Give the job to Tebow? (Poll)

[ydave77]

Just curious how many of you care if Tebow actually "wins" or earns the job in spring training, for him to be named starter.

My thought is that QB really is the central piece of any championship puzzle (apologies to Trent Dilfer). There is a reason the QB's in the super bowl are Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roeth, etc. They are the most important piece.

Orton's game is especially conducive to looking good in scrimmages, where as Tebows (extending the play, will show up in live fire). Furthermore, even if Orton is better at training camp, it doesnt mean he will be the better player at the end of the year. Giving Tebow live reps will help him improve, and we're not winning the SB next year regardless.

I would rather give the job to Tebow, as he has upside to be elite, where as Orton, does not. He has already has had one year to watch, and I think growing pains will only make him work harder, rather than stunt his growth.

And if he plays so badly, its obvious he is not NFL caliber, then at least we know now, and can look for a franchise QB the following year.

[rcsodak]

What if quinn beats out TT after KO is traded?
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[underrated29]

Now I want to say who ever wins in competition but I am not going to for these reasons.

1. Lets say we put TT in as starter and he just blows jamarcus balls. Then we bench him and put in orton and orton looks good. I not only think it will be really bad for TT but also really bad for the team. (not that TT will care because I am sure he will work hard enough to get the job back but still...


2. The team 100% rallied behind TT. Even a Blind man could see this. There was a major spark and major life with him at QB. Since our team is starting fresh this year. With a gigantic weight lifted off our shoulders (mcdaniels). Things need to start positive.
New coach with confidence, New Elway in FO, New draft and DL fix (i pray), and TT at QB.....That are a lot of things to build on and keep the good energy going. Its new, its good and it is the future. It is time!


that is why I would say TT. Because I believe that if we do start him we will be better off.

[dogfish]

What if quinn beats out TT after KO is traded?
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:spit:


:rofl:



:pound:

[UnderArmour]

Trade Orton start Tebow. It really is that simple if a new CBA is passed. Hell, trade Quinn too if we can get a 3rd or 4th(more realistic) for him.

[Bullgator]

What if quinn beats out TT after KO is traded?
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Thats has a bigger chance of happeing than KO sticking around.

To be truthful IDT KO wants to stick around denver with TT breathing down his neck. It would be much better to be a starting QB for a possible playoff team that he would be the starter no question.

Us fans will argue for what we want but what about what KO wants? I bet he wants out.

[KCL]

I bet no poll is even needed....:D
bet everyone that post here already knows who they want as the starter.
Bronco fans I mean.

[jhns]

I say Tebow should start. It shouldn't be given to him though. Good thing he has already proven he is better than Orton during real games last season. He should have the spot that he has already earned.

[topscribe]

I bet no poll is even needed....:D
bet everyone that post here already knows who they want as the starter.
Bronco fans I mean.

I guess competition must be a thing of the past.

After all, that's not what football is all about, right? :coffee:


P.S. I'm glad Tebow and Orton are not as afraid of the competition as apparently
are many people on this board. That is all.

-----

[jhildebrand]

I would rather give the job to Tebow

Me too! I love how all these Orton-ites cry about Tebow needing to win the very job that was simply handed to Orton. Double standard much?

For me it is quite simple, give Tebow the job. He finished the season with it. We saw better offensive output. We saw the team respond to him-the WHOLE team.

Ultimately, I would rather go into the season knowing who our QB is. I definitely think it helps!

Besides, we know what Orton's best looks like and it isn't very good. I don't want to have a season where people feel Orton 'beats' Tebow out for the job only for him to continue to suck it up all over the field and change QB's mid season again. It just doesn't do anything towards rebuilding!

Finally, I saw Orton QUIT in the KC and AZ games. That was enough for me to never want to see him as a Broncos QB again.

[jhildebrand]

Also, if Fox has a heavy run offense, Tebow's quirks and limitations are only reduced.

[jhildebrand]

I guess competition must be a thing of the past.

After all, that's not what football is all about, right? :coffee:

-----

A. There was enough "competition" last year. Orton quit against KC and AZ in back to back games. The team seemed just as willing to go along with it until Tebow took matters into his hands.

B. Orton took how many weeks to get an opening drive TD vs Tebow?

C. Green Bay had no problem handing the reigns to Rodgers and telling Favre to pound sand. I think things worked out ok for them ;)

In today's NFL it is about having a vision and building towards that vision and implementing it immediately. The days of trying different guys out are gone and have been.

[dogfish]

Me too! I love how all these Orton-ites cry about Tebow needing to win the very job that was simply handed to Orton. Double standard much?



"all" these ortonites?

that's a bit dramatic. . . since when do top and RC count as "all?"


gah, can't wait 'til we trade orton and this lifeless non-topic vanishes from the board. . . no free agency this year is making the off-season even more unbearable than usual. . .

[rcsodak]

I say Tebow should start. It shouldn't be given to him though. Good thing he has already proven he is better than Orton during real games last season. He should have the spot that he has already earned.
Wow...again with the" proving". Did I miss some games?
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[jhns]

Wow...again with the" proving". Did I miss some games?
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You must have.

[KCL]

Hey look at this way guys...if McD would have gotten who he really wanted...there would have been no Tebow on the team..so in hindsight..you should be thankful for Orton...;)

[jhildebrand]

"all" these ortonites?

that's a bit dramatic. . . since when do top and RC count as "all?"


gah, can't wait 'til we trade orton and this lifeless non-topic vanishes from the board. . . no free agency this year is making the off-season even more unbearable than usual. . .

There are plenty on these boards and elsewhere that are more than ardent supporters of Orton. Dramatic? Maybe. Ieatstaples is another that comes to mind.

As for your last statement, I couldn't agree more.

[BroncoWave]

While I think Tebow should be the starter, I don't think he wants the job just handed to him. I think he loves the competition and would rather compete for it and win it instead of have it handed to him.

[jhildebrand]

If Orton isn't the answer long term, why bother? :confused: I think there is a large enough sample w/ Orton as QB to discern that he probably isn't the answer.

Is Tebow the answer? I don't know. I have my reservations but in the end I just haven't seen enough.

I would rather the guy start an entire 16 game schedule, health willing, to find out. If he isn't the answer long term it will be apparent and the team will probably be in the running for Andrew Luck.

[NightTerror218]

Just curious how many of you care if Tebow actually "wins" or earns the job in spring training, for him to be named starter.

My thought is that QB really is the central piece of any championship puzzle (apologies to Trent Dilfer). There is a reason the QB's in the super bowl are Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roeth, etc. They are the most important piece.

Orton's game is especially conducive to looking good in scrimmages, where as Tebows (extending the play, will show up in live fire). Furthermore, even if Orton is better at training camp, it doesnt mean he will be the better player at the end of the year. Giving Tebow live reps will help him improve, and we're not winning the SB next year regardless.

I would rather give the job to Tebow, as he has upside to be elite, where as Orton, does not. He has already has had one year to watch, and I think growing pains will only make him work harder, rather than stunt his growth.

And if he plays so badly, its obvious he is not NFL caliber, then at least we know now, and can look for a franchise QB the following year.


I know TT has great confidence but winning the job would boost it even more and the team would prob look up to him more, then given the job

[TXBRONC]

Thats has a bigger chance of happeing than KO sticking around.

I seriously doubt it. Quinn is not a very good quarterback.

[PAINTERDAVE]

"all" these ortonites?

that's a bit dramatic. . . since when do top and RC count as "all?"


gah, can't wait 'til we trade orton and this lifeless non-topic vanishes from the board. . . no free agency this year is making the off-season even more unbearable than usual. . .

Gotta throw Clay in there... he intensly dislikes Tebow...
wait.. he still probably doesn't like Orton, though...

so there needs to be a new category...
instead of Ortonites....
Anti-Tebownians?

LOL:lol:

[PAINTERDAVE]

Trade the cancer... start the cure.

[arapaho2]

starting orton for the season does nothing for us...do we honestly think were gonna be superbowl contenders?

we know what orton brings...a play it safe qb that seldom takes chances....a guy who for his career seems unspectacular in the pressure downs or with the game on the line...servicable for sure, but not what you build around

starting tebow allows the front office to watch his maturation throughout the year....we get to see what he's got...is he the future....can he continue to improve on the mechanics... do we see a franchise qb?....or not

if we do....then it gives him his first year starting, along with alot of the growing pains associated with young qbs...in a stretch when we are rebuilding a franchise...he grows with the team and we build around him...

if he's not the guy ...if he shows little improvemnt....cant grasp the whole nfl qb gig....then it allows us to posture for the andrew luck sweepstakes

starting tebow is the right thing to do...after orton is traded :lol:

[weazel]

had to take Orton.... you're all sheeple! lol

[HORSEPOWER 56]

One needs to stay, one needs to get traded for something of value. If you have 2 potential starting QBs, you really have none. Right now, I don't think there's a huge difference between the two other than the fact that we spent a lot more (draft wise) to acquire Tebow and he's under a long-term deal, while Orton is more expensive and on a short term deal.

Neither guy is a "franchise" QB right now. This isn't like Rodgers sitting behind the Legend Favre or Rivers sitting behind a pro-bowler in Brees. I'd prefer to see what Tebow has to offer for 16 games and trade Orton, but I'd really just be happy to have all of this BS over with. Tebow is younger and a better athlete so I have more hope he will develop into something special, but right now both guys are a ?

I can say this, neither will put up anywhere near the #s they did in this past year in McDaniels' pass first offense in Fox's offense. Orton won't be anywhere close to leading the league in passing and probably will be closer to 200 yds passing a game than 300. Either QB should be more protected and more effective when the running game gets better - which it will under Fox who will actually commit to it.

I guess my answer is, I'd rather have Tebow based on his potential and the value that Orton might bring in trade. I can't use the whole "whoever wins in camp" because camp isn't real. QBs don't have to avoid real sacks, don't get knocked around and aren't facing real bullets. Other positions, sure. QB's are really just human juggs machines in camp.

[KCL]

Gotta throw Clay in there... he intensly dislikes Tebow...
wait.. he still probably doesn't like Orton, though...

so there needs to be a new category...
instead of Ortonites....
Anti-Tebownians?

LOL:lol:

clay is in a class all his own...there is no other like him on this
board...:D

[I Eat Staples]

Trade Orton start Tebow. It really is that simple if a new CBA is passed. Hell, trade Quinn too if we can get a 3rd or 4th(more realistic) for him.

Quinn's value is about as much as yours or mine. We won't be getting any pick for him, let alone a 3rd or 4th. That's insane.

[Northman]

We're rebuilding, Tebow should be given the start so when all the pieces are in place he will be ready and have the necessary experience. It didnt hurt Manning or Brady to start and they turned out just fine.

[dogfish]

But as Mike Klis of the Denver Post points out, right now there’s no football being played. And Klis writes that the indications out of Denver are that when football is being played, Tim Tebow will be the Broncos’ starting quarterback.

According to Klis, Orton’s only real hope of being the starter in Week One is if there’s a work stoppage lasting long enough that NFL training camps are shortened. In that situation, Fox might feel like he has no choice to go with the experienced Orton over the untested Tebow.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/08/despite-vocal-support-for-orton-tebow-still-looks-like-broncos-starter/

there ya go. . . top can console himself with the fact that it's just the opinion of a sportswriter, and maybe the rest of you can breath again. . . .

[Agent of Orange]

The problem with letting them compete in training camp is that we all know Orton does a lot better on Monday- Friday than he does when its live bullets.

[nevcraw]

competition will cure all... early or late TT will rag doll KO into submission with his determination, will and god blesses..

[Dzone]

I would guess that 95% of Bronco fans want Tebow instead of Orton. With Tebow there is an entirely different attitude. Tebow made football fun again around here. Orton fosters depression.

[Dirk]

I say if a new CBA gets done. They need to go into training camp, OTAs etc with Tebow the number 1 guy. He along with the team need that to build some chemistry. Competition is good only when there is still a question mark. I believe (yes looking into my crystal ball) the FO is looking at Tebow being the starter this year. And if that is the case, then put him there from the get go. Most reps etc. He didn't do too bad for not getting ANY of the reps with the 1st team last year until McD was given the boot.

I will say that I like KO though. He can't put a team on his shoulders when it's crunch time, but I do like him and he isn't as bad as a lot of people here say he is. He just doesn't have that "magic" about him that makes other players rise above adversity with him. It's not a knock on him really, it's just the way he is. Some players have "it" and some players don't.

[oubronco]

What will everyone think if Fox thinks Quinn is the better QB? He has stated he can't wait to see what he has in him....Just curious

[BroncoNut]

I'm all for Orton being the starter out of the box. I am expecting a new system and playcalling. Now do I want him to stay as such? That's a question for down the road

[Dirk]

What will everyone think if Fox thinks Quinn is the better QB? He has stated he can't wait to see what he has in him....Just curious

I was one of the very few here that wanted McD to get Quinn when McJayGate happened. I thought with the proper QB coaching he may be a very good QB. My only problem with him is his accuracy. I would be completely shocked if Quinn got named the starter.

[Ravage!!!]

I always wonder why the Tebow guys simply want the job to be given to Tebow now, instead of making him win the job??

If he can't completely OUTPLAY Orton, then Orton should get the start.... period (although that thought absolutely BORES me to tears). So whats the concern? Are people that worried that Tebow can't beat out Orton in practice? I know I share what worry. So far Tebow has proved all his critics correct (yes, correct) in their break down of his game play coming out of college.

The GOOD thing about Orton possibly winning the starting role, is it gives us a MUCH better chance of getting Andrew Luck next year!! :dance:

[Ravage!!!]

The problem with letting them compete in training camp is that we all know Orton does a lot better on Monday- Friday than he does when its live bullets.

Very good point. They can't seem to truly simulate the 2 minute drill in practice. Because Orton just absolutely FAILS when the game is on the line.

Maybe they need to threaten to take away his alcohol or make him shave if he fails in the 2 minute drill. Then, we would have a clean shaven, alcohol-free, Kyle Orton. ;)

[rcsodak]

Trade the cancer... start the cure.
Dave, you are TOTALLY off base. TO is a cancer. Heynesworth is a cancer.
I'm surprised at you and your lashing out. It doesn't make a shitpot of difference whether posters like/dislike tebow. And it wont make him play any bettor worse. Bashing his competition isn't going to improve TT's chances of winning the position, either. But it will turn threads ugly and neverending.
I don't attack TT. Never have. I might jump in on some having fun posts.... and yet, I'm called a" hater" because of my positive posts re Orton.

Cancer? TT talk is becoming a cancer HERE!

:rolleyes:
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[jhns]

I always wonder why the Tebow guys simply want the job to be given to Tebow now, instead of making him win the job??

If he can't completely OUTPLAY Orton, then Orton should get the start.... period (although that thought absolutely BORES me to tears). So whats the concern? Are people that worried that Tebow can't beat out Orton in practice? I know I share what worry. So far Tebow has proved all his critics correct (yes, correct) in their break down of his game play coming out of college.

The GOOD thing about Orton possibly winning the starting role, is it gives us a MUCH better chance of getting Andrew Luck next year!! :dance:

This would be because some feel he has already completely outplayed Orton. Did you know that the Tebow led Broncos never once scored less than the average points per game of the Orton led Broncos? If we had the Tebow led Bronco average points per game all season, we would have been a top 10 offense. Orton had us at the 22nd ranked scoring offense. Tebow did this after the teams coach and playcaller was fired. He did it as an unpolished rookie that got backup reps all year.

The job shouldn't just be given to him for no reason. It should be given to him because he has earned it. This is assuming no new QB comes into the mix.

[dogfish]

What will everyone think if Fox thinks Quinn is the better QB?

good one!


:rofl:

[Ravage!!!]

This would be because some feel he has already completely outplayed Orton. Did you know that the Tebow led Broncos never once scored less than the average points per game of the Orton led Broncos? If we had the Tebow led Bronco average points per game all season, we would have been a top 10 offense. Orton had us at the 22nd ranked scoring offense. Tebow did this after the teams coach and playcaller was fired. He did it as an unpolished rookie that got backup reps all year.

The job shouldn't just be given to him for no reason. It should be given to him because he has earned it. This is assuming no new QB comes into the mix.

Sorry. I just don't see it that way.

I'm absolutely not an Orton guy. I don't think he has more value than a good back-up. I stated LAST pre-season that we should start Tebow from game one so that he gets experience.

So whats the problem? If he's better than Orton, he's better than Orton. But there is nothing wrong with going into camp with competition.

Personally, I'm concerned that Tebow is never going to be the passing QB you need in this league. I absolutely saw that in his first three games, and instead of them easing my concern, they raised it.

So although I know that Orton doesn't have a future in Denver, if Tebow does, then he should simply beat out Orton and take the starting role. Who cares what the coaches have "labeled" the starting QB 6 months before the first game? Thats just a title and nothing more.

But there are REASONS that Elway has concerns about Tebow's play. Every coach is goign to put the player on the field that gives them the best chance to win. If Tebow is worth all the picks we gave for him, then he SHOULD be able to beat out Kyle Orton. If he can't, it tells me a LOT more about Tebow then it does about Orton.... because we already know what a lame QB Orton is.

[arapaho2]

Sorry. I just don't see it that way.

I'm absolutely not an Orton guy. I don't think he has more value than a good back-up. I stated LAST pre-season that we should start Tebow from game one so that he gets experience.

So whats the problem? If he's better than Orton, he's better than Orton. But there is nothing wrong with going into camp with competition.

Personally, I'm concerned that Tebow is never going to be the passing QB you need in this league. I absolutely saw that in his first three games, and instead of them easing my concern, they raised it.

So although I know that Orton doesn't have a future in Denver, if Tebow does, then he should simply beat out Orton and take the starting role. Who cares what the coaches have "labeled" the starting QB 6 months before the first game? Thats just a title and nothing more.

But there are REASONS that Elway has concerns about Tebow's play. Every coach is goign to put the player on the field that gives them the best chance to win. If Tebow is worth all the picks we gave for him, then he SHOULD be able to beat out Kyle Orton. If he can't, it tells me a LOT more about Tebow then it does about Orton.... because we already know what a lame QB Orton is.

curious rav...just what did you see that proved to you tebow couldnt be a good passing qb???

considering he never had any snaps under center all season...no time with the first team offense all year...and only a week to adjust from being the guy holding a the clipboard and zero snaps in practise...to the starting qb

with a game against the #1 and the #2 rated passing defenses in the league

and had 300+ yard passing game in his 2nd start...abeit the 32nd rated passing d..but still

averaged 217 ypg....8.3 ypa...49.8%..and a 82.1 qbr

what exactly proved he wouldnt be a good passing qb?

[vandammage13]

I always wonder why the Tebow guys simply want the job to be given to Tebow now, instead of making him win the job??

If he can't completely OUTPLAY Orton, then Orton should get the start.... period (although that thought absolutely BORES me to tears). So whats the concern? Are people that worried that Tebow can't beat out Orton in practice? I know I share what worry. So far Tebow has proved all his critics correct (yes, correct) in their break down of his game play coming out of college.

The GOOD thing about Orton possibly winning the starting role, is it gives us a MUCH better chance of getting Andrew Luck next year!! :dance:

Personally I hope Tebow gets the chance to win it in competition. I think Tebow would rather it be that way too. There is no doubt in my mind that Tebow would win the starting gig over Orton if given a fair competition.

The only worry that I have is if there is a prolonged lockout, there won't be time to have a competition and the FO might decide to go with Orton due to his experience, since TC would be limited. This scenario wouldn't really provide Tim with a fair shot to win the starting job. I don't really see this happening, but I do think it is a possibility.

[jhns]

Sorry. I just don't see it that way.

I'm absolutely not an Orton guy. I don't think he has more value than a good back-up. I stated LAST pre-season that we should start Tebow from game one so that he gets experience.

So whats the problem? If he's better than Orton, he's better than Orton. But there is nothing wrong with going into camp with competition.

Personally, I'm concerned that Tebow is never going to be the passing QB you need in this league. I absolutely saw that in his first three games, and instead of them easing my concern, they raised it.

So although I know that Orton doesn't have a future in Denver, if Tebow does, then he should simply beat out Orton and take the starting role. Who cares what the coaches have "labeled" the starting QB 6 months before the first game? Thats just a title and nothing more.

But there are REASONS that Elway has concerns about Tebow's play. Every coach is goign to put the player on the field that gives them the best chance to win. If Tebow is worth all the picks we gave for him, then he SHOULD be able to beat out Kyle Orton. If he can't, it tells me a LOT more about Tebow then it does about Orton.... because we already know what a lame QB Orton is.

I have no problem with the way the front office is handling this. Competition is always a good thing and your point about them playing who they think gives tjem the best chance is dead on. The explanation I gave is just for why I voted that Tebow should be given the job.

Really, Orton could be a decent QB for us if Fox can put together the team he wants. Orton is perfect for a run first, ball control offense. OK, maybe not perfect but close to. He would need to develope the ability to play in pressure situations still. I really hated him being the QB on McDaniels team. Orton is a horrible choice for a passing team. This all said, I see Tebow as the same but a little better. I wouldn't want him running a McDaniels, pass all the time, type offense. I see him as a great fit for a ball control offense that sometimes asks him to make something out of nothing at the end of close games. I like the way he handles pressure and no one can deny that he is a playmaker.

[rcsodak]

Very good point. They can't seem to truly simulate the 2 minute drill in practice. Because Orton just absolutely FAILS when the game is on the line.

Maybe they need to threaten to take away his alcohol or make him shave if he fails in the 2 minute drill. Then, we would have a clean shaven, alcohol-free, Kyle Orton. ;)

:coffee:
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[rcsodak]

curious rav...just what did you see that proved to you tebow couldnt be a good passing qb???

considering he never had any snaps under center all season...no time with the first team offense all year...and only a week to adjust from being the guy holding a the clipboard and zero snaps in practise...to the starting qb

with a game against the #1 and the #2 rated passing defenses in the league

and had 300+ yard passing game in his 2nd start...abeit the 32nd rated passing d..but still

averaged 217 ypg....8.3 ypa...49.8%..and a 82.1 qbr

what exactly proved he wouldnt be a good passing qb?
I'd start with the 49.8%.

Winning qb's avg 60+%
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[vandammage13]

I'd start with the 49.8%.

Winning qb's avg 60+%

Kind of like Orton...Oh wait, he only threw 58% last year. I guess the 5 year vet doesn't meet your criteria of a "Winner."

[jhns]

I'd start with the 49.8%.

Winning qb's avg 60+%
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The best QB to ever play the game only completed 56 percent of his passes. This QB only completed 47 percent of his passes in his rookie year. I don't think John Elway agrees with you.

[rcsodak]

Kind of like Orton...Oh wait, he only threw 58% last year. I guess the 5 year vet doesn't meet your criteria of a "Winner."
Thus 3-10 (with no running game/putrid ol/despicable _efense).
Evidently you have me cornfused with someone else. Saying KO's a better qb than TT right now isn't saying he's better than PManning.

His 58.8 is Hella lot better than <50%! KO's lowest is 51.5, from a perennially wr-challenged, defense driven Chi team.
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[rcsodak]

The best QB to ever play the game only completed 56 percent of his passes. This QB only completed 47 percent of his passes in his rookie year. I don't think John Elway agrees with you.
So, after rereading my post you quoted, you dont think he needs to work on improving that?

And sadly, jhns, elway HAS come out and said he's got ALOT to work on and is NOT ready.

Plus, I doubt john would ever say he was happy with his 1st yr, since we're now putting words in his mouth.
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[jhns]

So, after rereading my post you quoted, you dont think he needs to work on improving that?

And sadly, jhns, elway HAS come out and said he's got ALOT to work on and is NOT ready.

Plus, I doubt john would ever say he was happy with his 1st yr, since we're now putting words in his mouth.
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I meant Elway doesn't agree with your statement about winning QBs since he didn't have an above 60 completion percentage.

Of course Tebow needs to improve. He was a rookie... Reality is, he led a top 10 scoring offense, so what more do you want? If you are only going to complain about the completion percentage, you should probably also look at the fact that Tebow threw a much higher percentage of his balls 11+ yards than any QB I have found. He threw a much higher percent of long passes than Orton, Manning, Brady, or Brees. It should be obvious why this would hurt his completion percentage as these QBs keep theirs high with those short passes. This may be a "problem" he has to work on or it could have been horrible play calling. Either way, I don't think he has some horrible accuracy problem. He just needs to make shorter throws if he wants a highet completion percentage.

[Bullgator]

I'd start with the 49.8%.

Winning qb's avg 60+%
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HES A ROOOOOKKKIIIEEEEEE with only 3 starts

[rcsodak]

I meant Elway doesn't agree with your statement about winning QBs since he didn't have an above 60 completion percentage.

Of course Tebow needs to improve. He was a rookie... Reality is, he led a top 10 scoring offense, so what more do you want? If you are only going to complain about the completion percentage, you should probably also look at the fact that Tebow threw a much higher percentage of his balls 11+ yards than any QB I have found. He threw a much higher percent of long passes than Orton, Manning, Brady, or Brees. It should be obvious why this would hurt his completion percentage as these QBs keep theirs high with those short passes. This may be a "problem" he has to work on or it could have been horrible play calling. Either way, I don't think he has some horrible accuracy problem. He just needs to make shorter throws if he wants a highet completion percentage.

Interesting. Can you supply a link? So he made more of those atttempts in 3gms than those guys did over an entire season?
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[jhns]

Interesting. Can you supply a link? So he made more of those atttempts in 3gms than those guys did over an entire season?
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I think you need to slow down while reading my post. The link would be the splits on espn.com. I said a higher percentage of his balls were long throws than other QBs... Not that he had more total long throws in 3 games than others had over a season...

[arapaho2]

I'd start with the 49.8%.

Winning qb's avg 60+%
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first maybe you ought to check other aspects
like...he was a rookie, with no practise snaps under center all season...as in zero time running the first team offense in practise until the week he started

he went up against the #1...and #2 rated pass defenses in the league in two of the three games

but if throwing a rookie in with zero practise snaps and he has a 49.8% is a indicater of impending failure.....somebody never told the broncos when elway put up a 47%

[Agent of Orange]

I see Orton is getting 7% of the vote. That sounds about right. I think the 30% voting for it to be decided by training camp like the idea in theory only but then when they realize Orton always does well when its not real live action, they'd re-consider.

[Poet]

Give the job to Tebow. Sometimes you just have to start completely over and give your guy the reigns. Orton is an average to above average QB, but he's not the face of a franchise. He's never going to be the guy who makes competing OC's jealous and DC's nervous.

Tebow, on the other hand, has that chance. I would give him the reigns and let him know that it's his job to lose, it's his team. Letting him be the starting QB also lets him be able to step up and take a LEADERSHIP role.

[arapaho2]

Thus 3-10 (with no running game/putrid ol/despicable _efense).
Evidently you have me cornfused with someone else. Saying KO's a better qb than TT right now isn't saying he's better than PManning.

His 58.8 is Hella lot better than <50%! KO's lowest is 51.5, from a perennially wr-challenged, defense driven Chi team.
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really Rc....your the same whether it was fighting for plummers honor...or ortons

no running game?...week 14..moreno put up 161 yards rushing...which coincedently was 44 more yards than the great orton had passing...in a 6 point scoreing frenzy

sure orton completed almost 2% more of his passes after being the starter...after camp...after getting the majority of snaps in practise with the 1st team offense...WOW:lol:...actually the NFL has tebows % at 50

lets check the crucial scoreing apptitude or ability

as a rookie with a full camp and majority of practise snaps orton threw a TD every 40.8 att....he threw a int every 28.3 attempts

tebow in his limited time...limited snaps...threw a td every 16.4 passes

kinda shows a some ability to score i'd say

as for a wr wasteland....mushin muhommed was a very good wr...so was bernard berrian

[Poet]

Muhsin came in at the back end of his career and Bernard was not a very good WR. Minnesota inked him to a nice contract and the next year he was riding pine.

[arapaho2]

Muhsin came in at the back end of his career and Bernard was not a very good WR. Minnesota inked him to a nice contract and the next year he was riding pine.


muhsin played 5 seasons after leaving carolina
averaged 56.6 rec per yr....737 yps and 13.1 ypr...pretty decent wr

[Poet]

muhsin played 5 seasons after leaving carolina
averaged 56.6 rec per yr....737 yps and 13.1 ypr...pretty decent wr

That's not what I want from my number one wideout.... and honsetly that's pretty average for a decent number two WR.

[arapaho2]

That's not what I want from my number one wideout.... and honsetly that's pretty average for a decent number two WR.


its good for a defensive 1st team....chicago was all about the d

[jhildebrand]

I always wonder why the Tebow guys simply want the job to be given to Tebow now, instead of making him win the job??

Why should he have to compete for a job that was given to Orton 2 seasons in a row now? :confused:

If you want to see the real mettle of Orton, list Tebow as the #1 going into TC (after OTA's). We thought some of Orton's comments at the end of the season were peculiar, that scenario would certainly provide some gems.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Why should he have to compete for a job that was given to Orton 2 seasons in a row now? :confused:

If you want to see the real mettle of Orton, list Tebow as the #1 going into TC (after OTA's). We thought some of Orton's comments at the end of the season were peculiar, that scenario would certainly provide some gems.

I never really thought of it that way. I think it would be extremely interesting to see how badly Orton wants to be here to name Tebow the starter but say it's an "open competition".

I wonder if Kyle would welcome the competition or demand to be traded? I think it would be a genius move by the FO to see if he really is the guy we want. Nice one, jhil.

[rcsodak]

first maybe you ought to check other aspects
like...he was a rookie, with no practise snaps under center all season...as in zero time running the first team offense in practise until the week he started

he went up against the #1...and #2 rated pass defenses in the league in two of the three games

but if throwing a rookie in with zero practise snaps and he has a 49.8% is a indicater of impending failure.....somebody never told the broncos when elway put up a 47%
TT > elway??
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[rcsodak]

its good for a defensive 1st team....chicago was all about the dthx for agreeing with me. :lol:
Shit wr's with shit OC's.
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[Poet]

its good for a defensive 1st team....chicago was all about the d

Bad is bad.

[PAINTERDAVE]

TT > elway??
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RC, my friend...

we have heard Orton's stats prove he is an awesome QB...
over and over and over...

Stats is what it is all about... right?

Well...
this argument goes like this...

when you compare Tebow's stats - from his first 3 NFL starts...
to Elways stats from his first 3 NFL starts...

yeah... Tebow's stats are better.

And Tebow also set 3 NFL/Team records in his first three starts...
and he did it with a rookie/inexperienced HC and a total rookie play caller
and no reps with the first team all yearlong until that week.

I don't get why you are so against this kid getting a shot... :confused:

[rcsodak]

RC, my friend...

we have heard Orton's stats prove he is an awesome QB...
over and over and over...

Stats is what it is all about... right?

Well...
this argument goes like this...

when you compare Tebow's stats - from his first 3 NFL starts...
to Elways stats from his first 3 NFL starts...

yeah... Tebow's stats are better.

And Tebow also set 3 NFL/Team records in his first three starts...
and he did it with a rookie/inexperienced HC and a total rookie play caller
and no reps with the first team all yearlong until that week.

I don't get why you are so against this kid getting a shot... :confused:

Again, dave, show where I've said TT sucks.

:tsk:
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[claymore]

If Tebow cant beat out Orton legitimatley he isnt the answer. If orton is the starting QB after a legitimate comeptiton, then we need to trade both QB's.

[arapaho2]

TT > elway??
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dont go "rod" on me....im simply saying if your number one condemming point of proof tebow is a sure fire failure is because of his 49% completion rate...somebody should have told the broncos when elway put up a 47% in his rookie season that he was a failure

surely your playing stupid and not actually?

[arapaho2]

thx for agreeing with me. :lol:
Shit wr's with shit OC's.
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okkk ...lets give you another orton excuse...to go along with...his severely injured finger...severly injured ribs...no running game...no oline...new offense...extremely complicated offense...bad defense...brandon marshall...tony scheffler...peyton hillis...and now orton would have put up probowl numbers numbers in his rookie season if it wasnt a defensive team and he had some all pro superstar wrs :lol::lol:

[SR]

I hate Tim Tebow.

[claymore]

I hate Tim Tebow.

Im fighting it back. Its hard to hate him. He is a Bronco and a good Christian.

I hate his following though.

[SR]

Im fighting it back. Its hard to hate him. He is a Bronco and a good Christian.

I hate his following though.

I don't hate Tebow. I actually like Tebow a lot and think he will be a good QB for this franchise, but his followers and the massive influx of Tebow fans calling themselves life long Bronco fans are really starting to peeve me. I'm just going to start playing Devil's Advocate. Eff Tim Tebow.

[claymore]

I don't hate Tebow. I actually like Tebow a lot and think he will be a good QB for this franchise, but his followers and the massive influx of Tebow fans calling themselves life long Bronco fans are really starting to peeve me. I'm just going to start playing Devil's Advocate. Eff Tim Tebow.

We need a tight end. Maybe if the whole "taking the snap from under center" thing doesnt work he can play TE?

[SR]

Nah. If he can't be successful as a QB I don't want him on this team. I'm almost willing to say I wish he wasn't on our team. I wish McDaniels would have played the draft differently last year. Instead of drafting Tebow and DT, we should've stayed with the picks we had and drafted defense. That way, if Orton sucked it up last season, we would've been in the position to draft an actual QB like Gabbert or the other guy.

[rcsodak]

dont go "rod" on me....im simply saying if your number one condemming point of proof tebow is a sure fire failure is because of his 49% completion rate...somebody should have told the broncos when elway put up a 47% in his rookie season that he was a failure

surely your playing stupid and not actually?
Rap rap rap.....

I can't remember word for word, but iirc, it was asked where he needed improvement or something close to that.
I picked his completion% as" a start". Then you and your posse decided to take it and run with it. Yeehaw
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[rcsodak]

okkk ...lets give you another orton excuse...to go along with...his severely injured finger...severly injured ribs...no running game...no oline...new offense...extremely complicated offense...bad defense...brandon marshall...tony scheffler...peyton hillis...and now orton would have put up probowl numbers numbers in his rookie season if it wasnt a defensive team and he had some all pro superstar wrs :lol::lol:

Your words.

For an example only: do you think Mr Rogers would be the same qb he is now, if he/alex smith were drafted in reverse....or wallowing in mediocrity....or would alex smith be the owner of a SB ring?
Do you think elway could have been an even better qb...EARLIER...with a different offensive philosophy than Reeves'?

HC/OC's absolutely make a difference in a qb' play and subsequent growth.
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[vandammage13]

okkk ...lets give you another orton excuse...to go along with...his severely injured finger...severly injured ribs...no running game...no oline...new offense...extremely complicated offense...bad defense...brandon marshall...tony scheffler...peyton hillis...and now orton would have put up probowl numbers numbers in his rookie season if it wasnt a defensive team and he had some all pro superstar wrs :lol::lol:

You forgot about the 2 sprained ankles.

[PAINTERDAVE]

As of now...

82 to 6 think Tebow is the guy....

6 Orton backers.

HMMM..

Clay, RC, Top, Red...

I wonder who the other two are?

[vandammage13]

As of now...

82 to 6 think Tebow is the guy....

6 Orton backers.

HMMM..

Clay, RC, Top, Red...

I wonder who the other two are?

Rav is definitely another. That leaves one more.....

[SR]

I'm not an Orton supporter.

[KCL]

Rav is definitely another. That leaves one more.....

JR?

[PAINTERDAVE]

Nah. If he can't be successful as a QB I don't want him on this team. I'm almost willing to say I wish he wasn't on our team. I wish McDaniels would have played the draft differently last year. Instead of drafting Tebow and DT, we should've stayed with the picks we had and drafted defense. That way, if Orton sucked it up last season, we would've been in the position to draft an actual QB like Gabbert or the other guy.

We are STILL in a position to draft Gabbert...
if that is what Elway wants to do.

They could TRADE Tebow... believe it or not...
TIM is a valuable prospect.

Deal is...

They wont do that... because Tebow is gonna get his shot here...
wether you and the other 5 like it or not.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I'm not an Orton supporter.

And an admitted Tebow hater.

You started a whole thread about it.

[SR]

And an admitted Tebow hater.

You started a whole thread about it.

I'm pretty sure you're also completely unaware of my honest stance in regards to Tim Tebow and also oblivious to my dry sense of humor. I like Tebow and want him to be our starter, but I have to break up the monotony of all of this bullshit somehow. You, sir, are playing in to my hand of entertaining myself.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I'm pretty sure you're also completely unaware of my honest stance in regards to Tim Tebow and also oblivious to my dry sense of humor. I like Tebow and want him to be our starter, but I have to break up the monotony of all of this bullshit somehow. You, sir, are playing in to my hand of entertaining myself.

And vica versa...
you make a perfect foil.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I don't hate Tebow. I actually like Tebow a lot and think he will be a good QB for this franchise, but his followers and the massive influx of Tebow fans calling themselves life long Bronco fans are really starting to peeve me. I'm just going to start playing Devil's Advocate. Eff Tim Tebow.

You do mean this stance.. right?

[BroncoStud]

Don't give the job to anyone. Competition will separate them.

[SR]

You do mean this stance.. right?

Minus the last part about Eff Tebow, yes. I like Tebow. I want Tebow to play. I think Orton is horrid. Playing the Devil's Advocate to break the monotony is somewhat entertaining.

[SR]

Don't give the job to anyone. Competition will separate them.

That'd be the logical thing to do, but I think in annoucning a "starter" the coach has given Orton confidence and basically said "the job is yours. Don't **** up".

[topscribe]

We need a tight end. Maybe if the whole "taking the snap from under center" thing doesnt work he can play TE?

If he stays out of prison.

We don't need any more wide receivers . . .

-----

[topscribe]

As of now...

82 to 6 think Tebow is the guy....

6 Orton backers.

HMMM..

Clay, RC, Top, Red...

I wonder who the other two are?

I did not vote Orton. I voted whoever wins.

A stand I have taken repeatedly throughout these threads . . .

-----

[topscribe]

You do mean this stance.. right?

Who cares? What if he didn't like Tebow? Would that make him less than human?
Why should he be challenged because of that? Are you kidding me? Who is
challenging the Tebow trolls like they should be doing? Where were you when
one of them insulted the entire Broncos institution? What is with this bullying
and peer pressure?

-----

[SR]

I like Tebow because people pressured me in to liking Tebow. What was I thinking??

[jhns]

I like Tebow because people pressured me in to liking Tebow. What was I thinking??

I knew it would work.

[SR]

I really need to learn how to think for myself.

[jhns]

I really need to learn how to think for myself.

Only when your opinion is the same as mine.

[SR]

What is your opinion? So I know what to think.

[dogfish]

Only when your opinion is the same as mine.

good point-- anyone who's opinion is the same as yours should seek psychological help. . .

they finally run you off the mane?

[jhns]

good point-- anyone who's opinion is the same as yours should seek psychological help. . .

they finally run you off the mane?

Nope, just no one posting today. They sure wish they could run me off.

[Bullgator]

If he stays out of prison.

We don't need any more wide receivers . . .

-----

Hold on so Clay is talking about Tebow... did you just say if Tebow stays out of prison?

[SR]

Hold on so Clay is talking about Tebow... did you just say if Tebow stays out of prison?

Stop talking.

[Bullgator]

I really need to learn how to think for myself.

Thinking for yourself means seeing what Tebow is DESPITE all the homers. Liking TT because of who HE is and what HES done not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Ill admit, his fans can be annoying but to evaluate TTs skill because f them is dumb to say the least.

[Bullgator]

Stop talking.

Im typing genius, not talking and No.

[jhns]

What is your opinion? So I know what to think.

My opinions follow an easy to remember set of rules.

1. Everything bad is McDaniels fault.

2. Shanahan is football Jesus.

3. Elway is the other twin football Jesus and will turn this thing around.

[vandammage13]

As of now...

82 to 6 think Tebow is the guy....

6 Orton backers.

HMMM..

Clay, RC, Top, Red...

I wonder who the other two are?

Staples

[SR]

Thinking for yourself means seeing what Tebow is DESPITE all the homers. Liking TT because of who HE is and what HES done not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Ill admit, his fans can be annoying but to evaluate TTs skill because f them is dumb to say the least.

But, he hasn't done anything yet. So, what now?

[SR]

My opinions follow an easy to remember set of rules.

1. Everything bad is McDaniels fault.

2. Shanahan is football Jesus.

3. Elway is the other twin football Jesus and will turn this thing around.

Okay. So, we don't agree.

Here's how I'd do it.

Everything bad is McDaniels' fault.

Shanahan was football Jesus.

Elway is dangerous. He will either turn it around or make it worse than it is now.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Who cares? What if he didn't like Tebow? Would that make him less than human?
Why should he be challenged because of that? Are you kidding me? Who is
challenging the Tebow trolls like they should be doing? Where were you when
one of them insulted the entire Broncos institution? What is with this bullying
and peer pressure?

-----

Crikey! I did not think it was bullying.... sorry....

[topscribe]

Crikey! I did not think it was bullying.... sorry....

Hey, you're my bud! That probably sounded rougher in print than it would have
in person. Besides, that was more like a shotgun approach: You're supposed to
catch only a few of the pellets. :D

-----

[dogfish]

Hey, you're my bud! That probably sounded rougher in print than it would have
in person. Besides, that was more like a shotgun approach: You're supposed to
catch only a few of the pellets. :D

-----

ahhh, the dick cheney approach. . .

[topscribe]

ahhh, the dick cheney approach. . .

lol

-----

[I Eat Staples]

Staples

You caught me.

:behindsofa:

[Fifteenzit]

Tebow will get it done. One way or the other, its going to get done. Throw or run, he's going to move the football. He is a proven Champion. Its in his blood. Personally, I do not think he will except anything but winning.
The last couple of games he lifted this team. He lifted the fans. He got me out of my chair. This kid is going to win games!! Period......
He has faith and I have faith in him. His record on its own, gives him the right and oppurtunity to have a season to prove himself.
If Orton starts, I think I might have to go back to dirt bike racing on Sundays.
Give Tebow one full season and I think Broncos are back in the hunt.....

[CoachChaz]

Worst case scenario, Tebow needs to start if for no other reason than to show us what we have at the QB position. If it isnt going to work...for whatever reason...we need to know now. Not next year.

[rcsodak]

We are STILL in a position to draft Gabbert...
if that is what Elway wants to do.

They could TRADE Tebow... believe it or not...
TIM is a valuable prospect.

Deal is...

They wont do that... because Tebow is gonna get his shot here...
wether you and the other 5 like it or not.

TT's value in your head > another team would surrender, imo. Any team that traded for him would KNOW he still needs time, and would have to have somebody in the meantime. Kolb has shown more in his limited play, and his stock is now down to a #2.
If TT is thrown out there, unprepared, and stumbles, his stock will lower even more.
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[rcsodak]

I did not vote Orton. I voted whoever wins.

A stand I have taken repeatedly throughout these threads . . .

-----
Ditto.
Scarlet letter much, dave?
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[SR]

TT's value in your head > another team would surrender, imo. Any team that traded for him would KNOW he still needs time, and would have to have somebody in the meantime. Kolb has shown more in his limited play, and his stock is now down to a #2.
If TT is thrown out there, unprepared, and stumbles, his stock will lower even more.
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I've seen teams give up more for less...look what Seattle gave up for Whitehurst...

[rcsodak]

My opinions follow an easy to remember set of rules.

1. Everything bad is McDaniels fault.

2. Shanahan is football Jesus.

3. Elway is the other twin football Jesus and will turn this thing around.

Lmao. Shanny's to blame for this clust **** we call the denver broncos.

Wallowing in mediocrity, addressing 1/2 the team in drafts.......

...crack me up.
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[SR]

Lmao. Shanny's to blame for this clust **** we call the denver broncos.

Wallowing in mediocrity, addressing 1/2 the team in drafts.......

...crack me up.
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:rolleyes:

[rcsodak]

I've seen teams give up more for less...look what Seattle gave up for Whitehurst...
seattle isn't exactly the norm for the nfl, as are snyder/davis.
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[SR]

True, but I'm sure we'd have no problem dealing Tebow and getting a fair return.

[jhns]

Lmao. Shanny's to blame for this clust **** we call the denver broncos.

Wallowing in mediocrity, addressing 1/2 the team in drafts.......

...crack me up.
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Umm, Shanahan never came close to getting us the second overall pick... Try again.

[rcsodak]

:rolleyes:
Don't agree, ingRed?
If he had been a better evaluator of talent, nis dafts wouldn't have sucked like they did, his FA pickups wouldn't necessarily have happened, the defense wouldn't have gone through 6(?) coordinators since the SB's. McD wouldn't have happened.
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[rcsodak]

Umm, Shanahan never came close to getting us the second overall pick... Try again.with his record of drafting, and the age of the oline and the entire defense, and his propensity for reaching in the draft and in FA, overpaying in the process, I'd venture to say he was well on his way. But that's just my opinion.
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[SR]

If you're going to blame Shanahan, you might as well blame every coach under him, the front office, and Bowlen too. Blaming Shanahan is a cop out.

[rcsodak]

If you're going to blame Shanahan, you might as well blame every coach under him, the front office, and Bowlen too. Blaming Shanahan is a cop out.Who hired the coaches below him?
Shanny.
I admire Mr B...always have/will. But he did screw the pooch on Mcd. But he's already admitted that, so :deadhorse:
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[SR]

The last two years were McD's doing, not Shanny's doing. So, like I said, for you to blame him is a cop out.

[jhns]

with his record of drafting, and the age of the oline and the entire defense, and his propensity for reaching in the draft and in FA, overpaying in the process, I'd venture to say he was well on his way. But that's just my opinion.
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The age of the line? It had 3 guys that were in the league for less than 3 years, incuding a stud rookie LT... One of the older guys, who was one of McDaniels scape goats, played on one of the better lines in football last season. I dont know what you are talking about. The defense was old and needed redone. No one can say it didnt. Still, with the worst defense he ever had, this team wasnt close to this bad. Making it older and trading away a good portion of the offensive talent is what put this team in the position it is in. That wasnt Shanahan.

Your opinion is based on nothing. Shanahan was here a long time. He completely rebuilt this team multiple times. He never once had a top ten pick.

[rcsodak]

The age of the line? It had 3 guys that were in the league for less than 3 years, incuding a stud rookie LT... One of the older guys, who was one of McDaniels scape goats, played on one of the better lines in football last season. I dont know what you are talking about. The defense was old and needed redone. No one can say it didnt. Still, with the worst defense he ever had, this team wasnt close to this bad. Making it older and trading away a good portion of the offensive talent is what put this team in the position it is in. That wasnt Shanahan.

Your opinion is based on nothing. Shanahan was here a long time. He completely rebuilt this team multiple times. He never once had a top ten pick.

And many people think not having a high draft pick is what part of the problem was. He waddled in mediocrity. :500 over his last 3 yrs. Middle of the road draft picks that had a less than stellar record of signing extensions/2nd contracts. He was stuck with having to rely on older, sometimes broken down FA's, and overpaying for their menial output, YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT!
And my opinion is based on his suit of armor. I loved him as a coach and was knocked off my feet when he was fired. But I'm also able to step back and acknowledge what's dead on in front of everyone's face.
And unless I'm mistaken, weigmann is retiring.
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[arapaho2]

Don't agree, ingRed?
If he had been a better evaluator of talent, nis dafts wouldn't have sucked like they did, his FA pickups wouldn't necessarily have happened, the defense wouldn't have gone through 6(?) coordinators since the SB's. McD wouldn't have happened.
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i do recall two of the six joshes Dcs...1 per season :lol:


tell me RC...is not clady a talent...royal, marshall, doom, harris, kuper?, was not hillis a talent

sure shannys draft team missed a bunch, but its no coincedence that his drafts picked up as soon as sunquist was canned

mcd in two seasons had some misses to...ayers....smith...quinn ring a bell?

[SR]

It's not fair to lump Ayers in there yet. He was a beast last year before he got hurt.

[arapaho2]

The age of the line? It had 3 guys that were in the league for less than 3 years, incuding a stud rookie LT... One of the older guys, who was one of McDaniels scape goats, played on one of the better lines in football last season. I dont know what you are talking about. The defense was old and needed redone. No one can say it didnt. Still, with the worst defense he ever had, this team wasnt close to this bad. Making it older and trading away a good portion of the offensive talent is what put this team in the position it is in. That wasnt Shanahan.

Your opinion is based on nothing. Shanahan was here a long time. He completely rebuilt this team multiple times. He never once had a top ten pick.


we were a mediocre team under shanny in 08 for a couple reasons...first, the defense was putrid, terrble..on shanny for sure

the second...because on offense we were a extremely young team..i believe 8 of the 11 offensive starters were either rookies or 2nd-3rd yr players

josh came in and not only degraded a terrible defense...but destroyed a up and comeing young offense

the team is nothing but worse for his two seasons here

shanny made us mediocre with a upside...mcd made us hideous with a "we cant get worse" attitude

[rcsodak]

i do recall two of the six joshes Dcs...1 per season :lol:


tell me RC...is not clady a talent...royal, marshall, doom, harris, kuper?, was not hillis a talent

sure shannys draft team missed a bunch, but its no coincedence that his drafts picked up as soon as sunquist was canned

mcd in two seasons had some misses to...ayers....smith...quinn ring a bell?
Shanny was drafting how many years and you show how many decent picks?
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[arapaho2]

It's not fair to lump Ayers in there yet. He was a beast last year before he got hurt.


well 1.5 sacks for a starting OLB is hardly what i consider....a beast

[SR]

well 1.5 sacks for a starting OLB is hardly what i consider....a beast

Looking at stats vs watching the game is different. He was playing very well before he got hurt and I don't think you'll find many people that'll disagree with that.

[arapaho2]

Shanny was drafting how many years and you show how many decent picks?
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once again...look at the history....once shanny rid himself of sunquist...the drafts improved..right?

you can sugar coat it all you want...the fact remains...we was a team on the rise with a need of a defense in 08...in 2010 we are thre worst team in the league in defense and nearly the worst team in offense...in otrher words much much worse

sure shanny wasnt a great talent evaluater...but he in no shape way or form is the reason we are picking number 2 this year

[arapaho2]

Looking at stats vs watching the game is different. He was playing very well before he got hurt and I don't think you'll find many people that'll disagree with that.


yeah he was there..had a couple moments here and there...olbs are to pressure the qb...get sacks..he failed

maybe he wasnt suited for the olb spot...maybe he will break out in 011....but honestly he didnt live up to where he was drafted at...and i had huge belief in ayers going into the season

[Dzone]

Tebow won the job in the last 3 games. No way do we beat Houston with Orton at qb

[vandammage13]

Tebow won the job in the last 3 games. No way do we beat Houston with Orton at qb

Or even compete against Oak and SD for that matter...

[Day1BroncoFan]

May the best man win.

[rcsodak]

we were a mediocre team under shanny in 08 for a couple reasons...first, the defense was putrid, terrble..on shanny for sure

the second...because on offense we were a extremely young team..i believe 8 of the 11 offensive starters were either rookies or 2nd-3rd yr players

josh came in and not only degraded a terrible defense...but destroyed a up and comeing young offense

the team is nothing but worse for his two seasons here

shanny made us mediocre with a upside...mcd made us hideous with a "we cant get worse" attitude
Like I said, shanny is to blame. If his dafting, player evals, pisspoor DC's, overpaying didn't suck so badly, the record might have been better and he might still be in denver, thus, no McD.
But it is what it is and you can't put time back in the bottle.
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[rcsodak]

once again...look at the history....once shanny rid himself of sunquist...the drafts improved..right?

you can sugar coat it all you want...the fact remains...we was a team on the rise with a need of a defense in 08...in 2010 we are thre worst team in the league in defense and nearly the worst team in offense...in otrher words much much worse

sure shanny wasnt a great talent evaluater...but he in no shape way or form is the reason we are picking number 2 this year
Sorry, but that 'blame it on sunny' boat has done sailed.
Besides, pretty sure you were among the throng calling him nothing more than a paper tiger; that shanny was really the string holder.
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[rcsodak]

Tebow won the job in the last 3 games. No way do we beat Houston with Orton at qb
Orton > TT in throwing the rock
Hou's pass d was at the time the worst
TT throws for 300+

How does that equate to orton not doing as good if not better than TT?
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[vandammage13]

Orton > TT in throwing the rock
Hou's pass d was at the time the worst
TT throws for 300+

How does that equate to orton not doing as good if not better than TT?
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Orton would have folded after we were down 24-3 at the half or whatever the score was. No comeback ability with him, and I would go so far as to say he wouldn't even have tried to. He showed that previously in the (in)famous "we're done" game.

Orton would have been content just checking down and taking what the defense gave him so he could once again pad his stats in a blowout, rather than taking chances and trying to make a game out of it.

[SR]

Tebow won the job in the last 3 games. No way do we beat Houston with Orton at qb

Not a chance. That game would've been over at the half if Orton was playing. Regardless of Tebow's mechanical "flaws", he gives the team a MUCH better chance to win than Orton.

[arapaho2]

Like I said, shanny is to blame. If his dafting, player evals, pisspoor DC's, overpaying didn't suck so badly, the record might have been better and he might still be in denver, thus, no McD.
But it is what it is and you can't put time back in the bottle.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums


if he had hired a real DC would he would still be in denver...i believe shannys time was up regardless

but he didnt create this terrible team...mcd did...shanny left a talented younf offense with all mcd needing to do was shore up the defense

out of the 22 starters for the 2008 broncos...the 2010 broncos had 7 left

of the 2nd ranked offense in 08 the team had 4 starters in 010..grahm, clady, kuper and harris

mcd got rid of 14 of the 22 starters and supposedly replaced them with better talent...we got worse


how exactly is that shannies fault?

[SR]

if he had hired a real DC would he would still be in denver...i believe shannys time was up regardless

but he didnt create this terrible team...mcd did...shanny left a talented younf offense with all mcd needing to do was shore up the defense

out of the 22 starters for the 2008 broncos...the 2010 broncos had 7 left

of the 2nd ranked offense in 08 the team had 4 starters in 010..grahm, clady, kuper and harris

mcd got rid of 14 of the 22 starters and supposedly replaced them with better talent...we got worse


how exactly is that shannies fault?


I like that logic.

[arapaho2]

Orton > TT in throwing the rock
Hou's pass d was at the time the worst
TT throws for 300+

How does that equate to orton not doing as good if not better than TT?
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examine the bolts matchup/...orton starting gets yards...not much else...TT leads to scoreing

number one defense...number 1 passing defense

orton led the team to 14 points...217 yards...1td..1int
TT as a rookie in his third start....205 yards...2tds..2 ints..1 rtd...28 team points

[Day1BroncoFan]

Does anyone know the points to yards ratio for the offense under TT and KO?

[rcsodak]

if he had hired a real DC would he would still be in denver...i believe shannys time was up regardless

but he didnt create this terrible team...mcd did...shanny left a talented younf offense with all mcd needing to do was shore up the defense

out of the 22 starters for the 2008 broncos...the 2010 broncos had 7 left

of the 2nd ranked offense in 08 the team had 4 starters in 010..grahm, clady, kuper and harris

mcd got rid of 14 of the 22 starters and supposedly replaced them with better talent...we got worse


how exactly is that shannies fault?
Not for certain......but I sure don't remember too many of y'all complaining when McD was gutting the defense. And to say the team lost any output from getting rid of marshall would be wrong. We all saw the quit in cutler=no loss. Has Shef matched his draft status? Hillis = :deadhorse:
Shannys actions were detrimental to the team, constantly. I'm curious to see how his 1st rd bust% stacks up vs the league. How many times did he leave them in cap hell? Dead money? For craps sake, he's gone and he's STILL costing Mr B money.
Your love for shanny is deep seated. I get it. I just think you're seeing his last 5+yrs through eyes wide shut.
To each his own, rap, and I can appreciate your loyalty. :shrugs:
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[rcsodak]

examine the bolts matchup/...orton starting gets yards...not much else...TT leads to scoreing

number one defense...number 1 passing defense

orton led the team to 14 points...217 yards...1td..1int
TT as a rookie in his third start....205 yards...2tds..2 ints..1 rtd...28 team points
Orton played sd when they were still in the race.
What was sd playing for wk 17?

And isn't a loss a loss? Haven't you said 'stats don't mean shit' when KO was leading the league while still losing? You gonna bake that cake or eat it, rap?
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[SR]

Opinions are like ass holes RC.

[SR]

Orton played sd when they were still in the race.
What was sd playing for wk 17?

And isn't a loss a loss? Haven't you said 'stats don't mean shit' when KO was leading the league while still losing? You gonna bake that cake or eat it, rap?
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I will agree that a loss is a loss, but Tebow gave us more of a chance to win than Orton did IMO. If you disagree with that, then all hope is lost.

[rcsodak]

Does anyone know the points to yards ratio for the offense under TT and KO?
unless they both played the same team/the same time/the same conditions/simultaneously, how can you compare them?
VARIABLES!
Or are you going to acknowledge that since orton has less int's than pmanning, he must be better. (Cuz some TT homers say that since he had better stats in his 3gms, he is gonna be better than elway was)
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[GEM]

Not for certain......but I sure don't remember too many of y'all complaining when McD was gutting the defense. And to say the team lost any output from getting rid of marshall would be wrong. We all saw the quit in cutler=no loss. Has Shef matched his draft status? Hillis = :deadhorse:
Shannys actions were detrimental to the team, constantly. I'm curious to see how his 1st rd bust% stacks up vs the league. How many times did he leave them in cap hell? Dead money? For craps sake, he's gone and he's STILL costing Mr B money.
Your love for shanny is deep seated. I get it. I just think you're seeing his last 5+yrs through eyes wide shut.
To each his own, rap, and I can appreciate your loyalty. :shrugs:
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I still don't understand talking trash about Shanahan in the same breath as defending McDaniels. :duh:

Shanahan in 12 years didn't do half the damage that McD did in less than 2.

[rcsodak]

Opinions are like ass holes RC.
Guess this place is full of them, then, since that's all anybody can offer.
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[GEM]

unless they both played the same team/the same time/the same conditions/simultaneously, how can you compare them?
VARIABLES!
Or are you going to acknowledge that since orton has less int's than pmanning, he must be better. (Cuz some TT homers say that since he had better stats in his 3gms, he is gonna be better than elway was)
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He asked a question. Answer it or move on.

[SR]

Yourself included.

[GEM]

Guess this place is full of them, then, since that's all anybody can offer.
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And your Opinion is Fact all the sudden? What excludes you from your very own statement?

[topscribe]

He asked a question. Answer it or move on.

Now we have to post according to some sort of protocol?

What if he doesn't want to answer the question? I don't answer those I don't want to, and I'm not planning to start . . .

-----

[Bullgator]

Now we have to post according to some sort of protocol?

What if he doesn't want to answer the question? I don't answer those I don't want to, and I'm not planning to start . . .

-----

thats rich... because i sure as hell do

[rcsodak]

I will agree that a loss is a loss, but Tebow gave us more of a chance to win than Orton did IMO. If you disagree with that, then all hope is lost.
lmao. Your way or the hiway? :rolleyes:
Well, your opine differs from many nfl people I listen to, who say Kgives them the best chance to win.

Having spunk, while unbrideled, may interject some life into the team, short-term. But before long, losing will still happen....and then what? "At least he's getting invaluable experience"?
I find it interesting, how, after TT was drafted and nearly all analysts,ex coaches/players said he would prolly need 2yrs(min)before he would be nfl ready, most everybody here agreed. Now, even while disagreeing with JE, y'all want to hand him the position and the wolves, after 3 up/down gms.

What will you be saying, say halfway thru the season, and TT has 3td's/11int's/3fumbles and the team has 1 win?
A. He's getting invaluable experience
B. He's not ready
C. He's not the answer...draft luck
D. Its BQuinn time
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[arapaho2]

Not for certain......but I sure don't remember too many of y'all complaining when McD was gutting the defense. And to say the team lost any output from getting rid of marshall would be wrong. We all saw the quit in cutler=no loss. Has Shef matched his draft status? Hillis = :deadhorse:
Shannys actions were detrimental to the team, constantly. I'm curious to see how his 1st rd bust% stacks up vs the league. How many times did he leave them in cap hell? Dead money? For craps sake, he's gone and he's STILL costing Mr B money.
Your love for shanny is deep seated. I get it. I just think you're seeing his last 5+yrs through eyes wide shut.
To each his own, rap, and I can appreciate your loyalty. :shrugs:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

year one mcd didnt quite gut the defense...he removed some trash for sure like manual and mcree

but did his slicing and diceing improve the team?...under nolan it did...in the end it made it worse...and three starters on defense in 010 that was starters on defense in 08...and we got worse

i didnt ask you n to dig up all your files on shannies drafts left over from your plummer aurguments..:lol::lol:

let it go...this in the end in the context of our discussions is did mcd leave us off worse than what shanny left....in a word...yes

[GEM]

Now we have to post according to some sort of protocol?

What if he doesn't want to answer the question? I don't answer those I don't want to, and I'm not planning to start . . .

-----

Day1 hasn't been involved in the bullshit that has happened here the last week or so. There was no reason for RC to answer his question in the manner he did. Either answer the question Day1 asked or move on, but don't answer him with some load of horseshit meant only to fan the flames of the bullshit that has happened here the last week or so.

He asked a serious question, he wanted stats. Not some little snarky reply to the rest of the off topic fighting going on in this thread.

Ever heard of the old saying....if you don't have anything good to say, shut up. That fit.

[arapaho2]

lmao. Your way or the hiway? :rolleyes:
Well, your opine differs from many nfl people I listen to, who say Kgives them the best chance to win.

Having spunk, while unbrideled, may interject some life into the team, short-term. But before long, losing will still happen....and then what? "At least he's getting invaluable experience"?
I find it interesting, how, after TT was drafted and nearly all analysts,ex coaches/players said he would prolly need 2yrs(min)before he would be nfl ready, most everybody here agreed. Now, even while disagreeing with JE, y'all want to hand him the position and the wolves, after 3 up/down gms.

What will you be saying, say halfway thru the season, and TT has 3td's/11int's/3fumbles and the team has 1 win?
A. He's getting invaluable experience
B. He's not ready
C. He's not the answer...draft luck
D. Its BQuinn time
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id say ...welcome to the broncos mr Luck

[rcsodak]

He asked a question. Answer it or move on.
Excuse me?
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[GEM]

Excuse me?
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Did I stutter?

Read my last post above this one.

[rcsodak]

And your Opinion is Fact all the sudden? What excludes you from your very own statement?
wow. Gem on the attack again. :elefant:
How did I NOT include myself in that statement, prey tell?
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[GEM]

wow. Gem on the attack again. :elefant:
How did I NOT include myself in that statement, prey tell?
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I wasn't the only one who called you on it. ;)

I wish I was allowed to use the ignore function.

[topscribe]

Day1 hasn't been involved in the bullshit that has happened here the last week or so. There was no reason for RC to answer his question in the manner he did. Either answer the question Day1 asked or move on, but don't answer him with some load of horseshit meant only to fan the flames of the bullshit that has happened here the last week or so.

He asked a serious question, he wanted stats. Not some little snarky reply to the rest of the off topic fighting going on in this thread.

Ever heard of the old saying....if you don't have anything good to say, shut up. That fit.

And his answer that, in that case, the stats were largely meaningless because
of variables. I happen to agree. So he didn't have the stats handy, but he made
the point that they were not going to prove much of anything. :shrugs:

If Day1 took exception to that, I think he can handle himself . . .

-----

[arapaho2]

Orton played sd when they were still in the race.
What was sd playing for wk 17?

And isn't a loss a loss? Haven't you said 'stats don't mean shit' when KO was leading the league while still losing? You gonna bake that cake or eat it, rap?
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point wasnt a loss was it....your point was only did good agaisnt the texans...i showed a common opponant...in which the team had a shot to win with TT...no so much orton

stick to your aurgument....dont change it to fit your lost points

matter of fact heres your post: Orton > TT in throwing the rock
Hou's pass d was at the time the worst
TT throws for 300+

How does that equate to orton not doing as good if not better than TT?

now where did you mention wins?

[Bullgator]

lmao. Your way or the hiway? :rolleyes:
Well, your opine differs from many nfl people I listen to, who say Kgives them the best chance to win.

Having spunk, while unbrideled, may interject some life into the team, short-term. But before long, losing will still happen....and then what? "At least he's getting invaluable experience"?
I find it interesting, how, after TT was drafted and nearly all analysts,ex coaches/players said he would prolly need 2yrs(min)before he would be nfl ready, most everybody here agreed. Now, even while disagreeing with JE, y'all want to hand him the position and the wolves, after 3 up/down gms.

What will you be saying, say halfway thru the season, and TT has 3td's/11int's/3fumbles and the team has 1 win?
A. He's getting invaluable experience
B. He's not ready
C. He's not the answer...draft luck
D. Its BQuinn time
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*the new me*

Yes RC you a right one hundred percent! Gee I sure wish the Broncos would trade Tebow. In fact lets deport him! Hes worthless! Lets play Kyle one more year and then get Luck.

(reserve the right to change my opinion to agree with the following people Top, RC, Red, KC, Carol, Turf, King87, and everyone else not named Bull, at anytime all rights reserved)

[GEM]

And his answer that, in that case, the stats were largely meaningless because
of variables. I happen to agree. So he didn't have the stats handy, but he made
the point that they were not going to prove much of anything. :shrugs:

If Day1 took exception to that, I think he can handle himself . . .

-----

I took exception to it so I answered it. I as a poster. I as someone who is disappointed in the lows this board has gone to over this shit the last week or so. I have felt bad not being able to be around the last week or so....but I sure haven't missed it.

[topscribe]

I took exception to it so I answered it. I as a poster. I as someone who is disappointed in the lows this board has gone to over this shit the last week or so. I have felt bad not being able to be around the last week or so....but I sure haven't missed it.

Okay. Fair enough. Now that we have all given our opinion . . .

:focus:

-----

[Bullgator]

I took exception to it so I answered it. I as a poster. I as someone who is disappointed in the lows this board has gone to over this shit the last week or so. I have felt bad not being able to be around the last week or so....but I sure haven't missed it.

I would high five you but for the fear of the repercussions you might get for my highfive being associated with your post. tiny incognito high five yay!

[underrated29]

lmao. Your way or the hiway? :rolleyes:
Well, your opine differs from many nfl people I listen to, who say Kgives them the best chance to win.

Having spunk, while unbrideled, may interject some life into the team, short-term. But before long, losing will still happen....and then what? "At least he's getting invaluable experience"?
I find it interesting, how, after TT was drafted and nearly all analysts,ex coaches/players said he would prolly need 2yrs(min)before he would be nfl ready, most everybody here agreed. Now, even while disagreeing with JE, y'all want to hand him the position and the wolves, after 3 up/down gms.

What will you be saying, say halfway thru the season, and TT has 3td's/11int's/3fumbles and the team has 1 win?
A. He's getting invaluable experience
B. He's not ready
C. He's not the answer...draft luck
D. Its BQuinn time
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I think you left out rushing for 5oo yards and 5 more rushing tds.. hey, its already happened.

[Bullgator]

I just cant WAIT to see what its going to be around here in november

[topscribe]

I think you left out rushing for 5oo yards and 5 more rushing tds.. hey, its already happened.

Michael Vick and Vince Young got themselves a lot of yards, too. How did that
work out? I mean before they stopped running all over the field and started to
pass as the first option and run the second.

Kordell Stewart, who also is a former running QB, had an interesting viewpoint
in a recent interview with Vic & Gary. He said QBs who don't learn to stay in
the pocket and play the passing game don't last very long in the league. He
ought to know if anybody does . . .

-----

[Bullgator]

Michael Vick and Vince Young got themselves a lot of yards, too. How did that
work out? I mean before they stopped running all over the field and started to
pass as the first option and run the second.

Kordell Stewart, who also is a former running QB, had an interesting viewpoint
in a recent interview with Vic & Gary. He said QBs who don't learn to stay in
the pocket and play the passing game don't last very long in the league. He
ought to know if anybody does . . .

-----

predicting a players failure based on other players failing is as rediculous as predicting a players success on other players.

lets see it straight from the horses(no pun intended) mouth and give him a chance to show what HE can do. Not shut him out and sweep him under the rug like TT never happened.

[KCL]

Top..not a fan of Vick the person but as a player...his scrambling abilities are far above any QB as of late...wish Cassel could get himself moving like that.

[topscribe]

Top..not a fan of Vick the person but as a player...his scrambling abilities are far above any QB as of late...wish Cassel could get himself moving like that.

Yes, but no one considered Vick anywhere close to "elite" until this year. And,
if you have noticed, he has played pass first, run last option.

And the absolute best still has to be Peyton Manning. This guy is a statue back
there, except that he knows how to slip and slide around in the pocket.

But I wouldn't diss Cassel because he's not a runner. The most mobile QB the
Broncos ever had was probably Bradlee Van Pelt. I wonder where he is now . . .

-----

[KCL]

(reserve the right to change my opinion to agree with the following people Top, RC, Red, KC, Carol, Turf, King87, and everyone else not named Bull, at anytime all rights reserved)

BG...KC? As in me...not an Orton/Tebow fan here...just a pathetic Chiefs fan that hangs out on the Broncos board...remember? :D

It doesn't matter to me who starts for the Broncos...they are just 1 team KC plays during the season...I am just hoping there is football this season and hope the Chiefs show more improvement if there is.

Hell..I'll just disagree with all of you.

[KCL]

Yes, but no one considered Vick anywhere close to "elite" until this year. And,
if you have noticed, he has played pass first, run last option.

And the absolute best still has to be Peyton Manning. This guy is a statue back
there, except that he knows how to slip and slide around in the pocket.

But I wouldn't diss Cassel because he's not a runner. The most mobile QB the
Broncos ever had was probably Bradlee Van Pelt. I wonder where he is now . . .

-----
I agree with you on PM...his yelling/pointing at his OL use to bug me.He is a hell of a QB...Not dissing Cassel..he showed improvement but you know there's always room for more.

[topscribe]

I agree with you on PM...his yelling/pointing at his OL use to bug me.He is a hell of a QB...Not dissing Cassel..he showed improvement but you know there's always room for more.

I don't think Cassel's a very good QB. But it's not because he can't run. He
appeared decent this last year because of his strong supporting cast, such as
the #1 running game in the league. IMO.

-----

[rcsodak]

Day1 hasn't been involved in the bullshit that has happened here the last week or so. There was no reason for RC to answer his question in the manner he did. Either answer the question Day1 asked or move on, but don't answer him with some load of horseshit meant only to fan the flames of the bullshit that has happened here the last week or so.

He asked a serious question, he wanted stats. Not some little snarky reply to the rest of the off topic fighting going on in this thread.

Ever heard of the old saying....if you don't have anything good to say, shut up. That fit.

Awwww....public scorn by gem. There goes my teboner again.

And I believe I did answer him with my 1st paragraph.

:coffee:
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[KCL]

I don't think Cassel's a very good QB. But it's not because he can't run. He
appeared decent this last year because of his strong supporting cast, such as
the #1 running game in the league. IMO.

-----

Cassel isn't too bad...not good like PM/TB..but not JaMarcus bad...had to look up his stats..he had a pretty decent season last year.

[rcsodak]

id say ...welcome to the broncos mr Luck
So he's given <12gms to prove his worth?

Wow
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[GEM]

Awwww....public scorn by gem. There goes my teboner again.

And I believe I did answer him with my 1st paragraph.

:coffee.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

:rolleyes:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I'm trying to distance myself from all these Tebow threads, but I can tell you - if Orton starts, and we don't win games, this place will be damn near unbearable.

We won't play our next meaningful game for 6 months at the earliest, and we're already at each others' throats.

Deep breaths, folks. We aren't even playing any games, yet. This is the kind of emotion I expect during the season, not in March...

:behindsofa:

[GEM]

I'm trying to distance myself from all these Tebow threads, but I can tell you - if Orton starts, and we don't win games, this place will be damn near unbearable.

We won't play our next meaningful game for 6 months at the earliest, and we're already at each others' throats.

Deep breaths, folks. We aren't even playing any games, yet. This is the kind of emotion I expect during the season, not in March...

:behindsofa:

Come on, HP.....it isn't a Broncos board unless there is a QB fight going on.

Plummer/Cutler
Cutler/Orton
Orton/Tebow

These fights have been going on for a decade. :sigh:

[rcsodak]

I think you left out rushing for 5oo yards and 5 more rushing tds.. hey, its already happened.

True. But that was pre tape, as others have brought up.
You don't think he'll be played differently?
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[SR]

*the new me*

Yes RC you a right one hundred percent! Gee I sure wish the Broncos would trade Tebow. In fact lets deport him! Hes worthless! Lets play Kyle one more year and then get Luck.

(reserve the right to change my opinion to agree with the following people Top, RC, Red, KC, Carol, Turf, King87, and everyone else not named Bull, at anytime all rights reserved)

In case you were completely unaware, I share the same opinion on Tebow as you do, but I am also not totally bias like you. Please refrain from grouping me in with those you deem "untouchable".

[SR]

Michael Vick and Vince Young got themselves a lot of yards, too. How did that
work out? I mean before they stopped running all over the field and started to
pass as the first option and run the second.

Kordell Stewart, who also is a former running QB, had an interesting viewpoint
in a recent interview with Vic & Gary. He said QBs who don't learn to stay in
the pocket and play the passing game don't last very long in the league. He
ought to know if anybody does . . .

-----

Vince Young and Mike Vick are NOT in the same league.

[SR]

Yes, but no one considered Vick anywhere close to "elite" until this year. And,
if you have noticed, he has played pass first, run last option.

And the absolute best still has to be Peyton Manning. This guy is a statue back
there, except that he knows how to slip and slide around in the pocket.

But I wouldn't diss Cassel because he's not a runner. The most mobile QB the
Broncos ever had was probably Bradlee Van Pelt. I wonder where he is now . . .

-----

Being "elite" is an opinion mostly as a person's legacy isn't usually determined until they're gone. That said, I've always considered Vick to be a damn good player. Last season he showed some things he's never shown, but he has ALWAYS been a top notch athlete and ALWAYS had a damn cannon.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

True. But that was pre tape, as others have brought up.
You don't think he'll be played differently?
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What, did you think other teams didn't realize Elway was a threat to run after how many years? Steve Young? Mike Vick?

It's not like Tebow can't throw the football at all. Is he a prototype pocket passer? Not right now. Does he have the ability to get out of the pocket and make things happen with his legs? Yes.

4 years of "tape" wasn't enough that the teams in the NCAA could ever really stop it. Why is it any different, now? NFL players are bigger/stronger/faster, but it's not like Tebow doesn't have the physical attributes to handle it. Why the double standard? Elway, Cunningham, Young, Vick, etc all had/have the ability to run and it was a huge part of their game, but it won't be for Tebow because with a few games of tape, teams will "shut him down"?

The fact that Tebow has the ability to run, and run with power, should never be seen as a "negative". If teams are trying to scheme that, then there's something they can't compensate for. You can try to game plan for that, but if you have to spy the QB with a LB or DB every passing play because he might run, that's one guy who isn't blitzing and one guy not really playing coverage, either. Advantage: offense.

[SR]

If it were up to me, I would leave Tebow's "mechanics" alone and let him do his thing. The only thing I'd work with him to change is the speed of his wind up/release. Other than that, prototype or not, he has an undeniable ability and people should quit trying to change what made him the type of player he is.

[Bullgator]

If it were up to me, I would leave Tebow's "mechanics" alone and let him do his thing. The only thing I'd work with him to change is the speed of his wind up/release. Other than that, prototype or not, he has an undeniable ability and people should quit trying to change what made him the type of player he is.

:shocked::salute:

[SR]

:shocked::salute:

If you paid the **** attention and quit drawing conclusions/stereotyping, maybe your eyes would be open to more.

[underrated29]

True. But that was pre tape, as others have brought up.
You don't think he'll be played differently?
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by how? Dropping 8 in the box to keep the qb from scrambling? Yeah, that worked well. He will just air it out.


Tape can not stop that. Tape did not stop TD from dominating the league. The only thing to stop TT from running is players tackling him, which as we have seen is really hard to do. No amount of tape is going to help the defense tackle him.


Remember that 4th down against the bolts, where that one guy (forgot his name) stopped TT short and just drilled him head on, but TT gave a second effort and converted it anyway.

[SR]

If I were a corner or safety, a 245 pound QB that can run and dish it out like Tebow can would not be something I'd want to confront.


Holy shit. Can you imagine Steve Atwater taking a run at Tebow?

[Bullgator]

If you paid the **** attention and quit drawing conclusions/stereotyping, maybe your eyes would be open to more.

chalk up another convert to my tally, lets see... thats..... one ;)

[SR]

I'm not a convert. I've never not liked Tebow...just wasn't a fan of the pick initially and still sometimes am not a fan of the pick.

[Bullgator]

all kidding aside thats the problem TT causes for conventional defenses... its now legit 11 on 11 and TT will beat the 11th guy with his arm or his feet.

his redzone success will only get better as he gets more polished and it was damn good to begin with

remember that he avg a TD every 11.36 touches this year... you may say yea but that 1 year in which he played in special packeges only in the red zone, only started 3 games , not enough touches...

but he also avg a TD for every 11.56 touches his entire 4 year college career too. Coincidence? NAR!

[SR]

Ok.

[topscribe]

If I were a corner or safety, a 245 pound QB that can run and dish it out like Tebow can would not be something I'd want to confront.


Holy shit. Can you imagine Steve Atwater taking a run at Tebow?

That's the problem. There are a few Atwaters in the league. And Reeds. And Harrisons. Etc. Etc.

-----

[topscribe]

Being "elite" is an opinion mostly as a person's legacy isn't usually determined until they're gone. That said, I've always considered Vick to be a damn good player. Last season he showed some things he's never shown, but he has ALWAYS been a top notch athlete and ALWAYS had a damn cannon.

I agree. But that was not my point.

-----

[Bullgator]

by how? Dropping 8 in the box to keep the qb from scrambling? Yeah, that worked well. He will just air it out.


Tape can not stop that. Tape did not stop TD from dominating the league. The only thing to stop TT from running is players tackling him, which as we have seen is really hard to do. No amount of tape is going to help the defense tackle him.


Remember that 4th down against the bolts, where that one guy (forgot his name) stopped TT short and just drilled him head on, but TT gave a second effort and converted it anyway.

That guy that met him head on was Brandon Siler, ironically Tebows teamate in college.

[SR]

That's the problem. There are a few Atwaters in the league. And Reeds. And Harrisons. Etc. Etc.

-----

There is not a safety in the NFL that hits like Atwater used to.

[rcsodak]

In case you were completely unaware, I share the same opinion on Tebow as you do, but I am also not totally bias like you. Please refrain from grouping me in with those you deem "untouchable".
Did you really just tell bg he could touch you? :eek:
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[SR]

That's EXACTLY what I said. Moron.

[rcsodak]

What, did you think other teams didn't realize Elway was a threat to run after how many years? Steve Young? Mike Vick?

It's not like Tebow can't throw the football at all. Is he a prototype pocket passer? Not right now. Does he have the ability to get out of the pocket and make things happen with his legs? Yes.

4 years of "tape" wasn't enough that the teams in the NCAA could ever really stop it. Why is it any different, now? NFL players are bigger/stronger/faster, but it's not like Tebow doesn't have the physical attributes to handle it. Why the double standard? Elway, Cunningham, Young, Vick, etc all had/have the ability to run and it was a huge part of their game, but it won't be for Tebow because with a few games of tape, teams will "shut him down"?

The fact that Tebow has the ability to run, and run with power, should never be seen as a "negative". If teams are trying to scheme that, then there's something they can't compensate for. You can try to game plan for that, but if you have to spy the QB with a LB or DB every passing play because he might run, that's one guy who isn't blitzing and one guy not really playing coverage, either. Advantage: offense.
Ok, but I don't equate TT's athletic ability to any of them, except mayb elway. They're faster/elusive.
And my main point of his 'tape', was yeah, he may still get a rushing td here/there, but I don't see him making a bunch of 40yd runs.
And if he does, I wont complain.
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[SR]

Ok, but I don't equate TT's athletic ability to any of them, except mayb elway. They're faster/elusive.
And my main point of his 'tape', was yeah, he may still get a rushing td here/there, but I don't see him making a bunch of 40yd runs.
And if he does, I wont complain.
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He's not supposed to make a bunch of 40 yard runs, but he obviously can. As a QB, his job is to get the ball down field and score points. If he has to do it with his feet AND his arm, so be it.

[rcsodak]

I'm not a convert. I've never not liked Tebow...just wasn't a fan of the pick initially and still sometimes am not a fan of the pick.
I'm just not a fan of the overthetophomers.
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[SR]

Neither am I. I try to approach things realistically. I see the good and bad.

[rcsodak]

There is not a safety in the NFL that hits like Atwater used to.QCarter....plus hands
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[rcsodak]

That's EXACTLY what I said. Moron.
K. Doosh.
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[SR]

Alright, bullgator.

[rcsodak]

Alright, bullgator.
Edit: Douche
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[SR]

Much better.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

You don't 'give' a job to anybody. If Tebow earns it, great. If he doesn't earn it, no way in hell should he automatically be handed the position on a silver platter.

[rcsodak]

Much better.
:elefant:
I knew I ****** up the moment I hit submit......lo ciento, por favor
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[rcsodak]

You don't 'give' a job to anybody. If Tebow earns it, great. If he doesn't earn it, no way in hell should he automatically be handed the position on a silver platter.
:thumb:
Keep posting like that, Ed, and YOU'LL become my 'resident canadian poster'. ; )
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