This is what WILL happen in the draft

[TiminatorTebow]

We are going to go with the best Defender at #2. We will draft a POUNDING type RB in the 3rd if not sooner. Orton will end up winning the QB job. As much as I love Tebow he will NOT get a fair shake because he's mcd's boy. The Broncos will return to a respectable 7-9 if there is a season next year. The defense and running game will be much improved and Elway will realize we need a QB to get to the next level after next year.

[Foochacho]

What a gay thread and isn't Orton McD's boy as well? Maybe more so since he was the starter.

[claymore]

If Orton wins the QB job... Then Tebow was a wasted pick. Then we need to look at positioning ourselves next year to get Luck.

[Shazam!]

Denver should trade down.

[OrangeHoof]

To some extent, I agree. Fox is a defense-and-running coach so we are going to need a workhorse running back and a defensive upgrade, both of which I think will be Fox's highest priorities. Orton is a caretaker QB whom Fox might trust more to run an offense while he makes transitions than he might Tebow. 7-9 sounds a bit optimistic but doable.

And, yes, to get to the next level, we will need to find someone at least as competent as Jake Delhomme was at his best. Hopefully, better.

Andrew Luck will likely be out of reach unless we trade up to get him which I would not recommend since we have so many other needs that should be addressed.

[broncobryce]

If Orton wins the QB job... Then Tebow was a wasted pick. Then we need to look at positioning ourselves next year to get Luck.

I guess Rodgers and Rivers were wasted picks too because they didn't win the starting job in their second season. Yes I know Favre and Brees are better than Orton, but my point is some QB's take longer than one season to be fully ready.
We all knew this when Tebow was drafted. We knew he might take a few seasons to be ready. That does not make it a wasted pick.

[Montana Battlin Bear]

Tebow will be starter in the first game of the season.

[claymore]

I guess Rodgers and Rivers were wasted picks too because they didn't win the starting job in their second season. Yes I know Favre and Brees are better than Orton, but my point is some QB's take longer than one season to be fully ready.
We all knew this when Tebow was drafted. We knew he might take a few seasons to be ready. That does not make it a wasted pick.

I think you have it backwards. Everyone Knew Rivers and Rodgers were going to sit.

When you are drafted and Orton is the starter, you are expected to beat him out.

Orton is a shit stain on the history of the NFL. Brees, Rodgers, Favre (hate him) are possible HOF/SB winning QB's.

[chazoe60]

I think you have it backwards. Everyone Knew Rivers and Rodgers were going to sit.

When you are drafted and Orton is the starter, you are expected to beat him out.

Orton is a shit stain on the history of the NFL. Brees, Rodgers, Favre (hate him) are possible HOF/SB winning QB's.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying here Clay, especially Orton being a shit stain :laugh:, but you have to remember that the vast majority of people felt Tebow was going to be at least a two year project. I believe even McDumbshitvondikhead looked at Tebow as a two year project. That is why he refused to put him in even when it was painfully obvious to the rest of the world that "Shit Stain" needed to sit. It's also the reason McDumbshitvondikhead gave "Shit Stain" a 1 year extension.

[TiminatorTebow]

Tebow will be starter in the first game of the season.

I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope you're right

[claymore]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying here Clay, especially Orton being a shit stain :laugh:, but you have to remember that the vast majority of people felt Tebow was going to be at least a two year project. I believe even McDumbshitvondikhead looked at Tebow as a two year project. That is why he refused to put him in even when it was painfully obvious to the rest of the world that "Shit Stain" needed to sit. It's also the reason McDumbshitvondikhead gave "Shit Stain" a 1 year extension.

I thought McD wanted him to beat out Orton In trainingcamp, but he couldnt and McD wa forced to give Orton the contract extension. ???

[Northman]

If Orton wins the QB job... Then Tebow was a wasted pick. Then we need to look at positioning ourselves next year to get Luck.

Definitely agree. At this point if Tebow cant win the job after sitting for a while, playing some live games, and then the offseason than he may never be ready and may never be a starting QB. Its not like he is pitted against Peyton Manning here.

[Northman]

but my point is some QB's take longer than one season to be fully ready.


Except for those guys it was never about not "being ready". It was because they sat behind QB's who were either future Hall of Famers or playing extremely well.

[Montana Battlin Bear]

I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope you're right

Me Too.

One thing that people are forgetting about this topic is that Fox loved Tebow in the draft. He has stated many times he would have taken him with their second pick last year but to his dismay he didn't fall that far

[broncobryce]

I think you have it backwards. Everyone Knew Rivers and Rodgers were going to sit.

When you are drafted and Orton is the starter, you are expected to beat him out.

Orton is a shit stain on the history of the NFL. Brees, Rodgers, Favre (hate him) are possible HOF/SB winning QB's.

Everyone knew Tebow was going to sit at least one season, maybe two. If you didn't, you must not ready any football news, ever.

[claymore]

Everyone knew Tebow was going to sit at least one season, maybe two. If you didn't, you must not ready any football news, ever.

If he cant beat Orton out, it was a wasted pick. Franchise QB's dont sit behind backup QB's for years.

[Lonestar]

Everyone knew Tebow was going to sit at least one season, maybe two. If you didn't, you must not ready any football news, ever.

Some folks are just oblivious to reality. If a #1 does not start immediately they are an automatic bust.

Regardless that every pundit said he would be a project of 2-3 years.

I guess that got condensed into 12 games a watching 4 games a playing.
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[claymore]

Some folks are just oblivious to reality. If a #1 does not start immediately they are an automatic bust.

Regardless that every pundit said he would be a project of 2-3 years.

I guess that got condensed into 12 games a watching 4 games a playing.
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I never said he was a bust. I said it was a wasted pick. If he cant beat out Orton, then he should have been taken in the 3rd round like everyone said he should.

[I Eat Staples]

I guess Rodgers and Rivers were wasted picks too because they didn't win the starting job in their second season. Yes I know Favre and Brees are better than Orton, but my point is some QB's take longer than one season to be fully ready.
We all knew this when Tebow was drafted. We knew he might take a few seasons to be ready. That does not make it a wasted pick.

Rodgers and Rivers probably could have played right away, they only sat because they had star QBs in front of them. And both of their teams ended up trading those star QBs because they believed in them so much.


Everyone knew Tebow was going to sit at least one season, maybe two. If you didn't, you must not ready any football news, ever.

And why is that? Because he doesn't know how to play QB in the NFL. If a player has to learn to play his own position, he shouldn't be a first round pick.

Tebow isn't a bust, he just should have never been drafted anywhere near the first round.

[NightTerror218]

I guess Rodgers and Rivers were wasted picks too because they didn't win the starting job in their second season. Yes I know Favre and Brees are better than Orton, but my point is some QB's take longer than one season to be fully ready.
We all knew this when Tebow was drafted. We knew he might take a few seasons to be ready. That does not make it a wasted pick.

Ok...but look who they were behind!!! The were behind 2 HOF QBs....Orton is not anywhere near in the ball park of Brees or Farve.

[NightTerror218]

I never said he was a bust. I said it was a wasted pick. If he cant beat out Orton, then he should have been taken in the 3rd round like everyone said he should.

There was no way he was going to make it to the 3rd round....many believe he would have been at top of 2nd if still available.

[vandammage13]

Definitely agree. At this point if Tebow cant win the job after sitting for a while, playing some live games, and then the offseason than he may never be ready and may never be a starting QB. Its not like he is pitted against Peyton Manning here.

There won't be an offseason, so this is going to make it even tougher for Tebow to get better this offseason (With no OTAs and most likely a limited training camp). This situation most certainly benefits Orton, due to his experience, so the odds are stacked against Tebow in this regard.

But if there is anyone who can beat the odds, it would be Tim.

[rcsodak]

I think you have it backwards. Everyone Knew Rivers and Rodgers were going to sit.

When you are drafted and Orton is the starter, you are expected to beat him out.

Orton is a shit stain on the history of the NFL. Brees, Rodgers, Favre (hate him) are possible HOF/SB winning QB's.

Are there 2 claymores on here?
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[BigSarge87]

Back to the OP...

It's going to be Von Miller. If they can trade down and get him they will, but if they can't, I still think they should take him. He's tearing up the combine today and his interview (I wish I had a link. Carol?) on NFLN really impressed me. I think he's as much of a lock to be a playmaker as anyone in the draft. If so, in two years when he's a probowler it won't matter if we reached for him a little in the draft.

Since the draft is deep in DL talent, I'm sold on taking Von at #2 and looking for DL help with ALL the other picks.

[Lonestar]

Ok...but look who they were behind!!! The were behind 2 HOF QBs....Orton is not anywhere near in the ball park of Brees or Farve.

Yep but no one said they might need 2-3 years before they were ready to play NFL style QB either.

Unless you missed all of that it is true NO ONE said he be ready in 2011. No one.
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[NightTerror218]

Back to the OP...

It's going to be Von Miller. If they can trade down and get him they will, but if they can't, I still think they should take him. He's tearing up the combine today and his interview (I wish I had a link. Carol?) on NFLN really impressed me. I think he's as much of a lock to be a playmaker as anyone in the draft. If so, in two years when he's a probowler it won't matter if we reached for him a little in the draft.

Since the draft is deep in DL talent, I'm sold on taking Von at #2 and looking for DL help with ALL the other picks.

The only way i would be happy with that is to trade down and get a 2nd rounder also to be able to get another DL. Since DL is very deep. But we need the instant impact to DL not the eventual impact. Why i dont think we should trade down.

[JSado]

Although we need to improve our defense, we really need to trade down and improve our O-line. A center like pouncer and guard like Moffit would be great additions. Maybe not the most glamourous picks but the ones that will make the biggest improvements. We couldnt move anyone last year! Without that Tebow or Orton dont have a chance!

[BigSarge87]

The only way i would be happy with that is to trade down and get a 2nd rounder also to be able to get another DL. Since DL is very deep. But we need the instant impact to DL not the eventual impact. Why i dont think we should trade down.

Originally I was very much against trading down (not that it's even possible). If there was a surefire DL in the draft like Suh was last year I would still have that opinion. I'm just thinking now that Fairley/Bowers have too many question marks and their stock is dropping a little because of it. Everyone seems to think Von Miller (why isn't it just Miller?) is going to be a stud. And that's what we need even more than DL help is an absolute bonafide stud on defense. I think there is a very small chance of regrets if we take Von. Even if we can't trade down for him.

[rcsodak]

Back to the OP...

It's going to be Von Miller. If they can trade down and get him they will, but if they can't, I still think they should take him. He's tearing up the combine today and his interview (I wish I had a link. Carol?) on NFLN really impressed me. I think he's as much of a lock to be a playmaker as anyone in the draft. If so, in two years when he's a probowler it won't matter if we reached for him a little in the draft.

Since the draft is deep in DL talent, I'm sold on taking Von at #2 and looking for DL help with ALL the other picks.

Well, reaching on TT wouldn't be the topic of discussion any longer. Wasting a #2 on an OLB, in a 43D would defi itely take the cake, imp.
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[rcsodak]

Az wants to be like pitt. They'll take miller. You build up your inside triangle on D, THEN move to the edges. If miller were a MLB, he'd be in the discussion, but STILL not as a #2. Imo
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[NightTerror218]

Not sure if anyone saw Fairely's actually height and weight....he is 6'3 291lbs and Dareus is 6'3 and 319lbs

Fairley is looking more like a DE then a tackle now with his "loss in weight' after be listed at 6'5 300lbs.....I am thinking more Dareus as #2 to get a very much needed DT

[BigSarge87]

Well, reaching on TT wouldn't be the topic of discussion any longer. Wasting a #2 on an OLB, in a 43D would defi itely take the cake, imp.
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I deserved that.

[BigSarge87]

Not sure if anyone saw Fairely's actually height and weight....he is 6'3 291lbs and Dareus is 6'3 and 319lbs

Fairley is looking more like a DE then a tackle now with his "loss in weight' after be listed at 6'5 300lbs.....I am thinking more Dareus as #2 to get a very much needed DT

I'm no longer sold on Fairley, but I would rather have a guy who's natural tendancy is to lose weight rather than gain weight. I would think a guy who has problems keeping his weight down would be more likely to have amibition issues. You never know, Fairley might end up being better at DE then DT. I'm still worried about his character concerns though.

Not saying Dareus has weight problems, just making a point about Fairley.

[NightTerror218]

I'm no longer sold on Fairley, but I would rather have a guy who's natural tendancy is to lose weight rather than gain weight. I would think a guy who has problems keeping his weight down would be more likely to have amibition issues. You never know, Fairley might end up being better at DE then DT. I'm still worried about his character concerns though.

Not saying Dareus has weight problems, just making a point about Fairley.


I think it is more that it was listed wrong more then it was weight loss. Because he doesn't just shrink 2 inches either.

[BigSarge87]

I think it is more that it was listed wrong more then it was weight loss. Because he doesn't just shrink 2 inches either.

Did someone not get the memo that they check those things at the Combine? Wow.

No doubt his stock is dropping, for a while there he was the undisputed #1. Now he's 3-5 in a lot of mocks. Hmmm.

[dogfish]

college programs very consistently lie about the height/weight of their players-- so do NFL clubs, for that matter. . .

[NightTerror218]

Did someone not get the memo that they check those things at the Combine? Wow.

No doubt his stock is dropping, for a while there he was the undisputed #1. Now he's 3-5 in a lot of mocks. Hmmm.


That is why I am liking Dareus, he is 28lbs heavier at same height and is suppose to have better hands and feet. :confused:

[BigSarge87]

college programs very consistently lie about the height/weight of their players-- so do NFL clubs, for that matter. . .

Maybe it's just a male thing. If my life ever depends on my wife accurately depicting 10" with her hands, I'm toast.

[Bullgator]

If Orton wins the QB job... Then Tebow was a wasted pick. Then we need to look at positioning ourselves next year to get Luck.

by how? losing even more games than we did this year? chances are Luck will never be a bronco and btw who the hell has already anointed him a HOF? he has had 1 good year ffs.

there goes espn making another batch of coolaid and the world goes glugglugglug down the hatch.

[Bullgator]

as a gator fan i kept a real good eye on Darius, he has stamina issues and takes some plays off, hes a meat wall and great run stuffer but for a consistant pass rusher we want fairly or da'quan. darius would only be in on certain downs.