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WhatEver!!!
09-30-2008, 11:35 AM
I found this article and thought it made allot of sense. If this was posted before sorry...


THE COMMON DENOMINATOR
During the Broncos constant struggles to generate a pass rush, one thing has remained a constant
By James Merilatt

The Broncos can’t generate a pass rush. Anyone watching the team’s defense haplessly attempt to corral the opposition’s quarterback on a weekly basis can attest to this fact. Whether playing a 4-3, a 3-4 or any other combination of defensive linemen and linebackers, Denver rarely gets near the other team’s passer.

The stats bear out this observation. Through four games this season, the Broncos have recorded a grand total of five sacks, putting them on pace for a measly 20 in 2008. That paltry total would have been good enough for 32nd – dead last – in the NFL a year ago.

Needless to say, that’s not going to get it done. If the Broncos hope to achieve anything this year, they’ll need a better effort from their defense than they’ve received through the first quarter of the season. And if that’s going to happen, Denver will need to generate a much better pass rush during the upcoming dozen games.

While the Broncos don’t figure to remain on a last-place pace, there isn’t much reason to believe they’ll see significant improvement. A year ago, Denver was in the bottom half of the NFL with a mere 33.5 sacks. This continued a tradition of dwindling numbers, a trend that has began in 2002.

In the six full seasons beginning with that campaign, the Broncos have averaged 35 sacks per year. In the half dozen before that date, they averaged 44.

During this downward spiral, Denver has certainly tried to mix things up. After Greg Robinson was let go as the team’s defensive coordinator, Mike Shanahan has tried Ray Rhodes, Larry Coyer, Jim Bates and now Bob Slowik – all to varying degrees of the same level of mediocrity. And the Broncos have certainly shuffled the deck on the personnel front, as well.

Since 2002, they’ve drafted 11 defensive linemen. Three more have been brought in as unrestricted free agents. Another seven have arrived via trade. And at least 13 more have been signed off the scrap heap. That’s a grand total of 34 d-linemen for those of you scoring at home.

That’s four different defensive coordinators, employing at least as many systems, and nearly three dozen different players, all in an effort to jump start a dormant pass rush. For the most part, it’s all gone for naught. New faces and schemes have had little impact, especially during the past three-plus seasons, when the Broncos have averaged less than two sacks per game.

If new coaches and players haven’t solved Denver’s riddle in the trenches, perhaps it’s time to begin searching for other answers. Maybe the answer is the guy hired to coach the Broncos defensive line.

Jacob Burney arrived in the Mile High City in 2002 after three seasons with the Carolina Panthers. He inherited a defensive line that had helped the Broncos record at least 40 sacks in five of the previous six seasons – a group led by All-Pro Trevor Pryce. During his six-plus years in Denver, the Broncos have been on a steady decline.

While not all of this slip can be blamed on Burney, he certainly bears a fair share of the responsibility. His defensive lines simply haven’t gotten it done.

Since Burney arrived in Denver, the Broncos have drafted Dorsett Davis and Monsanto Pope in 2002; Nick Eason, Bryant McNeal, Aaron Hunt and Clint Mitchell a year later; Elvis Dumervil in ’06; the trio of Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder and Marcus Thomas a year ago; and Carlton Powell this past April. With the exception of Dumervil, Burney hasn’t gotten anything out of this group. Not only did he fail to develop any of these 11 players into stars, he couldn’t pull even the slightest contribution out of most of them.

But it’s not just in the draft that the Broncos have searched for answers along the defensive line. They’ve looked under every rock imaginable.

Lional Dalton, Daryl Gardener and Marco Coleman were unrestricted free agents who didn’t pan out. Ellis Johnson, John Engelberger, Ebenezer Ekuban, Michael Myers, Gerard Warren, Jimmy Kennedy and Dewayne Robertson were all acquired via trade, with Ekuban being the only one to have contributed in any significant manner. Simeon Rice, Sam Adams, Amon Gordon, Alvin McKinley, Kenny Peterson, Josh Mallard, Kenard Lang, Demetrian Veal, Courtney Brown, Raylee Johnson, Mario Fatafehi and Darius Holland were brought in and given a chance; only Peterson remains on the roster.

That’s a lot of guys – with varying degrees of skills and experience – who have failed to blossom under Burney’s watch. Perhaps the coach has been dealt a hand consisting of 34 crappy cards. But doesn’t that seem unlikely? Doesn’t it stand to reason that a few diamonds in the rough were mixed in there somewhere?

Something tells me that if these same 34 players had arrived in Baltimore, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh or any other NFL city where they know how to get after the opposing team’s quarterback, they’d have done more than they have in Denver. Something tells me they would have been “coached up.” Instead, they’ve simply been a part of the revolving door along the defensive line for the Broncos.

Maybe it’s them and not Burney. But I’m reminded of the gal who has a different “boyfriend” every month, only to repeatedly discover that none of them are the “one.” At some point, it’s hard to ignore the common denominator. Eventually, it’s not them; it’s you.

The Broncos have tried draft picks, free agents and trade acquisitions. They’ve gone through different defensive coordinators and rolled out a variety of systems in an effort to generate a better pass rush. All to no avail. Perhaps it’s time to look at the one thing that hasn’t changed. Perhaps it’s time to ask whether or not Jacob Burney is getting the job done.

Lonestar
09-30-2008, 11:46 AM
I did not realize that bureny was the common denominator on this.. but it certainly is pointed in that direction after looking at the facts..

I had been advocating ion other threads that we need to hire the NYG DL coaches and someone else suggested we hire the guy that evaluates their DL talent before they get them..

Maybe all we need is a REAL DL coach..

SR
09-30-2008, 11:46 AM
Maybe Slowik's scheme is fine. MAYBE, now this might be a stretch for some, just maybe the players we have AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH.

Lonestar
09-30-2008, 11:51 AM
Maybe Slowik's scheme is fine. MAYBE, now this might be a stretch for some, just maybe the players we have AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH.

alot of MAYBEs in there.

This article makes more sense out of the deal than any other has.. sounds like bureny can't coach up folks that are not already super stars..

We have went through DLINE types like other folks change underwear.. just MAYBE he is the probelm.. I fail to beleive that there was not some talent in those 34 bodies he has touched..

Both will get the Axe by the EOS if huge improvements are not made..

NightTrainLayne
09-30-2008, 12:00 PM
I had thought to research this the other night, but before I got started I got distracted, and when I thought of it next i figured that surely with the changes in DC's we've had that the D-line coach would have changes as well.

That's what happens when you assume I guess.

Makes perfect sense to me. Players and talent level are important, but coaches make a huge impact as well. Something is not clicking, and the timing of this guy's appearance with the team and our downward spiral of D-line is too much of a coincidence to just ignore.

MOtorboat
09-30-2008, 12:19 PM
Shanahan needs to step away from his coaches. He needs to hire a guy and let him run the defense. That means, hiring the scouts, hiring the position coaches, calling the plays, teaching the scheme...I just don't think Mike can do that.

JR...this is one place you and I will agree on...it starts with Shanahan. We all know he's a brilliant offensive strategist. But this shows me that he's not hiring a defensive coordinator to control the defense, he's hiring defensive coordinators to control his defense.

Lonestar
09-30-2008, 03:34 PM
Shanahan needs to step away from his coaches. He needs to hire a guy and let him run the defense. That means, hiring the scouts, hiring the position coaches, calling the plays, teaching the scheme...I just don't think Mike can do that.

JR...this is one place you and I will agree on...it starts with Shanahan. We all know he's a brilliant offensive strategist. But this shows me that he's not hiring a defensive coordinator to control the defense, he's hiring defensive coordinators to control his defense.



Again I agree 100% on this, the guy is great at what he does, Offense and he now has ht toys to do great things.. BUT defenses is also important,, one would think being able to design a scheme to defeat any defense would also allow him to reverse engineer it to design a scheme to defeat any offense..

But so far he has not allowed anyone to do it.. Perhaps he is stretched to thin to do it or perhaps no great free thinkers will come to work for him unless they are uber young.

Most of the truly great defensive folks now see that coming to work here is a career killer..

Mikeys ego will not allow a great defensive mind on the staff IMHO. No one can compete with his face time..

LRtagger
09-30-2008, 03:36 PM
great article

ApaOps5
09-30-2008, 03:47 PM
A member over at the Mane who is a Defensive Genius and has ties to a past Denver coordinator pointed this out after the first game of the season. They have run every DC out of Denver but the DL coach stays. Its perplexing why he has kept his job.

shank
09-30-2008, 05:49 PM
the addition of bill johnson was a move in the right direction, but didn't change anything.

gobroncsnv
09-30-2008, 06:19 PM
This theory would click better with me if we had more than just Pryce move on to stardom elsewhere, and quite frankly, I attribute that to the talent surrounding him more than scheme. But you really can't point to those who, in recent years, have gone to other teams and flourished under better coaching. There are are a whole lot of Dlinemen in the league, but it's been a long while since we've had a really good unit. There are only so many great ones, but we can't get our hands on any (as much as olinemen can get their hands on our guys). Sorry, I can't hang too well with this one. We've long passed the point where our fix is coaching and positioning on the dline.
Thomas can improve with better coaching, but he's sure not commanding 2 blockers right now. I haven't heard Robertson's name called much this year. Elvis was described elsewhere on here as situational, and I do buy in on that some. Engleberger is not a passing down DE, EE is good against the run, and Crowder and Moss can't seem to practice their way into the lineup. Yes, some of our guys are young, so you can expect inconsistency, but the good young players should at least show some flashes, and we do need more than just the Dume-ster to show promise. So for me, talent is our question mark (still).

MOtorboat
09-30-2008, 06:26 PM
This theory would click better with me if we had more than just Pryce move on to stardom elsewhere, and quite frankly, I attribute that to the talent surrounding him more than scheme. But you really can't point to those who, in recent years, have gone to other teams and flourished under better coaching. There are are a whole lot of Dlinemen in the league, but it's been a long while since we've had a really good unit. There are only so many great ones, but we can't get our hands on any (as much as olinemen can get their hands on our guys). Sorry, I can't hang too well with this one. We've long passed the point where our fix is coaching and positioning on the dline.
Thomas can improve with better coaching, but he's sure not commanding 2 blockers right now. I haven't heard Robertson's name called much this year. Elvis was described elsewhere on here as situational, and I do buy in on that some. Engleberger is not a passing down DE, EE is good against the run, and Crowder and Moss can't seem to practice their way into the lineup. Yes, some of our guys are young, so you can expect inconsistency, but the good young players should at least show some flashes, and we do need more than just the Dume-ster to show promise. So for me, talent is our question mark (still).

That goes back to the staff, and ultimately the d-line coach, too, though. You need a good d-line coach to help communicate with your scouts exactly what type of defensive lineman you want. It's all connected. So I actually think your argument that there is a lack of talent goes right into that.

Now...it's not like in college where the d-line coach is usually the guy recruiting the d-lineman, but they have a lot of say as to who is drafted.

WARHORSE
09-30-2008, 06:43 PM
I did not realize that bureny was the common denominator on this.. but it certainly is pointed in that direction after looking at the facts..

I had been advocating ion other threads that we need to hire the NYG DL coaches and someone else suggested we hire the guy that evaluates their DL talent before they get them..

Maybe all we need is a REAL DL coach..

Surprise.:coffee:

MOtorboat
09-30-2008, 06:45 PM
Surprise.:coffee:

I hope you aren't denying that we have a problem along the defensive line...

MHCBill
09-30-2008, 06:51 PM
I found this article and thought it made allot of sense. If this was posted before sorry...


THE COMMON DENOMINATOR
During the Broncos constant struggles to generate a pass rush, one thing has remained a constant
By James Merilatt

The Broncos can’t generate a pass rush. Anyone watching the team’s defense haplessly attempt to corral the opposition’s quarterback on a weekly basis can attest to this fact. Whether playing a 4-3, a 3-4 or any other combination of defensive linemen and linebackers, Denver rarely gets near the other team’s passer.

The stats bear out this observation. Through four games this season, the Broncos have recorded a grand total of five sacks, putting them on pace for a measly 20 in 2008. That paltry total would have been good enough for 32nd – dead last – in the NFL a year ago.

Needless to say, that’s not going to get it done. If the Broncos hope to achieve anything this year, they’ll need a better effort from their defense than they’ve received through the first quarter of the season. And if that’s going to happen, Denver will need to generate a much better pass rush during the upcoming dozen games.

While the Broncos don’t figure to remain on a last-place pace, there isn’t much reason to believe they’ll see significant improvement. A year ago, Denver was in the bottom half of the NFL with a mere 33.5 sacks. This continued a tradition of dwindling numbers, a trend that has began in 2002.

In the six full seasons beginning with that campaign, the Broncos have averaged 35 sacks per year. In the half dozen before that date, they averaged 44.

During this downward spiral, Denver has certainly tried to mix things up. After Greg Robinson was let go as the team’s defensive coordinator, Mike Shanahan has tried Ray Rhodes, Larry Coyer, Jim Bates and now Bob Slowik – all to varying degrees of the same level of mediocrity. And the Broncos have certainly shuffled the deck on the personnel front, as well.

Since 2002, they’ve drafted 11 defensive linemen. Three more have been brought in as unrestricted free agents. Another seven have arrived via trade. And at least 13 more have been signed off the scrap heap. That’s a grand total of 34 d-linemen for those of you scoring at home.

That’s four different defensive coordinators, employing at least as many systems, and nearly three dozen different players, all in an effort to jump start a dormant pass rush. For the most part, it’s all gone for naught. New faces and schemes have had little impact, especially during the past three-plus seasons, when the Broncos have averaged less than two sacks per game.

If new coaches and players haven’t solved Denver’s riddle in the trenches, perhaps it’s time to begin searching for other answers. Maybe the answer is the guy hired to coach the Broncos defensive line.

Jacob Burney arrived in the Mile High City in 2002 after three seasons with the Carolina Panthers. He inherited a defensive line that had helped the Broncos record at least 40 sacks in five of the previous six seasons – a group led by All-Pro Trevor Pryce. During his six-plus years in Denver, the Broncos have been on a steady decline.

While not all of this slip can be blamed on Burney, he certainly bears a fair share of the responsibility. His defensive lines simply haven’t gotten it done.

Since Burney arrived in Denver, the Broncos have drafted Dorsett Davis and Monsanto Pope in 2002; Nick Eason, Bryant McNeal, Aaron Hunt and Clint Mitchell a year later; Elvis Dumervil in ’06; the trio of Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder and Marcus Thomas a year ago; and Carlton Powell this past April. With the exception of Dumervil, Burney hasn’t gotten anything out of this group. Not only did he fail to develop any of these 11 players into stars, he couldn’t pull even the slightest contribution out of most of them.

But it’s not just in the draft that the Broncos have searched for answers along the defensive line. They’ve looked under every rock imaginable.

Lional Dalton, Daryl Gardener and Marco Coleman were unrestricted free agents who didn’t pan out. Ellis Johnson, John Engelberger, Ebenezer Ekuban, Michael Myers, Gerard Warren, Jimmy Kennedy and Dewayne Robertson were all acquired via trade, with Ekuban being the only one to have contributed in any significant manner. Simeon Rice, Sam Adams, Amon Gordon, Alvin McKinley, Kenny Peterson, Josh Mallard, Kenard Lang, Demetrian Veal, Courtney Brown, Raylee Johnson, Mario Fatafehi and Darius Holland were brought in and given a chance; only Peterson remains on the roster.

That’s a lot of guys – with varying degrees of skills and experience – who have failed to blossom under Burney’s watch. Perhaps the coach has been dealt a hand consisting of 34 crappy cards. But doesn’t that seem unlikely? Doesn’t it stand to reason that a few diamonds in the rough were mixed in there somewhere?

Something tells me that if these same 34 players had arrived in Baltimore, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh or any other NFL city where they know how to get after the opposing team’s quarterback, they’d have done more than they have in Denver. Something tells me they would have been “coached up.” Instead, they’ve simply been a part of the revolving door along the defensive line for the Broncos.

Maybe it’s them and not Burney. But I’m reminded of the gal who has a different “boyfriend” every month, only to repeatedly discover that none of them are the “one.” At some point, it’s hard to ignore the common denominator. Eventually, it’s not them; it’s you.

The Broncos have tried draft picks, free agents and trade acquisitions. They’ve gone through different defensive coordinators and rolled out a variety of systems in an effort to generate a better pass rush. All to no avail. Perhaps it’s time to look at the one thing that hasn’t changed. Perhaps it’s time to ask whether or not Jacob Burney is getting the job done.I have cracked the code!!!

G is... James Merilatt

Lonestar
09-30-2008, 07:18 PM
I hope you aren't denying that we have a problem along the defensive line...


no one can deny that our problems on Defense go back AT least to the First Playoff blow out in 2003 I think it was to Manning when he ate our lunch all day due to at the time we thought lousy CB's not being able to cover his stable of WR's..

the next year we traded for Champ and found out the next play off game even the best CB in the league could not make a difference when Manning had all day to make decisions..

Yet instead of prioritizing DL in 2005 we went after three CB actually One KR and two CB only to find out the KR was a better CB than the other DAFTED.

only in 2007 have we made conscious (some say unconscious) effort to prioritize getting DL on this squad..

Now it seems that moss is a BUST and crowder whom got all the praise last year can't break the inactive squad each Sunday..

Only Thomas who was taken last seems to be contributing..

I'm beginning to believe it is more coaching and scheme than talent to be the issue since 2003.. ow that is not to say that having top 5 players each year would not help, but unless they get quality instruction they can never improve..


Wonder if Bates might have been the guy but mikey could not handle the competition..

Npba900
09-30-2008, 07:43 PM
Bowlen needs to step in and tell Shanahan that he's taking away the entire Defensive apparatus, philosophies, schemes, player personnel, from him; and just allow Shanahan to concentrate on what he knows best.....the Offensive side of the ball.

Denver's defense is such poor shape and disarray that we are talking a 2 or 3 year project to turn things around, and thats if Bowlen can find a top 10 or 5 Defensive coordinator or assistance in the league. But then again the top 10 or 5 Defensive coord. & and their assistants are probably all under contract!

Coach Shanahan is an Offensive Master mind and can spot/evaluate and draft the talent to execute his offense. Likewise, coach Shanahan needs to find and allow his equal on the Defensive side of the ball to come to Denver to right the ship.

Lonestar
09-30-2008, 07:47 PM
Bowlen needs to step in and tell Shanahan that he's taking away the entire Defensive apparatus, philosophies, schemes, player personnel, from him; and just allow Shanahan to concentrate on what he knows best.....the Offensive side of the ball.

Denver's defensive is such poor shape and disarray that we are talking a 2 or 3 year project to turn things around, and thats if Bowlen can find a top 10 or 5 Defensive coordinator or assistance in the league. But then again the top 10 or 5 Defensive coord. & and their assistants are probably all under contract!

Coach Shanahan is an Offensive Master mind and can spot/evaluate and draft the talent to execute his offense. Likewise, coach Shanahan needs to find and allow his equal on the Defensive side of the ball to come to Denver to right the ship.


you can offer an assistant a promotion and it is not tampering but it has to be done after the season..

We can offer a DC the position of assistant Head Coach.. and it is OK..

There are many ways to skin a cat.

Simple Jaded
09-30-2008, 07:56 PM
I could be wrong, but Burney coached Bertrand Berry and Reggie Hayward into to contracts they have never lived up to, and he also developed Mike Rucker in Carolina, if I'm not mistaken.

Maybe Burney is part of the problem, he probably is, but the DL hasn't been any better with Bill Johnson on board either, so maybe they are the least common denominator to crappy talent......

Shazam!
10-01-2008, 01:11 AM
GREAT article.

I cringed when I read all those players I remember so well. Maybe not the Coordinator after all...

I remember the Pass Rush Specialist Denver had in the 90s, I forgot his name... He was criticized by other teams for teaching illegal moves.

I always want Denver to get ex-Broncos for position coach... I wonder what Simon Fletcher is up to.

Lonestar
10-01-2008, 10:34 AM
GREAT article.

I cringed when I read all those players I remember so well. Maybe not the Coordinator after all...

I remember the Pass Rush Specialist Denver had in the 90s, I forgot his name... He was criticized by other teams for teaching illegal moves.

I always want Denver to get ex-Broncos for position coach... I wonder what Simon Fletcher is up to.


It is a shame that over the tenure of mikey we had had BUT three DLINE player worth a crap.. and of those three only two made a decent contribution for more than one year here..

Of those only two were drafted by him or his staff.. Lets not call dumerville one of them quite yet.. as this year for him has been a total bust..

Simple Jaded
10-05-2008, 03:35 PM
GREAT article.

I cringed when I read all those players I remember so well. Maybe not the Coordinator after all...

I remember the Pass Rush Specialist Denver had in the 90s, I forgot his name... He was criticized by other teams for teaching illegal moves.

I always want Denver to get ex-Broncos for position coach... I wonder what Simon Fletcher is up to.

John Teerlinck......

dogfish
10-05-2008, 06:37 PM
John Teerlinck......


ahh, the dirty SOB that coaches the colts D-line. . . .