Kyle Orton's trouble spots

[vandammage13]

From: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/25096/kyle-ortons-trouble-spots


Thanks to Mark Simon of ESPN Stats and Information, let’s breakdown the numbers:

In the fourth quarter when down by eight points or less, Orton completed 50 percent of his passes, which was the sixth worst percentage in the NFL. He had a passer rating of 51.3, which was the tied for the fifth worst in the league. In general, Orton’s completion percentage and passer rating was higher in the first three quarters than they were in the fourth quarter in 2010.

Orton wasn’t much better on third down in 2010. He completed 50 percent of his passes on third down, which was tied for the eighth worst in the league. His passer rating on third down was 58.0. He threw five interceptions on third down.

A quarterback is defined by his performance in key parts of the game. In 2010, Orton was far from a solid pressure player. Overall, Orton is a quality player and he has some value, whether it’s in Denver or not, but these are two key areas he must improve upon next season.

Most of this has already been stated on these boards, but it is information that is out there, and I'm sure other GMs will be leery of passing out a quality draft pick for Orton in lieu of these facts. I think we would do well to get a 4th rounder for him....Clutch play matters. Orton wasn't good when it mattered and there was a chance to win. Not the sort of information that helps his trade value for us.

[Day1BroncoFan]

I bet Orton is good at holding a clipboard.

[Magnificent Seven]

Just trade Orton to Minnesota. I am sold on Tebow. Tim Tebow has a bigger heart for Denver than Orton.

[Northman]

Pretty much what some of us have eluded too as far as Orton is concerned. He's an ok QB, but not a playmaker.

[arapaho2]

I bet Orton is good at holding a clipboard.


dam thats all we need....to see the backup qb feinting and falling on the sidelines everytime a opposing defender nears his position on the sideline

[vandammage13]

Pretty much what some of us have eluded too as far as Orton is concerned. He's an ok QB, but not a playmaker.

To me, he's exactly the type of QB (as far as on field performance) I would want on my roster as a #2. He's the kind of player that can hold the fort down for a week or two in the event your starter is hurt. I just don't like the idea of him being the #1.

Of course, even as a #2 QB, Orton seems to be the kind of guy that isn't willing to accept that role. He sees himself as a starter, and there's nothing wrong with that, except that when he is the #2 he seems to be a malcontent and somewhat of a disruption rather than a team player. (I'm not presenting this as a fact, but just as my personal observations.) It seemed that way when he was benched in favor of Grossman/Griese in Chicago, and it seemed that way when Tebow started the last few games last year.

If he were actually willing to accept the role, Orton could have a very long and successful career in the NFL as a backup.

[dogfish]

wrath of top in 3. . . 2. . . 1. . .



:fear:

[nevcraw]

Give me: it's the Running game and D's fault in 3, 2, 1...

[HORSEPOWER 56]

From: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/25096/kyle-ortons-trouble-spots



Most of this has already been stated on these boards, but it is information that is out there, and I'm sure other GMs will be leery of passing out a quality draft pick for Orton in lieu of these facts. I think we would do well to get a 4th rounder for him....Clutch play matters. Orton wasn't good when it mattered and there was a chance to win. Not the sort of information that helps his trade value for us.

I don't know about a 4th. Charlie Freakin' Whitehurst who had never started a game in the pros was traded for a 3rd. Orton is at least worth that, IMO... and I'm an Orton detractor...

[vandammage13]

I don't know about a 4th. Charlie Freakin' Whitehurst who had never started a game in the pros was traded for a 3rd. Orton is at least worth that, IMO... and I'm an Orton detractor...

True...but you can't base someone overpaying for something as market value.

[rcsodak]

From: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/25096/kyle-ortons-trouble-spots



Most of this has already been stated on these boards, but it is information that is out there, and I'm sure other GMs will be leery of passing out a quality draft pick for Orton in lieu of these facts. I think we would do well to get a 4th rounder for him....Clutch play matters. Orton wasn't good when it mattered and there was a chance to win. Not the sort of information that helps his trade value for us.
Wow...all that without a running game and an oline starting 2 rooks and 3 injured?

Huh! Better than I thought.
:coffee:
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[WARHORSE]

One thing to consider imo.

Kyles strongpoint....playaction.....disappears when the defense knows you have to pass and you have no running game.

[rationalfan]

i also read - can't remember where, at the moment - that orton was sixth worst in the league in 2010 at holding the ball too long. not good for an immobile quarterback.

[Bullgator]

Wow...all that without a running game and an oline starting 2 rooks and 3 injured?

Huh! Better than I thought.
:coffee:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Thats exactly what we would expect KOs mom to say. Your sons a solid backup mam, but thats about it.

[BORDERLINE]

:deadhorse:

[Juriga72]

Wow...all that without a running game and an oline starting 2 rooks and 3 injured?

Huh! Better than I thought.
:coffee:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Hmmmmm For his career........ 6 YEARS he was only 4 qb points UNDER his third down numbers...

Hmmmmmmm......

ALWAYS as bad as we saw.....

[rcsodak]

i also read - can't remember where, at the moment - that orton was sixth worst in the league in 2010 at holding the ball too long. not good for an immobile quarterback.
Does somebody actually sit and count" one_mississippi.....two_mississippi" on every passing down? :eek:
Or are they just going off of sacks?
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[rcsodak]

Thats exactly what we would expect KOs mom to say. Your sons a solid backup mam, but thats about it.

So much for your speel of 'playing nice with others' BS.

Thanks for continually proving Top is right.....again. :coffee:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[topscribe]

I don't know about a 4th. Charlie Freakin' Whitehurst who had never started a game in the pros was traded for a 3rd. Orton is at least worth that, IMO... and I'm an Orton detractor...

C'mon, now, come out of the closet.

You like Orton. You know it. I know it. Everybody knows it. :D

-----

[topscribe]

i also read - can't remember where, at the moment - that orton was sixth worst in the league in 2010 at holding the ball too long. not good for an immobile quarterback.

When you do remember, let me know.

I'd like to analyze how they arrived at that statistic . . .

-----

[horsepig]

Sorry Top, I just can't go there. Orton has no chutzpah. Could he be another Earl Morral type? I really doubt it.

[topscribe]

Sorry Top, I just can't go there. Orton has no chutzpah. Could he be another Earl Morral type? I really doubt it.

Trent Dilfer
Jake Delhomme
Brian Griese

Now Earl Morral.

You guys are really fishing, aren't you?

From the way Orton walks with two legs, has hair on his head, and wears
clothes, if I swore, I would just swear he reminds me of Johnny Unitas . . . :nod:

-----

[BroncoNut]

Sorry Top, I just can't go there. Orton has no chutzpah. Could he be another Earl Morral type? I really doubt it.

don't EVER apologize to Top. He deserves everything he gets.

[topscribe]

don't EVER apologize to Top. He deserves everything he gets.

NUT! And here I thought you didn't love me anymore . . . :love:

-----

[BroncoNut]

NUT! And here I thought you didn't love me anymore . . . :love:

-----

The day I quit loving you is the day you quit blowing Orton

[topscribe]

The day I quit loving you is the day you quit blowing Orton

So then you lied to me, after telling me you didn't want me to have anything more to do with him?

-----

[nevcraw]

:slowly backs away from thread:

[BroncoNut]

So then you lied to me, after telling me you didn't want me to have anything more to do with him?

-----

I never said that Top. drink your prunejuice and be well

[BroncoNut]

:slowly backs away from thread:

As many of my former male lovers have said, " If you cant' stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

[HORSEPOWER 56]

C'mon, now, come out of the closet.

You like Orton. You know it. I know it. Everybody knows it. :D

-----

Actually topper, I do like Orton... the person. That's why it's actually hard for me to bash the player (believe it or not). The comments he made late in the season were a little disheartening but I can't hate him for wanting to start. I'd be more worried if he didn't.

I'm a passionate dude when it comes to the Broncos and I heap way too much blame on Orton for our woes the past 2 years. I know that. Unfortunately, it's been extremely hard for me to separate everything McDaniels has done wrong with trying to be objective about Orton.

He has been my focal point for the disappointment I've felt with the whole team the past 2 years. Is it unfair sometimes? Yep. Kyle isn't the best QB in the league, but he's not the worst, either.

I just want to get the stink of the McDaniels era out of my nose, I guess. From what I've seen. Orton is a product of that system. His play always seemed to go the way of the system/coaching. If McDaniels was having a good day, so was Kyle. Unfortunately, especially near the end, that was few and far between.

I've already resigned myself to the fact that if there's no CBA soon, Kyle will likely be the starter again next year. I'll cheer for him and the team if he is, but I don't think I'll have complete faith in him because he just hasn't proven to me that he merits it. I just don't see in him what you do. It's not hate, it's just a difference of opinion. :D

[topscribe]

I never said that Top. drink your prunejuice and be well

Prune juice, hell.

If you don't want anything more to do with me, then I'll have to turn to Jack.



Jack Daniels . . .



-----

[topscribe]

As many of my former male lovers have said, " If you cant' stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

Kinky . . .

-----

[BroncoNut]

Prune juice, hell.

If you don't want anything more to do with me, then I'll have to turn to Jack.



Jack Daniels . . .



-----

Top, that is poor little me crap and you are better than that. Now stop it

[rcsodak]

Actually topper, I do like Orton... the person. That's why it's actually hard for me to bash the player (believe it or not). The comments he made late in the season were a little disheartening but I can't hate him for wanting to start. I'd be more worried if he didn't.

I'm a passionate dude when it comes to the Broncos and I heap way too much blame on Orton for our woes the past 2 years. I know that. Unfortunately, it's been extremely hard for me to separate everything McDaniels has done wrong with trying to be objective about Orton.

He has been my focal point for the disappointment I've felt with the whole team the past 2 years. Is it unfair sometimes? Yep. Kyle isn't the best QB in the league, but he's not the worst, either.

I just want to get the stink of the McDaniels era out of my nose, I guess. From what I've seen. Orton is a product of that system. His play always seemed to go the way of the system/coaching. If McDaniels was having a good day, so was Kyle. Unfortunately, especially near the end, that was few and far between.

I've already resigned myself to the fact that if there's no CBA soon, Kyle will likely be the starter again next year. I'll cheer for him and the team if he is, but I don't think I'll have complete faith in him because he just hasn't proven to me that he merits it. I just don't see in him what you do. It's not hate, it's just a difference of opinion. :D

Good post, 56.
*whispering* you do know who drafted Timmy, right?:wink:
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[topscribe]

Top, that is poor little me crap and you are better than that. Now stop it

Nut, you can take a flying you-know-what.



For your information, I was into Jack Daniels before you ever kicked me out . . .



-----

[PAINTERDAVE]

And....

if Kyle starts the season... I seriously doubt he finishes the season.

Which sucks..
because Tebow's development needs to be

-full camp
-reps with the first team
-game plan for his skill set
-expectations and confidence of being the starter
-full support of the team.

That is what would be optimum for Tebow's development.

Instead thanks to the dang CBA mess...

we will probably have no camp...
limited free agency...
etc, etc, etc

and waste the first half of yet ANOTHER throwaway season on Orton...
instead of using it to develop our future QB.

Tebow will be thrown to the wolves... again...
and we can only hope for the best at that point.

If I think about it for any length of time...
I start to get VERY pissed about the whole situation.
so I try to think happy thoughts.

Any other year... Orton would already be traded...
and another vet brought in as backup...
all our ducks would be in order PRIOR to the draft.

The 2011 Broncos are one of the couple of teams getting absolutly screwed
by the players/owners above all other teams...
precisely because of the things we talk of here daily.

The other teams (Pats, Jets, Pack etc) at least can go ahead on with what they already have in place.

Us and Carolina... we've got bupkiss.

[BroncoNut]

I see Orton staring and Tebow taking over game 7. Mark it folks

[topscribe]

Actually topper, I do like Orton... the person. That's why it's actually hard for me to bash the player (believe it or not). The comments he made late in the season were a little disheartening but I can't hate him for wanting to start. I'd be more worried if he didn't.

I'm a passionate dude when it comes to the Broncos and I heap way too much blame on Orton for our woes the past 2 years. I know that. Unfortunately, it's been extremely hard for me to separate everything McDaniels has done wrong with trying to be objective about Orton.

He has been my focal point for the disappointment I've felt with the whole team the past 2 years. Is it unfair sometimes? Yep. Kyle isn't the best QB in the league, but he's not the worst, either.

I just want to get the stink of the McDaniels era out of my nose, I guess. From what I've seen. Orton is a product of that system. His play always seemed to go the way of the system/coaching. If McDaniels was having a good day, so was Kyle. Unfortunately, especially near the end, that was few and far between.

I've already resigned myself to the fact that if there's no CBA soon, Kyle will likely be the starter again next year. I'll cheer for him and the team if he is, but I don't think I'll have complete faith in him because he just hasn't proven to me that he merits it. I just don't see in him what you do. It's not hate, it's just a difference of opinion. :D

Well, my friend, there may be a little disagreement in there, but not much.
I haven't said much about Orton's flaws and mistakes because there have
been plenty of bashers on this board who took care of that for me . . . and
then some.

But Kyle has a few things to prove to me, this year, too. He has just got to
improve in his 3rd down conversions and in his red zone performance. Now,
I believe an improvement in the running game will help him significantly, but
then it is up to him. He's got to do it.

There. I said it. I feel like I just jilted a lover . . .

-----

[PAINTERDAVE]

It's all for the best, Top...

he was only gonna break your heart... AGAIN... anyway.

[topscribe]

It's all for the best, Top...

he was only gonna break your heart... AGAIN... anyway.

If you don't have any good news, Dave . . . then, go away . . . :pout:

-----

[dogfish]

I see Orton staring and Tebow taking over game 7. Mark it folks

well, nut, seven is an auspicious number for denver quarterbacks. . .

[PAINTERDAVE]

I see Orton staring and Tebow taking over game 7. Mark it folks

When is the bye week?

I kinda expect them to re-tool for Tebow during the bye...
IF... we get saddled with Kyle to start the season.

(Had McDaniels done so last season... he'd of saved his job)

[BroncoStud]

Orton won't be on the roster, too much money and controversy... If he starts one game we will hear nothing but Tebow chants, and rightfully so.

Oddly enough, the times when he actually has a solid running game he is simply mediocre. I don't buy the whole "well he'd be good if he had a running game..." story...

Let him go and get a fresh start somewhere else. We can and will do better.

[jhildebrand]

In other news gas is expensive :coffee:

Now maybe the Orton supporters will objectively look at Orton's limitations. Limitations that were present even in a 6-0 start meaning you can't blame this year exclusively.

[BroncoNut]

When is the bye week?

I kinda expect them to re-tool for Tebow during the bye...
IF... we get saddled with Kyle to start the season.

(Had McDaniels done so last season... he'd of saved his job)

not sure PD, but good point. I was being generous with that prediction. I almost said game 4, but that is foolish.

[BroncoNut]

well, nut, seven is an auspicious number for denver quarterbacks. . .

well dog. Maybe you should take a backseat here and let me handle this one. :lol:

[topscribe]

In other news gas is expensive :coffee:

Now maybe the Orton supporters will objectively look at Orton's limitations. Limitations that were present even in a 6-0 start meaning you can't blame this year exclusively.

You are getting unrealistic expectations, J. I just mentioned a couple things
Orton needed to work on. I did not say my stand has changed. Even the great
John Elway had to work on some things before he could realize his upside, such
as not throwing the ball so hard it goes through the hands of the receiver and
putting more arch and touch into passes to cut down on the interceptions he
was throwing, early in his career.

Now, since you all seem to be throwing around your predictions, I'll give you
mine. If the defense improves enough to rank somewhere in the middle of the
pack -- and having Fox and Allen as coaches and probably Fairley or Dareus
plus Doom joining the D-line will make that possible -- and the running game
does likewise -- which it began to pick up a little last year -- ditto pass
protection:

Then Tebow will not see the field this next year during the regular season,
except perhaps in the latter stages of blowouts. Orton will quarterback the
team into the playoffs and will be named a Pro Bowl alternate. IMO.

You heard it here first . . . :coffee:

-----

[BroncoNut]

You are getting unrealistic expectations, J. I just mentioned a couple things
Orton needed to work on. I did not say my stand has changed. Even the great
John Elway had to work on some things before he could realize his upside, such
as not throwing the ball so hard it goes through the hands of the receiver and
putting more arch and touch into passes to cut down on the interceptions he
was throwing, early in his career.

Now, since you all seem to be throwing around your predictions, I'll give you
mine. If the defense improves enough to rank somewhere in the middle of the
pack -- and having Fox and Allen as coaches and probably Fairley or Dareus
plus Doom joining the D-line will make that possible -- and the running game
does likewise -- which it began to pick up a little last year -- ditto pass
protection:

Then Tebow will not see the field this next year during the regular season,
except perhaps in the latter stages of blowouts. Orton will quarterback the
team into the playoffs and will be named a Pro Bowl alternate. IMO.

You heard it here first . . . :coffee:

-----

If I could put a thumbs down to this post, I would a million times over. Didn't read it yet though.

[BroncoNut]

You are getting unrealistic expectations, J. I just mentioned a couple things
Orton needed to work on. I did not say my stand has changed. Even the great
John Elway had to work on some things before he could realize his upside, such
as not throwing the ball so hard it goes through the hands of the receiver and
putting more arch and touch into passes to cut down on the interceptions he
was throwing, early in his career.

Now, since you all seem to be throwing around your predictions, I'll give you
mine. If the defense improves enough to rank somewhere in the middle of the
pack -- and having Fox and Allen as coaches and probably Fairley or Dareus
plus Doom joining the D-line will make that possible -- and the running game
does likewise -- which it began to pick up a little last year -- ditto pass
protection:

Then Tebow will not see the field this next year during the regular season,
except perhaps in the latter stages of blowouts. Orton will quarterback the
team into the playoffs and will be named a Pro Bowl alternate. IMO.

You heard it here first . . . :coffee:

-----

alright Top. ballsy post, but alright, I will keep that in mind. truth of the matter is though Top, Orton NEEDS all of that to even be in view. He's too mechanical to do much more than you predicted, and also, he's a nine year vet, so the comments on working on some things is rather vapid. Just my take.

[BroncoStud]

Orton is going to the Pro Bowl now?? IF by some miracle (to Orton and Top only) Kyle manages to stay on this roster he will surely fall victim to yet another hidden and unfortunate injury, the sort that has plagued him his entire NFL career. If the NFL goes to an 18 game season, Orton might as well mail it in, his limit seems to be about 12.

[sneakers]

dam thats all we need....to see the backup qb feinting and falling on the sidelines everytime a opposing defender nears his position on the sideline

http://gallery.fanserviceftw.com/_images/d7c5af469631a306186e3a9b7a689a5c/247%20-%20animated_gif%20fainting%20goats.gif

[topscribe]

alright Top. ballsy post, but alright, I will keep that in mind. truth of the matter is though Top, Orton NEEDS all of that to even be in view. He's too mechanical to do much more than you predicted, and also, he's a nine year vet, so the comments on working on some things is rather vapid. Just my take.

Where did you get that, Nut? Figure it out: Orton was drafted in 2005. Sounds
like a 6-year vet to me. Moreover, he never saw the field for two of those,
except for three games, so that makes him, in effect, a four-year vet on the
field.

Now, I'm not sure I've ever heard of the QB who didn't need to work on some
things. Has God ever been a QB?

-----

[topscribe]

If I could put a thumbs down to this post, I would a million times over. Didn't read it yet though.

Thumbs down, even though you didn't read the post, Nut?

That's it. I'm going home to mother.

-----

[Bullgator]

I wonder whats going to happen in about 2 weeks or less when KO is no longer a Bronco.

I guess Top and Co. will have to change over to B.Q. that will be interesting.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I wonder whats going to happen in about 2 weeks or less when KO is no longer a Bronco.

I guess Top and Co. will have to change over to B.Q. that will be interesting.

I pray that the CBA deal gets done and we trade Orton, too.

However, Gator... Top is a great fan...

... he is loyal to Orton... the Broncos starter for a season and 3/4's
(And now in the offseason according to the Team)

When Orton is gone...
Top and RC and all of us will throw our full support behind the new Starting QB.

But right now... the FO tells us Orton is the starter.

We are Broncos fans through and through.

Heck... If the 2011 Broncos are foolish enough to keep and start Orton...
I'll support the team... and root for wins...
even though I think the best thing is to develop the kid.

Let's all make like Rodney King and "get along".

[Bullgator]

I pray that the CBA deal gets done and we trade Orton, too.

However, Gator... Top is a great fan...

... he is loyal to Orton... the Broncos starter for a season and 3/4's
(And now in the offseason according to the Team)

When Orton is gone...
Top and RC and all of us will throw our full support behind the new Starting QB.

But right now... the FO tells us Orton is the starter.

We are Broncos fans through and through.

Heck... If the 2011 Broncos are foolish enough to keep and start Orton...
I'll support the team... and root for wins...
even though I think the best thing is to develop the kid.

Let's all make like Rodney King and "get along".

Well maybe not just like Rodney, Im fresh outta PCP. But I feel you man.. Ill do my best- You and a few others been cool enough to warrent that. I cant make any promises for anyone else.

As for the CBA yea man the owners are stick-a-fork-in-em done. I get the feeling there will be 1 more extention for 1 week to hammer out the big points like the 18 games and the final billion in revenues, but the last thing the owners want is for the CBA to be put in Doty's player freindly hands.

The players were happy with the way things were already... as long as they dont get crazy greedy, we will put this behind us and watch all the trades go down... including KO

BTW I think it would make perfect sense to send KO to carolina. we would love it because Fox knows that team well and could cherry pick some talent off em and they would love it also so they dont have to waste another pick on a QB.

I still think Vikings are a done deal though. CBA=KO+McD together again.

[Northman]

You are getting unrealistic expectations, J. I just mentioned a couple things
Orton needed to work on. I did not say my stand has changed. Even the great
John Elway had to work on some things before he could realize his upside, such
as not throwing the ball so hard it goes through the hands of the receiver and
putting more arch and touch into passes to cut down on the interceptions he
was throwing, early in his career.

Now, since you all seem to be throwing around your predictions, I'll give you
mine. If the defense improves enough to rank somewhere in the middle of the
pack -- and having Fox and Allen as coaches and probably Fairley or Dareus
plus Doom joining the D-line will make that possible -- and the running game
does likewise -- which it began to pick up a little last year -- ditto pass
protection:

Then Tebow will not see the field this next year during the regular season,
except perhaps in the latter stages of blowouts. Orton will quarterback the
team into the playoffs and will be named a Pro Bowl alternate. IMO.

You heard it here first . . . :coffee:

-----


Ill take that bet. :D

[Northman]

I pray that the CBA deal gets done and we trade Orton, too.

However, Gator... Top is a great fan...

... he is loyal to Orton... the Broncos starter for a season and 3/4's
(And now in the offseason according to the Team)

When Orton is gone...
Top and RC and all of us will throw our full support behind the new Starting QB.

But right now... the FO tells us Orton is the starter.

We are Broncos fans through and through.

Heck... If the 2011 Broncos are foolish enough to keep and start Orton...
I'll support the team... and root for wins...
even though I think the best thing is to develop the kid.

Let's all make like Rodney King and "get along".

Yea, but Rodney King was on drugs and a lunatic. Just saying.....:coffee:

[rcsodak]

Well maybe not just like Rodney, Im fresh outta PCP. But I feel you man.. Ill do my best- You and a few others been cool enough to warrent that. I cant make any promises for anyone else.

As for the CBA yea man the owners are stick-a-fork-in-em done. I get the feeling there will be 1 more extention for 1 week to hammer out the big points like the 18 games and the final billion in revenues, but the last thing the owners want is for the CBA to be put in Doty's player freindly hands.

The players were happy with the way things were already... as long as they dont get crazy greedy, we will put this behind us and watch all the trades go down... including KO

BTW I think it would make perfect sense to send KO to carolina. we would love it because Fox knows that team well and could cherry pick some talent off em and they would love it also so they dont have to waste another pick on a QB.

I still think Vikings are a done deal though. CBA=KO+McD together again.
McD is in St Louis last I looked. :coffee:
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[vandammage13]

Wow...all that without a running game and an oline starting 2 rooks and 3 injured?

Huh! Better than I thought.
:coffee:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

You are missing the point. Orton did worse on 3rd downs and in close games during the 4th quarter than he did with that same offensive line and same running game he had during the first 3 quarters and on 1st and second down.

The whole running game argument doesn't hold much water, because the numbers show that Orton is just as bad, if not worse, when he has a solid running game at his disposal.

[SOCALORADO.]

You are getting unrealistic expectations, J. I just mentioned a couple things
Orton needed to work on. I did not say my stand has changed. Even the great
John Elway had to work on some things before he could realize his upside, such
as not throwing the ball so hard it goes through the hands of the receiver and
putting more arch and touch into passes to cut down on the interceptions he
was throwing, early in his career.

Now, since you all seem to be throwing around your predictions, I'll give you
mine. If the defense improves enough to rank somewhere in the middle of the
pack -- and having Fox and Allen as coaches and probably Fairley or Dareus
plus Doom joining the D-line will make that possible -- and the running game
does likewise -- which it began to pick up a little last year -- ditto pass
protection:

Then Tebow will not see the field this next year during the regular season,
except perhaps in the latter stages of blowouts. Orton will quarterback the
team into the playoffs and will be named a Pro Bowl alternate. IMO.

You heard it here first . . . :coffee:

-----

I guess you could be right. But you could also flip this and say that BECAUSE of these changes, that they are all the more reason(s) that TT would see the field, and Fox and Co. would not hesitate to deal Orton.
Who knows, lets just have a really good draft and go from there!

[PAINTERDAVE]

Yea, but Rodney King was on drugs and a lunatic. Just saying.....:coffee:

Like half of the posters on this board....:lol:

[topscribe]

I guess you could be right. But you could also flip this and say that BECAUSE of these changes, that they are all the more reason(s) that TT would see the field, and Fox and Co. would not hesitate to deal Orton.
Who knows, lets just have a really good draft and go from there!

I see your point, but it doesn't make sense it would happen that way. Whatever
QB starts will be because of that QB's play with the same supporting cast,
whatever that cast will be. What will be determined by a better running game
and defense will be the the W-L record, regardless of who that QB is. So those
factors will not decide who starts at QB, IMO . . .

-----

[arapaho2]

When is the bye week?

I kinda expect them to re-tool for Tebow during the bye...
IF... we get saddled with Kyle to start the season.

(Had McDaniels done so last season... he'd of saved his job)


thank god he didnt then:elefant:

[arapaho2]

You are getting unrealistic expectations, J. I just mentioned a couple things
Orton needed to work on. I did not say my stand has changed. Even the great
John Elway had to work on some things before he could realize his upside, such
as not throwing the ball so hard it goes through the hands of the receiver and
putting more arch and touch into passes to cut down on the interceptions he
was throwing, early in his career.

Now, since you all seem to be throwing around your predictions, I'll give you
mine. If the defense improves enough to rank somewhere in the middle of the
pack -- and having Fox and Allen as coaches and probably Fairley or Dareus
plus Doom joining the D-line will make that possible -- and the running game
does likewise -- which it began to pick up a little last year -- ditto pass
protection:

Then Tebow will not see the field this next year during the regular season,
except perhaps in the latter stages of blowouts. Orton will quarterback the
team into the playoffs and will be named a Pro Bowl alternate. IMO.

You heard it here first . . . :coffee:

-----


in other words ....orton needs the stars and planets to align....for nature to become balanced....for ying to be equal to yang....before he can become a great qb...gee top i guess thats not to much to ask :lol:

[SOCALORADO.]

I see your point, but it doesn't make sense it would happen that way. Whatever
QB starts will be because of that QB's play with the same supporting cast,
whatever that cast will be. What will be determined by a better running game
and defense will be the the W-L record, regardless of who that QB is. So those
factors will not decide who starts at QB, IMO . . .

-----

Put pipe down.
Pick up phone.
Dial 911.
Tell them you are a 5150.
Wait for assistance.

[topscribe]

in other words ....orton needs the stars and planets to align....for nature to become balanced....for ying to be equal to yang....before he can become a great qb...gee top i guess thats not to much to ask :lol:


Put pipe down.
Pick up phone.
Dial 911.
Tell them you are a 5150.
Wait for assistance.

And here we have what many on this board may consider scintillating rebuttals . . . :coffee:

-----

[topscribe]

thank god he didnt then:elefant:

Personally, I don't think God cares much about all this . . .

-----

[SR]

You are getting unrealistic expectations, J. I just mentioned a couple things
Orton needed to work on. I did not say my stand has changed. Even the great
John Elway had to work on some things before he could realize his upside, such
as not throwing the ball so hard it goes through the hands of the receiver and
putting more arch and touch into passes to cut down on the interceptions he
was throwing, early in his career.

Now, since you all seem to be throwing around your predictions, I'll give you
mine. If the defense improves enough to rank somewhere in the middle of the
pack -- and having Fox and Allen as coaches and probably Fairley or Dareus
plus Doom joining the D-line will make that possible -- and the running game
does likewise -- which it began to pick up a little last year -- ditto pass
protection:

Then Tebow will not see the field this next year during the regular season,
except perhaps in the latter stages of blowouts. Orton will quarterback the
team into the playoffs and will be named a Pro Bowl alternate. IMO.

You heard it here first . . . :coffee:

-----


I had to hold back giggles reading this.

[SR]

Where did you get that, Nut? Figure it out: Orton was drafted in 2005. Sounds
like a 6-year vet to me. Moreover, he never saw the field for two of those,
except for three games, so that makes him, in effect, a four-year vet on the
field.

Now, I'm not sure I've ever heard of the QB who didn't need to work on some
things. Has God ever been a QB?

-----

God? No. But Peyton Manning is a QB.

[topscribe]

God? No. But Peyton Manning is a QB.

I don't know what it is about Manning, but he should wear a red cape.

I remember Orton's Wednesday presser before the Colts game. Someone from
the press asked him something to the effect of whether he expected a shootout
with Manning. Orton shot back, "Peyton Manning is a Hall of Fame quarterback."

You made a good point here, my friend. But there is today one, and one only,
Peyton Manning. Then there are the rest . . .

-----

[Ravage!!!]

I just know I get absolutely no excitement, nor hope, when Orton is our QB. I have almost a tone of 'shame' if I have to mention his name as our starting QB when talking football with friends.

Plummer used to make me cringe when he dropped back to pass, Cutler used to keep me on the edge of my seat, but Orton just makes me yawn.

Although I personally don't think Tebow is going to be a good NFL QB, and in my heart hope that we get a shot at Andrew Luck, Tim at least gives me something to watch with interest and hope of excitement.

[SOCALORADO.]

And here we have what many on this board may consider scintillating rebuttals . . . :coffee:

-----

Calm down top...calm down.
http://www.imbringingbloggingback.com/wp-content//jersey-shore-jwoww-punch-situation.jpg

[BroncoNut]

Where did you get that, Nut? Figure it out: Orton was drafted in 2005. Sounds
like a 6-year vet to me. Moreover, he never saw the field for two of those,
except for three games, so that makes him, in effect, a four-year vet on the
field.

Now, I'm not sure I've ever heard of the QB who didn't need to work on some
things. Has God ever been a QB?

-----

O.K. my math was a bit off, seems like he's been around forever. I don't thik he's going to be that good, O.k? He just lacks that "it" factor.

[broncofaninfla]

If we can get a 3rd or better for Orton I really think they need to trade him. I've seen enough to know he is not the future of this team. A 3rd or better gives the team a chance to upgrade at one of the many holes left to fill after the failed Mcd experiment.

Tebow is raw but he was a bigger threat as a QB than Orton in his limited play last year. It's Tebow time.

[BroncoNut]

And here we have what many on this board may consider scintillating rebuttals . . . :coffee:

-----

:lol: you said "butt"

[BroncoStud]

Orton's trouble spots:

Mobility (or therelackof)

Durability (He's been "injured" in every season as a pro, except when he sat on the bench in Chicago while Grossman led them to a Super Bowl)

Arm Strength (Though it has improved it still lacks in throws between 15-20 yards, he just doesn't have a strong arm, never will)

Holding the ball too long (This is a combination of having no mobility and limited arm strength, it's simply a byproduct)

Clutch (The guy is at his worst on 3rd down and in the redzone or basically when the team needs him to be his best)

Leadership (or therelackof)

Conditioning (The guy can't run, can't stay healthy, and fades at the end of the season, either he's terribly unlucky or he needs to work harder)



Orton's strengths:

Accuracy (He is accurate with the football if he has time to throw)

Understanding of McDaniels system (With McDouche gone we don't know how well Orton will adapt to a new playbook but he knew the other one very well, he has yet to flourish in any other system than the spread)



Good luck to whoever gets him, he's an elite backup but not an NFL starter.

[topscribe]

O.K. my math was a bit off, seems like he's been around forever. I don't thik he's going to be that good, O.k? He just lacks that "it" factor.

That's the key word: "think." I'm not sure just what an "it factor" is, are you?
That is so subjective, not worth arguing about, really . . .


Anyway, I've said what I have to say. No need to post any further in this thread,
or even look at it since it's the same old thing over and over again. So, thanks
everyone for playing. I'm shutting this down, going to concentrate on other, more
productive issues, hopefully. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

[arapaho2]

Personally, I don't think God cares much about all this . . .

-----


didnt ask god for his opinion...i said "thank god":coffee:

[SR]

I don't know what it is about Manning, but he should wear a red cape.

I remember Orton's Wednesday presser before the Colts game. Someone from
the press asked him something to the effect of whether he expected a shootout
with Manning. Orton shot back, "Peyton Manning is a Hall of Fame quarterback."

You made a good point here, my friend. But there is today one, and one only,
Peyton Manning. Then there are the rest . . .

-----

IMO, Peyton Manning's picture should be next to "quarterback" in the dictionary. He is, in my opinion, the best QB to play in the NFL. Ever.

[SR]

That's the key word: "think." I'm not sure just what an "it factor" is, are you?
That is so subjective, not worth arguing about, really . . .


Anyway, I've said what I have to say. No need to post any further in this thread,
or even look at it since it's the same old thing over and over again. So, thanks
everyone for playing. I'm shutting this down, going to concentrate on other, more
productive issues, hopefully. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

I know what the "it" factor is. It's sandwiched between "Tim" and "Tebow".

[dogfish]

IMO, Peyton Manning's picture should be next to "quarterback" in the dictionary. He is, in my opinion, the best QB to play in the NFL. Ever.

go back and watch dan marino-- he was manning before all the rules changes that favor offenses so heavily. . .

[SR]

I watched Marino...

[BroncoStud]

go back and watch dan marino-- he was manning before all the rules changes that favor offenses so heavily. . .

He was Manning with a stronger arm and a quicker release.

[rcsodak]

IMO, Peyton Manning's picture should be next to "quarterback" in the dictionary. He is, in my opinion, the best QB to play in the NFL. Ever.

Its the system
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[BroncoNut]

IMO, Peyton Manning's picture should be next to "quarterback" in the dictionary. He is, in my opinion, the best QB to play in the NFL. Ever.

Tom Brady > Peyton Manning

[vandammage13]

He was Manning with a stronger arm and a quicker release.

And better mobility inside the pocket.

[SR]

Mobility isn't that big of a deal. Manning is mobile enough.

[BroncoStud]

And better mobility inside the pocket.

Yeah, until that achillies tear, then he was a statue. 1984 - 1990 Dan Marino was pretty unstoppable, and he did it without a running game or a great defense.

[NightTerror218]

Orton's trouble spots:

Mobility (or therelackof)

Durability (He's been "injured" in every season as a pro, except when he sat on the bench in Chicago while Grossman led them to a Super Bowl)

Arm Strength (Though it has improved it still lacks in throws between 15-20 yards, he just doesn't have a strong arm, never will)

Holding the ball too long (This is a combination of having no mobility and limited arm strength, it's simply a byproduct)

Clutch (The guy is at his worst on 3rd down and in the redzone or basically when the team needs him to be his best)

Leadership (or therelackof)

Conditioning (The guy can't run, can't stay healthy, and fades at the end of the season, either he's terribly unlucky or he needs to work harder)



Orton's strengths:

Accuracy (He is accurate with the football if he has time to throw)

Understanding of McDaniels system (With McDouche gone we don't know how well Orton will adapt to a new playbook but he knew the other one very well, he has yet to flourish in any other system than the spread)



Good luck to whoever gets him, he's an elite backup but not an NFL starter.


He showed he has some arm strength that last season. He led the NFL in beginning of the season with 20+ yrd passes.

[SR]

But we still weren't winning games, so that doesn't amount to much.

[BroncoStud]

He showed he has some arm strength that last season. He led the NFL in beginning of the season with 20+ yrd passes.

That isn't arm strength... Any NFL QB can throw up prayers to Brandon Lloyd, even Tebow did it. Arm strength is zipping a ball in there on a 20 yard out or throwing a 25 yard dig and fitting it into tight coverage.

That 20+ yards deal is misleading, over half of the deep passes he completed to Lloyd were wide open and burned coverage. Stand him up next to Manning or Brady and have him throw a 45 yard post alongside them and then reevaluate his arm strength.

[SR]

Vinny Testaverde pwns all in arm strength.

[BroncoStud]

Can't touch Vinny. He's a beast.

[vandammage13]

Yeah, until that achillies tear, then he was a statue. 1984 - 1990 Dan Marino was pretty unstoppable, and he did it without a running game or a great defense.

Nah, he could still move around back there pretty good and make people miss after the achilles injury. Marino was probably the best QB ever in that regard, even up until his last season.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Orton's trouble spots:

Mobility (or therelackof)

Durability (He's been "injured" in every season as a pro, except when he sat on the bench in Chicago while Grossman led them to a Super Bowl)

Arm Strength (Though it has improved it still lacks in throws between 15-20 yards, he just doesn't have a strong arm, never will)

Holding the ball too long (This is a combination of having no mobility and limited arm strength, it's simply a byproduct)

Clutch (The guy is at his worst on 3rd down and in the redzone or basically when the team needs him to be his best)

Leadership (or therelackof)

Conditioning (The guy can't run, can't stay healthy, and fades at the end of the season, either he's terribly unlucky or he needs to work harder)

Orton's strengths:

Accuracy (He is accurate with the football if he has time to throw)

Understanding of McDaniels system (With McDouche gone we don't know how well Orton will adapt to a new playbook but he knew the other one very well, he has yet to flourish in any other system than the spread)

Good luck to whoever gets him, he's an elite backup but not an NFL starter.

Where is the category for Phantom Sacks?