In fact TT beat Cuttler and Stafford as well.

OMG!
OU was pounding the dog shit out of TT. He looked 85yrs old. Percy Harvin was the reason.
And, LMAO.......you're gonna brag about beating Vandy???
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Bullgator
03-09-2011, 10:12 PM
he only downplays size and speed in relation to anticipation and match-ups. Put size, speed, anticipation and match-ups all together (because they are all together when it comes time to play the game) and what do you get?

okay, here's a question for you: You're a big college ball buff, what's the best SEC defense you've seen? Preferably from the Tebow era, but doesn't have to be. Now, how many players from that unit that saw regular PT made it to the NFL?

Rolando McClain #55 LB
Javier Arenas #21 CB
DeMeco Ryans #59 LB
Ramzee Robinson CB
Charlie Peprah #26 S
Anthony Madison #37 CB
Marquis Johnson #25 CB
Rashad Johnson #49 S
Jarret Johnson #95 LB
Kareem Jackson #25 CB
Roman Harper #41 S
Wallace Gilberry #92 DE
Brandon Deaderick #71 DT
Jeremy Clark #63 DE
Terrence Cody #62 DT
Anthony Bryant #76 DT
Mark Anderson #96 DE

All from 1 School Alabama and MOST in TT era roman harper being the only 1 above 6 years.. only a couple at 6 years and all the rest in the TT era...they all have PT currently

I COULD DO THE OTHER 11 SCHOOLS BUT THAT WOULD BE TOO MUCH WORK.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 10:14 PM
Use words you didn't hear on the O'Reilly Factor, please.hey.....I gotsta learn em somewhere!
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Bullgator
03-09-2011, 10:18 PM
OMG!
OU was pounding the dog shit out of TT. He looked 85yrs old. Percy Harvin was the reason.
And, LMAO.......you're gonna brag about beating Vandy???
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OU was pounding TT what? what game were you watching you dont remember the last 2 drives that put the nail in the coffin? it was alot like the Houston game, TT just decided to take over and got every first down marched down and won the game... your hating is weak RC

PS if you want HULU has that game on for free go back and watch your futur QB own sam i am in person.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 10:20 PM
MY POINT EXACTLY, why would i stop rooting for the Gators because TT is a pro now and sell my soul only to denver for the rest of my life?

I dont live in a Pro town so what do you want from me? I have to root for a team NFL team somehow. the most logical way would be to follow a player there. how else am i going to have an emotional interest for one team over another?

Whats your point guys i dont see it. you cant understand how a college town fan can root for a team his favorate player goes to?

how does this make TT a bust or a fact less a fact or an opinon less worthy. this is where i get fascism from. because you were born in denver or been a denver fan for a long time that makes me beneath you lol.

replace fla fan and gator fan with race would you not be a racist? your discriminating against me for no better reason than skin color, religion or w/e

Since you're going nowhere relevant with your tactless charges, I'll just point out one of your" boboeries".....

Like you saying youve been a long time DB fan, when above, you clearly intimate you simply followed your fav playah.

Woops
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 10:26 PM
ok so why is this important to me exactly? what you think im trying to endear myself to you lol.

idk care about you being a lifelong DB fan ad you shouldnt care whether i am or not.. the important thing is im here to root for the DB. and if TT is the reason why does that matter?

im not having 3 kids with you and then jumping ship if TT leaves denver... would you really care if you never saw me again? so whats the problem? If TT is a star we will be side by side and cheering on the DB and if hes not its no skin off your back if im here or not.(i will be if nothing more than to irk you RC =D)

some of you guys act like youve been buthurt by some fairweather fans, what do you care? they come and they go. and if my great sin in life is t be one of them i dont think you would lose sleep over it.

again i know why i have always liked the DB but i dont have to prove shit to anyone.

judge what i post on its merits and call me out when im BSing but have some class and dont do it beacuse you have "ties" to DB and im just a poor ol boy from FLA like some uppity bigot.

I'm not the one with the family ties. (So much for your calling me out for my same error)

And make up your mind.

You're lying so much now, I don't think even you know the truth.

TT wouldn't lie.

Looks to me like you have an inferiority complex about floridians.
They have meds for that.
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KCL
03-09-2011, 10:27 PM
Since you're going nowhere relevant with your tactless charges, I'll just point out one of your" boboeries".....

Like you saying youve been a long time DB fan, when above, you clearly intimate you simply followed your fav playah.

Woops
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LOL...Good catch rc....too funny.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 10:28 PM
Since you're going nowhere relevant with your tactless charges, I'll just point out one of your" boboeries".....

Like you saying youve been a long time DB fan, when above, you clearly intimate you simply followed your fav playah.

Woops
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what? its not either or momo its BOTH

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 10:32 PM
he only downplays size and speed in relation to anticipation and match-ups. Put size, speed, anticipation and match-ups all together (because they are all together when it comes time to play the game) and what do you get?

okay, here's a question for you: You're a big college ball buff, what's the best SEC defense you've seen? Preferably from the Tebow era, but doesn't have to be. Now, how many players from that unit that saw regular PT made it to the NFL?

did you see my list i put up BCB?

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 10:33 PM
what? its not either or momo its BOTH
Wh...

Ugh.

:tsk:
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hamrob
03-09-2011, 10:37 PM
He is a nice kid. I hope he fails miserably, or Absolutley shines. I dont want to wallow in mediocraty for 3 years giving him time to develop.So, what's the alternative? Kyle Orton....oh, boy!

Yeah...KO isn't the definition of mediocracy? Is he.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 10:43 PM
Wh...

Ugh.

:tsk:
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I see you are befuddled... :elefant:

Bring out the cakes and baloons! lets make it a national holiday! RC is speechless! :beer:

lol <3

KCL
03-09-2011, 10:49 PM
I see you are befuddled... :elefant:

Bring out the cakes and baloons! lets make it a national holiday! RC is speechless! :beer:

lol <3

He isn't speechless...he just has his mouth full..:lol:
don't ask of what.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 10:52 PM
He isn't speechless...he just has his mouth full..:lol:
don't ask of what.

lawl dont worry I wont ask... oh the mental images im fighting to keep out of my head.

hamrob
03-09-2011, 10:58 PM
I have to echo Iron Mike's comment's:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/09/mike-ditka-loves-cam-newton-and-tim-tebow-but-apparently-not-jay-cutler/

Ditka feels the same way about last year’s most scrutinized quarterback prospect entering the draft, Tim Tebow.

‘‘People talk about the combine, about body fat, 40 times, bench presses, how high you can jump. That’s great, but how do you measure heart?” Ditka said.

‘‘People talk about Tim Tebow like he can’t do this or he doesn’t have this throwing skill. But all that matters is can he lead you from Point A to Point B. I like him. You cannot coach character. You cannot coach leadership.’’

KCL
03-09-2011, 10:59 PM
lawl dont worry I wont ask... oh the mental images im fighting to keep out of my head.

nothing like bad...like I think he was eating when he made that post.

just messing with you rc...you know how I like to kid around and sometimes am taken serious when I shouldn't be.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 11:03 PM
nothing like bad...like I think he was eating when he made that post.

just messing with you rc...you know how I like to kid around and sometimes am taken serious when I shouldn't be.

KCL if RC got mad at you then who would he have left? Have no fear, focus on your common enemy(me) and nothing divide you dear lady!

KCL
03-09-2011, 11:12 PM
KCL if RC got mad at you then who would he have left? Have no fear, focus on your common enemy(me) and nothing divide you dear lady!

rc doesn't need me..I am a fan of a west rival...no

common enemy between us.

BORDERLINE
03-09-2011, 11:17 PM
I don't really care if TT followers from FLA present themselves as Hardcore Broncos fans. As long as you cheer for the Broncos to win your OK in my book...

I will say this though when we do make it back to the top I will know and they would know that the TRUE Broncos fan deserves it MORE.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 11:21 PM
rc doesn't need me..I am a fan of a west rival...no

common enemy between us.

Which brings me to a question I been wondering a while now... whycome you hange out here? Being a rival n all Just curious.

bcbronc
03-09-2011, 11:50 PM
All from 1 School Alabama and MOST in TT era roman harper being the only 1 above 6 years.. only a couple at 6 years and all the rest in the TT era...they all have PT currently


okay, Bg, you either misunderstood me...or you're trying to pull a fast one on me cuz I'm a Canuck. :canada:

I don't want to know which school puts the most defensive players in the NFL, I want to know which defense was the best Tebow had to play. In other words, which SEC defense do you see as the SEC equivalent of the 2001 Ravens or the 2003 Bucs. Preferably in the Tebow years, but if not, at least somewhat recently.

now, on that team, how many players getting regular playing time made it to the NFL from that ONE season. so if there's a guy red-shirted that goes on to be a stud, he doesn't count. Either does a guy that didn't see the field much on defense but was on the roster, if it can be determined.

doesn't really matter now though, we can go by your list. You listed 17 players from Alabama over about 6 years. Obviously not all 17 were on the field together. and a freshman isn't going to be at the same level as a senior, or even a junior in most cases.

so if we're generous and say Alabama had 6 of those guys as either juniors or seniors in the same year all playing together on one defense, that would be considered a stacked college defense, right? so then of course the rest of the guys Tebow would be facing are not NFL calibre, never will be. Same with all the back-ups, save maybe a couple freshies or sophomores that were good players.

this is my point, and I really doubt I had to spell it out to you. In any given college game, MOST of the starters aren't going to play in the NFL. And of the guys in that game that do go on to the pros, at least some of them are going to be young pups. It's really just silly to say that any college defense is comparable to even an average NFL defense (I'd say even the worst NFL defenses, but I'm not convinced Denver's 2008 defense could have stopped a Div II offense).

JPPT1974
03-10-2011, 12:00 AM
Give Tebow a chance. As hopefully he will quiet the criticism down.

Bullgator
03-10-2011, 12:06 AM
okay, Bg, you either misunderstood me...or you're trying to pull a fast one on me cuz I'm a Canuck. :canada:

I don't want to know which school puts the most defensive players in the NFL, I want to know which defense was the best Tebow had to play. In other words, which SEC defense do you see as the SEC equivalent of the 2001 Ravens or the 2003 Bucs. Preferably in the Tebow years, but if not, at least somewhat recently.

now, on that team, how many players getting regular playing time made it to the NFL from that ONE season. so if there's a guy red-shirted that goes on to be a stud, he doesn't count. Either does a guy that didn't see the field much on defense but was on the roster, if it can be determined.

doesn't really matter now though, we can go by your list. You listed 17 players from Alabama over about 6 years. Obviously not all 17 were on the field together. and a freshman isn't going to be at the same level as a senior, or even a junior in most cases.

so if we're generous and say Alabama had 6 of those guys as either juniors or seniors in the same year all playing together on one defense, that would be considered a stacked college defense, right? so then of course the rest of the guys Tebow would be facing are not NFL calibre, never will be. Same with all the back-ups, save maybe a couple freshies or sophomores that were good players.

this is my point, and I really doubt I had to spell it out to you. In any given college game, MOST of the starters aren't going to play in the NFL. And of the guys in that game that do go on to the pros, at least some of them are going to be young pups. It's really just silly to say that any college defense is comparable to even an average NFL defense (I'd say even the worst NFL defenses, but I'm not convinced Denver's 2008 defense could have stopped a Div II offense).

My point is TT played well and imposed his will whether it was against Patrick Willis, Eric Berry, Rolondo McClain, Javier Arenas ect ect ect... these guys are pro bowl players and TT passed over them/ran over them all the same..

was every single player thier caliber? no but when he DID face them he had no issues. You watched him play as a pro for three games... did he look like he didnt belong on the same feild? NFL players arent hatched, they are drafted.

To say his college career is NO indication on how he will play at the NFL level is silly. He clearly played against some pro bowl talent in the SEC.

By your own admission even the worst D in the NFL cant be compaired to college... OK so talk to me about how he played against the Houston D? That has to impress you a little bit.

bcbronc
03-10-2011, 12:50 AM
My point is TT played well and imposed his will whether it was against Patrick Willis, Eric Berry, Rolondo McClain, Javier Arenas ect ect ect... these guys are pro bowl players and TT passed over them/ran over them all the same..

was every single player thier caliber? no but when he DID face them he had no issues. You watched him play as a pro for three games... did he look like he didnt belong on the same feild? NFL players arent hatched, they are drafted.

To say his college career is NO indication on how he will play at the NFL level is silly. He clearly played against some pro bowl talent in the SEC.

By your own admission even the worst D in the NFL cant be compaired to college... OK so talk to me about how he played against the Houston D? That has to impress you a little bit.

sure, I definitely feel better about Tebow's chances than I did leading up to the draft (but of course leading up to the draft I thought Tebow had 0 chance of being a real nfl QB). I've said a few times already that if nothing else Tebow has proven he can be an effective red zone weapon. And as you're no doubt well aware, being a long time DB fan and all ( :listen: ), the Broncos red zone offense has been insipid for far too long. Even if Tebow never becomes an every down NFL QB, having a guy that can finish drives is nothing to sneeze at.

one thing to remember, HOU, OAK, SD and DEN were all eliminated from the playoffs when Tebow played. He's yet to start a meaningful game. He did some nice things, and he's given reason for hope, but he has a long way to go. He's just not the guaranteed success you say he is.

if you bring your expectations down to match the realities, you'd be a lot easier to engage in discussion. I mean the stats you're predicting are Doug Flutie in the CFL type stats and they're just not going to happen. ever. by anyone.

other than that, welcome to Bronco nation. I guess. :tsk:

:beer:

Bullgator
03-10-2011, 02:20 AM
sure, I definitely feel better about Tebow's chances than I did leading up to the draft (but of course leading up to the draft I thought Tebow had 0 chance of being a real nfl QB). I've said a few times already that if nothing else Tebow has proven he can be an effective red zone weapon. And as you're no doubt well aware, being a long time DB fan and all ( :listen: ), the Broncos red zone offense has been insipid for far too long. Even if Tebow never becomes an every down NFL QB, having a guy that can finish drives is nothing to sneeze at.

one thing to remember, HOU, OAK, SD and DEN were all eliminated from the playoffs when Tebow played. He's yet to start a meaningful game. He did some nice things, and he's given reason for hope, but he has a long way to go. He's just not the guaranteed success you say he is.

if you bring your expectations down to match the realities, you'd be a lot easier to engage in discussion. I mean the stats you're predicting are Doug Flutie in the CFL type stats and they're just not going to happen. ever. by anyone.

other than that, welcome to Bronco nation. I guess. :tsk:

:beer:

well thats cool of you to say man.

Yes I am well aware of the redzone woes. Teebz is a breath of fresh air in that dept.

My expectations are sky high. Dont let it annoy you, Ill be the one who would be disappointed if he doesnt meet em. I will say I beleive with all my heart he will be unstoppable. Not just a success but from what I have seen I really think he will be the greatest player ever. Again I know how that sounds lol and dont let it annoy you.

Time will tell.

SR
03-10-2011, 09:30 AM
A) I have always been a DB fan but like a said with no emotional ties to denver why would I be a FANATIC until TT came to denver. Did i buy any DB gear? NO but i followed them and i really loved Elway at the time he was my prefered NFL QB anyways why does any of this matter?

B) I could give 2 shits weather you have any ties to the broncos, that holds no weight with me. all it tells me is why you are a bronco so what? Good for you, you want a cookie? SO WHAT IF TT IS THE ONLY REASON IM HERE lol your are to thick to understand what im trying to get through to you SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I followed TT here what? what?? Explain to me why thats bad.

C) why is it laughable? one is discrimination on skin color the other is discrimination on team colors. I can understand if i was a Raider fan because being a fan thats the whole point.. but my team isnt even in the same league.. its not a rival. say what you want its still discrimination.

What a joke.

vandammage13
03-10-2011, 10:31 AM
NFL watches their team. You watch your college team, and then watch your Florida players over NFL teams.

You are a college fan that watches your florida boyz. Thats not an NFL fan.

Newsflash, Rav....

CFB plays on Saturdays.

NFL plays on Sundays.

It is possible to watch and be a fan of both.

:coffee:

SR
03-10-2011, 10:33 AM
That's not the point he was making, genius.

claymore
03-10-2011, 11:12 AM
What day does Arena play? Cause thats what the Tebow fans will be watching in 3 years.

SR
03-10-2011, 11:13 AM
What day does Arena play? Cause thats what the Tebow fans will be watching in 3 years.

Or CFL. Some of you better find a way to tune in to CBC and TSN so you can watch that.

Bullgator
03-10-2011, 03:06 PM
CFL?

For your own sakes, it would be better to personally attack me... you have my permission.

Because attcking TT will only make you look like a riiitard in the end. just because you hate his followers, dont make yourself look like a fool when TT is the mac daddy around here.

if im a dooshy mcdoogle what does that have to do with TT blowing up the NFL. IF that happens you wanna say, "sure his fans realy sucked bad, but I wasnt fooled by their dooshery, I knew the kid was speacial!"

see there... that way you can have your cake and eat it too... carry on

SR
03-10-2011, 03:07 PM
Know your role.

Bullgator
03-10-2011, 03:24 PM
Know your role.

lol what?

SR
03-10-2011, 03:28 PM
lol what?

I don't know.