Q&A: Don't be surprised if the Broncos draft LSU cornerback Patrick Petersonroncos draft LSU cornerback Patrick Peterson

[TXBRONC]

Q&A: Don't be surprised if the Broncos draft LSU cornerback Patrick Peterson
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 03/01/2011 01:00:00 AM MST


Q: Will the Broncos draft LSU cornerback Patrick Peterson even though they re-signed Champ Bailey? Champ probably will be moved to safety or play a nickel back position before his new contract expires, so Peterson could be the next great cornerback in Denver.

A: If the Panthers, who have the No. 1 pick in the April 28-30 draft, or the Broncos (No. 2) select Peterson, it would make draft history. No cornerback has ever been selected No. 1 or No. 2 in the draft's modern era. Shawn Springs was selected by the Seahawks at No. 3 in 1997. Bruce Pickens was selected by the Falcons at No. 3 in 1991.

It's possible but IMHO it's very very unlikely.

[SOCALORADO.]

It's possible but IMHO it's very very unlikely.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/6/66307/1292452-mutant_facepalm_super.jpg

[TXBRONC]

Fox's draft history suggests that he'll want go with the boys upfront. Fox doesn't have final say I bet that Elway and Xanders will defer to him in this case.

[Ravage!!!]

Fox's draft history suggests that he'll want go with the boys upfront. Fox doesn't have final say I bet that Elway and Xanders will defer to him in this case.

I don't think there is a way in hell we draft a CB with the #2 overall pick, especially with the resigning of Champ (and I don't think it would have happened otherwise).

[TXBRONC]

I don't think there is a way in hell we draft a CB with the #2 overall pick, especially with the resigning of Champ (and I don't think it would have happened otherwise).

I would be more inclined to believe that Peterson is in play if Champ hadn't of been re-signed.

[topscribe]

With the depth of talent in the D-line in the draft this year, I wouldn't doubt
that they would take Peterson. And I'm not so sure I'm against it . . .

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[Denver Native (Carol)]

INDIANAPOLIS — Defensive end Da'Quan Bowers has merited consideration because the Broncos need a pass rusher.

Nick Fairley and Marcell Dareus also have been connected with the No. 2 overall draft pick because the Broncos need a new defensive tackle or two as new coach John Fox switches from the 3-4 to 4-3 alignment.

But there is another element to the defensive front seven that gets rare mention among the numerous 2011 mock drafts with the No. 2 pick: linebacker.

On his way out the Dove Valley doors last season, Don "Wink" Martindale, the Broncos' defensive coordinator in 2010, said the most difficult personnel adjustment in switching to the 4-3 is acquiring speed at linebacker.

This is why the Broncos are considering Texas A&M linebacker Von Miller, especially if the team can trade back a couple spots in return for an extra draft pick.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17498455?source=rss

Local Denver sportscasters are also talking about Miller, and showing footage on him from the Combine.

[Shananahan]

I would hate, hate, hate, hate, hate it if we drafted him at #2. I like him as a player and everything, but I don't want to be drafting a light, fast linebacker whose forte doesn't even really come into play within our scheme that high. If you're drafting that high, it should be an athletic, run-stuffing beast with a knack for blitzing rather than a pure pass rusher.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Texas A&M linebacker Von Miller came out and did exactly what was expected of him on Monday at the NFL Combine, flashing impressive physical skills and supreme athleticism. Miller has continued to impress since the season ended, putting together a standout performance at the Senior Bowl and breezing through the workouts at the combine, pushing his draft stock higher and higher. Almost assuredly a top-10 pick, Miller may slide into the top-five after his solid, if not spectacular workouts.

Miller was in a class of his own on Monday, running the second-fastest 40 time and fastest three cone drill time. When it came to measuring explosiveness, Miller was at the top of the class again with the farthest broad jump and one of the highest vertical jump in the linebacker class.

full article - http://seattle.sbnation.com/seattle-seahawks/2011/3/1/2022861/2011-nfl-combine-results-von-miller-linebacker-broad-jump-vertical-jump

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Today's question about the Broncos comes from Ian Nicol of Fort Collins.

Q: Would the Broncos consider drafting Texas A&M's Von Miller and moving him inside? I don't think Mario Haggan or Joe Mays is a long-term middle linebacker in a 4-3 defense.

A: The Broncos should consider making Miller the No. 2 pick of the NFL's April 28-30 draft.

Miller was a star pass rusher for the Aggies who led the nation in sacks two years ago. That will be his biggest value to an NFL defense and the biggest reason he is expected to be a top-five player on the draft boards of most teams.

If you're building an NFL team, you start with a quarterback, a left tackle on offense and an edge pass rusher. That's how important pass rushers are in today's NFL.

"I'd say that's true," said John Elway, the Broncos' executive vice president of football operations. "A quarterback, far and away, is the most important. (Then) a left tackle and then a pass rusher, maybe a top corner, tied with pass rusher."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17491410

[SOCALORADO.]

I would hate, hate, hate, hate, hate it if we drafted him at #2. I like him as a player and everything, but I don't want to be drafting a light, fast linebacker whose forte doesn't even really come into play within our scheme that high. If you're drafting that high, it should be an athletic, run-stuffing beast with a knack for blitzing rather than a pure pass rusher.

Not bad for 12 posts. I hate to say it, but i agree. I like the kid. How can you not?
But he seems to be strictly a "Joker" LB in a 3-4 as of now, eventually he could be a good player in a 4-3, but he will need some serious coaching and at #2, DEN needs an impact player that can come in and PLAY NOW!
RIGHT NOW. Just walk into camp, and own the position.
Again, its not that i dont like Von, but with Doom back, (hopefully) I dont see how this guy really plays into the teams make up right now. 4-3 DE would be really hard for him. 4-3 LB even harder. I think with time he could eventually be a good LB though.



Strengths:
An elite pass rusher used in multiple roles at Texas A&M. Has experience lining up at defensive end and linebacker. Impressive athlete. Excellent quickness off the snap. Has the speed to make plays in pursuit. Reliable wrap-up tackler who can also deliver a big hit.
Weaknesses:
A ‘tweener that doesn’t have a true position. Too small for defensive end and possibly too small for 3-4 linebacker as well. Very limited experience in coverage; basically just asked to pin his ears back and get after the quarterback. Lacks the strength to consistently shed blocks; once he’s locked up, he’s usually done.
Comments:
Miller played the “joker” position at A&M, which is basically a hybrid end/linebacker who is asked to go after the quarterback on nearly every play. As a result, he doesn’t really have any experience at a full-time position in the NFL. His skill set is best suited for a 3-4 outside linebacker, but there are legitimate concerns about his size and strength. In the long term he may actually be a better fit in a 4-3 system, but he’ll need some time to develop the skills necessary to excel in that role. He has the raw talent of a 1st-round pick, but he’s more of a developmental prospect than your typical 1st-rounder.
http://draftace.com/blog/2011/02/21/von-miller-scouting-report/

Ive also noted that so far this year posters have been pretty obvious in their discussions on players DEN should target. Every year theres a guy that is intriguing as a player though, and i think this year its Von.
I think its pretty unanimous that fans in general think that 4-3 DT or DE is the pick at #2, and messing around with a pick that high on a tweener who, while very talented, just is a bit too much to chance with all the other slam dunk, solid talent that is there.

[MileHighCrew]

It would be an interesting choice. If that happens I would have to hold myself back for how I would react until the end of the draft.

[hotcarl]

great thread :rolleyes:

[dogfish]

no offense TX, but i'm tempted to pull a broncos freak and post a giant turd. . . first thing that comes to mind. . .

[Shananahan]

Exactly. Don't get cute with the pick, just draft Dareus and be done with it knowing you drafted a hell of a player who fills a need and can play in multiple schemes.

[slim]

no offense TX, but i'm tempted to pull a broncos freak and post a giant turd. . . first thing that comes to mind. . .

This is called a "tubby".

[rcsodak]

Shawn springs=wasted #3 pick
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[slim]

Good idea. Let's list all the wasted picks in draft history.

Willie Middlebrooks.

[slim]

Ryan Leaf.

[slim]

Ki-jana Carter

[topscribe]

This is called a "tubby".

And if you don't like it, you can just go do a :yardog:

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[slim]

And if you don't like it, you can just go do a :yardog:

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Tim Couch.

[topscribe]

Tim Couch.

Talk about myopia . . .

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[BroncoWave]

Rashan Salaam

[topscribe]

full article - http://seattle.sbnation.com/seattle-seahawks/2011/3/1/2022861/2011-nfl-combine-results-von-miller-linebacker-broad-jump-vertical-jump

Dude is not only fast, but he weighs 246 lbs. And he is a team guy, and nothing
but a team guy. Looks like MLB material to me. If it looks as if he could fit in at
MLB, then, in view of the depth available in the O-line and the two upcoming
2nd rounders, I reach for him.

Even if Miller does not work out at MLB, DJ can play it . . . for a daunting combo
of DJ and Miller at LB, either way -- speed galore.

I'm not sure the Broncos would ever regret that selection . . .

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[dogfish]

jarvis ****ing moss!



[/topic]

[NightTerror218]

Dude is not only fast, but he weighs 246 lbs. And he is a team guy, and nothing
but a team guy. Looks like MLB material to me. If it looks as if he could fit in at
MLB, then, in view of the depth available in the O-line and the two upcoming
2nd rounders, I reach for him.

Even if Miller does not work out at MLB, DJ can play it . . . for a daunting combo
of DJ and Miller at LB, either way -- speed galore.

I'm not sure the Broncos would ever regret that selection . . .

-----


He is an OLB and drafting a guy to play a different position is not the best way to draft. There are some people who can convert but this guy is an amazing 3-4 OLB. We need the DL more then LB.

[dogfish]

He is an OLB and drafting a guy to play a different position is not the best way to draft. There are some people who can convert but this guy is an amazing 3-4 OLB. We need the DL more then LB.

yea, let's not draft a blue chip edge rusher and then not have him rush the quarterback-- not exactly optimizing his talent OR the value of our pick. . .

[TXBRONC]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17491410

Thanks for hijacking the thread with Von Miller Carol. :tsk:

J/K :D

[TXBRONC]

no offense TX, but i'm tempted to pull a broncos freak and post a giant turd. . . first thing that comes to mind. . .

I'm not in favor of drafting Peterson and I really don't think Elway, Xanders, and Fox will go in that direction.

[topscribe]

no offense TX, but i'm tempted to pull a broncos freak and post a giant turd. . . first thing that comes to mind. . .


Would that be aimed at me or the topic?

Hmmm . . . I wasn't aware that had anything to do with you.

I thought he was talking about posting Clay . . .

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[TXBRONC]

Hmmm . . . I wasn't aware that had anything to do with you.

I thought he was talking about posting Clay . . .

-----

Clay hasn't posted in this thread and I have changed the post of mine that you quoted.

[topscribe]

Clay hasn't posted in this thread and I have changed the post of mine that you quoted.

I was kidding Clay with that, TX. That would have been obvious to him . . .

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[Denver Native (Carol)]

Thanks for hijacking the thread with Von Miller Carol. :tsk:

J/K :D

After I started the new thread on Von Miller, I noticed that you had already started a thread on him, in regards to this on the denver post.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17491410

So, I reported my thread and ask for it to be moved under the thread you started on Von Miller, and I now don't see the thread you started on Von Miller, so I am VERY :confused:

[TXBRONC]

After I started the new thread on Von Miller, I noticed that you had already started a thread on him, in regards to this on the denver post.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17491410

So, I reported my thread and ask for it to be moved under the thread you started on Von Miller, and I now don't see the thread you started on Von Miller, so I am VERY :confused:

:whoknows:

Btw I was just kidding about hijacking the thread.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

:whoknows:

Btw I was just kidding about hijacking the thread.

I know you were kidding, but Von Miller topic really does not go along with the Peterson thread you started - anyhow, as I said - I am confused.

[JDL]

Fox's draft history suggests that he'll want go with the boys upfront. Fox doesn't have final say I bet that Elway and Xanders will defer to him in this case.

Not sure why this keeps being said, we don't really know Fox's thoughts on all of that because he actually didn't have a lot of say in personnel decisions. It is one of the reasons he was a good fit here in the three way, because he wasn't used to having that kind of power and wouldn't command it, in fact what probably made this job more appealing to him is that his experience would be valued and he'd probably have a much bigger role in personnel than he had in Carolina.

Both our head coach and DC are former secondary coaches, Fox is renowned for still taking a heavy role with DBs as he loves that area, (a big selling point to getting Champ back I'm sure), so I wouldn't make some assumption that he wouldn't. People on this forum seem to want only to take a DL - we could take a 2nd rd DL, late 1st rd DL like Paea #2 overall and they would be happier than taking Peterson, which is just ridiculous when you consider how prevalent elite DBs have been on Super Bowl winning defenses (even a team like Indianapolis could only win one with former DPOY of the Bob Sanders when he was healthy for a playoff run in 2006) Polamalu, C Woodson (who Peterson best compares to), R Woodson, J. Lynch, R Lott, S. Atwater and many more recent and past.

Just silly talk going on around here... we should be worried about taking the best player available to help the defense... I'll be happy with Dareus, Peterson or Miller ... Fairley is a good prospect but a head case, the Bowers talk is getting ridiculous, he is slow and weak and a 1 yr wonder... I would support him no doubt in hopes he could turn out, but he isn't nearly the prospect of those other guys.

Just saying.... an open mind ISN'T a bad thing.

[cuzz4169]

I think Peterson is by far the best defensive player in the draft...This kid is 6’0″ and 219lbs and his 40time showed he has wheels. He has long arms and is athletic as hell...this kid is going to be an all-pro player no doubt about it very soon.

If we take him no big deal, the D-line is deep we get a couple in the second round. I think Peterson is a sure thing. He starts right away...and takes pressure off Royal on returns.

[Northman]

Denver needs a "quality" Dlineman more than a guy like Peterson. Its not about open minds, its about common sense. JDL wants to pump up this idea that guys like Woodson and Polamalucules going to SB's well, look at what they have at the DLine and LB core. Denver doesnt have that and history has shown with this team over a decade now that building back to front does not work. Champ Bailey has been here a very long time and we've been to the AFCCG ONCE, to the playoffs just THREE times. Its time to quit dicking around and start focusing on the real area of need and taking second rate guys like we have been later in the draft isnt going to cut it anymore.

[SOCALORADO.]

Denver needs a "quality" Dlineman more than a guy like Peterson. Its not about open minds, its about common sense. JDL wants to pump up this idea that guys like Woodson and Polamalucules going to SB's well, look at what they have at the DLine and LB core. Denver doesnt have that and history has shown with this team over a decade now that building back to front does not work. Champ Bailey has been here a very long time and we've been to the AFCCG ONCE, to the playoffs just THREE times. Its time to quit dicking around and start focusing on the real area of need and taking second rate guys like we have been later in the draft isnt going to cut it anymore.

Exactly. I think Elway knows this too.
This whole notion of taking a guy like Peterson 1st, cause DEN could get good value at DL later could just as well be turned around to say DEN could get a CB later cause alot of them looked really good.
But in reality the CBs looked no where near as good as the dominating preformances by the DTs and DEs in this combine.
Mayock said the guy who looked the most dominating was Dareus.
Even over Fairley, who was almost equally dominating.
And who thinks DEN needs just one DT or DE?!?!?
Thats laughable! DEN sucks, and needs multiple DTs or DEs for this line.
Bringing in a guy to get burned all day at CB, isnt gonna change the glaring problem that is the D-Line.
But Peterson sure will look cool in warm-ups before he gets lit up all game!

[TXBRONC]

Denver needs a "quality" Dlineman more than a guy like Peterson. Its not about open minds, its about common sense. JDL wants to pump up this idea that guys like Woodson and Polamalucules going to SB's well, look at what they have at the DLine and LB core. Denver doesnt have that and history has shown with this team over a decade now that building back to front does not work. Champ Bailey has been here a very long time and we've been to the AFCCG ONCE, to the playoffs just THREE times. Its time to quit dicking around and start focusing on the real area of need and taking second rate guys like we have been later in the draft isnt going to cut it anymore.

Bingo, people that cite Woodson and Polamalu as reason for drafting Peterson are over looking the most important fact that the front seven of those teams are already freak ass set. I also don't buy the argument that this draft is so deep with defensive linemen that we can draft Peterson and get a defensive lineman latter. The very best prospects are generally at the very top of draft, not the middle of the first, the bottom of the first or anywhere else. The very best are top where Denver is right now. I don't to be rude or baiting but the reasoning taking Peterson just doesn't seem sound to me.

Last year we heard how Berry is a once in a life time pick for a defensive back now we get the same damn line about Peterson and next year it will be some other defensive back. (NB: SA is not meant as a slight against Berry it's just that this line seems to becoming up regularly about defensive backs around draft time.)

[SOCALORADO.]

Bingo, people that cite Woodson and Polamalu as reason for drafting Peterson are over looking the most important fact that the front seven of those teams are already freak ass set. I also don't buy the argument that this draft is so deep with defensive linemen that we can draft Peterson and get a defensive lineman latter. The very best prospects are generally at the very top of draft, not the middle of the first, the bottom of the first or anywhere else. The very best are top where Denver is right now. I don't to be rude or baiting but the reasoning taking Peterson just doesn't seem sound to me.

Last year we heard how Berry is a once in a life time pick for a defensive back now we get the same damn line about Peterson and next year it will be some other defensive back. (NB: SA is not meant as a slight against Berry it's just that this line seems to becoming up regularly about defensive backs around draft time.)

Leave the rude, baiting to me and North.

[TXBRONC]

Leave the rude, baiting to me and North.

Works for me. :D

[cuzz4169]

No one is saying that we don't need front line help..and you guys make it sound like if we get it this yr we will make the playoffs. So you would rather take a quality dlineman than an all pro cb? We still have free agency also to add a piece or two. Im all for taking the best defensive player period. So peterson wouldn't make the broncos better right away? If you think that he wouldn't ur nuts. Plus he add special ability to kick return game. Best defensive player available and to me its not even close peterson by a mile.

[GEM]

After I started the new thread on Von Miller, I noticed that you had already started a thread on him, in regards to this on the denver post.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17491410

So, I reported my thread and ask for it to be moved under the thread you started on Von Miller, and I now don't see the thread you started on Von Miller, so I am VERY :confused:

I moved it to the thread that you quoted. I don't know if you reported it with the wrong thread address or what, but they were the 2 that you had reported. :confused:

[SOCALORADO.]

No one is saying that we don't need front line help..and you guys make it sound like if we get it this yr we will make the playoffs. So you would rather take a quality dlineman than an all pro cb? We still have free agency also to add a piece or two. Im all for taking the best defensive player period. So peterson wouldn't make the broncos better right away? If you think that he wouldn't ur nuts. Plus he add special ability to kick return game. Best defensive player available and to me its not even close peterson by a mile.

DEN already has an all-pro CB. 10 years to the Pro Bowl.
Just signed a shiny, brand spankin new contract.
And with arguably the best CB ever, DEN has been to the play-offs how many times? How many in his tenure here in DEN?
So whats next? The terms "ballhawk" and "hes soooo sick" or "dude could chase down a gazelle" going to be thrown around about Peterson?
"Hes a cheetah!" Same thing was said about LaRon Landry. And now hes on IR, and has never lived up to his billing.

Petersons not the BPA in this draft, and every analyst and expert including Mayock at the combine stated that DAREUS was by far the best player there.
Go watch him state that. I did yesterday. But nevermind that. If you think DEN just needs one half way decent player up front, your as dilusional as your statement. The deepest positions in this draft in terms of quality and true starting calibur talent is 4-3 DT and DE. Not one analyst or expert disagrees. And the very best of these players are at the top of the draft.
All good, playoff calibur teams are built in the trenches, then, and ONLY THEN can a team build its secondary. And why? Because its secondary in terms of importance. Or havent you been watching the mess that is the DEN defense?

[arapaho2]

No one is saying that we don't need front line help..and you guys make it sound like if we get it this yr we will make the playoffs. So you would rather take a quality dlineman than an all pro cb? We still have free agency also to add a piece or two. Im all for taking the best defensive player period. So peterson wouldn't make the broncos better right away? If you think that he wouldn't ur nuts. Plus he add special ability to kick return game. Best defensive player available and to me its not even close peterson by a mile.


champs played at a probowl level...a HOF cb level....has his presence helped the defense?...

heres a reality check for those wanting peterson over someone like dareus, fairely
guess these stats

2010....25th....32nd
2009....3rd.......10th
2008....26th......26th

see it ?...its the passing defenses rankings followed by qb sacks.....no pressure = little sacks....little sacks = bad passing defense even with a HOF CB

[TXBRONC]

No one is saying that we don't need front line help..and you guys make it sound like if we get it this yr we will make the playoffs. So you would rather take a quality dlineman than an all pro cb? We still have free agency also to add a piece or two. Im all for taking the best defensive player period. So peterson wouldn't make the broncos better right away? If you think that he wouldn't ur nuts. Plus he add special ability to kick return game. Best defensive player available and to me its not even close peterson by a mile.

No one has said that nor even allude to us going to the playoffs if draft a defensive lineman. Peterson hasn't even been draft and you're calling him an all pro corner back? That's taking it way to far. He actually play before he has chance to be named all pro.

You think it's nuts say that Peterson wouldn't help immediate, I think it's to say it's an absolute. You're entitled to your opinion about Peterson being the best player on the board. I don't by a long shot. If he is the best maybe the Panthers should take him.

His ability to return kicks is wasted, because I can name four or five players on this team right now that are more capable of return punts and kicks.

[cuzz4169]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=combinereport0301

If you're a top NFL prospect and decide to work out at the combine, you want to put on the kind of performance CBs Prince Amukamara and Patrick Peterson did Tuesday. Amukamara and Peterson were the most complete athletes in the building and were simply on a different level than all other prospects.

Both checked in at 6 feet, and the only significant difference is that Peterson was 13 pounds heavier (219 to 206). Both had a 38-inch vertical jump; Amukamara posted a 10-foot-8 broad jump compared to 10-6 for Peterson, and Peterson's 40-yard dash (4.34 seconds) was slightly ahead of Amukamara's (4.39).

They came to Indianapolis with Peterson atop the cornerback class and Amukamara just behind him, and they leave having cemented their status even further.

Peterson's elite combination of size and athleticism, along with his ability in the return game, will make teams picking in the top five think hard about him, and while we don't expect him to be the No. 1 overall pick, Peterson is worth any pick from No. 2 on. Should he get past No. 3 it then becomes a matter of which team might pass on a need in order to take the best player on the board at that point.
__________________________________________________ ________________________
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=combinereport228

Marcell Dareus, Alabama: The combine could not have gone much better for Dareus, who looked good while weighing in at 6-foot-3 and 319 pounds and then ran a 4.94-second 40 (unofficial) with a 1.69 10-yard split, very impressive times for his size. He also looked strong and powerful during position-specific drills.

Nick Fairley, Auburn: He checked in smaller (6-3⅞, 291) than Dareus and was slightly better in the 40 with an unofficial 4.87, though his 10-yard split (1.76) was behind that of Dareus. However, Fairley did post a 31-inch vertical jump and showed good movement during position drills.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
“He is a great athlete and not only as a [defensive] player, but as a returner. He is special as a returner. He is a guy that can do a lot of different things for you. Athletically, he is as good as anybody in the draft. He can run and he has good size for a corner -- he is 205, 210 pounds. He has good size and is a guy that can make some big plays. I think especially at the cornerback position, you like those guys that can make those plays, because those are game-changers.” -- Broncos vice president John Elway

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/24799/heres-looking-at-no-2_________________________________________________ ______________________

[silkamilkamonico]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=combinereport0301

If you're a top NFL prospect and decide to work out at the combine, you want to put on the kind of performance CBs Prince Amukamara and Patrick Peterson did Tuesday. Amukamara and Peterson were the most complete athletes in the building and were simply on a different level than all other prospects.

Both checked in at 6 feet, and the only significant difference is that Peterson was 13 pounds heavier (219 to 206). Both had a 38-inch vertical jump; Amukamara posted a 10-foot-8 broad jump compared to 10-6 for Peterson, and Peterson's 40-yard dash (4.34 seconds) was slightly ahead of Amukamara's (4.39).

They came to Indianapolis with Peterson atop the cornerback class and Amukamara just behind him, and they leave having cemented their status even further.

Peterson's elite combination of size and athleticism, along with his ability in the return game, will make teams picking in the top five think hard about him, and while we don't expect him to be the No. 1 overall pick, Peterson is worth any pick from No. 2 on. Should he get past No. 3 it then becomes a matter of which team might pass on a need in order to take the best player on the board at that point.
__________________________________________________ ________________________
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=combinereport228

Marcell Dareus, Alabama: The combine could not have gone much better for Dareus, who looked good while weighing in at 6-foot-3 and 319 pounds and then ran a 4.94-second 40 (unofficial) with a 1.69 10-yard split, very impressive times for his size. He also looked strong and powerful during position-specific drills.

Nick Fairley, Auburn: He checked in smaller (6-3⅞, 291) than Dareus and was slightly better in the 40 with an unofficial 4.87, though his 10-yard split (1.76) was behind that of Dareus. However, Fairley did post a 31-inch vertical jump and showed good movement during position drills.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
“He is a great athlete and not only as a [defensive] player, but as a returner. He is special as a returner. He is a guy that can do a lot of different things for you. Athletically, he is as good as anybody in the draft. He can run and he has good size for a corner -- he is 205, 210 pounds. He has good size and is a guy that can make some big plays. I think especially at the cornerback position, you like those guys that can make those plays, because those are game-changers.” -- Broncos vice president John Elway

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/24799/heres-looking-at-no-2_________________________________________________ ______________________


I wonder if Elway thinks Champ Bailey is a game changer? He plays CB and can make some plays.

He has certainly changed our defense while being a part of 3 of arguably the organization's worst defenses in the history of its existence.

Front 7 please.

[dogfish]

dude, did you actually just post todd mcshay's opinion?


tom jackson says "come on, man!"

:rofl:

[rcsodak]

The team has said they want to be an aggressive, DISRUPTIVE defense.
Does that get addressed by picking a db first?
I'd say look at quotes and see who they're unintentionally letting slip from their lips.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[arapaho2]

The team has said they want to be an aggressive, DISRUPTIVE defense.
Does that get addressed by picking a db first?
I'd say look at quotes and see who they're unintentionally letting slip from their lips.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums


i agree but unless they are playing a game to trade down ...i dont see the rational of dropping misdirection hints when we have the second pick

[cuzz4169]

We can say what we want about our talent on the d-line. but before Mcdouche started messing with the Defensive schemes we were top 5 with the same players. How about we put together a good defensive coaching staff and a game plan...which I think we got now. I agree with fox when he say's this defense isn't that far away..Fox has already said are DE position is about set. you remove one of the best pass rushers in the game from your line up it effects everyone on the defense. Not one of these D-lineman are Suh or as close to as good as him. This draft reminds me of the 2006 nfl draft with the d-line a lot of good players but nothing great.

If they did the 1999 draft over again would 6 players go in front of Champ? Even if it wasn't a team need would you have taken Champ?

But again my opinion is my opinion. I think Peterson is best Defensive player hands down.
Who said we have a returner already...hahaha who!? when has he done anything? Royal haha his one game wonder return...come on get real.

Yes we have had champ and our defense has been lost...but who has he had on the other side to help him?
Front 7 doesnt just win its team defense you can have the best front 7 and no pass defense...well you lose....you can have the best secondary and no front...well you lose...I believe Peterson is a bigger upgrade for us at his position than one of these DT's would be.

I'm a gators fan so I have watched Marcell Dareus and he just never stood out to me. Not saying he's bad but was never a guy where I would think oh god I hope they block him. McClain did do that. Berry did do that.

[TXBRONC]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=combinereport0301

If you're a top NFL prospect and decide to work out at the combine, you want to put on the kind of performance CBs Prince Amukamara and Patrick Peterson did Tuesday. Amukamara and Peterson were the most complete athletes in the building and were simply on a different level than all other prospects.

Both checked in at 6 feet, and the only significant difference is that Peterson was 13 pounds heavier (219 to 206). Both had a 38-inch vertical jump; Amukamara posted a 10-foot-8 broad jump compared to 10-6 for Peterson, and Peterson's 40-yard dash (4.34 seconds) was slightly ahead of Amukamara's (4.39).

They came to Indianapolis with Peterson atop the cornerback class and Amukamara just behind him, and they leave having cemented their status even further.

Peterson's elite combination of size and athleticism, along with his ability in the return game, will make teams picking in the top five think hard about him, and while we don't expect him to be the No. 1 overall pick, Peterson is worth any pick from No. 2 on. Should he get past No. 3 it then becomes a matter of which team might pass on a need in order to take the best player on the board at that point.
__________________________________________________ ________________________
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=combinereport228

Marcell Dareus, Alabama: The combine could not have gone much better for Dareus, who looked good while weighing in at 6-foot-3 and 319 pounds and then ran a 4.94-second 40 (unofficial) with a 1.69 10-yard split, very impressive times for his size. He also looked strong and powerful during position-specific drills.

Nick Fairley, Auburn: He checked in smaller (6-3⅞, 291) than Dareus and was slightly better in the 40 with an unofficial 4.87, though his 10-yard split (1.76) was behind that of Dareus. However, Fairley did post a 31-inch vertical jump and showed good movement during position drills.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
“He is a great athlete and not only as a [defensive] player, but as a returner. He is special as a returner. He is a guy that can do a lot of different things for you. Athletically, he is as good as anybody in the draft. He can run and he has good size for a corner -- he is 205, 210 pounds. He has good size and is a guy that can make some big plays. I think especially at the cornerback position, you like those guys that can make those plays, because those are game-changers.” -- Broncos vice president John Elway

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/24799/heres-looking-at-no-2_________________________________________________ ______________________

It doesn't change my mind about who we should. I have already seen what happens when a cornerback who was in his prime and arguably the best at his position doesn't have help in the front seven. Dareus, Fairley, Quinn, and Miller are the guys I would take without batting an eye.

[cuzz4169]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Scouting-combine-Tuesday-winners-and-losers?urn=nfl-328343

Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU -- The top guy in the Shutdown 40 series came to the combine with momentum based on the knowledge that most experts (and probably most teams) had him as the best player in the 2011 draft class. He bolstered his stock Tuesday after running a 4.34 40-yard dash (the second-fastest time among cornerbacks), tied for third in the shuttle and looked good in the agility drills. The one concern was that he came off the stance a bit high and wide on some drills, but a return to his game tape will confirm that Peterson is the one truly debit-free player in the class of 2011.

[cuzz4169]

Listen I'm really not saying we need to draft Peterson what I'm trying to say if Denver takes him its not the end of the Broncos like some think. I'm happy with any of these guys Dareus, Fairley, Miller & Peterson. Just say no to a DE!!! I think we are ok at DE. I'm not sure Bowers or Quinn will be any better than Ayers at DE. If we take Miller theres your pass rushing DE move Ayers down to DT in dime package.

I just think Peterson is best defensive player in draft.

By the way I think Greg McElroy will be the best Qb in this draft. I hated this guy at Alabama...he's a winner, he makes big time throws when needed, did I say I hated him. Not saying he's Tom Brady but he could be that late draft pick who turns out to be a special player. What did he do wrong at alabama?! God I hate him!!!

[topscribe]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=combinereport0301

If you're a top NFL prospect and decide to work out at the combine, you want to put on the kind of performance CBs Prince Amukamara and Patrick Peterson did Tuesday. Amukamara and Peterson were the most complete athletes in the building and were simply on a different level than all other prospects.

Both checked in at 6 feet, and the only significant difference is that Peterson was 13 pounds heavier (219 to 206). Both had a 38-inch vertical jump; Amukamara posted a 10-foot-8 broad jump compared to 10-6 for Peterson, and Peterson's 40-yard dash (4.34 seconds) was slightly ahead of Amukamara's (4.39).

They came to Indianapolis with Peterson atop the cornerback class and Amukamara just behind him, and they leave having cemented their status even further.

Peterson's elite combination of size and athleticism, along with his ability in the return game, will make teams picking in the top five think hard about him, and while we don't expect him to be the No. 1 overall pick, Peterson is worth any pick from No. 2 on. Should he get past No. 3 it then becomes a matter of which team might pass on a need in order to take the best player on the board at that point.
__________________________________________________ ________________________
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=combinereport228

Marcell Dareus, Alabama: The combine could not have gone much better for Dareus, who looked good while weighing in at 6-foot-3 and 319 pounds and then ran a 4.94-second 40 (unofficial) with a 1.69 10-yard split, very impressive times for his size. He also looked strong and powerful during position-specific drills.

Nick Fairley, Auburn: He checked in smaller (6-3⅞, 291) than Dareus and was slightly better in the 40 with an unofficial 4.87, though his 10-yard split (1.76) was behind that of Dareus. However, Fairley did post a 31-inch vertical jump and showed good movement during position drills.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
“He is a great athlete and not only as a [defensive] player, but as a returner. He is special as a returner. He is a guy that can do a lot of different things for you. Athletically, he is as good as anybody in the draft. He can run and he has good size for a corner -- he is 205, 210 pounds. He has good size and is a guy that can make some big plays. I think especially at the cornerback position, you like those guys that can make those plays, because those are game-changers.” -- Broncos vice president John Elway

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/24799/heres-looking-at-no-2_________________________________________________ ______________________


We can say what we want about our talent on the d-line. but before Mcdouche started messing with the Defensive schemes we were top 5 with the same players. How about we put together a good defensive coaching staff and a game plan...which I think we got now. I agree with fox when he say's this defense isn't that far away..Fox has already said are DE position is about set. you remove one of the best pass rushers in the game from your line up it effects everyone on the defense. Not one of these D-lineman are Suh or as close to as good as him. This draft reminds me of the 2006 nfl draft with the d-line a lot of good players but nothing great.

If they did the 1999 draft over again would 6 players go in front of Champ? Even if it wasn't a team need would you have taken Champ?

But again my opinion is my opinion. I think Peterson is best Defensive player hands down.
Who said we have a returner already...hahaha who!? when has he done anything? Royal haha his one game wonder return...come on get real.

Yes we have had champ and our defense has been lost...but who has he had on the other side to help him?
Front 7 doesnt just win its team defense you can have the best front 7 and no pass defense...well you lose....you can have the best secondary and no front...well you lose...I believe Peterson is a bigger upgrade for us at his position than one of these DT's would be.

I'm a gators fan so I have watched Marcell Dareus and he just never stood out to me. Not saying he's bad but was never a guy where I would think oh god I hope they block him. McClain did do that. Berry did do that.

For a long time, I was dead set against taking anything but D-line with the
#2 pick. However, since learning about the tremendous depth of D-line
players in the draft this year, and opinions that Peterson may be heads and
shoulders above all the rest, I am all for nabbing him at that spot, then using
the two second-rounders for D-line.

I can't think of anything that would strike fear into a QB more than Champ,
Peterson, and Goody back there covering receivers, especially if Doom and
Ayers can crank up their vaunted pass rush this year . . .

-----

[TXBRONC]

Listen I'm really not saying we need to draft Peterson what I'm trying to say if Denver takes him its not the end of the Broncos like some think. I'm happy with any of these guys Dareus, Fairley, Miller & Peterson.

I just think Peterson is best defensive player in draft.

I agree it's not the end of the world if Denver takes him. I just don't think it's the best move we could make.

[SOCALORADO.]

I wonder if Elway thinks Champ Bailey is a game changer? He plays CB and can make some plays.

He has certainly changed our defense while being a part of 3 of arguably the organization's worst defenses in the history of its existence.

Front 7 please.

Yeah, i love how some posters ignore the fact that Champ is currently on the Denver Broncos, as if adding yet another CB ( and a rookie, no less) to the fray will solve all the horrid problems on defense.
The secondary is more than adequate to win games. Its the front 7, specifically the front 4 that is the massive, horrible issue.
And so in a draft that just so happens to have incredible players that could play the front 4 in the DEN defense, and be immediate starters over any of the trash currently occupying those positions, DEN should go after a CB, when DEN already has 2 really good CBs. Not to mention the fact that Champ was just awarded a nice, new contract.
SO DEN spends more huge $$$ on another CB, that may or may not get playing time, and might not even beat out the PR/KR's that are currently on the team. And might get injured doing so, which would make him a useless and expensive waste.
Sounds like a Josh McDaniels draft! I'm in, lets do it!:lol:

[rcsodak]

What kind of pick could the team garner by offering both 2's? Enough to grab a good Dlineman? Peterson/DT enough value to think about it?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[cuzz4169]

Yeah, i love how some posters ignore the fact that Champ is currently on the Denver Broncos, as if adding yet another CB ( and a rookie, no less) to the fray will solve all the horrid problems on defense.
The secondary is more than adequate to win games. Its the front 7, specifically the front 4 that is the massive, horrible issue.
And so in a draft that just so happens to have incredible players that could play the front 4 in the DEN defense, and be immediate starters over any of the trash currently occupying those positions, DEN should go after a CB, when DEN already has 2 really good CBs. Not to mention the fact that Champ was just awarded a nice, new contract.
SO DEN spends more huge $$$ on another CB, that may or may not get playing time, and might not even beat out the PR/KR's that are currently on the team. And might get injured doing so, which would make him a useless and expensive waste.
Sounds like a Josh McDaniels draft! I'm in, lets do it!:lol:

What does it matter that champ is on the roster?! Darrell Green was on Washington's roster when they drafted champ. So if you had the #1 pick in 1999 and you had a CB at the end of his career you wouldn't have taken Champ? Plz posters stop saying front 7 you need team defense not just front 7. I think our front 4 will be good with Doom coming back (remember thats like a #1 pick also) And Ayers going to DE. We could use a DT but the draft is deep at DT.

Just got update not that it means a hell of a lot but Kipers new big board has Peterson as #1

[SOCALORADO.]

What does it matter that champ is on the roster?! Darrell Green was on Washington's roster when they drafted champ. So if you had the #1 pick in 1999 and you had a CB at the end of his career you wouldn't have taken Champ? Plz posters stop saying front 7 you need team defense not just front 7. I think our front 4 will be good with Doom coming back (remember thats like a #1 pick also) And Ayers going to DE. We could use a DT but the draft is deep at DT.

Just got update not that it means a hell of a lot but Kipers new big board has Peterson as #1

Did WASH have 2 solid CBs or just one?
How was DEN When Doom led the NFL in sacks?
The draft is also deep at CB. Not that DEN needs one.
The front 7 and more importantly, the front 4 is the problem on defense, not the secondary. There is no problem with the secondary. If there was, then DEN would not have just signed Champ to yet another big contract.
How was DEN when Doom was healthy and DEN played the 4-3?

Dude, seriously, dont put up Kiper quotes. Thats just plain bad.
Anyone else.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I think Peterson is by far the best defensive player in the draft...This kid is 6’0″ and 219lbs and his 40time showed he has wheels. He has long arms and is athletic as hell...this kid is going to be an all-pro player no doubt about it very soon.

If we take him no big deal, the D-line is deep we get a couple in the second round. I think Peterson is a sure thing. He starts right away...and takes pressure off Royal on returns.

I may be way off here, but once again, I just can't see the Broncos spending the #2 overall pick on Peterson and then letting him return punts and kicks. As the #2 overall pick, unless you are a QB, you are expected to START from day one. Not just start, but be a difference maker and compete for ROY and the probowl. So if we draft him, he'll be replacing either Champ or Goodman FROM DAY 1 at CB. Putting him at Safety isn't acceptable for the #2 overall pick, I don't think anyone in an NFL FO would say it is. SO he will be STARTING at CB from day 1 or we completely overspent on him. Would you agree? So, if you're the coach are you going to allow your starting #2 overall pick, who you're paying $50 million dollars guaranteed, to risk injury returning punts and kicks?

Has there ever been anyone drafted in the top 5 who played STs? I can't think of a single one. It's risk vs reward. Too much invested to take that kind of risk. With the #2 overall pick (the highest pick EVER SPENT ON A DB) You drafted Peterson to be your "Franchise Shutdown Corner" for the next decade, anything else is a failure so risking his health playing STs is foolish. You're saying this guy is the next Champ Bailey, the next Deion Sanders, the next Rod Woodson.

Sure, Deion returned punts, but not even "Primetime" was the 2nd overall pick...

[turftoad]

I may be way off here, but once again, I just can't see the Broncos spending the #2 overall pick on Peterson and then letting him return punts and kicks. As the #2 overall pick, unless you are a QB, you are expected to START from day one. Not just start, but be a difference maker and compete for ROY and the probowl. So if we draft him, he'll be replacing either Champ or Goodman FROM DAY 1 at CB. Putting him at Safety isn't acceptable for the #2 overall pick, I don't think anyone in an NFL FO would say it is. SO he will be STARTING at CB from day 1 or we completely overspent on him. Would you agree? So, if you're the coach are you going to allow your starting #2 overall pick, who you're paying $50 million dollars guaranteed, to risk injury returning punts and kicks?

Has there ever been anyone drafted in the top 5 who played STs? I can't think of a single one. It's risk vs reward. Too much invested to take that kind of risk. With the #2 overall pick (the highest pick EVER SPENT ON A DB) You drafted Peterson to be your "Franchise Shutdown Corner" for the next decade, anything else is a failure so risking his health playing STs is foolish. You're saying this guy is the next Champ Bailey, the next Deion Sanders, the next Rod Woodson.

Sure, Deion returned punts, but not even "Primetime" was the 2nd overall pick...

He would replace Goodman and start right away.

[topscribe]

Did WASH have 2 solid CBs or just one?
How was DEN When Doom led the NFL in sacks?
The draft is also deep at CB. Not that DEN needs one.
The front 7 and more importantly, the front 4 is the problem on defense, not the secondary. There is no problem with the secondary. If there was, then DEN would not have just signed Champ to yet another big contract.
How was DEN when Doom was healthy and DEN played the 4-3?

Dude, seriously, dont put up Kiper quotes. Thats just plain bad.
Anyone else.

Washington had 3 elite CBs. So what does that mean?

According to Mayock, this draft has 8 - 10 DTs with first-round talent. I believe
the Broncos need to add one starter and one reserve because they aren't
hurting as badly as many think, IMO. Going back to the 4-3 is going to lift the
abilities of the likes of Ayers, Thomas, and even Doom.

By the time the second round rolls around, there will still be plenty of quality
available at DT.

Meanwhile, you have perhaps only one sure true superstar in the draft:
Patrick Peterson. I just would find it difficult to pass on him at this point . . .

-----

[topscribe]

I may be way off here, but once again, I just can't see the Broncos spending the #2 overall pick on Peterson and then letting him return punts and kicks. As the #2 overall pick, unless you are a QB, you are expected to START from day one. Not just start, but be a difference maker and compete for ROY and the probowl. So if we draft him, he'll be replacing either Champ or Goodman FROM DAY 1 at CB. Putting him at Safety isn't acceptable for the #2 overall pick, I don't think anyone in an NFL FO would say it is. SO he will be STARTING at CB from day 1 or we completely overspent on him. Would you agree? So, if you're the coach are you going to allow your starting #2 overall pick, who you're paying $50 million dollars guaranteed, to risk injury returning punts and kicks?

Has there ever been anyone drafted in the top 5 who played STs? I can't think of a single one. It's risk vs reward. Too much invested to take that kind of risk. With the #2 overall pick (the highest pick EVER SPENT ON A DB) You drafted Peterson to be your "Franchise Shutdown Corner" for the next decade, anything else is a failure so risking his health playing STs is foolish. You're saying this guy is the next Champ Bailey, the next Deion Sanders, the next Rod Woodson.

Sure, Deion returned punts, but not even "Primetime" was the 2nd overall pick...

My personal opinion is that Peterson is better than Deion was (as is Champ,
but that's for a different discussion). Peterson is an all-around CB who has
elite coverage abilities, yet hits and tackles like a safety. He is the total
package. Deion never was . . .

-----

[rcsodak]

I may be way off here, but once again, I just can't see the Broncos spending the #2 overall pick on Peterson and then letting him return punts and kicks. As the #2 overall pick, unless you are a QB, you are expected to START from day one. Not just start, but be a difference maker and compete for ROY and the probowl. So if we draft him, he'll be replacing either Champ or Goodman FROM DAY 1 at CB. Putting him at Safety isn't acceptable for the #2 overall pick, I don't think anyone in an NFL FO would say it is. SO he will be STARTING at CB from day 1 or we completely overspent on him. Would you agree? So, if you're the coach are you going to allow your starting #2 overall pick, who you're paying $50 million dollars guaranteed, to risk injury returning punts and kicks?

Has there ever been anyone drafted in the top 5 who played STs? I can't think of a single one. It's risk vs reward. Too much invested to take that kind of risk. With the #2 overall pick (the highest pick EVER SPENT ON A DB) You drafted Peterson to be your "Franchise Shutdown Corner" for the next decade, anything else is a failure so risking his health playing STs is foolish. You're saying this guy is the next Champ Bailey, the next Deion Sanders, the next Rod Woodson.

Sure, Deion returned punts, but not even "Primetime" was the 2nd overall pick...

Berry was #5, iirc.
And I think springs has played returner a time or two in his careee, iirc.
pdterson said at combine he wants to....but mayock (I think) said 1 should be his limit.
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[Ravage!!!]

I don't think Denver makes history and takes Peterson with the #2 overall pick. I DO however believe its an absolute must we take the BEST player. If that best player is a safety, then we should take him. We DO need to build up the DL, but there is no rule that says the ONLY way to do that is with your first pick of the draft. We actually have more than one pick.

Being that the draft is deep, we can still address our DT needs with picks other than the #2 IF THAT BE THE CASE. I don't think we are absolutely tied to the need to use the #2 pick on a DT just because thats a position of need. There are just as many (more) stud DL in the NFL that weren't taken in the first round.

[SOCALORADO.]

Washington had 3 elite CBs. So what does that mean?

According to Mayock, this draft has 8 - 10 DTs with first-round talent. I believe
the Broncos need to add one starter and one reserve because they aren't
hurting as badly as many think, IMO. Going back to the 4-3 is going to lift the
abilities of the likes of Ayers, Thomas, and even Doom.

By the time the second round rolls around, there will still be plenty of quality
available at DT.

Meanwhile, you have perhaps only one sure true superstar in the draft:
Patrick Peterson. I just would find it difficult to pass on him at this point . . .

-----

You making loon assumptions.
1. You dont think the defense is bad, or very bad, yet it ranks in the cellar in EVERY category. You do know that DEN went 4-12 last year right?
2. So going back to the 4-3 should just solve all of DEN woes on defense?
DEN cant play ANY sytem successfully right now! Why would you just assume its all good though? What gives you the impression that McBean, McAyers and McWilliams will just pan out?
3. Who says that Fairley and Dareus or Bowers are not superstars?!?! Mayock said yesterday that Dareus was the most dominating preformance at the combine.
4. Anyone who thinks this team needs just one player up front is literally on crack cocaine.

Quick question. What is more impressive?
Petersons 40, or Dareus and Fairley's 40?

How far behind is Dareus than Peterson?

[topscribe]

You making loon assumptions.
1. You dont think the defense is bad, or very bad, yet it ranks in the cellar in EVERY category. You do know that DEN went 4-12 last year right?
2. So going back to the 4-3 should just solve all of DEN woes on defense?
DEN cant play ANY sytem successfully right now! Why would you just assume its all good though? What gives you the impression that McBean, McAyers and McWilliams will just pan out?
3. Who says that Fairley and Dareus or Bowers are not superstars?!?! Mayock said yesterday that Dareus was the most dominating preformance at the combine.
4. Anyone who thinks this team needs just one player up front is literally on crack cocaine.

Quick question. What is more impressive?
Petersons 40, or Dareus and Fairley's 40?

How far behind is Dareus than Peterson?

You just made a lot of loon assumptions about what I said.

Hyperbole much?

-----

[SOCALORADO.]

You just made a lot of loon assumptions about what I said.

Hyperbole much?

-----
Show us the loon assumptions i made.

Loon assumption - Peterson would replace Goody right away.
Hyperbole - Term used constantly by former poster LEX.

[cuzz4169]

Did WASH have 2 solid CBs or just one?
How was DEN When Doom led the NFL in sacks?
The draft is also deep at CB. Not that DEN needs one.
The front 7 and more importantly, the front 4 is the problem on defense, not the secondary. There is no problem with the secondary. If there was, then DEN would not have just signed Champ to yet another big contract.
How was DEN when Doom was healthy and DEN played the 4-3?

Dude, seriously, dont put up Kiper quotes. Thats just plain bad.
Anyone else.

I don't see how you believe how are secondary is solid...Besides champ who is an above avg player? Denver resigned Champ bc if he did leave....our secondary would've been absolutely pathetic with no talent. We have no talent or depth in the secondary....who plz tell me who are the talented players and wheres the depth?

Denver has 3 Blue chip players Champ, Doom, Clady..Above avg players: Moreno, Lloyd, DJ Williams. Now the rest of the guys some can be above avg have potential or like Ayers position change will make him better same as Marcus Thomas. The rest are avg players or below avg.

Doom has been in the league a handful of years don't compare what he did his first 3 season to what type of player he is now. And don't tell me the 3-4 made him a better pass rusher bc most of his sacks came with his hand in the dirt at the DE position.

So who Quotes you want me to put up? I already put Elways up on what he thinks of Peterson. Who else you want? All the quotes on Peterson are the same doesn't matter who's saying it...he's an elite talent not a one yr wonder. He instantly makes Goodman a nickle back or even released.

[TXBRONC]

Washington had 3 elite CBs. So what does that mean?

According to Mayock, this draft has 8 - 10 DTs with first-round talent. I believe
the Broncos need to add one starter and one reserve because they aren't
hurting as badly as many think, IMO. Going back to the 4-3 is going to lift the
abilities of the likes of Ayers, Thomas, and even Doom.

By the time the second round rolls around, there will still be plenty of quality
available at DT.

Meanwhile, you have perhaps only one sure true superstar in the draft:
Patrick Peterson. I just would find it difficult to pass on him at this point . . .

-----

Going back a 4-3 might help Ayers be more productive. I don't see how moving back to 4-3 is going to raise Thomas' ability. He was ok the first time around but now the second time around it will lift his abilities? I really don't think so. Dumervil will be fine but he needs help on the interior.

[cuzz4169]

You making loon assumptions.
1. You dont think the defense is bad, or very bad, yet it ranks in the cellar in EVERY category. You do know that DEN went 4-12 last year right?
2. So going back to the 4-3 should just solve all of DEN woes on defense?
DEN cant play ANY sytem successfully right now! Why would you just assume its all good though? What gives you the impression that McBean, McAyers and McWilliams will just pan out?
3. Who says that Fairley and Dareus or Bowers are not superstars?!?! Mayock said yesterday that Dareus was the most dominating preformance at the combine.
4. Anyone who thinks this team needs just one player up front is literally on crack cocaine.

Quick question. What is more impressive?
Petersons 40, or Dareus and Fairley's 40?

How far behind is Dareus than Peterson?

hahahaha omg if your comparing those guys 40 times your clueless. you do know how big a difference those times are a 4.3 is a huge difference from a 4.8 or 4.9

by the way the 4.34 by peterson means he can run with anyone in the nfl!!

Not just going back to the 4-3 but having a coach who knows what he's doing on defense helps a lot!! I have always believed PRO Football is a sport you can beat teams with better talent if you have great coaching, schemes & game plans...

[topscribe]

Show us the loon assumptions i made.

Loon assumption - Peterson would replace Goody right away.
Hyperbole - Term used constantly by former poster LEX.

Lex also wrote in English. Should we then both change our languages? :rolleyes:
Last I saw, Lex's last name was neither Webster nor Merriam.


Anyway,

1. "You dont think the defense is bad, or very bad, yet it ranks in the cellar in EVERY category. You do know that DEN went 4-12 last year right?"

. I didn't say the defense wasn't bad. I know where it ranked. But I think a
. bit more deeply than that.


2. "So going back to the 4-3 should just solve all of DEN woes on defense? DEN cant play ANY sytem successfully right now! Why would you just assume its all good though? What gives you the impression that McBean, McAyers and McWilliams will just pan out?"

. I did not say that the 4-3 would solve ALLLLL of the problems. And
. because McDaniels brought them in does not automatically consign them
. to failure.


3. "Who says that Fairley and Dareus or Bowers are not superstars?!?! Mayock said yesterday that Dareus was the most dominating preformance at the combine."

. I made no such statement. If you will review my post, I said PERHAPS. In
. other words, my opinion . . . MAYBE.


4. "Anyone who thinks this team needs just one player up front is literally on crack cocaine."

. Anyone for an intelligent discussion? Not getting it here . . .

-----

[arapaho2]

He would replace Goodman and start right away.


yes...he would start on the 26th ranked defense..because cb isnt the problem...dline is

we have the #2 pick in the draft...why pick a player who will not improve the defense imediatly...dareus would...fairely would..

[cuzz4169]

Going back a 4-3 might help Ayers be more productive. I don't see how moving back to 4-3 is going to raise Thomas' ability. He was ok the first time around but now the second time around it will lift his abilities? I really don't think so. Dumervil will be fine but he needs help on the interior.

Thomas is a 4-3 DT...again he was in the league 2 yrs in a 4-3 you can't judge what he did 2 yrs into the NFL.

[topscribe]

yes...he would start on the 26th ranked defense..because cb isnt the problem...dline is

we have the #2 pick in the draft...why pick a player who will not improve the defense imediatly...dareus would...fairely would..

The key, Rap, is the depth of the D-line in this year's draft. If the Broncos did
choose Peterson, there appears plenty of quality available in the second round,
where they have two selections awaiting . . .

-----

[cuzz4169]

yes...he would start on the 26th ranked defense..because cb isnt the problem...dline is

we have the #2 pick in the draft...why pick a player who will not improve the defense imediatly...dareus would...fairely would..

Who says those guys would improve us right away? DT besides QB is the hardest transition to the NFL. Not one of those guys are Suh more like Glen Dorsey. Peterson is the safest pick. I disagree every position on the defense except for Dooms spot and Champs spot we could get better at.

[topscribe]

Going back a 4-3 might help Ayers be more productive. I don't see how moving back to 4-3 is going to raise Thomas' ability. He was ok the first time around but now the second time around it will lift his abilities? I really don't think so. Dumervil will be fine but he needs help on the interior.

Perhaps so, TX, but I don't think the 30 defense fit Thomas' abilities well. He is
more of a creator, a disruptor, and less of a one-gap lineman. I just don't think
what they have had him doing has been a good job fit for him. I believe he will
be much better in a 40 defense . . .

-----

[topscribe]

Who says those guys would improve us right away? DT besides QB is the hardest transition to the NFL. Not one of those guys are Suh more like Glen Dorsey. Peterson is the safest pick. I disagree every position on the defense except for Dooms spot and Champs spot we could get better at.

And perhaps Ayers. I really believe that, put his hand back in the dirt, and he
will break out this year. I may be wrong, but the guy has proven really explosive
and powerful out of the three-point stance, which is why he was selected so
highly in the first place . . .

-----

[arapaho2]

The key, Rap, is the depth of the D-line in this year's draft. If the Broncos did
choose Peterson, there appears plenty of quality available in the second round,
where they have two selections awaiting . . .

-----


sure theres depth...but we dont need a depth player we need a impact player

imagine if the lions had passed on suh because there was alot of depth in last years draft:coffee:

dareus is good...will anchor the dline for years to come and imediatly be an upgrade over anybody we got

[cuzz4169]

The key, Rap, is the depth of the D-line in this year's draft. If the Broncos did
choose Peterson, there appears plenty of quality available in the second round,
where they have two selections awaiting . . .

-----

top I'm with ya..that's the point I'm trying to make..as good as Fairley and Dareus are good player and I'd be happy with either but they still have red flags. Whats Petersons Red flag? It was his speed well I think he shut that down.

[cuzz4169]

And perhaps Ayers. I really believe that, put his hand back in the dirt, and he
will break out this year. I may be wrong, but the guy is really explosive and
powerful out of the three-point stance . . .

-----

God Damn it stop it...I don't like agreeing with ya!!!

[TXBRONC]

Thomas is a 4-3 DT...again he was in the league 2 yrs in a 4-3 you can't judge what he did 2 yrs into the NFL.

Yes you can start to draw conclusions. There was no huge improvement from year one to year two. I don't think Fox will ignore it.

[topscribe]

sure theres depth...but we dont need a depth player we need a impact player

imagine if the lions had passed on suh because there was alot of depth in last years draft:coffee:

dareus is good...will anchor the dline for years to come and imediatly be an upgrade over anybody we got

Well, you may be right, Rap. But, according to Mayock, as I mentioned, there
are 8 -10 DT's with first-round talent in this draft. First round means impact.



top I'm with ya..that's the point I'm trying to make..as good as Fairley and Dareus are good player and I'd be happy with either but they still have red flags. Whats Petersons Red flag? It was his speed well I think he shut that down.

And what you saw from the Combine is not the fastest Peterson has run . . .

-----

[cuzz4169]

sure theres depth...but we dont need a depth player we need a impact player

imagine if the lions had passed on suh because there was alot of depth in last years draft:coffee:

dareus is good...will anchor the dline for years to come and imediatly be an upgrade over anybody we got

I agree but I don't think any of these guys are any where close to Suh.

I said it earlier I'm a Gator fan and Dareus never stood out to me. He wasn't a guy where I was thinking shit they better block him. His combine #s look good but I just was never blown away by game play.

[turftoad]

yes...he would start on the 26th ranked defense..because cb isnt the problem...dline is

we have the #2 pick in the draft...why pick a player who will not improve the defense imediatly...dareus would...fairely would..

There isn't a a position on the defense that isn't a problem. I would love to take Dareus or Fairley (I like Dareus better) but wouldn't be pissed if we took Peterson.
Yeah we re signed Champ but he won't last forever and has already slowed down. Peterson would replace Goodman immediatly and would start for years to come. Either way we are doing to get a good player. At #2 overall a difference maker would be nice.

[cuzz4169]

Remember one thing a lot of solid DT's will drop out of 1st round bc every year teams start reaching for OT's.

[topscribe]

There isn't a a position on the defense that isn't a problem. I would love to take Dareus or Fairley (I like Dareus better) but wouldn't be pissed if we took Peterson.
Yeah we re signed Champ but he won't last forever and has already slowed down. Peterson would replace Goodman immediatly and would start for years to come. Either way we are doing to get a good player. At #2 overall a difference maker would be nice.

That Champ has slowed very much is, I think, a misconception. I was impressed
this last year by his speed, after hearing that so much. But then, this is another
year, and Champ is another year older, so we'll have to see year-by-year now.

Nonetheless, I would love to see the deer-in-the-headlights looks from QBs as
they look out and see Champ, Peterson, and Goody awaiting their passes . . .

-----

[cuzz4169]

There isn't a a position on the defense that isn't a problem. I would love to take Dareus or Fairley (I like Dareus better) but wouldn't be pissed if we took Peterson.
Yeah we re signed Champ but he won't last forever and has already slowed down. Peterson would replace Goodman immediatly and would start for years to come. Either way we are doing to get a good player. At #2 overall a difference maker would be nice.

I think thats what me and top are saying...We can't go wrong with Dareus, Peterson, Fairley or Miller...Nothing to be mad at if we take any of those guys. Bc we get better immediately with anyone of them.

[cuzz4169]

I think all of us have our favorite guy...but none of us have a say.

[TXBRONC]

Perhaps so, TX, but I don't think the 30 defense fit Thomas' abilities well. He is
more of a creator, a disruptor, and less of a one-gap lineman. I just don't think
what they have had him doing has been a good job fit for him. I believe he will
be much better in a 40 defense . . .

-----

Agreed he's a better fit for a 4-3. That being said, I didn't think he showed much explosion the first time around. Maybe with a new coordiator things will be different this time around but it's hard to say. :whoknows:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Last year, the best, safest pick in the draft was Eric Berry. Pound for pound, he was the safest, most sure thing. Suh was drafted at #2, Berry at #5. Which one was more instrumental to his team? Suh, arguably, had a much larger effect on Detroit's defense than Berry did on KC's.

There's a reason that DBs are not typically drafted in the top 5 and usually only QBs, DL and OTs are. The games are won and lost in the trenches. You can completely remove a guy like Champ or Peterson from the game by just not throwing at them. Shit, with 5 seconds to let a WR get open, any pro QB can complete a pass on any CB - including the two listed.

How does Peterson help vs the run? If it's chasing down guys 10 yards downfield, then we've already failed. Guys keep talking about taking BPA, but that's how teams like Detroit draft 4 1st round WRs in 6 years (only one is still on the roster). Just so happens, that WR was the BPA where they drafted. If we want BPA, why don't we just draft AJ Green at #2? Umm, because we don't need him - just like we don't need another CB at #2 overall.

I see guys keep saying that drafting Peterson at #2 is no big deal because the draft is deep at DL. Great but, rookie cap or not, we're still going to have MILLIONS tied up between Champ, Peterson, Goodman, and Dawkins that won't be able to be used on the DL. Once again, we'll blow cap space on flashy players that don't actually have enough of an effect to win you games without really making our DL better.

We have an opportunity to finally address the D-Line THE RIGHT WAY (spoken: not bringing in overpriced, over the hill vets on their way down) through the draft. With our first 3 picks, we have the ability to completely rebuild a D-line of the future and cut loose a lot of worthless, dead-weight currently on the roster. No other area on the team is as big a need or is anywhere near as important. Fix the D-line, and the rest of the defense will follow. It's the truth.

Didn't we just drop a first rounder (traded for a second), a 5th rounder, a 7th rounder (traded for a 5th), and pick up 2 UDFA CBs in the last 2 years? Didn't we also just spend a 2nd and a 4th round pick on Safeties last year? How many of our draft picks were spent on the D-line? Knowing that Ayers was drafted to play OLB in McDaniels' 3-4, we've attempted to draft a grand total of ZERO D-Linemen in the past 2 years.

I wouldn't have a problem, as a matter of fact, I'd be as happy as a pig in shit if we spent our first three picks on the D-line.

Could you imagine if we came out of this draft with Dareus/Fairley, Austin/Paea/Taylor, and Bailey/Acho in the first three picks? Or Bowers/Quinn and Austin/Paea/Taylor and Powe? Or any combination of three D-linemen that will make us instantly better and give Doom help with the pass rush and Ayers help stopping the run? Wouldn't that be great?

[BORDERLINE]

I would like to see denver select a defensive linemen for the past two years we have only drafted 1 defensive player in the first round out of four picks and Ayers isn't really impressing the NFL. We need a big azz defender to clog the middle and dump jamal williams

[SOCALORADO.]

hahahaha omg if your comparing those guys 40 times your clueless. you do know how big a difference those times are a 4.3 is a huge difference from a 4.8 or 4.9

So Dareus' 40 time isnt more impressive than Petersons?
And no, there isnt a huge difference. Thats why Dareus and Fairley are more impressive. Not saying Petersons time isnt impressive, but not even close to the top DTs. How come Deon and Mayock were so impresssed with Dareus and Fairley? And why wasnt Deon so impressed with Peterson?

by the way the 4.34 by peterson means he can run with anyone in the nfl!!

So by your logic anyone who runs near to 4.3 or under can run with anyone in the NFL! Huh. Good thing there were others that did this yesterday, not that it matters..

Not just going back to the 4-3 but having a coach who knows what he's doing on defense helps a lot!! I have always believed PRO Football is a sport you can beat teams with better talent if you have great coaching, schemes & game plans...

Coaches need talent, and theres not alot on the front 4. The secondary is fine.

:defense:

[topscribe]

Agreed he's a better fit for a 4-3. That being said, I didn't think he showed much explosion the first time around. Maybe with a new coordiator things will be different this time around but it's hard say. :whoknows:

I'm sure you recall that they were saying Thomas was a first-round talent who
slid because of off-field problems. Let's hope Fox, Allen, and Nunnely can get
that kind of impact from him this year. I will admit that it would be a substantial
lift for Thomas to have an impact player beside him.

That's where, as Coach expressed, I would not be upset with the selection of
Fairley or (preferably, IMO) Dareus. Imagine one of them in a line with Thomas,
Doom, and Ayers. That just could be the makings of one whale of a D-line . . .

-----

[turftoad]

Last year, the best, safest pick in the draft was Eric Berry. Pound for pound, he was the safest, most sure thing. Suh was drafted at #2, Berry at #5. Which one was more instrumental to his team? Suh, arguably, had a much larger effect on Detroit's defense than Berry did on KC's.

There's a reason that DBs are not typically drafted in the top 5 and usually only QBs, DL and OTs are. The games are won and lost in the trenches. You can completely remove a guy like Champ or Peterson from the game by just not throwing at them. Shit, with 5 seconds to let a WR get open, any pro QB can complete a pass on any CB - including the two listed.

How does Peterson help vs the run? If it's chasing down guys 10 yards downfield, then we've already failed. Guys keep talking about taking BPA, but that's how teams like Detroit draft 4 1st round WRs in 6 years (only one is still on the roster). Just so happens, that WR was the BPA where they drafted. If we want BPA, why don't we just draft AJ Green at #2? Umm, because we don't need him - just like we don't need another CB at #2 overall.

I see guys keep saying that drafting Peterson at #2 is no big deal because the draft is deep at DL. Great but, rookie cap or not, we're still going to have MILLIONS tied up between Champ, Peterson, Goodman, and Dawkins that won't be able to be used on the DL. Once again, we'll blow cap space on flashy players that don't actually have enough of an effect to win you games without really making our DL better.

We have an opportunity to finally address the D-Line THE RIGHT WAY (spoken: not bringing in overpriced, over the hill vets on their way down) through the draft. With our first 3 picks, we have the ability to completely rebuild a D-line of the future and cut loose a lot of worthless, dead-weight currently on the roster. No other area on the team is as big a need or is anywhere near as important. Fix the D-line, and the rest of the defense will follow. It's the truth.

Didn't we just drop a first rounder (traded for a second), a 5th rounder, a 7th rounder (traded for a 5th), and pick up 2 UDFA CBs in the last 2 years? Didn't we also just spend a 2nd and a 4th round pick on Safeties last year? How many of our draft picks were spent on the D-line? Knowing that Ayers was drafted to play OLB in McDaniels' 3-4, we've attempted to draft a grand total of ZERO D-Linemen in the past 2 years.

I wouldn't have a problem, as a matter of fact, I'd be as happy as a pig in shit if we spent our first three picks on the D-line.

Could you imagine if we came out of this draft with Dareus/Fairley, Austin/Paea/Taylor, and Bailey/Acho in the first three picks? Or Bowers/Quinn and Austin/Paea/Taylor and Powe? Or any combination of three D-linemen that will make us instantly better and give Doom help with the pass rush and Ayers help stopping the run? Wouldn't that be great?

Yes, yes it would. I'd be all for that but........ I still wouldn't be pissed if Peterson was the guy then DL after that. Like some have pointed out, If, and I say if, any of the DT's out there were highly sought after as Suh was, I'd be all for it. But.... none are.

[rcsodak]

The key, Rap, is the depth of the D-line in this year's draft. If the Broncos did
choose Peterson, there appears plenty of quality available in the second round,
where they have two selections awaiting . . .

-----

What about drafting peterson @ 2, then trading back into the 1st to take one of the 8-9 top tier DT/DE's?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[NightTerror218]

There are only a couple up sides to drafting Peterson I can see, he is suppose to be the most NFL ready player and an instant impact to any team he joins. And another is that there are soo many DL in this draft that we will easily get one in the 2nd round. I just dont think we can get as much of an impact DL in the 2nd as we could ant #2

[TXBRONC]

Yes, yes it would. I'd be all for that but........ I still wouldn't be pissed if Peterson was the guy then DL after that. Like some have pointed out, If, and I say if, any of the DT's out there were highly sought after as Suh was, I'd be all for it. But.... none are.

Fairley and Bowers have both been in the conversation for being the first overall pick in the draft.

As HP point Berry was considered the safest pick in last years draft but Suh was still picked ahead of him.

[topscribe]

What about drafting peterson @ 2, then trading back into the 1st to take one of the 8-9 top tier DT/DE's?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

IMO, that would be disastrous, RC. It would take all the selections the Broncos
have to do that, and they need more players than that. No, I do believe there
will be some very good DTs available when the second round comes up.

IMHO.



Fairley and Bowers have both been in the conversation for being the first overall pick in the draft.

As HP point Berry was considered the safest pick in last years draft but Suh was still picked ahead of him.

And for good reason. I'd rather have Suh than Berry . . .

-----

[SOCALORADO.]

Last year, the best, safest pick in the draft was Eric Berry. Pound for pound, he was the safest, most sure thing. Suh was drafted at #2, Berry at #5. Which one was more instrumental to his team? Suh, arguably, had a much larger effect on Detroit's defense than Berry did on KC's.

There's a reason that DBs are not typically drafted in the top 5 and usually only QBs, DL and OTs are. The games are won and lost in the trenches. You can completely remove a guy like Champ or Peterson from the game by just not throwing at them. Shit, with 5 seconds to let a WR get open, any pro QB can complete a pass on any CB - including the two listed.

How does Peterson help vs the run? If it's chasing down guys 10 yards downfield, then we've already failed. Guys keep talking about taking BPA, but that's how teams like Detroit draft 4 1st round WRs in 6 years (only one is still on the roster). Just so happens, that WR was the BPA where they drafted. If we want BPA, why don't we just draft AJ Green at #2? Umm, because we don't need him - just like we don't need another CB at #2 overall.

I see guys keep saying that drafting Peterson at #2 is no big deal because the draft is deep at DL. Great but, rookie cap or not, we're still going to have MILLIONS tied up between Champ, Peterson, Goodman, and Dawkins that won't be able to be used on the DL. Once again, we'll blow cap space on flashy players that don't actually have enough of an effect to win you games without really making our DL better.

We have an opportunity to finally address the D-Line THE RIGHT WAY (spoken: not bringing in overpriced, over the hill vets on their way down) through the draft. With our first 3 picks, we have the ability to completely rebuild a D-line of the future and cut loose a lot of worthless, dead-weight currently on the roster. No other area on the team is as big a need or is anywhere near as important. Fix the D-line, and the rest of the defense will follow. It's the truth.

Didn't we just drop a first rounder (traded for a second), a 5th rounder, a 7th rounder (traded for a 5th), and pick up 2 UDFA CBs in the last 2 years? Didn't we also just spend a 2nd and a 4th round pick on Safeties last year? How many of our draft picks were spent on the D-line? Knowing that Ayers was drafted to play OLB in McDaniels' 3-4, we've attempted to draft a grand total of ZERO D-Linemen in the past 2 years.

I wouldn't have a problem, as a matter of fact, I'd be as happy as a pig in shit if we spent our first three picks on the D-line.

Could you imagine if we came out of this draft with Dareus/Fairley, Austin/Paea/Taylor, and Bailey/Acho in the first three picks? Or Bowers/Quinn and Austin/Paea/Taylor and Powe? Or any combination of three D-linemen that will make us instantly better and give Doom help with the pass rush and Ayers help stopping the run? Wouldn't that be great?

Since we have all this "hyperbole" (love that word!) going around on this subject, heres an actual example of what you post explained.

During the last SB, GB by halftime lost almost its ENTIRE secondary!
All those "ballhawks" and "insane", "sick" playmakers with mad skilllllz, yo.
All of them were gone, replaced by back-ups and rooks.
And yet GB still won the game.
And why? Cause they have one of the best front 7's in football.
Big Ben was chased, harrassed, attacked, hurried, knocked down, and basically gang-banged by the likes of Raji, Pickett, Jenkins, Matthews, Hawk and Bishop.
But nevermind that!
GB secondary after the injuries.
CB Tramon Williams- non drafted FA
CB Jarrett Bush - non drafted FA
S Nick Collins- 2nd round draft pick

Please spare us all the BS about how important taking a CB high is. Its not
Games are won in the trenches.

[topscribe]

Since we have all this "hyperbole" (love that word!) going around on this subject, heres an actual example of what you post explained.

During the last SB, GB by halftime lost almost its ENTIRE secondary!
All those "ballhawks" and "insane", "sick" playmakers with mad skilllllz, yo.
All of them were gone, replaced by back-ups and rooks.
And yet GB still won the game.
And why? Cause they have one of the best front 7's in football.
Big Ben was chased, harrassed, attacked, hurried, knocked down, and basically gang-banged by the likes of Raji, Pickett, Jenkins, Matthews, Hawk and Bishop.
But nevermind that!
GB secondary after the injuries.
CB Tramon Williams- non drafted FA
CB Jarrett Bush - non drafted FA
S Nick Collins 2nd round draft pick

Can't argue with that. Green Bay -- as you just showed -- and the Giants
before them, dramatically demonstrated that pass defense begins with the
pass rush -- and decent defense against the run, too.

I just think -- and Mayock seemed to imply this -- there may be enough talent
in the 2nd round to have both . . .

-----

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Yes, yes it would. I'd be all for that but........ I still wouldn't be pissed if Peterson was the guy then DL after that. Like some have pointed out, If, and I say if, any of the DT's out there were highly sought after as Suh was, I'd be all for it. But.... none are.

I understand that Fairley and Dareus may not be Suh and I'm far from a draft expert or talent evaluator, but when I watch the combine and hear Warren Sapp refer to Fairley as a "Safety in a 300 lb body" because of the way he moves or compare Dareus' explosive first step to his own I get all giddy just thinking about one of them being a Bronco...:D ;)

The overwhelming cry from every message board I subscribe to and 99% of the media when it concerns Denver is (and has been for a years) to fix the D-line through the draft. We finally have fallen to dead last, #32 in the league on defense. But, we have a defensive HC and a new FO that seems committed to fix it. Drafting a position that isn't a need at an elite talent spot when there are 4 elite talents in positions of need there also is a failure in my book and I will be disappointed.

I'm no draft guru nor am I a coach, scout, or GM so I'm going to trust this current Broncos FO to make the right choice for this team at #2.

[TXBRONC]

What about drafting peterson @ 2, then trading back into the 1st to take one of the 8-9 top tier DT/DE's?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Since no one answered you the first time you asked this question I'll give it a go so that you will not leave with an empty feeling. :D

We have a total six picks and assuming we don't procure extra picks then I don't think it would be a good idea to trade back into the first round. We probably have to give up both of our second round picks and if did that would leave us with a total of four picks. I would be more comfortable with that idea if we had more draft currency.

[rcsodak]

Perhaps so, TX, but I don't think the 30 defense fit Thomas' abilities well. He is
more of a creator, a disruptor, and less of a one-gap lineman. I just don't think
what they have had him doing has been a good job fit for him. I believe he will
be much better in a 40 defense . . .

-----
Top, isn't a disruptive DT more of a 1gap player? Getting into the backfield vs holding up a couple guys? Or is that just me?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Ravage!!!]

So the RIGHT way is always to take a DT in the first round??? :confused:

What about all these DTs around the league that weren't taken in the first round, not to mention with the #2 overall pick??? Those teams didn't build their DL the "right" way??? What does that even mean, the "right" way?? I'm confused with this.


I think most of everyone agrees that the DL is an absolute MUST need to improve. But its not the "right" way to pick purely because thats the position you want. If/when picking at #2, you absolutely need to take the best player available because its being paid BIG bucks. We need nearly every position on the field.

I'm big on building up our DL, but I think its short-sighted to believe that the ONLY way you can build up your DL is to use your first round pick on a DL. If we were picking later in the first round, I can say that you take the best player at the most needed position. When at #2, and that top 5 money, you have to be as positive as possible that its a its a SURE player and not just a position that you are drafting.

I'm not saying we should pick up someone else other than the top DL, but I sure as hell know that if we do that we didn't "waste" a draft purely because we didn't take a DL with the first round pick. We need to be sure to get TOP PLAYERS with that #2 overall pick.

[topscribe]

Top, isn't a disruptive DT more of a 1gap player? Getting into the backfield vs holding up a couple guys? Or is that just me?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Might've got it backwards. When they decided I stunk up the joint at QB and
put me over at DE, the major technique back then was to gather up some
offensive linemen and throw them at the QB. None of the 1-gap or 2-, 3-, or
whatever-gap business. Just go get your nose bloodied, which I did very well --
get my nose bloodied, that is (not much else).

-----

[cuzz4169]

Originally Posted by cuzz4169 View Post
hahahaha omg if your comparing those guys 40 times your clueless. you do know how big a difference those times are a 4.3 is a huge difference from a 4.8 or 4.9

So Dareus' 40 time isnt more impressive than Petersons?
And no, there isnt a huge difference. Thats why Dareus and Fairley are more impressive. Not saying Petersons time isnt impressive, but not even close to the top DTs. How come Deon and Mayock were so impresssed with Dareus and Fairley? And why wasnt Deon so impressed with Peterson?

by the way the 4.34 by peterson means he can run with anyone in the nfl!!

So by your logic anyone who runs near to 4.3 or under can run with anyone in the NFL! Huh. Good thing there were others that did this yesterday, not that it matters..

Not just going back to the 4-3 but having a coach who knows what he's doing on defense helps a lot!! I have always believed PRO Football is a sport you can beat teams with better talent if you have great coaching, schemes & game plans...

Coaches need talent, and theres not alot on the front 4. The secondary is fine.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________--
Wow you have no idea!!!
I know the difference between a guy in a race if they run next to each other a 4.8 or 4.9 guy races a 4.3 guy he gets smoked by about 5-7 yards and that's a lot!!
I work tryouts for baseball and a 6.3 60yd time is a big difference from a guy who runs a 6.8 or 6.9...

but heres some math: (40 yards) / (4.3 or 4.9 seconds) times (3,600 seconds per hour) / (1,760 yards per mile)

4.3 = 19MPH
4.9 = 16.7MPH
Big difference in a race.

[Ravage!!!]

Since we have all this "hyperbole" (love that word!) going around on this subject, heres an actual example of what you post explained.

During the last SB, GB by halftime lost almost its ENTIRE secondary!
All those "ballhawks" and "insane", "sick" playmakers with mad skilllllz, yo.
All of them were gone, replaced by back-ups and rooks.
And yet GB still won the game.
And why? Cause they have one of the best front 7's in football.
Big Ben was chased, harrassed, attacked, hurried, knocked down, and basically gang-banged by the likes of Raji, Pickett, Jenkins, Matthews, Hawk and Bishop.
But nevermind that!
GB secondary after the injuries.
CB Tramon Williams- non drafted FA
CB Jarrett Bush - non drafted FA
S Nick Collins- 2nd round draft pick

Please spare us all the BS about how important taking a CB high is. Its not
Games are won in the trenches.


You can't use one game as your example for I can use the same game to point out the opposite.

In that Super Bowl, the Pittsburgh Steelers lost MORE starting lineman DUring the game, as well as their starting Center the week before. During that game, Ben Rothlesburger was CAMPING most of the time in his pocket, behind 2nd string OLman, and couldn't find an open WR due to the coverage of the GB packers.

Meanwhile.. the Pittsburgh Steelers had knocked down Rodgers 16 our of his first 34 pass attempts, yet the Steelers WEAK DBs couldn't cover the GB WRs and Rodgers was easily finding open men.

So although your example is a good example of why you need DL, I can use the same game and point out just the opposite.

[rcsodak]

That Champ has slowed very much is, I think, a misconception. I was impressed
this last year by his speed, after hearing that so much. But then, this is another
year, and Champ is another year older, so we'll have to see year-by-year now.

Nonetheless, I would love to see the deer-in-the-headlights looks from QBs as
they look out and see Champ, Peterson, and Goody awaiting their passes . . .

-----
Like qb's had playing Oak with osamugha/routt?
Unless there is pressure, they can still sit back and wait fot the wr to get separation.
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[topscribe]

Originally Posted by cuzz4169 View Post
hahahaha omg if your comparing those guys 40 times your clueless. you do know how big a difference those times are a 4.3 is a huge difference from a 4.8 or 4.9

So Dareus' 40 time isnt more impressive than Petersons?
And no, there isnt a huge difference. Thats why Dareus and Fairley are more impressive. Not saying Petersons time isnt impressive, but not even close to the top DTs. How come Deon and Mayock were so impresssed with Dareus and Fairley? And why wasnt Deon so impressed with Peterson?

by the way the 4.34 by peterson means he can run with anyone in the nfl!!

So by your logic anyone who runs near to 4.3 or under can run with anyone in the NFL! Huh. Good thing there were others that did this yesterday, not that it matters..

Not just going back to the 4-3 but having a coach who knows what he's doing on defense helps a lot!! I have always believed PRO Football is a sport you can beat teams with better talent if you have great coaching, schemes & game plans...

Coaches need talent, and theres not alot on the front 4. The secondary is fine.

Wow you have no idea!!!
I know the difference between a guy in a race if they run next to each other a 4.8 or 4.9 guy races a 4.3 guy he gets smoked by about 5-7 yards and that's a lot!!
I work tryouts for baseball and a 6.3 60yd time is a big difference from a guy who runs a 6.8 or 6.9...

but heres some math: (40 yards) / (4.3 or 4.9 seconds) times (3,600 seconds per hour) / (1,760 yards per mile)

4.3 = 19MPH
4.9 = 16.7MPH
Big difference in a race.

I ran a 4.4 - 40.















That is, 4.4 yards in 40 seconds . . .



-----

[turftoad]

I understand that Fairley and Dareus may not be Suh and I'm far from a draft expert or talent evaluator, but when I watch the combine and hear Warren Sapp refer to Fairley as a "Safety in a 300 lb body" because of the way he moves or compare Dareus' explosive first step to his own I get all giddy just thinking about one of them being a Bronco...:D ;)

The overwhelming cry from every message board I subscribe to and 99% of the media when it concerns Denver is (and has been for a years) to fix the D-line through the draft. We finally have fallen to dead last, #32 in the league on defense. But, we have a defensive HC and a new FO that seems committed to fix it. Drafting a position that isn't a need at an elite talent spot when there are 4 elite talents in positions of need there also is a failure in my book and I will be disappointed.

I'm no draft guru nor am I a coach, scout, or GM so I'm going to trust this current Broncos FO to make the right choice for this team at #2.

I agree with everything is this post except for the thinking that the secondary isn't a position of need. At this point, all of our defensive positions are positions of need. If Cox is still on the team and not in friggin jail, CB becomes a little less a position of need, this year anyway.

[SOCALORADO.]

Originally Posted by cuzz4169 View Post
hahahaha omg if your comparing those guys 40 times your clueless. you do know how big a difference those times are a 4.3 is a huge difference from a 4.8 or 4.9

So Dareus' 40 time isnt more impressive than Petersons?
And no, there isnt a huge difference. Thats why Dareus and Fairley are more impressive. Not saying Petersons time isnt impressive, but not even close to the top DTs. How come Deon and Mayock were so impresssed with Dareus and Fairley? And why wasnt Deon so impressed with Peterson?

by the way the 4.34 by peterson means he can run with anyone in the nfl!!

So by your logic anyone who runs near to 4.3 or under can run with anyone in the NFL! Huh. Good thing there were others that did this yesterday, not that it matters..

Not just going back to the 4-3 but having a coach who knows what he's doing on defense helps a lot!! I have always believed PRO Football is a sport you can beat teams with better talent if you have great coaching, schemes & game plans...

Coaches need talent, and theres not alot on the front 4. The secondary is fine.

Wow you have no idea!!!
I know the difference between a guy in a race if they run next to each other a 4.8 or 4.9 guy races a 4.3 guy he gets smoked by about 5-7 yards and that's a lot!!
I work tryouts for baseball and a 6.3 60yd time is a big difference from a guy who runs a 6.8 or 6.9...

but heres some math: (40 yards) / (4.3 or 4.9 seconds) times (3,600 seconds per hour) / (1,760 yards per mile)

4.3 = 19MPH
4.9 = 16.7MPH
Big difference in a race.

Heres some math
320 LB DT ran a 4.94
Peterson ran a 4.34

While Peterson was impressive, Dareus was more impressive.
And Fairley more than Dareus.

[SOCALORADO.]

You can't use one game as your example for I can use the same game to point out the opposite.

In that Super Bowl, the Pittsburgh Steelers lost MORE starting lineman DUring the game, as well as their starting Center the week before. During that game, Ben Rothlesburger was CAMPING most of the time in his pocket, behind 2nd string OLman, and couldn't find an open WR due to the coverage of the GB packers.

Meanwhile.. the Pittsburgh Steelers had knocked down Rodgers 16 our of his first 34 pass attempts, yet the Steelers WEAK DBs couldn't cover the GB WRs and Rodgers was easily finding open men.

So although your example is a good example of why you need DL, I can use the same game and point out just the opposite.

The example was to point out that secondary players can be found in later rounds, or undrafted, unlike most talented d-line players.
And PITs starting Center played a hell of a game. It is the other SB team, lets not sell them short.

[cuzz4169]

I'm not a fan of comparing other teams or what a certain team did against this team. GB has a great defense front 7 back 4 doesn't matter they are good all over.

It's team defense period...Houston has been taking front 7 guys forever where has it gotten them? Every team is different this is the Broncos organization not the Steelers, GB, Houston or thank god the Raiders...Every team has their own beliefs and strategies.

[rcsodak]

IMO, that would be disastrous, RC. It would take all the selections the Broncos
have to do that, and they need more players than that. No, I do believe there
will be some very good DTs available when the second round comes up.

IMHO.




And for good reason. I'd rather have Suh than Berry . . .

-----
Really? What does the 2-2's add up to, pt wise? Im just curious if it wouldn't be an opportunity to get 2 REALLY good players, should the chance arise. Versus sitting back and HOPING a good DT falls to the 2nd.
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[TXBRONC]

I agree with everything is this post except for the thinking that the secondary isn't a position of need. At this point, all of our defensive positions are positions of need. If Cox is still on the team and not in friggin jail, CB becomes a little less a position of need, this year anyway.

I can agree we need to upgrade at every position on defense. That being the the first order of business is the defensive line imho.

[cuzz4169]

I ran a 4.4 - 40.















That is, 4.4 yards in 40 seconds . . .



-----
hahahaha
I ran a 4.63 at 250lbs..If it wasn't for me being a knuckle head getting arrested with a gun...I would be a national champion in 1996 Florida Gators. But that's another story.

[topscribe]

Really? What does the 2-2's add up to, pt wise? Im just curious if it wouldn't be an opportunity to get 2 REALLY good players, should the chance arise. Versus sitting back and HOPING a good DT falls to the 2nd.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

You could be right, RC. It would just make me very nervous, is all.

But then, I will be nervous during the draft, anyway, and for a time afterward . . .

-----

[topscribe]

hahahaha
I ran a 4.63 at 250lbs..If it wasn't for me being a knuckle head getting arrested with a gun...I would be a national champion in 1996 Florida Gators. But that's another story.

I knew there was a reason I shouldn't mess with you . . .

-----

[rcsodak]

Since we have all this "hyperbole" (love that word!) going around on this subject, heres an actual example of what you post explained.

During the last SB, GB by halftime lost almost its ENTIRE secondary!
All those "ballhawks" and "insane", "sick" playmakers with mad skilllllz, yo.
All of them were gone, replaced by back-ups and rooks.
And yet GB still won the game.
And why? Cause they have one of the best front 7's in football.
Big Ben was chased, harrassed, attacked, hurried, knocked down, and basically gang-banged by the likes of Raji, Pickett, Jenkins, Matthews, Hawk and Bishop.
But nevermind that!
GB secondary after the injuries.
CB Tramon Williams- non drafted FA
CB Jarrett Bush - non drafted FA
S Nick Collins- 2nd round draft pick

Please spare us all the BS about how important taking a CB high is. Its not
Games are won in the trenches.
You forgot, evidently, how ben started making completions, and almost took home the lombardi BECUZ of said backups in the secondary.
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[HORSEPOWER 56]

So the RIGHT way is always to take a DT in the first round??? :confused:

Of course not, but when your best DT is on the high side of 30 and probably wouldn't start anywhere else, it's time to stop screwing the pooch and fix the problem. We've been screwing around with the DL for years and we've finally landed dead last in defense.


What about all these DTs around the league that weren't taken in the first round, not to mention with the #2 overall pick??? Those teams didn't build their DL the "right" way??? What does that even mean, the "right" way?? I'm confused with this.

My definition of "the right way" is using the draft to build your talent pool and use free agency sparingly to fill the holes you just can't fill in the draft. Call me crazy but when only ONE of the 5 potential 4-3 DTs on your roster was drafted by your team (Thomas) then you've failed.


I think most of everyone agrees that the DL is an absolute MUST need to improve. But its not the "right" way to pick purely because thats the position you want. If/when picking at #2, you absolutely need to take the best player available because its being paid BIG bucks. We need nearly every position on the field.

I'd completely agree with you if both Fairley and Dareus weren't elite prospects and weren't supposed to be in the top 10 and taking them would be any sort of reach, but Fairley has been favored to go #1 overall since the NC game and has done nothing so far to diminish his value. The advantage is, both Fairley and Dareus are top 5 rated AND fill a huge need. It's not like Patrick Peterson is likely going to be that much better a CB than Fairley will be a DT such that we should take an area that, no matter what people think just isn't a need right now. It's about value. A CB has NEVER been drafted that high because the VALUE isn't there.


I'm big on building up our DL, but I think its short-sighted to believe that the ONLY way you can build up your DL is to use your first round pick on a DL. If we were picking later in the first round, I can say that you take the best player at the most needed position. When at #2, and that top 5 money, you have to be as positive as possible that its a its a SURE player and not just a position that you are drafting.

And I think it's short sighted to even consider a CB at #2 when you have a HOFer and a very solid #2 CB who are both under contract for a shitload of money and who will NOT improve your #32-vs-the-run defense. What's so hard for folks to understand about this? Champ wasn't the issue last year. CB wasn't the issue. Why would bringing in another super-high priced pick at CB help our defense? We might as well blow the money that Peterson would command and sign Nnamdi Asomugha (it will probably end up being about the same price) and get a proven commodity.


I'm not saying we should pick up someone else other than the top DL, but I sure as hell know that if we do that we didn't "waste" a draft purely because we didn't take a DL with the first round pick. We need to be sure to get TOP PLAYERS with that #2 overall pick.

IMO, it is a waste because we had the opportunity to address a NEED without reaching and blew it. If you don't think there's a HUGE difference between Fairley/Dareus and Bowers/Quinn and "the field", then I'll never convince you otherwise. Are they guaranteed? Of course not, but Peterson ain't no Champ or Primetime, either and could bust just as hard and just as fast. Just because typically CBs are a "safer" pick doesn't make them a "better" pick, not for us...

[HORSEPOWER 56]

You forgot, evidently, how ben started making completions, and almost took home the lombardi BECUZ of said backups in the secondary.
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Maybe you and I watched a different game, but 2 of Ben's INTs and Mendenhall's fumble were directly from PRESSURE BY THE FRONT 7, not because the secondary made great plays.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

You forgot, evidently, how ben started making completions, and almost took home the lombardi BECUZ of said backups in the secondary.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Or, was it because Pittsburgh finally started to commit to the running game? Hmmm... It would be interesting to look up the quarter by quarter stats on points vs rushing yards by quarter... :confused:

[topscribe]

How can a guy who looks like this run like he can?

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/920062/gyi0063761037.jpg

Dude is a BEAST!! :shocked:

-----

[HORSEPOWER 56]

How can a guy who looks like this run like he can?

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/920062/gyi0063761037.jpg

Dude is a BEAST!! :shocked:

-----

Did you see how fast Taylor Mays ran the 40 in last year? He was 11 pounds heavier and faster. Doesn't mean he's a great Safety.

[topscribe]

Did you see how fast Taylor Mays ran the 40 in last year? He was 11 pounds heavier and faster. Doesn't mean he's a great Safety.

Peterson has run a 4.29. Mays is faster than a 4.29? (Coach Scout (http://www.couchscout.com/sf.htm) has Mays at 4.42.)

Nonetheless, I am not trying to sell Peterson. I only posted the picture.

That is all.

-----

[SOCALORADO.]

Did you see how fast Taylor Mays ran the 40 in last year? He was 11 pounds heavier and faster. Doesn't mean he's a great Safety.

Dont keep makin sense man.
LaRon Landry and Reggie Nelson are gonna come lookin for ya!

[rcsodak]

Does a top cb give a DL more time to get to the qb, or does a top DL help a cb shutdown the qb?
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[rcsodak]

Might've got it backwards. When they decided I stunk up the joint at QB and
put me over at DE, the major technique back then was to gather up some
offensive linemen and throw them at the QB. None of the 1-gap or 2-, 3-, or
whatever-gap business. Just go get your nose bloodied, which I did very well --
get my nose bloodied, that is (not much else).

-----
No prob....not questioning your football IQ. Hell, up until a week ago, I thought a NT lined up on the nose of the football (C). ; )
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[dogfish]

Does a top cb give a DL more time to get to the qb, or does a top DL help a cb shutdown the qb?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

both, but the latter works a whole lot easier. . . all of your players in coverage have to win their individual battles to generate a coverage sack-- only one DL has to win his battle to generate a pressure sack or interception. . .

[arapaho2]

I can agree we need to upgrade at every position on defense. That being the the first order of business is the defensive line imho.



exactly...is CB the biggest need on our defense?...no

dline..in my opinion is the biggest pressing need to stop the down ward spiral our defense has been in

so list the biggest need..for me

DT....which means fairely or dareus withthe number 2
followed by DE
followed by MLB
followed by safety
then followewd by CB

[NightTerror218]

Does a top cb give a DL more time to get to the qb, or does a top DL help a cb shutdown the qb?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

That makes sense unless you are looking for the best player in the draft that is NFL ready....but I do agree with you. Fox might want to get Peterson and then sign 2 DL in the 2nd since there are a lot of them

[topscribe]

exactly...is CB the biggest need on our defense?...no

dline..in my opinion is the biggest pressing need to stop the down ward spiral our defense has been in

so list the biggest need..for me

DT....which means fairely or dareus withthe number 2
followed by DE
followed by MLB
followed by safety
then followewd by CB

I wouldn't necessarily argue with you, but I would place MLB before DE.

Nonetheless, Peterson looks like a phenom, doesn't he?

-----

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Really? What does the 2-2's add up to, pt wise? Im just curious if it wouldn't be an opportunity to get 2 REALLY good players, should the chance arise. Versus sitting back and HOPING a good DT falls to the 2nd.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Here you go, rc.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

According to the "chart" which isn't absolute, our 2 2nds are worth about 1000 points which equals the 16th overall pick. So we could move back up into the middle of the first round, theoretically, if we could find a partner.

In a DL deep draft like this one where some 1st round talent is bound to fall into the second round, I'd rather just stay put in the second and grab BPA at our picks.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Peterson has run a 4.29. Mays is faster than a 4.29? (Coach Scout (http://www.couchscout.com/sf.htm) has Mays at 4.42.)

Nonetheless, I am not trying to sell Peterson. I only posted the picture.

That is all.

-----

IIRC, Mays' hand timed unofficial time at the combine last year was sub 4.3. There was a huge discrepancy between the unofficial time, 4.28 I think, and the official of 4.4.

Everyone thought he might be able to break CJ2Ks record of 4.24.

[arapaho2]

I wouldn't necessarily argue with you, but I would place MLB before DE.

Nonetheless, Peterson looks like a phenom, doesn't he?

-----

and now imagine if shanny didnt wiff on moss

if mcd instead of takeing a rb that wasnt needed and wasting another 1st rd pick on smith had targeted raji and packaged a deal to move up

then imagine the impact peterson would have...but now we need dline

[topscribe]

and now imagine if shanny didnt wiff on moss

if mcd instead of takeing a rb that wasnt needed and wasting another 1st rd pick on smith had targeted raji and packaged a deal to move up

then imagine the impact peterson would have...but now we need dline

Except that we then probably wouldn't have a shot at Peterson.

Which would have been okay, too . . .

-----

[Ravage!!!]

I'd completely agree with you if both Fairley and Dareus weren't elite prospects and weren't supposed to be in the top 10 and taking them would be any sort of reach, but Fairley has been favored to go #1 overall since the NC game and has done nothing so far to diminish his value. The advantage is, both Fairley and Dareus are top 5 rated AND fill a huge need. It's not like Patrick Peterson is likely going to be that much better a CB than Fairley will be a DT such that we should take an area that, no matter what people think just isn't a need right now. It's about value. A CB has NEVER been drafted that high because the VALUE isn't there.

I agree with everything you said prior to this, and don't really disagree with this EXCEPT that I personally don't know if I believe that Fairley and Dareus are "elite" other than the fact they are at the top of this particular class.

I also completely agree with you on value and taking Peterson at #2 and why we won't. I've actually said the exact same thing many times. I do NOT believe we will take Peterson at #2, I just don't think it would be a horrendous pick if we did, then addressed the DL with the 2nd round. If there was a guy that was obviously as dominant as Suh was in this class, I would be head over heals anxious, bu the guys that are leading the pack this year at DT just don't bring that kind of excitement out of me.

That being said, its why I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a stud like Peterson, and addressing the DL in the 2 picks of the second round. I absolutely won't complain, one bit, if we take Fairly or Dareus with the #2 pick. I just don't think that its a "must" choice considering that its the #2 pick, and with that kind of selection you can't just purely make your choice solely on position of need.



IMO, it is a waste because we had the opportunity to address a NEED without reaching and blew it. If you don't think there's a HUGE difference between Fairley/Dareus and Bowers/Quinn and "the field", then I'll never convince you otherwise. Are they guaranteed? Of course not, but Peterson ain't no Champ or Primetime, either and could bust just as hard and just as fast. Just because typically CBs are a "safer" pick doesn't make them a "better" pick, not for us...

But that need can STILL be addressed. Its not like we only have one pick and these two guys are rated as a "once in a lifetime" kind of athlete.

When picking #2, you have to get the best player, and since we need every position on the field, taking the BEST PLAYER is what we need to do. That may not necessarily be one of the two top DTs this year. Picking SAFE when spending that kind of money, to me, is the smart choice. Go with the guy that will absolutely (obviously there are no guarantees to anyone) be the NFL starter 10 years down the road.


I agree that DT is a HUGE need. I just don't think we spend our first three picks on that one position, and don't think tht the ONLY way to improve the DL is to take DT at #2.

[rcsodak]

Maybe you and I watched a different game, but 2 of Ben's INTs and Mendenhall's fumble were directly from PRESSURE BY THE FRONT 7, not because the secondary made great plays.
Really? I saw cb's get the int's. And I also saw pitt start coming back in the 2nd half partly because of gb's depleted secondary.
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[Ravage!!!]

exactly...is CB the biggest need on our defense?...no

dline..in my opinion is the biggest pressing need to stop the down ward spiral our defense has been in

so list the biggest need..for me

DT....which means fairely or dareus withthe number 2
followed by DE
followed by MLB
followed by safety
then followewd by CB

I'd put MLB and Safety ahead of DE.

[rcsodak]

Or, was it because Pittsburgh finally started to commit to the running game? Hmmm... It would be interesting to look up the quarter by quarter stats on points vs rushing yards by quarter... :confused:
Yes, it would.
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[rcsodak]

both, but the latter works a whole lot easier. . . all of your players in coverage have to win their individual battles to generate a coverage sack-- only one DL has to win his battle to generate a pressure sack or interception. . .
Dog, if that were listed as a poll on here, how do you think it turns out?
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[rcsodak]

exactly...is CB the biggest need on our defense?...no

dline..in my opinion is the biggest pressing need to stop the down ward spiral our defense has been in

so list the biggest need..for me

DT....which means fairely or dareus withthe number 2
followed by DE
followed by MLB
followed by safety
then followewd by CB
No rb/te/ort?

AJHawk just got cut. Isn't he a mlb? He could fill a need, imo, since there really aren't any homerun mlb's in the draft.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I agree with everything you said prior to this, and don't really disagree with this EXCEPT that I personally don't know if I believe that Fairley and Dareus are "elite" other than the fact they are at the top of this particular class.

I also completely agree with you on value and taking Peterson at #2 and why we won't. I've actually said the exact same thing many times. I do NOT believe we will take Peterson at #2, I just don't think it would be a horrendous pick if we did, then addressed the DL with the 2nd round. If there was a guy that was obviously as dominant as Suh was in this class, I would be head over heals anxious, bu the guys that are leading the pack this year at DT just don't bring that kind of excitement out of me.

That being said, its why I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a stud like Peterson, and addressing the DL in the 2 picks of the second round. I absolutely won't complain, one bit, if we take Fairly or Dareus with the #2 pick. I just don't think that its a "must" choice considering that its the #2 pick, and with that kind of selection you can't just purely make your choice solely on position of need.




But that need can STILL be addressed. Its not like we only have one pick and these two guys are rated as a "once in a lifetime" kind of athlete.

When picking #2, you have to get the best player, and since we need every position on the field, taking the BEST PLAYER is what we need to do. That may not necessarily be one of the two top DTs this year. Picking SAFE when spending that kind of money, to me, is the smart choice. Go with the guy that will absolutely (obviously there are no guarantees to anyone) be the NFL starter 10 years down the road.


I agree that DT is a HUGE need. I just don't think we spend our first three picks on that one position, and don't think tht the ONLY way to improve the DL is to take DT at #2.

I feel you Rav, but if it was all about taking the best athlete or best player, why aren't we even discussing AJ Green? With D Thomas' Achilles, Royal's hip, and Brandon Lloyd in a contract year (could be a one year wonder, too) shouldn't Green be up there, too? Isn't he supposed to be another Megatron/Andre Johnson/Randy Moss caliber (he's not, I assure you, I've seen almost all of his games) "special" player?

It's no different than if there was a consensus top OT. We wouldn't be interested because we have Clady. We have Champ => we don't need Peterson, even if he is the most talented athlete in this draft.

[rcsodak]

Here you go, rc.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

According to the "chart" which isn't absolute, our 2 2nds are worth about 1000 points which equals the 16th overall pick. So we could move back up into the middle of the first round, theoretically, if we could find a partner.

In a DL deep draft like this one where some 1st round talent is bound to fall into the second round, I'd rather just stay put in the second and grab BPA at our picks.

Wow..higher than I thought. So nobody is up for the QUALITY OVER QUANTITY theory? Or how about the 36/3rd? Would that get them into the late 20's and STILL have a 2nd?
I bring these scenarios up only because xanders has been involved in draft day trades, and elway was around during shannys wild days. :shrugs: Just sayin it might not be out of the question.
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[NightTerror218]

No rb/te/ort?

AJHawk just got cut. Isn't he a mlb? He could fill a need, imo, since there really aren't any homerun mlb's in the draft.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

We still have Harris, dont need a ort yet....yes AJ Hawk is a MLB...orginally a WLB

[rcsodak]

IIRC, Mays' hand timed unofficial time at the combine last year was sub 4.3. There was a huge discrepancy between the unofficial time, 4.28 I think, and the official of 4.4.

Everyone thought he might be able to break CJ2Ks record of 4.24.
There was a cb that came damn close. Can't remember his name..small college. But deon was all giddy after seeing the kid come off the line.
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[Ravage!!!]

The example was to point out that secondary players can be found in later rounds, or undrafted, unlike most talented d-line players.
And PITs starting Center played a hell of a game. It is the other SB team, lets not sell them short.

And Pitss other hurt OL and their third string tackle. So the back-ups were pretty well handling the GB pass rush and giving Roth TONS of time.

But if you are looking for one game examples...

have you looked at where the DL was drafted for the Giants that beat the undefeated Patriots? A DL that wasn't stacked (at all ) with 1st round talent yet won the game against a heavily favored Patriots team. So, I think we can find examples that can show the same thing could be said for finding top talent at DL in later rounds.



Micheal Strahan: 2nd Round (33rd overall)

Justin Tuck: (who was part of the Al Smith trade to Denver had Al passed his physical) was drafted in the 3rd round. (74th overall)

Osi Umenyiora: 3rd Round (74th overall)

Robbins: 2nd round (55th overall)

Cofield: 4th round (124th overall)


Their LBs

Antonio Pierce: Undrafted

Kawika Mitchell: 2nd round (47th overall)


PITTSBURGH:

Keisel: 7th round

Hood: 1st (32 overall)

Hampton: 1st (19th overall)

Aaron Smith: 4th round

Eason: 4th round

Harrison - non-drafted

* Troy Polamalu - 1st round (16th overall)

(I put Polamalu on the list because it shows that the two highest picks used by Pittsburgh went to either the NT or the Safety)


So again. I don't think you HAVE to build your DL with top 1st round picks and although I completely agree that our DL is a top priority, I don't think the ONLY option we have to build our DL is to use the #2 pick on the DT when we can absolutely find top talent in later rounds.

[rcsodak]

And Pitss other hurt OL and their third string tackle. So the back-ups were pretty well handling the GB pass rush and giving Roth TONS of time.

But if you are looking for one game examples...

have you looked at where the DL was drafted for the Giants that beat the undefeated Patriots? A DL that wasn't stacked (at all ) with 1st round talent yet won the game against a heavily favored Patriots team. So, I think we can find examples that can show the same thing could be said for finding top talent at DL in later rounds.



Micheal Strahan: 2nd Round (33rd overall)

Justin Tuck: (who was part of the Al Smith trade to Denver had Al passed his physical) was drafted in the 3rd round. (74th overall)

Osi Umenyiora: 3rd Round (74th overall)

Robbins: 2nd round (55th overall)

Cofield: 4th round (124th overall)


Their LBs

Antonio Pierce: Undrafted

Kawika Mitchell: 2nd round (47th overall)


PITTSBURGH:

Keisel: 7th round

Hood: 1st (32 overall)

Hampton: 1st (19th overall)

Aaron Smith: 4th round

Eason: 4th round

Harrison - non-drafted

* Troy Polamalu - 1st round (16th overall)

(I put Polamalu on the list because it shows that the two highest picks used by Pittsburgh went to either the NT or the Safety)


So again. I don't think you HAVE to build your DL with top 1st round picks and although I completely agree that our DL is a top priority, I don't think the ONLY option we have to build our DL is to use the #2 pick on the DT when we can absolutely find top talent in later rounds.

Eason was a shanny pick, cut after 2-3yrs, iirc.
And taking certain players' draft spot doesn't perove anything, rav. TBrady-6th. TD-6th. RSmith-UDFA. So does that mean you can wait til sunday to grab them?
You need to grab what you need when you need them until your needs are met. THEN you can start drafting bpa's. If every year you draft bpa, and its the same position, say wr, sooner or later, you're gonna find you are the Detroit Lions.
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[Dzone]

a 4.3 forty at 220 pounds? Good lord!!!!!Thats hard to pass up with his ball skills...
Plus he has a manly haircut, not some goofy pigtail thing like laurence maroney

[dogfish]

(I put Polamalu on the list because it shows that the two highest picks used by Pittsburgh went to either the NT or the Safety)




and ommitted lawrence timmons (1st), james farrior (1st-- 8th overall by the Jets)) and lamarr woodley (2nd). . . ;)


which leaves pitt with a total of five out of their seven front seven defenders drafted in the top two rounds. . . having james harrison doesn't exactly make them a bunch of castoffs and late round stiffs in the front seven-- very poor choice if you were trying to provide an example of a top defense built around scrubs in the front seven. . .


;)

[Northman]

No one is saying that we don't need front line help..and you guys make it sound like if we get it this yr we will make the playoffs.

Emm, no. No one has said that so please keep that BS crap to yourself. What we have said is its time to focus on the real problem of the defense which is Dline.


So you would rather take a quality dlineman than an all pro cb?

I would rather take a all pro Dlineman than an all pro CB.


We still have free agency also to add a piece or two. Im all for taking the best defensive player period. So peterson wouldn't make the broncos better right away? If you think that he wouldn't ur nuts.

Emm, no. Try to stick with us here. We are saying having great DB's isnt going to solve the main issues on the Dline and it hasnt for...wait for it... A DECADE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, since i have your attention now (although i thought i made it pretty clear about 50,000 posts ago) the opportunity that Denver finally has at picking in the top 5 means they can get a difference maker on the Dline and not a "maybe" in the later rounds. Sure, any of the top three Dline guys could be busts but then again so could Peterson. But, having failed at actually producing a real playmaker on the Dline trying to guess with guys who arent projected to be playmakers means that Denver finally has a shot at a real guy which is the common sense move. Free agency can apply to anyone so yes you have a point there. But, we could easily say that about any player including DB.


Plus he add special ability to kick return game. Best defensive player available and to me its not even close peterson by a mile.

Thats your opinion as far as Peterson being the best defensive player in the draft and im cool with that. I think your insane but whatever it is what it is. As for his return abilities we have Royal and Thompson who can do that as well. Your not going to sell me on this idea that Denver should draft Peterson specifically for that. Especially after i watched Peterson get outplayed by other DB's in their bowl game this year and in the return game he was ho-hum. Color me unimpressed with a guy who was on a 8th ranked defense surrounded by talent who helped his stock go up.

If anything a guy like Prince should get more of a nod just because he was surrounded by less talent. I mean, if we are being honest here.

[TXBRONC]

Emm, no. No one has said that so please keep that BS crap to yourself. What we have said is its time to focus on the real problem of the defense which is Dline.



I would rather take a all pro Dlineman than an all pro CB.



Emm, no. Try to stick with us here. We are saying having great DB's isnt going to solve the main issues on the Dline and it hasnt for...wait for it... A DECADE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, since i have your attention now (although i thought i made it pretty clear about 50,000 posts ago) the opportunity that Denver finally has at picking in the top 5 means they can get a difference maker on the Dline and not a "maybe" in the later rounds. Sure, any of the top three Dline guys could be busts but then again so could Peterson. But, having failed at actually producing a real playmaker on the Dline trying to guess with guys who arent projected to be playmakers means that Denver finally has a shot at a real guy which is the common sense move. Free agency can apply to anyone so yes you have a point there. But, we could easily say that about any player including DB.



Thats your opinion as far as Peterson being the best defensive player in the draft and im cool with that. I think your insane but whatever it is what it is. As for his return abilities we have Royal and Thompson who can do that as well. Your not going to sell me on this idea that Denver should draft Peterson specifically for that. Especially after i watched Peterson get outplayed by other DB's in their bowl game this year and in the return game he was ho-hum. Color me unimpressed with a guy who was on a 8th ranked defense surrounded by talent who helped his stock go up.

If anything a guy like Prince should get more of a nod just because he was surrounded by less talent. I mean, if we are being honest here.

I just got watching NFLN's Combine Warp Up no one said he a can't miss prospect or even that he is the safest pick in the draft. They did say he is top 5 talent but they also said that the top three defensive linemen in this draft are worthy of being taken that high.

I'm not impressed that Peterson has return skills because Denver has return men coming out their ass. We have six guys who are capable of returning punts and or kicks. The two you mentioned (Royal and Thompson) and Vaughn, Decker, Thomas, and Cox .

[TXBRONC]

and ommitted lawrence timmons (1st), james farrior (1st-- 8th overall by the Jets)) and lamarr woodley (2nd). . . ;)


which leaves pitt with a total of five out of their seven front seven defenders drafted in the top two rounds. . . having james harrison doesn't exactly make them a bunch of castoffs and late round stiffs in the front seven-- very poor choice if you were trying to provide an example of a top defense built around scrubs in the front seven. . .


;)

If our two previous head coaches had taken the time really invest in the front seven of the defense we just might not be in the position that we find ourselves today.

[BeefStew25]

I love the kid. He is (as Nut would say) very articulate.

[BroncoStud]

I hope we do draft Peterson. He is the only sure thing on defense coming out this year...

[TXBRONC]

Family portrait there in your avatar Beef? :suspicious: