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cuzz4169
03-06-2011, 11:36 AM
Figured I'd post this.

The Denver Broncos say Kyle Orton is their starting quarterback. The Minnesota Vikings don’t know who their starting quarterback is. But the Vikings reportedly considered trying to pry Orton away from the Broncos.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/06/report-vikings-considered-orton-think-webb-is-nowhere-close/

Northman
03-06-2011, 11:37 AM
I would give them Orton for a 4th and 5th rounder.

chazoe60
03-06-2011, 11:42 AM
I'd give them a 4th to take him.

cuzz4169
03-06-2011, 11:44 AM
I'd give them a 4th to take him.

hahahaha even better!!!

Northman
03-06-2011, 11:55 AM
I'd give them a 4th to take him.

I dont think we have a 4th to give. :lol:

vettesplus
03-06-2011, 12:12 PM
I'd give them a 4th to take him.


then what are you going to do.......:confused:

topscribe
03-06-2011, 12:18 PM
I dont think we have a 4th to give. :lol:

Desperate people do desperate things . . . :laugh:

-----

Bullgator
03-06-2011, 12:23 PM
Carolina needs a solid QB... and Fox knows that team in and out- he could cherry pick some good value out of there.

BroncoStud
03-06-2011, 01:32 PM
Trade him for a 7th and get it done.

hamrob
03-06-2011, 01:42 PM
The only problem with trading away Orton is that you need a veteran QB on staff. The guys we might consider after trading Orton:

Hassleback
Bulger
Pennington
K. Collins

I do believe we should get rid of Orton. Would he be our best option for the upcoming season? Maybe. But, he's not our future and we need someone who will bring Tebow along...not, separate himself from him. An older Vet who is finished starting in the league, but could go in and win a couple games if needed would be ideal. Brady Quinn is a question mark. He's a kid with alot of talent...but, doesn't seem to be a quality starting prospect or a guy to give tips to a young gun either. He's kind of a wild card at best.

hamrob
03-06-2011, 01:44 PM
Anything less that a 3rd or a 4th plus a player for Orton....would be a rip off in my opinion. He's a guy who can start and be a top 15 guy. No rookie or slouch can do that. He's not going to outplay Manning or Brady, but he's solid....when you have a defense and running game to work with.

PAINTERDAVE
03-06-2011, 02:05 PM
If the CBA were a done deal....

I bet Orton would be a Viking right now.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-06-2011, 04:53 PM
The only problem with trading away Orton is that you need a veteran QB on staff. The guys we might consider after trading Orton:

Hassleback
Bulger
Pennington
K. Collins

I do believe we should get rid of Orton. Would he be our best option for the upcoming season? Maybe. But, he's not our future and we need someone who will bring Tebow along...not, separate himself from him. An older Vet who is finished starting in the league, but could go in and win a couple games if needed would be ideal. Brady Quinn is a question mark. He's a kid with alot of talent...but, doesn't seem to be a quality starting prospect or a guy to give tips to a young gun either. He's kind of a wild card at best.

Isn't Brady Quinn a veteran? Hasn't he been in the league almost as long as Orton? I'd rather trade Orton, promote Quinn to #2 and then look to a journeyman or UDFA for our #3 QB. Why more money than needed? Quinn would be fine as Tebow's backup. I think Quinn is a lot more talented than people give him credit for. He just had to play for the worst offense in the league prior to Denver. His trade value isn't there, so he stays put. Orton is more valuable now than his original draft position so he should be traded ASAP.

Dzone
03-06-2011, 05:02 PM
Good to know the bidding for Orton has started. Thats a good sign that he will be gone along with his surly Cutler-esque attitude
Would love to see that left handed QB for the jets, Mark Brunell, come to Denver for a year to tutor Tebow. That dude was a damn good left handed QB in his heyday. He schooled us in 1996 playoffs at Mile High. The worst defeat in the history of the franchise. He would be perfect here.

rcsodak
03-06-2011, 05:26 PM
Good to know the bidding for Orton has started. Thats a good sign that he will be gone along with his surly Cutler-esque attitude
Would love to see that left handed QB for the jets, Mark Brunell, come to Denver for a year to tutor Tebow. That dude was a damn good left handed QB in his heyday. He schooled us in 1996 playoffs at Mile High. The worst defeat in the history of the franchise. He would be perfect here.
Brunell turns 100 this summer.
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BroncoStud
03-06-2011, 05:43 PM
Anything less that a 3rd or a 4th plus a player for Orton....would be a rip off in my opinion. He's a guy who can start and be a top 15 guy. No rookie or slouch can do that. He's not going to outplay Manning or Brady, but he's solid....when you have a defense and running game to work with.

Top 15? Seriously? Come on... Even after his "prolific" 3 win season his stats were mediocre running a spread offense. We will be LUCKY to fetch a 4th rounder.

TXBRONC
03-06-2011, 06:41 PM
Top 15? Seriously? Come on... Even after his "prolific" 3 win season his stats were mediocre running a spread offense. We will be LUCKY to fetch a 4th rounder.

I'm not a big defender of Orton but I do my best give him credit were I think credit is due. Quaterbacks are judged on wins and losses so imo he fair game on that front and as I mentioned he doesn't put up a lot points which also fair game. But to paint all of his stats as mediocre just isn't accurate.

vettesplus
03-06-2011, 07:03 PM
Isn't Brady Quinn a veteran? Hasn't he been in the league almost as long as Orton? I'd rather trade Orton, promote Quinn to #2 and then look to a journeyman or UDFA for our #3 QB. Why more money than needed? Quinn would be fine as Tebow's backup. I think Quinn is a lot more talented than people give him credit for. He just had to play for the worst offense in the league prior to Denver. His trade value isn't there, so he stays put. Orton is more valuable now than his original draft position so he should be traded ASAP.

so if you trade orton and put quinn as # 2 who is your starter????

HORSEPOWER 56
03-06-2011, 07:07 PM
so if you trade orton and put quinn as # 2 who is your starter????

Umm, perhaps you were unaware that there was a 3rd party who started the last three games of the season for us whose name wasn't Orton or Quinn...

That guy.

Kapaibro
03-06-2011, 07:18 PM
I'll throw in a bag of Doritos if the Viks take him off our hands!

MileHighCrew
03-06-2011, 08:08 PM
If we can get rid of the 8 mil contract it is a win, no matter what we get back

dogfish
03-06-2011, 08:32 PM
so if you trade orton and put quinn as # 2 who is your starter????

:confused:



:whoknows:

FanInAZ
03-06-2011, 08:46 PM
I dont think we have a 4th to give. :lol:

If the Broncos can pull of that trade, maybe they could then sell the Vikes the ocean front property next to my brother's...





...in Pueblo.

Don't laugh. You all do remember that they bought Hershel Walker, right?

hamrob
03-06-2011, 10:13 PM
Isn't Brady Quinn a veteran? Hasn't he been in the league almost as long as Orton? I'd rather trade Orton, promote Quinn to #2 and then look to a journeyman or UDFA for our #3 QB. Why more money than needed? Quinn would be fine as Tebow's backup. I think Quinn is a lot more talented than people give him credit for. He just had to play for the worst offense in the league prior to Denver. His trade value isn't there, so he stays put. Orton is more valuable now than his original draft position so he should be traded ASAP.Did you watch the preseason this past year?

Hey, I had high hopes for Quinn when we got him. The guy has all the measurements you could want. Heck he even has the Elway pigeon toe stance. But, he throws grenades. The guy looks terrible. We'll see this next camp how well he does. But, he was a huge disapointment in my mind.

tubby
03-06-2011, 11:33 PM
Why would the Broncos trade the best QB on their roster?

BORDERLINE
03-06-2011, 11:42 PM
Why would the Broncos trade the best QB on their roster?

Ha!! that's funny:laugh:

Magnificent Seven
03-06-2011, 11:43 PM
If they send Orton to Minnesota, who would be # 3 QB?

1. Tebow

2. Quinn

3. ????

rcsodak
03-06-2011, 11:49 PM
If they send Orton to Minnesota, who would be # 3 QB?

1. Tebow

2. Quinn

3. ????Tebow. Duh
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PAINTERDAVE
03-06-2011, 11:51 PM
If they send Orton to Minnesota, who would be # 3 QB?

1. Tebow

2. Quinn

3. ????

Once Free Agency opens, and we can unload Kyle and his 8 million dollar one year contract for whatever value there is available...
there will be some older vets to choose from who would be thrilled to be here to mentor Tebow and be the emergency QB.

dogfish
03-07-2011, 01:12 AM
Once Free Agency opens, and we can unload Kyle and his 8 million dollar one year contract for whatever value there is available...
there will be some older vets to choose from who would be thrilled to be here to mentor Tebow and be the emergency QB.

dave, stop crushing top's hopes and dreams. . . :laugh:

PAINTERDAVE
03-07-2011, 02:11 AM
dave, stop crushing top's hopes and dreams. . . :laugh:

LOL...

it is "funny"... this strange year of no FA...

so all the players like Orton around the league are trapped in limbo...
their teams talking up how great they are...
how much they will be counted on...
playing word games and all the subterfuge needed to keep appearances up...
all the while the players have no idea of what their future holds.

... and neither do their fans.

sneakers
03-07-2011, 02:39 AM
Package him with a 7th rounder and trade for Adrian Peterson.

FanInAZ
03-07-2011, 02:45 AM
Package him with a 7th rounder and trade for Adrian Peterson.

Keep up the positive thinking there Sneak!

sneakers
03-07-2011, 06:04 AM
Keep up the positive thinking there Sneak!

It would work in Madden!!!

HORSEPOWER 56
03-07-2011, 08:12 AM
Did you watch the preseason this past year?

Hey, I had high hopes for Quinn when we got him. The guy has all the measurements you could want. Heck he even has the Elway pigeon toe stance. But, he throws grenades. The guy looks terrible. We'll see this next camp how well he does. But, he was a huge disapointment in my mind.

You mean EXACTLY like Orton looked his first pre-season in McDaniels' new scheme back in '09? 3 INTs including a left hander? That was with being named the starter and taking all the 1st team reps. Orton was absolutely TERRIBLE his first pre-season here and half the fanbase was calling for Simms and Brandstater before the 1st reg season game because of how bad Orton looked.

Quinn was the #3 guy getting almost no practice time. What I thought was promising is that he and Tebow actually looked improved between game 1 and game 4 of the preseason. It's not like Quinn is an unknown. He has something like 13 starts under his belt and although he hasn't won much, nor has he done much to win those games, he hasn't done much to lose them, either. Much like Orton, he has the ability to play well enough not to lose you games, but he's not the guy you want running the offense on the last drive of the game down by 6 points. I think he'll be a decent backup in this league for years, much as I do our current starter.

claymore
03-07-2011, 09:09 AM
Why would the Broncos trade the best QB on their roster?

I would imagine they would have to see Tebow in Training camp. If he cant go thru a 3-7 foot drop and look smooth, no way in hell do they get rid of Orton for Tebow the HB.

TXBRONC
03-07-2011, 09:34 AM
I would imagine they would have to see Tebow in Training camp. If he cant go thru a 3-7 foot drop and look smooth, no way in hell do they get rid of Orton for Tebow the HB.

Check this out.




Broncos backing off idea of trading Orton
Posted March 06, 2011 @ 2:53 p.m. ET
By PFW staff
Following are whispers we've been hearing from around the AFC:

• It sounds more and more like the Broncos are backing off a trade of QB Kyle Orton. We hear the team prefers to have a veteran quarterback on the roster, especially if a lockout causes a long layoff. The original rumor was that the organization was looking for a second-round pick for the signalcaller, something that could not happen with an expired Collective Bargaining Agreement.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/03/06/broncos-backing-off-idea-of-trading-orton

I've said on a few occasions that it is possible that the Broncos keep Orton on the roster even if Tebow is the starter. It may only be for a year but I don't necessarily as detrimental some people. Orton has been the starter for the last two seasons but I'm not convinced that he has the complete support of his teammates to be the starter so I think he could stay and be the back up for a year. Even if we traded Orton I think Elway and Fox would still want a more experienced back up than Brady Quinn on the roster. So why reinvent the wheel?

claymore
03-07-2011, 09:47 AM
Check this out.



I've said on a few occasions that it is possible that the Broncos keep Orton
on the roster even if Tebow is the starter. It may only be for a year but I don't necessarily as detrimental some people. Orton has been the starter for the last two seasons but I'm not convinced that he has the complete support of his teammates to be the starter so I think he could stay and be the back up for a year. Even if we traded Tebow I think Elway and Fox would still want a more experienced back up than Brady Quinn on the roster. So why reinvent the wheel?

I dont know if they keep Orton unless he starts. We dont want a malcontent on board.

I really hope Tebow is our stud horse and proves me wrong. He needs to Earn the starting job this year.

SOCALORADO.
03-07-2011, 09:59 AM
I dont know if they keep Orton unless he starts. We dont want a malcontent on board.

I really hope Tebow is our stud horse and proves me wrong. He needs to Earn the starting job this year.

I actually dont think Orton would be a malcontent.
Hes dealt with this all his pro career, and it wouldnt be any different now.
Although i could see DEN trading him for a 2nd, and then bringing in a career vet to back up TT.
As ive always said, Orton is the best career back-up, starter in the NFL.

claymore
03-07-2011, 10:08 AM
I actually dont think Orton would be a malcontent.
Hes dealt with this all his pro career, and it wouldnt be any different now.
Although i could see DEN trading him for a 2nd, and then bringing in a career vet to back up TT.
As ive always said, Orton is the best career back-up, starter in the NFL.

Agree'ish

I think he started getting sassy towards the end of the season. If their was a probowl for backups he would be the peyton manning of backups.

TXBRONC
03-07-2011, 10:13 AM
I dont know if they keep Orton unless he starts. We dont want a malcontent on board.

I really hope Tebow is our stud horse and proves me wrong. He needs to Earn the starting job this year.


I actually dont think Orton would be a malcontent.
Hes dealt with this all his pro career, and it wouldnt be any different now.
Although i could see DEN trading him for a 2nd, and then bringing in a career vet to back up TT.
As ive always said, Orton is the best career back-up, starter in the NFL.

I know Orton has been full of piss and vinegar a few times in the press but I really don't see him shooting himself in the nuts just because he's not the starter. If he became a malcontent because he's not the starter I think he would find it much harder to find a starting job elsewhere.

I don't disagree with idea that Tebow has to compete earn the job. However, I don't think that means he has to absolutely kill it in camp. If he could show that he can run the offense well enough to be competitive that might be enough to beat out Orton.

topscribe
03-07-2011, 10:26 AM
Agree'ish

I think he started getting sassy towards the end of the season. If their was a probowl for backups he would be the peyton manning of backups.

Personally, I'm glad he did. Why would any one of us want him to be glad if
he thinks he's lost his starting job without a chance to compete? I don't
think Tebow would be happy with that, were it the other way around, either.



I know Orton has been full of piss and vinegar a few times in the press but I really don't see him shooting himself in the nuts just because he's not the starter. If he became a malcontent because he's not the starter I think he would find it much harder to find a starting job elsewhere.

I don't disagree with idea that Tebow has to compete earn the job. However, I don't think that means he has to absolutely kill in camp. If he could show that he can run the offense well enough to be competitive that might be enough to beat out Orton.

Nice post. However, I believe that will depend on how well Orton does. If Orton
brings the house down, then Tebow will have to compete his butt off. Not to
say he can't still win it, but I don't see its being so easy, probably for either
one of them. At least, I hope it's not -- that would only be good news for all of
us all the way around . . .

-----

topscribe
03-07-2011, 10:45 AM
You mean EXACTLY like Orton looked his first pre-season in McDaniels' new scheme back in '09? 3 INTs including a left hander? That was with being named the starter and taking all the 1st team reps. Orton was absolutely TERRIBLE his first pre-season here and half the fanbase was calling for Simms and Brandstater before the 1st reg season game because of how bad Orton looked.

Quinn was the #3 guy getting almost no practice time. What I thought was promising is that he and Tebow actually looked improved between game 1 and game 4 of the preseason. It's not like Quinn is an unknown. He has something like 13 starts under his belt and although he hasn't won much, nor has he done much to win those games, he hasn't done much to lose them, either. Much like Orton, he has the ability to play well enough not to lose you games, but he's not the guy you want running the offense on the last drive of the game down by 6 points. I think he'll be a decent backup in this league for years, much as I do our current starter.

Well, not really. It is true that Orton was miserable in the first preseason
game against SF, throwing for three INTs. However, he did pretty well in the
Seattle game, then was playing very well in the Chicago game, until he hurt
his finger. Of course, he didn't play the next week against the Cardinals.

But Quinn has yet to have anything smacking of a good performance since
coming to Denver. Not that he will remain that way, but it hasn't yet
happened. With the raw talent Quinn has, I would surely like to see him break
out . . .

-----

PAINTERDAVE
03-07-2011, 11:22 AM
There is absolutly NO NEWS in that recycled report.

Same stuff we've talked of here...

There can be NO TRADE if there is a lockout.

So OBVIOUSLY... if there is an extended lockout...
and the off season is toast..
and there is no camp and no pre-season...

yeah...
Orton will stick. The Broncos really would have no other option.

Doubt that another team would trade for him in September...
if there is no time to prepare him anyway.

This scenario SCREWS the Broncos... FORCING Kyle upon us...
instead of a true competition between QB's.

Oh well.. if there is no camp.. this team is toast any way...
it would not be long before Tebow would start by default...
just like last year.

Kinda sucks to think of such a crappy scenario..
we really NEED training camp... Free Agency... the whole off season.

It will be what it will be.

Can you imagine how miserable Orton will be after losing another boatload of games
on his way out of town?

Blech!

TXBRONC
03-07-2011, 11:50 AM
Personally, I'm glad he did. Why would any one of us want him to be glad if
he thinks he's lost his starting job without a chance to compete? I don't
think Tebow would be happy with that, were it the other way around, either.




Nice post. However, I believe that will depend on how well Orton does. If Orton
brings the house down, then Tebow will have to compete his butt off. Not to
say he can't still win it, but I don't see its being so easy, probably for either
one of them. At least, I hope it's not -- that would only be good news for all of
us all the way around . . .

-----

I don't expect to be happy about the prospect of riding the bench but I also don't expect him take it out Tebow nor make an issue of it in the press. One of things. One of the things I respected about Plummer was that he didn't make a big deal about being benched and he never took it out on Cutler as far as I know. I can't say the same about Orton.

I'm not so sure Tebow has to absolutely out play Orton win the starting role.
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topscribe
03-07-2011, 11:57 AM
I don't expect to be happy about the prospect of riding the bench but I also don't expect him take it out Tebow nor make an issue of it in the press. One of things. One of the things I respected about Plummer was that he didn't make a big deal about being benched and he never took it out on Cutler as far as I know. I can't say the same about Orton.

I'm not so sure Tebow has to absolutely out play Orton win the starting role.
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TX, we might as well get it through our heads that Fox is going to start the
better player at QB, as well as every other position. (And he's made it clear
he's not sure who that is.) Period. If he is fair, and I believe he is, the QB
who starts will have to outplay the other. That is competition.

Regarding Orton's attitude, the interpretation thereof is very subjective. So I'll
stick to my subjective opinion and allow everyone else to have theirs. That
particular aspect of the issue is neither here nor there regarding what he will
do on the field . . .

-----

WARHORSE
03-07-2011, 12:29 PM
Check this out.



I've said on a few occasions that it is possible that the Broncos keep Orton
on the roster even if Tebow is the starter. It may only be for a year but I don't necessarily as detrimental some people. Orton has been the starter for the last two seasons but I'm not convinced that he has the complete support of his teammates to be the starter so I think he could stay and be the back up for a year. Even if we traded Tebow I think Elway and Fox would still want a more experienced back up than Brady Quinn on the roster. So why reinvent the wheel?

Leverage.

NightTerror218
03-07-2011, 01:12 PM
Check this out.



I've said on a few occasions that it is possible that the Broncos keep Orton
on the roster even if Tebow is the starter. It may only be for a year but I don't necessarily as detrimental some people. Orton has been the starter for the last two seasons but I'm not convinced that he has the complete support of his teammates to be the starter so I think he could stay and be the back up for a year. Even if we traded Tebow I think Elway and Fox would still want a more experienced back up than Brady Quinn on the roster. So why reinvent the wheel?


Because they are rebuilding the team and why keep a guy with a big contract for 1 year when you can get trade value out of him and pick up a future starter for the team rather then a bench warmer? Why not pick up an older vet in FA for cheaper.

cardoso
03-07-2011, 03:23 PM
TX, we might as well get it through our heads that Fox is going to start the
better player at QB, as well as every other position. (And he's made it clear
he's not sure who that is.) Period. If he is fair, and I believe he is, the QB
who starts will have to outplay the other. That is competition.

-----

that's cute you believe like that :lol: Tebow IS the better qb and HE WILL be starting when football resumes. Tebow wont even be on the rooster once there's a new cba.

topscribe
03-07-2011, 03:26 PM
that's cute you believe like that :lol: Tebow IS the better qb and HE WILL be starting when football resumes. Tebow wont even be on the rooster once there's a new cba.

Then maybe we all ought to listen to you, rather than Elway and Fox. :whoknows:

Whatever you meant by Tebow's not being on a rooster . . . :D

-----

rcsodak
03-07-2011, 05:26 PM
that's cute you believe like that :lol: Tebow IS the better qb and HE WILL be starting when football resumes. Tebow wont even be on the rooster once there's a new cba.
Will the rooster be asked his opinion first?

And, where is TT going?

Wow...I'm cornfused.
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Day1BroncoFan
03-07-2011, 05:34 PM
Who do the Vikes have that we could use? They have some pretty good DL people don't they?

bcbronc
03-07-2011, 05:54 PM
So now that Tebow is off the rooster, not just any coc-a-doodle-do?
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rcsodak
03-07-2011, 05:58 PM
Who do the Vikes have that we could use? They have some pretty good DL people don't they?pat williams.....doesn't expect to be back .... .....old...legal ??'s......
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Day1BroncoFan
03-07-2011, 06:10 PM
pat williams.....doesn't expect to be back .... .....old...legal ??'s......
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I'm just guessing. I don't know much about the vikes but I thought I heard one of the announcers talking about that last season. Maybe not. :whoknows:

dogfish
03-07-2011, 06:21 PM
Who do the Vikes have that we could use? They have some pretty good DL people don't they?

they're really not in position to trade DLs. . . pat williams and ray edwards are free agents, and kevin williams is still facing the starcaps suspension at some point. . . they did re-sign robison, but he's not much more than some potential at this point. . .

i'd have to take a closer look at their roster (they have some decent LBs, doubt they'd trade one of the top starters), but off the top of my head i'd say we'd be better off just dealing for draft picks if we can make a move with the vikes. . .

topscribe
03-07-2011, 06:31 PM
So now that Tebow is off the rooster, not just any coc-a-doodle-do?
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Uh-oh . . . I caught that . . . :D

-----

TXBRONC
03-08-2011, 01:11 AM
Who do the Vikes have that we could use? They have some pretty good DL people don't they?

Draft picks and Adrian Peterson. :D

Bullgator
03-08-2011, 02:44 AM
that's cute you believe like that :lol: Tebow IS the better qb and HE WILL be starting when football resumes. Tebow wont even be on the rooster once there's a new cba.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

your whole comment made perfect sense... but you have to replace the word Tebow with Orton. then you would be correct.

we will all see in 2 weeks or less

BroncoStud
03-08-2011, 03:04 AM
that's cute you believe like that :lol: Tebow IS the better qb and HE WILL be starting when football resumes. Tebow wont even be on the rooster once there's a new cba.

:elefant:

claymore
03-08-2011, 03:22 AM
Lets not rule out trading Tebow.

Bullgator
03-08-2011, 03:37 AM
Lets not rule out trading Tebow.

in your heart of hearts you know that is not even a possibilty

claymore
03-08-2011, 03:46 AM
in your heart of hearts you know that is not even a possibilty

I think if we can leverage tebow to get a good QB next year it is a very real possibility. Tebow needs to show us something this year.

rcsodak
03-08-2011, 06:13 AM
I think if we can leverage tebow to get a good QB next year it is a very real possibility. Tebow needs to show us something this year.

Gabbert>TT
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PAINTERDAVE
03-08-2011, 10:56 AM
That is a good point...

another reason we need to can Orton and use the kid...

to find out what he's got.

Me personaly?

I think he will do fine.

But, yes, there always is the possibility he craps out and we need to trade him later.

Tebow riding the bench behind Kyle does this team ZERO good.

PAINTERDAVE
03-08-2011, 10:57 AM
Gabbert>TT
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There is no way to know...

until they both play.

We have Tebow on a reasonable 4 year contract..
Gabbert is an undrafted College senior...

RC.. I am starting to think that it is more than just that you like Orton...

I am thinking that you dislike Tebow?

I know Clay don't like the kid....

PAINTERDAVE
03-08-2011, 11:01 AM
One thing, though..

If they traded Tebow away...
and he went on to phenominal success with another team...

how would that reflect on Elway/Fox?

Not good.

topscribe
03-08-2011, 11:13 AM
That is a good point...

another reason we need to can Orton and use the kid...

to find out what he's got.

Me personaly?

I think he will do fine.

But, yes, there always is the possibility he craps out and we need to trade him later.

Tebow riding the bench behind Kyle does this team ZERO good.

That doesn't make sense, Dave. It sounds like quitting your job then going out
and finding another. If there is a chance of bust -- and there is always a
chance of bust with a largely untried rookie -- then you had better hang onto
the veteran until you know the rookie won't bust. Good QBs really are not
that easy to find . . .

-----

claymore
03-08-2011, 11:24 AM
There is no way to know...

until they both play.

We have Tebow on a reasonable 4 year contract..
Gabbert is an undrafted College senior...

RC.. I am starting to think that it is more than just that you like Orton...

I am thinking that you dislike Tebow?

I know Clay don't like the kid....

I like the kid, but that is irrelevant to what the Broncos need. We need a good QB. Not a highly mobile "good kid".

PAINTERDAVE
03-08-2011, 11:40 AM
I like the kid, but that is irrelevant to what the Broncos need. We need a good QB. Not a highly mobile "good kid".

Respectfully... I believe the kid will become a good QB...

the question is when and for who?

I would like to see him get a shot now and for us.

PAINTERDAVE
03-08-2011, 11:45 AM
That doesn't make sense, Dave. It sounds like quitting your job then going out
and finding another. If there is a chance of bust -- and there is always a
chance of bust with a largely untried rookie -- then you had better hang onto
the veteran until you know the rookie won't bust. Good QBs really are not
that easy to find . . .

-----

Orton is NOT what I call a good, long term, prospect.
He is NOT the mentoring type... he has shown disdain for the kid.
He would bristle at the idea of backing up Tebow... he has SHOWN that.

The one year contract dictates his value.
There really is zero chance that Orton will besigned here to a long term, high dollar deal.

Kyle's true value is in a trade...
not in paying him to either be a stop gap or a clipboard holder....
then watching him walk for free.



For all the reasons discussed here.... ad nauseum...
Orton needs to go.

And if Tebow busts... we need to know.
Then we use our great, bust inspired draft pick in 2012 on Luck or whoever...

If Tebow busts... is Orton the answer?
Hell to the NO.

Using Kyle in 2011 is what make no sense.

PAINTERDAVE
03-08-2011, 11:49 AM
Besides.. those final 3 games lead me to believe...

Tebow is gonna be fine.

topscribe
03-08-2011, 12:13 PM
Orton is NOT what I call a good, long term, prospect.
He is NOT the mentoring type... he has shown disdain for the kid.
He would bristle at the idea of backing up Tebow... he has SHOWN that.

The one year contract dictates his value.
There really is zero chance that Orton will besigned here to a long term, high dollar deal.

Kyle's true value is in a trade...
not in paying him to either be a stop gap or a clipboard holder....
then watching him walk for free.



For all the reasons discussed here.... ad nauseum...
Orton needs to go.

And if Tebow busts... we need to know.
Then we use our great, bust inspired draft pick in 2012 on Luck or whoever...

If Tebow busts... is Orton the answer?
Hell to the NO.

Using Kyle in 2011 is what make no sense.

In your opinion. But I see it different, and noises coming out of the FO seem
to indicate different, also.

I don't know what you really see in Orton, except that you don't believe he
is the answer. Maybe not, but what I see is a QB who, with virtually zero
running game, a sieve for an O-line, and a last-place defense, performed at a
record-shattering, Pro Bowl level (per John Elway) before his rib injuries. That
has to be impressive to anyone reasonably considering it.

So what if the O-line begins to perform decently, the running game is at least
respectable, and the defense is at least average? Would one, then, expect
Kyle to perform worse? Does that make any sense at all? Does it not make
sense that if those other factors improve, so will Orton's performance?

So if Kyle performed at a record-shattering, Pro Bowl pace while having to
overcome all those disadvantages and obstacles, what are his capabilities
under more "normal" circumstances?

And we think we've seen his ceiling?

Do you think the likes of the Minnesota Vikings would consider trading for Kyle
at all if they held the same opinion about him as many of you on this board?
Do you think Elway and Fox would say he is the starter at this time if they did?

Oh yes, many of you say it is to hold up Orton's trade value. What? So do you
all think the FOs in the other teams are composed of such idiots that this is
what will persuade them? Do you think Elway and Fox view them that way?

Jeff Legwold of the Denver Post said those around the league have a higher
opinion of Orton than do many of the fans in Denver. He ought to know: He
talks to them.

Both Elway and Fox have indicated that Tebow is not yet a good NFL QB. At
the same time, they say that Orton is currently the starting QB. Do those two
statements not go hand in hand?

I may be in a very small minority on this board with my opinion of Orton. But
I am in line with the Broncos' FO and those around the league. Whose opinon
do you think I should value more?

-----

jhns
03-08-2011, 12:19 PM
Besides.. those final 3 games lead me to believe...

Tebow is gonna be fine.

The thing I don't understand is how someone can think Orton is good but they don't think Tebow, the guy that outplayed Orton in live games last season, can be good.

Really, this is the single point that needs to be made when loking at thee two. Orton was outplayed by a raw rookie that didn't get starting reps all season. Why would we then want to go back to the lesser QB? It is very obvious why the staff isn't calling Orton the backup. You talk up what you are looking to deal in order to give it value.

rcsodak
03-08-2011, 12:49 PM
There is no way to know...

until they both play.

We have Tebow on a reasonable 4 year contract..
Gabbert is an undrafted College senior...

RC.. I am starting to think that it is more than just that you like Orton...

I am thinking that you dislike Tebow?

I know Clay don't like the kid....

Nope. Why does a person, being rational vs the fantastical, become a hater?
I was totally giddy watching him perform last year. But does that mean I have to lie to myself when comparing him to other qb's?

If he came out this year, where do you think he's rated, dave?

I will back the starting qb. Currently, its Orton. I sincerely hope TT turns out to be really good. For the team......and for some here that are hanging on his every word.
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rcsodak
03-08-2011, 12:58 PM
The thing I don't understand is how someone can think Orton is good but they don't think Tebow, the guy that outplayed Orton in live games last season, can be good.

Really, this is the single point that needs to be made when loking at thee two. Orton was outplayed by a raw rookie that didn't get starting reps all season. Why would we then want to go back to the lesser QB? It is very obvious why the staff isn't calling Orton the backup. You talk up what you are looking to deal in order to give it value.
When in the world did TT "outplay" KO...(in LIVE games, no less)?
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BroncoStud
03-08-2011, 01:10 PM
When in the world did TT "outplay" KO...(in LIVE games, no less)?
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Against the Raiders, Texans, and Chargers. Why don't we compare performances against the Raiders and Chargers between the two and see who looked better...

Tebow is already the better QB and he is about 1/10th developed.

BroncoStud
03-08-2011, 01:11 PM
The thing I don't understand is how someone can think Orton is good but they don't think Tebow, the guy that outplayed Orton in live games last season, can be good.

Really, this is the single point that needs to be made when loking at thee two. Orton was outplayed by a raw rookie that didn't get starting reps all season. Why would we then want to go back to the lesser QB? It is very obvious why the staff isn't calling Orton the backup. You talk up what you are looking to deal in order to give it value.

Bingo. I'm glad there are actually some sensible Broncos fans left in the world. :salute:

jhns
03-08-2011, 01:27 PM
When in the world did TT "outplay" KO...(in LIVE games, no less)?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

When he did much better against two common opponents. When the team scored more with him in.

Oak at Denver with Orton. 14-59 Oak
Denver at Oak with Tebow. 23-39 Oak

Denver at SD with Orton. 14-35 SD
SD at Denver with Tebow. 33-28 SD

Which performance is better?

PPG with Orton - 20.69 - Would be 22nd best in the league over a full season.
PPG with Tebow - 25 - Would be the 7th best in the league over a full season.

rcsodak
03-08-2011, 02:32 PM
When he did much better against two common opponents. When the team scored more with him in.

Oak at Denver with Orton. 14-59 Oak
Denver at Oak with Tebow. 23-39 Oak

Denver at SD with Orton. 14-35 SD
SD at Denver with Tebow. 33-28 SD

Which performance is better?

PPG with Orton - 20.69 - Would be 22nd best in the league over a full season.
PPG with Tebow - 25 - Would be the 7th best in the league over a full season.
:lol:
sorry....but that's just so laughably silly, I can't even comment. Ready for more snow? Just drove from Norfolk....yuck!
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jhns
03-08-2011, 02:34 PM
:lol:
sorry....but that's just so laughably silly, I can't even comment. Ready for more snow? Just drove from Norfolk....yuck!
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Typical response from someone that has nothing. Thanks for playing.

BroncoStud
03-08-2011, 02:40 PM
:lol:
sorry....but that's just so laughably silly, I can't even comment. Ready for more snow? Just drove from Norfolk....yuck!
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You can't respond because he's right lol... :laugh:

PAINTERDAVE
03-08-2011, 06:07 PM
Thanks for reminding me of the Raider Debacle!

Ack.

Orton throwing that pick six to start that game makes me sick to my stomach.

The way he threw the towel in at MILE HIGH against the RAIDERS makes me sick.

Trade the cancer. Start the cure.

zbeg
03-08-2011, 06:22 PM
Thanks for reminding me of the Raider Debacle!

Ack.

Orton throwing that pick six to start that game makes me sick to my stomach.

The way he threw the towel in at MILE HIGH against the RAIDERS makes me sick.

Trade the cancer. Start the cure.

I really hated the way he didn't even show up on defense in that game, either. If he was a real leader, he would have made a tackle somewhere. Maybe gotten a sack or two.

I definitely look at "the Broncos gave up 59 points" and put the bulk of the blame on the quarterback, and I like to focus solely on one position when that happens. Who else could possibly be to blame here?

BroncoStud
03-08-2011, 07:15 PM
I really hated the way he didn't even show up on defense in that game, either. If he was a real leader, he would have made a tackle somewhere. Maybe gotten a sack or two.

I definitely look at "the Broncos gave up 59 points" and put the bulk of the blame on the quarterback, and I like to focus solely on one position when that happens. Who else could possibly be to blame here?

Orton was responsible for giving up AT LEAST 7 of those points, so it's not all on the defense, the 3 and outs certainly don't help their cause... But I know, the QB has NO impact on the rest of the team...

:rolleyes:

zbeg
03-08-2011, 07:21 PM
Orton was responsible for giving up AT LEAST 7 of those points, so it's not all on the defense, the 3 and outs certainly don't help their cause... But I know, the QB has NO impact on the rest of the team...

:rolleyes:

Never said the QB has no impact. But take away the pick 6 and you still have the defense giving up fifty-two points.

Using "Orton couldn't win the Oakland game and we should blame him as the primary factor behind the loss" as a narrative is patently absurd. The quarterback doesn't have that much influence on the defense. That was a horrible, horrible defensive performance and is reasons 1 through 20 why the Broncos lost. Orton's play was a complete non-factor in the outcome of that game.

chazoe60
03-08-2011, 07:28 PM
Never said the QB has no impact. But take away the pick 6 and you still have the defense giving up fifty-two points.

Using "Orton couldn't win the Oakland game and we should blame him as the primary factor behind the loss" as a narrative is patently absurd. The quarterback doesn't have that much influence on the defense. That was a horrible, horrible defensive performance and is reasons 1 through 20 why the Broncos lost. Orton's play was a complete non-factor in the outcome of that game.

Take away the fumble deep in our territory by Orton, and another one by the Offense as well. No one said the defense was good in that game but why in the Hell do Orton apologists always attack other parts of the team as their defense of that slug? Just because the defense sucked doesn't mean we can't bring up the fact that Orton sucked too, especially when we needed him most, like when the Raiders score two quick TDs (one off of a fumble by a WR on an absolutely stupid ass reverse play) and the team desperately needs a leader to step up and stop the bleeding. What did Orton do in that situation? That's right, he threw a pick-six. And what did he do the very next time we had the ball? That's right he fumbled deep in our own territory. But, sure none of that debacle was his fault.

Agent of Orange
03-08-2011, 07:56 PM
The only problem with trading away Orton is that you need a veteran QB on staff. The guys we might consider after trading Orton:

Hassleback
Bulger
Pennington
K. Collins

I do believe we should get rid of Orton. Would he be our best option for the upcoming season? Maybe. But, he's not our future and we need someone who will bring Tebow along...not, separate himself from him. An older Vet who is finished starting in the league, but could go in and win a couple games if needed would be ideal. Brady Quinn is a question mark. He's a kid with alot of talent...but, doesn't seem to be a quality starting prospect or a guy to give tips to a young gun either. He's kind of a wild card at best.

Alex Smith might make the most sense. He played in the same system as Tebow in college so he would be in a position to use similar skillsets and also help Tebow progress with possible added instruction with terminology and whatever.

Agent of Orange
03-08-2011, 07:58 PM
Id love for Denver to trade Orton to Minnesota for a 2nd. We've already seen that movie and know how it ends.

BroncoStud
03-08-2011, 11:41 PM
Take away the fumble deep in our territory by Orton, and another one by the Offense as well. No one said the defense was good in that game but why in the Hell do Orton apologists always attack other parts of the team as their defense of that slug? Just because the defense sucked doesn't mean we can't bring up the fact that Orton sucked too, especially when we needed him most, like when the Raiders score two quick TDs (one off of a fumble by a WR on an absolutely stupid ass reverse play) and the team desperately needs a leader to step up and stop the bleeding. What did Orton do in that situation? That's right, he threw a pick-six. And what did he do the very next time we had the ball? That's right he fumbled deep in our own territory. But, sure none of that debacle was his fault.

^ This

dunk7
03-09-2011, 12:50 AM
Tebow is already the better QB and he is about 1/10th developed.

Better Runner? Absolutely
Better Passer? I'm not sold (which again isn't saying much for either)

PAINTERDAVE
03-09-2011, 01:07 AM
I really hated the way he didn't even show up on defense in that game, either. If he was a real leader, he would have made a tackle somewhere. Maybe gotten a sack or two.

I definitely look at "the Broncos gave up 59 points" and put the bulk of the blame on the quarterback, and I like to focus solely on one position when that happens. Who else could possibly be to blame here?

OKay... let's look at what Tebow did in his FIRST start deep in the BLACK HOLE of RAIDER NATION...

First half... the plays they called sucked... the game plan was vanilla..
Tim struggled.. he threw a pick... but he held steady. He never gave up.

The defense sucked... they got scored on... but they never gave up.

Then... in the second half Tim rallied... he got the troops fired up.
He fought.. he rumbled.. he scored... he came back and made it a respectable score.

The raiders defensive players ALL walked away from that game respecting the kid.
They said it out loud. The Raiders defense all said... "Kid's got game"
"Tim is gonna be good."

Same two teams... Kyle had home field and a season of preparedness..
Tim had no coach, the Black Hole, crappy play calling, and a ton of moxy.

Orton QUIT in his shot at our NEMESIS! Tim gave us everything he had in the tank...
He tried like hell to beat our ENEMY'S

Then he beat the Texans... and he rallied and almost beat the Chargers...
if EITHER one of those final two Hail Mary's woulda worked...
Tim woulda had the win in the final seconds.

The kid has heart and soul and an untapped potential.

The vet has... well.. he has good stats if you ignore 3rd downs,
plays when the team is down by 8, and wins/losses. And the in red zone.

But hell ya... Orton has GREAT stats between the 20's!

Agent of Orange
03-09-2011, 02:46 AM
OKay... let's look at what Tebow did in his FIRST start deep in the BLACK HOLE of RAIDER NATION...

First half... the plays they called sucked... the game plan was vanilla..
Tim struggled.. he threw a pick... but he held steady. He never gave up.

The defense sucked... they got scored on... but they never gave up.

Then... in the second half Tim rallied... he got the troops fired up.
He fought.. he rumbled.. he scored... he came back and made it a respectable score.The raiders defensive players ALL walked away from that game respecting the kid.
They said it out loud. The Raiders defense all said... "Kid's got game"
"Tim is gonna be good."

Same two teams... Kyle had home field and a season of preparedness..
Tim had no coach, the Black Hole, crappy play calling, and a ton of moxy.

Orton QUIT in his shot at our NEMESIS! Tim gave us everything he had in the tank...
He tried like hell to beat our ENEMY'S

Then he beat the Texans... and he rallied and almost beat the Chargers...
if EITHER one of those final two Hail Mary's woulda worked...
Tim woulda had the win in the final seconds.

The kid has heart and soul and an untapped potential.

The vet has... well.. he has good stats if you ignore 3rd downs,
plays when the team is down by 8, and wins/losses. And the in red zone.

But hell ya... Orton has GREAT stats between the 20's!

He "rumbled" in the first half.

PAINTERDAVE
03-09-2011, 02:54 AM
He "rumbled" in the first half.

I wrote...

"Then... in the second half Tim rallied... he got the troops fired up.
He fought.. he rumbled.. he scored... he came back and made it a respectable score."

Not sure what you mean with your "misquote" of what I wrote?

Care to clarify?

Agent of Orange
03-09-2011, 03:06 AM
I wrote...

"Then... in the second half Tim rallied... he got the troops fired up.
He fought.. he rumbled.. he scored... he came back and made it a respectable score."

Not sure what you mean with your "misquote" of what I wrote?

Care to clarify?

If you're talking about the 40 yard TD run, it was in the first half. Denver also scored most of their points in the first half.

PAINTERDAVE
03-09-2011, 03:12 AM
If you're talking about the 40 yard TD run, it was in the first half. Denver also scored most of their points in the first half.

You are correct. I mis-remembered the game.

I got it wrong. I guess I crossed the Charger game in my mind...

Dang.. I guess I am getting old. Yikes.

Put me in the old folks home... make room , Old Top.

Thanks for the clarification.

I need to go back and watch the highlight reels....
this off season is dragging, eh?

Agent of Orange
03-09-2011, 03:16 AM
You are correct. I mis-remembered the game.

I got it wrong. I guess I crossed the Charger game in my mind...

Dang.. I guess I am getting old. Yikes.

Put me in the old folks home... make room , Old Top.

Thanks for the clarification.

I need to go back and watch the highlight reels....
this off season is dragging, eh?

It was easy for me to remember because I went to a bar to watch the game knowing the Broncos might only score 7 points all game. And then in the first qtr Tebow has the long TD run and a nice TD pass. I remember them actually being ahead at one point which I wasnt expecting.

zbeg
03-09-2011, 05:30 AM
Take away the fumble deep in our territory by Orton, and another one by the Offense as well. No one said the defense was good in that game but why in the Hell do Orton apologists always attack other parts of the team as their defense of that slug? Just because the defense sucked doesn't mean we can't bring up the fact that Orton sucked too, especially when we needed him most, like when the Raiders score two quick TDs (one off of a fumble by a WR on an absolutely stupid ass reverse play) and the team desperately needs a leader to step up and stop the bleeding. What did Orton do in that situation? That's right, he threw a pick-six. And what did he do the very next time we had the ball? That's right he fumbled deep in our own territory. But, sure none of that debacle was his fault.

See, this is the sort of thing that's so frustrating to me to read. It's all either/or. Extreme statements with no attention to context - just one sentence soundbytes, essentially.

"Kyle Orton is a bum and was the reason why Denver lost."
"Look at his win/loss record as a quarterback."
"Every move Josh McDaniels made was a disaster."

It's hardly ever this black and white. The defense was bad, the running game was bad, the offensive line was inconsistent at best, and Orton ranged from being one of the most efficient quarterbacks in the NFL to being inconsistent later in the season for any number of reasons.

But it's hard to have any sort of meaningful discussion. The Broncos give up 59 points and most of what I hear is "Orton botched the Raiders game." Okay, even if you attribute 14 points of that to Orton, that's still six touchdowns the defense gave up - but somehow this game is brought up as a failure of Orton's.

It's like the narrative is set: Orton is a bum, and all evidence that supports that is touted, while all evidence to the contrary is thrown out. Any attempts to point out that yes, there's a lot of good mixed in with some bad are met with "mistake mistake Orton Orton - but I guess you think he was perfect and threw touchdowns on every play" or some similar extreme statement that was never said by these so-called "Orton apologists."

I'd prefer Tebow to be the starting QB opening day, but I'm also willing to accept that Fox and Elway don't believe he's ready yet. I also know that Orton is fairly well-regarded around the league, hence the talk of him going for a second rounder is not ludicrous. If he was as truly awful as some of the people on this board would make him out to be, then how did he manage to fool the rest of the league?

Is it possible that you're so emotionally tied up with the win/loss record of the Broncos and the easiest (and laziest) thing to do is just to point at the starting quarterback and attribute the majority of the success/failures to that guy, even when it's not really in proportion to what the quarterback can influence on a team?

It boggles my mind that people can use the Raiders game - specifically the result of the Raiders game - as an example of Orton's failings, as if another quarterback could have somehow prevented the Broncos from giving up 59 points. Even if, say, the quarterback somehow made a four touchdown difference, that's still four+ touchdowns to go.

The Broncos failed on multiple fronts last year - the defense and running game were abysmally poor. Believe it or not, people outside of the bubble of living and dying with everything the Broncos do see the effectiveness of Denver's passing game under Kyle Orton as one of the few bright spots on the season, not some sort of awful blight that needs to be exorcised immediately.

chazoe60
03-09-2011, 08:01 AM
I guess you forgot to read the part where I wrote "the defense sucked". Typical Orton apologist, takes what I wrote as me blaming the entire loss on Orton. Too ******* funny. I suppose three and out after three and out, by our offense, didn't contribute to a poor showing by the defense either?

I love how some people will point out every other aspect of the team as being shitty then tell us how great Orton was. No one said Orton was the main reason we lost, but if you think he didn't have a hand in that Raiders debacle, then you need to piss on your TV, start it on fire, and throw it in a lake and never again watch football.

Bullgator
03-09-2011, 08:03 AM
11.36 touches per TD in 2010 for TT... thats a nice number but i wonder if its an aberation?

11.56 touches per TD averaged for entire 4 year career at UF... Nope I guess TT plays that way no matter what D hes facing NFL or not

If you were a poker player and you had to bet you might want to go with 5 years of statistical evidence as to hwat he might avg next year.

claymore
03-09-2011, 10:20 AM
11.36 touches per TD in 2010 for TT... thats a nice number but i wonder if its an aberation?

11.56 touches per TD averaged for entire 4 year career at UF... Nope I guess TT plays that way no matter what D hes facing NFL or not

If you were a poker player and you had to bet you might want to go with 5 years of statistical evidence as to hwat he might avg next year.

He reminded me alot of Mike Bell.

vandammage13
03-09-2011, 10:43 AM
....It boggles my mind that people can use the Raiders game - specifically the result of the Raiders game - as an example of Orton's failings, as if another quarterback could have somehow prevented the Broncos from giving up 59 points. Even if, say, the quarterback somehow made a four touchdown difference, that's still four+ touchdowns to go....

You are putting all 59 points at the feet of the defense. Orton was wholly responsible for at least two of those scores with his pick 6 (on the first offensive play) and lost fumble on our own 26. Orton's horrid play was way more responsible for the lopsided score in that game than our defense was.

Not to mention Orton only managed to get our offense 1 first down by the time we were down 38-0...The defense certainly sucked that game, but Orton didn't exactly put the defense in a good position to excel.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 01:34 PM
I really hated the way he didn't even show up on defense in that game, either. If he was a real leader, he would have made a tackle somewhere. Maybe gotten a sack or two.

I definitely look at "the Broncos gave up 59 points" and put the bulk of the blame on the quarterback, and I like to focus solely on one position when that happens. Who else could possibly be to blame here?
Quitit! Rational reasoning isn't allowed in KO threads.
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 01:52 PM
OKay... let's look at what Tebow did in his FIRST start deep in the BLACK HOLE of RAIDER NATION...

First half... the plays they called sucked... the game plan was vanilla..
Tim struggled.. he threw a pick... but he held steady. He never gave up.

The defense sucked... they got scored on... but they never gave up.

Then... in the second half Tim rallied... he got the troops fired up.
He fought.. he rumbled.. he scored... he came back and made it a respectable score.

The raiders defensive players ALL walked away from that game respecting the kid.
They said it out loud. The Raiders defense all said... "Kid's got game"
"Tim is gonna be good."

Same two teams... Kyle had home field and a season of preparedness..
Tim had no coach, the Black Hole, crappy play calling, and a ton of moxy.

Orton QUIT in his shot at our NEMESIS! Tim gave us everything he had in the tank...
He tried like hell to beat our ENEMY'S

Then he beat the Texans... and he rallied and almost beat the Chargers...
if EITHER one of those final two Hail Mary's woulda worked...
Tim woulda had the win in the final seconds.

The kid has heart and soul and an untapped potential.

The vet has... well.. he has good stats if you ignore 3rd downs,
plays when the team is down by 8, and wins/losses. And the in red zone.

But hell ya... Orton has GREAT stats between the 20's!
Do teams get asked of their opinions of opposing QB's after every game, or just a rookie's 1st one?
ALL that matters:loss, right?

Of course, not ever seeing the kid play....OR the HC's decision makin....OR the OC's game calling had nothing to do with a defense playing loosely, vs the earlier game, right?

As for your repeatedly claiming the team (defense included) played harder with him....well, last time I saw a team supposedly" play" for a qb, was the one where Mr Bowlen, in the end, is holding the Lombardi over his head, saying" this one's for John!".
NOT, dave, a rookie. :-))
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vandammage13
03-09-2011, 01:52 PM
Quitit! Rational reasoning isn't allowed in KO threads.
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Yeah I know...Don't blame Orton for the Pick 6 and fumble deep inside his own territory and just 1 first down in the first 5 possessions. That would just be irrational...Blame it on the defense. They gave up every one of those 59 points!!!

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 01:58 PM
See, this is the sort of thing that's so frustrating to me to read. It's all either/or. Extreme statements with no attention to context - just one sentence soundbytes, essentially.

"Kyle Orton is a bum and was the reason why Denver lost."
"Look at his win/loss record as a quarterback."
"Every move Josh McDaniels made was a disaster."

It's hardly ever this black and white. The defense was bad, the running game was bad, the offensive line was inconsistent at best, and Orton ranged from being one of the most efficient quarterbacks in the NFL to being inconsistent later in the season for any number of reasons.

But it's hard to have any sort of meaningful discussion. The Broncos give up 59 points and most of what I hear is "Orton botched the Raiders game." Okay, even if you attribute 14 points of that to Orton, that's still six touchdowns the defense gave up - but somehow this game is brought up as a failure of Orton's.

It's like the narrative is set: Orton is a bum, and all evidence that supports that is touted, while all evidence to the contrary is thrown out. Any attempts to point out that yes, there's a lot of good mixed in with some bad are met with "mistake mistake Orton Orton - but I guess you think he was perfect and threw touchdowns on every play" or some similar extreme statement that was never said by these so-called "Orton apologists."

I'd prefer Tebow to be the starting QB opening day, but I'm also willing to accept that Fox and Elway don't believe he's ready yet. I also know that Orton is fairly well-regarded around the league, hence the talk of him going for a second rounder is not ludicrous. If he was as truly awful as some of the people on this board would make him out to be, then how did he manage to fool the rest of the league?

Is it possible that you're so emotionally tied up with the win/loss record of the Broncos and the easiest (and laziest) thing to do is just to point at the starting quarterback and attribute the majority of the success/failures to that guy, even when it's not really in proportion to what the quarterback can influence on a team?

It boggles my mind that people can use the Raiders game - specifically the result of the Raiders game - as an example of Orton's failings, as if another quarterback could have somehow prevented the Broncos from giving up 59 points. Even if, say, the quarterback somehow made a four touchdown difference, that's still four+ touchdowns to go.

The Broncos failed on multiple fronts last year - the defense and running game were abysmally poor. Believe it or not, people outside of the bubble of living and dying with everything the Broncos do see the effectiveness of Denver's passing game under Kyle Orton as one of the few bright spots on the season, not some sort of awful blight that needs to be exorcised immediately.
1. Welcome to the club
2. Duck
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 02:04 PM
11.36 touches per TD in 2010 for TT... thats a nice number but i wonder if its an aberation?

11.56 touches per TD averaged for entire 4 year career at UF... Nope I guess TT plays that way no matter what D hes facing NFL or not

If you were a poker player and you had to bet you might want to go with 5 years of statistical evidence as to hwat he might avg next year.
The problem with you TT-ITES is you can't separate college from professional.

If your reasoning had any relevance what so ever, there would be no draft busts, and Sam Bradford would have led the entire league last year in TD's/Int's.
:lol:
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 02:08 PM
You are putting all 59 points at the feet of the defense. Orton was wholly responsible for at least two of those scores with his pick 6 (on the first offensive play) and lost fumble on our own 26. Orton's horrid play was way more responsible for the lopsided score in that game than our defense was.

Not to mention Orton only managed to get our offense 1 first down by the time we were down 38-0...The defense certainly sucked that game, but Orton didn't exactly put the defense in a good position to excel.

Good to know Oak's defense had nothing to say about his play. Too bad the play of denvers defense said it all.
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rcsodak
03-09-2011, 02:11 PM
I guess you forgot to read the part where I wrote "the defense sucked". Typical Orton apologist, takes what I wrote as me blaming the entire loss on Orton. Too ******* funny. I suppose three and out after three and out, by our offense, didn't contribute to a poor showing by the defense either?

I love how some people will point out every other aspect of the team as being shitty then tell us how great Orton was. No one said Orton was the main reason we lost, but if you think he didn't have a hand in that Raiders debacle, then you need to piss on your TV, start it on fire, and throw it in a lake and never again watch football.

Defensive, much? Lol
Pretty sure he was directing alot of that at ALL of the KO-haters.
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vandammage13
03-09-2011, 02:14 PM
The problem with you TT-ITES is you can't separate college from professional.

If your reasoning had any relevance what so ever, there would be no draft busts, and Sam Bradford would have led the entire league last year in TD's/Int's.
:lol:
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He was merely pointing out how similar the numbers for Tim were between college and pro. The numbers he posted were facts, not predictions.

He was not commenting on college players in all, but Tim singularly. So your rebuttal ends there.

Will he be able to keep the touches/TD ratio up in the NFL as he has thus far? Certainly not, but it is a good barometer to measure what potential success he may have considering he's already putting up those numbers.

It would seem that you would be excited about your rookie QB having a ratio like that, but instead you try to pull negatives from something as promising as that ratio was.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 02:15 PM
Yeah I know...Don't blame Orton for the Pick 6 and fumble deep inside his own territory and just 1 first down in the first 5 possessions. That would just be irrational...Blame it on the defense. They gave up every one of those 59 points!!!
53/59 pts vs the _efense.

Not sure, but I think I just saw a Raider rb still running. :coffee:
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vandammage13
03-09-2011, 02:19 PM
53/59 pts vs the _efense.

Not sure, but I think I just saw a Raider rb still running. :coffee:
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Yep...I said the defense sucked that game. They were terrible. But They probably played 35-38 points bad, not 59 points bad.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 02:23 PM
He was merely pointing out how similar the numbers for Tim were between college and pro.

Not college players in all, but Tim singularly. So your rebuttal ends there.

Will he be able to keep the touches/TD ratio up in the NFL as he has thus far? Certainly not, but it is a good barometer to measure what potential success he may have considering he's already putting up those numbers.

It would seem that you would be excited about your rookie QB having a ratio like that, but instead you try to pull negatives from something as promising as Tebow's touches/TD ratio was.
Wrong. He said multiple yrs of data (college) proves it wasn't an aberation.
This isn't college.
TT learned that the first time he ran for a TD in preseason.

"pull negatives"?

Rational thinking ≠ rash thinking.
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vandammage13
03-09-2011, 02:30 PM
Wrong. He said multiple yrs of data (college) proves it wasn't an aberation.
This isn't college.
TT learned that the first time he ran for a TD in preseason.
Rational thinking ≠ rash thinking.
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The ratio still went up when he got to the NFL, not down.

I think the real enlightening thing here is not Bullgator's blind man-love for Tebow, but the fact that you are unwilling to be optimistic about the prospects of Tebow, despite his promising performances thus far.

Nothing positive to say about him at all, just negativity when there really aren't too many negatives to speak of other than the same regurgitated nonsense about his throwing motion that has yet to rear its head as actually being something that will hold him back.

As a Bronco fan, i don't see how you aren't pumped up about him being here.

Lonestar
03-09-2011, 03:16 PM
The ratio still went up when he got to the NFL, not down.

I think the real enlightening thing here is not Bullgator's blind man-love for Tebow, but the fact that you are unwilling to be optimistic about the prospects of Tebow, despite his promising performances thus far.

Nothing positive to say about him at all, just negativity when there really aren't too many negatives to speak of other than the same regurgitated nonsense about his throwing motion that has yet to rear its head as actually being something that will hold him back.

As a Bronco fan, i don't see how you aren't pumped up about him being here.


Stands to reason that had Tebow been on the field for many of those drives we would not have been deep in the redone for him to work his magic earlier in the season.

the TD to play ratio would have been a lot poorer.

Now I'm talking logical thought here NOT emotional.

That said I like the kid from the get go.

I am concerned that he did not get any Reps other than scout squad last year till he had to start..

I still think he is a year maybe two away from being a full time starter, without any flaws to work on ie: throwing mechanics, reading complex NFL defenses, taking the hand off from center most of the time.

Allow him to get practice, film time and lots of time in TC and I may adjust my thinking on him.

I believe the kid is our FQB that so many have been pining for since JOhn Left.

vandammage13
03-09-2011, 03:28 PM
Stands to reason that had Tebow been on the field for many of those drives we would not have been deep in the redone for him to work his magic earlier in the season.

the TD to play ratio would have been a lot poorer.

Now I'm talking logical thought here NOT emotional.

That said I like the kid from the get go.

I am concerned that he did not get any Reps other than scout squad last year till he had to start..

I still think he is a year maybe two away from being a full time starter, without any flaws to work on ie: throwing mechanics, reading complex NFL defenses, taking the hand off from center most of the time.

Allow him to get practice, film time and lots of time in TC and I may adjust my thinking on him.

I believe the kid is our FQB that so many have been pining for since JOhn Left.

I stated in an earlier post that there is no way Tebow would keep that ratio up. His goaline duty before becoming the starter was the clear reason for that ratio. Still, it shows that he is capapble of having great success when on the goaline. Probably moreso than most QBs.

rcsodak
03-09-2011, 04:05 PM
The ratio still went up when he got to the NFL, not down.

I think the real enlightening thing here is not Bullgator's blind man-love for Tebow, but the fact that you are unwilling to be optimistic about the prospects of Tebow, despite his promising performances thus far.

Nothing positive to say about him at all, just negativity when there really aren't too many negatives to speak of other than the same regurgitated nonsense about his throwing motion that has yet to rear its head as actually being something that will hold him back.

As a Bronco fan, i don't see how you aren't pumped up about him being here.
I've not commented on his throwing motion, or lack thereof, since I'm not a scout/coach/analyst...
And you probably wont find much" negativity" about him or his play, in my posts.

Evidently posters have to step all over themselves in handing out accolades for TT or we're considered haters.
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vandammage13
03-09-2011, 05:50 PM
I've not commented on his throwing motion, or lack thereof, since I'm not a scout/coach/analyst...
And you probably wont find much" negativity" about him or his play, in my posts.

Evidently posters have to step all over themselves in handing out accolades for TT or we're considered haters.
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While it is true that you may not make outright negative indictments, you sure are very quick to strike down any praise of Tebow. Its fine, really, as there is nothing wrong with having an opinion on the matter. Just don't try to hide behind the slight ambiguity of your comments when it is very transparent what your opinion actually is.

Agent of Orange
03-09-2011, 06:08 PM
I've not commented on his throwing motion, or lack thereof, since I'm not a scout/coach/analyst...
And you probably wont find much" negativity" about him or his play, in my posts.

Evidently posters have to step all over themselves in handing out accolades for TT or we're considered haters.
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The offense scores more when Tebow plays. In the end, thats what matters most and Tebow is just getting started. Either that means Tebow is pretty good or Orton is really bad. Perhaps a combination. But however you look at it, the numbers tell you who is better, and its Tebow.

But go ahead and keep dancing around this reality. You're providing a lot of entertainment.

Lonestar
03-09-2011, 09:44 PM
I stated in an earlier post that there is no way Tebow would keep that ratio up. His goaline duty before becoming the starter was the clear reason for that ratio. Still, it shows that he is capapble of having great success when on the goaline. Probably moreso than most QBs.

The post was not totally directed at you as a few of his band wagoneers and tebowites have stated some of those stats adnauseum.

I thought it wise to state the obvious for them..

I re-read your post and Meaculpa.

Yes I believe he will have a higher ratio of running TD thtn most other FQB will have.

Lonestar
03-09-2011, 09:50 PM
I've not commented on his throwing motion, or lack thereof, since I'm not a scout/coach/analyst...
And you probably wont find much" negativity" about him or his play, in my posts.

Evidently posters have to step all over themselves in handing out accolades for TT or we're considered haters.
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Take a number..


The offense scores more when Tebow plays. In the end, thats what matters most and Tebow is just getting started. Either that means Tebow is pretty good or Orton is really bad. Perhaps a combination. But however you look at it, the numbers tell you who is better, and its Tebow.

But go ahead and keep dancing around this reality. You're providing a lot of entertainment.


yes the scores were indeed higher when Tebow was in.. But then the oline was finally stable, moreno and his RB group finally figured out that those holes the OL was opening was for running through and not dancing behind. and the Defense Bless their lost should actually stepped up their game, or maybe it was Wink finally put to together game plans that worked better.

Trust me when I say this it was not JUST TEBOW that caused the win or closer losses.

It was the team that won or lost the games.

That is from a guy that likes Tebow have been fan of his since before the draft.

Now that said I also think Orton would have done better than his average games in those last few games that Tebow started in once he was healed up from the rib injury..

bcbronc
03-09-2011, 09:53 PM
^ and don't forget it was teams out of the playoffs playing teams out of the playoffs.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-09-2011, 10:10 PM
^ and don't forget it was teams out of the playoffs playing teams out of the playoffs.

Bah, I don't believe that for a minute and neither do you. Two of them were division rivalries. It's like saying Michigan/Ohio State wouldn't mean anything if the big-10 title and bowl bid wasn't on the line. Preposterous. Had The Chargers and Raiders not played to win, they wouldn't have hung 30 points on our defense and the Texans wouldn't have scored near that amount nor would any of them have played their starters past the 1st quarter.

There are plenty of things you can criticize about Tebow's play those 3 games, but the level of competition or acting as though the other teams were "not playing hard" and that made Tebow look better is ridiculous. Arizona wasn't playing for shit the week before either, and they sure took Kyle Orton to the woodshed...

topscribe
03-09-2011, 11:06 PM
Bah, I don't believe that for a minute and neither do you. Two of them were division rivalries. It's like saying Michigan/Ohio State wouldn't mean anything if the big-10 title and bowl bid wasn't on the line. Preposterous. Had The Chargers and Raiders not played to win, they wouldn't have hung 30 points on our defense and the Texans wouldn't have scored near that amount nor would any of them have played their starters past the 1st quarter.

There are plenty of things you can criticize about Tebow's play those 3 games, but the level of competition or acting as though the other teams were "not playing hard" and that made Tebow look better is ridiculous. Arizona wasn't playing for shit the week before either, and they sure took Kyle Orton to the woodshed...

C'mon, HP, you're better than that. Why are you citing a game Orton was
playing with busted up ribs, for pity's sake? That's like saying a sprinter with
a hamstring injury didn't run worth a crap.

Tebow doesn't need that, anyway. He did a marvelous job in those games.
Why conjur up a bogus comparison?

-----

chazoe60
03-09-2011, 11:10 PM
So, is the fact that it's even a discussion (a 6 year vet versus a 1 year player who many said could never play in the NFL with three starts) more of an indictment against Orton or a good sign for Tebow?

topscribe
03-09-2011, 11:15 PM
So, is the fact that it's even a discussion (a 6 year vet versus a 1 year player who many said could never play in the NFL with three starts) more of an indictment against Orton or a good sign for Tebow?

It's called subterfuge, misdirection, and sophistry.

It has deteriorated to the point where there's not a lot of fact coming from either side . . .

-----

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 05:42 AM
It's called subterfuge, misdirection, and sophistry.

It has deteriorated to the point where there's not a lot of fact coming from either side . . .

-----

I find it hilarious that I've yet to see anybody really say TT sucks, and yet, his minion continually keep extolling his virtues.
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jhns
03-10-2011, 09:19 AM
Take a number..




yes the scores were indeed higher when Tebow was in.. But then the oline was finally stable, moreno and his RB group finally figured out that those holes the OL was opening was for running through and not dancing behind. and the Defense Bless their lost should actually stepped up their game, or maybe it was Wink finally put to together game plans that worked better.

Trust me when I say this it was not JUST TEBOW that caused the win or closer losses.

It was the team that won or lost the games.

That is from a guy that likes Tebow have been fan of his since before the draft.

Now that said I also think Orton would have done better than his average games in those last few games that Tebow started in once he was healed up from the rib injury..

That is a lot of lies. First off, Tebows first game was the worst game plan I have ever seen. They had a position coach filling in for head coach and a first time play caller on offense. They didn't look better the week before when Orton was in. The defense was the same but just stayed fired up. You want to take credit from Tebow but it was his leadership that made a difference. That and the fact that we had an actual offense to keep us in the games. The defense gets tired and down when the offense is complete junk...

As for the run game and Moreno, that is some uninformed stuff you are spewing.

Game 1 for Tebow: Ball -15 carries for 20 yards, Moreno - 4 carries for 5 yards, Buck - 6 carries for 3 yards

Game 2 for Tebow: Buck - 11 carries for 42 yards, Ball - 5 carries for 38 yards, Moreno - 7 carries for 19 yards.

Game 3 for Tebow: Moreno - 6 carries for 41 yards, Ball - 6 carries for 21 yards, Buck - 3 carries for 8 yards, Lloyd - 1 carry for -18 yards

Just to make sure they are getting full credit, these backs also got one TD in those three games.

This team averaged 96.5 rushing yards per game. The backs passed that total once with Tebow by a couple yards. Orton had multiple games where the backs rushed for over 100 yards. Tebow had 0... The Tebow led Broncos scored more in every game than this teams average points under Orton. You can try finding all the excuses you want but it is pretty easy to see that Tebow was the difference. He did it with rookie coaches. He did it as a rookie. Therr is no way to spin it that shows Tebow didn't completely outplay Orton.

So Moreno and the line were that much better for Tebow? He had 65 yards in 3 games...

Edit: Just wanted to add some other running stats. The run game averaged 82 rushing yards per game that did not come from Orton rushing, while Orton was in. The Tebow led Broncos averaged 65.67 ypg, not including Tebow rushing. I even put an Orton spin on this. I didn't count the huge negative rushing play by Lloyd when figuring out the Tebow led broncos total. I subtracted those plays from the total rushing when figuring out the Orton led Broncos average.

BroncoStud
03-10-2011, 09:23 AM
C'mon, HP, you're better than that. Why are you citing a game Orton was
playing with busted up ribs, for pity's sake? That's like saying a sprinter with
a hamstring injury didn't run worth a crap.

Tebow doesn't need that, anyway. He did a marvelous job in those games.
Why conjur up a bogus comparison?

-----

Orton was NOT on the injury report, not once until he got benched for his poor play after the Arizona game.

There is ZERO proof of this "injury" you keep referring to. What a joke.

claymore
03-10-2011, 09:24 AM
Bottom line... We have a pretty bad situation at QB.

jhns
03-10-2011, 09:30 AM
Bottom line... We have a pretty bad situation at QB.

We were the # 7 scoring offense with Tebow in. How is that bad?

Agent of Orange
03-10-2011, 11:19 AM
It's called subterfuge, misdirection, and sophistry.

It has deteriorated to the point where there's not a lot of fact coming from either side . . .

-----

OK, here's a fact: When Tebow played the offense scored at least 21 points every game. When Orton started, the Broncos failed to score 21 points 9 out of 13 times.

vandammage13
03-10-2011, 11:24 AM
That is a lot of lies. First off, Tebows first game was the worst game plan I have ever seen. They had a position coach filling in for head coach and a first time play caller on offense. They didn't look better the week before when Orton was in. The defense was the same but just stayed fired up. You want to take credit from Tebow but it was his leadership that made a difference. That and the fact that we had an actual offense to keep us in the games. The defense gets tired and down when the offense is complete junk...

As for the run game and Moreno, that is some uninformed stuff you are spewing.

Game 1 for Tebow: Ball -15 carries for 20 yards, Moreno - 4 carries for 5 yards, Buck - 6 carries for 3 yards

Game 2 for Tebow: Buck - 11 carries for 42 yards, Ball - 5 carries for 38 yards, Moreno - 7 carries for 19 yards.

Game 3 for Tebow: Moreno - 6 carries for 41 yards, Ball - 6 carries for 21 yards, Buck - 3 carries for 8 yards, Lloyd - 1 carry for -18 yards

Just to make sure they are getting full credit, these backs also got one TD in those three games.

This team averaged 96.5 rushing yards per game. The backs passed that total once with Tebow by a couple yards. Orton had multiple games where the backs rushed for over 100 yards. Tebow had 0... The Tebow led Broncos scored more in every game than this teams average points under Orton. You can try finding all the excuses you want but it is pretty easy to see that Tebow was the difference. He did it with rookie coaches. He did it as a rookie. Therr is no way to spin it that shows Tebow didn't completely outplay Orton.

So Moreno and the line were that much better for Tebow? He had 65 yards in 3 games...

Edit: Just wanted to add some other running stats. The run game averaged 82 rushing yards per game that did not come from Orton rushing, while Orton was in. The Tebow led Broncos averaged 65.67 ypg, not including Tebow rushing. I even put an Orton spin on this. I didn't count the huge negative rushing play by Lloyd when figuring out the Tebow led broncos total. I subtracted those plays from the total rushing when figuring out the Orton led Broncos average.

It doesn't surprise me that you haven't recieved one response from the detractors. Usually when you provide facts that debunk their myths they won't acknowledge you.

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 11:24 AM
OK, here's a fact. When Tebow played the offense scored at least 21 points every game. When Orton started, the Broncos failed to score 21 points 9 out of 13 times.
So what.

Prove they wouldn't have scored 23 behind KO.
Against Houston's piss poor pass D, KO might've went off for 600yds/5td's.
:rolleyes:
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SR
03-10-2011, 11:25 AM
I'm going to evaluate an offensive player other than Tim Tebow or Kyle Orton. We'll pick....Ryan Clady. He needs to have a better season next time there is a season. That is all.

vandammage13
03-10-2011, 11:25 AM
So what.

Prove they wouldn't have scored 23 behind KO.

:rolleyes:
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KO's last 3 games are pretty good proof.

Agent of Orange
03-10-2011, 11:28 AM
So what.

Prove they wouldn't have scored 23 behind KO.

:rolleyes:
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How many times did the offense hit 21 points under Orton's 13 starts? There's your answer.

claymore
03-10-2011, 11:30 AM
We were the # 7 scoring offense with Tebow in. How is that bad?

He got progressively worse as the competition stiffened, and and the film on him became available.

It will be much harder for him next year. 3 non playoff, shit teams, and he got progressively worse.

My prediction, he gets hurt by game 7 IF he beats out Orton.

topscribe
03-10-2011, 11:31 AM
I find it hilarious that I've yet to see anybody really say TT sucks, and yet, his minion continually keep extolling his virtues.
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I can't see what most of the minions are saying, but it looks like they are all
hanging out at this thread. :lol:

-----

Agent of Orange
03-10-2011, 11:32 AM
KO's last 3 games are pretty good proof.

And even if you exclude the last three games, the offense was only scoring 21 points 3 out of 10 of Orton's starts. Injured or not, its still bad.

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 11:37 AM
How many times did the offense hit 21 points under Orton's 13 starts? There's your answer.

No. That's your answer.

It is utterly ridiculous to EVER compare players. Why, you ask? Variables.
Its all only guess work, with no "facts" that can't be refuted.
Somebody can be as scientific as they want to be, about it..... still nothing but guesswork and posturing.
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SR
03-10-2011, 11:39 AM
Comparing players is a necessity.

jhns
03-10-2011, 11:41 AM
He got progressively worse as the competition stiffened, and and the film on him became available.

It will be much harder for him next year. 3 non playoff, shit teams, and he got progressively worse.

My prediction, he gets hurt by game 7 IF he beats out Orton.

Now you are just looking for reasons to hate. We scored more points in his third start than in his second. We scored more in his second start than his first. His yards went up in his second two starts and he had his highest TD total in the last start. Again, the team also scored more than Ortons average in each of those three games.

Its always nice to predict injuries for players. I bet Orton gets hurt by game 10 if he starts. It is pretty much guaranteed he wont finish the season healthy. All the more reason to see what Tebow can do starting a full season.

Agent of Orange
03-10-2011, 11:46 AM
No. That's your answer.

It is utterly ridiculous to EVER compare players. Why, you ask? Variables.
Its all only guess work, with no "facts" that can't be refuted.
Somebody can be as scientific as they want to be, about it..... still nothing but guesswork and posturing.
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Its not my answer. Those are the numbers. To put it as a % for you, there was around a 30% chance of the offense hitting 21 poitns under Orton.

Speaking of posturing. Thats all you have to go by since the numbers aren't backing you up. You probably shouldn't have introduced "guesswork and posturing" into the discussion.

jhns
03-10-2011, 11:47 AM
No. That's your answer.

It is utterly ridiculous to EVER compare players. Why, you ask? Variables.
Its all only guess work, with no "facts" that can't be refuted.
Somebody can be as scientific as they want to be, about it..... still nothing but guesswork and posturing.
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Now that is just funny. All proof says Tebow played better so now you spin it into the proof doesnt count.

Tebow scored more than 21 in 3 ouf oc 3 starts. Orton scored more than 21 in 4 of 13 starts. Tebow had a worse run game supporting him, so what is the excuse for not being able to compare them?

Agent of Orange
03-10-2011, 11:52 AM
Now that is just funny. All proof says Tebow played better so now you spin it into the proof doesnt count.

Tebow scored more than 21 in 3 ouf oc 3 starts. Orton scored more than 21 in 4 of 13 starts. Tebow had a worse run game supporting him, so what is the excuse for not being able to compare them?

And lets also not forget that Tebow had minimal reps during the first 13 weeks of the season. He was thrown in cold. Orton was the starter carrying over from last year. He had every advantage where reps and practice time are concerned. Nevertheless, 3/3 vs. 4/13. And its worth adding that it wasnt even a certainty that Tebow would start against the Raiders. Its not like he had starters reps all week. Oh, and Tebow was a rookie.

claymore
03-10-2011, 11:52 AM
Now you are just looking for reasons to hate. We scored more points in his third start than in his second. We scored more in his second start than his first. His yards went up in his second two starts and he had his highest TD total in the last start. Again, the team also scored more than Ortons average in each of those three games.

Its always nice to predict injuries for players. I bet Orton gets hurt by game 10 if he starts. It is pretty much guaranteed he wont finish the season healthy. All the more reason to see what Tebow can do starting a full season.

I think Tebow has a higher chance of getting hurt because of his style of play.

His turnovers, and sack rate went up. It trippled. His QB rating went waaaaaaaaaaay down. Thats not finding a reason to hate. That is looking at an overall performance.

The more film teams have on Tebow the worse he will do.

SR
03-10-2011, 11:55 AM
Tebow won't milk injuries though. I'll give him that. He'll get smoked and pop right back up and pretend like it didn't hurt. Orton gets blown down by a stiff breeze and acts like the Fridge Perry landed on top of him.

jhns
03-10-2011, 11:57 AM
I think Tebow has a higher chance of getting hurt because of his style of play.

His turnovers, and sack rate went up. It trippled. His QB rating went waaaaaaaaaaay down. Thats not finding a reason to hate. That is looking at an overall performance.

The more film teams have on Tebow the worse he will do.

Then that is your prediction. I just dont get why ypu wouldnt still agree that he is a better option than Orton. He would have to do much worse to be as bad as Orton has been. Injury cant be what seperates them when Orton is injured every season that he plays.

I predict Tebow will only get better as he gets experience and coaching. No one can deny that he is willing to put the work in.

vandammage13
03-10-2011, 11:59 AM
No. That's your answer.

It is utterly ridiculous to EVER compare players. Why, you ask? Variables.
Its all only guess work, with no "facts" that can't be refuted.
Somebody can be as scientific as they want to be, about it..... still nothing but guesswork and posturing.
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I guess it is rediculous to compare Elway to Griese/Plummer or even Orton for that matter. By your logic you can't really make a comparison and say Elway was better because there are just too many variables involved.

vandammage13
03-10-2011, 12:02 PM
I think Tebow has a higher chance of getting hurt because of his style of play.

His turnovers, and sack rate went up. It trippled. His QB rating went waaaaaaaaaaay down. Thats not finding a reason to hate. That is looking at an overall performance.

The more film teams have on Tebow the worse he will do.

His turnovers and sack rate went up from what? He only played 3 games. Yeah I guess they did go up from 0 in the first 13 games where he barely played.

Lonestar
03-10-2011, 12:04 PM
It doesn't surprise me that you haven't recieved one response from the detractors. Usually when you provide facts that debunk their myths they won't acknowledge you.

I will respond to this post only because it is shorter and I can see it all on the mobile site.

I guess the numbers do not lie.

But the games I saw Moreno actually ran with authority and broke some tackles and hit the holes created by the OL.

That was something I did not see at all in the earlier games.

Perhaps it was not so much about the totality of the yards or TDs but the actual quality of the runs I was talking about.

Maybe it was finally some continuity of the OL with Harris actually playing and Zane back at the position he played all of the preseason at.
While they were banged up from the long season, kuper was doing better, beadles and JD having more exprience and Harris back. The OL was better IMHO.
Same applies to Moreno he was gimpy most of the year. Helooked better those last few games. Perhaps tyw defense just could not key on him with Tebow back there.

Y'all think it is love of Orton but I'm unemotional about him or Tebow I like them both.

Unlike some of y'all that flat hate Orton for many reasons mostly because he is not jay or he was Joshes choice.

Someday when you have seen as many changes in the coaching, QBs or other players it wil not be as traumatic as y'all think it is.

Hope that clarifies my post.
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jhns
03-10-2011, 12:07 PM
I will respond to this post only because it is shorter and I can see it all on the mobile site.

I guess the numbers do not lie.

But the games I saw Moreno actually ran with authority and broke some tackles and hit the holes created by the OL.

That was something I did not see at all in the earlier games.

Perhaps it was not so much about the totality of the yards or TDs but the actual quality of the runs I was talking about.

Maybe it was finally some continuity of the OL with Harris actually playing and Zane back at the position he played all of the preseason at.
While they were banged up from the long season, kuper was doing better, beadles and JD having more exprience and Harris back. The OL was better IMHO.
Same applies to Moreno he was gimpy most of the year. Helooked better those last few games. Perhaps tyw defense just could not key on him with Tebow back there.

Y'all think it is love of Orton but I'm unemotional about him or Tebow I like them both.

Unlike some of y'all that flat hate Orton for many reasons mostly because he is not jay or he was Joshes choice.

Someday when you have seen as many changes in the coaching, QBs or other players it wil not be as traumatic as y'all think it is.

Hope that clarifies my post.
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You still arent making sense. Moreno had 60 yards in those three games because he was injured and didnt play the majority of the time. How can he have more quality runs as he averages 20 yards per game? I dont think you are remembering this right. Moreno had some great games the few weeks before Tebow came in and then got injured again.

vandammage13
03-10-2011, 12:08 PM
I will respond to this post only because it is shorter and I can see it all on the mobile site.

I guess the numbers do not lie.

But the games I saw Moreno actually ran with authority and broke some tackles and hit the holes created by the OL.

That was something I did not see at all in the earlier games.

Perhaps it was not so much about the totality of the yards or TDs but the actual quality of the runs I was talking about.

Maybe it was finally some continuity of the OL with Harris actually playing and Zane back at the position he played all of the preseason at.
While they were banged up from the long season, kuper was doing better, beadles and JD having more exprience and Harris back. The OL was better IMHO.
Same applies to Moreno he was gimpy most of the year. Helooked better those last few games. Perhaps tyw defense just could not key on him with Tebow back there.

Y'all think it is love of Orton but I'm unemotional about him or Tebow I like them both.

Unlike some of y'all that flat hate Orton for many reasons mostly because he is not jay or he was Joshes choice.

Someday when you have seen as many changes in the coaching, QBs or other players it wil not be as traumatic as y'all think it is.

Hope that clarifies my post.
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Your post provided a little bit of clarity. Still it seems you are basing your assertion of the running game being better just based on your perception of it, not actual facts. The numbers don't lie and show it was actually worse (as far as production from the RB position).

Perhaps your perception of the running game being better is skewed due to the fact that Tebow was running for like 75+ yards a game.

topscribe
03-10-2011, 12:25 PM
I will respond to this post only because it is shorter and I can see it all on the mobile site.

I guess the numbers do not lie.

But the games I saw Moreno actually ran with authority and broke some tackles and hit the holes created by the OL.

That was something I did not see at all in the earlier games.

Perhaps it was not so much about the totality of the yards or TDs but the actual quality of the runs I was talking about.

Maybe it was finally some continuity of the OL with Harris actually playing and Zane back at the position he played all of the preseason at.
While they were banged up from the long season, kuper was doing better, beadles and JD having more exprience and Harris back. The OL was better IMHO.
Same applies to Moreno he was gimpy most of the year. Helooked better those last few games. Perhaps tyw defense just could not key on him with Tebow back there.

Y'all think it is love of Orton but I'm unemotional about him or Tebow I like them both.

Unlike some of y'all that flat hate Orton for many reasons mostly because he is not jay or he was Joshes choice.

Someday when you have seen as many changes in the coaching, QBs or other players it wil not be as traumatic as y'all think it is.

Hope that clarifies my post.
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I think you made it very clear.

Not that it will make much difference . . . :deadhorse:

-----

topscribe
03-10-2011, 12:29 PM
Tebow won't milk injuries though. I'll give him that. He'll get smoked and pop right back up and pretend like it didn't hurt. Orton gets blown down by a stiff breeze and acts like the Fridge Perry landed on top of him.

Not true. As evidenced by some of the posting right here on this forum, many
fans didn't even know Orton was hurt his final two games. He denied even that
he was hurt. Come to find out, his ribs were injured on BOTH sides, hence the
SUDDEN decline in his performance.

There are aspects of Orton's game he needs to work on, yes. But don't try to
take his toughness away from him. The guy is tough as nails. Any attempts to
assert differently is just foolish . . .

-----

SR
03-10-2011, 12:31 PM
Maybe we can change this thread topic to "Vikings & Tebow".

jhns
03-10-2011, 12:36 PM
I think you made it very clear.

Not that it will make much difference . . . :deadhorse:

-----

It doesnt make a bit of difference. No one arguing against Tebow, or for Orton, can bring any facts to the discussion. I am just seeing imagination and off topic jabs, loke the one I just quoted.

I wonder why that is...

Agent of Orange
03-10-2011, 12:40 PM
It doesnt make a bit of difference. No one arguing against Tebow, or for Orton, can bring any facts to the discussion. I am just seeing imagination and off topic jabs, loke the one I just quoted.

I wonder why that is...

Not true. Orton is tough...and you can't take that away from him. BWAHHHH!

vandammage13
03-10-2011, 12:42 PM
Not true. As evidenced by some of the posting right here on this forum, many
fans didn't even know Orton was hurt his final two games. He denied even that
he was hurt. Come to find out, his ribs were injured on BOTH sides, hence the
SUDDEN decline in his performance.

There are aspects of Orton's game he needs to work on, yes. But don't try to
take his toughness away from him. The guy is tough as nails. Any attempts to
assert differently is just foolish . . .

-----

You are blind Top...The "rib injury" was a convenient excuse conjured up so that it would not be shown that Orton was benched due to performance. This was done to protect his trade value.

Everyone would know they could get him for much cheaper if he wasn't the clear starter. Recent wishy-washy stances on Orton's starting status indicate the same. If you can't see that the FO is just posturing to protect his trade value then that's on you.

BroncoStud
03-10-2011, 12:44 PM
Not true. As evidenced by some of the posting right here on this forum, many
fans didn't even know Orton was hurt his final two games. He denied even that
he was hurt. Come to find out, his ribs were injured on BOTH sides, hence the
SUDDEN decline in his performance.

There are aspects of Orton's game he needs to work on, yes. But don't try to
take his toughness away from him. The guy is tough as nails. Any attempts to
assert differently is just foolish . . .

-----

Right... Orton fades every season but he is "tough as nails"... Whatever, I'm glad you have me on ignore because it's just too easy to poke holes in you and rd's absurd posts...

Once again, Kyle wasn't on the injury report until the 2nd Oakland game, so he doesn't get to use all those weeks he sucked as an excuse.

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 12:47 PM
Comparing players is a necessity.
To fight Forum Offseason Doldrums, I guess. Nothing beyond that.
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BroncoStud
03-10-2011, 12:49 PM
To fight Forum Offseason Doldrums, I guess. Nothing beyond that.
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It will be a good day when Orton is traded... A very good day. :salute:

SR
03-10-2011, 12:49 PM
We have to compare players to determine who is great and who is not. When people say "Player X" is one of the greatest players of all time, that is in comparison to every other player ever. We can't determine who is great without comparing them to everyone else...

BroncoStud
03-10-2011, 12:51 PM
We have to compare players to determine who is great and who is not. When people say "Player X" is one of the greatest players of all time, that is in comparison to every other player ever. We can't determine who is great without comparing them to everyone else...

We all agree with you, except 2 people... Not hard to figure out who I would imagine.

topscribe
03-10-2011, 12:51 PM
To fight Forum Offseason Doldrums, I guess. Nothing beyond that.
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Well, the coaches compare. But if three games were sufficient for them, they
wouldn't be talking about competing for the starting job this year. How the
coaches compare is that they observe each QB every day on the practice field
and in preseason games for several weeks. If they make up their minds more
quickly, as they did last year, then that means there is a wide gap between
their elect and those who are destined to back him up.

So, as you implied, it's fun . . . for some, I guess . . . to compare them on these
message boards. But not very scientific, for sure . . .

-----

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 12:55 PM
Its not my answer. Those are the numbers. To put it as a % for you, there was around a 30% chance of the offense hitting 21 poitns under Orton.

Speaking of posturing. Thats all you have to go by since the numbers aren't backing you up. You probably shouldn't have introduced "guesswork and posturing" into the discussion.
What numbers did I introduce? Dood, you crazy, yo.

What..no defense to my argument? Or did I just miss it?
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BroncoStud
03-10-2011, 12:57 PM
Well, the coaches compare. But if three games were sufficient for them, they
wouldn't be talking about competing for the starting job this year. How the
coaches compare is that they observe each QB every day on the practice field
and in preseason games for several weeks. If they make up their minds more
quickly, as they did last year, then that means there is a wide gap between
their elect and those who are destined to back him up.

So, as you implied, it's fun . . . for some, I guess . . . to compare them on these
message boards. But not very scientific, for sure . . .

-----

*Watch every Broncos game*

See Orton play

See Tebow play

*Tebow looks better, stronger arm, more mobility, more playmaking, more scoring, more talent*

*See Orton sulk on the bench*

*Hear Orton say he deserves to be the starter because of his mediocre play*

*Hear Tebow say competition is FINE with him, bring it on*


You sit with your microscope and labcoat conducting a scientific examination of the situation and I will be smiling all day in the coming weeks when Orton is traded.

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:04 PM
Now that is just funny. All proof says Tebow played better so now you spin it into the proof doesnt count.

Tebow scored more than 21 in 3 ouf oc 3 starts. Orton scored more than 21 in 4 of 13 starts. Tebow had a worse run game supporting him, so what is the excuse for not being able to compare them?
When I get home I'm gonna slap my teacher wife for failing in educating the nebraska youth. .tsk.

Hint: Variables.
(There's no such thing as "with all things the same')
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SR
03-10-2011, 01:04 PM
You're married? To a woman? This whole time I thought you were limp wristed.

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:07 PM
Tebow won't milk injuries though. I'll give him that. He'll get smoked and pop right back up and pretend like it didn't hurt. Orton gets blown down by a stiff breeze and acts like the Fridge Perry landed on top of him.
Yeah....lol....I especially remember when he made that big deal with his bone sticking out of his finger. WHATABABY

:coffee:
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jhns
03-10-2011, 01:08 PM
When I get home I'm gonna slap my teacher wife for failing in educating the nebraska youth. .tsk.

Hint: Variables.
(There's no such thing as "with all things the same')
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Variables like Tebow had less of a run game helping him?

You have not brought a single thing to any of these discussions. This would be because you have nothing. Thanks for playing.

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:11 PM
I guess it is rediculous to compare Elway to Griese/Plummer or even Orton for that matter. By your logic you can't really make a comparison and say Elway was better because there are just too many variables involved.
Another one..... .tsk:

In his situation, it is what it is. He got/earned his jacket. Put him on a different team, who knows.

Variables.
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BroncoStud
03-10-2011, 01:13 PM
After some extensive number crunching I have determined that Orton faced .000351% more wind per pass attempt than Tebow did. That explains it.

Variables.

vandammage13
03-10-2011, 01:14 PM
Another one..... .tsk:

In his situation, it is what it is. He got/earned his jacket. Put him on a different team, who knows.

Variables.
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I guess you are right. I guess Orton has just been a victim of circumstance and variables throughout his entire playoff-less career.

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:18 PM
Your post provided a little bit of clarity. Still it seems you are basing your assertion of the running game being better just based on your perception of it, not actual facts. The numbers don't lie and show it was actually worse (as far as production from the RB position).

Perhaps your perception of the running game being better is skewed due to the fact that Tebow was running for like 75+ yards a game.
So what happened to ya' lls claim that TT raised the play of EVERYBODY on the team (D incl)?

Back in reality.....didn't Ball/Buck get more touches, post McD)? With positive results?
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rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:19 PM
Maybe we can change this thread topic to "Vikings & Tebow".

Tebow slayed the Vikings
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rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:24 PM
You are blind Top...The "rib injury" was a convenient excuse conjured up so that it would not be shown that Orton was benched due to performance. This was done to protect his trade value.

Everyone would know they could get him for much cheaper if he wasn't the clear starter. Recent wishy-washy stances on Orton's starting status indicate the same. If you can't see that the FO is just posturing to protect his trade value then that's on you.

If that's the case, then why are y'all so scared TT will be snubbed? Why argue? Just sit back and smile, all the while KNOWING, that you're right and Orton will not be the starting qb.

:coffee:
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rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:25 PM
We have to compare players to determine who is great and who is not. When people say "Player X" is one of the greatest players of all time, that is in comparison to every other player ever. We can't determine who is great without comparing them to everyone else...
Ok.
:coffee:
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rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:27 PM
You're married? To a woman? This whole time I thought you were limp wristed.shhh.....nut might hear you.
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rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:29 PM
Variables like Tebow had less of a run game helping him?

You have not brought a single thing to any of these discussions. This would be because you have nothing. Thanks for playing.
Too far over your head?
I understand.
:coffee:
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BroncoStud
03-10-2011, 01:30 PM
This is the same thing Orton did to Bears fans. Orton vs Grossman, Orton vs Griese... It didn't matter, the guy causes controversy because he isn't good enough to start but doesn't suck either.

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:30 PM
I guess you are right. I guess Orton has just been a victim of circumstance and variables throughout his entire playoff-less career.
There might be hope for you yet.

Except its still not a sure thing.
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jhns
03-10-2011, 01:31 PM
Too far over your head?
I understand.
:coffee:
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Again, nothing. What a surprise.

rcsodak
03-10-2011, 01:39 PM
Again, nothing. What a surprise.
And you can only act like a trite little man? Is that how to debate?

Want a variable maybe you can hold onto?
Imagine you being conceived 1second later.
what are the chances you end up in the same family....same city...same state....same country?

Hohum.....
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jhns
03-10-2011, 01:44 PM
And you can only act like a trite little man? Is that how to debate?

Want a variable maybe you can hold onto?
Imagine you being conceived 1second later.
what are the chances you end up in the same family....same city...same state....same country?

Hohum.....
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I have come with my opinions and put lots of work into bringing many facts. You bring, "nuh uh!" and "You dont know my opinion!" a bunch of times without ever giving it. You are now telling me how to debate? That is funny stuff.

vandammage13
03-10-2011, 02:03 PM
If that's the case, then why are y'all so scared TT will be snubbed? Why argue? Just sit back and smile, all the while KNOWING, that you're right and Orton will not be the starting qb.

:coffee:
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When have I ever said I was worried about that? The only thing Orton has going for him is a fledgling CBA. That's his only chance. Even then, its a remote one that I'm not too worried about.

Still, it is interesting to talk about things with people of opposing views. If everyone thought the same way I did, there wouldn't be much point to me frequenting this board.

Agent of Orange
03-10-2011, 02:24 PM
What numbers did I introduce? Dood, you crazy, yo.

What..no defense to my argument? Or did I just miss it?
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You obviously have problems with reading. I didn't say you introduced numbers. On the contrary. What I said was you shouldn't have introduced the words "guesswork" and "posturing" since, ironically, that's what you rely on.

chazoe60
03-10-2011, 02:25 PM
Not true. As evidenced by some of the posting right here on this forum, many
fans didn't even know Orton was hurt his final two games. He denied even that
he was hurt. Come to find out, his ribs were injured on BOTH sides, hence the
SUDDEN decline in his performance.

There are aspects of Orton's game he needs to work on, yes. But don't try to
take his toughness away from him. The guy is tough as nails. Any attempts to
assert differently is just foolish . . .

-----
That's one of the odd things about Orton IMHO, he is very tough and despite that, us shows many moments of extreme cowardice when he has the ball. Way too many easy sacks that look like "oh God don't hurt me! Here, I'll fall down for you!" moments.

Denying that Orton is tough is foolish, but so is denying that he is extremely easy to tackle for an an NFL starting QB.

I think it would also be foolish to deny that to this point in his Bronco career he has not proven to be a clutch player when he needs to be.


Here's what I'm curious about from the Orton fans. Do you honestly see Orton as our starting QB for the next 8 to 10 years? If so, does that prospect excite you, and make you hopeful for the future of this franchise? I would like civil discussion about the issue and some actual opinions, not just post bashing with no real substance(RC).

topscribe
03-10-2011, 02:38 PM
That's one of the odd things about Orton IMHO, he is very tough and despite that, us shows many moments of extreme cowardice when he has the ball. Way too many easy sacks that look like "oh God don't hurt me! Here, I'll fall down for you!" moments.

Denying that Orton is tough is foolish, but so is denying that he is extremely easy to tackle for an an NFL starting QB.

I think it would also be foolish to deny that to this point in his Bronco career he has not proven to be a clutch player when he needs to be.


Here's what I'm curious about from the Orton fans. Do you honestly see Orton as our starting QB for the next 8 to 10 years? If so, does that prospect excite you, and make you hopeful for the future of this franchise? I would like civil discussion about the issue and some actual opinions, not just post bashing with no real substance(RC).

The first part of your post is very subjective, Chaz, and not worth debate, IMO.

As for your question, I want to see how Kyle does this next year with a better
running game and defense. I want to see how that affects his performances
in 3rd down conversions and the red zone and what he has done to work on
those areas.

The rest of it, he has down in spades. It was John Elway who observed that
Kyle played at a "record-shattering, Pro Bowl level, and then there were those
rib injuries" -- Elway's words verbatim, IIRC.

So, yes, if Kyle can get his problem areas corrected -- and ONLY if -- I can
see him as our QB, and one who can win a championship. I may sit here alone
on this board with that assessment, but I am not alone in the football world.
Kyle is well thought of by others who played QB -- besides Elway, the likes of
Rich Gannon and Trent Green, to name a few.

Now, there is my answer. I really don't want to discuss it anymore.

-----

vandammage13
03-10-2011, 02:58 PM
And you can only act like a trite little man? Is that how to debate?

Want a variable maybe you can hold onto?
Imagine you being conceived 1second later.
what are the chances you end up in the same family....same city...same state....same country?

Hohum.....
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Interesting how his mother and father would be able to change families, city, state, and country in 1 second.

SR
03-10-2011, 02:59 PM
Two Christmases!

rcsodak
03-12-2011, 09:58 PM
Interesting how his mother and father would be able to change families, city, state, and country in 1 second.
lol. Wow....so you think you belonged to your mommy/daddy before you were conceived? How precious.
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jhns
03-14-2011, 10:41 AM
lol. Wow....so you think you belonged to your mommy/daddy before you were conceived? How precious.
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What are you even claiming? To be me, I would have to come from my parents. That is how genetics work. You cant come from someone else. There arent just random soles flying around waiting to jump into babies...

SR
03-14-2011, 10:42 AM
What are you even claiming? To be me, I would have to come from my parents. That is how genetics work. You cant come from someone else. There arent just random soles flying around waiting to jump into babies...

Wait. So you mean to tell me...

rcsodak
03-14-2011, 10:54 AM
What are you even claiming? To be me, I would have to come from my parents. That is how genetics work. You cant come from someone else. There arent just random soles flying around waiting to jump into babies...
Really?
Proof?
Or are you just gonna chase me around the forum and attack every post I make, like the good ol days on BM?
:coffee:
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Zweems56
03-14-2011, 10:54 AM
And you can only act like a trite little man? Is that how to debate?

Want a variable maybe you can hold onto?
Imagine you being conceived 1second later.
what are the chances you end up in the same family....same city...same state....same country?

Hohum.....
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I dont really post much anymore, but I just came here to say... Seriously? I won't have a better laugh today. If daddy lasted just a second longer, I might have been an african american NFL player born and raised in Florida. DAMN IT DAD!

SR
03-14-2011, 10:55 AM
You shoud post more.

rcsodak
03-14-2011, 10:57 AM
Wait. So you mean to tell me...
Well, to continue on, I'd be venturing into religion, so.......
(Wrong forum)
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Zweems56
03-14-2011, 10:58 AM
You shoud post more.

Only if you can promise that next time my soul gets caught, I get to do something sweet for a living.

SR
03-14-2011, 10:59 AM
Only if you can promise that next time my soul gets caught, I get to do something sweet for a living.

Wanna trade places with me? I can run engines on airplanes.

Zweems56
03-14-2011, 10:59 AM
Well, to continue on, I'd be venturing into religion, so.......
(Wrong forum)
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No, please do. My morning consisted of wanting to fight some chick named Tiara on tech support. I'm looking forward to a hilarious lunch break.

rcsodak
03-14-2011, 10:59 AM
You shoud post more.
Agreed.
I also have quite a sense of humor.
:coffee:
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SR
03-14-2011, 10:59 AM
Well, to continue on, I'd be venturing into religion, so.......
(Wrong forum)
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What's religion?

Zweems56
03-14-2011, 11:00 AM
Wanna trade places with me? I can run engines on airplanes.

I can type moderately fast and procrastinate. Sounds like you got the sweeter body when your soul got snatched. Also, when your soul gets snatched, what snatches it? Your mother's soul, or your mother's ovaries?

Zweems56
03-14-2011, 11:01 AM
Agreed.
I also have quite a sense of humor.
:coffee:
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Clearly. That soul snatching stuff is golden. Question: When my girlfriend and I decide that we want to procreate, should I focus my energy on attracting a sweet soul, or should I just let God do his work?

SR
03-14-2011, 11:02 AM
I can type moderately fast and procrastinate. Sounds like you got the sweeter body when your soul got snatched. Also, when your soul gets snatched, what snatches it? Your mother's soul, or your mother's ovaries?

I type pretty well also, but I'm not great with the whole procrastination thing. That's something I've always wanted to be able to do.

And I'm not sure what snatches it. Maybe it's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers?

rcsodak
03-14-2011, 11:03 AM
What's religion?
Exactly.

...nuff said.

Glad I was able to take your minds off of the lockout.

Carry on my wayward son(s)....
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Zweems56
03-14-2011, 11:03 AM
I type pretty well also, but I'm not great with the whole procrastination thing. That's something I've always wanted to be able to do.

And I'm not sure what snatches it. Maybe it's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers?

I will now forever associate this image with procreation.
http://www.dangerousminds.net/images/uploads/Sutherland_Invasion.jpg

SR
03-14-2011, 11:04 AM
Exactly.

...nuff said.

Glad I was able to take your minds off of the lockout.

Carry on my wayward son(s)....
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I don't think you really took my mind off of the lockout because, in all actuality, that's pretty much all I can think about. It's consuming my very existence. Dammit.

Do you get offended when people say "goddammit"?

Zweems56
03-14-2011, 11:05 AM
I don't think you really took my mind off of the lockout because, in all actuality, that's pretty much all I can think about. It's consuming my very existence. Dammit.

Do you get offended when people say "goddammit"?

Only if you do it properly. God damn it.

SR
03-14-2011, 11:05 AM
I will now forever associate this image with procreation.
http://www.dangerousminds.net/images/uploads/Sutherland_Invasion.jpg

I'm at work and can't see the picture, unfortunately, because the gubmint computer won't let me.

SR
03-14-2011, 11:05 AM
Only if you do it properly. God damn it.

So it's okay if I just make it in to one word?

SR
03-14-2011, 11:06 AM
This is getting out of hand. Vikings & Orton. Go.

Zweems56
03-14-2011, 11:08 AM
So it's okay if I just make it in to one word?
Of course.


I'm at work and can't see the picture, unfortunately, because the gubmint computer won't let me.

It's the infamous Donald Sutherland-pointing-with-mouth-open-picture from invasion of the body snatchers. But, on a related note, if you had my soul, you would be able to see the picture at work.

SR
03-14-2011, 11:11 AM
Of course.



It's the infamous Donald Sutherland-pointing-with-mouth-open-picture from invasion of the body snatchers. But, on a related note, if you had my soul, you would be able to see the picture at work.

Ah ok. I know that shot. If that's what you're gonna think about while procreating, that's gonna suck for the ol lady.

jhns
03-14-2011, 11:15 AM
Really?
Proof?
Or are you just gonna chase me around the forum and attack every post I make, like the good ol days on BM?
:coffee:
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You presented that scenerio to me... I didn't just jump into a random conversation.

My proof is, I have traits and personality that are identical to my parents. This, again, is how DNA works.

Zweems56
03-14-2011, 11:48 AM
You presented that scenerio to me... I didn't just jump into a random conversation.

My proof is, I have traits and personality that are identical to my parents. This, again, is how DNA works.

Meh. I think your parents are just lucky, and they snatched a soul that was very much like them. Somehow I came out looking half asian, and neither of my parents are asian. (insert obligatory mailman joke.)

SR
03-14-2011, 12:47 PM
I was gonna say the milk man.

topscribe
03-14-2011, 02:54 PM
I don't think you really took my mind off of the lockout because, in all actuality, that's pretty much all I can think about. It's consuming my very existence. Dammit.

Do you get offended when people say "goddammit"?

I get very offended. But I object only if someone is directly addressing me. And
I do it by MHS or PM, not publicly. But that's just me. I'm not saying what
anyone else should do . . .

-----

topscribe
03-14-2011, 02:54 PM
This is getting out of hand. Vikings & Orton. Go.

:2thumbs:

-----

SR
03-14-2011, 04:21 PM
I get very offended. But I object only if someone is directly addressing me. And
I do it by MHS or PM, not publicly. But that's just me. I'm not saying what
anyone else should do . . .

-----

I understand. Just a question.