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View Full Version : The running game, the defense and Ryan Torain



atwater27
10-02-2008, 10:54 PM
I know we are 3-1, but just as well could be 1-3. That aside, we have a pretty clear picture of our offense and our defense so far, but one thing is confounding me...

Our running game has been successful but hardly used. i don't understand how, with such a leaky defense, that we don't try to control the clock more. Are we worried we will stall on 3rd down and let the other team's offense take advantage? Is it because Shanahan is unsure of Young/Hall/Pittman, who in my opinion have been collectively tearing it up so far? Or is he waiting for Ryan Torain to come back?

It's pretty weird to watch the gunslinging and the lack of commitment to the run. Just bizarre.

Anyways, i am wondering if all the preseason lip service about Torain by Shanny is true. Does he really think he is as good as TD? Do any of you have any insight into Torain and if you think he will take over Denver's running game and perhaps turn us into more balanced run/pass team?

Bronco9798
10-02-2008, 11:12 PM
I don't think Selvin is running as good as his average. Too few carries to get a get understanding of how effective he has been. I have seen every game and he's not done as well as I expected. Is Shanny giving the running game a true test or is he just that confident in the passing game. It's fun to watch, but I'd rather control the game with a running threat. Well, then again, with that horrendous, putrid, in mouth vomitation of a defense, how can you control a game when your defense is spending all it's time on the field. Good question. I think we're all stumped to a point. Weird start so far.

In all reality we should probably be 2-2 at best. 3-1 will keep everything quiet for a bit until 3-1 turns into 3-3. 3-1 will make everybody think we are better than what we really are. Who knows. I'm still trying to make sense of all of it so far. I don't think we're as good as our 3-1 record. But as long as we find a way to win, everything is good. Maybe? I give up. See what happens this week.

omac
10-03-2008, 12:59 AM
I know we are 3-1, but just as well could be 1-3. That aside, we have a pretty clear picture of our offense and our defense so far, but one thing is confounding me...

I don't put too much weight on could'ves and should'ves. Teams get breaks in different parts of the game; ours just happened to be in the end. Also, against SD and NO, there were parts of the game where we looked pretty dominant against them, until we let them back in, whether through a kick return TD, or a "prevent" :D defense and conservative offense.

No matter, both teams had a chance to win, and they lost. With NO, even if they did make that FG, there was enough time to make one of our own, thanks to DJ's tackle behind their LOS.


Our running game has been successful but hardly used. i don't understand how, with such a leaky defense, that we don't try to control the clock more. Are we worried we will stall on 3rd down and let the other team's offense take advantage? Is it because Shanahan is unsure of Young/Hall/Pittman, who in my opinion have been collectively tearing it up so far? Or is he waiting for Ryan Torain to come back?

It's pretty weird to watch the gunslinging and the lack of commitment to the run. Just bizarre.

Well, that's just it; our running game just isn't that good. It gets it's opportunities from the passing offense opening things up for them. Whenever we've tried to go conservative with the lead and burn some clock running the ball, our drives have stalled, usually in the 3rd quarter.

I'm not so sure if it's the OL that isn't run blocking very well, or the RBs, or both. Used to be that teams knew the Broncos were going to run, but they still had a tough time stopping them. Now, we need the pass to open up the run.

Sometimes, Young looks good and Hall looks bad; sometimes, it's the other way around. Pittman's been solid on goal-line.


Anyways, i am wondering if all the preseason lip service about Torain by Shanny is true. Does he really think he is as good as TD? Do any of you have any insight into Torain and if you think he will take over Denver's running game and perhaps turn us into more balanced run/pass team?

That's tough to call. One promising note is that he highly touted the rookie Royal, and most posters here were thinking it was just bs, but it turned out to be truth. I didn't like that he got injured in camp when someone landed on him; he'll be landed on a lot. :D

Shazam!
10-03-2008, 02:25 AM
This could work to Denver's possible advantage. A team prepares for Jay and Co. to try to light it up, but then they go Run first.

Nothing on the O concerns me too much. Granted they had a horrendous day, but I'm not shocked they lost somewhere they typically do. They'll learn from their mistakes. It's the 'horrendous, putrid, in mouth vomitation of a defense' as 9798 said (and perfectly summed up) that is this team's main problem.

NightTrainLayne
10-03-2008, 09:15 AM
Call me crazy, but I'd like to see Pittman get the ball a few more times on 1st down and see what he does with it. He's had very few negative carries, and a lot of them have come in obvious run situations.

What could it hurt to give it a try?

I think a lot of it is Bates calling the plays. He's the passing game coordinator. It goes back to that adage, "Show a carpenter a nail, and he'll grab his hammer." Bates calls the plays based on his part of the gameplan. How else do you explain the "fancy" reverse to Marshall last week that caused a fumble. That's not really a running play and we've done a lot of that kind of thing in critical 3rd down situations in several games this season.

Hopefully, as Bates gets more experience, he will be able to learn from it and moderate his pass-first mentality with some more running. . .more effective running.

Thnikkaman
10-03-2008, 09:37 AM
I too would like to see Pittman run more. I think he would be the guy if he was able to get into a groove. If he gets tired, go with Hall and Young, but Pittman is the one downhill RB on this offense.

Mike
10-03-2008, 09:39 AM
I agree. Pittman has looked the most solid of any of the backs and I would like to see what he can do with it on early downs.

He is more decisive and then pounds it. He doesn't have speed, but his ability to make a decision and then lower his shoulder has made him more effective than Hall or Young so far.

underrated29
10-03-2008, 09:52 AM
here is the thing guys, I am kinda surprised no one has said much about it either.


You do not waste a roster spot for 9 GAMES. Thats almost 3/4ths of the season unless you absolutely think the person you are saving it for can dominate!!!!!

Ryan Must be that good of a player because we could have IR'd him and kept mckinely on the roster....

Thnikkaman
10-03-2008, 09:58 AM
here is the thing guys, I am kinda surprised no one has said much about it either.


You do not waste a roster spot for 9 GAMES. Thats almost 3/4ths of the season unless you absolutely think the person you are saving it for can dominate!!!!!

Ryan Must be that good of a player because we could have IR'd him and kept mckinely on the roster....

I have him on IR in my money league as well.

DenBronx
10-03-2008, 12:06 PM
why try and control the clock when your offense can put up 38 points on average through 3 games??? we have the ability to be that team that gets ahead by alot and forces other teams to forsake their game plans. now they have to play catch up and pass on almost every down. if we can get up by 3 touchdowns against tampa, then i suspect you will see griese throwing alot.

make them one demensional and get pressure on the qb and we will start to put teams away.

atwater27
10-03-2008, 12:10 PM
why try and control the clock when your offense can put up 38 points on average through 3 games??? we have the ability to be that team that gets ahead by alot and forces other teams to forsake their game plans. now they have to play catch up and pass on almost every down. if we can get up by 3 touchdowns against tampa, then i suspect you will see griese throwing alot.

make them one demensional and get pressure on the qb and we will start to put teams away.

It doesn't work! The only defense worse than the one we are shredding on Sundays is our own! An come playoff time, those 40 to 38 shootouts don't fly against the best defenses.

Thnikkaman
10-03-2008, 12:15 PM
Here is the thing, our safeties have only played 4 games together (not including preseason). Yes, we have given up some big plays. I still think we need some time to Gel. That and Slowick needs to get his head out of his ass.

Broncolingus
10-03-2008, 12:15 PM
...make them one demensional and get pressure on the qb and we will start to put teams away.

...I think that's been the problem for a number of years now for Denver whether or not they have a lead.

LRtagger
10-03-2008, 12:20 PM
I think it has more to do with our OL and their lack of ZB experience then it does who we have in the backfield.

I think we will see more of the run as the season goes on....at least I hope so

DenBronx
10-03-2008, 12:35 PM
I think it has more to do with our OL and their lack of ZB experience then it does who we have in the backfield.

I think we will see more of the run as the season goes on....at least I hope so

agreed, maybe shanny doesnt like what he see's so far in the run blocking. but how can anyone deny the success of the passing game. it's almost like a few of you are saying dont put up tons of points from the passing game but put up only a few from the run game. doesnt make sense. it falls on the defense either way you look at it. do we control the clock the whole game by sending out 60%-70% run plays? we would be a big trouble. this offense isnt set up like that anymore. im glad we have wr's and a te that could go the distance on any play. id rather see us score....and alot!

Bronco9798
10-03-2008, 12:44 PM
why try and control the clock when your offense can put up 38 points on average through 3 games??? we have the ability to be that team that gets ahead by alot and forces other teams to forsake their game plans. now they have to play catch up and pass on almost every down. if we can get up by 3 touchdowns against tampa, then i suspect you will see griese throwing alot.

make them one demensional and get pressure on the qb and we will start to put teams away.

We had big leads on San Diego and New Orleans. It doesn't work. If we establish those leads then have a RB who control the clock you won't see those leads evaporate like they have. The defense has to stop people on 3rd down and then let the offense control the clock and score at the end of a long sustained drive. Throwing is great early on but you need to pound the ball in the 3rd and 4th quarter and eat clock.

You pass to score points..

You run the ball to win!!

Thnikkaman
10-03-2008, 12:47 PM
You play to win the game!!!

Denver27og
10-03-2008, 01:30 PM
anyone have any more info on this kid Ryan torrain?

underrated29
10-03-2008, 01:44 PM
nope, but i promise even without seeing him run that he will be a monster... my previous post covers mainly why- actions speak louder than words...

Also shanny said in his qb fan conference or whatever it is, that torain is special and "you will like him."

Sometimes you can just feel things- I am feeling he will be like a marshawn lynch to us, big, strong, fast, runs over people,vision, wont go down easily if at all.

I got the koolaid, but our offense is set- except we need a C and one more G.

DenBronx
10-03-2008, 01:47 PM
We had big leads on San Diego and New Orleans. It doesn't work. If we establish those leads then have a RB who control the clock you won't see those leads evaporate like they have. The defense has to stop people on 3rd down and then let the offense control the clock and score at the end of a long sustained drive. Throwing is great early on but you need to pound the ball in the 3rd and 4th quarter and eat clock.

You pass to score points..

You run the ball to win!!



yeah but you cant run the ball from the get go and for the whole game like some are suggesting. i agree about putting up points and then pounding the rock. but to keep their defense on their heels we need to throw the rock and throw it early. our offense was terrible last game so i wont blame the d but they do need to stop the run and find a way to create pressure on the qb. i think it was a huge wakeup call for us losing to the last place chiefs.

WARHORSE
10-03-2008, 02:31 PM
Bates is young. Hes still learning, and its showing. Just part of life for an NFL coach. Learn........you get better. Dont learn..........you get fired.:coffee:

omac
10-03-2008, 10:02 PM
Call me crazy, but I'd like to see Pittman get the ball a few more times on 1st down and see what he does with it. He's had very few negative carries, and a lot of them have come in obvious run situations.

What could it hurt to give it a try?

I think a lot of it is Bates calling the plays. He's the passing game coordinator. It goes back to that adage, "Show a carpenter a nail, and he'll grab his hammer." Bates calls the plays based on his part of the gameplan. How else do you explain the "fancy" reverse to Marshall last week that caused a fumble. That's not really a running play and we've done a lot of that kind of thing in critical 3rd down situations in several games this season.

Hopefully, as Bates gets more experience, he will be able to learn from it and moderate his pass-first mentality with some more running. . .more effective running.

Yeah, on 2nd and 2, we went with 2 consecutive pass plays. We could've used the 1st down ....

omac
10-03-2008, 10:05 PM
I agree. Pittman has looked the most solid of any of the backs and I would like to see what he can do with it on early downs.

He is more decisive and then pounds it. He doesn't have speed, but his ability to make a decision and then lower his shoulder has made him more effective than Hall or Young so far.

Yeah, even if he doesn't get at least 4 yards, that pounding could wear down the defense's line. It's the same tactic the Giants did last season, wearing down the defense with Jacobs, then using the speedy Bradshaw when their opponent's defense was tired.

gobroncsnv
10-03-2008, 10:16 PM
You almost wonder if Pittman knows he's gonna be limited in his yards per carry because he doesn't have the speed, so he lowers his head and gets the 4 - 6 yards, going for the more sure thing. Almost seems like Young and Hall want to hit a homer every time, or ???? I don't know, just sayin'... tell me where I'm wrong, but you don't see many speed merchants enjoy taking what the D gives.

jrelway
10-03-2008, 10:24 PM
seems to me the opposing defenses are so worried about our receiving threats, they forget about our rb's in pass plays..we need more swing plays to the flats. especially with a superb blocker like marshall, and graham.

omac
10-03-2008, 10:44 PM
You almost wonder if Pittman knows he's gonna be limited in his yards per carry because he doesn't have the speed, so he lowers his head and gets the 4 - 6 yards, going for the more sure thing. Almost seems like Young and Hall want to hit a homer every time, or ???? I don't know, just sayin'... tell me where I'm wrong, but you don't see many speed merchants enjoy taking what the D gives.

Another thing with Pittman is that he has good vision, too. He'll pound it in, but if he sees there's a clear lane outside, he takes it.

I think we don't use Pittman as much because our zone blocking usually stretches outside first, so Pittman's lack of speed will make that play less effective. But if he can get a sure 3 yards pounding the ball straight on, that's not a bad thing, specially if it wears down the defensive line.